Hi everyone. My name is Patrick Akil and
today's episode is all about self-worth mindset and breaking.
The salary sharing taboo joining me today is tobio.
Diwali was a co-founder of three skills sales lead over at
Shopify and a real entrepreneur. I'll put all of Toby's socials
in the description below and I hope you enjoyed the episode.
I really think it's a good one. So I think me and my girlfriend
are looking into right now. We're just moving in living
everywhere. But at some point we will buy
something that is kind of steady.
And then we'll still do the same thing except we'll have kind of
a home based in Amsterdam that way.
Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. Real estate is the ultimate
tri-coat young feels like that. Yeah, I mean, who's playing the
game? Hopefully, I can retire soon.
I keep play. I played the lottery yesterday.
I didn't win. You do got a place, you wanna
win. Yeah.
But could you or your you said your wife, both work at Shopify.
Currently. Yeah, we both work here.
So my wife, she went to school for nursing and so she studied
nursing and then she like she started working as a nurse and
there's like a couple incidents where you know, obviously they
here in Canada, they work like 12 hour shifts, four days a
week, five days off or five days a week.
Four days off, something like that.
Yeah. And you know, you're working
till 2 a.m. you're tired. You're eating at 2 a.m. and she
just started to realize, like, you know, the lifestyle was in
there and she wanted to make more money but all she did was
nursing. So, yeah, you know, one day she
has like a massive scare. She's administering.
A needle to like a patient in their arm and the needle goes,
is to am. The needle goes into the arm
comes out of the arm into her. Our unknown.
That's like the biggest scare for nurses.
She's in the hospital for 24 hours doing every test in the
book. You know, hepatitis everything
comes back clean, but the anxiety that it caused the
unknown, nothing? Alright, so I started out, I was
like listen you don't have to be a nurse she's like, but I
studied nursing. I'm like, yes.
But that you also know that I have a company where I created
it because people think they have to To do what they studied,
like you are not a nurse. You are a human being to study
nursing. Exactly.
Most importantly, you are a human being, they can learn
anything. So then I started connecting her
with people. So I connected her with my
friend who is a branch manager at Scotiabank.
His wife is my co-founder at three skills.
Yeah so she got into Scotiabank obviously a nurse in banking the
level of care was insane. So she was getting five-star
reviews even though she never asked you forgot.
Ask. Yeah, you know, because you're
supposed to ask in every interaction, please give me a
five star rating, and she forgot to ask, but she had the highest
rating in the bank. So she got promoted after three
months and, you know, read a cool to a new role and then I'm
like, okay, you're moving. So I introduced her to another
person at Uber, so she gets a job at Uber again, really good
ratings. And then whoever has the big
layoffs, 2020 layoffs, during the pandemic.
So she takes a couple months trying to figure out like, okay,
where to next, we buy the house while she's laid off and then,
you know, I connected to our friend who's a realtor, she
works there as an operations manager.
After a while. It's just like okay we closed on
the house, she didn't like the job.
I was like you can quit we got the equity.
Yeah so she she quits we go to Mexico for a week.
Real celebrate come back and then I'm like hey you gotta get,
you know, maybe I can text sales job.
So she now takes all this experience.
Rolls it into text sales and a company called hop in.
Really do like virtual events and so she did that for five
months and then I got a promotion at chop Fighter, a
team lead role and what happened was?
We had to hire like 70 reps and in like six months.
Oh well, but when I started, they had named the actual role
in correctly. So people didn't know as a sales
role because I didn't know any, like ninety thousand dollars.
Yeah, but I knew so I told my wife was like, hey, you should
apply for this roast and so she did.
I cleared it with my boss and she's a great sales rep.
She's a nurse or Someone that was a nurse, you know, selling
right the level of empathy is through the roof.
Charts, exacto, she gets hard on, the spot, gets the job.
It's so that we both work is shocked by.
Yeah, I love that story. It step by step and taking it
slowly and actually not looking at what you've done in your past
and what you've studied. But the skills that you
cultivate, right, those translate in a better human
being and in can't lose that. No, you never lose that.
Yeah, it's it's in your blood. Like it's something that you
don't even have to pretend to be right.
Like she is the most used to get in trouble as a nurse for
spending too much time with patients.
Yeah. I'm like in sales we call that
sales craft. Exactly.
Like so we just got to get you in the right place and now she's
making more in her base salary that she ever would, as a nurse
after 10 years experience. Yeah, like so.
It's it's also important. Like one of my biggest missions
is like, I need people to make the maximum that they can make
in any given environment. Yeah, like, if you are just
starting as a new grad, you should be making the maximum.
You can make in whatever you're doing.
If you're 5 years, in 10 years, in my big companies, small
company, like, I really don't care.
You should be making the maximum so that you can actually build a
life that you want instead of working till you're 65 for.
You know, retirement and a pension?
Yeah, yeah. I can imagine though when you
tell people that what they think they deserve is probably a lot
lower than what they actually deserve seeing their skills are
setting their their past experience.
There's a huge mismatch there and I don't know where it comes
from. I think is there's a lack of
transparency and that's the main factor.
Well yeah things that are secret.
Can be hidden better, right? Like so you know, companies
don't share. On purpose.
Yeah. And you know, you can ask.
