1 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,720 Hello and welcome to Drinks at the Bar, a podcast where we 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,560 breakthrough the 4th wall and discuss everything about dance 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,160 and the theatre industry. My name is Paul James Rooney, a 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,200 dancer, choreographer and dance teacher based in Copenhagen, and 5 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,160 I am your host of Drinks at the Bar. 6 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,240 Today I'm joined yet again by my wonderful guest host. 7 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,640 She is 80% leg. It is Damian Lee Sturck. 8 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,280 Oh, God, that's ridiculous. And actually, I had a fitting 9 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,440 last week and I said, oh, can we just adjust the elastics on my 10 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:36,560 tights? Because I could do with them in 11 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,000 a bit, a little bit tighter. And she said, yeah, well, you do 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,040 have the longest legs in show business. 13 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:44,400 Thanks. Hi, everybody. 14 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,320 I'm Damien Lee Sturk, director of The Dancer's Studio London 15 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:51,800 classical ballet teacher and actor with the Royal Ballet. 16 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,120 Here we will discuss everything from hearing backstage stories, 17 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,880 touring shenanigans, to deeper issues like body image training, 18 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,520 the reality of being a freelance dancer, and the length of 19 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,959 Damien's legs. With guest professionals, we are 20 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,520 here to share our knowledge, experience, and help you with 21 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,840 any questions or problems you may have about dance and 22 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:16,120 navigating. Navigating. 23 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,880 Wait, you just just need to say and navigating. 24 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:26,640 Easy for you today. Wait, wait and navigating the 25 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,000 dance world or finding the right trouser length. 26 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,000 Hi Denise. Oh, hello. 27 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,720 Straight away I'm thirsty so I'm going to say cheers. 28 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,280 I have an elderflower spritz yet again because those botanical 29 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:41,680 flavours really did something for me. 30 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,160 There's something in the way you say botanical that makes me 31 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:46,600 giggle. It's so funny. 32 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,200 Botanical. Botanical. 33 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:54,600 It's medicinal, yet botanical. I'm on the gin and tonic because 34 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,640 I'm back to a classic, a traditional beverage of mine. 35 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,520 So cheers, Chin, Chin. Cheers, love, cheers. 36 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,480 No one would guess that that intro took 45 minutes. 37 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:12,920 So you just talking about your leg? 38 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:14,920 We were just talking about your legs and just made me think 39 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:17,520 about the episode a couple of weeks ago with Hampi. 40 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,680 Do you remember back in? Oh, it's now probably, I don't 41 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,240 know, probably about 10 or 15 years ago. 42 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:26,120 Do you remember his profile picture on Facebook used to be 43 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:27,800 his foot? Yes. 44 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:29,560 Oh my God, his. Feet. 45 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,040 Delicious. Deliciousness. 46 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,800 Yeah, those feet. Beautiful. 47 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,920 Absolutely beautiful. Talking about tights though, I 48 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,640 literally saw on Instagram yesterday I can't remember what 49 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:45,200 ballet company it was but it was a big ballet company and the 50 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,480 male dancers wearing tights with the seam going up the front. 51 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,360 Why does this still exist? Why do we still have seams going 52 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:58,600 up the front that gives everyone hofage to camel like we This 53 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,160 needs to stop because if you, if you buy, for example, from 54 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:06,360 Yumiko for class, some hot pants or tights from Yumiko for class, 55 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:11,320 there's seams up the sides and up, you know, in the middle, but 56 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,960 then it doesn't go up the front. Speeders don't have a seam up 57 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,160 the front. Why are we having the seams up 58 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,440 the front? If we if we can do without it, 59 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,480 then why are we, why are they still inventing it? 60 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:24,680 I don't I can't answer that, although I I am. 61 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:26,800 Do you not make the tights for each company? 62 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:32,440 No, but maybe I should. I don't know it because it's 63 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:37,120 clearly just a design selection. They've chosen a selection from 64 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,280 a collection. It's a rhyming episode. 65 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:48,280 So stupid. I don't know why, but when I'm 66 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,160 choosing some swimwear, for example, because you and I are 67 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,160 quite partial to a little bit of the brand Aussie Bum, some of 68 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,640 the swimwear has a seam up the front. 69 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:00,280 And we've made that mistake before. 70 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,240 You know, you have to choose something that's smooth at the 71 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,720 front with seams at the side. So I don't know why ballet types 72 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,440 are still being made for men with scenes up the front. 73 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:09,960 It's very odd. It is very. 74 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:11,000 Odd. Odd, because it's not. 75 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:11,600 Flattering. No. 76 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,880 No, it's not flattering at all. Anyway, so that was a random 77 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:15,200 sign note. Hi, how are you? 78 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:21,320 Well, now I'm pondering a seam in a ballet tight, which I 79 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:26,600 didn't think would be part of my agenda, but I'm good. 80 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:27,880 Thank you. I'm very well. 81 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:32,520 It's without sounding too English about discussing the 82 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,200 weather. I will discuss the weather. 83 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:37,240 It's very cold, it's dropped in temperature. 84 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,920 So we're starting to introduce, you know, a glove, a fingerless 85 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:45,440 glove, a scarf, a little snood, which I do like this time of 86 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:50,240 year, but I am a warmer temperate, a temperature kind of 87 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,600 gal. Yeah, I mean, I've when I put on 88 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,560 my winter jacket and started wearing glasses like, oh, I'm in 89 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,680 Copenhagen, obviously. And I think she was like, oh, 90 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,080 it's this now. Until April. 91 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:02,720 Yeah, that's the thing, isn't it? 92 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,360 And it's going to get colder. And anyway, it is what it is. 93 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,440 But, and I do love dressing for that time of year. 94 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,200 I love like an oversized double breasted coat. 95 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,480 I like the whole look. I think it suits me. 96 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,200 I'm not a shorts person. I'm not a flip flops person. 97 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,600 So I do like this time of year from a fashion perspective, but 98 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,960 I'd much rather be, you know, in the Maldives. 99 00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:30,320 But I think I preferred it in England as well because 100 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,080 obviously, well in London, because I'd get on the Tube, I'd 101 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,200 walk a little bit 5-10 minutes, 15 minutes outside or whatever 102 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,960 it is. It's the cycling here because I 103 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:43,320 can't get away with just having a nice long double breasted Moss 104 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,040 Bros coat or whatever. Like I have to have a proper 105 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,760 Canada Goose coat because I'm cycling for 20 minutes in the 106 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,720 snow or in the rain or whatever. And so it's not really the 107 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,040 fashionable choice. No, it's just probably not to 108 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:02,760 die of hypothermia. And again, the winters do do 109 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,560 last long up here in Scandinavia, but we love it for 110 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,680 whatever reason. Cheers. 111 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,320 Cheers. And welcome to winter. 112 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,880 And welcome to the bleak winter months. 