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Well, here we are, Season 3. 
We're back. 

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Are we back? 
Are we back on the script? 

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
OK, do that again. 

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She's awful one already and 
action. 

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Hello and welcome to Drinks at 
the Bar, a podcast where we 

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breakthrough the 4th wall and 
discuss everything about dance 

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and the theatre industry. 
My name is Paul James Rooney, a 

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dancer, choreographer and dance 
teacher based in Copenhagen, and

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I am your host of Drinks at the 
Bar. 

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And today, we welcome back the 
wondrous beauty that is Damien 

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Lee Sterk. 
Oh, you're too kind. 

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Hi, everybody. 
I'm Damien Lee Sterk, director 

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of the Dancers Studio London, 
classical ballet teacher and 

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actor with the Royal Ballet. 
Here we will discuss everything 

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from hearing backstage stories, 
touring shenanigans, to deeper 

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issues like body image training,
the reality of being a freelance

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dancer, and much more. 
With guest professionals, we are

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here to share our knowledge, 
experience, and help you with 

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any questions or problems you 
may have about dance and 

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navigating the dance world. 
Hi, Denise. 

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Hi my darling, how are you? 
I'm good. 

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How are you? 
Oh, it's like first day back at 

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school vibes, isn't it? 
It's a little, it's like very 

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exciting, but a little bit 
strange. 

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I had to make sure I had all my 
accoutrement for the the mic and

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the adapter and set up my 
laptop. 

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It's it's very exciting. 
It is, it's very exciting. 

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Or first day back at school, as 
I always used to remember after 

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the summer holidays, everybody 
would wear white to try and show

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off their tan that they got over
the summer break. 

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Oh well, actually I do have a 
summer tan, but as usual I'm 

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head to toe black. 
Well, I actually managed to get 

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a lovely tan this year as well. 
We went to, well, after I went 

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to London and saw you, which was
absolutely amazing. 

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I went to where did I go? 
What's it called? 

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Croatia, which was beautiful. 
Like so many people have 

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recommended going to Croatia to 
me and they always say, oh, the 

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water is beautiful and all of 
that. 

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Seriously, like without sounding
cheesy, it did look like a 

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postcard, like the water was so 
blue and clear and it was just 

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stunning. 
It was so beautiful. 

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So I could recommend Croatia to 
anybody. 

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Lovely. 
But now I'm back in Copenhagen 

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and teaching and. 
Back to work. 

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Marvellous. 
Yeah, I was at the gym this 

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morning and then came back for 
this recording session. 

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So a day of work. 
I have a nice gin and tonic to 

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start us off. 
Same, but I'm actually drinking 

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out of the can. 
You're a lady with your glass 

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and your eyes. 
I'm drinking straight out of 

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that M&S can, which is love. 
Cheers. 

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Oh that feels good. 
And may I just add that it is a 

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slim line tonic? 
Oh, mine's not good job. 

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I did a nice little cycle ride 
around the city as well today 

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so. 
But it is a double. 

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Oh, I think it's verging on a 
triple. 

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I spilt a bit when I was pouring
it in, so I thought, oh, oh, I 

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missed some of the gin so I put 
some more in. 

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Oh well. 
Well done. 

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It's medicinal anyway, so. 
So here we are, Denise Season 3.

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Yes, season 3, I know, and just 
as Lisa Kudrow announces season 

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3 of the comeback. 
But this isn't really a comeback

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for us, to be honest, because we
we never really went away, did 

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we? 
I. 

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Know exactly she's managed to 
actually create something and do

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it every 10 years. 
I think that's fantastic. 

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Such a cool idea. 
Love, love, love. 

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Lisa Kudrow. 
She's so funny. 

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So I've just rewatched season 1 
and season 2 in preparation for 

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season 3 coming out. 
I think it comes out maybe 

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beginning of next year. 
But yeah, very exciting. 

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Congrats. 
Congrats, Lisa. 

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Congrats if you're listening 
well as it is the first episode 

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of season 3, I thought that 
today's episode should all be 

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about the number 3. 
Oh, that's very Sesame Street of

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you, babe. 
We also have a letter. 

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Or is it just sponsored by the 
the number 3? 

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Just the #3 the Holy Trinity. 
Fair enough. 

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Sylvie, Darcy and Denise. 
Why thank you. 

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That is that is the Holy 
Trinity. 

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That's that's correct. 
I conquer. 

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All right, well I have prepared 
some little questions, so I have

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sent you a little document. 
Yes, I have received said 

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document and ready to 
rock'n'roll. 

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Well, let's just fire away. 
I will start with my first 

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question for you. 
So let's start easy. 

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Tell me three things that you 
need to do before you do a show.

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OK, that I need to do, and in no
specific order, warming up, 

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whether it's a dance show or an 
acting performance. 

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I still like to prepare my body.
And that would manifest in 

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different ways. 
Obviously there'd be more, more 

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like a classical ballet bar if 
it's a dance show. 

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But for acting, I just like to 
get the blood moving. 

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It might, it might even be, and 
quite possibly usually is, a 

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trip to the gym in the Piazza 
Covent Garden before signing in 

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and then crack on with the rest 
of the ritual. 

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Which leads me onto the second. 
So it. 

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Could be simple as doing just 
some hopscotch in the courtyard.

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One likes to roll one's ankles 
in the correct way, not as I 

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have previously done in the 
school playground and sprained 

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my most beautiful foot, the left
foot for that very reason for 

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ligaments have created a 
beautiful aesthetic. 

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But roll the ankles, you know, 
anyway, we don't need to go. 

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Everybody knows what a, you 
know, a classic standard warm up

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is. 
The second would be my own 

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makeup. 
And we've discussed this on 

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earlier seasons, how for me and 
I think also for you and for 

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other artists, it's a chance to 
kind of have some space. 

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You know, we're surrounded by 
people all of the time. 

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There's noise all of the time. 
So getting to put your makeup on

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or even having your makeup done,
but doing your own makeup, you 

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have that 20 minutes, half an 
hour, or in my case to two to 

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three hours. 
No, I'm joking, joking, not 

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joking. 
If you know, you know, the most 

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glamorous one to ever exit the 
dressing room. 

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I like, I like that time and 
also it allows you to kind of 

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start thinking about what you're
about to do, you know? 

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Focus. 
Getting character focus, 

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etcetera. 
And then the other thing that I 

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always like to do, I always like
to check online the time of the 

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performance. 
Oh yeah. 

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Sometimes we're so used to like 
a 230 matinee and a 730 show. 

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Sometimes if we have like a 
school matinee, it can be at 

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12:00. 
So if you go autopilot that you 

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would arrive very late. 
So I always like to check online

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what time the show is. 
And also when I get to stage 

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draw and I sign in, I like to 
check the casting. 

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Not so much for the actors 
because the actors do every 

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performance. 
So for us it doesn't change. 

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But for the the dancers, I like 
to know, you know, who's going 

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to be my Princess since this 
evening because we have 

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different relationships with 
different artists. 

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So it's nice to know before you 
step on stage who who you're 

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working with. 
So yeah, those would be my my 

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three things. 
I kind of agree with the show 

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thing like finding out what time
the show is because even though 

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you know what time it is, it's 
that kind of like 8 / 10 

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tiffness of like I need to 
double check so I'm not late 

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even though I know the show is 
at 3:00 I just have to also. 

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Exactly. 
It just, it reassures you 

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doesn't. 
And especially if you have two 

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shows, you know, the likelihood 
is that once you've gotten out 

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of costume and you've relaxed in
the dressing room for 5 or 10 

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minutes, put back your, you 
know, regular clothes. 

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You're going to go out for food 
or get some fresh air. 

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So it's just nice to keep a 
track of the time because that 

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will then dictate what happens 
your routine for the evening 

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show. 
So you have to kind of think, 

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right, I've got two hours, So 
what do I need to do to achieve 

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what I like to do before a show?
Moving on. 

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Moving. 
On right, let me ask you a 

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question. 
Three things that are always in 

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your handbag dance bag. 
I literally I wrote these 

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questions ages ago and made 
myself not look at them so I 

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could try and like force myself 
to forget. 

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Like a surprise. 
Like a surprise and I actually 

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have forgotten great. 
I always whether I am going to a

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show or going to a class or 
actually don't even have a show 

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that day or anything, just going
to the gym, I will always in my 

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bag. 
I will always have a dance belt.

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I will always have a pair of 11 
W Sancha flesh flatties. 

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Uh huh. 
And a phone charger. 

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Yes. 
I mean, I think for those who 

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may not dance carrying the which
is effectively underwear, an 

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extra pair of underwear, but 
it's not a dance support for 

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those who may or may not be 
familiar, something to support 

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the male dancer that you wear 
under tights or joggers or just 

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give you a bit of extra support 
when you're moving around when 

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you're dancing. 
And I definitely understand that

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because you just never know, you
may get a call out of the blue 

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saying, Paul, there's a casting 
coming up. 

