Hi. I'm Helen Avery with the green
Finance Institute and you're listening to our cop15.
Special series of financing nature in partnership with the
United Nations environment program in this episode.
Live from Montreal, I speak to stakeholders across the business
finance and environmental sector to hear how the negotiations are
going and what their kiosks are. Welcome everyone from Montreal,
where it got 15. And there are thousands of
people here in Montreal for the convention on biodiversity and
I've heard perhaps even as many as 20,000.
But we also know that there are many You who can't make the
conference, or maybe you're choosing to spare.
The carbon footprint and stay at home.
So we wanted to bring cop15 to you and fill you in on, who's
here, what they're saying, how the negotiations are going and
what are the key topics emerging here?
And also just to let you know that you're very much here in
spirit. But before we hear from several
different people, we wanted to set the scene a little for you.
Give you a bit of flavor and color.
Got 15 is taking place in an enormous Convention, Center
called Le Palais. Des congrès on the Ground floor,
there's vast security, and cafes and shops meeting areas.
There's music in the evening. There's art and National
Geographic has an immersive experience where you can go.
She's very large room, and envelop yourself and stunning
imagery and videos of nature with music.
Then on the second floor, and the fifth, there are
negotiations taking place. So that's 196 countries from
around the world, negotiating on the wording of the global.
Biodiversity framework sometimes called g.b.f., and its goals.
And it's targets. So some of the negotiations
begin really early in the morning and don't end up
finishing until very, very late at night and some our own going
day after day in some of those sessions you can sit in and
observe the country's toing and froing on exact wordings.
Then around those negotiations, there are multiple rooms again
where there are other meetings taking place, there are vents
panels. There are exhibition Halls
actually with many ngos and countries and sectors, and huge
stands represented there and they're all here.
Are to influence and support the negotiations.
And I'm hearing that this is really a first for a
biodiversity convention, typically, its scientists and
the negotiators are here. So it's quite overwhelming for
many of these people to see such interest.
Now, in nature, and for the most part, there's a lot of
camaraderie. Here is the ngos and business
and finance are here with this one, aim of halting and
reversing biodiversity loss, this decade.
And it's not just about what's happening inside the Palais, Des
congrès, there are also multiple events taking place in various
hotels and Says restaurants throughout Old Montreal and
downtown. So hopefully that's given you a
bit of color and you can imagine yourselves here with this, a
reminder that this framework is absolutely critical.
The last set of targets, the HG targets were set in 2010 and
have been missed. We've been reminded often this
week of that fact. So we need ambitious targets
that lead to practical outcomes to come from the g.b.f. that
will move us through till 2013. We really need those agreements
done and of course we covered some of this.
In our last episode with Elizabeth Maremma, executive
secretary of the CBD and information officer David
Ainsworth. So how the negotiations going?
Well, we've heard that the head of the directorate general for
the environment at the European commission, described the
negotiations, to getting off to a wobbly start, but that the
delegates are now coming together.
Those tear a little split on the success of the framework.
Still we need that specific wording agreed so that the
targets are ambitious and we can sure countability another say if
the wording It's an agreement getting done.
Let's not worry about the details, should perfect be the
enemy of the good and there's a fine line to walk obviously
here. And there are certain wordings
that are really important and we'll hear about those in a
moment because to share their insights on the negotiations and
those all-important wordings. And if and give you a feel for
What's Happening Here in Montreal, we've spoken to
representatives from Nestle and Schroeder's Finance for
biodiversity Foundation Federated Hermes.
Unep fitn FD the You bcsd, Nat cap, research, and also in Geo
jungle Keepers. There are lots of financing
Nature's former guest Eric cop15, which has been wonderful
to see. And there will also be some
familiar voices in this episode for you.
I'm sure. So really looking forward to
sharing those with you. And obviously, this will be a
longer episode than normal. So we can bring you as many
voices as much information as we can, and I can't promise it's
going to be the highest quality audio Rivera done as I'm using
the tiniest Mike I've ever seen. But I'm hopeful that that will
just add to the Authenticity and and for an even more authentic
experience of got 15 while listening, I would recommend
you, recommend you grab yourself a croissant and maybe drink for
five potentially six cups of coffee.
There's no passing in 0. Doesn't address deforestation.
And there's no path to Net Zero. It does not support nature
Positive Solutions. But argue, we can leverage these
enormous flows of finance that are being dedicated towards net
zero as part of part of the way to address the crisis and
biodiversity in nature and not least because nature and climate
change or interdependent. So that was more Connie
referring to the T and f d in his opening remarks at Finance
day. And so the teen FDA has had an
incredible reception here in Montreal, the climate ambassador
of Canada Katharine Stewart, shared her government support 14
FD in opening statements, the World by diversity Summit.
That also took place here this week and manual favor chair of
the international sustainability's Standards
Board, the ISS be signaled. The intention of the Isis be to
draw on the tnf Dee's nature related.
Management and disclosure approach as it emerges alongside
the development of ISS bees work and it's hard to be in any
meeting actually or any panel without the TFT coming up and
the Teen of D teams all here. Obviously, co-chair of the tnf D
is executive secretary of the CBD Elizabeth Aroma.
She's obviously here alongside co-chair the tfd David Craig and
the whole rest of the team and I was able to catch up with James
dash, co-chair of the data Catalyst for the teen FD, to
share with us what the team has. Been doing here and what they're
hoping for out of comp. At so, James.
It's so good to see you. It's been a really big week for
the 10ft. Yeah.
Thanks. Thanks, Helen.
