Hello and welcome to Drinks at the Bar, a podcast where we
break through the 4th wall and discuss everything about dance
and the theatre industry. My name is Paul James Rooney, a
dancer, choreographer and dance teacher based in Copenhagen, and
I am your host of Drinks at the Bar and today I am joined by my
regular guest host, the beautiful Carla Bruni.
Hi everybody, I'm Carla Bruni, director of the Dancer Studio
London, classical ballet teacher and actor with the Royal Ballet.
It's actually Damian Luster here.
We will discuss everything from hearing backstage stories,
touring shenanigans, to deeper issues like body image training
and the reality of being a freelance dancer.
With guest professional OH. My God, sorry.
Reality of being a freelance dancer and more.
With guest professionals, we are here to share our knowledge,
experience, and help you with any questions or problems you
may have about dance and navigating the dance world.
Hey, Denise. Hi darling, how are you?
I'm good, thank you. I have been, you know, just busy
at work doing, doing shows, doing cut shows.
So when I'm not on at the moment for Sound of Music, if people
aren't sick, then I, you know, use my time to write down a
track for every single person. So I use my cut shows very
professionally. So I literally will take a
specific actor or dancer in the show and write down exactly what
they do so that in an emergency, I think I have maybe three shows
left to do. Then I'll have everybody's cut
shows planned and done. So if anyone's off, I can just
open my folder and have everybody's track done on paper
and boom, they're easy to then go on for them.
Oh, brilliant. And of course, you know, if that
show comes back into the repertoire of the theatre, then
you've got a lot of Bible basically, haven't you got a log
of all of the of the roles for next time?
Which I will sell for millions. Millions and trillions.
How about you, sweetheart? What's up with you?
Well, I've started rehearsals now for Romeo and Juliet, so I'm
back at the Opera House, which I love.
So we have, I think, one more studio rehearsal, and then we're
on stage for technical rehearsals with piano and then
orchestra, and then we have a run of 29 performances, believe
it or not, in over four months. Yeah.
So busy, busy, busy and teaching during the breaks.
Yeah. I do love Romeo and Juliet.
I love Romeo and Juliet. I do too.
There are some very magical moment.
I mean, just being on that stage alone is magical.
I know that sounds kind of busy or whatnot, but you know, a live
orchestra on stage, Royal Ballet, Romeo and Juliet, It is
just beautiful. Although I have to say, last
season we did man on and I think, I mean, it's not a
competition. They're both legendary
productions. But I'm leaning more towards man
on. But maybe I'll feel differently
once we once we get into the groove with Romeo and Juliet.
Because it's so once you're in something and you're hearing
that music and you're seeing the amazing dancers around you, you
know, it's, it's hard not to, to fall back in love with it.
But either way, they're both magical productions.
And yeah, it's a joy to be on stage.
I don't know if I've ever told you about my alarm clock in the
morning. I don't like alarm clocks that
go like that wakes you up. My alarm clock, and it has been
for the past like 8 years when I wake up in the morning is the
market scene from Marlene Julia. Exactly.
That's how I wake up every morning.
Because it's like it wakes you up.
Yeah, I just, I like because obviously it is a it's the
morning in the marketplace. I like the fact that it like
slowly builds. So it goes bum, bum, bum, bum,
bum, bum, bum. So that's why I listen to it and
sometimes I let it play the entire track.
Yeah, there's a bun head in there still and.
I have to say, I mean, if if I had to get up very early for
something, a flight or whatever it was, I would set an alarm as
a backup. I generally would wake up before
my alarm goes off. But when I do set an alarm, it
is the aggressive iPhone alarm because I want something that
would actually wake me up. I fear that that would just lull
me back to sleep as Juliet. For me, it's probably, there's
probably subconscious thing there going.
You hear that music like why am I not on stage?
I should be doing something. Trigger Something triggered
#triggered. #Triggered.
Well, cheers darling. I have a lovely gin and tonic
with me again today. This is the season of gin and
tonics. I'm on the white wine spritzer
today, a little bit of a medium blend just for daytime drinking.
Hashtag working, always working. Hashtag always working in
daytime drinking. Cheers darling.
Scott, cheers, sweetie. A delight, right?
What's on the our gender today? Well.
Inspired by one of our pop questions to our guest this
season, I thought we should delve into the realm of things
going wrong. Oh well, this is going to be a
short episode for us. No, no, no, no, no.
It's not an episode about making mistakes.
That would be a short episode. It's an episode of things going
wrong in the show. So it could be someone else
making a mistake that affected you.
Technical issues, A dresser giving you the wrong costume,
Your wig. Bing, turn the wigs around,
Dina. Right, OK, got it.
Well, let's start at the very beginning.
One might say then. I don't know.
I can't. I can't.
No quotes of sound of. Music.
Why don't you kick start segment with one of your stories?
Well, actually we should start where all roads begin.
OK, we all know we're about to find out.
If you have seen Matthew Bond Swan Lake there is.
So in Act 2 all the Swans come on and do a big dancing,
dancing, dancing, dancing, dancing and then after about
what 8 minutes there's then the big part of dirt, the duet they
call it. So the big swan and the Prince
are dancing. It's mainly the big swan who's
dancing. If I'm not wrong, the Prince
doesn't dance that much in that section.
It's more hymn dancing. Reporting at work, yeah, but.
