Oh great, she logs on and straight away here comes the
fucking police car. It's casualty central.
Anyway, let's crack on. OK, I don't know if I'm getting
a little sick, but I'm going to drink the pain away.
That should be the tagline. Hello and and welcome to Drinks
at the Bar, a podcast where we breakthrough the 4th wall and
discuss everything about dance and the theatre industry.
My name is Paul James Rooney, a dancer, choreographer and dance
teacher based in Copenhagen and I am your host of Drinks at the
Bar. Today I'm joined by not only my
regular guest host, but by my best friend Damien Lee Sterk.
Hi everybody, I'm Damien Lee Sterk, director of the Dancers
Studio London, classical ballet teacher and actor with the Royal
Ballet. Here we will discuss everything
from hearing backstage stories, touring shenanigans, to deeper
issues like body image training, the reality of being a freelance
dancer, and much more. With guest professionals, we are
here to share our knowledge, experience, and help you with
any questions or problems you may have about dance and
navigating the dance world. Hello, Denise.
Hi darling, how are you? I'm good, thank you.
I've been in rehearsals with James all afternoon.
So we've started already workshopping ideas and creating
things for My Fair Lady, which premieres in the very beginning
of February. So James and I are in the studio
creating stuff before. So we're, you know, prepared and
ready for when everybody starts rehearsals in December.
Yeah. Wonderful, and how lovely to be
in the studio with a friend. Yeah, it's really lovely.
No, it's not working, but it's nice to just have that support,
isn't it? It's lovely.
It's lovely and it's, you know, we, you know, you bounce off
each other like, you know, like I do with you and stuff.
So you can giggle and you can also hard work at the same time.
It's just a nice like we said before about studios need to be
like a safe place. So it is that kind of feeling.
It's a really, you know, safe space where you can have a bad
idea and it's completely fine. And we'll both giggle or yeah,
it's it's great. Really excited.
I'm really happy to be back in the studio.
So yeah, how about you? Well, we had an amazing week at
the Limbury with the Ossipova performances like I, which I
will cherish for cherish for the rest of my life and also
finished the last two weeks of tour with English National
Ballet. So everything's kind of all
wrapped up. I just have a couple of
workshops of my own with the dancers Studio London and and
then it's time to get into the festive spirit and relax.
Try not to eat too many quality St.
That will happen. Not the top is because my mum
won't let me and just enjoy Christmas without feeling too
guilty about, you know, having some time off and and and
stuffing my face. Oh fantastic.
The usual. Well cheers love.
I have myself a lovely Tanqueray London dry gin and tonic.
Oh lovely, I have a vodka tonic today.
Purely medicinal. Oh, what a lovely little.
I thought, I thought, why not? Why not?
I have a late start tomorrow and this is purely just to, you
know, relieve the muscles. Well, cheers love.
I was swallowing. Cheers.
All right. RESPECT.
Today we're talking about respect and we've talked about
it. You know, it's come into
different subjects that we've spoken about throughout the, you
know, the season and on different episodes we've spoken
about, you know, especially back in the day, there wasn't much
respect from the bosses or the artistic team towards dancers
and all of that and respect had to be earned and all this kind
of stuff. But I'd like to just, I think we
should just Crouch a subject that I mean, it's a little bit
delicate, but I think it needs to be spoken about.
And I'm not pretending to be a good, you know, the best person
in the world. I am also, I have made mistakes
in my past. I am not a St.
I'm not the Dalai Lama, but I'm trying to lead a better life.
I'm trying to be a better person.
And I thought that was something that we can discuss about
together. I think we should have a
discussion about respect within our industry and with within our
bubble and where we work. I mean, the first thing I can
think of off the top of my head is respecting everybody who
works in the building. I think it's very easy, and
we've briefly spoken about this before.
It's very easy for especially very young dancers, but also
some seasoned dancers as well to think they are the queen bee of
the building and they are the most important thing in the
world and not have respect for, let's just say the cleaner who's
cleaning the corridor or cleaning the studio when their
said ballet dancer is walking through.
I, we all deserve respect. And you know, I feel that I'm
very good at that, especially nowadays.
I'm not saying that I always have been.
It's something that we learn in life.
