Hello and welcome to Drinks at the Bar, a podcast where we
breakthrough the 4th wall and discuss everything about dance
and the theatre industry. My name is Paul James Rooney, a
dancer, choreographer and dance teacher based in Copenhagen, and
I am your host of Drinks at the Bar.
Here we will discuss everything from hearing backstage stories,
touring shenanigans to deep issues like body image,
training, the reality of being a freelance dancer and much more.
Today I have the privilege of being joined by a leading figure
of the Danish ballet world. She was a principal ballerina
with the Royal Danish Ballet and then went on to become Director
of Finnish National Ballet and the Norwegian National Ballet.
She has travelled the world teaching Bonneville repertoire
and keeping it true to its core techniques and storytelling.
She has received the Danish Order of Dannipol, the Finnish
Order of the White Rose, and the Royal Norwegian Order of Merit.
Please welcome the remarkable Dina Bjorn.
Thought I could give you a white wine because I remember from the
days when we were at the Pantomime theatre with the Queen
of Denmark. Nice little glass of wine in a.
Yes, you remember very well this is well, this is one of my sins.
I I don't really like a lot of alcohol, but white wine is my
thing. But I'm also very particular
about which wines I like. Has to be special grapes, but
it's lovely with the white wine. Yes, well.
Cheers and welcome. Thank you.
Well, let's talk about your childhood and you growing up.
You are Danish. I am Danish as well.
I mean, actually, I was going to say as Danish as one can be,
which means I'm a mix of many things back in generations.
Actually on my father's side there, I think there's some
Spanish from some generations back.
My mother's side is really multicultural because her
grandmother was half German and some Russian and she was born in
New York. Oh wow.
New York was just because she comes from my mother's side.
It's a circus family. They were, they were musical
artists, yeah, like 5 generations back and was
travelling with circus and doing musical numbers, clowns and also
more serious, but it was like a group.
So some numbers were with dance and some numbers were with
clowns and they, her grandfather played five different
instruments and wow. So, so that's an interesting
background. And I think maybe when you now
say that I'm travelling so much, I think it is in my blood from
that side completely. It's been really families that
were always on the road. So you've obviously from your
mother's side, you've got the music in your family from, yes,
a young age, and then your father.
Yes, my father is an exception in his family.
Actually he was the very first one who went into theatre and
and dance and it it was a funny coincidence.
He has told me himself how he became a dancer because it was
his older sister. She went to ballroom dancing and
and there in that school there were a lot of girls, but there
were not so many boys who wanted to do ballroom.
So the teacher he hired young boys from the Royal Danish
Ballet School to come once a week to dance with the girls to.
Give some partners yes. So my father's mother saw these
very well behaved boys, yes, and she liked their way, that they
were so nice and they could move nicely and she thought it was
something for her little son to learn so well.
Behaved and. Good posture, yes, all that.
And then she saw there was audition for the Royal Danish
Ballet School. So she took him when he was six
years old. So the audition and he had
never, ever thought about dance or anything.
He has told me that that day there was kind of a little, it's
called in Danish Barnegil's Day. So that was a day where all what
people or whatever they pay, they go to for a good cause for
children. And there was a lot of booze and
entertainments on Kong's Muto. And he wanted to go on the
carousel. That was the only thing.
And then his mother said, oh, if you now go to that audition and
behave nicely, then you go take, go to the carousel.
So, so that's why he went to that audition and he was taken
and he was very happy to have his carousel afterwards.
Good old fashioned bribery, yeah?
But then, I mean, then he started the following this, I
think the audition was in May. And in August he started as a
Royal Danish Ballet school, six years old, and he stayed there
until he was 82. So that was a life with ballet.
OK. So obviously, from a very young
yourself, you're surrounded by music and by ballet.
I mean, my background is full of that.
Of course. My mother was a pianist.
That was after she finished traveling that which she also
did in the beginning with the circus.
Then when the war came, they couldn't travel so much.
So she settled down in Copenhagen and she educated
herself as a concert pianist. Oh, wow.
And then she got to know people from the theatre, actually,
Harold Lander, yes, who used her as a pianist to accompany when
he was travelling in the summer. That was how she met my father
at the theatre, actually. That's how she got into the
ballet world. So she, as a pianist, she was
practicing hours every day. I mean, I heard music all the
time. And of course my father I didn't
see so much because he lived in the morning to the theater and
sometimes it didn't come back until after the performance was
finished in the evening. But of course I heard a lot and
I was taken to see ballet since a young age.
So and I love to see my father on stage already.
Then he started to do more character roles.
That was his his strong side. So I love to see him Doctor
Capellius and the Witch in Lazelfeed and or also the more
funny parts like the school mistress in graduation ball.
He was very good in in female roles also.
And in LA female Gardea is the mother Simone and all these
things. So so I saw ballet since I was
very young. But for me it was like normal
day. I mean there was not something
special about it because I knew it was just their work.
So for a long time I never thought about that I was going
to be a dancer. And my parents are deliberately
didn't bring me to the ballet school when I was seven years
old. They didn't want to decide for
me. And I think they might have had
secret hope that maybe I chose some other profession that would
have been interesting for them, maybe first of all to learn
about all of these years. And then of course, they also
knew the, the heart side, the backside of that whole business.
But of course it, it, I was too influenced by by it.
But I used to say that I started, I became a ballet
dancer because I wanted to become a devil.
And that probably needs a little bit more explanation, because it
has actually to do with that my father became director of the
Pantomimes Theatre in Tivoli. Yes, he was director of the
Royal Danish Ballet. Yes, and pantomime.
Pantomime at the. Same time.
Yes, he was for many years, and he stayed longer with the
Pantomimes Theatre. He was for 12 years in the Royal
Danish Ballet in two separate periods, but I think he was for
30 years. Wow.
And of course, when he started there, we couldn't go on summer
holiday because it's open in the summer.
Yeah. So instead, actually, my mother
insisted we bought it a house with a garden, because before
that we were living in Copenhagen, in Holbasket, the
right around the corner from the holiday.
Living city living. Yeah, but my mother insisted.
Now when we have to stay home in the summer, I need a place with
a garden so at least I can sit in the sun.
I came, of course, staying in the, I came to Tiberli and I saw
the pantomimes and I saw there were little devils in the
pantomimes and I wanted to become one of those.
And I said to my father, I want to be a devil.
And he said, well, we only take kids from the ballet school, not
from the Royal Danish, but from private ballet schools.
But it has to be kids who actually knew a little bit about
ballet and music and could know what, what had to do things
music. And then I wanted to go to
ballet. That's how it started.
OK. Yeah.
And then my father, of course, had ambitions and not ambitions,
but he couldn't bear that I should just go to any ballet
school. He wanted to give me a good
teacher. And at that time there was then
a Latvian prima ballerina. It did Pfeiffer, who had married
a Dane, Mr. Franzen, and she moved to Denmark and she opened
a private ballet school. And my father had heard about
that one. And that means he was a high
quality teacher teaching the Vaganova system.
So he suggested that I took classes there.
And that's was kind of the real start of my becoming a little
ambitious myself about becoming a dancer because she was a very
serious teacher and apparently she saw some talent in me.
So I never went through the Royal Danish Ballet School.
I went to private class with her until I was 16.
And then I came into the Royal Danish Ballet as an aspirant
actually. So I have always in a way been
quite happy about that because I kind of felt that I saw a little
other side of the world before I got into that theatre was even
if it was difficult at that time to come in because everybody was
like a big family. You had grown up together at
that time. There were all, there were no
foreigners in the company, right?
All the dancers were from the Royal Danish Ballet schools.
So they had all been brought up together and to coming from
outside was in the beginning a little bit difficult and and I
even started in the middle of a season.
I was lucky enough that I started together with two others
of ET de Fransen's students. We joined the company in the
middle of a season and it's 4th one of us, Inge Jensen.
She was actually the only one who was accepted because we all
went to audition in the summer of 6063.
Then it was only Inge Jensen who was taken into the company.
So that was actually a little of a disappointment.
So when I didn't pass that audition to become into the
Royal Danish Ballet, what now? Yeah, but then actually I was
getting an offer. I was dancing at the Pantomime
Theatre actually that summer. OK, Then Svenbunk who had been a
dancer for many years at the Pantomime Theatre.
In the winter when the pantomime was closed, he had a little
group that was dancing in cabarets around the world,
right? And he had got an engagement at
BAM Salon or in Stockholm, which is a very famous place.
I mean, it's a restaurant with entertainment and many famous
singers and entertainers come there, and then there's always a
little dance group who come in between the dishes and those
little dancers. And he was supposed to go there
in the winter, and one of the dancers got injured and couldn't
go. OK.
So he asked then me if I would like to join that group.
And of course, I at that time I was only 15, still very young.
Yes, I think it was because of my mother's background as the
circus arts is travelling. And she said, OK, I should have
the chance to go there. So I was three months in
Stockholm living with the two other girls, dancing at Band
Salonga with three shows a night, finishing like 3:00 at
night. Wow.
But it was a it was a very good experience to become
professional in a way. I mean, we danced.
It was like a mambo and a Kang Kang and a polka and different
costumes. And it was all choreographed by
Swan Book. And we were a group of eight
dancers, I think 6:00 or 8:00. So I learned a lot from from
doing that. And I tried to do my ballet
classes every afternoon, which was very lucky because then just
when I had finished that it was about Christmas time, something
happened that it was announced at the Royal Danish Ballet that
they were going to go on a big tour to America, right, A three
months tour. The whole company of dancers
were obliged to go for three months to a the United States
and perform. And the only excuse is if you
got sick or pregnant. So that was where some of the
female dancers decided this might be a good time to make a
family. So suddenly there were people
who were becoming pregnant because then they actually could
be allowed to stay, stay home from a tour like that.
Oh. Very clever and.
And for me, that was my luck because all of a sudden they
needed more female dancers for that tour.
They could already see that in 1965, that was when the tour
should happen. They would not have enough
dancers in for the tour, Female dancers, right?
So then all of us who were auditioning, we were then asked
to join. So me and Vivek and Iben, who
were all auditioning at that time in May, we were then called
and asked, can you start the 1st of January?
Amazing. For me, I was then 18 years old
by then. To go three months cross country
America first, It was like one night stand starting from
Philadelphia and going all the way across, having one week in
San Francisco, one week in Los Angeles.
Yeah. And then three weeks in New
York. In the end, wow, it was amazing.
Yeah. For us who were only 18, it was
great. I think for some of the older
dancers it was a bit hard to be away from family husbands and
wives in Copenhagen for such a long time.