Yeah, and during this dance, there are four members of the
ensemble sat at the back doing this floor choreography.
You going with this story? Does it involve you?
Where they do this, this very simple choreography, they're sat
all together and they're all late doing some waving back and
forth, some forward, some body rolls, some floor work
basically. And duet duets ones is what it's
called now. I think I did it twice in 2 1/2
years of doing that show. I think I did it twice because I
was a sick knit. Oh yes, my dance captain.
Thank you very much. No, but it basically it rotates
for people out there who don't know it rotates.
You have sick knit dance, you have duet Swans and you have big
swan dance. Now it is not just the cygnets
that do the cichlid dance and it's not just the big Swans that
do the big swan dance. You have medium Swans and
they're kind of cut in half. Some of them learn the cichlid
dance and some learn. Some of them learn the big swan
dance and then this like rotation of who does what.
Now I 99% of my shows did signet dance when I was on don't.
I maybe had one show where I didn't do anything and I did two
shows of duet Swans and that's it.
Otherwise, I did signet dance. This duet swan moment, though,
in the show is a moment that everybody forgets.
Nobody checks the board before they go on stage.
And you're halfway through Act 2 and you suddenly go, oh, crap,
was it me? And you have this moment where
there's like eight people walking to the back about to lie
in the floor, and you go, Oh no, it wasn't me.
And then they run off stage again.
One day there'll be only two people there and everyone's in
the wings like, Oh my God, it was supposed to be you.
What are you doing? I remember the one of the two
times I did Jouette Swans running up to the back to kneel
onto the floor and there's like 6 people with me, right guys?
I know I'm right. I, I, I was shocked to see my
name on here as much as you all were.
So I know I am right. You just have these people like
halfway to the floor and then trying to like run off again.
Oh, Jouette Swans little things like that is what I mean about
things going wrong. Nothing big, nothing dangerous,
just little fond, funny memories that you might have.
Denise. Yeah, that is, I mean that that
is definitely a funny moment. And also just to go on a little
bit from that moment is that you actually kneel, you kneel down
facing upstage in like a diamond pattern.
There are, there are supposed to be 4 Swans now if you're the
closest to the front of downstage right, what happens is
when you turn from upstage, you're now leading.
So you have absolutely no one to copy from because if you've only
imagined, you've only done it twice out of, you know, 85
shows. And you learnt it in the
rehearsal period, which was two years ago.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's not really that
fresh at the forefront of your, of your memory, but you've got
nobody to copy from. And it, yeah, it's, it is a
funny moment. I mean, I haven't seen the show
in a while, but I'm pretty certain that the Swans must go
through what we went through at that age of the moment.
You're dancing your heart out, aren't you in Act 2?
And then you have to. And then you really come to a
stop and you either run off stage or you remain on stage and
it's and it, I think it's a shock for most people every
time. I literally, I have written down
some things going wrong to talk about, but I literally have just
remembered one now. I remember stood with you
backstage. We're just about to go on.
Maybe we had already done our first entrance in Act 2.
And then I come off, and then I'm stood with you in the wings,
and I remember that I hadn't painted my eyes black.
No, you haven't. I had painted my entire body
white and I'd done my triangle. Hadn't you done your eyes?
But you hadn't done your. No, I hadn't done my.
I had done my triangle but not the.
Eyes. Oh, but you hadn't done your
eyes. OK.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, in that way. And I just remember you getting
your fingers and being like, Poppy, wait, you get your two
index fingers, swipe down my painted forehead and then scrape
it across my eyelids and then push me on stage like a pushy
mother at like some kind of dance competition.
Go on, dance your little horn out.
I do remember that, yes, because we must have done that big intro
and then we're all waiting to come on for our next entrance
because you look so naked without the eyes on.
But because it's such a quick change, you obviously just got
your thing on it. You know, it's happened to all
of us at some point. But yeah, but I do.
I mean I'm not even ambidextrous but I use most on those eyelids.
Go. That is a funny moment.
I mean, OK, so whilst we're talking about Swan Lake, I have
one memory, not so comedic, but things going wrong.
And that was in Frankfurt where I was actually in the audience
watching. So noting and in act what, the
end of act one in the Soho scene, there's a curtain that's
down, but behind they're setting up the, the white pillars for
the next scene for the palace, I suppose, isn't it?
And there was just an almighty crowd.
And also there are dancers backstage, the vision Swans are
prepping and whatnot. There's all sorts of hacking
going on behind stage particularly.
I can't remember exactly what moment, but I feel Soho scene
was happening and one of the pillars crashed to the floor.
Oh Jesus. Nobody was hurt thankfully, but
it caused such a ruckus. I ran from the front of house
backstage to find out what was going on.
We had to stop the show. Curtain came down and, you know,
there had to be an announcement over the microphone to say
please, you know, just bear with us.
Well, you know, and it was an absolute accident, but it did
halt the show. I mean, now I'm talking.
I could I could give you thousands of stories, but to
other productions. But some things, some things are
kind of simple, like, you know, no, no eye makeup and they're
comedic and you can laugh about them forever.
This could have gone very badly wrong, but.
Of course, yeah, yeah. I mean, you have to.
I remember we had, I mean the director, the CEO, not director
is in like Steven Spielberg, director, director is like CEO,
director of the theatre that I work at at the moment.
He once said in passing our job on stage, with the amount of
things that are like hanging above your head and stuff like
technically we should be having hard hats on stage.
