Hi everyone. My name is Patrick kill and for
today's guest, I had Emilee wiersma on, she's building a
start-up in the sex tech industry and we go over all her
learnings in there. The platform that she's building
NY that industry in the first place, she's the CEO and
co-founder of confetti with a K. And I'll put all her links to a
socials in the description below.
Check her out. With that being said, enjoy the
episode if I work. And I don't have anyone around
Amy, that's a stop working. I can keep working for a long,
long time, and it's not healthy, I feel same.
So the issue with me is that if I relax I start to freak out so
relaxing for me is actually not relaxing.
Yeah, and I have three mentors at the moment.
That also helped me with, of course, you know the business
part, but they really stressed the fact that I need to take
care of myself as well. Yeah, so sometimes I just call
them And I'm upset about something or, you know, when
something goes wrong and then everything starts starts falling
down and you're like, what the hell am I doing?
Yeah, well, if I have a moment like that, I just call one of my
mentors and they would usually tell me m, just shut up.
Shut up your phone. Shut off your computer.
Nothing's going to happen. If you are not answering emails
within 24 hours, just go and have a walk.
Go to the gym, do something else.
Yes, but don't work for now so I'm happy that some people keep
me accountable, you know, and say you need to do something
about your mental health as well.
That's that's really cool that you have that like support
network in there. Yeah if you get to a point, we
have 33 mentors that have that level for you.
Oh just ask. Yeah, just ask.
Yes. So the first one I got his name
is called florists or scam and he's a part of the neighbors
clunk ports in the Netherlands. Yeah.
And it is a How do you say it? It's a group of people that quit
working or retired, but Florence rains Florida's, for instance is
a former director of in the liver.
Yeah. And very smart guy, you know
very good job and he helps me out usually with all the
contracts and if I have to have very hard conversations with
people's or Partners, he's the one who joins me.
Yeah. So, I'm very happy that I found
him. He's already been with me for
almost two years, I guess. And then I'm also every other
other month or so, I have a call with still scavenger flow, and
she's the Belgium, digital Champion.
So sort of the nail, accrues of Belgium.
That's why I always introduce her, okay?
And she helps me more with staying sane and how you grow a
business. How do you attract people to
work with? And that's really helpful.
Yeah, and then the third is somebody who used to do a lot
with startups here in the Netherlands, called news.
And he helps me with, how the hell do you start a company?
Because even though a lot is very straightforward, a lot is
actually not. Because if you've never done it
before, yeah, you really really don't know what you're doing and
it doesn't matter. But you just need people around
you to tell you, okay? Now you need to go left or right
or not do that or do that or go where the energy is instead of
fighting, you know, against yourself.
So without them things would be a whole lot different.
Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, I've always said I want
to start my own business. I don't, I don't know when the
time is right, but I like that you already have your network up
to a point where you have like mentorship and guidance
throughout that, right? And you can I think the best
part is those discussions, right?
You can take their advice and be like, well I thank you for your
voice. I'm going to do this but those
discussions in those insights and those perspectives their
experience is going to help you a lot along the way because
probably you're completely trailblazing when it comes to
your own personal experience. I don't know if this is the
first company you're building up, but if this is yes, going to
be a lot of new learnings in there.
Exactly. And the well, this is the first
official company. So I did something previous
before this but it was It was really funny.
It was a embroidery sets that you could buy, okay?
And you can create a little artwork that said Stronger by
battle, which is a little turd angst are cut or straight.
Yeah, it's that actually got that sentence from our Queen
after the war because it was so bad.
It'll to them. Yeah and I thought I just want
to create a product it was it wasn't about the embroidery or
about anything else, it was about.
Creating a product from A to Z and doing everything in between
find out. Hey, what is my strong suit?
What do I like to do? And I actually got into the
newspaper and that kind of stuff which is really funny because
the company was called bait that home to Eric.
Yeah, like the better hand job. So it was already in the stars
that I would do something in the industry that I'm in, at the
moment. Yeah.
That's also. I mean, I know a lot of people
that have died idea but to pick it up into actually do it.
That's a second. And like kind of scale that you
need to have as well. Otherwise you're never going to
make it right? Yeah and yeah well for me it was
I really hated working for a ball so it wasn't it was a
no-brainer like I had to do something for myself but the the
hard part was what are you going to do?
Yeah. So I've always had loads of
ideas, loads of ideas. Yeah, but never ever had.
Did I have an idea where I thought I need to do this.
I need to do this. This is going to end.
This is what I can do. And This is what I would like to
do because I can I learn something new every day which is
really nice. It's an industry that I like
plus it's in a growing industry so I can make money off of this,
you know? And that was the hard part,
finding the right idea that really resonated with me and,
you know, you need to, it's an investment, not only in money,
but also in time, especially with a two-sided market place.
It's not like you build a website and it works.
Yeah. So, The marketplace is usually
take for 25 years before they really take off.
How are you going to fund it? Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.
Can you walk me through initially?
Like how you find this thing? Are you found this thing?
What it is also, and I mean, you're in a niche that not a lot
of people are in. Yeah.
So let's kind of break the ice on that.
Yeah. So I'm in the sex toy industry.