113 00:06:14,280 --> 00:06:17,840 Welcome to Nutcracker season. And Nutcracker season. 114 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,080 So I was thinking the other day about the pop stars and the TV 115 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,520 shows that we grew up watching. And I say we grew up because we 116 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:34,480 are very close in age. It's only 30 years between us. 117 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,280 But you know, when we grew up, there was firstly, every pop 118 00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:42,440 star seemed to dance, like whether it was a little hokey, 119 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,880 pokey little routine, but every pop star seemed to dance, 120 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,480 especially the female pop stars. But even, you know, all the boy 121 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:49,880 bands, they all did choreography. 122 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,840 Everybody danced and there was Top of the Pops, there was CDUK 123 00:06:54,840 --> 00:06:57,840 on Saturdays. There was a lot of we were 124 00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:00,600 surrounded by dance. Like if you think about it, 125 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:05,240 there was a live performance every Friday with the biggest 126 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:10,240 pop stars of the day with backup dancers every Friday. 127 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,520 And when CDUK started every Saturday, that's a hell of a lot 128 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,840 of jobs that were around for dancers and also for the 129 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,560 audience, A lot of dance that was being seen and it doesn't 130 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,360 exist anymore. You know, something that's 131 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,600 something I haven't I hadn't quite considered. 132 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,840 But, yeah, thinking back to when, you know, you and I were 133 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:34,440 dancing full time here in London in particular, You know, we did 134 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,360 have friends that we were at school with or friends of 135 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,480 friends that were dancers. And they were doing all those 136 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,680 kind of shows, you know, dancing on TV, you know, for Kylie, you 137 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:48,920 know, for other huge stars. And it was a real job for those 138 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,000 commercial, more commercially inclined dancers. 139 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:53,440 Where now? Yeah. 140 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,160 Where have they? What are they doing? 141 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,040 Where the jobs? Yeah, because it I again, I 142 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:02,720 think from kind of like Top of the Pops to those variety shows 143 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:07,120 and all those backing dancers, they kind of had a route through 144 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:12,640 that commercial line. But now that the trend has not 145 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,640 so much past, but there's just less opportunities for those 146 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,400 dancers who I wonder what they where they ended up if it wasn't 147 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,280 on let's say a Western stage or they came back to their roots. 148 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,120 I mean, it's just for me, I was really thinking that, you know, 149 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:29,400 that Top of the Pops, especially because CDUK was more of a, it 150 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,880 didn't run as long. Top of the Pops was when my mum 151 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,400 was a kid. Yeah, up until when I was an 152 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,039 adult. Like it was a long TV show and 153 00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:43,360 it was every single Friday. And also back then, yes, the 154 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,840 music industry had more money because you made more out of CD 155 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:48,560 sales and all this kind of stuff. 156 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,240 So firstly there's Top of the Pops that had dancers, but also 157 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:57,360 nowadays only the massive artists have dances in their 158 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,800 music videos. Lady Gaga, Beyoncé kind of about 159 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,280 it. But back then everybody had 160 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,200 dancers in their videos, like, you know, 5 Bewitched. 161 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,720 I mean, Kylie is a huge person, but Emma Bunton, when she went 162 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,480 solo, I remember some of my friends were dancing for Emma 163 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,800 Bunton in her videos that everybody had dancers and 164 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:21,680 probably about, you know, 10 to 15. 165 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,440 I mean, remember Jerry Halliwell releasing its reigning men? 166 00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:28,200 They were proper routines. Also, they were really 167 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,720 choreographed. It wasn't just like a step 168 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:35,480 together step together or trying to look sexy or or flirtatious. 169 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:40,680 It was a proper rehearsed full routine. 170 00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:44,200 And it would be 20 dancers. Yeah. 171 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,680 Like, I mean, think back to the days of the Kylie album, Is it 172 00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:52,160 Fever with Can't Get You Out of My Head and Love at First Sight. 173 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,640 Love at First Sight was choreographed by Raphael 174 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,720 Bronicella, who is now the director of Sydney Doskam. 175 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,120 I have friends in that I have a funny story, but anyway, that's 176 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,040 another time. Dance when we were growing up, 177 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:11,160 especially like 90s and early 2000s, was really tangible. 178 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,160 It was in front of you everywhere. 179 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,320 And it just got me to thinking that where is it now? 180 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,240 Because the only place I see dancing, and I use the term very 181 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:29,280 loosely is TikTok. And TikTok is run by algorithms. 182 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,480 So like, obviously the most popular thing is what is getting 183 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,840 thrown at you. Whereas back in the day, if it's 184 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,440 like Top of the Pops or whatever, a producer, a human 185 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,920 being is deciding what you're watching. 186 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,160 So then there is going to be a mix of different things being 187 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,600 shown to you. Whereas nowadays, you see, I 188 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,920 know it's going back a couple of years, but everybody doing the 189 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,760 Megan Trainer dance, you see the same thing over and over and 190 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,320 over and over and over again. You're not seeing dancers 191 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,880 dancing to Annie Lennox. Why? 192 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,240 Or you know what I mean? You're not seeing different 193 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:01,840 genres, you're not seeing different ideas, you're not 194 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,840 seeing different thoughts. You're seeing what is popular at 195 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,200 the moment and that is it. And again, lots of the time it's 196 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,560 not professionals, it's people dancing around in the living 197 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:13,120 room. There's not. 198 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,240 It's not the same as what we grew up with, seeing dance 199 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,280 everywhere. No, it isn't. 200 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:23,280 And we had an enormous amount of access to dance through the 201 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:28,920 television, you know, MTV, of course, that, you know, had just 202 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,920 back-to-back 24 hours. And, and the trend was in the 203 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,520 late 90s, two thousands, you know, music, a music video was a 204 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,680 really considered and constructed event. 205 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:44,520 It hadn't most of them had a narrative and pretty pretty sure 206 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:49,440 most of them had some content of dance because unless it was a 207 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,720 ballad, of course, in which case it had, you know, a different 208 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,760 theme or whatnot. But now, of course, things shift 209 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,360 and evolve and change through time and trends change. 210 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,200 And then, you know, now we have social media. 211 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:06,800 We're over saturated with these little mini snippets of learning 212 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,720 dance routines, which if it's happens to be your track that's 213 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,680 trending, can do wonders for, you know, streams. 214 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,080 But it's a different world, isn't it? 215 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,920 And it's a different world also in terms of what we're seeing 216 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,800 choreographically. We're seeing quick routines 217 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,680 really for access to the non trained dancer. 218 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,440 Anybody can do it, which is great. 