Like. The the fact that how, how
dangerous it is technically to just be stood there with, I
don't know, fake doors and fake gates and walls and everything
above your head just hanging constantly while you're on
stage. I mean, never.
If you work on stage, just never look up.
It's never look scary. Yeah, I often think of that, you
know, and the height and the lights and all.
I mean, gosh, there's so much. So you really have to have
complete trust in your crew completely, you know, And
thankfully once we start dancing, you know, our attention
is on focusing on, you know, on the choreography.
So. Chatting in the wing?
Smoking in the wings, giving each other a smoky eye, but you
don't have time to focus on what you know, the sets coming in and
out, unless, you know, sets do come in and out when you're
entrance, making your entrance and exit on some occasions.
I know at the Opera House, they're very clear about letting
us know, you know, mind your heads, you know, flies coming in
when you're walking in and out, just backstage etiquette, you
know. But, yeah, sometimes things go
wrong because, you know, on that occasion in Frankfurt, we'd been
doing a European Tour. So it's a different theatre each
week or every two weeks. So, you know, it must have been
one of the earliest shows of that week.
And you're still kind of eyeing ironing out maybe technical
issues. But yeah, so that was a moment
that was not comedic, but, you know, a classic example of
things going wrong in a live show, you know?
I mean, talking about a technical thing.
So I was when I was doing The Producers, so very early on in
the show. I can't remember his character
name. What the fuck is his name?
The Matthew Broderick role, Broderick.
Matthew Broderick is back at his office singing a song about he
wants to be a producer. And in our production there's
lots of showgirls that come on stage where he's singing.
I want to be a producer. But then we also have, I think
it's six guys dressed exactly like him being him, if that
makes sense. And we came up from the stage in
this elevator. The elevator would come up on
stage and then we would each stick our heads out and make
like, you know, a kind of totem pole of heads on like a certain
point in, in the music and then come out and do like a tap
routine as you do so with as you, as you do, you know, heads
on a totem pole. Let's do a tap routine.
And we're stood in this elevator under the stage.
And so obviously there's, I don't know, 3 eights until we're
supposed to start dancing. And then the technician next to
me just goes, it's not working. The elevator's not going to
drive up. And so I just turn to my right
and I go and I look at James and I, let's just run upstairs.
So we just run out of the elevator, run up the side of the
stairs, get into the wings and we make it to our entrance.
But we will go to do this kind of totem pole head thing.
But then we're right next to the wing and there's scenery and
everything that you wouldn't be able to see us.
So instead of just sticking our heads out the wing, I belly flop
across the stage to get my head the other side of this piece of
scenery to then start doing the totem poles there.
Luckily everybody else had the same idea and they just copied
me and I ran onto stage and started doing their heads up and
then we went into our little time step.
I'll say it works. You achieved the goal of
creating the illusion of a. But I, I love, I don't love
things going wrong. That's a very bad thing to say.
But I, something I pride myself myself in is actually the fact
that I'm very good in the moment.
Problem solver, right? How can we make it work so the
audience don't realize anything's gone wrong or how can
we continue? I, that part I, I feel that
that's one of my biggest assets and one of the reasons why I've
had such a long career, because I'm reliable in that sense.
I you can throw me on stage if something goes wrong, you know
that I will still get the job done and maybe the audience
won't even know that something went wrong.
And I think that's a very good asset to have in your arsenal.
Oh, definitely. And in those instances, you may
not even remember what you did. You know, if you keep, if you're
basically improvising within the space, Funny, isn't it?
You have a blank afterwards, but you know, something happened.
You kept the show moving and the audience pretty much didn't
suspect anything at all. To be honest, not at all.
I have a couple of stories from the Johann Strauss Gala.
They're 2 funny stories. Oh Jesus.
Well, I have more than two but. Well, that's because it's Lucy
Burns and Julianne working with them and their stories.
Or we need to get Lucy Burns on the podcast.
She has story. Has some great stories.
I don't know if you were with us on this season, but it was a New
Year's Day performance. Oh Jesus in Birmingham.
We've spoken about how we feel about New Year's Day.
I'm not sure. I think you might have already
moved to Denmark by this point. But anyway, so it's New Year's
Day. We'd done a show the night
before for New Year's Eve at the Barbican Centre in London.
We jumped on the tour bus. We'd driven from London up to
Birmingham, checked into the hotel, gone to the hotel bar,
drank all night because it's New Year's Eve show the next day
like a matinee, so everyone's tired.
It's freezing. We're in Birmingham.
We're in Birmingham, you know, and we have to gear ourselves up
for a show. So we're on, we're on stage,
we're probably midway through a performance now.
The stage in the theatre in Birmingham is quite small.
But so wide. Wide and the orchestra are also
on stage with us for every performance because it's it's a
celebration of Strauss with a conductor who's also comparing
the show and as dancers and these musicians.
Now I think it was Julianne and her partner in mind.
I could I can't remember it may I think it must have been Benny.
Let's say it was Benny and Julianne.
Benny Maslow. They may, I may have got this
wrong in terms of who was dancing with who, but basically
they're dancing, dancing, dancing.
And the size of the dresses, they're enormous on this tiny
stage and we're all trying to avoid each other.
And the choreography is quick and complex.
You know it's. Yeah, yeah, it's Christopher
Hampson. And waltzing.
