Hello everyone, and welcome back to Needy No More, the podcast
dedicated to healing the anxious attachment style.
I'm your host, anxious attachment style coach and
author Chris Ratcliffe. I've helped thousands of people
across 6 continents to end the cycle of anxious attachment
through my books, workshops, digital downloads, and coaching
program. I'm excited to carry on that
mission here on the podcast, sharing tools and techniques,
principles and practices for you to explore on your journey to
growing more secure. Today is a very special day on
the show. I have a guest here who is
somewhat hard to introduce because we have such an
interesting and complex relationship that's taken a lot
of different forms. Her name is Christina and
Christina and I met several years ago, maybe 2022.
You can correct me on this. Christina I I'm not sure.
I I think late 2021. Wow.
OK, OK, so we met a few years ago when she reached out to me
for coaching. From there, after she finished
the coaching program, I hired her on my team to help me
connect with other clients and to enroll people in the program
and she even did some coaching for me as well.
Christina is also a great success story for what coaching
can do for your life. And she is now married to her
partner, Joseph Joey. And we'll talk about all of the
above today. But Christina is now a really
close friend of mine and we talk all the time.
And I'm really happy to have you on the show.
Christina, thanks for coming on. Of course, thank you for having
me here. It's a pleasure and honor to
speak with you, of course, in this forum, but also connecting
with your listeners who I know are just waiting to hear more
about our journey together. Why don't we start at the
beginning? It's the most natural place to
start, I think. Tell us about where you were at
in your life, what was going on, how you were feeling when you
reached out to me to set up. Just an intro conversation.
Yeah. I was in a really dark place,
probably one of the darkest in my life, and I think my
environment at the time definitely reflected how I felt
on the inside. I mean, I remember I was going
through a breakup with a partner that I had three years.
We lived together, we had a dog together.
It was very serious. I thought it was going to end in
marriage, which of course now in hindsight, he wasn't the right
partner for me. But Fast forward, I'm in my
apartment where I'm living completely alone for the first
time. I always lived with roommates or
other people, never completely on my own and being an anxious
attacher that is probably one of the hardest and scariest things
when we are consistently thrive driving off connection and
wanting connection. So I ended up moving in alone.
I had a mattress on the ground and like a bin of clothes.
It was really nothing and I was wearing the same hoodie for
three days in a row. I was not taking care of myself.
I was really depressed and just scrolling TikTok as one does and
I came across Chris and at this time content like Chris's was
not really in my algorithm. It was probably the first of its
kind when he was speaking about anxious attachment styles and
how having people leave you is almost a self fulfilling
prophecy He was speaking about. And I remember watching his
video and going, wait, there's other people in this world that
think these things Because a lot of the things that he said that
you said in your content, I went on your page and looked at more.
These are feelings and thoughts that I had in my head for years
that I felt too ashamed to admit out loud to my friends or
anybody telling them how desperate I felt for connection
and the links I was going to go to to make a relationship work.
Some things I still have never said out loud of the things that
I have done to make relationships work.
And I, Chris, you were really the only person that I've ever
known at that time that really I felt saw that piece of me that I
felt ashamed of. So naturally, I booked a call
with you. I really didn't know what it
meant. I wasn't super familiar with,
you know, coaching and this type of avenue.
I didn't really understand what the call was or what it was for,
but all I knew is I needed to talk to you and whatever that
equated to you. I was willing to try to find a
way to make work and I had my first call with you.
I remember having thoughts of, wow, this person really
understands me and really cares in a way that no therapist did.
I ever feel so seen by a therapist before.
And I knew I just had. I had to work with you and I had
to make a change. I couldn't live the way I was
living anymore. And yeah, of course, we went on
that second call and it was pretty much a done deal for me.
I didn't really care about anything of how to make it
happen. I remember spending my last
dollars to make it happen because the moving in alone was
incredibly expensive. There were a lot of things
happening, but I just knew I couldn't live this way anymore
and I had to find a way to make it work.
And I did. And then from there my my life
really changed. It did.
And we'll definitely get to some
of those changes because you've really come full circle.
