Hi everyone. My name is Patrick Akil and for
today's episode, we covered resiliency, as well as cyber
security. The more resilient you are.
The more adaptable you'll be, which is exactly what you need
when it comes to cybersecurity. But how do you grow that skill?
That is resiliency joining me today.
Is nyota. Gordon was a resiliency and
adaptability coach, and I love the energy.
She brings to the table. I'll put all the links to our
socials in the description below.
Check her out. And with that being said, enjoy
the episode. I've noticed that when I when I
work out first and foremost, I am my mind is clear.
And when I do not have that, it's it's a bit cluttered,
especially in the morning, so I miss it.
When I don't do it, I tell people, my walk is not for me.
My walk is for them, I'd like that.
Yeah, makes me a better person like I'm just better.
I'm just better like when I'm walking.
I'm so smart like I'm so crispy like good but when I don't have
that walk I'm like I don't know whatever you like.
Yeah, exactly. I guess is answer.
Is I recognize that as well. I catch myself.
And I'm like, man, I was sharp that morning like that was some
good stuff. Yeah, for sure.
I was like I'm streaming God because I'm not that smart like
you. You know, like fairly you are.
You can't say I've no doubt smart, but then still do that.
Yeah, I do. When you're streaming like that,
do you like, what are like, have you ever like, listen back to
yourself? Like when you were in flow,
you're like, what like what is this Village?
So what do you do on a day-to-day basis right now?
Is it like full into cyber security?
Is it more like consulting or yeah?
Right. Now I'm kind of I'm actually
I've been in the Consulting space, working more with
one-on-one with people when they're doing like getting their
resiliency together. Yeah, and I'm actually
considering going back to work. Okay.
Wait, hear me out here. Because people like, what work.
So I'm actually considering to go back to a nine-to-five
because I don't have the conversation or the energy of
the workplace, okay? So I don't you know as a
consultant I still don't have that experience as what my peers
and my managers and my direct reports are experiencing okay,
interesting and so I can't, I can't get it like I know of it
but I can't. I can't, I can't fully
translate. I think how to fully serve
everyone and I'm not in it. Yeah.
When you're on the outside. Yeah.
So I'm considering going back to work, just so I can, you know,
present The Full Experience so I can like serve all the way.
Yeah, we just flew, right? For my view then because I work,
I do a 9 to 5, but then I am in a consultancy firm.
So I do go to clients and I do kind of get both sides ish.
Obviously more of the managerial stuff within my own company with
regards to the unit and quarterly meeting stuff like
that. And then the client side is
actually the work that we do. But then in your case, you can't
do that. You can't go to a client and
like be part of in it seemed that way or you miss more of
the, I guess, the business side of things.
I miss more of the workplace Shenanigans.
Yeah. You know and it's the workplace
shenanigans that fees or Or do not feed into the productivity.
It's the workplace shenanigans that builds relationships and
builds Rapport, right? It's the, you know, the we all
hate this manager together that pulls us together, you know, it
that workplace Dynamic is also part of your, in cybersecurity
framework. It's also part of your systems.
And so if people how people engage with each other, on a
day-to-day basis, also, Lex, you know, within the workplace
system. So and so I can't that
Shenanigans part. I can't can't get it from, you
know, over here. I get what you mean.
I think I miss it a lot. Especially when you laid out
like that because I recognized I had a lot of it especially
pretty covid. And then since everyone went
remote that has slowed down also people left so probably that has
a lot to do with it. But that kind of that bond that
you form when you're in an office, Probably a lot of days a
week, just talking to each other in and out of work on and off at
work about work and not about work.
I think that's the one I was seeking, but you form those
bonds way, more easily than remote, because remote you have
to forcefully be like, okay, I'm gonna talk and usually, when you
do talk, it's efficient and it's as fast as possible.
And it's only about work. You would have to go outside of
your routine and be like, no, no, no.
This is a call to be like, hey, how are you doing?
And let's get to know each other.
Otherwise. It doesn't happen.
Yeah. And I just felt like that that
Dynamic is important. You know, it's important and so
I can understand why, you know, companies are like no you need
to come to work. So I understand that.
But then I understand from the employee perspective, like I'm
more productive at home. Exactly.
Why do I have to spend all of this gas to get to work, right?
Like so, I understand both sides, but from that employer
perspective, you're missing something in the productivity,
you're missing. Something in the full experience
of what the workplace can be because the people aren't there.