It has been really exciting and encouraging to see so many
people supporting the teen ft. But our key Focus has been the
data lab sessions of which we have holding eight across four
days on a thematic basis. Each session is 100 people and
we've got turning 50 people online plus so you know really
well attended. We've got a few other sessions
just doing a breakdown of where we are with the cars to the
framework. People get an understanding of
that development and that's what we'll be looking to focus on for
the rest, the week as well. And on the data side obviously
is key and that's probably the piece that if one wants to talk
about. As they are thinking about how
they're going to start adopting the framework or testing out any
sort of challenges that have come out of what you've seen so
far or key themes. Yeah.
It's really interesting. So there's a lot of opportunity
here, right. And it's great to see so many
people looking to engage on that kind of basis and the key word
I'd use Here is, is how how do we engage?
How can we adopt the framework? And that was one of the one of
the target objectives of these data lab sessions, is to enable
people to understand a context providing, you know, data
provided understanding. What data users would look for
and vice versa. But also enabling those dues
those companies and financial institutions to say, okay, how
do we best engage or how can we adopt the framework in a way
that is suitable? When we launched the framework
in September 2023? We can have the broadest
adoption in the shortest time frame possible whilst being
scientifically credible. Then we'll be in a great place,
but ultimately, to do that, we need to ensure that people are
comfortable with the, with the data that is and based on the
feedback that you get this week from, because there's a very
practical sessions as well. As not just a panel, there's
sort of talking afterwards between of peer-to-peer on their
learnings, we be sharing any of that back.
So you can sort of get out and have others, learn from it.
Absolutely, you know, the The whole point of this is a
learning process, right? So the more we share the more
feedback we can get those helpful for everybody.
So we will be distilling all the many points that were raised
session with recessions morning and all the other ones and that
will be published online in a way that hopefully give everyone
a bit of context. And so just finally, when I
still have you tell us what are some of the key messages that
the 10ft team are Keen to get across to the negotiators during
the conference. So I guess.
The focus around that was obviously around Target 15,
right? And I think the, the key point
there is, you know, we've seen the framework is playing a
really key operate operationalizing role in that,
and I think the focus and unsanitary is, is on impact of
nature, but we want to emphasize as well, the real importance,
that business and finance dependencies on nature are just
as important, okay? There's obviously clear
references to risks, Etra. But we want to incentivize
broader Market participation. That is that is what it is out
of me, all about brilliant. So looking for wording around
dependencies in addition to impacts in that all important,
Target 15, what? James, thank you so much for
your time today and good luck with the rest of the week.
Thank you very much pleasure. So staying on this topic of
data, which everyone's talking about, you know, is the date of
the issue, is Tater a challenge. And I had the pleasure of
meeting with CEO of netcat research.
Sebastian leap will said one of the messages that were getting
here at court 15. Is that if anyone tells you that
we can't be ambitious on targets because we don't have the data
that would be completely incorrect.
What are your thoughts on that point?
We've been locked up over the road the humanity out of us, you
days? The tnf D-Day to cast of
sessions. And I've been really excited by
the range of data sources that we're hearing coming through.
I think we have enough at the modeled data space with Encore
and some of the spt N tools to have a decent sense of what's
happening at the sector region levels for a company's portfolio
or supply chain. We have lots of advice and
observational data and that's when that cat research has
really been focused and we've brought to Market, a sort of
going to carbon model at 5 meter resolution.
We develop innovative as for modern and connectivity and
more. So there's some really exciting
progress being made there and then there's equally exciting
progress being made at the field data collection space with a DNA
and bioacoustics getting a lot of traction.
So the data is there, the question is not, is it
available? It's how you use it and how do
you ingest it away? This decision, ready?
So you know, just to confirm, we're not saying there aren't
challenges. In fact, there are some specific
challenges, some were happy mentioned in some of the data
Labs routine FDA. Do you want to just give us a
brief Lowdown on what you've heard?
Yeah, absolutely. So there's been a few Teams of
come up from these sessions. I think one is that we already
know the location of company & Financial Services assets is
crucial here and we just have to find a way to standardize the
collection of shapefiles. We don't just have addresses of
Farms or factories that we know specifically the land on which
they are operating. So, that's one big thing.
I think there's another Point here on the scope when we're
thinking about impact evaluation, what is the scope of
that assessment. When you build a dam, how many
kilometers up or down stream? Are you actually going to Look
when you're investigating, what impact that damn has had.
And that's, that's a sort of standard that remained to be
defined. I think there's ocean
interesting point. We were just discussing this
morning on on the temporal variation that comes about with
biodiversity data. So, depending on what time of
day or time of the year, you investigate a site will make a
big difference in terms of what you find is.
How do we standardize and overcome that temporal
variation. So lots to Think Through lots of
Standards have to be set and lots of gaps have to be filled
but But we have more than enough to get started and I know we've
talked about for there's also some gaps, still and models that
need to be filled in. Yes, there are quite a few
ecosystem Services where we just have gaps.
And I think the biggest one that's been coming out is
pollination, and that's something we've been really
focused on it. And that cap research, we've
launched last year, our GB pollination model that we're
proud of, and have been refining that to bring it globally, just
wrapping up. What are your hopes or concerns
for cop15? We've got a few days left of
negotiations. What are you thinking?
So I put my head in yesterday into the plenary that was
negotiating. The text and hats off to them
and looks like a very painful process.
I hope that they get to a point where we have specific
measurable actionable targets that we can easily measure using
the data we've just discussed today and and hold our companies
governments and leaders to account on.