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You'd be perfect for it. 
I don't suppose you're free to 

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pop in. 
It's in an hour. 

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I know it's short notice, and 
then you can just go in. 

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And so I get all of that. 
And also like, of course I can 

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go to a casting without a dance 
belt. 

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But for me, yeah, it's if I get 
that situation that you just 

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said with a, with a casting or 
for example, I don't know, it 

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was my show off and I get called
in to do so. 

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Whatever the reason, if I have 
my dance belt and my dance shoes

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with me, it takes away some 
nerves. 

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There's something on me which is
a little bit like home. 

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So I you know what I mean. 
Def takes away a barrier and 

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also those both of those items 
are super lightweight. 

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They're not going to take up any
space in your bag. 

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So they're very easy to carry 
around. 

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And absolutely the phone 
charger. 

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In fact, this morning Alan asked
me if I had gone to the gym with

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my phone charger because he 
needed a charger and I was like,

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I didn't bring it because my 
phone was fully charged. 

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Then he then had to return to 
grab his his charger because he 

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has a very long day. 
And it's also their first day 

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back at school. 
So those are three good items to

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have in your in your Michael 
Kors. 

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Yeah. 
Actually talking about dance 

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belts, I just was, I'll just 
bring that up because someone 

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working in musicals, not 
everybody has grown up with a 

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dance belt. 
Like, you know, going to White 

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Lodge, I'll give her my first 
dance belt when I was 11 years 

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00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:34,720
old and have been wearing it 
ever since. 

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00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,320
So it's kind of like second 
nature to me. 

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But someone asked me what it was
for as an adult, you know, like 

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I don't. 
Is it just for support? 

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Is that the only reason? 
And I had to explain to them 

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that it's also to do with in the
ballet world, when you're in 

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tights, it kind of makes you a 
Ken doll to kind of mute 

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outlines of shapes. 
That's the most PC way of 

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putting it. 
No, it's true. 

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00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,000
It does create that kind of Ken 
Doll shape. 

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00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,440
Absolutely. 
So it it is also for the 

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aesthetic of a dancer in tights 
as much as it is for the support

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that, you know, a male performer
may may need for sure. 

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00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,760
Oh yeah. 
I remember my first dance 

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support. 
I was probably same age 11 or 12

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00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:30,160
at Yorkshire Ballet seminars in 
Oakley and they all such 

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00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,120
nostalgia. 
They always had a dance shop 

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00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,600
that I visited every single day 
because it was just so lovely to

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00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,480
have access to this dance shop 
every day in between classes. 

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00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:46,600
And I remember an older dancer, 
only a few years older than I 

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was at the time, suggested, oh, 
maybe it's time because I, I 

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00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,560
must have just been wearing 
like, you know, my Marks and 

222
00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:54,200
Spencer's briefs or something. 
The way it's still Marks and 

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00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,360
Spencer. 
'S can't beat Marks and Spencer 

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00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:58,760
anyway. 
CNA. 

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00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,200
My CNA briefs, No, back to the 
dance shop, back to Yorkshire 

226
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,800
Ballet seminars. 
And because I came from a local 

227
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,320
ballet school where 
predominantly all girls, so with

228
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,800
a female teacher. 
So that communication, you know,

229
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,960
wasn't, you know, it didn't 
reach me until I was surrounded 

230
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:19,560
by other male dancers. 
So I yeah. 

231
00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:22,120
So it's funny, isn't it? 
And you remember those first 

232
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,840
time scenarios? 
But also it's definitely more of

233
00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,880
a ballet thing because for 
example, fifth position, 

234
00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:29,360
everything needs to be out the 
way. 

235
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,040
So you're legs can, you know, 
cross at the top of your inside 

236
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,520
thighs and you know, doing 
battery everything needs to be 

237
00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,840
lifted out the way. 
Which is why a dance belt is 

238
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,160
also there if anyone was 
wondering. 

239
00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,680
Yeah, especially with like you 
and I, we love to overcross. 

240
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,240
Well, and I also do love an 
Ansha Seas and an Ansha Cato, so

241
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:52,760
it's a must. 
A must. 

242
00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,720
I didn't know we were doing an 
episode on dance belts. 

243
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:03,320
Now you know. 
All right, babes, so three steps

244
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,400
that you are really good at. 
You know that look really good 

245
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,520
on you always. 
Always gosh well I've chosen 3 

246
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:19,160
steps that I love to execute and
I feel because I love doing 

247
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,120
them, which isn't always the 
case, that they also look good 

248
00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,280
on my physique, you know, tall 
and limi, you know. 

249
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,840
So my first pick I've chosen, 
and these may or may not 

250
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,880
surprise you, I don't know 
because I'm definitely an Adagio

251
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,680
girl, but I haven't listed 
Adagio on here at all. 

252
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,720
So #1 is a Ron Versay. 
Oh yeah. 

253
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,520
Although only really on one side
which? 

254
00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:48,400
Leg. 
Which leg? 

255
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,600
Stepping onto my right leg with 
my left leg behind. 

256
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,840
Yeah, exactly you. 
And the reason why I've chosen a

257
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,480
Ron Versay is because if you 
fully commit to a Ron Versay, it

258
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,760
feels amazing that suspension 
before you start to kind of 

259
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,400
tombay off that standing leg. 
I just love it. 

260
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,280
But you really have. 
That ecstasy. 

261
00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,520
It really does and you really 
have to commit. 

262
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,600
And I see so many poorly 
executed Ron Versa because 

263
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,360
people think it's a PA Relevae 
with the leg and attitude kind 

264
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,120
of shuffle around the corner, 
you know, pad of boration. 

265
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,160
Make it kind of a turn as well. 
They're making it like a pure 

266
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,200
wet and attitude feeling. 
And you know, in French, you 

267
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,640
know, Ron Versae needs to spill 
and so you are spilling out of 

268
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,400
that. 
It's that ecstasy feeling that 

269
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:39,240
you need to get to as far as you
can and before you spill out of 

270
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,520
the glass or whatever, like fill
that glass to the very, very, 

271
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:44,120
very top. 
Absolutely. 

272
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,760
It feels, it feels very lovely 
to do next. 

273
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,760
I've chosen anything petty. 
Allegro. 

274
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,200
I always loved Teti Allegro at 
school I just. 

275
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,560
And even for a tall dancer, I 
can move very, very quickly, 

276
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,800
which is I think why I loved it.
But I remember I didn't always 

277
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,920
love the quick steps. 
And I remember I really hated 

278
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:11,720
having to do Brizes Hated. 
And it wasn't until a teacher 

279
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,320
saw me do a breeze and was 
really complimentary. 

280
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,360
And then it just completely 
reprogrammed my brain. 

281
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,680
I was like, Oh my God, I 
actually, I've just been 

282
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,400
complimented on something that I
thought I was terrible at. 

283
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:25,960
And so that moment kind of 
flicked a switch. 

284
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,400
And I absolutely, I mean, I 
don't, I don't adore doing 

285
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:34,480
breeze A's, but I enjoy them. 
I certainly enjoy them from that

286
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,000
moment, which just goes to show 
you the importance of that kind 

287
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,440
of teacher student moment it 
was. 

288
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:42,240
Positive. 
Positive. 

289
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,600
What's it called? 
Positive feedback. 

290
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,200
It's unreal. 
So important. 

291
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
So I have a bit of a love for 

292
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:53,080
the Breeze. 
And then my last option is Jete 

293
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,040
Alonse or, you know, Jete Anton 
or you know, around the room. 

294
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:57,240
You know, yeah. 
Cuba, Jete. 

295
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,000
Yeah, And the reason why I have 
chosen that as my last option is

296
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:05,800
because I'm not a virtuoso or 
wasn't a virtuoso dancer. 

297
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,320
You can keep your double sworded
bar soda Basque. 

298
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,920
I don't care for Tauren Lair, 
you know, never interested me. 

299
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,240
But flying around a room 
especially, I think if you're a 

300
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,000
male dancer and you're supple, 
flying around a room with 

301
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,960
control and flexibility and 
speed. 

302
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:28,880
And when you're In Sync with the
pianist, it's again, it's such a

303
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:34,880
freeing, powerful moment. 
And you have to be quite brave 

304
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,880
for those moments if you're not 
so inclined to be that virtuoso 

305
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,440
dancer because you're so 
exposed. 

306
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,400
And I do, when I think back 
about, you know, how it, how it 

307
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,160
used to feel at the peak of 
being a classical dancer, those 

308
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:55,000
moments kind of come to the, the
forefront of my mind, you know, 

309
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,440
flying through the air with, you
know, with, with speed, control,

310
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:04,520
elegance, rhythm and power. 
So that's why I've chosen that 

311
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:05,160
step. 
Yeah. 