But I want you to talk also about what your experience was
like in the program. You did group coaching, which
I'm not currently offering, but is very similar to in terms of,
you know, conceptually and exercise wise what's in the
one-on-one version of the program.
What did you get out of it? Like what did you learn along
the road, so to speak? I learned a lot of things.
I mean, I still speak with a couple of the people that were
in the program with me. They were all lovely people at
different points in their life experiencing different journeys,
and that made me feel so much less alone.
It was my favorite time of the week to have these sessions
because I felt like I was with people who understood me.
That was a big piece. I was looking for camaraderie.
I was looking to not feel alone. I learned a lot about myself,
and I know everybody talks about, oh, that must be from
your childhood or oh, that must be childhood trauma.
And that's something that a lot of people say these days, and
I've heard that before, but I never really thought about the
extent of how much it affected me until I did your program.
There were a lot of different exercises where I had to talk
about my role models. I'm thinking about who in my
life was kind of mirroring the relationship or marriage that I
was looking for. What was involved in those
relationships? Taking care of myself was not
really a thing. I was eating like a cube of
cheese to not pass out. I mean, I was not eating full
meals. I was on a very off sleep
schedule. I was self medicating with
marijuana edibles almost every night because I didn't want to
feel my feelings. I didn't really know how to
regulate my nervous system. I was doing everything I could
to avoid the feeling so I can get through the day, and it was
the first time that I really started thinking of a routine
for myself. So I started going on walks
every day, I started going to the gym a few times a week, and
I started eating 2 meals a day. At least I was not treating my
body, my mind like a temple as somebody who was ready to even
be in a healthy relationship. I was attracting exactly the way
I was treating myself. And that was a big piece of what
I learned. How am I possibly going to be in
a healthy relationship with a secure partner when I am almost
relying on them to take care of me?
Because when I'm by myself, that's the default.
I think self-care was a really important piece that was huge
for me in becoming healthier for not only myself but for the
nature relationship I was really looking for.
Those small incremental things add up over time.
I've always said that that's always been my approach to this
work, the small stuff, because a lot of people aim for big
breakthroughs and that is well-intentioned, but it's
actually your habits and your routines that get you there or
not. And so hearing you talk about
going from not eating so well, not sleeping so well, to getting
those foundations in place for yourself so you could build on
top of them. It might not be an immediate
connection or something that someone thinks about when
they're healing, they're anxious attachment or healing from
trauma. The consistency part of this is
what a lot of people overlook because the small stuff
accumulates via the consistency to create the breakthrough true
that they are seeking. Obviously there are going to be
many people listening to this and watching who are not
familiar with coaching who have never even reached out to anyone
to potentially help them outside of a therapy environment.
In your experience, both as the client and as someone working
with my clients, what do you think people get hung up on when
it comes to taking a leap of faith to do this work?
What holds them back? How can they work through some
of that to get the help that they might need?
There's a few things that consistently came up when I had
conversation, conversations with folks who maybe felt fear or not
ready. And a lot of times things would
come up. Finances, time, there's no
opportune time to heal, right? We're not all just sitting here
with all this time. Often you have to implement it
into your life and make it a priority.
And when I would dig more into the real reason, it was the lack
of self belief that they could follow through.
And that's something that I can really understand because I had
the same beliefs. Now, I think something important
to think about when it comes to people considering this kind of
work is you're really the only person who can decide if you
want to keep living the way you live or not.
And you could keep doing what you're doing, but likely you
wouldn't have been speaking to myself or Chris if you were OK
with that. So I think a lot of times it
took a little bit of encouragement and holding
someone's hand to get through the finish line because it's
really scary. And a lot of times as an anxious
attacher, we don't trust your own judgement.
We don't trust your own thoughts.
We're always second guessing and making a decision.
Decision can be really difficult.
So I think at the end of the day, there's always going to be
a fear for different reasons, whether it's what if I won't
implement the work? What if I have a bad sense of
judgement? Once again, those are all
legitimate thoughts. They all make sense.
But at the end of the day, it kind of comes back to the same
question. If you've tried therapy, you've
tried calling your friends when you're upset, you have tried
journaling, but maybe you haven't done it consistently
enough. There's clearly something
lacking in your support that is making it so you can't follow
through. It's not always you.