Yeah, yeah. That's it.
There you go. How it started.
Well actually a couple of years ago.
I quit my job at Oracle And I started thinking, what is it
that I really want to do and it wasn't, you know, I was thinking
that say you're 80 80 years old? Yeah.
What are you going to tell people like I used to sell Cloud
Solutions, completely different super boring.
Right. So I thought okay that's that's
not it and even though working there was a very interesting
time and I learned a lot there and of course, you know, it's a
big company. So it's good to have on your
resume. I'm a but I thought what is it
that I really want to tell people about my life and about
working life because I like to work.
But what do you really want to do?
And then I read the biography of De Ojo death, which is the, the
owner of your opium, the most famous sex club in the
Netherlands. Yeah.
And what struck me was, even though that the stories were
about sex for me, it wasn't about sex for me.
It was about creating fantasies for people.
People coming to you and saying, Hey, I want to do this.
I want to experience that and making it a reality for them.
And I thought, wow, that is so cool and I'm a very open-minded
person with my Dutch upbringing and it's always been easy to
talk about these subjects for me.
So I thought I need to do something with this.
Yeah, so he started researching the sex industry.
What can I do a little turd? Um, and my initial idea was to
start a BDSM room by Nvidia, semeru middle toward home
because I was so stunned by the fact that people who want to do
something with Kink or with sex toys or with sex are they can
only go to places that are a bit dirty and a bit.
You know, it's if you if you think of BDSM or if you Google
it the first thing you find is a dungeon and it's red and it's
black and it's exactly what you think it is.
Yeah but in my opinion there's so much more in Tween, why is
nobody doing something with that?
Because the market is probably way bigger than just people who
want to go to those places. Yeah, so I already had a
contractor. I was talking to the city of
little turd, um, you need to go to the police.
I was talking to companies that work together with sex workers
in South and south of Holland. Yeah.
And I was almost there. The plan was there.
Everybody was rooting for me to start and then Corona hits.
Really. So what are you going to do?
You're not going to put all the money?
You have down. Yeah, you're done.
So that led to me researching the sex toy industry, and I
found out that this industry worldwide is unregulated.
Which means people or companies are allowed to sell sex toys
that are toxic for the body. Yeah and with that I mean it can
lead to UTIs. It can lead to yeast infections
you can lead to chemical burns. Or just an annoying it you know.
But how is it possible that we live in a world where you can
buy sex toys that are not good for your body or your health?
Yeah. Right.
That's insane. Yeah, I mean, were you aware of
this fact? No, I didn't know that it was
unregulated. I mean kind of my knowledge of
that industry is very limited in how its own but I would assume
that a lot of stuff should be tested because you're using on
your body, right? Yeah.
Just like moisturizer hair products or anything like that.
That is all FDA. Regulated.
So I would assume this is kind of the same but it's not.
It's not. So that's so I found out that
the sex toy industry is unregulated and started
researching who's doing something about this.
What what else is going on? And I was actually going through
the process of creating my own adult product.
But then I started researching Amazon, Etsy, wish, all the
marketplaces. Yeah.
And I found so many shitty and crappy products.
This, this is probably really unhealthy.
So I started ordering some and to be yeah, I didn't bring them
all but it is so weird to see everything that you can buy
online. Very funny.
But then I started talking to 40 plus sellers on Etsy to find
out. Hey howdy, why do you sell here?
Why do you sell body-safe, what makes your items body-safe?
Do you really create it by hand? And I found out that there's
just as the sex positive or sex toys are a lifestyle.
Now, for a lot of people and it's not that Niche, you know,
there are so many groups and people who talk about sex toys
on a daily basis and really value body safety.
So that combined, with all the complaints, the sellers
worldwide have over Etsy or about at sea, for instance, at
Sea and their censorship. They make money off of these
sellers, but all of a sudden from one day to the next day,
can just say, okay, you're not allowed to sell her anymore,
you're done, you're done. Yeah, they have all the power.
They have all the power and Etsy is not one to, you know, pick up
the phone and say, hey, but we can talk about it and you should
do this or that. So these companies for some,
it's their livelihood, and they're not able to make money
anymore, no pay their rents. So that's why I thought why not
do it by self and build a Marketplace for all these
sellers that are not happy. Because I actually found out
that there isn't a problem for these people.
So why not solve a problem for them?
Yeah. What is the reason why Etsy
would like take them offline? I'm not really sure because they
won't give one answer. Yeah.
And they're not really strict about it.
So, one day, they delete a lot. Some days.
Some people can go back and create new listings.
Some are completely banned. There's not one answer to that.
Yeah, that's he had an IPO and I think there's so many
stakeholders involved now and come on guys.
It's an American company. I mean which is weird because
they buy the most expertise they're the biggest Market
still. So yeah.
But I would assume that all those stakeholders like some
some were like okay we have to take this off.
We don't want to be associated with any of this.
Yeah. And if you go on the air to
community, which is really funny.
So if somebody if you go on Etsy And you type in unicorn, there
is a possibility that a unicorn dildo pops up.
