Hello and welcome to Drinks at the Bar, a podcast where we
breakthrough the 4th wall and discuss everything about dance
and the theatre industry. My name is Paul James Rooney, a
dancer, choreographer and dance teacher based in Copenhagen, and
I am your host of Drinks at the Bar.
Today I am joined by my regular guest host, the sleek,
sophisticated showgirl that is Damien Lee Stoke.
Hi everybody, I'm Damien Lee Sturt, director of the Dancer
Studio London, classical ballet teacher and actor with the Royal
Ballet. Here we will discuss everything
from hearing backstage stories, touring shenanigans, to deeper
issues like body image training, the reality of being a freelance
dancer, and much more. With guest professionals, we are
here to share our knowledge, experience, and help you with
any questions or problems you may have about dance and
navigating the dance world. Oh, Bonjour.
You are back from Liverpool. I'm back from tour.
I've been on tour all week. It's been amazing.
And yes, I was speaking in my Scout accent pretty much all the
time. It's my favorite.
How was it? How was it being back on tour?
It was brilliant, a little surreal at first, but in the
best way. You know what it's like getting
a call to meet at the station and then you board the train
together that I think there were 97 of us at the station.
So it's a huge undertaking for Amy, who's the lovely and
amazing company manager. But it was seamless.
I think she organized pre boarding, which I didn't even
know you could do in London. OK, that and and it was it was
brilliant. We arrived in Liverpool.
It was a 10 minute walk to the hotel.
Lovely hotel, lovely room. Couldn't have asked for a better
set up. And yeah, I just had a really
great week. Where are you performing?
We were at the Empire Theatre, which is basically just next
door to Liverpool Lime Street Station, so a different venue,
but because the only time I've ever performed in Liverpool
actually was with the Johann Strauss Gala that was at a
concert hall. So it was really lovely.
And I did get quite emotional actually on the first day
because I had the morning free because my granddad was
originally from Liverpool and I haven't been to Liverpool since
he passed. And it was just really, really
lovely to be there. The sun was shining.
We were really lucked out on the weather actually.
It was cold, but it was beautiful weather.
And just to see the sights of Liverpool, I, I really hadn't
taken into account how amazing the city was.
So it was a really, it was a brilliant week, yeah.
Lovely to be honest. Manchester, Liverpool,
Birmingham have had so much money infused into them.
They're completely different places to what they were when we
were kids. Honestly it felt like Manhattan
to me. The built the architecture, it
was just, it was great. They've, they've done an amazing
job at building, building this, this city up and, and, and
maintaining that like the lovely heritage architecture.
And in fact, my lovely friend Natalie, who's a makeup artist,
she, she lives in Chester. So she, she came over on the
last days on Saturday. We had lunch after my first show
and then she watched the evening performance.
But in between, when we grabbed a bite to eat, we actually ended
up at a place that felt very American and the food was
delicious and and honestly felt like I was in Manhattan.
It was, it was lovely. Oh, that's really lovely.
And now I'm back in London, I've had another fitting for my
costume today with Royal for the Ausie Pova programme.
So that's very exciting. Seeing this costume getting
built is just, it's exciting. You'll see when I'm allowed to
take photographs once the show has opened.
It is like, I'm so excited and so lucky.
I think at one point today there were five people like just
working on my costume. Oh wow.
And it does feel actually lovely to be back in ballet tights and
some ballet shoes. It's it's, yeah.
Especially after a week with E&B where it, you know, that was an
acting role. So it's nice.
Yeah. And I think actually with the
Sleeping Beauty that we did with E&B, it's so Kenneth McMillan
version of Sleeping Beauty, which is beautiful.
But the costumes, I think we're wearing the original costumes
from the piece was created. The ballet was created in 1973
or 573 or 75. And I think they're the original
costume. So it's nice to be like in black
tights for this new production. And some ballet, some ballet
slippers. You're wearing Elfrida thorough
goods. Original.
She's so tiny. Oh my gosh, I would never get
into get into her costume. But you said that actually
Alfredo was there. Yes, I, I mean, I could be
completely wrong giving you this information, but I heard that
Kenneth gifted her the ballet or, or the Macmillan estate.
I don't know, I'd need to Fact Check that.
But I think that's the reason why she was there restaging it
basically. So she was there every day for
rehearsal. So much energy, but I still have
this image ingrained in my mind of her wearing those.
Do you remember those Peach teaching shoes like Greek
sandals? Grecian.
Sandals, Yeah. Absolutely.
And the amazing feat and, and she had kind of like a warm
brown chestnutty hair when she used to teach at Yorkshire
Ballet seminars and, and you know, so it's lovely to see her.
And there were a few familiar faces and lots of new faces.