Exactly. I think it mostly there's a lot
of reports that come out and they're like up as activity has
been fine and turnover has decreased and stuff like that
when we went fully remote over, when we allow it to companies or
people to work from anywhere. And I'm like, yeah, but you're
just kind of one case like whoa, what happens with smaller
companies that that connection is is way more important than
when you're humongous because then already that distance is
way, way more prevalent. So then if it's remote, maybe
it's not as big of a deal but I really appreciate being next to
colleagues and I love that we have the option of balancing it
out, right? I can be in office or out of
office for my needs right? And for what the team needs or
for when we have a new person and We on board thumb.
It's way better if we have the option to go into an office
because yeah otherwise that that Bond never actually fully
establishes and then you're just yeah just like video game
friends. I used to have those.
It's kind of the same. Yeah, it's like my master my
friends or right? Like and and you miss, we're
tribal right? We're tribal.
We're meant to be together. Yeah.
And yes, this is a good. Billion but nothing nothing
compares to, you know, the real thing being able to yeah, like
feel that energy of another person.
I'm like, actually, like, feeling the energy of it, you
know, not just through the screen so you just the workplace
benefits. Gosh, I'm going on.
Wait, you're you said, you're recording the record saying
that, you know, coming to work, right?
It just makes for a better work experience because you're
spending time at work anyway. It may well be it may as well be
and maybe there's a hybrid solution right but that in
person it's important it's important to me.
Yeah I agree. I mean I hope when you said
hybrid solution I hope that's going to be the eventual thing
we move towards right now. You still have the feeling of
shenanigans but then in kind of your own home either in a
virtual environment or whatever solution we come up next.
But jumping in a car jumping in public transport.
In my case, for an hour to go back and forth, which is two
hours. Yeah, I can't believe I used to
do that. You know, your, when you look
back on things that you used to do like what or why don't I do
that anymore, right? So that that looking back,
that's why that that whole hindsight 20/20 like I could you
can see. So clearly, like why, why would
I do that? Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I mean, the future is here and we're moving on.
We'll see you wouldn't you do it again though?
Because they'll slowly erode away the freedoms of remote
working and you'll just be back in the office pretty soon.
We'll see, we'll see. We'll see.
I think the tech industry especially the people have a lot
of power and if the people want to work remote, some companies
will offer that. And those people will Trend
towards the companies that offer that, it's a nice benefit.
A company being like what we can actually pay Stellar salaries
but you can work from anywhere. Which means any country pick any
country. That be cool.
As long as they have that fast internet connection, the end.
This meeting is exactly that. A dial in because otherwise,
you're lost somewhere. It was wondering.
So your I looked you up on LinkedIn.
It says, something like resiliency coach.
What, what does that mean to you?
When we're talking resilience? Oh man.
I look at resiliency as an opportunity to be the best
version of ourselves. And what I mean by that is we're
strong and agile, we're able to listen and speak.
Yeah, you know, we're able to take a punch Dodger punch and
deliver a punch, right? It's not about being able to
keep getting kicked when you're down because that's not it.
It's not about being able to take on a lot of pressure from
home. A lot of pressure from work, a
lot of pressure from friends, a lot of pressure from family
finances. It's not just that it's being
able to receive those, you know, understand the okay.
I'm having these challenges at home and are translating, you
know, and Bringing these issues to work with me, so it's being
able to recognize that and like, okay, well what can I do about
that? How do I Repair myself in this
moment. Yeah, you know, how do I Stitch
myself up? You know, you're still going to
have that scar where you're human, but then you're able to
like not go back to that place and then move forward in like,
no, no, no. And then remember, you know, the
last time I wasn't getting sleep, you know, four nights in
a row, you know, I was falling apart at home at work and in my
relationship. So, that's what it's like about
being resilient. It's about Being able to learn
being able to grow and then be able to mindful.
We understand where you are, where you are in that moment.
Yeah, so it's so I think you know, been resilient.
It's like it's a tree in the wind, right?
Yeah. Planet your agile you know you
can dodge, you can flow. That's that's what I feel.
Resiliency is it's a verb. Yeah.
It's very interesting because I mean, it might Sound kind of, I
don't know what the English word is for this too prideful, but I
do see myself as a resilient but I recognized times where I
wasn't right and I also recognize that not everyone is
like that. I think it has a lot to do with
how you were raised or the things that you faced in your
life because there's a lot of challenges that I went through
through my upbringing and I think they have made me more
resilient and I think everyone kind of has their personal
experience with that in so far that I think.
Julian see is a skill that we all can get kind of better at
except besides life experiences or maybe like meditation and
mindfulness. I don't know how you would kind
of cultivate or grow that skill because it to me seems very much
experience-based Well it's a decision, you know like anything
else, you know you talk about, you know if the rough parts of
growing up or the rough parts of adulting, right.
