Well, here we are, Season 3. We're back.
Are we back? Are we back on the script?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, do that again.
She's awful one already and action.
Hello and welcome to Drinks at the Bar, a podcast where we
breakthrough the 4th wall and discuss everything about dance
and the theatre industry. My name is Paul James Rooney, a
dancer, choreographer and dance teacher based in Copenhagen, and
I am your host of Drinks at the Bar.
And today, we welcome back the wondrous beauty that is Damien
Lee Sterk. Oh, you're too kind.
Hi, everybody. I'm Damien Lee Sterk, director
of the Dancers Studio London, classical ballet teacher and
actor with the Royal Ballet. Here we will discuss everything
from hearing backstage stories, touring shenanigans, to deeper
issues like body image training, the reality of being a freelance
dancer, and much more. With guest professionals, we are
here to share our knowledge, experience, and help you with
any questions or problems you may have about dance and
navigating the dance world. Hi, Denise.
Hi my darling, how are you? I'm good.
How are you? Oh, it's like first day back at
school vibes, isn't it? It's a little, it's like very
exciting, but a little bit strange.
I had to make sure I had all my accoutrement for the the mic and
the adapter and set up my laptop.
It's it's very exciting. It is, it's very exciting.
Or first day back at school, as I always used to remember after
the summer holidays, everybody would wear white to try and show
off their tan that they got over the summer break.
Oh well, actually I do have a summer tan, but as usual I'm
head to toe black. Well, I actually managed to get
a lovely tan this year as well. We went to, well, after I went
to London and saw you, which was absolutely amazing.
I went to where did I go? What's it called?
Croatia, which was beautiful. Like so many people have
recommended going to Croatia to me and they always say, oh, the
water is beautiful and all of that.
Seriously, like without sounding cheesy, it did look like a
postcard, like the water was so blue and clear and it was just
stunning. It was so beautiful.
So I could recommend Croatia to anybody.
Lovely. But now I'm back in Copenhagen
and teaching and. Back to work.
Marvellous. Yeah, I was at the gym this
morning and then came back for this recording session.
So a day of work. I have a nice gin and tonic to
start us off. Same, but I'm actually drinking
out of the can. You're a lady with your glass
and your eyes. I'm drinking straight out of
that M&S can, which is love. Cheers.
Oh that feels good. And may I just add that it is a
slim line tonic? Oh, mine's not good job.
I did a nice little cycle ride around the city as well today
so. But it is a double.
Oh, I think it's verging on a triple.
I spilt a bit when I was pouring it in, so I thought, oh, oh, I
missed some of the gin so I put some more in.
Oh well. Well done.
It's medicinal anyway, so. So here we are, Denise Season 3.
Yes, season 3, I know, and just as Lisa Kudrow announces season
3 of the comeback. But this isn't really a comeback
for us, to be honest, because we we never really went away, did
we? I.
Know exactly she's managed to actually create something and do
it every 10 years. I think that's fantastic.
Such a cool idea. Love, love, love.
Lisa Kudrow. She's so funny.
So I've just rewatched season 1 and season 2 in preparation for
season 3 coming out. I think it comes out maybe
beginning of next year. But yeah, very exciting.
Congrats. Congrats, Lisa.
Congrats if you're listening well as it is the first episode
of season 3, I thought that today's episode should all be
about the number 3. Oh, that's very Sesame Street of
you, babe. We also have a letter.
Or is it just sponsored by the the number 3?
Just the #3 the Holy Trinity. Fair enough.
Sylvie, Darcy and Denise. Why thank you.
That is that is the Holy Trinity.
That's that's correct. I conquer.
All right, well I have prepared some little questions, so I have
sent you a little document. Yes, I have received said
document and ready to rock'n'roll.
Well, let's just fire away. I will start with my first
question for you. So let's start easy.
Tell me three things that you need to do before you do a show.
OK, that I need to do, and in no specific order, warming up,
whether it's a dance show or an acting performance.
I still like to prepare my body. And that would manifest in
different ways. Obviously there'd be more, more
like a classical ballet bar if it's a dance show.
But for acting, I just like to get the blood moving.
It might, it might even be, and quite possibly usually is, a
trip to the gym in the Piazza Covent Garden before signing in
and then crack on with the rest of the ritual.
Which leads me onto the second. So it.
Could be simple as doing just some hopscotch in the courtyard.
One likes to roll one's ankles in the correct way, not as I
have previously done in the school playground and sprained
my most beautiful foot, the left foot for that very reason for
ligaments have created a beautiful aesthetic.
But roll the ankles, you know, anyway, we don't need to go.
Everybody knows what a, you know, a classic standard warm up
is. The second would be my own
makeup. And we've discussed this on
earlier seasons, how for me and I think also for you and for
other artists, it's a chance to kind of have some space.
You know, we're surrounded by people all of the time.
There's noise all of the time. So getting to put your makeup on
or even having your makeup done, but doing your own makeup, you
have that 20 minutes, half an hour, or in my case to two to
three hours. No, I'm joking, joking, not
joking. If you know, you know, the most
glamorous one to ever exit the dressing room.
I like, I like that time and also it allows you to kind of
start thinking about what you're about to do, you know?
Focus. Getting character focus,
etcetera. And then the other thing that I
always like to do, I always like to check online the time of the
performance. Oh yeah.
Sometimes we're so used to like a 230 matinee and a 730 show.
Sometimes if we have like a school matinee, it can be at
12:00. So if you go autopilot that you
would arrive very late. So I always like to check online
what time the show is. And also when I get to stage
draw and I sign in, I like to check the casting.
Not so much for the actors because the actors do every
performance. So for us it doesn't change.
But for the the dancers, I like to know, you know, who's going
to be my Princess since this evening because we have
different relationships with different artists.
