1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,360 Hello and welcome to Drinks at the Bar, a podcast where we 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,720 breakthrough the 4th wall and discuss everything about dance 3 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,320 and the theatre industry. My name is Paul James Rooney, a 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,640 dancer, choreographer and dance teacher based in Copenhagen, and 5 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,560 I'm your host of Drinks at the Bar. 6 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,680 Here we discuss everything from hearing backstage stories, 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,240 touring shenanigans to deeper issues like body image training 8 00:00:26,240 --> 00:00:28,160 and the reality of being a freelance dancer. 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,800 Today I am joined by a solo choreographer with the Royal New 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,440 Zealand Ballet. His talent for storytelling has 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,040 led him to Dance Park in Midsummer Night's Dream and 12 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,920 Hansel and Hansel and Gretel, and his sharp technique, 13 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,400 movement, quality and musicality has been shown off in works by 14 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,720 Forsythe, Killian and Balanchine. 15 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:50,480 He is a great dancer and since 2018 has been choreographer in 16 00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:52,760 residence at the Royal New Zealand Ballet. 17 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,600 Please welcome an old friend of mine, Sean James Kelly. 18 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,160 Hello, how are you I'm. Good, good. 19 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:01,600 How are you? Good. 20 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:03,600 Feels like it's been such a long time. 21 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:08,240 I literally was thinking earlier today, I was like, oh, when was 22 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:09,360 it? It must have been when you came 23 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,160 over to Tivoli to help us when someone broke their leg. 24 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,680 Oh my gosh, yeah. During Nutcracker. 25 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,040 Good old Nutcracker season. Because weren't you on your 26 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,440 summer holiday? Yeah, I was on my, like, summer 27 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,760 break over here and yeah, I was back home and they called me up 28 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:29,040 and was like, hey, do you remember it? 29 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:30,480 And I was like, see you tomorrow. 30 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,240 Oh well. Hi, Sean and welcome. 31 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,040 Thanks for having me. I'm happy that we could make it 32 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,520 work, seeing as you're on the other side of the world so. 33 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,440 Completely different time zone. I was going to say, so you're 34 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,520 what, 9:00 at night right now? Yeah. 35 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,440 OK, well I have a cup of coffee because it is only 11:00 in the 36 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,240 morning here. I haven't got myself a drink 37 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,600 yet. Yep, I am on Fijioa Cambridge 38 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,720 this evening so same with you. Non alcoholic but very 39 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:01,520 refreshed. Cheers. 40 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,160 How are you? Great. 41 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:06,720 Thanks. Yeah, I've been doing really 42 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,320 well. We just finished a season where 43 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,720 I was both dancing and choreographing, so I had like my 44 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,440 first mainstage Commission, which I was really excited 45 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,640 about. And I'm so glad that it's out 46 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:19,040 there finally, because I've been thinking about it for so long. 47 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,400 So yeah, I'm on a little bit of a break from that. 48 00:02:21,640 --> 00:02:23,480 So what? Tell me a bit about that piece. 49 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:25,840 Yeah. So it was titled Chrysalis. 50 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,240 It was kind of just like about a metamorphosis about me and 51 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,880 becoming a dancer and a little bit about relationships and how 52 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,520 you can meet people that change you, that take like metaphorical 53 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:39,680 layers off of you so you can become yourself. 54 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,400 So it was a real collaboration with Kiwi Scott fashion designer 55 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,240 Rory William Docherty. He's based up in Auckland here 56 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,720 and he just won New Zealand Fashion Designer of the year 57 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,280 last year and he's showing his first ever collection in London 58 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,920 Fashion Week in September. So check him out. 59 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,720 But he made these beautiful garments that kind of resemble 60 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,840 kind of gender norms. So he makes like big over 61 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,920 massive trench jackets and beautiful suits and beautiful 62 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:09,920 dresses for the women. And he hand designed these 63 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:14,160 colorful unitards. He hand made the print and we 64 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,720 printed these unitards. So when they took all the layers 65 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:18,760 off, the big color was underneath, kind of like a 66 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:19,840 butterfly. Yeah. 67 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,160 So it was a real. We used all them as set elements 68 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:24,560 too. So we had them hanging from the 69 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,840 ceiling and suspended from the air. 70 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,520 So it was kind of that ominous that it's kind of always there 71 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,480 like for you to reach for that insecurity again, whether you 72 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,000 truly become yourself. Lovely. 73 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:36,880 Yeah. So, oh, lovely metaphor. 74 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,280 Yeah, abstract, but a little bit of a story. 75 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,000 I wanted to challenge myself, so yeah. 76 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:42,720 Well, congratulations. Thank you. 77 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,360 Well, as it's a little bit of a metaphor and story about your 78 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,320 life, let's start from the beginning. 79 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,040 Why are you a dancer, Sean? God, if I only knew. 80 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,560 I mean the accent is is hardly there anymore. 81 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,200 Yeah, there's hardly. Any Scottish accent there? 82 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,440 There was when you were in Copenhagen with me, but it's 83 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:09,720 disappeared. It's so sad, I know, but brought 84 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:14,120 up in Scotland, I started tap dancing at a very young age. 85 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:15,720 You know, I just thought it was dancing in front of the 86 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,360 television. And my cousin at the time, she 87 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,000 was doing tap dancing and my auntie was like, oh, how about I 88 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,520 take you along to one of her classes? 89 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,160 So yeah, that's how I started dancing. 90 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,080 I just started with tap. Not even with Scottish national 91 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:29,520 dancing or anything like that, Sort of with tap. 92 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,160 Yeah, it started with tap and then my teacher at the time kind 93 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,680 of wrote me into the only boy in the studio doing this, that and 94 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,800 the next thing. So I was doing Scottish country 95 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,840 dancing and then a little bit of disco dancing on Saturdays. 96 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:44,360 But I actually did a little bit of acting first, so I was in 97 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,840 like a panto. So I was Michael Darling and 98 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,080 Peter Pan. So just kind of fell in love 99 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:50,920 with the theater aspect of it all. 100 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,760 And it was my dad that saw an advert in the paper for the 101 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,160 Dance School of Scotland and Glasgow. 102 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,840 And that's when I decided, yeah, let's give it a go. 103 00:04:57,840 --> 00:04:59,520 Why not? So had you been doing some 104 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,960 ballet before you tried out for the school or had it been mainly 105 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,840 the other genres? No, no ballet at all. 106 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,480 So I was quite lucky. Obviously, being a boy and 107 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,240 having that kind of rhythm behind me. 108 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,440 It was kind of like all skipping bass and making sure that you're 109 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,480 a musical and a little bit of flexibility kind of in that 110 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,800 edition, you're so young, you don't really know what you're 111 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,920 doing. And I was just having a blast. 112 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,680 Like I never really knew what to expect. 113 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,640 And it wasn't until actually, yeah, I started full time 114 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,480 training at night Suede and I went for a dance fitting at the 115 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:32,760 dance shop. And they're like, oh, this is 116 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:34,880 your ballet outfit? And I was like, whoa. 117 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,640 And then I just put my hand on the bar for the first time and 118 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,760 the rest is history. That's crazy. 119 00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:43,200 Yeah. So trained obviously in Scotland 120 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,760 and then when you got to the age of 16 you went to E&B. 121 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,440 Yeah, that's right. How was it for you going to E&B 122 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,640 and then in these prestigious ballet schools? 123 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:56,560 We do lots of different things, but it is majority ballet based. 124 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,440 The training. How did you feel leaving behind 125 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,400 jazz, tap, the acting, all of that kind of stuff? 126 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,680 Yeah, I think it was strange at first, especially coming from 127 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,760 Knights Wood where we had like a musical theatre course as well. 128 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,120 So I was completely immersed in that kind of other world. 129 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,520 And it wasn't until the ballet teacher of mine said, hey, I 130 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,480 think you can do ballet as a career, you should really try 131 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,000 going down this Ave. So I hadn't really thought about 132 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,080 choosing one until that moment as well. 133 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,200 But I think it was when I was auditioning for schools that I 134 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,680 kind of decided, oh, this is where I'm supposed to be. 135 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,400 And when I did the audition for EMB, I just had this sense of 136 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,320 like, oh, this is the kind of journey that I'm supposed to 137 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:35,800 take. The school would fit me really 138 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,520 well. So I felt like being in London 139 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,680 and being immersed with theater, I had that the weekends anyway. 