It's proper choreographic, you know, moments.
But Julianne's dress just wafts some poor musicians sheet music
off his rack. You.
Just see this. Litter of sheet music go up and
explode up, right. It's a live show.
They hit the floor. The musicians like everything's
in a disarray on the floor. Where's the other couples are
still dancing and we so there are moments when we can turn
upstage and Julianne and Benny squat on they're squatted on the
floor scooping these sheets of music.
I mean it was I mean, and we're still having to dance and try
and look beautiful and elegant and serene whilst this is going
on. I mean very, very funny,
amazing. And then the second story.
It was when we took the show to Istanbul.
Oh yeah, that was after I left, definitely.
Yeah, one of two nights we were there.
So the first night we were, we did our technical rehearsal and
then it was time for the performance and the show had a
very position, very high. So there was a big drop into the
auditorium. So you know, the height of the
front of the stage, it was quite high, right.
Anyway, we're dancing, we're dancing, we're dancing.
Complete blackout. Halfway through a number,
complete blackout the theatre lights.
Oh, Jesus. So the orchestra were able to
keep playing because they have their own little mini torch
that's attached to their rack that they, you know, that they
have their St. musicals so they could still see.
And I just remember screaming. I was dancing with Lucy Burns.
I think I just remember screaming waltzing and
thankfully it was probably 1012 seconds of light waltzing in
complete dark with this massive drop at the front of the stage.
But the lights came back up and we were all in perfect plays,
perfect timing where we needed to be.
But it was funny. That's how it.
Was funny and that's how it's done.
So those two Strauss moments kind of came to mind.
I mean, there are many many, many more.
There's many moments I remember Lucy Burns telling me about
before I joined. So for you listeners out there,
I joined Strauss and did I think 2 years and then Damien joined
and we did two years together. Then I left and then Damien did
another two years and now we're not part of it anymore.
But so we both have a lovely relationship to that show and
that production. Like it was fantastic.
Anyway, Lucy Burns told me a story that I think it was
Julianne fell over and and I think it's the deflator mouse
overture that they use quite a lot in the Strauss concept.
She fell over at the beginning of that.
And those dresses so hard to stand up in because they're so
big. I remember Lucy telling me that
she just saw at the corner of her eye like Julianne on the
floor like a cockroach, like keep on trying to stand up, but
like she would step on her own dress again and then fall over
again. And then Lucy not knowing what
to do. So she just literally stepped
over her and kept on. Destiny's Child moment.
Exactly. She looked down at Michelle.
What she's doing. Classic Michelle.
So after Strauss, I moved to Denmark and actually I remember
one of the first shows I did was Tom Eliza, which is Thumbelina.
So a ballet of Thumbelina with costumes by the Queen of
Denmark. And it's all a big Hoo ha, the
Queen of Denmark does the costumes, blah blah blah.
Anyway, so I was, I had two, like in most shows you have two
roles and you have one role you do all the time and one role you
barely ever do. I was on for the role that I
barely ever did. And it was probably, I don't
know, the third time I'd done it, you know, spread out over
five months. So I probably did it once in
April, once in June, and this was now in August.
And it was just, it was in the curtain call.
We had to do like Peaky Arabesque run run until I say
releve 5th double tour and I'm on stage right.
The other guys on stage, they have to have to PK Arabesque on,
shall I say, crossover centre and not I'm not bitching, but
some choreographers forget the rule left in front of right.
And we are taught that at school and it's ingrained into our
blood and into our body. So when a choreographer goes,
oh, at this point stage right goes in front of left it you're
just playing praying for a car crash.
So that's what happened. I'm on stage, right?
I go Piquet arabis. I go to go upstage of the guy
who's on stage left. But now I'm supposed to go
downstage for whatever reason. Yeah, Thank you, Dina Bjorn.
And literally you have these two guys chest bump in the middle of
center stage full force. So do Piquet arabesque run run
go to do an enchil essay and the other guy.
We've both gone into each other full Welt bam, chest pump on
center stage. Look at.
Each other face the audience renovate 5th double.
Tick to the rule, kids. This is why left in front of
right, people left in front of right being in Tivoli.
So our first show, I'm just sure I've spoken about this before,
our first show was always Comedia del Latte pantomime.
I was playing this role. Who is the proposer to
Columbine? Columbine loves Harlequin, but
her dad wants her to marry the rich proposer.
So I'm this Camp Amadeus kind of proposer character.
And we're in this street scene and I'm doing whatever I'm
supposed to do. And I go to go into the house
and the next scene is in the house.
And as I go to go into the house, my shoe falls off.
And literally the I go into the house, my shoe falls off and the
scenery changes. So I can't go back and get my
shoe. I'm like, oh, So we then start
doing the, the scene in the house and I see my shoe on the
other side of the stage. I'm like, I need to get this
bloody shoe. How do I get this shoe?
And then the scene is going on and there's not a moment for me
to get the shoe. I'm like, for fuck's sake, I'm
doing this whole scene with one shoe.
And then at the end of the scene, I'm heading towards my
shoe, but the scene is about to change again, but it's about to
change to the street scene. So I'm like, oh, I have an idea.
So we're then leaving the scene. I let the scene do the scene
change. I come out the front door and
we're on the street and I'm like, oh, that's why I left my
shoe. Activate shoe and we're good to
go. It's literally it's like,
because then in my head I'm saying, but it wouldn't make
sense for me to put my shoe on. I didn't leave my shoe in the
house, I left it on the street. And now we're back in the
street. Voila.