312
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:08,000
But I completely agree because 
I'm also, you know, I'm not a 

313
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,160
double tour, double soda boss 
kind of person, but that that 

314
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,839
step during the kuberjetes or 
Jetty Alon says, whatever you 

315
00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:17,440
want to call them around the 
room was the time where I could 

316
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,280
be, quote UN quote, a manly 
dancer. 

317
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:25,240
I could do a manly step and it 
again exactly what you said they

318
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,920
were. 
I found some of the boys who 

319
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,680
were good at those soda bars can
double tour things when it got 

320
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,080
to those jetty alonzos. 
Yeah, they could do them. 

321
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,080
Yeah, but they weren't as 
musical as I was when I did it 

322
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,840
or their their jetty wasn't, as 
you know, long lived and 

323
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,320
flexible and the placement 
wasn't as good. 

324
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,160
Like it was something that 
suddenly oh, I can do a manly 

325
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,120
step that these other manly boys
can't do as well kind of thing. 

326
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,480
Yeah, to say relationship. 
We agree. 

327
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,160
Totally agree. 
So they're my 3 now, whether or 

328
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,960
not they look good on me. 
But The thing is, I mean, come 

329
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,000
on, it's with everything in 
life. 

330
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:06,720
You wouldn't like it if you were
bad at it. 

331
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:07,840
Yeah, that's true. 
I. 

332
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,400
Mean, I do like playing pool and
I'm awful at it, but I find it 

333
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,320
fun. 
Yeah, I mean, there is that I 

334
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:21,880
suppose, but I think I'm going 
to stick to my three choices. 

335
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:27,800
I feel confident enough that I 
can make all of those things 

336
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,560
look good and. 
I'm sure you do a mean Tom liye 

337
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,200
as well. 
You know, something I actually 

338
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:32,960
do. 
But that's for. 

339
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:38,320
That's for the time. 
That's for the episode on on 

340
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,360
adage in the centre. 
Next, moving on, let me ask you 

341
00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:45,320
one of your questions. 
Hopefully you've forgotten, so 

342
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,240
it's going to come as a complete
surprise. 

343
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,960
Three things that students do 
when you are teaching that 

344
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,440
annoys you. 
Please, just please just take to

345
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,320
three. 
I can tell I had had a glass of 

346
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:00,320
wine. 
I was like, right, let's write 

347
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:01,320
these questions. 
OK? 

348
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,240
Three things students do that 
annoy me. 

349
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:09,760
Well, first has to be turning 
away from the bar. 

350
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,560
Oh, preach. 
OK, I think let's let's just RIP

351
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,720
the Band-Aid off and do this 
quickly, turning away from the 

352
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:22,440
bar, asking too many questions. 
Wait, I think sorry to interrupt

353
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,360
but I think just explain point 
by point. 

354
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:27,800
So turning away from the bar? 
What do you mean by turning away

355
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,920
from the bar? 
OK, yeah, turning away from the 

356
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,520
bar. 
So basically we are the old 

357
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,880
school method, ISTDRAD at the 
Royal Ballot School. 

358
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:40,080
All of these methods you were 
taught to finish and turn 

359
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,440
towards the bar. 
So you face the bar to get to 

360
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,400
the other side in between 
exercises. 

361
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,680
That's just the etiquette of the
classroom and it's kind of just 

362
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:53,320
what you do because it's a half 
sutanu and you the majority of 

363
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,840
the time do a sutanu that way. 
It's very rare that you do a 

364
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:02,560
reverse sutanu, which would be 
turning away from the bar. 

365
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,640
So it's kind of just 
automatically putting into the 

366
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,200
body that that's what we do in 
ballet kind of thing. 

367
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:15,760
And then it kind of bugs me. 
When we finish an exercise, I 

368
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,240
give some corrections, go right 
the other side, and people just 

369
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:19,800
like kind of turn away from the 
bar. 

370
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,880
I'm like, yeah, it's like 
walking under a ladder. 

371
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,720
You just don't do it. 
I totally agree, and for those 

372
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,680
who attend my classes and 
workshops, they have certainly 

373
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,600
heard and they look at me 
sometimes like I'm crazy. 

374
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:36,880
But it is. 
It's a classroom, it's a studio 

375
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:41,560
etiquette, and if you turn away 
from the bar, you know it's not 

376
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,200
the end of the world. 
But it does unsettle. 

377
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:45,800
It's the end of your career 
though. 

378
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,880
Extremely bad luck. 
No it does. 

379
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,480
It does give you an unsettled 
feeling as a teacher, but 

380
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,640
certainly you and I, I can't 
speak for all of all of the 

381
00:20:55,640 --> 00:21:00,440
teachers in the world, but for 
you and I, or for those of our 

382
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,960
generation, the etiquette was 
turned towards the bar and I 

383
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:11,000
still, I still teach that way. 
My second thing has to be asking

384
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,960
too many questions and I want my
class to be a place where you 

385
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:16,480
can ask questions and you're 
relaxed. 

386
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,960
And it's I don't want it to be 
this old school place where 

387
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,960
we're all scared to talk to the 
teacher and it is not. 

388
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,120
However, I do feel sometimes 
that we've gone a little bit too

389
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:29,960
far the other way and we're 
asking questions about 

390
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,880
everything and just try, please 
just try it. 

391
00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:35,800
And then I will sort out your 
question. 

392
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,000
Like silly things, where are we 
doing something? 

393
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:44,280
Oh, how do I do that step? 
Like try it and then I can help 

394
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,520
you. 
I can't literally grab your leg,

395
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,920
put it in front of you and 
physically do the step forward. 

396
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,480
Some things you just have to try
and then we can, you know what I

397
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,240
mean? 
Lots of the time there's all 

398
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,280
these questions and it's done 
through being nervous or 

399
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,240
apprehensive about trying 
something new or trying my 

400
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:01,880
choreography. 
And I get that. 

401
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,960
But we are in, we are doing a 
physical thing. 

402
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:11,360
You need to do it before I can. 
You need to put some paint on 

403
00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:15,600
the canvas before I can, yes, 
help you, if that makes sense. 

404
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,240
You know what I mean? 
You can't just stand there and 

405
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,440
keep on asking me questions. 
We need to do it. 

406
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,280
Yeah, and I think I totally 
agree. 

407
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,000
And I think, you know, perhaps 
some students it's it shows 

408
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,960
great eagerness to want to 
learn. 

409
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,160
But in that moment, you know, 
it's understanding that the 

410
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,000
teacher has to keep the flow of 
the class moving along, keeping 

411
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,000
everybody warm. 
And there's a structure to the 

412
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,960
the pace of the class that, if 
interrupted by too many 

413
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,400
questions, literally can derail 
the whole class. 

414
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,760
But it but it is also that whole
kind of thing about like, can 

415
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,240
you just try, just try it? 
Yeah. 

416
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,560
Like, yeah, we've spoke about it
before that a classroom and the 

417
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,680
studio needs to be a safe space.
And that's what I really try and

418
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,400
create with with with my manner 
and demeanor when I teach. 

419
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,760
So by me trying to create this 
safe space, I'm trying to give 

420
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,120
you an environment where you can
try it, fuck up and fall over, 

421
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,880
and then we can talk about it 
instead of you asking a billion 

422
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,680
questions before you even try, 
if that makes sense. 

423
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,160
Yeah, it makes perfect sense. 
Just try. 

424
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,080
I would say the last thing is 
put your hand over your mouth 

425
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,040
when you're yawning. 
Yeah, I agree. 

426
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:29,080
I understand that a yawn is not 
that you're necessarily tired. 

427
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,240
A yawn is because there's maybe 
a lack of oxygen in the room, 

428
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:33,880
because we're all dancing, all 
that kind of stuff. 

429
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,840
I understand that you're not 
being rude. 

430
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,400
You're not. 
You're not tired. 

431
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,600
You're not showing me that 
you're bored. 

432
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,280
I get it. 
I know that that's not what 

433
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,960
you're showing me. 
But you standing there and 

434
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:47,680
yawning while I'm setting an 
exercise, it's not very polite. 

435
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,440
Like if you went from the corner
and did your peri exercise and 

436
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,360
you looked over to the teacher 
and I was just yawning while you

437
00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:56,000
danced, how would you feel like 
it goes both ways. 

438
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,400
So and also you would not sneeze
and not cover your mouth. 

439
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:04,000
It's the same thing like just 
just the human being cover your 

440
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,320
mouth when you your. 
Yeah, some awareness, isn't it, 

441
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,800
is whether you and that doesn't 
directly translate to the studio

442
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,840
either. 
Just if you're yawning, cover 

443
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,560
your mouth regardless. 
Yeah. 

444
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,080
So that's one thing that kind of
drives me and say when I teach. 

