Hello and welcome to Drinks at the Bar, the podcast where we
breakthrough the 4th wall and discuss everything about dance
and the theatre industry. My name is poor James Rooney, a
dancer, choreographer and dance teacher based in Copenhagen, and
I am your host of Drinks at the Bar.
Today I'm joined by my regular guest host, the body of the
1990s Special K Commercials. It is Damien Lister.
Hi everybody, I'm Damien Lee Sterk, director of the Dancer
Studio London, classical ballet teacher and actor with the Royal
Ballet. Here we will discuss everything
from hearing backstage stories, touring shenanigans, to deeper
issues like body image training, the reality of being a freelance
dancer, and more. With guest professionals, we are
here to share our knowledge, experience, and help you with
any questions or problems you may have about dance and
navigating the dance world. Hi, Denise.
Welcome back. Hello my darling, I know season
4 I can't believe it I. Know it's fantastic.
I'm so happy to be back recording and.
Oh me. Too back chatting to you but
recorded of course we never talk with without it being we.
Never speak off camera, off mic. Well I have got myself a gin and
tonic and I haven't had one in absolutely ages.
So cheers to you love. What do you have to drink?
Oh, cheers. I have a glass of Sauvignon and
it's chilled to perfection. So chin, chin.
And it's currently 4 minutes past five in the afternoon here
in England for you, an hour ahead.
SO66-O, four. Very civilized.
Very civilized, time to drink so cheers love.
Flash forward, bed by 9. And welcome everybody to Season
4. Welcome back.
Oh, that's lovely. I have to before we go down a
rabbit hole of how we do, look at the bottle.
Isn't this a stunning bottle of gin?
That's lovely. You're going to have to describe
it though for our oh, actually no, we are filming, so depending
on how this is uploaded, but just in case, describe.
Depending on the platform you are using, it is, I would say a
Peacock Blue Bottle. It's called Scarack, it's a
Nordic gin, and it's got the coast of Norway embossed into
the glass. Wonderful thanks to us, The
Bouncers Season 4. Wink, wink.
Well, hello, Mummy needs a new laptop.
Cheers everybody, and cheers Denise.
Sorry. Cheers and everyone.
We haven't done an episode since before Christmas and since then
I was just, I think I, I had just, Oh yes, we recorded.
I had just finished the workshops with James.
Yes. The workshops from My Fair Lady
and I remember on the last episode because I haven't
listened to it since it came out.
So I'm trying to remember what we discussed, but I think it was
just before we started the proper rehearsals with the
entire cast and everything, and just before I went to Paris to
see my friend in Chicago. That's right.
So just a little catch up for all of our listeners.
So yes, I went to Paris. It was a very, very quick trip,
Tours and I went over to Paris and had a lovely two days.
I think it was there, stayed in the Hoxton Hotel, which was
stunning. And yeah, I went to see my
friend Niels, who was performing in Chicago in Paris, and it was
just fantastic to see that show again.
I haven't seen it since probably the early 2000s in the West End,
back in the Adelphi Theatre or something.
Yeah. And it's just timeless.
It's just such a timeless show. And the choreography is
fantastic. And kind of like we've discussed
on previous episodes with Balanchine and other
choreographers and other shows, there is like a hierarchy of
people that go around and check the, like, quality, check the
show. And we'll come round and help
teach the choreography and help choose the dancers so that you
have the correct standard. And there was, there's nothing I
can fault with that production. I came out, you know, when you
come out, you've just seen a really good show.
And everything was just high class, high quality.
The dancers were sleek, beautiful, fantastic style.
Just everything was great. It was just just as I
remembered, and I came out of it, yeah, exactly feeling
exactly like I did when I saw it the first time.
It's just such a good show. How lovely was it in English or
French? It was in French tu Le Jaze.
Fabulous and quite right in Paris.
Yeah, but you know how lovely to see it in French.
And I love that show. And I also love the film.
As you know, we are literally Catherine Zeta Jones and you are
Renee Salviger. Oh, am I Queen Latifah?
Sometimes, yes, but I love it. And I think we've spoken about
this before in a past season, but because we've both
auditioned for Chicago. Is that correct?
Yeah, yeah. I mean, mine had not got it.
Obviously not got it because we're not showgirls.
We're classically trained, but mine was.
I don't know how I got on that list.
I don't know how I got on that list, but I was on a private
list. It was at Pineapple, I think at
the very, very top, and it was with Anne Reinking.