And I hope we don't lose spirit and water them down because the
specificity of this targets is critical.
When it's /, C Foundation was set up in March last year to
bring together the finance sector to work on reversing
nature lost this decade. And 111 financial institutions
have signed at the finance for biodiversity pledge.
That group has been working on what the finance sector needs to
see from the negotiations and the wording specifically on
Goldie and targets, 14 and 15 in order for us to be able to put
Global Capital to work, you may remember.
Member ssanyal Lichtman Federated Hermes who joined us
on the podcast earlier this year, she co-chairs the public
policy advocacy working group for the finance, for
biodiversity foundation. So I was very lucky to catch up
with both Sonia and Anita to Halt, co-founder of the finance
for biodiversity Foundation to hear more about the specific
wording. They are hoping for how the
negotiations seem to be going and also the launch of nature
action, 100, Anita and Sonia. Thank you so much for Joining us
today a busy day in the midst of the business and finance days
of, of course. And of course, finite state is
being jointly organised by the finance for biodiversity
foundation. So coming to you first, then
Anita has the presence of the financial institutions here,
been in line with expectations. And how does it compare to other
biodiversity cops? Yes, even more.
It's incredible. How many financial institutions
are present here in Montreal with the delegation of 26 fine.
Financial institutions on behalf of Finance, for biodiversity
Foundation, but they're even more investors here.
I think a couple of hundreds, which is amazing knowing that
this is the first CBD cop in which financial institutions,
and also businesses are united. And to join here to tell
governments to make a stand, that we need a clear and
ambitious, Global. Biodiversity framework.
I mean certainly isn't I've only been here a couple days, but it
does seem like there are. There's an incredible turnout.
So It's very heartening and so let's talk about what the asks
are from the finance, biodiversity foundation and and
the pledge and this cop 15 suits on your you.
And I talked about this on the podcast, at the beginning of the
year and exciting that, you know, now here we are.
So there are more than I think 111.
Financial institutions that have signed up to the pledge and
there's some very specific wording that's being asked for
out of the global biodiversity framework and the targets.
So I wonder if you could Just talk us through what those are
absolutely good to see you. Again, Helen the finance for
biodiversity Foundation became an observer to the convention on
biological diversity over a year and a half ago now.
So we've been following the development of the framework and
contributing as much as possible throughout the different working
groups and we were on the ground in Geneva and had colleagues on
the ground in Nairobi. And now here we are at cop, as
you say, it's great to be here. We focused on three specific
areas on Goldie, It was all about resource mobilization.
Of course, we do need more funding for nature, but we
introduced language there about the alignment of public and
private Financial flows, which is absolutely critical.
Because, as well as increasing public and private funds for
nature, we need to sort out all of the negative Financial flows
that are currently harming biodiversity.
And then the other areas we focused on our Target, 14 and
15, Target 14. Again, emphasizes this point
about the alignment of public and private Financial flows and
then Target 15, Is all about disclosure of impacts and
dependencies which we all know we need businesses to do it.
Especially large businesses with significant impacts on
biodiversity and that will allow us as financial institutions to
address our own biodiversity impacts and dependencies and
Tessa and we actually heard from James death, 18ft earlier about
that. Need for dependencies that word
being in there in addition to impacts so need to coming to
you. How hopeful are you, you've been
there, you're observing the negotiations as they take place.
That's very exciting. And how hopeful are you that we
will get this wording that we're looking for.
Yeah, we're always hopeful. And we know with cops in history
that that it's always the end. Hey, you never know what happens
in the end that was also in the Paris agreement.
It was in the last few days that article 21.
See that made a really impact on the finance sector that got in
this text. So, we're very hopeful, of
course, that like Sonia, explain Goldie Target 14 and 15 are
Points. We'll stick however, yeah, it's
very slow. The negotiations.
We hear, there are some countries that are against
private sector involvement. So we really doing our utmost at
the moment to try to help the negotiations.
Also, under the big point of resource mobilization more
funding for nature. So we're ready to say, we really
want the reducing harmful Financial flows but we're also
here to say, Yeah, the private sector can also be a solution.
It's just it is wonderful to see the private sector.
Really get behind nature and how fast that's move in just a
couple of years and of course we have the make it mandatory
campaign from business for nature that's also in full force
here. We're hearing that echoed in a
lot of the panels and lot of the discussions and that's something
also, the finance sector is getting behind I presume.
Absolutely it's one was in our position paper since the
beginning. We wrote Out three position
papers with public policy working group in which Sonya is
co-chairing together with Emily is ill from store brand asset
management. And this was one of the first
point. We adopted make it mandatory
mandatory disclosure and impact assessment is crucial because if
companies disclose their impact and dependencies are nature,
they can also align their financial flows and their
portfolios knowing which sectors are harmful.
And How they can reduce these harmful flow.
So it's essential that companies.
But also financial institutions disclose their impact and
dependencies on nature. Well, let's keep the fingers
crossed for that wording and so just, finally, you've had an
announcement this week, so we great to hear more about that.
And let me see if I've got this right, nature action, 100.
So you can, you tell us a bit more about that?
Yes, of course. So it was the soft launch of
nature action, 100 on Sunday and this is a collaborative.
Stir engagement initiative which will be focused on how we can
encourage companies to reduce their negative impacts on
biodiversity throughout their value chains.
So we as Federated homies limited are really pleased to be
part of the launching investor group and now having selected
our partners with series, igcc the finance for biodiversity
foundation and Planet tracker. And what is the aim of that of
that initiative, really to engage the companies that are
currently having the most negative impacts on biodiversity
and those The news that a systemically important to
reversing nature loss and that's the goal.