But for me, and also for experience wise, we had a large
repertoire. So we'd done so many different
ballets and of course we young ones.
We were in everything in the quarter ballet and was thrown in
also things we were covering. And then during the tour of
course somebody got a bit sick or got a pain in the foot and
had to rest for a few days. So then we got to do.
So you weren't touring just a small repertoire you did take a
lot of. We had a big repertoire.
We had, yes, I mean of course a lot of Bonneville ballets, yes,
but we also brought Ashton's Romeo and Juliet full length.
We bought Roland, Patisse, Carmen, we don't pick it, Cool
Bears, Miss Julie and Moon, Reindeer.
We did Robbins, Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra that was
called Fanfare in Danish. So it was a really a big
repertoire. Because I mean, nowadays
obviously people go on tour and I don't.
Know maybe one, mostly two programs.
Exactly. We'll take Biadare and a couple
of other things. Exactly.
Now here it was really a Coppelia we brought.
And of course, also Napoli, silfeit, Conservatoriat, all the
Bono Wheel things. So I mean, it was an amazing
chance for young people, first of all, to do so much repertoire
within three months. Yeah, of course.
And then to travel and see America from one end to the
other. Yeah.
We lived in good hotels. I mean, it was not luxury, but
it was like we always had good service.
I mean, Monet's breakfast and eating in restaurants and
parties after each place. There was of course parties.
Of course, all the sponsors made parties.
And so it was. So it was a good start of a
professional life. But it wasn't so long until you
started getting your first soloist featured roles.
Actually, it was also during that tour to America.
Oh wow. Because it ended in New York,
and when we were in New York, Mr. Jerome Robbins came to watch
classes and performances. Oh, wow.
And apparently the change of direction happened also.
My father had said he was ballet director of that tour, and he
said he was going to stop when the tour was finished.
And then he had already passed it on to Flaming Flint.
And Flaming Flint was part out of that tour.
He was dancing as a guest dancer, OK, with us, both he and
Eric Broome. And he was supposed to take
over. And I think he had talked to
Jerome Robbins about getting afternoon of a phone, the
Predator. And it was supposed to be for
his principal couple heading Cronstam and Cheston Simone.
They were supposed to learn it while they were in New York.
But then Jerome Robbins, he also wanted a few other people maybe
to learn it. So he's not the only one.
And that was where he picked me. Wow, and that was of course an
amazing chance to get as a first solo rolls and together with
Neil Scaler to at that time also was already a principal dancer
with the company. So we rehearsed with Jerome
Robbins in New York while we were there, which was amazing.
And then he he didn't come to Copenhagen.
Then he sent the dancer who did originally the part of Francisco
Mansion, who then came to Copenhagen when it then it had
then its premiere in March the following year.
So very quickly I was in there doing my first soleist role.
And how was that working then obviously with an American and
doing some, because obviously you haven't done that much
repertoire. You've only just started with
the world Danish. So how was that working with an
American who will work very differently to how you've been
working with a the Ghana training and with the world
Danish? So how was that suddenly to be
working with? It was, it was a challenge.
Of course it was a challenge. But I mean, I have heard many
stories about Jerome Robbins and I'm sure many of them are true
about how cruel he can be actually and actually really
vicious sometime if he wanted to.
But I must say, he was so nice. But I've been there were of
course, also just four people in the studio.
So it was like he didn't need to perform for anyone or so.
And he was very into, I mean, apparently this paradur was
something that also meant a lot to him.
So he was really very, very nice in giving little details and and
of course it was a lot about the interpretation.
I mean, the actual technical part of it is quite simple in a
way in that ballet. But it's all about how you are
doing. I mean, you have to look at that
mirror all the time. It's about two dances coming
into a studio and they actually never really see each other.
Only they see each other in the mirror.
So the whole dance has to be danced as if you just look at
yourself. And then just at the end,
suddenly the guy is so into the story.
So he kisses a girl on the cheek and that's the moment when she
suddenly realized that actually she is in a room with another
guy. And there is this moment in the
end where she just turns ahead and really looks at him and then
actually withdraws and and leaves the room.
So it's a, there is a lot of acting in it or expression that
has to come with those kind of simple movements.
It is not easy, but kind of simple.
It's not a lot of big jumps or difficult periods.
No, no, but it's the intention. It's very yes.
And a little tricky partnering, of course.
And I had never been partnered either because of course that's
something you don't do when you just go to ballet school.
Oh my. Gosh.
So it was, it was wonderful actually.
And that role, of course, it was very nice because also since it
was a short ballet, it was very practical to put it into many
programs because also if people should change costume from one
ballet to another, then we could put that pattern so they had
time. So in that way we actually got
to do that really many times. And there was actually, I did it
with two partners. It was mostly when there's
Kaylin, but also a young guy on a beck.
He was also taught the piece and he was getting chances so to do
it. So I danced it with two
different partners and for many years, which was nice.
That is what I think. Maybe sometimes I feel a little
sorry for the generation of dancers today because now it
seems like in all companies you do a production and it's like
you do it and then it's out and then it doesn't come back.
Maybe until I mean maybe never comes back.
Or if it comes back, it's not until five years later where
maybe then it will be other people doing the part.
So you don't have the same chance as we had to really to
grow into a role to. Get through the.
Game and the game and through years and that I think is a
little bit of a loss in the way of how you make programming now
I. Mean, we spoke to Thomas
Whitehead from the Royal Ballet and he said the same thing
regarding kind of the the same thing, but a different issue.
Because there's so many casts, yeah, Nowadays there's so many
principal casts and so many soloist cast that if they put on
Swan Lake, for example, he might end up doing his role twice.
Exactly. Because there's another six
people playing Drosselmeyer. Drosselmeyer.
Yeah. What part or whatever it is?
Yeah, No, I think also that is it's it's really sad because I
think that was something where you learned so much of being
able to perform it. I mean, first of all, it's in
performance. You really grow.
I mean, you can rehearse and rehearse and rehearse and it's
good and you learn, you get stronger, you get it into your
body, but it's only in performance you can really start
to make make a roll out. Of it.
I mean, I perform in lots of musicals at the moment and for
me, if anyone asks, oh, should I come see whatever show we're
doing, I always say at least two weeks after the premiere.
Yeah, Come two weeks after the premiere, then we are all the
nerves are gone. So people have relaxed into the
roles. People have started to play with
different ideas and different stories to tell.
Like the secondary characters now are start to have different
storylines developing and all that is is something that you
can't do if you only can perform it twice.
No, so I was, I always say it was a good time that that time
where I was lucky enough to have my dancing career because we had
that opportunity. And I mean, it's also, I always
use my father also as an example because I mean, his example is
very special because he did the role as match.
He started to do it when he was in his 40s, OK.
And he did his last performance when he was 82.
So I mean 40 years with that same role he.
Did that 82 Wow, he. Did his last show was 82?
Yes, this. Was a very physically taxing
role as well. Of course, to go into the
character roles that Bonneville Ballet has a lot of good ones of
it of course prolongs your career of course.
So, but it is very rare that you can go on that long.
And I mean also the development of the role.
I mean, of course, I don't remember so even if I saw him as
a child when he started to do it.
But I can see even from pictures of him doing the role how he has
developed it and how it has changed and how it just got
stronger and stronger and more and more have more and more
little details and facets in the in the interpretation.
So I mean to have that possibility is is amazing.
Do you think that working on the Jerome Robbins piece, do you
think that was maybe one of the first times the acting side of
dancing, then kind of that interest in the acting side
kicked in? Or had there been maybe some, I
mean, already from the devil, maybe, yeah.
I mean, I think for me personally, it's always been the
story side of ballets that I have been interested in.
Also when I came as a child before I joined the Royal Danish
Ballet to see ballets, I I prefer to see ballet with a
story and not the abstract 1 so much.
And the abstract ones can can be very interesting if you want to
look at people's technique because maybe there it's more
the pure dance and that will show how.
But I think I like to be involved in characters, in
persons on stage. And of course, the born of a
repertoire is is so fantastic on that.
I was going to say, is that what straight away has obviously LED
you now to obviously with all your history and teachings and
everything? Yes, with Bonneville, it's the
story that interested you. Yes, definitely that.
And that is real people with emotions and with relations and
with stories. And there are, and with their
little virtues and their little faults, and.
Things, I mean, Bonneville always has everyone.
They are human. Yes, people have problems.
Yeah. And he Bonneville never hid away
from showing what a real person was like.
This real person is gonna cheat on his bride and go with a self.
And all this kind of stuff shows what a natural human being does
is. So.
So for me, that has always been important.
So one can say it was not so alien to me what that Jerome
Robbins wanted expression, right.
But I was not used how to do it. Yeah.
Because of course in the daily training in class it was, there
was no focus on that. Even if I think in a way there
should be a little bit. I mean, presentation of steps is
part of how you also create a role.
It's not just doing a step, but it's how you are doing it and
how many different ways maybe you can do the same step.
Yeah, it's interesting. It might be something to think
about as as a teacher to maybe start giving just a tiny little
story to your on shame on from the corner just to like give a
little light and shade. Cool.
Now we've done it like this. Now let's.
I think it's really a good idea to do because it kind of engage
both body and mind and soul and feelings and everything in in
the dance. And it should be, yeah.
How was it for you stepwise with Bourneville?
Because you didn't have Bourneville schooling.
You joined the world Danish. They'd all gone through their
Bourneville. If you don't know listeners,
there's like a Bourneville weekly class.
There's Tuesdays, pure wet and Wednesdays players and all these
things and the the people in the company would have done this
since the age. Of six done that from the ballet
schools at a time so they have done it all through their
education. Of course, having my first born
of your class when I was 16 years old was of course very
different because although I found little similarities
sometimes to what I had learned from the Veganova.
Yes, I did find similarities, but a lot of things were
different. But I liked it right away.
So that was that was a good thing because either you get
totally scared or you feel you get, oh, this you will never
learn and you maybe even create a kind of a distance to it.
Yeah. Or you fall in love with it
right away and you just want to learn it and to be able to do
it. And it was more, that was how I
felt. This was something I liked
because I've always been more in a Lake Rue dancer than an Adagio
dancer. I love the jumps.
So that was for me. And then I found it so
fascinating that there were all these steps in the in the
school, in the classes that has been kept from born of those
time up till now. And that all of that.
I mean, our teacher came in and say, now we do Monday #13 and
was what's #13 And then realized that each class has about 2425
different exercises. And there was one class for each
day of the week. And I started all that many
wonderful steps. I want to know them all.