445
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,080
Yeah, I agree. 
I agree. 

446
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,000
I agree, and there are many, 
many more. 

447
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:31,880
OK, well three general 
corrections all dance students 

448
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,120
need to hear. 
OK, yeah, General. 

449
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:39,760
OK, so I've written down to 
understand what it means and how

450
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:44,720
it feels to pull up and activate
your core and support your own 

451
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,600
body. 
Because I think if you can't or 

452
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:52,400
you don't understand what we're 
asking when we say pull up or 

453
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,160
can you feel your stomach and 
back working together to support

454
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,440
whatever way we're explaining 
what we need from that student. 

455
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,280
If you have no idea what it 
feels like. 

456
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,760
And that's up to the teacher to 
find a way to make sure that the

457
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,520
student understands what we're 
talking about. 

458
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:12,160
But without that, without the 
activation of your body, you're 

459
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,120
not going to, you're not going 
to execute any of the steps 

460
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:17,840
correctly because you need to 
have that understanding, that 

461
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,440
fundamental knowledge of how to 
hold yourself to support the 

462
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,680
exercises. 
So that would be one key 

463
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:28,880
correction I have also written. 
I'm laughing at myself now. 

464
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:31,480
The importance of articulation 
of the feet. 

465
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,360
In other words, Jessica, point 
your feet. 

466
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,360
Point your feet. 
You know, I spend a lot of time 

467
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:44,200
at the bar talking about and in 
the centre, but particularly at 

468
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:50,200
the bar with many, many multiple
Tondu Gliese Batman, whatever 

469
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,520
exercises the articulation of 
the feet and not not just to 

470
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,320
create pretty feet, which it 
will because it's all about the 

471
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,520
strengthening and the 
articulation and the angle and 

472
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,480
why the heel needs to be 
presented at the top because the

473
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,200
turnouts coming from the top of 
the leg. 

474
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,720
So if the turnouts coming from 
the top of the leg, it's going 

475
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,960
to translate down fully through 
that stretch leg. 

476
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,400
The heel therefore should be on 
top etcetera, etcetera, 

477
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,080
etcetera, but also to help 
support the Allegro when you get

478
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,600
into the center and also support
the weight placement when you 

479
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,360
need to do that Tonlye or when 
you need to, you know, do that 

480
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:29,640
one verse say the articulation. 
And people forget that no matter

481
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:34,520
what dancing you were doing, 99%
of the time you were standing on

482
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:35,320
your two feet. 
Yeah. 

483
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,120
So those two feet, those ankles,
those calves, those Achilles, 

484
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,080
they need to be strong. 
They, they are the base of 

485
00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:45,560
everything you were doing. 
So you cannot have weak ankles. 

486
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,680
No, no, no. 
And I think, you know, as a 

487
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,480
teacher, you find your that that
is certainly something. 

488
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,400
Well, all of these points are 
points that you will say in 

489
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,200
every single class every single 
time without fail. 

490
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,760
And I think perhaps for some 
students that you may see a lot 

491
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,600
or frequently, I think it sounds
repetitive, but you have to 

492
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,920
remind people, we could say it 
1000 times and still there'll be

493
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,720
people in that classroom that 
are not, are not fulfilling what

494
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,880
we've asked for. 
So you have to remind, you have 

495
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,280
to remind, you have to teach, 
you have to coach, you have to 

496
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,320
prepare. 
And these are just fundamental 

497
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,680
corrections that apply to every 
single person, whether you're 

498
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,080
using the articulation of the 
fee or not. 

499
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,480
Sometimes we forget, sometimes 
we need to do a little bit more 

500
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,240
so. 
Sometimes you've just shouted 

501
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,120
another correction in the room, 
so you're maybe concentrating. 

502
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:34,680
Oh, yeah, my left shoulder needs
to be down. 

503
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,080
And then maybe you're forgetting
you. 

504
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:37,360
Exactly. 
Yeah. 

505
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,120
Exactly. 
And my last would be to listen 

506
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:45,240
to your music and allow it to 
support you, particularly if you

507
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,000
have live music, which is a real
luxury, but nevertheless to have

508
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,320
as you're listening to music. 
I think we, we as dancers tend 

509
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,880
to switch off because we 
obviously we're, we're 

510
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,760
processing the exercise in our 
mind almost, almost in real time

511
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:05,520
because we only have what, 2030 
seconds per demonstration if the

512
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,040
teachers demonstrating the 
exercise. 

513
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,840
So you absorb that very, very 
quickly. 

514
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,400
So you're still processing it as
you're, you know, fulfilling 

515
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,720
that exercise. 
And it's very easy to just not 

516
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,720
hear the music. 
Yeah, because you're there's a 

517
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,720
lot of information coming in and
out of your head. 

518
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,280
And you've also got to remember,
listen to the music and dance. 

519
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,080
Yeah. 
I always, always encourage my 

520
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,680
dancers to, particularly when we
repeat exercises, You know, I 

521
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,200
would always encourage them to 
say, you know, to feel Now 

522
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:36,600
you've got the exercise. 
It's part of your muscle memory.

523
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,080
You don't have to rely on 
remembering that the exercise. 

524
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,960
Listen to your music, enjoy the 
music, enjoy yourselves in this 

525
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,520
studio space and let the music 
support the dynamics also of 

526
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,800
what this exercise is about. 
So that. 

527
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,120
Yeah. 
Could not agree more. 

528
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,760
Could not agree. 
More they're my 3. 

529
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,760
I had three steps that I like. 
I'm asking you now, Poppy 

530
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,640
McDougal, 3 steps you don't 
like. 

531
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,120
To watch, what to do? 
To both it's. 

532
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,040
Probably the same answer. 
Let's do. 

533
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,080
Three steps you don't like to 
do. 

534
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:11,440
Double soda Basque. 
Yeah. 

535
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,960
Double tour and. 
Double assembly. 

536
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,760
Flick flax. 
I hate a flick Flack. 

537
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,520
Yeah, yeah. 
I hate a flick Flack. 

538
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,960
What's the point? 
I don't get the point. 

539
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,880
I don't mind a flick Flack, but 
I wouldn't necessarily want to 

540
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,840
be given one in a class 
scenario. 

541
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,640
It wouldn't. 
I don't understand the point. 

542
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,480
You never do a flick Flack in 
the centre. 

543
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,880
You never do like and a chassis 
pad, a buray and a double turn 

544
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,640
and down and a flick Flack and 
like flick Flack is at the bar 

545
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,400
in a random class and that's the
only time you'll ever do it, so 

546
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,440
what's the point? 
Let's leave this for an after 

547
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,120
dark flick Flack special, shall 
we? 

548
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,480
Yes, boom, done. 
Three steps you don't like to 

549
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,520
see on stage, let's say now. 
I'm not a big fan of people 

550
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,800
doing an attitude. 
Devonne Uvert Same. 

551
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,240
I don't think it's very pretty, 
I just don't think it's a nice 

552
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,360
line. 
No, it's very hard to make it 

553
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,880
look beautiful, I think. 
Yeah. 

554
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,600
I would say I don't want to say 
double toss and double soda 

555
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:17,760
masks because when they are done
artistically, they can be 

556
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,360
phenomenal. 
They just have that connotation 

557
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,880
to me of this kind of like, and 
now I am a man and I do these 

558
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,800
steps in my solo, but when they 
get done beautifully by someone 

559
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:32,240
who Yosvani for example, like 
someone who has that artistry as

560
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,480
well as the capability of being 
able to do the tricks, then they

561
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,560
get stunning. 
So I don't want to say those, 

562
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:46,160
however however I will and I do.
I'm not a big fan of that. 

563
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,520
That thing where you jump over 
your leg, is that called a 

564
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,280
reveltard? 
Oh, yes, yes, yes, yeah. 

565
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:57,200
I think it looks a little bit 
when it's it's always used in a 

566
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,120
kind of Fiddler on the Roof 
Oliver setting in a musical. 

567
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,720
And now I jump over my leg 
character character. 

568
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,640
But also it's in ballets every 
so often. 

569
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,640
They don't do it with a bent 
leg. 

570
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,160
They they jump over the leg. 
Both legs are kind of straight. 

571
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,760
I also I just always think it 
doesn't look aesthetically or 

572
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,640
choreographically nice. 
It looks like a trick. 

573
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,440
Whereas a double third bar 
score, a double tour can look 

574
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,640
like choreography and can become
part of the dance. 

575
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,680
I always think the reveltard 
just looks like and now I'm 

576
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:28,560
doing the. 
Trick, yeah. 

577
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:34,520
I wonder if kind of in its day 
that it was impressive enough to

578
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,200
offer that kind of very 
masculine aesthetic on stage. 

579
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,000
And now we've kind of outgrown, 
you know, because, you know, the

580
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,920
male dancers that are coming out
of these schools are exquisitely

581
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,920
put together with the nice and 
the flexibility. 

