Hey everyone, welcome to Stepmom side Chats.
We are your hosts, Alyssa and Rebecca. 2 stepmoms.
Who are done pretending everything's perfect.
This is where we talk boundaries, PO parenting, hard
truths, healing, and the stuff nobody says out loud.
If you're ready for real talk, real growth and a little bit of.
Spice, Let's get into it. Hey everyone, we are back.
Back again. Apparently Becca and I have more
to say, but this week we're very excited because we have a
special guest and I think he should just speak for himself.
This has a lot of depth. This guest has a lot of
knowledge and a lot of background in a different area
of the stepmom arena. Go ahead and introduce yourself.
Welcome to our podcast studio. Yeah, thank you for having me.
My name is Jay Skibbons. I am a Co parent, coach and
consultant. So really what I do is I help
with the emotional side of things.
What I find is that there's a lot of legal help, there's a lot
of even therapy help. But what people get stuck on is
like how do I manage my day-to-day emotions and
triggers? So that's where I come in and
help with that emotional regulation and nervous system
reset, which pretty much everybody in the entire Co
parenting process needs help with.
Yeah, let me just tell you, we have our membership too, which
is kind of a sidebar. But a lot of what we're doing
with our one on ones with those stepmoms is like helping them
regulate and even just like grounding themselves so that
they can regulate. But OK, tell us first just a
little bit of your background, how you got into this, where,
how did this all come about and give us a little bit of the the
nitty. Gritty that we like to hear
yeah, no. So work wise, it happened.
I was a teacher and like funny enough, I was a 6th grade
teacher at the school that I went to.
So I really thought that that was going to make this whole
prodigal son returning and I was going to be a principal and I
had this whole trajectory lined up.
But I did not last in that system.
Like I came in with too much of A disruptive nature and they
chewed me up and spit me out pretty fast.
I understood the kids. I didn't get the adult side of
things very well. And that was right before the
pandemic hit. And during the pandemic, we all
listened to a lot of podcasts. Yeah.
Like we listened to, there's a lot of podcasts eliciting going
on. And it was also like when
Facebook was like, you couldn't post any sort of opinion without
somebody jumping down your throat.
So what I really got interested in was I would just ask
open-ended questions, like, like, tell me about the first
memory you have or like, what was your relationship like with
your dad? And people really, really liked
it. And like, really, really would
flock to my page. Like, so much so that there was
like, one day I didn't post a question and somebody posted on
the previous day, like, is there anybody just waiting for this
guy to ask us a question? And I was like, OK, So like,
people really do like, curiosity can get me pretty far.
So you know. You made it, I think.
Yeah, when you get that kind of engagement.
Where did he go? Yeah, yeah.
So it was because I'm always a curious person, so that so I
reached out to a couple of relationship coaches and kind of
asked how they got started. One of them put me onto a
certification program. And then I was really like
between like parenting and relationships.
I started posting on Instagram and then like 8 months of
posting about parenting, I started talking about Co
parenting and it was like as soon as I said the word Co
parenting, people were like what does this guy say?
Like it was overnight that it was clear that there wasn't
really a voice like mine in the Co parenting world.
That's really like it was like from September of 2021.
I left my job like January 2022. It was that fast.
Wow, OK, yes, I'm so excited to hear from you because like you
said, there's not a lot of people that are like you in this
space. I see a lot of women, which you
know, nothing against them, but is very interesting to hear from
a male perspective, you know, the challenges of Co parenting.
So before we get really into today's topic, can you share a
little bit about your Co parenting journey, your kids,
whatever you would like to share and feel comfortable sharing
with us today? Yeah, and it I, this is part of
my character arc or or you know, hero journey.
Me and my Co parents were never married.
We were friends with benefits or what like that was it's like for
those of you who like know about childhood wounds, a lot of our
wounds were around feeling chosen and we were trying to get
where we wanted through sex and in our in our own ways.
And we ended up with two kids and like it was messy like that
is the shortest possible way to explain it, but it is like there
was manipulation on both sides, lying on both sides.
It was just really I like messy better than toxic because I
think that we both just we were both pretty hurt, like we were
playing and without realizing it, right.
And but then it turns out that through and asking a lot more
questions and then do my own investigation that my children
aren't biologically mine and I didn't find that out.
And what? Yeah.
What? Pause.
I didn't know this.
OK, keep going. This is good.
Right, so I found out when my older 1 was like 2 1/2 and the
younger one was a little over a year.
So I was dad, you know, and I think that this is where like so
much of my life, like I grew up with a single mom.
I don't, I don't know my dad at all.
I was wanted to be a dad. So like I came into fatherhood
like I came in prepared. Like I came in, I had worked
with kids before. I'd worked in daycares.
It was like finally like I'd gotten my own.
I'd worked in daycares for like 5 years and I finally had my own
kids. Like I didn't, I wasn't scared
of anything. I think that was actually kind
of scary for her, to be completely honest, because like
she had kids already. And I like, I think that a lot
of moms have a layer of confidence from like being more
confident than the dad, like having more like natural
tendencies than the dad. And I'm there like I am not
scared to swaddle. I'm not like I there's nothing
that I'm not going to do right. A dad that.