You know, the rough parts of being, you know, in that toxic
work environment and so we get to decide and I think that's
where the resiliency part also comes from we get to decide
whether we're going to use. That experience to judge and you
know be angry and you know oh I had a poor upbringing so you
need to feel sorry for me or I had a bad upbringing so you
should understand that. I mean well we get to decide
every day who we are. I'm a different person from just
this morning. I'm a different person from the
time we got on this call because we get to engage With each
other. So what we get to decide to do
is, are we going to be better than we were five minutes ago,
right? Are we going to be better than
we were a moment ago and I think that's what feeds into that
space that skill of being resilient of being open to grow,
being open, to change, and being open to other people's ability
to grow and change in the same circles that we overlap with
each other. I think it's a decision.
Everything is a decision. Yeah, it's very interesting.
I, I've never heard those words. Like, I came from a certain
upbringing so you should treat me like this or I'm just a mean
person, because that's who I am. So be mindful about that.
I, maybe my personality. I stick to myself and I'm like,
I choose how to react to stuff. I'm not going to force other
people to reaction on Me based on who I am.
But I do recognize what you're saying that other people don't
have that, except I have no clue where that comes from.
Is it a piece of the Untamed? Unknown that I know and they
don't or is it like why why do people kind of project their own
insecurities and stuff on others in that way?
I do I do believe part of it is the people that you you decide
to hang around. Also.
Right like my dad, I grew up in my dad's smoked my whole life.
Yeah. Like an elementary I smell like
cigarettes like my whole life. Even when my dad came to visit
me in 2003 when I lived in the Netherlands, you know, we're at
the airport and my dad is outside of the airport smoking
when I go to pick him up. Yeah.
But I don't smoke, right? That could have went either way.
Well my dad smoked my whole life, so I smoke.
Yeah. But it also is like my dad
smoked my whole life. I'm certainly not smoking.
Exactly. And that's what you know.
It's a decision. I don't want to smell like
cigarettes. Yeah, yeah me neither I like
that. We have the decision.
First of all, the decision making process that we get to
decide for ourselves, right? That we have the freedom to do.
So in most cases problem is, when it's out of our control, a
lot of the times we still can fixate on it.
Right? Because I love being in control
of my own stuff. If something Happens and I don't
have control over it, but I do feel either attached to it or
accountable or responsible, right?
Because you, if you have a great amount of responsibility, if you
feel responsible or have that feeling easily, you will get
attached to something which is out of your control.
And it'll, it might bring you down if you choose to let it.
And a lot of people, a lot of people choose the let it, which
is not conscious, right? It's just being part of the
day-to-day, I think. Yeah, and I did all I can
visualize is like you're standing there talking.
And then out of nowhere, the person you're talking to like
sweets your leg. You just go down here.
Like what? I thought we were cool, right?
Yeah. And like, that's how we are in
situations. You're like, you know, I thought
I was have, I thought I was a great employee.
I thought I was performing well and then next thing you know you
like, you know, or care anymore. You're like, wait, what
happened? Yeah.
Exactly. Everything comes falling down.
Yeah, life life, right? Will sweep your leg, but the
ability to be able to You know, people like it's not even about
just hopping right back up. Like, laying down there for a
second. Be like, wait, what happened?
Realization like right here? Like oh, I wasn't doing a great
job. I'm not a great employee.
Now, have an opportunity to, you know, get some skills stack,
some skills, phone, a friend, get a therapist and I whatever
you know, but that that point of like life will sweep your leg.
Yeah. And it does, that's what life
does it sweeps? Her leg.
Just to think about a lot of times that happened for sure,
but they still, it's right. If we talk about building
resiliency but we To decide lot of things, right?
So you can decide if it affects you or not, but it's still to
me, it boils down to a lot of experience, right?
Because a lot of things you have to experience before you're
like. Okay.
So this is what I first of all did and then you can reflect on
that and be like well am I happy with that or am I going to
change it or try to change it in the future?
You know, and you're talking about upbringing.
So like my dad used to say that my dad, you know, they had the
show Kids Say the Darndest Things know my dad said the
darndest things, but one of the things, I mean, there are so
many things. Like, my dad was was very
athletic and I wasn't, which is weird, cause I was in the
military for a long time. He had to teach me how to run.
He had to teach me how to do push-ups.
I did When it has stuff in high school like I was, you know,
class president and, you know, future Business Leaders of
America. Like, I did that kind of stuff
in high school, like I wasn't athletic at all, but my dad
would say you have to, you have to, you can run back or you can
walk back, but you have to get back.
Exactly you choose, how your right?
Your car is over there. You, you have to get back.
And so in that decision, are you going to run?
Are you going to walk? Are you going to crawl?
But whatever it is, you have to get back.
So that process of getting back that you can go back with joy.
You can go back with unhappiness.
