Hello and welcome to Drinks at the Bar, a podcast where we
break through the 4th wall and discuss everything about dance
and the theater industry. My name is Paul James Rooney, a
dancer, choreographer and dance teacher based in Copenhagen, and
I'm your host of Drinks at the Bar.
Here we discuss everything from hearing backstage stories,
touring shenanigans to deeper issues like body image training,
the reality of being a freelance dancer and much more.
Today I am very happy to be joined by someone who has the
most incredible feat, The arch, the line, stunning.
But seriously, it is such a privilege to be joined today by
the CEO and Artistic Director of Scottish Ballet.
He was a soloist with English National Ballet where he also
worked extensively as a choreographer, creating several
ballets including The Nutcracker and Double Concerto.
He has choreographed for the Royal New Zealand Ballet,
Atlanta Ballet, Ballet Black and of course for Scottish Ballet.
In 2023 he was awarded ACBE for his services to dance in the
King's Birthday Honours List. Please join me in welcoming
Christopher Hampson. Hello, it's good to see you.
You too. Oh my God, it's been forever.
A long time, how you doing? I'm good.
I'm really good coming at the end of the summer so it's lovely
evening still and before hard work starts again.
Oh, good stuff. It's beautiful here.
Really is. Really nice day.
You must be, you know, fully living and integrated into
Scottish life. Yeah, absolutely.
Been here for 13 years but to be honest I all of my childhood
holidays were up here because my mum's Scottish.
Oh OK, yeah, that was the same as me.
All of my childhood holidays were in the grey summers.
Where were you? We were around Newton Moor and
Pit Lockery and all of that kind of area.
Oh, Pit Lockery's lovely. I'm more West Coast so I'm
Greenock and Guruk down that way.
Oh fantastic, that's lovely. So I mean like tonight I'm I'm
finishing up the day after this and then I'll just log the dog
in the car and then down to the beach for the evening, watch the
sunset. Oh, beautiful.
Absolutely beautiful. Well welcome.
It's so nice that you've taken the time out of your busy
schedule to have a little chat. I'm happy to.
Yeah, really happy to. Well, cheers are welcome.
Thank you. And I, I haven't got a drink.
That's terrible, isn't it? But I've still got the rest of
my day to go a bit. Oh OK, well I've got myself a
Lily and Tonics. There you go, that's a good
start. So I wanted to actually start
from the very beginning with you, Chris, 'cause I was looking
at, you know, doing some research and learning some other
stuff about you. And nowhere does it say anywhere
on the Internet where you're from.
I was like, I could find out everything about your your
career and everything, but where you're from I have no idea.
Oh should we, should we, should we bust the mix?
I'm from Manchester, was born in Manchester.
OK. Yeah, and it's quite funny when
I'm in non-english speaking countries they'll often say oh,
you know, where's your accent from?
And of course it's completely new.
I say I've got BBC English because I was born in
Manchester, so I had a Mancunian accent when I was on holiday in
Scotland. I affected a bit of a Scottish
accent when I went to London to the Royal Ballet School.
In those days you just got made so much fun of because you had a
northern accent because it was those days, so it was just
quicker to lose it. So yeah, thanks, Royal Ballet
School. Well, exactly.
Also, being surrounded by Southerners and people from
different accents and everything at ballet school, it just, yeah,
everything. Everyone comes out with the same
voice. It was and.
And in those days, yeah, that's dead, right.
And in those days there weren't that many people from the north
of England, that's for sure. But also, I think what's really
different now is, you know, you look on TV and radio and accents
are really celebrated. Yeah.
So, you know, it's quite a different, yeah, just different
so. You grew up in Manchester, where
you bang smack in the Were you a city kid or were you on the
outskirts in suburbia or? Yeah, just on the outskirts in
suburbia, I would say. There was no ballet there,
that's for sure. Right, so how did you get
introduced to the world of dance then?
You know, like lots of people, it's because someone else did
it. So my best friend from across
the road, Melissa, she got taken to ballet classes.
I don't know, 4 some four or five, I don't know.
And so I don't want to play with.
I was like, well, I've just got taken as well.
And the story goes that she left because she couldn't skip.
So I mean, what child can't skip?
But she left because she couldn't skip and I stayed on
because I could. And, and there we go.
And it's quite nice really, because I'm now I'm, I'm still
in touch with her. Oh really?
Yeah. So can she skip?
I don't know if she can skip, I think she probably had enough
drinks she could. So will you just go into your
local dance school and then your teacher then told you about the
World Ballet School and did it kind of happen like that for
you, like kind of done for you in such?
Not at all, no. So went to local ballet school,
and that was a long time ago in Manchester.
A ballet company had just been founded called Northern Ballet,
Right? I'm that old.
Right on it. So it was celebrating its 10th
birthday in 1979. They were doing a production of
Madden Butterfly, and they needed a little boy to obviously
be, you know, the son. So I was probably the only boy
there was really. So I was that boy.
And then I was in Northern Ballet productions every year
until I went to the Royal Ballet School.
But also I think through that I was also involved in loads of
productions for visiting companies.
So like when the the Royal Ballet used to tour like around
the country? Yes.
And so I did that Romeo and Juliet.
I remember doing pirouette competitions with Stephen
Jeffries and Wayne Eagling and weird stuff when I was a little
kid. And then my my other kind of
really lovely memory was I'm just sitting, that's a beautiful
picture of Rudolf Nureyev. And he had done a production for
Boston Ballet, I think the Don Quixote.
And there's little kids in that. And so I was one of those little
kids. Oh, wow.
So I worked with him. Yeah.
It was, you know, being lifted off this car that got wheeled on
by lifted off by him every night.
So in a weird way, I wanted to keep doing that more and more.
And the Royal Ballet School was the answer.
Right. OK.
It wasn't just because, you know, you were, because for
example, with me, I was at my local dance school and then the
teacher was, oh, maybe we should try this.
Maybe we should try this. And it was never me hearing of
something and asking to go to the war ballet school.
Yeah, but I thought I was totally that way round.
Like I just knew I wanted to keep doing the stuff on stage.
And how do you do that? You need to get better.
So I want to go to that place. That's kind of how it went.
And so that was from the age of 11 and you did all the way
through White Lodge. I did the whole thing, all of
it. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I know I've got scars from being assessed out, but
it's also a blessing in disguise to have a change of scenery
sometimes as well. Oh God, yeah.
Where did where did you go after you?
Well, after I got kicked out, I went to Elmhurst and I think
when I was in my final year you came and choreographed on me.
Yeah, yeah. Were you?
Was that James Barton's year as well?
James Barton was in the production, but he was the year
below me. Oh, fabulous.
Of such fond memories of doing that.
Yeah. Oh, my goodness.
Yeah. Alfreda invited me to do that.
It was lovely. And that love.
Mercier. Yes.
Mercy Hetherington. Mercy Hetherington.
Yeah. My God.