Yeah. And if your kid is, you know,
sitting behind the computer and it's like, oh, that's a unicorn
and click solids, of course, you know, the algorithm changes or
your feet changes to because you're looking at that and
they're going to see more and they're there.
So many complaints from from from from very religious, people
who say we have never clicked on anything like that and we still
get to see all these Sex toys. Yeah, we are not having it and
Etsy is a dirty company or whatever.
It's like yes, somebody clicked on it.
Come on. Yeah.
Be honest with yourself. Yeah, exactly.
You mentioned a lot of because it is on regulator, right?
You don't as a supplier as a seller, you don't have to have
body Safe products in the first place.
It's cheaper. Not to do all the testing
initially, to put that safety on there.
Or of course, materials, like tpe or PVC are just T playing
that's cheaper. It's Jeepers.
That's the reason why they create sex toys from those
materials. So if you look at medical grade
silicone which is the standard on my website that the sellers
that's all my websites they create sex toys with medical
grade silicone. Yeah it's just it's so much more
expensive and especially for small companies.
It's really expensive to buy small amounts of silicone.
Yeah yeah. And then they also don't want to
buy silicone from China because I was in China, they don't give
you a certificate saying, hey, this is really silicone.
Medical-grade, you never really know what you're going to get.
So with your Marketplace, then I'm assuming you promised the
safety, right of the products that it is body-safe that none
of it is toxic. Yeah, so what we do at confetti
is that before is seller on boards or becomes a seller and
opens up shop. Yeah, we just have a call
usually at least an hour. I look at the Products that
they're selling, I ask them. Hey, what kind of materials are
made from? What do you consider body safety
because you don't want to give all the answers right away.
Yeah. And what has been very, very
important in the research that I do is all the communities that
are online, so, on this court. But also on Twitter, there are
so many people who are very, very keen on buddy, safety.
Yeah. All the research research has
already been done, you know? So It's really easy to find out
who's a body-safe seller and who's not by just going on the
internet and talking to people. And yeah.
So before seller comes on board and is allowed to create a shop,
we just discuss, what is body, safety?
What do you sell? And make sure that they fit our
profile. Yeah, I think that's awesome.
I love hearing how you kind of through research.
Figure it out. Okay, this is, this is a Real
problem in the market, right? And I was actually giving the
attention that it deserves because we're still talking
about people, right? Just as you have shampoos or
creams or whatever. All the regulation is in place
for that and everything is bonus.
If you don't even have to question it when you buy
something from a store, when you buy something online but for
these products specifically, it's odd to me that it is not
there. Yes.
And that was actually also my first experience with with a sex
toy without making this a raunchy story, right?
I got it from a friend and it was A rabbit jelly Rabbit,
vibrator and I opened it and it smells so bad.
It was like, what is this? I get a plastic sense for the
plastic surgeons. Yeah, so but again, it's sold in
Europe. Yeah, it's in a package.
Yeah, it's fine right here because it has a Cee Cee logo,
which of course is bullshit. But I thought where in Europe,
This is fine. Yeah, turned out, it's not fine
at all. The toy was made of tpe
sapporo's it Harbors bacteria and within eight months there,
so many bacteria in its it can lead to infections and psyche.
How come people don't know about this?
Yeah that's dangerous. Yeah that yeah you started with
this idea and you had this thought of okay I'm going to
make a marketplace right just like Amazon is or just like at
CES. Those are giants though.
Yeah. What is kind of the first step
in figuring out? How to build a Marketplace?
Because you need to be online, you need to be everywhere.
Where digital all those people not going to find you.
What was kind of the first steps that you took all the first
steps was finding out, how are we going to build this?
Yeah, I'm so I actually started out with working together with a
digital agency Which, of course, they told me we can build this.
We can build this. Yeah.
But it Marketplace and especially with all the
different variations we offer because that is important with
the sex toys that we sell and is actually unique selling points.
Yeah, you can create a sex toy according to your wants and
needs. So how big do you want it to be
How firm do you want it to be? What colors?
Do you want it to be? Yeah.
Do you want extra effects on it? So there are a lot of variations
that go in one listing or one product.
At that a customer can order. And in the beginning, of course,
everything was going great. The first three months and I saw
something and saw some, some, some things that they delivered
well on. But in the end I never got the a
fully working Marketplace. Yes.
So after about eight months and losing a lot of money, the
marketplace filled horribly and I was stuck with a pilot group
of ten Sellers from all over. Europe, that were dying to go to
to on board and start selling but I didn't have a Marketplace,
like shit. What do I do now, as I started
researching, how can I build a Marketplace as fast as possible
with only existing technology. Yeah and that's when I found my
new co-founder. Some there is a Shopify expert
and we said okay we're just going to try it with chopa Fi
slow cost. Let's try to go life as soon as
As possible. And we were able to do it within
three or four months. Okay?
And now the first 25 companies have onboard it within only four
months of being life. So yeah, that's really cool.
Yeah. But your initial thought was
like something custom, right? That's why you went to the
digital exactly. Because I've never built any
website before. Yeah.
And I also looked at of course other.
I also looked at Shopify back then but I actually I saved a
lot of money because I Always lived and died squatters.