You can go back with bitterness. Yeah, you can go back, skipping,
but you got to get back to the car.
So you just decide you get to decide like make it miserable or
make it make it awesome. But you got to get back to the
car. Yeah, that's very interesting.
It made me think of because I am writing a bit more, so I'm also
writing things that have happened to me my past, but I
was very Junior in operations and I completely messed up.
So I destroyed something in Productions.
I'll spare you the details but then obviously, I was trying to
fix it before anyone would notice and all of a sudden then
my phone rang and yeah, that feeling of dread you get and you
really don't want to pick up the phone.
That was me in that moment and I was Actually, the thing I wanted
most was to just run away and forget, it, ever happened.
I was like, that's never going to fly it.
Like, I have to, I have to actually face this phone call.
And this person on the other end, this is something I have to
do and I can choose how to how to combat I can be.
Like, I don't know what happened.
That wasn't me even though the absolute.
I mean someone's calling me for a reason.
So I picked up the phone. I was like, yeah, this is this
is what happened. Like I completely fucked up.
I owned up to it because I thought that would be the best
way of confronting it right face.
Seing the mess I had made and luckily really luckily, I was in
an environment where that was safe where they were like, okay,
I'll fix it. I'll swing by later and I was
like, what kind of punishment am I going to get?
And they were like, nothing nothing, right?
Because everyone makes mistakes and that was such a relief.
I learned that on really early in my career and I do my best to
pay it forward when it happens to someone because it will
happen to someone or to myself again, right?
We're not made to be perfect. We make mistakes.
We get back up and we learn and continue because that's all we
can do. And look at that compassion in
that empathy, you know, in the workplace.
Yeah. And so imagine what that does to
and for the Loyalty of the employees, you know the try
right? Because now you're like, you
know, I'm going to always try for them because they could have
easily fire me in that moment. Yep.
Right. And it's the fact that you're
like I'm gonna I am going to face this.
Like it's the it's Only way it was, the only option only way it
never gets better and never gets better.
Like if you wait or Autumn tomorrow or it never gets
better. Exactly.
I mean how many times have have a messed up, right?
I can't even count. I'm a person.
But when you when you look back, you know, on those experiences
like now you're you know you're going to use that as part of
your leadership as part of, you know how you engage with other
people, you know, giving people Grace right?
Yeah, no. But I'm saying like oh keep
messing up because we know that will get Christ but that That's
not it but the fact that you know, like people know that
you're human and people want to work for you and with you, when
you're that kind of person. Yeah, yeah, it helps create that
Unity. That you hopefully want both as
a company as well as an employee, right, being part and
doing something that that is greater than you or that you're
doing with other people. Because that's the only way to
do it, right? We need collaboration and as you
say, we're kind of tribal people.
We're animals and we're social animals.
And we want that social part in whatever we're doing, Yeah, like
I want you to laugh. When I want you to laugh.
I want you to be sad with me when I want you to be sad for
me. I want you to, you know what,
I'm trying to figure something out.
I want you to also be trying to help me figure it out and I want
to help you figure it out, right?
Like I want to enjoy and enjoy as a heavyweight, right?
But I want to, at least learn, you know, from the experiences
when I'm with other people. Like I want girls to collide,
right? And then I want to take a little
Ittle bit of what I got from you and, and knowingly, or
unknowingly past that on the goodness of that person to the
next person. But we also get to be mindful of
like, are you passing on just the good things?
Are you passing the bad bad things also?
Yeah, exactly. And now, I'm reflecting more and
more. I'm a project because I'm a
consultant and now I'm working on a project which is more about
myself. And now I recognize You're
saying that I don't get to take from other people, take his,
maybe not the best word but have that collaboration with other
people and then pay it forward to others by Having learned in
by having had that experience. I really like working in a team
really, like learning from each other teaching, others as well
because that you get better because of that.
And having that, that form a friendship and collaboration
that you otherwise wouldn't have I'll go to work often like I
was, you know, I'm retired. I get, you know, disability and
everything so I really don't have to go to work, right?
Yeah. But I was in this space of like,
what is wrong with me? And I got a job at Southwest
Airlines because I needed to be a part of a team.
I needed to be part of a bigger Mission, because I wasn't
working in my own business then. So I needed to be up.
Part of something I needed to be pulled and pushed in, you know,
just a part of something bigger than me, so it's super
important. You know, we may, we may not
think, you know, oh, I need to be a part of a bigger Mission,
but we need to have like something that pulls and pushes
us where the we call that our mission or purpose.
You know what God puts in you, what your parents put.
Are you what? Wherever it comes from?
Yeah, we have To have something bigger or I just what's it all
worth? Yeah.