We want to help companies move towards reversing nature loss in
this decade. And of course we know the
investors have a critical role to play in that through engaging
with companies and driving the transformation of business
models. Are there any sectors in
particular that you will be looking at what have looked at
already? We did a lot of work already to
scope companies to look at their food printing, but other
elements are also important. Look at this closure.
These companies and their activities and strategies on
nature. So, these are components in
which we are going to set up the coming months to get away, the
technical Advisory Group and assigns Council to really look
at Ya scoping. The companies which one are
deemed to systemically be important for nature and which
one? Yeah.
And also to look at, of course the exposure of investors in
these companies which is crucial to engage with just a big.
Thanks and hope it goes well, The rest of the, the day, and
the week and good luck with the negotiations.
The first time that we have an official today that is devoted
inside a cop to finance and and biodiversity finance and for
good reason, right? And you heard these CEOs and
others say that, they guess that this is important.
They also get it's difficult, and they also get the very
easily can be accused of greenwashing and so finding that
threading, that needle, that's what this is.
All about figuring out how to do this.
So that is Meaningful Etc because we do need to more than
double investment in biodiversity into assets and
activities that have a positive impact on biodiversity.
We've heard so much about the importance of Finance this week.
Indeed in Granderson under Secretary General of the UN and
executive director of the United Nations environment.
Program in her opening remarks at Finance, they reminded us
that we live in a financial system.
So, how do we shift that for the better and she called on those
in the room to put their weight behind Innovation for
investment, pressuring for a reduction in global subsidies
backing mandatory disclosures, and then developing measurements
for outcomes. There are well over 100
financial institutions here at got 15, I wouldn't be surprised
if it's 200, and it's very heartening to see that level of
interest in nature from the insurance, sector asset
managers, Pension funds, and Banks and several have been
represented in groups. Like, Finance for biodiversity
and some have had their own announcements and just come on
their own. So, I think it's a really good
idea to understand why they've come individually.
Why are they turned up? And how the supporting that
crucial wording and the commitment to Halt and reverse
biodiversity loss? So I caught up with Andrew
Howard, Global head of sustainable investment and Sarah
Woodfield. Active ownership manager.
Both from Schroeder's at a side event.
Thank you. Andrew, and Sarah, so much for
taking time, out of again. I'm very busy schedules.
I'm saying this to everyone. Join us here today to share
about what you're hoping for out of got 15.
And before we get to that just sort of putting some context
around it. This isn't particularly new is
it to shoulders and Sandra maybe to start us off by sharing.
Why is it important for you to be here?
I think if you look at the question that you're actually
right it's not new and thanks very much as well the chance to
talk to you. I think if this is an area that
in different names in different words and different terminology,
we've certainly been looking at for an awful long time but what
we have found over the last few years is a lawful lot more.
Focus across political spheres across social spheres on nature
on biodiversity. I do think we're a bit of a
turning point, not calling this specifically as being that, you
know, that the point of crystallization.
But we are at an area where you can see the momentum building.
We can see that action starting to come through, that's going to
have an impact on us. We're a global asset manager, we
manage around a trillion dollars, globally, the
Investments, that we manage our exposed to Nature are exposed to
biodiversity risks. You don't have a choice about
that understanding where those risks are.
How we can manage them, if they're for pretty critical to
our business, exit, and Sarah, maybe you could share with us
and just some of the work you've been doing with corporates to
look. Feels like it's quite a lot of
pressure on corporates at this event.
So so tell us how it's been going.
So we've been engaging with companies for a number of years
and particularly over the last three years, we've had over 200
engagements with companies that we investment on, biodiversity
nature, related issues and and that encompasses quite a number
of different areas. So that could be anything from
Land exploitation. So one of the key drivers of
biodiversity losses and exploitation could be
deforestation could be pollution.
So our engagement work is really focused on engaging with those
companies to better. Just and the risks how they're
planning to manage those risks and working with them over a
period of time. To look at that transition to
their business model, that needs to take place in order to
support an H+ future. Now, deforestation is a key area
of focus for us. We are one of the signatories to
the pledge made at cop 26, last year to eliminate commodity
driven, deforestation by 2025. So we spent this year taking a
very systematic approach to looking at a restaurant Is to
really understand where that risk lies across sectors and
individual companies. And over the next year in the
run up to 20 25, we're going to be taking a much more.
Can a systematic approach to engaging with those companies to
better understand the risks and event eventually to inform
investment decisions. I think there's a lot we can
laugh, you some hoping you'll both come on next year and we
can talk in more detail about how you're working with
companies. We've heard a lot at the
conference and certainly in their side events and In that
panels, taking place about risk and disclosure.
And, you know, the hope that is that disclosure will lead to
more investment flowing. It does also feel when there has
been discussion around this, that there is a bit of a gap at
the moment between that risk and opportunity.
So Andrew, what do you see that we need to do to unlock that
Finance mobilization, that we need?
I think, actually right there is a gap mean, just looking at this
juster of climate lens for a moment, nature investment in
nature investment investment in natural Capital, could be 30% to
the Change that we need to see in terms of emission reduction
over the next 10 years. It's about 3% of the world's
climate Finance, there is a huge disconnect and when you broaden
that out further and look more broadly at all of the benefits
that nature provides all of the ecosystem services and you look
at the way in which they're being valued is there's a huge
gap. What we ultimately need for that
to work, I think is not just about disclosure and how do we
get companies? That's critical that vital to
our ability to understand companies, vital, to companies
abilities, to set their own road maps, but it's also about
fundamentally aligning economic policy.