So I did a poll on my Instagram once and I said, what is the
maximum you believe? You can be making right now with
your current skill level. And the answers were horrendous,
really? And people are like 50k.
And I knew these people, they're all my Instagram friends.
Yeah right. So I knew some of them for as
long as ten, twenty years. So there's 50, k 7t k.
And so at some point I was like, okay I'm going to start replying
everybody, they start replying everyone and I'm going knowing
what I know about you. And the current market, you
know, they say they said 70k, yeah, like you're worth about
120. This one goes.
Yeah, 90k. It's like, hmm.
No. Like, I've literally worked with
you. You're worth closer to like
180k. Damn man.
That is like a huge gap. What?
Yeah, so literally, two months later.
He sends me a message. He's like, you won't believe
this. I'm like I probably won't and he
goes I just got a director e-commerce roll 480 thousand
dollars. Yeah, I was like Wow, I was
kidding. So just how I was.
Okay, but it was amazing. Like, yes, that's not a
lifestyle change, right? That's that is generational
right like 87 TK. He was at 70 or 80 K. 2ya now,
like 150 160 just the base salary.
Like, you haven't just changed your life like you can set your
family up. Yeah, like oh good right.
Like Few good decisions and you are set.
Your kids are set, right? So seeing that lifestyle change
was good. I probably got like, 100
responses. I was just telling people.
There's nobody that replied to me that I didn't say.
You can make more. I literally, like those one guys
like 340 calves, like, you can get to 400 still?
Yeah, it's like because I knew him.
I'm like, the thing is, whatever.
Your maximum is in your head. Can't be your maximum because,
as long as long as we're, It means we will always be our
biggest critics now. You are your biggest critic.
So if you throw a number out to even in optimism, You're
probably still wrong. Yeah, I'd like that.
So now a stranger could come and be like, like, I thought I was
worth 80 K until this one company was like, will pay you
150 K. Okay.
It's like what I'm worth 150. Exactly.
Like it's crazy. So that that change my
perspective I was like I'm worth 150,000 dollars.
I should probably go make that. Yeah so it's just breaking
people like half of my Job. If not more is just freaking
people out of their own limiting beliefs, it's like if I can tell
you, so I'm coaching a guy, he's you know, director of something
at bank and We're going through and, you know, one of the roles
he starts to interview for, you know, let's say he's making like
120 to 150 at the bank. Yeah, we are through the
coaching sessions. I'm like, you know, helping him
tell a story better and all that stuff.
And, you know, I'm like, you're worth closer to like, 200 250 in
my eyes, right? Like, based off, when I know
about you first, offer that he gets or first role that he gets
to the final stages for the offer, I should say.
The total column for that role was 550.
Wow, okay. I was like even close.
Yeah, okay. Wow, you know, like I didn't
even know what the maximum he could make was right, but you
put yourself in the right environments, right?
Because things are different value in different environments,
right? Water?
You know, when you're in your kitchen, right?
Water is free, right? You go to a restaurant, water is
1 euro, right? Like you go to the airport
waters for you Rose, right? Can why you can't get water
anywhere else, right? You got to go to the right?
Yeah. Now if you're in the desert, you
haven't had water for 30 days. Someone walks by you, got 300
bucks. Water is today. 300 bucks.
Exactly. All right.
And so it's understanding like okay where are your skills the
most valuable in the market right now.
Okay. And and that's where you go get
your money. Yeah I haven't I haven't looked
at it like that. I have thought so I'm going to
get personal and obviously IE, this podcast is sponsored by my
company, but I can be completely transparent.
I've talked to my managers that I've said in the past, listen
events, have happened, and I have looked outside, I've always
kept looking for opportunity and seeing what my market value is
right. But that is always in my head is
I like my job, I like what I'm doing, I don't want to change
yet. The only way I could make more
money, is if I switch and then even, I can come back and come
in with a higher base salary, because everything is
percentage. And I told them this model does
not scale, this is how you're going to lose the best people
that you have. Because if that's the playing
field, people will play that playing field to the best of
their personal gain. She's just the system is so
broken, in my opinion. Yeah.
It's it was just set up II. Can't understand why things were
set up the way they were but I guess what I try to explain to
people is, you know, You gotta play the game.
Yeah. Right.
Like if companies playing the game, you gotta play the game,
right? Like and if you can't play that
game, then you gotta find the other way, right?
So for me, there's a couple people I've helped within our
company go into new roles that pay them like 40 50 % more.
Yeah, right. Like you can't do it in the same
role because budgets don't work like that, right?
Like the budget for you this year, can't go up 50%.
In this role. Yeah, it can go up. 3 to 10
percent exact 10%. You got like, you need like
Civic. Six approvals.
You know what? If you go into somebody else's
org within the same company and they have X budget, right?
You could actually get like a 40 50 percent race.
I got a 73 percent raise for this for this new role and she
was like I got it. I had to get to approvals and
what you told me I was like, I can I trust you to get the
approvals? Yeah, right.
Like But in those cases like they're, they're a bit rare, but
they're possible, but I just don't understand why companies
don't pay to keep talent because it costs so much money to lose
talent. And it's funny because companies
always say it's so much easier to keep a customer than to get a
new customer. Yeah.