Exactly. So then I remember putting on my
shoe and we're like, Oh my shoe, there it is.
Keep it in, keep it in the show. Somebody finished rotating that
please. The things that go wrong in the
show, I mean, it might sound like just funny little stories
and like you had to be that kind of thing, but they're they're
like some of the best memories. They really are.
Like actually, I don't know, performing at Wembley Arena in
front of millions of people, That's not the memory you
remember. The memory you remember is your
shoe falling off at Tiffany Pantomime Theatre and everybody
laughing and it just being like so much fun and so funny and
those are the memories. Yeah, those are the moments when
things go wrong in that way. You actually can laugh about
them, like because they they're so funny.
I have a similar experience. Again, my my memories are not so
much in chronological order, but one summer I did Blind Bond
opera for the full summer, and there was a bunch of us, maybe
about eight of us, all very, very good friends.
We all knew each other very, very well.
And we were all in both operas. So we all decided to stay up,
spoken about this I think on a podcast.
We all decided to stay up by Glyndebourne for the entire
summer. Very, very nice.
Anyway, one of those operas, the first operative of the evening,
there was a lot of partner work and I remember my partner Joe
how we got attached to to a hook on like a waistcoat or something
on my chest. But we were mid and it was quite
contemporary style choreography actually, like it was more than
just kind of opera on and off. It was a lot, very, very dance
focused. So we were, we were busy and,
and featured. So we really couldn't miss being
in the spotlight if we tried because all, all eyes were on us
at this, this particular moment and the other couples, not just
the two of us. But I could not stop laughing
because she could not get her side of her head away from my
chest. And we were still on stage.
The stage was raped, but you know when you start laughing and
you can, you're crying laughing, but you're still on stage trying
to execute the choreography, It was, I just have such a fond
memory of that moment because we were hysterical.
And then of course your friends around you see what's happening
and they start laughing. So we're all on stage in
hysterics, trying to be professional, you know?
But moments like that are so funny because I think as
dancers, they don't happen very often.
So when they happen, it really does feel dramatic.
And it's live theatre, isn't it? So you, like you said, you have
to rely on your survival instincts and something kicks
in. Sometimes you just get on with
it. You have no recollection of what
you did to fill that space or that partner missing their
entrance or whatever. Set not coming in, whatever it
is, but when when you have those comedic moments where you're
attached to each other's costume and there's nothing you can do
about it. I mean, you've just got to laugh
and just, and just, you know, get on with it and they're the
memories that you remember. You're right.
They are because it's just like exactly what you said, like
you've rehearsed everything for weeks and as dancers and
performers, you are such perfectionist, like everything.
If you're not a dancer or someone who works in the theatre
listening to this, like everything is choreographed and
planned, like moments backstage, like the fact that I run off
stage first you wait for me to pass because I've got a quick
change and then you go and get your prop from the left and then
you come back on and then a technician will work.
Everything is choreographed, even backstage is choreographed.
So it is very rare that things go wrong because you know you
are doing, not to make it sound monotonous, you are doing the
same thing every day. So it's so it is a routine.
Then when something does go wrong, it is just the majority
of the time it is funny because lots of the time it is not
dangerous things that are happening, it is something
silly. Yeah, yeah.
Nobody's at risk. I mean, yeah, yeah.
I remember in Kinky Boots when at the end of What's the song
Land of Lola, we were in this kick line.
So we all have, like, our hands behind each other's backs.
And we did step back on the right leg, pitch forward at the
hip and then everybody stand up, devil pay the leg out.
And I remember Patrick, if you're listening, I remember
Patrick when he put his hand on the lower back, he actually
grabbed my wig as well. When we then, you know, go to
stand up, he's then like Yanks my wig.
And then obviously my wig is super glued to my head.
So my wig doesn't come off, but like it does like pull me
completely back and get whiplash in the back of my neck, like
just pull my wig. There's always moments where
people's costumes or things fall off.
I remember actually in Kinky Boots, Oliver's wig just falling
off in the middle of the number. And then you just see like this
random drag queen running around with the stocking cap on their
head and like a dead cat being in the corner of the stage.
Yeah, and they're distracting. And then it just makes it even
more funny. I'm trying to think, do you
remember in Swan Lake, there was a moment where I think our Act
One costumes, the servant costumes were the white gloves
always set clips onto the epaulettes of our costume, which
meant that I mean, I just have a memory and you feel so naked.
It's a bit like the ACT to no swan eye makeup on.
You feel so naked. Not it.
I do remember coming on and doing like the whole first
section, which is quite gestural with your hands.
And I was like, Oh my God, I don't have my I don't have my
gloves on. And that's all you can think
about. Like.
Naked Mickey Mouse. Everyone's everyone is looking
and laughing at my bare hands. That's what's going.
That was what was going through my mind.
Where the reality is that the cast would have been like he's
forgotten his gloves where, where the audience would
probably wouldn't have noticed. Well, maybe they did, but you
know, but you feel awful. Like how could I forget
something so fundamental? But sometimes, you know, costume
related incidents do happen. You know they do.
I remember we were at the end of Fiddle on the Roof.