219 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,240 It's access for everybody. Whereas the pop stars of our 220 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,800 time were doing real choreography that was set in a 221 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,040 dance studio, probably at Pineapple Dance Studios with a 222 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,600 rehearsal director of choreographer within that 223 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,760 traditional setting that we're really familiar with. 224 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,320 So it's it's changed enormously. Yeah, because social media is 225 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:56,200 about you learning you. It's about everybody's sharing. 226 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,960 So it is the non professional dancer sharing that they've 227 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,880 learned Lizos routine or whatever and everybody's doing 228 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,760 that because it's social. It's not a professional. 229 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,160 Yeah, it it, it is, is different. 230 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,080 So it again, the the level is not there. 231 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:14,760 You're not getting thrown in your face. 232 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,200 Unless something trends like the Gap commercial did couple of 233 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,840 months ago, then everybody sees some amazing choreography and 234 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,400 some amazing dancers. But the majority of the time, 235 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,080 yeah, it's fantastic. The majority of the time, unless 236 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,880 you follow dancers, unless you follow Brian Friedman, Tina 237 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:36,840 Landon, whoever, then you will just see your average Joe 238 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,280 learning a routine that they've seen on TikTok and doing their 239 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,640 version of it. And it's very different to what 240 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,880 we grew up with because it wasn't because we were 241 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,760 interested in it that we watched dance. 242 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:51,000 Everybody watched Top of the Pops, everybody watched CDUK, 243 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:55,200 every single person was watching these dancers every Friday 244 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,440 night, whether you wanted to or not. 245 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,280 No, definitely. And I just have a thought, you 246 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,640 know, as a child going to kind of social events with your 247 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,880 parents or your family, like a family members birthday party, 248 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:11,480 you know, our culture was certainly to have or host like a 249 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,720 birthday party with a disco. And there were routines that, 250 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,560 you know, my mother used to teach me. 251 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:21,920 Like I remember dancing on the dance floor, dancing to like 252 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:26,280 Bananarama or Wigwam Bam or you know, I mean, I'm talking a long 253 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,160 time ago and I'm definitely showing my age. 254 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,960 However, and your mums. That was part of our. 255 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,440 I'm my mother. She'll kill me, you know? 256 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,920 But that was ingrained. Like, it's interesting, you 257 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:42,440 know, the concept of learning choreography, even if you had 258 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,360 nothing to do with the dance world or envision becoming a 259 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,400 trained dancer. So yeah, the culture has 260 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,760 definitely shifted because we've lost all of that programming. 261 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,840 We then went on to obviously your X Factors and Pop Idol and 262 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,440 Pop stars and stuff, and then there was a show every single 263 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,680 Saturday. But the majority of the time 264 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,760 it's about the singing. And yes, maybe in the finals or 265 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,960 the semi finals there might be a big dance routine or I think X 266 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:10,360 Factor. There was a little bit more 267 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,200 dancing throughout. But again, that's all 268 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,560 disappeared really because people don't watch TV anymore. 269 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:18,840 Like TV is dying. People don't watch. 270 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,400 In Denmark, we call it Flow TV, like, you know, turn on the TV 271 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,920 and use the remote control, the clicker, the box, whatever you 272 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,320 want to call it and see what is on right now. 273 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,720 Because back in the day, we would all sit down at 7:00 and 274 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,680 watch pop stars or X Factor or whatever it is. 275 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,240 And then we would all be watching, you know, your 276 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,800 audiences of 30 million or whatever, watching the same TV 277 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,720 show every single Saturday night, watching these dances, 278 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,360 Whereas now everybody's on their streaming services. 279 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:52,400 So that side of the industry, which was after our childhood 280 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,320 because we didn't grow up with X Factor and stuff like that, that 281 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,320 was way after us being kids. That's kind of followed on from 282 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,640 Top of the Pops in City, UK. But now even that's kind of 283 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,960 disappearing because not many people are watching live TV 284 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,800 anymore. It makes me think where, where 285 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,000 is dance? Where where is dance apart from 286 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,240 in a theatre nowadays? Like is, is it as tangible? 287 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,440 Is it as accessible? Because the the music video is 288 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,680 kind of dying. I can't think of the last time I 289 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,480 watched a music video. Not not an entire music video. 290 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,480 Like if I like a specific artist, let's just say Britney 291 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:32,160 releases a song tomorrow, I would make an effort to see her 292 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,800 video. Whereas back in the day, lots of 293 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,960 the time, MTV was just on in the background, or you'd go to a bar 294 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,280 and MTV was playing videos constantly. 295 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,560 You'd go to, I don't know, GAY bar, which is now just closed. 296 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,520 You know, they'd be constantly just showing music videos. 297 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:50,920 And we don't know those music videos. 298 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,800 We'd all seen them. Whereas MTV now just show 299 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,120 reality TV shows. There's no music to do. 300 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,560 Do people even know that MTV stands for music television? 301 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,120 Yeah, it's a shame, isn't it? We've lost a lot of access, but 302 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:05,960 you know, and there's something and it's interesting that you 303 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,400 mentioned turning on the TV and kind of floating. 304 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,359 You know, I that's exactly what I did in Liverpool on tour a few 305 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,480 weeks ago. And, and in my mind it was 306 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,920 purely for nostalgic reasons. I thought, I said to myself, 307 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,920 I've got a couple of hours to myself pop on the TV and just 308 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,400 see what's on the TV. And it felt very nostalgic 309 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,839 because I never turn on the TV because we have laptops and 310 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:29,320 things, phones we can watch whenever, whenever we want. 311 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,120 So, but I certainly didn't TuneIn into anything that was 312 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:36,400 dance related. But I do have fond memories of 313 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,360 Top of the Pops. You know, you have to remember 314 00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:42,760 every household would TuneIn without fail. 315 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:48,400 And seeing your greatest pop stars on TV was such a thrill. 316 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,960 And for me, for me, and we're talking mega stars like Madonna. 317 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,520 All in the same room, all in the same. 318 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:00,040 It's an English production in BBC Studios. 319 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,200 And you have got, yeah, exactly what you're saying. 320 00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:07,040 Everyone from Madonna to Aqua to Backstreet Boys to someone hit 321 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,200 Wonder to. Mr. Blobby. 322 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,600 What exactly? Yeah, they'd all be performing. 323 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,280 They'll all be in the same dressing room or whatever. 324 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,680 Yeah. I loved, I loved it and just and 325 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,320 yeah, just seeing them and having that access and of 326 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,120 course, pre social media, pre smartphone. 327 00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:26,920 So, you know, you had no choice really. 