Hi, I'm Helen Avery with the Green Finance Institute and
you're listening to Financing Nature.
In this episode, I'm joined by Tom Curtis, founding partner of
Three Keel and the Landscape Enterprise Networks, or Lens.
The fields, the farms and the landscapes where your crops are
grown, they're basically they're an extension of your factory
production line, aren't they? So if those fields, farms and
landscapes are kind of struggling because of poor soils
or water logging or drought or costs of inputs, essentially
that's your production line that's struggling.
And and it's the kind of vital signs of resilience really.
You know, you know, how reliable are livelihoods.
If the farmers livelihoods are insecure, then then again, your
supply chain, just practical purposes, your supply chain is
not secure. The more we can put risk numbers
and then financial numbers on that resilience so that
businesses can understand what costs they're exposed to if they
don't take action on that, the more the more they can calibrate
and engage on that fundamental resilience perspective.
Hello, hello. I hope you're having a lovely
day wherever you are and whatever you're doing.
I'm going to be joined today by Tom Curtis of Three Keel and
we're going to be talking about the lens model and that's
landscape Enterprise networks and they bring together
companies that share landscapes to collectively pay farmers.
Farmers in particular that is to make environmental improvements
to support with business resilience and their Scope 3
reporting. And it's a model that has been
successfully rolled out across Europe.
It did start in the UK and we'll be talking about that and also
what we need to really take these collective action models
to scale. Tom, thank you so much for
joining us today from sunny Oxford.
It is sunny. It's such a pleasure, Helen.
Thanks so much for inviting me. I'm super excited to talk to you
today about landscape enterprise networks and all the great work
that they're doing in terms of mobilising private sector
investment into lots of environmental outcome delivery
that we'll go into more detail about.
But first of all, it'd just be really great to know a little
bit more about you. What's your background?
How did you end up Co founding 3 Keel?
And then we'll go into how Lens came out of that.
So, yeah, I started out actually in, in forestry, initially
trained in forestry and worked for quite some time in inch
woodland restoration. After that I, I was interested
in forests and the and other landscapes as well.
So I swayed to some people to say, let me take on managing a
sort of farm, a mixed estate based in Oxfordshire in my 30s.
And yeah, I was interested in resilience, sustainable Land
Management and I guess set up 3 kill because I was aware that
it's not just about how you manage the land, it's about how
you manage the supply chains that come into the land.
It's about the, you know, wider commercial relationships with
land that that gives us the pattern of of our landscapes as
much as what we do as land managers.
So yeah, like that. Really.
So, so talk us through three kill and then how Lens came out
of three kill. Sure thing.
Yeah. Well, three Q is it's a
sustainability business or AB Corp social purpose business.
We started out about 12 years ago.
We work largely in food supply chains, although not
exclusively. And we do a lot of work around
kind of managing sustainability as sort of incoming risks to
businesses. So we manage our analyse
business risk essentially as a means of getting organisations
to really spend their kind of deep money on sustainability and
think structurally about what they do.
And through that work, as I'm imagining, but tell me if I'm
wrong, that it was through that work, working with businesses
that you could see there was this need for a model perhaps
that worked for businesses to be able to pay farmers or land
managers to deliver for the businesses, business resilience.
So yeah, can you sort of for those who don't know about
landscape enterprise networks and lenses, they call for short,
could you just give us the the explainer on what they do?
Actually, it's interesting, you know, it just sort of wind back
a bit in a, in a sense it, it absolutely, yes, came out of
experience in Breekeel that businesses have needs, they have
dependencies, practical dependencies on landscapes.
They need product into their factories from landscapes or, or
they might be flooded from landscapes or there might be a
water company interested in raw water quality, that sort of
stuff. But I mean, the, the roots of
them started when I was managing a farm really, you know, I was
aware when I was managing a farm in Oxfordshire that we were
managing it in what we call now regenerative way in many
respects, you know, extended rotation.
We had animals on temporary grass lathes within the
rotation, reducing inputs, building resilience across the
whole farm system in essence. And the reason we were doing it
was because we wanted to kind of manage the volatility of our
finances. There were lots of lots of, you
know, high returns, but high costs and a lot of volatility
which meant margin was always a bit hairy.
And I guess we were doing that and I was I was kind of aware
that our off takers who were benefiting practically from what
we were doing or could benefit practically from what we were
doing. There were water company, local
communities, in essence, you know, we were providing more
reliable crop. We're also not our soils weren't
washing down into rivers or onto roads.