140 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,080 So I'd go out and see musicals. I'd go and see any show that was 141 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,040 done in Sadler's Wells. But yeah, I think just having 142 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,120 that pure focus on what a career in actual ballet could be, it 143 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,040 was kind of that new vision I had for myself. 144 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,680 So I kind of always knew that you could kind of do any other 145 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,520 dance but ballet. You have to hit it hard and you 146 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:00,480 have to hit it when you're young. 147 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:02,760 Yeah, speaking as old people now. 148 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:06,520 Yeah, what are you talking about? 149 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,840 South E&B while you're in the training, like quite a lot of 150 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:16,880 students who go to the Royal or A&B, you got used in the company 151 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,840 shows, you got used in Eric's Swan Lake or RJ. 152 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,400 Yeah, I did. Swan Lake and Romeo and Juliet 153 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,240 and. At the Albert Hall. 154 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,840 In the Colosseum and I went on tour with them as well, yeah. 155 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,440 And how was that? It was like amazing getting 156 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,360 picked as a student. You know, you just like, I think 157 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:39,640 the very probably 1 of the scariest parts was when I went 158 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,720 in for Swan Lake because they were obviously they knew the 159 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,400 ballet, they were rehearsing it and they got to pick which 160 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,080 students joined to help out. So there was like a shortfall in 161 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,280 the quarter ballet and I just woke up to rehearsal one day and 162 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,320 they're like, OK, so you're in for peasants. 163 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,160 And I was like, I don't know any of the steps yet. 164 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:57,800 Good knows. No one had taught me. 165 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,120 So the company just like pushed me and like, oh, you dance and 166 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,160 you stand there and then you move to the next bit. 167 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:04,960 Someone pushed me there. Oh, you dance and you stand 168 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,200 there. So it was just like, Oh my 169 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,520 goodness. And I'm on next week kind of 170 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,600 thing in my head. But I think it was really good 171 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,400 learning experience for me. And I think always being fast 172 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,880 and quick, which is something that I enjoy about dance, like 173 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,920 picking up steps and musicality. It's something that I really 174 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:22,960 like thrived in. And I kind of loved the 175 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,720 challenge of being like, OK, give it to me. 176 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,000 And yeah, it's kind of surreal. Like, thinking back on it now, 177 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,480 you're like, wow, I really performed with that company and 178 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,240 at such a young age and doing different stuff in Romeo and 179 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,320 Juliet, we got to dance with the soloist woman. 180 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,760 We were actually part of, like Juliet's friends. 181 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,480 So we were dancing with solo, some principal ladies in the 182 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,160 company. It was crazy as students. 183 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:47,400 Yeah, Yeah. And they were always so 184 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,320 encouraging. Like I remember so fondly, like, 185 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,360 Daria always being there and coaching us in class. 186 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,080 And we kind of had like a special relationship with her 187 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,160 because she was doing starting up her summer course at the time 188 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:00,880 in Prague. So. 189 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,080 Oh, right, yeah, some of us did that with her. 190 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,600 And she's always had that drive for young kids to do better. 191 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,400 And she never made us feel like students, even though we very 192 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:15,960 much wear student number 123 and four in our purple unitards. 193 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,160 Bright purple. Sticking out like a sore thumb 194 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:19,440 in the professional. World. 195 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,760 Oh yeah, definitely the only one wearing no warm ups and bright 196 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:28,120 purple cap sleeved unitard. All the company dancers have 197 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,400 been like Nike sport shorts and like vests or whatever. 198 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,520 Yeah, looking very cool, you know, bandanas, one leg warmer 199 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,880 on, you know. But it's crazy when you think 200 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,280 back to those times because I was an extra in AMB way back 201 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:47,000 when and you were thrown into a room or thrown into the actual 202 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,760 dance space. And the majority of the company 203 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,720 have done RJ every single year or every second year, whatever 204 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,520 it is, they all know the stairs and it's suddenly like right new 205 00:09:55,520 --> 00:10:00,160 boy, the polonaise go like when am I supposed to have learnt 206 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,120 this? And it's just amazing. 207 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,040 What I mean, that's why we have the training that we have 208 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:10,400 because obviously there's something in you just switches 209 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,240 on and somehow you pick it up and you follow and you side eye 210 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,960 and you make it work. Yeah, definitely within a 211 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,440 company like EMB as well. You know, they're constantly 212 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,040 touring. They're all around the country 213 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:22,840 all the time. And we were lucky enough to go 214 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,280 to Barcelona with them too. So we did right of Spring and 215 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,160 Shahrazad with them as like extras as students as well. 216 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,000 So they got to take, we got amazing opportunities out of it. 217 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,720 So I feel very lucky that that was kind of the start of my on 218 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,800 stage experience. And we also got to dance with 219 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:44,080 Agnes on the Royal Variety Performance as well. 220 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,160 So she performed the Sugar Plum. Yeah. 221 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,680 Agnes and Tom. Yeah, this amazing experience. 222 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,280 We were the core behind them as students and they were dancing. 223 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:55,720 Wow. And we were on the Royal Variety 224 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,880 Performance, like unbelievable. Incredible. 225 00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:03,760 So you graduate, you finish the school and what's your journey? 226 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,160 What happens there? Well, we were actually doing 227 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,640 Borneville at the time, so we're doing Napoli. 228 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,400 So Dina Bjorn, she was in the studio. 229 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,960 She came in with her little skirt and her little heels, 230 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,880 black tights on and said, OK, let's learn some Borneville. 231 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,000 Yeah, teaching us a few Borneville classes and getting 232 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,640 us ready for our NGP performance. 233 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,800 And it was actually pair that came in to watch because they 234 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,680 were looking for people for Tivoli and yeah, and they were 235 00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:35,680 like, hey, we need you to come to Tivoli in a month or 236 00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:36,840 something. Tivoli style. 237 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:38,880 Yeah. And I was like, why not? 238 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:40,280 Let's get out of here. Let's go. 239 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,760 Had they taken any people from your year group into the company 240 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,920 or was there no openings or was that not your journey or how? 241 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,920 So it was kind of at that time that all the funding was being 242 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,160 cut. So it was in the papers that 243 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,200 Northern Valley were cutting 30% of their dancers and they're 244 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,480 losing this amount of funding. And it was kind of the beginning 245 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,440 of people kind of going to places like Estonia and things 246 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,440 that were a little bit unknown to us at the time because we 247 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,400 just, the trajectory for us was that we were hopefully going to 248 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,880 get into the company or somewhere in the UK. 249 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,680 Yeah. So that as soon as I got offered 250 00:12:18,680 --> 00:12:20,400 a job, I kind of jumped to the opportunity. 251 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,280 I was like, let's start now, go start somewhere. 252 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,880 So and obviously working with Dina as well, like knowing 253 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,320 you're kind of getting into that world and there's so much 254 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:30,880 history there with the Borneville stuff. 255 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,480 I always really enjoyed that so. So you hop on a plane, you move 256 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,680 to Copenhagen. Yeah, you meet me. 257 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,960 And the rest is history. Thank you for listening to 258 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:46,840 another episode. Yeah. 259 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:51,040 Thank you so much. So, I mean, for people who don't 260 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,600 know anything about Tivoli, it is a small company. 261 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:59,680 But I think the major difference about this small company in 262 00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:03,480 comparison to your Ballet Islands and Vienna festivals 263 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,080 and, you know, lots of small companies there are around the 264 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:07,960 world. This company actually has a bit 265 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,040 of money because it's in the middle of an amusement park, 266 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,280 which, you know, makes billions of dollars every single year. 267 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,680 So actually, yeah, for a small company, there is some money, 268 00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:19,160 and it's not even public funding. 269 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,040 So they don't have to, like, apologize for the money. 270 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,880 They can just spend this money. Yeah. 271 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:28,480 So the things that we got to do for a small company, like for 272 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,920 example the Bonneville stuff with Dina Bjorn and Peter Bo 273 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,000 himself, like teaching got Tim Rushton. 