Oh, really nice. It was nice, that piece.
I remember the music. I really like music, Yeah.
I remember doing lots of Grangetes and there being this
whole like section with people crossing over the stage and like
Canon Jetes and everything. It was beautiful.
Yeah, I think I just finished up with concertos.
I was in a kind of using groups and playing with patterns and
that kind of headspace. Yeah.
Fantastic. Yeah.
Oh, my God. Yeah.
I mean, I do, you know, I remember at White Lodge, you
know, obviously some friends of mine were assessed out as well.
And a friend of mine, Emma, she reminded me recently, I just
bumped in for, you know, down in London.
I was just sort of down there and she reminded me.
She said, oh, do you remember when I got assessed out and you
went, do you know what? It's probably the best thing
that could happen to you. And I was, I didn't actually,
But she, it was lovely hearing back what I'd said to her.
Yeah. Because it was about new
beginnings. And this isn't everything.
And, you know, it's just a thing.
Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, God. I'd been about 12.
I was going. To say having that intelligence.
Going on 50K. Already knitting at that point.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Would you look back at your ballet school times with happy
memories? Are mixed because some of it was
really great and some of it was really bad and everything in
between. But I guess, you know, look back
on, you know, the people I was with that that we all got
through it together. And there's that sense of, you
know, all of us working in some way together to have a great
time and, and we did, you know, lots of really good things.
And whenever I look back on my time there, there are some
things that, you know, just weren't great.
And they just weren't, you know, it was really unresearched
teaching and really kind of, you know, a bit cowboy really some
of it that, I mean, I'm talking like 100 years ago now, so.
Yeah, of. Course so but then there were
things like silly things like our teacher, we were his first
year and he Russian and he just didn't speak English, so he just
taught us in Russian. So I now can teach a class in
very bad Russian and Czech. So I've got good counting in
Russian Rastava 3 and then in in Czech as well.
Yedim's very so quite similar, and I remember all the parts of
the body. Kalavar was the head, Ruki
Noigi, well, just cheap stuff that stayed with me, but it's
kind of quirky. It was a terrible situation,
some of it, but then some weird stuff came out of it.
They'd go, oh, that was kind of useful, some of.
It, I mean, we've spoken about, you know, with on this podcast
before that back then, even when I was at school as well, lots of
the teachers were just teaching how they were taught or just
relaying dance steps and relaying things how they think
you should teach. But it wasn't done through, you
know, learning how you should teach a child.
And I would say as well, Paul, not teaching the child in front
of you, that's what I look back on.
It was very much drill, kind of army drilled this.
This is what we all do and everyone has to fit this level
or this shape or that. It was, you know.
And this. If this correction doesn't work
for you, too bad. Yeah.
This is the correction. That's the absolutely, yeah.
And I think I look back now on some of those teachers who were
really fabulous and some who were not that fabulous and the
less fabulous ones. It was just, I think there's no
excuse really. I just think it was really lazy
teaching because it wasn't really teaching.
It was just repeating kind of learn, learn behaviours and
learn knowledge. There was no discovery or
curiosity. You know, I remember when I went
to White Lodge for the first, it was, it was at least the first
two weeks, but it felt like the first two months all we did was
stand in a semi circle and say my name is Christopher Hampson
and I'm from Manchester. Oh my God.
I mean I was like what the fuck are we doing here?
And I remember I was so homesick and I used to phone my mum going
we've not done any ballet yet. It was, and coming from, you
know, dancing on stage and being around formers and oh God, it
was a real let down that first year.
I just was like, God, what am I doing?
But you know, and then I met fabulous people around me and a
fabulous yes of boys that we were in the year and yeah, then
other, you know, great stuff happened about, you know, going
into technique and learning about ballet.
But yeah, Guy was yeah, weird. Already then, at school, you
entered photographic competitions.
Yeah, I did that at the Upper School.
So for me, White Lodge, White Lodge is the right bumpy ride
for me, right. But the Upper School, I felt I
just sort of came alive there. It was really nice.
I could be myself. I knew I was gay from forever.
So that was really nice to just be me.
Yes. And that, that was quite
important that because it was, again, it was a very homophobic
environment. Weird.
And people just so shocked at that.
But I'm sure you won't be. You think, God, you go to a
place where there's that acceptance within the
profession. It's the most homophobic
environment I've been in. Yeah.
From teachers, from other, you know, pupils from, you know,
bizarre, isn't it? So.
But at the Upper School, the kind of sense of freedom it for
different. Did you ask that in your
training? I.
Mean, yeah, I remember, you know, I mean the whole
chauvinistic man, male ballet dancer that we all had to be.
We all have to be this bum bum, bum bum bum bum, kind of.
Pop a turban on. Exactly.
But also, I mean, I've thought about it a lot and I think the
the homophobia and the bullying from the other kids, it probably
stems from those kids back in their own local towns, the
straight boys getting bullied for being gay from everybody
around them because they're doing ballet.
And so they're just kind of deflecting, which is an excuse,
but. Yeah, and fear, you know, and
all bullying comes from fear of something in within a person.
And also for me, like I didn't know I was gay from a really
young age. So for me, when I realized that
I was gay, suddenly I'm like, oh, those people were right all
along. So I think maybe there's that
thing from the straight boys as well, from everyone calling them
gay all the times they do ballet, that fear of.
But am I? You keep on saying I am.
Am I actually gay? I don't know.
Yeah. And then the kind of then the
ballet stereotype kicks in where you know, that, yeah, like you
say, that kind of masculinity that's only a set to 100.
Yeah. You know, all the time.
Yeah. Yeah, there is that bravado,
male lead, principal dancer and that's it.
Yeah, that's all there was, yeah.
Yeah, up until very recently. Thank God it's all shifting and
evolving. It's really good.
Oh yes, yes. Oh, it's fantastic to be able to
go to go to school now and be able to have dancers in
companies around the world and, you know, see different versions
of what a male dancer is, whether that be quality, whether
that be technique, whether that be body type, character.
Yeah. It's an exciting time for kids
to go to school, I think, and have people in companies that
are male in very different ways. So being able to be more
comfortable with yourself and more free in upper school,
that's when you decided to start looking into being creative
yourself as a. Choreographer or yeah,
absolutely. And we, I think like most kids,
we had to do some choreography for a GCSE.
So I think I did that. But Norman Morris and David Drew
were my choreographic tutors. Oh my God, they were amazing.
Good cop, bad cop and but you know, really great.
They they just met for me. They made-up their pairing, sort
of made-up a total person for me, total tutor.
And they suggest, did I put something into the Ursula Morton
competition, which is the Royal Ballet Schools internal
choreography competition. And it's the first piece ever
made and it got third. So I was like, oh, that's that
then. No, I really did.
I enjoyed the ability to express movement and and discover
movement with people, with colleagues and friends.