You know, there's value being that we were delivering, but
there wasn't a mechanism for the king people up to transact with
us, to connect with us, to work with us in that investment on
that farm. And we didn't really connect
with the food manufacturers that were using it.
And even if they had connected with us, we were only one farm.
We were only one small part of the their problem, if you like,
or you'd see to build resilience.
And I guess the other thing was that for anyone one of those
businesses, it wouldn't have made business sense for them to
have invested in our resilience or that landscape's resilience.
But if they all acted together, it made absolute sense for every
single one of them to invest. There's a problem, there's a
challenge and collective action here essentially and that we're
trying to address with Lens. Well, that's super interesting
because you're saying it sort of came from like the grassroots up
from the ground up from the farmer level up this idea.
And then I, I suppose sort of married with the experience that
you're having in 3K working with the supply chain that the model
emerged. Tell us how you know.
How did it end up happening? And in essence, when we set up 3
Kill, I was pretty, it was a thing I had on my mind, a
mechanism like lens that would connect up those interests and
connect them with farmers. And so the way it happened was
that, yes, 3 Kill, we worked with lots of food companies.
We've worked for a very long time with Nestle.
So we contacted Nestle and talked to them about our idea
basically. And Nestle have a factory up in
Cumbria. It's a it's a dairy processing
factory and they're interested in managing reliability and
resilience of, of the farmers in their supply shed around that
factory, essentially the dairy farms.
And we talked to them about how they might build that resilience
through investing in farms, investing in soils, investing in
farm systems, investing in nature based solutions that
would would bolster the reliability of supply
essentially for, for Nessay and also address things like scope
through emissions and farmer livelihoods essentially.
And, and we put it to them that perhaps they might be able to do
that and transact that they might want to do it in
conjunction with others in the landscape.
And in particular, we suggested maybe with United Utilities, the
water company that that actually was, had different needs and
interest to them in that landscape.
They were interested in Bosphorus management and
localised flood risk management. But actually the same solutions
on those farms would be solutions for United Utilities
as well As for Nestle. We kind of hatched this idea of
calling it a landscape enterprise network and that's
they said, yeah, well, let's give it a whirl.
And, and we thought, well, that's great.
And we were naive enough to think it would be really
straightforward. It isn't at all.
But we got the two to collaboratively fund common
interest solutions in in that landscape.
And and that's kind of how it kicked off, really.
And maybe we'll come back to how you manage those complexities
because you say you've got in that particular model in Cumbria
and I know we'll talk about some of the other models across
Europe. You just say you've got 2 sort
of corporate entities, if you will.
And then I mean, how many farmers are in the in the mix in
that one, do you know? Yeah.
A few dozen farmers essentially were involved and they were,
they were working with with first milk at the time who, who
were the people who coordinate that work for, for Nestle
essentially so. Right.
So, yeah, a lot of contracting between those lots of parties to
bring together really certainly on the farming front if it's a
few dozen farmers. So before we sort of go into
like how does it work, you know, what have the challenges been?
Could you just sort of give an overview for everyone listening
of the models that you do have working and the sort of success
story behind it? Because I know it's been
difficult. As you say, it wasn't an easy
thing to do, but you've got the first one off the ground and
then since have added several. So well, so Lenz, it's, it's
operating across several countries in Europe now.
So we've got really live ones where there are transactions
happening in East of England. That's probably our our most
active one actually most live one biggest one in in Yorkshire.
We're operating in in the Leven in Scotland, we're operating in
West Wales. We're also operating in Poland
in Northeast Italy, up in the Veneto region in Italy where we
work with the Prosecco consortium along with others and
then in Transdanubia, which is sort of Western Hungary.
So quite, quite a range of of countries.
We're also exploring Lens in other places, but those, those
are the really live ones we've transacted yet quite a lot.
And since 2020, €137,000,000, those have all gone directly
into farms. That's total number that's gone
to farmers to pay for measures on farms that are building
resilience, building regenerative agricultural
systems and nature waste solutions operating this year
across about 80,000 hectares. Also we report on carbon as
well. So it's about last year, I think
it was 49,000 tonnes of carbon were some questions all reduced
through the work that we do. So it's it's scaling and it
scales every year. It gets bigger every year, yeah.
Yeah. I know last time we spoke you
mentioned how you anticipate sort of just at the current rate
without even any sort of an injection of investment into the
lens model for scoping etcetera that you'd anticipated will
double every year the number of transactions.
That's been the experience to date.