582
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:55,720
So that that to me feels like an
old fashioned trick now, whereas

583
00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:00,240
before, you know, male dancers 
were perhaps a little bit more 

584
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,400
stocky and less refined in their
alignment. 

585
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,400
I don't think that's a terrible 
thing to say. 

586
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,840
I think if we look at archival 
footage, you know, the evidence 

587
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,280
is there. 
And so therefore that kind of 

588
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,440
step looked pretty much in 
keeping with what the selection 

589
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,520
of dancers were were available 
at that time. 

590
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,080
But yeah, I agree. 
Is that two or three you've 

591
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,400
done? 
That was 2 and I think the third

592
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,160
one and it can look beautiful. 
Buffalo Wings. 

593
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,280
It can. 
It can look beautiful, but it's 

594
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,880
also to save the girls hops on 
point. 

595
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:40,480
Like, yes, it can look nice, but
Oh my God, you have to be so 

596
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,240
good and you have to, oh, I 
mean, it's just, it's just 

597
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,520
horrible to knowing what these 
girls go through with point work

598
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,760
and just like doing the like 
Shonge bonds on points kind of 

599
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,520
OK, fine. 
But when they're going from the 

600
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,880
corner and they're on one foot, 
hop, hop, hop, hop, hop, hop. 

601
00:32:58,880 --> 00:32:59,960
What is that? 
Is that Giselle? 

602
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,840
Giselle. 
Yeah, it happens in Giselle. 

603
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:07,160
Yeah, I'm like, oh, I, yeah, 
it's, it can be very pretty, but

604
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:14,120
I just, I, I feel the pain. 
I agree it it must be quite 

605
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,240
scary and and painful unless 
you're a very seasoned 

606
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,680
professional. 
But also for me, it's the look 

607
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,360
of the foot because in order to 
execute that you have to be back

608
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,800
of you're not showing that 
beautiful arch or that, you 

609
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,120
know, the extension of the foot.
You actually have to kind of 

610
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,120
slightly contract. 
Yeah, you have to make your foot

611
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,600
look kind of worse than it is. 
It's not pretty. 

612
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,240
It's not. 
It's not a pretty, so I 

613
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,760
understand why. 
And if you're not blessed with 

614
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,080
like the most amazing feet, 
holding back of the foot is just

615
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:43,320
going to look. 
Awful. 

616
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,080
Yeah, Weetabix. 
Yeah, right. 

617
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:52,520
Not not an ounce of milk on that
Weetabix foot, dry as a bone. 

618
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,840
All right, three reasons that 
Sylvie is the greatest ballerina

619
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,640
of all time off the top of your 
head. 

620
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,520
Bam. 
Gosh, I mean, no, I really, I 

621
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,560
didn't have to think about this 
at all, but I had to minimize to

622
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,920
three kind of key points because
she clearly is the most 

623
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:12,639
exquisite. 
Yeah. 

624
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:13,920
I'm. 
Sorry if you need to the 

625
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,280
podcast. 
Silver game is the greatest 

626
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,840
ballerina of all time and it's a
fact. 

627
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,639
It's not an opinion. 
Absolutely. 

628
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:23,360
And that's not to take away from
all of the phenomenal. 

629
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:25,080
Oh my God, no. 
Classical dance. 

630
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:31,400
They are also phenomenal. 
But I think we we strongly feel 

631
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:37,639
that our Queen is. 
Everybody can say it about Meryl

632
00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:38,560
Streep. 
They always go on. 

633
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,040
Meryl Streep's The Goat. 
Yeah, yeah. 

634
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,080
So I don't feel bad about being 
able to say that Silver Game is 

635
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,120
the GOAT. 
No, I don't either. 

636
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,199
And on that point, so 3 reasons 
why Sylvia Guillem is the 

637
00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:52,040
greatest ballerina of all time 
I've written. 

638
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,560
Exquisite technique, but with 
that phenomenal body and 

639
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,280
facility it it all. 
It's all part and parcel because

640
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,800
without the body, you know, and 
the facility, all of the things,

641
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:09,240
it's like the perfect frame. 
My second point is I adore her 

642
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,960
no nonsense attitude and you 
know, a lot of people she did 

643
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,600
have the opinion of being rude, 
which I don't think was the 

644
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:17,600
case. 
I think she was. 

645
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:23,960
She was sensitive and direct. 
And if you've watched any of her

646
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,560
interviews or documentaries or 
footage, you know, even on 

647
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,560
YouTube, she's very clear. 
If she is saying no to 

648
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,400
something, she's saying no 
because there hasn't been a 

649
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,440
reason provided for the request.
Why do you want me to dance it 

650
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,880
that way? 
Just because somebody else has 

651
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,600
danced it that way? 
Well, that's not good enough 

652
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,840
because I'm a different person. 
So give me a logical 

653
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,000
explanation. 
Because it was at a time where 

654
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,080
you didn't ask questions. 
I think that's the reason why 

655
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,840
she got this kind of reputation 
of being there. 

656
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,120
Wasn't she called Madam not? 
Mademoiselle not. 

657
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:02,000
Yeah, pussies. 
Sorry, Exactly because it was at

658
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,960
a time where you didn't speak 
up, especially in in England as 

659
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,160
well, you know, the British way 
of being. 

660
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:13,320
And suddenly this Parisian woman
comes in and goes, no, why do I 

661
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,920
have to do it like that and ask 
the questions where nowadays I 

662
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,400
think how she was probably a lot
of people are like that, asking 

663
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,400
questions because it's we now 
want people to ask questions. 

664
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,880
We want we want people to be 
inquisitive and do it their own 

665
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,840
way, put their own spin on the 
character or whatever it is. 

666
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,440
Exactly. 
And I think it's really 

667
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,800
interesting now, like you say, 
because I, of course, I do 

668
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,960
appreciate the importance of 
legacy and how those original 

669
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,360
works translate through the 
generations of dancers. 

670
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,640
And we need to keep, you know, 
the essence and the purity of 

671
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,640
what that said choreographer 
wanted. 

672
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,320
But as we evolve as artists and 
dancers, physically and 

673
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,520
mentally, I think it's really 
important that there is an 

674
00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:02,800
opportunity to explore. 
And it's OK to change certain 

675
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:10,400
elements, even in the great 
works without compromising the 

676
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:14,920
intention of the choreographer. 
And I think that was her mindset

677
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,160
of tell me why. 
If there's no reason behind it, 

678
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,040
then there's no reason why I 
should or should not. 

679
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:25,080
You know a. 100% yes. 
So, and my third option, because

680
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:30,200
I don't want to go down a rabbit
hole and dedicate the rest of 

681
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,520
because I could talk about her 
forever. 

682
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,920
I have written her exploration 
of work and breaking the 

683
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,280
tradition of what a ballet 
dancer could achieve. 

684
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,480
Because yes, in the 90s she was 
at the height of her career, she

685
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,960
was exploring very modern works 
and people were looking at her 

686
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,160
like she's crazy. 
Because you see that this 

687
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,760
perfection of a classical 
ballerina wanting to do modern 

688
00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:01,920
and sometimes for the time 
outrageous exploration of modern

689
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,640
contemporary choreographers. 
And she kind of broke the 

690
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:09,440
barrier and and the mold and, 
and offered an opportunity for 

691
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,640
other dancers to be more 
exploratory. 

692
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,880
Is that is that work? 
No, 100% because she did. 

693
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,320
There was. 
And now you look at, you know, 

694
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,400
the resident choreographer of 
the Royal Ballet Company in 

695
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,240
England being Wayne McGregor. 
Exactly. 

696
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,800
You know that that wouldn't have
happened if it wasn't for what 

697
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,280
Silva Guillen did with her 
trajectory and what she did with

698
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:33,840
her career. 
Like, it wouldn't. 

699
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:38,120
I'm sorry. 
She brought contemporary 

700
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:43,320
contemporary dance into the 
limelight of being a ballerina, 

701
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,440
if that makes sense. 
Yes, and it may have been part 

702
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,720
of her, you know, conscious 
decision of exploring less 

703
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:52,840
classical work, you know, as she
matured. 

704
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,800
But but with her body and 
physicality, I'm certain she'd. 

705
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:03,480
Put her physio. 
And her physio, Mr. Leon Bao, 

706
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,400
who can be found at Covent 
Garden and is available Tuesdays

707
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,280
and Saturdays. 
No, I'm never going to be able 

708
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:12,960
to get an appointment. 
He's always going to be fully 

709
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:14,840
booked, which I want. 
I want him to be fully booked, 

710
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,880
but I also want priority access.
Please leave 3:00 on Tuesdays 

711
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,800
for today. 
Actually, that is my slot. 