What about your own people? Yeah.
What about your employees, right?
Like it's easier to keep your employees so I'm still trying to
figure it out. But I mean, there's companies
Microsoft Airbnb right there going you know what, we're going
to raise people's salaries were going to pay you whatever.
Yeah. Going to be transparent, right?
It's I think it's slack, even a stripe.
Like it's public. Its public within the company.
What each level makes what? The range is for each level.
Yeah. Right.
So I know like if I'm going for this level, this is what I
should expect. But I think a lot of companies
part of keeping in people in the dark is knowing that, like,
people can't like. So think about the people that
replied to my Instagram story. People can't ask for more if
they don't know that more exists.
Yeah, that's it. Like so you keep your budget
side. You don't talk about salary, you
make me all these crazy like non-competes and nda's and all
the stuff. Don't talk about your salary.
Don't worry about your salary II made more money by talking about
my salary. Exactly like so, There's no way
I'm not talking about it ever again.
Like, I tell people that don't expect to hear my salary, I tell
them. And I'm like, if this can happen
for me, this can happen for you. And now, all of a sudden, I see
their eyes light up. Yeah.
Right. I gotta text on it.
Grow within the company. She was drinking, 70k, she calls
me or send me a message a month ago.
She's like, you won't believe this.
I went from 70 to 115. Yeah, that is life-changing.
Exactly. That is a huge Bump like those
boats, they shouldn't be normal. We should already be at that
level. Yeah.
But I mean like I talked to a lot of people coming out of
University and they're like, okay in a few years sure they
always give themselves a few years to get to that level but
they could already be there, right?
And in a few years they could be better.
Yep, a lot of organizations just hire a lot of people very cheap,
let them kind of float and then what they do see is pain points
and they do see people complaining yet, not a lot
changes. Is right.
And then they think, okay, in my organization, this is just how
it works or in other or in every organization organizations.
I want to be in. This is the name of the game and
then they stretch that time frame, they stretch it to a few
years, 25 years to 10 years. And although son, you look back
and you're like, ah, I'm still kind of within that range that I
expected which is because you expected that.
Exactly. And in like our minds, our
greatest, It's with their also, our greatest enemies.
Yeah. If you like there's one of my
favorite saying is wherever there's a rule, I can be the
exception, right? And I teach that to all my
students, they go. Nobody's ever done it before.
I'm like, amazing. I really like that.
You get to be the first one. Yeah.
Right. Like I don't know anyone that's
gone. The 73 percent increase.
Amazing. I'll do it.
Yeah, set the stage. All right.
You set the stage just like it's if there's a rule that someone
has to break like the, what was it the for me.
Or four-minute mile or whatever it was.
All right, everyone's like impossible.
Yeah. Possible can't be done if
possible Right flying freaking plane in the air like no.
Yeah. Be that one could do that.
We gotta walk. You know like someone goes there
has to be an exception right? And once the the crazy person
finds the exception now becomes the standard.
Yeah. Right that's it.
Oh now that's all we do is like the reason our company exists is
because we found it. Exceptions and taught those
exceptions to people. And now, those are becoming the
standards for the what 300 people.
We've helped transition careers, right?
That's 300 families. 300 lives, right?
Three hundred Generations ride like that.
Now are making more money and you can actually just like,
look, back and go. Well, how did this start?
Well, one person found an exception.
Exactly, right. So, I think that's, that's been
like, a big big thing for me, even with the house that we
bought. We weren't supposed to buy the
house by wipe. My wife has just been laid off,
so we didn't have double income, we needed double income.
I had just started my Shopify job and we didn't have the
money. We had about half of the money,
they needed to be able to buy a house.
But then I found that you can buy a new construction house, it
would be ready in a year or so and you only have to put down 5%
on a payment plan over five months, okay?
It was like amazing. Yeah, like a little loopy,
That's what we're gonna do. And I came home and I told my
wife, I'm like, we're buying a house.
She's like, how I'm literally in the jobless, like, I know here's
the plan. Yeah, and I don't know the
planets, like, here's how we're going to buy a house.
And I called my friend, I called, like my mortgage
brokers, like, listen, we can find a way and then I almost
gave up, and then my mortgage brokers like, no, no, no.
I I got you. Here's a way.
Here's where we can do it and I found the exception.
We put the money down, and we made ten times.
Ten times more than we put down. Yep the year and a half this is
ridiculous. That is not the good enough
reason to look for exceptions. I don't know what is I made more
from my house and my me and my wife did combined.
Yeah, right. So that's like that's why it's
important to ask the question. How can we do this?
Yeah. How can we do this?
Not, this can't be done. It's like how can it be done?
Exactly how your brain goes into problem-solving mode, right?
So that's just something that we hope that people just like, in
Grain because it takes, it takes one moment for your whole life
to change. Yeah, new salary, bump.
Everything is different. Yeah.
What I, what I love is that, I think this mindset or this
realization is setting in with more and more people and
therefore more and more organizations as well, right?
I mean, that's one of the reasons I found you on LinkedIn.
Because one of my friends hit me up and was like this guy, this
guy is talking a lot of sense, right?
Even in this conversation, it's very inspirational and it
shouldn't be right? It's a weird.