Sometimes it's just you're doing things super sporadically to try
to get temporary relief when really that's not the problem.
If you just journal for one or two days, you're not going to
just wake up and be securely attached.
You have to build small habits over time.
And when you work with someone like Chris, the gentle reminders
of you may not see the progress that you're making, but it's
happening and you need to trust that it's happening and you need
to keep doing the work. Because then you blink and
you're in your first healthy relationship with somebody that
is actually valuing and respecting you, and you wonder
how you got there. Well, it's because you actually
legitimately committed to be consistent.
Even if it wasn't perfect, it's still different than what you
did before. My goodness, there's so much in
what you just shared. I just also want to point out
the what ifs that you were saying.
That is a classic sign of being in a space of doubt and worry
and anxiety. So whenever I hear a what it
will, what if this doesn't work? And what if that is anxiety
presenting itself? And for someone struggling with
anxious attachment, those are natural things to wonder.
But I think it's important to flip that on its head.
What if you learn the skills you're hoping to learn?
What if this environment of accountability and practicality
is what has been lacking? What if you do know all of this?
So it's not an information problem, but it's a
transformation problem. You need someone to help hold
your feet to the fire so that you actually show up day in and
day out. And that's part of why the
investment level is what it is, too.
You have real skin in the game. It is a bigger investment than
just paying session by session with a therapist, or maybe not
paying at all if you're not coming out of pocket for that
expense. So this is something that
completely flips things on its head.
And I know for a lot of anxious attachers, there's shame in the
room a lot of times that makes us think we're not good enough
to invest in ourselves. And quite frankly, we always
prioritize everybody else over ourselves, always in our
relationships. So this is sometimes hard to get
past for people like, am I worth that?
Is this actually going to help? But you get out what you put in,
as I remind people all the time, you know, if you're concerned
about that, that is actually something you have control over.
Do the exercises, do the daily nervous system practice, reach
out to me for messaging support. And if you show up for your
sessions, in addition to all of those things, you are going to
experience some degree of transformation.
And I almost feel like another piece that people really
struggle with is I always tell my friends, you have Foss fear
of success. So it a lot of times being an
anxious attacher. I know for me it was my
personality for a really long time, my habits, my trauma
responses. It was literally just who I was
and I was terrified of not knowing who I am anymore and
having to rebuild from that, from a place of being healthy.
What if I'm not funny anymore with myself deprecating jokes?
What if people don't like me anymore because I'm starting to
set boundaries? It's easier this way.
These are all thoughts that constantly went through my head
of I don't know if I really am ready to change.
Is it really that bad? And I mean, the answer for me,
it was like, yeah, it is. But yeah, I just kind of wanted
to point that out because that's kind of an unspoken thing that I
thought about a lot. A lot of people, they really
lean into their anxious attachment or their mental
illnesses. I mean, the things that they're
struggling with as being their personality and it.
Does start to become an identity overtime that we then also
become attached to. And that attachment part of it
is important to name because it speaks to the experience,
whether it be with a romantic partner or with ourselves, of
even if it's not enjoyable, it is familiar.
The nervous system seeks it out, it recreates it in the hopes of
resolving it. And yet without different
ingredients, without something changing, the outcome only
repeats itself. And I actually recently had
someone reach out to me for coaching after three or four
years since our initial consultation and she enrolled in
the program and is having a lot of realizations.
One of those realizations is I could have done this three or
four years ago and been in an even better place by now, but
she wasn't ready, and that's OK. Everyone has to do their own
work at their own time or not. That's also a choice, but I like
to point that out just because you should listen to the timing
of your life and if you're feeling called to expand your
support system, then there is something compelling there.
It doesn't mean you have to work with me necessarily, but it does
mean that the support system is lacking something.
And if you revert back to that, that lack is still probably
going to be there. If you don't have a road map or
anything like that, now I want to transition to talking about
your success specifically. You're in such a different place
than you were previously. It hasn't been a road without
its own challenges or bumps, let's say.