Oh my God. Oh, it's at at that studio where
you walk past Roland's class and it like further.
Yeah, I think so. I it was, I mean, it was so long
ago, but it was. Pineapple had just opened.
Literally it was the opening week of pineapple.
It was me and Deb's. She'd just put put down the
first month's mortgage and it was exciting and I'm so glad for
that moment. It was terrifying.
I was very, very young. I just don't know how I ended up
in that room, but I'm glad that I was.
Oh, yeah, 100%. I mean, if not just to meet Anne
Rankin, but I mean, I, I mean, I told the story on the podcast
about me auditioning for Chicago in London, you know, lying on my
CV about my height and my age and my weight and my gender and
my but I auditioned for it in, in Copenhagen at the new theatre
where I work now. And they are not the best at
replying quickly with emails. And, and I, I remember I
contacted them after not hearing something for a long time and
they said, oh, you're the first on the wait list.
So we can't give you a definitive no right now in case
someone, understandably, they keep me waiting until everybody
has signed their contracts and then they can say, OK, we're not
going to need you. So that was understandable.
Then I didn't hear from them for ages and I was just like, OK,
I'm guessing everybody has signed their contracts and
everybody has said yes and they've just forgotten to call
me. Like, fine.
Like that's completely fine. Anyway, Fast forward, I think
I'm in Malmo doing Billy Elliot and I'm in the middle of
rehearsals and I get a phone call from the New Theatre and
it's the day of the premiere of Chicago at the New Theatre in
Copenhagen. And they call me up and the
office calling me saying, yeah, we're just calling to say that
yes, you did not get Chicago and we're not going to need you for
the contract. Oh my God.
So OK, well, better late than never, but like, I kind of
worked that out myself. The premieres tonight.
I know I'm fast at learning stuff but come on.
It's so rude, though, isn't it, just to be so blase.
I actually thought the story was going to go the other way and
they were either going to be like, oh, hey, Paul, we're just
reminding you, you've got a rehearsal in, you know, 15
minutes or, oh, somebody's just pulled out.
Would you mind stepping in? You know, But no.
No, it's just reminding me that I didn't have the job.
Bad communication. Hi, it's the Premier.
We're just calling to remind you that we don't want to see you on
stage. Thank you.
We didn't get it and we just wanted to tell you officially.
We just really want to put salt in that wound.
Cheers. Oh my God.
Well, yeah. So we carrying on from Chicago,
we we then did rehearsals from My Fair Lady and that went
really well. James and I were, you know, a
great team, as we have been before.
And we had cast the right people.
It was just a very drama free. We've now finished the
production already. That's how long it's been.
We've rehearsed it, we've done the three months of performances
and now we've stopped and it's just been a very drama free
experience because it, it's just, it's one of those things
where it just proves that, you know, having experience and
knowing people and having people on the inside cast in the show
and just some instead of just a random outside choreographer not
knowing anything about the people within that retrospective
city. It it really paid off because
James and I obviously have used our experience and our knowledge
and our, you know, knowing of people in the industry and
knowing their backgrounds and knowing their past employment
history and knowing what they like to as a colleague and all
that kind of stuff. In addition to what we saw in
the room to cast the show. And we ended up with a very
drama free production. And so that was lovely.
Yeah. So we did the rehearsals where I
was assistant choreographer. And then when the show started,
then I was swinging on the production and.
Yeah. Sure and sweet, but drama free.
And sometimes having a drama free contract is quite lovely,
isn't it? Because, you know, for those who
are performing on a regular basis, they'll appreciate, you
know, the second you step into the dressing room, it's almost
as if something takes over you and we all start performing for
each other in the dressing room. You know, I think it's a way to
get the energy up and to get into show mode, particularly in
periods where, for example, right now for the next three
weeks, we have performances on a Monday evening and, and on a
Saturday with nothing in between.
So it feels like a lifetime in between performances.
So when you step in to that dressing room, you're so you're
so happy to see all your colleagues and you're getting
your costumes on and your wigs and you know if you've got any
mustache to glue on. And then the dresser comes in
and it's very, very high energy to Rev you up for the
performance so that you can step on stage having have, having had
a few days off in between. But sometimes, depending on
who's in that dressing room, for example, the, the chemistry can
change. And sometimes it's a little bit
low key. Others it's very, very
heightened. And those quieter, softer
moments can be quite nice as well.
