Hello and welcome to Drinks at the Bar, a podcast where we
break through the 4th wall and discuss everything about dance
and the theater industry. My name is Paul James Rooney, a
dancer, choreographer and dance teacher based in Copenhagen, and
I am your host of Drinks at the Bar.
And today, I'm joined by my regular guest host, model,
activist, actress Monica Bellucci.
Hi everybody, I'm Monica Bellucci, director of the Dancer
Studio London, classical ballet teacher and actor with the Royal
Ballet. Here we will discuss everything
from hearing backstage stories, touring shenanigans, to deeper
issues like body image training, the reality of being a freelance
dancer, and the face of Cartier. With Guest Professionals We are
with guest professionals. We are here to share our
knowledge, experience, and help you with any questions or
problems you may have about dance and navigating the dance
world. I really didn't know that Monica
Bellucci was the muse and ambassador of Carte in 2000.
And 20. And literally was Googling her
today I was saying oh OK, that's what she's.
Done. Fair enough.
Well done. How are you?
I am exhausted, OK? I've literally had 27 minutes of
sleep. Last night Alan and I were
invited to the Bafta's after party sponsored by Netflix,
which was amazing, but it was a very late night.
Well, actually it wasn't that late.
We did get home at a reasonable hour, but then Alan had to leave
for the airport very, very early this morning.
So we're just very, very tired. I'm not as tired as my husband
because he's had to go straight into action.
But it was a lot of fun. But yeah, I am paying for it
today. How are you?
I'm fine. I wanted to hear more.
So what was the what was the party?
Tell me about the party. OK, so first of all, the call
time for the party was 9:30 PM, which is far too late for a lady
of my age. Oh, you mentioned actually you
might have been doing some makeup.
Did you did? Did you end up saying yes to the
job or? I I made myself available to
assist my fabulous celebrity makeup artist friend Neil Young,
who was amazing, just absolute amazing.
I sometimes if he needs me, we'll assist him, which is a
great joy. It means I can dip my toe back
into the makeup world. Amazing.
But he all of his bookings didn't, he didn't basically need
a second pair of hands for this booking, which actually turned
out quite well because it just meant I could relax and on
Sunday and, you know, Alan and I could enjoy the day and we went
for a Sunday roast and spend some time together and then we
could relax and then get ready for this party last night.
So it was amazing. It was really, really amazing.
It was just a little bit late for me.
I like to be tucked up with Netflix and, you know, just
relaxing. But it was sometimes you have to
push yourself, don't you? And go out and, you know,
listen, it was a really wonderful party.
At one point, Kate Hudson was stood behind Alan at the bar.
I spent most of the evening talking to an amazing actress
called Kush Jumbo. She's fantastic.
She was in The Good Wife, which I think you may have seen.
She's. Oh, I like the good.
One, she's the short hair. She's actually British, but she
plays within a moment. Oh, she's in The Good Wife and I
think she is she even in the good fight as.
Well, I think so the. Follow up from that and I think
I saw her in something in Take one of those miniseries.
In England. Nine episode, yeah.
Exactly. Yeah, me too.
So that was that was a real thrill.
So she was lovely. So a little bit of celeb
spotting and it was very nice to stop that, to talk to stork
stork to stalk Kush. So that was brilliant.
Yeah. So I had a fabulous night.
It was a nice little treat. And I am absolutely exhausted
today, but you know. Well, I was on for yet another
track as Swing in Sound of Music.
Life is full of surprises. So far we have done.
We've done two weeks of shows. I have not been on twice.
Wow. Yeah, so there's been a grand
total of two shows that haven't needed a swing, which is kind of
incredible. But you know, it's kind of, you
know, it's that time of year where everybody's sick.
And in a musical it is slightly different from a dance, dance
company because, you know, yes, if you if you've got the flu,
you can't really go on or whatever.
But like, if you've got a, a sore throat, you can still do
Martha Graham's Lamentation or Sugar Plum Fairy.
You can't really sing Defying Gravity, you know, with
laryngitis. So, you know, there is that that
difference in the musical theatre industry that people do
go off when a dancer wouldn't go off, but that's because they
have to sing and you can't really sing if you have no
voice. So that, well, my, my week has
not been the most exciting in the world, but day off today.
So that's lovely. Yeah, yeah, but they've kept you
very busy. Very busy.
Because it's such an early moment in the run and you've
been on more than some of the actual cast for a job that you
didn't sign up for, really. Completely.
You know, so it's you've really, they've really utilised you to
the Max within like the first week.
Well, exactly. And also I when they offered me
the roll of swing, I thought, yeah, of course that'd be nice.
You know, a little bit of. Pop in and out.
Yeah, but also like a little bit of drama being thrown in and
having to work on the fly and all of that kind of stuff.
That kind of excites me a little bit.
But I also thought, you know, oh, OK, yes, I'll say yes to
this. And there'll be a couple of
nights when I don't have to go on and just relax and it'll be a
bit chilled. It's been busier than if I
actually wasn't the cast. Yeah, and for for an evening
where you're not required to go on because everybody has signed
in, everyone's fit and healthy, they're all in for the show.