So I and you know, working at Oracle I just saved all my money
invested everything. So I was like, okay have a good
budget. Let's just do it right from the
start, you know. Yeah.
And I got a little bit carried away with all you need
everything customers. Like yes, I want everything.
And what unique experience, exactly.
I just got too excited and so that is a mistake.
I will never make again. And to be honest, not having a
big budget anymore, is a Actually it's it's really nice
because there's so many options that are not an option anymore.
Yeah. So you need to do with what's
that hands? Are you limited?
Exactly. And taking decisions goes way
faster because it's like okay that looks lovely but we're not
going to be able to do it. Yeah, so we first need to do
this instant that. So actually even though that
I'll also money and of course you know it's not good for your
mental health. Yeah, if you worked for add
something for eight months, and nothing happens.
You're like yeah, but then Again, this is also a good
position to be at. I love that, I love that
perspective, right? I mean those you can call a
failure but a failure is a big word, right?
It's a learning and I think a lot of people face that a lot of
people when they initially start building a tech product and they
don't have any background in building a tech product in the
first place, right? They're going to work with the
budget they have and it can be big or it can be small but
they're going to make those decisions based on their gut
feeling. At that point in time.
You never gonna know if that if it's the right direction, right?
If it Was a different digital agency, maybe they would have
delivered that marketplace, right?
You have no clue but those are the decisions.
And those then also is the kind of experience in the perspective
that you've gained but I like that you're now playing around
with more established technology, right?
Starting small instead of completely custom, you can still
go custom down the road but initially we have to kind of
prove those assumptions that you have that this is a Marketplace
and that there is a kind of product Market fit there and
even though that I did a very thorough research, Search,
especially with the the sellers. What do you need?
How can, what do I need to do different for you to leave Etsy?
Yeah, and come solid. My, my markets.
That's a great question. Of course, but they had a lot of
ideas. Yeah.
And most of it was actually already within the existing
technology were using now so we didn't even offer the minimum of
the minimum viable product. Yeah.
We offered so much more turns outs 90 to 10 stuff, they're not
using okay. So what I learned is that you
can do a lot of research and you can build everything everybody
wants. Yeah.
But it doesn't like most people don't even know what they want.
Yeah, it's hard. It's an and I probably am guilty
of that myself as well, me too, but I was so surprised.
I did so much research. I did so many interviews.
Yeah. And I build everything.
And then we went life. Finally, in Psalm there, and I
were so happy and then Happens. Yeah, it's a quite but this is
what you wanted, right? What did I do wrong?
When it said, people don't know what they want.
So start small, add some at one feature.
Are you going to use it or not? No.
Okay. On to the next.
Yeah. So yeah, that's also a mistake.
I will make it. It's a, it's a learning and I
love that you're sharing these because when I'm going to start
my company because I think I still think I will, there will
be a lot of like, learnings I'm going to have to go through.
And I think the more people shared their own perspectives
and their own experience, it's going to help others kind of
pave their own path, right? And you're never gonna not make
any mistakes that is 100% never going to happen.
You're always going to make mistakes but the way you pick
back up and you continue I think that that shows your kind of
strength of character in that way as well.
Yeah, sometimes you just need to cry on the shower and sometimes
you just need to go for a beer and yell during a football game
and and other times you just just need to pick up and get
back to Yeah, I love hearing that when it comes to kind of
the whole build-up. So you had the initial eight
months with the digital agency and then another like three or
four months when it came to the, the protocol Shopify.
What was your role in there? Because I'm assuming, if you are
a sole founder, you have to do a lot of everything, right?
Talk to the sellers, figure out the product figure out what they
want and how this is going to make sense.
And how many people are, how many sellers you need in the
first place before? You can go live like a lot of
those thoughts. Probably go through your head.
Like, were you Kind of the sole person like, in charge of kind
of everything, did you build up a team?
How did you handle that? Yes.
Her some their joints confetti after eight months.
So and when I didn't have a Marketplace anymore and I had to
build a new Marketplace. Yeah but before that I only I
was working together with a blogger because you need
contents SEO strategies just important and it's hard so I can
do that alone because I'm not the best writer and but apart
from that I was doing everything from policies to to branding to
social media to creating videos because turns out video presence
is very important but people also want to see a face.
That was one of the things that I was really worried about
because I don't mind talking about sex or sex toys.
I'm a sex positive person but putting yourself out there, you
know, online saying, hey, alright.
And these are a lot of dildos. I'm the brands.
And it can also lead to some, you know.
Yeah annoying stuff or challenges or usually men
sending you a lot of oh yeah unwanted or unsolicited messages
so that was a big step for me. Am I going to do it or not?
How am I going to do it? Social media has been a bitch
because you just get kicked off of every platform.
Yeah and for instance with YouTube I got labeled as a naked
scammer. Okay.
Yeah. You were naked.
Yeah. The scammer butt.
Naked part was definitely not true.
No, but that is so weird because you're fighting these Tech
Giants. Yeah, but you're actually just
you want to tell people about how to safely use sex toys
without making it raunchy or porn.
Yeah, but then still you get kicked off.
So that is an issue with YouTube.
