Hey everyone, welcome to Stepmom side Chats.
We are your hosts, Alyssa and Rebecca. 2 stepmoms.
Who are done pretending everything's perfect.
This is where we talk boundaries, PO parenting, hard
truths, healing, and the stuff nobody says out loud.
If you're ready for real talk, real growth, and a little bit of
spice, let's get into it. Hi everyone, welcome back to
another episode of Stepmom Side Chat.
Alyssa and I are so excited today because we have a special
guest and why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself for those
of who don't know you a little bit about who you are and what
you do. Absolutely.
So I'm Gabriella Pomari. You can tell by the accent
straight away. I'm from Australia but I do a
lot of work obviously overseas and internationally.
I'm a Co parent myself and a mom and I'm a family lawyer by way
of background. So I'm dealing with all of this
all day, every day. I wrote a book, the
collaborative Co parent. And if you don't already have
it, it's a really good road map. And from that moment you
separate through to re partnering step families,
blended families, it sort of walks you all the way through
that journey. So this is a topic.
It's it's something I'm really passionate about, I'm interested
in about. And for me, it's not so much
about the parents and the adults themselves, but it's how can we
make this transition and this life journey easier for the
children involved. Absolutely.
This is huge. And I think Becca, if you
probably agree with me, if we want to share a link to her book
and put it in our in our membership for our community
members, then they can have direct.
Access to it of. Course in this podcast note too,
I have to say your accent is like you should be like a phone
recorder or something. Your voice is so calming and
it's going to be refreshing for our listeners because they're
used to Becca and I yak in all day.
A little different today. Yeah, very nice.
OK, so we have, you know a whole slew of listeners with ranges of
stepmom, live stepmom priorities, different kinds of
stepmom agendas and calendars with their step kids.
And so the whole gamut is completely wide open.
What we decided though for today was kind of to figure out how
you got into work with families and Co parent.
This is something that you planned professionally.
Is this like life just LED you here and kind of dig into your
beginnings for us and how this became what it is for you?
Yeah. Well, look, realistically, my
dad is a family lawyer, so I grew up from a very young age, I
guess, exposed to and learning about the concepts of
separation, divorce, blended families.
And that's a lot, I think, for a young child.
And then as I grew up and decided to go into family law, I
think I really opened my eyes up to, wow, there's a whole nother
world out there now. I grew up in a very nuclear
family. My parents stayed together.
So it wasn't something I was necessarily exposed to.
You know, there were kids at school you sort of heard about
all their parents are divorced. But you don't really understand
it, I don't think, unless you work in the area or you've
experienced it. But having said that, even
working in the area, I still don't think people truly get it
unless you've been through it. Because as a family lawyer, I
work with people. I give them advice about, you
know, what judges would do, what courts would do.
And that's all well and good, but I think you and I would know
in practical reality, half the time what the courts might do or
what might they suggest isn't something that's really workable
or what is truly in a child's best interests because courts
don't know about schedules going back and forth.
They don't care about, you know, soccer training, basketball
training, bags that need to go between homes, those arguments
that are largely had because of communication issues.
And then when you start bringing step parents realistically into
the mix, things change again. There's another blurring of
dynamics and we're trying to work out how do we keep everyone
happy? What roles do we have within a
home? So yeah, I think once I went
through it myself, as I said, I'm a Co parent.
I separated when my son was like 1.
He's 5 now. I'd be 6.
Soon things started to change and then I re partnered.
I've got now a 15 month old. So all those different
boundaries start playing out in real life.
And I think that really shifts your perspective.
Is this real life? How do I actually do it?
And when all that started happening for me, I think that's
when I said I've got to do more in this work.
You know, it's not simply about being a lawyer because that's
not reality. I want to help people.
I want to write a book. I want to talk about these
things and I really want to guide people to do it better
where they can. And I know it's not easy.
I know it's a journey. And I'm not going to lie and say
Co parenting is the easiest thing on earth.
We should all be best friends. We should hang out on weekends,
you know, go on coffee dates. It really happens.
But there's got to be a way to make it easier for a child and
for their experience, you know, to be better so that their
adulthood isn't impacted. So we talked to so many stepmoms
and they feel like they're trying their best, but they just
still feel like outsiders. So we're really excited just to
hear from you today specifically though, about how that Co
parenting relationship evolves over time.
Sometimes it gets better, we've heard, and sometimes it gets
worse. So from your experience and
research you know thus far how does a Co parenting relationship
usually change over time and do you find it tends to get easier
or more complicated? I think there's a bit of both,
right? That's the reality of it.
And I really believe it comes down to communication because
for me, communication is everything.