So it was great. Fantastic.
Oh, lovely. Well, I had a little photo shoot
and video shoot yesterday. Oh yeah.
I saw so tell me about that if you can.
If you can share. Well, I have a song that I'm
releasing in January, so I was doing some kind of video footage
and photographic for that. Yeah, really exciting.
But in relation to that, I went out to buy some new foundation
because I'd run out of foundation and everything.
And I always forget your your skin does change colour through
your life, like because I've changed shades throughout my
whole career. So people out there, if you're
young and you've been in the industry, maybe just check your
make up every so often. Maybe it doesn't.
It's not your true colour anymore.
But I am now an N2IN face and body.
Oh lovely, I mean it's a lovely foundation.
And if any anyone has any queries, you can always ask
Auntie Denise, I'll match you. But it's now called Studio
Radiance. Yes the formula has changed.
I mean face and body from Mac was one of the earlier
foundations, it wasn't the 1st. That was Studio Fix, which I
still love. They've also changed the formula
to that, which annoyed a lot of people anyway, that's a whole
other segment. But face and body is lovely
because it basically it's water based or it certainly used to
be, but it replicates skin. So it goes on and looks like
skin. So it's it's very popular with
so lovely in the industry and you know, and like for fashion,
fashion models and things that Fashion Week, you know, I
remember polishing the body, legs and arms with face and body
because it's a great body makeup, but but it does come
off. So it's not transfer proof.
I think it's transfer resistant, but it's a great, it's a great
product. It's great because it's, I would
say it's great for a guy because it's not very makeupy.
Yeah. It's you can't really tell
you're wearing anything. Yeah.
It's sheer, it looks like skin, but if you do tend to have
oilier skin, I would say you'd still need to powder over, not
all over. You might need to, you know, in
areas, but you know, I have I have dry skin, so I I don't tend
to need to powder even though I use the powder foundation, but
that's different because I'm moisturizing and that's about
skin care. This segment is has taken a
turn. My mouth is now.
Closed so yes, I was just interested that, you know, my
skin colour has changed yet again and I got a lovely a
lovely makeup artist in the shop colour match me and put it on.
It was literally could not see that I was wearing any makeup.
It was lovely. So I'm really happy with this
new colour. Yeah, that's, that's my, my past
couple of days have been buying makeup and doing a photo shoot.
Well, that's fun, isn't it? Who doesn't?
Who doesn't enjoy shopping for makeup and having the photo
shoot and singing and dancing? You know, exactly, I get so
excited with photo shoots and video shoots because I get, so
I'm so interested in like the whole composition and I don't
just enjoy having my photo taken.
It's the whole like setup of it. And it's, you know, my ideas are
working with the photographer and coming up with the whole,
yeah, the whole idea and what we're going to do and how we're
going to lie to it and what's the props going to be and all of
that kind of stuff. Like, I love the whole process
of it from beginning to end. So yeah, very exciting.
And also, you know, having creative control is very
attractive, isn't it from a lifetime of being a dancer where
we're told what to do a performer do this, stand here,
you know, feel this smile, don't smile.
It's lovely, isn't it, to, to step into those kind of grown up
shoes and basically curate your own experience.
I I love it. I mean, it's one of the main
reasons why I, you know, have released a song every so often,
you know, released some music is because it is something that I
can have complete control over and I can decide and it can be a
yeah from start to finish. It's 100% my say and it's nice
to have that kind of passion project alongside, you know,
like you said, going to work and getting told stand in line, do a
polka, do a mazurka, don't drop your fan and go.
Yeah, it's a good healthy balance, isn't it?
It's a nice way to it's a nice way to live.
Well, have you got yourself a drink, Denise?
I do, actually. I thought I was going to have a
gin and tonic, but it's so cold. I've opted for a warming glass
of Beaujolais, which is, well, it's really because that's all
we had in the house. So what about you?
I have got myself an elderflower spritz.
Oh, how quaint. Well, the Limoncello spritz let
me down. Yeah, we weren't feeling that
and I don't think it was. It was a good try but didn't hit
the mark. But no.
So I've got the elderflower
spritz and it's I've already taken a sip.
I'm sorry. Cheat.
But it's, it's quite botanical, but in a nice way.
It doesn't taste like I'm drinking potpourri, but it's
it's nice, great anyway. So cheers.
Botanical. Before we move on to what we're
supposed to be talking about, I wanted to say I saw on the
Internet the other day, I can't remember who it was.
And I even if I could remember, I wasn't going to name and
shame. But there's a, a company, a
person that is holding workshops, technical workshops
for kids, for students, and they were holding a ballet workshop
for 10 to 18 year olds. I then looked into it because I
thought, OK, yeah, that's fine. You can have a workshop for 10
to 18 year olds. And then I would expect to then
look online and see the 10 year olds are at 2:00, the 14 year
olds are at 5:00. And whatever it is, but it's one
class with all the same people in that class.