I think I'm very good at walking in and saying hello to
everybody, whether it is a dresser, whether it's a cleaner,
whether it is a stage manager, whether it is well the stage
manager is my boyfriend, whether it is my dance partner, whatever
it is, I think a dance studio or a theatre or a dance company I
think is already can already feel a little bit strange and
alien to someone working in that building that is not a dancer.
So that said cleaner who might be new working in that building
already, probably feels a little bit already feels a little bit
not at home first. It's a new place of work.
But like being surrounded by dancers, walking around wearing
next to nothing, being all touchy, feeling with each other
and having their bubble that they are in is very easy to feel
not less than or treated less than.
And I think it's very important that we are aware of how we are
treating people. Let's just talk about, for
example, cleaners, technicians, dresses, you know, non
performers at work. Yeah, 100%.
I mean, and it's interesting that you use the role of a
cleaner as an example because Rainn and I were in the Opera
House only a few days ago and we'd finished a studio rehearsal
and we happened to pass one of the cleaners near the dressing
room. And so I just said, hey, how are
you? And Rain picked up on it and
mentioned, he said, oh, I'm so glad that you said hi to the
cleaner. We'd never met this cleaner
before, but I was like, of course.
Like, why wouldn't I? You know, Because it's that
feeling that you get. Imagine how intimidating it is
for a non dancer like you've just mentioned.
Within an environment where we are, we are loud and we're
comfortable within our own studios setting and we are very
tactile and in a group scenario that can be very intimidating.
And if your role is not dancing or part of the artistic team, it
doesn't mean that your your role is any less than the dancer or
the director for that matter. We all have different roles to
play and they do require different levels of skill and
responsibility. But I think as we get older we
appreciate just how much how powerful kindness is.
When you're younger, you tend to be a little bit more flippant
and self absorbed. We all go through that and
certainly within a dance company, you've got so many
things to think about and your focus is on learning the
repertoire, putting on a fantastic show, making sure
everything is right. You don't necessarily have the
capacity, in all fairness, to be thinking about other people in
your peripheral vision. So, you know, it's very easy to
walk past a cleaner or a technician or whoever's running
the cafe that morning and, and not even say good morning.
But I think, you know, with experience and certainly you and
I have moved into more leading directing roles.
Yeah, the other side of the table.
Yeah, you, I think you, you certainly learn to appreciate
honing in those skills because the people, everybody, the
people around you, they all matter.
And it doesn't. And you've heard me say this a
million times. It's not about pandering to the
hierarchy, it's respect. It all boils down to respect.
And actually for those people that have been within that
environment longer, you do feel more comfortable.
We've all experienced it. It feels like a second home.
But I really feel like, you know, seniority brings
responsibility rather than superiority.
And it's very easy to get carried away with yourself and
feel like you are superior because unfortunately, and
particularly in the classical ballet world, we're still very
much absorbed with this hierarchy of we'll treat you
better the higher you are. I think actually that translates
into most professions, but certainly within the ballet
world and. I think so, yeah.
It's a a very slippery slope because we should all be treated
with kindness and fairness. But I think that does take a
level of maturity and experience to arrive at that point where
saying hello to the cleaner is just as important as saying
hello to the director if you happened to be passing them in
the corridor. Because why wouldn't you if
you're a decent human being? And and that's it, you know, as
soon as you might feel that you're the most important person
in that rehearsal room or in that ballet or in that
production or whatever it is. But again, at the end of the
day, it's just a ballet. It's just a production.
Life is what we're actually doing.
And that cleaner coming to work, you find that cleaner is not
doing a solo in your show or make is not in your production
or whatever it is. That cleaner is still a human
and that cleaner is still working with you and is still in
your life and deserves. Respect.
Yeah. It's a contribution, isn't it,
to the bigger picture. And it what it takes 3 seconds
to say good morning. Yeah.
And it really does make a difference.
It really does make a difference and I love what you've mentioned
in a previous episode. Which seems which sounds like a
Danish tradition. Where is it when you're leaving?
Oh yeah. Takfri Afton.
Yeah. Thank you for the evening.
Yeah, I love that. I love that.
I think it's really, really important.
And it's just common decency, isn't it?
I mean, but also we can be, we can be a little bit unaware of
missing those moments, you know? And I, I believe I have
mentioned this story in the past, but we're now on episode
3042. So it's hard, it's hard to keep
track of all the episodes, but there was one occasion where I
was assisting the make up, the head of make up on an on an
international tour of a production.