I wrote an e-book on it. I titled it Communication is
Everything because it is. And if we look at the Co
parenting relationship most of the time, I think it's rare that
as soon as you separate or divorce your best friends, it
doesn't happen. And that Co parenting journey
evolves. So realistically it's going to
come down to how we can better that relationship initially in
the early stages, learn to communicate better so there's
transparency and openness, but also boundaries.
I think boundaries are huge and when the right boundaries and
communication tools are in place, you've got a healthier Co
parenting dynamic and relationship.
Then obviously when someone re partners and generally one
person is going to re partner before the other, things start
to shift. And it's if you've got that
foundation of that good communication and that boundary
setting that I think it's easier to transition into that space.
Look, it will always be difficult.
There is likely always going to be one parent that's still
hurting. Perhaps they weren't ready for
the relationship breakdown or they were, but it still hurts.
I mean, you imagine this life with this family, holidays and
Christmases and your family being intact, you being the one
in the Christmas photos. And all of a sudden there's this
new person. And I guess the first thing you
start thinking about, and maybe you resonate with this or not,
but you start thinking about, well, hold on, who is this
person? They're now this new parent,
this new, they have this role, I suppose in my child's life.
Are they replacing me? And perhaps it is by having that
ongoing communication that those two Co parents need to reassure
one another. Yes, we've moved on because life
moves on and we're all entitled to re partner.
And so we should, we need to be happy.
It's a long life. But this person isn't going to
replace your role. They're going to take on a very
new special role. And I think it's how you
approach that. And I guess I also struggle with
that dynamic. I'm not a stepmom, but obviously
my partner is a stepdad to my son.
And then my son lives with his dad and his stepmom.
She's got a couple of kids. So it's all very mixed and
beautifully, I guess, blended, new, modern dynamic, right?
But yeah, I sit and wonder and I say, what goes on in that house?
What is she doing? How does she put him to bed?
You know, what sort of things does she feed him?
And there'll be warnings. I mean, there was a morning last
week I called him and he was teary in the car on the way to
school. I said, what's wrong?
And he said something like, I don't like her rules.
How do you juggle that? We've all got our own rules.
And again, I said, it's not for me to then dislike her or argue
with her. She's entitled to have her rules
in her house. Everyone runs their own house.
But it's nice to have a little bit of communication and find
out, perhaps from his dad, Hey, what went on this morning?
Is it as big as he's saying or realistically, he's a kid,
right? We're adults.
We can talk about what's really going on and how I can probably
reframe that home, right? It's very scary that we like,
it's just not very normal. Like you're putting it where by
a mom hears something come from dad's house and she asked dad
like an adult saying happened here, you know, the kid, I have
concerns about the kiddo or something.
And instead she'll maybe overreact or we hear that she'll
call CPS instead of investigating with dad 1st.
And so that's like such a big breakdown and communication and
like you talked about that, that shift of trying to have
communication first, but so that then when all these changes
come, you have that groundwork. But when that's not there, it's
just like that's so hard for I know a lot of our listeners that
don't get that kind of bio mom. Yeah.
I don't think it's the typical approach.
I think I approach it like that simply because, you know, I have
that experience, that background, and I know the way
it's going to impact the child, right?
But I think realistically, and I see it, I was in court the other
day. I have a client who has a new
partner and the first thing mom did when she found out was go to
the daycare, collect the children, bring them home so
that dad couldn't spend time with his kids.
And that's not the right approach either, right?
Because this new stepmom didn't deserve that.
But when I look back and I can only give my experience and I
don't want to sound like I know everything because I don't.
Maybe communication could have resolved that, a chat could have
resolved that. But that takes 2 willing people
right? And two mature adults to say we
need to do this better for our kids.
So I guess my advice would be to all the moms out there, by our
moms in particular, don't react immediately.
There's no need to go out there to cause conflict, to ring CPS,
you know, to bring this child into the debate and into the
conflict. Step back.
Let's look at things realistically.
This is a very special person in your child's life.
They are taking care of your child.
They didn't necessarily want to do this.
It's a choice they made, right? They could have picked any other
person in the world to go out there and be in a relationship
with, but they chose, you know, your child's other, your father,
whoever it might be. And they've done that because
obviously they believe there's something special in your child
too. They want to be a part of that
family. And I think we need to sit back
and say, as hard as it might be, you don't need to like each
other. You don't even necessarily need
to agree with each others values and how you bring a child out
perhaps and you know, you might be very different, but step back
and say thanks. Thanks for caring for my child.
Thanks for making them feel safe and whole and happy.
They're cooking for them, making their bed, helping them get
dressed in the morning. They're really big things.
And if we step back and actually show a bit of gratitude and be
thankful for the role they've taken on, maybe then we can try
to have a better relationship or at least for our child's sake,
show that we have a better relationship.