And I thought, how on earth can you have a 10 year old and a 17
year old in the same class for ballet, a professional technical
ballet class, a 10 year old and a 17 year old?
I thought that was. What?
Yeah, I mean, I see your point. I mean and I'm and I'm glad that
I'm not teaching that class. I do have a class coming up next
month for 13 to 17 year olds. However, I have outlined for
example, for my class that the minimal level should be
intermediate foundation slash or equivalent.
So it's within a structure of skill set because yeah.
And 10 year olds are very different to 13 year olds,
extremely different. And an adult is 18.
So you know, is the class. So technically, I mean, I don't
even know if you, you're allowed to have 10 to 18 year olds in
the same class because basically it's chill.
It's a child's class. And then the second you turn 18,
you're classified. You know, if in terms of
safeguarding, which is why I keep mine very separate.
My, my age is separate not just for from the perspective of
ages, but also skill set. And also you want to make the
class as comfortable for everybody.
So already in my mind, I have classes and exercises
percolating of OK, well, 13 to 17 is still quite a wide
spectrum and they have to be exercises.
We've discussed this in the past.
You have to be able to offer the opportunity for the student to
adapt an exercise based on your skills on their skill set right
you. Can say to some of those people
in the in the 13 to 17. For example, you can say right?
You this group say Group A just a nice clean single Group B try
for a double. But you guys do double frapping.
You do the fondues on Demi point like when it's 13 to 17.
It's not that I just thought 10 year olds with 18 year olds was
very extreme because like even growth wise, like you going on
points, you should not be going on point at the end of age of 10
years old. And I don't know, I just felt a
little bit sorry to be rude, but cash Cowie.
Yeah, well, it's a little extreme for me that age group
and I wouldn't want to be a 10 year old in class with 1816
seventeen year 18 year olds around me.
And on the other side of that, I don't I wouldn't want to be an
18 year old with sharing a sharing a bar.
Yeah, it's too extreme for me. But yes, I suppose, I guess from
a business perspective if you're trying to cram in as many.
Well, that's all I could think of it was.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard.
I think planning for children's classes is, is it Definitely.
I have found it takes more planning time and orchestration
because you do have to, and again, we've spoken about this
recently, you have to make sure that all of your safeguarding
criteria is aligned. Yes, it's so it takes more work
to build 100. Percent.
To build one of those classes that has kids, basically.
So, yeah. So yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't
wish to to teach such a massive age bracket in the same class.
Yeah, because it's kind of what we've, we've spoken about before
of having these open classes which are general level, say
what is general level? Because they I've seen some
classes advertised which is come as a professional come as a
beginner. Like that can't be the same
class. If I would say a general level
would be maybe not beginner, beginner and up to intermediate
general in advance could be in the same class.
But an absolute beginner and an absolute professional can't
really be in the same class. It puts a lot of work on the
professional themselves. Then they may as well just do
their own class. Like if I'm coming to a class
and it's a very basic level, I'm not really getting that much out
of it, if that makes sense. No.
And I think a general class, I mean it's different.
So I offer a general. I talk.
I'm like you're talking about me.
I feel like very attacked. Oh my God, I'm so sorry.
I don't. I don't.
No, I'll. That's not what I mean.
You you understand what I'm trying to get.
At yeah, I'm only teaching. Yeah, it seems very cash carry.
It's all I can see and I'd see it being, yeah, not beneficial
for for the customer. No, because it isn't so you
know, my adult classes are set at general level and if you go
into the Dancer's Studio London website, you can there's a
breakdown of each level from beginner all the way through to
professional. So you can see where you place
yourself And then next to each workshop will be, you know, the
skill set you need. So for example, my my concept of
general is your intermediate foundation, intermediate
advanced ballpark area with a minimum an absolute minimum of
two years of recent ballet training.
Exactly. That's not a beginner.
I need exactly. And it does say also on most of
the classes, if you feel this workshop isn't suited for you or
you're unsure, write to us and ask us and we can, you know, go
into a bit more detail. But you do need to understand
the ballet vocabulary because otherwise you're just going to
be left behind and it's going to be too difficult and you're not.
And it's a waste of your money as a as a customer.
Totally because you're going to feel self-conscious,
intimidated, which is the opposite of how we want you to
feel. We want you to feel safe and and
have a lovely, lovely time. A little challenge is always
good. We need to be challenged, but
you should, you should feel you've accomplished something
and it should be a positive experience.