Now, some of the dancers within that production also knew me as
a performer and which is important to the setup of the
story. And I remember we'd arrived
early because we were setting up the make up room and making sure
everything was ready. And a dancer walked in and I was
one of the first people that she saw.
And the first thing came that came out of her mouth wasn't,
oh, hi, morning. How you know, how was breakfast
all, you know, whatever it was, there's no bin in my dressing
room. And it sent me over the edge.
It sent me over the edge because I was, I was thinking why is she
asking me? Like, I'm not even the person
that would sort that out for you.
So what? Because she was so oblivious to
kind of, you know, the roles that we all play within that
environment, that because I was a non dancer in that moment, it
didn't matter what I'm a person. And I did, I learnt, you know, a
big lesson in that moment. Be of awareness because it's
very easily done. And I don't think, you know, she
meant anything by it really. And I don't believe, I like to
believe it wasn't an, a personal attack, you know, to say, well,
you're not dancing in this production.
You're, you're part of the other side.
But I don't think it was not calculated at all.
But it did make me realise that we have to be very careful with
how we prevent ourselves within that industry because we're all
contributing. But also the departments,
they're very strict in what they are responsible for.
There's no overflow. And I think if you're gracious,
you would help. You know, I think I said
something like, I have no idea, it's my first day as it is
yours, but maybe I can ask so and so to help.
Or why don't you go and ask the company manager?
You know why? Don't you bugger off.
Why don't you take this paper cup and fill your boots?
But it it's, it's awareness. And I think when you see in
someone else, it's a great thing to mirror that and ask yourself,
oh gosh, have I been guilty of that?
Because I'm pretty certain we all have.
Exactly. And that's, I mean, you know,
I'm not sitting here on my high horse saying that I've never
been disrespectful or I've never, you know, whatever
exactly what you said. It is something that comes with
age and something that comes with maturity.
It really does. And that's why, you know, one of
the reasons why I want to discuss it on the podcast is to
hopefully instill instill something that we've learned
later in life to people that are just graduating so you don't
make the same mistakes that I did or, you know, whatever.
And for me saying saying hello to keep on saying cleaner, but
whoever saying hello to someone who works in the building that I
don't usually see. And then someone saying hello
back and that little smile that you get really does have a
chemical reaction in your body and make you feel better.
Like not saying that it's a selfless good deed because
you're doing it to make yourself feel better for someone smiling
at you. But like it is, you know, we're
humans, we we love interaction with people and just having
that, you know, positive start to a day, you giving something
out positive to the world and them giving something positive
back is just great for your day and your well-being.
And it costs nothing, right? You know, I mean, good manners.
It costs absolutely nothing. And I think if you can make
somebody feel recognized, they're worth, you know, for the
job that they're facilitating in three seconds through a sincere
morning or good afternoon or, you know, how are you?
I think it really is. It's priceless.
And I would hope that I would receive the same, you know, and
am I, whether you're a stranger or I've seen you for the 10th
time that week, it's still. Every day of my life for the
past 10 years. At breakfast, in the dressing
room, on stage in the green room.
Hotel bar, breakfast club. Another club, another club, but
I think you know, if you're, if you're the type of person you
know, believe it or not, I am not.
You might laugh at this, but I'm not a confrontational person.
Same. I'm not either.
Only when pressed. No, I don't.
I don't. I don't search for that
interaction. Oh, I hate conflict.
Child of divorce here cannot. I don't like it, I don't enjoy
it and much rather things run smoothly.
But sometimes, you know, in certain cases you do need to be
able to voice how you're feeling.
So it can be misconstrued if you're if you're, if you feel
like you're the type of person that doesn't even feel
comfortable saying hello to a complete stranger or the cleaner
or the persons running the cafe or the person who you see at
staged or five to seven times a week because you're not
comfortable with that interaction.
I think that's OK. But my advice would be try and
hone those skills where you can open yourself up to at least
engage and make eye contact with the people around you.
But if you're the type of person that's selectively, you know, if
you're that, if you find that you're the type of person that
gets a kick out of, you know, living in that hierarchical
world, then you need to have a conversation with yourself.
Because actually making other people feel uncomfortable or
less than is all about the person and the person's
behaviour and not about the recipient of that, of that
behaviour. So I think, you know, it's good
to get a grasp of how you're presenting yourself within the
workplace, but it's also, it's also great to have an
understanding of how you're presenting yourself in life.