It's a weird thing that this is inspirational, we say, Okay,
money is not important. Obviously it is important.
It plays a crucial role in your wealth and as well as your
families will. But because we come from a
certain background, that's always how I've seen at.
I was like, okay, I am supposed to be in this kind of a
category. This is what is expected of me.
Even though I'm the first of my family, to graduate at a
university, I kind of could see myself with in these things.
And that I'm content with that, right?
But every conversation I've had with either colleagues or with
people, I've worked in the past made me realize, okay?
This is not the ceiling. If I have that conversation,
right? The conversation with my
manager, conversation with a different job, it is not an easy
conversation and sometimes it's not even comfortable but it is a
very important Conversation. So the more you have those
conversations, the more comfortable you're going to be
in those and the better you're going to get at that as well and
all of a sudden, you bump the ceiling.
And if I understood you correctly, it can be multiple
tens of percentages. And then you're like man, I
could never dream of that, which is crazy.
Yeah. Like I couldn't dream of what I
currently make. Yeah.
Like if someone called me two years ago and you can make this
amount, I'd be like you're lying.
Exactly. Yeah, but what happened was?
I met a guy when I was 20. It's just graduating and His
first year he had, you know, when he first was working, he
was making 38 or 39 thousand dollars.
He joined a new company that first year thinking made it's
like 60 or 70 thousand dollars and then like maybe eighty
thousand dollars. But then something incredible
start to happen to go to 80,000 to like one 10,000 to 50,000 to
300,000 to 500,000 jobs like What what you're in.
So it's like You can do that. Yeah, that's all I have.
As soon as I say like, my wife knows this.
As soon as I come from when I go, you can do that.
Yeah, we're gonna do something right.
Like, because as soon as I know it's possible.
Yeah. Everything changes.
Right? Like that.
That's all that we need is human beings.
That's why we've come so far. Yeah.
Right. You see a company become a
unicorn in two years. People go.
You can do it in two years. Yeah.
You see a unicorn be kind of company or a company coming
unicorn in the year, right? It happens all the time as human
beings. All we got to know It's possible
as soon as was Roger Bannister. Whoever was broke the
four-minute mile. Yeah, like 18, people broke it
like right after they were like it's possible, right?
So, to me, once it's possible, that's where I go.
Okay. I can do it.
Yeah, right. I don't need anything else.
I don't need data. I don't need science.
I don't need a lot of people need like, okay.
What is the probability that I can do it?
And what percentage of people can do it if I do it.
Yeah. Like I don't need any of that.
Any one story? You get it, right?
So and that's like, I think that's how we got this far as.
Like, people always ask me like, well, how many people have done
it? I don't care.
What do I do? They say, because all, you know,
it's because people think I also had that same thought, right?
I mean, looking back, I have a podcast and has about 60
episodes a year ago, 10 years ago, I would have never dreamed
that. I always listen to podcast.
I never thought I could do that, but it all, it only takes one
step. Yet, people don't take that
first step, right? That's the difficulty there.
Like a lot of people are doing it.
It's not for me, I'm not that lucky.
I could never be that person yet.
The only thing that you need to do is try to take that first
step and probably be consistent with it.
Because at some point you will get what you deserve 100%.
And I think the fear of taking that first step is, is what
keeps so many people write like, yeah, and I get it crap.
Yeah, I can do it. I get it.
Yeah, there was a time I was going to go in and negotiate my
salary and I looked on Google and said, you know you can get
three to five percent increase. I wasn't making 50 Cals going to
go ask for 54 53, thousand dollars.
Yeah. That was my big Revelation.
Exactly. And just before I was going I
went to talk to my friend who started on the same day as me.
I'm like, hey, you know, it's been our one-year, we're going
to obviously like ask for salary increases.
I'm like I'm going to ask for three to five percent, right?
Because that's what Google says he goes.
I'm asking for a fee. 2% increase as like, sorry what?
Yeah, and he goes. Yep, I'm asking for 75k and I
want stocks. And I was like what?
I'm so stupid. Yeah, exactly.
I go back. I'm like, I go into the meeting.
I'm like, I want 73 thousand dollars because I knew I was
going to ask her 75. Mm.
Yeah. I don't want to still need to
talk. Exactly.
And they gave me 60,000. So I got a 20% increase instead
of 3%. Yeah, you can ask why six
asking. Like, if I had asked for 54, did
gladly, yeah, be 54 53, right? But I got a The percent increase
anxiety because I spoke to somebody and they expanded my
mind and went this is how much we brought in, this is what
we've done. This is what we've accomplished
in a year and I was like, you're absolutely right, yeah?
Right. And it so it's not fair like
that, right? I don't think the world is fair,
but you do need to kind of take control of your destiny way.
It is your life, it is also your future.
So I have those conversations right?
Break that taboo because in Holland, it's very much taboo.
To talk about salary. I do.
I ask it and I'm like, if you're not comfortable with it, don't
tell me this is, this is my deal and we have that conversation,
right? Because the only one that gets
better of it is yourself. And the people that you talk
about, right? Breaking that taboo and making
it transparent removes, the power.
That is there removes the inequality, that is absolutely
there. Either within an organizations
across organizations and that's the only way to get out of this
Gap because having that gap between kind of what Supposed to
earn that. What you think you should earn?