So I'm glad you appreciated the the calmness of it all.
Yeah, I mean, and also, you know, the drama free being there
wasn't, you know, some diva complaining about the dance
floor or or whatever it is or the temperature of the room and
all that kind of extravagant diva like behaviour which we've
all experienced on a. I've never experienced anything
like. That that we've all experienced
on multiple occasions. And yes, in hindsight, those
moments are what you talk about on a podcast that you start with
your friend and, and those are the moments that you remember
and you laugh about. But if you actually do think
back to when it was happening, it was not fun, those drama
moments and when things went wrong at the moment, they're fun
to look back on in the great memories, but they were not fun
in the moment. And so being very present right
now, we've just finished the final show.
It's been a very pleasant drama free production and especially
being a swing, having a drama free performance schedule has
been lovely. But yes, I did not do this job
to be the swing. I did this job to be the
assistant choreographer. And that part of my job I love.
I love that side being that side of the table.
Like of course I love performing and I love dancing myself, but I
really do love being the other side of the table.
And I loved being assistant choreographer, and I love giving
notes, and I love problem solving, and I love trying to
Polish that silverware until it really shines and trying to
figure out how to help someone do a step.
And yeah, I love my job. Well, thank God, because
otherwise it would be. Pays nothing.
Pays nothing and it would be terrible.
There's nothing. There's no security.
No, no, no, don't have a pension.
Oh gosh, don't get me started on that, but I think it is rather
lovely. Having had a long, a long, very
long performing career, it is nice to be on the other side of
the table, like you say, because you, especially if, like you and
I, we're both teachers, so we clearly enjoy sharing and
passing on information. So, you know, being able to
share those little magical moments of stage experience is
really, really quite special, particularly when those people
are very receptive and they appreciate it because some
productions are thrown on so quickly and they, they lose the
essence of what, what the choreography or the vision was
because it's a business, right? So.
And because of who's teaching it.
I'm only half a glass of wine in wait until but true you make a
fairpoint if if the person restaging doesn't care enough or
is not informed enough or is not supported enough, then the
interpretation of said production, let's say, may not
be at its best. Because they're not.
They're not delving into the true creative essence of what
that production stands for. Anyway, we're going on way off
topic. Way off topic, all I wanted to
say was I'm happy. No, but.
Really happy everybody. She's happy.
Now Fast forward two weeks when
we're doing Episode 3 and she's furious.
No, but it's, it was very nice to have a group of performers,
I'd say performance because it's a, you know, musicals are very
mix of whether they're dancers, singers, actors, a mix of the
three, all that kind of stuff. But it was just nice to have a
group of people again, because James and I chose said people
that were not only receptive, but willing and wanting
corrections. And we all know that, especially
when it's something maybe you're not the strongest at, as some
people in this production are singer actors and we're making
them dance. You can get very defensive and
you can put up a wall and when you start getting corrections
about dancing because it's not something you're comfortable
with and you get that kind of and there's none of that.
No, it was just it was pleasant. I'm going to leave that said
production now. It was pleasant.
Great. I'm.
Thrilled. I'm thrilled.
Not one story to share with them.
Not one story to share with us. Well, next week we're talking
about being a swing, so. Then there's plenty.
So love, what about you? You just said that you're doing
shows right now. I am.
What shows are we up to? What shows am I up to?
So when we last, when we were last recording, I think I'm I'd
either just finished touring with English National Ballet,
Sleeping Beauty or I was about to finish, I can't remember.
But that was fantastic. I had a great time being back on
tour, wonderful company. I hadn't worked with them for a
while, so that was really, really great.
I have to say a truly lovely, friendly, welcoming, hard
working, talented company. So that was marvellous and it
ain't over yet because we Part 2 of that contract is at the Royal
Albert Hall in June. So I'm so excited to go back
there because that's where I first performed with English
National Ballet. So full circle moment.
Amazing. Christmas was low key and then
we revved up again at the Opera House for.
The bill, The Musical. I'm Co producing.
We started Giselle. I mean I and I hadn't done
Giselle before with the Royal Ballet and I was really
manifesting the Giselle Ness out of every day because I wanted to
be a part of that production. But you just never know who's
coming in and who's coming out because there has to be a place.
And I just prayed to the gods, all the gods, that I'd been
offered a contract and I was, and I loved every single moment.
