1 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,800 Hi, I'm Helen Avery from the green Finance Institute and 2 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,100 you're listening to financing nature from GFI. 3 00:00:20,100 --> 00:00:23,500 Hive joining me. This episode is Eric let singer 4 00:00:23,700 --> 00:00:27,100 founder of outcomes based Capital firm Quantified Ventures 5 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,800 to talk about the Innovative financing for nature-based. 6 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,200 Solutions that they are doing including environmental impact 7 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:38,300 bonds. Governments are looking at Green 8 00:00:38,300 --> 00:00:41,800 infrastructure, all over the place, and nobody wants to be 9 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:43,400 first. Nobody wants to be second. 10 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,000 Everybody wants to be 25th by putting a financial model out 11 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,200 there. That made it a rational choice 12 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,500 for the second. Third, fourth, fifth, and sixth, 13 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,300 what's happening is it's starting to become normal, 14 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,500 right? And so our whole job is to make 15 00:00:57,500 --> 00:01:00,800 things normal and boring financial markets, love 16 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,100 transactions. They can turn a crank and do a 17 00:01:03,100 --> 00:01:06,200 thousand of them every day. That's our job to create. 8 18 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,500 Simple, non bespoke transactions that are consumable by the 19 00:01:10,500 --> 00:01:15,100 capital markets without having to have long conversations in 20 00:01:15,100 --> 00:01:17,300 the conference room over bed sandwiches. 21 00:01:22,100 --> 00:01:25,800 A warm, welcome everyone to episode 5 and an exciting one 22 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:30,000 today, and another nerdy one. If you're into Innovative called 23 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,700 structures for financing MBS which we all are and we have a 24 00:01:33,700 --> 00:01:35,800 treat for you because Eric, let's singer. 25 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,100 Founder of Quantified. Ventures will be joining me. 26 00:01:38,100 --> 00:01:41,400 Momentarily, Quantified Ventures is an outcome based Capital 27 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,500 firm. That means they develop projects 28 00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:47,600 where environmental and social outcomes are essentially sold to 29 00:01:47,700 --> 00:01:50,700 The Fisheries to create financing model that allows 30 00:01:50,700 --> 00:01:52,800 upfront investment in interventions. 31 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,400 Be that green infrastructure for water quality enhancement. 32 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:01,800 In d.c. carbon and water quality improvements on farms in Iowa, 33 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,500 or the development of recreational activities that 34 00:02:04,500 --> 00:02:08,800 benefit state forests and Rural economies in Southern Ohio, many 35 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:09,900 more. But those are the ones we're 36 00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:13,000 going to touch on today. Not so not so discuss including 37 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,700 what Quantified Ventures is doing next. 38 00:02:15,900 --> 00:02:23,700 So let's get a Recon. Well, welcome Eric and thank you 39 00:02:23,700 --> 00:02:26,200 so much for joining us today. What a pleasure to be here. 40 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,500 Thanks Helen. So nice to see you before we 41 00:02:28,500 --> 00:02:32,100 dive straight into Quantified Ventures outcomes based 42 00:02:32,100 --> 00:02:34,600 Investments and environmental impact bonds. 43 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,500 And I don't think you and I have ever spoken about how you ended 44 00:02:38,500 --> 00:02:41,600 up founding Quantified Ventures. So, to start with. 45 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,400 I just love to hear about you. And how did that? 46 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,900 How did that will happen? Sure, I have spent a third of my 47 00:02:46,900 --> 00:02:50,200 career in the public sector. After third of my career in the 48 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,200 private sector, third of my career in the nonprofit sector, 49 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,900 love all three generally have found that each one of them is 50 00:02:57,900 --> 00:03:00,800 fantastic at something and super lousy at something. 51 00:03:01,300 --> 00:03:06,700 And so I've always enjoyed doing work at the intersection of 52 00:03:06,700 --> 00:03:11,400 those three sectors that requires each sector to bring 53 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,800 with their super duper great at and perhaps leave behind what 54 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:19,200 they're not so good at. And so I've operated In the 55 00:03:19,900 --> 00:03:22,900 education, space the health space, the environmental space, 56 00:03:22,900 --> 00:03:26,100 the housing space, then mostly just been a Performance 57 00:03:26,100 --> 00:03:30,200 Management guy, measuring outcomes and then when I read 58 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,900 about the growth of impact Capital, this is back in 2014, I 59 00:03:34,908 --> 00:03:39,700 had never heard of it before. Here was a source of capital 60 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,800 that was trying to get connected with outcomes impact, right? 61 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:48,400 And so that felt thrilling the impact Bond model. 62 00:03:48,500 --> 00:03:52,300 Model which started in the UK and came to the US. 63 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:58,400 Got my attention as a model that could perhaps attract that 64 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,300 impact Capital to projects that were meaningful and and that 65 00:04:02,300 --> 00:04:05,000 were stuck for a variety of reasons. 