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Hello and welcome to Drinks at 
the Bar, a podcast where we 

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breakthrough the 4th wall and 
discuss everything about dance 

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and the theatre industry. 
My name is Paul James Rooney, a 

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dancer, choreographer and dance 
teacher based in Copenhagen, and

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I am your host of Drinks at the 
Bar. 

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Here we will discuss everything 
from hearing backstage stories, 

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touring shenanigans to deep 
issues like body image, 

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training, the reality of being a
freelance dancer and much more. 

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Today I have the privilege of 
being joined by a leading figure

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of the Danish ballet world. 
She was a principal ballerina 

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with the Royal Danish Ballet and
then went on to become Director 

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of Finnish National Ballet and 
the Norwegian National Ballet. 

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She has travelled the world 
teaching Bonneville repertoire 

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and keeping it true to its core 
techniques and storytelling. 

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She has received the Danish 
Order of Dannipol, the Finnish 

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Order of the White Rose, and the
Royal Norwegian Order of Merit. 

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Please welcome the remarkable 
Dina Bjorn. 

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Thought I could give you a white
wine because I remember from the

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days when we were at the 
Pantomime theatre with the Queen

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of Denmark. 
Nice little glass of wine in a. 

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Yes, you remember very well this
is well, this is one of my sins.

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I I don't really like a lot of 
alcohol, but white wine is my 

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thing. 
But I'm also very particular 

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about which wines I like. 
Has to be special grapes, but 

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it's lovely with the white wine.
Yes, well. 

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Cheers and welcome. 
Thank you. 

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Well, let's talk about your 
childhood and you growing up. 

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You are Danish. 
I am Danish as well. 

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I mean, actually, I was going to
say as Danish as one can be, 

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which means I'm a mix of many 
things back in generations. 

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Actually on my father's side 
there, I think there's some 

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Spanish from some generations 
back. 

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My mother's side is really 
multicultural because her 

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grandmother was half German and 
some Russian and she was born in

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New York. 
Oh wow. 

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New York was just because she 
comes from my mother's side. 

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It's a circus family. 
They were, they were musical 

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artists, yeah, like 5 
generations back and was 

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travelling with circus and doing
musical numbers, clowns and also

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more serious, but it was like a 
group. 

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So some numbers were with dance 
and some numbers were with 

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clowns and they, her grandfather
played five different 

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instruments and wow. 
So, so that's an interesting 

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background. 
And I think maybe when you now 

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say that I'm travelling so much,
I think it is in my blood from 

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that side completely. 
It's been really families that 

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were always on the road. 
So you've obviously from your 

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mother's side, you've got the 
music in your family from, yes, 

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a young age, and then your 
father. 

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Yes, my father is an exception 
in his family. 

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Actually he was the very first 
one who went into theatre and 

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and dance and it it was a funny 
coincidence. 

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He has told me himself how he 
became a dancer because it was 

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his older sister. 
She went to ballroom dancing and

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and there in that school there 
were a lot of girls, but there 

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were not so many boys who wanted
to do ballroom. 

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So the teacher he hired young 
boys from the Royal Danish 

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Ballet School to come once a 
week to dance with the girls to.

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Give some partners yes. 
So my father's mother saw these 

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very well behaved boys, yes, and
she liked their way, that they 

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were so nice and they could move
nicely and she thought it was 

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something for her little son to 
learn so well. 

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Behaved and. 
Good posture, yes, all that. 

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And then she saw there was 
audition for the Royal Danish 

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Ballet School. 
So she took him when he was six 

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years old. 
So the audition and he had 

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never, ever thought about dance 
or anything. 

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He has told me that that day 
there was kind of a little, it's

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called in Danish Barnegil's Day.
So that was a day where all what

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people or whatever they pay, 
they go to for a good cause for 

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children. 
And there was a lot of booze and

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entertainments on Kong's Muto. 
And he wanted to go on the 

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carousel. 
That was the only thing. 

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And then his mother said, oh, if
you now go to that audition and 

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behave nicely, then you go take,
go to the carousel. 

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So, so that's why he went to 
that audition and he was taken 

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and he was very happy to have 
his carousel afterwards. 

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Good old fashioned bribery, 
yeah? 

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But then, I mean, then he 
started the following this, I 

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think the audition was in May. 
And in August he started as a 

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Royal Danish Ballet school, six 
years old, and he stayed there 

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until he was 82. 
So that was a life with ballet. 

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OK. 
So obviously, from a very young 

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yourself, you're surrounded by 
music and by ballet. 

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I mean, my background is full of
that. 

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Of course. 
My mother was a pianist. 

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That was after she finished 
traveling that which she also 

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did in the beginning with the 
circus. 

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Then when the war came, they 
couldn't travel so much. 

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So she settled down in 
Copenhagen and she educated 

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herself as a concert pianist. 
Oh, wow. 

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And then she got to know people 
from the theatre, actually, 

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Harold Lander, yes, who used her
as a pianist to accompany when 

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he was travelling in the summer.
That was how she met my father 

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at the theatre, actually. 
That's how she got into the 

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ballet world. 
So she, as a pianist, she was 

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practicing hours every day. 
I mean, I heard music all the 

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time. 
And of course my father I didn't

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see so much because he lived in 
the morning to the theater and 

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sometimes it didn't come back 
until after the performance was 

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finished in the evening. 
But of course I heard a lot and 

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I was taken to see ballet since 
a young age. 

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So and I love to see my father 
on stage already. 

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Then he started to do more 
character roles. 

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That was his his strong side. 
So I love to see him Doctor 

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Capellius and the Witch in 
Lazelfeed and or also the more 

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funny parts like the school 
mistress in graduation ball. 

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He was very good in in female 
roles also. 

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And in LA female Gardea is the 
mother Simone and all these 

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things. 
So so I saw ballet since I was 

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very young. 
But for me it was like normal 

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day. 
I mean there was not something 

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special about it because I knew 
it was just their work. 

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So for a long time I never 
thought about that I was going 

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to be a dancer. 
And my parents are deliberately 

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didn't bring me to the ballet 
school when I was seven years 

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old. 
They didn't want to decide for 

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me. 
And I think they might have had 

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secret hope that maybe I chose 
some other profession that would

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have been interesting for them, 
maybe first of all to learn 

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about all of these years. 
And then of course, they also 

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knew the, the heart side, the 
backside of that whole business.

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But of course it, it, I was too 
influenced by by it. 

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But I used to say that I 
started, I became a ballet 

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dancer because I wanted to 
become a devil. 

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And that probably needs a little
bit more explanation, because it

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has actually to do with that my 
father became director of the 

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Pantomimes Theatre in Tivoli. 
Yes, he was director of the 

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Royal Danish Ballet. 
Yes, and pantomime. 

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Pantomime at the. 
Same time. 

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Yes, he was for many years, and 
he stayed longer with the 

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Pantomimes Theatre. 
He was for 12 years in the Royal

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Danish Ballet in two separate 
periods, but I think he was for 

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30 years. 
Wow. 

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And of course, when he started 
there, we couldn't go on summer 

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holiday because it's open in the
summer. 

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Yeah. 
So instead, actually, my mother 

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insisted we bought it a house 
with a garden, because before 

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that we were living in 
Copenhagen, in Holbasket, the 

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right around the corner from the
holiday. 

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Living city living. 
Yeah, but my mother insisted. 

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Now when we have to stay home in
the summer, I need a place with 

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a garden so at least I can sit 
in the sun. 

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I came, of course, staying in 
the, I came to Tiberli and I saw

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the pantomimes and I saw there 
were little devils in the 

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pantomimes and I wanted to 
become one of those. 

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And I said to my father, I want 
to be a devil. 

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And he said, well, we only take 
kids from the ballet school, not

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from the Royal Danish, but from 
private ballet schools. 

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But it has to be kids who 
actually knew a little bit about

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ballet and music and could know 
what, what had to do things 

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music. 
And then I wanted to go to 

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ballet. 
That's how it started. 

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OK. 
Yeah. 

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And then my father, of course, 
had ambitions and not ambitions,

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but he couldn't bear that I 
should just go to any ballet 

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school. 
He wanted to give me a good 

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teacher. 
And at that time there was then 

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a Latvian prima ballerina. 
It did Pfeiffer, who had married

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a Dane, Mr. Franzen, and she 
moved to Denmark and she opened 

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a private ballet school. 
And my father had heard about 

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that one. 
And that means he was a high 

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quality teacher teaching the 
Vaganova system. 

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So he suggested that I took 
classes there. 

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And that's was kind of the real 
start of my becoming a little 

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ambitious myself about becoming 
a dancer because she was a very 

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serious teacher and apparently 
she saw some talent in me. 

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So I never went through the 
Royal Danish Ballet School. 

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I went to private class with her
until I was 16. 

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And then I came into the Royal 
Danish Ballet as an aspirant 

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actually. 
So I have always in a way been 

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quite happy about that because I
kind of felt that I saw a little

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other side of the world before I
got into that theatre was even 

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if it was difficult at that time
to come in because everybody was

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like a big family. 
You had grown up together at 

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that time. 
There were all, there were no 

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foreigners in the company, 
right? 

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All the dancers were from the 
Royal Danish Ballet schools. 

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So they had all been brought up 
together and to coming from 

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outside was in the beginning a 
little bit difficult and and I 

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even started in the middle of a 
season. 

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I was lucky enough that I 
started together with two others

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of ET de Fransen's students. 
We joined the company in the 

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middle of a season and it's 4th 
one of us, Inge Jensen. 

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She was actually the only one 
who was accepted because we all 

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went to audition in the summer 
of 6063. 

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Then it was only Inge Jensen who
was taken into the company. 

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So that was actually a little of
a disappointment. 

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So when I didn't pass that 
audition to become into the 

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Royal Danish Ballet, what now? 
Yeah, but then actually I was 

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getting an offer. 
I was dancing at the Pantomime 

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Theatre actually that summer. 
OK, Then Svenbunk who had been a

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dancer for many years at the 
Pantomime Theatre. 

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In the winter when the pantomime
was closed, he had a little 

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group that was dancing in 
cabarets around the world, 

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right? 
And he had got an engagement at 

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BAM Salon or in Stockholm, which
is a very famous place. 

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I mean, it's a restaurant with 
entertainment and many famous 

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singers and entertainers come 
there, and then there's always a

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little dance group who come in 
between the dishes and those 

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little dancers. 
And he was supposed to go there 

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in the winter, and one of the 
dancers got injured and couldn't

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go. 
OK. 

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So he asked then me if I would 
like to join that group. 

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And of course, I at that time I 
was only 15, still very young. 

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Yes, I think it was because of 
my mother's background as the 

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circus arts is travelling. 
And she said, OK, I should have 

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the chance to go there. 
So I was three months in 

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Stockholm living with the two 
other girls, dancing at Band 

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Salonga with three shows a 
night, finishing like 3:00 at 

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night. 
Wow. 

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But it was a it was a very good 
experience to become 

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professional in a way. 
I mean, we danced. 

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It was like a mambo and a Kang 
Kang and a polka and different 

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costumes. 
And it was all choreographed by 

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Swan Book. 
And we were a group of eight 

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dancers, I think 6:00 or 8:00. 
So I learned a lot from from 

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doing that. 
And I tried to do my ballet 

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classes every afternoon, which 
was very lucky because then just

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when I had finished that it was 
about Christmas time, something 

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happened that it was announced 
at the Royal Danish Ballet that 

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they were going to go on a big 
tour to America, right, A three 

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months tour. 
The whole company of dancers 

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were obliged to go for three 
months to a the United States 

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and perform. 
And the only excuse is if you 

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00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:02,400
got sick or pregnant. 
So that was where some of the 

227
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,520
female dancers decided this 
might be a good time to make a 

228
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,000
family. 
So suddenly there were people 

229
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,480
who were becoming pregnant 
because then they actually could

230
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,800
be allowed to stay, stay home 
from a tour like that. 

231
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,040
Oh. 
Very clever and. 

232
00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,000
And for me, that was my luck 
because all of a sudden they 

233
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,240
needed more female dancers for 
that tour. 

234
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:28,320
They could already see that in 
1965, that was when the tour 

235
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,480
should happen. 
They would not have enough 

236
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,120
dancers in for the tour, Female 
dancers, right? 

237
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,520
So then all of us who were 
auditioning, we were then asked 

238
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,400
to join. 
So me and Vivek and Iben, who 

239
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:47,040
were all auditioning at that 
time in May, we were then called

240
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,160
and asked, can you start the 1st
of January? 

241
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,000
Amazing. 
For me, I was then 18 years old 

242
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,120
by then. 
To go three months cross country

243
00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,640
America first, It was like one 
night stand starting from 

244
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:04,480
Philadelphia and going all the 
way across, having one week in 

245
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,200
San Francisco, one week in Los 
Angeles. 

246
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,160
Yeah. 
And then three weeks in New 

247
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,560
York. 
In the end, wow, it was amazing.

248
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,520
Yeah. 
For us who were only 18, it was 

249
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,480
great. 
I think for some of the older 

250
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:21,400
dancers it was a bit hard to be 
away from family husbands and 

251
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,960
wives in Copenhagen for such a 
long time. 

252
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:29,640
But for me, and also for 
experience wise, we had a large 

253
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,120
repertoire. 
So we'd done so many different 

254
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,080
ballets and of course we young 
ones. 

255
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,160
We were in everything in the 
quarter ballet and was thrown in

256
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,160
also things we were covering. 
And then during the tour of 

257
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,080
course somebody got a bit sick 
or got a pain in the foot and 

258
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,040
had to rest for a few days. 
So then we got to do. 

259
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,000
So you weren't touring just a 
small repertoire you did take a 

260
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,920
lot of. 
We had a big repertoire. 

261
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,120
We had, yes, I mean of course a 
lot of Bonneville ballets, yes, 

262
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,960
but we also brought Ashton's 
Romeo and Juliet full length. 

263
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,480
We bought Roland, Patisse, 
Carmen, we don't pick it, Cool 

264
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,680
Bears, Miss Julie and Moon, 
Reindeer. 

265
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,760
We did Robbins, Young Person's 
Guide to the Orchestra that was 

266
00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:13,920
called Fanfare in Danish. 
So it was a really a big 

267
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:15,520
repertoire. 
Because I mean, nowadays 

268
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,520
obviously people go on tour and 
I don't. 

269
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,320
Know maybe one, mostly two 
programs. 

270
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,480
Exactly. 
We'll take Biadare and a couple 

271
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:23,560
of other things. 
Exactly. 

272
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,840
Now here it was really a 
Coppelia we brought. 

273
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:32,200
And of course, also Napoli, 
silfeit, Conservatoriat, all the

274
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,880
Bono Wheel things. 
So I mean, it was an amazing 

275
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,600
chance for young people, first 
of all, to do so much repertoire

276
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,200
within three months. 
Yeah, of course. 

277
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,560
And then to travel and see 
America from one end to the 

278
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:44,080
other. 
Yeah. 

279
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,520
We lived in good hotels. 
I mean, it was not luxury, but 

280
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,520
it was like we always had good 
service. 

281
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,680
I mean, Monet's breakfast and 
eating in restaurants and 

282
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,080
parties after each place. 
There was of course parties. 

283
00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,800
Of course, all the sponsors made
parties. 

284
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,400
And so it was. 
So it was a good start of a 

285
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:10,880
professional life. 
But it wasn't so long until you 

286
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,360
started getting your first 
soloist featured roles. 

287
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,400
Actually, it was also during 
that tour to America. 

288
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,040
Oh wow. 
Because it ended in New York, 

289
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:26,160
and when we were in New York, 
Mr. Jerome Robbins came to watch

290
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:27,760
classes and performances. 
Oh, wow. 

291
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,560
And apparently the change of 
direction happened also. 

292
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:37,040
My father had said he was ballet
director of that tour, and he 

293
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,320
said he was going to stop when 
the tour was finished. 

294
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,240
And then he had already passed 
it on to Flaming Flint. 

295
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:45,400
And Flaming Flint was part out 
of that tour. 

296
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,120
He was dancing as a guest 
dancer, OK, with us, both he and

297
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,000
Eric Broome. 
And he was supposed to take 

298
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,480
over. 
And I think he had talked to 

299
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,480
Jerome Robbins about getting 
afternoon of a phone, the 

300
00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,680
Predator. 
And it was supposed to be for 

301
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,760
his principal couple heading 
Cronstam and Cheston Simone. 

302
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,160
They were supposed to learn it 
while they were in New York. 

303
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,119
But then Jerome Robbins, he also
wanted a few other people maybe 

304
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:11,880
to learn it. 
So he's not the only one. 

305
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,839
And that was where he picked me.
Wow, and that was of course an 

306
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:21,599
amazing chance to get as a first
solo rolls and together with 

307
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:25,520
Neil Scaler to at that time also
was already a principal dancer 

308
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,400
with the company. 
So we rehearsed with Jerome 

309
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,880
Robbins in New York while we 
were there, which was amazing. 

310
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,440
And then he he didn't come to 
Copenhagen. 

311
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,560
Then he sent the dancer who did 
originally the part of Francisco

312
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,760
Mansion, who then came to 
Copenhagen when it then it had 

313
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,360
then its premiere in March the 
following year. 

314
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:52,240
So very quickly I was in there 
doing my first soleist role. 

315
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,080
And how was that working then 
obviously with an American and 

316
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,280
doing some, because obviously 
you haven't done that much 

317
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:00,800
repertoire. 
You've only just started with 

318
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,120
the world Danish. 
So how was that working with an 

319
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:06,520
American who will work very 
differently to how you've been 

320
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,400
working with a the Ghana 
training and with the world 

321
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,480
Danish? 
So how was that suddenly to be 

322
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,360
working with? 
It was, it was a challenge. 

323
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:17,560
Of course it was a challenge. 
But I mean, I have heard many 

324
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,760
stories about Jerome Robbins and
I'm sure many of them are true 

325
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,760
about how cruel he can be 
actually and actually really 

326
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:28,840
vicious sometime if he wanted 
to. 

327
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:34,600
But I must say, he was so nice. 
But I've been there were of 

328
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,000
course, also just four people in
the studio. 

329
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,640
So it was like he didn't need to
perform for anyone or so. 

330
00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:45,800
And he was very into, I mean, 
apparently this paradur was 

331
00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:47,880
something that also meant a lot 
to him. 

