Hi everyone, My name is Patrick Akil and joining me today is
Femco Cornetasa, Chief copilot over at Vortel, Microsoft MVP
and Real Community Builder. Our topic for the day is AI
copilot and enhancing productivity.
And I'm convinced we're all going to get AI superpowers.
It's just a matter of when. What it's going to look like, I
have no clue, but that's exactly what we discussed this episode.
So enjoy. I think a lot of people wants to
have like agents and want to start somewhere.
You can start small, you can make it bigger in a time, but
they say it's like no codes. So everyone can start really
easy, just like builds, like a document library and put an
agent on it and finding out how you can use it and make it
better. Like I think you can do that
like in a few minutes. But when you really want to go
in deeper processes, it's more difficult of course.
And that's another way. But I think a lot of people when
and that's what people were searching for at at this moment
is what can I do actually? And are there some good
practices already or what did other people already?
I saw some some article this week in in the new pen sedan and
they all say saying like, OK, the agent is going to get our
job and going to get our work done in the upcoming time and
everyone wants to start with it. Yeah, I don't see that everyone
already starting. I think people start really
small starting for example, with MG5 copilot, learning how to
prompt, learning how to use and then start as well with some
really great processes where they can put agents in And yeah,
after that they make it way bigger.
So it's good to have like a road map and thinking about OK, what
kind of use cases are the the best one?
And of course a lot of people think by the self I going to use
this and I going to build this, but it's really good to think
about the position of the company.
So what are we want to achieve with each other?
What are our problems? Is it like we, we cannot have
enough new people or we want to do it with lower cost or we want
to be a better and funnier company?
I don't know. You can, you can think about a
lot of things and then when you know what are the purpose of
this company, then you can think about, OK, why are we kind of
going to use AI? In what kind of way?
So I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that companies
make is don't put it on the C level agenda.
And I think that's one of the things that you probably really
need to do understand why are we doing this?
Because 17817 eight of the percent of the people in
companies already using something like an AI tool, but
we don't know. So all the, and that's from the
work trend index from Microsoft from last year.
Some, some, some data. But yeah, I think it's, it's
really, yeah, I, I think it's really needed to be on C level,
understanding what it can and knowing what the problems or the
things that we want to achieve with the company.
And then say, OK, we're going to make a road map and how are we
going to use it and bring it to your people and helping them to
make next steps. Because everyone is already
doing it and everyone is already using it, or to use something
with your data. And sometimes, sometimes I think
everyone, every company have people we don't know that that
is the the problem at the moment.
Yeah, Yeah. I think it's interesting that
people are looking towards AI tools for their own
productivity, right. And if it's not integrated in
organization, then it's definitely there somewhere on
kind of shadow IT or a side track.
Someone's. Shadow AI, yeah, exactly.
But for me, when I look at kind of Copilot and the integration
in all the Microsoft tools that it can be, I still see people
heavily relying on Excel. I see people heavily relying on
e-mail communication, many online meetings nowadays with
follow-ups and tasks in different systems.
Like if those can be analysed also interlinked with regards to
data as kind of a knowledge base, then I can see definitely
a productivity increase. It's just I haven't seen
organizations really kind of encapsulate that within AI and
then be effective with it. I don't know if it's already at
that point maturity wise from a tooling perspective where they
can so that it's more the organization's side, or if it's
a tooling problem. Yeah, I, I think it, it can.
And it's not only, I think I know it can, but the yeah, I
think I see organization just start like really small and they
give some licenses and they say, OK, good luck with it.
But this, this is a really tough change because you need to work
really different everyday. And it's like a habit to do so
you change like your, your way of work.
And what people don't want to do is changing.
So when you, yeah, when you have like the, the right scenarios
and when people really know why are we doing this and what is,
what is, what are we going to achieve?
That works really well. And of course, a lot of people
really need to know how to prompt.
For example, prompting is one of the things that yeah, we all
know that we need to learn. But we as a as a human think
about that AI already know what we want.
So learning how we can use copilot, for example, and how
copilot works and what it can, but also what it not can is
really important. And I see companies that
starting with some strategy on it.
And after that it's like an adoption program where the
people who are going to start with Co pilots really get get
their help with coaching and people programs that people
helping each other and bringing some success stories to each
other. And then you're going to see
that like things happening that we don't expect in the first
hand because, yeah, someone from Seals has finding out something
new that he can do and it's makes him like 4 hours to two
hours. And that's our success stories.