66 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,000 We're having a hard time attracting the funding or the 67 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,700 financing. So we set out to see if we could 68 00:04:11,700 --> 00:04:15,800 deploy outcomes based Financial transactions where impact 69 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:21,899 investors were essentially taking Bet on initiatives, based 70 00:04:21,899 --> 00:04:26,500 on whether they would yield the outcomes that were predicted and 71 00:04:26,500 --> 00:04:30,100 then if it seemed like at the time that these investors would 72 00:04:30,100 --> 00:04:31,800 be willing. And we've since prove this, to 73 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,400 be the case, they're willing to put their money where their 74 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:39,900 mouth is meaning directly tie their return on investment to 75 00:04:39,900 --> 00:04:42,500 whether outcomes are actually produced or not. 76 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,400 A lot of how we finance a lot of our public projects in the 77 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:51,300 United States is most Mostly through debt where we the 78 00:04:51,300 --> 00:04:54,100 government borrow a whole bunch of money and then we have to 79 00:04:54,100 --> 00:04:57,000 repay that money regardless of whether the thing worked or not. 80 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:03,000 And so trying to shift some of those models to be more outcomes 81 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,700 oriented and therefore sort of align the incentives of 82 00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:11,200 investors and governments and ngos seemed like a worthy 83 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,000 Pursuit and that's how we got started. 84 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,100 That's fantastic. And just to confirm here, when 85 00:05:16,100 --> 00:05:22,400 you said that the Act fund model started in the UK were talking 86 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,200 social impact funds and then you correct adapted it for 87 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,100 environment. Correct. 88 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,500 Brilliant. And I wonder if you could sort 89 00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:35,200 of talk us through a couple of the deals that you've done to 90 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,800 me, you're like the Godfather of environmental impact bonds and 91 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,500 so. So I wonder if we could start 92 00:05:40,500 --> 00:05:43,900 off talking about that one, because if because 15 inches put 93 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:46,400 together, the first environmental impact bond in the 94 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,200 US or globally. Ali correct. 95 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,200 Very, very exciting. Yes, and I'd be happy to unpack. 96 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,800 That particular one. So the first transaction that we 97 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,200 did was in 2016 and we did. I live here in Washington DC and 98 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:05,600 DC water is our water utility in Washington DC and they found 99 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,400 themselves in the classic quandary, where they were under 100 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,500 a consent decree, meaning they were required by the federal 101 00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:17,400 government to fix something. They had to fix their combined 102 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:18,800 sewer outflow. So, Them. 103 00:06:20,700 --> 00:06:26,100 And and if they didn't fix it, they they'd go to jail, right? 104 00:06:26,100 --> 00:06:29,800 So I mean, it's right, so, it's okay, enough toxin together. 105 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,400 It's quite an incentive, right people. 106 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,000 It gets people's attention and they had two choices. 107 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:41,400 They could spend about 2.7 billion dollars, building, gray, 108 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:46,200 infrastructure Solutions, more tunnels more cisterns or on the 109 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:47,900 other extreme. They could Implement a whole 110 00:06:47,900 --> 00:06:52,700 bunch of Nature-based solutions that would essentially solve the 111 00:06:52,700 --> 00:06:56,400 problem a different way. What you're having to do with 112 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,400 splitting combined sewers combined sewers means you just 113 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:05,000 got storm water and waste going through the same tube and with a 114 00:07:05,008 --> 00:07:08,600 fixed diameter. When you get increased storms, 115 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,800 which were having then by Design, but just sends it right 116 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,500 into the waterways during Peak flows. 117 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,900 So, you've got to widen the dynamic. 118 00:07:18,500 --> 00:07:22,100 Amateur of these sewer systems, which is expensive and gray. 119 00:07:22,100 --> 00:07:25,800 And nobody sees it, if that makes you just tear up all the 120 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,300 streets and then you have a wider sewer system underground 121 00:07:29,300 --> 00:07:31,300 and citizens are like, where did my money? 122 00:07:31,300 --> 00:07:35,300 Go, what happened? Okay, so you got that choice and 123 00:07:35,300 --> 00:07:37,600 then the other choice is a whole bunch of green infrastructure. 124 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,500 Can you put in a bunch of nature? 125 00:07:39,700 --> 00:07:46,800 350, Acres of just nature in the city to serve as a sponge to 126 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:51,900 soak up that Warm water and then slowly over a period of a few 127 00:07:51,900 --> 00:07:56,600 days trickle that precipitation, that's that you've captured in 128 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,300 the nature. If you can trickle that over a 129 00:07:59,300 --> 00:08:04,400 few days into the sewer system, can you slow down that Peak 130 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,700 volume. So that you're able to get all 131 00:08:07,700 --> 00:08:11,400 that storm, water through the pre existing tunnels that was 132 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,600 the theory. And so, if you think about those 133 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,700 two choices gray, infrastructure on one hand, green 134 00:08:16,700 --> 00:08:19,500 infrastructure on the other hand, We put those in the 135 00:08:19,500 --> 00:08:23,000 framing of business as usual on one hand and Innovation on the 136 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:28,200 other hand because of how our governments pay for everything, 137 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,800 which is borrow the money and then hope for the best. 138 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,100 We shouldn't be surprised when our government leaders pick 139 00:08:34,100 --> 00:08:38,500 business as usual every single day, right? 