And yeah, I remember the choreography I won it with was
was judged by Kenneth McMillan that year and it I'd chosen 2
cabarets, sort of Kurt Vile cabaret songs and I'd called it
Dasis de sexuala Herderskite. That is sexual compulsion.
I won it that year. So I think you quite like the
naughtiness. And yes, I do.
And I remember him sort of saying, do you know what?
Because there were these German songs, and he said, do you know
what they mean? And I said, yeah, yeah, I've
read the translation. And he said, yeah, good.
Because they're dirty, you guys. I think he quite liked it.
I mean, he's kind of known for his drama and his.
Yeah, yeah, there is a naughtiness I think to.
A gritty. Yeah, yeah.
So I quite love, but I loved it. And they did it in the school
show that year as well, so it was really nice.
Wow. To see it dance with lots of
different people too. Yeah.
So I yeah, probably, you know, compared to other people that
were choreographing around me, I was a bit late to the party, but
right. I mean Class 16 is not late, is
it? No, exactly.
Yeah, I mean, come on. What?
You've been doing for the last 16 years, but yeah.
But did that, did it spark anything in you then about
possibilities of a career as a choreographer?
Or were you still thinking dancer?
I think it sparked to me the possibility of other right.
So I did still want to dance and I did want to I had, you know,
lots of choreographers I wish to dance and all of that.
But I thought this is great because there's something else I
can do as well, right. OK.
And I remember feeling this ability to be once removed in
that space. And I really liked what you can
see when you're removed slightly from the doing.
Yes, yeah. So like that.
And also knowing, you know, when you're choreographing on your
schoolmates, they're known for what they can do in ballet
class. And in that solo, they're
learning, of course, you know them as a person, a rounded
human being. So being able to explore.
That and dance and bring it and out in them and dance that I
really loved. Felt like a gift.
Felt like giving someone a gift. And I mean, just because you
said that I have to jump forward, is that something that
you have found different when you're choreographing, for
example, for Scottish Ballet that you obviously know
everybody E&B when you were there as well, you knew
everybody. Is it?
Do you find that being a benefit to when you go and work for, I
don't know, Atlanta Ballet? That way you don't know the
people as well? Oh, you know, it's a bit of
both. I think when you know people
really well, yes, that side of it that you can access, you
know, parts of their personality that maybe even they don't
notice you can bring to the fore and and explore.
But also that familiarity breeds contempt thing where actually
you kind of sometimes know someone a bit too much, you
know, what their abilities are and there are not or what their
personality might, might walk away from rather than walk
towards. And so when I was choreographing
on companies where I didn't know the dancers or I, you know, go
and work with people I don't know, there's a wonderful kind
of freshness where they also don't know me.
They don't know me as well. Whereas when you're working on
your colleagues, boy, do they know you too.
So, yeah, it's, you know, swings and roundabouts.
You know, it's like teaching though, isn't it?
You know, when you teach people that you know really well,
there's that you can get a lot done because there's a way in.
But also, you can't get a lot done because they know you in a
way that perhaps when someone new comes in, they can say
exactly the same thing and suddenly everyone goes, Oh yeah,
I've never heard that before. Yeah, yeah, because there is
that. I mean, especially when I've
taught company class to your colleagues and then, yeah, they
don't listen to a correction as much as they will to some
fabulous. Guest teacher or just a guest
teacher? Sometimes they don't need to be
fabulous. It's just.
Oh my gosh, yeah. It's true though, isn't it?
It is, yeah. So when you graduated, you
finished the Royal Ballet School?
Yeah. E&B.
Yeah. Straight away you got into
English, National Ballet. And what was your your first
thoughts of joining the company? Well, it was a weird route
because I'd done an extra year at the Royal Ballet School
hoping to get into the Royal Ballet, and that didn't happen.
So it's really, you know, eight years.
And so that, yeah, you can't help but feel something about
that, of course. And I went, funnily enough, the
first company I, I auditioned for was Scottish Ballet,
ironically, and they didn't have any contracts.
And then I went down to EMB. So I kind of went to EMB.
And I remember Betty Anderson was when the Royal Ballet School
was at the Tollgarthrates Company and the school together.
And I remember Betty Anderson stopping me in the corridor and
saying, Hampi, you are going to the best company in the world
and you're going to love it. Fantastic.
And I thought that was so amazing.
And she was right. I.
Mean that. Yeah.
It is also of a time period because it still was when I was
there of they kind of don't. They didn't mention any other
companies. You were geared to go to the
water ballet company and that's it.
Yeah. There wasn't a actually Chris
looks more like an EMB dancer or so and so would really fit
Scapino or whatever it is. There was a royal or nothing.
Yeah, pretty much. So it's kind of interesting to,
you know, note that when I got to EMB, it was it was instantly
rewarding and atomic and meeting dancers with such different
backgrounds and trainings and nationalities and cultural
differences and oh God, it was exhilarating.
I loved it. I can imagine because also back
in, you know, in the 90s, that company was really Spanish,
Italian, Australian. It was so many different
nationality. I mean, I'm sure it still is
now, but like it, it really was. Yeah, I think especially in that
context of that time, it was, you know, it, it was just the
best of everywhere, I always felt.
And the point of difference, and that still I think applies today
with EMB. There's a point of difference,
you know, at the Royal Ballet you can see an credible heritage
of repertoire and a host of voices that they have curated,
and Embd is no really different, which is great.
Yeah. Yeah, it's a good thing.
Yeah, completely. Because, you know, like Northern
Ballet does something different, like Scottish Ballet does
something different. There is place for everything.
And obviously E&B just suited you really well.
If you had that kind of euphoria feeling as soon as you started
the company, you just went, oh, this feels right.
And also it was, you know, just talking to you now, reflecting,
I'm like, God, it was fabulous. Because he leaves the Royal
Ballet School in those days, you know, must preface.
In those days, he left the Royal Ballet School and you say, name
an English choreographer and you just said Ashton and McMillan.
Yeah. And immediately going to ENB, it
was Ronnie Hynde, Chris Bruce, Ben Stevenson.
You know, all of a sudden I was like, oh, there's loads of other
choreographers here. You know, it was, it was
wonderful and they just having my mind opened up that way.
It's great. But do you think you you noticed
that because you were already interested in the broader sense
of dance as a whole, not just as a dancer, you're also then
interested in the creation and the choreography, so you maybe
had your your feelers out a bit more than other dancers.
Maybe. I think I've always been like
that though, and I think from what my friend was saying, well,
balance the card just always had this kind of outside eye,
someone who's had a, a sense of perspective about things always
even going through school. So that I think when I joined
DMB that just got broader and broader.
It was lovely. And I, I got really interested
in how a touring company works. Like what does that?
How does that function? You know, and I was always, you
know, create, always creating, always just pulling dancers
aside and going. Can I just do a piece on you
really quickly and staying late? Yeah, just, yeah, really just I
like to think, I'll look back now and I like to think I was
really getting the most I possibly could out of every
minute there. So from straight away you were
already playing around, choreographing straight away.
