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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to Needy No More, the podcast 

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dedicated to healing the anxious
attachment style. 

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I'm your host, anxious 
attachment style coach and 

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author Chris Ratcliffe. 
I've helped thousands of people 

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across 6 continents to end the 
cycle of anxious attachment 

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through my books, workshops, 
digital downloads, and coaching 

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program. 
I'm excited to carry on that 

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mission here on the podcast, 
sharing tools and techniques, 

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principles and practices for you
to explore on your journey to 

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growing more secure. 
Welcome back everyone. 

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I know it's been a few weeks. 
I'm excited to share another 

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guest interview with y'all. 
We have Valerie Rubin here 

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today. 
Valerie is a relationship and 

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anxiety therapist who helps 
people heal their anxious 

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attachment style so they can 
finally experience relationships

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rooted in calm, trust and 
emotional safety. 

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She's the founder of Freedom 
from Anxious Attachment 

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Blueprint, her signature 
one-on-one program that guides 

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women through healing, fear of 
abandonment, inner child wounds,

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and self worth struggles, not 
just intellectually, but 

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somatically, so their bodies can
finally believe they're safe to 

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love and be loved. 
Valerie is also the host of the 

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Anxiety Recovery Podcast, ranked
in the top 15% of podcasts 

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globally, where she interviews 
leading experts in trauma, 

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attachment, and emotional 
healing. 

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Through her work, she's helped 
thousands of listeners and 

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clients understand that love is 
not a source of anxiety, but a 

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sanctuary of safety. 
Valerie, thanks so much for 

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coming on the show. 
I'm happy to have you here. 

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Thank you so much for having me 
on, Chris. 

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For those who don't know, Chris 
is on my podcast and we talked 

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all about emotional safety and 
how to really utilize that when 

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you're healing anxious 
attachment. 

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Highly recommend getting into 
that one if you haven't listened

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to that one already. 
With Chris it was amazing. 

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Yes, yes, I'm glad you brought 
that up. 

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I was going to mention that too.
I can link that in the show 

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notes for folks so they can 
check that out. 

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I know you and I, before we 
hopped on, we were talking 

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about, you know, what we want to
cover today and the topic of 

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breaking free from dating 
emotionally unavailable folks 

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came up. 
This is such a big one that I've

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been wanting to cover on the 
show, so I'm glad that we 

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identified that as something to 
discuss. 

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I think a good place to start, 
though, would be just to kind of

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define emotional unavailability.
What do you think emotional 

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unavailability means? 
Like what does that mean? 

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Yeah, that is a really great 
question because a lot of people

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might see emotional 
unavailability as this huge 

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overarching thing. 
But it's really like I define it

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as someone who is inconsistent, 
maybe someone who is showing 

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mixed signals, someone who is 
just their heart is not fully 

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open. 
And a lot of anxious attachers, 

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and this is coming from myself, 
who I used to blame and poke and

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point at people who would lean 
more avoidantly attached when in

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reality I myself was very 
emotionally unavailable. 

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But with anxious attachers, 
they're hyper available, meaning

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they're very focused on the 
other and we're self abandoning.

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We're not actually sharing our 
needs, sharing our truth, 

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sharing what we need because we 
have those protector parts and 

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fears of abandonment. 
And so we are equally as 

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emotionally unavailable if you 
are in that state. 

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And that's what like I wish I 
could have heard. 

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And it's like, that's why for 
me, I was consistently 

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attracting emotionally 
unavailable partners. 

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But this also could also could 
just look like they're 

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physically not there. 
Like for me in a previous 

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relationship, I was dating 
someone who was long distance. 

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I think it can be fabulous if 
it's short term or you've known 

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someone for for a while, but 
that's a way that's like a 

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buffer where you can't fully be 
vulnerable. 

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And if you've had emotionally 
and unavailable parents, which 

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if you're listening to this and 
you're anxiously attached or 

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disorganized, I guarantee you 
that's been your life like 

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myself. 
And so that becomes our 

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blueprint and our templating of 
what our nervous system feels 

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safe with. 
So, you know, that's just 

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really, really big. 
It really is. 