Yeah. I mean, if you carried on doing
that well, do the maths, it would, it would be.
I mean, there's, there's a big need.
And when you can crack that kind of collective action challenge
and get, you know, collaborative funding into a landscape and put
it out to farmers to do practical measures that bring
about genuine transformation, genuine change to the risk
metrics and the carbon metrics, then everyone wins.
And what I love about Lens is that, you know, it is kind of
the solution that we're all looking for is how do you create
the revenue model? How do you get buyers to
transact with the sellers who are effectively land managers or
farmers or they might be communities.
I mean, you could replace farmers with with any land
manager really, couldn't you? I suppose.
And then and yeah, there. And how do you bring corporates
together around a landscape and have like a regional impact?
So maybe you could sort of share with us what are the challenges
around that model? Because in theory it sounds
easy, doesn't it? Or you just go into a landscape
and there are several corporates who all have shared interests.
And then you go to the land managers and ask them to deliver
communities or the farmers ask them to deliver.
Oh, how simple that would be, as you say, but it but it's just
not. So can you share with us some of
the journey that you've gone on? Because I sort of think of all
all the models that I've seen, you've really nailed how you do
this quite swiftly and how you manage all those contracts that
are, you know, bilateral contracts effectively if I've
understood correctly. Or multilateral.
Contracts, that's right, that's. That's that's it, yeah.
I mean the the challenges are exactly as as you say, you've
got to get underneath the skin of what the demand is from
businesses. You know, what's their problem
statement, what's what are their issues?
And it's usually not just one. You need to be able to figure
out where those to overlap in a, in a landscape and overlap with,
you know, common interest solutions.
And then you've got to get out to a whole range of farmers and
come up with practical things that are meaningful on those
farms that actually will move the dialogue demand
specification on the need of needs of the buyers,
essentially. I mean, there's various elements
to it. Partly it's complexity and scale
in dealing with 10s of thousands of transactions, which so it's
about being really systematic, but it's also about being super
business. Like this is about commerce
essentially we're cutting commercial transactions here.
We're not trying to get people to fund things because it's the
right thing to do. We're doing it because it's
important to their business. And from the farmers
perspective, they're doing it because it invests in their
business, it gets them to where they need to get to and also
they're responding to a customer need essentially.
So we have to be transactional about it as well.
That's really critical and if if you're not like that, then you
just get lost in good words and good intentions and you don't
get to transaction points essentially.
And I guess the other thing, the other element that's really
important in terms of success, I think is, is recognising that
these are that there's a network, there's a human network
here that needs to be brought together, building trust and
understanding and expertise over time that again enables you to
achieve really high quality results whilst also transacting
and then also reporting against it.
So I don't know if that quite answers your question, but no.
It does, it does. And that point you make at the
end, I think I remember when we've spoken before that you've
said one of the things that's come out of lens that maybe you
weren't anticipating is that relationship between the buyers.
You said when you're a farmer, you, you, the crop goes on a
truck and off it goes. And that relationship maybe
doesn't get developed. But actually this these have
sort of brought together farmer at one end and the business at
the other. Completely.
So we, we specifically, I mean that's partly why it's so
important to do this regionally. So actually people talk with one
another and we specifically make efforts to curate those meetings
have get togethers throughout farming season essentially where
you see that farmers talking with their off takers, talking
with the water companies, the water companies, talking to the
off takers, the food manufacturers.
It builds a sense of well, it builds that understanding of
where collective problems or collective solutions that we can
work around. But alongside that critically,
it's not just that soft stuff. It is about having really well
embedded, well managed systematic brokering systems and
then contracts. Contracts that do that multi
party job and are efficient and people can rely on them but at
the same time aren't so complex and legalistic that they put
everyone off. Yeah.
Well, no, it's so practical and yet delivers for the environment
and for what businesses want and for what farmers want.
It's it hits everything we need. Can I just touch something you
mentioned earlier was about multiple buyers, I suppose or
payers of the ecosystem services that the farmers can deliver.
Can you just sort of share with us why that is needed and it
needs to be this collective action?
Yeah. I mean, and it's not all of
them, but it just it's important on various levels.
I mean the first most simple is that it enables organisations to
share costs essentially and that opens up solutions that wouldn't
be have a cost benefit analysis that makes sense for one of
those buyers. But when you put them together,
it's actually a cost effective means of doing things.
So that's really important. But then the second thing that's
super important and it comes back to how, you know how you
manage your farm is that you manage a whole farm system.