Yeah, immediately. And they did a sort of
choreographic workshop which they hadn't done before.
And I've got sneaky suspicion Lynn Wallace was the ballet
mistress at the time. I think she might have done it
for me. Well, that's nice.
It's. Really nice.
And, you know, and Lynn Lynn's always supported, you know, me
over the years and that was really lovely.
I think. I sort of think she did.
And she set that up because I was coming in and.
Yeah. And I just kept doing little
pieces and then they started using them for galas and
fundraisers and. So it wasn't you yourself going
up to the the what do you call it the management and asking I
would like to have a go kind of thing it was.
Oh, God, no. I've been waiting forever to do
that. No, I just used to do.
Just do and do and do. And then.
Yeah. And my director is Derek Dean.
By then, Ivan Nash had brought me into the company, and then
Derek took the company on and, you know, he gave me my first.
But yeah, he saw these pieces I think I'd do for galas.
And, you know, he'd say, yeah, well, Hampi can do a fundraising
gala or whatever. So yeah.
And then he gave me my very first one act ballet.
Oh, wow. I do people know I'm Hampi.
They probably don't as my that's my nickname at school.
Everybody listening Christopher Hampson, Hampy I.
Mean not many people call it me now, but from a really from a
certain era they do because that there was so many.
There was me. There was so many Christopher's.
It must have been name at the time.
There was Christopher Wheeldon and me in the same year when I
joined EMB. There was Christopher Powney and
Christian Duncan. Christopher Bruce was working
with us. So I remember Lynn just saying
what do they call you at school? You got a nickname or something.
So that stuck with me for the whole of E MB.
I mean, I, I, I knew you was happy as well, like.
That's all right. So yeah, it's kind of, I can
kind of date people by what they call me in every sense.
So I would have, obviously, I think that my first time I ran
into you would have been as a child in EMB, yeah.
But I remember. You I used the word child very
loosely. I was 16, everybody else was
like 12. But because I was short, there
was were. You 16.
Derek was still using me in his Nutcracker because he was like,
he's well, he's done it for three years.
He still looks the same age. Everyone around me was like 12
years old. And then there's just me.
Yeah, I remember. You remember that Nutcracker?
Yeah, my God. With like Nadine and Kiara.
Oh yes. Oh yeah.
It's a nice company it. Was it was and also as a child
it was so welcoming. Oh, that's nice to.
Know. Yeah, because as I mean, I did
Nutcracker Roman, Juliet and Swan Lake as a kid.
Yeah, kid. And like, you know, my mum was
Michaela and Clara and all these.
People. Oh, really lovely people.
Joe Clark, Nadine. Yeah, really lovely.
I ended up working with Nadine again over here in Denmark,
which was very strange. Like, you know, we both, we both
grow up. She leaves the and B and I move
over to Denmark. I get a job here and the first
people I see in the company is Kiara and Nadine.
Kiara Ferry, yeah. Yeah.
Oh, we send them both, my love. I will do.
They're back in England now, but they were here for years.
I remember they were both in perpetuum mobile A my first ever
ballet. Oh, both of them.
They're both sweethearts. Yeah.
Oh, lovely. Oh, how sweet.
God, that's amazing. God, we did.
So that thing when you were with E&B dancing as a kid, that's
what I had between the ages of 6 and 10.
Yeah. So I had that feeling.
Yeah. It's lovely.
Really nice, isn't it? Isn't it lovely?
I just remember thinking, Christ, people do this for a
living. Like how brilliant is that?
Adults do this for a living. And I remember thinking that
really strongly and just thinking, I'll do that.
That's what I want to do. I think it wasn't until, yeah,
exactly when I started working with the company as a child, I
started realizing, oh, that's what this training is doing.
I'm doing that. I'm heading towards that because
I think I was just training to be better at something that I
was, you know, talented at or had an interest in and didn't
really at a very young age put two and two together that oh,
I'm doing. I'm heading towards a job.
It was just becoming a better ballet dancer.
God, Paul, that's amazing because I've not, I've not ever
thought of it that way round. So I'm hearing something really
new here because on my experiences, my experience was
knowing the job first with with young and working towards that.
But then there's so many roots to what we do, which is
fascinating. So it's amazing to hear, you
know, you sort of progressing and really thinking, well, I'm
going to get better at this and better at this and then finding
an outlet for it, it sounds like.
Because it, because I think it was it because even though I did
like, you know, your local panto or whatever, like I did and I
was one of the little dwarfs in the war ballast one late before
White Lodge, I again, it was just, it wasn't anything in my
mind about a job. There was no, I thought.
There's no thought there. Oh.
I love that. No thought, but lots of passion.
Exactly. That's all it was.
That's. Amazing.
So we have to talk a little bit about you as a dancer, because
you were as well, a beautiful dancer.
Oh, thank you. I liked dancing for a while.
Yeah. And I really enjoyed it.
And I think, you know, I quite, I don't mind saying I've really
natural facility. I mean, you know, legs and feet
weren't half bad. Understatement.
And to be honest, thanks for that.
That particular Russian technique that I was working
with, with Anna Holly and with German, it had a really strong
groundings, a really good knowledge of classical ballet.
So the body could really just could really explore it.
I think I, I look back, I love dancing the Balanchine stuff.
And weirdly, for such a sort of lanky dance, I was very long
limbed. Still am.
But you know, long, really long, stupidly ridiculously long legs
and a really stupidly short body.
Just having all of those kind of long extremities, I could move
really quickly. Right.
Yes. But I love moving at speed,
which is quite unusual. I think most people thought it
was quite slow, languid, adarchy kind of dancer.
And I didn't. I used to love really fast
footwork and really technical stuff and my I used to love
dancing etudes. It's just my favorite thing to
dance because it's just super technical.
Beautiful. But you know, being really
honest, I even, I didn't last long on stage because about the
age I was doing more and more choreography.
And so I, I was on my, my third ballet and I just, I just
remember not feeling excited about going on stage and
thinking, Oh, this isn't right anymore.
OK. And I even, not just the on
stage stuff, but even, you know, the rigor of class and
rehearsals, they took a different, they just, they
started to feel different. And I was feeling super
independent choreographically and really independent in my
thinking. And I was exploring what that
meant for me. And that probably didn't land
well in a, you know, a kind of classical core driven company,
that sense of individuality. And yeah, yeah, it was growing
up, I think. But it sounds like it all was it
all happened at the same time, the individuality of of the
mindset, but also the the changing of am I interested in
being that athlete and putting my body through this every day.
It kind of everything was like. Yeah.
It was all around the same time that that interest shifted.
That's right. And so in my summer holidays I
would do galas with Wayne, sleep and direct stuff and go and do
choreograph for summer schools and things.
Yes. And then I'd come back and be
like, oh, I'm doing Swan Lake again.