And then that blended straight into myelin, which was another
contract I'd not done. So I basically won those two new
contracts with the Royal Ballet, and we're still doing myelin
right now. So I think we have maybe 8, 7 or
8 performances left of Myling. Then we go back into a run
across the road and go to English National Ballet for
Sleeping Beauty. And in between all of those
things, we've had dancer studio workshops, including, well, our
next one a week on Sunday is a very special one.
It's our very first intensive. So it's, it's 10:30 till 3:30.
So they'll the dancers will be working hard.
They do have a couple of breaks in between, but it is an
intensive. From 11:00 till 2.
But we chain smoking on the terrazza on the 6th floor at the
Opera House, braiding each other's hair.
So it starts with class. And then we'll tackle Liam
Scarlett's Swan Lake Act 2 walls for for the Royal Ballet.
And then we have a little lunch break and then we come back into
the studio and we have a very special guest coach, Mr. Simon
Williams. Fantastic, fantastic.
Who'll be leading a more modern interpretation.
And so the dancers from the morning session get to tackle a
more contemporary, still lyrical, but contemporary
interpretation. And it's the same music.
So it's the it's actually. Well.
Music, but a completely different interpretation.
So that's I'm so excited. I mean, it's a lovely idea as
well for them to, to do this for people who aren't, you know, who
haven't done it before, who aren't dancers.
It might sound strange, but to learn something to a piece of
music, go outside, come back in and then learn something
completely different to the same piece of music, that's just
fantastic. It makes you understand the
music in a different way. And and, oh, it's so clever,
Damien. And live piano, live, Thank you,
live piano with my amazing pianist, who I'm reluctant to
say his name because I don't want anybody else to, but James,
James Goulburn is phenomenal. He does so much at the Opera
House. It's unavailable.
Unavailable and he definitely cannot accept any work on any
Sunday. Unless you give the dancer
Studio London 20% of Commission. Yes, we do.
I, I am operating as his agent, his freelance agent as well.
So no, he's amazing. He he plays at pineapple.
He's a conductor. He's I'm so I'm so thrilled that
we, we get to work with him and he's and he's lovely and so
sweet. So, but live music, Swan Lake
classical, Swan Lake modern and and full class at the start of
the day at the Opera House. So yeah, very, very excited.
So busy. And what time and can I get a
flight and do you have any spaces available?
We're it's selling very, very well, quite rightly so.
I put that because Simon is so handsome, so he's our campaign.
I plastered his photo all over social media quite deliberately.
Yeah, why not? But it's selling very well, and
you'd be more than welcome, of course.
Oh. My God, but have Simon.
Simon. And he played the Prince and the
Swan like within the same season.
I mean, that's I was going to say in the same unbelievable,
unbelievable so. Unbelievable.
And also like we spoke about before regarding what you're
just talking about with Simon with new Adventures and or
adventures in motion pictures, whatever decade we're talking
about with that Swan Lake production, not everybody.
And I would say to be honest, not a large amount of people in
that company come from a ballet background or at least a ballet
company background. Lots of them might have had like
ballet training and then have just gone down the contemporary
route. But Simon was, you know, one of
the handfuls that would have actually done Swan Lake
classically as well before then doing the contemporary version
of it because he was in the Embi want to say.
That's correct, yes. He trained at Royal Ballet
School, he danced with English National Ballet, and he's done
tons of freelance work. Yeah, Michael Clarke.
Michael Clarke, he's just done something very, very special.
Actually, he was rehearsing at the Opera House, so we were able
to see each other secretly because it was like a secret
rehearsal process for him, because his youngest son
Charlie, also was dancing with him for this Michael Clarke
piece for I think it was for Alexander McQueen.
Oh, yes, yes, yes. And I hope to God that it's out,
otherwise I've just ruined you. I.
Think I I've seen Simon now Cher on social media that him and his
son and yeah. Yeah, I sort of post something
and I just thought, Oh my God, I hope that's the thing.
So they were rehearsing. So when we were performing
Giselle and we were in the building, in the dressing room,
they were still rehearsing. So I would sneak upstairs, have
a quick squeeze peek through the window.
So that was really, really lovely.
So, yeah. And we're so excited to have him
work with us at the Dancers Studio.
I can't wait. It's going to be a great.
Day, I mean, and just hopping back to your Giselle story.
I mean, you love Giselle, like we have a big fascination and
love and respect for Giselle. So that must be really, really
nice for you to be a part of. Yeah, I, I've just always loved
the the, I mean, it's tragic, of course, but the romanticism and
the, and the balletic style of it.