712
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,400
Yeah, really. 
Don't ask for 3:00 because 

713
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:31,120
that's when I like to go. 
I I agree with you her the way 

714
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,480
she started doing contemporary 
work as a ballerina was ground 

715
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,680
breaking. 
I completely agree with all of 

716
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,080
all of you, all three of your 
points. 

717
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:46,280
Marvelous. 
Moving on, let me ask you 3 

718
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,440
people that have inspired you or
changed the way you look at 

719
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,560
dance theatre performance? 
Jesus. 

720
00:39:55,040 --> 00:40:06,400
Jesus, not Jesus. 
When Jesus say yes, OK, not 

721
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,560
Jesus. 
Was that Michelle Williams? 

722
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,320
That song. 
Yes, with Beyoncé and Kelly, 

723
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,760
they all decided to do a little 
reunion on a single about Jesus 

724
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,840
I should do. 
I think my first choice has to 

725
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,200
be my contemporary teacher at 
school, which was Andre 

726
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,400
Davilia's. 
Because as someone who came 

727
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,360
from, you know, the Royal Ballet
School and Elmhurst as a ballet 

728
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,360
dancer, suddenly going into 
contemporary class, I think I 

729
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,960
had a preconceived idea of what 
contemporary was and had this 

730
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:44,840
kind of idea that it was rolling
on the floor, self indulgent 

731
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,280
art, art kind of thing. 
That's what contemporary dance 

732
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:53,480
was. 
And then Andre Devilliers showed

733
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:58,040
me what, what it meant, what 
contemporary dance, what modern 

734
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:03,000
dance meant. 
And as him being a the same 

735
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:08,560
height as me, a short guy who 
was very flexible, he could just

736
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:13,560
show me opportunities of not job
opportunities, but opportunities

737
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:18,680
of what somebody built with my 
body can do and achieve. 

738
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,520
And it doesn't have to be Bally 
Bally Bally Bally Ballet. 

739
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,240
I can do this. 
I can also move like this. 

740
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:29,680
And it just completely changed 
the trajectory of my life and 

741
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,080
changed how I thought about 
movement and dance completely. 

742
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:37,120
So Andre de Villiers, I think he
still teaches contemporary now 

743
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,680
after Elmhurst moved up to 
Birmingham, he went to Lane and 

744
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:43,440
I think he still teaches 
contemporary at Lane. 

745
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,200
Oh, wow, Arts. 
So if you're listening, anybody 

746
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,560
at Lane, pay attention to every 
word that Andre Davilia says. 

747
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:56,000
He is fantastic. 
I would say my second one 

748
00:41:56,240 --> 00:41:58,720
probably comes as no shock is 
Will Tuckett. 

749
00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:06,960
He is the best person. 
He, he is, how do I say this? 

750
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,680
Firstly, artistically and things
he said to me in the rehearsal 

751
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,320
room, which if you listen to a 
previous episode when I 

752
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,440
interviewed Will, you can hear 
what I'm discussing and his how 

753
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,280
he was in the rehearsal room and
everything. 

754
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,040
There are things he said about 
character development and stuff 

755
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,360
like this, which was fantastic 
and I found really helpful. 

756
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:30,120
But I will also say that I think
he is probably the my favorite 

757
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,800
person I've worked for. 
So like he's been my best boss, 

758
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:40,200
if that makes sense. 
He just, I was a human being and

759
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:42,560
it was. 
And that's really important. 

760
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,200
It showed me that a boss 
doesn't. 

761
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:51,480
He showed me what a 21st century
boss looks like in the theatre 

762
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:56,160
world. 
And that obviously changed the 

763
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,120
way I look at everything in the 
arts world because. 

764
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,400
Yeah, just how he was leading a 
company and leading a 

765
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,240
performance and how he was 
creating and how he was treating

766
00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:09,880
us and talking to us and the 
room that he created and 

767
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,120
everything. 
The way he created a safe space 

768
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,000
to work and create and 
everything is something that I 

769
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,000
really strive to do myself as 
to. 

770
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:25,240
And then third, Denise, no, I 
think it's a lady called Sorella

771
00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:29,480
England who is who was a prima 
ballerina in the world Danish 

772
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,640
ballet. 
And she is now she teaches, but 

773
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:37,840
she also goes round the world 
teaching everybody how to be 

774
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,280
Madge in a silk feed and 
everything. 

775
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,560
And we were doing a ballet 
class, an open class that she 

776
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:54,640
was teaching, and she really 
taught me how to incorporate 

777
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,320
everything that I have from 
contemporary dance and modern 

778
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:04,520
dance and bring it to my ballet 
class without looking like I'm 

779
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,400
trying. 
I'm being a modern contemporary 

780
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,920
dancer, if that makes sense. 
Like, I'm still being true to 

781
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:15,560
what classical ballet is, but 
I'm bringing some aspects of it 

782
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,560
because obviously we've all 
been, I'm not being bitchy. 

783
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:20,880
We've all been to those ballet 
classes and we've seen a 

784
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:25,240
contemporary dancer choose to do
things in a certain way in the 

785
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:27,760
ballet class to make it look 
like a contemporary class 

786
00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:32,640
Whatever. 
Sorella really managed to show 

787
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:36,720
me and teach me how to keep it 
true to what classical ballet is

788
00:44:36,720 --> 00:44:41,280
supposed to be, but bring these 
movement qualities and these 

789
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:46,120
intentions from contemporary 
into the classical ballet. 

790
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,520
One little example I can think 
of, it might sound really 

791
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,760
stupid, but like, you know when 
you were at the bar in ballet 

792
00:44:53,760 --> 00:45:00,040
class, you have your arm in 
second for 4 1/2 hours and I 

793
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,800
would notice that she would have
these small undulations in her 

794
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:09,280
arm or be ever so slightly 
moving it. 

795
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,680
It wasn't because it was held in
second, but it was alive. 

796
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:18,720
And that slight difference of 
holding it rock solid still or 

797
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:26,440
holding it but keeping it alive,
that was such a finite detail 

798
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,240
that I took away from her and 
she's noticed it. 

799
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:32,840
And she looked at what I did 
with my arm in 2nd and she said 

800
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,040
whatever anyone says, don't stop
doing that. 

801
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,800
And it's that stayed with me. 
Lovely and great advice. 

802
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,200
Yeah, she's fantastic. 
Even even that one example, 

803
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,000
Yeah, resonates. 
All right, great. 

804
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:52,840
I will ask you 3 stories like 
novels or movies that you think 

805
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,040
should be made into ballets. 
Well, this was quite a difficult

806
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,280
question. 
I really had to think about it. 

807
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,200
Also, choosing something that 
hasn't evolved into a ballet or 

808
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,760
a theater performance. 
But I'll give you the options 

809
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,160
that I came up with. 
But they're really based on 

810
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,800
films that I really enjoy to 
watch over and over again. 

811
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:16,560
So my first choice would be the 
hours, really. 

812
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,040
In really simple terms, you 
could have a three at ballet 

813
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,400
representing each of the three 
women. 

814
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,800
And let's have Philip Glass 
orchestrate the. 

815
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:29,720
Peas. 
I literally sent a proposal to a

816
00:46:29,720 --> 00:46:31,360
theatre in Denmark about this 
idea. 

817
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,880
Voila, great mind. 
I want 80% of the. 

818
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,640
But no, I completely agree. 
Doesn't. 

819
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,800
And if any of you out there 
decide to steal this idea, there

820
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,760
will be consequences. 
But it's the whole, I completely

821
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,840
agree, and we cannot go down 
this route and talk about the 

822
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:52,840
hours of ballet for a whole 
episode. 

823
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:58,920
I will just say, however, I will
just say the three storylines 

824
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,240
happening at the same time, 
which happens in the movie is 

825
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:06,000
not something that is done in 
theatre or in ballet. 

826
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,040
You never tell a story. 
Leave it, start telling another 

827
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,880
story and then go back to the 
story that you were telling 

828
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,520
before, like it doesn't happen. 
And it could be really 

829
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,200
interesting to play with that 
idea in ballet, in dance, in 

830
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,120
theatre. 
Next idea please. 

831
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:24,080
Agreed. 
Stamped Call Me by Your Name. 

832
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,680
I think the love story would be 
interesting and who doesn't love

833
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:34,120
a bit of drama? 
And I think again, it's now it's

834
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,400
a favorite film of mine, but 
it's not a film that I can watch

835
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,080
frequently because I find it so 
touching. 

836
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:44,000
And for those who who may have 
seen the film, there's a scene 

837
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:50,760
at the very end where Elio is 
basically crying and it's winter

838
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,600
time. 
It's stark. 

839
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,960
The the fireplace is burning. 
He sat by the fireplace. 