See Financial policy industrial policy.
All to point in the same direction, finance will flow at
scale where there's perceived to be an expectation of real value
being created and real fun. Real Financial value being
attached to Nature and that's really about all of those groups
working together to attach a real Financial value to such a
critical asset. I think that leads us perfectly
onto this final question and then I'll let you go and that is
you what are you hoping for in terms of outcomes of the
negotiations this week? So really, it's just To that
point. So trying to bring together
economic actors policy, actors and public and private sector to
really shape the agenda for a post-2020 global biodiversity
framework, which will set milestones in terms of us
achieving nature positive future by 2050.
We are signatories of the make it mandatory campaign.
We think this is really critical that businesses are better.
Placed to disclose the impacts and dependencies on nature this.
It will enable us as investment managers to better, hold those
companies to account, but also to work with them on that
Journey, as they start to really understand those risks, wearing
their supply chain, those risks. It, and what changes they need
to make to their business model to move towards that net
positive future. One other thing that we're
really hoping to see from from the negotiations is
complementary, focus on the social benefits of nature.
So we recognize that in order to protect and conserve The
ecosystem Services which we have only rely on.
We need the communities, which interact with those ecosystem
services to really be at the heart of those conversations as
well. And that's particularly true.
When we look at issues of deforestation and ensuring that
forested land is being protected by the communities though that
work very closely with them brilliant and there's a lot of
messaging this week around indigenous communities, and
communities, more, broadly, even Farmers.
I've heard mentioning to be more engaged.
Well, thank you both so much for your time and I think we're And
yourselves all lots of luck with the negotiations and look
forward to getting to bit more detail next year.
So we've heard that really for any Global ambition for
biodiversity to succeed is going to take a shift from businesses.
And that part of the whole ecosystem, here has been really
well represented at caught 15. There were two business days
with many events, hosted by business for nature.
And the Coalition. And this is for Nature has
galvanized over 340 businesses and financial institutions from
52 countries to urge, world leaders to adopt within Target,
15 of the global. Biodiversity framework, some
very specific wording and that wording is mandatory
requirements for all large businesses and financial
institutions to assess, and disclose their impacts and
dependencies on biodiversity by 2030.
Couple of words in there, very Current one is dependencies and
the other is mandatory and actually it's Wednesday night
here in Montreal. As I'm recording this and the
word mandatory we've heard has been taken out today.
They couldn't get agreement on it, there's everything to play
for. There's some days left.
We hoping it's going to go back in for the moment.
It's really not a given even despite the huge efforts of the
make it mandatory campaign, and it is either zeb a executive
director of business for nature received.
A standing ovation from negotiators.
Here, this When she was making the case for mandatory
requirements and this wording. So quite confusing about why
this has now changed it. Like notice but you know we
remaining optimistic that it could again change in the next
few days. So the world Business Council
for sustainable development. Is also here.
They are working with more than 220 businesses on turning
commitments into action when it comes to reducing business
impacts on nature and Diane. Hold off Executive Vice
President of the W bcsd very Kindly ducked into acquires a
hotel lobby with me to share. So the world Business Council
for sustainable development. Obviously you've got more than
220 member businesses that you're working with and on
behalf of. And so just really Keen to get
your view about the business sector presence here at cop15.
Has it been surprising to you as it met your expectations?
Hey, honey, thanks so much for having me, it's actually
unprecedented. We've had over 700 companies
attending and this is across all sectors Finance industry.
And you know, the Spectrum, this is the first time we've seen
this level of mobilization and interest in a biodiversity cop.
It's, it's something that we've seen, of course, really
developing in climate, especially post Paris, and
cop21. This is, I think that kind of
Tipping Point was, as excellent. And it really, just filled means
today is a business day that there's a lot of momentum.
A lot of events happening with the business sector.
So I guess the question is you know how and why are the
business sector here? What is it?
They're looking for. The businesses have learned so
much from the climate Journey. It's quite clear.
Of course, with the climate emergency is and the impacts to
business resilience and opportunities.
We're starting to see the development of awareness and
understanding and we're actually leveraging that climate journey
to be able to go faster on what it means to take to get to the
type of positioning, for a company that is nature positive.
Along the lines of what we've had to try to work through to
get to Net Zero. So showing up here is really
demonstrating Trading a Readiness and what surprises me
the most is the level of action that we're already seeing
showing up here. If you had asked me a year ago,
when this was two years ago, when this was supposed to be
scheduled, if this level of action wouldn't have been
visible yet. So we've come a long way, pretty
quickly. Let's is always really positive
2 here and we'll talk about, you know, what, we're looking for
out. The negotiations, from the
business sector in a moment, but maybe you can sort of talk us
through the work of WBC SD. You know, what is it that you're
delivering here in 2015? One of the things that were
leveraging as I said is, how can we use?
What the sectors have acted on to accelerate the work in
climate and replicate that into nature?
We have a couple of companies who are really, you know, the
Front Runners who are really leaning in to help craft.
For example, the task force, for nature related Financial
disclosures, the setting of science-based targets for nature
but Q companies have that type of capacity to lean in and build
that understanding. So we've done is we've worked
with over 60 of Our member companies and really critical
Partners in this space to develop roadmap guidance, for
what it means to get to Nature positive.
How do you understand what's material?