And it's just, I could listen to that, the music all the way
through, particularly Act 2, and just, and just sit there and,
and just enjoy it and listen to it.
And, and also a great treat and privilege of being at the Opera
House so frequently is seeing all of these stars and, and, you
know, having time with Alexandra Ferry.
And just there's a very, very funny moment where I think it
was in February, early February, the company were doing wolf
works and I was there with my lovely friend Kelly and we got
talking to two people that were sat next to us that we'd only
met in the interval because it was so that we'd that we'd met
sorry, but only spoke to to them during the interval, but they
were seated next to us because it was so overwhelmingly
beautiful. The mute, everybody was crying.
It was a really surreal experience because I'd not seen
Wolf Works for a long time and the first time I saw it, I
didn't have that reaction. But this time, whether it was
the conductor, I don't know, but everybody was in tears.
It was so emotional and beautifully.
So anyway, my point is Rain. Rain was also there with his
partner, but they were sat kind of opposite.
And so we went for a glass of champagne in the in the
interval, one of the intervals. And on the way from our seat to
the bar, my friend Kelly was with me.
She's a fantastic makeup artist. And I was just explaining to
her. The first time I saw Wolf works
was with with Alessandra Fairy, who's one of my favorite
ballerinas. We get to meet Rain at the bar
and I literally look, the person in front of me is Alessandra
Fairy. Oh my God.
So I kind of nudge Kelly and I go, Oh my God, that is honey,
Sandra Ferry. And then she turned around.
He turns around and I just said, because we see each other at the
Opera House, but I've never stopped to speak to her.
But she was literally right in front of me.
So I just explained, Oh, my God, I said, it's so lovely to meet
you. I was just telling and told her
when I just told Kelly. And then Rain was facing away at
the bar and I tapped him on the shoulder and I went, Rain,
darling, look who it is. Because he was expecting like
somebody from the company, but somebody that he was familiar
with. He turned around and grabbed
her, kissed her on the cheek and went, oh, hi, because he was so
caught off guard. But she just embraced it.
She was, she was fantastic. But it was, that was a special
moment just within itself. But it made me laugh.
But yeah, Giselle and thinking about her and, and, and the
music and being on stage, you know, was really, really, really
special. And I'm so, I'm so thrilled that
I was a part of it. Fantastic.
That's so cool. That's so cool.
So I wanted things have happened since we last recorded and one
major thing that happened. Is I've had my hair.
Cut. You've had your hair, Cut,
you've got glasses. And it kind of looks like I'm
interviewing Christian. What's his name?
Project Catwalk? Project Runway?
Christian Siriano. Is that his name?
That's who you look like right now on this kind.
Of on Madonna from the Rain video he's got like.
No, it's, it's, it's like Christian's Christian Siriano, I
think his name. Anyway, Because I kind of feel
like like that's not a compliment.
Project Runway Christian, you say, if I get an image.
Oh no. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh my God, yes. Especially right now, you're
looking dead on in the camera. Yeah, I see it I whether I
there's a picture here, Ashley. It.
Looks like when you first walked into Swan Lake rehearsals.
I don't know if you can. That is what I look like when I
first walked into Swan Lake. Not exactly what you look like.
Oh my God. How funny.
Anyway, random side note, yes, during our break, the whole
Timothy Chalamet thing kicked off Timothy Chalamet and I
actually even during our face times in our break, you and I
haven't actually discussed this at all.
It was just a bit strange really.
And it's my first reaction. I don't need to explain what
happened. Everybody knows what happened.
My first reaction when I heard what he said was stupid young
Gen. Z person not understanding that
we're all in this together. Kind of like even if you are a
film actor and yes, you do not want, you don't have any
interest in going and watching an opera or going and watching a
ballet. That's your choice.
Your what you would like to go watch.
It was just a very big statement to say that they're dying art
forms and I don't want to be part of something that's dying.
And it would just felt like we're all struggling kind of to
put it together with like why we have pride for LGBTQ, Why it's
not just the gays together, the lesbians by themselves.
We are all together because we're we're we're together.