274 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,800 We, you and I danced together in a Michael Korda ballet that was 275 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,720 created for the company. I know. 276 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,320 And I think that's kind of like was our little connection from 277 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,040 school because he was the director of English National 278 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,760 Ballet School at the time. So he just finished creating a 279 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:50,480 piece on us for a summer performance too. 280 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,320 And I think that when Peter and pair came into the studio, when 281 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,720 they were looking for people, they were kind of asking if 282 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,680 you'd be interested in doing some choreography as well. 283 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:02,040 So I think that it's really great that they kind of network 284 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,040 like that and they're really open to like these kind of 285 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,120 collaborations and bring people into Tivoli. 286 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,600 And then obviously for me, my favorite memory with you, and 287 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,320 actually one of my favorite memories of my time in Tivoli, 288 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,720 was you and I dancing triplex at the Polytegon. 289 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,480 Oh yeah, that was amazing. I mean, for people who don't 290 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,800 know Copenhagen, the main police station, like the police 291 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,640 headquarters of Copenhagen is this like massive kind of 292 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:33,160 Colosseum esque building. And every year they used to do 293 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,120 this summer production in the middle of this like courtyard of 294 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,880 the Colosseum building. And Sean and I and Marshall 295 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,120 Lynn. Yeah, Marshall's. 296 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:45,080 To Washington's I know danced Tim Russian's triplex and it's 297 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,920 was such a fun piece to perform and such a great place to 298 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,200 perform. Yeah, I think that's one of my 299 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,600 favorite memories about dancing and just the fact that we got to 300 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,680 dance outside. Like I think that that's so cool 301 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,960 now. I think that it all the time. 302 00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:03,480 Like people would sit in the rain and watch us dance with 303 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,080 umbrellas sitting there. Typically you'd have people that 304 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,960 would come every day. I mean, we did work for it. 305 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,040 We did all those shows, you know. 306 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,360 I remember we'd be doing performances off, let's just say 307 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,920 like a Born and Villa programme, and if it was pissing it down 308 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:23,000 with rain there would be one guy with an umbrella watching and we 309 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,960 wouldn't have to do our job. And they'd be like. 310 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,960 Exactly. You know, you've got 20 dancers 311 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,280 on stage, whatever it is, doing all the tarantellas. 312 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,640 You've just done your solo in Napoli and everything, and 313 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,600 there's a single guy with an umbrella who isn't clapping 314 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:40,680 because he's holding an umbrella. 315 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,720 Oh, my God. I have to say, though, my, my 316 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,840 major thing about Tivoli when I started there was having to 317 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,920 change your eye line because, like, the audience is beneath 318 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:52,760 you. Yeah. 319 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,880 And I automatically was like, you know, projecting up to the 320 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,720 to the gods. But that's nothing up there. 321 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,000 There's clouds. Yes. 322 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,720 So that and you're on a rate. So like having to look down and 323 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,000 dance on a rake at the same time? 324 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,560 Yeah, I think it was the rake for me. 325 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,640 Like we always heard, like, you know, in Europe, there's all 326 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,760 these theaters with Rakes and blah, blah, blah, and then 327 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,960 getting into obviously Tivoli and seeing the actual rake. 328 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:22,520 And what it's. Really like took a little bit of 329 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,120 getting used to but made it a lot of fun. 330 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:32,080 Yeah, it did. So you were in Tivoli for? 331 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,480 Maybe 2 1/2 years. Obviously made a big impression 332 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:40,040 on Mitchell on. That yeah, I think that I 11-12, 333 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,880 yeah, summer of 13 I think was my last season and then I joined 334 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,080 Ronnie Stone Bailey and the beginning of 14. 335 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,640 Yeah. I need to mention to Ron Don, 336 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:54,800 also another favorite memory of mine, us in our red ponytails at 337 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,400 the Royal Danish Opera House, like on our revolving stage. 338 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,200 Almost naked, wearing a jock strap, doing pictures in second 339 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,400 with your ass to the audience. Didn't some of the dancers get 340 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,079 their nipples up? Oh yes, it was the little. 341 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,720 The girls were in basically just a chiffon piece of fabric with 342 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,839 nothing underneath. Yeah, without warning. 343 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,119 Oh yeah, without warning day one. 344 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:20,800 So you're going to be naked. That's. 345 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,119 I do also remember doing another Danish opera on a wooden horse 346 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:31,200 with a jock strap upside down. The Danes love to be naked. 347 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,640 Those are the experiences, yeah. Scandinavia. 348 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,520 They're very body positive. Yeah, free. 349 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,200 So obviously we all leave jobs for, you know, whatever reasons 350 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,600 we have our own private reasons or whatever it is why in Royal 351 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,120 New Zealand that is very far away and. 352 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,360 Yeah. What? 353 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:59,560 It was kind of spontaneous, like we were doing like a galley in 354 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,360 Italy with one of the dancers from Tivoli at the time. 355 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:06,880 And actually it was my friend Tila, who we were working with 356 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,120 Tivoli. She had a friend that was 357 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:12,040 working in New Zealand Ballet and Ethan Stifel had just taken 358 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,560 over as director. And she was like, you should 359 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,480 send your stuff there. Like you work really well under 360 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,040 him. Like you should give it a try. 361 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,760 So it's just kind of that why not kind of situation like, 362 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,480 obviously, yeah. He's such a huge inspiration as 363 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,840 a dancer, as a principal dancer, American Ballet Theatre, you 364 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,680 know, center stage, everyone's seen the oh. 365 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:31,880 Set the stage. Come on. 366 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,000 Come on, Cooper Nielsen. Cooper. 367 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,000 And I was like, yeah, I was really lucky at the time. 368 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,800 They were looking for dancers. And he was just really open and 369 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,160 honest with me. And he was like, oh, please send 370 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,040 me your stuff. I'm really interested in what 371 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:48,800 you've been doing. The ballet master here at the 372 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,320 time, Martin Bedell, he was Danish, so he kind of knew where 373 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,640 I wasn't, Tivoli. And it was like a little bit of 374 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,800 a Danish connection, just so coincidentally, You know, the 375 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,960 ballet world is so small. But Ethan was like, this is 376 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:02,600 great. I have nothing right now, but as 377 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,760 soon as I have something for you, I'll get in touch. 378 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,640 And I think it was about a week later, he emailed me being like, 379 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,680 hey, can you Skype? And then I sat in my kitchen. 380 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,560 Not unlike this. I think it was actually the 381 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,920 opposite way around, though. So it was 12:00 at night for me. 382 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:19,600 I was sitting in my pajamas in my kitchen in. 383 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,000 Scotland. Sitting talking to Ethan Stifel 384 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,360 and he's just asking me all these questions, what I want for 385 00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:28,240 my career. And yeah. 386 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,560 And then the next day I woke up to an e-mail being like, we'd 387 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,480 love to offer you a job in New Zealand. 388 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,560 So yeah. Wow. 389 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,280 And then you said as a boyfriend you kind of suck as a direct. 390 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,960 You're great. Unfortunately, there weren't any 391 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,520 rankings at the time, so you didn't offer me principles so. 392 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,000 Was there any part of you that was scared about going to New 393 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,520 Zealand? Because obviously you just 394 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,520 mentioned Ballet Gala in Italy. And when you're at school 395 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,560 already working in Spain and moving over to Denmark, but 396 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,040 these places are two hours away. Like if anything goes wrong, you 397 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,440 can always jump on a plane and two hours later you're back 398 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,040 home. Was there any part of you was 399 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,720 like? Oh my God, I'm going 24 hours 400 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,520 away. Not really. 401 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,720 I I think when I was at Knightswood I won Australian 402 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,720 exchange competition. So I went over there when I was 403 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,840 15 to V cast Victorian College of the Arts in Melbourne and did 404 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,160 some days with the Australian Valley School and it was an 405 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,440 amazing experience. So ever since I did that, my dad 406 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,080 was always like, oh, I have this feeling that you might like go 407 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,360 back over to that side of the world kind of thing. 