332
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:53,200
So he was really very, very nice
in giving little details and and

333
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,560
of course it was a lot about the
interpretation. 

334
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:59,720
I mean, the actual technical 
part of it is quite simple in a 

335
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,840
way in that ballet. 
But it's all about how you are 

336
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,320
doing. 
I mean, you have to look at that

337
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,200
mirror all the time. 
It's about two dances coming 

338
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,560
into a studio and they actually 
never really see each other. 

339
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:12,760
Only they see each other in the 
mirror. 

340
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,400
So the whole dance has to be 
danced as if you just look at 

341
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,400
yourself. 
And then just at the end, 

342
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,960
suddenly the guy is so into the 
story. 

343
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,920
So he kisses a girl on the cheek
and that's the moment when she 

344
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,280
suddenly realized that actually 
she is in a room with another 

345
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,480
guy. 
And there is this moment in the 

346
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,200
end where she just turns ahead 
and really looks at him and then

347
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,320
actually withdraws and and 
leaves the room. 

348
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:43,320
So it's a, there is a lot of 
acting in it or expression that 

349
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,240
has to come with those kind of 
simple movements. 

350
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,920
It is not easy, but kind of 
simple. 

351
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,960
It's not a lot of big jumps or 
difficult periods. 

352
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,720
No, no, but it's the intention. 
It's very yes. 

353
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:56,960
And a little tricky partnering, 
of course. 

354
00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,240
And I had never been partnered 
either because of course that's 

355
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,880
something you don't do when you 
just go to ballet school. 

356
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:03,600
Oh my. 
Gosh. 

357
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,640
So it was, it was wonderful 
actually. 

358
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,920
And that role, of course, it was
very nice because also since it 

359
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:15,400
was a short ballet, it was very 
practical to put it into many 

360
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,960
programs because also if people 
should change costume from one 

361
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,320
ballet to another, then we could
put that pattern so they had 

362
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,080
time. 
So in that way we actually got 

363
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:32,200
to do that really many times. 
And there was actually, I did it

364
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,760
with two partners. 
It was mostly when there's 

365
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,960
Kaylin, but also a young guy on 
a beck. 

366
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,640
He was also taught the piece and
he was getting chances so to do 

367
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,240
it. 
So I danced it with two 

368
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,960
different partners and for many 
years, which was nice. 

369
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,000
That is what I think. 
Maybe sometimes I feel a little 

370
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,800
sorry for the generation of 
dancers today because now it 

371
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,640
seems like in all companies you 
do a production and it's like 

372
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,800
you do it and then it's out and 
then it doesn't come back. 

373
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,640
Maybe until I mean maybe never 
comes back. 

374
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,720
Or if it comes back, it's not 
until five years later where 

375
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,080
maybe then it will be other 
people doing the part. 

376
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,880
So you don't have the same 
chance as we had to really to 

377
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,200
grow into a role to. 
Get through the. 

378
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,680
Game and the game and through 
years and that I think is a 

379
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:28,720
little bit of a loss in the way 
of how you make programming now 

380
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,240
I. 
Mean, we spoke to Thomas 

381
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,840
Whitehead from the Royal Ballet 
and he said the same thing 

382
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,720
regarding kind of the the same 
thing, but a different issue. 

383
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,040
Because there's so many casts, 
yeah, Nowadays there's so many 

384
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,200
principal casts and so many 
soloist cast that if they put on

385
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,240
Swan Lake, for example, he might
end up doing his role twice. 

386
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,680
Exactly. 
Because there's another six 

387
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,520
people playing Drosselmeyer. 
Drosselmeyer. 

388
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,480
Yeah. 
What part or whatever it is? 

389
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:59,320
Yeah, No, I think also that is 
it's it's really sad because I 

390
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,120
think that was something where 
you learned so much of being 

391
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:05,720
able to perform it. 
I mean, first of all, it's in 

392
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,320
performance. 
You really grow. 

393
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,840
I mean, you can rehearse and 
rehearse and rehearse and it's 

394
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,440
good and you learn, you get 
stronger, you get it into your 

395
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,640
body, but it's only in 
performance you can really start

396
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,400
to make make a roll out. 
Of it. 

397
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,840
I mean, I perform in lots of 
musicals at the moment and for 

398
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,280
me, if anyone asks, oh, should I
come see whatever show we're 

399
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,560
doing, I always say at least two
weeks after the premiere. 

400
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,400
Yeah, Come two weeks after the 
premiere, then we are all the 

401
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,520
nerves are gone. 
So people have relaxed into the 

402
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,280
roles. 
People have started to play with

403
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,920
different ideas and different 
stories to tell. 

404
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,120
Like the secondary characters 
now are start to have different 

405
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:48,000
storylines developing and all 
that is is something that you 

406
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,920
can't do if you only can perform
it twice. 

407
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,360
No, so I was, I always say it 
was a good time that that time 

408
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:58,120
where I was lucky enough to have
my dancing career because we had

409
00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:01,080
that opportunity. 
And I mean, it's also, I always 

410
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,640
use my father also as an example
because I mean, his example is 

411
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,400
very special because he did the 
role as match. 

412
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,920
He started to do it when he was 
in his 40s, OK. 

413
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,200
And he did his last performance 
when he was 82. 

414
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,120
So I mean 40 years with that 
same role he. 

415
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,200
Did that 82 Wow, he. 
Did his last show was 82? 

416
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,320
Yes, this. 
Was a very physically taxing 

417
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,040
role as well. 
Of course, to go into the 

418
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:36,120
character roles that Bonneville 
Ballet has a lot of good ones of

419
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,560
it of course prolongs your 
career of course. 

420
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,400
So, but it is very rare that you
can go on that long. 

421
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,080
And I mean also the development 
of the role. 

422
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,960
I mean, of course, I don't 
remember so even if I saw him as

423
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,960
a child when he started to do 
it. 

424
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:57,920
But I can see even from pictures
of him doing the role how he has

425
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,200
developed it and how it has 
changed and how it just got 

426
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,480
stronger and stronger and more 
and more have more and more 

427
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,400
little details and facets in the
in the interpretation. 

428
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,600
So I mean to have that 
possibility is is amazing. 

429
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,920
Do you think that working on the
Jerome Robbins piece, do you 

430
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,240
think that was maybe one of the 
first times the acting side of 

431
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,400
dancing, then kind of that 
interest in the acting side 

432
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,840
kicked in? 
Or had there been maybe some, I 

433
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,680
mean, already from the devil, 
maybe, yeah. 

434
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,200
I mean, I think for me 
personally, it's always been the

435
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,040
story side of ballets that I 
have been interested in. 

436
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,800
Also when I came as a child 
before I joined the Royal Danish

437
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,520
Ballet to see ballets, I I 
prefer to see ballet with a 

438
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,320
story and not the abstract 1 so 
much. 

439
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,760
And the abstract ones can can be
very interesting if you want to 

440
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,920
look at people's technique 
because maybe there it's more 

441
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,160
the pure dance and that will 
show how. 

442
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,040
But I think I like to be 
involved in characters, in 

443
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,160
persons on stage. 
And of course, the born of a 

444
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,680
repertoire is is so fantastic on
that. 

445
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,840
I was going to say, is that what
straight away has obviously LED 

446
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,760
you now to obviously with all 
your history and teachings and 

447
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,840
everything? 
Yes, with Bonneville, it's the 

448
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,400
story that interested you. 
Yes, definitely that. 

449
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:25,320
And that is real people with 
emotions and with relations and 

450
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,200
with stories. 
And there are, and with their 

451
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,800
little virtues and their little 
faults, and. 

452
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,040
Things, I mean, Bonneville 
always has everyone. 

453
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,240
They are human. 
Yes, people have problems. 

454
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,720
Yeah. 
And he Bonneville never hid away

455
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,600
from showing what a real person 
was like. 

456
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,800
This real person is gonna cheat 
on his bride and go with a self.

457
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,040
And all this kind of stuff shows
what a natural human being does 

458
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:50,200
is. 
So. 

459
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,240
So for me, that has always been 
important. 

460
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:57,880
So one can say it was not so 
alien to me what that Jerome 

461
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,680
Robbins wanted expression, 
right. 

462
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,040
But I was not used how to do it.
Yeah. 

463
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,720
Because of course in the daily 
training in class it was, there 

464
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,680
was no focus on that. 
Even if I think in a way there 

465
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,560
should be a little bit. 
I mean, presentation of steps is

466
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,200
part of how you also create a 
role. 

467
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,720
It's not just doing a step, but 
it's how you are doing it and 

468
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,040
how many different ways maybe 
you can do the same step. 

469
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,400
Yeah, it's interesting. 
It might be something to think 

470
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:32,120
about as as a teacher to maybe 
start giving just a tiny little 

471
00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:35,280
story to your on shame on from 
the corner just to like give a 

472
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:36,360
little light and shade. 
Cool. 

473
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:38,480
Now we've done it like this. 
Now let's. 

474
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,400
I think it's really a good idea 
to do because it kind of engage 

475
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:49,400
both body and mind and soul and 
feelings and everything in in 

476
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,240
the dance. 
And it should be, yeah. 

477
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,040
How was it for you stepwise with
Bourneville? 

478
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,320
Because you didn't have 
Bourneville schooling. 

479
00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:02,680
You joined the world Danish. 
They'd all gone through their 

480
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,960
Bourneville. 
If you don't know listeners, 

481
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,200
there's like a Bourneville 
weekly class. 

482
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,040
There's Tuesdays, pure wet and 
Wednesdays players and all these

483
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,920
things and the the people in the
company would have done this 

484
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,720
since the age. 
Of six done that from the ballet

485
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,480
schools at a time so they have 
done it all through their 

486
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,120
education. 
Of course, having my first born 

487
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:27,040
of your class when I was 16 
years old was of course very 

488
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,440
different because although I 
found little similarities 

489
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,440
sometimes to what I had learned 
from the Veganova. 

490
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,120
Yes, I did find similarities, 
but a lot of things were 

491
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:39,400
different. 
But I liked it right away. 

492
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,160
So that was that was a good 
thing because either you get 

493
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,280
totally scared or you feel you 
get, oh, this you will never 

494
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,960
learn and you maybe even create 
a kind of a distance to it. 

495
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:51,680
Yeah. 
Or you fall in love with it 

496
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,080
right away and you just want to 
learn it and to be able to do 

497
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,040
it. 
And it was more, that was how I 

498
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:58,920
felt. 
This was something I liked 

499
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,440
because I've always been more in
a Lake Rue dancer than an Adagio

500
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,320
dancer. 
I love the jumps. 

501
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,080
So that was for me. 
And then I found it so 

502
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,000
fascinating that there were all 
these steps in the in the 

503
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,120
school, in the classes that has 
been kept from born of those 

504
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:17,080
time up till now. 
And that all of that. 

505
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,360
I mean, our teacher came in and 
say, now we do Monday #13 and 

506
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:27,360
was what's #13 And then realized
that each class has about 2425 

507
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:31,920
different exercises. 
And there was one class for each

508
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,560
day of the week. 
And I started all that many 

509
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,120
wonderful steps. 
I want to know them all. 

510
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:42,000
So I started to write them down 
with my own little system that I

511
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,000
had actually copied a bit from 
my father because my father made

512
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,880
also his own notation with 
little stick figures. 

513
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,400
So he didn't have the like the 
official notation like finish or

514
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,760
lab annotation, but he made his 
own and I kind of copied that 

515
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:02,560
and made it into my own with 
also stick figures and little 

516
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,040
descriptions and counts 
underneath. 

517
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,400
And. 
Notation and I started to notate

518
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,240
all the Bonneville classroom 
steps and that has of course, 

519
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,280
ever since I call it my 
Bonneville Bible and I still 

520
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,000
have that book with all the 
steps. 

521
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,760
Now it has also been Kirsten 
Rallo later on in the 70s 

522
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,960
published a book where she 
described all the and they also 

523
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,280
notated in lab annotation and 
penis notation. 

524
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,840
And now there's also the video 
that was made in 2005 of all the

525
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,240
all the steps. 
So now it's all kept for 

526
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,680
eternity that way, but at that 
time it was only existing in 

527
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,560
people's heads and memories. 
Cast it down to the next 

528
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,000
generation. 
And so that's why I felt it was 

529
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,360
so important to start to write 
it down. 

530
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,160
So that was kind of the 
beginning of my special interest

531
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,120
in Bonneville and that has never
left me. 

532
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,440
But that's interesting that 
like, you know, starting it so 

533
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,000
late. 
I mean, that's what, because you

534
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,480
didn't grow up with it, 
obviously, you know, then it's, 

535
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,640
oh, what's this new thing? 
So it makes it exciting. 

536
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:11,320
And then of course, also because
it was not just the classes, it 

537
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,440
also had a connection with a 
repertoire, of course. 

538
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,040
So then it was Napoli with all 
the beautiful dances, folk tale,

539
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,920
Kermes, all these 
conservatoried, yes, flower 

540
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,320
festival, Patadur. 
I mean, you realize that, OK, 

541
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,600
you could also use what you 
learned in those classes on 

542
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,840
stage. 
So there was kind of a nice 

543
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,800
connection there. 
So I read, yeah. 

544
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,760
Also you started straight away 
almost teaching then Bornonville

545
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,680
very early on. 
Yes, I did start earlier. 

546
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,640
I started actually first we're 
doing little lectures on 

547
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,000
Bornonville for Ballet Club and 
for somewhere. 

548
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,120
I came and I was talking about 
how it is to be a dancer, a 

549
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,520
little bit about the daily work 
and. 

550
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,800
Then, like fans of ballet. 
And for friends of ballet and 

551
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:03,960
the different societies who 
makes kind of arrangements for 

552
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,600
their members. 
So I came to schools or gym 

553
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,120
halls and did this little talk 
and a little demonstration. 

554
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,520
I always put a lot of Bonoville 
into that also. 

555
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,480
So I've showed something. 
And then in 75, I think that 

556
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,520
must have been when I was then 
asked to teach a battling 

557
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,680
seminar, right? 
So it actually the actual 

558
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:33,240
teaching of Bonoville started in
75 and then I was 28 I guess. 

559
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,960
OK, so I had done a lot of 
Bonoville then, but 75 I started

560
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:42,640
teaching like officially because
I was asked by Bartolin in the 

561
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,440
summer seminar and that was 
there. 

562
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:50,840
I really needed my Bible. 
So I remember I chose I should 

563
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,760
teach the Tuesday class and then
I went through all my notes of 

564
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,400
the Tuesday class and Hans 
Breno, who was at that time the 

565
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,600
Bonoville teacher, together with
Kiss and Rallo at the theatre, 

566
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,920
he came, he was really, really 
nice. 

567
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,360
He came and went through all the
steps with me at home. 

568
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,840
I was living in having together 
at that time and we had a corner

569
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,480
room where we just took away the
furniture and he was dancing 

570
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,560
around in our room and showing 
me all the steps and where all 

571
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,120
what was the Apollomang in the 
head and with his cigar in the 

572
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,120
fingers with his little Spanish 
espadrillas on the feet. 

573
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,400
So you couldn't see if it was 
pointed or flexed. 

574
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,320
But he gave me really kind of 
the the understanding of the 

575
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,200
statement. 
And the little insights and 

576
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,000
insider knowledge and yeah. 
And so that's when he started. 

577
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,480
And then the year after we 
started the Bonneville group, 

578
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:50,120
Frank Anderson and me, which was
supposed to be just a one summer

579
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,760
event because we went with the 
Royal Danish Ballet to America 

580
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:59,440
in 76 again. 
And the year before, Frank 

581
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,840
Anderson had been a Jacob's 
Pillow and he got the idea he 

582
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,680
wanted to bring a group of Danes
to Jacob's Pillow. 

583
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,560
And when he came back, he told 
me about it. 

584
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:14,240
And I had at the same time been 
contacted with a friend of a 

585
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,640
friend of the in the ballet club
who lived on the West Indy 

586
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:23,720
Island on Saint Croix. 
And she wanted the Royal Danish 

587
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,640
Ballet to come there, but they 
didn't really have a big theater

588
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,880
for that. 
So she had also asked if maybe a

589
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,320
small group could come after we 
had finished. 

590
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,200
So Frank and I, we decided, OK, 
we can put these two products 

591
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,840
together. 
We can make a group together. 

592
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,640
And we go to Jaco's Pillow and 
then we go to Saint Crow and 

593
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,200
Saint Thomas. 
And that was how it started. 

594
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,560
And we were only, we were 8 
dancers, 4 girls and four boys, 

595
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,440
just as colleagues. 
We, I mean, it was not official.

596
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,600
It was, we were not sent out by 
the theatre. 

597
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,520
No, we did it on our own 
initiative. 

598
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,200
We were renting the costumes 
from the theatre. 

599
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,640
We were making recordings of the
music. 

600
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:07,040
That had nothing to do. 
With that, except that they kind

601
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,320
of helped us a bit when we 
needed help for costumes and 

602
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,719
things like that. 
And that became the start. 

603
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,320
I mean, then that Bonoville 
group existed for almost 15 

604
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,560
years where we every summer went
somewhere and it, I mean it kind

605
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,719
of developed. 
The last years we were 10 or 12 

606
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,080
dancers and but the first many 
years we were only 8 dancers. 

607
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,480
And then were you adapting 
ballets to make them for small? 

608
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:31,360
Yes. 
We were. 

609
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,639
We were only doing Bonoville 
reversal in the beginning. 

610
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:38,760
Then we added some more also 
because it became quite hard 

611
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:42,239
since we couldn't really do the 
real ballet, so we couldn't do 

612
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,600
all the mime. 
So it was kind of all the 

613
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:49,400
dancing only. 
So I mean, we realized how hard 

614
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,360
it is going to. 
Say, take out mimes out of a 

615
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,639
ballet, then suddenly it's just 
back-to-back steps. 

616
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,920
All the steps and since we were 
only eight, it was a lot of 

617
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,040
changing costume and running in 
again and doing the next reason.

618
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,320
So that was it was great fun and
travelled a lot. 

619
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,320
It was not only America, it was 
a lot in America, but also in 

620
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,040
Asia. 
We started also, we we were both

621
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,200
in Korea, in Malaysia, in the 
Philippines. 

622
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,240
So had Borneville been. 
Had Borneville Ballet been seen 

623
00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:21,040
over there before? 
In these places? 