And we've spoken about this, you know, before.
Yes. That takes growth.
And I'm pretty certain that when I was a young dancer, I was so
involved in my life as a dancer that I probably didn't make eye
contact with the person serving me in the cafe or signing in a
stage door. But I think awareness and
culpability and growth is what we're trying to instill with our
with our audiences. Yeah, Nolessness.
Something that I've experienced as a teacher and lots of the
time I think is not done through trying to be rude, but kind of
jumping back to what we just spoke about.
Like actions do matter and sometimes you might not be doing
something on purpose. You might be in your own world,
but how you come across to people really makes a
difference. And for me, for example, it
happened the other day. I was teaching and it was a
short routine we did across the floor and I said every group
does it twice, right? So we do it twice and then the
next group starts and the next group starts and so on.
And it happened a couple of times in different groups.
One of the dancers fucked up or fell off the pirouette or
whatever it was, and then just kind of walked across the rooms
like shoulders forward a bit. I know it's not a visual medium.
This is a podcast, kind of like teenager E, like, you know, that
kind of slumped over kind of thing.
And I let everybody go across the room and then I stopped the
music and I was like, guys, you need to realize that your body
language is really rude towards me.
I know you're, you're, I'm guessing it's nothing towards
me. I'm because I'm an amazing
teacher. No, I'm, I'm guessing it's not
me. I'm guessing you're frustrated
with yourself that you made a mistake or you're frustrated
that you fell over or you're frustrated that you couldn't
pick up the exercise, whatever it is.
But when I say we do, each group does it twice and you choose not
to do it twice and you choose to just walk across the studio
slumped over like a kind of angry teenager that kind of
says, excuse my language, fuck off to the teacher.
You know what I mean? It really does feel like you're
walking across the room and sticking your middle finger up
at me like because you're on purpose, choosing not to do what
I said. And and then obviously I, you
know, I said this to the class and they straight to like, Oh,
no, it's not what I meant to say.
And I give you the benefit of the doubt and I already know
that that's not what you meant, but that's what comes across.
So my point being is that you have to be really aware of your
actions and your how you're coming across because it can be
very easily misconstrued. You can't live in your little
world and only be thinking about what you're doing because what
you're portraying and what you're conveying with your body
language might be coming across very, very, very rude.
And in that situation, it was a proper, it was a proper time
that I could actually, you know, use an example in real time and
use it as a, as a learning tool and be like, guys right here.
This is this is not good. It's rude to me.
It's rude to your fellow dancers.
Be aware of how you're you're acting in a classroom.
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?
You know, the way we may present ourself in a class because I can
imagine, you know, and as a professional dancer, you're so
wrapped up in doing the exercise, you're just focusing
on yourself. And quite rightly so.
If you're a considerate dancer, you'd also be checking your
peripheral vision and not getting in anybody's way.
But but in that moment, as a dancer in a class, the
responsibility is to get through the exercise right.
They the dancer doesn't even have time to consider why you've
asked for each group to go twice along the room.
It's not just for, you know, shits and giggles.
It's so they get 2 attempts at doing the exercise because you.
Didn't make the exercise long enough.
OK, I want to say this twice because.
Oh, I thought it was longer than it was.
Do it twice. Oh my God.
I made it four times and then
face the back wall and do it without the mirrors.
No, you know they don't have the capacity to.
Well, they also can't read your mind.
They don't understand why you've asked to see it twice.
So again, it's not they're not attacking you or disrespecting
you rather because they've only done it once.
But the way they presented themselves has kind of cocked up
your flow of the reason why I've asked for it twice is so you can
have two attempts at it, get it into your bodies before we go to
the other side. And it again.
It all boils down to awareness and and and etiquette.
But something so simple to read as I'm frustrated.
Therefore I can't even consider doing it a second time.
It's just habit and practice and reshuffling how we react to
those situations. So the next time, hopefully
after that conversation that you had with your group of dancers,
that person may think, oh, I'm not going to I'm, I am going to
do it twice. I remember that conversation.
I'm going to have another attempt because hopefully the
second attempt will be productive and they'll be like,
Oh my God, and feel much better about themselves rather than
quitting. They can't.
And also as I start to spiral, you know, they can't.