We are stronger. And it's that whole kind of
thing about like with with plays, with acting, with opera,
with ballet, with classical music, with all this kind of
stuff together we are stronger. We should support each other and
support the arts. And it just felt very selfish
and uneducated and stupid to kind of just pitch about another
part of the arts and culture. And just because you're part of
art has become so commercialized that you earn millions and
millions and millions of dollars, not everybody in your
side of culture acting as itself, but also acting in TV,
acting in films, not everybody in that side of the industry
earns millions and millions and millions of dollars.
It just felt very yeah, uneducated and yes, selfish is
all I can think of to describe it really.
I mean, people that in the industry definitely kicked off
and quite rightly so. I mean, I felt it was just such
an immature, redundant comment to to throw ballet in
particular, an opera under the bus when, like you've just said,
he's part of our creative world. And, you know, there are images
that were quickly put up on socials where, you know, he's
been seen wearing a New York City Ballet baseball cap like,
oh, yeah, a couple of years ago. And it's another actress, I
think. Was it Charlize Theron, maybe,
who I love, by the way. And she's had her hair cut into
a gorgeous, like, Bob. She looks at me anyway.
Oh, yeah. She looks gorgeous, but she's
gorgeous. She said something along the
lines of if anybody's, you know, creative art form is is at risk,
It's it's his. It's acting through AI.
Like you can't generate dance in the live forum or opera.
So it was just a really immature thing to say.
And it did. It did put me off him because I
love Call Me By Your Name, which stars him and Armie Hammer.
It's a beautiful gay love story and I've loved that film, but
now I'm a little bit reluctant to kind of rewatch it because
he's kind of tainted the perception.
And also it's an art house. That's an art house film that
actually wasn't a very mainstream film.
And it's, so it's already, it's a bit like, well, actually what
you're doing. Well, back then was also a bit
fringe. And not everybody goes to see
it. And I don't know it really, it
ruffled a lot of feathers. And I really understand why it
ruffled feathers because it was, yeah, like you say, immature but
uneducated. And I mean, I, I don't know what
is true or stuff, but. But I've also heard that his
mother was a dancer. So it also seems a bit weird for
him to make a comment when his mum was a dancer.
It's so silly. So, so silly.
And in some ways, though, we came out of it very well because
then our community stood up and, and voiced their, our opinions
and it actually gave us some leverage in terms of social
profile of the arts. So it actually worked.
And, and that definitely was not his intention.
It wasn't some clever marketing strategy.
He he had a he had a poor moment and I think he had to check
himself to be to be honest and lost some.
But it did, it ended up working in our favour because so many
people came out of the woodwork supporting.
Especially because he's specifically named ballet and
opera. Lots of people came out of the
woodwork supporting ballet and opera.
The ballet companies themselves put so much stuff on the social
media. Everybody share, everyone was
sharing and re sharing to just see Hampi.
I did, yeah. Happy Giving a speech before one
of the Scottish Ballet performances was fantastic.
Hi, Happy. Yeah, I mean, it was it was
crazy, but I exactly what you said.
I'm very glad that everybody stood up and was like, excuse
me, what you're saying is wrong and we need to support.
And yeah, so I ended up shoving us into the limelight, which is
great. Great.
And he's gone very quiet. So he needs to just rethink if
you have a social platform on that at that scale, you have to
be very mindful. And you know, if we want to play
devil's advocate, we can give him the benefit of the doubt,
but he knows better. And it was, it was such a, a
wasteful airtime moment when he could have said the exact
opposite to promote the arts. I mean, like we are part of the
same family. So I don't know what was going
through his mind. Maybe he was, you know how some
people show off and get cocky? Like it was almost like a an
acting out moment. It felt a bit like a bromance
thing. He was sat there with Matthew
McConaughey, so I don't know if it felt like he needed to grow
up or kind of be a bit all in front of this older, well
respected actor. So I feel like.
Oh yeah, no ballet and opera, mate, you know what I mean?
Sit down. Yeah.
But like you said, you know, when you do have a platform, I
mean, we have a very small platform on this podcast, but
you know, I, I am aware of what is coming out of my mouth and
yes, OK, it is my opinion and I'm allowed to have my opinion.
But I also, there are certain things that I'm not going to say
on a microphone. There are certain things that
even if I think them, I'm not going to say them on a recorded
podcast. I'm going to say to you on
normal FaceTime and have a gossip and a bitch.
There is a place and a time for everything.
And when you're in the public eye, not that we are in the
public eye, but you know what I mean?