You don't just manage 1 crop. And so having resilient
regenerative wheat doesn't sort of make sense in and of itself.
It's about what other crops are there in that rotation.
What else are you doing across that farm that actually as a
whole makes the farm, makes the crops work together, makes your
sewer management, the regime and plan makes sense and your
nutrient management makes sense and also water management makes
sense. And so, so actually, if you want
to ask farmers coherent question or, or give them a coherent
specification for shifting the resilience of their farm
systems, you have to be asking it from the perspective of
multiple crops and others who aren't interested in crops.
You have to ask the full question, and that involves
multiple funders. I guess there's no maximum
number of funders you could have in a landscape.
And we've talked before about could you take like a whole
region like East Anglia and have infrastructure companies like
the highways and Network Rail who are going to be benefiting
as well from reduced flood risk or reduced water shortage risk.
What's your sort of view on how how far it could go?
I mean, ultimately, if you've got a mechanism that can do
those contracts and you've got willing farmers, land managers
to deliver, you can go anywhere. But, but tell us.
I think absolutely the more the better and particularly cross
sector, it really works and it really helps because then they
they really are funding different for different reasons,
but the same solutions. I think the reason why I think
yes, you could just do it with all the sectors that had a
practical, you know, material interest in those outcomes is
because within lens, we're not trying to pile all of those
organisations into each and every transaction in the on each
and every farm. It's kind of, it's like a set of
overlapping and less overlapping Venn diagrams, if you saw what I
mean. A lens region is made-up of a
live set of multiple transactions essentially, and
not everyone's involved in every single transaction or every
single part of every transaction.
So you've got optimised transactions, multiples of them
across the region. We build complexity over time
and that's that's how you absolutely patch those other
sectors in. So, yeah, if if there was, I
don't know, Network Rail or highways interested in in
transacting something in conjunction with some of our
food manufacturing players that that might only be happening in
one one area where they've got a particular flood risk issue or
there's a particular development that people are wanting to
unlock or something like that. They're not transacting across
the whole region. So it's made-up of multiple
transactions. So that's how we do it.
That's how you build that up. And yeah, the more the better.
Yeah, yeah, I love it. It's really a way of tackling a
whole regional or large landscape challenge, which can
be very complex as you say, because not everyone's solution
will be delivered by exactly the same farmer, exact same time of
year and. And Helen, that's really
important for real time resilience and sustainability
issues, you know, having really top line overarching silver
bullet solutions that don't take account of the granularity of,
of actually what needs to happen on the ground is just hiding to
nothing. You know, I don't think what
lens or mechanisms similar to lens need to be able to do and
do do in the case of lens is take a relatively simple widget
and and repeat it up across the landscape, repeat it multiple
times, but have a basic, a fundamentally simple system
that's achieving that. So maybe let's sort of bring a
bit of colour to the projects that are happening by talking
about the demand drivers. And one of the big challenges
that we face with these revenue models is, well, how do you get
corporates engaged? How do you get an off taker to
start paying for XYZ? So could you sort of share with
us what those demand drivers are, what type of companies are
paying and why they're paying? And and then also what are the
environmental outcomes that they're that they're they're
seeking? Sure thing.
Yeah, yeah, East of England on my mind.
I suppose they're, we're working with a number of range of
different companies. But we've got Purina, which is
Ted food manufacturer. They they're interested in
getting supplies of wheat from that landscape.
We've got Anglian Water, they're interested in water quality and
they're also interested in quantity.
So water resource essentially. We've got British sugar, they're
interested in again in reliable supply of of sugar beets from
that landscape. We've got a range of different
organisations. I guess they're the off takes
the food manufacturers that we're dealing with, they're
interested in reliable supply of crop and they're interested in
reportable GHE essentially scope 3 emissions.
That's what's going on there. And from from Anglian waters
perspective in that context, they're interested in, in the
landscape factors that can impact on water quality and
water resource. So just practical things like
that. And so then our job is to figure
out where they're common technical solutions that land in
the same locations that they're all interested in basically, or
various. And they're interested in a lot
of our transaction across all of our regions of Europe, common
factories or all of them involve food manufacturers to date.
Essentially, it's part of the flavour or what we do.
It's, it doesn't define exactly how lens would operate
everywhere, but it's kind of critical.
And food, they they come together and it's part will
always be important for humanity and.
Certainly Prosecco and. Certainly Prosecco.
Exactly. I think viticulture is a theme
that I'm very keen to expand across.
