1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,920 Hello and welcome to Drinks at the Bar, a podcast where we 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,720 breakthrough the 4th wall and discuss everything about dance 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,400 and the theatre industry. My name is Paul James Rooney, a 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,800 dancer, choreographer and dance teacher based in Copenhagen, and 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,640 I am your host of Drinks at the Bar. 6 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,120 Today I am joined by my regular guest host. 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,640 She may live in West London, but she was Bradford's Carnival 8 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,680 Princess in 1989. Ladies and gentlemen, please 9 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:36,360 welcome Damian Lee Sturck, OH. My God, I always make it a habit 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,360 not to read that part of the script so that it's a complete 11 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,480 surprise, but I was not expecting that. 12 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,720 Hi everybody, I'm Damian Lee Sturck, director of The Dancer's 13 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,240 Studio London, classical ballet teacher and actor with the Royal 14 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,800 Ballet. Here we will discuss everything 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,200 from hearing backstage stories, touring shenanigans, to deeper 16 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,400 issues like body image training, the reality of being a freelance 17 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,200 dancer, and much more. With guest professionals, we are 18 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,000 here to share our knowledge, experience, and help you with 19 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,320 any questions or problems you may have about dance and 20 00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:11,440 navigating the dance world. Well, hello, Denise. 21 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,600 Hello my little treacle tart. I am very excited, so I'm just 22 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,600 going to tell you straight away before I say proper hello to 23 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:19,400 you. OK. 24 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,880 I've been waiting to take a sip and tell you that this week I am 25 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:27,680 drinking a limoncello spritz. Oh, how lovely. 26 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,200 Well, I'll let you know. It's about to happen. 27 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:36,280 I've never, I've never. I've never tried one before 28 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,520 actually. It's not homemade, it is from a 29 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,440 can. Not for Marks and Spencer's, 30 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,400 because sadly, some of us are in Denmark. 31 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:44,840 It's not a Marquis. What is the Marks and Spencer's 32 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,880 equivalent? I mean, there's there's, there's 33 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:52,240 posher supermarkets, but there's also like, you know, the kind of 34 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,240 Selfridges food hall kind of thing, There's that kind of 35 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:56,040 stuff. But like. 36 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:00,280 I've been to the one where I think, well, obviously we went 37 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,640 together, but it's at the top. Is them like a cafe or 38 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:05,320 restaurant and you can look down. 39 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,240 Yeah, I've been there. Which is really, really lovely. 40 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:08,280 I've been there. Yeah. 41 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:09,400 That's Ilum. Yeah. 42 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,760 Yes, Ilum, Yeah, it was about £35 for a pan of chocolate. 43 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:17,560 Yeah. Sounds like Denmark take our 44 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,480 mortgage to have a glass of tap water. 45 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,240 Well love, what are you drinking this week? 46 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:29,520 Well I'm being very dull and I'm currently drinking a citrus and 47 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:34,440 echinacea tea because there are so many bugs going around. 48 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,040 I'm feeling a little bit under the weather and I start 49 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,520 rehearsals this week with English National Ballet Sleeping 50 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:46,680 Beauty so I need to be on top form for my walk on, walk off 51 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,920 appearance. You say dull, I say 52 00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:53,200 professional, so here we go. Cheers. 53 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,480 Cheers, I better not sip too much because I'll burn my 54 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,000 throat. That's tastes. 55 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,360 I was going to say smells. That tastes like a melted solero 56 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,200 or no? The ones in the tube A clippo. 57 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,720 Oh really, Calypso? The lemon Yeah, the lemon 58 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,160 flavour 1 is. It Calypso? 59 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,920 Is it Clippo? Calypso calipo, I think. 60 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,920 I think it's Clippo. No, Calypso is the music. 61 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:26,320 We shall call it Calypsino. The lemon one but melted and put 62 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:27,520 in a glass with a little bit of fizz. 63 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,400 That's what it tastes like. Is it sweet? 64 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,160 Is it very sweet? It's very sweet, I suppose. 65 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,680 Limoncello is sweet, isn't it so. 66 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,920 I would, I would. Well, I have another one in the 67 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:37,960 fridge. We're going to have to do both 68 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,080 today, but I'd prefer to have an apple spritz next time. 69 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,800 But this was a, you know, yes. You never know unless you try. 70 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,080 Exactly, and we're both on the citrus. 71 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,880 It's just that mine's in a tea with echinacea, honey and lemon, 72 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,520 and yours is in a is a. Sparkling alcoholic tea, that's 73 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,120 what it is. I mean, that's not to be sniffed 74 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:57,440 at really, because I mean, maybe it is. 75 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,760 It might smell lovely. But you know what? 76 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,520 It's basically just a LEM sip. That's what it is. 77 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,640 A LEM sip with a shot of vodka. I mean, I'll tell you, we're on 78 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,080 to something. A vodka lem sip and now that is 79 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,520 medicinal. Oh, a gin Lem sip. 80 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,920 Why not? I'll try next week, let you 81 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,839 know. You know, and if it was pre pre 82 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,520 performance, as long as there are no stairs or partner work 83 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:29,400 involved then why not? So E&B you've, well, I was going 84 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,720 to say you've never worked at. E&B you have worked at. 85 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,480 E Yes, yes, way back when, a long time ago, yes, this job 86 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:40,960 came out of the blue and very, very lovely to be asked to be a 87 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,560 part of their Sleeping Beauty tour, so. 88 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,120 Oh Tour. Yeah, so I have. 89 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,480 This week is rehearsals and then next week we're in Liverpool and 90 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,920 then I have two weeks off from English National Ballet where 91 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,720 I'll then be rehearsing something with the Royal Ballet. 92 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:04,280 So Rain, our dear friend, Rain and I, we were asked by the 93 00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:07,720 Royal Ballet, by the director of the Royal Ballet, in fact, if we 94 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:12,680 would like to participate in the Osipova Linberry performances. 95 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,040 So with Natalia Osipova. So we have that coming up in 96 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:17,840 November. It's amazing. 97 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:19,680 It's amazing. I knew already. 98 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,800 Sorry, I can't act that well. I can't act surprised because I 99 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:23,600 knew already. So. 100 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,280 So that came out of the blue, as did Ian B. 101 00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:29,040 So I'm thrilled. Yeah, it's fantastic. 102 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,520 So I had a fitting yesterday with Royal. 103 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,160 I'm going back in for a second fitting tomorrow, start 104 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,320 rehearsals for Ian B on Thursday. 105 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,160 That's amazing. Well, cheers, love and 106 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,520 congratulations on the double job. 107 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:41,680 Amazing. Thank. 108 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:46,040 You but. That's really cool that you, you 109 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,000 know, after working at the world now for a couple, quite a few 110 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,120 shows that you get handpicked to do that. 111 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:52,920 That's really flattering and fantastic. 112 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,560 That's really cool. Yeah, I I'm really, really very, 113 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,360 very happy and excited and can't, I can't wait. 114 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,640 And particularly when you know something comes unexpectedly, 115 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,000 there are no expectations because you're not waiting for 116 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:06,960 that call. You know, like we discussed 117 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,680 doing our audition episode where you're just wait, you're 118 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,560 checking your phone every 5 minutes because you're just 119 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,000 wait. You're wanting them waiting to 120 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,880 hear if you've got the job or if you haven't got the job. 121 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,920 So for something to come completely out of the blue and, 122 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:25,440 and fill a gap where ordinarily I would have been doing my own 123 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,560 workshop. So Sunday just gone. 124 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,400 We have the Lafi Malgade workshop, repertoire workshop at 125 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,560 the Opera House, which was saving success and so that would 126 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,280 have kept me busy. We still have a few more 127 00:06:37,280 --> 00:06:40,040 workshops coming up, but it's lovely to have these two jobs. 128 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:40,760 So thank you. It's. 129 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,920 Really cool. So today we're talking about 130 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,200 being honest. Well, well, well. 131 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,640 Well, our last episode on auditions got me thinking about 132 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:56,640 honesty and the feedback from auditions, for example, that's 133 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,320 what started my brain thinking about areas of the industry 134 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,960 where I feel that we could be a little bit more honest with each 135 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,440 other and it would actually be helpful. 