They also you can't quit on stage.
You can't just walk off if something goes wrong.
So why would you do it in a studio scenario?
So it's just about, you know, awareness.
Yeah, because that's also what we're teaching in the in the
classroom as well. And I say it many times in the
classroom, you know, you have these teachers, back in the day,
you had these teachers who would just go finish, finish, finish.
And you they'd never say why. They'll just say finish, you
know, OK, Danish, Swedish, Icelandic.
No, they'll be like screaming, like hold the ending of the
pirouette or whatever it is. Don't just walk across the room.
And I, I know what the reason is.
But I, it's 2025. I tell my students why, You
know, I'm saying you have to make that double pirouette work
because if there's an audience watching this, you would have to
make that work. You wouldn't, like you just
said, walk off during a show. You have to make the dance, the
pirouette, the the routine, whatever is, you have to make it
work. We're spiralling.
Yeah, we're spiralling. We've now gone into the realm of
teaching, but if we if we're able, if we're able to bring it
back, we are discussing respect. And so we're just we just happen
to be kind of sidebarring into a category of respect within the
studio between the the student and the teacher.
But it still boils, excuse me, still boils down to to respect
and awareness. And this isn't the first time
I've said awareness 300 times in an but it's relevant.
So you. Know it's relevant.
According to us. No, but you know, body language
and everything really really does matter.
And it matters also at work, you know, it's not just you know,
between a, a teacher and A and a student.
It also is towards your colleagues.
Like how you are coming across really can change somebody's day
or experience of, you know, the, the working hours or whatever it
may be. So as we just mentioned, every
job within that company, that production is important, every
company is important, every size production is important.
I hope things are different nowadays, but I know way back
when some of the larger schools that are maybe feeder schools
into specific companies train their students to have a job.
Their aim is to have a job in that specific company and that
is great. That is, you know, that is why
that school is there. You know, it's given funding by
the government to create dancers for a said company.
However, it does instill in, it does instill a, a feeling in
some of these students or dancers that if I'm not in that
company, other companies are less than your smaller touring
companies, your Vienna Festival ballets, your Tivoli.
What I've worked out, I've experienced it myself from
dancers in bigger companies that, oh, you're not in.
Insert big company name here. I am less than I am.
Yeah, it's a nothing job. It's not a proper dance company.
And I'm sure I had that feeling when I was at ballet school and
had that slight feeling towards smaller companies.
I thought, oh, I want to be in this.
Everything else is crap, but I will say that I feel very lucky
to have learned straight away that this is the wrong mindset
because my best friend became a dancer at Disneyland Paris and
straight away I learnt, you know, hands on that that's just
as hard a job, just as good a just as hard a job to try and
get just, you know, any job in this industry is hard to get.
So you know what I mean? Every single job is deserves
respect, and just because you're in big ballet company, that
person in Disneyland Paris being a dancer is not less than you,
and that job is not less than you.
Also, that person working at Disneyland Paris might not even
want to be in a big ballet company.
Just because you were in that big ballet company and you
wanted to be there doesn't mean that everybody else does, and
also doesn't mean that their job or their small company or their
whatever do you want to describe that job is less than yours just
because it's not a big prestigious name.
And I think, I mean I feel that that is learnt behaviour and
that that's instilled in US during our training through
generations within the industry. And what I mean by that is we're
conditioned to think if you don't make it into the top
company, then you have a lesser worth, even though you're still
dancing because that's just the way we've been conditioned.
And I think the, the point that you're making or certainly that
I'm, I'm taking from what you've just said is that every dancer
matters. And it shouldn't matter which
company you're with or which production or whether it's a
touring show, a resident company, a huge national company
or a very intimate 6 dancer 3 performance scenario.
But that also has to come from our from our own mental health
and self respect, I think. And again, as you get older,
hopefully you've learnt those life lessons where you do learn
to respect your worth. And I think when you respect
yourself, it doesn't, it doesn't.
And it shouldn't matter how other people perceive you.
Now that's easier said than done, you know, certainly when I
left my performing career really without an unofficial
retirement, I never said I'm never dancing again.
I just had this transition of, well, really performing into and
teaching and then predominantly teaching, stepping back onto the
stage from time to time, but then into acting.
And when I entered that world of ballet, and this is very
specific to ballet acting, I returned to a world that was so
familiar to me but completely different at the same time.