140 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:44,400 Because that's just smart. And so so we took a look at, how 141 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,200 would they pay for that? Great gray infrastructure, which 142 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,100 they're probably going to choose Choose and that would be through 143 00:08:50,100 --> 00:08:54,600 a municipal Bond structure. And so we got to work on messing 144 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:59,700 around with the municipal bond to see if we could tie the 145 00:08:59,700 --> 00:09:01,700 return on investment from the bond. 146 00:09:01,700 --> 00:09:05,800 Buyer directly to whether the green infrastructure actually 147 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,400 performed as predict or not. And we had that was like, nerd, 148 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:17,700 heaven and a ton of fun and the result was the first-ever 149 00:09:17,700 --> 00:09:21,800 municipal. On where the interest rate to 150 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,800 the bondholder was directly tied to whether the outcomes were 151 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,700 occurred in. Not and we're not marketing 152 00:09:29,700 --> 00:09:31,200 people. So we called it best, we can 153 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,400 come up with was an environmental impact Bond and 154 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,400 therefore, we had the first environmental impact on our 155 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,400 hands. Amazing, and of Interest. 156 00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:43,500 What was the difference in cost for the gray infrastructure 157 00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:46,600 versus green? If you look at them as pure 158 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:51,700 extremes and we too Be clear. It wasn't a choice of all one or 159 00:09:51,700 --> 00:09:54,700 all the other. It was a hybrid solution. 160 00:09:55,200 --> 00:10:00,100 How can we di risk, the green infrastructure enough to make it 161 00:10:00,100 --> 00:10:03,200 a rational choice for the government to choose it. 162 00:10:04,300 --> 00:10:08,200 And so, we were able to structure that environmental 163 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:13,700 impact bond in such a way that there was no increased cost of 164 00:10:13,700 --> 00:10:17,400 capital to the government, which he, that's the requirement. 165 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,500 Because if it's more Pensive then they're just going to 166 00:10:20,500 --> 00:10:22,700 choose the gray infrastructure all day long. 167 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:29,600 Yeah, so by making it the same cost of capital as the gray 168 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:34,500 infrastructure + D, risking it, we were able to in the nerd 169 00:10:34,500 --> 00:10:38,000 Heaven. Laboratory, create a financial 170 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,500 structure that made it a rational choice for the 171 00:10:40,508 --> 00:10:43,400 government to choose the green infrastructure, right? 172 00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:45,400 Devin? I love it. 173 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,800 And that one is a private placement to Goldman's and 174 00:10:48,808 --> 00:10:50,600 Calvert. Was that, was that right, 175 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,700 correct? It was the first one of these 176 00:10:52,700 --> 00:10:59,300 things and so you know issuing a bond through the normal 177 00:10:59,300 --> 00:11:03,100 channels. IE not private felt like a 178 00:11:03,100 --> 00:11:04,700 bridge too far in this first one. 179 00:11:04,700 --> 00:11:08,500 So we issued the first one as a private Bond, we've since issued 180 00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:12,700 many of these here in the United States and they're all different 181 00:11:12,700 --> 00:11:16,100 kinds, but, but that was the only privately placed one and we 182 00:11:16,100 --> 00:11:19,000 did that. Just because of the Unique 183 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,500 qualities of that first-of-a-kind transaction. 184 00:11:22,700 --> 00:11:27,400 I mean it's complicated and if you are a nerd like Eric and 185 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,700 myself we have them we have posted it on GFI, Hive the case 186 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:35,500 study, we can go into a bit more detail and I'm just interested, 187 00:11:35,500 --> 00:11:38,000 you know what came out of that? Do you feel like it was a 188 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,000 watershed, all watershed moment look at that. 189 00:11:43,900 --> 00:11:48,200 Was it a watershed moment for choosing green infrastructure? 190 00:11:48,300 --> 00:11:51,600 Her or encouraging municipalities to, to look at 191 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,400 green infrastructure and this type of model. 192 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,000 Yes, and it again, if you put it in the framing of innovation 193 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:01,200 versus business, as usual governments are looking at Green 194 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,900 infrastructure, all over the place and nobody wants to be 195 00:12:04,900 --> 00:12:06,600 first. Nobody wants to be second. 196 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,300 Everybody wants to be 25th, right? 197 00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:13,800 And so, by putting a financial model out there that made it a 198 00:12:14,100 --> 00:12:17,700 again, a rational choice for the second, third, fourth, fifth, 199 00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:20,200 and sixth. What's happening is as a 200 00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:24,000 solution to solve stormwater. Challenges in urban 201 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,800 environments, it's starting to become normal, which is 202 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:32,900 fantastic. And so what we see is the 203 00:12:32,900 --> 00:12:38,500 environmental impact, Bond model is essentially moving on to 204 00:12:38,500 --> 00:12:44,800 other more innovative solutions that are all in the nature-based 205 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,200 bucket, right? And so our whole job here at 206 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,400 Quantified Ventures is To make things normal and boring, the 207 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,100 financial markets, love boring, and they like transactions. 