Yeah, I completely agree. I went to a talk on dedicated
teams think last Tuesday and the single thing that stuck with me,
the most is teams that have purpose, that know what they
stand for because through that they can derive a lot of things,
right? If we really need to do this,
what are the skills we need? Once you have the skills, what
are the people we need? Because those people need to
have those skills. Why does a responsibility start
and where does it end? And does that even make sense
for the purpose that we're doing it?
For once that is clear, crystal clear to a team.
Plus, a lot of other things don't get me wrong but that's
how you get that dedicated team then as well.
And then just even sitting down at the beginning and having that
conversation to you know really reinforced that like your
opinion in this matter as your you know your feedback matters.
Like even just that you know, Being open to have this
conversation is like, is this even something that we should be
working on? Yeah, and people like, oh God.
I thought you were never so stupid.
All right. Like that part.
Also, pulls a team together and
pulls them forward. Yeah, exactly. 100%.
I mean, we talked about resiliency and I know you're big
into cyber security, but I never know how you actually got into
that space in the first place. Could you share a little bit
about how you got into that? Sure when I was in high school
we have these programs where you can go to work and you still get
a great for it. Nice.
So of course I'm going to do that because I get a great and I
get paid, it's a win-win. So I end up working at this oil
company and I worked in the Mis Department, management
Information Systems Department. So, I was like the, you know,
reception reception as I guess, but They like, with take you
through and you're like, they're talking about local area
networks and putting the computers together and Nick
cards. And I was like, what is this?
What in the world? And, and like, knowing that like
this computer is connected to this computer and it's all
connected and then, you know, we're all communicating because
these computers are connected through this little cave.
All that I plugged in I was like this is everything, this is
everything. And what's interesting is like I
wanted to be an attorney I wanted to go to law school at
the time. Okay what I was like I don't
want to go I want to do I want to do this that's awesome yeah
that's how it started it started it started there started in high
school. How did you transition into it?
specifically cybersecurity though because you could have
been like, okay, I'm gonna do systems or I'm going to work at
a data center or like could have gone anywhere but you ended up
in, in cybersecurity specifically So I ended up
joining the military. Yeah.
As a as a paralegal, you still do the law directs, I didn't
know that. So I was a paralegal for the
Army for a 13 years good but I'd already had this background of,
you know, knowing what to do with computers knowing how to I
mean, because once you get the skill of like, well first is
look at what you're doing, right?
And then you're like, then you just kind of okay, it's not
this. This, it's not that, I didn't
know all the things I learned that in high school but I was
the smart IT person in as a paralegal.
Yeah. And and so, But I also loves
doing the legal because I love like policy and procedures Sops,
like, I love that kind of, you know, I love that sort of thing.
So I was going to become a warrant officer because that
person is the IT person in the office and so it's going to
become a warrant officer. But then the fact of the matter
is, I had a really grimy boss. He was like, dis Disgusting
like, oh, man, he was grimy. Like, I had my, I got my tongue
pierced and we weren't supposed to have any of that stuff.
Are we like? I'm in the Army and he was like,
one day. He was like so Sergeant Gordon.
I haven't no Sergeant Gordon. Then I haven't seen your tongue
piercing in a while. Stick your tongue out, well,
what now? Yeah.
Who does that? That's insane.
I mean, people do that. So so I went in the hallway,
immediately forgot my piercing and decided never to be a
warrant officer and I'm leaving the entire bag.
Or? Yeah, I get the hell away from
that. Yeah, sounds like that.
And so I end up going to officer candidate school going to become
a signal officer. Okay.
And so that's communicate. Vacations.
That's, you know, using the generators to connect to the
radios to do all that. So it was it, it was all the
things, it was connecting computers, it was all the
things. It was not fun, it wasn't just,
as it was, it was just all of it.
Like, it was just all of it. And, and then I had an
opportunity to become information systems manager
officer, like you could specialize Lies in that.
And so that's what we're doing, like formation assurance and you
know, making sure the updates are on the network and you're
working at the Enterprise level and I was like I'm home order.
Yeah. So that's how it was.
Back and forth there. But uh and even I still think I
don't want to go to law school because I could I always wanted
I wanted to do it. Once I, you know, realize that
it's, you know, it and information management and cyber
security, you know, it's how it's basically, intellectual
property, you know, who does it belong to it's on the internet,
like it was on the internet. Like who like what is, what is
that mean? When it comes from a legal
perspective, Expected. What does that mean?
When someone, you know, starts a virus, you know, kind of like
how they do it the CDC and to, you know, go back and research
that to see where the origin of it was.
And then how do we prevent that or how do we reward that, you
know, so whatever that is like that still super interesting to
me. Yeah, I love how those words
eventually they can Collide, right?