I guess that's so important for a little kids mind you know them
at least seeing hey, all these parents of mine can actually get
on. If you feel comfortable sharing,
do you have a relationship with stepmom and what does that look
like? Stepmoms, how are you coping
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Same chaos, just calmer vibes and way better energy.
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life comes with big ass feelings.
Look, no, we don't have any real relationship.
That's the truth of it. We don't hang out.
The first time we probably spent proper time together was about
two weeks ago. My son started kindergarten, and
so he's at a new school. It's all very exciting.
And there was a sort of a parent night and we made the decision.
Normally it would just be us as parents who go.
So his dad and I, we would still go to school events and things
like that, but we made the decision that all four of us
should go because that would be very important to my son.
We did that. We all sat together around a
little kindergarten table and sat through the presentation and
we spoke. But look, and I know it might be
controversial. I personally, for my reasons,
don't want to have a close relationship with her.
But I'm very much respect the fact that it can't be easy in
that house. I mean, I know what my son's
like. I'm sure there are challenging
days. And I respect the fact that
she's taken that on. You know, she does everything
for him. He feels really safe with her
because he speaks openly and happily about her.
And even in, you know, there have been personal circumstances
why maybe I don't want a relationship necessarily.
I will always speak positively about her at home.
And So what my partner will say, you know, what did you guys talk
about at dinner last night? How lucky are you when he says
something happy about her or her kids?
And I think if you do that, you're at least promoting a
healthy relationship between child and stepparent.
I think that's more important to me.
And as much as I'd love to have a nice relationship and look,
maybe one day, we're just not there yet.
For me, it's more important for my child to have that special
relate and for him at least not to think, hey, there's something
wrong where these parents don't, you know, they dislike each
other. So I can't go between homes
freely and chat and talk about my time in the other home and
what we're doing. Yeah.
OK. I just love that you said that
because that's very real and that's very true and that's very
natural. Of course, I don't think I, you
might not know this, but we have a very high conflict situation.
Becca's situation, though, is not the same.
And she has one bio mom that she's like fairly close with and
one bio mom that is. That's just not the case.
So it's not always the evil stepmom.
But yeah, I think that that's so true.
See how, you know, if I ever separate from my husband, I
don't see wanting to be friends with my kids new stepmom.
That would just not be a thing. But I also would want to have
respect and, you know, understanding like you that I
think that that's very healthy and normal.
So from your experience and research, how does a Co
parenting relationship change over time?
Does it tend to get easier? Is it more complicated over
time? I know it's probably depending
on the situation of course. Yeah.
Look, I think it ultimately depends on the dynamics and when
you separate, right. So when you've got very young
children, it's a much longer Co parenting journey, it's going to
take a lot more time. So you may have perfected that
from the early stages. You know, you've got that
communication to unpack. You may even be doing birthdays
and Christmases together. Who knows?
Something will change when you've got 10 or 15 years up
your sleeve. It might be the re partnering.
What I see mostly in my work and in my experiences, as soon as
someone re partners, the dynamic shifts.
There's a breakdown in that Co parenting relationship, but
that's the opportunity perhaps to be able to restart and then
create the new rules and say, OK, it's a different dynamic now
there's three of us or four of us, whatever it might be, what
are going to be our new, you know, communication protocols,
what boundaries? And I think the boundaries are
the big ones here. You don't need to know
everything that goes on in your child's other home.
And I see this in my work a lot. I got a long letter yesterday
from a lawyer about 6 pages and I thought, seriously, we did a
six page letter about this. Imagine what that cost to talk
about. I need to assess what the other
house is like. I want to know everything about
this step parent, their ex-husband, their children.
A long letter. And I said to myself, I
understand, right? As a mom, you want to know
what's going on when it's a safety issue 100%.
But I think we need to step back as humans and as adults and say
part of the anxiety is that need for control, that need to know
everything that's going on and that's natural.
And that will change over time. I mean, I experienced it
straight away. I used to think what's going on
over there? Is he OK?
But as you learn to perhaps step back a little bit, have a little
faith, a little trust that things are OK, I think the
dynamic of that relationship becomes easier and perhaps the
conflict soften. But that's certainly something I
see. The other things I see obviously
are as, you know, kids become teenagers.
The reality is sometimes a teenager isn't going to want to
see the other parent. It might be a weekend.
They're hanging out with their friends.
They've got an event on, you know, they want to go out to a
party. That doesn't necessarily mean
that other parent is encouraging that, you know, straightaway.
So you're alienating the kid or you're not bringing the kid
over. No, we've got to stop using that
terminology. And I think maybe the problem
with social media sometimes is there's this psychology we
learn, there are these phrases we learn and we start labeling
everything. And not everything's a label.