208 00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:58,100 They can turn a crank and do a thousand of them every day. 209 00:12:58,500 --> 00:13:03,100 That's our job to create simple, non bespoke transactions that 210 00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:07,200 are consumable by the capital markets without having to have 211 00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:10,700 long conversations in the conference room over bed 212 00:13:10,700 --> 00:13:18,100 sandwiches. You mentioned there that it's 213 00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:21,100 sort of expanded into all other different types of models and 214 00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:23,800 situations. So I wonder if you can talk 215 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,900 through a couple of those with this is obviously the Iowa soil 216 00:13:26,900 --> 00:13:32,000 fund and also, I'm really excited to sort of see used in 217 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,900 Mortal, Peter Tarik areas. I suppose like the one you're 218 00:13:33,900 --> 00:13:37,300 doing in Southern Ohio. So, can you talk? 219 00:13:37,300 --> 00:13:39,600 Tell us a bit about those. Sure. 220 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,100 And just a backup or. So, we are an outcomes-based 221 00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:45,400 Capital firm. And so, what, again, back to the 222 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:50,200 Genesis of the company, We're just trying to move Capital to 223 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,400 the things that are stuck. What was great about that? 224 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,800 DC water transaction is it started a lot of conversations 225 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,200 in the country about essentially, where else could we 226 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:04,000 use that weird model to unstuck some capital and get some 227 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,700 projects, moving to solve some environmental challenges. 228 00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:10,400 One of the things that came out of that particular transaction 229 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:16,600 was, can we use this model to reduce? 230 00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:19,700 Do some of the phosphorus and nitrates that are getting off of 231 00:14:19,700 --> 00:14:23,500 farms, and into the waterways and going Downstream and doing 232 00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:28,700 terrible things. And so, out of that work to try 233 00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:31,700 to figure out if we could lift that environmental impact Bond 234 00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:37,000 model to this field, the answer was no and that was a bad day 235 00:14:37,700 --> 00:14:40,600 because we thought the answer was at least maybe. 236 00:14:41,700 --> 00:14:45,300 But what, you know, we're pretty stubborn here at Quantified 237 00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:47,700 Ventures and once we That wasn't going to work. 238 00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:51,600 We kept going and what we ended up with is a very highly 239 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:58,300 scalable outcomes-based fund model where we in plain English. 240 00:14:58,300 --> 00:15:03,100 Here's what we do. We borrow a ton of money I'll 241 00:15:03,100 --> 00:15:06,000 just use a weight measurement a ton of money at the beginning of 242 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:11,800 the growing season and we pay Farmers across Iowa and seven. 243 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:17,000 Other states through our Soil and Water outcomes fund weep Pay 244 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:22,200 Farmers to profitably and that's the key word profitably, build 245 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,500 conservation practices on their farms and and then the farmers 246 00:15:26,500 --> 00:15:29,100 done because every farmer is looking for new revenue streams. 247 00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:32,100 So we're not having long conversations about saving the 248 00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:33,600 planet. We're not having long 249 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,400 conversations about the impact on water quality, we're just 250 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:43,700 saying hey farmer will pay you to do one of these five things 251 00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:45,700 and and Farmers. Love that. 252 00:15:45,700 --> 00:15:52,000 So big up to And then 10 months later, we measure two outcomes 253 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,800 that come out of those practices that the farmers built on their 254 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,400 private land. And one of those outcomes is the 255 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,300 carbon sequestered. And the other outcome is the 256 00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:06,500 water quality outcome, which is the reduction in the phosphorus 257 00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:09,600 and nitrates. And then we have multiple year 258 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:11,800 off. Take agreements for to what we 259 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,300 call outcome buyers. So we sell the sequestered 260 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:21,200 carbon To corporations who have made large, stakeholder 261 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,700 promises, shareholder promises to reduce their carbon 262 00:16:24,700 --> 00:16:29,000 Footprints and then the other benefit, the other outcome is 263 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:34,400 the water quality outcome and we measure that reduction and then 264 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,300 sell those outcomes to three levels of government. 265 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,400 The federal government through the US Department of 266 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:46,200 Agriculture, purchases those outcomes, the state Department's 267 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,000 of Culture in the states where we operate, they purchase those 268 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:56,400 outcomes and then municipalities also purchase those outcomes on 269 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,100 the government's that it's interesting. 270 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,300 That took a, while to kind of get those multiple year off, 271 00:17:02,300 --> 00:17:05,200 take agreements. Why? 272 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,500 Because the government here, at least on this side of the pond 273 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,500 are very used to paying for practices. 274 00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:13,200 All right, we got some tax money. 275 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,400 Great. Let's do, let's fund some 276 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,099 programs. That are going to reduce 277 00:17:18,099 --> 00:17:22,200 phosphorus and nitrate what we are saying to them is, don't do 278 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,200 that. Matter of fact, do nothing you 279 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:25,900 sit. There we will. 280 00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:30,000 We've got a model that scales and we and just by the outcome 281 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,400 from us because by the way, we did the math and here's our 282 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,300 math, we think you could just buy the outcome from us and it 283 00:17:37,308 --> 00:17:41,600 would be 45 percent cheaper than you continuing to fund programs 284 00:17:41,700 --> 00:17:46,100 with dubious outcomes. So that those were obviously 285 00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:49,200 longer Term conversations that took a while. 