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I mean, you mentioned so much 
there that I definitely want to 

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dive deeper into today. 
I totally hear you though, in 

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terms of the physical distance, 
the emotional distance, there's 

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almost this like reluctance that
as anxious attachers, like 

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obviously we're hyper vigilant. 
We're always reading, you know, 

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into the room and into the 
environment around us. 

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So we pick up on these cues and 
sometimes they start really 

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subtly, I think like someone 
taking a little bit longer to 

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text us back then maybe they 
normally would. 

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And I'm using air quotes for 
those listening. 

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But we tend to get to know 
someone and we're when we do 

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that, we're always monitoring 
how they're showing up. 

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And even subtle shifts can cause
insecurity within us and can 

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make us even more hyper vigilant
about, well, is this person in 

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this? 
Do they like me? 

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And that really takes us out of 
our power, I think, because then

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we start focusing on them even 
more instead of asking 

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ourselves, like, do I like this?
Is this the kind of consistency 

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that I need? 
Do I feel safe with this person?

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More often than not, safety 
isn't an absolute proposition. 

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But I love what you're saying 
there, and I think reluctance is

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the word that just comes to mind
for me when I think about this. 

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It's like 1 foot in, one foot 
out. 

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Will they or won't they? 
Are they ready because they're 

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saying one thing and then their 
behavior is doing another? 

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Absolutely. 
And I want to add to the point 

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of reluctance because I know 
we're so focused on emotionally 

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unavailable relationships, but 
it's like a lot of people who 

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are anxiously attached. 
And this was definitely me. 

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And when I'm triggered, I can 
definitely notice that pattern 

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like sizzling through a little. 
It's like that fear of being 

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vulnerable, the fear of being 
seen. 

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And so in these emotionally 
unavailable relationships, we 

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don't actually have to open our 
hearts because they're not 

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meeting us in that depth, 
wondering when we're in these 

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types of dynamics. 
I feel so unseen, but you're 

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also not putting yourself out 
there in the way that you need. 

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It's like, can you remove the 
masks? 

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The I'm fine masks the I'm 
holding it all together mask? 

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Like can you help yourself feel 
safe in showing and removing the

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masks? 
Like who who you are underneath?

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Can you share with someone? 
Hey, I'm really fucking 

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struggling. 
I noticed even just noticing 

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your patterns and being like I 
notice a part of me wants to 

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hide and not share this. 
I noticed that you pulled away, 

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and that is giving me a lot of 
anxiety, like what's happening 

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on your end. 
It's like for someone who's 

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anxiously attached, they don't 
even want to share that because 

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it feels so scary because it's 
unknown, because they never had 

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to be fully vulnerable or fully 
seen. 

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And so that can be what can 
perpetuate you in staying with 

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these types of partners. 
Not because you want to, it's 

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just because we have something 
called neuroception. 

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So neuroception allows us to 
look into our memory bank and 

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files of is what type of love is
safe. 

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And if we've had emotionally 
unavailable and neglectful 

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parents, that's what our nervous
system and our body deems as 

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safe. 
So that is what our body in this

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neuroception, it's unconscious. 
So we can't just talk our way 

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out of it and say I'm just going
to go for someone healthy and 

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secure. 
When your body is not feeling 

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safe enough to do, do that and 
go there. 

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My goodness, there's a wealth of
knowledge in what you just 

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shared. 
I do think they're, especially 

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in early stages of dating, 
there's like, you know, the fear

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of being too much. 
You don't want to be a burden. 

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You don't want to like, you 
know, open up too quickly to 

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someone and be like, hey, I'm 
feeling anxious about this. 

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But actually I encourage folks 
to do that. 

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Like you need to be real about 
how you're feeling. 

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And expression is 1 antidote to 
anxiety because it's in the 

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repression and the suppression 
of how you feel that causes 

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anxiety because you're allowing 
for the pressure to build 

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internally. 
And it always comes out in one 

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way or another, likely in 
protest behavior. 

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So it's way better for you to 
express how you're feeling in as

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clear and direct and as 
compassionately and as healthily

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as you can. 
But you're not a burden for 

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having feelings and for wanting 
connection and consistency and 

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communication. 
I mean, that's what makes 

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relationships work. 
This whole idea of being a cool 

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person, like easygoing, 
nonchalant, that's not what 

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relationships are about. 
There is a way to go about it 

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where you can talk about asking 
for more of what you want. 