Swaddles that, What's up? A dad that swaddles.
I know. That's so cool.
What the interesting thing is I've worked with dads before and
there is sometimes a real layer of like hesitancy to to do those
things. And I just had zero of that.
And I didn't realize that that was different or special until I
worked with more dads and heard their experiences around like
the newborn phase. But yeah, when when I found out
the boys weren't mine, I had done adna test on my own like
without her knowing because we were already Co parenting at
that point. So it really just like shattered
my reality. And I think that that's part of
what I bring to the table as far as a coach goes.
Like, so I coach primarily moms. A lot of them come to me.
And it's like I had tried to keep our lives together.
I tried to, you know, keep the facade up, really.
And then finally, we've hit a breaking point.
And, you know, I couldn't do it anymore.
We get divorced, and their identity is just shook to the
core. And so to me, it's like I
learned how to rebuild this identity that like no longer was
biologically tied, right? Like everybody kind of thinks
parents are biological and like not everybody, but you know, the
majority. That's how I came into it.
So finding that out, I would mean I was angry.
I was, I was angry, I was hurt, heartbroken.
And I will say like I, I, I carried that resentment for a
couple of years. Like we would still Co parent.
I didn't really shake whether I wanted to be there for the kids.
But for a while she was dead to me.
Like she was just. I did not care how she felt and
that only motivated me for a while.
But then you know, the journey a couple of years it, I think the
resentment got really heavy to keep carrying and that's like
really when things started to change.
OK, quick question because I know all the listeners are
thinking this. What made you do Adna test?
Did you have a hunch? Was she acting weird and was was
her telling you that the kids are yours?
Is that like a manipulation tactic to keep you around or was
that she really thought that they were yours?
So I really appreciate that last question because I think that
one thing that I always do is I want to hear more than like when
somebody says the word abuse or manipulation or narcissist, I'm
like, OK, but tell me more. Like tell me about the
characteristics or the behaviors because so many people say abuse
and then we just write off the abuser like there's no other
questions needed. That person's dead.
But OK. So like what really happened?
Like I said, like I really feel like we were bullying.
I feel like I was using sex to feel chosen, feel wanted, feel
validated. I think that she was using sex
to get housewife home life like get what she wanted in life.
I think sometimes we can manipulate people
subconsciously, right? Right.
I think it kind of sounds like that.
It's not like, oh, she was thinking, I'm going to
manipulate. Him I don't think this was like
this wasn't premeditated manipulation, because I think
that people pleasers manipulate, you know, and it do they are
they are they malicious? No, but is it so ingrained in
them that that what they want isn't naturally going to come to
them because they deserve it? Yes, and I feel like when we
don't think that we deserve what we actually want, we manipulate
to try to get it. A lot of it came down to like in
the to anybody who like really wants the story.
I have done podcasts where I really go through the whole
story, but it's we, we, there was a third child and we went
through the whole pregnancy and at certain points there was a,
you know, she had told me that her tubes were tied before that.
And then it really got to the point where I was like the next
doctor's appointment we go to, I'm going to ask them how this
happened. And she was like, well, after
like months of saying that she had had her tubes tied, it was,
she admitted that she lied about that.
And once that, like once that lie was confirmed, it really
just was like anything else is on the table to be have been
lied about. So, so I just really, I, I did
it on my own without her knowing.
So it wasn't like she sat me down and told me.
It was like I sat her down and told her that I found out.
Wow, that's a lot. Well, it sounds like with that
history, it came a lot of knowledge that you have now that
you put into your Co parent coaching business.
So really excited to hear a bit a little bit more about this.
From what we've experienced and talked to other stepmoms about,
it seems like sometimes when people begin Co parenting,
sometimes they still are emotionally married to one
another. So can you tell me maybe a
little bit more about that, what you see in, you know,
conversations with your clients about what actual Co parenting
is and when you're still kind of emotionally married to that
person and how that kind of affects the whole journey?
No, I appreciate that. That's A and that's a good way
to think about it, like still being emotionally married.
I feel like the way I would see it is that they're still so
stuck in their habits and their patterns and their conditioning.
And I feel like, you know, the moms I work with tend to be on
the people pleasing side. So a lot of them have a hard
time letting go of control. They have a hard time, you know,
even seeing the dad with somebody new.
So they get protective and they get to a point where it can be
hard to know who they themselves are without staying in the role
they had been in, which was to do everything mom.
And so to me, what I see is that when the mom is like that, like
the dad will use that to his advantage when it works.
Think about it, if you were a dad who had the kids every other
weekend and the mom was taking care of everything, that's a
hard thing to be like, Nope. Like I'm going to do more.
I'm going to take, you know, I'm going to motivate myself to
become better without reason. And then what I find is that
that guy can find somebody new and want to do better for that
person, which does change the dynamic of the situation.