408 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,960 And I was like, OK, that's crazy. 409 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,160 But then when it happened, I was like, oh, why not? 410 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,880 There was something in me that just knew that it was the right 411 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,840 thing to do, no matter how long it would be for the time. 412 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,560 I just, I thought I'd be silly to not take the opportunity and 413 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,840 gain the experience that I would get from coming here. 414 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,840 So literally there was no part of you that was nervous in that 415 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,840 sense because of the distance. Not really. 416 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,400 I think it's just, I guess I come from a big family, so a lot 417 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,360 of my career is being away from them. 418 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,800 So like, I miss them a lot, but they live in each other's 419 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,320 pockets back home. My sister actually moved over 420 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,720 here just before COVID and kind of got stuck here. 421 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,400 And now she lives out here. So she's been out here since 422 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:16,240 really. Yeah. 423 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,200 So kind of having her here. Oh, wow. 424 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,840 It just kind of feels like I have a part of home out here 425 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,960 with me now as well. So I think at the beginning it 426 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,040 was lonely, but I was really here to progress in my career 427 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,760 and get the roles and do do the work. 428 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,160 So I was really focused on that and I was just wanted to grab it 429 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:33,920 with both hands really. Of course. 430 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,600 And Dave and I on this podcast has discussed many times that 431 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,560 like the one thing with this career, you do have to give 432 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,440 stuff up for it. You do have to and you have to 433 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:43,960 go where the work is. Yeah. 434 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,200 And that's part and parcel with it. 435 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,880 And obviously to our younger listeners, that's is something 436 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,800 you have to kind of face the facts and you are going to have 437 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,320 to have to, but you might not get a job in the UK or wherever 438 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:58,520 you are living. You might have to change 439 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,560 countries. And yeah, it can be a positive 440 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:01,440 thing. It can be a great thing. 441 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,320 It doesn't mean that we don't love our friends and family and 442 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:04,760 we don't miss our friends and family. 443 00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:07,880 I think the thing that I was really lucky with was that we 444 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,560 did get that like summer break here, which is Christmas for you 445 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,320 guys. So everyone here kind of goes to 446 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,400 their like Christmas batch, you know, out of town. 447 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,680 So everyone leaves like for the first couple of weeks of 448 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,840 December. So we weren't scheduled for 449 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,440 performances after that. So we got our like elongated 450 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,840 break in that time. And then we worked more during 451 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,000 the year, which it worked really well for me because one things 452 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,560 that my family's always like you have to be home for Christmas. 453 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,560 You know, that was kind of like my kind of like safe haven of 454 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,280 like having all that time. That's really special with my 455 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,920 family and it's one of my favorite times of the year, so. 456 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:50,320 So you have performed in many different styles, if it's story 457 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,760 tape, narrative ballets, modern ballets. 458 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,560 Is there something that you particularly feel that you love? 459 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,240 Dancing I just, it sounds really naff but I just love it all. 460 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,680 Like. I love being a character on 461 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,080 stage. I mean, I think that's what I 462 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,920 learnt a lot actually from my time in Tivoli, playing all the 463 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,480 characters and with Harlequin and Columbine and even like good 464 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:18,680 old washer women getting to experiment on stage and be funny 465 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,160 and artistic as well as yeah, play and dance. 466 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,280 And that's part of the reason why I loved staying in New 467 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,640 Zealand because we got to do these kind of like mainstage 468 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,560 ballets like Midsummer Night's Dream, Romeo and Juliet, where 469 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,200 you could do these playful characters like Mercutio, Puck 470 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,880 and as well as our series kind of like mixed bill seasons where 471 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,440 we did like Alexander Ekman, William Forsythe, Killian. 472 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,360 It just without 1, you can't enjoy the other. 473 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,840 So yeah, I think that they're challenging in different ways, 474 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,560 but I just love it. But that's great because there 475 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,560 was, obviously there are. We're all different and we all 476 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,080 have different loves and strengths and all this kind of 477 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,440 stuff. And there are lots of people who 478 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,840 do to gear towards the classical side and when it, you know, are 479 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,440 modern pieces in the repertoire, it's not really their cup of tea 480 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,560 or whatever. So it's great that you're in a 481 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,800 company that has such a varied repertoire where you actually 482 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,000 enjoy it all. I think you need that, 483 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,320 especially in a smaller company, you know, you need something 484 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,880 that each person, like you said, is going to look forward to, 485 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,920 like some people will be looking forward to, like Sleeping 486 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,200 Beauty, where others will be looking forward to like the 487 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,480 mixed bill where they get to do more contemporary works. 488 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,840 And you'll be looking forward to going home at Christmas. 489 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,360 Yeah, exactly. With my Turkey and my nieces and 490 00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:36,440 nephews and lots of presents. A little bit of snow if I'm 491 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,280 lucky. Where parts of Scotland are you 492 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:39,520 from? I'm from Perth. 493 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,640 Perth, sure, Yeah. So just in between Glasgow and 494 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,680 Edinburgh. So kind of like in the middle? 495 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,960 My granny used to live in Aberfeldy. 496 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,800 Oh, cute. Yeah. 497 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,480 Aberfeldy. I'm just down the road from 498 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,680 Pitlochry, so yeah, very close. I love it. 499 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,920 And literally when I went back, my grandma was she passed a 500 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,480 couple of years ago and we went to go spend some time with her 501 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,520 before she did. And I hadn't been back to 502 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,480 Scotland for years. And literally just as soon as I 503 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,400 got off the plane, sat on the train and started going through 504 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,600 the countryside to get to where she lived. 505 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,640 Oh my God, it just like Reawoke that love for Scotland and the. 506 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,000 And nothing ever changes, so it would have been exactly the. 507 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,520 Same, but like being in New Zealand, you must have a a 508 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,200 little bit of home there with the scenery and the landscape. 509 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,880 Yeah, I think that it's what's kept me here for so long. 510 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,920 It does remind me so much of Scotland. 511 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,680 I mean, the one thing that I do find strange even now is I 512 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,560 remember flying in and I was seeing all these houses just 513 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,400 perched on hills. And I was like, why are they 514 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,080 building their houses on top of hills? 515 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,000 Like, we don't even do that in Scotland. 516 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,160 Why are they building on these beautiful hills? 517 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,000 Yeah, but it's. Yeah, it's really got that 518 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,640 scenery that's just the same as Scotland. 519 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,760 The people are welcoming and sweet. 520 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,320 And I mean, you go in a shop and people that still ask you how 521 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,480 you are. Kira, good morning. 522 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,160 You know, like the only other place I know that people do 523 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,520 that, it's in Scotland. Although whenever you do go 524 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,600 there, it does bloody rain. It's the awful weather. 525 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,040 Yeah, it's exactly the same here in Wellington. 526 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,320 It's rainy and the wind blows you sideways, just like home. 527 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,920 So after being in New Zealand for a couple of years, what was 528 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,040 your first choreographic gig? Was it for the company or was it 529 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,320 for Fashion Week? So my first gig was really 530 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,040 random. It was a friend of mine. 531 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,520 She had a friend that was doing a music video and she was like, 532 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,840 oh, do you want to choreograph something for me for this music 533 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,720 video? And I was like, why not? 534 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,280 Got nothing else to do. Yeah, filmed it in a warehouse. 535 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,440 It was really a cool experience and really fun. 536 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:47,960 And that's kind of where I get it. 537 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,360 Like got the itch again to start creating and then I actually put 538 00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:55,160 myself forward for. We had a in house like 539 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,840 choreographic competition called like the Harry Hawthorn 540 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,760 Choreographic Award. And I decided to put myself 541 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,640 forward for that and I won that in 2016 and I just kind of get 542 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,840 kept getting commissioned since then, which have been really 543 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:11,560 happy about. You have choreographed for 544 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,880 Fashion Week and I wanted to to ask you because obviously lots 545 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,680 of commercial or hip hop or jazz choreographers have worked in 546 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,640 those places before, but as a ballet choreographer, how did 547 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,960 you feel suddenly going from, you know, choreographing on a, 548 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,760 let's just say a proper stage to a catwalk? 