Because I mean digital is become huge and then law is always
going to be there. No matter what.
What we do. And then you have that tiny
Niche. That's that's kind of cross
domain in both of those which brings it together my love.
I love that you were like the first I want to do this and then
you have the most horrible example and experience with it.
Forget that I'm going to try something else.
But when we're talking while we're talking cybersecurity,
What are the things is, I think a lot of things early on
technical wise. We're a lot more easier to
breach, but as we have matured also has an industry.
I think there's a lot of guardrails now on a technical
level, which means the only level we have left is more of
the People level which kind of ties back into resiliency that
way as well. How do those two worlds?
Kind of collide. It's like you said, so like you
bike. Okay.
So now we know that we can update our physical security,
right? We put Gates of we have you know
all kinds of alarm systems. We have, you know, cameras with
the doorbells right? We have all of these things now
and you're like okay at that together check.
Oh and I'll put a guard out there just in case right check
right. And then you're like okay so now
it's our software. Right?
To make sure that we don't have this experience again, but
sometimes you still have to have that vulnerability or that, you
know, that breach to know, oh, like let's fix our software.
Let's fix this software firewall.
So no one can get in this way again, right?
You will not come this way again?
Yeah. But that's also that means the
person has to keep a person has to also keep that software
updated. Yeah.
Right person. Oh no.
But that's okay, that's okay. Because then we still have our
routers and we still have our switches.
Oh but we still need people to maintain those routers and those
switches. Yeah, right they do what we tell
them to do, right? Stop the walls, the gates all of
that. Do they do want to tell it to do
but when it comes back to people we don't do what you tell us to
do. Well those who don't and and
sometimes we feel like doing what you tell us To do, but most
times we don't ya and it shows up in our in our infrastructure
is it shows up in, you know, getting socially engineered
again and again and again you know, even when I was talking to
one of my friends yesterday and he was like he was telling me he
read an article that even when people get our cyber security
training, right? Our Spending that we have every
year we have to have it, you're clicking the, you know, the
answers already, right? And then they later on in the
day, you know, your it department.
They send out that they send out that phishing email, right,
where they can track to see who's clicking.
The links is opening a little bait boarding, doing all of
that. People still click.
Yeah, people still forward. Even if they just came out of
the training, they still click that's crazy.
And that's one that we're monitoring.
That's one that you see. So people aren't necessarily
learning from the training. Yeah, right.
They're not actually digesting that learning.
It's not personal. They're not mindful when they're
having that that training. And so there's a couple of
things there, right? Like it's and you don't want to
say people aren't being properly.
Punished Cuz I mean we don't want to say punish exactly what
I'm thinking but they're not being properly made aware of
what the impact is right. When you're not Mindful and
these emails are coming and you're clicking this link.
This school like right North Carolina you know they had a
whole Ransom experience because of clicks, right ends up costing
you know schools organizations millions of dollars to either
decide if they're going to pay the ransom.
Yeah. And still not get all of their
data. All of their information back,
right? Yeah.
Or you like, I'm not gonna pay the ransom.
Like how we did here in Tulsa, our water department was
compromised, that data, all that stuff and they didn't pay the
ransom. And so that's still millions of
dollars. Because now you have to rebuild
everything, you still have to recreate everything.
Yeah, and E, you know, for the City of Tulsa, we as regular
degler citizens, are paying the cost because you see all of
these fees and taxes added onto our water bills.
So I think when people don't say this happened and now that
happened, you know, they are not mindful.
They're Responsible, ya know that like you you're being a
detriment to not just, you know, the cybersecurity, you know,
framework in the system and like, where else are you doing
this in your life? Yeah, exactly.
It's the, you know, thing that's interesting is that and I've
heard this before, you say it starts with awareness, right?
If someone doesn't feel responsible or accountable might
be because they don't know, at least that's me personally.
If I know what is happening, I feel responsible because I know
right. If you told me I can't say, I
don't know because you just told me especially the you.
So then I feel responsible for acting accordingly, right?
And especially if you know the theory of what happens if you
know the Involved. It's weird that you can actually
put it to practice, maybe if there's a disconnect in like the
risk factor that people like, Ah, that's not going to happen
to me. That's like one in a million is
like winning the lottery and we're going to win the lottery.
I don't think so. Yeah.
It's more like, it's more of the chances of losing the lottery,
right? It's happened.
You're gonna click, you're going to forget your password, you're
going to not engage the two Factor Authentication.
Then on our cell phones? Yeah.
You're you're going to you're going to get gas mask.
That looks I like how you flipped it.
Like you will lose the lottery. You will have a cyber security
incident. I've been in place, you're going
to have it at home. You're going to have it period.