624
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,400
Never. 
No, and that was also very 

625
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,640
interesting because of course it
was not what they saw. 

626
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,640
I mean, if they saw classical 
ballet, it was kind of the 

627
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:35,080
Russian classics. 
It was like Swan Lake and maybe 

628
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,000
also Spartacus or something like
that. 

629
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:39,840
Big and showy. 
Yes. 

630
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:45,400
So the Bonoville was very subtle
for them and well, I think I'm, 

631
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:52,800
I'm not quite sure if they 
really liked it, but but we, 

632
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,480
some places we were invited 
back. 

633
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:55,920
We were quite a lot in Hong 
Kong. 

634
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,680
Actually we were several times 
in Hong Kong when it was still 

635
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,000
Hong Kong and not part of China.
And that was and they, they 

636
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,880
liked us there, but they were 
probably also a little bit more 

637
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,600
used to see. 
The British. 

638
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,680
British and yes, a little bit 
more variety of ballets, but I 

639
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:16,800
remember it's because in those 
years in order to just not only 

640
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,200
to do Bonneville, we actually 
got the permission to do Hans 

641
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,880
van Manens ballet. 
That's called septic extra, 

642
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,800
which is actually a little bit 
of a parody on classical ballet.

643
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,520
So it's it's like Jerome 
Robbins, this mistake walls that

644
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,360
is in his concert ballet, like 
all these things that you as a 

645
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,920
dancer know this is funny and 
this can happen. 

646
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,560
He has also kind of made a 
ballet of that. 

647
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,040
But of course, when we performed
it in Asia, they have no 

648
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,200
reference to it. 
So I mean, when we did it in 

649
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,840
America, people were laughing 
hysterically. 

650
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,840
When we did it in Asia, it was 
totally silent. 

651
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,600
Nobody was laughing because they
didn't quite understand the fun 

652
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,800
of it. 
And then all of a sudden, in the

653
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,240
middle of a very serious ballet,
they laughed very loud. 

654
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:07,800
IF2 dancers got really close to 
each other, they saw that was 

655
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,040
very funny. 
Yeah, and then suddenly they 

656
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,920
were laughing at places where we
were because. 

657
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,400
It was like nervous. 
Yes, yeah. 

658
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,280
So it was interesting also, I 
mean, to dance with different 

659
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,000
audiences. 
I mean that, I mean, that is one

660
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,360
of the best things about touring
is taking things to different 

661
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,160
countries and experiencing the 
cultures. 

662
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,520
But like, that's fantastic that 
you have taken Bonneville to 

663
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:32,080
these countries and now you see 
hundreds of girls from Japan and

664
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,360
from other Asian countries doing
Flower Festival Valley 

665
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:36,920
competition. 
Exactly. 

666
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:43,080
That's also very interesting. 
You were actually just talking 

667
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,280
about ballet competitions. 
Yes, yes. 

668
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,960
And that's very interesting 
because I mean, now there are 

669
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,200
competitions everywhere. 
And I mean, it's become like, 

670
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,440
like a pandemic. 
It is, and I think, you know, I 

671
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,600
think it's become we spoke about
it actually on this podcast. 

672
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,040
We spoke about it as I think one
of the good things about these 

673
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,720
ballot competitions are a way to
help people get some money, a 

674
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:09,360
grant to help them with their 
tuition, with their scholar, 

675
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,200
with like a scholarship for some
training. 

676
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,440
I mean, that's something that's 
great about all these 

677
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:14,560
competitions. 
But yes. 

678
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,160
But I mean in my time, of 
course, it was quite new when I 

679
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,920
was a young dancer and there 
were not so many. 

680
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,880
I mean there was the one in 
Varna and the one in Moscow. 

681
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,560
They were the two first ones. 
I went to a ballet competition 

682
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:32,560
in 1968 in Varna and it was only
the 3rd or the 4th ballet 

683
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,960
competition there. 
It was only every second year 

684
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,400
there. 
So it had been going on for some

685
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,720
years and it was one of my 
colleagues at the theatre that 

686
00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:45,040
time, Hans Jacob Kolgo, he had 
just read about that and he had 

687
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,520
read that all these Russian 
stars were going to be there. 

688
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,920
So he said, shouldn't we go to 
that one? 

689
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,240
And it's at the Black Sea, so we
can be at the beach and then we 

690
00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:59,240
can see all the stars and the 
and we just need to prepare some

691
00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:02,520
predators. 
So the holiday is more 

692
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,080
important. 
And I had no idea about this. 

693
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,280
I said, yes, that sounds like a 
great idea. 

694
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,840
So we did prepare and we did go.
And of course when we got there,

695
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,680
I mean, we got a little bit of a
shock because then we saw how 

696
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,600
all competitors were from either
from Russia. 

697
00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:22,840
I mean, at that time there was 
the the Soviet, yes. 

698
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:27,680
And then there was from Romania,
Bulgaria, Poland. 

699
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,680
And so not very many outside of 
of that. 

700
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,040
No. 
No, very few. 

701
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,280
So we were kind of one of the 
very few ones that were not. 

702
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:39,200
Right. 
Yeah, not from this area. 

703
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,800
Yeah. 
And then we saw how they came 

704
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,240
with, I mean, they came with 
coaches and ballet masters and 

705
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:47,960
masters and therapists and I 
don't know what. 

706
00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:53,200
And thank God my father had said
yes to join us. 

707
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:58,520
So we had my father with us and 
thank God because we didn't know

708
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,520
it's first of all, it was a 
fight to get, I mean, where 

709
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,680
could you get rehearsal time? 
Where could you do a class? 

710
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,720
I mean, it was a little bit 
unorganized at that time and 

711
00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:10,600
most people only spoke Russian 
or Bulgarian. 

712
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,600
So we needed interpreters to 
help us. 

713
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,960
And so, so, but I mean, thanks 
also to my father, it, it went 

714
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,520
fine and it was just an amazing 
experience. 

715
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,200
But because the reason I thought
about it was that was where we 

716
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,760
actually introduced Bonoville in
a ballet. 

717
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,520
Oh, wow, Because we did Flower 
Festival and then we were lucky 

718
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,120
enough that we got to do it 
because we had planned it for 

719
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,640
the third round, but I would 
never know. 

720
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,680
I mean, we would get that far. 
Of course, we started with the 

721
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,520
first round where we had planned
to do Donkey Predator because we

722
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,600
had done that in our partner 
classes in the afternoon. 

723
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,440
So we knew a very nice, good 
version of it that we had 

724
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,960
practiced a lot. 
So we thought that we could do 

725
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,600
because there you had to choose,
it was not free, had to choose 

726
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:01,520
between. 
Oh, there was a. 

727
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:02,840
List. 
Yeah, there was a list. 

728
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:07,840
So we chose the Don queue. 
Then the second round, it was 

729
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:12,160
what they call contemporary or 
modern, yes, which at that time 

730
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,840
just meant that it was 
choreographed later than 1950 or

731
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:20,760
something, because that round 
was really interesting from that

732
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,400
point of view. 
Because all the Russians, they 

733
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,880
did another one like just with 
some other music. 

734
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,480
And the choreography was done 
after 50, but the steps were all

735
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,000
the same. 
I mean, it all looked like 

736
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,840
classical predators, just with 
different music. 

737
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,600
And the choreographer did it in 
1955. 

738
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:43,760
But Hansaka and I, we had got 
special permission from Jerome 

739
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,720
Robbins to do afternoon of a 
phone in the second round, even 

740
00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:50,520
if he had never done it. 
There's Jerome Robbins was also 

741
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,440
really nice and said that that 
was fine, we could do it. 

742
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,080
And that was our luck. 
I mean, in our first round, it 

743
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:01,480
was amazing that we managed 
because the first thing that 

744
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:06,240
happened was that we have to 
draw a number in what order it 

745
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:08,160
is. 
And it was always the women. 

746
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,440
If you were a couple, then it 
was the women who did. 

747
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,120
And I draw a number. 
So I should always dance after a

748
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:18,200
Galina Rosina, who was actually 
later on Galina Panova. 

749
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,200
And she was a big ballerina. 
She was 25 years old already, 

750
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:27,040
prima ballerina at Bolshoi, and 
she was the one who won the gold

751
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,600
medal actually. 
And I had always to dance after 

752
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,520
her so. 
And I remember when we were 

753
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,360
going to do our Don queue, when 
we're standing there in that 

754
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:42,320
beautiful outdoor stage in Varna
where we can only perform in the

755
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,320
evening because it gets too hot 
in the day. 

756
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,200
And we're standing there behind 
the bushes on the side to wait 

757
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,080
for the next entrance. 
And I saw the one dance before 

758
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,280
and they did Corsair. 
It was just like, I mean, she 

759
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,960
was thrown in the air, double 
fish around. 

760
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,120
She does triple for a taste. 
And I mean, it was like, all 

761
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,560
right. 
And now we're going to come with

762
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:09,760
a very nice little. 
Well, we had learned in our 

763
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,840
partner class there were no big 
tricks in that one, but I think 

764
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,840
we might have must have been 
very charming. 

765
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,440
So I think we won, got through 
the first round on our charm. 

766
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,640
On the charm. 
Because we had to compete with 

767
00:43:23,720 --> 00:43:27,560
the seniors because we would, we
were just too old to be junior. 

768
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,840
So that was also so our the one 
we were with were the ones who 

769
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,960
were already stars in the 
companies. 

770
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,240
And then in the second round 
doing afternoon of a phone, of 

771
00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:42,640
course, that was something they 
had never seen and they were so 

772
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,880
breathtaking by it. 
So I mean, there was no. 

773
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,440
Then we went into the third 
round. 

774
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,120
Fantastic. 
Thank you, Jeremy Robbins. 

775
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,880
Yes, definitely. 
And then we did Flower Festival 

776
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,160
in the third round and they 
never seen that one either. 

777
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,120
And they were, I mean you could 
feel there was this relief 

778
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,120
because in the third round then 
came again, Black Swan. 

779
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:05,640
Don't queue Black Swan junk you 
Cosair, Cosair Black Swan. 

780
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:11,720
He was like, and then suddenly 
came Bonoville Flower Festival. 

781
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:16,080
They're totally different 
atmosphere and mood and steps 

782
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:20,600
and joy and everything. 
So we actually won bronze medal,

783
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,040
fantastic and the Bonoville got 
seen for the first time. 

784
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,440
And now everybody doing flower 
festival at this competition. 

785
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,240
You were the first. 
That's amazing. 

786
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:31,640
It's It's fun to think of. 
Yeah, wow. 

787
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:38,400
So before we move on to your 
career that went past your 

788
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:42,120
performing career, we have to 
quickly stop and just still dust

789
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,040
on your dancing career because 
that was also incredibles. 

790
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:50,800
What are some highlights for you
roles that you loved playing? 

791
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:55,000
Well, I think one role that 
actually became almost a 

792
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:59,360
signature role for me was to do 
Clara in the Flaming Flint's 

793
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,400
version of Nutcracker when it 
was a role that he, one can say,

794
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,800
created for me. 
Of course, the role exists. 

795
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,640
I mean, not crackers, not 
Cracker, but he he made a very 

796
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,720
nice story about the Danish 
family. 

797
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:16,600
And it was beyond Bin Blair who 
did the the decor and costumes. 

798
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:21,080
So I think it was a version that
really fitted the company and 

799
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:26,160
also the audience very well. 
And the role of Clara in his 

800
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,720
ballet was in in very many 
versions. 

801
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:32,040
Of course Clara is in the one 
who becomes the Sugar plum or 

802
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,240
dance the patadur, but not in 
this version. 

803
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:39,480
I I stayed as Clara as a young 
Clara do out the ballet. 

804
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,520
So I was also in the second act 
and danced a little solo, but I 

805
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,200
never I was not the ballerina. 
The ballerina was in the sugar 

806
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,280
Plum fairy. 
So and that role of course meant

807
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,640
a lot to me. 
It was also, it was recorded on 

808
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,400
television and in that way, of 
course you get really known 

809
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,840
because that's something people 
look at when it comes on 

810
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,000
television. 
And of course, to be Nutcracker 

811
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,760
and have a role there is good, 
because that's one thing you 

812
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,800
know for sure it's gonna be 
every season. 

813
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:07,640
Well, yeah. 
So. 

814
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,920
Nutcracker is coming back. 
Yes. 

815
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,880
So that role I danced really 
very many years. 

816
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:18,360
I was over 30 I think when I did
my last Clara so, but I probably

817
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,440
still look like I was only 12, 
yeah. 

818
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:25,080
Yeah, I had the same problem as 
well in Peter Bo's Nutcracker. 

819
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,760
I think I was 34 when I was 
playing Fritz, so you know. 

820
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:39,280
So I did some deep delving into 
you and I've, I know quite a bit

821
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,560
about you, but I didn't realise 
that you had worked as a 

822
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,800
choreographer. 
Where I currently work now, I 

823
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,880
work at the New Theatre. 
And you worked at the New 

824
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:49,440
Theatre? 
That is right. 

825
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,440
Yeah, that's true. 
Yes. 

826
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:58,160
That was in a way where I almost
started my choreography career, 

827
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,120
if you can call it that. 
I have never considered myself 

828
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:06,720
as choreographer as such, but I 
have done pieces that I feel 

829
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,120
based more on the theatrical 
thing. 

830
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,480
I think I don't feel I'm a 
choreographer that way, that I 

831
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,840
invent fantastic new steps or 
ways of moving. 

832
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,440
You tell stories. 
I like to tell stories through 

833
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,040
dance and that's what I have 
done quite a lot actually. 

834
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,880
And it's true, it almost started
there. 

835
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,360
The first chance I had to do 
choreography was actually 

836
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:32,400
Flaming Flint, who gave us young
dancers in the company and said 

837
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,680
I'm going to make an evening. 
Anybody who wants to do some 

838
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,200
choreographer can you can sign 
up for it. 

839
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,400
You have to work in your free 
time and then you have to come 

840
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:45,080
and show me the piece and then 
we will perform it for some 

841
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,040
performances. 
That was on the news. 

842
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,880
New scene, the new stage. 
At that time we were always 

843
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,600
performing on both the old stage
and the new stage, right? 

844
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,960
So that was where I did my first
piece of choreography because we

845
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:02,080
were three who said yes, it was 
me, It was Hanshaka Kolko, the 

846
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,240
guy I went to, Vanaman and Peter
Shafus. 

847
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,440
The three of us said we would 
like to do choreography. 

848
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:12,600
And we made an evening where we 
did a piece, each of us, and it 

849
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:16,120
was shown at the new scene and 
it actually became such a 

850
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,520
success that it got some extra 
performances. 

851
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,480
That was not planned. 
One could do that that time. 

852
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,560
Now one cannot anymore. 
Nothing that hasn't been planned

853
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:26,520
five years before. 
You cannot change. 

854
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,320
But there you could just go and 
say, OK, we can do a few more 

855
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,280
shows of this one because people
seem to be interested in it. 

856
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:37,520
So that was very nice. 
But after that it was actually 

857
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:41,800
Frank Schaufus who gave me the 
next chance because he was then 

858
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,200
directing a little company at 
the New Theatre. 

859
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:50,000
There was a school and also what
he called a little company with 

860
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:54,000
dancers, some dancers from the 
Royal Danish Ballet, some 

861
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,040
dancers from actually the 
pantomime tea identity. 

862
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:01,680
And he did some shows twice a 
year, I think it was, with 

863
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:06,440
different programs, and he asked
me if I would like to do a piece

864
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:10,200
of choreography for them. 
So that was my second one. 

865
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,760
And that was actually the one 
that started my collaboration 

866
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,680
with the Danish composer who 
unfortunately just died very 

867
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:22,040
recently, Pianergo, who was, I 
mean, a very famous composer in 

868
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:26,560
the 70s and 80s, Very modern. 
Yes, totally modern. 

869
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,360
OK. 
And so far away from Bono, I 

870
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:35,520
would say I had heard something 
in the radio and I was 

871
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:40,160
fascinated by APC had done for 
accordion. 

872
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,480
Oh, OK, That was called 
Anatomical Safari. 

873
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:49,400
And it was like a yes, it was. 
And it was different variations 

874
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,120
played by accordion. 
And it had, I mean, again, I 

875
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:57,120
felt it told so many stories. 
So it immediately inspired me, 

876
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:02,720
even if it was not the normal 
1234123, it was kind of 

877
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:05,960
different and it challenged to 
do different kind of 

878
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:06,800
choreography. 
Yes. 

879
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,880
So I took that challenge and 
I've made in that ballet 

880
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:14,480
Anatomical Safari that was 
performed at the New Ted as my 

881
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,520
second piece with dancers. 
The two, the main couple was 

882
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,720
Frank Anderson and Anna Marie 
Dubdale, who was from the Royal 

883
00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:22,280
Theatre. 
Yes. 

884
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:26,000
And the rest of the group was 
from the panto Theodore or 

885
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,480
freelance dancers who actually 
was part of his group. 

886
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,120
Wow, full circles. 
Yeah, it's fun, isn't it? 

887
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,880
So you start choreographing 
while you're still a dancer at 

888
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:40,840
the theatre. 
Yes. 

889
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:45,880
So my first pieces, also, the 
third one I did was again, it 

890
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,760
was a piece for the real 
repertoire at the Royal Danish 

891
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:53,000
Ballet on a very specific theme.
And it was actually, it wasn't 

892
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:58,360
my idea, but I was approached by
a designer and a composer who 

893
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:02,400
had this idea about making a 
ballet about people who had that

894
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,920
sickness, a leper. 
Oh yeah, A. 

895
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,920
Leprosy. 
A leprosy, yes, because he had 

896
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:12,960
read the one who got the idea 
that they had to have some 

897
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,800
wooden things on them so they 
could make a noise when they 

898
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,320
came to villages, so people 
could go and hide before they 

899
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,560
came, not to be infected by 
them. 

900
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:29,880
And that had inspired A musician
who was was percussionist, so he

901
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,800
thought he could compose a 
fantastic piece using the 

902
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,600
percussion instruments to kind 
of illustrate this kind of 

903
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,080
different sounds and rhythm when
they were knocking. 