549 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,640 I thought it was really fun. It was really interesting 550 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,960 experience to like creatively challenge yourself. 551 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,400 So a lot of the material I made, I knew it was going to 552 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,720 constantly keep moving forward and then it had to be repeated, 553 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,040 moving backwards. And it was quite interesting 554 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,400 experience because it was for a new I am fit collection she was 555 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,720 doing. So it was lots of like bra tops 556 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,360 and like tights and sportswear. So it was very fitting to kind 557 00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:57,920 of the balletic style that I have, which is kind of a bit 558 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,440 more new age ballet where the ladies are like sliding on 559 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,120 points. So they got to like slide down 560 00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:06,920 the stage and bury around. And I got the man to like lift 561 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,600 the ladies from man to man, have her just like hovering over the 562 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:11,480 stage. So. 563 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,120 Showcasing her, kind of. Yeah, it was a fun experiment to 564 00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:18,120 kind of bring ballet to a new audience as well, because it 565 00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:21,360 doesn't really cross pollinate that much, which is, I find 566 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:24,680 really unfortunate. It's such a give and take kind 567 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,800 of thing that we can do, and whenever I get a chance to 568 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,320 collaborate like that, I just go for it and kind of just give my 569 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,560 little style to it and see how it's received. 570 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,600 But do you find that in a situation like that when, for 571 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,160 example, the audience is in a different place to how they are 572 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,080 usually on the other side of the prosymium or and you're now on a 573 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,840 catwalk instead of a stage and the floor maybe is not a 574 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,760 Harlequin sprung floor and all those kind of problems, do you 575 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,800 find they help you or hinder you choreographing? 576 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,160 I think it just challenges me in a different way. 577 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,160 That's the thing, like you can't jump or do massive leaps on 578 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,040 these kind of stages. So I just change it up and do 579 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,840 like different kinds of lifts or maybe feature more something on 580 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,560 the spot. I did a Commission for Auckland 581 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,240 Art Gallery. There was I made a piece for two 582 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,000 men which obviously had the same kind of limitations. 583 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,760 They couldn't jump or do much turning. 584 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,520 It was kind of on like slidy flooring. 585 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,000 So we just kind of developed it around that idea. 586 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,360 And it's also like having that rapport with the dancers and be 587 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,440 like, hey, let me know if this doesn't work on the day because 588 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,040 we can do this, that and the next thing. 589 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,520 So it's having all these kind of different things you can pull 590 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,920 from the piece and kind of change it up on the spot, which 591 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,240 is exciting but a little stressful. 592 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,920 But you think it gives you, I mean, because when I've 593 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,400 choreographed in a weird place, sometimes I feel like it opens 594 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,480 my, my creativity up in a new way because you're forced to not 595 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,280 do the big jumps, the big lifts, the Fuetes or whatever it is. 596 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,240 You're forced to not do ballet steps. 597 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,640 So like you feel a little bit more like, oh, so I have to be 598 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,160 more creative. Yeah, it makes you think more 599 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,120 creatively, and also it gives you some a chance to do 600 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,600 something that you probably wouldn't have done before as 601 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:08,960 well. Yeah. 602 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,320 Like, because if I'd been giving the piece of music, for 603 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,360 instance, I envisioned the the piece in my head before I said 604 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,560 anything. So having the limitation makes 605 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,080 me think about it in a different way. 606 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,800 And how then the audience see that as well. 607 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:22,600 I agree. I think it makes you think 608 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,640 differently. And that's what we need to do to 609 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,000 ourselves, to challenge ourselves. 610 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,920 I mean, and also as a, as a creative person, just like with 611 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,160 anything, you can get stuck, you can get creatively stuck, you 612 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,440 can get writer's block or whatever you want to call it and 613 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,800 putting obstacles in your way. Actually, a probably one of the 614 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,520 best ways to help you. Instead of going 615 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:43,680 straightforward, let's go sideways. 616 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,920 Let's do something completely out-of-the-box and like shake it 617 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,200 up a bit. Yeah, definitely. 618 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,080 It's definitely in the spaces as well that are different shape. 619 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,040 You know, we're so used to having that, like standard 620 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,280 stage, like you were saying. So like, yeah, having the 621 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,520 catwalk long and narrow, like being in an art gallery where 622 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,120 you can only use like a semicircle space and then you 623 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,200 have to walk to a different space with the audience. 624 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,200 You know, it makes you think about dance differently and how 625 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,920 immersive it can be. And also, like you said, it is a 626 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,080 shame that ballet is the majority of time in its place in 627 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,920 its theatre and it doesn't get to come out into the wild as 628 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,880 much. You know, jazz dancing and hip 629 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,840 hop dancing can be in musicals and can be in a theatre, but it 630 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:26,360 is also in fashion shows on the street, in festivals, in music 631 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,280 videos, in films. And ballet kind of the majority 632 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,240 of the time stays where it is. And it's must be really exciting 633 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,560 to take it out and try and show some fashion people, some 634 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,360 ballet. Yeah, definitely. 635 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,920 And it's people think of ballet as being like this rigid art 636 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,480 form that it's just tutus and a girl teetering about, but it's 637 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:44,720 really not. It's fluid. 638 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,320 It can be like massive and expressive and it can be human 639 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,240 as well. And I think that when people see 640 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,560 it in those kind of settings, they can really actually relate 641 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,080 to it. And it doesn't become this kind 642 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,840 of thing that's unattainable and you can't touch. 643 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,920 Yeah, because people do have a preconceived idea of what they 644 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:02,280 think ballet is. You know, everyone always puts 645 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,360 their arms in faith and does like a stupid bullet go, oh, 646 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,880 ballet, twinkle toes ballet kind of thing. 647 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:09,800 And it's. Yeah. 648 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,080 But you do know it's 2025 and things have changed. 649 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,320 I mean, things have changed since the 90s. 650 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,560 Things have changed since 50. Exactly. 651 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,520 We're not still doing what Alicia Alonso did. 652 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,800 Alicia Alonso. Love her without those people, 653 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,560 like paving the way and changing dance. 654 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,560 So though they were shaking it up, thinking about like, Sylvie 655 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,360 GM, you know, like Darcy Bussell back in the day, like these 656 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,840 people were breaking the norms of what classic classical ballet 657 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,360 is seen as. 100% because Sylvie was when she was lifting her 658 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,640 legs up it was so my God that's not ballet, that's far too 659 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,040 modern or whatever. Like even that was ground 660 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,120 breaking and new. Yeah, and that wasn't even that 661 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,280 long ago. It actually was quite a while 662 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:53,760 ago. We're talking late 80s, 663 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,280 nineties. We're talking last century. 664 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,920 Oh my goodness, don't. Last Millennium. 665 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,600 So I asked you, as a dancer, how do you feel as a choreographer? 666 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,840 Are you drawn more to modern neoclassical bending new ways of 667 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,520 ballet than creating clean classical ballet ballet? 668 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,920 If that makes sense. It's kind of like a marriage of 669 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,560 both for me. It's using that structure of 670 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,160 clean classical ballet and then like shaking it up, extending 671 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,720 the line, taking it to kind of more extremes. 