How long do you have to stay in the theatre until you can
technically leave safely? Well, funny enough, James and I
were discussing this. I think it was on the premiere
we were discussing this with my partner who is the stage
manager, and James was like, you could go at the gunshot, which
anyone who's worked in Matthew born Swan Lake.
Here we go. Knows that that's when you go go
home. There's a gunshot at the end of
Act 3:00, and basically most shows have like a point in the
show where you're allowed to go home if you are the swing or
something. And it's usually the last moment
in the show where you would have time to get changed, get into
costume and get on stage and be able to save the day kind of
thing. And I spoke to James about it
and I thought, well, yes, there's a final climb every
mountain reprise at the end of the show.
And just before that, it would be the final moment where I
could throw on a nun outfit, go on stage and sing the 10 O one
harmony and stand there in the graveyard.
But it's so close to the end. Anyway, that was just like, you
know what? I'm just going to wait till the
end of the show and then just go.
And I literally live A1 Kelly Clarkson song cycle ride away
from the theater. So it's not really the biggest
time saver to go 5 minutes earlier than the end of the
show. No, no, no.
And then you feel better because at least you haven't missed, you
know, anything, you're there if you need to go on, etcetera.
And also, sorry to interrupt also I want to be there
selfishly at the end of the show so I can hear this sounds like
gossip but so I can hear any drama, but so I can hear if
anyone did get injured at the end of the show because then I'm
prepared for the next day. Yeah, so you hear it in real
time rather than maybe getting a text or a phone call the
following morning. Exactly.
So if someone has like, you know, something has happened at
the end of the show or something happened during the show that
wasn't too crazy, but then they went to the stage manager after
the show and said actually, you know what?
My elbow is actually really bad. I don't think I'm going to be
able to go on tomorrow, but I'll let you know then.
I already get a heads up to look at Jessica's track.
Yeah, yeah, it's always Jessica. She's so unreliable.
I don't know why you keep employing her.
So today I wanted to talk about dance in the media.
Dance schools, on TV shows, ballet companies and films, that
kind of stuff. Rihanna wearing Pointe shoes in
umbrella. Julia Stiles in Save the Last
Dance. Well, if we're going down that
road, let's start with a drink. Although I am on the sparkling
water today, I am rehydrating after a night of absolute chaos
and champagne. Well, maybe put a Barocca in
that water. That's not a bad idea, actually.
Well, I have my second to last glass of my sparkly gin and
tonic. Oh, the glitter.
I have one more left the. Glitter tonic.
It's so fabulous when you pour it.
I actually even filmed it today. Remind me where it came.
From it's a it's a gift from my friend who is South African and
it's a South African company. OK, so you couldn't replace it
even if you wanted to I suppose. Was it?
Well, I actually met up with her the other day and she said that
she needs to buy me another one, so I didn't.
Say, Oh yeah, fabulous. Well, cheers and cheers to your
sparkling water. Yes, rehydration, all, all the
way. Honestly, I just, I had the one
glass of champagne that was just refilled the entire evening.
It was unbelievable. And it's so easy to drink when
your glass is magically topped up.
So I had to be very mindful to sip and not just let the glass
be topped up 24/7 because it's just lethal.
It's very lethal. I even remember when you and I
would go to restaurants with Charles, for example, Charles
and he would take us out for dinner and then your wine glass
is just permanently filled up and you're kind of like, I swear
I drank that glass. That's.
It is so it's lovely. Don't get me wrong, how lovely.
Oh, it is spoiled, but it is it's it can be deadly.
Well, cheers love. Cheers.
Let's get into this. Social media brought it to my
attention again because it's always been something that as a
dancer, you see films and TV shows about your industry and
you always kind of roll your eyes at it.
But it's quite a lot. Recently when you have
Instagram, for example, and you have adverts, commercials like
constantly bombarding your eyes and you see all these models
pretending to be ballerinas in campaigns and in shoots and even
kind of your influences trying to be a ballet dancer in photo
shoes and it's just horrible. Yeah, I think especially for
classical ballet and like you say, point shoes, they just ask
these models to throw on the point shoes and and they don't
understand the aesthetic, never mind the skill and the technique
that you need just to get up on points.
So you're just met with, yes, probably a very beautiful model
wearing some very pretty ballet gear.
But when you look at the feet and just how dangerous it it can
be, but also dangerous for the eyes, for our eyes.
It it really I mean. It's vile.
It's when it's, it's the two things that do it to me.
The first thing is because they never tie the ribbons properly.
No, there's always like a massive bow at the front of the
ankle and you kind of like, oh, or they cross it too many times.
So it goes nearly all the way up the shin and all the way up to
the kneecap. But then also they're never
broken in so it's like a rock solid Le Crusade pan on your
foot. Yeah, like a little weedabix,
dry weedabix on the end of the leg.
The only time I've actually seen a model in a shoot pretending to
be a ballet dancer and actually looking good is Kate Moss.
But again, we are talking about, I think the shoot was Kate Moss
surrounded by dancers from the Royal Ballet Company and the
photograph was taken by Mario Testino.
So you have two people who are the top of their game doing it
and even they knew to hide. Kate Moss's feet only show her
from the waist up. And Mario Testino, I mean.
That's so funny, I literally that photo popped up yesterday.