And you know, nothing against Swan Lake, but that just I
needed something. I need something needed to
change so. It's kind of like done.
Thank you. Something else?
Absolutely. Yeah.
I remembered and, you know, remember going to see Derek and
telling him, and he wrote me the most beautiful note, I mean,
really generous note to say, you know, how talented he thought I
was and, you know, anything he could do to help.
And it was really encouraging, you know.
So yeah, I, I just was so excited to just get going in
that freelance world and knowing that I could, if it had all gone
wrong, I could still Chuck the tights on and I could still walk
the walk and talk the talk on stage.
Oh yeah, yeah. You weren't trying to do it as a
out of shape 50 year old or something.
It was quite young. Still, yeah, not that reckless,
but still had no job to go to. I had to kind of make my career,
but I had I had some commissions lined up.
Had you choreographed outside of EMB whilst you were in EMB
company for companies? Obviously you've done the summer
schools and different vocational schools.
Yeah, not, not for companies. And my first one was rural New
Zealand ballet after I left. Oh wow.
Yeah, OK. After I left EMB.
So yeah, that's not terrible, is it?
Like it's the first. I was going to say, I was going
to say was do you, do you think there was something different in
that piece that you created being your first piece out of
being a dancer and being in the establishment and everything and
suddenly being a freelancer? Is there anything you can see in
that piece that you created for Rome, New Zealand that was
different? Yeah, there in, there's a real
sense of energy in it. So I felt probably revitalised,
different. We were talking about that
earlier, different set of people, a new discovery.
They didn't know me, I didn't know them.
So there was no baggage, whether it is occupational or emotional.
Yeah, I can see some real vigor and energy in it.
Yeah, I loved it. I mean, Christ.
Well, an amazing thing to do just to go halfway around the
world and do the ballet. And, you know, I've stopped off
at, you know, in Hong Kong Ballet and taught there and I
started teaching company Class A lot, which is a really good way.
It was just a good way for me to get to know the dancers, really.
Yeah, because then you can see you, you can kind of slip little
steps in here and there into company class just to see what
people can do and see this people's.
Yeah, how open they are and. It's that it's, it's, it's
understanding who people are in that space and seeing those that
may be, you know, when I teach class, sometimes I can sense
people are perhaps less forward about their abilities, but I can
see something I can, if I'm teaching class, I can see if
that if I can get something out of that.
And then I can also see those that are absolutely in my face
and sometimes have nothing to back it up with.
So it's got look at me, look at me, look at me.
Yeah. And it's not they got nothing to
back out of. It's just that's where it ends.
Sometimes it is just look at me, which has its place, you know.
So I have to find where, where's that place for them, you know?
So during this freelance time you were contacted by Raymond
Gubby I'm guessing? Yes.
Oh, Raymond's a bit very good friend and has become a good
friend, yeah. And you were then asked to do
the Johann Strauss gala. Yeah, I still to this day one of
my most favorite gigs. It's one of my favorite gigs
gigs as well. Oh.
That's nice. Yeah.
It was so much fun. And again, I, what I think I
really liked about it was that I think I was one of the youngest
people and I wasn't young young, you know, I was mid 20s and then
everybody else was older. That was great being having like
Lucy Burns and Julianne and Michael Budd and Laurian and all
these people that were like slightly older than me.
I just loved it. It was a good gig.
It was a good gig, wasn't it? I loved it because we could, you
know, there was a template in a sense, you know, that you had to
deliver a certain amount of, you know, that Venie style.
Yeah, But we could be free to kind of interpret it.
It was always at Christmas time, and rehearsals were great.
I loved teaching class. We did club class.
We did class. Maybe you would put on like
basement jacks and we would just do like the whole bar.
The whole album, Wouldn't we? Or Madonna, when she did that
happen that, you know, through proposed Apple one hung up,
yeah, but hung up. Yeah, I remember.
We do Class 2 basement jacks, hung up or scissors.
As yeah. I still do that.
It's amazing. When we tour internationally,
sometimes we can't take a pianist.
And you know, if it's just a warm up class just to get people
going after a long journey, I'll say we're going to do club
class. And that's I still do some of
those, but it's a slightly different mix now.
But it's it's, you know, you can tell it's one of those things
that you do when it's like a we've got a choreograph, so many
numbers today. We've got to get through it.
So let's just do a class that this class today is just about
getting the blood going and that's it.
Getting a focus for the day. I just remember sometimes
though, with those Johann Strauss waltzes, I used to stand
in the middle of the room going, I do not know what to do.
I was like, how many more times can I find a new way to waltz?
But. We did because also we were, we
were performing on stages that you know, the Barbican great.
But then when we'd have you'd have to perform on then what's
it? Birmingham is it?
Constable. Which was just like so skinny
but really wide. And then the next day you'd be
in something which is a postage stamp, but then you're at the
Barbican. Like you have to have a
choreography that can just fit anywhere.
I loved it. I'm really glad you enjoyed it
because I loved it. I really did.
I had AI had a great time doing that, that contract, I think it
was what I felt was nice about it is that, you know, the
majority of the audience were coming to listen to the music
and see some pretty waltzing, which kind of let us be
adventurous because as long as we were delivering what they
would get out of it, then you can play even more.
And yeah. Did you, Did we do that one,
Paul, where I did the love affair, The letter?
Yes, going across. The stage that see, I loved
doing that, getting a bit of a gay romance in there.
And I remember Raymond just loving it and all that would
have never have got past me if you tried.
But he could see, you know, he could see the reaction it got.
I loved it it. Was lovely.
It was really nice. And obviously it.
Yeah, it's really good memories. And one of the best things about
that that job was the fact that the majority of people in the
job were musicians. So the dancers were the
minorities. So we got treated like
musicians. Yeah.
So we got our own rooms on tour. Oh.
My God. No, it's it's those things make
a difference. They make a difference.
Not having to share a room with some random dancer makes a
difference. It does.
It. Does, yeah.
Those tiny perks? I know I but I'm just going to
the those fab little theatres in little concert halls and things.
I loved it. I did, I really did.
And I learnt so much on that job as well, just about directing
and you know how to how to be agile in really strange
circumstances sometimes. Also you were, you were really
involved in also the, you know, David, the conductor in all of
his speeches and how he reacted to the dancers on stage and how
he delivered his speeches and all this kind of stuff.
It wasn't just choreographing so.
Yeah, no, I loved it. Yeah.
Happy times. So you're choreographing, you're
gallivanting around Scottish Ballet.
Yeah. What?
How? Why?
When? What, how, why, when?
So what happened was I guess I was in a place I'd, I, I had
started to that same feeling I had about the dancing, thinking
how much more can I do with this?
I was starting to feel that freelancing as a choreographer
and teacher, and it was around I used, I was watching what
directors were doing because I was, that's the great privilege
of freelancing as you get to see what everyone else is doing.
So I did see some directors doing really good stuff, and I
saw directors doing stuff. You wouldn't what not to do.