136 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,840 My point being is that I feel that in an audition situation, 137 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,400 let's take that for starters. In an audition situation, the 138 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,680 caster or the director may say to you, oh, thank you very much 139 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,720 for coming, you were great. But we just don't have enough. 140 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,960 We can't hire everybody or whatever it is if they actually, 141 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,440 they did not think that, if they actually thought you do not suit 142 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:36,120 this company at all or you are too short for this production or 143 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,360 your singing is not up to scratch. 144 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,240 I think yes, it might hurt my feelings, but I think it would 145 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,520 actually be very useful to hear this and be told why I didn't 146 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,920 get the job. Absolutely agree. 147 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,360 I mean, you know, going on from what we discussed in last week's 148 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:57,920 episode about honest feedback, whether you've been cut from a 149 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:03,280 casting, an audition or, or it's a positive experience, I think 150 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:08,720 there should be a moment of honesty in order to grow as an 151 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,480 artist. And, you know, we touched upon 152 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:16,200 last week, yes, it can be all consuming if you're taking the 153 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,520 audition or you're taking the casting and you've got a million 154 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,800 things to think about. And but I don't think that 155 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,040 really stands up anymore as an excuse not to have honest 156 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,560 communication with the people that you've asked or invited to 157 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:30,800 see. Yeah. 158 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,480 And obviously what we spoke about last week with sometimes 159 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,200 you don't even get an answer. Yeah, that's a different 160 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,559 discussion and we covered that last week. 161 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,400 What now you are giving an answer. 162 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:45,080 Let's give an honest answer because let's just take a 163 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,880 musical for example. Let's just take where I'm 164 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,640 working, the new theatre where we do 2 musicals every single 165 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,400 season. So you're having two sets of 166 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,480 auditions every single season. And let's just say someone is 167 00:08:55,480 --> 00:09:00,560 coming in every single time we do an audition and we always 168 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:04,200 think they're whatever is not strong enough, whether it be 169 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,280 their dance skills, whether it be their technique, whether that 170 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,320 whether it be that they are too stiff, whether it be that they 171 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,160 Can't Sing, whatever the reason is, that is always the reason. 172 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,800 I think at some point it would be helpful for them and helpful 173 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,360 for us to tell them the truth about why they are not being 174 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,840 picked. Yeah, I absolutely agree. 175 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:28,080 I think it's important to understand the reasoning behind 176 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,800 the no. And obviously I get it, we 177 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,000 cannot tell every single person a reason. 178 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,280 But let's just say we've had a cut and now these people are 179 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,040 coming in to sing. We're on a smaller group now. 180 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:44,120 And when we are telling you that you don't have the job, we could 181 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,160 tell you why because when I've auditioned for places before 182 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:52,200 where it says on the e-mail, if you would like to know more 183 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,760 information or what however they were to, if you would like to 184 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,520 know the reason why we didn't hire you, feel free to contact 185 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,800 us and we'll tell you. They never tell you, not really. 186 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,480 They say, Oh yeah, you weren't right for this production. 187 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,480 So, well, I got that because I didn't get to the job. 188 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:09,840 So like, it's pretty obvious I wasn't right for the production. 189 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:11,760 But why? What was wrong? 190 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:16,000 Especially if you know you fulfil the requirements for the 191 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,400 role. So if you are the right height 192 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,520 and you have the right look, then I'd like to know, was it my 193 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,400 dancing? Is it my singing? 194 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,600 Is it, is it something else? You know what? 195 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:31,200 What could it be that can help me navigate a better audition 196 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,440 for someone else or even return to the to this said company or, 197 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:40,200 or musical or genre so that I grow as an artist without 198 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,760 feeling deflated? It's, you know, productive 199 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,560 criticism is very, very healthy. And I know as dancers 200 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:50,320 especially, we're not great at receiving well, I say that, but 201 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,640 we receive as performers, professional performers, we 202 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:55,800 barely receive any positive feedback. 203 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,200 It's always criticism, but it's all in the delivery. 204 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,040 But I think in that scenario, you know, you're not being 205 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,440 hired. Something hasn't worked out. 206 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,600 Let's let's find out. And it can be a couple of words 207 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,440 like, you know, actually seeing you in the room, you know, you 208 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,440 didn't fit with the rest of the cast or actually you said you 209 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,920 were 5 foot 6, you know, and actually you're 5 foot 10 and 210 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,040 you know, and it doesn't quite work out. 211 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,600 So actually this is the reasoning why it doesn't take 212 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,480 much. But I think based on my own 213 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:30,200 experience, I feel like it's just it's too dismissive because 214 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,320 they've got their minds on their mind on other things, other 215 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,480 elements and. Yeah, the decision has been made 216 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,480 now, so we don't need you anymore. 217 00:11:37,560 --> 00:11:39,040 Exactly. Exactly, really. 218 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,160 So a little bit of, you know, common courtesy and but also to 219 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,920 think of it as something productive for the artist. 220 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,280 Well, exactly. And it's, I think for me, the 221 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,680 reason why I have thought about it is because you know, if you 222 00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:55,680 are going to the same place auditioning over and over and 223 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:58,640 over again, which people do, I'm in Denmark, so it's a small 224 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,480 place. I mean, the dance world is small 225 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:03,880 wherever you go, but like especially in a small country, 226 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,200 it's even smaller. So you know, there are people 227 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,800 that come to the same place and audition every single time and 228 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,720 never get the job. At some point I feel yes, we've 229 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,760 spoke about before that you need to be self aware. 230 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,000 We've said that many times. You have to be self aware that 231 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,880 are you good enough? But also, I think there is a 232 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,800 side of it from the prospective employer or addition holder, 233 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:34,480 caster, whomever to maybe tell them that I'm really sorry, 234 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,400 sweetheart, but you really need to work in your singing because 235 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,280 you're coming every single time to these auditions. 236 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,720 You get through the, I'm not talking about anyone in 237 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,720 particular. You get through the dancing 238 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,040 every single time, let's just say, and then every time you 239 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,720 come to sing, it's a no straight away from us. 240 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,240 So it's a waste of your time and it's a waste of our time. 241 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,600 You need to do something about it. 242 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,800 You need to go and get some singing lessons that would 243 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:57,600 really help everybody in the situation. 