840
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:02,080
And he's, for me, Timothy 
Chalamet, the actor, manages to 

841
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,800
portray an emotion that I think 
most of us who have fallen in 

842
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:10,640
love young have has it has felt.
And I just think that it'd be a 

843
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,680
nice kind of dramatic, romantic,
playful, slightly tragic 

844
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,960
storytelling vibe. 
Yeah. 

845
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,720
Because I don't think, I mean 
it's not really told that much 

846
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,720
in in ballet specifically a love
story. 

847
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:26,560
Yeah. 
That like you said, the kind of 

848
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,320
when you're that young and you 
don't really know if you have 

849
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,840
fallen in love or have you 
fallen in infatuation or have 

850
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,560
you fallen in love with the idea
of someone, Are you actually in 

851
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,360
love? 
And you know, the tension and 

852
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,320
the longing, and also it's set 
amongst different seasons. 

853
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:43,440
So it starts in a very joyous 
kind of summer, you know, and 

854
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,400
then it kind of translates into 
winter, you know, representing, 

855
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,240
let's say, loss and heartbreak. 
No, I think, yeah, that would be

856
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,400
that would be a good option. 
But like I say, I have to really

857
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,800
be in the mood to watch that 
film because emotionally it does

858
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,640
take you on that journey. 
I think you have to be ready to,

859
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,960
if you're sensitive, you have to
be ready to, you know, absorb 

860
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,360
those feelings. 
It's very easy to to get into 

861
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:12,920
that story storyline. 
And my last option I think would

862
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:18,520
be a new option. 
There's a book called 30th State

863
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:25,720
by a new author by Alan Gammel. 
It's his debut debut novel and 

864
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:28,760
it's a provocative political 
thriller set in a world where 

865
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:33,960
Britain become India's India's 
30th state, where the narrative 

866
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:39,080
explores things of power, 
colonial legacies and shifting 

867
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,760
global dynamics. 
And I think, you know, amongst 

868
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,160
all of our friends, our network 
of close friends, we have 

869
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:50,400
choreographer, movement, 
director, hair and makeup. 

870
00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:53,000
You could definitely create this
film. 

871
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:59,360
To be honest though, I would 
love for someone mainstream to 

872
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:06,200
make a ballet with more Indian 
dance incorporated into it. 

873
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:10,480
I actually would love to see 
that more in, you know, 

874
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,240
somewhere like the Royal Ballet,
English National Ballet, a big 

875
00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:16,560
company because lots of those 
fusion things I did when I was 

876
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,400
very, very young, a contemporary
fuse with Katak and stuff. 

877
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:23,120
They're all very project based 
and stuff and but to see an 

878
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,520
Indian inspired dance 
performance on a massive ballet 

879
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,600
company could be very 
interesting movement vocabulary 

880
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:30,600
wise. 
Definitely. 

881
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:34,000
And let me tell you, when we 
were living in India, you know, 

882
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,240
I had the privilege of being 
invited to an Indian classical 

883
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:43,240
Dance Academy. 
It is so strict. 

884
00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:45,880
I mean, I know classical ballet 
is very strict and disciplined 

885
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,240
and folk, my goodness, I was in 
absolute awe. 

886
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,880
Every detail to the angle of the
eye looking at that finger. 

887
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,160
I mean, it's just exquisite. 
And yeah, it would be lovely to 

888
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,360
see. 
It would be lovely to have a big

889
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:04,000
dance scene in 30th state. 
Alan may need to rewrite some 

890
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:09,720
chapters in order to to create a
dance moment, but I'll have a 

891
00:51:09,720 --> 00:51:11,480
word. 
Oh my God. 

892
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,480
All joking aside, actually would
love to read that book. 

893
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:16,840
Well, I'll speak to the author 
and let's see if we can get you 

894
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,440
because it's actually it's only 
available at the moment. 

895
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,880
It's it's published by 
Bloomsbury India. 

896
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,080
So it's available in India right
now. 

897
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:29,080
But let me see if I can score 
you a coffee. 

898
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:33,400
But seriously, it does sound 
really interesting anyway, 

899
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:36,400
right? 
Selfless plug there. 

900
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:43,240
There you. 
Where are we on the questions? 

901
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,440
2 left. 
One for you, one for me, three 

902
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,040
favorite. 
I love that you're looking at me

903
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:52,960
surprised because you don't know
what question I'm going to ask 

904
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:54,120
you, even though they're your 
questions. 

905
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:58,560
Three favorite musicals. 
OK, 2 pop into my head. 

906
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:04,480
OK, we do 2 to watch and one to 
do Chicago. 

907
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,600
I know people have started to 
say that it's not Bob Fosse, 

908
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,440
it's Anne Rankin's idea of 
Fosse, blah blah blah. 

909
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:11,960
I don't care. 
Still amazing. 

910
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:16,680
Chicago, yeah, It's a fantastic 
musical. 

911
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,720
The version that everybody is 
doing nowadays, all in black, 

912
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:23,920
very minimalist stage with the 
band on stage and us doing the 

913
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,920
choreography and letting the 
choreography speak for itself. 

914
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:33,200
And that minimalist set up where
we are telling a story and you 

915
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,840
have nothing to rely on apart 
from your own talent and hard 

916
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,120
work is just. 
Yeah, it really is. 

917
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:45,560
And I have to say, I do feel 
very lucky to have done that 

918
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:51,240
movie with Renee Zellweger. 
I actually was talking about the

919
00:52:51,240 --> 00:52:55,760
movie yesterday to tours because
one reason why I think that that

920
00:52:55,760 --> 00:53:00,320
movie works so well in 
comparison to Sweeney Todd, Les 

921
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:04,560
Mis, Phantom, Hairspray, all 
these other musical movies that 

922
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:06,720
are out there, some of them are 
better than others and there's 

923
00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:09,360
lots of reasons why Les Mis, for
example, is not the best and 

924
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:13,120
Sweeney Todd is not the best. 
However, one reason why I think 

925
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:17,840
Chicago the movie is really good
is because it's so different 

926
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,120
from the stage show, right? 
Because the stage show was so 

927
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:24,160
minimalist and we stood there 
and there was 6 chairs on stage 

928
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,400
and we go pop 6 squish, blah 
blah blah. 

929
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,440
We don't have all the other 
inmates, we don't have prison 

930
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,400
bars, we don't have all this 
kind of stuff. 

931
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,760
So the movie could do something 
different. 

932
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,960
Yes. 
Whereas with Les Mis for 

933
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,560
example, it is basically the 
stage show in a film. 

934
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,080
Uh huh. 
And I thought, I think that's 

935
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,000
why Chicago, in my opinion, 
worked so well, was that the 

936
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,560
director could actually do 
something else. 

937
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:54,520
Anyway, that's going off topic. 
I would say my second favorite 

938
00:53:54,520 --> 00:54:00,360
musical is Notre Dame de Paris. 
Oh fabulous, fabulous. 

939
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:06,480
Yes, agreed. 
And I think it's after now, you 

940
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:10,000
know, after working in musicals 
and seeing a lot of musicals, I 

941
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:13,920
know there are triple threats 
and, and there are people who 

942
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:17,400
are very, very talented. 
But what I love about Nachadam 

943
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,800
de Paris is that you let the 
singers sing, the dancers dance 

944
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:22,960
and the acrobats do acrobatic 
stuff. 

945
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,600
Like, everybody is doing what 
they're good at instead of, 

946
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:30,960
like, no shade to anyone, a 
singer trying to dance. 

947
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:34,480
So all the big good dancers have
to dumb down the choreography to

948
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,160
make the lead singer look good. 
Like, what's nice and not so 

949
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:39,520
done to parry is that everybody 
shines. 

950
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,880
Yeah, because everybody is doing
hard stuff, if that makes sense.

951
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:45,680
Yeah. 
It really elevates the the 

952
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:49,600
production, doesn't it? 
And it's just, again, it's not 

953
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:55,480
literal the the production. 
It's not olden day sonography. 

954
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,760
You know, I don't have a 
cathedral in front of me. 

955
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,360
Everything is kind of minimalist
as well. 

956
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,080
Oh my God am I really going? 
I didn't realize this until I 

957
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,280
started listing things off that.
Obviously I like minimalist 

958
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,760
musicals but love that 
production. 

959
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,080
I saw it in London with Tina 
Arena. 

960
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,720
Oh amazing. 
And when Tina Arena did it, 

961
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:22,360
correct me if I'm wrong, I think
the Parisian cast all came over,

962
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:26,000
Patrick Fiori all came over and 
performed it in the West End. 

963
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:31,640
And they only changed Esmeralda 
to be sell tickets in English 

964
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,120
person. 
Also someone who speaks English.

965
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,760
So I saw Tina Arena and it was 
fantastic. 

966
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,880
So yeah, not Saddam de Paris, 
not Hunchback of Notre Dame 

967
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:41,840
people. 
That is a very different thing. 