But sometimes men have a really hard time of understanding how
their actions impact women, so they don't have the emotional
bandwidth to be like, I can understand how my current
girlfriend wife wants me to act towards her and my ex-wife still
has expectations that she's carrying.
I'm going to make some people upset and I've got a captain us
through this. I think that a lot of men really
struggle with that. Yeah, this is not an episode for
the spouses. All the men are going to be
like, wow. No, I think that that is
completely accurate and as head on for a lot of the issues that
our stepmoms in the community bring up to us.
And we see a lot of those like marriage and tactic issues
because the husband may have like brought on these issues for
the stepmom because he has this past with another woman.
Then he has these kids that come over from this other person's
house that maybe we shouldn't have had to ever have in our
life. And we're having to plan our
trips around someone else's schedule.
So yeah, we do build that resentment too that we talked
about earlier with our husbands because we're maybe worried
about what's the other house going to think, you know, what's
going to come into our house this week with transition day.
And so that being said that I wanted to ask about respectful
communication kind of shifting into like when a new partner
comes into the picture, which all the stepmoms are, and maybe
somewhere where the new partner. But in most of our cases,
believe it or not, which is what I've had to like combat some of
the trolls on Instagram about is that it actually isn't always
the man that leaves because so many haters are like, well, you
did this to yourself. And it's like, oh, no, trust me,
I met my husband when he was going through his divorce.
So it actually isn't always we're not always the evil person
that broke a family. But so I understand like there
is a level of respect for the bio moms that because we know
that it is hard to see someone come in and take over that role
and, you know, care for your kids and they don't get that
control of telling us what to do in our house.
So my question, Long story short, what does respectful
communication look like when there's a new partner in the
picture? So, and I, what I love about
what you just said is that you probably unwittingly talked
about how it feels. And So what I find over and over
again is that that gets communicated a lot.
Like the feelings get communicated and the unresolved
feelings. And what I, you know, what we
talked about in my programs are that your unresolved uncooked
emotions are raw hamburger. And if you're, if you don't
process your emotions, you give them to somebody else and
they're uncooked, it's like giving them raw hamburger and
then they'll eat it, they'll get sick and then they'll spew it
back at you. So what I find more often than
not is that there's a lot more communication that needs to
happen internally before you say anything out loud.
There's a like, even, again, probably not on purpose, there's
a lot of assumptions that get tossed around.
So one of the first things I help my clients understand is
like dropping your assumptions about how they're going to
react, what they're going to say, like what they're thinking.
You need to start like start by dropping your assumptions and
then the next biggest thing is like, what are you actually
wanting to get out of this communication?
So many people start a conversation or text and they
haven't stopped and been like, what do I actually want here?
And most of the time you want respect or you want
acknowledgement or you want validation.
But if you don't know what you're actually after, then if
you don't get it, you're frustrated and then you carry
that with you. So what I find is that a lot
more of the communication that like my my clients end up
communicating a lot less by the time we're done working together
because there's a lot less that you actually need to say when
you're Co parenting. Stepmoms, how are you coping
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I'm lighting my big ass candles to calm my big ass anxieties and
honestly it changes the whole mood of the house.
Same chaos, just calmer vibes and way better energy.
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life comes with big ass feelings.
This is so valid. This is so accurate and very
validating. I was just talking on like
importance versus impact because and we have a parent coach
involved in our situation and she said, you know, these
conversations are business emails or business texts.
This is a Co parent and it's a business partner.
Nothing else needs to be said. Take out, remove the feelings
from the conversation. And when you do remove that, a
lot of the drama gets left out and then the conversations get
so much shorter. And it's so nice, but it's hard
to get there, as I'm sure you're aware.
Yeah. And I'll just say quickly, like
what replaces that is trust, because when you're
communicating that much, there's a lot more you want in control.
Like everybody who's entering into a Co parenting situation,
whether it's bio mom, stepmom, bio dad, stepdad, there's a lot
of uncertainty and there's rules are uncertain.
You know, the things that you need to do or say, how do I act?
There's a lot of uncertainty and that brings up a lot of fear.
And it's human nature to want control when we're in those
situations. So to me, the opposite of
control is trust. And if you can start to trust
yourself that you can handle things, you learn how to trust
that they can handle things. And then you don't have to have
everything like so ironclad so decided because I feel like most
of the time when people end up with these like super strict
parenting plans then any deviation gets pinged as why Co
parenting isn't working. And to me that just causes a lot
of stress and conflict. Definitely.
I wanted to hear if maybe you've ever experienced with some of
your clients where the stepmom and the bio mom are the primary
communicators and kind of leaving dad out.
I just kind of am interested to hear your perspective on that,
if you think that is healthy, long term, sustainable, anything
that you could you know give us insight too on that?
Yeah, I, I, I, I laugh a little bit because IA lot of moms that
I work with don't like that. Like especially at the
beginning. And because when we get under
the root of that, there is a lot of fear of being replaced.
There is a lot of fear that this new person is taking over is
providing things that maybe the mom can't also in some cases,
like getting to live the life that they were wanting to live.