244 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,080 It would help the person and it would help us because we're 245 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,600 wasting our time looking at this person if it's the same problem 246 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,160 every single time. Yeah, if nothing's changed since 247 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,120 the last time Jessica auditioned. 248 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,080 The last time Jessica auditioned, she sang Be Our 249 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,320 Guest out of tune yet again, and forgot the text. 250 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:21,080 But there is that part of it of, well, if she doesn't know that 251 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:26,560 she's bad or that's the reason she's not getting cast, then I 252 00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:28,920 don't know. Look, sometimes we don't get 253 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,360 feedback. Sometimes it is just a no, and 254 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,160 that's what that is. But my point being, if we are 255 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:39,200 going to give feedback, it may as well be honest feedback. 256 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:40,800 Otherwise, you're just wasting your breath. 257 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,800 There's no point if you were giving feedback, there is no 258 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,000 point just giving general feedback. 259 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,400 Oh yes, you're just not right for this show. 260 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,280 If you're going to say something that at least say something that 261 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,600 is helpful for both parties. Otherwise it's just wasted 262 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,400 breath. There are also certain people 263 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,480 that come to auditions that we've spoken about this before 264 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,640 that wind you up the wrong way through how they act in an 265 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,960 audition, whether they are brown, nosy or whether they are 266 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,800 being the cut class clown or whether they are asking too many 267 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,240 questions. Whatever the reason, if they do 268 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,800 that at every single audition, I feel like I kind of want to say 269 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,040 that to them when I see them privately. 270 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,120 If I ever see them privately or if they come and take a class 271 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,240 I'm teaching somewhere, I kind of feel like should I, maybe I 272 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:31,600 should. Maybe this is a question for 273 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,480 you, Denise. Should I tell this person that 274 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,160 to be honest, in auditions, one of the big things going against 275 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:41,680 you is how you actually act in the audition? 276 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:43,840 Or is it not my place to say anything? 277 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,480 Because I don't know this person at all. 278 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,000 I've just seen them out and about and they've come to 279 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,800 auditions and they wind you up. Is it my place in my free time 280 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:57,720 to say something or should I just forget about it and never 281 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:02,320 hide them? I think as a leader in the room, 282 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,160 director leader, you know, you're leading the audition. 283 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,760 I think you do have a responsibility to to to lead the 284 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,120 artists in front of you, lead them with what they need to 285 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,960 learn in that environment. But you're also leading by 286 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,440 example. So I think if it's, you know, a 287 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,800 repeat offender where a person's coming in and they're actually 288 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,880 very talented, but they're bravado, which may be a coping 289 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,680 mechanism to get them through an audition scenario because it's 290 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,920 very, very stressful and intimidating. 291 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,080 And I think you just have to judge it. 292 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:38,240 And if there's an opportunity to say, look, you know, we've, 293 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,120 we've loved seeing you today. It wasn't a fit. 294 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:47,760 But if I may offer some advice, you don't need the bravado 295 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,080 because your talent, your skill set is enough. 296 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:58,080 It would be lovely the next time we see you just to embrace the 297 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:04,800 space without the necessity to amp up or camp up the energy, 298 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,600 you know, because we don't need it and we find it quite 299 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,720 distracting and we're worried how you may gel with with the 300 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,320 rest of the performing company. But it's it's so unique, isn't 301 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,000 it? You know, that's not a a 302 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:18,960 general, a generalized conversation. 303 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,560 That's a very specific conversation. 304 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,280 Do you want me to call this person I? 305 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,440 Was going to say, should I just tap them on the shoulder and be 306 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:32,640 like sorry Series 3 episode 518 minutes in. 307 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,760 Or tap them on the shoulder and just say lose the clown nose. 308 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,120 So. The next thing we need to talk 309 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:50,720 about is as a teacher, Honesty in the classroom and honesty, 310 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,880 the honesty that should be there between a teacher and a student. 311 00:16:54,560 --> 00:17:00,600 When we were at school, things were very direct and like we've 312 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,160 discussed many times, there maybe weren't the best 313 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,839 corrections because it was just a group correction for everybody 314 00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:08,119 and that's the correction. There were teaching tools, 315 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,400 weren't there? So that was a big negative. 316 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:15,160 But people were very how you were spoken to was very direct. 317 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,920 Nowadays, because of safeguarding and trying to look 318 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:27,240 after the students well-being, I feel that teachers feel that 319 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,200 they can't be honest with the kid they have. 320 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,040 They've they're trying to protect the kids. 321 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,440 So they're a little bit scared of being too harsh on the child 322 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,120 and whether that's self-inflicted, they're putting 323 00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:43,000 that on themselves or whether it's through the institution and 324 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,680 how the world has changed. They feel like they cannot say 325 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:51,120 what they really want to say. I think we're very close to a 326 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:55,560 time right now or we are in a time right now where we have 327 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,280 gone a little bit too far the other way. 328 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,480 That's what I'm trying to say. I feel that people aren't being 329 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,160 told, yeah, we're not being direct enough. 330 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:10,080 We've overcorrected the problem. Yeah, I, I, I would agree. 331 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,640 I mean, when we were in training, you know, we certainly 332 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,880 received a no frills style of feedback. 333 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,360 It was very direct. This isn't good enough. 334 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,520 Do it again, try it again. You know, it was very common to 335 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,600 be hit by a teacher, you know, to be, to be quite roughly 336 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,720 handled, but that, that is all we knew, right? 337 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,160 And for a very long time it, you know, that style of teaching 338 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,080 existed. Umm, I've certainly been in, in 339 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,200 situations as an observer watching classes where I felt 340 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:46,040 the teacher is terrified to say anything to the student in case 341 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,280 the student marches out and and reports the teacher for saying 342 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:53,880 something offensive, which wouldn't have been, I'm certain. 343 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,400 But because of safeguarding protocols and, and we have 344 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,080 overcorrected that we do need to find a balance of. 345 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,640 And I think if we're specifically discussing teachers 346 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:10,160 training, let's say vocational students who wish to be 347 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,520 professional performers, because of course, if you're teaching 348 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,880 kids that are there on a weekend or once a weekend and they're 349 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,680 not there. Very different situationally. 350 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,440 Different, Absolutely. They're there to have fun. 351 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,240 Yes, discipline is introduced, focus. 352 00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:26,960 But it's a completely different setup. 353 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,440 But you also need these kids to enjoy themselves because you're 354 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,040 making a business on their money. 355 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,880 You need them to come back. It's a whole different game. 356 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,920 It is indeed. Teaching at a vocational school, 357 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,280 these professional students, that's where I mean. 358 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:46,360 Your years at school are brief, whether it's five years lower 359 00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:49,000 school and three years upper school, that's only eight years 360 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,960 to, to, to graduate. If you're lucky to get through 361 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,920 the whole, the whole series of years, you know, some dancers 362 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,760 may find they only have really three years or two years 363 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,600 vocational training. So time is of the essence. 