It's way too big. It is curious that it is that
big. Yeah I think every major
Revolution that has happened in history started with two people.
Talking exactly right? The simplest solution.
You look at anything where the power structures had to like
fall down for people to have better lives.
Yeah, there's two people going, like, I'm not okay with this and
then talk to you about it. So what I do is I tell my
people, I double my salary, Every first then they go.
Whoa, that's shocking. Yeah.
And then they they inevitably tell me there.
So I probably know 40 or 50 people salaries if and I also
know that like, 200 people salaries from the people who
helped. So, when someone goes like, Oh
I'm trying to go into this role. I'm like you can make to order K
and then like well how do you know?
I know one guy that does that but it hasn't but the same
experiences you, right? So you but everything that
starts or that actually reshapes Structures and gives people more
quality starts with two people talking and going, hey, we
should probably do something about this, all right?
And now you have like, a whole movement, right?
Exactly. I'm glad it's happening,
honestly, like, I've always been happy with my salary, like, I've
been very, very, very, very fortunate though, right?
And I appreciate, and I thank all of my previous bosses.
So, I actually have no complaints.
Like, I never complained about, like, Like, even Shopify.
Like, I love my salary here, I love my job here, but I know
that I'm fortunate, right? And for people less fortunate
or, you know, not as, you know, lucky to be in great companies.
I want them to be just the feel as fortunate as I do, right?
I want them to be as happy as I am.
When I see my paycheck, I want them to be as happy as I am when
I'm, you know, logging in the morning and that's not a common
thing. So what will keep fighting to
get people that kind of working? Because I know it exists.
It's sad, right? That's not a common thing that
people don't wait up happy within their job.
They're either there's an imbalance in what they earn and
what they're doing. I did they love what they're
doing, but they don't think they're earning enough or their
content and they don't know what's out there or it's the
other way around. They're earning a lot.
Yeah, what they're doing. They're absolutely not
passionate about, it's weird that that's a discrepancy,
right? It should be the balance in
between. Yeah.
I think, as humans we were created to work as much as we
do. Hmm.
That's like the fundamental problem is if you go back about
a million years. Yeah.
We were gathering. We were moving around.
We were sharing everything. Yeah.
There is no. Like, it was like, ask need
laces, right? Yeah.
You could live in, don't say, stay on the beach for three
months if you wanted to, and, you know, do whatever you want,
right? It was in the past, like what?
Maybe 10,000 years, right? Like things started to really
pick up and everyone started to really work and then in the past
like maybe two three hundred years where I went really crazy,
right? But I think some people like
finding that, you know, post some people call it, IT guy, I
call it, you know, fulfillment and purpose in your work.
Yeah, it's very hard because work wasn't created for us.
It was created for companies to solve problems, Ryan and for
capitalism to move forward, it wasn't created for the
happiness. Like, we are business
transactions on a spreadsheet. Literally, as every employee is
all pecs. X-ray.
Like, it's part of the, uh, our budget, right?
Yeah, we're builds its for the longest time.
What was it called? Human Resources?
Yeah, right. Like just like any other
resource, right? So it's called what it actually
is. It was called what it is, right?
Like and we make the mistake of going, you know?
They should care. Like no, you are relying on a
budget sheet. So now what you need to do is
make yourself a priority Right? And you have the relationship
with your company that your company has with you.
Yeah, this is a transaction, exactly fundamentally.
This is not Mom and Dad, send you money because they love you,
right? Like you come in.
You give me work. I pay you every two weeks every
month, right? And so you must put yourself
first because they put themselves first.
If there's we saw it happening. Coinbase was doing all these
layoffs. Yeah, in May.
The coinbase executives had sort of 1.2 billion dollars in stocks
to fund their, I mean, the Sea of coinbase.
Bought a hundred million dollar house.
Exactly, right. The layoffs were coming.
Yep. A month later.
Not even. Yeah, everyone's gone.
People are getting laid off 18% laid off.
Hundreds of offers rescinded. Well guess what?
He took care of himself. Yeah it's not right in my eyes.
Okay. I'm and I speak from my own
opinions only but That's what happens.
The problem is, if you have unrealistic expectations of
companies, you will be let down. I understand this transaction
fundamentally, right? So when I wake up in the
morning, I understand that at any point shop, if I can come
and say you no longer need this business unit, And I understand
that at any point, my paycheck can be done.
Yeah. Now we pray that things like
that, don't have those but I've had it happen, right?
Twice already in my in my very short six-year career.
My first job, your boss walks in and goes we are out of money.
You're all laid off my second job.
Six months in by CEO. Goes were building a brand new
team, you're fired, right? I was like, okay, amazing.
Like this is the things that can happen and guess what you are
replaced within a week? Yeah.
So I just This week, I was telling my team here, is what it
is not going to be written on your Tombstone.
When you die. Number one sales.
Rep won't be written anywhere. So so you got to understand that
is more important that you play your role as a son father,
brother friend, right? A sister a daughter, right?
Like those are more important parts of your identity than this
job is because you can be replaced at work.
You cannot be replaced at home, but what you need to do, Is
build the transaction in your favor.
Exact, that is all you need to do if you can make 150.
K instead of 75k today you love your boss.