So it's, it's good to get an ROI on it.
And sometimes that's, yeah, that's really hard because it's,
it's a product from like one year right now.
So how long does it take to get a right ROI knowing what to
achieve? And it evolves really fast
because like almost every day, there are some new features or
things you could do and cannot do anymore or the other way
around. So it's good to to to look back
and see, OK, what did you achieve now and what are we
going to do in the future with it and as well.
Yeah, just jump on that train, I think, and finding out and Start
learning how to use it. And I also see like companies
that are like not that far off, don't want to start already and
just want to want to wait. And of course, that's, that's,
that's good for them. But there are so many things
that happening and there are so many things that changing that I
think is really nice and really good to start with a few people
at least to get them on board learning about it because like
the adoption is really, I think really hard.
And I see that the same like years ago with moving to the
clouds. It was a real different way.
And then we have the corona and, and we need it and everything
accepted, accepted. But before that it was like
everyone doing on on the same way that they always did because
we, yeah, we don't want to change.
So we need something that we all need this, but it's it's like,
yeah, it's I think it's, it's really like everyday there need
to be something that people get involved and knowing that they
can use Copilot and where where they can use it for their role
and how it's helped them specifically on them, them role,
their role. Yeah, I can.
I can see how adoption for me is super interesting and maybe it's
because I'm more of a tech savvy person.
I think you are as well. I get excited when there's new
technology, even if it's physical or more digital.
It excites me and I don't really think about, let's say, fear of
usage. I try and have more of an
experimental mindset, but I can see that if your processes in a
company have been there for years and this thing comes out
with just truly disruptive, then yeah, it's kind of a fear of
adoption. Can definitely be there.
Also from a personal perspective, if all of a sudden
my emails are going to be read by this AI tool and then
whatever I do in Excel or Word, it's also going to be there.
It's like, yeah, I'm basically in a business context.
I'm fully naked, everything is there.
And if I feel like people can see everything, at least this AI
tool can, which means that also, if I'm going to use it, all my
mistakes are going to be either amplified or going to be shown.
Or if I make mistakes with any of it, is it then going to be me
or is it going to be this tool? Like those are all the dubs and
challenges, yeah. I understand that, but I don't.
Yeah, I think it's the same now with your e-mail or the same now
with your. It is right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's something in your in
your mind. Yeah.
And the same thing is like, I don't know if you know Delaf, do
you know that tool? It's a, it's a tool in in
Microsoft. And years ago Delaf shows in
what kind of documents you are have some rights.
So if you look at a colleague of you, you put his profile in,
then you saw these are the documents that your colleague
worked on last like 5 hours. But everyone was like what?
Why can you see what I do? But that's why you have the same
rights on that document. So you can see everything where
everyone is working on only the things that you already have
some rights on of emails that you have together or some
documents that you you shared with each other.
And the same happens with like Co pilots.
If you ask something, for example, what is the salary of
my boss? I would say something like that.
Yeah, it could be that there's something is popping up because
you have the rights on that document.
So a lot of things change and a lot of people has fare on that
as well because, yeah, they think everything what I what I
use right now, can people see? And that's not no, that's not
true. But yeah, there are companies
that yeah, don't have it all right and need to do some stuff
really soon to get it all on the right way.
And they can start, for example, with this kind of a itles.
Yeah, interesting if your access management is already not really
up to par and it gets amplified because information is
accessible more so than it used to be.
Yeah, and and it was already, but now, now it's pop time.
Yeah, it's easier accessible. Yeah, and I think this as well
from the Corona time that people really move Fast forward to to
the clouds and using teams for example and that kind of things
that's yeah, they never clean up or yeah and as well some
documents like that are really old also popping up.
You don't want to want all the hey, you only want to have like
the information that is right now on this time for you really
valuable. So that's another thing like we
have so many documents and so many so many information.
What kind of information do you want as Co pilots hits for you?
So there are a lot of things there that you can use and yeah,
you can put in place. Do you need to think about kind
of all of that in advance, or can you start small and kind of
experiment your way through it and hit your own sweet spot?
You can start small, yes, you can start small with different
use cases, for example, and see what kind of people have their,
what kind of rights have they. But if you also can say like,
OK, we want all this kind of documents, they call it the
SharePoint slides, this only this SharePoint sites can we put
in for copilots and only this one we want to use or the other
way around. So yeah, you can always start
really small and then after let it grow.