And it took me, it took me a long time to settle with myself
that it was OK, Like I'm OK, It's OK to be a part of this
world but not dancing. But in the beginning, I felt
guilt. And I suppose I felt guilt
because I was worried that people wouldn't respect me for
acting in a ballet company when I should have been dancing.
But that's on me because my interpretation was, well, if
you're not dancing in a ballet company, then is it?
You know what? What are you doing?
You know? Yeah.
And I had to retrain my brain to go hang on a second.
We all contribute to this performance.
And now I can separate. And also I remind myself that I
danced professionally for 25 years.
It's like it's OK, you know? And I, I now perceive this as a
reward, as a treat. You know, I get to be on stage
surrounded by phenomenal dancers.
I'm still contributing in, in this way, but I'm not dancing.
But that's OK. But it took me a long time.
I really had a hard time finding myself, you know, standing on
stage, not dancing, thinking, Oh my God, all these people are
going to be thinking, well, he's classically trained, so why is
he not dancing? But that, that was entirely on
me. That's not to say that there are
people that had those thoughts, but that's, again, that's
through their understanding or lack of, you know, lack of
maturity and understanding, you know, the evolution of the
dancer. You can't dance forever.
But I certainly had to work on myself to to find the balance of
respect for myself. But that was from what was
instilled in me as a dancer, that if you're not aiming for
the best and at the very, very top, then what's your worth?
And also, I mean, you saying that you had to find it within
yourself because you thought people would be looking at you
and thinking that way, probably because you, well, you know,
there's not specific people I'm talking about, but you know that
dancers in the industry and the scores do teach you to think
like that. You do you.
And again, like we said about, you know, walking through the
pseudo and not saying hello to the cleaner because you're so
focused on yourself. Like you also know that those
dancers are thinking about themselves and think about their
performance and all of that. And there is that fine line of
working on yourself and being professional and concentrating
so much on what you're doing that it becomes you are the most
important person in the room and it's not your job is important
and what you are giving is important, but it's not more
important than somebody else. And it's that balancing act of
making it important for you, but it's not more important than
somebody else. Yes, yeah, you've hit the nail
on the head there. Because the reality is that, you
know, as we've, we've mentioned, when, when you're working on a
production, you don't really have the capacity to think about
anything else. So the reality is, you know, the
people in that room that I was so concerned were looking at me
thinking, Oh my God, like, what is he doing?
He's just walking around acting. He's not even dancing.
They, they weren't. The reality is they won't even.
They don't have the capacity to even think about me because
they're so busy and consumed by what they're having to do.
However, those dancers not saying hello to you gives you, I
mean, if that happened, give that gives you also an
impression that dancer being so self absorbed or so concentrated
on what they're doing that it takes away their ability to even
say hello to the actor who's also in the scene with them.
That's when it's dangerous and that's when it's rude.
And that's when that's what we need to change.
Yes, yes. Exactly.
That because it's exactly what we've been saying throughout
every single episode, is that it should be important to you,
dancing should be important to you, and you should really work
hard. And it should be.
Yeah, it should be important, but it shouldn't consume.
No, and I think just one other point I'd like to make is that,
you know, more recently working with a different company in in
the same capacity, but in unfamiliar territory.
Again, for me, I was a little bit concerned that the senior
management didn't even acknowledge the actors within
the studio. And I was a little because to me
just, and again, it's, it's, it's hard to balance because at
the same time I'm thinking, listen, they've got so many
things that they need to accomplish within a short amount
of time. They don't have the capacity to
think about every single person. Of course not.
But I would imagine that if there are new people in your
usual environment, you might consider at least saying hello
and welcome and welcome. And for me, I just felt like I
can get on with it. I know what to do.
I've been in this business a long time.
I'm going to make your life or lives easier by just getting on
with what I know I need to do. But if only one out of five of
you has said hello and welcome, it tells me.
It almost tells me everything I need to know about that person's
character. I think without going down a
rabbit hole of old school people, there is there is that
feeling sometimes that the old school people have probably been
told at some point in the modern day that you need to start being
more friendly, more approachable, more whatever.
And that thought is a or then I have to do a big thing about it.
No simple thing right there. We wouldn't have to take hours
out of our day to be like, this is Damien.
Damien, where are you from? Say hello to everybody.