904
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,560
And I was presented to that idea
and I took it also as a 

905
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:46,400
challenge. 
So my third ballet was actually 

906
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,760
this ballet that was then done 
in the Royal Danish Ballet 

907
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,640
repertoire. 
And now I have to remember, what

908
00:51:52,640 --> 00:52:00,360
was the title? 
Yes, it was called in Danish 

909
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:04,880
Summer Fool, a mask and the 
butterfly mask, because it was 

910
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,800
about among those lippers, there
was a young girl who was also 

911
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,480
sick. 
And she covered her face with a 

912
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:15,360
beautiful mask that had the 
shape of a butterfly because her

913
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,400
face was probably, I mean, 
scarred and because of the 

914
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,400
sickness. 
And she had that mask. 

915
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,080
And then a young boy of the 
village, of course, falls in 

916
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,680
love with her. 
And so that that was a little, 

917
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,240
that was a story. 
It was a story, managed to put 

918
00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:33,760
the story in there. 
So that was my third ballet that

919
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:35,560
I did for the Royal Danish 
Ballet. 

920
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:41,400
Wow. 
So already are you thinking when

921
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,800
I retire from performing I want 
to choreograph or where's your 

922
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,840
mind at this point? 
You know, this is really, I have

923
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,360
thought about it sometime 
because I know how hard it is 

924
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:56,400
for many people that transition 
from being an active dancer on 

925
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,360
stage and all of a sudden it's 
all finished and what to do 

926
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,920
next. 
And I have been so lucky that I 

927
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,800
have somehow missed that and 
that crisis. 

928
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:11,320
Yes, because I think very early 
on when I was dancing, I already

929
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,560
started to do other things. 
Yes, I was teaching. 

930
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,160
I was interested in doing 
Bornoville also, not only 

931
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,160
dancing it myself, but also 
talking about Bornoville, 

932
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:23,640
teaching other people the 
Bornoville. 

933
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,800
I was interested in the 
choreography through that 

934
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:30,800
connection with Piano Go. 
I actually for many years worked

935
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,760
very closely with him and did a 
lot of pieces of choreography to

936
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:39,360
his music, ending with actually 
choreography the two of his big 

937
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,880
operas. 
So all that I did also at the 

938
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:44,720
same time when I was still 
dancing. 

939
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,880
So somehow the transition was 
gradual. 

940
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:53,480
And then I think when Fleming, 
when Henning Cronstam finished 

941
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:58,440
as a ballet director, actually I
together with Johnny Eliasen and

942
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,600
Frank Anderson, we said there 
must be somebody here from the 

943
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,600
Royal Danish Ballet who wants to
take over. 

944
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:08,320
So the three of us, we were all 
applying for the job is becoming

945
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,720
ballet director after after 
hitting drone stem. 

946
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,560
And that was a very interesting 
also because you had to stand in

947
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:20,520
front of all your colleagues and
tell what would be your plans 

948
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:22,600
and that they could ask you 
questions and. 

949
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:27,000
All the other dancers. 
All yes, I mean the three of us.

950
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,200
We were asked then to come in 
front of the dancers and tell 

951
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:34,560
them if we become director, what
would we do and what were our 

952
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:38,640
visions and plans? 
And so it was quite challenging.

953
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,320
And it ended, of course, it that
ended with that. 

954
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,920
Frank got the job. 
I mean, it first was actually 

955
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:48,600
Tony Lander got the job, but 
then she had to say no because 

956
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,520
she already knew by then that 
she was sick and couldn't say 

957
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:53,840
yes. 
And then Frank was the next on 

958
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,680
the list. 
So Frank got the job and that 

959
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:59,720
was a change of course also for 
me. 

960
00:54:59,720 --> 00:55:02,240
Frank and I have always been 
very close. 

961
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:06,280
I mean actually Frank had his 
almost his debut together with 

962
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:10,400
me in Flower Festival. 
But a program in London at BBC, 

963
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:14,120
some program that was called 
Opportunity Knox. 

964
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:18,080
Yes, I've heard. 
Of yes, and we went there to do 

965
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:22,640
flower festival and I don't ask 
me why they we were going to do 

966
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,800
that. 
I just I just know that I was 

967
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,240
contacted and it it was all 
planned and I should come with a

968
00:55:29,240 --> 00:55:32,720
partner to do flower festival at
that in that program. 

969
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,040
And I asked Frank, who at that 
time, I mean he's quite younger 

970
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:39,680
than me, so he was just become 
first year dancer, I think. 

971
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,240
And I said, do you want to go 
with me to do Flower festival 

972
00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:44,960
in? 
Yes. 

973
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:50,000
So we went to London together 
and we danced in this program 

974
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,040
opportunity Knox. 
And since then, of course, we 

975
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,000
have always been very close and 
we have danced a lot together. 

976
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,000
We did the Bonoville group 
together for many years. 

977
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:04,040
Then it was kind of AI got to 
what you call it a skill by 

978
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:05,600
like. 
There was a fork in the. 

979
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:09,560
Room yes, when he became 
director his two first season he

980
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:13,240
still had kiss Moralo as his 
associate director and he asked 

981
00:56:13,240 --> 00:56:16,440
me if I would then when she 
finished if I would take that 

982
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,800
job. 
And there I of course I had to 

983
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:23,600
choose because already at that 
time I had started to do a lot 

984
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:27,280
of things around Peter Schaufus 
had asked me to come and teach 

985
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:29,520
in. 
He was at that time with the 

986
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,280
English. 
I mean that time was still 

987
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:38,080
Festival Ballet and it was yeah 
and the school there and I had 

988
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,800
helped him with some Bonneville 
productions, different place, 

989
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,720
Italy, Canada. 
So I all the time wanted to do 

990
00:56:45,720 --> 00:56:49,880
that too, and I wanted maybe 
then to have the freedom to be 

991
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,840
able to say yes to that and I 
knew to be the associate 

992
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:54,680
director then. 
You're locked. 

993
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:56,760
You are there and that will be 
your job. 

994
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:01,040
So it ended with that. 
That was in a way where I 

995
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:04,840
decided, OK, now when I finish 
dancing, I'm going to be 

996
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:08,120
freelance and I'm going to do 
all these travel around and 

997
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,880
stage Bonneville. 
Then it went totally different 

998
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:13,040
because I had hardly started 
that. 

999
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:14,800
Then I was asked to become 
director. 

1000
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,600
In no way. 
That was at that point you then 

1001
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,760
stopped performing and that. 
Yeah. 

1002
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,920
Well, I mean, there were some 
years in between Frank became 

1003
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:28,840
director, I think 85 or 86. 
And I had those years to think 

1004
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,080
about what to do. 
And also because at that time 

1005
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:38,240
the pension age of the dancers 
were 46, which was a problem of 

1006
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:41,600
course, in a way also a problem 
for the ballet director because 

1007
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,480
he had so many dancers who 
actually were just kind of 

1008
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:50,200
waiting to becomes 46 to get 
their full pension. 

1009
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:53,800
But it was not everything they 
could be used in anymore for 

1010
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,560
various reasons. 
Some already had some problems 

1011
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:59,800
physically and all this. 
So that was a problem. 

1012
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:03,760
And I wanted actually to stop 
when I was 38. 

1013
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,200
So I was asking. 
But at that time it was really 

1014
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:11,360
very tough because if I decided 
to stop, I would not get my 

1015
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:13,680
pension. 
I would get nothing until I was 

1016
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,520
67. 
So that was something thing. 

1017
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:19,200
I mean, I was at that time so 
determined. 

1018
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:21,360
So I was saying, okay, I don't 
care. 

1019
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,560
I I want to stop now. 
I want to do my thing. 

1020
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,880
So okay, this pension, I'm 
really happy that it didn't go 

1021
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,520
that way. 
Now when I look back, because 

1022
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,360
the director of the theater, 
Henrik Bearingly spare at that 

1023
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:38,680
time, he said to me, no, you 
wait, you take a leave of 

1024
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,120
absence, OK, for those two 
years. 

1025
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:44,040
I mean, you don't get the 
functions up spying. 

1026
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:46,480
So it'll be leave of absence 
without anything. 

1027
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,960
So like you have stopped when 
you were 38, but you are still 

1028
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:52,960
in the system. 
We are working very hard now to 

1029
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:56,680
get the pension age down to 40. 
We think it will happen in 

1030
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,760
within the next two years. 
So then when you are 40, you can

1031
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:01,680
finish and you can get your 
pension. 

1032
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,840
And that's how it then went. 
So I went on two years leave of 

1033
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:09,120
absence and that was where I 
started to stage so feed many 

1034
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:12,600
places I was in Boston so. 
You just. 

1035
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:14,360
So you just stopped because you 
want? 

1036
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:17,440
I wanted to do the other thing. 
Yes, it wasn't because no, there

1037
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,640
was pain or no, no, it was just 
because you, you there was an 

1038
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:21,440
interest. 
Yeah. 

1039
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:25,560
And I found it so fascinating 
and so interesting to stage the 

1040
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:26,560
Bonneville Ballet. 
Yeah. 

1041
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:31,120
And then I was asked, I did it 
in Munich for the Bavarian State

1042
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:34,280
Ballet, and I did it in Boston 
for Boston Ballet. 

1043
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:37,840
And it was great. 
And that was during those two 

1044
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,120
years when I had leave of 
absence and then when I became 

1045
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:43,680
40, Yep. 
And then I could go off, go on 

1046
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:46,560
pensions. 
And that same year I came to 

1047
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:50,560
Oslo to stay still feed, and 
they asked me then if I wanted 

1048
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:54,520
to take over the company. 
So there was my freedom. 

1049
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,200
Incredible. 
But I mean, it was of course 

1050
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:01,880
that I was asked just to do it 
for one year because they, the 

1051
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:05,320
director who was there at that 
time, had left. 

1052
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:09,640
Before time and that contract 
was still somebody had to fill 

1053
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:14,640
out that contract for that year,
I mean like a replacement, what 

1054
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:15,480
you call it? 
Yeah. 

1055
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:18,800
And then of course, they need to
find who is going to take over. 

1056
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:20,800
For real until the. 
Contract, it was like an an 

1057
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:26,360
interim kind of. 
So I thought, OK, one year and 

1058
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,040
the dancers want me and that's a
good starting point. 

1059
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,600
So let me just go one year, and 
that year became 12 years. 

1060
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:40,200
So that's how it can go. 
So there was not so much of the 

1061
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:42,680
freedom now. 
I mean, after 12 years 

1062
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:46,880
directorship in Norway and seven
years in Finland after that, now

1063
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:50,880
I have finally my freedom and 
I'm using it. 

1064
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:56,200
So I'm still very happy to 
travel to states, lesser feed to

1065
01:00:56,200 --> 01:01:00,280
do seminars. 
So it's never too late. 

1066
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:03,920
But were you director of what? 
There was a cross? 

1067
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:06,040
Am I not, am I not right in 
thinking that there was a 

1068
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,840
crossover, that you were 
director of Finland and Norway 

1069
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:10,000
at the same time? 
Yes. 

1070
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:14,800
How is that possible? 
Well, yes, you can ask. 

1071
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:18,000
I don't know either how that was
possible, but I think it was 

1072
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:22,440
possible because somehow they 
really wanted me in Finland and 

1073
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:25,600
I'd found out I was the right 
one for the for that position at

1074
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:28,600
that time. 
And at the same time my contract

1075
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,000
had not finished because they 
contacted me. 

1076
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,680
It, I mean, the two director 
jobs I've had, I've never 

1077
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:38,240
applied for them. 
I have been asked, which is very

1078
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:39,800
nice of course. 
Flattering, yeah. 

1079
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:44,000
So the first one when I was 
still in Oslo, I knew then that 

1080
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:48,200
I would finish because after the
third renewal over how much it 

1081
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:52,560
was, I said this is now the end.
So now we have to find one after

1082
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,840
when I finish that maybe people 
have heard because then they 

1083
01:01:55,840 --> 01:02:00,000
needed one in Finland. 
So I was contacted by people in 

1084
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,960
Finland to here if I was 
interested then because they had

1085
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,520
heard I was going to stop. 
And then I went and had 

1086
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:07,640
interviews and they were still 
interested. 

1087
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:11,280
And I said very clearly, but I'm
not free until there is a whole 

1088
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:14,960
more year. 
And then they accepted that I 

1089
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:19,000
could be both place. 
And then it, it was difficult. 

1090
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:23,400
And when I look back at it now, 
I think it was not the best 

1091
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:28,400
start for me or for the dancers 
or for everyone in Finland that 

1092
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:30,240
I was so much away in the 
beginning. 

1093
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:35,120
I had to go back and forth and I
had a ballet master who was then

1094
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:38,160
engaged by me and who took care 
of the daily work. 

1095
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:40,880
But it's not the same. 
Of course, everybody wants the 

1096
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:43,600
director to. 
To see the face of someone. 

1097
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:48,120
So I think it put too much 
pressure also on the ballet 

1098
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:51,800
master and on the people in the 
in the staff. 

1099
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:56,240
But I finished a little earlier 
because then they had decided in

1100
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,480
Oslo who was going to be the new
director, which was Espen 

1101
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:01,520
Gillian, and he was free to 
come. 

1102
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:05,000
So instead of going all the way 
to the end of the season, I 

1103
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:09,520
think we kind of by the 1st of 
April or so that season, then he

1104
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:13,680
took over and I could go to 
Finland and be there full time. 

1105
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:19,480
So, but it was, it was amazing 
that it was possible to do. 

1106
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:24,480
And they, they never complained.
But I mean, not in Finland. 

1107
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:27,760
I think maybe in Oslo. 
It was more difficult in Oslo in

1108
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,760
many ways, because I know it 
myself. 

1109
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:34,280
I mean, the situation is if you 
know the one whose director is 

1110
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:37,600
leaving and you already know 
who's going to be the new one. 

1111
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:40,680
Yeah, actually all the dancers 
are waiting for the new one. 

1112
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:42,920
I mean, of course, yes, you 
just, you are just there. 

1113
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,280
But I mean, they are not going 
to come come to you anymore. 

1114
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:48,920
They're not gonna, they are 
gonna waiting for the new one to

1115
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,760
come. 
So I felt myself that okay, it's

1116
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,280
better as soon as Espen can then
take over. 

1117
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,520
It's better because he's the one
they want to relate to now. 

1118
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:00,600
Not to me anymore. 
Yeah, of course. 

1119
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:05,320
So. 
You've done so many different 

1120
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:07,320
parts of the dance world with 
dancing. 

1121
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:11,120
We're teaching Bourneville, with
giving seminars on Bourneville, 

1122
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:13,360
with being a director, with 
being a choreographer. 

1123
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:17,080
What did you really love about 
being Director of Accompanying? 

1124
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:21,320
The work with the dancers. 
Unfortunately, as a director, I 

1125
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:24,680
realized and more and more that 
you have to go to so many 

1126
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:29,160
meetings that you get less and 
less contact with where you 

1127
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,600
really want to be. 
Because the work with the 

1128
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:35,640
dancers, of course, not only the
direct, but actually to see them

1129
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:41,160
develop in roles, to know that 
maybe this ballet will be very 

1130
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:44,480
good for this person. 
And then see how I mean, this, I

1131
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:47,400
think was very exciting. 
And the contact with the 

1132
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:51,160
audience, I must say, I've 
always loved to be in contact 

1133
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,400
with the audience. 
As you can hear, I like to talk,

1134
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:01,840
so doing lectures has always 
been part of what I like to do. 

1135
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:05,560
And when I was in Oslo I already
started something that is now a 

1136
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,920
fashion everywhere. 
Before each performance I made 

1137
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:12,080
an intro talk. 
One hour before I was sitting in

1138
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:15,720
the little foyer and everyone 
who wanted could just come in 

1139
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:18,200
and sit and listen. 
A nice book for half an hour 

1140
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:22,120
about the evenings program and a
little background story and who 

1141
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:26,240
the dancers were and how the 
work is a dancer and all this. 

1142
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:30,600
And I did it for every 
performance in all the 12 years.

1143
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,960
Wow. 
And I love that and I've got so 

1144
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:36,920
many. 
I got so much positive feedback 

1145
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:40,320
also from audience who still 
still now when I come and visit 

1146
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:44,080
in new Opera House in Oslo, some
come and say, I still remember 

1147
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:47,200
these, these talks before the IT
was so good. 

1148
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:50,440
I was to so many of them and. 
What is it that you like it? 

1149
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:52,440
What is this that you like about
the talking? 

1150
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:55,880
Is it sharing knowledge or? 
I think it's sharing knowledge 

1151
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:59,600
and the feeling that you 
actually tell the people you 

1152
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:02,000
talk to something that they 
didn't know and they hadn't. 

1153
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:07,240
I mean, they suddenly some you 
open up some door that and they 

1154
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:09,880
are fascinated by it. 
And sometimes they could ask a 

1155
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:11,600
lot of questions. 
That was nice. 

1156
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:13,280
Sometimes they didn't say a 
word. 

1157
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:16,680
I mean, it was very different 
also, and I love that. 

1158
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,240
I mean, sometimes there was a 
lot of children and then you 

1159
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:23,000
have to adapt to that and 
sometimes maybe they said only 

1160
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:28,320
like 5-6 people there and I, I 
like that very much. 

1161
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:31,440
So I could not do it the same 
way in Finland because of the 

1162
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:34,400
language. 
So that was something I missed 

1163
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:37,960
in Finland in a way to have that
direct contact with the 

1164
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,280
audience. 
It always had to be translated 

1165
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:45,240
and OK, it could be done in 
English, but it was still not 

1166
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:48,040
the same. 
So that is one part where I felt

1167
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:49,560
is nice. 
Of course, what I like as a 

1168
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:54,000
director is that you can decide 
and people and people listen to 

1169
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:56,920
you. 
Because that was the first thing

1170
01:06:56,920 --> 01:07:00,960
when I was not director anymore.
I realized, okay, now they 

1171
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:02,880
actually don't listen to me 
anymore. 

1172
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:04,360
And they don't, they don't have 
to. 

1173
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:10,040
So I thought that was very nice.
No one listens to me. 

1174
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:14,880
But then of course there is also
this, the hard things about 

1175
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:18,280
being director, because you have
so much responsibility for so 

1176
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:24,040
many people's life and future. 
And you know already from the 

1177
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:27,600
beginning that you will have to 
make some people disappointed, 

1178
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:30,800
some people angry, some people 
really sad, some. 

1179
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,840
I mean, all this I've always 
found was really hard, of 

1180
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:37,920
course, to deal with. 
Of course, even if you know 

1181
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:39,680
that, that's part of the job and
IT. 