672 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,120 Like my inspirations are people like William Forsythe, you know, 673 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,240 David Dawson, those kind of people that have that kind of 674 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,800 home language in ballet, but using it to remain fresh and 675 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,440 current and modern. What is ballet now for us? 676 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,720 You know what? What can it be now to tell 677 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:46,080 stories and how can we use our bodies in a more complex way? 678 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,480 You know, we can move a lot differently now than we could 679 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:49,920 back then. So it's just kind of like 680 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,880 testing those kind of like limits to what we can and can't 681 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,440 do. And yeah, just playing with it. 682 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,680 But I love the structure of classical dance. 683 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,520 I love the way that it can be expressive and can be 684 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,680 restrained. And you can say a lot just with 685 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,840 your body, you know, you don't have to do too much. 686 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,200 And where do you? This is quite a artsy, fancy 687 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:12,920 question, but apart from watching dance, where do you as 688 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,800 a choreographer find inspiration? 689 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,800 Oh, music 100%. I just love listening to all 690 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,239 kinds of music. I love. 691 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,920 I love creating to like my favorite pop song at the time. 692 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,880 So I'll just be like jamming to whatever I've got on repeat in 693 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,679 the studio and creating phrases to that kind of fuel me. 694 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,239 Lyrics, some kind of portrait, you know, movies or massive 695 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,880 inspiration. Like being outside in nature is 696 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,679 also like, there's nothing like taking a walk with your 697 00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:44,679 headphones on. 100% it's 100 beautiful music. 698 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,159 But I've been lucky enough to be really inspired by like my 699 00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:50,880 colleagues, like having people that I've created on for a long 700 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,840 time now within the company. It's been such a blessing 701 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,400 because I know I know things that they're capable of that 702 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,280 they can't see themselves. And when you see somebody 703 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,200 achieve that, and when you see them have this epiphany and they 704 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,680 take that with them into the next project, it's really 705 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,160 gratifying to know that you can stretch people in that kind of 706 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,280 way. And they push me too, you know, 707 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,080 in different ways that I can get my point across to get them to 708 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,880 try lots of different ways. And I feel really privileged 709 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,960 that they've really looked after me and taken everything that I 710 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,480 think on board, you know, because it's really hard to 711 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,600 trust somebody else with what you think, you know, as a 712 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,880 dancer. So I feel very privileged that 713 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,120 they've just come along on this crazy ride with me and each time 714 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,480 we create something, it's completely different to the 715 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,120 thing we've done before, but still build, building on the 716 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,640 language which I want to create for myself because as a dancer, 717 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,320 it is. Well, as anything, it's always 718 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,760 hard to come out of your your realm, your safety blanket, your 719 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,080 what you know. And especially as a dancer, 720 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,680 you've been doing this for goodness knows how many years. 721 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,800 So when someone then asks you to move in a different way or to do 722 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,160 something in a different way, that is scary. 723 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,280 But to have that trust with the choreographer and to have the 724 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,720 trust that your colleagues will go on the journey with you and 725 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,080 you're in a safe environment is just is what's needed. 726 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,120 Yeah. And it's it's hard to find. 727 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,080 Those safe spaces, you know, but when you're in it, it's just 728 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,880 magical, you know? It takes dance to a whole new 729 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,720 level. And we do it because it feeds 730 00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:21,280 the soul. And when you have those kind of 731 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,440 moments with people, it really makes it worth it. 732 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,560 And that's why I love being in the studio so much, because so 733 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,840 much of what you see on stage is just that end product. 734 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,840 And you learn so much on that journey from start to finish of 735 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,880 being in the studio. I love being in the studio. 736 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,280 Yeah, it's not the same. Thing that's. 737 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,720 Everyday working on a piece and making it grow and bringing it 738 00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:41,680 to life. You know, it's, it's really, 739 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,960 really cool and magical. I mean, there is obviously being 740 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,520 on stage. And showing the finished product 741 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,680 and performing and all that kind of stuff is great. 742 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,280 But especially as a choreographer or as a rehearsal 743 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,200 director or a member of the artistic team, let's just say 744 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,360 once it gets on stage, obviously there's noting and corrections 745 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,640 and all that kind of stuff. But like your main work of in 746 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,960 the studio is stopped. I love being in the studio and 747 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,080 like molding and working and correcting and trying something 748 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,840 else. And this the studio is just, I 749 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,000 love the studio. It's it's also that. 750 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,480 Kind of. We're always trying to achieve 751 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,720 that kind of like perfect moment, you know, that doesn't 752 00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:18,040 really exist. So you're always, there is 753 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,160 always something to say and to build on and trying it in 754 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:22,920 different ways. And having that time in the 755 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,520 studio to work on your craft is, yeah, it's so magical. 756 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,440 Like we're there every single day, you know, the performance 757 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,840 is fleeting. It's like a couple of hours one 758 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:32,720 night. Exactly. 759 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,360 All that work in the studio is really, really important. 760 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,440 Without it, you couldn't have that flawless performance, you 761 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,440 know, And also there's that thing as. 762 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,160 As a dancer, for example, when you're in the studio, it is is 763 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:49,720 hopefully a safe space so you can fuck up, you can fall over. 764 00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:53,280 You can obviously when you're doing the show, the performance, 765 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,280 obviously you are giving it your all and you're in the role and 766 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,800 you're in the character and all this kind of blah, blah, blah. 767 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,840 But there is a part of your brain that is also don't fall 768 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:02,880 over. I have to be correct. 769 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,240 It can't go wrong. So you do hold back a tiny bit 770 00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:07,960 than you would in a rehearsal space. 771 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,200 Yeah, you could be selfish in a rehearsal space to use a better 772 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,520 word and actually like, oh, what if I do this? 773 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,400 Whereas on stage you are going to have to hold back as the only 774 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,040 way I could describe it. Yeah, I think that without. 775 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,040 Those times in the studio though, like you know how far 776 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,040 you can push it on stage, so you know, there's just that little 777 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,920 bit that you have to hold back. But without the knowledge of 778 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,480 everything that you push for in the studio, you know that you 779 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,480 can go even a little bit further than you think. 780 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,560 That kind of Gray area of holding back gets smaller and 781 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,560 smaller the more you practice and the more you push yourself 782 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,800 and get to know your body and different ways that you can do 783 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,280 it. So, Sean before I. 784 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,960 Move on to some little pop questions for you. 785 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:52,440 I would like to ask is there any advice you would give? 786 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,160 Not this sounds like a RuPaul question. 787 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,960 To your younger self. No, not to your younger. 788 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:00,720 Self because that was a different time. 789 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,680 There was razor flip phones and people were playing snake on 790 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:06,800 Nokia phones. Now is there any advice you 791 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,160 would give to a dance student or someone just about to graduate? 792 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,560 Right now I think it's just learning about. 793 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,520 The world of dance, you know, the more you can absorb about 794 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,160 dancing companies and techniques and training methods and 795 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,000 different teachers, there's so much to know. 796 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,440 And I think it would just be learning all of that before you 797 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,880 make any kind of choice, you know, and also when you made a 798 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,040 choice, just go with it and be in it wholeheartedly. 799 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,840 There's so many distractions now. 800 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,880 People are looking for the next thing or something better. 801 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,040 I think there's something to be said in making a commitment and 802 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,480 standing by it and then getting something out of that process, 803 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,440 whether it be that you stay within it or you leave. 804 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,720 And I think that it is such a challenging career. 805 00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:52,400 It's making sure that you're mentally healthy to get involved 806 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,640 in dance and have that longevity that you need and that you have 807 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,720 that person you can reach out to if you don't. 808 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,880 I think that's super important, especially in the time we're in 809 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,840 now. You know, it's such a, it's a 810 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,360 tough industry as we know, but I think that this younger 811 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,640 generation of dancers, there's so much out there and so much 812 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,720 pressure to be perfect, you know, these people. 