Literally you standing in the studio and being like, hey
everyone, just before we start, we've got 6 new actors joining
us today. Welcome guys.
That's it. That's all, that's all you need
to do and it makes a difference. Just like we saying, you know,
it's not even high to the cleaner sometimes.
It's just a smile, like, hey, guys, welcome.
If you need any help, just let us know across the studio.
That's it. That's all you need to do.
It's just welcoming. It's just warming.
It's just, yeah, just respect. Yeah, and I think we know we're
all guilty of it. Like we've mentioned, no matter,
no matter what role you're playing, either on stage or on
the other side of the stage, we can all be kind of locked in and
not be aware of how our behaviour makes other people
feel. And I think that, you know, the
take away is just open your eyes a little bit within the
environment around you and and let's all just get along
because, you know, being in a company or a part of a
production is, is a collaboration.
And again, I've said a million times, it's not about that.
I don't respect you more because you have a senior role.
I respect you if you can show the same amount of respect to
every single person that you that you meet.
And that does take some life lessons and some and some time
in the biz. It does.
Yes it does. I need to lay off the vodka
because it's like a truth serum. One thing I'll just say here as
well, you know, jumping on the body language train and how
others perceive you. I have an example that happened
and I was in a production where we were trying out the floor for
a production and we all came down from our rehearsal to get
on stage to try the floor. And one of the dancers stood
there and said it's not going to work.
It's too slippery and all of us are trying stuff out.
And I went over and I said, would you like to try such and
such a section? Because I danced with you.
Let's try out. And they said I was down here
earlier. I've tried it already.
It's not not going to work. And I took them aside and I
said, I know what you mean. And you came down here earlier.
But it's showing. It's your, your body language
and your actions. You've got to show firstly the
other dancers, but you've also got to show the stage manager,
the production leader, the choreographer that you were
trying. The floor you, it's again, it's
you standing there with your hands on your hips saying it's
not going to work is rude and disrespectful to everybody.
We all come down here to try this floor to get the best, you
know, to solve the problem. Whether you've tried it or not
before is not the point because what you're doing right now is
coming across disrespectful. So you also have to, you know,
in that situation, it's play the game, try the floor again.
Try the floor again. Exactly.
Play the and play with. No.
There are certain rules and regulations and and and
behavioural patterns. Like you said, you need to be
able to show the department that's taking care of the floor.
It's just you, just it's, it's communication, isn't it
communication also how you deliver that communication with
respect, please. Exactly.
You know, all of us know this floor is bad.
All of us, you know, but we're showing that we're trying out of
respect. They have, they have done
something to the floor. It is now up to for you is out
now your job to respect their work and see if they have solved
the problem. Yeah, you know what I mean?
Yeah. You know, and I think we are in
show business and sometimes we are expected to lean into this
kind of diva behaviour. But there's a time and a place.
And I think if for example, you know, that person has been
allowed to get away with that kind of delivery or interaction,
then he or she hasn't learnt, you know, any, any new behaviour
of how to interact with the people within her, her
profession or his profession, right.
So, but you also back to responsibility and aware
self-awareness and, and read the room and read the scenario and
just be a little bit more present and don't be the one
who's causing all the fuss when you know, life's too short.
And like you said at the beginning of this episode, it's
it's Just Dance. Yes, we love it.
Yes, we respect it. Yes, most of us live for it.
However, there are bigger things going on and we just need to
have a bit more of, of of a balance and consideration, don't
we? Yeah.
And I think what you said there about the diva thing, I think
it's good to be aware of people are expecting you to be a diva.
So try and not be that. Try and prove the dress of the
wig department and the stage manager, the techie, the whoever
in the theatre that actually, just like many things from
ballet school, we've been taught wrong.
You've also been taught wrong. We are not Divas, we are not all
like this. We are actually human beings.
All we're doing is dancing and at the end of the day we're all
going to go to the pub together and we're all the same.
We're all human. Like, you know, it's also
teaching the other departments that aren't the performers, that
actually we're not Divas, we are also human and can be, can be
nice. Amen.
However, no, I'm joking. I will say that you know exactly
what you said about having to teach yourself acceptance to for
being an actor in a ballet company and not being a dancer.