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And I've talked about this on 
the podcast before. 

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You know, you don't criticize 
your way to connection. 

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It doesn't work. 
But if you say like, hey, you 

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know, I'm hoping that we might 
be able to connect a little bit 

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more often. 
I've really enjoyed our dates so

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far. 
I know we've been seeing each 

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other roughly about once a week.
What do you think about us maybe

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seeing each other twice a week? 
Next week, Right. 

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Yeah. 
Propose that, You know, always 

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focus on more of what you want. 
But try to drop this mask. 

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Try to not fall into the trap of
being the cool guy or the cool 

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girl or the cool person, because
you're only going to trap 

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yourself if you do that, and 
you're going to feel that 

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constrictive environment, that 
cage that you've built for 

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yourself. 
I'm so glad you brought this up,

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Chris. 
This mask of like this secure, 

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no needs cool girl or cool boy, 
someone who's chill, right? 

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And that was definitely me in a 
previous relationship. 

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And that's just like what kept 
me in it and bottled in it was 

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because I wasn't actually 
sharing authentically what I 

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wanted until it got to such a 
point where he was taking a lot 

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of space. 
And then I was talking about 

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this with my therapist and she 
was saying, Valerie, that's a 

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lot of space. 
Even someone who's not anxiously

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attached would feel anxious. 
And it's like when I started to 

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share, like, hey, I would love 
to spend more time with you. 

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Like, what are your thoughts on 
that? 

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It can feel very terrifying to 
express yourself when you've 

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been so used to playing this 
cool girl mask or, you know, 

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chill mask. 
But by keeping you in that chill

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mask, you're never getting your 
needs met and you're always left

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feeling deprived. 
Like I remember at one point he 

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was so pulled away that I look, 
this is like, so sad to say, but

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I looked up like, is emotional 
starvation like a term? 

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Like, what is that? 
That was a few years ago, but 

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it's just like that's deeply, 
deeply sad. 

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And it's like I was perpetuating
that cycle just as much as he 

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was and that's what was 
protecting me from feeling that 

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fear of abandonment. 
And for me, especially people 

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who are anxiously attached, I've
been sprinkling this and talking

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about it slightly more is it 
triggers this pre verbal wound 

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of no one is coming. 
And This is why if they pull 

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away, if they don't text you 
back as much or consistently as 

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they typically do, it can really
trigger deep terror. 

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People are like, Oh my God, I 
feel irrational. 

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I feel crazy. 
But it's coming from a very, 

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very young part, from like zero 
to three years old that was 

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suppressed. 
And so of course now it's 

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getting re triggered. 
And like for me, that looked 

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like my partner at the time, 
like was taking all this space 

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and I had a panic attack when at
that point I was really working 

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on regulating myself. 
And I maybe would have a panic 

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attack maybe once a year. 
And it was very out of the norm 

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for me. 
But it was just this cycle of me

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perpetuating it. 
And it was that pre verbal 

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wound. 
And so when we can start to 

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learn how to feel safe in our 
body and learn to slowly titrate

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that expression, right was too 
scary to say, hey, I'm feeling 

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really anxious. 
You could just even say I am 

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feeling some type of way. 
I'm going to need some space and

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I'd love to come back in a 
little bit or I'm I'm feeling a 

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little bit anxious, but I'm OK. 
Like starting small and once 

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someone can start to like 
lovingly, just like help you 

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feel safe in that, that's when 
you'll feel safer to fully 

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express yourself when those 
things are coming up for you. 

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00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,040
But that was a big thing that 
was really hard for me. 

229
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,920
And I can notice when I'm 
triggered that can come up if 

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I'm not careful. 
The pre verbal wound. 

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00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,120
Wow. 
Yeah, That is a really powerful 

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way to describe this kind of 
conditioning, this imprinting 

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that many of us experience 
growing up that can even happen 

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00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,280
before we have like a conscious.
Language. 

235
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,600
Logical, linguistic 
understanding of what is 

236
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,720
occurring. 
So I love that you named that 

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00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,520
because I think for many of us 
this does go back to childhood. 