328 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,640 That was pretty much your access unless, you know, you were 329 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,440 buying those magazines or, you know, smash hits or, you know, 330 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,800 keeping up to date with all the radio and hearing kind of the 331 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,840 hit list and whatnot. But but who who are your most 332 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:46,400 nostalgic pop influences, influencers of of what kind of 333 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,360 informed your kind of adolescence? 334 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:53,320 I. Mean keeping it into dance. 335 00:18:53,920 --> 00:19:00,400 I was hugely influenced by Britney, like I think I did. 336 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,440 I clock onto Janet before Britney. 337 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,640 I was quite late to the Janet train because I my very first 338 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,960 music I was listening to was kind of you listen to what your 339 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,040 parents listen to. So I remember my first cassette 340 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,320 that I had was Cyndi Lauper. And then I'd be listening to 341 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,640 like, Bryan Adams and Bon Jovi and Lightning Seeds and all this 342 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,440 kind of stuff, and then Spice Girls. 343 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,440 Yeah. Big Spice Girl fan, but a gay 344 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,040 boy in the 90s who wasn't a Spice Girl fan. 345 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:35,160 A lot of cheesy pop But then when Britney came on the market, 346 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,440 it was the dancing. Suddenly I was like, oh, this is 347 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,480 not because like we said earlier, everybody dance the 348 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:47,560 Spice Girls danced, but Britney danced like proper trained 349 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,600 dancer dance and the choreography and the dancers 350 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,480 were whopper dancers. It wasn't a step, clap, step, 351 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,160 clap, turn around, point at the camera. 352 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,880 Who do you think you are that it wasn't that kind of like follow 353 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:04,360 at home choreography, which steps did, which Spice Girls did 354 00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:07,080 that kind of thing. Britney was suddenly doing 355 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,600 dancing and that really drew me in. 356 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,560 And I think then I went down a rabbit hole of where's Britney 357 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,560 got her influences from and then find out about Janet Jackson and 358 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,480 then go down that and then Janet became a massive. 359 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:26,040 Influence and inspiration after that, because finding these 360 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,120 artists that were your proper, it's not triple threat because 361 00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:31,520 they're not, they're acting. But you know what I mean? 362 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,000 Proper a singer and a dancer, someone who could do proper, 363 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,240 calling it proper dancing, but you know what I mean. 364 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:43,840 Trained, technical, complicated. Trained absolutely. 365 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,760 Because you know, Britney's there. 366 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:50,600 It sounds silly, but like to see a pop star back then stand 367 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,320 there, sing a song in Baby One more time. 368 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,560 And in the video I can remember to this stage, she stands there 369 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,960 and does like a triple pencil turn and then kicks her face 370 00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,920 with her left leg doing a kick to the front. 371 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:04,480 I'm like, I had never seen a pop star dance that well, yes, never 372 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,080 thought a pop star could do a triple pirouette or a kick or 373 00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:11,000 anything like that. That was what suddenly made me 374 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:16,240 go, oh, people can be that good dancers, Major Britney. 375 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,560 Britney fan. Well, I do have an archival 376 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:25,800 situation of you recreating some of those routines to our 377 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,440 journeys together of the story of life. 378 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,200 Somebody drunk in their bedroom dancing to a piece of me. 379 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,440 Good times. But I I mean talking, I mean 380 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,680 just talking about Britney and and Janet for there I remember. 381 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,280 So I must have been, I think it was around, I don't know when 382 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,160 they were released, but it was when I was in my final year of 383 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,120 Elmhurst and I had an apartment. I remember having the DVD of 384 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:57,960 Britney Spears's Las Vegas residency that she did and Janet 385 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:03,280 Jackson's concert in Hawaii that she did and watching them on 386 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:08,640 repeat and, and literally for the dancing, it wasn't because I 387 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,160 wanted the music in the background. 388 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:14,840 It was a real dance inspiration Because we've said this before 389 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,640 on the podcast that you know, and other guests have said on 390 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,160 the podcast, you get inspiration from anywhere. 391 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,960 You get inspiration from walking out an art gallery, from taking 392 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,240 over walk in the woods, listen to classical music or whatever. 393 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,960 I got really inspired as a ballet and contemporary dancer 394 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:35,800 watching the choreographers work in Britney's stuff, like seeing 395 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,400 how, because I think even at that age, I was noticing that 396 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:44,160 they choreographically had ideas and did things that ballet 397 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,640 choreographers didn't do. And yeah, I just would watch 398 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,160 them on repeat. And I think there was an 399 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:57,080 interest in me back then of how can I as an aspiring young 400 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,920 choreographer or artist or whatever, take some of these 401 00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:06,160 crowd pleasing choreographic tricks or crowd pleasing, I 402 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,720 don't know, pyros or costume designs or lighting tricks or 403 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,800 whatever it is. How can I put those in a 404 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,440 contemporary piece or how could they work in ballet? 405 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,640 Or can I take influences from these great choreographers and 406 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,680 put them into the ballet world? Yeah, I was really, really 407 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,000 inspired by Janet and Brittany. Yeah. 408 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,520 I mean, I can see, you know, as a close friend that it's 409 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:35,080 definitely informed your choices, your your artistic 410 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,080 choices, particularly as you were classically trained and 411 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,040 because it's all about access. So we did have that access. 412 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,800 So we're kind of absorbing. We're, we're viewing and we're 413 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,960 absorbing and we're, we're trying to kind of understand the 414 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:55,440 concept of, well, this is a highly trained dancer, but she's 415 00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:00,960 dancing to pop music, but she's trained, I'm trained, but I'm 416 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,760 classically trained. But we still have lots of things 417 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,960 in common. And it's, I think it's 418 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,040 interesting that how much it, it does inform you growing up, 419 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,720 whether you're a dancer or a non dancer, because you're 420 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,960 witnessing it play out in real time. 421 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,320 And some people just love it and they don't think about it. 422 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:23,800 But for someone like yourself, you know, you, you absorbed some 423 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,440 of those qualities and skills that the artist was, I guess, 424 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,920 portraying through the screen, let's say, or at a live concert 425 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,200 or, or even an image, a striking image in a magazine. 426 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,840 And and it informed your artistic route. 427 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:42,320 Yeah, because I think, I mean, there was part of me that when I 428 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,760 was younger, not misunderstood. Yeah, I think maybe 429 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,760 misunderstood what I was inspired by. 430 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,880 Like, I think I thought, oh, I love this so much and I'm really 431 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,200 into it. I and I'm a trained dancer. 