364 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,960 And so there there isn't any time to waste and I feel. 365 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,520 It's OK to be direct without crossing a line. 366 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,640 It's all about the delivery and you know, the choice, the 367 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,840 wording, how you choose to deliver the message that you're 368 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,360 trying to get across. And I think that definitely 369 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:24,600 reflects upon the teacher, the teachers teaching skills. 370 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,760 So maybe maybe we need to look at more programming for teacher 371 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:35,240 support so they find more productive ways to be able to 372 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,840 teach rather than just being panicked and stressed that, Oh 373 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:43,080 my gosh, if they, if you know, if I, if I tell said student, 374 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,440 you know, you're not pointing your feet enough because which 375 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:51,440 is a very, very natural reaction when you see a foot that's not 376 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,640 fully extended. I mean, there's nothing to be 377 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,680 offended by about about it, but you have to be able to say 378 00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,960 you're not pointing your foot enough because you're not 379 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:03,480 pushing whatever reason, rather than saying, you know, why don't 380 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,360 you try? You know, when you do that 381 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:08,760 sotay, why don't you try? We don't have nobody's got time 382 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,480 for that. But but true, that is the thing 383 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,360 when you want to, and I think you nailed it on the head right 384 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:17,120 at the beginning when you said that you've seen it happen and 385 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:21,160 you you think it's because the the teacher is terrified with 386 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,000 the situation. I mean, council culture and all 387 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,640 that kind of stuff. We're in a situation where we 388 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,280 are terrified to be cancelled, terrified to insult, terrified 389 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,600 to, you know, but you need to be able to teach. 390 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,200 You need to be able to. And yes, we are not talking 391 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,680 about we should be shouting again, again, you are a piece of 392 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,240 shit, you know, like it was in the old days. 393 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:40,440 That's not what we're talking about. 394 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,880 We're talking about being able to turn round and say, Jessica, 395 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,920 I've told you 3 times today, I told you yesterday, it's always 396 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,960 a problem. Please step onto a straight knee 397 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,040 when you're doing PK turns APK and our best step onto a 398 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,400 straight knee. If you're giving the same 399 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,520 correction every single day, you cannot give it in a nice, 400 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,400 friendly, happy, happy, happy, pleasant way every single time. 401 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,560 That's not how anything works. That's not how the world works. 402 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,680 You need to be stern, be you. You need to be able to have the 403 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:14,840 opportunity to be stern if you need to without running the risk 404 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,560 of now this child is going to go to their parents or the director 405 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,000 because, oh, Damien was horrible to me. 406 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,920 Because the child, the customer is always right. 407 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,160 The child is always right. So we shouldn't be in a 408 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,280 situation where we're scared to be able to do our job. 409 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,840 I fully agree. It's finding the balance, isn't 410 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,760 it? It's finding a balance of being 411 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,720 able to teach without feeling claustrophobic within that 412 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,200 environment of, well, I can't say this and I can't do that 413 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:43,720 because that is not teaching. I'm sorry. 414 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,600 I've experienced it myself, you know, watching classes, 415 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:52,000 vocational schools and it's, it's, it's not productive, it's 416 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,160 wasting time. But I think again, I would 417 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,280 always go back to, you know, I always remember how was I 418 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,280 taught, you know, what did, what can I take, what can I take from 419 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:03,960 that? What did I learn from that 420 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,600 experience? And what and what do I not want 421 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,960 to replicate? And you have to find your own 422 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,520 balance of teaching. It's very teaching is an 423 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,040 extremely layered and complicated role because you're 424 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,400 you're always thinking about a million things at the same time. 425 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,360 We've spoken about this on numerous occasions, but you're 426 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:28,040 leading the classroom, but you're not just leading a class 427 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:32,040 and delivering information that, you know, hope comes back to you 428 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,280 executed well. You know, you're communicating 429 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,520 with your pianist, you're checking your time. 430 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,160 You've got to make sure that everybody's safe in that space 431 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,040 working correctly. But also at the end of their one 432 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,680 2-3 years of training, you're responsible for how they the 433 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,520 outcome, the outcome, how they arrive in, what standard they 434 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,000 arrive at. Yeah, the standard they are what 435 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:56,840 their school set. What do they have at the end of 436 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,040 the education? Yeah. 437 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,720 Which is why it's infuriating when there are so many people 438 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,720 who think they can teach because they can dance. 439 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,440 But that's, again, that's a whole. 440 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,440 I'm going to need another tea. But but it's it's, it's, it's 441 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,240 the thing about being able to be honest with the student. 442 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:17,560 And I think it's really important. 443 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:22,120 Now everybody has their own way of teaching the way I that works 444 00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:27,080 for me to be able to say what I want to say because I'm, I'm 445 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,240 hired to teach you. So I'm going to tell you what I 446 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,440 think or whatever, right? But the way I do, I like to have 447 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,480 a hard working classroom, but have like already a little bit 448 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,560 of humour in my class. Like from my side, not as like 449 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,760 I'm the class clown, but like the way I talk sometimes and be 450 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,480 very, very relaxed in the, my tone of voice. 451 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,320 And that makes sense and making the environment so that when I 452 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:55,320 get to the corner and Jessica comes across the goes across the 453 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,240 diagonal and I and I, I don't know, give her a correction, 454 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:00,720 whatever. And then she goes back and does 455 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,800 it again. If when she turns around to me 456 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,840 and goes, was it better? I turn around and go, no, not at 457 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,080 all. Because I've already created 458 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:16,200 before that a kind of a funny sarcastic classroom safe space. 459 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,600 So that when I'm saying actually, you know what, if 460 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,640 anything was a bit worse, she knows that I'm being honest with 461 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,600 her, but I'm not being horrible. We are now on a not on a friend 462 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:28,600 level. That's not what I'm trying to 463 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,600 say, but you know what I mean? Like there's a trying to take 464 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,560 down the, the, the barriers between teacher and students so 465 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:40,040 that I can be honest with you and you not see it as an insult 466 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,040 or something be like, actually, you know what, do it again, come 467 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,320 on. And then I can also say to her 468 00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:49,880 the next time she goes to the other side, I'm like, oh, so we 469 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,040 thought about it to the right, but the left, we just decided 470 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,680 not to think about it. And I say in a jokey way because 471 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,800 she knows her sense of humour in the classroom. 472 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,320 You've built that those building blocks of the relationship so 473 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,040 that you can be honest if. That makes sense. 