Oh how odd. Black and white and it's dancers
from the Royal Ballet Company and probably, probably late 90s,
maybe or early 2000s. It literally popped up on
Instagram yesterday. And I was like, oh, because I've
never seen it before. And she's kind of laughing.
And there's, she's surrounded by some male dancers of the
company. But also there are some female,
the ballerinas on the other side, but within the same image.
Yeah. But they crop the Super out.
Yeah. And.
That's the way to do it exactly. But I mean you see, I mean I
don't really understand it myself because sometimes it's
even dancewear brands or very very up and coming new cheap
dancewear brands that use non dancers in photos, which for me
makes no sense. But even you're right.
But even big brand dancewear labels use on occasion, non
dancer models. And I guess they're trying to
say the message perhaps is, you know, this is dance wear, but
you know, it can be used for other it can be used for
athletics or whatever, you know, gymnastics or whatever.
But it's it's just so distracting for the eye when you
look at something designed. Again, I refer to classical
ballet. So you know the point shoes, the
ballet types, the the line of. That's what it's really vile.
Yeah, just use lovely dancers where in abundance.
I tell you a a brand that does really nail it with their their
models, male, female and their child, their child models for
dance and that is. Is the dancers studio.
Is, and I am a little bit biased here because it's one of my
favorite brands and we've already discussed my love for
their unitards, but where Moi where Moi nail it every time.
If you look at their they do campaigns and then go through
their online catalogue, you can tell they've really thought
they've really chosen the dancer specifically to showcase what
they're they're showing off either the point shoe or the
leotard or whatever it is. And that's how it should be done
because it's attractive and it and from a business plan
perspective, it makes you want to buy the thing because you
kind of think, gosh, if I buy that leotard, I'm going to look
like, you know, of course, but we all do it.
If I buy that item, I'm going to get a sense of of feeling that
way or looking that way. It's just small.
Well, 100% because that's what happens with, I don't know.
Well, going back to Monica Bellucci, like being the face of
Cartier. The reason that is, is that, oh,
if I wear that jewelry or that watch, I'm going to look and be
like Monica Bellucci. It's the same kind of thing if
if I don't know if Yosvani Ramos is wearing those hot pants and
that leotard, I'm going to look like that.
You know, it's a dancers celebrity in front of you trying
to sell a product and that's how it should be.
But it's a when while the one that used EMB dancers back in
the day wasn't it? Like Adela and I want to say
maybe even Cindy Jordan and James Forbat maybe as well.
Yeah. Yeah.
So what happened, particularly when I was at school, is that
you had where more UK where you had access to those lovely polar
fleeces that everybody wore, the dungarees and whatnot, which I
am obsessed with. And I actually, I actually
contacted Elizabeth Miege, who's the founder, Co founder of Wear
More. Also she was dancing in E&B
company when I was there on loan from the school.
And that's where I bought my first Wear More fleece.
And I have a black, I have two black ones.
I have a Navy blue 1 and I have and I have a burgundy 1, which
was my emergency back up fleece because there was a moment where
we were rehearsing Swan Lake and actually we were called in a
week earlier to help train some of the new Swans and I didn't
have. My sorry, I'm just loving the
fact this is called an emergency fleece.
I so we we had this extra week put into our rehearsal schedule
and I didn't have my dancewear with me because I wasn't
expecting to to need it that that week.
So I made a special trip to remember when poor Sally used to
be on West Street, where the same street where the Ivy
restaurant is. Well, poor Sally, the dancewear
shop used to be there, tiny, tiny shop, but it was packed
full of treats. And I just, I remember going
first thing before I had to be at Sadler's Wells for my first
rehearsal. I was like, Oh my God, can you
please tell me you have some of these, you know, polar, you
know, Eskimo, Waermoir, fleece. And they didn't have any darker
colours. The darkest, the darkest colour
was the like aubergine burgundy, which is not really my vibe, but
it was like I had to get it. And I still have that.
But they're in storage from India, so I only have access to
my black one. But what was the point?
I don't even know what we're talking about.
You just don't. We're just praising Wemoir.
I love. Fleas.
I mean, back in the day wasn't before the Wemoir fleece was
there? Lots of the dancers used to wear
this kind of like baby romper thing.
Yes, that was the prequel to The Fleece.
Yes. Yeah, you had one, I had two.
I had a short one in Navy blue and I had a dark coloured full
length one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean they're not. The irony is that they're not
flattering at. All.
They're really not, but it was the trend of the of the day and
just to go back to that form of conversation because we're
having multiple conversations at the same time.
Yes, A&B dancers were used on the UK.
That was a point of that was my point.
So the UK website had the E&B dances right for the longest
time so that that that would be the place where I I would order
my face. OK then now we have Wenwa USA
and Wenwa Europe. That whole line has been cut
which is why I emailed Elizabeth Miaos on LinkedIn to say where
can I get these fleeces from because I need a new one and she
said the line has stopped now so so something happened.
We're plotting her death. I was devastated.
Thankfully, Repetto do a very similar one.
Anyway, that's a whole other episode.
Just to wrap this up, we're. Supposed to be talking about
dance in the media and all we're doing is talking about warmups.
This is really important, something happened between the
UK website and that, as opposed to global European USA website
where the UK website just got cut.
Much like this conversation is probably going to become.