Yeah, and everything in between and so and then I noticed some
directors sort of go, Chris, what would you do?
What y'all got a problem? What, what do you think?
Which was really lovely to be trusted.
And then I start to think, well, I wonder what that would feel
like. I wonder what impact I might
have on a company if I, you know, lead with my values.
And I think just Scottish Ballet arrived at the right time in my
life. And I think they were looking
for something and I was looking for something.
And it was a bit like a perfect match, really, Yeah.
So what what was it that you thought was?
Was it just, you know, needing a change and wanting some
stability or? No, it wasn't that I was.
I was fine with the uncertainty of that freelance life.
It was, it really was about if I could just keep doing what I do
with a group of people. I wonder where that might take
us all. You know, it was more that I
guess the sense of stability in that that or a sense of
continuity maybe. Yeah, yeah.
That I didn't keep having to start again and I as it won't
surprise you, you know, I, I've always been quite forward
leaning and quite progressive and so I just thought, well,
what happens when you get a group of people that want to do
that with you? How far can you go and what
might we achieve? So that really interested me and
I think that I think that's what they saw in me at that time and.
Then obviously as a director, on top of everything else that you
have to do artistically, suddenly there's another job
that you can lean into, which is cool.
This is a great idea for a ballet.
I don't want to make it. This person should make it or
that must be. That's part of the job.
Exactly. I was going to say how?
Well, there's a lot, there's lots of different parts because
actually watching people's careers develop and grow is also
really rewarding. But that that really is a lovely
part of my job, just to be able to, you know, identify an
opportunity for somebody that you think, God, this is the
right time for that particular person to just embrace this
opportunity. Yeah, I get really emotional now
and I get really moved on opening nights.
I mean, just had it recently with Mary Queen of Scots, you
know, resident choreographer Sophie Laplante.
And I just couldn't contain myself.
And I spoke to the company about on on the opening night.
Just sort of the same, you know, Chuck us to everyone and I said
to them, I'm I'm getting really wobbly today.
So I I absolutely will have human feeling water coming out
of my eyes that you know it because it going on that journey
with someone, you know, and in a way I did for So what I had.
So I gave her little one minute commissions, little solos,
duets, gala pieces, things like I had, you know, the right
opportunity in front of me. I tried to put the right
opportunities in front of her for her, her abilities at that
moment in her in her career. That's fantastic.
I love doing that. Yeah.
So I'm, you know, I'm so super proud of all of the ballets
we've created and really proud that, you know, under the tenure
so far. A lot of those are by women,
full length commissions by women, fantastic.
And not the same person. Yeah, yeah.
Not just one woman that you're using a lot.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm very proud of
that. And, and it's a fantastic thing
to be happening because it needed needed to happen.
And it's great that it is. Yeah.
And I think it's, you know, it does beg the question, why?
Why is it not happening more often?
I still, I'm still puzzled. And why didn't it happen?
Yeah. Oh, well, we know why it didn't
happen because of the, you know, the lovely patriarchy that's
that's been signed up to on our behalf.
I think the why from historical perspectives, but you know, I'm
only really interested in in kind of looking forward and I
guess that still still has a little concern for me.
I'm like this should be happening a little bit more
often than it is. It's wonderful that there's such
diversity of creative voices out there now.
It's really good, but I don't like that it's remarkable that
we have 4 full length evenings a really good ballets that take us
internationally overseas by women that I have to find that
remarkable. That's still a problem, that's
still a bit of a sign of the times, but it look it's great
and there's lots of good work. You know, I see Annabelle's
working on Gentleman Jack with Northern Ballet and you know
there's some, I've just come from Australia as well, where
Ellis Tops is creating a new work for West Australian Ballet.
So it's happening. I just, it was just a lot more.
Yeah, I mean, like you said, it's it's sad that I have a
reaction, which is, Oh my God, that's great.
It shouldn't be great. It should be normal.
We'll get there. Yeah.
But it's quite interesting. I was asked a question when I
was doing a seminar. What do we need to do?
You know, how can we encourage women or how can we give women
opportunities to do full length works?
And I was like I just said, it's so easy.
You commissioned them. That's it.
That's all you do because for, you know, all of the men that
have been commissioned, they have been mediocre and they have
been less than all right. But they got a Commission at
some point and got better at what they do.
And so you just have to start. You just have to start doing it,
that's all. Yeah.
So it's kind of easy. Yeah, but seems difficult.
I've seen Scottish Ballet and yourself post on social media
your new piece the Mary Queen of Scots NHS.
Oh I wish I was in the UK. Oh, I think you'd love it.
For yeah, it seems like a really interesting piece.
Really interesting. I'm super proud of it.
I'm a proud of everyone that's created it and, and, and because
it really feels like a total Scottish ballet piece.
It feels really us. Yeah, I love the way it's been
told. I love the gender fluidity
within the production, which isn't it's so integral to how we
tell the story. That's what's so exciting about
it. Yes, it's not a gimmick.
Absolutely. You know, and then it's from a
homegrown talent. It's just the best.
Yeah, it's. Fantastic.
Yeah, it's really cool. Yeah, I think you'd like it.
It looks great. It looks really sexy.
The costumes are amazing. The score is phenomenal.
I mean, we'll bring it. Yeah, we'll we'll tour it.
I can't. I nearly said something I
shouldn't know. You'd probably guess.
Yeah. So as a director of a company
you're now more involved in as a choreographer.
Obviously you have a say about who you would like to use as a
composer, what music, as a costume designer, as a set
designer. But for our listeners out there,
it's not always the choreographer who makes those
decisions. Sometimes you have to work with
a certain person. Sometimes the director of a
company is making the decisions and pulling people together.
How do you mainly work with new commissions?
Yeah, not like that. So, yeah, because it is a
challenge. But you're right, there's loads
of different ways in when I commissioner work, sometimes I
will have been talking with that choreographer.
I will never commissioner work blind, like hear someone's name
and give them a Commission. They will always, always come
and do some R&D or a work that they've done before.
OK, So we all know what we're bringing to the table.
OK. Yeah.
And then for a full length Commission, it's about
discussing what sort of story we're looking to tell and how
we're looking to tell it. They'll often come with their
own creative team, which I'm really open to because that
choreographer needs to feel comfortable and supported and
really kind of that they're bringing their language up on
stage. But sometimes choreographers
will say, I've got XY and ZI, just don't composer, I don't
know. And then often I can help a bit
if I've, you know, yeah, come across someone that I think
would be interesting for them to use.
And then the process is really important.
So when I Commission a full length ballet, it's about two
years in the making. There is always paid R&D for
everyone involved. Amazing first.
Then we look at it and we decide whether that's what we're doing.
Then I'll often try and bring the choreographer for a few
stages, so maybe 2, sometimes 3, but normally 2 times that.
They do a big scope of work, like a draft of it, yes.