You love your whatever you're making 75k, you say?
Hey boss, I love you, but I'm going to make 150k over there.
Let's go for dinner once a month.
Keep the relationship. Take the money, right?
But you don't have to sacrifice, right?
Like it is it is a transaction. You will be replaced within a
week. Yeah.
And it sounds harsh, right? And it's all right, truth.
It is how it is that? It is the name of the game.
Exactly. Yeah.
One of the biggest things that I learned was once you accept
things for what they are, it is so much easier to live life.
My wife is asking me every day. Tell me.
Why are you always so happy? I'm like, I've accepted said, it
will world for what it is. Yeah, exactly.
Right. We are in a climate crisis.
What am I? I going to do, am I gonna call
the Sun and be like, hey, let's comment down like the oil
companies have polluted the ozone.
Layer is gone. The the water levels are rising.
What am I going to do? I can't do anything.
Right. Like, okay, I want to make more
money. The company doesn't care about
me, right? I know who loves me.
I know who's going to be at my funeral, right?
Like I wrote my own eulogy for years ago and I went this is
what I want to be said at the end of my life.
And then I started working backwards from there.
Yeah, I've accepted everything. I was accepted that.
I'm very disorganized. I've accepted that I'm a
Visionary, but I am stuck with details.
I've accepted all of these things and so when I wake up in
the morning, I believe it. Yeah.
We're going to go through another day, right?
I've accepted the bad things happen in life, not because
people are bad, but because bad things happen.
Yeah, just like the sun's, the sun rises and the sun sets.
Bad things happen in life right assholes exist.
Right, I've accepted that one too right I had a mentor.
They used to say there's only four or five real big assholes
in the world but they they just get around a lot.
Exactly right. You know it's like okay I run
into an asshole and you must be one of the four you know like I
love that one. Yeah.
So you just change your perspective and now your whole
philosophy. Your life is a everything is a
miracle to me. Yeah, right.
I get called for very powerful Miracle, right?
I don't ask me to come speak in Orlando.
I was like, this is a miracle. I just got my first to Brand
deals. Yeah, wow.
Really cool. Well, Miracle.
But it's it's powerful, right? Because nothing changed.
It's just your mindset and your perspective, right?
That's the only thing that changed.
Not On the things, you cannot control.
That's how you get a burnout. That's how you get the press.
That's how your mind, shifts towards, not what it's supposed
to shift, but focusing on what you can control.
I then acting on that. Taking that first step, taking
that risk, because sure, sometimes you need risk.
If you want great reward, it needs a little wristlet there as
well. It doesn't have to be safe, but
you are in control. If you accept that.
I think that just clears up your mind a lot.
Yes, 100%. And I think more people just
need to accept, like, you control the things, you can
control, everything else, you accept exactly.
So for me, okay, I'm I was born Nigerian, I had a Nigerian
passport I sent to Canada. I guess why will my parents sent
me here? And they believe there was going
to be a great fit for me and, you know, give me a better life
and all that stuff. And I almost dropped out twice
and all that. But once I understood the
vision, like they wanted me to have a citizenship here to set
my kids up to have a better life and they were set up to have a
good life, but they said, you know, their kids up to have a
better life. They just wanted it to get
better generation. My Generation, right?
Yeah and once I accepted like, okay I'm gonna have to make some
sacrifices to make this happen. I mean it took me 12 years to
get here. I missed 10 birthdays with my
mom. 10 birthdays with my Dad. Yeah, 10 birthdays with my
sister's right? Or my sister and then ten with
my like I think probably seven with my brother right?
Like I'm missing. Yeah very important.
I'm going okay this is the sacrifice that has to be made so
that I can catch the next 40. Yeah.
Like a cat. The next 50, right?
And and we don't, we don't die young out of stress, right?
Exactly. And I and once I accepted, that
is like, okay. What's the plan right?
Same thing here is like, I don't want to work until I'm 65.
I'm sorry, it's not gonna happen.
Yeah. Right.
I'm not going to work till I'm 35.
I'm like, when I say work, I mean corporate.
It's not going to happen. 27 right now.
I'm not doing it. Okay, I'm already tired.
Yeah, right so once I accepted like okay I wasn't built for the
workforce, right. For something else, right?
That's when I started building all my backup plans, right?
I got a little note on my phone, it's called exits strategy, and
I build these little businesses, right?
And when they catch fire, I doubled down on them Catch Fire.
I doubled down on them and if they don't catch fire, which a
lot of them, haven't I just shut him down, right?
But I've accepted that here's my my biggest phrase.
When I coach people, I start a business.
Here's the phrase that keeps me going for the first year I'm
probably wrong. I'm probably wrong about my
offering. I'm probably wrong about what
people want and because I think I'm probably wrong, I'm open to
every bit of feedback. I'm open to every thing that can
make this better because I'm probably wrong in the first way.
So so now when I start to see real momentum like we're seeing
300% growth in our company. Year-over-year were your rear?
I wear the 30 or 300 percent growth?
Yeah. And every year I'm going.
Hey, we're probably wrong, right?
Like we're probably right for like where we are right now, but
to get to a million, we're probably wrong in our strategy.
That are offering and how it works.
I go back and we rebuild it every year, rebuild it right.