So it's nice to know before you step on stage who who you're
working with. So yeah, those would be my my
three things. I kind of agree with the show
thing like finding out what time the show is because even though
you know what time it is, it's that kind of like 8 / 10
tiffness of like I need to double check so I'm not late
even though I know the show is at 3:00 I just have to also.
Exactly. It just, it reassures you
doesn't. And especially if you have two
shows, you know, the likelihood is that once you've gotten out
of costume and you've relaxed in the dressing room for 5 or 10
minutes, put back your, you know, regular clothes.
You're going to go out for food or get some fresh air.
So it's just nice to keep a track of the time because that
will then dictate what happens your routine for the evening
show. So you have to kind of think,
right, I've got two hours, So what do I need to do to achieve
what I like to do before a show? Moving on.
Moving. On right, let me ask you a
question. Three things that are always in
your handbag dance bag. I literally I wrote these
questions ages ago and made myself not look at them so I
could try and like force myself to forget.
Like a surprise. Like a surprise and I actually
have forgotten great. I always whether I am going to a
show or going to a class or actually don't even have a show
that day or anything, just going to the gym, I will always in my
bag. I will always have a dance belt.
I will always have a pair of 11 W Sancha flesh flatties.
Uh huh. And a phone charger.
Yes. I mean, I think for those who
may not dance carrying the which is effectively underwear, an
extra pair of underwear, but it's not a dance support for
those who may or may not be familiar, something to support
the male dancer that you wear under tights or joggers or just
give you a bit of extra support when you're moving around when
you're dancing. And I definitely understand that
because you just never know, you may get a call out of the blue
saying, Paul, there's a casting coming up.
You'd be perfect for it. I don't suppose you're free to
pop in. It's in an hour.
I know it's short notice, and then you can just go in.
And so I get all of that. And also like, of course I can
go to a casting without a dance belt.
But for me, yeah, it's if I get that situation that you just
said with a, with a casting or for example, I don't know, it
was my show off and I get called in to do so.
Whatever the reason, if I have my dance belt and my dance shoes
with me, it takes away some nerves.
There's something on me which is a little bit like home.
So I you know what I mean. Def takes away a barrier and
also those both of those items are super lightweight.
They're not going to take up any space in your bag.
So they're very easy to carry around.
And absolutely the phone charger.
In fact, this morning Alan asked me if I had gone to the gym with
my phone charger because he needed a charger and I was like,
I didn't bring it because my phone was fully charged.
Then he then had to return to grab his his charger because he
has a very long day. And it's also their first day
back at school. So those are three good items to
have in your in your Michael Kors.
Yeah. Actually talking about dance
belts, I just was, I'll just bring that up because someone
working in musicals, not everybody has grown up with a
dance belt. Like, you know, going to White
Lodge, I'll give her my first dance belt when I was 11 years
old and have been wearing it ever since.
So it's kind of like second nature to me.
But someone asked me what it was for as an adult, you know, like
I don't. Is it just for support?
Is that the only reason? And I had to explain to them
that it's also to do with in the ballet world, when you're in
tights, it kind of makes you a Ken doll to kind of mute
outlines of shapes. That's the most PC way of
putting it. No, it's true.
It does create that kind of Ken Doll shape.
Absolutely. So it it is also for the
aesthetic of a dancer in tights as much as it is for the support
that, you know, a male performer may may need for sure.
Oh yeah. I remember my first dance
support. I was probably same age 11 or 12
at Yorkshire Ballet seminars in Oakley and they all such
nostalgia. They always had a dance shop
that I visited every single day because it was just so lovely to
have access to this dance shop every day in between classes.
And I remember an older dancer, only a few years older than I
was at the time, suggested, oh, maybe it's time because I, I
must have just been wearing like, you know, my Marks and
Spencer's briefs or something. The way it's still Marks and
Spencer. 'S can't beat Marks and Spencer
anyway. CNA.
My CNA briefs, No, back to the dance shop, back to Yorkshire
Ballet seminars. And because I came from a local
ballet school where predominantly all girls, so with
a female teacher. So that communication, you know,
wasn't, you know, it didn't reach me until I was surrounded
by other male dancers. So I yeah.
So it's funny, isn't it? And you remember those first
time scenarios? But also it's definitely more of
a ballet thing because for example, fifth position,
everything needs to be out the way.
So you're legs can, you know, cross at the top of your inside
thighs and you know, doing battery everything needs to be
lifted out the way. Which is why a dance belt is
also there if anyone was wondering.
Yeah, especially with like you and I, we love to overcross.
Well, and I also do love an Ansha Seas and an Ansha Cato, so
it's a must. A must.
I didn't know we were doing an episode on dance belts.
Now you know. All right, babes, so three steps
that you are really good at. You know that look really good
on you always. Always gosh well I've chosen 3
steps that I love to execute and I feel because I love doing
them, which isn't always the case, that they also look good
on my physique, you know, tall and limi, you know.
So my first pick I've chosen, and these may or may not
surprise you, I don't know because I'm definitely an Adagio
girl, but I haven't listed Adagio on here at all.
So #1 is a Ron Versay. Oh yeah.
Although only really on one side which?
Leg. Which leg?
Stepping onto my right leg with my left leg behind.
Yeah, exactly you. And the reason why I've chosen a
Ron Versay is because if you fully commit to a Ron Versay, it
feels amazing that suspension before you start to kind of
tombay off that standing leg. I just love it.
But you really have. That ecstasy.
It really does and you really have to commit.
And I see so many poorly executed Ron Versa because
people think it's a PA Relevae with the leg and attitude kind
of shuffle around the corner, you know, pad of boration.
Make it kind of a turn as well. They're making it like a pure
wet and attitude feeling. And you know, in French, you
know, Ron Versae needs to spill and so you are spilling out of
that. It's that ecstasy feeling that
you need to get to as far as you can and before you spill out of
the glass or whatever, like fill that glass to the very, very,
very top. Absolutely.
It feels, it feels very lovely to do next.
I've chosen anything petty. Allegro.
I always loved Teti Allegro at school I just.