813 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,040 Doing 10 pirouettes on Instagram and blah, blah, blah, people 814 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,240 bouncing on their heads. So I think it's really important 815 00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:20,320 to have someone you can reach out to and say, hey, I'm not 816 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,320 doing so good, help me out. And you can have that 817 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,160 relationship with someone where you can be there for them too. 818 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:27,920 Yeah. It would just be immersing 819 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,800 yourself within it, making a commitment to whatever it is you 820 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,920 choose, and also making sure that you're mentally fit to take 821 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,360 on those challenges. I think what you say there about 822 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,000 making a. Commitment is really, really 823 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,320 important because we can all make the wrong decision or you 824 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,520 don't know until you try. So let's just say you have ended 825 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,720 up in a company that maybe you don't see yourself staying for 826 00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:53,680 another season or in a contract and you think I'm not going to 827 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,880 renew my contract here, but you made a commitment. 828 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,880 So while you're there, be there wholeheartedly. 829 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,560 And that's the thing with even being in those. 830 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,720 Experiences as well, like you still have that class every day 831 00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:07,440 where you can better yourself, you can change your mindset on 832 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,120 what you're working on and and then decide the next step. 833 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,720 There's something to be said about being present in class. 834 00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:18,200 It's really a really beautiful thing that you have for yourself 835 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,680 every day, an hour and a half where you can better yourself 836 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,080 and any way you see fit, whether it be your Porter bra, your 837 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,360 turns, or just being there. That day is sometimes more than 838 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,120 enough as well. 100% right. I mean, I've stood up many on 839 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:38,320 this podcast that a lot of the time I have used class as a way 840 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,800 to be artistic or a way to be creative, a way to dance. 841 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,360 Because you're just about to go into the studio and just do 842 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,080 rehearsal, rehearsal, rehearsal, rehearsal. 843 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,080 And it might not be a piece that is very creative for you. 844 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,240 So you use class as a mental thing instead of a physical 845 00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:56,080 thing 100%. Oh, hi Sean. 846 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,000 I have some questions to. Ask for you asking. 847 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,440 Go on then. OK, Oh, we've actually touched 848 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:02,320 on some. Of these already. 849 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,240 So where is the most amazing venue you've ever performed? 850 00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:10,840 Oh, that is so tough. We went on tour to Italy and we 851 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,760 performed in a theatre in the Vatican City. 852 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,800 That was pretty cool. Wow, this theatre's in the. 853 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,520 Vatican City, Yeah, it's just like on the outskirts. 854 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,680 Of the Vatican, it was amazing. We got still like a mixed bill 855 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,600 performance there. It was really, really fun. 856 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,360 Our director at the time, he was Italian, so he took us on a 857 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,600 international tour to the UK and Italy, and that was a really 858 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,760 amazing memory. But actually love performing in 859 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,680 our home theater here in Wellington, too. 860 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,760 It's just being renovated, the Saint James Theatre, and that's 861 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,440 where our studios are based as well. 862 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,200 And it's just, there's nothing like that old fashioned theatre, 863 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:44,760 you know? Yeah. 864 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,000 And the smell of the. Dressing room? 865 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,280 Yeah, the damp carpets, you know. 866 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:53,440 The old rosin box in the corner that. 867 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,120 Kind of has this weird musky smell. 868 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,400 Yeah, the draft coming up from. Underneath the floor. 869 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,040 Gotta love it all. Right do. 870 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,720 You have a favorite dancer, whether it was when you were 871 00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:05,960 growing up or even still to this day. 872 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,280 Now. Is there that one person? 873 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,320 Not really. I really was inspired. 874 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,680 By like Michael Flatley, like on the television, you know, doing 875 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:18,600 this little tippity tap. I just I. 876 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,880 Love the ballerinas, you know, like Sarah Lamb. 877 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,040 Like, I remember going religiously to watch her at the 878 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:25,840 Opera House. Whatever she would do, I'd just 879 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,160 be like, oh, she's so beautiful. Yeah. 880 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:29,560 Sarah Lamb's lovely. Yeah. 881 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,640 It was that kind of like. Being there to support the 882 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,320 ballerina, I really like, loved that when I was at school. 883 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,320 I love doing that kind of like pot of dough work. 884 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,200 Yeah. Sarah Lamb got a love. 885 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,520 A ballerina, Yeah. It's just like with your pop 886 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,160 Divas. We love the Kelly Clarksons and 887 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,200 the Britney's and the Mariah's. We love the ballerinas. 888 00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:49,600 Field power. Yeah, can't be in this industry. 889 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,560 Without them, all right, what is the? 890 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,800 1st. Theatre or dance production you 891 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,720 ever saw? Oh my goodness. 892 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:58,960 And this is not. Watching the recording of. 893 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,240 Yourself as Michael Darling? No. 894 00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:05,600 Singing in the rain. I saw it sadly as well as we 895 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,000 did, like a a school trip or something like that, and it was 896 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,320 singing in the rain. Yeah, cool, my friend was 897 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:13,840 probably. In it, I mean, I don't know. 898 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:14,960 How young is he? Oh, that's. 899 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,320 A nice way to put it. He's 45. 900 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:22,400 Do. You have a. 901 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,080 Favorite all time ballet production? 902 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,680 That's tough not. To be in, to watch, it's hard to 903 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:29,960 get. Past the white accent. 904 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,800 Swan Lake, to be fair, they're just so beautiful and like, as I 905 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,120 said before, like ballets about the ballerinas, you know, the 906 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,520 athleticism of those dancers that sustain those acts. 907 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,120 Just even the beautiful quarter ballet girls at the side that 908 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,960 that take you and transform you into a place that you've never 909 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,600 been before. You're just sitting there at the 910 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,480 lake and those White Axe have everything. 911 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,120 They have everything because they've got like the ensemble 912 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,960 stuff, They've got the Paradise, they've got quartets, they've 913 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,360 got solos. I mean, the White Axe and Swan 914 00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,960 Lake are just, yeah, perfection. And Giselle, you know when 915 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:03,360 those. Women come out and they're like 916 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,360 doing their hops in Arabes, You know, the whole theatre's 917 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:07,480 shaking and everyone's like, wow. 918 00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:15,280 The girls every time they hop. Kill me, kill me, kill me, kill 919 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:16,720 me. Yeah, they're like, no, not. 920 00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:19,840 Another one. I've got 75 more performances. 921 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,200 Oh my God. And Baya Deir has an entrance 922 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,920 like that, doesn't it as well? Oh yeah, the shades arabesque 923 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:28,240 the. Shades down the ramp. 924 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:33,120 Down the ramp, there's another one being that. 925 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:34,840 Being that poor first. Girl out. 926 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,120 You know when we did Matt Swan Lake I. 927 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,640 Was the second boy out as a swan? 928 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,920 Oh kill me. Gosh, my shins have never 929 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,320 forgiven me. I'm not surprised. 930 00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:48,280 But yeah, that is such a beautiful production, though. 931 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,240 Like, I wish that I'd been involved with this one. 932 00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:54,080 Like, I remember seeing that for the first time and thinking, 933 00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,120 wow, what a different creative way of looking at classical 934 00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,400 ballet. Like, at the time it was. 935 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,360 It was groundbreaking and still such a beautiful piece to see 936 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:03,040 now. Yeah. 937 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:04,800 Well, it wouldn't be this podcast. 938 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,280 If we didn't bring it up. So there you go, Matt. 939 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,280 Hopefully you're getting your royalties. 940 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,560 So what was the last piece of music? 941 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,360 Or song you listened to. Oh K pop demon. 942 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:23,160 Hunter is golden. I can't even I'm I'm literally 943 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,360 waking up singing it. I've watched it for the first 944 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,680 time like 2 nights ago. I am absolutely obsessed. 