So there there can be some emotions from the bio mom.
But what I often find, and like, I still haven't found very many
cases at all that this isn't true.
Those two women end up having a lot in common.
I mean, they attracted the same man, so there's a lot that they
have in common. They probably communicate much
better than the man does. They're probably more organized.
They're probably like the reason she went from woman A to woman
B. He didn't get better at
organizing activities. He didn't get better at planning
out his calendar. So why would he be in charge of
doing those things? So to me, what I work on with
the bio moms is a lot more of like trusting herself, being
sure of her own identity so that this new woman isn't a threat.
Because more often than not, she it isn't like the trouble isn't
that it's this woman, it's that this is the replacement or this
is the, you know, sometimes it's the affair partner.
Sometimes it's just a regular meat and they were dating, but
to me it's like, I don't think there's never been a time where
I'm like, oh, you guys shouldn't be doing that.
Interesting. Yeah, no, I just wanted to hear
like your perspective on that, if you think that that is, you
know, healthy. Because in my personal life,
sometimes I have found that my husband and bio mom that I
actually do have a fairly good relationship with, it's easier
for myself and bio mom to communicate on things sometimes.
Of course that goes in ebbs and flow, as we all know, Co
parenting relationships evolve as kids get older and different,
you know, milestones happen. But I was just kind of was, you
know, interested in hearing your perspective on that and if you
think that it's healthier for bio dad and bio mom just to
communicate and keep stepmom out of it or just what your thoughts
were on that. But based on, you know, your
work with, you know, primarily bio moms or you know, moms in
general, what are some of like the behaviors that you think
from stepmom moms that might trigger defensiveness in these
moms? Because Alyssa and I, you know,
we have different situations, but we've had, you know,
challenges with bio moms, obviously, as all stepmoms
probably do. But we want to obviously make
this the best type of relationship and blended family
that we possibly can and have the kids thrive because we see
how the kids are are affected. So what are some things?
Once again, behaviors from us stepmoms put us in our place,
Jay, that maybe we can help when it comes to this.
This is like a help, help us help you or help you, you help
us help us. Like if this is we, let me just
put it this way, most of the stepmoms that we're hearing
from, they say that bio mom is not taking any help that she's
getting. So Co parenting classes, Co
parenting coach, family therapy and bio mom doesn't change like
she puts a front on in these. And so we're like, that's fine,
whatever, you know, it'll happen when it happens.
What can we do right now to save the situation?
Save the Children from crazy, you know?
No, I appreciate how you guys worded those questions because
to me, there's so many things I teach and I believe in and I see
working sometimes run counter to what is just shoved down
people's throats. And what I mean by that is like
when you, when everybody is trying to do what's best for the
kids, the more I can ask a couple of questions and find out
this, the adults, like the adults are really wanting what's
best for them. And not always in a selfish way,
but in a lot of times to avoid discomfort, like parents don't
want to deal with the emotions that come with Co parenting
because it does bring up a lot of inner wounds.
It brings up a lot of defensiveness.
You have to face conflict. You have to make decisions where
the other person's not going to be happy with you.
So people pleasers, this is hell for people pleasers.
OK, Most women fall into the people pleasing category.
So what I am asking for from everybody in this situation,
moms, stepmoms, dads, everybody is to take accountability.
And what I talked about with the raw hamburger idea, it's that if
everybody would spend 15 minutes journaling out their emotions
every day and being like, you know, today, I felt like this
was so unfair that I had to stay at home and dad and bio mom took
Susan to the whatever that sucks.
I don't like that. If that individual stepmom can
process her own emotions, can sit with her own emotions so
that she gets clarity. What I see over and over again
with my clients is that they come in and they've created a
life to avoid triggers. They've created a life to avoid
their emotions. And I know that happens with
dads. I know that happens with
stepmoms. You try to create a life,
they're so great, the kids are great, everything's great.
And then what do you do when there's conflict?
What do you do when you're triggered?
That's what I help with is that sports cars are great until
there's bumps in the road. So I don't need a whole bunch of
sports cars that look great. I need some vehicles that can
actually get the job done and get the kids from this is a mess
to work actually going somewhere.
So I would say the best thing that could happen is the adults
take accountability for their own emotions.
On that topic too, are there any behaviors in particular like
from stepmoms that you have seen prime examples of that trigger
defensiveness in bio moms? Because we can only help
ourselves. And I'm, I know we're going to
hear a lot of stepmoms saying like, well, I'm going to do that
15 minute journaling, but she's not going to OK, so, but.
That's exactly what I say. Accountability like a yes, so I
would say like anything, and this is probably not the kosher
answer, but it it could be anything.
It could be trying to be nice, it could be trying to match your
husband's energy and not talking to her.
It could be anything like triggers are really like
attached to that person's conditioning, their experiences,
their wounds. So something that triggers
Alyssa's bio mom wouldn't trigger Becca's and vice versa.