So I started to write them down with my own little system that I
had actually copied a bit from my father because my father made
also his own notation with little stick figures.
So he didn't have the like the official notation like finish or
lab annotation, but he made his own and I kind of copied that
and made it into my own with also stick figures and little
descriptions and counts underneath.
And. Notation and I started to notate
all the Bonneville classroom steps and that has of course,
ever since I call it my Bonneville Bible and I still
have that book with all the steps.
Now it has also been Kirsten Rallo later on in the 70s
published a book where she described all the and they also
notated in lab annotation and penis notation.
And now there's also the video that was made in 2005 of all the
all the steps. So now it's all kept for
eternity that way, but at that time it was only existing in
people's heads and memories. Cast it down to the next
generation. And so that's why I felt it was
so important to start to write it down.
So that was kind of the beginning of my special interest
in Bonneville and that has never left me.
But that's interesting that like, you know, starting it so
late. I mean, that's what, because you
didn't grow up with it, obviously, you know, then it's,
oh, what's this new thing? So it makes it exciting.
And then of course, also because it was not just the classes, it
also had a connection with a repertoire, of course.
So then it was Napoli with all the beautiful dances, folk tale,
Kermes, all these conservatoried, yes, flower
festival, Patadur. I mean, you realize that, OK,
you could also use what you learned in those classes on
stage. So there was kind of a nice
connection there. So I read, yeah.
Also you started straight away almost teaching then Bornonville
very early on. Yes, I did start earlier.
I started actually first we're doing little lectures on
Bornonville for Ballet Club and for somewhere.
I came and I was talking about how it is to be a dancer, a
little bit about the daily work and.
Then, like fans of ballet. And for friends of ballet and
the different societies who makes kind of arrangements for
their members. So I came to schools or gym
halls and did this little talk and a little demonstration.
I always put a lot of Bonoville into that also.
So I've showed something. And then in 75, I think that
must have been when I was then asked to teach a battling
seminar, right? So it actually the actual
teaching of Bonoville started in 75 and then I was 28 I guess.
OK, so I had done a lot of Bonoville then, but 75 I started
teaching like officially because I was asked by Bartolin in the
summer seminar and that was there.
I really needed my Bible. So I remember I chose I should
teach the Tuesday class and then I went through all my notes of
the Tuesday class and Hans Breno, who was at that time the
Bonoville teacher, together with Kiss and Rallo at the theatre,
he came, he was really, really nice.
He came and went through all the steps with me at home.
I was living in having together at that time and we had a corner
room where we just took away the furniture and he was dancing
around in our room and showing me all the steps and where all
what was the Apollomang in the head and with his cigar in the
fingers with his little Spanish espadrillas on the feet.
So you couldn't see if it was pointed or flexed.
But he gave me really kind of the the understanding of the
statement. And the little insights and
insider knowledge and yeah. And so that's when he started.
And then the year after we started the Bonneville group,
Frank Anderson and me, which was supposed to be just a one summer
event because we went with the Royal Danish Ballet to America
in 76 again. And the year before, Frank
Anderson had been a Jacob's Pillow and he got the idea he
wanted to bring a group of Danes to Jacob's Pillow.
And when he came back, he told me about it.
And I had at the same time been contacted with a friend of a
friend of the in the ballet club who lived on the West Indy
Island on Saint Croix. And she wanted the Royal Danish
Ballet to come there, but they didn't really have a big theater
for that. So she had also asked if maybe a
small group could come after we had finished.
So Frank and I, we decided, OK, we can put these two products
together. We can make a group together.
And we go to Jaco's Pillow and then we go to Saint Crow and
Saint Thomas. And that was how it started.
And we were only, we were 8 dancers, 4 girls and four boys,
just as colleagues. We, I mean, it was not official.
It was, we were not sent out by the theatre.
No, we did it on our own initiative.
We were renting the costumes from the theatre.
We were making recordings of the music.
That had nothing to do. With that, except that they kind
of helped us a bit when we needed help for costumes and
things like that. And that became the start.
I mean, then that Bonoville group existed for almost 15
years where we every summer went somewhere and it, I mean it kind
of developed. The last years we were 10 or 12
dancers and but the first many years we were only 8 dancers.
And then were you adapting ballets to make them for small?
Yes. We were.
We were only doing Bonoville reversal in the beginning.
Then we added some more also because it became quite hard
since we couldn't really do the real ballet, so we couldn't do
all the mime. So it was kind of all the
dancing only. So I mean, we realized how hard
it is going to. Say, take out mimes out of a
ballet, then suddenly it's just back-to-back steps.
All the steps and since we were only eight, it was a lot of
changing costume and running in again and doing the next reason.
So that was it was great fun and travelled a lot.
It was not only America, it was a lot in America, but also in
Asia. We started also, we we were both
in Korea, in Malaysia, in the Philippines.
So had Borneville been. Had Borneville Ballet been seen
over there before? In these places?
Never. No, and that was also very
interesting because of course it was not what they saw.
I mean, if they saw classical ballet, it was kind of the
Russian classics. It was like Swan Lake and maybe
also Spartacus or something like that.
Big and showy. Yes.
So the Bonoville was very subtle for them and well, I think I'm,
I'm not quite sure if they really liked it, but but we,
some places we were invited back.
We were quite a lot in Hong Kong.
Actually we were several times in Hong Kong when it was still
Hong Kong and not part of China. And that was and they, they
liked us there, but they were probably also a little bit more
used to see. The British.
British and yes, a little bit more variety of ballets, but I
remember it's because in those years in order to just not only
to do Bonneville, we actually got the permission to do Hans
van Manens ballet. That's called septic extra,
which is actually a little bit of a parody on classical ballet.
So it's it's like Jerome Robbins, this mistake walls that
is in his concert ballet, like all these things that you as a
dancer know this is funny and this can happen.
He has also kind of made a ballet of that.
But of course, when we performed it in Asia, they have no
reference to it. So I mean, when we did it in
America, people were laughing hysterically.
When we did it in Asia, it was totally silent.
Nobody was laughing because they didn't quite understand the fun
of it. And then all of a sudden, in the
middle of a very serious ballet, they laughed very loud.
IF2 dancers got really close to each other, they saw that was
very funny. Yeah, and then suddenly they
were laughing at places where we were because.
It was like nervous. Yes, yeah.
So it was interesting also, I mean, to dance with different
audiences. I mean that, I mean, that is one
of the best things about touring is taking things to different
countries and experiencing the cultures.
But like, that's fantastic that you have taken Bonneville to
these countries and now you see hundreds of girls from Japan and
from other Asian countries doing Flower Festival Valley
competition. Exactly.
That's also very interesting. You were actually just talking
about ballet competitions. Yes, yes.
And that's very interesting because I mean, now there are
competitions everywhere. And I mean, it's become like,
like a pandemic. It is, and I think, you know, I
think it's become we spoke about it actually on this podcast.
We spoke about it as I think one of the good things about these
ballot competitions are a way to help people get some money, a
grant to help them with their tuition, with their scholar,
with like a scholarship for some training.
I mean, that's something that's great about all these
competitions. But yes.
But I mean in my time, of course, it was quite new when I
was a young dancer and there were not so many.
I mean there was the one in Varna and the one in Moscow.
They were the two first ones. I went to a ballet competition
in 1968 in Varna and it was only the 3rd or the 4th ballet
competition there. It was only every second year
there. So it had been going on for some
years and it was one of my colleagues at the theatre that
time, Hans Jacob Kolgo, he had just read about that and he had
read that all these Russian stars were going to be there.
So he said, shouldn't we go to that one?
And it's at the Black Sea, so we can be at the beach and then we
can see all the stars and the and we just need to prepare some
predators. So the holiday is more
important. And I had no idea about this.
I said, yes, that sounds like a great idea.
So we did prepare and we did go. And of course when we got there,
I mean, we got a little bit of a shock because then we saw how
all competitors were from either from Russia.
I mean, at that time there was the the Soviet, yes.
And then there was from Romania, Bulgaria, Poland.
And so not very many outside of of that.
No. No, very few.
So we were kind of one of the very few ones that were not.
Right. Yeah, not from this area.
Yeah. And then we saw how they came
with, I mean, they came with coaches and ballet masters and
masters and therapists and I don't know what.
And thank God my father had said yes to join us.
So we had my father with us and thank God because we didn't know
it's first of all, it was a fight to get, I mean, where
could you get rehearsal time? Where could you do a class?
I mean, it was a little bit unorganized at that time and
most people only spoke Russian or Bulgarian.
So we needed interpreters to help us.
And so, so, but I mean, thanks also to my father, it, it went
fine and it was just an amazing experience.
But because the reason I thought about it was that was where we
actually introduced Bonoville in a ballet.
Oh, wow, Because we did Flower Festival and then we were lucky
enough that we got to do it because we had planned it for
the third round, but I would never know.
I mean, we would get that far. Of course, we started with the
first round where we had planned to do Donkey Predator because we
had done that in our partner classes in the afternoon.
So we knew a very nice, good version of it that we had
practiced a lot. So we thought that we could do
because there you had to choose, it was not free, had to choose
between. Oh, there was a.
List. Yeah, there was a list.
So we chose the Don queue. Then the second round, it was
what they call contemporary or modern, yes, which at that time
just meant that it was choreographed later than 1950 or
something, because that round was really interesting from that
point of view. Because all the Russians, they
did another one like just with some other music.
And the choreography was done after 50, but the steps were all
the same. I mean, it all looked like
classical predators, just with different music.
And the choreographer did it in 1955.
But Hansaka and I, we had got special permission from Jerome
Robbins to do afternoon of a phone in the second round, even
if he had never done it. There's Jerome Robbins was also
really nice and said that that was fine, we could do it.
And that was our luck. I mean, in our first round, it
was amazing that we managed because the first thing that
happened was that we have to draw a number in what order it
is. And it was always the women.
If you were a couple, then it was the women who did.
And I draw a number. So I should always dance after a
Galina Rosina, who was actually later on Galina Panova.
And she was a big ballerina. She was 25 years old already,
prima ballerina at Bolshoi, and she was the one who won the gold
medal actually. And I had always to dance after
her so. And I remember when we were
going to do our Don queue, when we're standing there in that
beautiful outdoor stage in Varna where we can only perform in the
evening because it gets too hot in the day.
And we're standing there behind the bushes on the side to wait
for the next entrance. And I saw the one dance before
and they did Corsair. It was just like, I mean, she
was thrown in the air, double fish around.