1182
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:42,760
Doesn't change the fact that 
you're because what's different 

1183
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:46,960
about ballet dancing is that 
you're not just saying, oh, 

1184
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:48,400
sorry, you don't have a job 
anymore. 

1185
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:50,960
It's also, you know, it's 
people's passion, it's their 

1186
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:52,360
life. 
It's a life. 

1187
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:56,480
I mean that that's no, it's, 
it's so much more than just a 

1188
01:07:56,560 --> 01:07:57,760
job. 
So yeah, that's that. 

1189
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:00,360
I can imagine what must be so 
incredibly difficult. 

1190
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:04,440
So that that's really difficult.
I think, I must say I'm happy 

1191
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:06,440
now that I'm not director 
anymore. 

1192
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:10,200
And I don't think it's becoming 
easier to be director nowadays. 

1193
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:14,240
I mean, it's also harder, I 
think to be director who says 

1194
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:17,600
that I'm the one who decides 
because you don't anymore. 

1195
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:21,520
I mean, now there are so many 
fractions and so many people 

1196
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:24,520
that has to agree and has to be 
discussed. 

1197
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:28,680
With and it has to, yes. 
And it has to be evaluated and 

1198
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:32,319
has to be. 
So in the end, I think being a 

1199
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:36,399
director today is not one who 
can just decide what is 

1200
01:08:36,399 --> 01:08:39,680
happening. 
So I was more happy because 

1201
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:43,080
still in my time I think I could
make many decisions. 

1202
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:46,040
And of course it was always most
fun in the first years of your 

1203
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:48,240
directorship. 
Yeah, because there they listen 

1204
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:49,920
more to you than the later 
years. 

1205
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:56,920
One of my big things that I have
to mention always because in no 

1206
01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:01,439
in Oslo that we did a very big 
tour in the north of Norway. 

1207
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:04,520
Oh wow. 
Which was an amazing event 

1208
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:10,439
because we were took the whole 
company away from Oslo for 1 1/2

1209
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:14,960
months I think it was and 
visiting all small cities that 

1210
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:18,800
was north of Trondheim. 
So everything above the Arctic 

1211
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:21,399
Circle. 
Yes, it was all the North Norway

1212
01:09:21,399 --> 01:09:25,960
who very seldom sees ballet, of 
course, and who also very seldom

1213
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:30,399
goes down to Oslo to see ballet.
So that was a very special thing

1214
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:33,960
and we knew already from 
beforehand it's not going to be 

1215
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:38,240
easy because they will not have 
that relation to ballet that 

1216
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:42,520
they will necessarily come 
running to see the the National 

1217
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,840
Ballet from Oslo. 
So we had to find a way how to 

1218
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:50,640
get an audience and what we did,
which I still think was really 

1219
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:53,800
clever, but it was also, I mean,
very demanding. 

1220
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:57,640
In each city we visited 18 
cities. 

1221
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:00,960
In each cities we had a world 
premiere that was done 

1222
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:04,840
especially for that city in 
collaboration with someone from 

1223
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:07,320
the city. 
It could be either their local 

1224
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:12,880
band, their local ballet school,
their local singer who was a 

1225
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:17,760
chorus or we all the places we 
asked what what is your? 

1226
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:20,360
Who do you have here that you 
are very proud of? 

1227
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:22,200
Is that's. 
A great idea. 

1228
01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:24,920
And then we collaborated with 
them. 

1229
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:28,880
I mean, it was world premieres 
it they were only like 1012 

1230
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:31,400
minutes long. 
Yeah, But we had full houses 

1231
01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:34,160
everywhere because of course 
they came to see there. 

1232
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:37,000
There was an interest. 
There was, and then they got a 

1233
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:40,240
little bit of the ballet also, 
and yeah, liked it or didn't 

1234
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:43,880
like it or whatever, but we got 
an audience and it was amazing. 

1235
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:46,080
I mean that collaboration. 
That, of course, was a. 

1236
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:51,160
Big, big, big preparation period
to do all these different 

1237
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:53,400
places. 
And I remember because I 

1238
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:57,600
choreographed three of them. 
One of them was we opened in 

1239
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:01,480
Kautukaino, which is a big Sami 
town in the north of Norway. 

1240
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:05,800
OK, where I mean actually in the
audience they were more 

1241
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:08,080
colourful dress than we were on 
stage. 

1242
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:11,000
They were in their wonderful 
Sammy costumes, yes. 

1243
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:14,240
And they had a chorus that was 
very famous. 

1244
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:17,440
They do this yoke. 
It's a special way of singing 

1245
01:11:17,440 --> 01:11:19,440
like yoke. 
It's a little bit like. 

1246
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:22,040
Also you have in Tyrolean that 
you. 

1247
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:24,040
Oh, like yodeling? 
Like yodeling? 

1248
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:27,560
Yes, it's a kind of yodeling. 
It is called yoke, and they have

1249
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:32,600
a whole chorus who does yoke. 
So I should choreograph to one 

1250
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:34,560
piece that that chorus used to 
sing. 

1251
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:39,720
So I got it on a videotape, on 
a, on a cassette tape. 

1252
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:44,440
So I had that and it was not 
easy, but I mean, we worked on 

1253
01:11:44,440 --> 01:11:47,320
it and it was a big group piece 
because it should be the opening

1254
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:50,280
piece when we were in Kotokano. 
So it was almost the whole 

1255
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:53,640
company dancing in it. 
So we choreographed it was 

1256
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:55,280
great. 
And then of course we came to 

1257
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:56,920
Kaoto Kaino. 
And then you should have the 

1258
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:59,680
first rehearsal together with 
because the chorus should sing 

1259
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:01,680
live. 
And then we realized that 

1260
01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:04,720
actually it's a kind of 
improvisation anyway. 

1261
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:08,920
Oh my. 
I mean, not totally, but still 

1262
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:11,680
it can vary so much. 
So when we heard it like. 

1263
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:16,120
This is not what we created. 
And recognize what's this and 

1264
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:19,560
and that was and it was kind of 
two days before the premiere. 

1265
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:24,840
So so there were a lot of 
amazing experience on that tour,

1266
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:26,400
I must say. 
Incredible it. 

1267
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:30,040
Was one of the things that I'm 
very proud of that we did during

1268
01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:31,920
my time. 
And it was some of my first 

1269
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:32,600
years. 
Yeah. 

1270
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:36,160
Because of course there was also
a little bit of resistance also 

1271
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:39,120
among the dancers, some dancers.
Is that artistic? 

1272
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:41,360
We're going to dance. 
I mean some place we dance in a 

1273
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:47,200
little gym hall and we danced in
in a sila tank like where they 

1274
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:49,480
do the herrings. 
Oh, OK, yeah. 

1275
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:53,480
All kind of different places. 
We were dancing and then is that

1276
01:12:53,480 --> 01:12:55,920
artistic? 
Well, what is artistic? 

1277
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:59,760
You are artists, what you do, 
you are sharing your artistry 

1278
01:12:59,880 --> 01:13:02,640
with people who maybe would 
never have experienced it. 

1279
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:06,000
So we do it in little odd places
and maybe you can't do your 

1280
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:08,880
triple period there, but. 
You can tell your story. 

1281
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:12,200
Yes, exactly. 
Wow, that's fantastic. 

1282
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:19,440
So you have gone around the 
world staging Silfeed to many, 

1283
01:13:19,440 --> 01:13:21,760
many, many, many, many, many, 
many companies. 

1284
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:26,360
Do you think there is a specific
thing that you always have to 

1285
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:29,400
say to every company? 
Is there some something that the

1286
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:33,000
majority of companies don't do 
in other performances that they 

1287
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:35,520
need to do when they then start 
doing a Bourneville Ballet? 

1288
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:39,320
Yes. 
I mean, of course, dance wise, 

1289
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:42,720
there's always a lot of things 
that you have to say because of 

1290
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:46,320
the Bonneville style. 
It's so much more fluid. 

1291
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:50,680
I mean, to connect the steps 
instead of separate them because

1292
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:54,880
many dancers today are so used 
to kind of in a way separate. 

1293
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:59,360
You show us jump instead of 
making it more sentence, a whole

1294
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:01,880
sentence. 
And that I think, but it's 

1295
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:04,960
something that everybody can get
quite quickly if they know what 

1296
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:08,680
to work on. 
What is always, no matter where 

1297
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:12,200
I state it's the most difficult 
is the pantomime. 

1298
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:15,880
I mean the conversations with 
the mime, the gestures, the 

1299
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:19,440
gestures and the way, I mean, 
just the way how you are 

1300
01:14:19,440 --> 01:14:23,200
standing on your leg when you do
pantomime, that it should not be

1301
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:25,720
an artist artificial ballet 
position. 

1302
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:28,440
You should actually stand more 
natural on your legs. 

1303
01:14:28,440 --> 01:14:29,560
It's. 
Not a Porter bra. 

1304
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:34,200
No, and every gesture has a 
meaning and you have to 

1305
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:36,840
accentuate. 
It cannot just be floating 

1306
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:39,520
movements with a hand. 
You have to know exactly what 

1307
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:43,640
are the stops of the movement 
with a little accentuation and 

1308
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:47,760
where you are looking. 
Yes, because that is sometime 

1309
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:52,200
also because when dancers get a 
little embarrassed about the 

1310
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:55,560
pantomime because they're not 
used to it, they tend to go very

1311
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:58,800
much into themselves and they 
look down into the floor, Right.

1312
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:04,040
And to force them to look to 
each other, to use the eyes also

1313
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:07,200
out to the audience when you 
mime that this is something that

1314
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:10,520
I always have to use sometime, 
no matter where. 

1315
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:14,720
And I mean, especially of 
course, in Asia, because there 

1316
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:18,760
is a culture where you probably 
you don't really look in the 

1317
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:20,280
eyes. 
That's embarrassing. 

1318
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:24,240
And it's not, it's not polite. 
So they have to, in a way, cross

1319
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:27,760
some borders in themselves to be
able to do it. 

1320
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:31,680
And one has to be very sensitive
also in the way you have to 

1321
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:35,160
teach it. 
Because I understand that this 

1322
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:37,600
is something that actually is 
quite. 

1323
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:40,520
Very is not in their culture at 
all. 

1324
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:44,960
So, so those things, I mean, my 
experience is it takes much 

1325
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:48,400
longer to stage the mime scenes 
and the action scenes than the 

1326
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:50,640
real dance scenes. 
And that's interesting. 

1327
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:54,960
But that's also what I find is 
the exciting thing about staging

1328
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:55,920
these ballets. 
Yeah. 

1329
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:59,200
Because in the end, every good 
dancer can do the steps. 

1330
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:02,640
I mean they are not that 
difficult that not a good dancer

1331
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:05,200
in good shape with a good 
classical back back. 

1332
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:08,240
Can do the. 
Yeah, they can do it, but the 

1333
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:13,480
MIME is something different. 
It's something that I loved 

1334
01:16:13,480 --> 01:16:18,160
doing at the pantomime and 
Tivoli learning all these old 

1335
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:22,240
comedy Dell latte pantomimes and
then also doing seal feed with 

1336
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:25,200
Peter Bobendixon, yes, because 
he was great at teaching the 

1337
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:28,680
mimes yes and that whole exactly
what you're saying looking in 

1338
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:30,880
the eye. 
I think lots of dancers 

1339
01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:32,600
listening out there. 
So listen up. 

1340
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:36,040
Lots of dancers out there do 
think that it's part of the 

1341
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:38,800
choreography and it's not it's 
we've now stopped dancing. 

1342
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:41,520
We're now having a conversation 
and you have to think about your

1343
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:45,040
mimes being your words. 
And so you wouldn't talk to 

1344
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:47,600
someone and not look at them. 
You would you would look them in

1345
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:50,880
the eye and also then you would 
listen to what they're saying 

1346
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:52,400
back to you. 
Exactly. 

1347
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:57,000
I mean, that's another very 
common fault to want to do it 

1348
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:01,480
too fast not to let the person 
finish whatever is. 

1349
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:05,200
And then you answer like you 
should do in real life, of 

1350
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:08,480
course. 
But it's interesting that it's 

1351
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:12,600
I, I see very often that you 
just want to get over over with 

1352
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:13,800
it. 
It feels like. 

1353
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:17,440
So you, the other person has not
even finished his last gesture 

1354
01:17:17,440 --> 01:17:20,480
or her last gesture. 
And then you want to answer 

1355
01:17:20,480 --> 01:17:22,760
before you have heard actually 
what was the question. 

1356
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:25,000
Because they want to get on with
the steps? 

1357
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:26,480
Yes, Because they feel 
comfortable there. 

1358
01:17:26,480 --> 01:17:29,560
So that is something, and I 
mean, my latest experience, 

1359
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:33,240
which was in Philadelphia, where
I was just in April, it was 

1360
01:17:33,440 --> 01:17:37,640
really, really nice because the 
dancers actually thought it was 

1361
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:40,160
a good challenge for them. 
They were not against it. 

1362
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:43,800
They also admitted that this was
different for them. 

1363
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:47,040
And they, in the beginning, they
didn't feel comfortable about 

1364
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:47,280
it. 
Yeah. 

1365
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:50,400
But then I think and then you 
have to kind of create an 

1366
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:53,400
atmosphere that they start to 
feel more comfortable, 

1367
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:56,600
comfortable and dare to to go 
for it. 

1368
01:17:56,720 --> 01:17:59,120
Think it we got a good result 
there. 

1369
01:17:59,440 --> 01:18:02,560
But you need time and it's not 
always you have time when you 

1370
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:05,680
are just staging a ballet. 
You have just those weeks, Yes. 

1371
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:09,480
And sometimes it's very nice if 
it's possible to come on 

1372
01:18:09,480 --> 01:18:13,320
beforehand for a short period, 
maybe to do a few things to. 

1373
01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:16,080
Give to. 
Give the dancers idea about what

1374
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:20,240
is it you're gonna and then come
back and then they are already 

1375
01:18:20,240 --> 01:18:22,920
kind of prepared on a little 
higher level. 

1376
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:26,400
And then if you just get it all 
on your head, steps and music 

1377
01:18:26,480 --> 01:18:30,440
and character and I'm and you 
have to perform it in three 

1378
01:18:30,440 --> 01:18:32,400
weeks from now. 
Yeah, because, you know, 

1379
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:36,320
nowadays when when ballet 
companies are doing a Jerome 

1380
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:39,440
Robbins piece, a Bonneville 
piece, a Balanchine piece, a way

1381
01:18:39,440 --> 01:18:42,440
McGregor piece, these people are
coming in to stage or 

1382
01:18:42,440 --> 01:18:45,840
choreograph a ballet. 
And all of the the genres and 

1383
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:48,440
the styles and techniques are 
completely different. 

1384
01:18:48,440 --> 01:18:51,800
And there's no time to focus in 
on, OK, what is this? 

1385
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:55,160
The McGregor technique is just 
learn the steps, learn the show,

1386
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:57,520
perform. 
And they're all very, very, very

1387
01:18:57,520 --> 01:18:59,320
different. 
Yes, definitely. 

1388
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:02,160
And of course, many 
choreographers start now, I 

1389
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:07,960
think to demand to have a little
time to do workshop with the 

1390
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:11,400
dance before. 
Yeah, and I understand, I think 

1391
01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:16,480
exactly as you say, because now 
there's so many different styles

1392
01:19:16,480 --> 01:19:21,080
and ways of performing within 
what we call ballet. 

1393
01:19:21,160 --> 01:19:22,800
Yes. 
Yeah, because back in the, I 

1394
01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:25,880
mean, way back in the day, 
usually the majority of your 

1395
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:28,040
repertoire was done, was 
choreographed maybe by the 

1396
01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:29,840
director. 
Yes, like way back when. 

1397
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:31,640
Yeah, that's right. 
That's not where we are 

1398
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:34,480
nowadays. 
And of course, already in my 

1399
01:19:34,480 --> 01:19:38,600
time it started because, I mean 
with flaming Flint, of course we

1400
01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:41,480
got a lot of flaming Flint 
ballets, but we also got a lot 

1401
01:19:41,480 --> 01:19:44,840
of choreographers from abroad 
coming, having very different 

1402
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:46,960
styles and different ways of 
working. 

1403
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:51,360
And it was exciting. 
So we got to know each other. 

1404
01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:55,000
Yes. 
So now we're finally there. 

1405
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:59,600
We got to know each other in 
Tivoli at the Pantomime Theatre,

1406
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:03,080
as it was Tivoli Ballet Theatre 
as it is now known. 

1407
01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:07,520
Because you were choreographing 
ballets at the theatre and you 

1408
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:11,080
had already done, you had done 2
ballets by that. 

1409
01:20:11,360 --> 01:20:14,320
You had done 2 ballets before I 
came. 

1410
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:16,840
Yes, that's right. 
I think we've done one that 

1411
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:20,000
hasn't been done since its 
creation. 

1412
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:22,360
That was called Love in the Dust
Spin. 

1413
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:25,200
Yes, that was a combination of 
three hands. 

1414
01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:27,160
Christian Anderson. 
Yes, fairy tales. 

1415
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:29,000
And then we have done some 
Belina. 

1416
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:31,120
Thumbelina. 
Yeah, because I came the second 

1417
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:32,600
year of Thumbelina. 
Right. 

1418
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:33,280
Yeah. 
Yes. 

1419
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:36,080
So firstly, how did you get that
job? 

1420
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:42,440
Yeah, well, it was, it came down
from, I mean it, it was really 

1421
01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:46,480
also for me a big surprise. 
I was in Oslo and I was called 

1422
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:51,200
by last lips to was by the CEO 
of the director of the whole 

1423
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:56,600
Tivoli Garden and he asked me if
I would be interested in, I mean

1424
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:59,640
he knew my love for the 
pantomime theatre. 

1425
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:02,600
As I said, I was there from a 
child when my father was 

1426
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,280
director. 
I feel a very close connection 

1427
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:07,480
to the theatre. 
But then of course having been 

1428
01:21:07,480 --> 01:21:12,000
in Norway already then for quite
many years, because we are now 

1429
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:15,560
in year 2000, I think I was 
almost finished with my period 

1430
01:21:16,240 --> 01:21:18,840
in Norway, but I was still there
as director. 

1431
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:22,480
And he asked would you be 
interested in doing a ballet for

1432
01:21:22,480 --> 01:21:24,320
Tiwari in 2001? 
Yes. 