And so James and I have just been, by the way, James is
always in these stories. James doesn't fuck up all the
time, guys, just so you know. So I remember James and I have
just been Russian police officers with another actor.
And we go in and tell all the Jews that they need to leave
this town and buckle off. Basically, James and I go
upstairs to then quick change to become one of these Jews that
we've just told to bugger off. And we all sing Anna Tefka at
the end of the show. There's really like beautiful,
depressing, sad song at the end. And we're all stood there
basically, you know, one of those poignant moments where
everyone just stands there and just stares at the audience.
There's like, the blocking is very simple, but like, you know,
powerful and working. And James and I come on and we
join this and we're all stood there.
And then I just look to my left. James still has his Russian
policeman hat on. Oh, my God, We're always like,
very sad that we're having to leave and we're being forced out
of our town and we're going to be wandering Jews again.
And James is actually an undercover police officer who's
just thrown us all out. And I could just see James
because I notice it. And then I kind of gesture to
the guy next to me to be like, look at James, look at James.
And he looks at James. And then people start noticing
James, but James hasn't noticed because James can't see what's
on his own head. And then I get James's
attention, and then he's like, I can see his brain go, oh, my
God, I've got the wrong hat on. Take it off.
But we're Jews. We're not allowed to show our
hair, our hats. Our heads are always covered.
So he's like, oh, but I can't take off my hat because I can't
be a Jew without a hat on. Yeah.
I mean, that is, that is a funny moment and and you've just
reminded me in my very early days in the company of Swan
Lake, we did the big swan dance. And so it was my first season, I
think because we're at the Dominion and Adam Galbraith, if
you're listening, the big swan dance is 4 big Swans, 4 big
Swans featured in this very, very aerobic number.
It's beautiful, it's fantastic, but it's it's very tiring and
difficult. And two Swans come on 1st and
then the following 2 is like in, in a cannon.
So I was one of the 1st 2. And I think from what I
remember, he'd like grabbed my arm, which meant that I couldn't
go when I was going to go, but I obviously had to wipe my arm off
of him. But because it's me, I corpsed
immediately. So I spent the entire big swan
dance giggling all the way through it.
I mean, I was 19 years old, laughing, trying not to laugh,
laughing even more through this very serious dramatic number
towards the end of Act 2. It's just before the coda big
finale finish of Act 2, before the interval.
Anyway, got through it, laughed all the way through it and then
the following day we always came in, had company class, followed
by notes and then ready for the next performance.
I got such a bollocking from Scott Hambler.
May he rest in peace. Quite rightly so.
He was like, what was what was so funny that we needed to see
your teeth all the way through the big swan number.
I don't think I I don't think I grasped up Adam Galbraith.
But it was your fault, Adam. Can you imagine, like, trying to
make this graceful kind of steps, steps, you know, saute,
lunge and yeah, it's supposed to be beautiful.
And I was like A and then yanking my arm off and then just
speaking. So it was worth every giggle.
It never happened again. Do you remember, this is not
something going wrong with this just from my, I now just
remembered there was a rehearsal on stage the day after the
premiere in Sydney and I wasn't there.
And I remember my phone ringing and it was my, it was my dance
captain. Catherine Zeta Jones and I.
Cather Zeta Jones slash Carla Carla Bruni was calling my phone
and I pick it up and I just remember doing this.
Hello. Hello.
It's not getting any better.
Hello. And then hi.
Where are you? Sorry, I'm at, I'm at the hotel.
Why you have a rehearsal now? Me trying not to panic.
Well, hi, babes, you have a rehearsal now?
Yeah, I partied too hard in Sydney.
Hey, I was young and dumb. Also, we would have been jet
lagged. I mean, we literally flew, had a
day and a half off and then went straight into tech runs.
So but I think it's even funnier than that.
I think I was like, okay, yeah, you know, with management, you
know, on the other end of my on the other side of me, Okay,
you're on your way. And you were like, I'll be there
in 5. She went there.
She'll be 15 to 20 minutes because she's clearly stood the
bed. I mean, but I'm sorry, Matthew
Bourne, you have your own self to blame.
Who has an ice sculpture with vodka pouring through it at the
premiere? Come on.
And you expect your dancers to turn up on time the next day?
Absolutely never do not throw a party until you've done the run
of the of the show or the season.
There is a company here that I haven't worked with that this
sounds like a great idea. They have the premiere.
So Thursday, people out of the theatre world, lots of the time
you have a premiere on a Thursday and it's based in the
fact that you have a premiere on a Thursday so that press can be
out for people to buy tickets for the weekend.
Obviously nowadays everything's done straight away on social
media and with the Internet and stuff, but like we've kind of
kept the same thing that you have a premium on a Thursday so
the newspapers with the reviews can be out for the weekend kind
of thing. Anyway, there's a company over
here that does the premiere on a Thursday and then they have no
show Friday. Now.
That is a company I could work for.
I'm sorry, I don't do Fridays wherever you go.
Sorry, have a day off after the premiere.
That's amazing. I mean, not just because of the
alcohol, but also because, you know, the tech weeks and
everything leading up to the premiere, such long weeks and
such long days that everyone's dead.
To give everyone that extra day off is amazing.
Yeah. That is a great idea, although I
suppose it won't happen because that's a loss, isn't it?
They're thinking, well, we could have the show that we could be
making a profit on or making, you know, So, But yeah, in an
ideal world, that would be ideal.