Yeah. It just depends on your own
level of how do you That I guess Brazilians in that way, what the
impact is going to be right? If you recover, yeah, because
how would one recover because you're talking about?
Let's say there's a data breach and people are asking for a
ransom, nobody would have backups.
I'm assuming, right? So you would be like, well, we
actually have the stuff already. And that too is one of the
biggest problems right organization systems?
People write me Greg low a low tonight cybersecurity not Yoda
but just regular old Iota not backing up.
Yeah, right. And so that ends up costing
millions of dollars and then there's there's another cost
Associated. So now you're hearing this blame
at, why didn't I back up? Right.
Yep. And why didn't I do this?
Why I was going to go back, right?
So like there's there's monetary cost, but then there's these
other costs and I'm saying cause not investment like how we think
of money like these are cops, right?
And so that lack of just that that's why I like you see so
many organizations trying to do mindfulness in the workplace.
Yeah, you're like present at work.
Because now you're you have this and I say opportunity to go back
and you have to, you know, where did we go wrong?
Yeah, right. So you get to analyze like oh,
it's people again right? It's clicks again.
Yeah. Right.
It's not following the policies and procedures that we created
and put in place again. You know, so you're like and
then so you're back to this place, how do we get people to
be mindful, you know, as the foundation of this resiliency in
the workplace when it comes to our employees and our systems?
You know, how do we get back to this place?
And when you look in organizations, like Google and
Athena, and they're talking about how their work, You know
how their employees and their, their their systems and just our
overall productivity has grown because of this mindfulness in
the workplace people meditating, okay?
So maybe meditating sounds scary, right?
People taking a moment when they sit down at their computer
before they get their day started.
Coming off of the water cooler where you if you're in the
workplace and your ketene. Ten with Jane and Jim and Joe at
the water cooler and you're thinking of the conversation in
your head, your kind of distracted but you come back to
your computer, right? And this is the same at home,
you're, you're having a key conversation, you're flirting
with your partner, your back into.
Now it's time to work and you're not focused on work to take
moments. You like what am I getting ready
to do? Exactly. and breathe into it and
Center yourself into what you're getting ready to do, you know to
get people to do that moment of awareness that moment of
President, you know making themselves present People don't
necessarily want to do it. Yeah.
I like that a lot and I don't think I'd do it myself.
Yeah, the I mean breathing in and of its own is very powerful
but when you were in a routine way, I live in Amsterdam.
Everything there is go. Go go, whether you're walking or
on a bike but then time flies by, right?
The busy, as you are, the faster time goes by.
I've noticed that when I slow down and when I'm we're in the
moment, when I take out my podcast to my music or whatever.
When I My phone. I'm like okay these are moving a
lot slower. Now yeah I know bit more calm.
I can focus on my breathing, my posture and Center myself in a
way I otherwise wouldn't have but you're right.
It doesn't come automatically know and it's like And and so, a
lot of work, a lot of, you know, people in the workplace like
those managers, those, you know, CEOs of division, you know, all
of those people like we're in this place in in and how the
world is moving along. We don't want to rock the boat
with our employees. We don't want it.
Like, you don't want to say, oh, I want to tell my yoda that she
needs to take a moment and breathe but not Yoda might say,
oh, you're Try to tell me what to do because I'm a black woman
and the workplace and now you're trying to make me breathe.
I think people are just scared to do anything.
Yeah. Oh, you're against me because
I'm a non-binary or you're against me.
Like I'm not a, it's not an attack here.
Yeah, exactly. I'm for you as this.
Want you to take a moment and breathe.
So you could pay attention at work.
Oh, you only care about work. Like it's always.
As a back-and-forth you only care about work.
You don't care about your employees.
Yeah, I know. That's why I want you to just
breathe. Exactly.
That's probably why we're having this conversation right now.
It has to do a lot with culture. I don't see a lot of that in, in
all of my must say, where people are, like I said, because you're
attacking me. I'm just like, no, two mean.
That's not really the point here.
That doesn't, I don't think that's ever happened.
To me. And this is our culture of like
this. Look here, I spent a lot of too
much time on social media. Because it's skewing what
reality is, right? There's they call it programming
and television programs for a reason.
Yeah, right. And so we get to look at like,
what are we programming ourselves with?
Like, you know, faith comes by hearing, right?
It's the Bible. In the Bible says, right faith
comes by hearing and, you know, But that also like, if you're
hearing positive things. Yeah.
Also appearing - things, right? So now, you're believing and
something that's not true or - because you listen to it.
It's the repetition of it. Yeah.
So what are we feeding ourselves?
You know who, who are you around?
Exactly. And it's way, it's a way more
easy to fixate on the negative. 1,000 people might tell you
something good and like five people.