It's an issue with Tick-Tock, it's an issue with Instagram
less. S with Twitter because they
still accept porn paragraph. Very up were no real court on
there. We should see what happens.
You know, when you'll Muska continues to be the ball so
about Twitter. But so that was that is always
been a big challenge but also writing the policies.
I mean what are you going to allow in your website?
And what this ethical and what is not?
Yeah, and we also sell or sellers on the platform also
say, Erotic art. But when is it still arts?
And when is it not exactly. And I love think about that kind
of stuff. Yeah, a lot of I mean I can I
can assume that for the bigger tech companies, right?
It's easier for them to see a black and white, if it's
something even close to kind of sex and pornography and kind of
those Industries, then it's better if we ban it and it's
better if we don't allow him. But if you're trying to educate
people and be like, listen, first of all is unregulated.
So, whatever you might buy is unsafe for you.
How else are they going to get? That information that is
trustful, right? These are kind of the sources
that people go to social media is help people gain a lot of
knowledge. And if that educational part is
missing, then you people never going to know, like that's a
huge shame that through that and through that kind of
black-and-white thinking, you don't get a voice and you don't
get that education across either.
Yeah, exactly. But then again, there are so
many companies and initiatives all over the world and
especially run by women. I really want to do something
about this. So Just going to I went to
Berlin Berlin, this October, which was interesting because
I've never been before, but there was also a sex Tech
conference and you just meet Kindred Spirits who are all
facing the same challenges which was really nice.
Yeah but apart from that, going back to your question, I started
out with a pilot group of ten Sellers from all over Europe.
So that was one of the goals I had when I I wanted to call life
before we went live and I also researched sex, toy collectors
worldwide. That's the thing.
Yeah. Okay, thanks.
There are people who have cabinets full in their house.
Yeah, with sex toys, interesting and fantasy sex toys.
So I found out that there are so many kings, we don't even know
about it. Can imagine like, X Ophelia, so
wanting to be romantic with extraterrestrial beings.
Yeah. And what I also found out during
the research with the sex toy collectors, is that the lgbtq
community is really rising and is really important within the
sex toy industry. Yeah.
Because they are not having all the phallic and all the
old-school dildos anymore, they require different toys that are
just differently designed and more creative.
So, that is something that I found out as well.
But yeah, I was I was everywhere.
That's really cool. Yeah, I would imagine that would
be the case but probably like the energy in the motivation is
that you're building towards like a vision that you have,
right. And you're tailoring towards
people that have never actually been tailored to like even the
lgbtq community. Plus this will be closed in
there as well. Yeah, that's a community that's
more up and coming and has a stronger voice now, but it's
never been tested to extend this industry and other Industries.
That's the voice that they have. And it's a That it's not
happening but it will never happen if people like you don't
stand up and do something about it.
So I think that's really admirable.
I think it's really cool. Yeah.
And I get to look at a lot of nice images all day every day.
So at least, you know. Yeah.
Even though you know, it's still a job.
I still need to Crunch the numbers.
I still need to do the needy and greedy which is it's just a
business but then again there's always something fun to watch
him my screens. So I can imagine I mean, you
mentioned, one of the challenges being like, Marketing presence,
I guess on socials. But that is where people like, a
lot of people will find you, right?
Have you done anything else to allow people to find you?
That is not on socials because it is such a hassle to go on
there. Yeah, so I was a bit naive and
when the marketplace won't lie for the second version?
Yeah, with thinking okay I build something it is working Supply
and demands can come together and you know, transaction as
possible. Yeah.
What Was necessary a lot. And then we need to find you.
Exactly. And then I started reading more
about how do you, how do you scale a company?
Because I was so focused on getting a product on the market.
Yeah, but then, you know, then the real work begins.
So what really struck struck me, was the sentence you need to do
stuff that doesn't scale before you can scale and that is
something that I've been thinking about a lot.
So what is it? Do I need to do Do sex toy
parties but then in the you know, the the Tupperware parties
within with sex toys. Yeah, to try to educate people
but also entertain a little bit, right?
Because it needs to be fun. So maybe that's one thing I need
to do. Yeah, one thing that I brought
home from Berlin is the idea of creating a little handmade
Market because people want to support small businesses, and
what we actually found out over the last couple of months, is
that Even though body safety. If people hear about it, they
think. Wow.
I didn't know that that's important.
Yeah. Are they really going to buy it?
Yeah, not so much. That's how important.
Yeah. Maybe we should focus a little
bit more on the handmade Parts on these are small companies
that you're supporting. This is a unique product ID.
You can customize. Yeah.
Isn't that more fun? Oh, and by the way it's body
safe. So you don't have to worry about
anything. Yeah, so maybe that's the
approach we need to go with. So I'm trying to to do more
stuff like this pulled calls but also go offline and really talk
to our different audiences to find out what they want and what
they need. And the only thing they've they
well the main thing they told me so far is that we want more
products, we went to see everything that's there.
So yeah, that's crazy. I love the phrase before you can
scale. You have to do stuff that
doesn't scale. Yeah, I mean Airbnb.
I think they sold cereal boxes. Yeah.
For a while, the thing. Yeah.
Okay. I wouldn't imagine that.