So, and I, I think from experience, having done
different levels of classes at certain central London studios
depending on my age. So as a professional dancer, I
would go for the pro class because that's what I needed.
But you would still find, I would still find dancers in that
pro class that were almost kind of beginners plus, you know, so
it's very, it's very difficult for the person who's leading the
class to control who's who's coming to the class.
But there's also a responsibility on the person
who's coming to the class to be realistic.
And that's where it comes down to these advertisements I'm
seeing on social media where you have to stipulate where, where
it where general. General is completely fine to
say like how you use it. That makes sense.
But if you're if you as a business are saying that general
is everything from beginner to professional in one class, you
can't be a beginner beginner because I need to teach you what
first position is that person can't be in the same class as
Darcy Bussell. Agreed.
Sorry, random side note, but it's these things that I see on
social media recently that I don't know.
I just get a little bit frustrated because I, as a
freelance teacher, someone going around teaching, seeing bad
teachers or bad setups, and it's just being, I know we have to
earn our money and I know we have to have a business, but it
just seems like a bad business. Agreed.
And I, I think for me, if I'm seeing, you know, poor
communication online in kind of publicity or Facebook post or an
Instagram post or wherever it is, if it's too general, then it
doesn't give me much confidence that the teacher really
understands the concept of teaching multi skilled and multi
level dance students or attendees.
If, if you're not a student, you know, I think just be really,
really clear what you're offering.
And if you can't be clear what you're offering, then it does
come across as as money grabbing.
Let's let's just get as many people in as possible.
But for me that would not be an enjoyable environment because
people would get in the way and it was.
It's just an annoying experience if you're not surrounded for
everyone, everyone in involved. So yeah, I think communication
and understanding what you're offering is key.
But we you know. You can't do the work for them,
you know they have to. They have to create their own
concepts and and classes and put the work.
And this isn't an episode to say how great the dancer's studio in
London is. But however, however, but what I
think is, is really nice about your, your social media
presence, for example, is that yes, I can read what you've
written, but also a picture tells 1000 words.
I can look at the level or the standard of the people in the
photo graphs and I get straight away what this is.
You don't have a picture of Marionella on point doing, you
know, a video of Marionella doing 32 Fuetes and oh, that's
what I'm doing this week. Like, that's not what you're
doing. And so that's not what you're
showing. And yeah, I will get off my high
horse now and move on to the episode.
And that's very kind. It's, it's great to hear some
feedback. I think I, I, you know, I do
spend a lot, if not all of my free time thinking about
workshops, classes, you know, choreography, the choreography
of setting up a class, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
But even to the point, you know, like you've just mentioned, if
you know, for example, if I'm offering a ballet class at
general level, I've stipulated what the the level of that class
is. I'm not going to post an image
to accompany the workshop criteria with something
unrealistic. So it probably will be the
person in the image will probably be an adult dancer and
most likely not on point or not showing something fantastical
because that's not what the class is about.
So yeah, anyway, moving on because so far we haven't
discussed anything that's on our script.
Right then, well, today I wanted to tell you the origins of a
couple of theatre superstitions, rituals, histories kind of
thing. Brilliant.
Well, I think in that case we must start with chuckers.
Yes, OK everyone, school in session.
Get out your notepads. So here we go for those of you
who maybe don't work in England or in the ballet world.
Chuckers, chuckers, chuckers, however you want to say it,
during the 90s and 2000s, it was a massive thing, way of saying
good luck in the ballet world, especially English National
Ballet. Yeah, it's a good luck thing
that is still said nowadays. And I have researched and I have
found out that chuckers comes from Australian slang, which
would make sense why it is in ENB because there's so many
Australian dancers. It's Australian slang for
chicken. So basically they were saying
chukas because this is what they think.
Obviously you can never be 100% sure but this is what my
research has taught me is that they said chukas because it's a
full house so we can afford a chicken dinner.
Oh my God, I never knew that. Yeah, I never knew that.
And actually it's, it's so entwined with with English
National Ballet that is certainly and for you and I, I
think that was our first taste of, of, of company life.
Even when we were kids, we were the Elizabeth Taylors of the, of
the ballet world. The.
Shirley Temple. The Shirley Temples.
Yeah, we certainly heard that working for the company and IT
and in fact, last week I heard it backstage and it warmed my
heart because I don't really recall ever hearing it at the
Opera House. It's quite specific to English
National Ballet and the dancers that then perhaps go on from
English National Ballet and then share, you know, share the the
tradition, the superstition. But but I certainly didn't know
really why we were saying it. You know, the the history of it.
But how funny? I even think that maybe Hampi
said it last week in his interview.
I have a feeling like listening back that he might have even
said chuckers at one section. Yeah.