She does triple for a taste. And I mean, it was like, all
right. And now we're going to come with
a very nice little. Well, we had learned in our
partner class there were no big tricks in that one, but I think
we might have must have been very charming.
So I think we won, got through the first round on our charm.
On the charm. Because we had to compete with
the seniors because we would, we were just too old to be junior.
So that was also so our the one we were with were the ones who
were already stars in the companies.
And then in the second round doing afternoon of a phone, of
course, that was something they had never seen and they were so
breathtaking by it. So I mean, there was no.
Then we went into the third round.
Fantastic. Thank you, Jeremy Robbins.
Yes, definitely. And then we did Flower Festival
in the third round and they never seen that one either.
And they were, I mean you could feel there was this relief
because in the third round then came again, Black Swan.
Don't queue Black Swan junk you Cosair, Cosair Black Swan.
He was like, and then suddenly came Bonoville Flower Festival.
They're totally different atmosphere and mood and steps
and joy and everything. So we actually won bronze medal,
fantastic and the Bonoville got seen for the first time.
And now everybody doing flower festival at this competition.
You were the first. That's amazing.
It's It's fun to think of. Yeah, wow.
So before we move on to your career that went past your
performing career, we have to quickly stop and just still dust
on your dancing career because that was also incredibles.
What are some highlights for you roles that you loved playing?
Well, I think one role that actually became almost a
signature role for me was to do Clara in the Flaming Flint's
version of Nutcracker when it was a role that he, one can say,
created for me. Of course, the role exists.
I mean, not crackers, not Cracker, but he he made a very
nice story about the Danish family.
And it was beyond Bin Blair who did the the decor and costumes.
So I think it was a version that really fitted the company and
also the audience very well. And the role of Clara in his
ballet was in in very many versions.
Of course Clara is in the one who becomes the Sugar plum or
dance the patadur, but not in this version.
I I stayed as Clara as a young Clara do out the ballet.
So I was also in the second act and danced a little solo, but I
never I was not the ballerina. The ballerina was in the sugar
Plum fairy. So and that role of course meant
a lot to me. It was also, it was recorded on
television and in that way, of course you get really known
because that's something people look at when it comes on
television. And of course, to be Nutcracker
and have a role there is good, because that's one thing you
know for sure it's gonna be every season.
Well, yeah. So.
Nutcracker is coming back. Yes.
So that role I danced really very many years.
I was over 30 I think when I did my last Clara so, but I probably
still look like I was only 12, yeah.
Yeah, I had the same problem as well in Peter Bo's Nutcracker.
I think I was 34 when I was playing Fritz, so you know.
So I did some deep delving into you and I've, I know quite a bit
about you, but I didn't realise that you had worked as a
choreographer. Where I currently work now, I
work at the New Theatre. And you worked at the New
Theatre? That is right.
Yeah, that's true. Yes.
That was in a way where I almost started my choreography career,
if you can call it that. I have never considered myself
as choreographer as such, but I have done pieces that I feel
based more on the theatrical thing.
I think I don't feel I'm a choreographer that way, that I
invent fantastic new steps or ways of moving.
You tell stories. I like to tell stories through
dance and that's what I have done quite a lot actually.
And it's true, it almost started there.
The first chance I had to do choreography was actually
Flaming Flint, who gave us young dancers in the company and said
I'm going to make an evening. Anybody who wants to do some
choreographer can you can sign up for it.
You have to work in your free time and then you have to come
and show me the piece and then we will perform it for some
performances. That was on the news.
New scene, the new stage. At that time we were always
performing on both the old stage and the new stage, right?
So that was where I did my first piece of choreography because we
were three who said yes, it was me, It was Hanshaka Kolko, the
guy I went to, Vanaman and Peter Shafus.
The three of us said we would like to do choreography.
And we made an evening where we did a piece, each of us, and it
was shown at the new scene and it actually became such a
success that it got some extra performances.
That was not planned. One could do that that time.
Now one cannot anymore. Nothing that hasn't been planned
five years before. You cannot change.
But there you could just go and say, OK, we can do a few more
shows of this one because people seem to be interested in it.
So that was very nice. But after that it was actually
Frank Schaufus who gave me the next chance because he was then
directing a little company at the New Theatre.
There was a school and also what he called a little company with
dancers, some dancers from the Royal Danish Ballet, some
dancers from actually the pantomime tea identity.
And he did some shows twice a year, I think it was, with
different programs, and he asked me if I would like to do a piece
of choreography for them. So that was my second one.
And that was actually the one that started my collaboration
with the Danish composer who unfortunately just died very
recently, Pianergo, who was, I mean, a very famous composer in
the 70s and 80s, Very modern. Yes, totally modern.
OK. And so far away from Bono, I
would say I had heard something in the radio and I was
fascinated by APC had done for accordion.
Oh, OK, That was called Anatomical Safari.
And it was like a yes, it was. And it was different variations
played by accordion. And it had, I mean, again, I
felt it told so many stories. So it immediately inspired me,
even if it was not the normal 1234123, it was kind of
different and it challenged to do different kind of
choreography. Yes.
So I took that challenge and I've made in that ballet
Anatomical Safari that was performed at the New Ted as my
second piece with dancers. The two, the main couple was
Frank Anderson and Anna Marie Dubdale, who was from the Royal
Theatre. Yes.
And the rest of the group was from the panto Theodore or
freelance dancers who actually was part of his group.
Wow, full circles. Yeah, it's fun, isn't it?
So you start choreographing while you're still a dancer at
the theatre. Yes.
So my first pieces, also, the third one I did was again, it
was a piece for the real repertoire at the Royal Danish
Ballet on a very specific theme. And it was actually, it wasn't
my idea, but I was approached by a designer and a composer who
had this idea about making a ballet about people who had that
sickness, a leper. Oh yeah, A.
Leprosy. A leprosy, yes, because he had
read the one who got the idea that they had to have some
wooden things on them so they could make a noise when they
came to villages, so people could go and hide before they
came, not to be infected by them.
And that had inspired A musician who was was percussionist, so he
thought he could compose a fantastic piece using the
percussion instruments to kind of illustrate this kind of
different sounds and rhythm when they were knocking.
And I was presented to that idea and I took it also as a
challenge. So my third ballet was actually
this ballet that was then done in the Royal Danish Ballet
repertoire. And now I have to remember, what
was the title? Yes, it was called in Danish
Summer Fool, a mask and the butterfly mask, because it was
about among those lippers, there was a young girl who was also
sick. And she covered her face with a
beautiful mask that had the shape of a butterfly because her
face was probably, I mean, scarred and because of the
sickness. And she had that mask.
And then a young boy of the village, of course, falls in
love with her. And so that that was a little,
that was a story. It was a story, managed to put
the story in there. So that was my third ballet that
I did for the Royal Danish Ballet.
Wow. So already are you thinking when
I retire from performing I want to choreograph or where's your
mind at this point? You know, this is really, I have
thought about it sometime because I know how hard it is
for many people that transition from being an active dancer on
stage and all of a sudden it's all finished and what to do
next. And I have been so lucky that I
have somehow missed that and that crisis.
Yes, because I think very early on when I was dancing, I already
started to do other things. Yes, I was teaching.
I was interested in doing Bornoville also, not only
dancing it myself, but also talking about Bornoville,
teaching other people the Bornoville.
I was interested in the choreography through that
connection with Piano Go. I actually for many years worked
very closely with him and did a lot of pieces of choreography to
his music, ending with actually choreography the two of his big
operas. So all that I did also at the
same time when I was still dancing.
So somehow the transition was gradual.
And then I think when Fleming, when Henning Cronstam finished
as a ballet director, actually I together with Johnny Eliasen and
Frank Anderson, we said there must be somebody here from the
Royal Danish Ballet who wants to take over.
So the three of us, we were all applying for the job is becoming
ballet director after after hitting drone stem.
And that was a very interesting also because you had to stand in
front of all your colleagues and tell what would be your plans
and that they could ask you questions and.
All the other dancers. All yes, I mean the three of us.
We were asked then to come in front of the dancers and tell
them if we become director, what would we do and what were our
visions and plans? And so it was quite challenging.
And it ended, of course, it that ended with that.
Frank got the job. I mean, it first was actually
Tony Lander got the job, but then she had to say no because
she already knew by then that she was sick and couldn't say
yes. And then Frank was the next on
the list. So Frank got the job and that
was a change of course also for me.
Frank and I have always been very close.
I mean actually Frank had his almost his debut together with
me in Flower Festival. But a program in London at BBC,
some program that was called Opportunity Knox.
Yes, I've heard. Of yes, and we went there to do
flower festival and I don't ask me why they we were going to do
that. I just I just know that I was
contacted and it it was all planned and I should come with a
partner to do flower festival at that in that program.
And I asked Frank, who at that time, I mean he's quite younger
than me, so he was just become first year dancer, I think.
And I said, do you want to go with me to do Flower festival
in? Yes.
So we went to London together and we danced in this program
opportunity Knox. And since then, of course, we
have always been very close and we have danced a lot together.
We did the Bonoville group together for many years.
Then it was kind of AI got to what you call it a skill by
like. There was a fork in the.
Room yes, when he became director his two first season he
still had kiss Moralo as his associate director and he asked
me if I would then when she finished if I would take that
job. And there I of course I had to
choose because already at that time I had started to do a lot
of things around Peter Schaufus had asked me to come and teach
in. He was at that time with the
English. I mean that time was still
Festival Ballet and it was yeah and the school there and I had
helped him with some Bonneville productions, different place,
Italy, Canada. So I all the time wanted to do
that too, and I wanted maybe then to have the freedom to be
able to say yes to that and I knew to be the associate
director then. You're locked.
You are there and that will be your job.
So it ended with that. That was in a way where I
decided, OK, now when I finish dancing, I'm going to be
freelance and I'm going to do all these travel around and
stage Bonneville. Then it went totally different
because I had hardly started that.
Then I was asked to become director.
In no way. That was at that point you then
stopped performing and that. Yeah.
Well, I mean, there were some years in between Frank became
director, I think 85 or 86. And I had those years to think
about what to do. And also because at that time
the pension age of the dancers were 46, which was a problem of
course, in a way also a problem for the ballet director because
he had so many dancers who actually were just kind of
waiting to becomes 46 to get their full pension.
But it was not everything they could be used in anymore for
various reasons. Some already had some problems
physically and all this. So that was a problem.