It could just be real life. It could just be a teenager
rebelling, saying I don't want to see dad.
And that might go on for a few weekends and it's tough and it
hurts. We, I don't want to see mom,
whatever it might be, but step back and say, all right, let's
figure out what's actually going on.
Let's talk to my kid. If they're a teenager, we should
be able to have a bit more of a real conversation, but give them
the space, let them breathe. Because as soon as you start
going on the attack and you start arguing with that other
parent, you're just creating such a bigger issue.
And then little issues become bigger ones that turn into
really high conflict dynamics. And that's when you start seeing
this real breakdown in relationships.
And then you start seeing children who become adults that
ultimately estranged from their families because they say, you
know, it was all too much. My parents divorced everything.
It just ruined me a bit. Like this whole Brooklyn Beckham
thing. His parents weren't divorced,
but it's the same thing. It's the toxicity within that
family home that as an adult, they say, I don't want to be
part of this anymore. You know, I'm an adult now.
I can make my own decisions. I'm going to take a bit of that
power back. So I think it's our job as
parents. They're a Co parent, a step
parent. Whatever you are, whatever role
you're playing in a child's life, you are designing their
adulthood. You have the power to really
shift and change how they experience family life and
parents, how they then, you know, go into adulthood.
When they get married, they parent that experience that, you
know, transcends. So yeah, I think it does change.
And most of the time I think Co parenting becomes easier.
But it's when those big ticket, you know, there's real moments
happen in life that we're challenged, that there will be a
breakdown and we've got to work through it.
Definitely. Do you have like an example that
might come to mind of a family that did have maybe really
difficult Co parenting dynamics? It started off really rough, but
maybe they eventually found rhythm.
Do you have an example or a family that comes to mind?
I see it all the time. Yeah.
And to be honest, I see it down the track.
So 3 and it sounds like a long time, but 3-4, five years later.
And the reality of that, though, is you've got to remember, I do
work with a lot of high conflict families at the beginning,
because if you're with a family lawyer or a divorce lawyer,
you'll probably high conflict. There's a reason you're in
court. And I, much as I love my work
and you know, I'm awful lawyers where people need them.
Lawyers ruin families. We do because I think we
encourage the conflict. You know, we we're the ones
they're saying send that nasty letter.
You know, let's fight in court. Let's get all the dirt on the
other person. And if you need to, sure, I
believe in it. I think they need off of it
sometimes it becomes like addictive.
It does. And you've got certain lawyers
with personalities that they take on that whole matter.
And you say, hang on, are we arguing with each other?
It doesn't need to be personal. This is someone's life and their
family. And so I often feel that if you
know, when people are out of that system and we're not going
through a fresh separation or divorce, we're away from lawyers
and courts and orders and plans and people actually experience
real life, that's when Co parenting gets easier.
And that's when, you know, you really go on that journey and
you start to understand what's involved.
You're, you know, going to school, you're sharing drop
offs, you're doing the lunch boxes and the uniforms.
And when you start allowing life to play out hopefully, and what
I see is it then becomes easier. I had a family I will never
forget, little boy, 2 parents and it was the worst Co
parenting relationship I've seen.
Dad had to be supervised for something like 3 years.
There were no risk issues, but mom was adamant.
It was just, it was terrible. I went through the court system.
We got some orders in place and I remember emailing him about 3
or 4 years later just, you know, had a special place because we
were together for so long in that, you know, lawyer client
relationship. Well, from him saying I'm
actually in Disneyland, I remember for us Disneyland's
like 15 hours away. So that's a big thing because
I'm in Disneyland with my son. I thought there's no way she
would have allowed that. And he said we actually have
this beautiful Co parenting relationship.
Now she's in America with her new husband.
I'm here with my kid at Disneyland.
We've made it all work with good friends.
Now, you know, we would get on very well.
We're doing a shared arrangement, which was the
opposite of what had happened in court, you know, a couple of
years prior. And that touched me.
And I really thought things can change.
And look, I'm not saying don't use lawyers and courts, but it
was so nice to hear that they were able to work through things
for the benefit of, you know, their little family as time went
on. That's great.
Those are such encouraging stories for I'm sure a lot of us
stepmoms and just Co parents in general.
So thank you for sharing that. I do want to get into, you know,
why we're here is the step parent aspect of it a little bit
more In your book you talk about the blurred line between step
parent and decision making or decision maker rather.
What does that actually look like in real life and in
everyday situations and can you share about that?
Yeah, that's, that's a good question.
And isn't it something that people are experiencing all day
every day? So we start looking at that, I
guess step parent relationship where that breakdown of the
relationship between maybe bio parent and step parent happens.