So some choreographers will try and draft the whole show, or
they'll just draft major bits. Yeah, broad brush strokes and
then go away again. And I always involve myself at
varying levels with the choreographer and their creative
team, just as a critical friend and a sounding board.
And so there's no surprises. And do you think you do that
kind of process because of what you've learnt as a
choreographer? Absolutely.
That's what you. Would have wanted.
Yeah, and also I've seen it fail so many times, even on my what
you know, I've, I've, I've commissioned things and not been
that supportive. I've learnt this over time.
Of course this. This is what works.
So yeah, I think it's really important and I really love
setting people up for success, of course.
And I love, I've certainly enjoyed with, you know, done it
with Soph Jess and Morgues with Helen, Helen Pickett, just
having them, having those really fab artistic evolved
conversations about, you know, I'll often watch a rehearsal and
and ask a choreographer, hey, tell me, you know, what were
you, what were you doing in that rehearsal?
What was it about from that can bring anything?
You know, it could be about I was just getting through the
scene or I was trying to think of loved you out or I'm trying
to tell this bit of story or I'm trying to work out this solo and
I love having those conversations and sometimes I
can as a critical friend, I can just help a bit.
You know, I remember with Sophie, she was having this idea
about the character of James the 6th, James the first, James the
6th and that we have. And she said, oh, just how to
depict him or should we have it more again?
And just we were just finishing our catch up and on the way out
she went, I mean, we were even thinking of having him as a
balloon. And I went, well, that's
interesting. And she went, oh, I said, well,
I don't know what, what does that do for you?
Well, she has created the most beautiful image of James as a
balloon, as a baby. And it's this lovely little
theme where Mary has a balloon that she's holding and Elizabeth
the 1st is in the background with this balloon that gets
popped at the end. And it's just.
But, you know, Sophie had the idea.
I had nothing to do with it. But I just love those moments
where you can just go, well, yeah, I mean.
Explore that. Don't throw that idea away.
Let's talk about it. It might be shit.
Yeah, and that's fine too. You know, she did ask as well if
she could use my dog on stage, which I was very happy about,
but I said I can't get him out in the morning, let alone get
into the pitch 7:30 every night. That must be very exciting.
And for choreographers out there to be able to have that, that's
that safe environment because it means you, you can be free in
your thoughts as a creator. And you need those safe
parameters around you so that you can run the risk of being
shit. Yeah.
And you know. And just even if it's just
having the conversations, sometimes that's just enough.
Yeah, I love sort of, you know, sometimes just sitting down with
creative, some dancers or anyone and just, you know, if they do
an eye roll and I'm like, go on. What's that one about?
You know, they'll tell me something and it's probably
something I've seen or fell or heard before, which I might be
able to help with. And then sometimes it's
something I've never encountered before and I'll just be like,
oh, that's interesting. All right.
And what, what might we do there?
So, yeah, you can probably hear. I really love what I do because
it just, I never know what the day will be ever.
It's lovely. On a day-to-day, for our
listeners out there on a day-to-day, what is the director
of Scottish is Normal Day? There is not a normal day,
that's what's great. But essentially, yes, I do go to
a place of work. We've got incredible purpose
built studios in in Glasgow, just down the road from where I
live. They are remarkable.
They are incredible studios and a wonderful space with all of
our technical staff are there as well.
So we rehearse often in sets and things like that.
Oh, amazing. But I think I'm also, I was made
CEO in 2015. So there's a kind of a really
holistic viewpoint of my day. I'll often, I'll often be
focused on the functions of the day, what's the company needing
to achieve that day? We're rehearsing new cast who
needs to be going on, and I'll be working with the artistic
team who's led by Ollie Ride out, you know, working with him
very closely about what do we need to achieve, what the
specifics. But then in the background, I'm
perhaps also strategizing around new works and keep those on the
boil. And then working with my
executive team and my senior leadership group, which I find
really rewarding too because, you know, we need to raise funds
for this. We need to position ourselves
globally. We need to be listening to our
communities to hear what it is that they're feeling and
sensing. How does that show up on our
stages? It's all of those things.
And the easiest way to explain it is I approach it as one job
not to. It's a job.
It's just about leadership, really.
Because what got added in, what's when you became the CEO,
Yeah, what's that part that got added in?
Is that the funding, is that the looking into the society and the
your areas and is that? When that got added on into your
job. Yeah.
And the previous CEO departed and we were, we were in the
middle of a tour and I was interim for a good few months,
good 6-7 months. And I remember saying to them,
how's that search going? And the chairman at the time was
like, it's going all right. But also we're not searching
that hard as well. We're sort of looking at what's
happening and, and whether a new model might work, right.
And but I had to apply. I was invited to apply for that.
Yes. What that new model would be.
So in a way it yes, that part of it is a little bit around
advocacy governance. Right.
I'm sure that, you know, we're working with our partners.
Scottish Government are big, big primary funders for us and
strategizing on our tours. I don't do it alone.
I've got an incredible team. I've got a great wingman in
Stephen Roth, my executive director.
The really quick way to describe it as well is my job is
someone's name needs to go in the papers when we've done
really, really well, and someone's name needs to go in
the papers when we've done something really, really
terrible. And it's mine both times.
OK. Yep, you know I take full
responsibility for everything we do.
Whether that be artistic, whether by financial, whether
that be whatever, Yeah. Absolutely.
But ultimately I share that with the most incredible team.
I really do. Yeah.
I wouldn't have been here as long as I have without having
that. Really.
Of course, yeah. I love it, though.
That ability to. I tell you what it does, Paul,
is it means the art leads the company every time.
There is, there is no question the art leads every single time.
We chose for our 50th anniversary, we chose to produce
a new original full length ballet every year for five years
and we did it amazing, which is massive.
It is massive. It needed, it needed the head of
the organization to be going. We are doing it no questions and
that's how it's achievable or part part of how it's
achievable. But that's amazing to to be able
to say that, you know, the art itself is what is leading the
company. That's amazing.
At every point we, when we ask that question all the time, you
know, when we, when we have challenges, funding challenges,
how will this impact the art? What will the art need to do to
face this challenge just as it should be?
Chris, I think we should try and round off now.
I'm going to have some little quick pop questions to ask you.
Tell me. OK, so you can answer them as a
dance, you can answer them as a director, as a choreographer,
however you deem. OK.
Yeah, OK. So my first question is, what is
the most amazing venue you have performed in?
Oh no. Can I have two?
Of course you can. There were the Heredita Atticus
in Athens, that open air Amphitheatre, absolutely
incredible. There's nothing like it.
And more recently, and it's, it's just because it's very
close to me, was the Saint James Theatre in Wellington in New
Zealand. I just taught the company there
and it was so lovely because that was a, a real Crucible for
me to learn my craft and to bring Scottish ballet there and
perform on that stage. That was pretty nice.
So those two theatres? Fantastic.
Lots of people have said whether it be in Athens, but those open
air amphitheatres are just. Amazing.