I mean, essentially the fields, the farms and the landscapes
where your crops are grown, basically they're an extension
of your factory production line, aren't they?
So, so if those fields, farms and landscapes are kind of
altering or, or struggling because of poor soils or water
logging or drought or costs of inputs, then that's essentially
that's your production line that's struggling and, and it's
just very practical like that. And so from their perspective, I
think ultimately the metrics would be those really for them.
Can they get reliable feedstock in and it's kind of analogous to
to water companies. So I sort of think that the
reason they're participating is, well, it's kind of the reason.
If you look out at the kind of fields and landscapes and
reservoirs at the moment, you know, having had one of the dry
springs on record following last year when we had one of the
wettest springs on record, you know, they can and should be and
could and should be looking at those things.
But also they're all interested in reportable stuff as well,
particularly carbon. And I think it's really
important when we put our transactions together that we're
aware of, of delivering against those.
So absolutely reportable carbon, absolutely reportable
biodiversity outcomes. But from our perspective, you
know, it's the, it's the kind of vital signs of resilience
really, you know, you know, how reliable are livelihoods, if the
farmers livelihoods are insecure, then then again, your
supply chain, just practical purposes, your supply chain is
not secure. One of the things we've
discussed in the past, actually, Helen, is, is the more we can
put risk numbers and then financial numbers on that
resilience so that businesses can understand what costs
they're exposed to if they don't take action on that, the more
they can calibrate and engage on that fundamental resilience
perspective. It's not to say that carbon
outcomes and biodiversity outcomes per SE are not
important, but you know, as we move into a volatile world, more
and more volatile world, I think that, you know, raw material
risk is going to be a significant deep business
motivator. I kind of feel if we're going to
do this in a way which stands the test of time, we have to be
putting numbers on and factoring in business resilience as a core
driver here and not just people reporting things that they sort
of feel right now that they need to report.
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. I think it's, you know, the big
thing we lack is demand drivers. And what lens shows is actually
they, they exist. I mean, you were transacting
before TNFD, but this is really what TNFD is built for, isn't
it, To help companies figure out what are your dependencies and
what's actually the risk you have at the moment with climate,
nature degradation compounding one another.
But if you say that gap we have at the moment is maybe of
costing out those risks for businesses so that we can push
them to make these transactions and Lens is the vehicle through
which that can be done. Yeah.
We've, we've got to, we've got to help business more generally
to understand those risks. But what we've shown is that
when when you're recognising that and you're wanting to
obtain solutions in the landscape and you recognise that
it makes sense to do that with others collaborating on the
demand side, being linked to farmers who are collaborating on
the supply side, that that won't just magically happen.
You need scaffolding to do that. You need efficient practical
mechanism and scaffolding through which that happens.
And that's and that's contracts and systems.
Tom, one thing I think it'd be really great for us to talk
about is how you assess and measure the impacts of those
environmental outcomes. Yeah, monitoring, reporting,
verification, it's utterly critical.
We've got a fairly sophisticated well developed MRV setup and
protocol we operate initially it's just two primary functions,
but then a third really important function that comes
out of that. The first one is monetary
reporting verification. It, it, it's verifying that the
stuff that you contracted to happen on the ground has
actually happened, you know, and we need to show that.
And so, so the second really important thing it's doing, of
course, is reporting back to the customers, to the man's side
that yes, it's happened. But also actually you're, you're
getting your functional outcomes, you're actually
starting, you're getting the carbon results and ultimately
you're getting, you know, the livelihoods, soil health, water
resilience, those resilience outcomes as well.
So, so it's actually functionally as it happening.
The third thing that I think a kind of MRV system really,
really can do with lens and it's starting to do with lens, it's,
it's an adaptive learning feedback loop.
We've got massive amounts of data we're creating on what
agronomy does in terms of outcomes.
And that enables us then to start to learn from that and
aggregate that and understand it and feed that back to what it is
that farmers might do and what what it is that we ought to be
transacting. What should be prioritising and
what and, and what doesn't work quite so well from our
perspective, those three things are what's integrated into MRV.
The way we do MRV is it's largely outsourced in terms of
the collection of data. So we're with amazing partners
on on MRV, including farmers who do things like Geo tagged photos
to show that stuff happened on the ground.
But increasingly in conjunction with that we can work with
remote sensing, that kind of stuff.
So we outsource that practical data collection, but the
collation of it, the quality assurance of it and the analysis
and allocation of it is done centrally essentially.