Is this blurring of the lines of are you 1 taking on my role?
Are you making the decisions? And I think it's that perhaps
that cross between decisions and discipline.
And like I see it within my own home.
It's really hard where you say, again, I don't know all the
answers, but you say how much discipline is too much
discipline? And as a, you know, as the bio
parent, I think you need to step into and, and have the respect
for this other person in your home and say, I'm going to, I
don't know if the right word is stick up or stand up, you know,
to them. But I've had a 5 year old and
he'll often say, you know, to my part, well, you're not the boss
of me. My mom's the boss.
She makes the decisions and I'm like, oh God.
And it creates conflict. And I often say, you know,
you're an older man, he's 5. But you know what we have to
teach our kids from a young age 1, I guess you don't speak to
adults like that, but to you have two adults in this house
now. We both make the rules and the
decisions to an extent, obviously.
And I will always be mum. And sure, I might make, I might
make particular rules, but this other adult is just as much a
parent in our home. And we're all home, like we're
all family together within this home.
And we need to have respect for everyone.
And so we listen to everyone. And that might mean that if he
says certain things like take your shoes off or put your plate
in the dishwasher, whatever it might be, you listen, you don't
say, well, my mom wouldn't make me do that, right?
So I guess it's having that discussion and it's hard.
But again, when you're entering into a relationship with someone
who has kids, I guess you need to be having those discussions
early on saying, well, what is my role going to be?
And I think you need to from the outset sort of say, let's have
some boundaries in place as to, you know, the types of things
that you know, we'll be doing together within the home.
We need to be on the same page with it when it comes to
different discipline and perhaps also if it's possible,
communication with the other side, the Co parent, the other
family as well. And I would imagine that in my
son's other home, they have their rules and both of them get
to discipline to an extent and make decisions and rules.
And that's OK too. But again, it's the
communication across homes where you're saying to your child,
when you're in that home, you listen to both of them and you
have respect for both of them. And that's really important.
But it is, it's that difficulty of how do you say to a child, I
now have to listen to this other adult who I haven't known as a
parent who have come in and who I guess I'm learning to love
because a child didn't choose for that person to come in.
A parent fell in love and that's beautiful and they're allowed to
do that. And I guess maybe that's why we
take it easy in the early stages.
I often get asked, but how quick is too quick?
And when you actually introduce this parent and when do you
bring them into the home? And there's no right answer.
For some people, it's three months.
For other people, it's three years, right?
It's going to come down to when is your child ready?
So small baby steps of introducing this person.
And I genuinely believe that if you do it that way and if you
did it differently, sorry, but I think if you did do it in a
slow, focused child, you know, friendly approach, the child
becomes more comfortable with that person too.
It starts off with, OK, here's this new person, mom or dad
friend. They then say, OK, mom or dad
love this person. We're spending a bit more time
together. And as they slowly get to know
you, perhaps that respect builds.
And I don't say respect in some controlling manner where, you
know, we live in this perfect society.
We don't. Kids and adults will always
argue and you'll always have misbehavior within the home.
And it's hard. Kids are cheeky.
But I guess with that slow built up approach, I find personally
that a kid will learn to, I don't want to use the word obey,
but obey or listen to or yeah, I guess be more open to, you know,
complying with the rules of this other person within the home, in
my experience. Yeah, that goes back to, we just
talked on this one actually last week too, about building trust
so that then they will, you know, feel like they can listen
to you and obey you and I quote UN quote obey.
So why do you feel this role is so confusing for so many
stepmoms? Obviously there's many
complexities, but what does it really come down to that becomes
so confusing and hard for us to. Yeah.
I guess first thing is what is my role within this house?
I mean, these aren't my children.
I mean, I've just come in perhaps to this family and it
will change obviously, as life evolves and time goes on.
But it's, you know, how much can I do?
I don't want to overstep either. And then I guess it's that,
isn't it that concern or that constant worry of I don't want
to ruin this relationship I now have with these kids.
And I think a lot of stepparents then become the fun parent
because they want to have that great relationship and they want
to build that and they want to keep that.
And as soon as you start becoming the street parent,
you're just like the other parent.
You got the fun one anymore and you risk, oh, do I ruin that
relationship? But then your relationship
really isn't built on the proper structure anyway.
And then I think as well, it's that constant concern of am I
going to get some, you know, series of abusive text messages
from the bio parent, you know, in the other home saying, what
are you doing? Don't speak to my child like
that. How dare you put in place these
rules. Why are you disciplining my
child? Who are you?
And my sister's a stepmom. She's got three-step kids.
She has had an incredibly challenging journey.
They're all very beautiful and happy now.
But this has taken time. And she experienced that from
early on. Like, don't you dare get
involved. Don't you dare make decisions.