I won't make the actual edit. Oh my God, I can't even remember
what our point was. Let's move on.
I told you I was tired. We're talking about models.
We're talking about non models modelling dancewear and things.
OK, right. Moving swiftly on.
My God. So I'm a little bit too young
for fame. Like Fame, the TV series that
was around which? As am I.
Which, if you didn't know people out there, Janet Jackson was in
fame. The TV series.
Yes, yes, very, very Janet Jackson.
But I'm too young for that and I'm I don't think I've ever
actually seen fame the film either.
Get out. I mean, I mean, I did, I did see
Footloose and I did see Flashdance and everything and
they're all of their time period.
For me growing up, it was Save the last Dance center stage.
Billy Elliott. I, I mean, Billy Elliott hit me
at AI think I was about 1516 when Billy Elliott came out.
Those are the the films that kind of showcased the dance
world when I was younger. And yeah, for me, I remember
having a very big reaction to Billy Elliott and not a +1.
Really. I I thought the film was fine up
until he auditioned for the Royal Ballet School, Right.
And then when he auditioned for the Royal Ballet School, I
obviously already then was an old jaded queen.
Yeah, because when there's when he's at the audition panel and
they say we just want to know what it feels like when you
dance. And literally at that point, you
know, stood up, pointed at the TV and said, I call bullshit
because that is not what it's like.
I'm sorry. No, no.
Not at what? Not one point would the Royal
Ballet School or any other ballet schools out there when
they are auditioning hundreds of 11 year olds, would they stop
their little one in doing a solo in front of them and say, so
what's it feel like when you dance?
That does not happen. And it made me, it made me
think, it made me a little bit angry watching it.
I think because probably because I wish it was like that.
Because firstly, you don't get to dance a solo.
You don't get to show yourself after your basic best ability
and what you think suits you. Not that an 11 year old me knew
what suited me best. It was kind of harking back to
what we spoke about with auditions.
It was kind of a cattle call. And I remember I stood in, stood
in lines and they would say right frontline, everybody point
your right foot and they'd look at everybody cool, now point
your left foot. Now go in the splits, now go in
the center splits, now go in the left splits.
And obviously there was some dancing as well, but there was
never a solo that you prepared and then then an interview
talking about what you thought about dancing.
And I, I think I got angry because I wished it was like
that. Yeah, I can appreciate that for
sure. And I think also perhaps it's
interesting because why not just show how it really is?
If you're going to invest in creating something, I don't
understand why you have to create this imaginary scene or
dialogue or whatever it is to portray to the audience that you
think the audience. I mean, I suppose this is a is a
note to the directors of these dance, but if you're going to
spend energy and, you know, and time researching, you know, the
dance world, why not just show it as it is?
Does it really need all of the extra storytelling that doesn't
exist within the real realm of the industry to tell your story?
I find it really interesting. It happens.
I mean, I'm not a fan at all of dance themed TV series or films.
I mean, some I have watched out of intrigue for sure, but
they're never accurate. And it's like you said, it's
infuriating. And I just don't understand why
they have to be heightened in negative ways because people do.
They take it as gospel. They believe that's how the
industry is. The amount of people that have
mentioned, oh, so you're a, you know, new people.
Oh, you're a dancer. Oh, great.
Is it really like Black Swan? Yeah.
Oh, my God, Do I really have to have this conversation again?
Like, what is it that you want to know?
And are you interested in knowing anything?
Reality. Yeah.
I mean, for me, what was quite funny is that Billy Elliott
saves the last dance with Julia Stiles, my God.
And also kind of flashdance as well.
They all kind of have that same audition to get into the school
story, you know, they don't fit in the box and then they do
their own thing at the audition and they get in anyway.
Yeah, which I don't know how based in reality that is, but
yeah, that's that. However, I will say with Centre
Stage, when that came out, yes, it's full of drama and sleeping
with the director and anorexia and stuff like this.
I actually felt that that movie was quite close to reality.
Yeah, yeah. As horrible as that sounds and
the issues that are in that movie, I actually think it it's
not as crazy as Black Swan because obviously Black Swan is
kind of like a horror thriller kind of movie thing.
I felt that center stage was out of everything I've seen pretty
accurate. I mean the sleeping with
directors and the and the anorexia and you know, the way
the cast list goes up and all of that kind of stuff is pretty
accurate. Sorry, but.
Yeah. I mean, they definitely, they
definitely touched on things that were based in some truth.
So they obviously did some research.
It's all the extra. I mean, it's, it's difficult.
I understand that, you know, when you're creating a film, the
idea is to sell as many tickets as possible and try and make as
much profit as possible, right? So if the sex needs to be
heightened or the drama needs to be heightened, I get all of
that. But what's infuriating is when
all of the inaccuracies and going back to Black Swan again,
when they announced, oh, you know, Black Swan is coming out,
there was a there was a lot of buzz around it.
And in some ways I was very interested and excited to see it
because I thought how lovely to have a film based, you know,
within the story of Swan Lake and, you know, in a dance
company, you know. Also Natalie Portman Stan, I do
like her. Me too.
Yeah, me too. Lovely leading character.
You know, this came out in 2010. So, you know, I thought we've
probably moved beyond kind of tacky, cliche dance films and
there's been a little bit of an evolution.