What would the smallest use case be then?
Because what I'm imagining is sometimes, and this can be on
Confluence, but definitely also on SharePoint, I know there's a
document, I just have no way of finding it.
Like it's, I know the content, I know kind of the context.
If I use search, I get many other documents that are not the
one I'm looking for. That would be for me the prime
use case if all of a sudden I can find what I'm looking for.
Yeah, yeah. But.
I don't know if that's the first one you would tackle.
Yeah, I think yeah, it's, it's do you know for everyone is
different, right. When you search for something on
the same tenant, then I search, we both have a different
document probably that pops up. But yeah, it's, it's like
learning about how you what you want, like the prompts about
that document. I think that's one.
So that's from the adoption side.
And the second, OK, it's about how many documents you already
have and do you clean up all that kind of stuff and what is
the version 12345 that we put on?
But the right prompt, I think is, is most important to find a
really good, good, good documents.
And there, yeah, there are a few things that you can think about.
There is like always be really nice to Co violate.
That's one of the the things that you always need to do.
It really helps. And the second is, OK, what do
we want to achieve? I, for example, if I want to
have a document or I want some things about a document, I can
say, OK, I'm searching for this, I'm looking for bullet points,
or I'm looking for this subject and I worked in this document
the last two weeks, or I worked in this document somewhere in
June last year. Oh, OK, All that kind of
information is really valuable. And that will be one, let's say
longer prompt as well. Yeah, yeah.
OK. So you can put it in a longer
prompt and then the search will be way better than only say I'm
searching for. And that's the adoption part.
And I mean, we don't know how to use it copilot on the right way.
And we think Co pilots already know because we're working in so
many documents already and we'll understand.
We'll understand we that we want that document and that's not
true. Yeah.
Yeah, it's, it's interesting because the human language
aspect, I feel like that's what makes prompting harder.
Like immediately when you said, OK, you can say these things, I
was like, OK, you can do like a workflow builder where you ask
these types of questions, but then anything else is kind of
not in that workflow unless you actually have it in the
workflow. So the natural language is
always going to be most powerful.
But then indeed, you need to be, I feel like, very specific and
expanded in what you're looking for.
That's the challenge. Yeah.
And the other one is like not only asking one question, I want
this, but the other one is like, OK, what are the next steps?
Why do you want a document? So it's the next step that you
want to document because you want something out of it or do
you want that? What is what is the thing that
you really want to achieve with that document?
And sometimes you can think about at first hand already why
you want that. So, yeah, for example, with like
a meeting, we are meeting together in Teams.
So we have copilot on. And then I can say, give me the
summarize of this meeting. Why I want to summarize of this
meeting. I want a management report or
one of management bullets from our next steps from our
marketing plan. I don't know.
I can think a lot of things what what probably is why I want to
summarise summarise from the meeting or like I have a
customer customer appointments in in in teams and I just want
to sends the customer all the information that I said that I'm
going to do and what I want to achieve from that customer.
That's different than only asking give me a summarise of
this meeting and everyone do give me a summarise of this
meeting because that's like. That's what you want, but not
necessarily why. Yeah.
But I really want an e-mail already or I want something that
it's already in, in in place and not just working by myself on it
to make it an e-mail. So a lot of people don't know
and don't understand that you can do that in front already by
knowing what you want to achieve at the end.
So you put what you want to achieve in the end in the
beginning, so you get better results because then Copilot
understands what you want. It's interesting.
I immediately thought of, OK, how we do product development is
also understanding why we do things and then what needs to be
done. And then sometimes even we
discuss how we're going to do that.
If you're all fit that in a prompt, then it's exactly the
same as defining what features you want in a product.
Except, yeah, talking about what is the most easy, it's the
shortest. We don't have time anyways, so
everything needs to be fast. But I think taking the time and
kind of giving the context as you would to another human
that's like new might be most effective then.
Yeah, That's interesting. Yeah.
Yeah, I see a lot of kind of companies jumping on this
workplace automation. I would say bandwagon Microsoft
is definitely there with copilot.
I love the name copilot. I think it's genius marketing
do. You know how many Co pilots
there? Are I have no clue. 108.
That is ridiculous. 108 is insane.
I I see Google doing the same because Google obviously has
their drive, their e-mail. They also have a beautiful
workplace automation, yes, kind of use case.