432 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,200 I want to be Britney Spears's backup dancer or I want to be 433 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,440 Janet's backup dancer. And it and I and it wasn't for a 434 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,120 while afterwards that I realized no, no, no, no, I'm inspired by 435 00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:06,800 it. To take influences of that into 436 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,200 what I do. I don't want to be her backing 437 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,840 dancer. I'm inspired by the ideas the 438 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,120 choreographer has done and what she does and what the dancers 439 00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:19,160 are doing, and I want to bring that into the ballet world or I 440 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,280 want to bring that into what I choreograph when I choreograph. 441 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,720 And that, that's what, yeah, in a professional way, that's what 442 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:31,720 I can see happened with my relationship to Brittany and 443 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,360 Janet and stuff. And I also have to just add in 444 00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:39,920 actually, after what you've just said, at that time, the idea of 445 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:44,000 becoming a backup dancer was a highly respective, a highly 446 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,720 respective job. Like to be a backing dancer for 447 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,360 Kylie on live TV was hugely respected. 448 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:53,560 And I think now, because everything's so easily 449 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:58,320 accessible, we've lost a little bit of, of that prestige and, 450 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,560 and there's less of it now. So, you know, the goal isn't to 451 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,720 be a backup dancer. The goal is actually to be 452 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,360 famous yourself and quickly without any skill set, right? 453 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,480 But true, I mean, I mean it is true. 454 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:16,000 But again, because we were all at home watching Top of the 455 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:21,520 Pops, seeing Madonna on stage or whoever with these dancers, she 456 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,960 like, wow, they are performing here. 457 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,360 But then they would also be performing with her on the 458 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:29,360 German version of Top of the Pops next week on the Australian 459 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:31,560 version of Top of the Pops. A week afterwards, they'd also 460 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,240 be going on tour with her. They'd also be doing her music 461 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:35,960 videos. Like if you look back in the 462 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,840 day, I mean, I can speak for Janet and Brittany, you can see 463 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,880 the same dancers in everything, in every performance, in every 464 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,240 video. Like people are hired for like a 465 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,760 period of time back then and would do everything. 466 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,040 So it was such a prestigious job. 467 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:54,480 It was like kind of joining a company. 468 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,160 Yeah, it really, it really, really, truly was. 469 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,400 Truly was. They must have had a great time, 470 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:05,000 Fantastic time. I think also back then, you 471 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,000 know, not to go down a depressing rabbit hole, but 472 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,640 there wasn't much representation in the media. 473 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,640 I never saw a gay male dancer on TV. 474 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,960 So which is why there are these people who are gay icons. 475 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,120 You're Judy Garland, you're Kylie Minogue's, you're Cher, 476 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,440 you're Madonnas. They're there because the gay 477 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,280 man didn't have someone to look at in the media that was a gay 478 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,880 man. So they found these people to be 479 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,360 their icons because they represented what they felt or 480 00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:37,680 they also accepted the gay community. 481 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,560 So I think there was that also side of it that I was so 482 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,640 obsessed with Brittany and Janet because there wasn't a gay male 483 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,280 version of that to look up to, if that makes sense. 484 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,760 No, definitely and certainly and I think yeah, things have have 485 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,800 improved massively. But with, you know, we're 486 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,320 talking specifically all of that time. 487 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,320 And yeah, we would. We would. 488 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,040 I think I can. I can speak as a community. 489 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,280 I speak for the entire community. 490 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,920 We would gravitate towards those kind of icons for for those 491 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,000 reasons you've you've you've laid out. 492 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,480 Yeah. For me, it was Madonna first. 493 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,960 Always has been. Adored Madonna, the drama of it 494 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,280 all. But the dancing. 495 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,520 I mean, she was a trained dancer before she started, you know, 496 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,600 hustling in New York as a young. Was she a contemporary? 497 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,240 Dancer I I I kind of want to say Alvin Ailey school on 498 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,320 scholarship, but then you know her ambition and her drive you 499 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:36,920 know took her to where she is now. 500 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:41,360 I mean, goodness, but the routines and, and also Janet, of 501 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,720 course, and Paula Abdul who informed Janet and, and, and 502 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,160 let's just be clear, we're speaking specifically to pop 503 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,720 icons when because of course we have, you know, the Josephine 504 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,360 Baker's, we've got the Gene Kelly's, the Ginger Rogers that, 505 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,520 you know, we're not talking his, you know, those kind of 506 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,600 references. We're specifically discussing on 507 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,000 this episode the pop culture and the access that we had growing 508 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,000 up and how it how it's informed us. 509 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:16,160 But, and it sadly is a nostalgia that we, we step back into now, 510 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,400 you know, all that we kind of go onto YouTube and look at all 511 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,320 videos. And actually I do, I do want our 512 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,840 listeners to when they have a moment to go onto YouTube and 513 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,840 check out some 90s, late 90s, early 2000 music videos. 514 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,720 Because you will see how complicated some of those 515 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,880 routines are. And yes, maybe some of them, 516 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,800 some of the stars, some of the singers are lip syncing, but 517 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,920 that's because they had to because those you cannot sing 518 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,760 and do those routines. It's one of the things that 519 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,600 people always use to bitch about Britney lip syncing. 520 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,800 Like you try and dance like that and sing. 521 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,560 It's impossible. It's impossible. 522 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,040 And also be the face. That's the difference. 523 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,320 Exactly. Exactly. 524 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,120 In musicals, in the ensemble, you sing and dance. 525 00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:59,880 It's like, yes, but you don't stand there with a camera in 526 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:01,920 your face and have to look $1,000,000 all the time. 527 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,440 It's very different. Is very, very different. 528 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,480 And I know maybe there are some people listening thinking, well, 529 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,000 musical theatre, they're singing their hearts out and dancing, 530 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,920 but they weren't. But it's created in a different 531 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,840 way. A musical theatre performance is 532 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,360 is you know, there are moments for breath and there are moments 533 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,360 for repose and you're not carrying the entire show. 534 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,320 You may be the lead, but you're not singing every track. 535 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,640 Well, exactly. And also in a Britney Spears 536 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,360 song. Let's just say those songs are 537 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,680 made to be recorded. They're not made to be sung 538 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,760 live. So a musical theatre piece is 539 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,960 made to be sung every single day and made to be danced and sung 540 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,640 to. Whereas let's just say Britney 541 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,440 Spears track, There's no breath in it because she records the 542 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,600 verse that goes straight into the court or like where she, you 543 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,160 know what I mean? It's made for a recording. 