How do you use that to set commitments and targets with
that interaction and guidance of what we're seeing coming
starting to come out of the science-based targets for
nature? What are the actions and
Investments that need to go? How do you set the right kpis
for What good performance looks like and then how does that get
drilled into strong? Governance, accountability and
disclosure. How do we start to set up the
kinds of internal processes and systems?
That allow us to move faster to get to that level of disclosure.
So there's still so many questions from so many
businesses that this kind of roadmap, guidance allows, the
big companies who are leaning in to understand this to move
faster together. Then they take it out to their
value chains, and Chains. And that's how we start to get
the engagement from those who don't have the capacity to start
to build that awareness. We can simplify the steps for
them and then it gets all the way down to smes.
And on the grounds, it starts to really guide what the investment
and decision-making criteria needs to be.
So that level of specific guidance is what we've brought
into this cop and that will now go forward into next year into
very deep sector specific guidance for those sectors that
really have the biggest impacts in biodiversity loss and So
crucial as you say in really unlocking companies which kind
of key in any of the Ambitions that we have towards towards
nature positive and just a final question, then before we let you
head on to your many evening events and that's really just
like what we think the business Community is needs from these
negotiations. The leading businesses who are
here, really want to see an ambitious, Global.
Biodiversity framework, the post-2020 go, lighter City
framework that the negotiators are working on should be setting
the stage for what that kind of action.
Looks like at the national level that business can then
contribute into I think, even if we don't see the level of
ambition and that framework that we're hopeful for, we're already
going to have private sector leadership on.
What good action. It looks like driving these
accountability. Adams fast that will help us as
we head into the future, biodiversity cops.
But you know, there's a couple of articles are going to be
really important. In particular, the one I'm
pollution article 7 that starts to line up with the work.
The UN is doing on the global Plastics.
Treaty, that connects the dots for businesses working in these
spaces, of course, Article 15. And then the final point is that
one, non-target 18 where we need to think about how the role of
subsidies these big Finance pools in driving the right kinds
of outcomes. Um's that halt nature loss.
So if we can get those lined up in particular, we're going to
see the right kind of enabling environment for business to be
able to move faster. Well good luck for the rest of
your time here and thanks so much with.
As I taking time out of your day to spend, spend a few moments
with us. Thank you so much.
It's been great to be here with you.
And we're all really looking forward to the outcomes and
we'll see where we are a year from now, I'm sure it's going to
be even better. So we've seen some of the
world's largest companies here with us over this week, I
mentioned Walmart earlier and there are actually a lot of
sectors represented, but obviously agriculture is high on
the agenda. The global food system is the
primary driver of biodiversity loss with agriculture alone,
being the identified threat of more than 85% of the 28,000
species at risk of Extinction. So some see reform is part of
this discussion, the B team and business for nature released a
report. Estimating that the world spends
at least one point eight trillion dollars a year on the
subsidies that are driving the destruction of species and
ecosystems. I heard also mention this week,
the about 500 billion, dollars of that annually is for
agriculture and Target. 18 is about subsidy reform and that's
getting a lot of air time from businesses.
Here at the conference. I've also heard about the
greater need for support for farmers and indeed greater
engagement with Farmers as those stewards of land.
One of those sharing that message was Owen Bethel.
Nestle. And I was able to catch up with
him to hear why he's here and his hopes for cop and some of
the things Nestle is working on. So, and it's such a pleasure to
be here with you. And thanks so much for joining
us in no problem. Pleasure to be here, maybe let's
just start with know why is it so important for this lady to be
here at got 15, being a big food and beverage company.
We have a impact on the land and that impact comes through our
supply chain, through all of the ingredients that we purchase
from different parts of the world.
And I think there's a growing awareness inside the company and
Course with our interactions with stakeholders about the
importance of addressing that impact.
And so we've done a lot of work on the climate side.
We have a net zero commitment, the roadmap, which is well
underway. But on the nature side, I think
we need to look at that in more detail.
And we need to understand the emerging policy Trends.
The emerging stakeholder views on that topic and also
contribute positively to this discussion to create a ambitious
outcome. Not only for us, but for other
companies and Society in general.
And on that, what are the outcomes that you're hoping for
out of coffee 15? Speaking for your sector and
finesse a, I think, first and foremost, a deal of some
description. So I think it's important for
them to agree. A global biodiversity framework,
which sets the rules and the ground rules.
If you like for progress in the future from different countries
and they will have some Freedom obviously to implement that
biodiversity framework as they see fit.
But it's really important. We actually have one and that we
don't come away from here with with no deal as has happened at
some previous discussions. I think the And topics are
really around a objective to Halt and start to reverse, the
loss of nature by 2030, similar to the Paris agreement and the
Net Zero ambition. We also don't want to see
progress on things like rules on disclosure and reporting for
companies and a discussion around the role of incentives
and what role they play for farmers and in particular, the
agricultural sector and how that can create a more positive
incentive structure for them in the future.
I don't know. Yesterday, listening to you
speak at the world wide diversity Summit, you.
I had some points to make around substance or see.
That's part of the negotiations this week is really.
You can share with us on that. Yes.
So we're here supporting the business for nature coalition's,
call to action which is around mandatory reporting for
companies of a certain size around their impacts and
dependencies on nature, but also around reforming
environmentally, harmful subsidies.
I think the argument we want to make is that there's a positive
way of redirecting money. So if we look at what we're
doing, as a company with Farmers, we're looking to reward
them for the work practices. Which are less environmentally
damaging. And if we could start to
structure public incentives in the same way, I think we can
create win-win for both ourselves for the farmer and for
governments, which are looking to enhance and protect
biodiversity in their, in their territories.