You need to know what you're saying and know what you're
putting out there because it affects things, you know, to to
a degree, what we say on this podcast where we've discussed
body image is going to affect people who are in the dance
world and are suffering from eating disorders or body
dysmorphia, all this kind of stuff.
Things that we speak about are being listened to, whether it's
by one person, 20 people, 500,000 people.
It affects people what they hear.
So yeah. Yeah, we have to be mindful and
we have to be responsible for what what we share.
And yes, we like to improvise some conversations on here for
example, but then they're still mapped out and guided because
you for those reasons, you absolutely have to be
responsible if you're sharing something so publicly.
And it's it's mind blowing that his publicist didn't prepare
him. I mean, obviously he or she
can't read his mind and that maybe was an unplanned comment,
but. There was no reduction.
There was no reduction anything straight away after.
No follow up or it was peculiar. But anyway, enough about
Timothy. But the only thing I wanted to
say was was also just, I know he mentioned Bally and Opera, but
like, you know, because I had very recently seen the Wonka
movie because I have not seen many things with him in, to be
honest. And I had recently just seen the
Wonka movie. And there is so much dance in
that movie and there is so much classical music in that movie
that I thought, do you really think that you're the only
person in your movie? In your own movies, there is
ballet. In your own movies, there is
classical music. Like what?
What are you talking about? Your movie isn't just you.
There is a million people behind you.
Yeah, Timothy. You're grounded.
Go to your room. So something I want to quickly
discuss on here before we say goodbye, something else that
happened during during our break, but has been an ongoing
conversation for the past 15 years, I think is Neppo, Neppo
babies, Neppo children. And it came up because Kate
Winslet's son just wrote a story that has become a movie and she
made a flippant comment. Again, it's a flippant comment.
And and that just said like, it was so good, it would have been
made anyway. No matter who I was.
I didn't help him. My kids have carved their own
journey, their own jobs, that my kids have carved their own way
into this industry, which is a completely fine thing to say.
This is not a bitching about Kate Winslet episode, but I will
say from someone who has come from a background of you know
there is a big difference between having a single mum
being a nurse bringing you up and you trying to find jobs and
work in this industry to someone who is a multi millionaire from
Hollywood. Firstly, I I even had it in my
year group. There were people in my year
group who were not daughters of Kate Winslet but had very well
off parents who would rent them an apartment in London and so
they could spend their time going to auditions and open
classes. Whereas when I moved to London,
like quite a lot of people, I have to pay my own apartment out
of my own money. My mother could not mother, my
mom could not pay for my apartment, so I had to work at
ZZS in Canary Wharf to be able to pay my rent, pay for my
classes, and at some time in between all of that, have time
to go to auditions. Now, obviously that puts you in
a situation where you're not as in shape maybe as some of the
rich kids because they're going to class every single day and
you can't afford to do that. And also you cannot go to every
single audition because you have to work.
That's one side of it. The other side of it that's not
discussed with these nepo babies, fine, let's say that we
don't give them any money. You still know how the industry
works. You still know as Kate Moss,
Kate Winslet or the Kates. You know that at a certain age
you have to get an agent. Then your agent will do this for
you. Then you need a manager to do
this. You know how the industry works.
You can teach your your kids how the game is played, whether you
introduce them to people or not. That's also another
conversation. If let's just say you're giving
them nothing, you still know how it works and you will have
taught them that. I did not know when I graduated
that there was such a thing as big as we spoke about this
podcast before, as there's such a thing as a freelance ballet
dancer working at Glenn Born Opera in summer.
And you know I didn't. I knew there was being a dancer
in a ballet company and that's about it.
I didn't know how the industry worked.
I didn't know all this kind of stuff.
And having someone, having your own parent be able to show you
the ropes of the industry is a step up and it's not a bad
thing. But ignoring that it's there I
think is. I think it's a bit silly because
it's an obvious step up that you have been able to help your
child and it's not a bad thing, but it is a thing.
And then obviously introducing them to the right people at
parties, introducing them to your agent, helping them that
get that leg up in the industry is a big thing.
Whether you're, you're not introducing them to Steven
Spielberg at a party, but you being able to get their CV into
an onto an agent's desk, onto a manager's desk, into APR
company's desk is a massive step.
Like we spoke about on this podcast before, I have sent my
CV and my photographs my entire career to agents and 99.9% of
the time I have never got a reply.
And I've had 20 years in this industry and I have a hell of
ACV behind me. So just because you're not
giving them money doesn't mean they don't have a leg up in the
industry. And I agree with all of that.