544 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,360 So then when you're doing it live, it's a very different 545 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,080 kettle of fish. But I want to jump back to 546 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,440 Madonna for you because I know very interested in fashion and 547 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,800 everything apart from the dancing. 548 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,120 Did Madonna or was there also a fashion side of it that drew you 549 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,040 to Madonna? Because she was drama and 550 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,600 everything, but she also was very fashion. 551 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,560 Certainly, I mean, I, I mean, I adored Madonna growing up. 552 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,960 I everything about her. But yeah, the fashion played a 553 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,080 large part because she was very provocative. 554 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,400 And at the time, of course, I, I didn't have the understanding to 555 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,600 of why I was so attracted to her because it certainly wasn't a 556 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,000 sexual thing as a, you know, even before I realized I was 557 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,040 gay, you know, because you don't, you don't know you're gay 558 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,280 your entire life. You know, you have to grow into 559 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,200 that idea and, and, you know, emotional understanding and 560 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:49,040 emotional maturity. But I certainly adored her and 561 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,800 the fashion and the music videos and the tours and, and just 562 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,280 everything about her, you know, such a strong performative 563 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,560 figure. I absolutely loved her. 564 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,560 And I, I always have this memory of being like at ballet school 565 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,680 and not really knowing how to dance outside of classical 566 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,200 ballet. And I remember when she released 567 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:15,400 a track with the guy who's the American guy that was in Wayne's 568 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,400 World. We're going back, back, back 569 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,720 now. Oh God, He's the voice of Shrek. 570 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,280 He's the voice of Shrek. Oh, Mike Myers. 571 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:29,640 Yes, and the and keep going help help an old ballerina out the 572 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,040 the film where Beyoncé was also in and he's got he's the English 573 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,240 guy with the glasses and. The Austin Powers. 574 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:36,960 Yeah, Austin Powers. There we go. 575 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,800 Madonna. Madonna recorded a track for 576 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,880 Austin Powers and in that video. Oh yeah, I haven't. 577 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,920 We met, you know, that track she's dancing kind of quirky. 578 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,520 And at that time, in real time, I was like, I'm going to adopt. 579 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,440 I like the way she's moving in that video. 580 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,200 I'm going to try that when I when I'm next at the Shadow 581 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,440 Lounge. I know what you mean. 582 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,120 And it worked for me. I kind of found my groove. 583 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:07,320 I kind of found a way to move through watching her that I 584 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:12,400 wasn't getting at ballet school. And and that's always stuck with 585 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,120 me because I really had, you know, a memory of I can't dance 586 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,800 because I'm, I'm so classically trained. 587 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,880 Everything is so disciplined and refined and contained. 588 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,120 I don't know how to shake it off and be free because I didn't go 589 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,440 to like a multi dance school you. 590 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,320 Went to a ballet. Yeah, it was ballet, ballet, 591 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,720 ballet, ballet. Throw in some Russian character 592 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,040 work, some fencing, you know what I mean? 593 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,000 It wasn't really giving you throw. 594 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,640 In some fencing. But I hated, so I was really 595 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,720 grateful to having that kind of access. 596 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,600 So I. But if you watch her, I mean, I 597 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,560 remember, yes, OK, fine, you've got the voguing in the 80s or 598 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,880 whatever. But if you do look at that video 599 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,360 that you're talking about example. 600 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,360 But also if you look at her video when she's dancing with 601 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,400 Madonna, if you dance with Madonna, when she's dancing with 602 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,640 Britney, if you see when she's dancing in the hung up video, 603 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,600 the ABBA influence song. Love that song, yeah. 604 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:16,400 It's not your Michael Jackson, Britney, you know, cool locking 605 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,480 commercial dancing. There is a little bit odd, 606 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,159 quirky contemporaness about it all the time. 607 00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:25,960 She is slightly odd when she dances. 608 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,440 Isn't that also the one she does with Justin? 609 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,560 He's doing his Justin dancing and then suddenly she's like, 610 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,040 you know, doing Graham Curves or something on the floor. 611 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,400 On top of a car. Exactly. 612 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,000 She's always doing the quirky choice over in the corner. 613 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,880 Yeah, it is interesting. Her choreographic choices are 614 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,920 very interesting and they've proven to be very provocative 615 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:54,199 and therefore in the limelight and, and she has, she has grown 616 00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:59,600 and evolved, which is why she's lasted so long, you know, but I 617 00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:03,720 mean, talk about informative, you know, cultural references. 618 00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:06,640 She's, she's up there at the at the very, very top. 619 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:11,280 Completely. I remember when I was, I think 620 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,720 again, it must be 19 or 20 or something like that, and I 621 00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:17,160 remember. Do you remember? 622 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,480 Maya, yes. So Maya came out with the song 623 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,240 Case of the X. Love it, still play it to this 624 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,000 day. That dance routine, I remember 625 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,960 watching her and she again was a dancer, dancer, dancer. 626 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,280 She was there in the middle of the desert dancing with a stick, 627 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,200 doing proper choreography. And I was like. 628 00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:36,920 Oh. Again, someone who's really 629 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,840 talented and then I went down a rabbit hole. 630 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,560 She used to be a Broadway dancer doing tap. 631 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,480 She's like a Tapper and then ended up doing Chicago with 632 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,320 yourself. But sadly she doesn't really 633 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,120 dance in Chicago. She didn't really. 634 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,120 She was like the last Cellblock Tango girl. 635 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,560 She didn't really do much. Random side note, those first 2 636 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:04,840 girls in Cellblock Tango. Oh my God, they are amazing. 637 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:09,320 Those ladies can dance. And that film is spectacular, 638 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,120 actually. It's very hard to beat. 639 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:15,840 But that they are Immaculate, their delivery, their training. 640 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,880 And I want to say that those two women are actually from the 641 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,800 Broadway show. That I don't know. 642 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,600 But she kicks her leg, you know, she's pulling away from the guy 643 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,720 with the red silk. Like they had this red silk to 644 00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:29,840 show how they killed them. So like, I stabbed him in the 645 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,760 stomach, Shenae's away or whatever is and then is holding 646 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,920 like a big red silk. And I remember her doing like a 647 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,280 massive kick and putting over the silk. 648 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,400 Yeah, it's really an amazing. Film the dancing in Chicago in 649 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,280 that Chicago was fantastic. Yes, that was Maya and she did 650 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,440 also a song. Maya because I started following 651 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,040 her because she was a good dancer. 652 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,320 So I then started following her and listening. 