But yeah, so we now have enough money to have a chicken dinner
because the house is full. So that's where that comes from.
You like us to that? So next thing, this one I love.
So the French say mad and lots of English people have started
doing it as well, like lots of nationalities now say it as
well, mad instead of instead of saying good luck.
And if you do not work in the theatre industry, you don't say
good luck. So basically all of these are
different ways of saying good luck because it's supposed to be
bad luck to say good luck. So.
So the French say mad. Do you know where that comes
from? Tell me so.
Back in the day, even before your time, the audience would
arrive by horse and cart, right? So I'm nodding.
She's nodding. You remember it well.
I'm just having flashbacks of, you know, horseshit on my
pedicab so. Basically you would say mad
because you would hope the streets outside aligned with
shit because that means that it's a full house and there's
loads of people. So you're saying mad because you
hope there is lots of mad all over the street outside the
front of the theatre because it meant that there was loads and
loads of horse buggies, meaning lots and lots of people have
come to see the show and. I suppose lots of like rich
people because they were the only ones that would, I guess,
turn up in a horse and cart. So the rich, you know,
aristocracy of, you know, of those times.
And hopefully you can bag yourself a husband as well.
Well, exactly. That's what I was going to lead
on to because then of course of that time, you know, the the
ballerinas would be wined and dined, you know, by the rich
clientele. And, you know, they weren't,
they certainly weren't earning a living through their, you know,
paycheck at the Opera House. So they would rely on the
kindness of strangers, let's say, you know, to facilitate
their glamorous lifestyles. It was a great time.
OK, break a leg. Do you know where this comes
from? Break a leg.
I mean no, and I have had access to this script all week.
However, I wanted the element of surprise and no.
But I actually you haven't looked at it because I also
didn't write it in there. I wrote down what I was going to
talk about, but I didn't say the meaning so I could hold court.
Oh, OK, well I well in that case, soon as you've outed me,
then I obviously glanced the script.
Fine, moving on. Oh my God of all knowledge.
OK, so break a leg. I'll break your leg.
OK, break a leg. This is not from me looking up.
This is from what I remember. So it's probably completely
wrong. I think break a leg comes from,
again, wanting a full house and stuff you.
It's more the we want the performance to go really well.
We want it to go so well that everybody claps their hands and
stamps their feet and they stamp their feet so hard that they
break a leg. Oh, OK.
We're hoping the audience break their legs, basically.
Exactly, exactly. And actually thinking about it,
just going on from good luck, I don't know about you, but I
generally don't say good luck at all in any context because I
think we're so accustomed to not saying it backstage that, you
know, we find alternative ways to say have a great show, IE,
yes, have a fantastic show. And if somebody says good luck
to me, I think, isn't it bad luck to respond to somebody
saying good luck? Well, that's what I was going to
say. In Denmark, I've heard people
say cat befra, which mean, which basically translates to cat
backwards and cat is tac. So thank you.
So basically you're saying the word thank you backwards and
you're saying thank you backwards so you're not having
to say thank you. Does that make any sense?
Yes. So they acknowledge, they
acknowledge it, but they but without having to say, yeah,
thank you. Yeah, exactly.
But I don't know. And I did look around, I
couldn't really find out why the Danish people say poi, poi.
I don't know where that comes from because that's also very
similar to is it the French as well?
They say toy, toy. Toy.
Yeah, absolutely.
So I've heard toy toy and I've heard poi poi and I, I don't
know if it's just kind of random noises and it doesn't mean
anything because obviously Merritt is a word and break a
leg is a sentence. But yeah.
It's interesting that, I mean, we sound like mad, absolute mad
artists, don't we? With all of our kind of lingo
and superstitions. But it is part of the drama.
And you know, if you ever found yourself backstage, you know,
most people say actually the show is happening backstage.
All of the choreography that happens backstage and the
interactions and the drama, it is a lot of fun.
And there's something very fulfilling and rewarding when
you've done a show long enough and you've got all the mechanics
of where you need to be, at what time quick changes you get into
a routine. You know, certainly for a show
that's kind of long running and it's, you know, it's so much
fun. It's don't get me wrong, it's an
absolute delight performing on stage to a live audience.
But there's something the buzz of backstage with your, you
know, dancers around you and your friends and, and the
routine and the discipline and the focus that it requires.
But there are still moments where you can have fun.
And it's just the whole experience is really.
And those moments when you're in the green room and you're having
a giggle, I mean, it's always with James you're having, you're
having a giggle with James in the dressing room and then you
hear the music and you peg it from the green room and you're
literally a laughing on stage bum in character.
Those moments, I just love it. The backstage moments are, I
mean, from, from what I've, when I've spoken to lots of my
friends who have, who are now teachers, all completely left
the dance world or whatever. The thing they miss the most is
not the dancing, it's the dressing rooms.