So it's like that's where I feel like people run into traps is
like, oh, if I just do XY and Z then my bio mom shouldn't be
ever triggered. And it's like, no, that's not
how life works. That's not how Co parenting
works. But just because she gets
triggered doesn't mean you have to stop doing that doesn't mean
that you did it wrong. That just is her raw hamburger
that she cooks. She handles it.
And there's not one exact answer for every situation.
That's true. That's true.
Like where, where does that exist in life?
Like where does that like if you were to like what?
Like I want to make $10,000 more a month, you could find 50
different people that would give you 50 different answers and
they could be all 50 legit. So to me like people have this
idea of what Co parenting should be.
Now let me break this down in a very easy way.
You know because both of you are married now, correct?
Yes. I'm very curious and why I why
Why I ask is because one thing that happens in a very similar
way is monogamy. Have either one of you sat down
with your husband and discussed what monogamy means to you guys?
Right. No, definitely.
No, it's just. That's true.
That's assumed that you're monogamous, so of course that
means the same thing to both of you.
But for Alyssa, that could be, if you look at another man,
we're going to have a stern conversation when we get home.
And for Rebecca, it could be, you know, we could dance with
other people. I could have fun, I could flirt,
and that's kosher. So to me, what happens is that
people come into Co parenting who have never done it before
and they're like, oh, I know what Co parenting is.
I know how it's supposed to work.
And they try to make their lives fit into this definition instead
of realizing that different people have different realities
and they have different experiences and they could bring
in their own wounds. And instead of creating from
that, they like try to use stencils and templates and
scripts and try to fit their life into that.
So to me, I want people to take ownership over their situations
instead of trying to fit their lives into this made-up standard
of what Co parenting should be. Yeah.
I think that's why also Becca and I, our platform is really
just like relating to other stepmoms about how hard it can
be and trying to like bring in people like yourself that have
experience with the other side to give us a new perspective
because we just don't believe in those.
I'll say like other stepmom or podcasts that want to give us
like directives and this is what you do.
And it's because I agree it is so different and because between
Becca and I, there's three bio moms.
It's like she has two she's dealing with and I want.
And so we've been on this journey together and it's just
everything is different. I have a question though,
because you deal with dads. What role do the dads play in
all this? Where do we get them?
I know it's different, each one is.
Different. So glad.
No, I'm so glad you brought that up because like I've been had in
my head for like the last 10 minutes.
Like we were just letting dads off the hook right now.
No, don't let them. It's all their fault.
Well, it's, it's not OK. I agree.
And I wanted to set that straight because to me, one
thing that I bring into my coaching is like the ideas
around masculine and feminine energies.
And what I mean by that is that there are some clear balances
that happen when like, there's a masculine and a feminine.
And to me, the masculine sets the tone in a relationship, in a
home, in whatever. And then it's the feminine's
role to like read that tone. And So what I see is that a lot
of times guys will tell me this specific thing that like, you
know, when I first started with my wife and my ex-wife, I was so
sure of myself and you know, I made decisions and she liked
that. And she like there's multiple
men have even told me like, you know, she told me that she liked
me because I was the only person who like really put her in her
place. OK.
And not like in a negative way, but like in a he's sure of
himself. Yeah, masculine way, yeah.
Correct. So then over the course of the
marriage, he loses that. And to me, a big part, a big
piece of that happens around pregnancy and birth.
Because before pregnancy and birth, he can fart and she
thinks it's funny, she's sad. He brings her chocolate or
culture, right? Like he can do things and
there's like a set consequence or reaction or whatever.
She gets pregnant, everything is different. 1 + 1 no longer
equals 2 every time. Sometimes it's four, sometimes
it's two, sometimes it's 14. And I am that is so accurate
even I have a one year old. Right.
So then what happens is that he like keeps trying to do what
used to work and it doesn't work anymore and that he loses
confidence, he loses his sense of self.
Like what happens with both sides is that we have to like
reconfigure. And a lot of men, they stop
trying because they don't like the emotions, They don't like
her reactions, They don't feel cared for.
And a lot of the people that I work with, there was a person
who like, did a lot of the like taken care of.
They're usually the people pleaser, the fixer.
And they, you know, that's usually the woman to be fair.
And they were with a man who likes being taken care of.
And so she has a baby now that needs more of that.
She is taking care of a human that she grew inside of her.
And he's 2nd place. That's hard because nobody
really prepares the guy for like, hey, you got to just
handle that. Like you, you're going to be
second place. You're not as important,
especially if you attracted somebody who pours out to the
point where they are empty. So now she's pouring out to the
point where she is empty into this baby and dad is like,
there's nothing I do that's good enough.
So to me, that's where a lot of the disconnect that's like to be
fair, that's also where some of the cheating happens.
Some of the abuse happens is during pregnancy and that first
year. And then like to, you know, to
bring this into what bio moms go through, then they carry that
trauma. They carry that like the impact
of that happening at their most vulnerable.