968
00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:46,800
Not Saddam de Paris. 
I think if you if you don't know

969
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,120
the musical, the two famous 
songs from the musicals, one of 

970
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,680
the ones released as a single by
Céline Dion live for the one I 

971
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,720
love. 
And then there's a one, the 

972
00:55:55,720 --> 00:56:01,680
cathedral, which is just. 
Yes, that'll be going on later. 

973
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,480
Stunning. 
Anyway, third one and it's 

974
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:10,880
purely selfish and from 
experience, Kinky Boots was just

975
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:15,160
so much fun. 
Hard work but fun and a life 

976
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:18,680
changing experience to be in. 
That's my third one, and just 

977
00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:21,800
briefly, why was it life 
changing? 

978
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:26,560
I think it was the first time I 
played homosexual on stage. 

979
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,720
All right, I was just laughing 
at that, me asking you to 

980
00:56:29,720 --> 00:56:34,720
briefly explain like. 
Briefly, the clock is ticking. 

981
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,800
No, I think it was like one of 
the first times I had played a 

982
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,760
gay person. 
First time I had I was on stage 

983
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:44,880
playing a homosexual, which was 
as someone who, if you're 

984
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:48,160
listening, someone who is not 
homosexual. 

985
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:53,760
Whenever I am on stage playing a
role, it's always then another 

986
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,400
thing I have to think about, you
know? 

987
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,120
Oh, and I also have to be 
straight. 

988
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,160
Does that make sense? 
Like, you know, oh, I'm playing 

989
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:03,200
this villager, I am playing a 
greengrocer, I am playing a 

990
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,600
murderer, I am playing whatever 
I am playing. 

991
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:10,720
Plus he is straight. 
Whereas in this I was like, oh 

992
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:13,200
cool, don't have to think about 
sexuality or anything like that 

993
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,640
because that's a given. 
Like it was kind of an, I don't 

994
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:18,400
know, that was something that 
was really nice. 

995
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:25,120
But what I really loved about it
was the fact that I got to bring

996
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:30,760
3 passions of mine which like 
dancing, singing and playing 

997
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,640
with makeup all together in a 
production. 

998
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:36,720
Because I've loved playing with 
makeup, especially after working

999
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:41,120
in Tivoli, having to play all 
these characters and monsters 

1000
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:46,720
and whatever, and now having to 
do that here and yeah, and play 

1001
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:49,560
with makeup. 
And I had to be a drag queen and

1002
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,440
my costume was this color, so 
knowing and my hair was this 

1003
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,360
color, but I could do what I 
want with my makeup as long as 

1004
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,080
it fit the character and fit the
hair. 

1005
00:57:58,080 --> 00:57:59,760
So I could change my makeup 
every single day. 

1006
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,320
And it was fantastic. 
Yeah, that sounds like a lot of 

1007
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:03,560
fun. 
A lot of fun. 

1008
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:06,160
So that was, that was fun. 
All right, love. 

1009
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,680
Final question. 
My final question is just so our

1010
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:11,920
little listeners can maybe get 
to know you a little bit better.

1011
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:17,000
Three favorite TV shows. 
Well, if I could have, I would 

1012
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:23,960
have put Sex in the City three 
times because for those who know

1013
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:27,720
me, they know how much I love 
Sex in the City and I, it is 

1014
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:32,640
literally legitimately a show 
that I can watch forever and not

1015
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,360
get bored. 
So definitely Sex in the City I 

1016
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:40,200
don't want to discuss. 
And just like that, the only 

1017
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:45,520
thing I'll say on that actually 
is I was very happy to have the 

1018
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:50,000
chance to revisit these 
characters with new dialogue. 

1019
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,320
For somebody who's a die hard 
fan, it was really interesting 

1020
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:57,880
and exciting to see Carrie and 
the girls in a new. 

1021
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,800
Setting. 
But that's who it's made for. 

1022
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:04,080
The program is made for people 
who love Sex and the City and 

1023
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:05,360
want to see these people do 
more. 

1024
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:06,640
And you're going to watch it 
whether it was. 

1025
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,720
Bad or not for sure for sure. 
So 100% Sex and the City. 

1026
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:13,920
I've written down Downton Abbey 
and I did love it. 

1027
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,600
I do love it. 
I don't I did go through a phase

1028
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:20,880
of rewatching and I think there 
will be a final movie coming 

1029
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:22,600
this winter. 
I think I. 

1030
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:25,400
Haven't seen the movies. 
I'm not sure on the dates. 

1031
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:27,600
So it couldn't, it could very 
well be early next year. 

1032
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,760
I don't know. 
But I think what I what I meant 

1033
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,800
by Downton Abbey is, yes, it was
a favorite. 

1034
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:37,360
It had its moment. 
But I also like that attention 

1035
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,880
to detail with period drama. 
I love that. 

1036
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,680
And Maggie Smith. 
And of course, the great Maggie 

1037
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:45,920
Smith. 
And I do remember just as Season

1038
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:50,000
1 was coming out and we were 
getting that buzz of Downton 

1039
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:57,400
Abbey, this new show, I was due 
to cover some classes for Craig 

1040
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:02,000
Turbyfield, who was teaching 
like a ballet fitness bar in a 

1041
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:07,400
fabulous studio in Shoreditch. 
And so I went one day to to 

1042
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,240
watch his class because I'd be 
teaching it the weekend after. 

1043
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:14,520
And Lady Mary was in the class. 
So that was exciting. 

1044
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,800
But it was just at the very 
start of of, of the fame of the 

1045
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:19,720
show. 
So I was like, oh, that was. 

1046
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:22,040
Like for a posture or something.
Yeah, and she does have great 

1047
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:23,640
posture. 
So it's paying off. 

1048
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:31,480
And my final option now I've 
I've made a selection and I've 

1049
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:35,240
put scandal because I love Kerry
Washington as Olivia Pope. 

1050
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:37,040
I was. 
Going to say, isn't that Kerry? 

1051
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:42,720
Washington yeah, she's fabulous.
But I do like a kind of drama 

1052
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:47,440
ties political show as 
particularly a series, you know,

1053
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:50,720
Line of Duty. 
I've just watched Hostage on 

1054
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:52,600
Netflix. 
I said the one that I just 

1055
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:55,440
watched with Doctor, whatever 
her name is. 

1056
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:57,880
Yes, Foster, Yeah. 
Is it foster or foster? 

1057
01:00:57,880 --> 01:00:59,120
I don't know. 
What's her name? 

1058
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:00,560
Suranne Jones. 
Is that her real name? 

1059
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:02,480
Yes, Doctor Foster, and she's a 
Northerner. 

1060
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,200
She's a Northerner and she was 
in Coronation Street. 

1061
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,480
So you know, I almost put 
correlations. 

1062
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,440
Oh, but hostage people, if 
you're looking for something to 

1063
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:13,760
watch on Netflix, Hostages is 
good. 

1064
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:15,560
I thought it was good. 
It was great. 

1065
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:19,760
She plays our Prime Minister and
it will ruin really get the 

1066
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:22,920
taste buds going for when you 
can finally order your 30th 

1067
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:28,960
stage. 
It really is hitting that genre 

1068
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,000
of political thrillers. 
You'll really enjoy. 

1069
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:34,960
You'll love the book, and 
actually, as I start to think 

1070
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:36,960
about it, I also loved The Good 
Wife. 

1071
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:39,520
Oh, The Good Wife and the good 
fight both. 

1072
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:44,480
Of them both fantastic, yeah. 
Although I miss in the Good 

1073
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:48,040
Fight, I know it's about other 
people but I missed the lead 

1074
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:49,960
from The Good Wife when I'm 
watching the Good Fight. 

1075
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:51,560
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1076
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:53,240
Yeah. 
We digress. 

1077
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:58,840
Digress. 
Well, that was episode one. 

1078
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,440
Season 3 has officially started 
I. 

1079
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:06,040
Mean that's crazy Season 3. 
Thank you all for listening. 

1080
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:11,280
Welcome back and we hope you 
enjoy the upcoming season. 

1081
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:14,280
Please remember to tell a friend
and recommend our podcast to 

1082
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:16,920
your fellow dance friends and 
colleagues. 

1083
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:20,040
And to random people on the 
street, I mean, everybody loves 

1084
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:22,200
a podcast. 
So tell the person that serves 

1085
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:25,560
you at Costa or Cafe Nero. 
Absolutely both. 

1086
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,760
All right, sweetheart. 
All right, my darling, welcome 

1087
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,640
back. 
It's lovely back in the studio 

1088
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:39,600
with you and I can't wait to 
explore more of Season 3. 

1089
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:41,800
Who'd have thought it? 
Season 3, All right, love, thank

1090
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,360
you very much for today and 
speak to you again soon. 

1091
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:46,600
Bye, darling. 
Bye, love you lots. 

1092
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:47,360
Bye bye.