Yeah, that's yeah, but but learning about their story was
like, okay, so I can just do stuff.
That might be not might not be very relevant or might cost me a
little bit over my budget. Yeah.
But sometimes you just need to snap out of it as well because
it's just me and some they're behind a laptop or, you know,
trying to convince people, please come to our website.
But it's that story really Taught me that sometimes you can
just take a step back to something really different and
probably it's going to eat. You're going to end up with a
new idea. Yeah.
Well with with new with a new vision or something.
So yeah. I like going to like conferences
within the same Niche and listening to other people are
doing right now exactly in there lies a lot of inspiration.
I feel like yeah and also if you look at Berlin there are so many
sex positive events and I was I was stunned by how many people
on Monday night would go to an event Colts smut slam, which
were sponsoring now by the way and it's an it's an event where
you can tell dirty stories. Okay.
And I was like who's going to go there on a Monday to tell a
dirty story? Well, I mean, of course and it
was so funny because at first I was like, everybody here is
probably really rehearsed their story and he's really good at
it. Yeah.
And then I watched the first person get up on stage and I was
like Yeah yeah I can do this so I added my name to the bucket
lady. No way thinking.
They're not going to pick me right?
Yeah yeah. Of course within a minute it was
like Emily. Please get on stage.
There we go. Yeah.
But I won which was nice and then ended up sponsoring the
event because they do it worldwide.
But just to see that there is a need for sex positive events and
it doesn't have to be about the education part per se, but just
about having a safe space to talk about this kind.
These things. Yeah so that might be an
opportunity as well to go offline and organize more about
sex positivity. Yeah.
I think that's really cool. I mean figuring out what works,
what doesn't work? What's your strongest USB?
What do people like really grab attention to?
Yeah, plus all the other benefits that you have, right,
as a Marketplace or kind of the values that you have in there.
I think that's very important, kind of figuring out things now
that you've been live. Like, is that like the strongest
Focus point that you have now? Now, or is it still like finding
more Sellers and kind of growing the product Suite that you have?
Well, my focus is so I like sales, I like going after after
companies and getting them on boards.
Yeah. But I'm very happy that Soldier
has agreed to become my co-founder now because he does
the website, he does to take Parts you nosy Commerce.
So I can focus on sales, attracting more sellers, but
also it gives me the opportunity to experiment more with What are
we going to do with this? What are we going to do with
this? How did you find something?
Because we've named them as your co-founder.
But that means, I mean, I think when you started, he wasn't in
the picture. You mentioned.
He's only been in the picture for like three or four months.
Yeah, was he threw out your own network?
Or how did you guys meet? Yeah, it via my network.
So there was a I used to have an office in little turd.
Mm. Yeah.
Me cry a lot and I talked to a girl there and she said you need
to talk to a friend of mine because you're stuck, you you
need to build a new website. You've run out of budgets, what
are you going to do? And I was like, I don't know,
call him and he he gave Saunders num number.
To me saying he can help you build something really fast and
I was like this is it this is it I'm not even going to you know
look for it there, this is it and we just hit it off.
I don't know. It's just easy to work with him
and finding a co-founder was Yeah, what should I say about
this? So I put up a, an ad for an ads
online on LinkedIn saying I'm searching for a co-founder of be
aware, you know, it's in the sex tech domain.
Yeah. Is it rebuilding the marketplace
just be aware that it is about sex toys, but it's still a tech
company and there were only men. Yeah, it's like more than
hundred, guys. Mainly from India and Pakistan.
Who reacted to, you know, my job at.
Yeah, it's home. How the hell am I going to find
a co-founder? You know, because this is not
it. Yeah.
And then somebody told me just go where the energy is, yeah,
who do you like to work with? And I was so focused on.
Okay, somebody needs to be very senior and has done everything
already. It doesn't matter who do you
like working together with and it was, it was a no-brainer.
It was like, yes, on there. Okay.
Yeah, because you also wanted someone that would be like
physically and Holland like working closely with you or was
it kind of I prefer that? Yeah, because I'd like to look
each other in the eye and have meetings from time to time face
to face. It wasn't a requirement but it
makes and I think, you know, talking in English I'm used to
doing business in English but still there's a lot in language,
a lot of nuances and you are starting a company together and
he is, you know, going to get equity in whatever.
So it is important that you really understand each other.
So I prefer somebody to be at least in the same country as I
am. Yeah, yeah.
I mean everyone has their preferences, right?
But when you're starting something from scratch, I think
it's important also to build up that relationship and that is
just easier to You when you can be in a physical space with each
other. Exactly.
But no one besides that, it was
also important to after so many months of working at this alone
actually, as a solo female founder.
It was just important to get somebody on board because
actually also with investor meetings, people have literally
said to me, you need to have a guy, you know sitting next to
you at the table. Why?
Yeah. So I asked him What does this
guy need to do? You know, this is what job does
he need to have within confetti. And they told me, it doesn't
really matter as long as you have a guy sitting next to you,
okay? Okay.
But now I have a guy sitting next to me, you know, problem
things. So check that box.
Exactly. So I can get really mad about At
this, this is still a reality that this still happens.