That's a lot of the like the things that I'm still working on
years later with them is how could you treat me like that
when I was pregnant? How could you treat me like that
when I and like the first year of our kids life and the guy is
like, well, because what I used to do didn't work anymore and I
didn't know what to do. And then he starts to get
frustrated. So to me it's just it's such a
wild thing to look at because nobody's prepared for it.
And like, I know none of you guys weren't like prepped for
that and we just all deal with the consequences.
What are some strategies or advice would you have for
couples like that to help the situation?
Because it sounds like how you're describing it.
And I really appreciate how you've just been careful using
your verbiage and your perspective during this whole
episode is that no one is at fault, right?
It's like everyone comes in with their own wounds and then we
contribute to maybe this problem or this obstacle that we need to
get through to either make our marriage better or a blended
family better. So I'm just interested to hear
what may be quick strategies or tips you would have married
couples that are going through that because a lot of our
stepmoms are newly married and have just had babies.
So, yeah, and it because I did, I think that it is good to
remove fault and blame on on a like general level.
And what I mean by that is I think like strategies that would
work is consistent check insurance.
Like if I'm married, I need to be checking in with this other
person. Like, hey, like what's something
that you felt supported by that I did this week?
Because I think that for men, one of the things I have heard
in relationships is like, why did you do that that way?
And like, why did you say that or why did you treat me that
way? And my legitimate response is I
wasn't even thinking about you when I did it.
And that could be so frustrating and heartbreaking for the woman
to hear. Like, what do you mean?
I wasn't thinking about that. You weren't thinking about me.
All I do is think about you. So like, there has to be this
like bridge and this way for the man to learn.
That isn't punitive. That isn't like, well, you
should know. Well, you married me and I was
like this the whole time. So maybe if you really want this
to work, let's work on this together.
So I would say checking in like once a week on and like asking
each other like 3 to 5 questions.
Like how did you feel supported this week?
Like what would you like me to do to support you this coming
week? You know, what ways do you want
me to love you? What ways do you feel like I
haven't? Like what do you feel like I
have noticed or haven't been noticing?
But I really think that check insurance are crucial.
And then there's this level of trust because and neither side
is ever fully going to understand what the other side
is feeling are going through. Like that's like, again, if we
go back to the feminine and masculine, the way that I
explained it, people haven't heard this before is, you know,
if you imagine somebody on the frontier, like a family on the
frontier, like 1800s man is going to go out and hunt.
The man is going to go out and like the masculine, the man is
going to go out and do those things, put himself in danger,
protect from invaders, protect from, you know, tough like
animals. And the a lot of times a mom
would stay home, take care of the house, take care of the
kids. They both have equally important
jobs. If both of them went out and
hunted and a bear attacked them, they're both dead.
Kids are screwed. OK, If both of them stay home
and the they get attacked by Raiders, they're both dead, kids
are screwed. So they both have to do their
respective roles, but then trust in the other person to handle
their role and understand that Mom's not going to understand
what it's like to get out there and hunt at 5:00 AM, and Dad's
not going to understand what it's like to stay home with the
kids and have those frustrations.
And obviously in 2026, we don't stay to those same exact gender
specifics, but there are roles that each person inhabits that
the other person won't always understand.
So you have to be willing to understand, hey, this is hard
for you in a way that I might not get.
And I'm just going to like, I, I get that.
I don't get it. And I feel like if you can do
those two things, you got a chance.
Yeah, a little piece of advice from my Becca Gnosis.
But my husband and I were going to a marriage class.
It was like 4 weeks, just one day a week.
And I literally just learned that last night in our marriage
class. A bit of like I heard you say
this. This is what I felt from it.
Like to understand the mindset. Do you know the book Men are
like waffles, Women are like Spaghetti?
I do not know. Why does nobody know this?
I already mentioned this in another episode and Becca had no
idea. But men think in like segments.
They get the syrup, gets trapped in one box.
Women kind of are all over the place.
We can multitask more, like we can function a little bit better
than men, but then we get chaotic because we're doing so
many things at once. And then so anyways, I think
understanding men versus women, like the men is from Mars, women
are from Venus stuff. I think it's so helpful in
navigating that. Something I still don't
understand though, like my husband, Becca's husband, and
we're hearing this from other followers too, that the men are
just avoiding the conflict. I get that they usually are less
like high conflict in the women are we hear that, you know, bio
moms, high conflict or bio moms. I'm sure saying set moms or high
conflict. I think it just looks that way
because we are emotional. We talk more, but why?
How is that becoming a thing that then the men back up, they
want to avoid the conflict and they freeze out almost.
I feel like that could be like, you can have an entire podcast
just on that topic. I think that a quick answer is
that men just aren't initiated the same way that they used to
be. Men usually go out in the forest
and like, you know, be sent out there by people and then, OK,
come back, you know, on Sunday morning and they would have to
fend for themselves. And I mean that in a way of I, I
feel like the way that men approach problems now, if it's
not like X's and O's and it involves emotion or conflict,
they're just not prepared because they've been taught that
their own emotions are bad or to be, you know, suppressed.
So then when they're like, think about it this way.