When we we were doing this one late there and I remember the
girls just standing in their lines.
It was really traditional production.
One of the wings just went crashed.
Yeah, the wind picked up. Oh my God.
Yeah, it was pretty, pretty hairy, but it was good fun.
Do you have or did you have growing up a favorite dancer?
Growing up, I would say Nuriev. Right.
Yeah. Oh, and Leroy from fame.
What was it about Nuriev? I, you know, it was seeing a man
dance so beautifully. And I remember thinking it being
beautiful. Like it wasn't manly and it
wasn't, it wasn't that 100% masculinity.
It was real beauty, Yeah. Like Anthony Dowell.
Yeah, beautiful as well. Yeah.
First theatre or dance production you ever saw?
And I believe it was Giselle and I believe it was Northern
Ballet. And I think I kept saying, when
do they talk all the way through?
And I tell you the other thing I remember was it was all, you
know, that Act one's all Dingley Dell countryside.
And then the shock when the curtain went up on Act 2 and I
was like, hang on, where's all the cardboard cut out trees and
the and the little cotton is. This a mixed program.
I remember that beat. I was like, oh, that's
different, that sense of theatre.
Loved it. Yeah, favorite ballet or dance
production you have ever seen? Oh.
Paul, I can't answer that. Yes you can.
Oh. Fuck that's really tough.
Favorite. Do that one again.
Favorite. Dance.
Favorite ballet or dance production you've ever seen?
Oh man. Because lots of the time it
doesn't have to be the best production.
It has to do with where you were in life when you saw it or who
performed it. Or yeah, OK, what I'm going to
go for here is probably, as with my emerging artistic director,
hat ONS. It's many years ago and I was at
the Paris Opera and I saw a ballet called MC Catores Sussi M
Encore by Krezlakage, and I was blown away.
It was radical. It's just 12 men and it's an
essay on masculinity and it is brutal.
And I just remember getting to the end and going, I think I'll
probably need to see all of that again.
And it sparked to me, I remember thinking, God, if I ever become
a director, I'd love to bring that work.
And I did. And I did it at the Edinburgh
Festival with Scottish Ballet and we toured it to New York.
Wow, wow, that's incredible. What is the last piece of music
or song you listen to today? I.
Don't even know why I was listening to it.
It was the red Hot Chili Peppers.
Give it away, give it away. OK, fantastic.
It's better than Leanne Cope's answer.
She came from her children's party.
It was Baby Shark. That's a, that's a great
question, Paul. That's a really.
Good one. Yeah, really good.
Who has been your favorite teacher?
Whether it be company class, school, open class, Who has been
that teacher? Norman Morris.
I mean, there's lots of people, but look, I'm going to say
Norman, he was so important to me at a moment in my life,
probably 17 or 18. And that man had no judgment on
anybody. And I would just go up to his
office and sit down. I'd be up there for hours
talking with him and as the former director of the Royal
Ballet. And he would just speak so
openly and about his own life. And I remember him talking about
how frightened he was as a director and how he talked
about, I mean, he didn't say impostor syndrome, but that's
what he was communicating. And he, he would share that
much. But then I loved that he was
interested in me and what I was going through and feeling and,
and it was more than choreography.
It it really was kind of life lesson stuff, Yeah.
My favorite question now. A memorable time you made a
mistake or forgot an entrance on stage.
Oh God, 1 I get what a really easy 1 to reach for.
I just joined DMB and we were doing Swan Lake and I was in the
quarter ballet. But I've been given this special
little role where the Prince calls for everyone to drink and
I was chosen to come on with a tray and one glass for him.
So I'd go to the centre of the stage, he'd take that glass and
cheers everyone and it was a big long mind scene.
Then everyone drank and then he gave me back and then I walked
off and I was standing there and then the music happened and I
remember just my eyes widening as everyone was cheersing and I
was still standing at the back. It reminded me, I look back.
Do you remember? Have you ever seen Acorn
Antiques? Oh.
My God, this stupid sitcom thing that Victoria Wood did and this
woman coming on into ATV show, she's meant to be carrying a
tray and she's forgotten it, so she just minds it.
And I just remember, I remember looking at The Prince and it was
Rex Harrington from National Ballet of Canada guesting.
But I did that again. Can I tell you another one?
Please. I this is probably an even
better one. Again, very early on, and it was
Ronnie Hines Coppalia. And in Act 2, obviously the
friends are just doing Doctor Coppalis's house.
And there's the dolls that sit around and that you sit stock
still for the whole thing. And I was soldier doll standing
at the back on a bicycle seat, so I could just rest a little
bit. And all I had to do, and I could
probably do this, describe what I had to do.
My only move was to salute in three counts, to lift the hand
up to my forehead 1-2 and then put it down 3123 and just keep
doing that. Oh.
Yes, yeah. Clockwork and that's all I had
to do in the whole 25 minutes on that day.
And then again, I could just, I just remember thinking, I'm
standing here for ages, like, and then the curtain came down.
I love it. Like, Oh no.
Oh my God, it's completely switched off.
I'd just gone somewhere and we were on Show 27 in somewhere.
Oh, I think I've just gone somewhere else in my little
brain. Oh my God.
It's just that feeling. It's just going like, Oh, no,
yeah, there you go. Oh my God, I've had that switch
off thing sometimes in class where you sometimes find
yourself on the second side in glisses and you're like.
Did I do the first side? You've just kind of gone on to
autopilot. You're like we've done tondos
and glisses on the right leg. How did I?
Totally, Absolutely. I'll bet you've heard some
corkers, haven't you? Oh yes.
Oh yeah. God.
Sadly, that question was only added last season.
So my guests of the first season, I didn't get to ask them
that question. So I didn't get to ask Alfreda
Thorogood that question. Oh.
She'd have had some really good. Ones I should I should just call
her up and like, my God. I mean the stories actually told
on her episode were incredible anyway.
But like, I would love to hear things going wrong back then.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. All right, final question.
What is the best premier party or last show party you've ever
been to? I've just been to it.
It was the opening of Mary Queen of Scots that was the best one
because it did. It tipped all the boxes for me.
I was so proud of everyone, the entire company.
It was incredible, Yeah. How long is it running?
It's on. We open in Glasgow again in
three or four weeks time, September, and it carries on.
We go tour Aberdeen, Inverness and then back to Edinburgh in
October. So yeah.
And then watch this space. I think we'll see it at a
theatre near you soon. Well, probably not near you.
Near you people listening. Down South, hopefully we'll see.
Chris, thank you so much for joining me today.
It has been lovely catching up with you.
I've loved it, Paul. It's it's like old times.
It's been really great, so thank you so much for being a guest on
the podcast. You're welcome.
And thank you all for listening to another episode of Drinks at
the Bar. If you have enjoyed the episode,
please give us a little rating and share with your friends.
Chris, take care. Bye now, bye bye.