I see companies like Miro also jumping on that, which started
as a digital whiteboard. Now they kind of encapsulate
whatever comes out of a session, summarize it.
They also have kind of a Word template or Excel template
generator. It's like, wow, everyone is kind
of on this race to do workplace automation and I think it's
really cool. Do you know kind of which
company is far, far and ahead or is everything kind of equal with
regards to tools and functionalities and development?
I think it's a good question and I don't really know who is the
most far of it because I'm just focusing on on literally
Microsoft tools. But yeah, there are a few things
that I really like. For example, from Google is the
LMSLMS. What I did last month was
generating and podcast. I don't know if you.
I have done that, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
That kind of things. But yeah, that's I think there
are a lot of absolutely great tools in every different
products of the different companies that you mentioned.
But yeah, when I when I see like Microsoft buildings, there are
there are companies that really far in, in this.
So they are starting like 1 1/2 year ago with an early access
program and started right there. And they scaling up in, in the
use of of, of copilots. Yeah.
And they're, I don't know, in the Netherlands, I think they're
a little bit behind. So I see it more like in in the
Nordics. And The funny thing there is
that they have like something in general like that.
They why it's there is because they need something from
government's perspective to get the data already earlier already
prepared for something like this.
I don't know how it's really is, but is something like they are
way front of a farther than we are in the Netherlands because
the data things we have like NIST and we have all kind of
things then in the Netherlands that we where a lot of customers
are are working on and need to be from government perspective
need to be need to be set. But there are also something in,
in in the Nordics as well. But that means like there it
means like they are way far than we are because they are has some
more steps in data security and data governance and we have so
many companies that still need to do that before they really
kind of make big steps in, in Co pilots.
Interesting. And I don't know how that is in
mirror or Google or I think the same problems I don't.
Know it could be yeah yeah yeah it's interesting I think so for
me the the part of responsibilities also comes with
adoption because if I now generate content like generating
content on existing documents I feel like is different than
generating an answer out of nothing out of a large language
model, which is kind of what I do with ChatGPT.
If I think of, OK, I'm trying to do this and I'm trying to
brainstorm with something, that's my buddy, basically,
that's what I do it with. But if it's based on a document
and the document is like everything of my organization
basically, or at least the subset, then I feel like that's
closer to the truth. But it can still have mistakes.
So then whatever content is generated through that, if I use
it and it has mistakes, I feel like it's going to either, I
don't know if people are going to lose kind of that sense of
ownership of that or that responsibility.
But I wonder what happens when mistakes or errors do occur and
if people are going to finger point or if people are going to
actually take ownership. Because in the end, the copilot
is something that enables a person.
So I think the responsibility is still there is the person.
But also if a lot of things go right and then a few things go
wrong, it's like, yeah, it's out of my control.
Yeah. True.
And if you like thinking about you work like 40 hours in a
week, I don't know if that's, but if you can say, OK, I can do
the same in, in like 35 hours or 30 hours or I have more
creativity or I, I have more time for other things to do as
well. Yeah.
Then I'm thinking about, OK, really great, this great job
that we are doing with each other.
And I don't care if it's AI or it's me that generated it or so.
Yeah. The fun thing is, I think for me
it's like the same as you just has a buddy that helps me to be
creative or I need to say also talking about talking minutes
all day in the car. Hi buddy, how are you?
No, I just, I have some, some thoughts and I'm thinking about
OK. I just want to start like a
LinkedIn post about the subjects.
And I think this is really important for me and This is why
I am doing this. And then yeah, THBT your Co
filer, it comes away and say, OK, what, what do you think
about this? And then it's just a starting
point. And then like 1 1/2 hour, hour
later, I have my my post that I want to want to post.
And of course it's not like the whole post that that I want like
100% because I'm still putting my things in it.
And I it's like a concept, but I think like there, yeah, why I'm
just saying this is I think a lot of people still have in
their minds it's not good to use AI.
Yeah, because it's not myself. And you see like a lot of
content that is AI generated as well.
So I think you need to learn how you can use it on the right way.
So it's not feels like AI generated, but it helps you with
so many skills like learning, be creative, more person or do
things faster than before. And one of the things that is
also really interesting is thinking about the next
generation that is coming to the fields.
Because when I see my kids, I have two young kids, they're
sitting on their iPads and they're scrolling and they say
they have the feeling that everything needs to come to to
them. And I see that as well with the
next generation that is coming to the fields right now.