But immediately in the beginning of the film, I was, I was
already angry when I don't know how familiar you are with the
film, but the company are doing company class and I think
they're auditioning. I think the scenario is they're
doing company class, they're auditioning for upcoming casting
of Swan Lake. So they're all kind of doing
their best full company and the director, so they're still at
the bar, right? The director walks into the
studio. They're still doing the
exercises, but he's then launches into this massive
speech about casting and the importance and just it would
never happen. Well, no.
These people are in the company. They know what how a company
works. But also they're doing company
class, Granted it's for an audition or for or forecasting,
but they're doing a company class.
Like, why would the director waltz into the studio, start to
circle, you know, the dances and start giving this very dramatic
speech? That annoyed me immediately
because I was like, well, that would never happen.
I can't imagine it's ever happened.
But if it has, I mean, that's so egotistical of the director.
That's so warped. If that has happened, it's so
unlikely. The only thing that could happen
is that the director could maybe give a speech before class
started or when people are stretching in between.
Barman Center could say, just so you know, so and so is watching
this class to cast for his next ballet.
Absolutely never talking through, you know, the pianist
and the dancers doing exercises already that sets the tone of
the film. And so I was annoyed at kind of
just how that would never happen.
And then before we move on from Black Swan, because there are
moments that are interesting and there are moments accurate.
I did love seeing, you know, the exquisite costumes and hearing
the music slightly reworked for film and, you know, glimpses of
the studio and whatnot. But they were very proud.
The creative team were very proud of Natalie Portman, you
know, spending an intensive year training in classical ballet.
Wonderful for her, the commitment and the discipline
that you need. But 12 months is not going to
cut it. And they used a body double
anyway. But the moments where she's
dancing, she did very, very well.
But as a professional dancer, if you go back and look at those
scenes, I mean, they're edited, you know, it really, it's just
unnecessary. There are so many wonderful
dancers that can act. And I get the draw of a big star
celebrity name. But if you're going to do a
dance themed film, particularly a classical ballet themed film,
surely there must be an exquisite actor or actor.
But I think that's also why I think I'm not a center stage big
super fan. It sounds like I am.
Talking. Here we go.
But the thing why I think center stage worked was because I have
no idea. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry if you're listening guys, but the lead blonde girl
is a real ballet dancer. The the boyfriend.
The hot brown haired guy means nothing.
He is a. Real ballet dancer Ethan Stifel
supposedly is a real ballet. I'm going to love my dancer.
Exquisite. He's a real.
Ballet dancer like so they are capable of.
Casting Yeah of casting this. Movie and actually having proper
ballet dancers in the leads. They actually it was only the
the side role in what they called the supporting roles that
actually weren't ballet dancers. Zoe.
Avatar Zoe. What's her name?
Saldana. Saldana.
She was in there because it was the time that she did like
Crossroads with Britney Spears and then did a centre stage era.
She's the one who. Before she went down the sci-fi
route, she was doing those kind of films.
No, because she did that. The role of the girl who was she
had some great one liners in that film.
Isn't it better if we all do a triple-A nice clean double?
I'd like Shut it Zoe talking about Zoe's one liners.
That leads me on to another thing that I saw Neve Campbell
did a film called The Company. Yes, I do.
Remember hearing of this. I've never seen it but yes
you're right, I remember watching it.
Once ages ago and not think it was very good.
Anyway, I googled it before this episode to see some clips of the
dance sequences and the first thing that came up was this
scene that was in a rehearsal room.
And basically the choreographer is there working with these two
guys doing this kind of contemporary piece with the guys
in skirts. Very Martha Graham lamentation.
And then basically said, yes, just grab the skirt, take the
skirt in a whatever way. And then straight away the other
guy goes, that's not what you said yesterday.
Yesterday you wanted to do this and yesterday you wanted us to
take the skirt like this and starts kicking off straight,
right. Exactly that facial pulling
right now. That's that's exactly what I was
thinking when that happened. I was like, OK, firstly, I don't
think that's very realistic that a dancer would just snap back at
the choreographer unprovoked straight away, I mean.
Well, they've all done it at one point.
Not correct actually I would say.
No, I haven't, but I've seen it happen.
But when I was watching this, I was like, this is giving.
It's giving male gay dancers a very bad Rep.
It just came across as basically a bitchy queen kicking off.
Yeah, playing. Up.
Yeah, playing up it was a bit like.
OK, that's not. We do have respect in these
rooms. And again, it was one of those
things where I was like, yeah, you've done this for film, but
it's not realistic. I don't.
Yes, people have kicked off in rehearsal rooms and stuff, but
like, this was an unprovoked thing and it was just.
I don't know, it just really riled me up already just
watching it, thinking it's not realistic.
Yeah, unprovoked. I mean I.
Will say that. Nowadays, the younger generation
seem to have lost a little bit of respect.
And there is a quicker reaction, Yeah, I mean it's a fine.
Line, isn't it? I think what we're talking about
is, is, you know, the manners and the etiquette has perhaps
been a little bit lost. And, you know, generally
speaking, perhaps younger dancers feel maybe more
entitled. And I mean, this is a massive
general generalization. And of course it, it will change
from school to school to to country to whatnot.
But I think you're right, the etiquette has been lost in some
ways. And we've discussed this before,
yes. Where young dancers?