1433
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:26,280
Could I? 
Yes, of course, but what? 

1434
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:26,800
What? 
Yes. 

1435
01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:30,760
Well, he says it's kind of a 
there is a theme and it has to 

1436
01:21:30,760 --> 01:21:32,920
be enhanced Christian Anderson 
story. 

1437
01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:36,920
Well, but that sounds very good 
to have half hour ballet story. 

1438
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:40,200
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. 
And then he said and then we 

1439
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:42,200
have already chosen the 
designer. 

1440
01:21:42,400 --> 01:21:45,840
Okay, said well, but I mean, I 
guess I can work with anyone, so

1441
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:47,720
that's interesting. 
Who is that? 

1442
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:51,160
Well, that's Queen Margaret of 
Denmark. 

1443
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:54,480
A little bit of silence in the 
other end of the phone there 

1444
01:21:54,480 --> 01:21:57,760
when you said that, because I 
hadn't really expected that. 

1445
01:21:57,960 --> 01:22:01,640
No, of course I knew that by 
then she had already done a 

1446
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:04,720
design for a folk tale. 
At the Royal Danish, yes. 

1447
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:08,160
At the Royal Danish and I knew 
that Frank Anderson had been 

1448
01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:12,000
working with her, so it was not 
a new thing for me to know that 

1449
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:15,120
she was actually doing an 
interesting doing design. 

1450
01:22:15,240 --> 01:22:19,240
And she was also very all Danish
people knew that she she did. 

1451
01:22:19,480 --> 01:22:21,880
She was interested in art and 
painted, and everybody knew she 

1452
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:24,720
was artistic. 
But to know then that she was 

1453
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:28,960
the one that I was going to work
with was just a little surprise.

1454
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:31,920
But of course I said yes, yes, 
of course. 

1455
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:35,120
I mean, it didn't make it less 
interesting. 

1456
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:40,120
And I must say I was really 
very, very curious how that 

1457
01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:42,200
first of course thing then would
be. 

1458
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:44,920
Because then of course, when I 
had said, yes, I'm interested, 

1459
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:47,720
of course we should bring the 
parts partners together. 

1460
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:50,360
So the. 
Queen was going to be brought 

1461
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:54,320
together and it was not actually
yet decided which hands 

1462
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:57,200
Christian Andersen, but Queen 
Margaret really wanted to do the

1463
01:22:57,200 --> 01:23:00,760
one about the one that's called 
Cast the Falcon, which is about 

1464
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:03,880
the the spinning. 
The spinning top in the ball. 

1465
01:23:03,960 --> 01:23:05,840
That was the story that she 
wanted. 

1466
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:10,160
So we met there and I had been, 
I had already read the story. 

1467
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:12,320
And I said, well, it's a 
wonderful story, but there are 

1468
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:17,200
only two characters in it. 
And I mean, there are 16 dancers

1469
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:21,560
at the Pantomimes Theatre, so I 
think we need some more 

1470
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:22,400
characters. 
Yeah. 

1471
01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:27,560
So I already had an idea about 
then maybe one could combine 

1472
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:30,080
more stories. 
Yeah, some short stories too. 

1473
01:23:30,160 --> 01:23:32,480
But that I, of course, I had to 
present to the Queen. 

1474
01:23:33,160 --> 01:23:37,480
So and I must say, from the 
first moment it was amazing. 

1475
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:42,720
Yeah, to work with her because 
she was totally humble as a as a

1476
01:23:43,360 --> 01:23:46,480
designer. 
I mean, not coming in as I'm the

1477
01:23:46,480 --> 01:23:52,200
queen and I decide not at all 
and full of ideas, which was 

1478
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:55,840
always, I mean then of course it
became 5 ballets through the 

1479
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:58,600
time. 
What I found was one of the most

1480
01:23:58,680 --> 01:24:02,520
wonderful things was always the 
process before when we had those

1481
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:05,840
meetings together before to talk
about how are we going to do 

1482
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:08,680
this? 
How many sceneries do we need? 

1483
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:11,040
How could it change? 
How can we solve the thing with 

1484
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:18,680
the big fish in the Yeah, and I 
mean all these kind of thing. 

1485
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:22,400
How can we create that? 
It looks like some bolini is 

1486
01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:27,240
flying with a with a bird and 
and she always had wonderful 

1487
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:29,680
ideas. 
And immediately I mean that what

1488
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:33,160
I loved then when she got an 
idea then oh, she find a napkin 

1489
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:37,640
or something on there and 
started to Draw Something down 

1490
01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:40,800
on what she could find on the 
table or demonstrate. 

1491
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:43,520
And it was one could discuss 
with her. 

1492
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:47,000
She was not so fond in the 
beginning of my idea with 

1493
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:49,560
combining. 
That was a little resistance I 

1494
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:51,720
felt, because she was so focused
on. 

1495
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:55,040
She wanted this. 
That was a fairy tale she 

1496
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:57,960
wanted. 
So then I wrote to her then. 

1497
01:24:57,960 --> 01:25:00,880
I mean, she was not against, but
I could feel she was not 

1498
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:05,000
convinced. 
And she was very polite. 

1499
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:05,840
Yeah. 
Of course. 

1500
01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:09,040
Yeah. 
So then I had promised I would 

1501
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:12,600
write to her, and then I made 
the kind of a synopsis where I 

1502
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:17,360
had combined these three fairy 
tales, and then she loved it. 

1503
01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:19,760
Perfect. 
And I think especially the one 

1504
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:22,680
because one of them, which I 
think is the one with a needle, 

1505
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:24,640
it has the five fingers. 
Yes. 

1506
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:28,360
And that idea with the five 
fingers she really loved. 

1507
01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:30,640
Yeah. 
And she could see how she could 

1508
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:32,920
make that really funny with 
costumes and. 

1509
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:34,480
Yeah, make. 
The five fingers. 

1510
01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:38,240
Different personalities. 5 
different personalities and ways

1511
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:41,120
of that dancing. 
So that was the start. 

1512
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:45,200
And then I mean from there it 
was just really fun every time. 

1513
01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:49,440
And I love these years. 
And then the first one was it 

1514
01:25:49,440 --> 01:25:53,720
was lumpy music that James 
Praise was asked to arrange, 

1515
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:56,120
right? 
But already from the second one 

1516
01:25:56,120 --> 01:25:58,320
from Belina, he was asked to 
compose. 

1517
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:02,800
So then we became that little 
team with the Queen and James 

1518
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:06,760
Praise as a composer and then me
as a choreographer. 

1519
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:09,800
That has been so much fun. 
And then I mean to work at that 

1520
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:12,880
theatre is for me something 
special. 

1521
01:26:13,240 --> 01:26:17,560
The format of the theatre, the 
thing that is still like an old 

1522
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:20,840
fashioned theatre at everything,
Yes. 

1523
01:26:21,440 --> 01:26:26,640
Just having the smell. 
I mean, it's everything is like 

1524
01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:27,760
theatre should be. 
Yes. 

1525
01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:31,560
It's such a wonderful place 
combined with all my memories 

1526
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:34,520
since I danced there as a child.
I was the devil. 

1527
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:37,720
I became the devil. 
I even advanced to become an 

1528
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:42,200
Angel or a fair in the fairy 
tableau. 

1529
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:45,800
In the end, I danced there as a 
dancer for some seasons. 

1530
01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:49,840
I guessed it there when I danced
at the Royal Danish Ballet. 

1531
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:53,600
And I actually choreographed one
ballet there before the Hans 

1532
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:54,840
Christian end. 
Oh, really? 

1533
01:26:55,320 --> 01:26:56,960
I did. 
That was just. 

1534
01:26:57,080 --> 01:27:02,440
Oh, which, yeah, we were in the 
80s, Yes, 82, I think. 

1535
01:27:02,440 --> 01:27:06,000
OK, so I have a long history 
with the Pantomime Theatre. 

1536
01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:10,520
And then it was lovely then to 
be back in there in 2001 one and

1537
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:15,240
then the next one, 2005, 2007, 
2009 and 2013. 

1538
01:27:15,640 --> 01:27:17,880
Yeah. 
I mean, I was lucky enough to to

1539
01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:19,480
come in and be part of all of 
them. 

1540
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:25,840
Yes, fantastic to work with you.
But also, I mean, for me as a 

1541
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:29,440
non Danish person, obviously I 
respect that she is the queen of

1542
01:27:29,440 --> 01:27:32,720
Denmark, but I haven't grown up 
with her being my queen. 

1543
01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:36,000
So I have a very different 
relationship to yourself. 

1544
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:39,080
But also like the other dancers 
in the company who it is, their 

1545
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:41,000
queen sat right there doing the 
costumes. 

1546
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:43,320
It would be like, you know, 
Queen Elizabeth doing the 

1547
01:27:43,320 --> 01:27:47,200
costumes like it's I obviously 
there was a a huge respect, but 

1548
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:49,560
it was very different for me. 
So it's interesting to hear from

1549
01:27:49,560 --> 01:27:51,840
you who had to work that close 
with her. 

1550
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:53,680
Must be must have been at the 
beginning. 

1551
01:27:53,680 --> 01:27:56,320
Very nerve wracking. 
Yeah, it was nerve wracking for 

1552
01:27:56,320 --> 01:28:00,280
the first meeting, but thanks to
her way of being, it stopped 

1553
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:03,000
being nerve wracking it it 
started to be something that I 

1554
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:06,600
was always looking forward to. 
And of course you always feel 

1555
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:12,120
you have to behave in a certain 
way, not to cross any borders of

1556
01:28:12,160 --> 01:28:14,120
how how you can behave with a 
queen. 

1557
01:28:14,480 --> 01:28:17,560
I mean the thing about that you 
have to say in Danish you have 

1558
01:28:17,560 --> 01:28:22,080
to say D yes and not. 
Do yes, there's like a polite 

1559
01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:25,280
way of saying you. 
Yes, you don't you don't need to

1560
01:28:25,280 --> 01:28:27,920
say your Majesty or the Queen 
all the time. 

1561
01:28:28,040 --> 01:28:30,440
I mean, I was told from the 
beginning, you just if you have 

1562
01:28:30,440 --> 01:28:34,360
said it once, then after that 
you can just say D all the time 

1563
01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:39,000
and and she also says D back. 
So it's not that she says do to 

1564
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:41,040
you. 
No, no, So she keeps also that 

1565
01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:45,240
kind of respect and so and then 
sometime with we both noticed 

1566
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:50,320
without commenting on it when we
get really into discussions that

1567
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:55,960
sometimes comes a little do both
from me and from her and we just

1568
01:28:55,960 --> 01:29:00,040
make us if we don't hear it. 
I, I remember one of the, one of

1569
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:02,520
the biggest things I remember 
when I started is that we were 

1570
01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:07,800
told by Lars Lips that when she 
is here, she is your designer. 

1571
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:11,320
She, and that's from herself. 
She did not want to be the queen

1572
01:29:11,320 --> 01:29:13,920
when she was in the room. 
She wanted to be a designer. 

1573
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:16,360
So I'm going to come in, I'm 
going to sit here. 

1574
01:29:16,360 --> 01:29:18,520
And you know, when we were do 
our costume parades, for 

1575
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:21,280
example, when we're all the 
costumes are ready for the first

1576
01:29:21,280 --> 01:29:24,040
time, we all put them on and we 
all stand on stage 1 by 1. 

1577
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:27,080
You know, she'd just be sat 
there and sat next to you and 

1578
01:29:27,080 --> 01:29:28,760
all relaxed and we're all in the
same room. 

1579
01:29:28,760 --> 01:29:33,160
And the only way an outsider 
would may be able to tell that 

1580
01:29:33,160 --> 01:29:35,520
she was the queen was there 
would be 1 bodyguard right in 

1581
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:38,080
the corner somewhere. 
I don't know if that bodyguard 

1582
01:29:38,080 --> 01:29:40,080
could do anything. 
So he was so far away, and not 

1583
01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:41,320
really. 
Right. 

1584
01:29:41,720 --> 01:29:44,120
No, it's true. 
I mean, one forget right away 

1585
01:29:44,120 --> 01:29:47,320
also because of the way that she
herself was behaving. 

1586
01:29:47,320 --> 01:29:52,680
I mean, it was always great fun.
And I mean, one thing that I 

1587
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:56,840
will never forget in connection 
with my work with her was I 

1588
01:29:56,840 --> 01:30:00,280
think it was when we were trying
to find out what should be the 

1589
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:03,680
third ballet before we had 
decided it was going to be the 

1590
01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:06,880
tinderbox. 
I think then I was invited to 

1591
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:09,920
lunch at the Amelian Bowl. 
At the palace. 

1592
01:30:10,040 --> 01:30:12,800
At the palace, because we should
discuss which. 

1593
01:30:12,920 --> 01:30:15,960
Brainstorm. 
Should be and that was, I mean, 

1594
01:30:16,320 --> 01:30:19,920
amazing because it was only me. 
So I was sitting and then I 

1595
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:24,080
mean, the table was enormous, 
but I mean, we were not sitting 

1596
01:30:24,080 --> 01:30:26,440
at each end. 
We were actually sitting like at

1597
01:30:26,440 --> 01:30:30,040
the one corner of it. 
And then I'm being served. 

1598
01:30:30,040 --> 01:30:34,400
So and then after that going 
into the library and then she 

1599
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:36,480
read the story of Tinderbox for 
me. 

1600
01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:39,240
And she did it lovely because I 
mean, she was really 

1601
01:30:39,440 --> 01:30:41,800
impersonating all the different 
voices. 

1602
01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:45,200
The witch, there was all these 
characters and I was sitting, 

1603
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:48,600
dancing. 
My God, here I sit and the Queen

1604
01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:51,400
of Denmark is reading the same 
for me. 

1605
01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:55,040
This is. 
The Queen of Denmark, read your 

1606
01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:57,800
bedtime story. 
Yeah, and it was a lovely 

1607
01:30:57,800 --> 01:31:00,040
experience. 
And then I think that was when 

1608
01:31:00,040 --> 01:31:03,120
we decided that it should be 
that that story. 

1609
01:31:03,200 --> 01:31:06,080
Wow. 
And the other wonderful in 

1610
01:31:06,080 --> 01:31:07,440
memory. 
I mean, there's so many 

1611
01:31:07,440 --> 01:31:09,960
wonderful memories because I 
love her humor. 

1612
01:31:10,720 --> 01:31:14,400
She has a very special humor 
that has to do with words, how 

1613
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:16,160
she says things. 
I mean, I love it. 

1614
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:19,400
So I could just listen to her 
for hours. 

1615
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:23,800
But I remember because then I 
was very honored by when I 

1616
01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:27,160
finished in Finland, I got then 
rider course. 

1617
01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:30,040
Yes, you and normally. 
You only get that if you have 

1618
01:31:30,040 --> 01:31:33,760
been in Denmark soon so many 
years and you get it. 

1619
01:31:34,240 --> 01:31:36,560
But I got it in Finland when I 
finished there. 

1620
01:31:36,560 --> 01:31:41,040
So of course then I, I should go
like everybody will do when you 

1621
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:44,040
go and say thank you. 
So you are kind of signing up to

1622
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:47,160
go on audience to say thank you 
for it. 

1623
01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:52,000
So I was also there and I mean 
like everybody should and 

1624
01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:56,520
waiting and we were many people 
so waiting for my, my time. 

1625
01:31:56,600 --> 01:32:00,720
And then the moment I came in 
say, ah, I said, could I see 

1626
01:32:00,720 --> 01:32:02,800
you? 
Are you free tonight? 

1627
01:32:04,440 --> 01:32:06,920
Can you come? 
Because I have some hats or 

1628
01:32:06,920 --> 01:32:08,840
something. 
I I need to because we were in 

1629
01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:14,280
the process of the of the next 
production and I said, well, 

1630
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:16,280
that's amazing. 
I mean, I think it's not so 

1631
01:32:16,280 --> 01:32:19,320
often you get that kind of 
invitation when you come to an 

1632
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:23,280
audience. 
And then actually I came to her 

1633
01:32:23,400 --> 01:32:28,640
because she had in her palace a 
special part that was her little

1634
01:32:28,640 --> 01:32:32,120
workshop where she actually went
every Thursday evening. 

1635
01:32:32,120 --> 01:32:35,880
If she didn't have any official 
thing to do, she goes there and 

1636
01:32:35,880 --> 01:32:39,200
there she had a lot of things 
like materials that she had 

1637
01:32:39,200 --> 01:32:43,120
bought on her travels and there 
were all kind of on hats and 

1638
01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:46,840
veils and the jewelry. 
I mean, not a real jewelry like 

1639
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:52,600
fake Jew costume costume and an 
artificial flower things and all

1640
01:32:52,600 --> 01:32:55,440
this thing. 
It was like a little Aladdin 

1641
01:32:55,480 --> 01:32:58,320
cave there. 
Then I came there that evening 

1642
01:32:58,320 --> 01:33:01,400
and looked at those hats that 
you wanted me to look at for the

1643
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:03,480
bell. 
That was another wonderful 

1644
01:33:03,480 --> 01:33:05,960
experience. 
Walking in for your knighthood? 

1645
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:07,800
Oh, are you free tonight? 
Just need to. 

1646
01:33:08,200 --> 01:33:14,680
Just need to show you a hat. 
So it's so many lovely memories 

1647
01:33:14,680 --> 01:33:16,520
over these years. 
At any time. 

1648
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:19,920
I love to work at the Pantomime 
Theatre and I feel that 

1649
01:33:19,920 --> 01:33:23,800
atmosphere and all of you 
dancing there, it's, it's so 

1650
01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:26,560
great. 
I mean, it is something very 

1651
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:29,240
special and you know, I'm not 
there anymore as a dancer, but 

1652
01:33:29,240 --> 01:33:31,280
like. 
But you also must have memory. 

1653
01:33:31,280 --> 01:33:33,120
Exactly. 
From that time. 

1654
01:33:33,160 --> 01:33:36,560
Any dancer that has works there 
and has gone on to either retire

1655
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:39,040
or has gone to work somewhere 
else, everybody has such fond 

1656
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:42,520
memories of that place because 
it is like stepping into a time 

1657
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:44,560
machine. 
Because you know, the theatre 

1658
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:47,480
physically is run like it was 
when it was built. 