653 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,800 She didn't become that celebrated outside of the US. 654 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,760 She was still huge in the US, but she wasn't that big in the 655 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,840 UK. When I remember she released a 656 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,400 song, I think it was called My Love is Like Whoa. 657 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,120 And in it she did. Instead of having a dance break 658 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,160 how most songs did, she had a dance break that was tap. 659 00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:11,280 And she did like this whole tap routine and everything. 660 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:12,560 It was fucking great. Yeah. 661 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,680 And also, you know, if you are inspired to get get on YouTube, 662 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,280 I'm pretty certain she does. There was like a celebration 663 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,800 concert for maybe I want to say Janet Jackson. 664 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,680 And there's a scene where she's dancing in front of a mirror but 665 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,680 on stage for Janet Jack. And she's brilliant. 666 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,360 So it's the empty listeners out there. 667 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,120 So it's MTV icon and it was Janet Jackson. 668 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,800 I think she was the first recipient of this. 669 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:44,160 And they did a choreography and I think the first one is Usher I 670 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:45,240 want. To say is. 671 00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:49,200 Dancing with They're basically recreating famous videos from 672 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,800 hers, and I cannot remember what video that one is, sorry, but 673 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,560 she dancing in a suit with a big hat and dancing with newspapers. 674 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,000 Yes, yes, yes. Then it goes into Maya dancing 675 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,200 in front of the mirror, which is what Janet did. 676 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,160 And it's, yeah, like you said, it's great. 677 00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:06,720 So many great moments, yeah. But yeah, I mean, Paula Abdul 678 00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:09,960 was, well, let's name and shame some of these choreographers 679 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,120 because they never get their, they never get their roses, in 680 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,600 my opinion. Like we all, I mean, I know 681 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,600 we're from the ballet world, but you know, some ballet 682 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:19,880 choreographers are household names. 683 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,280 I don't think some of these choreographers are household 684 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,640 names, but Paula Abdul was a choreographer. 685 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,920 Yes, she was. She was Janet's choreographer 686 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,960 and then released music and became a singer herself. 687 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,080 Jennifer Lopez was one of Janet's backup dancers. 688 00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:37,760 Yes, she certainly was. I think is it in? 689 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,240 That's the way, love. That's the way love goes. 690 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,480 Yeah, she's in. She's in the video and that Tina 691 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:48,080 Landon, who did all of like she bangs and I think she did 692 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,440 Together Again by Janet and she did Livin La Vida Loca. 693 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,080 She did Ginny in a bottle. That's all Tina Landon. 694 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,200 And you can also find on YouTube Tina Landon doing like a mega 695 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:01,080 mix of her choreographies. So it's it's like some kind of, 696 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,160 I don't know if it's a celebration concert or if it's 697 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,280 an MTV thing. But yeah, Tina Landon, the 698 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,800 choreographer is there taking the place of the Christina 699 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,920 Aguilera, the Ricky Martin, the whoever is in the centre of the 700 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,160 routine and doing all of her own choreographies. 701 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,240 And then obviously then you've got Brian Friedman, slave for 702 00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:21,080 you. I mean iconic. 703 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:25,160 Oh my God, that video sent me over the edge. 704 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,840 I wanted to be every single character in that video. 705 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:32,200 I wanted to be wearing a pink shredded crop top with with body 706 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,240 glitter and a shaggy fringe with long blonde hair. 707 00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:38,760 Like I was living for that music video. 708 00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:43,360 It was so like, I mean, remember the first time you saw it, it 709 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:50,400 was like, this is iconic, right? Now and then the famous MTV 710 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,440 performance straight after that where basically it was they 711 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,760 managed to, you know, create that entire world that you 712 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,080 create in a music video, which is easy because it's not easy, 713 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,320 but you know what I mean? A music video is easier to 714 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,560 create a land than in a live performance where you're on 715 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,360 stage for three minutes. You just have to do something. 716 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:12,160 And they managed to then create this Slave for You universe at 717 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,640 the MTV Awards, with Britney dancing famously with the Python 718 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,280 And all. This kind of stuff like. 719 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,000 So good. Brian Friedman, Tina Landon, 720 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:25,040 Wade Robson, Like, oh, these people need to be household 721 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,320 names in my opinion as much As for. 722 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,800 Sure. McMillan and Wayne McGregor 723 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,720 Because more people have seen their choreographies than have 724 00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:35,640 seen Kenneth Mcmillan's choreographies, I would like to. 725 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,720 Say definitely. The amount of people who have 726 00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:40,880 seen slave for you and you know they need their roses. 727 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:47,320 So here you are, I'm giving you roses, we'll say, jumping onto 728 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,160 what you said about Madonna back then. 729 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,200 Again, because of many reasons, because of TV dying out, because 730 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,480 of the music industry not earning as much money as it used 731 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,680 to when used to sell physical LP's and physical CDs and stuff. 732 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,520 The quality and the people involved in these photo shoots 733 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,640 and these music videos, I mean, think of the Madonna Ray of 734 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,400 Light album. It was shot by Mario Testino. 735 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,240 Amazing album. Music video shot by David 736 00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:17,520 Lechapelle. Yeah, Like it. 737 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,160 It wasn't just, you know, a little music video. 738 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,240 It was, like you said, high conceptual, high quality. 739 00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:28,400 It it was a a movie. It was an experience. 740 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,600 Yeah, a production. It was a full production, you 741 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,720 know, with the best creatives in the biz, you know, creating 742 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:42,920 amazing, almost fantastical art really, rather than, you know, 743 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:47,360 and I know style and and trends change, you know, and we're, 744 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,200 we're quite good now at wanting to keep things kind of 745 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,600 minimalist clean. But you know, certainly during 746 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,720 those times, again, referring to the late 90s, you know, early 747 00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:03,440 mid 2000's, the bigger the budget, the more extreme and 748 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,080 sometimes shocking, you know, to provoke more provoking, the 749 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,160 better. And we really, we really wanted 750 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,560 to step into that level of escapism. 751 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:18,440 And I think that's what it is, is that escapism that I feel I I 752 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:23,720 can't find nowadays unless I go to the cinema or go to the 753 00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:26,640 theater. And I think I would say that, 754 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,480 you know, these music videos did mean a lot to me growing up 755 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,840 because, you know, you can't afford to go to this. 756 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,680 I mean, that's just ridiculous. You cannot go to the theater 757 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,000 every single week. You know, no one has that budget 758 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,520 to be able to go to the theatre every single week to see, you 759 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,480 know, these fantastical productions and have that 760 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,400 escapism and have that inspiration. 