If your whole life you've been told emotions are weak or you'll
be like, there's obviously derogatory names for men who
grew up expressing their emotions.
So from a very early age, they've been taught to suppress
their emotions. And now they're in a situation
where there's an ex-wife fully emotional valid full emotions
and a new wife full of valid emotions.
It was. It would take a miracle for a
regular man to somehow magically be like, oh, I know how to
handle this. I can I can rise to the occasion
that man is going to have to do such deep inner work.
And like, this is where I will say it with respect to
everybody, because I have coach clients who end up like who are
like I meet them when they have a Co parent and a current
partner. And then like a year later,
they're like Jay, I broke up with my current partner because
of what they learned that they that started applying their
relationship and the relationship is no longer a fit.
So to me, this is where like I don't have any negative to say
about stepmoms, but it is like a little bit of like you got to
recognize who you chose to marry.
And this is part of the reality that like you have the
information. The same thing I talked to the
bio moms about is like, do you want to know when bio moms
usually knew that this guy wasn't right for them?
Almost always is a first date and then they're like, well, you
know, maybe it maybe it'll get better.
Maybe I can change him. Maybe he won't always be this
angry. Maybe this is how relationships
should be. And to be fair, I think a lot of
women go into relationships like that, which then lets men off
the hook to ever change. So I feel like a lot of this
comes back to the men need to be better.
Like to be fair, like just across the board.
If like if there was one thing I could help with to help stepmoms
it would be to get the men to step up in their life.
Like that's men need to do better.
Yeah, no, I, I, I love that. And I think that definitely
resonates with with us and our followers.
And, you know, not that men should be, you know, let off the
hook per SE, but I do think, like we've mentioned several
times throughout this episode, it is harder because of, you
know, society and all of that for men to communicate their
emotions effectively. And sometimes that's why we do
see those high conflict, you know, situations for today.
We did have a couple listener questions for you.
I know you did, just from listening to past episodes of
other podcasts you've been on. You do have some experience in
the court system. So I go ahead, sorry.
No, no, you're fine. So someone did say they didn't
know if you had any insight to this, if the court was able to
mandate midweek dinners just because this stepmom sees that
it's, you know, when he sees his bio mom during the midweek, it
kind of dysregulates him and he he melts down a lot after.
So this stepmom saying I don't see a benefit to these midweek
dinners and I just wanted to hear your perspective on that.
Yeah. So it is interesting because I
would say that my experience with court, whether it's my own
or with clients, is that the best thing you can do is stay
out of court. Let's try not to get things
mandated. I've said this in every episode
now 100%. Yeah, I mean, because what to me
what that a lot of what that is, is that it's a tool for
outsourcing your regulation. So whether this mom wants to not
mandate it or the bio mom wants to mandate it, what each side is
trying to do is like, well, if I can get the court to say it,
then we have to do it or they can't make us do it, which then
takes the decision out of that individual, right.
And that's it's better if somebody else decides like, you
know, it's uncomfortable. So I guess coming back to the
question of like, can the courts mandate it?
You can get pretty much anything written into a document.
And if you get it signed and you get it approved, it could be.
To me, what I would encourage this stepmom to do is to start
to understand like if it's happening for now, use this as
an opportunity to understand what it is about your kids
behavior. That one you're calling
dysregulated to how it actually makes you feel because it's only
a problem because it's triggering her.
My kids are dysregulated when they come back from their moms
quite often. And it used to just like it used
to derail me. I would blame, I would get so
upset. And now they act relatively the
same and 99% of time is cool because I could handle it.
So I use that dysregulation. I use their behavior to make
myself a better parent because I had to get honest about the
hardest part of handling this. This regulation was the
discomfort it brought up for me that I can't control them.
I can't make them feel better. I can't stop this.
And once I sat in front of the mirror and like worked through
that problem, dude, kids are going to be dysregulated.
What do you, who are you trying to raise that your kids never
going to be dysregulated? How about we use this
opportunity while it's there to become a better parent?
Yeah, I think the uncomfortable topic, that's a whole episode in
itself too, which you agree was just, that's so important for
kids. There's uncomfortable aspects of
this whole thing. There's uncomfortable aspects
for bio mom, step mom and dad all separately and then all
together like with communication.
So anyways, OK, I'm asked the next question.
This one says my stepson loves hockey.
He is a part of both the travel and a home team.
My mom does not allow him to go on her weeks.
She used to come to the games when he was with us which was
confusing for him. She says she will take him on
her time because she says they are busy making memories.
It really effects him because he loves playing.
Do you think this would be worth going back to mediation about?
The parenting plan is very clear that if he is a part of an
activity, he needs to go all the time.
So the easiest thing to do in this situation is point out like
where did that bio mom talk about how it feels for her?
She clearly, like she pointed out, she knows how it feels for
her step, her stepson. She somehow knows the
motivations of the bio mom, but she didn't say how it feels for
her. So until she's working, right?