And even for a tall dancer, I can move very, very quickly,
which is I think why I loved it. But I remember I didn't always
love the quick steps. And I remember I really hated
having to do Brizes Hated. And it wasn't until a teacher
saw me do a breeze and was really complimentary.
And then it just completely reprogrammed my brain.
I was like, Oh my God, I actually, I've just been
complimented on something that I thought I was terrible at.
And so that moment kind of flicked a switch.
And I absolutely, I mean, I don't, I don't adore doing
breeze A's, but I enjoy them. I certainly enjoy them from that
moment, which just goes to show you the importance of that kind
of teacher student moment it was.
Positive. Positive.
What's it called? Positive feedback.
It's unreal. So important.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have a bit of a love for
the Breeze. And then my last option is Jete
Alonse or, you know, Jete Anton or you know, around the room.
You know, yeah. Cuba, Jete.
Yeah, And the reason why I have chosen that as my last option is
because I'm not a virtuoso or wasn't a virtuoso dancer.
You can keep your double sworded bar soda Basque.
I don't care for Tauren Lair, you know, never interested me.
But flying around a room especially, I think if you're a
male dancer and you're supple, flying around a room with
control and flexibility and speed.
And when you're In Sync with the pianist, it's again, it's such a
freeing, powerful moment. And you have to be quite brave
for those moments if you're not so inclined to be that virtuoso
dancer because you're so exposed.
And I do, when I think back about, you know, how it, how it
used to feel at the peak of being a classical dancer, those
moments kind of come to the, the forefront of my mind, you know,
flying through the air with, you know, with, with speed, control,
elegance, rhythm and power. So that's why I've chosen that
step. Yeah.
But I completely agree because I'm also, you know, I'm not a
double tour, double soda boss kind of person, but that that
step during the kuberjetes or Jetty Alon says, whatever you
want to call them around the room was the time where I could
be, quote UN quote, a manly dancer.
I could do a manly step and it again exactly what you said they
were. I found some of the boys who
were good at those soda bars can double tour things when it got
to those jetty alonzos. Yeah, they could do them.
Yeah, but they weren't as musical as I was when I did it
or their their jetty wasn't, as you know, long lived and
flexible and the placement wasn't as good.
Like it was something that suddenly oh, I can do a manly
step that these other manly boys can't do as well kind of thing.
Yeah, to say relationship. We agree.
Totally agree. So they're my 3 now, whether or
not they look good on me. But The thing is, I mean, come
on, it's with everything in life.
You wouldn't like it if you were bad at it.
Yeah, that's true. I.
Mean, I do like playing pool and I'm awful at it, but I find it
fun. Yeah, I mean, there is that I
suppose, but I think I'm going to stick to my three choices.
I feel confident enough that I can make all of those things
look good and. I'm sure you do a mean Tom liye
as well. You know, something I actually
do. But that's for.
That's for the time. That's for the episode on on
adage in the centre. Next, moving on, let me ask you
one of your questions. Hopefully you've forgotten, so
it's going to come as a complete surprise.
Three things that students do when you are teaching that
annoys you. Please, just please just take to
three. I can tell I had had a glass of
wine. I was like, right, let's write
these questions. OK?
Three things students do that annoy me.
Well, first has to be turning away from the bar.
Oh, preach. OK, I think let's let's just RIP
the Band-Aid off and do this quickly, turning away from the
bar, asking too many questions. Wait, I think sorry to interrupt
but I think just explain point by point.
So turning away from the bar? What do you mean by turning away
from the bar? OK, yeah, turning away from the
bar. So basically we are the old
school method, ISTDRAD at the Royal Ballot School.
All of these methods you were taught to finish and turn
towards the bar. So you face the bar to get to
the other side in between exercises.
That's just the etiquette of the classroom and it's kind of just
what you do because it's a half sutanu and you the majority of
the time do a sutanu that way. It's very rare that you do a
reverse sutanu, which would be turning away from the bar.
So it's kind of just automatically putting into the
body that that's what we do in ballet kind of thing.
And then it kind of bugs me. When we finish an exercise, I
give some corrections, go right the other side, and people just
like kind of turn away from the bar.
I'm like, yeah, it's like walking under a ladder.
You just don't do it. I totally agree, and for those
who attend my classes and workshops, they have certainly
heard and they look at me sometimes like I'm crazy.
But it is. It's a classroom, it's a studio
etiquette, and if you turn away from the bar, you know it's not
the end of the world. But it does unsettle.
It's the end of your career though.
Extremely bad luck. No it does.
It does give you an unsettled feeling as a teacher, but
certainly you and I, I can't speak for all of all of the
teachers in the world, but for you and I, or for those of our
generation, the etiquette was turned towards the bar and I
still, I still teach that way. My second thing has to be asking
too many questions and I want my class to be a place where you
can ask questions and you're relaxed.
And it's I don't want it to be this old school place where
we're all scared to talk to the teacher and it is not.
However, I do feel sometimes that we've gone a little bit too
far the other way and we're asking questions about
everything and just try, please just try it.
And then I will sort out your question.
Like silly things, where are we doing something?
Oh, how do I do that step? Like try it and then I can help
you. I can't literally grab your leg,
put it in front of you and physically do the step forward.
Some things you just have to try and then we can, you know what I
mean? Lots of the time there's all
these questions and it's done through being nervous or
apprehensive about trying something new or trying my
choreography. And I get that.
But we are in, we are doing a physical thing.
You need to do it before I can. You need to put some paint on
the canvas before I can, yes, help you, if that makes sense.
You know what I mean? You can't just stand there and
keep on asking me questions. We need to do it.
Yeah, and I think I totally agree.
And I think, you know, perhaps some students it's it shows
great eagerness to want to learn.
But in that moment, you know, it's understanding that the
teacher has to keep the flow of the class moving along, keeping
everybody warm. And there's a structure to the
the pace of the class that, if interrupted by too many
questions, literally can derail the whole class.