1659
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:51,240
You know, pulleys and ropes, 
doing all the scene changes and 

1660
01:33:51,240 --> 01:33:53,320
everything. 
But, you know, it's a small 

1661
01:33:53,320 --> 01:33:57,200
stage, the audience is outside, 
it's a rake stage. 

1662
01:33:57,760 --> 01:34:01,720
It's not a sprung floor. 
So it is, yeah, dancing back in 

1663
01:34:01,720 --> 01:34:03,480
the day. 
And it's very special and it is 

1664
01:34:03,480 --> 01:34:07,760
a very small family. 
Also, yeah, there's a family 

1665
01:34:07,760 --> 01:34:11,120
feeling about being there. 
And what was great, I mean about

1666
01:34:11,120 --> 01:34:14,680
your ballets that you did, was 
also, so we have the Queen of 

1667
01:34:14,680 --> 01:34:18,640
the country making the 
sonography and the costumes. 

1668
01:34:18,840 --> 01:34:22,480
We have yourself that we knew 
had a history with the theatre 

1669
01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:26,160
as a child and with your father,
but then also the composer. 

1670
01:34:26,160 --> 01:34:28,400
Yes. 
James Price, James Praiser. 

1671
01:34:28,400 --> 01:34:31,160
Yeah. 
It was his family that came over

1672
01:34:31,160 --> 01:34:34,280
from England all those years ago
and brought over the original 

1673
01:34:34,280 --> 01:34:36,400
pantomimes that they still 
perform to this day. 

1674
01:34:36,440 --> 01:34:37,400
Yeah. 
So it's. 

1675
01:34:37,400 --> 01:34:39,640
Just. 
Special, very special, those 

1676
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:42,120
Queen's ballets, and obviously 
those are little stories that 

1677
01:34:42,120 --> 01:34:43,920
the audiences don't. 
Know no exactly. 

1678
01:34:43,960 --> 01:34:47,080
But to be part of it, you're on 
stage, you're thinking, wow, 

1679
01:34:47,080 --> 01:34:48,600
this is really something 
special. 

1680
01:34:48,600 --> 01:34:49,920
Yeah, that's right. 
Yeah. 

1681
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:52,320
And it's those little things 
that you can tell at your 

1682
01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:54,440
seminars and and you can tell 
the audience. 

1683
01:34:54,440 --> 01:34:57,080
Those are the opportunities that
you have to, yeah, tell those 

1684
01:34:57,120 --> 01:35:00,400
little Easter eggs, those little
pearls of wisdom, those little 

1685
01:35:00,400 --> 01:35:02,880
stories that you know. 
So I'm walking past the theatre 

1686
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:06,120
and watching Thumbelina won't 
know that the Queen of Denmark 

1687
01:35:06,120 --> 01:35:09,080
did this. 
And yeah, yeah, I'm very happy 

1688
01:35:09,080 --> 01:35:12,800
that I my life took me on that 
journey and managed to get a 

1689
01:35:12,800 --> 01:35:15,760
piece of tibbling. 
Yes, that is something special, 

1690
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:21,400
yeah. 
So at the moment, where are you?

1691
01:35:21,560 --> 01:35:25,560
You are still travelling around 
doing staging, teaching. 

1692
01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:29,800
Busy lady always. 
I am to my own surprise, but 

1693
01:35:30,480 --> 01:35:33,280
pleasant surprise. 
Of course, I'm still very busy 

1694
01:35:33,440 --> 01:35:36,960
and every time I think so now, 
probably there will not be 

1695
01:35:36,960 --> 01:35:41,120
something for a long time. 
Then something pops up which is 

1696
01:35:41,120 --> 01:35:43,160
lovely. 
And of course, what I have been 

1697
01:35:43,560 --> 01:35:48,240
very happy for lately is that it
seems like the new director of 

1698
01:35:48,240 --> 01:35:53,440
the Royal Ballet, Amy Watson, 
has shown a special interest in 

1699
01:35:53,440 --> 01:35:57,920
now focusing on the Bonneville 
and maybe bringing a bit more 

1700
01:35:57,920 --> 01:36:00,360
Bonneville back into the 
company. 

1701
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:03,280
Fantastic. 
Also not only just bringing in 

1702
01:36:03,280 --> 01:36:08,040
the ballets, but also maybe an 
understanding of it by using 

1703
01:36:08,080 --> 01:36:12,920
people from my generation. 
Yes, I'm soon the oldest one who

1704
01:36:12,920 --> 01:36:17,520
is still alive and goes back to 
where I got it all from Hans 

1705
01:36:17,520 --> 01:36:20,800
Brano and Kirsten Rallo and 
Frank Anderson, Eva Klubo and 

1706
01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:24,760
Emily Vessel. 
And then nice that she wants to 

1707
01:36:24,760 --> 01:36:29,240
use our knowledge also have us 
as kind of mentors for the next 

1708
01:36:29,240 --> 01:36:32,520
generation that of course now I 
mean the future Bonoville 

1709
01:36:32,760 --> 01:36:36,440
belongs to the next generation 
and it's very important that 

1710
01:36:36,440 --> 01:36:40,280
they get as much luggage as they
can from us. 

1711
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:43,960
Of course they also have, I 
mean, I know from myself what I 

1712
01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:47,360
did, I got a lot from Hans Brano
and Kiss Marallo. 

1713
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:50,440
But of course through the years 
also becomes yours. 

1714
01:36:50,440 --> 01:36:56,080
You form it to your belief, 
because nobody knows exactly how

1715
01:36:56,360 --> 01:36:58,800
Bonoville wanted. 
There's a lot of things where 

1716
01:36:58,800 --> 01:37:02,800
you have to trust your instinct 
and your knowledge. 

1717
01:37:02,800 --> 01:37:04,760
Of course you can seek a lot of 
knowledge. 

1718
01:37:04,760 --> 01:37:08,440
You can read his books, you can 
read about the man, you can get 

1719
01:37:08,440 --> 01:37:12,080
a feeling of what did he want 
with his ballet, what did he not

1720
01:37:12,080 --> 01:37:14,720
want? 
And in that way, you can still 

1721
01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:18,040
know a lot about what will be 
the style, what would be on the 

1722
01:37:18,040 --> 01:37:21,840
style or not, right. 
But of course, in any way, for 

1723
01:37:21,840 --> 01:37:26,000
each person who is now passing 
it on, teaching or staging, it 

1724
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:29,240
will also be a personal, there 
will be a personal mark to it. 

1725
01:37:29,600 --> 01:37:32,280
That's how it should be. 
It's a living tradition. 

1726
01:37:32,640 --> 01:37:35,880
But I've been really happy now 
to be involved with the new 

1727
01:37:35,880 --> 01:37:40,080
staging of Camis and Brooks at 
the Royal Theatre that just had 

1728
01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:42,720
premiere last week. 
And it had not been performed 

1729
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:45,960
for 13 years, which means that 
most of the dancers in the 

1730
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:49,000
company didn't know it, have no 
relation to it. 

1731
01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:52,800
The Danish dancers who are now 
in the company, they were kids 

1732
01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:55,680
when it was last done. 
So it has been a really 

1733
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:59,040
interesting process. 
Together with Rosa Gadd, who was

1734
01:37:59,080 --> 01:38:02,560
a Bonneville student of mine, 
Yeah, who had a lovely career, 

1735
01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:04,600
also very good Bonneville 
dancer. 

1736
01:38:04,600 --> 01:38:08,680
So she is now one of those at 
the moment, together with 

1737
01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:12,440
Alexander Steger and also Thomas
Lone, Yeah. 

1738
01:38:12,440 --> 01:38:15,560
Who is still a little bit 
between those generations. 

1739
01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:17,640
Yes. 
And Henry Adamoose, who is 

1740
01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:21,240
working at the ballet school, 
they are kind of the ones now 

1741
01:38:21,240 --> 01:38:24,640
that will have the 
responsibility. 

1742
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:29,800
And of course, the more one can 
help them by giving them 

1743
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:33,800
whatever I have learned. 
And not to say then you have to 

1744
01:38:33,800 --> 01:38:37,880
copy it and do it the same. 
But I know how much it has 

1745
01:38:37,880 --> 01:38:41,120
helped me, especially now when 
I'm older and I think back, Oh 

1746
01:38:41,120 --> 01:38:45,160
my God, how much I learned from 
Hans Brano, from Kirsten Rallo, 

1747
01:38:45,320 --> 01:38:49,000
from Tony Lander, from Fred 
Bjorn Bjornsen, from my father. 

1748
01:38:49,400 --> 01:38:53,800
Also this great mime artist, 
Kirsten Simone, Paley Yakovsen, 

1749
01:38:53,880 --> 01:38:57,280
Nilskaylet, I mean, name them 
Henning Kronstam, of course. 

1750
01:38:57,600 --> 01:39:01,160
I mean, a lot of things that you
have learned from these people 

1751
01:39:01,160 --> 01:39:04,720
that maybe you don't think about
it while it's happening, but the

1752
01:39:04,720 --> 01:39:09,800
more you start to be the one who
has to pass on, you also realize

1753
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:13,400
how much you have got from the 
generation before. 100% and 

1754
01:39:13,400 --> 01:39:16,160
that's I think what's what's 
great because you know, Amy 

1755
01:39:16,160 --> 01:39:18,160
Watson is, is kind of my 
generation. 

1756
01:39:18,280 --> 01:39:22,640
There's also your Vani Ramos who
is over in Mexico and this 

1757
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:25,400
generation of director who are 
now taking over companies. 

1758
01:39:25,400 --> 01:39:28,400
There is this interest in the 
past and there is this interest 

1759
01:39:28,400 --> 01:39:31,320
that they got taught by their 
teachers that they want to pass 

1760
01:39:31,320 --> 01:39:33,880
on. 
And so her wanting to get this 

1761
01:39:33,880 --> 01:39:36,840
born and built interest back 
into the company is fantastic 

1762
01:39:36,880 --> 01:39:40,360
because yes, fine, we can, we 
can do new things, but let's not

1763
01:39:40,360 --> 01:39:43,320
throw away and let's not forget 
the great things that we've done

1764
01:39:43,320 --> 01:39:44,320
as well. 
Exactly. 

1765
01:39:44,480 --> 01:39:47,720
I mean, I really believe 
strongly in that you have to 

1766
01:39:47,720 --> 01:39:51,680
keep the connection with the 
past in order to develop and do 

1767
01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:54,800
something. 
And also I think it can be very 

1768
01:39:54,840 --> 01:39:58,960
inspiring also to dare to play a
little bit with the tradition, 

1769
01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:03,560
to do things, but only if you 
still know where it comes from, 

1770
01:40:03,560 --> 01:40:05,840
what it is. 
You change why you change it. 

1771
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:07,680
That's why we call it living 
tradition. 

1772
01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:11,480
It does change, but it doesn't. 
There's no cuts, no. 

1773
01:40:13,880 --> 01:40:16,600
We are getting to the end of our
interview and I have some quick 

1774
01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:21,520
little pop questions to ask you.
So let's start with #1 tell me, 

1775
01:40:21,520 --> 01:40:24,720
what is the most amazing venue 
you've ever performed at? 

1776
01:40:25,000 --> 01:40:29,240
Oh, I think I must say that was 
when we performed at the Bolshoi

1777
01:40:29,240 --> 01:40:30,640
Theatre. 
Oh wow, yeah. 

1778
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:34,000
And actually we did The 
Nutcracker where I did Clara 

1779
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:36,920
when we were on tour with the 
Royal Danish Ballet. 

1780
01:40:37,160 --> 01:40:41,120
To be on that stage was quite 
overwhelming. 

1781
01:40:41,440 --> 01:40:44,280
I can imagine all the history 
and the thing about what has 

1782
01:40:44,280 --> 01:40:48,240
happened there and to really be 
there and to dance yourself on 

1783
01:40:48,240 --> 01:40:51,440
that stage. 
I mean, yeah, I think that's 

1784
01:40:51,440 --> 01:40:54,720
probably, at least that's the 
one that comes into my mind 

1785
01:40:54,720 --> 01:40:58,280
first. 
Do you have or have you had 

1786
01:40:58,280 --> 01:41:00,840
growing up a favorite dancer to 
watch? 

1787
01:41:01,000 --> 01:41:06,400
Well, I think I'm the type that 
I like to have more than one 

1788
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:11,600
certain dancers I really love 
and admire for something and 

1789
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:15,920
others for something else. 
So it has really, really changed

1790
01:41:16,320 --> 01:41:19,440
through times. 
Of course, I I do remember 

1791
01:41:19,680 --> 01:41:22,160
amazing experiences with certain
dancers. 

1792
01:41:22,160 --> 01:41:26,840
For instance, seeing Baryshnikov
before he actually defected. 

1793
01:41:27,040 --> 01:41:30,880
When we were on that Russian 
tour, we saw him in what was at 

1794
01:41:30,880 --> 01:41:35,320
that time Leaning Grad 
performing in Don Queue, and it 

1795
01:41:35,320 --> 01:41:36,560
was amazing. 
Yeah. 

1796
01:41:36,760 --> 01:41:39,560
I mean, that was a dancer that 
just, I mean, what he did. 

1797
01:41:39,840 --> 01:41:42,120
And we had to wait all the way 
to the last act. 

1798
01:41:42,120 --> 01:41:44,240
There were five acts in that Don
queue. 

1799
01:41:44,240 --> 01:41:47,560
I think we were waiting very 
long to see, but that was worth 

1800
01:41:47,560 --> 01:41:50,000
it all. 
I mean that that was kind of an 

1801
01:41:50,000 --> 01:41:53,560
amazing experience. 
I have been very fascinated by a

1802
01:41:53,560 --> 01:41:56,920
dancer before I ever saw her 
dance, actually, which is 

1803
01:41:56,920 --> 01:42:00,240
interesting. 
But it is very much because of 

1804
01:42:00,240 --> 01:42:03,920
her looks, her story, what I 
found in my father's library or 

1805
01:42:03,920 --> 01:42:07,840
ballet books. 
And that was Maria Torshev, who 

1806
01:42:07,840 --> 01:42:11,400
was actually one of George 
Balanchine's wives before 

1807
01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:14,280
Tentacle Leclerc. 
She was a ballerina with a New 

1808
01:42:14,280 --> 01:42:17,440
York City ballet. 
But she then started to dance a 

1809
01:42:17,440 --> 01:42:21,760
lot with Eric Brune and she came
to Copenhagen finally. 

1810
01:42:22,040 --> 01:42:25,440
And that was I started to kind 
of look her up in books because 

1811
01:42:25,440 --> 01:42:29,040
I was fascinating by her looks 
and her story. 

1812
01:42:29,040 --> 01:42:32,640
And, and finally I got to see 
her dance because she came to 

1813
01:42:32,640 --> 01:42:35,200
guest with Eric Brune here in 
Copenhagen. 

1814
01:42:35,440 --> 01:42:39,320
And that was amazing. 
She was a a very special 

1815
01:42:39,320 --> 01:42:41,760
ballerina. 
But I've also, I mean, I have 

1816
01:42:41,760 --> 01:42:45,440
had fantastic moments to watch 
Anna Lakison, who was a 

1817
01:42:45,440 --> 01:42:49,200
ballerina here in Copenhagen, 
who was not grown up in the 

1818
01:42:49,320 --> 01:42:53,760
Royal Danish Ballet, but to had 
had something very, very special

1819
01:42:54,240 --> 01:42:57,840
on stage. 
She was a creature a little bit 

1820
01:42:57,840 --> 01:42:59,720
like. 
Another dancer that I've also 

1821
01:42:59,720 --> 01:43:03,440
admired a lot is Eva EV 
Dukimova, who was dancing with a

1822
01:43:03,440 --> 01:43:07,640
lot with Peter Schaufos in She 
actually started as a young girl

1823
01:43:07,800 --> 01:43:10,880
in the Royal Danish Ballet 
sharing dressing room with me. 

1824
01:43:10,880 --> 01:43:14,800
She was, she was only 18. 
She came Fleming Flint who 

1825
01:43:14,800 --> 01:43:18,680
started to open up the company 
from more dancers from outside. 

1826
01:43:18,920 --> 01:43:22,680
She came in and was with our 
company for two years, I think. 

1827
01:43:22,800 --> 01:43:26,320
And later on I met her when I 
was helping Peter Xiaofus with 

1828
01:43:26,320 --> 01:43:28,000
some of his Bonneville 
productions. 

1829
01:43:28,200 --> 01:43:31,720
And she danced the Sylphied in 
his Sylphied in London and she 

1830
01:43:31,720 --> 01:43:35,600
danced in Berlin when he did 
Folk Tale. 

1831
01:43:36,040 --> 01:43:39,040
She danced Hilda and she was a 
beautiful dancer. 

1832
01:43:39,280 --> 01:43:41,000
But I can probably mention a 
lot. 

1833
01:43:41,000 --> 01:43:43,280
I mean, I think there were more 
images. 

1834
01:43:43,280 --> 01:43:46,000
Those are the ones that just 
comes to my mind now when we 

1835
01:43:46,000 --> 01:43:49,280
talk. 
So listeners, get on Google, try

1836
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:52,720
and find these people. 
So what is the first theatre or 

1837
01:43:52,720 --> 01:43:57,360
dance production you ever saw? 
I was so young when I started to

1838
01:43:57,400 --> 01:44:00,520
see ballet. 
So I mean, the chronology is 

1839
01:44:00,520 --> 01:44:04,120
maybe a little bit, I don't know
which one was the first, but I 

1840
01:44:04,120 --> 01:44:07,440
know it was born over ballet or 
it was Capelia. 

1841
01:44:08,160 --> 01:44:11,640
It was probably either a folk 
tale or Capelia, I think. 

1842
01:44:12,040 --> 01:44:15,000
But it was those story ballets 
that were in the in the 

1843
01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:16,840
repertoire, the Royal Danish 
Ballet. 

1844
01:44:16,840 --> 01:44:18,600
I love Capelia. 
Yeah, me too. 

1845
01:44:20,600 --> 01:44:23,400
That was my favorite ballet as a
child, actually. 

1846
01:44:23,680 --> 01:44:25,800
And I could. 
I knew Vanilla's role. 

1847
01:44:25,800 --> 01:44:30,680
I danced it at home every 
Sunday, and I could sing all the

1848
01:44:30,680 --> 01:44:33,000
music. 
So when we went on tour with my 

1849
01:44:33,000 --> 01:44:36,720
father's car around with the 
car, I was always singing. 