But, but it's like, I've accepted all of these things
interested in now, you, you just, you just have the best.
I have the best time every day. Like, I love hearing that, you
know, it's like literally I'm driving.
My wife is like, why are you still smiling?
Like, we just lost the what areas I know, but that's part
of, it's like traffic lights, exist.
Yeah. Catch a couple Reds.
Exactly what changed it would say, nothing tastes like this
is. This is part of it.
All right. So I think now I can I can kind
of go day to day and I just catch all the Miracles.
I'm just write it all the Miracles I catch them like this
is amazing. Yeah right and now you just have
like this outlook on life. I'm barely stressed, it's not
because things aren't stressful. I have enough.
Stress about. But that's a rabbit hole.
You don't want to go down exactly that only lead to
darker. Darker thoughts, basically,
exactly? Yeah, I really love that
mindset, right. Taking it step by step, even in
a business sense, staying humble and being like I'm probably
wrong. Meaning you're open to feedback,
right? Meaning.
You're open to be challenged. Meaning you'll open the figure
it out together, right? Because you don't know
everything, you're never gonna know everything.
People are always going to know something that you don't just
need to be open. And and we need to have that
mindset to be able to embrace it and to be better because of that
there. Exactly.
I still had a thought when it comes to kind of the job market
right now. Also, the tech sector because we
had the huge dip when it came to 2020 in the pandemic, right?
Layoffs, back then then it was a huge.
Boom, companies wanted, especially Tech Talent from
everywhere, right? Everyone was looking at, kind of
the professional or the experienced professional lots of
X years of experience, right about that.
We're just out of school. Like struggling to find a job,
which is No one focused on that market segment.
And right now, I'm seeing it go more towards kind of economic
crisis and resignation as well. If you are looking to get
another job, right? You already have getting your
foot in the door which I think has a lot to do with networking
and what's out there for yourself, your personal brand,
then the rounds that you have to go through, right?
And that varies from hard skills, to actual technical,
tests to soft skills, depends on a company, and then you have
that Every negotiation part, right?
Actually communicating. This is what I want.
This is what I need and accompany pressing down on that
as hard as they can. Yeah, I really think but those
are go ahead. Yeah, I think the network a lot
of people underestimate, right, getting your foot in the door.
And they can do a lot already, like coming out of University,
get your LinkedIn up and running connect with people ask
questions. A lot of people are open to
sharing their knowledge. I love that everything is
online. You can figure out everything
you can connect with a lot of people just doing that will get
you your network and then it's those other steps, right?
When you have your foot in the door, you need to be able to
erase whatever interview you have.
And I've so I've always seen it as a numbers game.
I'm never going to ace the first one, it's another scale.
I also need to get better at that and then you have those
difficult conversations towards the end.
Yeah. When you help people get their
next opportunity, right? Get them to where they need to
be, or where they want to be. What do you focus on the most?
I mean, there's the number one. Focus would have to be on
communicating your value because communicating your value
transcends, all of those steps, right?
Like so if you think about like meeting someone for the first
time, right? Like how many times have you met
someone and you just never want to meet them again, right?
They didn't communicate that. Any value then made you go like
I have to keep this relationship.
Yeah, right. And when you go into an
interview, You write like a lot of times the best candidate.
In quotes. The best candidate is the one
that can communicate, why they are the best?
Yeah. Even if they are not the best,
right? And oftentimes is not the actual
best candidate on paper or in terms of skill, that gets the
job is the best Communicator. Interesting, right.
And so, we spend so much time like, that's why we do mock
interviews. We spent so much time.
Helping them. Communicate, how do you say it?
Yeah. How you say it is more.
And what you're saying, right? Your partner is trying to do
your stomping around the house. You're obviously very upset,
your partner comes and goes. What's wrong with you?
Yeah, you might explode, right? But they come and say hey is
everything okay? Yeah.
Same Inquisition, exactly. Right Said differently.
So it's how do you communicate your story, right?
They ask you in the interview tell me about yourself, you go
while I graduated as a bachelor with a bachelor in engineering,
I worked as a this as at that and very passionate about.
You know, seeing efficiency coming to the workplace.
I don't know. Anything new about you.
I read that on your resume, exactly.
This is reading it. Yeah, yeah.
So will we tell people, tell me about yourself, here's my tell
you about yourself. Hey, my name is Toby, which is
actually a short version of my full name.
Although what Toby lava. I'm from Nigeria, spent the
first eight years there and then we moved to Belgium Atlanta
Tennessee back to Nigeria Hamilton Ottawa Toronto France
back to Ottawa and I've been to 13 schools in my life which is
essentially set me up for or anything customer-facing because
I've learned how to build rapport very quickly.
I'm the first of three siblings. So I am very responsible.
I got to take care of them and growing up.
I wanted to be a professional soccer player, and when I was
17, I went to England try that in Stamford Bridge and West Ham
and got into an academy, but didn't quite work out.
So came back, they talk right now.
I'm walking them through this, like Journey.
Yeah, right. And they're going.
Okay, first sibling responsible, okay, wanting to play
professional soccer gun to an academy competitive, okay?
And here's the the magic I've saying, one thing They're
picking up their own ideas from it.