And I wanted actually to stop when I was 38.
So I was asking. But at that time it was really
very tough because if I decided to stop, I would not get my
pension. I would get nothing until I was
67. So that was something thing.
I mean, I was at that time so determined.
So I was saying, okay, I don't care.
I I want to stop now. I want to do my thing.
So okay, this pension, I'm really happy that it didn't go
that way. Now when I look back, because
the director of the theater, Henrik Bearingly spare at that
time, he said to me, no, you wait, you take a leave of
absence, OK, for those two years.
I mean, you don't get the functions up spying.
So it'll be leave of absence without anything.
So like you have stopped when you were 38, but you are still
in the system. We are working very hard now to
get the pension age down to 40. We think it will happen in
within the next two years. So then when you are 40, you can
finish and you can get your pension.
And that's how it then went. So I went on two years leave of
absence and that was where I started to stage so feed many
places I was in Boston so. You just.
So you just stopped because you want?
I wanted to do the other thing. Yes, it wasn't because no, there
was pain or no, no, it was just because you, you there was an
interest. Yeah.
And I found it so fascinating and so interesting to stage the
Bonneville Ballet. Yeah.
And then I was asked, I did it in Munich for the Bavarian State
Ballet, and I did it in Boston for Boston Ballet.
And it was great. And that was during those two
years when I had leave of absence and then when I became
40, Yep. And then I could go off, go on
pensions. And that same year I came to
Oslo to stay still feed, and they asked me then if I wanted
to take over the company. So there was my freedom.
Incredible. But I mean, it was of course
that I was asked just to do it for one year because they, the
director who was there at that time, had left.
Before time and that contract was still somebody had to fill
out that contract for that year, I mean like a replacement, what
you call it? Yeah.
And then of course, they need to find who is going to take over.
For real until the. Contract, it was like an an
interim kind of. So I thought, OK, one year and
the dancers want me and that's a good starting point.
So let me just go one year, and that year became 12 years.
So that's how it can go. So there was not so much of the
freedom now. I mean, after 12 years
directorship in Norway and seven years in Finland after that, now
I have finally my freedom and I'm using it.
So I'm still very happy to travel to states, lesser feed to
do seminars. So it's never too late.
But were you director of what? There was a cross?
Am I not, am I not right in thinking that there was a
crossover, that you were director of Finland and Norway
at the same time? Yes.
How is that possible? Well, yes, you can ask.
I don't know either how that was possible, but I think it was
possible because somehow they really wanted me in Finland and
I'd found out I was the right one for the for that position at
that time. And at the same time my contract
had not finished because they contacted me.
It, I mean, the two director jobs I've had, I've never
applied for them. I have been asked, which is very
nice of course. Flattering, yeah.
So the first one when I was still in Oslo, I knew then that
I would finish because after the third renewal over how much it
was, I said this is now the end. So now we have to find one after
when I finish that maybe people have heard because then they
needed one in Finland. So I was contacted by people in
Finland to here if I was interested then because they had
heard I was going to stop. And then I went and had
interviews and they were still interested.
And I said very clearly, but I'm not free until there is a whole
more year. And then they accepted that I
could be both place. And then it, it was difficult.
And when I look back at it now, I think it was not the best
start for me or for the dancers or for everyone in Finland that
I was so much away in the beginning.
I had to go back and forth and I had a ballet master who was then
engaged by me and who took care of the daily work.
But it's not the same. Of course, everybody wants the
director to. To see the face of someone.
So I think it put too much pressure also on the ballet
master and on the people in the in the staff.
But I finished a little earlier because then they had decided in
Oslo who was going to be the new director, which was Espen
Gillian, and he was free to come.
So instead of going all the way to the end of the season, I
think we kind of by the 1st of April or so that season, then he
took over and I could go to Finland and be there full time.
So, but it was, it was amazing that it was possible to do.
And they, they never complained. But I mean, not in Finland.
I think maybe in Oslo. It was more difficult in Oslo in
many ways, because I know it myself.
I mean, the situation is if you know the one whose director is
leaving and you already know who's going to be the new one.
Yeah, actually all the dancers are waiting for the new one.
I mean, of course, yes, you just, you are just there.
But I mean, they are not going to come come to you anymore.
They're not gonna, they are gonna waiting for the new one to
come. So I felt myself that okay, it's
better as soon as Espen can then take over.
It's better because he's the one they want to relate to now.
Not to me anymore. Yeah, of course.
So. You've done so many different
parts of the dance world with dancing.
We're teaching Bourneville, with giving seminars on Bourneville,
with being a director, with being a choreographer.
What did you really love about being Director of Accompanying?
The work with the dancers. Unfortunately, as a director, I
realized and more and more that you have to go to so many
meetings that you get less and less contact with where you
really want to be. Because the work with the
dancers, of course, not only the direct, but actually to see them
develop in roles, to know that maybe this ballet will be very
good for this person. And then see how I mean, this, I
think was very exciting. And the contact with the
audience, I must say, I've always loved to be in contact
with the audience. As you can hear, I like to talk,
so doing lectures has always been part of what I like to do.
And when I was in Oslo I already started something that is now a
fashion everywhere. Before each performance I made
an intro talk. One hour before I was sitting in
the little foyer and everyone who wanted could just come in
and sit and listen. A nice book for half an hour
about the evenings program and a little background story and who
the dancers were and how the work is a dancer and all this.
And I did it for every performance in all the 12 years.
Wow. And I love that and I've got so
many. I got so much positive feedback
also from audience who still still now when I come and visit
in new Opera House in Oslo, some come and say, I still remember
these, these talks before the IT was so good.
I was to so many of them and. What is it that you like it?
What is this that you like about the talking?
Is it sharing knowledge or? I think it's sharing knowledge
and the feeling that you actually tell the people you
talk to something that they didn't know and they hadn't.
I mean, they suddenly some you open up some door that and they
are fascinated by it. And sometimes they could ask a
lot of questions. That was nice.
Sometimes they didn't say a word.
I mean, it was very different also, and I love that.
I mean, sometimes there was a lot of children and then you
have to adapt to that and sometimes maybe they said only
like 5-6 people there and I, I like that very much.
So I could not do it the same way in Finland because of the
language. So that was something I missed
in Finland in a way to have that direct contact with the
audience. It always had to be translated
and OK, it could be done in English, but it was still not
the same. So that is one part where I felt
is nice. Of course, what I like as a
director is that you can decide and people and people listen to
you. Because that was the first thing
when I was not director anymore. I realized, okay, now they
actually don't listen to me anymore.
And they don't, they don't have to.
So I thought that was very nice. No one listens to me.
But then of course there is also this, the hard things about
being director, because you have so much responsibility for so
many people's life and future. And you know already from the
beginning that you will have to make some people disappointed,
some people angry, some people really sad, some.
I mean, all this I've always found was really hard, of
course, to deal with. Of course, even if you know
that, that's part of the job and IT.
Doesn't change the fact that you're because what's different
about ballet dancing is that you're not just saying, oh,
sorry, you don't have a job anymore.
It's also, you know, it's people's passion, it's their
life. It's a life.
I mean that that's no, it's, it's so much more than just a
job. So yeah, that's that.
I can imagine what must be so incredibly difficult.
So that that's really difficult. I think, I must say I'm happy
now that I'm not director anymore.
And I don't think it's becoming easier to be director nowadays.
I mean, it's also harder, I think to be director who says
that I'm the one who decides because you don't anymore.
I mean, now there are so many fractions and so many people
that has to agree and has to be discussed.
With and it has to, yes. And it has to be evaluated and
has to be. So in the end, I think being a
director today is not one who can just decide what is
happening. So I was more happy because
still in my time I think I could make many decisions.
And of course it was always most fun in the first years of your
directorship. Yeah, because there they listen
more to you than the later years.
One of my big things that I have to mention always because in no
in Oslo that we did a very big tour in the north of Norway.
Oh wow. Which was an amazing event
because we were took the whole company away from Oslo for 1 1/2
months I think it was and visiting all small cities that
was north of Trondheim. So everything above the Arctic
Circle. Yes, it was all the North Norway
who very seldom sees ballet, of course, and who also very seldom
goes down to Oslo to see ballet. So that was a very special thing
and we knew already from beforehand it's not going to be
easy because they will not have that relation to ballet that
they will necessarily come running to see the the National
Ballet from Oslo. So we had to find a way how to
get an audience and what we did, which I still think was really
clever, but it was also, I mean, very demanding.
In each city we visited 18 cities.
In each cities we had a world premiere that was done
especially for that city in collaboration with someone from
the city. It could be either their local
band, their local ballet school, their local singer who was a
chorus or we all the places we asked what what is your?
Who do you have here that you are very proud of?
Is that's. A great idea.
And then we collaborated with them.
I mean, it was world premieres it they were only like 1012
minutes long. Yeah, But we had full houses
everywhere because of course they came to see there.
There was an interest. There was, and then they got a
little bit of the ballet also, and yeah, liked it or didn't
like it or whatever, but we got an audience and it was amazing.
I mean that collaboration. That, of course, was a.
Big, big, big preparation period to do all these different
places. And I remember because I
choreographed three of them. One of them was we opened in
Kautukaino, which is a big Sami town in the north of Norway.
OK, where I mean actually in the audience they were more
colourful dress than we were on stage.
They were in their wonderful Sammy costumes, yes.
And they had a chorus that was very famous.
They do this yoke. It's a special way of singing
like yoke. It's a little bit like.
Also you have in Tyrolean that you.
Oh, like yodeling? Like yodeling?
Yes, it's a kind of yodeling. It is called yoke, and they have
a whole chorus who does yoke. So I should choreograph to one
piece that that chorus used to sing.
So I got it on a videotape, on a, on a cassette tape.
So I had that and it was not easy, but I mean, we worked on
it and it was a big group piece because it should be the opening
piece when we were in Kotokano. So it was almost the whole
company dancing in it. So we choreographed it was
great. And then of course we came to
Kaoto Kaino. And then you should have the
first rehearsal together with because the chorus should sing
live. And then we realized that
actually it's a kind of improvisation anyway.
Oh my. I mean, not totally, but still
it can vary so much. So when we heard it like.
This is not what we created. And recognize what's this and
and that was and it was kind of two days before the premiere.
So so there were a lot of amazing experience on that tour,
I must say. Incredible it.
Was one of the things that I'm very proud of that we did during
my time. And it was some of my first
years. Yeah.
Because of course there was also a little bit of resistance also
among the dancers, some dancers. Is that artistic?