286 00:17:50,500 --> 00:17:54,400 And, you know, at the end of the day, this work is not for the 287 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,500 faint of heart. But now what we ended up with is 288 00:17:56,500 --> 00:18:01,900 a highly scalable model that transfers state-by-state across 289 00:18:02,100 --> 00:18:05,100 various crops and and that's a couple of things in there. 290 00:18:05,100 --> 00:18:07,900 I think are really interesting in that is you're selling the 291 00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:11,900 carbon sequestered in the soil. That's not something that we 292 00:18:11,900 --> 00:18:13,900 really have in the UK at the moment. 293 00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:17,900 So carbon code is in the works. So, you know, that's a big 294 00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:23,100 Market isn't in the US has that sort of really enabled payments 295 00:18:23,100 --> 00:18:26,900 because there's some services to take off for Farmers. 296 00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:30,300 Good question, take off might be a little aggressive. 297 00:18:31,100 --> 00:18:37,000 The, the world of soil carbon is an emerging field. 298 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,200 The the what we've tapped into is Corporate are large number of 299 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,600 Corporations, especially in the food nag business who Have made 300 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,700 very public shareholder commitments, to reduce their 301 00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:55,600 carbon footprint. And the reason they like our 302 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:00,700 program is, they're able to buy sequestered carbon directly from 303 00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:05,300 their supply chain. They believe like we believe and 304 00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:11,400 the science shows that if you sequester carbon from the soil, 305 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,800 you'll improve soil health over time. 306 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:19,100 It's a twofer for them for so number one, they're satisfying, 307 00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:21,800 their shareholder commitments through those the sequester 308 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,300 carbon. But number two, they're 309 00:19:24,300 --> 00:19:27,600 contributing to soil Health in their supply chain. 310 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,900 Got it. And I can't remember the name of 311 00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:33,800 the company you work with, who does the measurements on the 312 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:35,500 soil carbon. Yeah. 313 00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:39,100 And that's a, we would be here for 472 days. 314 00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:43,000 If we went down the whole Rabbit Hole of the of the measurement 315 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,500 on the on the carbon side and the water quality side, Water 316 00:19:47,500 --> 00:19:51,500 quality is a lot more mature on the measurement side. 317 00:19:52,100 --> 00:19:55,800 What we have found works is to work backwards from the 318 00:19:55,800 --> 00:20:00,200 corporations who want to buy this carbon by using the 319 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:05,200 methodologies that they have deemed or the right ones for 320 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:06,900 them. So we have a lot of flexibility 321 00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:09,700 in our model. So as opposed to picking winners 322 00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:13,700 and losers right now on the measurement side, we have 323 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,200 flexibility in our model to use various As measurement schemes. 324 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,200 It makes no sense. It's great to know and then just 325 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,600 briefly they Southern Ohio deal because that's really kind of 326 00:20:25,608 --> 00:20:29,200 off-the-wall I think yeah yeah it's a crazy one. 327 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,600 So rural economic development is something that we're not so 328 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,000 great at here in the United States and we're paying the 329 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,900 price for it every day. So the u.s. forest service, we 330 00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:45,400 kind of stumbled upon this one. The u.s. forest service which is 331 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:50,400 actually our largest Client. They picked a handful of us 332 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:56,700 forests national forests, that fit a certain profile where they 333 00:20:56,700 --> 00:21:01,000 were spending more putting out wildfires than they, their 334 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,300 operating budget would permit. And as a result, they're not 335 00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:07,400 doing the preventative maintenance within the forest, 336 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,500 to attract the visitorship and they these forests ends up with 337 00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:14,100 a little bit of a death spiral. And then you've got the 338 00:21:14,100 --> 00:21:17,200 surrounding communities in this particular Forest the way 339 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,000 National Forest in Southeastern Ohio was in Appalachian. 340 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,300 Ohio, this is coal mining abandonment. 341 00:21:24,300 --> 00:21:28,100 And so a lot of poverty, you've got communities around the 342 00:21:28,100 --> 00:21:30,700 perimeter of this, they're really suffering. 343 00:21:31,300 --> 00:21:34,800 From a the abandonment of that industry, the coal industry. 344 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,800 And number two, the fact that nobody's visiting that Forest. 345 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:44,100 So what we did is we said we worked with the five surrounding 346 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:50,300 towns that are On the perimeter of the way National Forest 347 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:56,100 created a council of government to unify all of them and then 348 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:03,100 built an 88 mile best-in-class. Mountain biking trail system and 349 00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:09,700 brought in investment dollars to pay for that and made part of 350 00:22:09,708 --> 00:22:12,700 the payback mechanism to these investors. 