You know, these are our kids. We'll sort out how to deal with
them. But that's hard too because she
said, well, I live in this house now.
You know, this is my house. I'm married.
I now have a baby too. So I'm going to sort of assert
myself and say in my house, this is the way things go.
And sometimes you do need to be tough with kids.
As hard as it is, if you want to be in this house, this is how we
do it. And kids have to start making
decisions when they're old enough to where, you know, going
between homes is hard, but you need to learn to be able to, I
guess, get on with both sets of parents.
And I guess to use that word, respect.
Again, when I'm in this house, this is how they do things.
And I don't get to get away with things and act up simply because
I have separated parents, right? I think there's a lot of that
victim mentality and kids of I'm going to play my parents off one
another or my step parents off one another because hey, I'm the
one who has this life and I didn't choose it.
You know kids need discipline too.
Becca and I are nodding our heads aggressively.
Like I get, I stay in my kid too, and you know, it's my job
to teach him. Yes, I like how you mentioned
that, you know, sometimes the stepchild will kind of maybe
subconsciously fall into that victim role because like you
said, they didn't choose this. However, there still needs to
be, you know, rules and consequences and respect for
authority. So I really like that you, you
know, touched on that. I think going back to your
sister, as much as you're willing to share what happened
in that relationship that made the situation be what it is
today because you said that it is a lot.
Better now number one and two, doing the hard work.
And I think that both the actual bio parents in that dynamic had
to do that hard work. A lot of therapy, a lot of
family therapy, a lot of working through background issues.
And I think it's once you do that and you actually start
acknowledging it's not so much about us, it's about our kids.
And I remember going to these kids, my step nephew and nieces,
I guess their soccer games, and you'd have parents on opposite
sides of the, you know, in large dispute, kids not knowing which
parent to run to because it was so high conflict.
And I'd sort of stand there with my sister being like, I don't
even want to be here. This is an awkward situation and
I feel sorry for these kids. But now, you know, they'll be
Facetiming each parent in front of each other.
I'll be there. We're all talking about both
parents. And in my head I'm thinking,
God, this is different like to a couple of years ago.
I'm so confused. Am I meant to like mom?
Do I not like mom? Which side of my own?
And it's it's all very odd. But I think it's nice that they
could work through it with therapy and with doing work and
with being child focused. And I know it sounds easy and,
you know, not everyone's open to it, but I'm a huge believer in
family therapy. I think if you can at least have
parents who are willing to do it and be open to it, and that
doesn't mean or going there, sitting down together, holding
hands most of the time it's going there individually, doing
that hard work and allowing that person to then, you know, share
the experiences with that other person to help you sort of
rebuild and reconnect. And that can be really important
and valuable. Tell me, like, why do you think
families fall into that pattern that we were talking about that
becomes kind of toxic? Is there something that you see
that's happening over and over again that we need to kind of
stop doing ourselves how we can help the situation?
I think it's just it's human behavior.
It's that grief, it's that, you know, it's that emotional roller
coaster of again, I've lost my family and this other person's
now entered my family and I didn't choose that.
And it's that loss of control. I have absolutely no control
over my ex anymore. I don't get to see or say or,
you know, have any role in what they're doing in their house.
And there's this new person and all of a sudden, isn't it?
Isn't it that I'm trying to think of the word?
It's, it's that it's that natural instinct where you say,
I'm not going to like this person.
I don't have to like this person.
They've come into my life. They're taking over my family.
And I get it. It's natural.
It's behavior and it's our emotions.
So it's when you do your own work and your own, I guess,
healing that it makes it easier. So perhaps it's as a stepparent
remembering or hang on, this person's probably grieving to an
entire life they thought they had.
We'll cut them a bit of slack. That's not to excuse toxic
behavior, challenging behavior, that's not on either.
But try from the out since I've got to put myself in their shoes
to probably be the jealousy too. And it's not direct jealousy and
that I'm jealous of you as a person, but I'm jealous of the
fact that I couldn't perhaps make it work.
And now you're making it work with this person, this person
who I thought was so terrible that I couldn't be with them
anymore. But hey, he couldn't be that bad
if you're happy and you're in love and you know, you're out
enjoying life. So it's that mix of emotions
you're going through. And then I guess as a step
parent too, you've got to say I've got to set my own
boundaries too because I can't imagine how incredibly
challenging it could be. And I often say to my partner, I
couldn't have done what you did. And that's true.
I don't think I have the personality or the strength to
take the responsibility for someone else's child because it
is that constant, that feeling in your tummy of, you know, are
you walking on egg shells around your own home?
That's not a way to live life either.
You don't want to, you know, be nervous in your own home.