Do feel more open to say how they feel and that's not wrong
to be that way. But I think it's all in the
delivery. And again, for me, it's all
about rather than deference, it's more about respect.
Show the respect to the show, give yourself some self respect
and show respect to your colleagues and to the creative
management. You can always choose to deliver
something in in in a either less aggressive or combative way.
Why? I said I added like 3 little
bells into that word, but you know what?
I mean, I mean, I, I completely agree because there was
something that happened literally the other day that
something was being set and a dancer replied with also we're
changing this again for the 4th time.
Oh my God. And Lich was like.
And what if it is being changed again?
It's a redundant. Response though, because it's
just to provoke the room, isn't it?
Or, you know exactly it's like what?
The only thing you've achieved with that comment is riled up
the choreographer made the whole room go yeah.
It's being changed. Because for whatever reason, a
reason that you don't know, it's been changed because from out
front it looks bad, or it's been changed because some other
people didn't get the memo and they're still doing it on the
other leg, or it's changed because to go into the next
sequence it works better. Like whatever reason it has been
changed and there is a reason. Yeah, let's move on.
Let's not sit here and discuss it because you're deciding to
kind of kick up a fuss. And how peculiar.
Well, so I go. Back on what I said that scene
when the Neve Campbell movie was based in reality.
Today's theme of the podcast is a roundabout way in answering We
will get there in the end, so. What have we learned?
We've learned that center stage actually is the only one that
did it right. I will say center stage, though,
the whole motorbike on stage, I can't, I can't.
I can't. And then her sleeping with the
choreographer. And then.
Being the lead in his. Ballet.
And then like he goes to kiss her afterwards, after the show,
and she's like, I love you as a choreographer and as a dancer,
but as a boyfriend you kind of suck.
I'm going with this guy like, Oh my God, I can't.
I think much like the movie Showgirls, it's they become,
they become iconic because they're terrible films really.
That's why they're so good. And I think, you know, it's
reached that level of fandom because it's so terrible.
You can actually watch it. I mean, I haven't watched it in
a very, very long time. But of course those scenes and
the, the red point shoes pop up and that, you know, the, the hip
hops and the I mean, I have to. Say one thing that I do like
about that movie as well is that I remember I'm saying I'm
talking about this movie like I see it every day of my life.
I literally have not seen it this many times, but like I
think it was just ink burnt into my brain was at the end when
she's offered, she goes in for a meeting with is Abti think and
she says stop. Before you tell me whether I've
got the job or not, I just want to tell you that I've been
offered principal at this other guy's company because if I was
in your company, I would just be in the quarter ballet waving a
rose back and forth and I'm better than that.
I don't know where's my best years in the quarter ballet.
I want to be in a smaller company and be a principal and
do solo as roles. That whole scene, as dramatic
and has maybe weirdly worded as that speech was, was kind of
cool. I kind of thought that
conversation is never brought up, that not everybody wants to
be in New York City Ballet abt Paris Opera, whatever.
Like I thought it was. It was nice to have some a
conversation of someone saying like, I love your company.
I think it's great. I'm not that dancer.
I'm a dancer who actually wants to be in a smaller company and
do this. I thought that was cool that
that was discussed. Yeah.
And I'm sure for. Some dancers watching that movie
in real time, it was it gave them a voice or or or an option
to think outside of the box and think actually, I wonder if
that's that's what I want. Is that what I want?
Let's explore that because we're so conditioned, aren't we, to,
you know, go through vocational school, graduate, get into a big
ballet company and then, you know, rah rah rah.
But actually having options or hearing options is, is, is a
positive thing. And also because it is a.
Hollywood movie and it's, you know, quotation marks, normal
people watching. I I kind of like the fact that,
you know, normal people are hearing this because the amount
of times when I've said that I live in Denmark and I'm a ballet
dancer, I have to hear, oh, you're in the royal Danish.
Oh, no, I'm not. Oh, then what do you do?
There is more in a country than just the Royal Ballet in
England, the Royal Danish in Denmark, that you know what I
mean? Like it kind of.
I like, I like hearing that from that film as well, that to try
and teach people that there is more than just that massive
ballet company, yes. That happens.
That happens a lot. Yeah, that happens a lot.
I think even last week someone asked, oh, what do you do?
And I said, oh, I'm AI said, well, I was a classical dancer.
I now teach classical band, right.
Oh, and the first, the first question they asked was, Oh, are
you a, were you a principal dancer?
And I, I kind of caught me off guard and I was like, and I was
like, no, but you know, I was a soloist for, for certain things.
And I found myself like having to explain, like value myself.
And then I just thought it's just it's they were lovely to
ask a question. They probably felt informed
because they knew what a principal dancer was, but it was
it was the wrong question. It's, it's also difficult, I
suppose, when you meet up with maybe not so much friends, but
maybe former colleagues and you happen to bump into each other
in town and you're like, oh, hi, how are you doing?
And you know, oh, what are you, what are you in at the moment?