I think it's it's layered or it's tiered rather, because in
order for the parents to be influential and to aid their
child or children, they generally come from a successful
high profile, which in turn generates high income.
So I think the money, the money situation aside, having access
to money is always helpful, full stop, right?
End of episode. Roll credits.
So yes, having access to to wealth is always going to make
life easier in some respects and simpler.
But in term of nepotism, I let's say Kate Winslet, I think you're
being too generous. I think potentially she she is
introducing her child to Steven Spielberg.
It's it's that obvious. And yes, C VS are landing on
desks and and little notes are attached to say, you know, from
Kate. I'm so sorry, Kate, we're using
you as an example, but you did voice this publicly yourself.
So This is why you're you're part of the episode.
But, but it happens frequently, but it's the access from the
parent that is getting the child into the profession, said
profession of parents or similar creative profession, whether
it's fashion or or film. And you have to acknowledge that
it is a great leg up and it is an enormous advantage.
So for her to say that was a little bit ignorant because, but
I also believe she's very proud of her child.
And maybe her interpretation was he would have succeeded with or
without me. But that is not the point.
The point is he does have you and you do get special access
and that's the entire point. Without you, he may never have
had the access and therefore. Exactly because her argument is
he's very, very talented. He would have made it anyway.
But sadly, Kate, as you well know, there are hundreds of
fantastic actors, fantastic ballet dancers, fantastic opera
singers, fantastic songwriters, fantastic artists, the list
could go on that never are in the right place at the right
time. And you were in a very lucky
position to put your son in the right place at the right time.
Yes, yes. If he had no talent then you
putting him in the right place would not have helped.
Yeah. So yes, it's not taken away from
he's talented, however it did help him.
And also, just to finish on this one point, talent, sometimes you
have to show, show up and fulfil the job description.
Otherwise it's very clear and obvious that you're not capable.
But I'm pretty certain there are many, many people that are given
opportunities that don't stand up and don't have the right
skills because of their parents or of their connections.
It happens all, it happens all the time, right?
So, you know, so let's not, let's not pretend you know, that
doesn't happen because it happens far too frequently.
But when you've got mega star, you know, parents behind you, of
course you're going to get that privileged higher access.
It's just, it was just silly for her to deny it, I think because.
Because it even happened. Just own it.
Exactly. Just own it.
Thanks to. Me.
Thanks to me, I've managed to open so many doors.
But he does have the skills. Exactly.
You know that would have been a better.
Conversation because it's the same in the ballet world.
There are people who you know. We all know people who have, you
know, who are older than us, who maybe have kids who also have
come into the industry and stuff like that.
And yes, these kids wouldn't be in the industry if they weren't
very, very, very talented. The dance world, you can't not
have the talent you need to be able to do the job on stage.
However, getting in the room because you're mother was Damien
Lee Sturk is going to help you. But you know what I mean?
You have the access to swipe your door and get them into the
audition at the Royal Opera House or whatever it is like.
Go speak to the director. Get done.
Do not tap Alessandro free on the shoulder.
Give her a kiss on the cheek. What did I tell you?
Well Denise, I am so happy to be back recording again.
Oh, me too, and we've Facetimed quite a lot since last recording
Season 3. But it's always nice to get on
the mic and put the world to rights.
Exactly. Now, both of our schedules are
very different and are very flippant, so we cannot promise
our listeners that there will be a new episode every single week
in the coming months. However, we will try our best to
give you a new episode as frequent as possible.
That's right, we will try our very best, but we are very busy
single mothers with three kids trying to keep down a corporate
job at the same time as recording an award-winning
podcast. Have we?
Have we won any awards actually? Yes, the least awarded podcast.
That's right. That's right.
It was with Merrill. Merrill handed the award.
She was very good. She was very, very funny.
The podcast with the least amount of nominations.
Yeah, outstanding. I think I I I heard from one
person. All right, babes, Oh my God,
it's been lovely. Chat again, everybody.
Please share our podcast with your, with your present, with
your fellow dance lovers and we'll be back very soon.
Denise, always a pleasure. It's so lovely to be back with
you all. Lovely chatting Poppy and we'll
get back to it for more episodes and I'm still in shock we're on
season 4. I can't believe.
It I literally cannot believe how many episodes there are out
there. It's it's kind of crazy.
Anyway, Denise, we have to go bye.