So I think it's just understanding and trying to step
back and look at each other's perspectives, how each person
might be feeling and for help. Perhaps that helps fix that
problem in the conflict and that dynamic.
Thank you. I love how you talked about
stepmoms or step parents rather coming from a place with empathy
because I think empathy goes a long way.
And it's super difficult for us stepmoms sometimes to have
empathy because we're like, we're packing the lunches, we're
doing this, we're doing everything.
And our stepchild still at the end of the day says you're not
my mom. You can't tell me what to do.
So it's a really, really difficult position we're in.
However, I like that you, you know, are challenging us to
maybe reframe our thinking so that maybe we do have a little
bit more empathy fee for bio mom and hopefully that will make the
the relationship better. Our last question on this
subject is how do you think our partners can support their
spouse in the household when they feel like, you know what
I'm doing all of these things, these responsibilities, but you
know, I don't have authority. I'm more like an unpaid manager
of this household. How can partners best support
their spouse in this way? Yeah, you're entirely right
there. I think that's how relationships
fall, Part 2, because you almost become a sort of business
partners, you know what I mean? We're working together in this
household and we're doing all the jobs and the operational
things we need to do. But that connection goes because
you don't feel supported. And that's the number one thing
you can do. It's just the support.
So it's, I guess, framing to your child that we are both on
the same page here. It's not dad, you know, as being
my parent and this other person within the house who makes your
lunches, who takes you to school, who's there for you, but
doesn't have any authority within the home.
No. And I suppose when you're
sitting at the kitchen bench and you've got a kid who says, well,
you're not the boss of me or I'm not going to eat that sandwich
you just made because it's something that I don't like,
it's dad then stepping in saying no, no, no, no, no.
You treat, you know, however, whatever name they call you,
however it works with respect, you listen to them.
They have just as much authority in this house as I do.
And I think it's the role of that bio parent within the home
to, you know, create those rules and to really implement them and
to show the child that there's unity because it's a bio parent
isn't sticking out for you, particularly in front of your
child or the the other parent, the other home.
You're never going to adapt. You're never going to grow in
that, you know, that family and a child won't perhaps have that
respect because they're not being taught to.
They're not, you know, learning that these parents support one
another, they're on the same page.
So I really do think it comes down to the bio parent within
the home to step up to support, but not just support you behind
closed doors publicly and openly and in front of children.
I'm so glad you touched on that because I completely, I always
forget and we talked about this many times, but my husband and I
do that too and we totally believe in that.
But I forget to mention that to our step home listeners.
So let me get into a few of these questions because they
were so many when you kind of shot it out there that we were
going to be talking with you. So there's one that I think I
can touch on cuz I think we've already this one says bio mom
isn't high conflict, just low effort how to deal when
everything falls on US school appointments and extra stuff.
And I know you probably are going to just say like, take
advantage of that, take full advantage, right?
And like, you know, there's right, we don't want to go to
court to like say, hey, you need to take over half of the kids
life. And Becca is one that kind of
have had a similar issue where she's had a lot put on her
plate. And so do you think that that's
just something, you know, they need to just do for the kids
sake? It's a hard 1 and I guess no you
shouldn't. And I do hear about this a lot
from a kids perspective. I think you keep doing it
because you're making their life easier And look, you didn't go
into a family to make a child's life easier, but that probably
comes part and parcel with it. But at the same time, perhaps it
is that communication and you need to open up some sort of
communication channel where you can say I can't keep carrying
the full load. Can we work out a dynamic where
we share whatever it might be, the medical appointments or the
dropping off from activities and can we find a way to do it
better and more equally? And if you don't have that
relationship or it's not possible, perhaps that falls a
little bit then on the bio parent too, because it shouldn't
all fall to you. That will cause issues in your
own new family too, but again, it's going to come down to the
dynamic of your particular family.
I just wouldn't create huge conflict over it because it's
not going to benefit a child. Thank you.
OK, So this is more of like a situation based question.
One of our stepmoms wrote in and said they have a very high
conflict bio mom and they have a school event coming up.
So they just wanted advice or input on how to kind of navigate
that and I was kind of interested to see what you would
say as well. Quote UN quote.
My advice? Oh yeah.
She wrote SSI. Say these all the time and it's
a controversial one because child focused me says put the
kid 1st. And if it's going to create huge
conflict at a school event or any event, a birthday party, a
sporting match, not that you should feel like you can't go,
but if it is going to create that conflict, I often say is
the best thing to not go to that particular event.
So this kid can go to the event and feel comfortable.
Because the last thing you want from a kid to is to have that
constant anxiety within their tummy of saying, oh, I'm going
to have everyone there. It's going to be disaster.
I'm just not going to go or I'm going to retreat away, right?