Yeah. And because it's their idea not
yours. So, I could come in and say I'm
very competitive and very responsible, and very adaptable
because I've grown up in all these environments that's me
trying to get my DNA into their head.
Yeah, you have to sell it. I'm telling stories and they're
creating their own ideas about me.
And now when they go and Pitch because the decision to hire you
is hardly hardly made on the call.
It's made in the back room somewhere that you don't have
access to his hidden discussion. I'm be exactly.
Right. So by the time they go into that
back room, everything they're saying about me is their idea.
Here's why I think he's going to be amazing.
Yeah. And now you get the job offer.
Exactly. Right.
So it's about helping it's all about communication.
It is all about communication, everyone that has ever bought
into my career and help me was because I communicated something
worth helping. Exactly.
So that's that's like where we spend.
Like, even when we started our whole thing was run, the teach
people how to communicate value to employers and that's why our
mission is We want to build the most employable candidates in
the world. Yeah, why.
Because the most employable candidates always win.
Boom. Recession, doesn't matter.
Most employable candidates are getting hired.
It's that simple. We don't have company
Partnerships. We have a 90% success rate.
How is that possible? Most employable candidates.
Yeah. Right.
It's as simple as that. I'll be able to communicate your
value. Yeah, it's it's weird.
Right? Because I've heard communication
and I've heard a lot of value attached to it.
Yet people Overlook it, right? It's a weird thing that this
thing that is so simple, that is how we communicate.
It's what you do on a day-to-day that is often so much
overlooked. The things that you say, I don't
think you ever get feedback on what you're actually saying.
If you were like God, they brush it off or they give you advice.
They're like, I should, I would do this.
They never tell you. Why am I speaking too quickly?
Does that make you feel rushed? Am I saying the right things?
What are you thinking? Right now?
Like that is the feedback that you need to get better at
communicating, but that is never within your academic journey
within your educational Journey, may be in giving presentations,
how welcome you are celebrating a little bit but it's never on
the Forefront. I yeah, I don't think I've ever
owned it. I've ever trained it.
Through this podcast would be the only A, I would say I've
gotten better at communicating, but man, that is a huge
realization there. Yeah, I mean, I had one realtor.
That used to say anything you want to get good at anything in
the world. You want to get good at study,
it practice it and teach it. Yeah.
And you will become amazing, right?
So long before I was Landing, dream jobs and interviews.
I was teaching it. Yeah, right.
And I was learning. Okay, this is how I say it.
I mean, I have to say my tell me about yourself so many times
while building three skills. Yeah.
Right. By the time I was Interview it
was like magic. It was role of butter.
So smooth. Right.
But but like over and over and over and over again.
So I think that that communication piece is I
remember like 2012, I used to watch this guy, Jim Rohn.
It was like a five-hour YouTube video and watch it.
Like, Every month. This guy was silk, smooth
Communicator. I mean, the audience was there
the Cadence when the jokes happened?
How the jokes were? Said the tone.
Like, if you ever, go watch, Jim Rohn, and you come back to this
podcast, you will literally see what I'm like, he influenced how
I communicate is that was easily the best Communicator.
I may have ever come across. It was so, so easy to follow.
Yeah. And I thought it was like
amazing because he could get the idea all the way across it was
like, in Your Heart. By the time you were leaving,
right? And that was something I then
started like practicing. Like, I would do these two hour
talks to my couch, whenever they friends are, literally just like
pretend there's a thousand people there and like, when do I
say the joke and how much energy do I put now?
And when do I get really passionate?
And when do I slowed down? And I would go like, literally
an hour or two. Like whatever message was on my
heart and I just go over it and over it.
And then I started getting into these like situations where
people like hey come talk and it looked amazing but there's like
I mean this started in 2012. Yeah.
Right. But now it looks really, really
good, right? But that's what will happen with
anything. You put your mind to write and
communication is one of those things worth putting in my two.
Because if you can get your ideas from your head, to
people's hearts, you are Dan's up.
We will exactly that one stuffable.
Yeah, it is the single thing. The single skill.
I completely agree with you that will make the difference, right?
Yes. A lot of things will make the
difference. Sure.
But this one shines through in whatever you're doing, it also
translates throughout whatever you doing humans are
multifaceted. They're always going to do
different things. We're always going to have
different passions, different Hobbies.
But the thing that is out there that is, how do you say that any
It's always there. I guess I'll stick to that is
communication. I'd that will be inherent in,
whatever you do until there's a time where we can communicate,
not through what we say, but what we think, then we need to
fix that. We need to work on that.
But what we have right now is communication through words, so
make sure that it's a smooth as it can be.
Yeah, come on. I love the way this conversation
flowed. I never actually told you the
episode already started recording, but as you can tell,
we've been talking for a while. So yeah, I hope you enjoyed it
as well. No, it was amazing guy.
I is one of the best experiences I've had because I didn't
realize that it started until I looked up and I was like yeah
we've definitely started recording.
Yeah. Sorry about that.
Made it like so much easier know.
It makes it so much easier to because you're always like you
come in with like all these preset things.
Yeah but this was like a lot more natural so I really enjoyed
this. Awesome.
Thank you for saying that. We'll put all Toby's links to
Social in description below. Check him out.
Let him know. You.
You came from our podcast and we'll see you on the next one.