Recall when you were putting yourself back out there and
dating. You know you had some encounters
with folks that were not ideal. So talk to us about your dating
experiences and putting yourself back out there and how you met
Joey and how you knew that he was worth continuing to see and
invest in because there was distance there too.
There was, and I'm going to be completely honest because there
was a lot of realizations through my healing to becoming
more securely attached and that included me messing up several
times. But The thing is, I got back on
track faster. Realizations happen faster and
situations that could have ended into a relationship like I would
before I chose to end it and move forward.
So although I made mistakes, it still ended up in a different
outcome, which is great. But naturally when my ex and I
broke up, my first thought was OK, well, I have to find another
boyfriend. Embarrassingly enough, I always
joked around with my friends. I've had a Valentine every year
since I was 11. And it's, it's, it's crazy
because I look back at some of the assignments I did when I was
a kid and it asked, what do you want to be when you grow up?
And people were saying a doctor, a writer, an astronaut.
I looked back at one of them and it was so sad.
It said to be loved. I think about that all the time.
And that's how I LED my life. And that pattern, even when I
started my program initially with you, I still had that
thought of how am I going to find my next support system?
How am I going to find my next support system?
Who is it going to be? Who's easy, easily accessible?
Who do I think I can get to? Like me?
These are all real thoughts that I had in my head and I want to
say that the first date that I had after exiting my long term
relationship was a few weeks after it ended when I moved into
my new space because I was desperate for relief.
And I remember going out and having a great time with this
person. They were somebody that I knew
that they randomly messaged me on Facebook.
I didn't reach out to them. So of course, in my mind I'm
thinking, well, I didn't reach out to them.
I didn't do anything weird. They reached out to me, so why
not? This person wasn't ready to have
a relationship. Truthfully I wasn't either, but
I desperately just wanted someone to cling on to.
And we went out dancing and we got tacos.
We had a great, great conversation and I remember the
next morning he didn't text me or call me and I asked myself
why? Why wouldn't he message me?
Why? But that was a great night.
A few days go by, I think by day four, I couldn't take it
anymore. And I called him up and I said,
hey, I I thought we had a great time.
I just wanted to check in to see if we're on the same page
because I haven't heard from you.
I left the ball in your court and I'm just wanting to see if
you have any intention of. Wanting to move forward or if
you're just not feeling like this is for you.
And that's something I tend to do.
Before, I would just suffer in silence.
So that was a big piece for me, being able to pick up the phone
and do it from a place of empowerment as opposed to
desperation. Because at that point I was
thinking, well of course I want connection, but I'm actually not
desperate for it. I want to hear what he is
looking for and see if we're even in alignment because I'm
feeling like we're not. He just said, you know what,
you, you're a really strong person.
And I, I actually really like you.
But I'm driving for Uber right now.
I'm between jobs. I see how successful you are.
I don't feel comfortable moving forward because I don't feel
confident enough of myself to be able to have a partner like you
yet. So whether that that was true or
not, it gave me clarity to move forward.
And you listen to your own need for clarity by reaching out.
And I think that self honoring piece is important to name here.
Yeah. So after some of these initial
experiences, how long did it take for you until you met Joey?
Yeah, I mean, I, I was dating for probably about a year.
I went on like, you know, quite a few dates and I had a great
time. I'm very social.
I could probably find a way to connect with a paper bag.
So for me, even if it wasn't a romantic connection, I still had
a great time. And there were several instances
where somebody wanted a relationship with me when I
didn't want it back. And that was crazy for me
because I always felt like I was the one chasing.
It was almost a sense of empowerment that I'm not used
to, but I didn't want it to be hurtful to other people.
And The thing is, I I found during this time that I didn't
have to choose one or the other. I could still have emotional
connection and have a casual relationship and still enjoy
that person's presence, but know that they were not a long term
fit for me. What?
That was weird. Gray area.
Hello. Yes, it was really interesting
for me and I found it really difficult having those
conversations with people that wanted that relationship with
me. But I enjoyed their presence but
knew they weren't a long term fit.
And I felt for the first time that I was in the shoes of how
other people must have felt with me in the past.