We want that everything is coming to us.
And I think when I yeah, when when I think about the agents
and all that kind of stuff, this is something for the next
generation as well for us. But I think really for the next
generation. Are you going to say, OK, I I
found this this e-mail and I know what you answer will be.
I made this already for you. What do you think?
OK, I'm fine. Send it.
I think that's what we want and I think that's the future.
Interesting. Yeah, it's it's very different
from how I grew up in what was possible, right.
If you want something, you go get it yourself.
You do your own research, then it sticks.
Then, you know, for the future, the knowledge part is already
now solved. If you have a question, you ask
it, you get an answer. The validity of that answer, you
don't even question anymore because the accuracy gets higher
and higher. And at some point you build a
confidence with something and you're like, yeah, this is the
answer. Same as a Google search.
I don't really question it. I might try a different few
articles. There's definitely selection
bias because if I think something and I see it, then
that's a confirmation. I should say confirmation bias,
but I feel like it's going to be amplified with generated content
then as well. I think definitely a younger
generation is going to be helping kind of move an
organization because out-of-the-box, already in I
think high school and a university educational journey,
people are already using it. There's nothing against using
it. I think definitely already use
it. I had a person 2 days ago on the
podcast Marcel and he said that like I don't even care if it's
spelled the right way. Like if the essence is there, if
the content is there, then sure, let an AI tool fix the spelling
for you. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
It's about the essence rather than the format.
And it used to be all about the format, and the format needed to
be correct because we didn't have anything else.
So one of the things that it's also interesting is like,
because I had like prompted on a few weeks ago, it's at Microsoft
Office and it was with the school, with some teachers.
And when you think about, OK, what we had like a discussion
about can students use AI for their school?
And of course there were a few things.
No, no, no, no, no, doesn't come to happen.
I don't want that because they want to learn by themselves.
But there were also others that said, OK, yes, I wanted them.
Let them use it because then they we make them ready for the
future. We make them ready for the next
step in their career. We need to learn them how to use
it creative so they can use it, but as well learning from it and
know what's in it and why they do it in that way.
So what we did with a prompt on and what's really funny was like
asking Co pilots to give questions and answers in a way.
If it's like some famous people or some someone like yeah, you
can say we want like someone you want to learn from.
You can say like Steve Jobs or you can say like someone from
history classes. I don't know, you can think
about everything. And if you use copilot for this
and I can say, OK, why do you did this and answer it in in the
way of that that kind of person you want.
And they were already like what? So they learnt by using like Co
partners, learning by giving some, some some answers in their
classing room and as well giving the why are they doing this in a
real funny way? Because the answers were really
amazing. And what we did as well is not
only that we did also. And how do you say that when you
are in a room and you want to go out like a game?
OK, like an escape room? Yeah.
You can also do like in Co bodies, say OK make an escape
room. Oh.
Wow on like the studio that we are today and this is how it how
it sees and I'm with this this person and I want to learn
prompting. So if you say something like
this copilot makes like an escape room and you can work
together to get out of it. So that's our again, I think
more the adoption type of things.
We don't know what we can do and we don't know how we can use it
and what kind of type of rules. And I think for developers is
different for security people is different for people who are at
schools and teachers who want to have more time with the
students, making a creative way of of content, want to inform
the the parents better. I don't know.
You can think about a lot of different scenarios in this
case, yeah. And it's really fun that there
are so many ways that you can use and that we need to be
creative to to give that to others.
Yeah, yeah. I think especially in in
education and with young people, even younger and younger, like
it's such a unique way to then educate people.
Like I, I definitely had a preference.
My preference was anything gamified I would learn from
faster than anything else. That's the reason why I can
speak English the way I do is because English was always there
because of video games and like media there in in Netherlands,
nothing is dubbed anyway. Like anything, everything is
English with subtitles. And I would always bother my
parents and be like, can you translate this because I'm stuck
basically and I don't understand what it says because I don't
understand the language. So that was for me really a leg
up in this English language and education.
I feel like whatever kind of makes young people take what
gets them excited is also a way to stimulate their educational
journey. And by means of being that kind
of, yeah, I think generated content, it allows for that
flexibility that I think we we're kind of missing currently
in educational journeys. They're very standardised,
they're tailor made. I think with tablets and like
digital transformation that has become better, like you can go
faster than your peers. It can be a bit more custom, but
still it's very much workflow oriented.