351 00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:16,800 The motel tax in the towns around the Eater. 352 00:22:17,100 --> 00:22:19,000 And so, we just went to all the mayor's is a listen. 353 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,300 We notice nobody's in your Diner, eating pie. 354 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:26,700 If we built this thing and people came, would you share 355 00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:31,400 some of your Motel tax revenue back as a return on investment 356 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,600 to the investors who paid for the mountain biking trail 357 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,900 system? So what was fascinating about? 358 00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:42,800 That was we launched a big chunk of the trail system, right 359 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,500 before, covid it and we were like, oh gosh, that's not going. 360 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,200 Work, that's bad timing. Who knew who could have see, we 361 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,700 didn't have that on the risk list and and we thought that was 362 00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:57,300 sort of game over and turned out to be quite the opposite. 363 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,900 Everybody flocked to What's called the Bailey's trail system 364 00:23:01,900 --> 00:23:05,200 during the pandemic, and it's been a wild success story, for 365 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,800 those communities who were had some forethought and some 366 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,800 willingness, to try something different to attract humans. 367 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,500 So as a result, those diners are full. 368 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:19,700 The pie is being served and those motels are full and 369 00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:22,800 everybody's happy. So we are now in the process of 370 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,500 replicating that around the country and from Vermont 371 00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:30,000 California. So exciting stuff in that second 372 00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:34,500 cut, that really is and there's enough return for Motel tax to 373 00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:36,600 pay for that investment. Or is there some sort of 374 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,600 concessionary capital going in as well for for those projects 375 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,800 know, there's enough unit economics to make these things 376 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,500 work where everybody wins and we're all about Trying to create 377 00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:50,000 these structures. So the revenue stream stays in 378 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:55,900 the local economy as opposed to yet another extractive industry 379 00:23:55,900 --> 00:23:57,800 that comes in and makes all the money. 380 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,300 The thing that actually takes some time and as part of our 381 00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:07,200 Playbook is actually creating that those government and NGO 382 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,200 structures to make sure that the revenue stays local. 383 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,100 Right? Wow, and I'm sure there's a lot 384 00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:16,400 of Secret Sauce that you copied. I want to show this it 385 00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:18,900 throughout your IP and but we haven't sake. 386 00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:21,200 We have got a couple of these up on the, on the hive and we 387 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,300 should put the Southern Ohio one up there, for sure, going as 388 00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:27,000 really interesting thinking about rural economies, and 389 00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:30,100 what's the biggest challenge when you're putting these deals 390 00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:32,100 together? The humans? 391 00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:37,300 Yeah, we would like to think the Brilliance is like, you know, in 392 00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:42,600 cell G 97 of the financial spreadsheet. 393 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,400 Not like I said it is nerd Heaven. 394 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,600 These are fun to put together. The realities are, these are 395 00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:53,000 transactions that go across political boundaries government, 396 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,900 boundaries, 80% of what we do touches water. 397 00:24:56,900 --> 00:25:02,200 In some way, we're wildfires water and wildfires do not obey 398 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,700 political boundaries. And so, as a result, you got to 399 00:25:05,708 --> 00:25:09,800 get humans to work together which takes time and takes 400 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,900 tenacity, and it takes a willingness to listen. 401 00:25:14,300 --> 00:25:16,400 Listen, hard and find those synergies. 402 00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:19,700 Geez, and find those opportunities to get good 403 00:25:19,700 --> 00:25:23,800 people, working towards bold Solutions, you make it sound 404 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,500 easy when you say it like that, but I bet that stuff monster 405 00:25:27,500 --> 00:25:31,700 getting multiple humans to try and will come to the same point. 406 00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:35,700 What has been helpful? I must say we've now had enough 407 00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:40,100 successes on the board where by being able to point to those 408 00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:45,900 successes were able to convene folks a lot faster because we're 409 00:25:45,900 --> 00:25:47,900 not. Thing, about some things that 410 00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:51,900 are in the abstract anymore by being able to point to some of 411 00:25:51,900 --> 00:25:55,400 our successes we're finding that that really speeds up the time 412 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,500 from idea to the time, the capital moves. 413 00:25:58,900 --> 00:25:59,700 Yeah. Yeah. 414 00:25:59,700 --> 00:26:02,900 I mean that whole first mover advantage that you had being the 415 00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:06,700 pioneers and now you've got to say several deals under your 416 00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:10,300 belt. What I'm not seeing is this 417 00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:15,000 moving across out of North America into other parts of the 418 00:26:15,008 --> 00:26:16,300 world? Or am I mistaken? 