But yeah, there's definitely a lesson to be learnt, which is do
not have your dancers, you know, do not supply your company with
nibbles and alcohol before you finished your final show.
Because of course, you know, you're going to want to enjoy
yourself at the party. And then you have to get up and
it's like a New Year's Day, Johann Strauss, Scala all over
again. It's just not the vibe.
I actually remember a story that a good friend of mine who used
to be a stage manager I worked with told me he walked onto
stage and there was two members of the company stood there
talking to each other 5 minutes before the show.
They were stood there ready on time, fully in costume, chatting
to each other and it was 5 minutes before the show.
And he just stares at them and he's like, they not realise, OK,
I'm just going to go over there. And he walks over there.
He's like, guys just look at each other.
They were both dressed in the same costume for the same role.
Having a full on conversation for 5 minutes before the show
being like guys, have you not noticed one of you is in the
wrong costume because you're not both playing this role tonight?
Double whammy, double special. That's so funny.
I mean, we've all experienced something along the along those
lines, haven't we? Like dancers not turning up like
still in the dressing room, like hearing the show over the tanoi.
I mean, like, oh, it was me that was supposed to be done, not me.
I would never miss an entrance on that one.
This again, I don't know if I have missed an entrance.
I must have done, but I don't remember missing an entrance.
I I've spoken previously on the podcast about being too early
for an entrance. With the door, I love the door
story. But actually the door story that
that's another Queen's ballet. So there was another Queen's
Ballet. All the Queen's ballets are old
hands, Christian old hands, Christian Anderson stories.
And one of them is called Fur Toy, which is the tinderbox.
And basically it's a, before there were matchsticks, there
was like, you have a little box with a Flint and that's how you
would light a match kind of thing.
And it's a story about this magical tinderbox.
So we're doing the premiere. So everybody who's anybody in
Denmark is there, like the Queen of Denmark is there.
All the press are there. The press aren't taking pictures
of us. They're taking pictures of the
Queen watching us, the lead in the show you to Snow if you're
listening. He gets to this magical cave and
he finds this tinderbox and musically there's this brum,
brum, brum. And he strikes it three times.
And on the third time, magical things happen.
And this happens throughout the show.
However, the first time he does it, he goes grung, grung, grung.
And on the third time, it flies out of his hand.
Tivoli is an open air theatre. It flew into the audience.
Oh. My.
Gosh, at the premiere we now do not have a tinderbox.
The name of the show for the rest of the show?
Oh. No, it's.
Just been just like miming lighting matches for the rest of
the show I've. Seen it once, you can imagine
the rest. You get the gist guys.
Man, you've seen it all before. That this thing flying into the
audience like, oh God, now what do we do?
I mean, they're harmless little moments, but they can be very,
very funny. I mean, unless the objects, you
know, the shoe flinging off and hitting somebody in the
orchestra are those moments, I mean, completely out of one's
control. But they can be funny as long as
they're not hurting anybody. You know, those little magic
moments can sometimes make all the difference, do you not
think? Especially if you're in a, in a,
a show that's been running for a while, it just lifts the energy
a little bit more because it, it just kind of excites you in a,
in a, in a, in a cheeky little way to get you through into the
next scene or the next act because it's something just
slightly different. But you know, and again, and,
and I'll finish with this story, live orchestra, you never know
what you're going to get because it's a live usually it's pretty
consistent. But actually there, there are
different variations of, of tempo for sure in a live
production. And I always loved when the
music was too fast. Again, I cannot help people.
I'm a terrible corpse. They're like, I cannot, I'm
like, please don't look at me on stage if something goes wrong
because I cannot keep a straight face and not do it.
And I love those moments where the, you know, the orchestra
were playing way too fast, but you're trying to fit in all the
steps. You know, it was far less
amusing when you know, Big Swan Dance, for example, was too slow
and you're trying to elevate, you know, the three, three
times. Yeah, I remember that happening
in in Paris, that when we arrived, there was a
conversation made between the conductor, who was French, and
the rehearsal director. So the entrance of Swan Lake
needs to be a certain tempo because it's Allegro, it's
jumping in our version of Swan Lake.
And I remember him turning around and saying that's not how
this is supposed to be played. The entrance in Swan Lake is
supposed to go, but in Matt Swan Lake, you're going step onto
Lasse, step Russian Padashar, step onto Lasse.
And if that's slow? Yeah, it's.
Not and you're a signet and you have to do 14 of those.
I mean, you're a big swan and you were swan #14 so you did
half of them and. Then no.
I was also Swans 11 and 13 on occasion, so you know I either
did three or two or one. I was Swan 1:00 and 4:00 so I
did quite a few of those little jumps and when the when the
conductor decided to play it how it was meant to be played.
Yeah, that's, that's that's pretty awful.
Because particularly, Yeah, if you're an earlier number, that
is, it's painful because you think, Oh my God, I've got to
get through all of this. And it's far too slow.
Yeah. But when it was fast, I loved, I
loved. They just made me chuckle, you
know, silly little moments to just give you a bit of life.
And also like, I think, I think conductors don't realize how
much it affects the dancing because even singing in
musicals, like you notice it being a little bit faster
sometimes. You're like, oh, this is a
little bit pasty today, but it's kind of fine or whatever.
But when you've got dance steps going to the rhythm, like, the
slightest deviation in, in speed, in tempo like makes a
huge difference. Oh, it really does.