I didn't really understand the fact that somebody could say to
me, hey, I I really like you and I enjoy your presence, but I
just don't see a future. No comprende this.
I had no idea how that could be possible.
What do you mean? You like me and you don't see a
future? That makes no sense.
Well, I experienced it for the first time and it does make
sense. It was just something I didn't
experience before. Only I only was really dating
one person at a time and right before I met Joey, I was seeing
someone for a few months and I kind of dipped back into my
anxious attachment tendencies of people pleasing particularly.
I didn't feel like I wanted to date this person.
They were incredibly persistent for months and it didn't scare
me. So I thought to myself, well,
maybe this is a potential of being a secure partner and I'm
not feeling that fire inside because usually that's what I
feel. I don't feel grossed out by him
or anything, but I'm not really into it the way that he is.
And I remember him asking me two to three times and the third
time I just told myself, I'm going to say yes, I'm just going
to say yes and I'm just going to go all in and see what happens.
This was like a three month stint, but this gentleman named,
let's call him Jorge. I, I convinced myself I was
really in it because I wanted things to be different for me
and I was questioning my own judgment.
He told me he was in love with me and all these things and it
wasn't there for me. And I ended it after a few
months. And I just was like, after this
experience, I am changed. I cannot do this again.
Umm, I have to stick to how I really feel.
I ended up taking a small break from my online business to I go
back into corporate and that's where I met Joey, my husband.
And this is when things were fizzling out with that
gentleman. I was dating for a few months
and Joey and I did not exchange phone numbers.
He knew that I was kind of seeing someone.
I remember thinking, oh, he's really nice.
He was constantly asking me, how can I help you?
Or is everything making sense to you?
Do you want to hop on Zoom and eat lunch together and I can
walk you through some of the systems.
He was just very friendly and very helpful.
And I remember thinking that I thought he was really cute, but
I didn't do anything about it. It was the first job that I was
ever fired from in my life. And I went back to running my
business and I got a message on LinkedIn from Joey saying, Hey,
I'm really surprised that you were Lucko.
You were the best performer on the team.
I really looked up to all the things that you did and that you
brought from doing in your own business.
I I think that leadership is just kind of threatened by that
and ended up letting you go. And if you want to still
connect, here's my phone number, but no pressure.
And I was like, interesting. OK, we we texted a little bit
and both of our grandparents were actually about to pass at
the exact same time and we were both very close to this
particular grandparent. So we were talking, but we were
both kind of going through the ends of the life of an important
piece of our family system. It was a hard time, but we
helped each other through it and we ended up Facetiming and we
are Facetiming every day for over a month.
We did intentional dates where we would play that.
It's like a little red box. Are we really strangers?
Is that what the Yes, we played that and we would have wine on
FaceTime and we we had intentional ways of getting to
know each other as well. It wasn't just talking.
We had similarities in regards of what we were looking for, he
said. My intention is to find my wife
at this time in my life, which I've never heard a man say that
to me before. What do you mean?
Everyone's like, I just want to catch a vibe and see how it
goes. So I, I said my intention is
finding my life partner. I that's what I'm looking for.
So thanks for being straightforward with that to
make sure that we're in alignment.
And it was refreshing that I wasn't the one who had to push
to understand where he was at. He's a fellow anxious attacher.
I could kind of tell by the way that we connected.
So we both were in pretty consistent communication, but
we're giving the other person space to live our lives.
We just really hit it off. I felt very comfortable with
him. I felt very safe.
And we got to know each other very well pretty early on,
mostly because we were long distance, right?
So what would equal dating in person?
We surpassed that pretty quickly because all we had was
conversation. I went to Atlanta because I was
going to see one of my clients anyways, and we decided that we
both wanted to spend the weekend together in an Airbnb.
And we would decide what our comfortability was in regards of
sleeping next to each other. We had an option for us to sleep
separately. If there wasn't a connection in
real life, we would be friends. So we were both on the same
page. At the very least, we know that
we like each other platonically, so if this doesn't end up being
something we're open to the other person sharing, hey, this
doesn't feel right or I'm not feeling that connection, but
let's finish out the weekend as friends and still be on good
terms. So that made me feel
comfortable. And of course, sharing my
location with my girlfriends. So sure, you know, it went
really well and he did things no one's ever done for me before.