474 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,680 It makes perfect sense. And I think, you know, Jessica 475 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,600 may respond to that, but somebody else in the class may 476 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,080 not respond that way. Exactly why we as teachers, we 477 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,040 have to be able to adapt in the way we deliver, you know, a 478 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,880 message and we could be delivering countless messages, 479 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,200 feedback, corrections, whatever way you want to put it in 480 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,720 different ways, in different styles, because we have to, 481 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,280 that's what that's a portion of what makes a good teacher. 482 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,280 We do have to be relatable. They are looking at us for 483 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,400 direction and to lead. And if that's a way, if that's a 484 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,360 way that can kind of relieve stress and break the ice a 485 00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:44,080 little bit and, and can make a student more responsive than 486 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,840 absolutely, you have to do, you have to try and do what works, 487 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,400 you know, in in your own classroom. 488 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,560 But yeah, I totally agree. You know, and some, I think most 489 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,520 students actually would welcome feedback. 490 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,600 And I say feedback and not criticism. 491 00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:05,720 I think feedback is a better way to think about it because even 492 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,720 productive, and I've used this term already in, in this very 493 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,720 episode, you know, I think as adults or professional dancers, 494 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,640 we can take, we understand constructive criticism. 495 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,880 But I think when you're dealing with younger students, 496 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,960 vocational level students, it's, it's the delivery of the 497 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,240 feedback which can be more productive because, you know, 498 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:25,640 they're going through a tough time. 499 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,120 Hormones are changing, yeah. They're teenagers. 500 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,400 They're away from home, you know, they're not fully evolved 501 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,280 human beings. So it's, you know, it's already 502 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,320 a stressful environment. You don't know what mood they're 503 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:37,360 going to be in when they're walking. 504 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:40,360 They're probably exhausted as well because they're working 505 00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:43,560 very, very hard. So there's a lot to navigate, 506 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,560 but I think you know the key. The key feature of this episode 507 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,720 is honest feedback. The reason why I say that about, 508 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,720 let's just keep on saying Jessica coming from the corner, 509 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,200 stepping onto a bent leg. The reason I bring it up is 510 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,120 because I hear it from guest teachers or I see it around me, 511 00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:04,120 or I see someone's reaction to me giving them some honest 512 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:07,240 feedback. No one is getting anything out 513 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,160 of me telling Jessica that it was better when it wasn't better 514 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,480 just because she is sweating and I can see that she's trying. 515 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,680 If you can see that she's working hard and she's trying to 516 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,840 do it, you say that. Say it. 517 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,840 That's why I'm saying be honest. Because if you look at the 518 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,920 situation and Jessica's correction is still not working, 519 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,000 she's still not thinking about that stretched knee. 520 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:34,840 There's no point saying yes, it was better. 521 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,680 But if she was working and she's sweating and you can see that 522 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,640 she is trying something, you can say, I can see you're working. 523 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,960 Be honest. I can see you're working really 524 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:46,280 hard. I can see you're thinking about 525 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,280 lots of different things. That knee is still not 526 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,080 stretching, sweetheart. Actually, you're still not doing 527 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,320 the correction that I'm going after, but I can see that you 528 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,200 were trying. Now it's your job as a teacher 529 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,960 to help them. Yeah, I mean, honest feedback is 530 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,920 going to help a student, you know, identify strengths and 531 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,600 areas for improvement. So the goal is improvement, 532 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,680 right? So anything that can support 533 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,640 that, we're here for it. But again, delivery is key. 534 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,000 I think in this day and age, it's more about the delivery, 535 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,400 which is why we're discussing honesty, because you have to be 536 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,200 honest, but you also have to deliver in a way that is 537 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,920 positive. Because gone, well, I say gone 538 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,440 are the days where, you know, teachers would scream and slap 539 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,440 and hit, but I don't think they they have gone completely. 540 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,320 But I think there's certainly more care surrounding 541 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,440 institutions. And we are in a time where I see 542 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,720 on teachers and I feel it myself sometimes that can I say this, 543 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,680 are you going to react? Because sadly, and it's not me 544 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,800 because I don't have any kids, but their kids arrive at 545 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,960 institutions in bubble wrap and haven't maybe been told off 546 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,680 before or haven't maybe been given any stern feedback before 547 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,960 from whether it's their home life, whether it's their primary 548 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,880 school, whether whatever it is, they come to me. 549 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:11,520 And I feel like it's the first time they've ever been told no 550 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,440 or they've never been given a stern, actually, no, it wasn't 551 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,640 good, you know what I mean? That kind of thing. 552 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,600 I feel like they're coming to our schools not ready 553 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,000 emotionally. Yes, and that's a whole other 554 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,960 issue, isn't it? So parents out there. 555 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,240 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I 556 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,640 would imagine that. I mean my experience, and I'm 557 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,240 sure it's similar to your experience. 558 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,600 You know, I trained before moving to London for vocational 559 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,000 school at Ian BS. You know, I trained locally with 560 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,640 Dorothy Stevens and she was very old school, but she wasn't mean. 561 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:51,080 She was a prime example of being direct, no frills, but she 562 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,920 delivered her message with care because she cared so much about 563 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,960 all of her students. But, you know, and my mother, my 564 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,560 mother was to anybody who came to watch, you know, parents were 565 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,600 allowed to watch my, my mother, my, my granddad. 566 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,720 They would sometimes come in and watch, you know, and wait for me 567 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,360 rather than driving all the way back home and then coming back 568 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,360 to collect me. And they'd be terrified of her 569 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,960 because she had such a presence. But she was never mean and I 570 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,720 would say yes, she was stern, but she was still, I know, kind. 571 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,360 You could tell it was born out of kindness while still being 572 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,240 stern. And maybe that, you know, that's 573 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,920 a counter, counter opposed wording, but. 574 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,160 No, it's not, because Stern isn't me. 575 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,600 Yeah, she certainly wasn't that. May she rest in peace. 576 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,200 And she, she really, I think without realizing it now as a 577 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,840 teacher, she really, she was, she was leading the class 578 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,680 certainly. And you know, we learn from 579 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,680 example, don't we? We learn by example. 580 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,680 She was my example. So I'm so grateful to take that 581 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,640 away, you know, with me, to carry that with me as a teacher. 582 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,200 But I am, I'm, I'm, I wouldn't even say I was stern. 583 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,800 Actually, I'm, I'm kind, I'm a kind teacher, but I am a direct 584 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,840 teacher as a you, you know, this is this is what we need to 585 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,560 achieve. Let's not waste any time. 586 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,840 But I'm certainly not going to put you in a position where you 587 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:16,000 feel attacked or or or or stressed because we can't 588 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,920 operate, we can't move under those, you know, circumstances. 589 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,360 Exactly. And another thing. 590 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,720 Before we bypass completely what we just touched upon there with 591 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,600 the kids coming to the school parents and blah, blah, blah, 592 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,360 all that kind of thing. Luckily I don't have to deal 593 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,520 with it, but through people I know who do work in those 594 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,720 institutions, parents being able to talk to parents. 