It's the rehearsals, but not the rehearsals, the chatting at the
back of rehearsals. You know, it's all, it's all
that kind of part of it that they miss.
It's not the actual physical dancing or ballet class or
performing. It's more the camaraderie or
the, yeah, the whole company feeling and the gossiping in the
dressing room when you're doing your makeup and.
Yeah, I loved all of that, as you well know, because it was
you and I doing lots of fun in the dressing room.
And it's amazing how much energy energy you have, isn't it, as a
younger dancer? Because if you think about what
you're expending on stage, all that energy and yet, but it's,
it's the endorphins, isn't it? So it kind of Revs you up.
So you're just on a high all the time.
And then it takes a while to kind of wind down.
And that has never left me. I still cannot get to bed early.
It's just part of my, you know, my mechanics now I'm just, I
just stay up late. I try not to eat too late.
You know, particularly I'm not performing, but I cannot shake
off that post performance kind of routine of needing some time
to kind of just ground myself before I'm ready to sleep.
It's just able now. I don't think it will ever leave
us. Well, we're still on stage.
But I think also, I mean, the thing about the dressing room
and having that energy in the dressing room, obviously it
depends on what show you're doing.
But for example, when you were doing, I don't know, the Taran
tellers in Napoli that kind of like buzz backstage can Rev you
up because then we're supposed to be on stage in a Taran teller
having energy and having a party altogether.
And it does help you arrive at the character.
Now, obviously, maybe I wouldn't be pissing about in the dressing
room just before I go on stage if I was doing a dying scene and
something like, yeah, sometimes it does help you get into
character or get the energy and everybody coming together.
And because I'm not that performer that stands in the
green room and hold hands with everybody and says a prayer all
together before I go on stage. And I'm not that person.
And that's fine if you are that person.
Everyone needs their own thing before they go on stage.
But I'm I'm not a let's all center energy, OK, and then go
on stage. No, that's sorry.
That's not me. No, you were more, you were more
stage door having a cigarette. I was more stage door with gappa
sand have a cigarette put it out.
I can hear bum bum but I'm bad up but get on stage.
Good times. Those were the days.
We haven't discussed whistling, whistling just in general.
How do you feel about whistling? Well, I will say that when I
hear people whistling backstage, it does make me irate because
I'm so kind of like old school. And again, it's like what we
spoke about with turning away from the bar and all this kind
of stuff. Like if you don't say it, that
it's not going to pass on to the next generation.
So if these people have not been told don't whistle backstage,
they're going to whistle backstage.
Why can we not whistle backstage?
Denise, tell us all. Well, my interpretation is that
way back when, that's how the crew would communicate, you
know, for flying in the cloth or for changing or switching up set
or, or or lighting perhaps. And, and so in order to not
miscommunicate, you would only whistle in a specific way to
communicate with what needs to happen at that said time.
So if you were randomly whistling, you could be saying
all sorts of things. I mean, it's not really that
trendy to whistle anyway, you know, It's not like everyone's
has the the urge to whistle. However, if you're not
accustomed to those traditions and superstitions, it'd be quite
easy just to kind of passively whistle and then have a very icy
glare from Paul James Rooney backstage.
I think it has to do with something to do with sailors
used to do that when they were pulling ropes and maybe
technicians back in the day were sailors when they were on shore
or something like that. There is some sailor stuff you
can hear. I've done a lot of research for
this episode. From Sailor stuff.
Moving on. I will.
So I will say though, jumping on from from that is also the
Scottish play, like Macbeth. And some people don't even like
saying it like we're saying right now, like they already be
like, oh, it's a Scottish play. You mean like, no, I mean
Macbeth. I'm not doing a show tonight.
And that comes from, from my understanding that comes from
Macbeth is a very technical play, especially back in the day
before there was all these fancy fantasy machines and whatever.
There's lots of fighting, there's lots of swords.
And it was just a play that had lots of injuries involved in it.
So it's kind of, you didn't say Macbeth backstage because that
play kind of has, it's kind of a very unlucky play.
There was always lots of injuries.
It's kind of always haphazard. That might not be the word
accident prone. It was a very accident prone
play. There was always things going
wrong in Macbeth because it was so technical and because there
was so much fighting and all this kind of stuff.
It was injury prone. And so that's why you didn't say
the Scottish play. And also following up from that,
when I was looking online I found this.
So it says if someone accidentally says it.
Tradition. Say it to me.
Say it. No, I can't.
I can't. It's like, no, because I can't
say the word that I can't say. You know that film, that horror
film where you say his name three times?
It's related to sugary bon bons? I don't want to say it.