238
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,720
Not for everyone, but you know, 
it can go back to some of our 

239
00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,880
earliest memories, and those 
aren't always memories that we 

240
00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,320
are conscious of. 
Trauma is stored in the body and

241
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,720
comes up as a reaction, not a 
memory. 

242
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:57,880
That is a kind of paraphrasing 
of a quote from Besser Bessel 

243
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,240
Vanderkolk, who wrote The Body 
Keeps the Score. 

244
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,640
You know, trauma comes back as a
reaction, not a memory. 

245
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,520
So your body will tell you the 
ways in which you have 

246
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:13,280
experienced trauma or been 
wounded without having someone 

247
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,680
to help you Co regulate in a 
tune through and into that 

248
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:20,080
experience. 
And that can get triggered in a 

249
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,200
romantic partnership when 
someone does pull away or 

250
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,800
doesn't ask for space and just 
takes it or switches up their 

251
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,320
energy. 
Like some of this can happen in 

252
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,520
early stages of dating. 
And you know, a lot of what 

253
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,240
we're talking about too is 
communication. 

254
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,440
Like whether you're just 
starting to see someone or 

255
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,240
you've been in a relationship 
for a while, learning to open up

256
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:46,520
and talk about your feelings is 
essential so you don't abandoned

257
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,280
yourself. 
And the more you abandoned 

258
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,320
yourself, the more you're going 
to anticipate that somebody else

259
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,480
will abandoned you because 
you're projecting that fear 

260
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:57,960
outwards. 
You're already doing it to 

261
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,440
yourself. 
So why wouldn't somebody else do

262
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,640
that? 
And that plays a big role here 

263
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,680
too. 
Whether it's them holding back 

264
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,400
or you holding back, someone's 
got to bring the security to the

265
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,280
table. 
You can't both just hold back 

266
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,840
and expect that the relationship
is going to get healthier and 

267
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,960
more secure. 
Somebody has to open up, and 

268
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,960
it's often times in the 
relationship coming to the brink

269
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,600
where you're opening up about 
how you feel and you're worried 

270
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,880
that you're going to push them 
away or they're going to leave. 

271
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,760
That you see actually that they 
stayed with it and they've been 

272
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,080
hoping that you've been wanting 
to open up or that you will open

273
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,760
up and then you can actually 
deepen the connection from 

274
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,200
there. 
But a lot of it does come back 

275
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,520
to communication I. 
Think yes, it definitely comes 

276
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:46,280
back to communication and I want
to like piggyback onto that pre 

277
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,800
verbal wound a little bit and 
like talk about it a little bit 

278
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,520
more. 
I don't hear it talk about 

279
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,680
talked about enough. 
And so for me, what this looked 

280
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,800
like when that previous acts I 
was discussing him and I were 

281
00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,720
long distance. 
I just remember like my heart 

282
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:05,200
was just straight up on fire and
I knew, oh, he's just going back

283
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,760
to Oklahoma. 
Like I'm going to see him in a 

284
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,000
month. 
But to my body and my brain, it 

285
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,000
felt like he died or he went 
through a breakup. 

286
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,840
I'm like, why is my brain 
feeling this way when he's 

287
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,600
literally alive and he's texting
me and he's telling me that he 

288
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,680
loves me. 
And it was very, very 

289
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,240
terrifying. 
And no amount of logic or 

290
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,360
regulation tools were soothing 
it because it was pre verbal. 

291
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:32,040
And so that pre verbal wound 
needs like that Co regulation 

292
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,240
because it's this zero to 
three-year old if you think 

293
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,080
about it. 
And so doing things like 

294
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,720
rocking, putting on soothing 
lullabies, it's ultimately like 

295
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,160
your body is in this panic 
terror. 

296
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,200
And also, that's why Co 
regulation or a therapist, your 

297
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,920
coach can be deeply, deeply 
healing and even just having 

298
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,160
someone, whether it's your 
partner or a friend or 

299
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,600
something, just like even 
holding your hands and just be 

300
00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,960
like, I'm with you, I'm here. 
And also like, if you're 

301
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,680
noticing that come up, we need 
to also practice being in our 

302
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,880
adult bodies because when we're 
anxiously attached, when we're 

303
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,319
fearing abandonment, we're not 
coming from our true adult self.