Even despite the fact that you have communities who cannot be
able, probably to write proposals, they are there other
alternatives to take photographs.
So, staying on this topic of land stewards, we have heard so
much this week about the role of indigenous, peoples, and local
communities. Particularly when it comes to
meeting that 30 by 30 ambition. And how Oh, they can be better
supported this following stat has been used quite a few times.
We can't seem to find where it's come from, but that six percent
of the world's population is indigenous people looking after
20% of the land containing 80% of the biodiversity.
So we really can't underestimate how crucial is to support those
land stewards. So indigenous delegates here are
calling for the integration of indigenous land rights knowledge
and financing to resolve this 30 by 30 conservation targets.
It sharing an example of some of the work taking place in South
America by indigenous peoples, was Paul Rosalie and author,
filmmaker from Jungle Keepers. So I was thrilled to catch up
with him. For the last 17 years, I've been
working with the indigenous people of the Peruvian Amazon,
in some of the most intact, ancient biologically diverse
Forest on Earth. And our mission is to protect
the Ancient Forest so much gets lost, where people think we can,
we can, we can replant forests, you can't because these ancient
trees hold more carbon their home to more wildlife and
they'll take centuries for them to grow back.
So we're trying to protect the Ancient Forest, establish an
ecological Corridor and were working with The indigenous
people were giving gold miners and loggers jobs as Rangers.
We're working with the indigenous communities to secure
threatened habitat. We're doing everything we can to
establish this car door before it's too late.
And as you pointed out in your speech, just now, it's all about
livelihoods and creating economic alternatives for some
of the loggers. So if you can share a little bit
more about the training, how are you working with that?
Well, I mean, you can't ask someone that can't put food on
the table for their To protect the rainforest, they're going to
do whatever they need to do to get food for their children.
So what we do is we go to people that are at legal gold miners
and we say, why don't you work as a ranger?
And so, you are getting a full time job.
They're getting benefits. They very respectful profession
that they're recognized for. And so we're really transforming
these people's livelihoods, you know, and we're learning from
them too because it's like you know, you don't want to we've
heard of conservation efforts that come in and, you know, make
these broad rules. We're going down there and
saying, look what do you need to have?
To protect this. And a lot of times they go, we
wish we could protect it, but there's no resources here.
There's no jobs. And so what we've been doing
with age of Union, which is another montreal-based
organization, is providing those jobs as Rangers as boat drivers
as chefs as guides all these different things.
And it's of how we're having amazing results because we're
actually protecting that forest and there's millions and
millions of wild heart beats and endangered species and
undiscovered medicines that are within that Forest, as well as
tribes of people that are so isolated that they Communicate
with the outside world and we're hearing a lot got 15 about the
role of indigenous peoples and how we need to support them in
their role of supporting biodiversity and what are your
sort of key messages for the negotiators at got 15 to listen?
They really the this is a time to listen because you know we're
coming from these countries where we you know in the in the
in the u.s. we D forested 97 percent of the original Forest,
cover that existed before Europeans arrived.
And you know, so You go to a country like Brazil and say,
this is what you should do with your Forest.
Now some people say, oh you have no right to tell them that but
it's a different Century, we know things.
Now we know that if we ruin the Amazon rainforest, it will have
Global impacts for us. So there is an equitable way to
do this. And like I said today, and my
speech, you cannot protect the whole thing from the start but
you have to start somewhere to protect the whole thing.
And the best way to do that is on the ground, in the
communities asking a local people with your territory.
How do you envision protecting it?
Providing For them to do that without coming in and sort of
giving them something that doesn't know, one size fits, all
you know, Westerner northerner plan, that's just going to feel
abrasive to them feel cologne, cuddle, colonialist, so Finance,
it's bigger than the agenda obviously, for a project like
yours initiative, funding is crucial.
Yes, are you looking for funding from governments?
Is it from philanthropy? Is it from corporates?
What would help? What would help?
All of those? We've been relying on on funding
from philanthropists and corporate.
We need more right now, we're protecting 50,000 acres, and
we're trying to protect 250,000 acres and so we're about 20
million away from our goal. And so, yes, we're looking for
funding. But the key here is that
eventually we can't rely on funding funding is a Runway to
get to the point where you can create a sustainable future.
And then you you you helped set up projects, like, Brazil nut,
harvesting Ranger programs ecotourism, local local products
that can sustain the region and then the people can make what
they needed. To survive the forest is
protected and then you don't need to be continually going out
for charity, which just doesn't work.
It becomes a money pit. Well, I can hear the Clapping
sending from inside so they're probably coming out and moment.
Just say thank you so much for getting the message out through
amazing story, telling, and film.
And for all the work that you're doing.
It's lovely to be here and talk to you today.
Thank you for helping us get the message out in for anybody
listening. Please go to junk a DOT org.
Find us on Instagram at jungle Keepers.
Help us protect this Forest. It really is in our hands right
now. That he had fished that since he
was a child and he said that it was a place that he hoped that
he could one day, bring his children.
And so a year later we returned with conservationists from
around the world to document this untouched ecosystem.
But when we returned to the lake, what we found was
terrifying, the lake was gone. And everything was burned.
I said, where are we? And my friend turned with tears,
in his eyes and said, planet earth - one Lake Most people
haven't seen the sand storms that are in the Amazon
rainforest. And in case you missed that,
I'll say it again. There's a human-caused desert
forming in the headwaters of the Amazon rainforest, illegal gold
miners have cleared over 100,000 acres of primary Forest a scar
on the face of this planet. That is visible from space, and
this isn't the only threat facing this region.