It's very much in certain brackets with this now is like,
yeah, the world is your oyster. You just have to think about.
It you want to be. Yeah, I think that's very
exciting. One of the things that I do is
Women in Cyber program and Women in AI program that I'm going to
start this year as well. And what it is, is like the
Women in Cyber program is women that are not really in the
fields but want to start with something like security because
they think, OK, I really want to know more about this, probably
something for my next job, but I don't know where to start.
So we made like an 8 week program for women with different
Microsoft partners where they have like a certification and
after that probably can start. You can think about people that
are dentists or like working in a shop or all kind of different
roles all come together. So it's really fun.
And now we also have like women in AI programme.
And the fun fact is also there is like you can learn everything
which you want and it doesn't matter where you're from.
And the same is what we see like in that eight week program,
everyone OK, we have mentoring, we have people around everybody
helping each other. And it's real great to have like
a community that everyone is supporting each other and you're
in the same like same way because everyone is new.
It's exciting. Yeah, it's exciting.
And they are all using like as well copilot or chattability or
what kind of way AI to make them learning in like 8 weeks.
And some of them started like with women in cyber and now want
to go into women in AI and they want to build the Azure open AI
and want to do for more like, yeah, different, different AI
tools try to find out if they can do something by themself or
in, just in, in, in security wise.
So, yeah, I think also with the comments of AI and as well like
different programmes and community stuff.
It's, it's really fun to see that it's that evolving and that
everyone more have the feeling, maybe more of the feeling that
they can be who they wanna be and they have tools around to
help them and enable them as well.
Yeah, absolutely. And fun fact, it's like 285
women were in the last three years programme for women in
cyber. And I don't know, but I think if
we're coming to start with women in AI probably will be massive.
I think, I think that's real is I, I believe that that's
something that's really can be big because I think everyone
wants to start, but don't know where to start and see that like
AI is something that you need in your career or you need to start
somewhere. And I think that's as well.
The problem is that people don't know, still don't know where to
start. Yeah, I think that's amazing.
If a program offers that, it's it's what people are looking
for, right? You see everything out there.
It's just this stepping stone of starting is really the hardest
for people. I know.
It's definitely for me. I feel like once I've started
something, it's easier to keep going.
But starting is the hard part, yeah.
Yeah, What's your favorite tool? I I honestly use ChatGPT for
almost everything. It's like my partner said.
Have you used it to like research stuff for podcasting?
I was like, I didn't even think about that.
But now I've started doing that. It's like for content, it's for
guests, it's for kind of ideas. More and more now I've done a
first year as product manager. So also for product
understanding the domain, doing discovery work, brainstorming.
I'm, I'm still trying to kind of tread the line of giving enough
information and context without giving any confidential
information. Like that's always a challenge.
Yeah. But it's also because it's not
really an adopted tool in an organization because otherwise
you can accommodate for that. Yeah.
So that's, we have also within CBR, we have this Slack bot,
it's called Slack GPT. So it's easily accessible in
Slack. You just send a message, you get
answers back. Like if you want to do any image
generation, you can do through there as well.
So it's like a nice funnel for everything.
Yeah, I always experiment with it.
It's like a kind of a second brain.
Yeah. And I've always had that as a
kid also, like that curiosity, except I feel like adults didn't
really have time or attention. Like if a kid asks why a million
times and at some point you're out.
But I feel like with this, I can do that over and over again.
And yeah, we can keep going. Yeah, I do the same, like also
Chajimti, but also when I'm in the car I'm Oh yeah, don't
listen to any music anymore. Like I'd always say hi Chajimti,
can you help me please? Wow, I want to do this.
I haven't done that yet. Oh, really?
Yeah. Maybe it's because I use public
transfer. It'd be a bit odd, yeah.
Oh yeah, that's true. Yeah.
It was still. Funny.
Yeah. Yeah.
Nice. I, I was wondering, it's kind of
a last thought. You mentioned that if we're in a
world where people become more productive in a company in their
way of working, you can reduce your 40 hour work.
We can, you can be done, let's say in 30 or 32, Let's do a 20%
deficit, 32. Would that mean that people
would then work less or would they do more?
Because I also feel like definitely in this tech space,
like people are getting burned out more and more.
It's because there's too many thoughts that they kind of take
with them at home and their brain is never off and it like
really effects their mental and in the end their physical as
well. I feel like if you're going to
do more and you're going to do faster and you're not going to
work less than, that's going to happen faster.