But it but it is also that whole kind of thing about like, can
you just try, just try it? Yeah.
Like, yeah, we've spoke about it before that a classroom and the
studio needs to be a safe space. And that's what I really try and
create with with with my manner and demeanor when I teach.
So by me trying to create this safe space, I'm trying to give
you an environment where you can try it, fuck up and fall over,
and then we can talk about it instead of you asking a billion
questions before you even try, if that makes sense.
Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Just try.
I would say the last thing is put your hand over your mouth
when you're yawning. Yeah, I agree.
I understand that a yawn is not that you're necessarily tired.
A yawn is because there's maybe a lack of oxygen in the room,
because we're all dancing, all that kind of stuff.
I understand that you're not being rude.
You're not. You're not tired.
You're not showing me that you're bored.
I get it. I know that that's not what
you're showing me. But you standing there and
yawning while I'm setting an exercise, it's not very polite.
Like if you went from the corner and did your peri exercise and
you looked over to the teacher and I was just yawning while you
danced, how would you feel like it goes both ways.
So and also you would not sneeze and not cover your mouth.
It's the same thing like just just the human being cover your
mouth when you your. Yeah, some awareness, isn't it,
is whether you and that doesn't directly translate to the studio
either. Just if you're yawning, cover
your mouth regardless. Yeah.
So that's one thing that kind of drives me and say when I teach.
Yeah, I agree. I agree.
I agree, and there are many, many more.
OK, well three general corrections all dance students
need to hear. OK, yeah, General.
OK, so I've written down to understand what it means and how
it feels to pull up and activate your core and support your own
body. Because I think if you can't or
you don't understand what we're asking when we say pull up or
can you feel your stomach and back working together to support
whatever way we're explaining what we need from that student.
If you have no idea what it feels like.
And that's up to the teacher to find a way to make sure that the
student understands what we're talking about.
But without that, without the activation of your body, you're
not going to, you're not going to execute any of the steps
correctly because you need to have that understanding, that
fundamental knowledge of how to hold yourself to support the
exercises. So that would be one key
correction I have also written. I'm laughing at myself now.
The importance of articulation of the feet.
In other words, Jessica, point your feet.
Point your feet. You know, I spend a lot of time
at the bar talking about and in the centre, but particularly at
the bar with many, many multiple Tondu Gliese Batman, whatever
exercises the articulation of the feet and not not just to
create pretty feet, which it will because it's all about the
strengthening and the articulation and the angle and
why the heel needs to be presented at the top because the
turnouts coming from the top of the leg.
So if the turnouts coming from the top of the leg, it's going
to translate down fully through that stretch leg.
The heel therefore should be on top etcetera, etcetera,
etcetera, but also to help support the Allegro when you get
into the center and also support the weight placement when you
need to do that Tonlye or when you need to, you know, do that
one verse say the articulation. And people forget that no matter
what dancing you were doing, 99% of the time you were standing on
your two feet. Yeah.
So those two feet, those ankles, those calves, those Achilles,
they need to be strong. They, they are the base of
everything you were doing. So you cannot have weak ankles.
No, no, no. And I think, you know, as a
teacher, you find your that that is certainly something.
Well, all of these points are points that you will say in
every single class every single time without fail.
And I think perhaps for some students that you may see a lot
or frequently, I think it sounds repetitive, but you have to
remind people, we could say it 1000 times and still there'll be
people in that classroom that are not, are not fulfilling what
we've asked for. So you have to remind, you have
to remind, you have to teach, you have to coach, you have to
prepare. And these are just fundamental
corrections that apply to every single person, whether you're
using the articulation of the fee or not.
Sometimes we forget, sometimes we need to do a little bit more
so. Sometimes you've just shouted
another correction in the room, so you're maybe concentrating.
Oh, yeah, my left shoulder needs to be down.
And then maybe you're forgetting you.
Exactly. Yeah.
Exactly. And my last would be to listen
to your music and allow it to support you, particularly if you
have live music, which is a real luxury, but nevertheless to have
as you're listening to music. I think we, we as dancers tend
to switch off because we obviously we're, we're
processing the exercise in our mind almost, almost in real time
because we only have what, 2030 seconds per demonstration if the
teachers demonstrating the exercise.
So you absorb that very, very quickly.
So you're still processing it as you're, you know, fulfilling
that exercise. And it's very easy to just not
hear the music. Yeah, because you're there's a
lot of information coming in and out of your head.
And you've also got to remember, listen to the music and dance.
Yeah. I always, always encourage my
dancers to, particularly when we repeat exercises, You know, I
would always encourage them to say, you know, to feel Now
you've got the exercise. It's part of your muscle memory.
You don't have to rely on remembering that the exercise.
Listen to your music, enjoy the music, enjoy yourselves in this
studio space and let the music support the dynamics also of
what this exercise is about. So that.
Yeah. Could not agree more.
Could not agree. More they're my 3.
I had three steps that I like. I'm asking you now, Poppy
McDougal, 3 steps you don't like.
To watch, what to do? To both it's.
Probably the same answer. Let's do.
Three steps you don't like to do.
Double soda Basque. Yeah.
Double tour and. Double assembly.
Flick flax. I hate a flick Flack.
Yeah, yeah. I hate a flick Flack.
What's the point? I don't get the point.
I don't mind a flick Flack, but I wouldn't necessarily want to
be given one in a class scenario.
It wouldn't. I don't understand the point.
You never do a flick Flack in the centre.
You never do like and a chassis pad, a buray and a double turn
and down and a flick Flack and like flick Flack is at the bar
in a random class and that's the only time you'll ever do it, so
what's the point? Let's leave this for an after
dark flick Flack special, shall we?
Yes, boom, done. Three steps you don't like to
see on stage, let's say now. I'm not a big fan of people
doing an attitude. Devonne Uvert Same.