I'm don't say it, I'm home alone here.
However, if someone accidentally says it, tradition dictates they
must leave the theatre, spin three times, spit, swear and
knock before re entering to dispel the curse.
My flamenco teacher used to make us do that.
If we whistled in the classroom. Oh God, she would make us go
outside the studio. Cheryl Wexler, she used to make
us go outside and do exactly that.
Turn around, spit on the floor, swear before you came in again.
Oh wow. I mean, I kind of secretly love
it, but that I mean that's high maintenance even for me.
Talking about Cheryl Wexler, I will just quickly sidebar on
this. So she was my flamenco teacher
and she taught me a lot of flamenco, funny enough.
A lot of flamenco. So she taught us flamenco and
something that she did tell me was that, for example,
Bournenville, where I'm now in Denmark, Bournenville's got lots
of his ideas for his technique and for his style of dancing
from the national dancers in Spain.
They do lots of like Little von de Jaan's, they call them Marone
fans and lots of small battery and footwork and lots of that,
like Escuela Bolero School of dancing in Spain is where
Bonneville got inspiration for all of his quick footwork and
his, you know, 11 de Jean Sotte's and his ceases and all
that battery and all that kind of intricate footwork comes from
Spanish national dancing. Oh.
How fabulous. And it does make sense if you,
if you think about it, doesn't it?
The quick footwork and the, you know, the, the dynamic how, how
interesting. Yeah, you know, we can talk
about it for ages, like serendipity and how your life
works. But like, my first job, my very
first job when I graduated school was.
I'm sure it's still out there. So you can find it.
But there is a teaching video for these Escuela Bolero
exercises. So like a full on ballet class
with castanets. And I'm demonstrating all the
exercises. So they're doing like pirouettes
with castanets and double tours with castanets and all this kind
of old fashioned national dancing Spanish stuff.
And I'm wearing black tights to below the knee, white tights
underneath that with black ballet shoes.
And then Fast forward, because it knows how many years, I then
moved to Denmark and I ended up doing Bonneville every single
day of my life. It was written in the stars.
It's got nothing to do with the fact that she can't turn and
she's really short because Bonneville loves nothing more
than a double. Follow the work.
So we if you are like me and you are short, you like battery and
you can't turn. Have a go on these castanets.
Have a go on these castanets and I'll see you in a couple of
months. So one other thing I'd love to
just chant about briefly is this concept, this idea of having a a
ghost light or having a single light that remains on stage even
after all the dancers and the crew and the, you know, the
audience after everyone has gone home.
This idea of having a light on stage and.
We have left the theatre before that happened, so I've never
really witnessed it, but I, my understanding is that it's kept
on practically. It's so that if any maintenance
were to happen, or for the people that are coming into the
theatre, I suppose at early doors to do whatever they need
to do, it's so they can see and then they can, you know, add
more light, ETC. They don't.
Fall on in the. Exactly, Exactly.
But also, I think there's some kind of superstition about
appeasing the, the spirits, the ghosts of of the theatre, you
know, particularly for these old, old historical theatres.
But again, I don't believe I've ever witnessed seeing a in real
life. Perhaps in, you know, film and
media, you know, there are reference references to it, but
I just wondered if you'd ever seen or.
No, I've never seen it. I think I've, I, I don't know if
it is quite an American thing actually, but I have.
I have not. I've never experienced it
myself. I've heard many stories about
actual ghosts, not just ghost lines.
I've never experienced a ghost myself in my entire life.
But there's always stories about ghosts and theaters.
There's one in in Tivoli in the pantomime theatre.
There's like a big black fly that flies around and they
always say it's one of the old Columbines.
Her spirit is in this fly. So whenever there's a family on
stage, you can't kill it. It's dead Columbine, you got it.
So don't kill a family. And I'm like, no, it's just
because we haven't aired out this theatre.
And that fly has been flying around for years.
So pantomime theatre, pantomime theatre in Tivoli, where I
worked and where where I worked with Sean is a kind of a Chinese
building in the middle of Tivoli Gardens.
The architect of that is the same architect as the one who
did is called the old stage, the Royal Ballet, the Royal Opera
House in the center of Copenhagen.
That's the same architect. And funny enough, he did it in
the exact same year. An architect creating those two
buildings, which are completely different styles and completely
different, you know, sizes and everything about them is
completely different. It was the same architect in the
same year, which I think is kind of amazing because the old stage
where the Royal Ballet is, is a very, I don't want to say
stereotypical because it sounds, it makes it sound awful, but
like, you know, a classic Opera House, what it looks like.
And then you've got these Chinese Theatre with the front
curtain is a Peacock that opens its tail and it's like, you
know, completely different ends of the spectrum.
But yeah, same architect, same year.