595 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,720 And there are parents who ask the teachers, why didn't my 596 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,200 child get an A in her dance exam or why didn't I get into the 597 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,080 summer show? Why am I not the lead in this? 598 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:03,000 Why did I not get The Apprentice job and Jessica did or whatever 599 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,280 it is. Parents ask questions in these 600 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,560 parents teacher consultations as they're supposed like that's 601 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,080 what they're there for, to understand their child's 602 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,520 education. But I know from people I know 603 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,800 that they don't feel that they can be honest because the parent 604 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,480 will kick off, you know, that whole kind of pushy dance mum 605 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,680 thing. What are you doing to my child? 606 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,640 My child is better than you teach the ballet. 607 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,720 You know what I mean? If you're coming here and you're 608 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,640 you're asking why did my child not get such and such, you have 609 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,880 to be ready to hear the truth from the teacher. 610 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,720 Certainly if you're if you're asking a question, be prepared 611 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,840 to receive an answer that may not be the answer you want, you 612 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,360 know? That's what honesty is and 613 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,480 that's how it that's how we should as teachers be able to do 614 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,640 our job. If a parent is asking us, why 615 00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,920 did she not get this? And if the reason was she's 616 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,960 lazy, she's too short. What? 617 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,240 Again, honestly, whatever the reason, it doesn't matter what 618 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,960 the reason is. Tell the truth and we should be 619 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,080 able to tell the truth without feeling that the parents going 620 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,719 to throw it in our face and be like, oh, but I thought Bethany 621 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,320 was much worse than Jessica. And but all this kind of drama 622 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,840 that happens at these parent teacher consultations, like 623 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,679 whether Bethany in your eyes is better than your daughter, it 624 00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:29,120 does not matter. You ask this teacher their 625 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,000 opinion. You have trusted your child's 626 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,520 education with this teacher. Let the teacher do their job. 627 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,760 If Bethany got the role because Bethany was the best for the 628 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,360 role. You have to be able to support 629 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,400 the teacher and support the school in their decisions 630 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,639 because all they're doing here is preparing the child for the 631 00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:53,080 outside world and this is going to happen in the outside world. 632 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,120 Bethany's going to get a job and you're not going to get a job 633 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:56,440 and you have to be able to cope with it. 634 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,360 You cannot have mummy and daddy running up to the teacher in the 635 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,160 school and bitching about it because that's not helping. 636 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,600 That's not helping your child. You complaining that other 637 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,040 people have got the role and questioning your teach, the 638 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,120 teacher's decision and questioning this prestigious 639 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:13,640 dance school that you've sent them to. 640 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,760 What are you getting out of it? What is your not you, your 641 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,040 child? What is your child getting out 642 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,680 of that? Your child is not being aided in 643 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,520 any way by you arguing her way into the show. 644 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:32,640 Let's just say we need to be able to do our job as teachers 645 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:35,320 yet again. And I'm sure that happens on 646 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,480 many, many occasions because, you know, the parents aren't 647 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:43,760 there to see the progress or lack of, of their child, you 648 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,320 know, So a good dialogue between parent and teacher, a healthy 649 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,280 dialogue is what's going to be the most productive. 650 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:56,000 You know, for example, why isn't so and so in the Allegro section 651 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,640 of the class presentation this year, teacher may bond with 652 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,160 well, you know, we've assessed every student as we usually do 653 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:07,000 and we find said student isn't quite strong enough or doesn't 654 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,960 quite have the skill set to execute this quite extensive 655 00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:14,600 Allegro section in the class presentation. 656 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:19,480 However, we would like to work with said student, either 657 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,760 extracurricular hours or we have a support system set up already 658 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,400 so that we can at least try to manage and get the progression 659 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,600 of this student up and running. So that next presentation class 660 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,160 we have said student will be back with us, you know, fully 661 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,360 functioning and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 662 00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:41,560 That takes time and I'm sure it's exhausting to consider per 663 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,920 each student. You know, however, that is 664 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,200 training, that is teaching, that is leading, that is progression. 665 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,800 So, but yeah, it must be annoying when parents are like, 666 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,760 you know, complaining when they have no real concept of of 667 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,640 what's what's going on, you know, And also, I'm sure I like 668 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,760 you. I am not a parent, but I'm sure 669 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,600 that, you know, you would feel like your child is the best 670 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,920 because it's your child. Of course, we're not under any, 671 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,240 you know, illusion of of course, but that you have to have some 672 00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:18,280 reality because we're trying to prepare these kids for the 673 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,240 future and a future in dance is ruthless. 674 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,760 It's it's never the dancers, it's never the parents who know 675 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,480 anything about dancing that act like that. 676 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,360 It's never an ex dancer or an ex actor or an ex singer who acts 677 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,360 like that with their child. It's your dental hygienist and 678 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,440 the dad who's a lawyer or you know what I mean? 679 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,240 It's the people who have nothing to do with the dance world that 680 00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:42,040 I like that with their kids. And you kind of like, oh, I'm 681 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:42,800 sorry. Yeah. 682 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,160 Do I lie there in the chair and tell you that you're not 683 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,960 cleaning my teeth properly? You probably would. 684 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,680 Do I walk into court and start like no I don't, You don't know 685 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,680 how to do my job, hence the fact that you have hired me to do 686 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,720 this job. Yeah, you have to have trust in 687 00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:02,880 the institution, but but the the institution has to be honest. 688 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,320 It has to give an honest representation of growth and 689 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,480 progression. Because it's the only way that 690 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,840 helps everybody involved. Yeah, otherwise it is a waste of 691 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,880 time and it's A and it's and it's too expensive to be a 692 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,000 hobby. It is. 693 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,960 It is just with the auditions and with this, with education. 694 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:31,120 Nobody is getting anything out of you lying or giving 1/2 assed 695 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:36,160 reason or correction. Honesty is the only way anyone's 696 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,240 going to get any better or we're going to hire the right people 697 00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:44,400 or we're going to go forward. The only way forward is to be 698 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,920 able to be in a situation where we, we as the student, we as the 699 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:52,200 auditionee, are willing to accept honesty and that the 700 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,760 panel or the teacher or whoever feel that they are in a safe 701 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,440 enough space that they can be honest and it's not going to be 702 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,080 thrown at their face or they're suddenly going to be cancelled 703 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,960 for whatever reason. We need to be able to do our 704 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,640 job. Yes, it's far too, it's far too 705 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,840 complicated as it is with all of those obstacles. 706 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,640 But I think just just to finish, an ideal scenario would be in 707 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,600 the studio, a teacher who has the skill set to deliver 708 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:30,360 positive, constructive feedback to a child in this case, who has 709 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:35,760 been raised by a parent or a guardian that understands the 710 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:40,200 importance of positive feedback. You know, my mom certainly told 711 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:41,920 me. Listen to what Miss Stevens 712 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,840 tells you every time. Right, Damien? 