He had a whole note of my favorite snacks, my favorite
activities. He was keeping track during our
conversations, but he wasn't showing it to me.
I saw it by accident when he was looking at it in the corner by
himself. And he had all of my favorite
snacks lined up for me. He brought me flowers when he
picked me up from the airport. He opened my doors for me.
He bought us candles for when we had breakfast together.
Just very intentional and very kind and not performative.
I could just tell it was who he was, us as a person.
And yeah, we had, we had an amazing time together and then
he came to visit me in Chicago. We talked about what we wanted
to do to move forward. I didn't really want to move to
Atlanta and we both didn't want to keep doing long distance.
I think it was just hard on us mentally and anxiety wise.
It was just difficult being apart from each other.
So we were trying to decide what we wanted to do, and he made the
decision that he wanted to move to Chicago.
And it was an interesting time because I was trying to do
things differently than I've ever done because I've moved
very quickly in relationships in the past out of scarcity and
fear that they would leave. And I remember us eating
together at a restaurant. And this is the third month that
we were dating and knowing each other pretty much.
We decided to sign a lease together in Chicago because I
was moving from my one bedroom and I was going to move alone.
But we just made the decision and I told him about my anxious
attachment journey and how I was concerned that I was moving too
fast. We ended up having an agreement
that if things didn't work out, he had an aunt and uncle that
lived about 30 minutes away. I was able to afford the lease
on my own and that I would keep the apartment and he would go
live with his aunt and uncle until he could go back to
Atlanta. So we did have a in depth
conversation of how things would go and, and then it ended up
working out really well. I wouldn't necessarily recommend
it, but I really wanted to spend time with him and I wanted him
to feel supported making that kind of move across the country.
I felt that asking him to live completely on his own in a place
that he did not know at all was unfair.
I felt that I wanted to be there to support him because I
wouldn't have asked him or even invited him to move to Chicago
if I didn't see a future with him.
So it was decision that I had to make based on what I knew and
felt at the time of what I felt was best.
And it wasn't coming from a place of fear of losing him.
It was coming from a place of I can see a feature with this
person and I want them to feel supported and loved while making
a move this big. I know I would probably want
that same support. So this is the decision that we
are making as a couple that feels best to us.
People thought we were nuts for a few months and then his family
met me and my family met him and once they saw us together and
they, you know, they met me and him.
His family went OK I get it OK. And my mom said OK I get it.
Once everyone saw us together it was very clear.
OK, this makes sense. This isn't some weird random
playing house situation for a couple months and they're going
to come back broken hearted, which could have happened, but
you can kind of tell the difference when someone's just
kind of moving too fast. They don't know each other at
all. It's not intentional.
It was a very grounded feeling decision.
So that was really healing for me to go.
Made this in a place of security and feeling grounded and having
a plan if things didn't work out and feeling safe enough to make
that plan with with my partner. And then Fast forward a year and
a half, he proposed and then we were.
We got married in December of 2024.
You guys are the cutest. There's so much there that I
want to name. And the first is the
consideration of one another at every point as you're
describing, whether it's the Airbnb or moving in together or
even the idea of the move. Yeah.
There's a real consideration of what's best, not just
individually but together as a team and respecting one
another's point of view, perspective, experiences,
comfort levels. There's also so much
thoughtfulness and intentionality there that is
important to name for folks who are potentially dating to have a
lifelong partnership because each of you were able to name
that that's what you desired. That's what this was
potentially, hopefully working its way towards.
If that intention hadn't have been set, then maybe the move
doesn't make sense. Moving in together doesn't make
sense. I mean, you even named that.
You know, you saw a future with this person and you want him
nearby. I mean, that's the whole point
of ending the long distance, right?
So I hear you about the judgement from the outside in
and people thinking you might be crazy or out of your mind or
it's happening too quickly for their comfort level.
But there's so much communication and consideration
that happened between the two of you to get you there.
And I think a lot of that intentionality, a lot of that
consideration is why you are where you are today.