Now, if that person isn't in anything, it's very, very
disheartening to have to say, Oh, you know, I'm whatever,
whatever they're doing. But it's what, the way you ask
someone how they are, I know we, we're, we're kind of verging off
into a slightly different conversation, but just based on
the back of what you just said about, you know, oh, royal
Danish, etcetera. Just be mindful, I suppose, of
of how you interact with people within the same industry because
that person who's not working at the moment may be feeling very
disheartened completely. They might have just gone to six
auditions and not got any of them.
And yeah, yeah, it's just so. Interesting how people who are
not perhaps in the industry or are in the industry can can make
you feel a certain way just by asking to them probably a pretty
generalized question, you know, so it's it's it's interesting
and also because you would. Never do it to someone working.
I don't know. In banking you never go up.
To someone. You know also what you're doing.
I work for HSBC also. You work in that massive tower
in Canary Wharf and you're an investment banker.
So no, I'm a bank teller in Southwark, in HSSBC.
Like you wouldn't. You wouldn't.
Yeah, isn't it? Guess.
That they were at the top of their ladder or something.
It's very odd that whole oh, so you were you a principal dancer
with like straight away guessing, asking the question of
oh, are you someone's saying to you, basically, if you said, oh,
I'm I'm a classical dancer and someone's saying, oh, are you a
principal with the Royal Ballet? It's a very specific the highest
job in the land to ask and you happen to have met this person
in Greg's in West Brompton. I don't know buying a.
Buying a Cornish pasty from Greg's it is.
Very odd that someone goes straight to straight to that it
is anyway. Yeah, it.
Happened well the and also. Like, that's goes back to, well,
dance in the media is presented incorrectly and doesn't have
representation the way it should.
It doesn't show what our industry is really like.
And I suppose maybe, you know, doctors say the same about ER
and casualty. Like yeah, I always wonder.
How accurate those like they must have people in saying this
is how you but I'm sure there are so many inaccuracies and and
people in the medical profession are like we wouldn't do that.
We wouldn't say that. We certainly wouldn't, you know,
perform surgery in that, you know, it must happen in a
crossover in multiple industries.
But yeah, I mean, the dance world is, is is not shown in its
true form. Although saying that more
recently there have been two ballet based TV series that I
have happened to watch one with one is called Flesh and Bone.
And I mean, the title alone is just, I mean, ridiculous.
But anyway, now I had a look and that was launched in 2015, but I
actually watched it much later because I remember watching it
on Netflix during COVID when Alan and I were living in
Mumbai. So I kind of got through a
little bit of COVID watching this series.
And I have to say again, it's the struggles of a dancer in a,
in a ballet company and the relationship with the director
and this, this sexuality is heightened and you've got overly
camp dying. But I did enjoy elements of that
series because the dancing was good.
Like they you, I think the main character, I think she was in, I
think she's American, but she was in a ballet company in
Dresden. So she was like a fully
confessional ballet dancer. And I thought that the, the
technique and the standard, the level of the dancers they use
for the TV series was great. But again, you know, the, the,
the dramatisation, you know, these storylines and themes are,
you know, over the top. But the dancing, I think check
it out. I think you'd enjoy it.
For me it is. Also, especially like, if it's
going to be that over the top, like sorry to bring it up again
center stage, at least the dancers can't do something.
Yes, yes. Yes, yes, whereas the other the
a more recent TV series which certainly in the UK is still on
because I checked prior to this recording is Pretty Little
things that came out in 20. Oh, I've made it that one.
And again, you know, out of intrigue.
I watched it and it was infuriating in many ways.
But again, the standard, the level of dancing was good.
You know, and they really, they have used real dancers working
in the industry. I mean, the levels, when it's
slightly inconsistent, you know, you can tell they've chosen
actors or actresses who can act but also dance, where in some
cases they've chosen some excellent dancers that also are
great at acting. You know, so as a professional
dancer, I can see the difference between a great actor who
perhaps isn't the best dancer that can get away with it versus
a fantastic dance. The peaks and valleys of.
Ability, yeah, but it's. But but again, you know, but the
same thing between, you know, sentence sentence sensitive
flesh and bone, Black Swan, they all follow those kind of over
dramatized themes, which I think infuriates, you know, those who
have been educated within classical ballet or or dance in
general. But again, I think that's more
about selling, making a profit on the movie, But maybe that
won't ever change. You know, maybe we'll otherwise,
perhaps it's it's deemed as a documentary rather than a film.
I don't know if it's too accurate.
I don't know. But, and and I'm sure there's an
audience for it, but the result is, you know, the audience take
it as gospel mostly. And they they think we we live
like that within that dance company.
I just find it interesting. Because in an, in an era where
there is so many reality shows and documentaries and people
wanting to know what things are really like, industries are
really like. Whenever it is dance, it is
always dramaticized and always over the top and always I, I
would find it very interesting. I mean, even myself, I would
find it very interesting to watch a documentary or I watch a
a more realistic view about a ballet school, a theatre school,
behind the scenes of a western show kind of thing.
I I would find. But maybe that's just me, I
don't know. Now I think there's a market.
For it, whether you're a dancer or not, I mean, English National
Ballet had, was it the agony and the ecstasy?
Was it like a three-part document?
Oh, yeah. And, you know, I've heard
stories from, you know, dancers in the company at the time where
things were edited out of context, you know, just to
tighten the drama. So even that was never a true
representation of of what what was really going on.