Yeah, but I mean come on I also want to play the game, you know.
So now I have some there. Yeah, it's sad that it's a thing
and you can get a really angry about it and try and change that
industry. But that would be a full-time
job then I feel like and besides that, do they need me or do I
need them? Exactly.
Yeah, that's good. Have you had another like tryout
it then because I'm assuming you went at it alone initially as a
soul. Female founder and you got that
as feedback. Have you tried like a second
round with sonar next? You not yet, because we're first
doing some goal setting for 2023.
Yeah. Trying to see what we can do
ourselves and really get some more interesting Data before we,
you know, sit at that table again and talk about Investors.
Because I don't think it's necessary at this moment
because, because we are using existing technology costs are
actually pretty low. Yeah.
And there's so much You can do yourself and because we can
divide the work now, it's not, you know?
Yeah, I think we can, we can we can make something of it
ourselves before we start talking about giving away more
Equity. Yeah.
That makes a lot of sense. I mean, you've had so many
learnings throughout kind of your journey.
It's kind of, its really impressive first and foremost,
but I'm really thankful that you're also sharing that because
the way you go about it, right? Some people can really just
dwell into that and be like no, no, no, that that never
happened. Like, I didn't feel there, but I
think Like, again, a strength of character when you can say,
okay, these things happen and I learned from it, right?
And yes, they did like bring me down, probably but again, how
you pick it up and move forward is very important and now you've
learned that, okay, I'm going to first do these things.
I'm going to gain more data before we actually have another
go at it and actually right now we're kind of good so we don't
need to have a go at it. I think that's really cool.
Yeah. Yeah.
And also I mean, if you look at what's happening in the market,
if you look at what's happening at Etsy or probably heading for
Recession. More people are going to want to
do or have a side hustle. Yep.
Creating sex toys is a side hustle.
So, I mean it's going to be very interesting times and I'm still
sitting at home with the heater on.
I still have food. I mean, I'm not so good at,
yeah, I can imagine, it's a bit less than when I used to work
for Oracle, but that's okay. Well, Matt is that you happy,
right? And happy year.
I'm happier. Yeah.
Exactly how much did the dynamic change now that you have some
the next two years, kind of a co-founder because initially, it
was you, you're the founder all the decision making but also all
the responsibility all the accountability right which is
which is fine because it's you but now that you have some there
and I don't know if you're going to Branch out and kind of create
a team around YouTube that's going to differ.
I think it Dynamic. Yeah, so the thing is I'm used
to taking decisions myself and I like to take decisions really
fast. But if you want to grow your
company, you really cannot do it alone.
So I never envisioned myself working at this for years by
myself and doing everything alone.
So we are also talking about a possible rebranding because I
think it is important for solar to also feel that the company is
his. Yeah.
So if we do a rebranding together, which, of course,
naming the company was, I Gone for that name.
I tested it, everybody liked it but nobody's really able to to
remember it, you know, or how to type it.
So of course it's not working so we need to change it.
Anyways. I'm not saying we're going to do
it within a couple of weeks or within a couple of months or
whatever but we're talking about it.
So I think that I told him if we do a rebounding, I would love
for you to be a part of it because it will be more your
company as well will feel more like your company.
Yeah, and I think if you're good friends, You can you can also do
business with each other and just be honest with each other,
but there are some behaviors. I think I need to unlearn but
we'll see how it goes. You know, we just started this
this adventure together. Yeah.
And I don't want to do it alone and I trust him.
And we'll see what happens. Yeah, I think that's really
cool. Is it some I'm saying this in
the kind of the perspective of the podcast because this is
going to be a episode. Only 86, something like that.
And I've also had chats with people that say okay you're
doing a lot of work and the work would be less if you find like a
co-host or people that can help you with this.
But I'm like, okay I've built this from the ground up like
finding a co-host like this late in the game.
I don't know if it's going to add value to the show and it
might reduce my workload. But yet, then it's no longer.
Longer mind than it's from me and someone else because they're
gonna be the co-host. Yeah, it's kind of comparable to
finding a co-founder like, did you struggle with giving that
part of the company away or was going to remind say in there?
What is it company? Yeah, if think for you this,
this is more of a creative Outlets that has really your
stamp on it in your personality, for me.
Confetti is a Marketplace that has his own text number.
Yeah, and that's that's what it is.
Sometimes you need to take the emotion out of it.
And if somebody tells me, yeah, I hate the colors that you use
on the website. Well, what would you prefer?
Yeah, I don't care as long as we make money.
Yeah, you know, and as long as the sellers that are on the
platform or happy as long as people are buying and they come
back and buy more. Yeah, and in the end, I hope to
make an impact on this industry and does it matter?
How much Equity I have in my company.
I hope it's going to be you know, enough to To make a
living. But does it really matter?
You know, it doesn't. Yeah, that's really cool.
Yeah, that's amazing. One of the thoughts I still had
is going to a final thought is whenever I Envision someone
starting a company, right? Being very close to your
customers and you can have to because you have the selling
side in the Next Room, right side is most important, right?
Figuring out what they actually need.