There is such a comfort and care and safety that both of you
brought to each other. That doesn't mean that it was
perfect. It doesn't mean that it was
without conflict or disagreement, which is important
to name because many people just assume then that because you're
so considerate and thoughtful and intentional that it means
you don't argue or disagree, which is not true.
Not true. I talked about this just a
couple of episodes ago on what a secure relationship actually
looks like. It's how you repair that matters
and how you come back together that matters, and also how you
show up for the conflict and disagreement that matters.
And any patterns there. But I just wanted to name those
things because I know a lot of people watching and listening
are like, how do I get there? I can't find the person.
I'm not matching with someone or meeting people that want that
kind of depth and intentionality.
I also want to name that you had other prospects.
I did have other prospects. You had other people that really
wanted to go the distance with you and you listened to
yourself. Because in the coaching program
for people who don't know, you do a lot of work to identify
your needs, your values, your love languages and really paint
a very clear picture for yourself of who am I?
What do I actually need? What are my must haves in a
partner and partnership? And with that clarity that you
brought to your dating life even if you didn't make the perfect
decisions. I'm using air quotes for people
who are listening instead of watching.
But even if you didn't make the perfect decisions or honor how
you were feeling earlier rather than later, you eventually got
there and you listened to the clarity that you developed for
yourself, that self-awareness that you cultivated in the
coaching program. And because of that, when Joey
showed up, you were very quickly, I think, able to see
this person is different. This feels more natural, more
organic. You're not having to coach or
pursue or chase this person. You're not having to tell them,
well, this is what I prefer. He's already naturally leaned in
because of his own anxious attachment tendencies.
And that's another thing I want to name for people too.
An anxious, anxious partnership can be beautiful.
It can be really healthy and fruitful and deep and meaningful
and very fulfilling. And that doesn't mean that
you're both 100% secure or insecure.
That's not a thing. I've talked about that a lot on
the show. You know that there's a degree
of security and insecurity that's present in all of us.
Yes. But there was enough security
there, enough fuel in the tank, enough leaned in Ness from both
of you that gave you what you needed to continue. 100% I
couldn't agree more of what you said because something that
comes to mind to me of the difference between Joey and I
moving together a few months in. I think back to when my ex
partner before Joe and I were together.
I was very manipulative out of fear of being left.
And that was something that I learned through therapy, through
coaching with you, the part that I played and he was not ready to
move in together at all. I remember feeling the stress
from that situation and the misalignment and my fear
exasperated from knowing that I really wanted it.
But it wasn't even from a place of, oh, I really want it because
because I want to be with this person.
I just didn't want to be alone. But there was definitely
misalignment in that relationship that I I saw later.
And I was so willing to push him in a direction he wasn't ready
to go in. And that was a huge piece of why
the relationship ended because of my fear being so big, being
left and being alone. I was willing to do anything to
get him on the same page as me when maybe he'd say the words
that he was, but in his heart he wasn't.
There was a really big difference in how I showed up in
the relationship I have with my husband than when I did before I
started your program. I mean, it's I'm two different
people. Do you consider yourself secure
now? It's a great question.
Much more secure, I would say. Who I chose as a partner really
makes it easy for me to be secure in my marriage because he
doesn't trigger the anxious parts of myself.
I do still struggle with anxious attachment professionally and
with friendships sometimes, but I would say that I'd handle
things a lot better. The symptoms of, you know,
shaking, being afraid, not being able to eat due to abandonment
or some type of conflict. Instead of it lasting an entire
day, it will last 30 minutes. Maybe it's just so much lighter
than it was before. Makes sense.
A full day to 30 minutes is a huge improvement.
Oh yeah, I mean, listen, my productivity has gone up.
I'm sure. Yeah, Well, you're not so
depleted. I mean, many of us stay in
survival mode, and it is exhausting being anxiously
attached. Yeah, all the time.
It is. That kind of level of
dysregulation will deplete you significantly.
I do think it is important to name.
It's OK to still struggle with some of this.
A lot of these types of patterns tend to stem back to our
earliest relationships. And I know we didn't get to it
today, but there was some trauma there.