I don't think it's very pretty, I just don't think it's a nice
line. No, it's very hard to make it
look beautiful, I think. Yeah.
I would say I don't want to say double toss and double soda
masks because when they are done artistically, they can be
phenomenal. They just have that connotation
to me of this kind of like, and now I am a man and I do these
steps in my solo, but when they get done beautifully by someone
who Yosvani for example, like someone who has that artistry as
well as the capability of being able to do the tricks, then they
get stunning. So I don't want to say those,
however however I will and I do. I'm not a big fan of that.
That thing where you jump over your leg, is that called a
reveltard? Oh, yes, yes, yes, yeah.
I think it looks a little bit when it's it's always used in a
kind of Fiddler on the Roof Oliver setting in a musical.
And now I jump over my leg character character.
But also it's in ballets every so often.
They don't do it with a bent leg.
They they jump over the leg. Both legs are kind of straight.
I also I just always think it doesn't look aesthetically or
choreographically nice. It looks like a trick.
Whereas a double third bar score, a double tour can look
like choreography and can become part of the dance.
I always think the reveltard just looks like and now I'm
doing the. Trick, yeah.
I wonder if kind of in its day that it was impressive enough to
offer that kind of very masculine aesthetic on stage.
And now we've kind of outgrown, you know, because, you know, the
male dancers that are coming out of these schools are exquisitely
put together with the nice and the flexibility.
So that that to me feels like an old fashioned trick now, whereas
before, you know, male dancers were perhaps a little bit more
stocky and less refined in their alignment.
I don't think that's a terrible thing to say.
I think if we look at archival footage, you know, the evidence
is there. And so therefore that kind of
step looked pretty much in keeping with what the selection
of dancers were were available at that time.
But yeah, I agree. Is that two or three you've
done? That was 2 and I think the third
one and it can look beautiful. Buffalo Wings.
It can. It can look beautiful, but it's
also to save the girls hops on point.
Like, yes, it can look nice, but Oh my God, you have to be so
good and you have to, oh, I mean, it's just, it's just
horrible to knowing what these girls go through with point work
and just like doing the like Shonge bonds on points kind of
OK, fine. But when they're going from the
corner and they're on one foot, hop, hop, hop, hop, hop, hop.
What is that? Is that Giselle?
Giselle. Yeah, it happens in Giselle.
Yeah, I'm like, oh, I, yeah, it's, it can be very pretty, but
I just, I, I feel the pain. I agree it it must be quite
scary and and painful unless you're a very seasoned
professional. But also for me, it's the look
of the foot because in order to execute that you have to be back
of you're not showing that beautiful arch or that, you
know, the extension of the foot. You actually have to kind of
slightly contract. Yeah, you have to make your foot
look kind of worse than it is. It's not pretty.
It's not. It's not a pretty, so I
understand why. And if you're not blessed with
like the most amazing feet, holding back of the foot is just
going to look. Awful.
Yeah, Weetabix. Yeah, right.
Not not an ounce of milk on that Weetabix foot, dry as a bone.
All right, three reasons that Sylvie is the greatest ballerina
of all time off the top of your head.
Bam. Gosh, I mean, no, I really, I
didn't have to think about this at all, but I had to minimize to
three kind of key points because she clearly is the most
exquisite. Yeah.
I'm. Sorry if you need to the
podcast. Silver game is the greatest
ballerina of all time and it's a fact.
It's not an opinion. Absolutely.
And that's not to take away from all of the phenomenal.
Oh my God, no. Classical dance.
They are also phenomenal. But I think we we strongly feel
that our Queen is. Everybody can say it about Meryl
Streep. They always go on.
Meryl Streep's The Goat. Yeah, yeah.
So I don't feel bad about being able to say that Silver Game is
the GOAT. No, I don't either.
And on that point, so 3 reasons why Sylvia Guillem is the
greatest ballerina of all time I've written.
Exquisite technique, but with that phenomenal body and
facility it it all. It's all part and parcel because
without the body, you know, and the facility, all of the things,
it's like the perfect frame. My second point is I adore her
no nonsense attitude and you know, a lot of people she did
have the opinion of being rude, which I don't think was the
case. I think she was.
She was sensitive and direct. And if you've watched any of her
interviews or documentaries or footage, you know, even on
YouTube, she's very clear. If she is saying no to
something, she's saying no because there hasn't been a
reason provided for the request. Why do you want me to dance it
that way? Just because somebody else has
danced it that way? Well, that's not good enough
because I'm a different person. So give me a logical
explanation. Because it was at a time where
you didn't ask questions. I think that's the reason why
she got this kind of reputation of being there.
Wasn't she called Madam not? Mademoiselle not.
Yeah, pussies. Sorry, Exactly because it was at
a time where you didn't speak up, especially in in England as
well, you know, the British way of being.
And suddenly this Parisian woman comes in and goes, no, why do I
have to do it like that and ask the questions where nowadays I
think how she was probably a lot of people are like that, asking
questions because it's we now want people to ask questions.
We want we want people to be inquisitive and do it their own
way, put their own spin on the character or whatever it is.
Exactly. And I think it's really
interesting now, like you say, because I, of course, I do
appreciate the importance of legacy and how those original
works translate through the generations of dancers.
And we need to keep, you know, the essence and the purity of
what that said choreographer wanted.
But as we evolve as artists and dancers, physically and
mentally, I think it's really important that there is an
opportunity to explore. And it's OK to change certain
elements, even in the great works without compromising the
intention of the choreographer. And I think that was her mindset
of tell me why. If there's no reason behind it,
then there's no reason why I should or should not.
You know a. 100% yes. So, and my third option, because
I don't want to go down a rabbit hole and dedicate the rest of
because I could talk about her forever.
I have written her exploration of work and breaking the
tradition of what a ballet dancer could achieve.