419 00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:18,100 Have you seen it? Work in other countries. 420 00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:20,600 If not. Do you think they could wait, 421 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:26,300 it's a good question. And we are very eager to play in 422 00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:28,800 other markets and other countries. 423 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,000 We would love to be partnering with entities, on your side of 424 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,800 the pond to Leverage, The the hard-earned lessons learned that 425 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:44,800 we've muscled through to see what what is leverageable again? 426 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,800 We have enough humility to I know that these are not cut and 427 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,800 paste transactions. We're not there yet as a 428 00:26:51,808 --> 00:26:57,300 species, then again, we've made every single possible mistake on 429 00:26:57,300 --> 00:27:01,000 the planet. And we would love to be sharing 430 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:06,200 those Lessons Learned with those in other countries who are 431 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,900 toiling with similar hopes and dreams for this outcomes. 432 00:27:09,900 --> 00:27:12,300 Based financing stuff all to say. 433 00:27:12,300 --> 00:27:16,000 If somebody can benefit from what it is that we've screwed up 434 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,600 or got. In right, we're happy to share. 435 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,300 So I'm not going to ask you for your cell phone number right 436 00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:23,000 now, to share with everyone listening. 437 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,100 But that's really great to know. And I know you have been 438 00:27:26,100 --> 00:27:30,100 supportive in talking to some folks, in the UK, about setting 439 00:27:30,100 --> 00:27:33,700 up an environmental impact Bond. There's a couple in their 440 00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:35,900 natural environment investment Readiness fund actually going 441 00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:39,300 through at the moment. One, I know you're familiar with 442 00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:42,000 was the, is the one up her up in the Hadrian's Wall. 443 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,800 We love the Hadrian's Wall project. 444 00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:49,400 We've been talking to Those folks for a long time and we're 445 00:27:49,900 --> 00:27:53,700 we're rooting for him. So just sort of wrapping up now. 446 00:27:53,700 --> 00:27:57,200 And you know, well say that I'm about to ask you really question 447 00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:01,700 it would you think holding back nature markets and later 448 00:28:01,700 --> 00:28:07,900 Investments more generally right now, I'll tell you one thing 449 00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:13,100 that we try to keep in mind every day is keep it simple. 450 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,600 And by the way, simple as really hard It turns out? 451 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,500 Yeah, the Rolling Stones. They, I mean, they're right in 452 00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:24,500 three chords songs. I mean, that's that's simple as 453 00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:27,300 hard. Keeping it simple as really hard 454 00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:32,400 and by the way it works. So as for those who are out 455 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,000 there structuring these kind of financial transactions and 456 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,100 funds, you've got to work backwards from the capital 457 00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:42,600 markets, otherwise you end up with a bespoke one-of-a-kind 458 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,900 transaction that nobody wants to do again. 459 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,100 You got to pay attention The transaction costs and you've got 460 00:28:49,100 --> 00:28:52,700 to have replication in mind every single day during the 461 00:28:52,700 --> 00:28:57,600 structuring component. So if the goal is to engage 462 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,100 Capital markets into the types of projects that we're talking 463 00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:04,000 about here, then you got to keep it simple. 464 00:29:04,300 --> 00:29:07,300 You're aiming for a person who just wants to turn a crank, 465 00:29:07,700 --> 00:29:10,300 right? And thousand of a kind of a 466 00:29:10,300 --> 00:29:12,200 transaction. So that's what you're trying to 467 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,300 satisfy. I love that image because that's 468 00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:17,200 who we're trying to get to. To it and you got to work 469 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,900 backwards from from that crank turning Financial person or 470 00:29:21,900 --> 00:29:23,700 amazing tips. And the someone I can only play 471 00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:27,500 three chords on a guitar. I appreciate the another chair. 472 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:33,200 Yeah keep it, keep it there. And just wrapping up then what 473 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,300 can we expect from quantify Adventures this year? 474 00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:38,400 What are you looking forward to? What are you working on? 475 00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:42,600 We have spun out a series of companies, we're really excited 476 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,300 about through the process of doing these. 477 00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:49,900 Since we get pretty low to the ground and we see opportunities 478 00:29:49,900 --> 00:29:55,400 for scalable businesses. And we are launching our first 479 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,800 technology company on March 1st, which is really exciting. 480 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:04,500 It's in the health field and we are finding sort of an endless 481 00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:10,100 array of environmentally sound financial structures that are 482 00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:12,500 sort of company based less fund base. 483 00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:16,000 I think there's a tendency to Lunge for the fund but if you 484 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,900 back A cup and sort of really go deeper to see if there's enough 485 00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:21,300 unit economically. You can start bringing in 486 00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:27,900 capital to capitalize a company once you're in that world, if 487 00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:33,600 possible try to avoid the a um, model 2%, you know, now you're 488 00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:35,200 okay. Now you've worked really hard 489 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,500 for two years to raise your two hundred million dollars. 