Tell you something - and you, you might stay awake because of
that. Five people.
And I thinking like, yeah. But, you know, she complimented
my earrings. She thought I did a really good
job on that report. She really loves my
presentation. Yeah, she's like, my mannerisms
are awesome. Right?
But someone says like, what kind of shoes are those?
And you're like, what? My mom?
Gave me these shoes. No, you're done.
That's over. Back to work.
Exactly. I think I don't know why but to
me it's very hard to get offended.
Lot of things are like these. I don't hold attachment to my
shoes, I like them. If you think they're ugly, I'll
allow it is not an attack on my style or my sense of shoe.
I thought, do I really care about what you think about my
shoes? It's weird in a way yet or when
there is something I don't have a good example.
Sometimes it does bother me all right.
Stuck. Sticks with me where I have an
altercation with someone who some like bump when I'm having
an altercation with someone and they completely flip out, I will
reflect. And be like, did I do something
wrong or was it something I said, or was it my intonation?
Was it. I mean again something I said I
don't know what otherwise it would be was the way I came
across. I would never think goddamn or
they're not in a good place or it was a Friday afternoon and we
just fed up or that something personal going on in that, I
will very much go Inward and reflected to what I did because
that I have control over. It's still not a personal
attack, though. People are looking to be
offended, unfortunately. Yeah, people aren't Like you
said, people aren't looking to be complimented.
I pulled down compliments like rebounds.
Like it wasn't even meant to be a compliment as a compliment.
Like that everything. It's a compliment.
And by Margaret like that that wasn't a compliment.
I'm like it wasn't or when your friends are like oh you've
changed. I'll be like thank you I really
been working at it. They're like no they didn't.
They didn't mean it. Thank you.
Anyway. I probably have to because of it
though. Yeah, thank you.
I've been working on changing like I want to be a different
man but people like yeah, you do this.
I'm not looking to be offended. Yeah.
You know I don't want to be offended.
Exactly. I think if everyone had that
attitude, It would be a lot happier because I think, again,
it comes back to the social part.
If you give someone a compliment, not only will they
feel a lot happier. You'll feel a lot happier as
well. You're going to get a smile in
response. You're going to make someone's
day if everyone does that. I think the world probably will
get a bit better because of that.
My sister and I we talked in like chasing right.
Like what we're chasing like so my sisters like, you know,
finishing up her degree so she's like, I'm chasing completion.
Like I'm chasing completion, right?
Like when I'm out, like I'm chasing heels.
Like depending on what, you know, my work, like I'm looking
for every he'll I want it to be hard.
I'm chasing heels right? Or sometimes, you know, I'm
chasing the shade, right? So I'll let the path of where
the shade is take me. I'm Sing rainbows, I'm chasing
compliments. I'm chasing.
Give it, like, we speak in this. Like what are you chasing today,
right? Like and but for my sister for
these last, she's like every day you talk to her, I'm chasing
completion, right? So we get to chase consistency.
So what do you want to consistently have?
What do you want to consistently?
Be considered. It's consistently.
You know, how do you want to show up?
Hey and so if you if you want to be angry bitter Better person.
Yeah. Okay.
That's what you chase, right? But I don't want that.
I want to walk into the room and people feel like I'm the answer
to their prayers. I want to walk into a room and
people feel like this, whatever that is, whatever she's having,
I'll have that exactly that. What I want people to feel even
without, you know, talking to me.
Just when I walk in, they just feel that there's something
different about me. Um, and and I want that for four
people, I want people to be drawn to the goodness in me and
the kindness of me and the fruits of his spirits, right of
my patients, my joy, right? I want that to attract and then
to be able for me to properly, leverage that in the best ways,
right? Whether I'm reflecting it back
on you, whether I'm reflecting it back on systems and policies
and procedures or my relationships, right?
Like we get to To, like, take it in and hold it, and Stir It Up
and then give it back even better than how I received it.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's something worth chasing. That's what it sounds like to
me. Absolutely, I really love this
conversation nyota. I hope you enjoy it as well.
Is there anything you still want to share?
Just know that like in the thank you said it.
Like we are ours, cause like, we are the reason for our joy, you
know, where the reason for our sadness, where the reason for
resilient networks, where the reason for non resilient, that
works exactly. Like we are the reason, right?
Yeah, we're a control. So choose choose how you want to
act choose how you want to be and you'll be Like that as well.
Exactly. Decide decide to be resilient
design. Decide to be kind decide.
Yeah, I love that. We're gonna we get ended off on
that one. Now, you're the Gordon.
Everyone, I'm gonna put all the links to our socials in the
description below. And thank you for listening.
We'll see you on the next one.