Because yes, in the 90s she was at the height of her career, she
was exploring very modern works and people were looking at her
like she's crazy. Because you see that this
perfection of a classical ballerina wanting to do modern
and sometimes for the time outrageous exploration of modern
contemporary choreographers. And she kind of broke the
barrier and and the mold and, and offered an opportunity for
other dancers to be more exploratory.
Is that is that work? No, 100% because she did.
There was. And now you look at, you know,
the resident choreographer of the Royal Ballet Company in
England being Wayne McGregor. Exactly.
You know that that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for what
Silva Guillen did with her trajectory and what she did with
her career. Like, it wouldn't.
I'm sorry. She brought contemporary
contemporary dance into the limelight of being a ballerina,
if that makes sense. Yes, and it may have been part
of her, you know, conscious decision of exploring less
classical work, you know, as she matured.
But but with her body and physicality, I'm certain she'd.
Put her physio. And her physio, Mr. Leon Bao,
who can be found at Covent Garden and is available Tuesdays
and Saturdays. No, I'm never going to be able
to get an appointment. He's always going to be fully
booked, which I want. I want him to be fully booked,
but I also want priority access. Please leave 3:00 on Tuesdays
for today. Actually, that is my slot.
Yeah, really. Don't ask for 3:00 because
that's when I like to go. I I agree with you her the way
she started doing contemporary work as a ballerina was ground
breaking. I completely agree with all of
all of you, all three of your points.
Marvelous. Moving on, let me ask you 3
people that have inspired you or changed the way you look at
dance theatre performance? Jesus.
Jesus, not Jesus. When Jesus say yes, OK, not
Jesus. Was that Michelle Williams?
That song. Yes, with Beyoncé and Kelly,
they all decided to do a little reunion on a single about Jesus
I should do. I think my first choice has to
be my contemporary teacher at school, which was Andre
Davilia's. Because as someone who came
from, you know, the Royal Ballet School and Elmhurst as a ballet
dancer, suddenly going into contemporary class, I think I
had a preconceived idea of what contemporary was and had this
kind of idea that it was rolling on the floor, self indulgent
art, art kind of thing. That's what contemporary dance
was. And then Andre Devilliers showed
me what, what it meant, what contemporary dance, what modern
dance meant. And as him being a the same
height as me, a short guy who was very flexible, he could just
show me opportunities of not job opportunities, but opportunities
of what somebody built with my body can do and achieve.
And it doesn't have to be Bally Bally Bally Bally Ballet.
I can do this. I can also move like this.
And it just completely changed the trajectory of my life and
changed how I thought about movement and dance completely.
So Andre de Villiers, I think he still teaches contemporary now
after Elmhurst moved up to Birmingham, he went to Lane and
I think he still teaches contemporary at Lane.
Oh, wow, Arts. So if you're listening, anybody
at Lane, pay attention to every word that Andre Davilia says.
He is fantastic. I would say my second one
probably comes as no shock is Will Tuckett.
He is the best person. He, he is, how do I say this?
Firstly, artistically and things he said to me in the rehearsal
room, which if you listen to a previous episode when I
interviewed Will, you can hear what I'm discussing and his how
he was in the rehearsal room and everything.
There are things he said about character development and stuff
like this, which was fantastic and I found really helpful.
But I will also say that I think he is probably the my favorite
person I've worked for. So like he's been my best boss,
if that makes sense. He just, I was a human being and
it was. And that's really important.
It showed me that a boss doesn't.
He showed me what a 21st century boss looks like in the theatre
world. And that obviously changed the
way I look at everything in the arts world because.
Yeah, just how he was leading a company and leading a
performance and how he was creating and how he was treating
us and talking to us and the room that he created and
everything. The way he created a safe space
to work and create and everything is something that I
really strive to do myself as to.
And then third, Denise, no, I think it's a lady called Sorella
England who is who was a prima ballerina in the world Danish
ballet. And she is now she teaches, but
she also goes round the world teaching everybody how to be
Madge in a silk feed and everything.
And we were doing a ballet class, an open class that she
was teaching, and she really taught me how to incorporate
everything that I have from contemporary dance and modern
dance and bring it to my ballet class without looking like I'm
trying. I'm being a modern contemporary
dancer, if that makes sense. Like, I'm still being true to
what classical ballet is, but I'm bringing some aspects of it
because obviously we've all been, I'm not being bitchy.
We've all been to those ballet classes and we've seen a
contemporary dancer choose to do things in a certain way in the
ballet class to make it look like a contemporary class
Whatever. Sorella really managed to show
me and teach me how to keep it true to what classical ballet is
supposed to be, but bring these movement qualities and these
intentions from contemporary into the classical ballet.
One little example I can think of, it might sound really
stupid, but like, you know when you were at the bar in ballet
class, you have your arm in second for 4 1/2 hours and I
would notice that she would have these small undulations in her
arm or be ever so slightly moving it.
It wasn't because it was held in second, but it was alive.
And that slight difference of holding it rock solid still or
holding it but keeping it alive, that was such a finite detail
that I took away from her and she's noticed it.
And she looked at what I did with my arm in 2nd and she said
whatever anyone says, don't stop doing that.
And it's that stayed with me. Lovely and great advice.
Yeah, she's fantastic. Even even that one example,
Yeah, resonates. All right, great.
I will ask you 3 stories like novels or movies that you think
should be made into ballets. Well, this was quite a difficult
question. I really had to think about it.
Also, choosing something that hasn't evolved into a ballet or
a theater performance. But I'll give you the options
that I came up with. But they're really based on
films that I really enjoy to watch over and over again.
So my first choice would be the hours, really.
In really simple terms, you could have a three at ballet
representing each of the three women.
And let's have Philip Glass orchestrate the.
Peas. I literally sent a proposal to a
theatre in Denmark about this idea.
Voila, great mind. I want 80% of the.
But no, I completely agree. Doesn't.
And if any of you out there decide to steal this idea, there
will be consequences. But it's the whole, I completely
agree, and we cannot go down this route and talk about the
hours of ballet for a whole episode.