Each year, we also watches the Amazon fires, continue to eat
away at habitat in the Madre de dios.
We see it every day, tentacles of the trans Amazon Highway
spreading like a cancer. This is the front lines of the
sixth Extinction, the conquest of paradise.
And finally, to lead us out of this brief, run-through of some
of the most incredible discussions happening here at
coffee stain and the negotiations, my former co-host.
If she'll let me call her that Jessica Smith nature lead.
Unep fi join me to share her experience, the convention and
the work that still needs to be done.
So just carry, it's so good to see it would not be a unep GFI
cop podcast without you. So, I'm so glad that we've
caught you here at the conference.
Oh, thank you. So, Much Helen.
It's always a pleasure so well I guess you know what we have you
your everywhere this week. So tell us, you know what's been
interesting from your point of view?
Well, for me, the most interesting event was I was able
to meet with the president of the United Nations indigenous
peoples forum and he really emphasized to me the important
role that editions people play in stewarding nature and already
18 percent of the world is stewarded by indigenous peoples
but they don't have land rights necessarily in all.
Countries. So just recognizing indigenous
land rights would get us you know, quite a lot of the way
towards the 30 by 30 targets. So that was very eye-opening
here, it's amazing. The amount of discussion this
week about bringing indigenous peoples in.
It's been really eye-opening. So fantastic to hear that stat
as well. Thank you.
And anything else you wanted to mention?
Yes. So undp launch the biodiversity
credits Alliance and it's really one of the hot topics of this
whole conference. We've heard some debate that
biodiversity credits could maybe be called biodiversity
certificates to avoid the idea that biodiversity can be debited
and credited the way that carbon in our atmosphere clearly can.
So, you know, we're hearing a lot of nuance in that debate.
That's a really interesting point.
And in fact, I keep hearing biodiversity credits, there's a
lot of side events happening this week.
So I think maybe something will pick up on next year in the
podcast to, and but also unify. PRI and the finance.
Biodiversity pledge, we heard from Anita and Sonia.
Earlier today without statement today.
So exciting news, tell us about that.
Wonderful. So we had 150 representatives of
the private Finance sector who are calling on governments to
conclude this agreement in the coming days.
So this is the largest group of private Finance.
Signatories to such a statement before representing 24 trillion
in assets under management, which is, you know, very
significant and effectively. They're saying to government's.
If you can conclude this agreement, you know, we, we can
move. Towards couldn't make Montreal
align portfolios. The way that we have moved
towards Paris aligned of portfolios.
Any other key issues that you're working on this week regarding
the negotiations certainly. So as un staff we are supporting
the countries in the negotiations were helping her
out wherever we can we are seeing a lot of support for the
gold D, calling for the alignment of the financial
flows, but developing country Global South parties, really
want to make sure that it's clearly not instead of aid but
as a compliment, Aid. So they want to avoid a smoke
and mirrors where you know, we say well we're going to align
all the finance but they don't get cash in hand.
We are also expecting that. All of the national,
biodiversity strategy and action plans will be immediately
updated after this cop. So normally there's sort of a
year or so delay before that happens, but we are ready to go,
undp unep the global environment facility, and the CBD
Secretariat are all All ready to go to help parties.
Basically you know, from q1 next year to update their and be saps
the national biodiversity strategy and action plans.
And for the first time these will all have Finance, plans
attached to them. And we're working with the undp
bio fan initiative. Also to try to identify
opportunities within 136, Jeff eligible, countries for private
Finance. So, this is a total revolution
in the way that And finance has been thought of for biodiversity
in this process. So it's very exciting and we are
looking at what opportunities are there, 2D risk, which is
excellent. So, I want to keep you cause I
know you're super busy, but just briefly hopes and concerns
education's talk to Rafael. I would just say, my only
concern is that, you know, there's so much to do to reach
the 2030 Target, but there is such a lot of momentum.
So, you know, we just need, you know, to keep going at PACE to
hold two perverse nature lost by the end of the decade.
Well, that is it from us, at financing nature in Montreal,
the music is playing and the bins are being emptied.
So I think that's our cue to go. There's a way still to go
obviously with the negotiations, but hopefully, we've brought you
up to speed. There's still time to influence
those negotiations. Of course.
Our next cop 15 episode in partnership with unit will be in
January, 20, 23, where we'll be looking at the Comes of the
conference and importantly, how we can reach those targets
agreed in the global, biodiversity framework.
The devil is going to be in the delivery and that resource
mobilization as we know. So Andrew Mitchell will be our
first guest next year and will also be focusing in the early
months of the year. On those practical aspects of
delivery, on both the risk and opportunity side, you can find
out more about what we do. And of course about the podcast
and the case studies, and also sign up to our newsletter on our
website www.rittenhouse.ca Institute .co.uk /gf I Hive we
launched an investment Readiness tool kit in December during cop.
So I'd love you to go and take a look at that and see if maybe we
can use that to help you in your work.
It's been an incredible year for us at financing nature since we
launched the progress one year ago and we've had more than
20,000 listens. So thank you so much for your
interest in this topic. The work that you do and your
support for the podcast. So until next year from us at
financing nature, ER with GFI and our partners at the UN
environment program. This cop season we wish you a
very restful and refreshing break.
If that is what is on your agenda?
I know it's definitely on mine and we look forward to seeing
you hearing youth speaking to you in 2023.