We're going to dance. I mean some place we dance in a
little gym hall and we danced in in a sila tank like where they
do the herrings. Oh, OK, yeah.
All kind of different places. We were dancing and then is that
artistic? Well, what is artistic?
You are artists, what you do, you are sharing your artistry
with people who maybe would never have experienced it.
So we do it in little odd places and maybe you can't do your
triple period there, but. You can tell your story.
Yes, exactly. Wow, that's fantastic.
So you have gone around the world staging Silfeed to many,
many, many, many, many, many, many companies.
Do you think there is a specific thing that you always have to
say to every company? Is there some something that the
majority of companies don't do in other performances that they
need to do when they then start doing a Bourneville Ballet?
Yes. I mean, of course, dance wise,
there's always a lot of things that you have to say because of
the Bonneville style. It's so much more fluid.
I mean, to connect the steps instead of separate them because
many dancers today are so used to kind of in a way separate.
You show us jump instead of making it more sentence, a whole
sentence. And that I think, but it's
something that everybody can get quite quickly if they know what
to work on. What is always, no matter where
I state it's the most difficult is the pantomime.
I mean the conversations with the mime, the gestures, the
gestures and the way, I mean, just the way how you are
standing on your leg when you do pantomime, that it should not be
an artist artificial ballet position.
You should actually stand more natural on your legs.
It's. Not a Porter bra.
No, and every gesture has a meaning and you have to
accentuate. It cannot just be floating
movements with a hand. You have to know exactly what
are the stops of the movement with a little accentuation and
where you are looking. Yes, because that is sometime
also because when dancers get a little embarrassed about the
pantomime because they're not used to it, they tend to go very
much into themselves and they look down into the floor, Right.
And to force them to look to each other, to use the eyes also
out to the audience when you mime that this is something that
I always have to use sometime, no matter where.
And I mean, especially of course, in Asia, because there
is a culture where you probably you don't really look in the
eyes. That's embarrassing.
And it's not, it's not polite. So they have to, in a way, cross
some borders in themselves to be able to do it.
And one has to be very sensitive also in the way you have to
teach it. Because I understand that this
is something that actually is quite.
Very is not in their culture at all.
So, so those things, I mean, my experience is it takes much
longer to stage the mime scenes and the action scenes than the
real dance scenes. And that's interesting.
But that's also what I find is the exciting thing about staging
these ballets. Yeah.
Because in the end, every good dancer can do the steps.
I mean they are not that difficult that not a good dancer
in good shape with a good classical back back.
Can do the. Yeah, they can do it, but the
MIME is something different. It's something that I loved
doing at the pantomime and Tivoli learning all these old
comedy Dell latte pantomimes and then also doing seal feed with
Peter Bobendixon, yes, because he was great at teaching the
mimes yes and that whole exactly what you're saying looking in
the eye. I think lots of dancers
listening out there. So listen up.
Lots of dancers out there do think that it's part of the
choreography and it's not it's we've now stopped dancing.
We're now having a conversation and you have to think about your
mimes being your words. And so you wouldn't talk to
someone and not look at them. You would you would look them in
the eye and also then you would listen to what they're saying
back to you. Exactly.
I mean, that's another very common fault to want to do it
too fast not to let the person finish whatever is.
And then you answer like you should do in real life, of
course. But it's interesting that it's
I, I see very often that you just want to get over over with
it. It feels like.
So you, the other person has not even finished his last gesture
or her last gesture. And then you want to answer
before you have heard actually what was the question.
Because they want to get on with the steps?
Yes, Because they feel comfortable there.
So that is something, and I mean, my latest experience,
which was in Philadelphia, where I was just in April, it was
really, really nice because the dancers actually thought it was
a good challenge for them. They were not against it.
They also admitted that this was different for them.
And they, in the beginning, they didn't feel comfortable about
it. Yeah.
But then I think and then you have to kind of create an
atmosphere that they start to feel more comfortable,
comfortable and dare to to go for it.
Think it we got a good result there.
But you need time and it's not always you have time when you
are just staging a ballet. You have just those weeks, Yes.
And sometimes it's very nice if it's possible to come on
beforehand for a short period, maybe to do a few things to.
Give to. Give the dancers idea about what
is it you're gonna and then come back and then they are already
kind of prepared on a little higher level.
And then if you just get it all on your head, steps and music
and character and I'm and you have to perform it in three
weeks from now. Yeah, because, you know,
nowadays when when ballet companies are doing a Jerome
Robbins piece, a Bonneville piece, a Balanchine piece, a way
McGregor piece, these people are coming in to stage or
choreograph a ballet. And all of the the genres and
the styles and techniques are completely different.
And there's no time to focus in on, OK, what is this?
The McGregor technique is just learn the steps, learn the show,
perform. And they're all very, very, very
different. Yes, definitely.
And of course, many choreographers start now, I
think to demand to have a little time to do workshop with the
dance before. Yeah, and I understand, I think
exactly as you say, because now there's so many different styles
and ways of performing within what we call ballet.
Yes. Yeah, because back in the, I
mean, way back in the day, usually the majority of your
repertoire was done, was choreographed maybe by the
director. Yes, like way back when.
Yeah, that's right. That's not where we are
nowadays. And of course, already in my
time it started because, I mean with flaming Flint, of course we
got a lot of flaming Flint ballets, but we also got a lot
of choreographers from abroad coming, having very different
styles and different ways of working.
And it was exciting. So we got to know each other.
Yes. So now we're finally there.
We got to know each other in Tivoli at the Pantomime Theatre,
as it was Tivoli Ballet Theatre as it is now known.
Because you were choreographing ballets at the theatre and you
had already done, you had done 2 ballets by that.
You had done 2 ballets before I came.
Yes, that's right. I think we've done one that
hasn't been done since its creation.
That was called Love in the Dust Spin.
Yes, that was a combination of three hands.
Christian Anderson. Yes, fairy tales.
And then we have done some Belina.
Thumbelina. Yeah, because I came the second
year of Thumbelina. Right.
Yeah. Yes.
So firstly, how did you get that job?
Yeah, well, it was, it came down from, I mean it, it was really
also for me a big surprise. I was in Oslo and I was called
by last lips to was by the CEO of the director of the whole
Tivoli Garden and he asked me if I would be interested in, I mean
he knew my love for the pantomime theatre.
As I said, I was there from a child when my father was
director. I feel a very close connection
to the theatre. But then of course having been
in Norway already then for quite many years, because we are now
in year 2000, I think I was almost finished with my period
in Norway, but I was still there as director.
And he asked would you be interested in doing a ballet for
Tiwari in 2001? Yes.
Could I? Yes, of course, but what?
What? Yes.
Well, he says it's kind of a there is a theme and it has to
be enhanced Christian Anderson story.
Well, but that sounds very good to have half hour ballet story.
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. And then he said and then we
have already chosen the designer.
Okay, said well, but I mean, I guess I can work with anyone, so
that's interesting. Who is that?
Well, that's Queen Margaret of Denmark.
A little bit of silence in the other end of the phone there
when you said that, because I hadn't really expected that.
No, of course I knew that by then she had already done a
design for a folk tale. At the Royal Danish, yes.
At the Royal Danish and I knew that Frank Anderson had been
working with her, so it was not a new thing for me to know that
she was actually doing an interesting doing design.
And she was also very all Danish people knew that she she did.
She was interested in art and painted, and everybody knew she
was artistic. But to know then that she was
the one that I was going to work with was just a little surprise.
But of course I said yes, yes, of course.
I mean, it didn't make it less interesting.
And I must say I was really very, very curious how that
first of course thing then would be.
Because then of course, when I had said, yes, I'm interested,
of course we should bring the parts partners together.
So the. Queen was going to be brought
together and it was not actually yet decided which hands
Christian Andersen, but Queen Margaret really wanted to do the
one about the one that's called Cast the Falcon, which is about
the the spinning. The spinning top in the ball.
That was the story that she wanted.
So we met there and I had been, I had already read the story.
And I said, well, it's a wonderful story, but there are
only two characters in it. And I mean, there are 16 dancers
at the Pantomimes Theatre, so I think we need some more
characters. Yeah.
So I already had an idea about then maybe one could combine
more stories. Yeah, some short stories too.
But that I, of course, I had to present to the Queen.
So and I must say, from the first moment it was amazing.
Yeah, to work with her because she was totally humble as a as a
designer. I mean, not coming in as I'm the
queen and I decide not at all and full of ideas, which was
always, I mean then of course it became 5 ballets through the
time. What I found was one of the most
wonderful things was always the process before when we had those
meetings together before to talk about how are we going to do
this? How many sceneries do we need?
How could it change? How can we solve the thing with
the big fish in the Yeah, and I mean all these kind of thing.
How can we create that? It looks like some bolini is
flying with a with a bird and and she always had wonderful
ideas. And immediately I mean that what
I loved then when she got an idea then oh, she find a napkin
or something on there and started to Draw Something down
on what she could find on the table or demonstrate.
And it was one could discuss with her.
She was not so fond in the beginning of my idea with
combining. That was a little resistance I
felt, because she was so focused on.
She wanted this. That was a fairy tale she
wanted. So then I wrote to her then.
I mean, she was not against, but I could feel she was not
convinced. And she was very polite.
Yeah. Of course.
Yeah. So then I had promised I would
write to her, and then I made the kind of a synopsis where I
had combined these three fairy tales, and then she loved it.
Perfect. And I think especially the one
because one of them, which I think is the one with a needle,
it has the five fingers. Yes.
And that idea with the five fingers she really loved.
Yeah. And she could see how she could
make that really funny with costumes and.
Yeah, make. The five fingers.
Different personalities. 5 different personalities and ways
of that dancing. So that was the start.
And then I mean from there it was just really fun every time.
And I love these years. And then the first one was it
was lumpy music that James Praise was asked to arrange,
right? But already from the second one
from Belina, he was asked to compose.
So then we became that little team with the Queen and James
Praise as a composer and then me as a choreographer.
That has been so much fun. And then I mean to work at that
theatre is for me something special.
The format of the theatre, the thing that is still like an old
fashioned theatre at everything, Yes.
Just having the smell. I mean, it's everything is like
theatre should be. Yes.
It's such a wonderful place combined with all my memories
since I danced there as a child. I was the devil.
I became the devil. I even advanced to become an
Angel or a fair in the fairy tableau.
In the end, I danced there as a dancer for some seasons.
I guessed it there when I danced at the Royal Danish Ballet.
And I actually choreographed one ballet there before the Hans
Christian end. Oh, really?