713 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,040 You know, I'd get in the car and she'd say, you know, have you 714 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,440 practiced what you know? Right, put on your lycra katsu 715 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,840 again. Listen your little. 716 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,400 Because I've got to take your brother to football, sit outside 717 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,280 in the rain and watch him play 5A side football. 718 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:01,880 So you get in there and point your toes. 719 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:03,360 Like you've never pointed before. 720 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:10,240 Oh, I miss those days. But also just on the side of 721 00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:13,080 that, I have to say, being honest is what we're talking 722 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,280 about here. So same thing happens here with 723 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:20,880 a positive feedback. I, I still for the life of me 724 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,400 don't understand why more teachers don't give positive 725 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,600 feedback. I, I don't get it because I 726 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,160 can't, I'm not that gay man that goes to a concert, hears someone 727 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,240 singing and goes yes. But it is that feeling you get 728 00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:35,320 when you're a teacher and someone does something really 729 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,680 good across the classroom. I go yes, good. 730 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,680 I can't be the only person who to celebrate that. 731 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,440 Yeah, I can't be the only teacher that feels that like so 732 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,400 I don't understand teachers that don't see something be like, 733 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,840 yes, Peter Good or whoever. I think or the natural, the 734 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,960 natural evolution of a teacher. You know, we, we come from a 735 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,640 professional background, usually, not always. 736 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,480 You can also do your vocational training and graduate and go 737 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,040 straight into teaching, of course. 738 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:09,760 But we're so used to having that background of we only spend time 739 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,600 discussing what's wrong. We never discuss or talk about 740 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,600 or bring up what's gone right because again, we don't have 741 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,480 time. It's we, we, we're trying to 742 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,040 improve. And that stems from school well 743 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,200 into professional. I mean, you know, I think about 744 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,280 our time on tour when I know I was sat in the auditorium with a 745 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,600 microphone saying you're too fast stage left or, you know, 746 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:40,560 where's or where's Poppy? She's not here yet. 747 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,120 Somebody get me her. Get her on the phone. 748 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,320 Oh. My God. 749 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,360 You know, we're, we're, we're so consumed about, you know, let's 750 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:56,520 make this the best show we can. And I think we're so used to 751 00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,040 that mindset that even in the schooling, it's, it's the same 752 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,160 intensity. Let's create the best execution 753 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,560 of each step as we can. Because we're getting you ready 754 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:10,160 for a career in live performance in dance or singing or whatever 755 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,840 it may be. And the culture is. 756 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,640 We do not celebrate. Occasionally we may say what a 757 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,720 fantastic opening night, but you don't really get much in terms 758 00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:24,040 of positive it complements it not at. 759 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,600 All I could probably count on one hand how many times in my 760 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,440 professional career I've got a good personally to me. 761 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,760 Yeah. And it's, it's sad, isn't it? 762 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:36,480 And we have to be, but we have to, we have to change that 100%. 763 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,120 We have to make that shift, you know, which is why we're 764 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:40,320 discussing. Well, exactly. 765 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,240 That's why we're discussing it. So that's one of my things I 766 00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:45,200 wanted to just shove on here right at the end of talking 767 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,680 about education was if you are a teacher and someone does 768 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,680 something good, say good. You don't have to stop the class 769 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,160 because the correction is slightly different. 770 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:54,360 You have to do something about it. 771 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,640 You have to either stop the exercise and go over to Jessica 772 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,240 and give her her correction, or you have to walk over to the 773 00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:04,080 corner and talk to Jessica while Bettina and Josie are coming 774 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,120 from the corner. You talk to Jessica over there a 775 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,360 good you don't have to do anything. 776 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,040 You literally just have to shout over to Jessica. 777 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,040 Much better Jessica and then then and keep on looking at the 778 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:14,520 next screen. You don't have to do anything 779 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,280 apart from just say it. Just be honest. 780 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,920 If you felt something, let it out. 781 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:25,240 It's be like yes, just say yes I shout good or yes randomly so. 782 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,720 Much same, same. I can't help it if it's in, if 783 00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:32,040 you've seen an improvement in real time, you want to celebrate 784 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,880 that, you know, you know, we should be celebrating those 785 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,680 moments as much as we're trying to improve other elements of the 786 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:39,920 class. You know, that's part of 787 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,360 teaching, isn't it? So it's, it really is a two way 788 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,000 St. You have to be receptive as the 789 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,800 student, as the dancer, the trainee, whether you're 790 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,200 professional or not in that setting, within that classroom 791 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,080 studio, you know, you have have to be receptive, take things on 792 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,120 board because we we've discussed this many times about general 793 00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,000 corrections because we just don't have the time to give 794 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,800 individual corrections all of the time. 795 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,600 You have to be receptive. But also on the other side of 796 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,440 that, we have to, as teachers, be responsible and intelligent 797 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,520 enough to deliver in a way that is honest. 798 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:20,800 Insert theme tune music here. Now, I don't think we can have 799 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,200 an episode on honesty if we don't cover a working 800 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,760 environment as well. We have covered auditions and we 801 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,040 have covered dance class or dance education, but those 802 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,440 aren't the only places where you get feedback. 803 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,880 You also get feedback when you are working. 804 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,160 Let's just say in this ballet company, as the director, you 805 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:42,120 have to be able to be honest. And again, it's this, it's where 806 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:46,800 we are in society right now that is making directors feel a 807 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,960 little bit apprehensive or nervous or scared to be able to 808 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:54,080 be honest and be able to say you didn't get the role because you 809 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,600 weren't good enough without getting cancelled. 810 00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,360 That's the only reason I can think of why directors are not 811 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,960 honest. I understand you maybe want to 812 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,040 be nice to me. Maybe that's also in your 813 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,040 thoughts that you're trying to be a nice person. 814 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,560 But I don't think I just think it's more beneficial for you to 815 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,360 tell me. I'm not here to be your friend. 816 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,800 I'm not here to hang out. We're not here to, you know, 817 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:19,880 make friendship bracelets or whatever. 818 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,480 Like I'm at work. Have I done my job well enough? 819 00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:26,120 Am I good enough? Have I worked hard this season? 820 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:27,680 Have I not worked hard this season? 821 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,120 What do you want to see out of me next season? 822 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,640 And if I mean, I'm not one of those people that really would 823 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,680 ask why I didn't get a role because I trust the process and 824 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,040 I trust the powers that be that you didn't cast me because 825 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,520 whatever reason it was, you didn't cast me. 826 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,520 And I will just not appreciate that's not the right word. 827 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:50,440 I will understand and support your decision because you're my 828 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,800 boss or you're my cast, you're my choreographer, whatever it 829 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,600 is. But if someone does come up with 830 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,920 one of those questions, firstly you should feel that you can 831 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,800 tell the truth and you should tell them the truth because 832 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,560 again, what is the point of not telling the truth? 