But yeah, because actually the most, some of the most
interesting things are what's happening behind the scenes and
not on the stage, you know? Oh, 100% it.
Would be really interesting. To see, you know, little
highlights of conversations in the corridors and what happens
in the dressing room and how act as the, you know, how dancers
are different from being on stage to how they interact and
behave with each other, you know, off stage, etcetera.
But you know, I suppose it's still quite a niche market.
Even if there is a market, it's still quite niche.
So I just think lots of. People would be interested, I
don't know, to see, you know, that couple at the back in the
market scene of Romeo and Juliet, when they're stood there
reacting to the sword fight or whatever, they're also talking
to each other, being like, should we go to KFC tonight?
Yeah, let's go to KFC. Oh, my God, Act, act, act.
Because all of that kind of, it's like, oh, did I turn off my
hair straighteners before I left?
That's what's happening on. Stage If you wonder what dancers
are talking about when they're in the back of a market scene or
whatever, or even in a dance when you're doing some I don't
know, you're partnering your girl in some slow promenade,
usually saying Can you believe what so and so did last night
Yeah, all those little. Moments of, of very private,
intimate moments that kind of carries the dancer through what
they need to get through. Because I think once you're well
rehearsed and, and the movement is in your body, those moments
definitely do happen. And they are very, very discreet
because I think any well trained, I mean no one could
tell. No, no one can tell.
And I think it is quite normal to have those moments.
It doesn't take away from what you're giving to the audience.
You know, we're we're great at multitasking and being focused.
You know, we can execute what we need to execute.
And on on occasion we might have a non dance related conversation
whilst dancing on stage. I think that's perfectly normal.
I think any dancer that says they've never done that is is
lying lying through. Their teeth?
Yeah, I think so. So even there's.
So many moments. I mean, Tom Forster was talking
about it with me the other week that, you know, there were so
many moments as a quarter ballet member that you just stood
there. So of course, when you're stood
there in your market scene or in your whatever it is, pretending
to buy an apple from a market stall in the background
somewhere, you were having a full on conversation with Adela
and Cindy Jordan. Kiara and Nadine are having a
full on conversation. Yeah.
Yeah, it definitely happens. And actually I think an
audience, you know, ATV audience would find that really
interesting, 100%, you know more.
Than some. Stage scenario where the
directors giving a speech in the middle of Ron de Jean, you know,
it's just ridiculous, but also it's always.
About sex, and I'm sorry, I mean, yes, I know in every
single industry there is somebody, some person who wants
to sleep their way to the top. Like it's not a a dance related
thing. It's a thing that has happened
in industry and the work world in every aspect of every single
business, whatever you're talking about.
But these dance movies and dance TV series really like to focus
on in on a female dancer sleeping with the director.
Oh, absolutely. And you'll there the key themes,
you know, ambition, rivalry, deceit, eating disorders, sex
that I mean, I'm sure if you made a list of all the dance
films, all of those themes would be running through each each
movie or TV series at some point 100%.
And you never hear, you know, the amount of people who are
just working in the chord ballet, love their life, are
going out to, I don't know, Rupert Street Bar afterwards and
that's it. Yeah, I mean, but that doesn't
make a movie, I'm sure, but. We'd watch it exactly.
It'd be more. Interesting to see what the
dancer did at Rupert Street Bar. But that's the interesting part
of it. Why is there not a movie showing
the dancers getting drunk off their face at Rupert St. trying
to get through the show the next day?
There's your reality. Yeah, Harsh.
Reality. The double.
Show on Boxing Day, that's the reality or a new.
Year's Day special Awful. Nobody needs to be performing on
New Year's Day. Also, no one needs to be.
Going to the theatre to watch on New Year's Day?
Yeah, I agree. Like seriously.
Who out as an adult myself now 40.
Hello. I don't want to go to the
theatre on New Year's Day as an audience member.
Like no. Why?
Cut that New Year's Day theatre. But also I have to say that's.
One thing in Denmark that I love New Year's Day is like is is a
bank holiday, right? So there is no work on New
Year's Day. Everybody can be hungover.
I'm sure Walt earned millions, but so there is never a show on
New Year's Day. I love it.
Yeah, that's the way it should be.
Isn't it? I mean, if you're seeing the new
year in, you're up bare minimum, you're still up at midnight,
right? So nobody wants to then and
you're drinking champagne. Nobody wants to get up and
perform, and nobody wants to get.
Up and go watch a show. The last thing I want to do with
a hangover is sit in a dusty old theatre and watch a show.
No, I want to be on my sofa eating prosciutto ham.
Yeah. With a full fat coke.
Watching Jane. McDonald highlights on YouTube
watching centre. Stage full circle if you'd.
Like to sign our petition to to cull New Year's Day Live
theatre? Please follow the link and if
you would like to. Join our fan club of Centre
Stage please. Merchandise will be.
Available soon. All right, babes.
Well, thank you for listening everybody to another episode of
Drinks at the Bar. Yes, thank you for listening.
Hope you've enjoyed your drink and please don't forget to share
our little podcast with your friends, colleagues and Pilates
instructor. Thank you so much.
All right, sweetheart, I love you lots.
Always great to talk to you. Love you too.
Big kiss. Enjoy the rest of your day off.
You too. Love you lots, babes.
Bye bye.