I did. That was just.
Oh, which, yeah, we were in the 80s, Yes, 82, I think.
OK, so I have a long history with the Pantomime Theatre.
And then it was lovely then to be back in there in 2001 one and
then the next one, 2005, 2007, 2009 and 2013.
Yeah. I mean, I was lucky enough to to
come in and be part of all of them.
Yes, fantastic to work with you. But also, I mean, for me as a
non Danish person, obviously I respect that she is the queen of
Denmark, but I haven't grown up with her being my queen.
So I have a very different relationship to yourself.
But also like the other dancers in the company who it is, their
queen sat right there doing the costumes.
It would be like, you know, Queen Elizabeth doing the
costumes like it's I obviously there was a a huge respect, but
it was very different for me. So it's interesting to hear from
you who had to work that close with her.
Must be must have been at the beginning.
Very nerve wracking. Yeah, it was nerve wracking for
the first meeting, but thanks to her way of being, it stopped
being nerve wracking it it started to be something that I
was always looking forward to. And of course you always feel
you have to behave in a certain way, not to cross any borders of
how how you can behave with a queen.
I mean the thing about that you have to say in Danish you have
to say D yes and not. Do yes, there's like a polite
way of saying you. Yes, you don't you don't need to
say your Majesty or the Queen all the time.
I mean, I was told from the beginning, you just if you have
said it once, then after that you can just say D all the time
and and she also says D back. So it's not that she says do to
you. No, no, So she keeps also that
kind of respect and so and then sometime with we both noticed
without commenting on it when we get really into discussions that
sometimes comes a little do both from me and from her and we just
make us if we don't hear it. I, I remember one of the, one of
the biggest things I remember when I started is that we were
told by Lars Lips that when she is here, she is your designer.
She, and that's from herself. She did not want to be the queen
when she was in the room. She wanted to be a designer.
So I'm going to come in, I'm going to sit here.
And you know, when we were do our costume parades, for
example, when we're all the costumes are ready for the first
time, we all put them on and we all stand on stage 1 by 1.
You know, she'd just be sat there and sat next to you and
all relaxed and we're all in the same room.
And the only way an outsider would may be able to tell that
she was the queen was there would be 1 bodyguard right in
the corner somewhere. I don't know if that bodyguard
could do anything. So he was so far away, and not
really. Right.
No, it's true. I mean, one forget right away
also because of the way that she herself was behaving.
I mean, it was always great fun. And I mean, one thing that I
will never forget in connection with my work with her was I
think it was when we were trying to find out what should be the
third ballet before we had decided it was going to be the
tinderbox. I think then I was invited to
lunch at the Amelian Bowl. At the palace.
At the palace, because we should discuss which.
Brainstorm. Should be and that was, I mean,
amazing because it was only me. So I was sitting and then I
mean, the table was enormous, but I mean, we were not sitting
at each end. We were actually sitting like at
the one corner of it. And then I'm being served.
So and then after that going into the library and then she
read the story of Tinderbox for me.
And she did it lovely because I mean, she was really
impersonating all the different voices.
The witch, there was all these characters and I was sitting,
dancing. My God, here I sit and the Queen
of Denmark is reading the same for me.
This is. The Queen of Denmark, read your
bedtime story. Yeah, and it was a lovely
experience. And then I think that was when
we decided that it should be that that story.
Wow. And the other wonderful in
memory. I mean, there's so many
wonderful memories because I love her humor.
She has a very special humor that has to do with words, how
she says things. I mean, I love it.
So I could just listen to her for hours.
But I remember because then I was very honored by when I
finished in Finland, I got then rider course.
Yes, you and normally. You only get that if you have
been in Denmark soon so many years and you get it.
But I got it in Finland when I finished there.
So of course then I, I should go like everybody will do when you
go and say thank you. So you are kind of signing up to
go on audience to say thank you for it.
So I was also there and I mean like everybody should and
waiting and we were many people so waiting for my, my time.
And then the moment I came in say, ah, I said, could I see
you? Are you free tonight?
Can you come? Because I have some hats or
something. I I need to because we were in
the process of the of the next production and I said, well,
that's amazing. I mean, I think it's not so
often you get that kind of invitation when you come to an
audience. And then actually I came to her
because she had in her palace a special part that was her little
workshop where she actually went every Thursday evening.
If she didn't have any official thing to do, she goes there and
there she had a lot of things like materials that she had
bought on her travels and there were all kind of on hats and
veils and the jewelry. I mean, not a real jewelry like
fake Jew costume costume and an artificial flower things and all
this thing. It was like a little Aladdin
cave there. Then I came there that evening
and looked at those hats that you wanted me to look at for the
bell. That was another wonderful
experience. Walking in for your knighthood?
Oh, are you free tonight? Just need to.
Just need to show you a hat. So it's so many lovely memories
over these years. At any time.
I love to work at the Pantomime Theatre and I feel that
atmosphere and all of you dancing there, it's, it's so
great. I mean, it is something very
special and you know, I'm not there anymore as a dancer, but
like. But you also must have memory.
Exactly. From that time.
Any dancer that has works there and has gone on to either retire
or has gone to work somewhere else, everybody has such fond
memories of that place because it is like stepping into a time
machine. Because you know, the theatre
physically is run like it was when it was built.
You know, pulleys and ropes, doing all the scene changes and
everything. But, you know, it's a small
stage, the audience is outside, it's a rake stage.
It's not a sprung floor. So it is, yeah, dancing back in
the day. And it's very special and it is
a very small family. Also, yeah, there's a family
feeling about being there. And what was great, I mean about
your ballets that you did, was also, so we have the Queen of
the country making the sonography and the costumes.
We have yourself that we knew had a history with the theatre
as a child and with your father, but then also the composer.
Yes. James Price, James Praiser.
Yeah. It was his family that came over
from England all those years ago and brought over the original
pantomimes that they still perform to this day.
Yeah. So it's.
Just. Special, very special, those
Queen's ballets, and obviously those are little stories that
the audiences don't. Know no exactly.
But to be part of it, you're on stage, you're thinking, wow,
this is really something special.
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
And it's those little things that you can tell at your
seminars and and you can tell the audience.
Those are the opportunities that you have to, yeah, tell those
little Easter eggs, those little pearls of wisdom, those little
stories that you know. So I'm walking past the theatre
and watching Thumbelina won't know that the Queen of Denmark
did this. And yeah, yeah, I'm very happy
that I my life took me on that journey and managed to get a
piece of tibbling. Yes, that is something special,
yeah. So at the moment, where are you?
You are still travelling around doing staging, teaching.
Busy lady always. I am to my own surprise, but
pleasant surprise. Of course, I'm still very busy
and every time I think so now, probably there will not be
something for a long time. Then something pops up which is
lovely. And of course, what I have been
very happy for lately is that it seems like the new director of
the Royal Ballet, Amy Watson, has shown a special interest in
now focusing on the Bonneville and maybe bringing a bit more
Bonneville back into the company.
Fantastic. Also not only just bringing in
the ballets, but also maybe an understanding of it by using
people from my generation. Yes, I'm soon the oldest one who
is still alive and goes back to where I got it all from Hans
Brano and Kirsten Rallo and Frank Anderson, Eva Klubo and
Emily Vessel. And then nice that she wants to
use our knowledge also have us as kind of mentors for the next
generation that of course now I mean the future Bonoville
belongs to the next generation and it's very important that
they get as much luggage as they can from us.
Of course they also have, I mean, I know from myself what I
did, I got a lot from Hans Brano and Kiss Marallo.
But of course through the years also becomes yours.
You form it to your belief, because nobody knows exactly how
Bonoville wanted. There's a lot of things where
you have to trust your instinct and your knowledge.
Of course you can seek a lot of knowledge.
You can read his books, you can read about the man, you can get
a feeling of what did he want with his ballet, what did he not
want? And in that way, you can still
know a lot about what will be the style, what would be on the
style or not, right. But of course, in any way, for
each person who is now passing it on, teaching or staging, it
will also be a personal, there will be a personal mark to it.
That's how it should be. It's a living tradition.
But I've been really happy now to be involved with the new
staging of Camis and Brooks at the Royal Theatre that just had
premiere last week. And it had not been performed
for 13 years, which means that most of the dancers in the
company didn't know it, have no relation to it.
The Danish dancers who are now in the company, they were kids
when it was last done. So it has been a really
interesting process. Together with Rosa Gadd, who was
a Bonneville student of mine, Yeah, who had a lovely career,
also very good Bonneville dancer.
So she is now one of those at the moment, together with
Alexander Steger and also Thomas Lone, Yeah.
Who is still a little bit between those generations.
Yes. And Henry Adamoose, who is
working at the ballet school, they are kind of the ones now
that will have the responsibility.
And of course, the more one can help them by giving them
whatever I have learned. And not to say then you have to
copy it and do it the same. But I know how much it has
helped me, especially now when I'm older and I think back, Oh
my God, how much I learned from Hans Brano, from Kirsten Rallo,
from Tony Lander, from Fred Bjorn Bjornsen, from my father.
Also this great mime artist, Kirsten Simone, Paley Yakovsen,
Nilskaylet, I mean, name them Henning Kronstam, of course.
I mean, a lot of things that you have learned from these people
that maybe you don't think about it while it's happening, but the
more you start to be the one who has to pass on, you also realize
how much you have got from the generation before. 100% and
that's I think what's what's great because you know, Amy
Watson is, is kind of my generation.
There's also your Vani Ramos who is over in Mexico and this
generation of director who are now taking over companies.
There is this interest in the past and there is this interest
that they got taught by their teachers that they want to pass
on. And so her wanting to get this
born and built interest back into the company is fantastic
because yes, fine, we can, we can do new things, but let's not
throw away and let's not forget the great things that we've done
as well. Exactly.
I mean, I really believe strongly in that you have to
keep the connection with the past in order to develop and do
something. And also I think it can be very
inspiring also to dare to play a little bit with the tradition,
to do things, but only if you still know where it comes from,
what it is. You change why you change it.
That's why we call it living tradition.
It does change, but it doesn't. There's no cuts, no.
We are getting to the end of our interview and I have some quick
little pop questions to ask you. So let's start with #1 tell me,
what is the most amazing venue you've ever performed at?
Oh, I think I must say that was when we performed at the Bolshoi
Theatre. Oh wow, yeah.
And actually we did The Nutcracker where I did Clara
when we were on tour with the Royal Danish Ballet.
To be on that stage was quite overwhelming.