833 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,720 Nobody is getting anything out of it. 834 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:15,480 If we can't keep on saying Jessica because also she's not 835 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:16,480 in the company, she wouldn't be there. 836 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,800 If Maria works for you. You want your employees to be 837 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,280 good. You want to hire Maria again. 838 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,600 So Maria asking why she didn't get to play Swan Hilda in this 839 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:35,360 production, the only thing to do here is to tell them why? 840 00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:38,800 Because you want a better version of Maria next time so 841 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,000 maybe she can place one Hilda. Maria wants to be better so she 842 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,480 can place one Hilda. We all want Maria to be better. 843 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:49,840 So why would we not say it's because you're you're miming was 844 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,680 unbelievable or whatever the IT is like the reason that you did 845 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:59,400 not cast this girl as the role Tell also if you don't, if she 846 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,520 is not good enough to be more than quarter ballet or height 847 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,400 wise, she's not right. Whatever the reason, please just 848 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:10,280 tell us the reason because it's, again, it's beneficial for all 849 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,000 parties involved. No, absolutely. 850 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,160 I couldn't agree more. And I think within that 851 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:18,480 scenario, that specific setup of, you know, the persons 852 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,960 already within the company, but trying to explore different 853 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:26,360 roles, I think the key thing to take away is building honest and 854 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,560 respectful relationships within that environment within that 855 00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:31,720 company so that everybody progresses. 856 00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:36,000 Because if the if the dancer, if the performer is happy and 857 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,960 evolving, that can only be a great thing for the company, 858 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:40,920 right? If that person stays within that 859 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,760 company. So there's no sense in hiding 860 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:48,360 or, or shying away or, you know, in case you're trying to, you 861 00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,160 know, avoid hurting their feelings because there is no 862 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,560 growth. You know honesty should provoke 863 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,720 growth if it's delivered in a respectful way. 864 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,320 So before we finish this episode, I just wanted to say 865 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,240 something about, OK, so I also understand that we all have to 866 00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:11,960 play the game and we all have to be nice people and we all have 867 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,480 to be at work and give fake pleasantries and all that kind 868 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:16,560 of stuff. I get that. 869 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,480 However, I need to tell you this story. 870 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:24,480 So I'm watching a scene from out front. 871 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,200 I'm on the God mic, as we call it in the industry, and 872 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,960 everybody is going to leave the scene, right? 873 00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:39,200 And let's just call her Jessica. Jessica is stood on stage left 874 00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:42,080 and literally, I can't remember what it is, but let's just say 875 00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:46,280 it's a big bum and everyone has to, without running, quickly get 876 00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,800 off stage, right? And Jessica crosses the entire 877 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:54,120 stage to go off stage, right? So then I'm like, OK, stop. 878 00:48:54,720 --> 00:48:57,840 It's like, Jessica, why did you go off stage? 879 00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,640 Right? We're all trying to go off as 880 00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:01,080 quickly as possible. That was the note that was 881 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,440 given. It's like, oh, but my next 882 00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:09,320 entrance is over here and her next entrance firstly is in 10 883 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:14,080 minutes. And so I'm like, how do I put in 884 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:18,480 a nice way? Cross under the stage, bitch, I, 885 00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,880 I, I don't. And yet my point being this is 886 00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,840 this is when honesty, you have to kind of play the game. 887 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,560 You can't be honest because honestly, I want to say what 888 00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,040 earth is wrong with you? Of course you can't just walk 889 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,840 over center stage because your next entrance is over there. 890 00:49:33,240 --> 00:49:35,400 Like no. Use the closest. 891 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,440 Wing the closest wing, cross underneath. 892 00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,040 It might be annoying to cross underneath whatever it is and 893 00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,040 come on the other side. If we have a quick change and 894 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,800 there's a problem, we will talk about it. 895 00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,680 But there isn't. You're just being lazy. 896 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,640 Now obviously I have to be a human being and I have to work 897 00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:54,000 with this person for the next 6 months, so I can't be, let's 898 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,120 just say, honest. In that situation. 899 00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,880 Because honestly, I want to say, what the fuck are you thinking? 900 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,920 But I have to be like, oh, well, actually it would work out much 901 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,640 better because everybody is leaving by the closest exit. 902 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,200 So actually there's quite a few people. 903 00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,000 Maria is also crossing under the stage. 904 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:09,520 You could of course, cross under the stage. 905 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,160 You've got lots of time. Don't worry, that's what you 906 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,720 have to do. So sadly not all situations can 907 00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:18,280 you be honest. No, you have to sometimes in 908 00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,960 some situations kind of fluff up the edges, so to speak. 909 00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:26,400 But it's absolutely also fine to say, I need everybody to please. 910 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,480 I need everybody to please use their closest exit. 911 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:30,960 You have time for a quick change. 912 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,280 And I think if in that scenario you've, you know, your, your 913 00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:40,040 comment, your, your feedback is supported through logic, you 914 00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,280 have time for your quick change. So please just use your closest 915 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:44,160 wing. Thank you. 916 00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,200 Then if you just decide to discuss it with you further, you 917 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:51,440 can just pull her aside and say, listen, I appreciate it's easier 918 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,040 for you. Listen, you little shit, I 919 00:50:55,040 --> 00:51:00,360 appreciate, I appreciate my tea is wearing off now. 920 00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:04,520 I appreciate you have a quick change, but you do have time to 921 00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,680 get across so you. Do have half an hour? 922 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,440 And in fact, we're deliberating whether to cut you from that 923 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,680 number so. Don't worry about it. 924 00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,000 You've got half an hour and your quick change is a bonnet to a 925 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:17,960 hat. You're fine. 926 00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:26,320 You're fine. Well, in all honesty, I hope 927 00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:28,520 that helps. If it didn't help, please don't 928 00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,000 tell us because we can't handle the honesty. 929 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,000 Oh God no, don't tell me any harsh truths or any more 930 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,320 honesty. I want to happily live out my 931 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:43,720 days in delusional bliss with my herbal teas and the occasional 932 00:51:43,720 --> 00:51:49,000 Marks and Sparks gin and tonic. All right, well, I will leave 933 00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,840 you on some honesty and say this Limoncello spritz is doing the 934 00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,680 trick, but it's far too sweet. And Denise, it's been a pleasure 935 00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:57,920 yet again. I appreciate your honesty, thank 936 00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:03,320 you for delivering that in a productive and positive way, and 937 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:08,560 I shall avoid having the limoncello spritz and stick to 938 00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:13,000 my regular medicinal gins. So thank you everybody for 939 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,720 listening. Please make sure you are ready 940 00:52:15,720 --> 00:52:18,440 for next week. We have a fantastic guest with 941 00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,280 us. Next week we have the director 942 00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:25,680 and CEO of Scottish Ballet. Christopher Thompson is with us 943 00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:26,680 next. Oh. 944 00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,680 How marvelous. That's going to be a riot. 945 00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,240 Love him. So everybody, please check out 946 00:52:32,240 --> 00:52:34,120 next week's episode. Stay tuned. 947 00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,360 Love you lots, Denise. Lots of love, darling.