It's not healthy and you shouldn't teach a kid that
that's how you get through your anxiety and your concern.
Or I guess the easier option is everyone man and become mature
and be adults and learn how to sit in the same room.
And again, you don't have to sit together.
Very few Co parents, step parents, splendid families end
up sitting together. It might be that some of you
choose to sit at the front, some of you choose to sit towards the
back and you have good boundaries and protocols in
place, which might be let's not approach our child altogether if
that's going to create conflict or it's going to cause him or
her to feel uncomfortable. Let's put in place a, you know,
a rule of after the school event, we already know who's
taking this kid home or to dinner or whatever it might be.
If you pre plan and you have those rule in place, it should
make it easier. But the biggest thing is if
you're going to go go, do not create conflict.
Shut your mouth. And if bio mom is going to
create that conflict, just walk away.
Don't engage, don't encourage it.
Don't create a scene. Do it at home behind closed
doors, all you like. Ring up a friend, ring your
sister, vent, but do not involve that child or let them see
what's going on. OK, so I have one last question
I think we have time for and then if you want to just kind of
answer that and then give us the one piece for stepmoms to take
away. If you have one like cherry on
top that they can just write down, you know, stick on the
windshield and go with for the week.
But this question, I do want to slide in some time for Becca.
I know short on time, she's like our clock woman.
OK, so this one says tips for resisting the urge to be pulled
back in when she seems to be playing nice.
Boundaries, right? I guess the reality is if you
know that they're playing nice is for a reason, it might be,
you know, she's going on a holiday and you know that she
needs the extra help while she's away.
These dynamics they have and they come up, it's having that
boundary place as saying I will be open to having a nice
relationship if it's there, particularly from doing it for
these children. And I'm modeling that really
respectful, mature adult behavior for them.
But maybe, yeah, don't get sucked in.
Know that there's still going to be this boundary.
You still have two separate family.
You have your life. They have their life in that
other home. And yes, I'll be available.
And yes, we can communicate, we can be friendly, but I'm still
me and I'm still going to do things the way I want.
You're not going to shift the way I create rules within my
home or the level of discipline because you don't want that
either to become, you know, it could be becoming friendly.
So you start doing things the way I like them, or so I can
start finding out everything that's going on in the home.
You know, for my own queries and what I'm wondering.
So it's yeah, it's just I guess keeping that, that boundary up
and look, it's great if you can have a fantastic relationship,
go for it is so important. And if you can make it work, my
hats off to you. Like that is fantastic.
And then I guess when you say one piece of advice, I mean,
firstly I put a say I commend like I'm in awe of any person
who is a step parent. It is a hard job.
I cannot imagine being responsible for someone else's
child and then not being appreciated for it.
Half the time I get it by kids or being told off by kids, being
told you're not my parent, that's challenging or not having
your pet, you know, your partner or husband, wife, whatever, step
up and support you. And that might just be because
they don't see it. They forget that they need to
show you that support. And it's not just behind closed
doors, it's in front of kids and in front of other people.
And I think that is so important.
And we spoke about it before, but for me, I think that really
is the biggest part of all of it.
I guess my advice really is just stay flexible where you can.
There's a need for, you know, being rigid within life.
But living in a blended family, living in a Co parenting family,
any sort of different family with its own new rules is hard.
So be a little bit flexible. Things will change.
We need to continuously be adaptable to change, whether
it's kids growing up, whether it's the step parent dynamic,
whatever it might be. We're all going through an
emotional journey ourselves. It is hard to be flexible and
yeah, be open into therapy. That would be my biggest thing.
Thank you so much and thank you so much for sharing so much of
your insight and knowledge today with our listeners.
This was so fun for me and Alyssa to listen to too.
And we are. So yes, it was very therapeutic.
So thank you for being with us here today.
And before we log off, can you go ahead and tell listeners
where to find you and your work? Yeah, absolutely.
So Instagram, I share a lot of videos and tips and things.
That's at the Gabriella Pomari and my website.
I've got a lot of free tools. I just put out a high conflict
Co parenting guide. It's free.
Put me an e-mail, I'll send you a copy.
I've got a free E communication guide.
So how to communicate better than a family and a particular
Co parent reset too. They're all free resources.
So www.thecollaborativecoparent.com
and yeah, take advantage of that.
It was lots of fun. So thank you for having me on.
I kind of feel healed a little bit too, speaking about all of
that. I think we all wish you were the
bio mom we had that could appreciate us on the sidelines.
Right now. Oh.
You're well. Thank you so much, Gabriella.
Thanks, I'll hang out but I'll leave it.
That's it for this week on Stepmom Side Chats.
We're Alyssa and Becca, your stepmom besties.
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