I will just say, however, I will just say the three storylines
happening at the same time, which happens in the movie is
not something that is done in theatre or in ballet.
You never tell a story. Leave it, start telling another
story and then go back to the story that you were telling
before, like it doesn't happen. And it could be really
interesting to play with that idea in ballet, in dance, in
theatre. Next idea please.
Agreed. Stamped Call Me by Your Name.
I think the love story would be interesting and who doesn't love
a bit of drama? And I think again, it's now it's
a favorite film of mine, but it's not a film that I can watch
frequently because I find it so touching.
And for those who who may have seen the film, there's a scene
at the very end where Elio is basically crying and it's winter
time. It's stark.
The the fireplace is burning. He sat by the fireplace.
And he's, for me, Timothy Chalamet, the actor, manages to
portray an emotion that I think most of us who have fallen in
love young have has it has felt. And I just think that it'd be a
nice kind of dramatic, romantic, playful, slightly tragic
storytelling vibe. Yeah.
Because I don't think, I mean it's not really told that much
in in ballet specifically a love story.
Yeah. That like you said, the kind of
when you're that young and you don't really know if you have
fallen in love or have you fallen in infatuation or have
you fallen in love with the idea of someone, Are you actually in
love? And you know, the tension and
the longing, and also it's set amongst different seasons.
So it starts in a very joyous kind of summer, you know, and
then it kind of translates into winter, you know, representing,
let's say, loss and heartbreak. No, I think, yeah, that would be
that would be a good option. But like I say, I have to really
be in the mood to watch that film because emotionally it does
take you on that journey. I think you have to be ready to,
if you're sensitive, you have to be ready to, you know, absorb
those feelings. It's very easy to to get into
that story storyline. And my last option I think would
be a new option. There's a book called 30th State
by a new author by Alan Gammel. It's his debut debut novel and
it's a provocative political thriller set in a world where
Britain become India's India's 30th state, where the narrative
explores things of power, colonial legacies and shifting
global dynamics. And I think, you know, amongst
all of our friends, our network of close friends, we have
choreographer, movement, director, hair and makeup.
You could definitely create this film.
To be honest though, I would love for someone mainstream to
make a ballet with more Indian dance incorporated into it.
I actually would love to see that more in, you know,
somewhere like the Royal Ballet, English National Ballet, a big
company because lots of those fusion things I did when I was
very, very young, a contemporary fuse with Katak and stuff.
They're all very project based and stuff and but to see an
Indian inspired dance performance on a massive ballet
company could be very interesting movement vocabulary
wise. Definitely.
And let me tell you, when we were living in India, you know,
I had the privilege of being invited to an Indian classical
Dance Academy. It is so strict.
I mean, I know classical ballet is very strict and disciplined
and folk, my goodness, I was in absolute awe.
Every detail to the angle of the eye looking at that finger.
I mean, it's just exquisite. And yeah, it would be lovely to
see. It would be lovely to have a big
dance scene in 30th state. Alan may need to rewrite some
chapters in order to to create a dance moment, but I'll have a
word. Oh my God.
All joking aside, actually would love to read that book.
Well, I'll speak to the author and let's see if we can get you
because it's actually it's only available at the moment.
It's it's published by Bloomsbury India.
So it's available in India right now.
But let me see if I can score you a coffee.
But seriously, it does sound really interesting anyway,
right? Selfless plug there.
There you. Where are we on the questions?
2 left. One for you, one for me, three
favorite. I love that you're looking at me
surprised because you don't know what question I'm going to ask
you, even though they're your questions.
Three favorite musicals. OK, 2 pop into my head.
OK, we do 2 to watch and one to do Chicago.
I know people have started to say that it's not Bob Fosse,
it's Anne Rankin's idea of Fosse, blah blah blah.
I don't care. Still amazing.
Chicago, yeah, It's a fantastic musical.
The version that everybody is doing nowadays, all in black,
very minimalist stage with the band on stage and us doing the
choreography and letting the choreography speak for itself.
And that minimalist set up where we are telling a story and you
have nothing to rely on apart from your own talent and hard
work is just. Yeah, it really is.
And I have to say, I do feel very lucky to have done that
movie with Renee Zellweger. I actually was talking about the
movie yesterday to tours because one reason why I think that that
movie works so well in comparison to Sweeney Todd, Les
Mis, Phantom, Hairspray, all these other musical movies that
are out there, some of them are better than others and there's
lots of reasons why Les Mis, for example, is not the best and
Sweeney Todd is not the best. However, one reason why I think
Chicago the movie is really good is because it's so different
from the stage show, right? Because the stage show was so
minimalist and we stood there and there was 6 chairs on stage
and we go pop 6 squish, blah blah blah.
We don't have all the other inmates, we don't have prison
bars, we don't have all this kind of stuff.
So the movie could do something different.
Yes. Whereas with Les Mis for
example, it is basically the stage show in a film.
Uh huh. And I thought, I think that's
why Chicago, in my opinion, worked so well, was that the
director could actually do something else.
Anyway, that's going off topic. I would say my second favorite
musical is Notre Dame de Paris. Oh fabulous, fabulous.
Yes, agreed. And I think it's after now, you
know, after working in musicals and seeing a lot of musicals, I
know there are triple threats and, and there are people who
are very, very talented. But what I love about Nachadam
de Paris is that you let the singers sing, the dancers dance
and the acrobats do acrobatic stuff.
Like, everybody is doing what they're good at instead of,
like, no shade to anyone, a singer trying to dance.
So all the big good dancers have to dumb down the choreography to
make the lead singer look good. Like, what's nice and not so
done to parry is that everybody shines.
Yeah, because everybody is doing hard stuff, if that makes sense.
Yeah. It really elevates the the
production, doesn't it? And it's just, again, it's not
literal the the production. It's not olden day sonography.
You know, I don't have a cathedral in front of me.
Everything is kind of minimalist as well.