Not what they're telling you they need because they're going
to tell you a whole slew but what they actually need and
implementing that in accommodating for that is
probably one of your Biggest factors in kind of success in
there. How do you, or how you gain that
feedback in the first place? And then how do you pick out
kind of what to implement and how to accommodate for that?
Well, there are two sides to this because it's a two-sided
Market Place. Of course, we have the sellers
that create the listings and have their own companies and
sell the items on the website and then we have the end users.
So there are two different different groups to to
reconsider. Yeah.
For the sellers. So what was the question again?
Can we go back? How do you get the feedback of
what they actually want, like, feature wise or accommodation
wise? Like why they do?
They want your platform? How do you listen to them?
Getting that feedback? Yeah.
So then how do you decide what to implement every time I start
doing business with somebody, I tell them.
I'm Dutch. Hmm, But I'm really touch.
What does that mean? You can tell me anything.
I can always give your opinion and it doesn't matter what you
say to me if you hate it. It tell me you hate it.
Yeah. But tell me what you want the
honest that be honest. No, but really be honest to me.
I can handle it. You know, I'm not going to cry.
Tell me everything and I'd use you can lead to a lot of emails
of people complaining about a lot of stuff, which is fine, you
know? Because again, it's not
personal. Yeah, that means they care.
Yeah. So tell me, tell me whatever you
like, or why are you not onboarding?
What is it? What is what is holding you
back? Or is it something that we can
do? And what I notice is that So, as
long as you keep talking to your customers and have it, I hope
that people like the fact that they can be really honest with
me. Yeah, yeah.
I would like that. Yeah.
I mean, I also do. Yeah.
So, that's what I do with the, with the sellers, and there are
always Early users that are very involved and what I noticed is
that a lot of the sellers that create the sex toys are also in
it. Yeah.
So sometimes they even know more about the stuff that we're
building and we do or that I do. So it's like, okay, yes.
I can only listen to you and I want to hear everything that you
have to say. And it's about not only giving
them the feeling, but also showing them that At what they
say in the feedback they give us.
We really do something with it. Yeah.
And that is something that I get really positive feedback about
because they just say if we call at see if we call Amazon know it
he's picking up the phone. Yeah, and at least I'm trying
exact. I'm still fucking up, but it's
right. She's picking up the phone and
she's so young to us and we know her and she's trying and
sometimes, you know, it's, it's not working or features not
working but we know she's trying it.
Exactly so that works. And with the With the end users
is actually really easy. I just go on Twitter, talk to
people and and call with them for hours.
Sometimes people tell you everything because if they are
passionate about something or it's their hobby, or they
collect something and you love to talk to stuff that you're
passionate about, right? Yeah, yeah.
So just get on the call. Ask people, do you want to tell
me more about, you know, collecting sex toys and they do
and you talked for two hours and you understand more about About
what's going on. Yeah, that's incredible.
I would have expected some kind of complicated thing with, like,
surveys and like data. And, but it, it doesn't have to
be complex right? Listening to these people.
It's their passion from the consumer side and sellers, just
want to make a living. And I have to have a reason why
they want to on board, right? And if there's any issues that
are going to voice their opinion, because you, you've
allowed that safe space and that Honesty in there.
I think that's really cool. Yeah, you've kind of simplified
it for now. I think also the scale of things
allows you to do so Exactly. I still have the time to Paul
everybody's like you, like I'll get on a video call right now
and of course, you know sometimes I'll pretend I'm very
busy and you know, make time for you but so yeah, sometimes I
just have time but that's okay. But no.
And also with talking to the end users made me realize that sex
is not a niche. Yeah.
And sex toys are not a taboo so we should stop calling it.
Exactly. Because it's not.
Yeah. Is that kind of a final Vision
than For the company like what is the end goal of the company?
Is it to make it a educate? People more to allow for that
safe space online somewhere be the marketplace for that.
Become the biggest sex-positive Marketplace in the world.
Yeah, that's it. And to be honest, you know, it's
starting out now as a Marketplace, a two-sided Market
Place, who knows what's going to happen within five years, you
know? It depends on what the people
want and what we can build and how fast we can go.
But we'll see what happens. And so, you know, maybe I'll
maybe we need to incorporate more video on the website
because if YouTube keeps kicking us up out, what are you going to
do? You know, video content is still
very important. So as we strong, I don't know
what happens. Well, we'll see within two
years. Yeah, I mean, you've already
showed that due to the whole covid experience, you can pivot,
right? You started with an idea and
then you would like all share, go it happen.
You could have, let that brought you down, but you figured out
how to Pivot and have this. Thing now and it can evolve them
five years down the line as well.
Yeah. Which you've shown also, I think
that's pretty cool cool. I've Loved learning about kind
of your history and how you got to this point, all the learnings
and all the experiences along the way, is there anything you
still want to share with our audience before we leave off
visit confetti dot EU. If you want to see stuff, you
have never seen before. And I promise you, you've never
seen it before. That's awesome.
I'm going to put all Emily's links in socials in the
description below and believe you.
Ah, that's confetti is going to be there as well.
Check that out. If you're interested, let us
know what you thought of this episode and we'll see you on the
next one. Thank you for listening.