Yeah. I think that's a really good
point what you mentioned there, because that's something where
you really need to discuss in being point as well with the
ROI. So what do we want to achieve
and why are we want to achieve that?
Because yeah, if you have like more more time and you go to
work even more. I think we did that the same
like when we started to working in the clouds and get more time
because you can work together on the same documents and blah,
blah, blah. And we have safe time then
because we have team, team meetings.
But when I look at my calendar at this moment, it's even more.
It's full and. You do you.
Don't work less at all driving to to a customer and then can I
make my my head, my space in my head a little bit down and now
it's like full, full, full. Back-to-back.
Yeah. Well, sometimes a teams meeting
as well. So I think we only work more and
I think the same happens when we do that with Co pilots or other
AI tools or we going to drink more coffee and going to talk
more with each other. I think that's a good part if we
go to talk more with each other, but it needs to be as well on
the agenda in the forefront, knowing what are we going to
achieve. And I hope that there are
organisations going to say like, OK, we can achieve this.
So for example with HR with HR is always one of the departments
with. Where where we can achieve a lot
with copilot as well with with marketing administration roles,
that kind of things. Yeah.
How great could it be if they say like 40, we can make it like
30 and you can do a lot more like in development or learning
or you can say, OK, make my day smaller and go to the gym.
I don't know. We always say that, but I think
it's, yeah, again, it needs to be on the agenda from strategy
sides. We don't.
A lot of people don't do that. No, I, I feel like you need to
be in a very profitable space because if, if you have many
competitors and those competitors are not doing that
and they're still working, let's say 40 hours rapidly, then it's
like, yeah, you can offer your like your employees 20% of like
personal learning and development.
But indeed, if you then look at an ROI and no one else is doing
that, you really need to believe that that's going to pay you
back in the end. True.
That's a hard. That's a hard reality.
Reality. Yeah.
And I think it can. Be.
I think so too. But yeah, and, and I'm also
curious, now we're talking about it, how is our life like in five
years or three years? I think because like Copilot is
there like 1 and all year one year.
I don't think a lot of things going to happen in, in, in, in
this space as well. Yeah.
And I'm really curious what what going to happen if I think about
the agents and the processes and all the other AI tools that are
popping up. Yeah, I think everyone just need
to start with something, right? And I need to figure out how
they can use it and make nuts because they not because AI is
taking them over. But yeah, they need to
understand it is going to help them.
And then you are in the forefront because you are the
person who understands how it works.
And that's the person like in three years that you don't know
how to start and how it all work.
Yeah, you'd be very far behind then.
Yeah, absolutely. And then it's the new
generation. I know it all exactly.
Yeah, It's similar to a tech boom.
Like you still have people that don't really know how to operate
a computer or anything digital. This might be the same happening
right in front of us. Ohh, I have people that don't
know how to put an attachment in an e-mail.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's going to be, I mean, they're going to definitely be
helped if they figure this out. Yeah, they don't have to.
Yeah, yeah. This was a real blast.
Famka, thank you so much for coming on and sharing.
You're welcome in kind of this journey as we laid it out for
copilot and what's exciting about the future.
Is there anything missing that you still want to share?
The future of Copilot is what we're missing, what I want to
share question. I always throw this curveball at
the end for people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I think what I already mentioned is like, I think more
things will come to us in the future and it's good for people
to step now on the train and understand that it's now the
time to do this. And yeah, when I think about the
future, I think we all go to sit in a car or in a train talking
with our Co pilots and, and make things happen.
And yeah, I think that's will be will will be the the future for
everyone. I I hope.
Awesome. Yeah, I think I, I think times
are exciting. Like definitely in a short
amount of time, I haven't seen much change in organizations,
but I feel like things are slowly cooking and brewing, like
they're still the rat race from a tooling perspective to enable
more and more. And organizations are
experimenting and following through more and more.
So things are definitely going to ramp up soon.
Maybe final words on that start small and look at the people
around you in the world because there are so many use cases or
examples and you don't have to figure it out all by yourself.
There are so many people that are already doing and yeah, so
many good people can help you with that as well.
So I think there is fear, but yeah, good to good to understand
the market and knowing what you can do.
Awesome. Thanks again for coming on and
sharing, and I'm going to round it off here.
If you're still here, let us know in the comments section
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