761 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,200 You do need to be able to find inspiration and have that 762 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:52,560 escapism from other places. And I feel that we were really 763 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:57,440 lucky to have as dancers they speaking very specifically about 764 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,680 dance because yes, you can have escapism by watching a Netflix 765 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,920 documentary or a Netflix TV series. 766 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,400 They're also fantastical TV series that are being made right 767 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,880 now. But it's the dance, It is the 768 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,960 performance that I'm missing. I'm missing seeing a 769 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:17,440 choreographed dance routine that shot fantastically in the middle 770 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,640 of a desert somewhere with professional dancers. 771 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,400 And there is a new one coming out every single week. 772 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,600 And there's a live dance performance happening every 773 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,840 single Friday with trained dancers and proper choreography. 774 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:35,440 And I miss that level of that. I think I miss that standard of 775 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,680 seeing that level of professionalism, both in the 776 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,280 artistic, you know, in photography and video, 777 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:47,360 videography and concept, but also the standard of dancers, 778 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,840 because they're still out there. You know, the schools are still 779 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,400 churning them out. But do I only get to see them if 780 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,320 I go and watch Taylor Swift's tour? 781 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,080 That's not accessible for everybody. 782 00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:01,240 It was more we had access and I think it's, I'm really thankful 783 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,480 for the access that we had and. I think, you know, just going on 784 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,440 from that, I suppose there is an evolution because that really 785 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:15,520 sounds familiar in terms of if you think back to those old MGM 786 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,680 classics where the production, the scale of production on those 787 00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:24,960 beautiful black and white films, you know, where they pulled so 788 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,880 much money. If they could speak today, they 789 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,200 would probably argue the same argument that we're we're 790 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,280 discussing in that we know where has that level of production 791 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,280 gone? But you know, we still have 792 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,480 those, those references, but we're keeping it quite niche 793 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,920 with, you know, pop culture and, and it is intertwined with 794 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,200 changing trends because let's face it, we've already discussed 795 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,880 if we're not really watching TV, then the only the only outlet we 796 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,560 have is on our phones. And if the trend is TikTok and 797 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,480 quick fixes, quick routines, then there's no chance other 798 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,680 than kind of living in the past, so to speak. 799 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,440 But I think it's really, really important to still acknowledge, 800 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,000 you know, the historical, it sounds like we're so old, but 801 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:14,320 the historical value of the of those times. 100% because it is 802 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,360 that kind of thing. You know, I saw it, I saw an 803 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,600 interview the other day that said that Hollywood is dumbing 804 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,480 down storylines and dumbing down performances because you have to 805 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:27,200 create something on TV that you can watch and follow the 806 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,680 storyline whilst also scrolling on your phone. 807 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,480 So if sometimes they're saying that Hollywood executives, if 808 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,400 the story comes in, that's too complicated, they shut it down 809 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,320 and like you have to make the story simpler because I need to 810 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:39,880 be able to follow it while I'm not paying attention. 811 00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:44,080 And it's kind of that whole dumbing down thing that I feel 812 00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,840 is a little bit what I'm talking about with with the TikTok, 813 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,720 because it's not the TikTok. I sound like an element. 814 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,560 That TikTok. That TikTok, the TikTok because, 815 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,760 yeah, unless, you know, I'm going on Beyoncé's specific 816 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,560 TikTok account and saying what she's released, then where where 817 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,000 is the the dance? Where's the professional dance? 818 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,440 Yeah. And I think if we're, if we're 819 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,560 genuinely interested in it, we have to be responsible also as 820 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,920 an individual and, and investigate and research. 821 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,080 And I mean, I think that applies to most things in life. 822 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,240 But if you're, if you're keen on learning, you know, the 823 00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:27,160 progression of dance and you can go back as far back as you wish. 824 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:31,280 We are, again, I repeat, we're specifically discussing a very 825 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:37,800 niche period 90s, but it is really important to get online 826 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,120 because that is our access point, isn't it? 827 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,000 Now, let's face it and look at these images, look at these 828 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,920 videos and you know, and explore because they can be just as 829 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,560 rewarding re watching as they were the very first time. 830 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,880 You know, and, and again, most people may not have seen these 831 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,680 music videos from from that time period and, and, and it's very 832 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,000 easy to get stuck into a loop, but it's so informative and it's 833 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:02,920 just, and it's also a joy just to watch. 834 00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:06,080 It is and just I want to. The reason why I started this 835 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:10,120 conversation thinking about it was that yes, US dancers will go 836 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,480 and investigate and we will go and look at stuff, but it's more 837 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,200 the audiences, people who maybe didn't want to watch dance or 838 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,120 aren't interested in dance or didn't think they were 839 00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,280 interested in dance back then. We're getting dance thrown in 840 00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,200 the face and it maybe would spark a new interest. 841 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,000 It would spark interest in in dance. 842 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,680 And that's why I'm, I don't know, there's part of me that 843 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,800 might be a little bit worried of how we going to loop audiences 844 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,960 in to come and see the newest ballet, the newest musical, the 845 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,280 newest contemporary show, the newest whatever. 846 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:46,960 If you're not having music videos or music performances on 847 00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,320 top of the pots being thrown down your neck that make you go, 848 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,440 Oh, I like that. Oh, I didn't realise I liked 849 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,560 dancing. Oh, I do like dancing because 850 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:54,800 otherwise where are you seeing it? 851 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,600 Where is it being thrown at you? And I think that's there's a 852 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:03,400 slight worry in my head there about are we going to, Yeah. 853 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,000 Where's the new audience coming from? 854 00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:08,360 So jump on the Internet like Denise says. 855 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,680 And Google, what's that thing you did with the Castanet? 856 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,520 Oh. My God I forgot we brought that 857 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:21,560 up already. Don't Google it. 858 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:28,040 So everybody go and get some inspiration. 859 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,440 Yes, go and watch the DVD of Janet Jackson in Hawaii or 860 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:35,080 Britney in Vegas. But seriously, thank you 861 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,280 everybody for listening to another episode of Drinks at the 862 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:39,880 Bar. Please remember to tell your 863 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:44,680 friends, your colleagues, your fellow dance enthusiasts all 864 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,480 about our podcast. Yeah, we'd really appreciate it. 865 00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,840 Thanks again. And we hope that you tune in 866 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,920 next week for another episode of Drinks at the Bar. 867 00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,240 Take care, it's been a pleasure. As always darling, lots of love, 868 00:48:57,240 --> 00:48:58,360 big kiss, bye.