And that's what people do. That's what I mean by like
people give away their raw hamburger, they give it to the
other person. Like that clearly bothers the
stepmom. So she should be willing to sit
with like what is it about this situation and that bothers me so
much? Is it the lack of control?
Do I feel disrespected? Does it like am IA person who
prides myself on being friendly with everybody and I can't seem
to make friends with this person?
Like there's so much that this stepmom can unpack with herself
about the situation before she goes to mediation.
That would just be outsourcing her emotional regulation.
So, yeah, my, I had my kids signed up for tumbling.
There were times that practices fell on mom's time and she
didn't take them unless, I mean, I won't even say unless that
kids go into the NHL, that is not a big deal.
But it's more like, clearly it bothers you that she is not
following the plan. Maybe you're following the plane
and you're used to getting a Gold Star.
A lot of us, a lot of women in particular, grew up like that.
Grades, honor roll, dressing right, doing the right thing got
you. The thing that doesn't exist in
Co parenting, and that's a hard concept for a lot of people to
understand is like, my good behavior doesn't get rewarded
here. And it's like, Nope, Nope, not
even, Nope. You just, you got to do it in a
way that works for you because you got to be the one that lays
your head down at the end of the night and sleeps peacefully.
I am really interested to just hear a little bit about what you
think about resentment. I work on this a lot with some
of our stepmoms. And from my perspective, I think
resentment really comes from fear and expectations that we
have for other people. And when they don't meet those
expectations, we become resentful, which also develops
out of fear. And so I just wanted to see if
you had maybe, you know, just a quick little tip or whatever
what have you for stepmoms who might be dealing with some
really a tough resentment. Well, I think that you nailed it
when you said it's like the space between the expectations
or their preformed identity and the reality of what happens.
Because I think that a lot of moms, stepmoms are bio moms.
But obviously stepmoms here come into the situation with an
expectation of how they're going to act, how things are going to
go. And then the reality doesn't
match that. And it, it's so easy as a human
to be like, well, they're the problem.
They're not let, they're not letting me behave the way I
thought I could behave. And that's a hard thing for
anybody to come through. It's like, well, and that's why
accountability is so important. You act this way and they react
a certain way, you still get to choose whether you want to act
that way or not. Like just because they reacted
poorly doesn't mean you can't act that way.
It just means that right now that's how they're reacting.
And I guess like to pull it back to that example, it's if you
really zoomed out a little bit, if the if that was happening
with the hockey situation where they're not letting the kid go
to practice and you come in with that resentful energy like,
well, I paid for this and this is so disrespectful.
You're always working against us.
That's going to be met with so much resistance.
Like that energetically is just so repulsive.
But if you're like, you know what, that sucks.
But like I understand or I don't understand, but there's nothing
I can do. That type of energy completely
changes the dynamic and it allows for a lot more.
So what I think that moms, stepmoms, dads, especially
parenting, this is a good parenting tip for everybody.
If you allow complaining to exist you'll get a lot more
done. So many people are trying to get
to boundaries or changes in behavior or changes in the Co
parenting without the other person being allowed to
complain. My kids do a lot of stuff and
they complain about it all. What did you allow the other
person to complain and let that be their control?
You'll get a lot more of what you want.
Yeah, that's kind of an interesting angle.
That's different, I think, than the modern aspect of where
everyone's telling parents in general how to like what's good
and what's bad and what you're allowed to do, what you're not
allowed to do. And I, I hate that.
I like the open mindedness of like what we talked about
earlier where every situation is different, but I like this idea
of letting them complain. And I think if anyone has space
to speak their mind, at least let them speak their mind,
whether you do it or not. OK, whatever.
And I know we have complainers that we hear from all the time,
and that's fine. We let those moms complain, so
say your complaints, but am I going to do it?
It's my home. I get to decide the other day.
Wrap it up for us real quick. Let us know where listeners can
find you. We might need to bring you into
the membership for like AQ and a sometime or something, but
outside of stepmom side chats where can everyone find you?
No, I appreciate and I would I'd love to come in and share with
your group. Right now I am just launching
like you know, we're recording on the 23rd.
It'll launch February 27th, a grounded Co parent university.
I think by the time this airs, the doors will be closed for
March and it'll open at the end of March.
But that's going to be a place for any Co parent whatsoever to
come and learn like emotional regulation, grounding
techniques. So if you visit my page on
Instagram at JC Gibbons, you'll find the link to sign up for the
wait list. I want you guys in there because
it really is all about how to handle these situations in a
grounded way. It's not about getting more
control or winning or beating a narcissist.
It's more so like, how can I feel good about the life that
I'm living while being a Co parent?
So find me on Instagram, find me in the grounded Co parent
university and that's the best place.
Thank you. Thank you so much for joining
us. This was therapeutic for myself
on so many levels. You know, I think we're always
all learning and there's something we can all take away
from it. So thank you so much for your
insight and your time today. We really appreciate it.
I'll see you guys next week. Bye.
That's it for this week on Stepmom Side Chats.
We're Alyssa and Becca, your stepmom besties before you go.
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We'll chat with you all soon.