Especially if you have choreographed something, I don't
know, just, I mean just imagine, imagine it was a ballet class.
You know when you've choreographed something which is
supposed to be fast, so you're going double fappy, double
fappy, double fappy, double fappy and a petty bap 1 semi da
da da da da. Da da.
If then the music is too fast. Yeah.
By the tiniest split second. It.
Gets ridiculous. Yeah, you can't fit, you can't
fit it in. And I my interpretation of that
with a live orchestra is I feel like the conductor is obviously.
Wanted to go home. Feeling, feeling themselves, you
know, within the moment of the music and the energy and the
vibe and the ambience that they're creating, leading, you
know, a beautiful orchestra. And for them, I always feel like
the music comes first and the dance comes second.
Even though everybody's collaborating to create
something beautiful for the stage.
Don't forget the only person that can see the dancers on the
stage is usually the conductor. So he is or she is watching or
they are watching, but if they're feeling what they're
creating in real time, sometimes that's how the tempo can can
shift because you're kind of switched off from what's not
switched off. That's not fair because they're
highly skilled. No, they've, they've become,
they've, they've really got into it.
They haven't switched off, but maybe like they've really got
into the music and they've like fallen deep into the realms of
musicality and that's. How I always kind of find the
reasoning behind those, those, you know, in musical moments
that do shift from time to time, which is natural.
Or sometimes you're doing a double show on a Saturday and
the second show is much faster and you're like, he just wants
to get the train home. He's trying to make his last
train. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or, or in music, you know, I've seen, and I know it sounds like
I'm slightly obsessed, but I'm not.
But I've seen Wicked multiple times in multiple countries.
Thank you, Cynthia. And once I was in, in the US, in
Portland, and it just felt the entire, the pace of the entire
show was so slow, painfully slow.
And then it was just so it was less enjoyable because
everything felt dragged out. And, and actually that's
happened to me once here in Les Mis.
It was so slow. And then it loses the energy and
you think, Oh my God, I've been here 7 hours.
But it's the same with acting like, you know, if there is not
a certain pace to something, then you can, you know, there
needs to be that kind of heartbeat throughout the show to
keep things moving. Otherwise, very easily you can.
Switch off. Yeah.
And interestingly, again, as we deviate into a kind of a
separate conversation, but that also translates as teachers, you
also have to you're not just delivering steps and
collaborating with the the light.
If you have live music, you're lucky enough to have a live
musician, but you also have to keep the pace of the class.
We can save that for another discussion.
But it's it's still, it still translates in the same way,
doesn't it, as the pace of a show.
You need a good. I love that what you said about
a steady heartbeat, you know, keeping, keeping the energy
going, keeping it consistent and keeping the energy with you.
I, I mean, I, I detest teachers, whether it's either at school or
in an open class, no matter what it is when they go off on a
dissertation, like, you know, a full on GCSE presentation for
like 10 minutes, like, oh, come on, get going.
This is not the time and the place for you to go into a whole
discussion about something, whether it is school, whether it
is open class, whatever it is, a dance class needs to keep
moving. We can't sit here.
And because also, I mean just not to go like you said, not to
deviate completely and go into completely another realm or
category, but mainly because even then everyone is going to
get a cold. And if we stand there talking
for ages and go, cool. Right back to double tours.
Yes, I think there has to be a balance and it's really
interesting because I literally last weekend I taught one of my
ballet technical classes again. So it's a 2 1/2 hour ballet
class really focusing on with a technique.
So there has to be an element of explanation, you know, of course
what I need to see or how that person can progress.
But there also has to be a balance of how much time I spend
doing that between each exercise because of course I'm talking
and I'm also then delivering an exercise.
So that's time when the dancer is not active, they are active
and that and that's the point I'm getting to.
They also have to be responsible to keep warm during those
moments of pause. And I think understanding that
if you're watching an exercise or you're listening to a
correction or an explanation, just keep moving.
I'm not talking star dumps, but just roll your ankles a little
bit or so. There has to be a certain level
of responsibility between the the performer, the dancer,
between those moment moments of explanation or even setting the
exercise. But again, I shall finish that
there because that could be a whole other conversation, but
it's it's. But it also harks on to what we
were speaking about the other week when we were talking about
the the dance environment, the studio, the theatre, whatever it
is. That's why there are such strict
rules put in place if you're lucky enough to be on an Equity
contract of temperature, temperature in dance studios and
in theatres. Because you do need to be able
to stop and have a conversation and give a correction and
whatever. And the dancer needs to not get
frostbite in between exercises because it's dangerous.
We are. We are very good at changing
conversation. Well, like most best friends,
we're highly efficient in having multiple conversations at the
same time. And I think our poor listeners,
it's a little bit of a schizophrenic experience because
we dip in and out. But I, I hope that you've all
stayed with us completely. We do try and we try hard to
stick to the subject, but we have to leave some stories for
the upcoming book tour. So on that note, I think let's
call it a day. Thank you all for listening.
Yes, thank you. Of course there has to be
something left for the memoirs and the eulogy.
So thank you all for listening to Drinks at the Bar and hope to
have you all back again next week.
Denise, take care. Love you so much.
You my darling, love you too big kiss and take care if you want
and we will be back soon. I was trying not to give any
more Sound of Music puns better. Bye sweetheart, bye.