I can imagine all the history and the thing about what has
happened there and to really be there and to dance yourself on
that stage. I mean, yeah, I think that's
probably, at least that's the one that comes into my mind
first. Do you have or have you had
growing up a favorite dancer to watch?
Well, I think I'm the type that I like to have more than one
certain dancers I really love and admire for something and
others for something else. So it has really, really changed
through times. Of course, I I do remember
amazing experiences with certain dancers.
For instance, seeing Baryshnikov before he actually defected.
When we were on that Russian tour, we saw him in what was at
that time Leaning Grad performing in Don Queue, and it
was amazing. Yeah.
I mean, that was a dancer that just, I mean, what he did.
And we had to wait all the way to the last act.
There were five acts in that Don queue.
I think we were waiting very long to see, but that was worth
it all. I mean that that was kind of an
amazing experience. I have been very fascinated by a
dancer before I ever saw her dance, actually, which is
interesting. But it is very much because of
her looks, her story, what I found in my father's library or
ballet books. And that was Maria Torshev, who
was actually one of George Balanchine's wives before
Tentacle Leclerc. She was a ballerina with a New
York City ballet. But she then started to dance a
lot with Eric Brune and she came to Copenhagen finally.
And that was I started to kind of look her up in books because
I was fascinating by her looks and her story.
And, and finally I got to see her dance because she came to
guest with Eric Brune here in Copenhagen.
And that was amazing. She was a a very special
ballerina. But I've also, I mean, I have
had fantastic moments to watch Anna Lakison, who was a
ballerina here in Copenhagen, who was not grown up in the
Royal Danish Ballet, but to had had something very, very special
on stage. She was a creature a little bit
like. Another dancer that I've also
admired a lot is Eva EV Dukimova, who was dancing with a
lot with Peter Schaufos in She actually started as a young girl
in the Royal Danish Ballet sharing dressing room with me.
She was, she was only 18. She came Fleming Flint who
started to open up the company from more dancers from outside.
She came in and was with our company for two years, I think.
And later on I met her when I was helping Peter Xiaofus with
some of his Bonneville productions.
And she danced the Sylphied in his Sylphied in London and she
danced in Berlin when he did Folk Tale.
She danced Hilda and she was a beautiful dancer.
But I can probably mention a lot.
I mean, I think there were more images.
Those are the ones that just comes to my mind now when we
talk. So listeners, get on Google, try
and find these people. So what is the first theatre or
dance production you ever saw? I was so young when I started to
see ballet. So I mean, the chronology is
maybe a little bit, I don't know which one was the first, but I
know it was born over ballet or it was Capelia.
It was probably either a folk tale or Capelia, I think.
But it was those story ballets that were in the in the
repertoire, the Royal Danish Ballet.
I love Capelia. Yeah, me too.
That was my favorite ballet as a child, actually.
And I could. I knew Vanilla's role.
I danced it at home every Sunday, and I could sing all the
music. So when we went on tour with my
father's car around with the car, I was always singing.
I started with the overture and I finished with the last finale.
The whole ballet I was singing. OK, well that's a great segue
into what is the last piece of music you listen to, last song
or piece of music that you listen to today?
Today actually a very special music because now I'm working
with my husband Eric, who is also choreographing.
And we have found a Norwegian composer who is not very known
and his name is Las Minsos and he has composed a beautiful
piece called Cantabula. And actually Eric is
choreographing to it at the moment.
We are going to Amsterdam next month where we are working at
the European School of Ballet and I'm helping him, I'm his
assistant. It's very nice.
Therefore he's choreographing to this piece.
So I was just listening to it. It's a beautiful orchestra
piece, only about 5-6 minutes long.
Very romantic cantabula. Perfect.
Is there a piece of music or a song that always makes you want
to dance? Then any music from the
Bonneville classes, because if I hear a music there, my legs
start because I know which step belongs to it.
So it just goes like a horse in a Manish.
You hear the music and you do the steps, which can be actually
very disturbing for some beautiful piece of music that
you actually only connected with some some steps.
And I have a funny story about that actually, that my father
told me. It's about the Bonneville
classes in my father's time and all his generation, they did
every day the Monday class with the same music, the same music,
the same music all their time. So one of his colleagues from
that time called him and I think it was, can it be Gorbachev?
It was one big Russian that was had a big funeral that was in
transmitted in the television. And he called my father and
said, I don't know. Why did they play Saturday #3
for Gorbachev's funeral? Because that was a piece of
music that actually was used to one of the Bono steps.
I don't know which piece it was, but apparently it was a piece
that was very fitted for a funeral.
So you see, that music is kind of for those people who just
listen to that music all the time, every morning.
It's forever connected with those steps.
OK. Do you have a favorite teacher
that you've had? A favorite teacher, whether it
be at school or company class, or someone that you always love
to take in their class. That's a hard question because
the teachers who really means a lot for you are the ones you
have had a lot and they are not necessarily the one that you
are. Oh, my favorite because I mean,
they are you a teacher? I mean, I owe so much to Idiot
Fransen and to Vera Volkova, who were those two teachers who has
formed me and made me the dancer that I am.
I was in my time. And so of course, but sometime
when you say favorite teacher, it can be someone that you just
meet in summer course or you feel there's something special.
And there I have of course also come across teachers that had
given me something special, even if they have not followed me for
a long time. And 1 teacher that made a big
impression on me was a teacher I was taking classes with in New
York and his name was finest young and he had his own private
studio. I have no idea whether he's
still alive or probably he's not teaching anymore.
I don't know, but this class was kind of a combination of
something very spiritual. He had some exercises that also
a lot with the breathing. And I remember that time I took
the classes, it was actually helping me a lot in ways that I
had not expected, both the breathing and the way of the
mind, how the visualizing things.
So I loved his classes. They were quite hard because it
was 2 hours, I remember and he was teaching because in America
sometime you have those very big classes.
So he was standing on a balcony and speaking in a in a
microphone, but with a very soft voice and the, the things he
said made you really listen. So it's well, he's also kind of
an example that you don't always need a teacher who's there
physically to show you everything.
And so it was he could kind of visualize by the way he was
teaching. It made an impression on me.
And maybe it's not right to say it was my favorite teacher, but
it's but it's teacher that I really still remember for some
special thing. OK, so two more questions.
This is my favorite question. What is a memorable time you
made a mistake or forgot an entrance or something went wrong
on stage? Oh my God, that's those things
that you try to forget again. Sounds strange, said I, I cannot
right away come, but I'm sure. I mean, of course I have.
I have experienced this kind of blackouts on stage.
Of course. Where you?
Well, I mean, I remember on one tour with the Bonoval group, I
was falling three times in the same solo and I got a big
applause. The third time I fell because
then I couldn't believe and I don't know what happened.
I mean the floor was slippery or my shoe, but I don't know how I
managed in the same solo to fold three times on different places
in the on stage so well. At least the audience were with
you. Yes, they were.
That was so nice. So that I do remember and thank
God it was not. I didn't hurt myself.
It was just every time you get a shock when you kind of suddenly
find yourself on the floor. Three times in the same soda.
And also like ballet, sodas aren't that long.
No forgetting an entrance, actually, only in my dreams.
And then you have those streams where you cannot get in time on
stage, or you suddenly realise that the performance is finished
and you were not there or something strange.
I've told the story on this podcast before about it's
happened to me once so I've forgotten an entrance.
I didn't even forget the entrance.
I was early and it was the doors in the tinderbox.
I can't. I was one of the doors and I
came on stage 8 counts too early and I was the only door on stage
and everybody else is in the wings and I just stood there one
centre as a door and obviously it's it's 8 quick counts.
You know, the music is very quick music, so it's not that
long at all, but. But it feels long when.
It feels like 3 hours. So I did that in your ballet.
That's nice. That's a nice story.
No, I love these stories and I mean, it's really strange, but I
mean, I get a question like this.
I just all of a sudden I think there must have been I.
Must have done something I. Must have done something, but I
guess I'm good at forgetting those things going on if it's
too embarrassing. Oh, it just.
They're exactly and. The final question, what has
been the best premier party or last night party that you've
been to? Well, I think maybe the little
party that was after afternoon of a phone because it was my
debut, it was not a big party, but it was a very special party
for me. That is that is the one I think
of with parties. But of course those parties who
are also very nice are the parties where you celebrate a
colleague is either having a a big anniversary or as a farewell
party. And then I must say I have
experienced two fantastic ceremonies for myself.
One in Oslo when they celebrated my 50 years birthday with a
performance on stage with guest dancers.
And Eric Ashengrain, who is unfortunately not among us
anymore. He's really much, much missed.
It was really like the doctor dance who knew everything about
dance history. He was the conferenci for that
one. And they have found all films of
me dancing. Oh wow, It was a very special
evening and I had nothing to do with it.
I was told I should not be part, even if I was a director.
I was not allowed to know what was going to happen there.
Yes. And they made a very nice
farewell for me in Finland when I, when I finished as a director
there. That was also a very special
evening. And there are two things I
remember for that evening. One was that I made my longest
speech in Finnish because I had really decided I was going to
say something in Finnish. So I had written it in English
and I had asked someone to translate it to Finnish without
knowing if she really did it or if she got something else.
And I had memorized it so I could say it without reading.
Wow. And that was, I was a bit proud
about that myself, of course. And the thing was that when I
went out in the intermission, people started to speak Finnish
to me because they thought I was fluent.
And I just had to say, actually. I just learned to script.
Finnish it all. I was not even sure if what I
was saying, but I hope it was the right.
So that was quite nice. And the other thing was that the
dancer dancers had prepared in the party afterwards a fantastic
sketch where they were actually, one girl was impersonating me
and she was so good. I mean, really amazing.
I mean, how she had just seen the little things that I know
myself, I do, I mean, like touching my nose.
So I mean like little kind of habits I have.
So it was hilarious And and that was so and it warmed my heart so
much also because to do that has been a lot of work for them that
they had to do in their free time.
And they were were really doing it from they wanted to give me
that gift and and that was very touching and meant a lot to me.
It was lovely Dina, it has been so lovely chatting to you and
being able to talk to you. So thank you so much for joining
us today. Thank you for inviting me to
this. I think it has been wonderful to
walk down memory lane together with you, so thank you so much
for giving me this opportunity. Thank you and thank you
everybody for listening to another episode of Drinks at the
Bar. If you have enjoyed this
episode, please tell your friends and colleagues all about
our little podcast. Take care everybody, and
goodbye. Thank you, Dina.
Bye.