Because obviously it has to be compliant with protocols and it
has to be properly accounted for and not double counted.
It has to adhere to rules. And and that's, that's expertise
that we we manage and need to manage centrally.
And it's of course lens comes from the three keel stable,
which is right at the forefront to all that stuff.
So we're kind of quite good at it, really.
So I feel a little strange to end on a risk note, but Tommy,
you've clearly spent a lot of time thinking about this topic
of collective action. So are there any risks that you
see with these models as they emerge?
Well, I mean, the challenges are the ones, you know, I talked
about at the beginning of the call in the Society of
businesses and farmers have these existential needs from,
from the land and, and we're never going to get away from
that. And that those needs are at risk
because of because of biophysical factors, climate
change, but also because of geopolitical and trade factors
as well. And and so that's those are the
big challenges and they ain't going away.
Essentially the way in which I see the nature markets evolving
and around that space and and needing to evolve are obviously
more of lens more, more of that sort of stuff.
But but critically, I think it's going to become increasingly
clear and we're going to increasingly learn that
financing landscapes actually has to be underpin, be
underpinned by commerce. I think that's really critical
and I think that's it. That's one part of how I see
this evolving and needing to evolve.
You need buyers to remove the nature product, if you like,
provides tangible value to their business, but then you can build
on that with finance to scale it.
So I think getting it back to fundamentals and delivering
business value is part of the evolution that needs to happen.
Actually. We just need to reroute this and
understand that actually fundamentally it's not just
about this is important for GDP or this is important for
society. It has to be important and
individualizable for each of the businesses that engage in this.
We need to get much better at that.
So I think that that tangible value given the kind of volatile
world we're facing into, that tangible value is going to
relate to material risk more and more, supply chain risk, flood
risk, risk to infrastructure. And I think I think the way this
is going to evolve is that that's going to be become the
prime mover essentially. I think that offset markets will
continue to be important. I think they really are
important, but I think those material risk markets and and
drivers, we really need to tap into them because they they cut
down to business fundamentals and they'll drive real scale of
action. And also they don't they're not
so at risk of of the kind of fragility we'd see within with
offsets, which which rely on legislation or market
expectations to do the right thing essentially.
So I guess my, my sort of cup half full feeling on this is I
think nature will be called business for multiple sectors in
the future because I think nature, we can use nature as a
sort of tool for securing business resilience.
And I think if we can do that in ways that are unlocked by
mechanisms like lens that allow pragmatic collective action.
And I think, I think that, I think that's how I see it
evolving and I think it actually can do proper transformative
change. I, I guess one of the concerns I
have sometimes is that you could, you could imagine this
marketplace kind of getting short circuited into a situation
where it became an exercise in data collection and reporting
and, and didn't associate that with the flow of funds and
support that goes into pharma networks.
And I think, I think there are significant risks there in that
what might result is that you you kind of get the illusion of
progress, but actually you get don't get the opportunity for
genuine transformation, for genuine action to happen on the
ground. We need collaborative supply
chain to make this work. This is these risks, this
resilience. There are common interest issues
that occur right from the primary production on the farms,
right through the factories, right through into retail, right
through them to into people's plates.
It's everyone's risks. We're all involved.
Those farmer fields are all part of our system essentially.
And so the solutions need to be invested in from across the
supply chain. Well, thank you so much, Tom,
for your time today. I think it's been a really great
way to wrap up our episodes, specifically on this sort of
collective action models of multiple corporates coming
together within this particular season.
And you've given us a lot of food for thought today.
So thank you so much for your time.
Thank you very much. And as ever, it's wonderful to
work in partnership with JFI and, yeah, work together to to
build resilient landscapes for a resilient society.
Well, that's it for this week. If you want to find out more
about LENS, you can go visit their website
thatslandscapeenterprisenetworks.com. LENS are of course alongside
Rimba Collective and the Fisheries Improvement Fund,
among the models that the revenues for Nature initiative
with ourselves and UNFFI and UNDP Biofin are supporting to
replicate and scale. And you can find out more about
LENS by checking out that work. Next week, Emily McKenzie is
going to be joining me from the TNFD, the task force on nature
related financial disclosures. And we'll be catching up on
where the TNFD is right now, what's happening, as well as
looking at how we move from disclosures into investment and
touching on transition plans. And then as we glide into the
end of this season, we have FSD Africa, TNC, Tim Male from Epic,
and the wonderful Justin Adams from Astara.
So I hope you have a great week. Until next time.