I've talked openly about my own trauma on the show, so it's
important not to judge ourselves for that, especially if you're
watching or listening. Depending on where you are on
your journey, it is OK to still struggle.
Again, incremental improvement, small adjustments that
accumulate over time to vastly improve how you manage on a
day-to-day level and from moment to moment.
You're not derailed by this anymore.
You're able to function. You have a very fulfilling life
and I've seen this quote circulate a lot but I want to
name it here. It says that you can tell
someones level of self love by the partner they choose.
And you talking about your marriage now to Joey and the
relationship that you have and how calm he makes you, how
peaceful it is on the whole. Again, not every single second,
but that he no longer triggers those parts of you.
I think that's a part of the consideration and thoughtfulness
too. He knows you at a very deep
level and is considerate to not do that and not go there and I
think that indicates a very deep level of self love for you.
Who I ended up ultimately choosing for myself is not the
same person that I would have chosen for myself even a few
years ago. And you would see the extreme
difference. And I there's an extreme
difference with how I felt about myself and how I feel about
myself now. So yeah, that I would say that's
completely true. What would you say to the
Christina who was in that one bedroom apartment with the
mattress on the floor? What do you have to say to her
now? What do you think she needs to
hear from you or what? What would feel empowering to
say to her knowing where you are now and where that road would
eventually lead? I would tell her keep holding
on. You're going to get to where
you're looking to go. Even more so, keep showing up
every single day. Things are going to get better.
You're a good person. You don't have to keep living
this way and you won't. But you have to keep trying
every single day. And I know that you will.
And I love you. You're worthy of all the love
that you've been looking for. That's what I would say.
Beautifully put. What do you have to say to
anyone out there who hasn't healed their anxious attachment
yet? What's your advice to them?
There's just so much life to live on the other side.
I mean, when I think of how I felt when I was in the thick of
it, I felt like I was in this tiny little box and I was
looking at the everyone on the outside moving and smiling and
I'm in this little box that I just couldn't get out of.
And for people listening, if you feel like you're in that box and
you feel that there's no way out, if you are in a
relationship that isn't serving you, if you are trying to find a
partner but you feel like it's hard to find the right person
for you, all I can say is that your life will become infinitely
better if you make the choice to heal.
Keep the good things, but the things that are not serving you,
they're they're putting you back in your life.
You every day that you decide not to heal from anxious
attachment, it's one less day that you're really living.
And sometimes it's hard to see what's possible on the other
side because you don't think it's possible for you.
It's, it's a mountain to climb, but you don't have to do it
alone. There's people out there who who
can absolutely help you. And if you're willing to try
your best every day, even if some days 10%, some days 100%,
you're still moving that needle forward.
You will absolutely begin to live the life that you've always
dreamed of, if not better. But there's no better day but
today to get started on this journey so you can start living
a fulfilling life. Because if you keep living the
way that you are now, 10 years are going to pass you by and
you're going to wonder why you didn't change anything.
And that's really no way to live.
Yeah, you can't make more time. As I always remind people, not
even Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk can buy it.
All the money in the world can't buy it, correct?
So if you need the support, seek that out.
Even if it's not me, Find a different coach.
Find a therapist who really sees you and challenges you and holds
you accountable. Find a healing modality that
resonates with you. Take a look at your social
circle and how they impact your nervous system.
Try to surround yourself with people who you feel you can be
your genuine self with, who appreciate you, who celebrate
you. All very important things that
I've talked about on the show before as well.
Christina, as we wind toward the end of today's episode, how can
people find you? You can find me on Instagram.
Christina connects. Always happy to talk to a fellow
fan of Chris's or somebody who's struggling with anxious
attachment if you want to hear about my experience working with
Chris. Anything else about my story?
More than happy to talk to you or just connect as a fellow
human. So that's Christina.
Christina connects, CONNECTS. And yeah, I'll see you on the
other side. Christina connects and for those
who are interested in the coaching program, head to
cracklift.com/coaching. CRACKL.
Iffe.com/coaching Christina, thank you so much for coming on
the show. It's so wonderful to see your
face again and hear your voice. I know this combo is going to
resonate with a lot a lot of folks.
Thank you.