Oh my God am I really going? I didn't realize this until I
started listing things off that. Obviously I like minimalist
musicals but love that production.
I saw it in London with Tina Arena.
Oh amazing. And when Tina Arena did it,
correct me if I'm wrong, I think the Parisian cast all came over,
Patrick Fiori all came over and performed it in the West End.
And they only changed Esmeralda to be sell tickets in English
person. Also someone who speaks English.
So I saw Tina Arena and it was fantastic.
So yeah, not Saddam de Paris, not Hunchback of Notre Dame
people. That is a very different thing.
Not Saddam de Paris. I think if you if you don't know
the musical, the two famous songs from the musicals, one of
the ones released as a single by Céline Dion live for the one I
love. And then there's a one, the
cathedral, which is just. Yes, that'll be going on later.
Stunning. Anyway, third one and it's
purely selfish and from experience, Kinky Boots was just
so much fun. Hard work but fun and a life
changing experience to be in. That's my third one, and just
briefly, why was it life changing?
I think it was the first time I played homosexual on stage.
All right, I was just laughing at that, me asking you to
briefly explain like. Briefly, the clock is ticking.
No, I think it was like one of the first times I had played a
gay person. First time I had I was on stage
playing a homosexual, which was as someone who, if you're
listening, someone who is not homosexual.
Whenever I am on stage playing a role, it's always then another
thing I have to think about, you know?
Oh, and I also have to be straight.
Does that make sense? Like, you know, oh, I'm playing
this villager, I am playing a greengrocer, I am playing a
murderer, I am playing whatever I am playing.
Plus he is straight. Whereas in this I was like, oh
cool, don't have to think about sexuality or anything like that
because that's a given. Like it was kind of an, I don't
know, that was something that was really nice.
But what I really loved about it was the fact that I got to bring
3 passions of mine which like dancing, singing and playing
with makeup all together in a production.
Because I've loved playing with makeup, especially after working
in Tivoli, having to play all these characters and monsters
and whatever, and now having to do that here and yeah, and play
with makeup. And I had to be a drag queen and
my costume was this color, so knowing and my hair was this
color, but I could do what I want with my makeup as long as
it fit the character and fit the hair.
So I could change my makeup every single day.
And it was fantastic. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of
fun. A lot of fun.
So that was, that was fun. All right, love.
Final question. My final question is just so our
little listeners can maybe get to know you a little bit better.
Three favorite TV shows. Well, if I could have, I would
have put Sex in the City three times because for those who know
me, they know how much I love Sex in the City and I, it is
literally legitimately a show that I can watch forever and not
get bored. So definitely Sex in the City I
don't want to discuss. And just like that, the only
thing I'll say on that actually is I was very happy to have the
chance to revisit these characters with new dialogue.
For somebody who's a die hard fan, it was really interesting
and exciting to see Carrie and the girls in a new.
Setting. But that's who it's made for.
The program is made for people who love Sex and the City and
want to see these people do more.
And you're going to watch it whether it was.
Bad or not for sure for sure. So 100% Sex and the City.
I've written down Downton Abbey and I did love it.
I do love it. I don't I did go through a phase
of rewatching and I think there will be a final movie coming
this winter. I think I.
Haven't seen the movies. I'm not sure on the dates.
So it couldn't, it could very well be early next year.
I don't know. But I think what I what I meant
by Downton Abbey is, yes, it was a favorite.
It had its moment. But I also like that attention
to detail with period drama. I love that.
And Maggie Smith. And of course, the great Maggie
Smith. And I do remember just as Season
1 was coming out and we were getting that buzz of Downton
Abbey, this new show, I was due to cover some classes for Craig
Turbyfield, who was teaching like a ballet fitness bar in a
fabulous studio in Shoreditch. And so I went one day to to
watch his class because I'd be teaching it the weekend after.
And Lady Mary was in the class. So that was exciting.
But it was just at the very start of of, of the fame of the
show. So I was like, oh, that was.
Like for a posture or something. Yeah, and she does have great
posture. So it's paying off.
And my final option now I've I've made a selection and I've
put scandal because I love Kerry Washington as Olivia Pope.
I was. Going to say, isn't that Kerry?
Washington yeah, she's fabulous. But I do like a kind of drama
ties political show as particularly a series, you know,
Line of Duty. I've just watched Hostage on
Netflix. I said the one that I just
watched with Doctor, whatever her name is.
Yes, Foster, Yeah. Is it foster or foster?
I don't know. What's her name?
Suranne Jones. Is that her real name?
Yes, Doctor Foster, and she's a Northerner.
She's a Northerner and she was in Coronation Street.
So you know, I almost put correlations.
Oh, but hostage people, if you're looking for something to
watch on Netflix, Hostages is good.
I thought it was good. It was great.
She plays our Prime Minister and it will ruin really get the
taste buds going for when you can finally order your 30th
stage. It really is hitting that genre
of political thrillers. You'll really enjoy.
You'll love the book, and actually, as I start to think
about it, I also loved The Good Wife.
Oh, The Good Wife and the good fight both.
Of them both fantastic, yeah. Although I miss in the Good
Fight, I know it's about other people but I missed the lead
from The Good Wife when I'm watching the Good Fight.
Yeah. Yeah.
We digress.
Digress. Well, that was episode one.
Season 3 has officially started I.
Mean that's crazy Season 3. Thank you all for listening.
Welcome back and we hope you enjoy the upcoming season.
Please remember to tell a friend and recommend our podcast to
your fellow dance friends and colleagues.
And to random people on the street, I mean, everybody loves
a podcast. So tell the person that serves
you at Costa or Cafe Nero. Absolutely both.
All right, sweetheart. All right, my darling, welcome
back. It's lovely back in the studio
with you and I can't wait to explore more of Season 3.
Who'd have thought it? Season 3, All right, love, thank
you very much for today and speak to you again soon.
Bye, darling. Bye, love you lots.
Bye bye.