945 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,480 I was going to sleep singing it. I woke up this morning singing 946 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,960 it. See, I'm stuck on the. 947 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,480 Abe's new song Shook I just love. 948 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,560 How everyone is bringing back music, though, You know, Sugar 949 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,600 babes are back bringing back music. 950 00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:46,920 Steps came back. They gave me everything I 951 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,080 wanted, you know? Please. 952 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:52,280 They're even bringing back the flip phone. 953 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:53,440 Come on. Oh well, yeah. 954 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,480 All right, so. What is a song or a piece? 955 00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,360 Of music that always makes you want to dance, not necessarily 956 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,680 choreograph and create makes you want to move your body oh I mean 957 00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:04,800 anything by. Shakira. 958 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:12,120 These hips don't lie. Also I love. 959 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:17,120 Max Richter and oh, Max Richter Vivaldi. 960 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,160 Four Seasons is. They're one of my favorite 961 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:23,400 pieces of music classically, so yeah, see lots of depth here. 962 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,480 Classics and K pop. Classics and K pop. 963 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:32,160 With a side of Shakira. Do you have a favorite? 964 00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,240 Teacher that you've ever had, whether it be open class or at 965 00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:39,200 school or yeah, we got taught by. 966 00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,160 Cynthia Harvey, when I was at English National Ballet School, 967 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,760 and I just remember her classes so, so vividly. 968 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,440 She was so inspiring and obviously being such a amazing 969 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,040 ballerina herself and having that amazing career. 970 00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:54,240 But she was there for us in the room. 971 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,640 And as a student, I think you don't forget people that come in 972 00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:59,840 and make you feel like that, make you feel seen. 973 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,480 So yeah, she's inspiration. And I remember those classes 974 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,400 fondly still now, even though they were so long ago. 975 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,440 I mean, there is something to be said about teachers. 976 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,960 Who come in and, yeah, find that they've had a fantastic career 977 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,720 and they, their word is gospel. But the ones that make you feel 978 00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:18,560 that the class is about you as the dancer and you as the 979 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,760 student and not about them teaching the class. 980 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,120 There's something to be said about that kind of way of giving 981 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,200 a class. It just felt so personal. 982 00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:27,720 And she was. There for each individual 983 00:48:27,720 --> 00:48:30,440 student as well. All right, my favorite question 984 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:31,960 A. Memorable time you made a 985 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:36,280 mistake or forgot an entrance or something on stage. 986 00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,480 It wasn't me, but I was doing. This new Cinderella a couple of 987 00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,680 years ago and there's this moment where I'm supposed to 988 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,240 have this bouquet of flowers and as the Prince, I'm supposed to 989 00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:48,280 give it to Cinderella and one of the core dancers forgot to bring 990 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,760 on the bunch of flowers. And then we're just both 991 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,040 standing there going what do we do now? 992 00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,320 And the whole like next part of do was a awkward part of do 993 00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,840 about her getting smacked in the face with flowers. 994 00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,640 So that's not having the prop. I was didn't know what to do. 995 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,520 I didn't know whether Tapper in the head like what? 996 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,680 How do we make this Aqua part of the funny and comical without 997 00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,160 this prop that's supposed to aid us? 998 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,560 That's probably the most recent strange thing that's happened on 999 00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,480 stage. Actually, you know what? 1000 00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:18,760 I. Remember when we did Torn dot 1001 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,040 with the jock straps and the ponytails? 1002 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,000 I remember. I can't remember his name and I 1003 00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:29,840 don't want a name and shame. Did we go down and? 1004 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,000 We were all in our costumes and he had his trackies on and he 1005 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,800 took his trackies off and put them on like behind the totem 1006 00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:38,760 pole. But we want to fucking revolve. 1007 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:42,480 Yeah, it turned around. And his track pads were on 1008 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,680 stage, Yes. Oh my goodness. 1009 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,160 I mean without making those mistakes. 1010 00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:50,520 Though you know you never do it again. 1011 00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:55,160 You never do it again, but also. Like if everything was perfect, 1012 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,160 it would be fun. Yeah, I know. 1013 00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,160 And then what? Kind of stories would we have? 1014 00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,120 It'd be boring, you know. Do you remember your entrance? 1015 00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:06,760 In Michael Corda's piece, you would enter from the wing and 1016 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:11,600 just jump and land in like second arms through 5th and the 1017 00:50:11,720 --> 00:50:15,040 the sound technician, the stage manager, had to give a go to 1018 00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,920 land on the music. The music, yeah. 1019 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,000 And I just. Remember you, you landing. 1020 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,640 Jumping on stage and it felt like half an hour before the 1021 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,440 music goes. But, I mean, it was probably 1022 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,240 about, you know, 3 seconds. But still, it's very obvious 1023 00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:34,200 even to an untrained eye that the music was supposed to catch 1024 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,160 you as you landed. It's like Sean Lance did it. 1025 00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,840 Yeah. There's a famous story here. 1026 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,760 During Swan Lake, the ballerina came on and she did her split 1027 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,960 jetty, bum bum, and then the music just didn't keep going. 1028 00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,240 She had to go off and we had to restart the music again. 1029 00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:54,480 She did the entrance Bum bum happened again. 1030 00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,520 Happened three times. Checked before they even see her 1031 00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,480 coming. I mean live. 1032 00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,280 Theatre technical difficulties, you know, Still. 1033 00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:07,360 Still with us? Nothing quite like live theatre. 1034 00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,160 No. Oh my God. 1035 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,960 All right, Sean, final question. Tell me a story about the best 1036 00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,240 premier party or final night party you've ever been to him. 1037 00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,000 I think the parties at Tivoli were. 1038 00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:24,200 Pretty epic. I'm not going to lie. 1039 00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:27,600 Yeah, there were. Yeah, the Danes. 1040 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,360 Do you know how to party? We actually had a party here 1041 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,160 with Johann Koeberg as well. He came over to set Le Lutan for 1042 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,920 us in my first year with the company and he just decided that 1043 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:40,240 he was going to leave a week early. 1044 00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:43,960 So we all went out for a drink to say goodbye to him and it was 1045 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,920 so much fun. And then the next day the 1046 00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:48,440 company manager was like, where's your hand? 1047 00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,200 And we were like, I have no idea. 1048 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:55,400 I mean, there was something to say about the. 1049 00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,680 Parties in Tivoli because there is something very strange that 1050 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:02,160 you hardly anyone experiences walking through an amusement 1051 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,600 park when it's closed at 4:00 in the morning. 1052 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,200 Oh my gosh, it just, it felt. Like a fever dream, like a kid 1053 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,240 dream. You know, it's, it was such a 1054 00:52:10,240 --> 00:52:13,440 magical place, you know, getting to be behind the scenes there 1055 00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:17,360 and like going in and out around all of like the roller coasters 1056 00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:21,680 and like the rock festivals. And we were so lucky and we did 1057 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,240 Tiffany school. Do you remember Tivoli? 1058 00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:25,480 School. Oh my my God, Tivoli school. 1059 00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,120 Cute they teach you like the the history. 1060 00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:31,760 Of the park, but then also then yeah, take you inside some of 1061 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,000 the roller coasters and stuff. I loved it. 1062 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,320 I remember actually talking about. 1063 00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,240 Parties. Every party used to have like a 1064 00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:40,880 party committee. You and I did a party together. 1065 00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,600 Yeah, we did a party with. Jen no. 1066 00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,320 With Tori, was it Like, what was it? 1067 00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:50,400 Like kind of Bollywood theme. Yeah, I can't remember. 1068 00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,880 What it was, I just remember us being like, come in everyone, 1069 00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:58,000 woo. And I think that was a good 1070 00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,680 thing about. Tivoli, like we worked really 1071 00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:04,000 hard, but we knew how to enjoy ourselves and make it fun, yeah. 1072 00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,880 Professional now. Well, thank you very much Sean 1073 00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,360 for joining me today. It was lovely catching up with 1074 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,200 you and thank you everybody to and thank you everybody. 1075 00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:21,480 I can't do it when you're. Staring at me. 1076 00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,320 You're nearly there. And thank you everybody for 1077 00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,360 listening. To another episode of drinks at 1078 00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,320 the bar if you have enjoyed the episode, please give a little 1079 00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,640 rating and share with your friends Sean is being lovely 1080 00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:34,520 thanks so much for having me you know it's. 1081 00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,760 Been great catching up take. Care you too. 1082 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:38,040 Bye for now. Bye.