1850
01:44:36,720 --> 01:44:41,720
I started with the overture and 
I finished with the last finale.

1851
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:47,320
The whole ballet I was singing. 
OK, well that's a great segue 

1852
01:44:47,320 --> 01:44:51,720
into what is the last piece of 
music you listen to, last song 

1853
01:44:51,720 --> 01:44:53,480
or piece of music that you 
listen to today? 

1854
01:44:54,360 --> 01:44:59,320
Today actually a very special 
music because now I'm working 

1855
01:44:59,320 --> 01:45:03,080
with my husband Eric, who is 
also choreographing. 

1856
01:45:03,080 --> 01:45:06,880
And we have found a Norwegian 
composer who is not very known 

1857
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:11,000
and his name is Las Minsos and 
he has composed a beautiful 

1858
01:45:11,000 --> 01:45:14,120
piece called Cantabula. 
And actually Eric is 

1859
01:45:14,120 --> 01:45:15,920
choreographing to it at the 
moment. 

1860
01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:19,400
We are going to Amsterdam next 
month where we are working at 

1861
01:45:19,400 --> 01:45:22,480
the European School of Ballet 
and I'm helping him, I'm his 

1862
01:45:22,480 --> 01:45:23,800
assistant. 
It's very nice. 

1863
01:45:24,640 --> 01:45:26,640
Therefore he's choreographing to
this piece. 

1864
01:45:26,640 --> 01:45:29,640
So I was just listening to it. 
It's a beautiful orchestra 

1865
01:45:29,640 --> 01:45:32,480
piece, only about 5-6 minutes 
long. 

1866
01:45:32,680 --> 01:45:35,320
Very romantic cantabula. 
Perfect. 

1867
01:45:35,640 --> 01:45:39,240
Is there a piece of music or a 
song that always makes you want 

1868
01:45:39,240 --> 01:45:42,760
to dance? 
Then any music from the 

1869
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:46,240
Bonneville classes, because if I
hear a music there, my legs 

1870
01:45:46,240 --> 01:45:48,840
start because I know which step 
belongs to it. 

1871
01:45:49,520 --> 01:45:52,240
So it just goes like a horse in 
a Manish. 

1872
01:45:52,240 --> 01:45:56,520
You hear the music and you do 
the steps, which can be actually

1873
01:45:56,520 --> 01:45:59,920
very disturbing for some 
beautiful piece of music that 

1874
01:45:59,920 --> 01:46:03,200
you actually only connected with
some some steps. 

1875
01:46:03,920 --> 01:46:07,280
And I have a funny story about 
that actually, that my father 

1876
01:46:07,280 --> 01:46:09,720
told me. 
It's about the Bonneville 

1877
01:46:09,720 --> 01:46:13,720
classes in my father's time and 
all his generation, they did 

1878
01:46:13,840 --> 01:46:17,000
every day the Monday class with 
the same music, the same music, 

1879
01:46:17,000 --> 01:46:20,320
the same music all their time. 
So one of his colleagues from 

1880
01:46:20,320 --> 01:46:24,520
that time called him and I think
it was, can it be Gorbachev? 

1881
01:46:24,520 --> 01:46:28,640
It was one big Russian that was 
had a big funeral that was in 

1882
01:46:29,200 --> 01:46:32,480
transmitted in the television. 
And he called my father and 

1883
01:46:32,480 --> 01:46:36,400
said, I don't know. 
Why did they play Saturday #3 

1884
01:46:36,400 --> 01:46:42,520
for Gorbachev's funeral? 
Because that was a piece of 

1885
01:46:42,520 --> 01:46:46,360
music that actually was used to 
one of the Bono steps. 

1886
01:46:46,840 --> 01:46:50,160
I don't know which piece it was,
but apparently it was a piece 

1887
01:46:50,160 --> 01:46:51,960
that was very fitted for a 
funeral. 

1888
01:46:53,640 --> 01:46:57,680
So you see, that music is kind 
of for those people who just 

1889
01:46:57,680 --> 01:47:00,000
listen to that music all the 
time, every morning. 

1890
01:47:00,000 --> 01:47:02,520
It's forever connected with 
those steps. 

1891
01:47:05,040 --> 01:47:07,680
OK. 
Do you have a favorite teacher 

1892
01:47:07,680 --> 01:47:09,560
that you've had? 
A favorite teacher, whether it 

1893
01:47:09,560 --> 01:47:13,600
be at school or company class, 
or someone that you always love 

1894
01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:17,280
to take in their class. 
That's a hard question because 

1895
01:47:17,320 --> 01:47:21,200
the teachers who really means a 
lot for you are the ones you 

1896
01:47:21,200 --> 01:47:24,640
have had a lot and they are not 
necessarily the one that you 

1897
01:47:24,640 --> 01:47:26,680
are. 
Oh, my favorite because I mean, 

1898
01:47:26,680 --> 01:47:30,200
they are you a teacher? 
I mean, I owe so much to Idiot 

1899
01:47:30,200 --> 01:47:34,600
Fransen and to Vera Volkova, who
were those two teachers who has 

1900
01:47:34,600 --> 01:47:37,120
formed me and made me the dancer
that I am. 

1901
01:47:37,320 --> 01:47:41,440
I was in my time. 
And so of course, but sometime 

1902
01:47:41,440 --> 01:47:44,560
when you say favorite teacher, 
it can be someone that you just 

1903
01:47:45,080 --> 01:47:49,480
meet in summer course or you 
feel there's something special. 

1904
01:47:49,840 --> 01:47:54,000
And there I have of course also 
come across teachers that had 

1905
01:47:54,000 --> 01:47:57,680
given me something special, even
if they have not followed me for

1906
01:47:57,680 --> 01:48:00,080
a long time. 
And 1 teacher that made a big 

1907
01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:03,720
impression on me was a teacher I
was taking classes with in New 

1908
01:48:03,720 --> 01:48:08,000
York and his name was finest 
young and he had his own private

1909
01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:10,520
studio. 
I have no idea whether he's 

1910
01:48:10,520 --> 01:48:14,200
still alive or probably he's not
teaching anymore. 

1911
01:48:14,200 --> 01:48:18,680
I don't know, but this class was
kind of a combination of 

1912
01:48:18,880 --> 01:48:25,120
something very spiritual. 
He had some exercises that also 

1913
01:48:25,120 --> 01:48:28,320
a lot with the breathing. 
And I remember that time I took 

1914
01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:32,440
the classes, it was actually 
helping me a lot in ways that I 

1915
01:48:32,440 --> 01:48:36,240
had not expected, both the 
breathing and the way of the 

1916
01:48:36,240 --> 01:48:39,520
mind, how the visualizing 
things. 

1917
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:42,320
So I loved his classes. 
They were quite hard because it 

1918
01:48:42,320 --> 01:48:46,720
was 2 hours, I remember and he 
was teaching because in America 

1919
01:48:46,720 --> 01:48:48,840
sometime you have those very big
classes. 

1920
01:48:49,120 --> 01:48:52,360
So he was standing on a balcony 
and speaking in a in a 

1921
01:48:52,360 --> 01:48:56,600
microphone, but with a very soft
voice and the, the things he 

1922
01:48:56,600 --> 01:49:00,400
said made you really listen. 
So it's well, he's also kind of 

1923
01:49:00,400 --> 01:49:02,960
an example that you don't always
need a teacher who's there 

1924
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:05,440
physically to show you 
everything. 

1925
01:49:05,440 --> 01:49:09,360
And so it was he could kind of 
visualize by the way he was 

1926
01:49:09,480 --> 01:49:11,760
teaching. 
It made an impression on me. 

1927
01:49:12,040 --> 01:49:14,800
And maybe it's not right to say 
it was my favorite teacher, but 

1928
01:49:14,800 --> 01:49:18,680
it's but it's teacher that I 
really still remember for some 

1929
01:49:18,680 --> 01:49:22,040
special thing. 
OK, so two more questions. 

1930
01:49:22,280 --> 01:49:26,440
This is my favorite question. 
What is a memorable time you 

1931
01:49:26,440 --> 01:49:30,880
made a mistake or forgot an 
entrance or something went wrong

1932
01:49:30,880 --> 01:49:33,320
on stage? 
Oh my God, that's those things 

1933
01:49:33,320 --> 01:49:39,600
that you try to forget again. 
Sounds strange, said I, I cannot

1934
01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:43,440
right away come, but I'm sure. 
I mean, of course I have. 

1935
01:49:43,520 --> 01:49:46,320
I have experienced this kind of 
blackouts on stage. 

1936
01:49:46,320 --> 01:49:47,160
Of course. 
Where you? 

1937
01:49:47,480 --> 01:49:51,480
Well, I mean, I remember on one 
tour with the Bonoval group, I 

1938
01:49:51,480 --> 01:49:55,280
was falling three times in the 
same solo and I got a big 

1939
01:49:55,280 --> 01:49:58,680
applause. 
The third time I fell because 

1940
01:49:58,680 --> 01:50:01,640
then I couldn't believe and I 
don't know what happened. 

1941
01:50:01,640 --> 01:50:05,760
I mean the floor was slippery or
my shoe, but I don't know how I 

1942
01:50:05,760 --> 01:50:10,160
managed in the same solo to fold
three times on different places 

1943
01:50:10,160 --> 01:50:15,000
in the on stage so well. 
At least the audience were with 

1944
01:50:15,080 --> 01:50:16,000
you. 
Yes, they were. 

1945
01:50:16,680 --> 01:50:19,800
That was so nice. 
So that I do remember and thank 

1946
01:50:19,800 --> 01:50:21,720
God it was not. 
I didn't hurt myself. 

1947
01:50:21,720 --> 01:50:25,520
It was just every time you get a
shock when you kind of suddenly 

1948
01:50:25,520 --> 01:50:28,680
find yourself on the floor. 
Three times in the same soda. 

1949
01:50:28,720 --> 01:50:30,520
And also like ballet, sodas 
aren't that long. 

1950
01:50:30,520 --> 01:50:39,040
No forgetting an entrance, 
actually, only in my dreams. 

1951
01:50:41,320 --> 01:50:44,000
And then you have those streams 
where you cannot get in time on 

1952
01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:47,520
stage, or you suddenly realise 
that the performance is finished

1953
01:50:47,520 --> 01:50:50,160
and you were not there or 
something strange. 

1954
01:50:50,200 --> 01:50:53,880
I've told the story on this 
podcast before about it's 

1955
01:50:53,880 --> 01:50:56,320
happened to me once so I've 
forgotten an entrance. 

1956
01:50:56,560 --> 01:50:57,920
I didn't even forget the 
entrance. 

1957
01:50:57,920 --> 01:51:01,200
I was early and it was the doors
in the tinderbox. 

1958
01:51:01,440 --> 01:51:03,920
I can't. 
I was one of the doors and I 

1959
01:51:03,920 --> 01:51:08,880
came on stage 8 counts too early
and I was the only door on stage

1960
01:51:08,880 --> 01:51:11,240
and everybody else is in the 
wings and I just stood there one

1961
01:51:11,240 --> 01:51:15,920
centre as a door and obviously 
it's it's 8 quick counts. 

1962
01:51:15,920 --> 01:51:18,120
You know, the music is very 
quick music, so it's not that 

1963
01:51:18,120 --> 01:51:20,280
long at all, but. 
But it feels long when. 

1964
01:51:20,280 --> 01:51:26,680
It feels like 3 hours. 
So I did that in your ballet. 

1965
01:51:28,600 --> 01:51:30,120
That's nice. 
That's a nice story. 

1966
01:51:30,400 --> 01:51:33,400
No, I love these stories and I 
mean, it's really strange, but I

1967
01:51:33,400 --> 01:51:34,800
mean, I get a question like 
this. 

1968
01:51:34,800 --> 01:51:37,640
I just all of a sudden I think 
there must have been I. 

1969
01:51:37,800 --> 01:51:40,800
Must have done something I. 
Must have done something, but I 

1970
01:51:40,800 --> 01:51:45,320
guess I'm good at forgetting 
those things going on if it's 

1971
01:51:45,320 --> 01:51:46,800
too embarrassing. 
Oh, it just. 

1972
01:51:46,800 --> 01:51:50,360
They're exactly and. 
The final question, what has 

1973
01:51:50,360 --> 01:51:54,920
been the best premier party or 
last night party that you've 

1974
01:51:54,920 --> 01:51:58,400
been to? 
Well, I think maybe the little 

1975
01:51:58,400 --> 01:52:02,880
party that was after afternoon 
of a phone because it was my 

1976
01:52:02,960 --> 01:52:08,360
debut, it was not a big party, 
but it was a very special party 

1977
01:52:08,360 --> 01:52:10,800
for me. 
That is that is the one I think 

1978
01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:13,320
of with parties. 
But of course those parties who 

1979
01:52:13,320 --> 01:52:16,400
are also very nice are the 
parties where you celebrate a 

1980
01:52:16,400 --> 01:52:22,560
colleague is either having a a 
big anniversary or as a farewell

1981
01:52:22,560 --> 01:52:24,800
party. 
And then I must say I have 

1982
01:52:24,800 --> 01:52:29,360
experienced two fantastic 
ceremonies for myself. 

1983
01:52:29,880 --> 01:52:34,360
One in Oslo when they celebrated
my 50 years birthday with a 

1984
01:52:34,360 --> 01:52:37,440
performance on stage with guest 
dancers. 

1985
01:52:37,440 --> 01:52:41,120
And Eric Ashengrain, who is 
unfortunately not among us 

1986
01:52:41,120 --> 01:52:43,680
anymore. 
He's really much, much missed. 

1987
01:52:43,920 --> 01:52:47,360
It was really like the doctor 
dance who knew everything about 

1988
01:52:47,360 --> 01:52:51,000
dance history. 
He was the conferenci for that 

1989
01:52:51,000 --> 01:52:53,440
one. 
And they have found all films of

1990
01:52:53,440 --> 01:52:56,680
me dancing. 
Oh wow, It was a very special 

1991
01:52:56,920 --> 01:52:58,800
evening and I had nothing to do 
with it. 

1992
01:52:58,800 --> 01:53:02,520
I was told I should not be part,
even if I was a director. 

1993
01:53:02,520 --> 01:53:05,560
I was not allowed to know what 
was going to happen there. 

1994
01:53:05,920 --> 01:53:07,680
Yes. 
And they made a very nice 

1995
01:53:07,680 --> 01:53:12,440
farewell for me in Finland when 
I, when I finished as a director

1996
01:53:12,440 --> 01:53:15,360
there. 
That was also a very special 

1997
01:53:15,360 --> 01:53:17,800
evening. 
And there are two things I 

1998
01:53:17,800 --> 01:53:21,360
remember for that evening. 
One was that I made my longest 

1999
01:53:21,360 --> 01:53:25,600
speech in Finnish because I had 
really decided I was going to 

2000
01:53:25,600 --> 01:53:28,800
say something in Finnish. 
So I had written it in English 

2001
01:53:28,800 --> 01:53:32,200
and I had asked someone to 
translate it to Finnish without 

2002
01:53:32,200 --> 01:53:35,280
knowing if she really did it or 
if she got something else. 

2003
01:53:36,240 --> 01:53:39,360
And I had memorized it so I 
could say it without reading. 

2004
01:53:39,760 --> 01:53:42,360
Wow. 
And that was, I was a bit proud 

2005
01:53:42,360 --> 01:53:45,280
about that myself, of course. 
And the thing was that when I 

2006
01:53:45,280 --> 01:53:48,360
went out in the intermission, 
people started to speak Finnish 

2007
01:53:48,360 --> 01:53:50,320
to me because they thought I was
fluent. 

2008
01:53:50,320 --> 01:53:53,120
And I just had to say, actually.
I just learned to script. 

2009
01:53:53,120 --> 01:53:56,280
Finnish it all. 
I was not even sure if what I 

2010
01:53:56,280 --> 01:53:58,080
was saying, but I hope it was 
the right. 

2011
01:53:58,480 --> 01:54:01,080
So that was quite nice. 
And the other thing was that the

2012
01:54:01,080 --> 01:54:05,960
dancer dancers had prepared in 
the party afterwards a fantastic

2013
01:54:05,960 --> 01:54:09,880
sketch where they were actually,
one girl was impersonating me 

2014
01:54:10,720 --> 01:54:15,040
and she was so good. 
I mean, really amazing. 

2015
01:54:15,040 --> 01:54:18,200
I mean, how she had just seen 
the little things that I know 

2016
01:54:18,200 --> 01:54:21,080
myself, I do, I mean, like 
touching my nose. 

2017
01:54:21,080 --> 01:54:24,720
So I mean like little kind of 
habits I have. 

2018
01:54:24,760 --> 01:54:29,360
So it was hilarious And and that
was so and it warmed my heart so

2019
01:54:29,360 --> 01:54:33,720
much also because to do that has
been a lot of work for them that

2020
01:54:33,720 --> 01:54:35,400
they had to do in their free 
time. 

2021
01:54:35,400 --> 01:54:39,240
And they were were really doing 
it from they wanted to give me 

2022
01:54:39,240 --> 01:54:43,040
that gift and and that was very 
touching and meant a lot to me. 

2023
01:54:43,320 --> 01:54:49,840
It was lovely Dina, it has been 
so lovely chatting to you and 

2024
01:54:49,840 --> 01:54:52,840
being able to talk to you. 
So thank you so much for joining

2025
01:54:52,840 --> 01:54:55,320
us today. 
Thank you for inviting me to 

2026
01:54:55,320 --> 01:54:57,280
this. 
I think it has been wonderful to

2027
01:54:57,440 --> 01:55:01,240
walk down memory lane together 
with you, so thank you so much 

2028
01:55:01,240 --> 01:55:04,560
for giving me this opportunity. 
Thank you and thank you 

2029
01:55:04,560 --> 01:55:07,400
everybody for listening to 
another episode of Drinks at the

2030
01:55:07,400 --> 01:55:08,880
Bar. 
If you have enjoyed this 

2031
01:55:08,880 --> 01:55:11,600
episode, please tell your 
friends and colleagues all about

2032
01:55:11,640 --> 01:55:14,960
our little podcast. 
Take care everybody, and 

2033
01:55:14,960 --> 01:55:16,160
goodbye. 
Thank you, Dina. 

2034
01:55:16,560 --> 01:55:16,880
Bye.