490 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,200 Now, you're a hammer looking for a nail looking for, how to 491 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,000 deploy this Capital, the corporate model we have found 492 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,000 just has A lot more flexibility to actually pivot all to say, 493 00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:55,300 our model emerged into, we created Quantified Ventures 494 00:30:55,300 --> 00:30:58,000 Holdings. So, we have a holding company 495 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,800 now, for our multiple companies that are underneath it. 496 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,800 We still go to market is Quantified Ventures, which is 497 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,700 primarily our advisory work. We find that that's the best way 498 00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:11,300 to get stay low as to the ground because you're able to see the 499 00:31:11,300 --> 00:31:12,800 fish in the pond a little bit better. 500 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,100 Well, that's amazing. Any example, you can just 501 00:31:17,100 --> 00:31:19,200 quickly give us up one of those companies. 502 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,300 Well, let's see here. So one that will be launching in 503 00:31:22,300 --> 00:31:25,600 the second quarter is, we are launching a climate Merchant 504 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,400 Bank. There are a lot of climate 505 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,400 oriented companies. Little companies who are not 506 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,500 Venture Capital ready. Meaning, they're not going to 507 00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:36,800 there's those massive hockey stick but they're doing 508 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,400 something that has a climate impact whether they're doing 509 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,900 that on purpose or not. And so by building a merchant 510 00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:47,700 bank that leverages the advisory arm that we And plus the capital 511 00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:52,000 N plus just a willingness to be patient and not be greedy and 512 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,200 stay away from models that are go big or go home. 513 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,800 I think we're really excited about the Merchants Bank model 514 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,900 because I think that's sort of consistent with the DNA at 515 00:32:03,900 --> 00:32:06,500 Quantified Ventures. Yeah, that's really amazing. 516 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,400 Well when that starts out we'll have to get you back on if 517 00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:12,800 that's that's that's really really interesting model. 518 00:32:13,700 --> 00:32:16,200 Eric this was so much to talk to you about and I feel like the 519 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,500 It's just never enough time, but thank you so much for coming on 520 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,700 today and just giving us a run-through and thank you for 521 00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:29,300 the enormous enthusiasm and energy that you always bring to 522 00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:32,400 these conversations. It's wonderful as always, to 523 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,300 speak to you. Well, how, and it's so great to 524 00:32:35,300 --> 00:32:37,300 talk to you? Listen, we're on the same team. 525 00:32:37,300 --> 00:32:40,800 We're working on the same stuff, and I always love our 526 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,700 conversations with you. Looking forward to the great 527 00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:46,900 work that you and your team are doing and, you know, To find us 528 00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:54,800 if we can be helpful. Really enjoyed the thing to Eric 529 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,500 there, and super excited for what's next from Quantified. 530 00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:01,900 Ventures to, if you do want, more information on Quantified, 531 00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:04,600 Ventures deals, don't forget, you can check out those case 532 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:10,100 studies on the GFI Hive website. Their website, links are also in 533 00:33:10,100 --> 00:33:13,100 those case studies, and Eric said you could contact them so 534 00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:15,800 he may he may regret that. But it all that information is 535 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,600 in there that you could reach out will also be uploading the 536 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,500 Southern Ohio example in the coming weeks also going up this 537 00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:24,400 month on. If I hide in the case studies 538 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,300 and worth checking out is one on Bank of islands Woodland, nature 539 00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:33,400 credits and armed peers. Retail bonds for the Dutch Farm 540 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,800 transition. And in addition to the bleeds 541 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,700 deal we covered in last week's podcast. 542 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,700 So lots going on, if the stars. Align, I'll be back next week. 543 00:33:42,700 --> 00:33:45,000 We've got some really great guests lined up in the coming 544 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,400 weeks. We'll be talking Wildfire, 545 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,200 resilience bonds, we're talking biodiversity, net gain the role 546 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,600 of crowdfunding, and how How the finance sector can better 547 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,500 support cop15 Ambitions, but that is all from me today. 548 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,700 It just leaves me to say, thank you for listening and supporting 549 00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:05,700 the podcast and thank you to financing nature, funder. 550 00:34:05,700 --> 00:34:09,000 The Esme, Fair been foundation and to our editor extraordinaire 551 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,699 Robin Lee burn, a fairly media to a next time.