It is a lot of retraining your own brain because I found myself
trying to talk up jobs that I've done, like like for example,
let's just say Tivoli, for example, you know, it's a small
ballet company that no one has ever heard of outside of
Scandinavia or whatever. It's become more and more well
known the past couple of years, which is great.
I remember when I would write it on my CV or when someone would
ask me what I was doing, instead of just saying, oh, I'm at a
ballet company in Tivoli Gardens in Copenhagen.
I would find myself like saying, oh, I'm at Tivoli Ballet Theatre
where you know, we do Bonneville.
We do, you know, trying to make the company, trying to upsell
the company instead of some, you know, battling the self demons
of myself like, oh, you're in a small ballet company pool.
You didn't make it or whatever. It's not a proper ballet
company. So it is a lot of self respect
like you said as well for me when you know, in those jobs.
I remember I took it off my CV straight away when I did the job
because I was embarrassed about it.
There's a company called Spirit. They did Spirit of the Dance,
which was kind of like a touring copycat, sorry of her
Riverdance. And then they also had one
called Spirit of Broadway. And I did Spirit of Broadway.
It's Auk tour, basically performance, doing a mega mix of
musicals. And I didn't tell anybody that I
did it. I took off my CV straight away
because it was beneath me in my head and it's so toxic and wrong
for me to have thought that because I learnt a lot from that
job. It was my first touring job.
It taught me how to tour. It taught me how to get on with
the show when someone's injured and you know, all that kind of
stuff that we spoke about before about, you know, joining a, a
company when you're young. And I just wish I didn't have
that self deprecating or, you know, feel that I was less than
because I was in this air quotes shitty little job that wasn't a
proper musical or a proper dance company.
It was some touring, touring cheesy show that I thought was
less than. So it's given my I, I wasn't
respecting myself. Yeah, I mean, that's easily
done. It's very easily done because
we're we're so conditioned to feel that way.
But I think, you know, if there's any advice that I can
give younger, the younger dancers now is to embrace you
can acknowledge your worth. And if you've chosen a job,
whether it's because it was the only job that was available and
you had to take it to keep the money coming in to pay your
rent, or whether it was a really selective career choice.
The respect in the way you present yourself.
Because if you say to someone, oh, I'm doing, yeah, I'm, I'm
not doing that much. I'm just doing like a it's a 10
week UK tour, but it's with a really small company and people.
You're then fueling the stigma that comes behind not working
for a mega mega, what one may consider a Class A company.
But if you say, Oh my God, I'm doing an amazing tour with
whatever insert tall name here and you deliver it in a way that
shows that you're proud of your work and what you're doing.
And sometimes you may not feel proud about taking that job.
But if you present it in a way you then you extinguish the
power that the other person or the other people that may relish
the fact that you're not doing as well.
Because let's face it, we've all been in that scenario where
we've bumped into somebody, you know, at Pineapple Dance Studios
or in an open class. And you know, one of the first
questions is, oh, So what are you doing at, you know, what are
you doing right now? What you know, and you feel like
under so much pressure if you're not working, I think we just
have to be feeling a bit more empowered.
And that that comes from working on ourselves and learning to
respect ourselves and, and also respecting other people, you
know, because we can't really control other people's
behaviour, but we can certainly take responsibility for how we,
you know, deliver our interactions with, with people
within our business, our vocation, you know, because
friends wouldn't do that to one another.
It's more those that you kind of see around town or, or you know,
city to city, you know, that are interested, but they're only
really interested because they're probably feeling settled
and they have something at the moment.
So they're quite willing to ask you.
Oh, So what are you doing right now?
Yeah, because they want you to ask them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they can turn around to be
like, Oh, well, I'm the face of Paul Mitchell's new No More
Tears shampoo. Well, that was a body double for
Catherine Zeta Jones, and in drama beat that.
So I really do hope that we are making a difference.
You're. Not making a difference right
now. So I really do hope that that
makes a difference. If you are listening then Please
remember to smile and say good morning to the cleaner you walk
past in the theatre every morning and then I'll be happy.
Totally, and like we've said many, many times, it takes a
village and the real show is backstage, so give everyone the
respect they deserve. Even Jessica.
Not Jessica. Depends how I'm feeling up on
that particular day. Well, Denise, I respect you and
love you lots. And I respect you, and I love
you lots too. Right.
Take care sweetheart, and thank you everybody for listening to
another episode of Tricks at the Bar.
Bye everybody, Bye.