Quite interesting. I'm busy for the architect.
My goodness. I mean, I'm sure you know he was
it, did you say a male? Was he a guy?
Yeah, I'm sure he had a team, obviously, but I'm quite
lucrative. I would have thought, you know,
he was obviously the architect of the season, so good for him.
But yeah, I've seen the Tivoli Theatre and it's far from
traditional and it's beautiful, but very, very different.
Yeah, and it's the rake on that stage.
My God, it's very raked. Every time I go on a stage now
that is raked like this is nothing, this is nothing.
Go dancing Tivoli. I remember I was actually funny
story before we close up completely this episode, we were
on tour with Danish Dance Theatre and there was a solo at
the beginning of the show that I shared with another guy.
We would like alternate who does it each each night and it wasn't
going to be my night. And we were flying to Bonholm,
which is a Danish island and we were at the the airport in
Copenhagen and our flight is delayed by like 3 hours.
And it was a one night show, fly to Bonholm, stage it, tech, do
the show, sleep the night, fly back.
So we're at the airport and I don't even think it's snowing in
Copenhagen, but the the flight is delayed by three hours and
then it gets delayed by another hour and it's because of snow.
We eventually fly and the flight is like 30 minutes.
Like it's a very, very, very quick flight.
And we arrived, we touched down in Bonholm and yes, the snow is
up to your knees. It's absolutely crazy.
But we are so delayed. The tour manager says to us,
we're going to have time to get to that stage, maybe space one
or two things, and then you have to change and then we do the
show like there's no time to do anything.
And obviously the technicians also need to set the stage up.
And yeah, there was no time. And I remember the tour manager
says to me, he's like, Paul, you're doing the solo tonight.
It's like, oh, why? What's happened is someone
injured? It's like, no, it's a rake stage
and you're used to it. So you've done enough rake
stages in your life, so get on that rake.
Get out there, girl. And again on home gone down
like, oh, this isn't a rake. Nothing after panto.
I can do anything after that rake stage I.
Stood on that stage with you when I, I visited a few times to
see you in Denmark and it is a severe rake.
It really is. It's it's a huge skill to be
able to dance on that stage. It really is and.
It's things that you don't think about.
Like for me, lots of Bournonville ballets end with an
on to Don Pirouette. Like lot end of part of seas,
end of Taron tellers, end of lots of his, you know, Napoli
solos and all that kind of stuff.
Lots of them end with an on to Don pirouette.
And so I got so used to like spotting really high up on on to
Don pirouettes. And I remember up until like
quite recently when I go to do a class like staring at the
ceiling when I'm doing on to Don pirouettes because I'm so used
to doing it, like retraining myself to not be on a rake has
been more of an issue. Pirouettes on a rake were
something that I learned quite quickly.
But the hardest thing is, like what we spoke spoke about a
couple of weeks ago, Coupe Jetes or Jetty Alonso, like going
around the room because you're going down the hill and then
you're going up the hill. Tricky, tricky.
Listen, you've, I know we have to wrap up this episode, but
you've just reminded me of when when I joined Swan Lake, we did
AUK tour, we did a national 10 week tour, right?
That was that was the first thing we did after a glorious
six weeks of rehearsal, which is unheard of now.
But we had six beautiful weeks. And there's a moment in Swan
Lake, and I think it must be act one, where the bed this huge,
the Princess bed is already set on stage, so it's locked in
position, but we have to turn it.
Four of the dancers have to take a corner of the bed each unflip
the lock, turn the bed and push the bed upstage and then lock.
And then we disappear and then we're on our next scene.
But I think I don't know whether we didn't have time to do it in
the tech rehearsal or whether, whether I don't know what
happened, but the bed started to roll towards the orchestra, the
live orchestra in the pit and the panic.
And eventually, of course, we managed to hold it in place
lock. But the weight of the bed, even
though it was locked, it still kept pushing forward.
So I mean, that could have been horrendous, but I don't think
the the show was stopped. I think we kept going.
But those moments, you know, it's, it's amazing how just a
slight shifting gradient on a stage can really alter the
entire dynamic of whether it's yourself or the set, but you've
just unlocked that memory from three years ago.
Well, I do hope that you have all learned something today.
Some useless facts to tell at dinner parties.
That's what you're supposed to say.
Excuse me. Excuse me?
Cut. Cut.
Well, I do hope that you have learnt something today.
Some useless facts to tell at a dinner party.
And please tell everyone at that dinner party that you learnt
those facts and much, much more from your favorite podcast,
Drinks. At the bar.
Yeah. Please do.
All right, darling. Lots of love.
Lots of love, take care and speak to you again soon.
Speak to you soon, bye. Bye bye.
Bye.