304
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:13,079
We're stuck in those younger 
parts. 

305
00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:16,400
So when you can consistently 
practice being in your adult 

306
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:20,720
body, this could be in such 
small ways, like, OK, I notice I

307
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,920
feel really anchored and in my 
adult body when I'm working out 

308
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,079
at the gym, I see how strong I 
am. 

309
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:31,040
Maybe I'm really proud and of 
myself because I went on this 

310
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,800
podcast or I got this promotion 
at work. 

311
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,520
In that moment, I felt in my 
true adult self. 

312
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,200
And so when we can anchor into 
those moments and pay attention 

313
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,280
to them each and every day, 
you're showing your body. 

314
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,760
Hey, I am the adult self now. 
I am my own anchor. 

315
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:53,280
I can learn how to self soothe 
and it's a consistent practice. 

316
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,120
And when you practice this 
enough Times Now when your 

317
00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:59,320
trigger, it's going to be much 
smaller and you're going to be 

318
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,800
able to come back into your 
adult self and you're not going 

319
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:07,520
to be so flooded and overwhelmed
by these anxious parts that feel

320
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,400
like they're taking over. 
Very very well said. 

321
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:15,000
A lot of truth there in terms of
Co regulation. 

322
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:19,280
A lot of times I describe it as 
kind of writing over the pain of

323
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,400
the past through new 
experiences. 

324
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,960
You gather new data, you show 
your nervous system, your body, 

325
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:28,760
that you can be safe, that you 
are in control, that you're not 

326
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,560
at the mercy of everybody else 
around you, that you're no 

327
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:36,480
longer that trapped child who is
at the mercy of their parents or

328
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,560
caregivers. 
And a lot of the distance that 

329
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:47,040
you described hits so deeply at 
home with my experiences, like I

330
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,240
was in a long distance 
relationship for a year with 

331
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,640
someone and it echoed the long 
distance relationship that I had

332
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,000
with my mom growing up. 
I lived in Maryland, she lived 

333
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,600
in Florida. 
And I went from seeing her two 

334
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,600
to three times a month to two to
three times a year at the age of

335
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,040
8 when she moved. 
And you know, you really do 

336
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:13,360
revert back to that, the age 
when you first experience that 

337
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:15,520
kind of pain and you're left 
alone in it. 

338
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,520
That's what is traumatizing 
about it. 

339
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,160
It's not the pain itself, it's 
being left alone with it. 

340
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,080
So if you can re experience 
that, if you can revert back to 

341
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,440
that state and hold space for 
that version of you and for that

342
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:32,240
pain and allow it to be there 
and in some ways to be expressed

343
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,120
and to come to the surface, then
that's a part of it. 

344
00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:39,640
It's also proving to yourself 
now that you do have a choice. 

345
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,400
You have autonomy, you have 
power. 

346
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,640
And. 
All of those things are deeply, 

347
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,960
deeply healing. 
I do want to ask about the 

348
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:55,000
nervous system a little bit more
because that's central to the 

349
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,640
work that I do. 
I know we're aligned, you know, 

350
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,640
philosophically in this because 
we talked about some of this on 

351
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,720
your show. 
But what's happening in the 

352
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,440
nervous system when we keep 
repeating the pattern of dating 

353
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,320
someone emotionally unavailable,
like someone who just. 

354
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,680
Won't commit or really isn't 
looking for the kind of 

355
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,520
relationship that we're looking 
for. 

356
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,800
In other words, with people who 
are wrong for us. 

357
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,280
What's happening in the nervous 
system? 

358
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,880
In the nervous system, actually,
this is a fabulous question. 

359
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,760
What's happening in the nervous 
system is it's looking for the 

360
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,600
familiar. 
So the nervous system, we might 

361
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,240
think if I'm dating someone 
emotionally unavailable, that's 

362
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,400
wrong, that's a mistake. 
But like I mentioned earlier 

363
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,840
about neuroception, it's looking
for the familiar. 

364
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:45,680
Our inner child is also looking 
to put an ending on our 

365
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,120
childhood trauma through a 
similar experience, just like 

366
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:52,800
how Chris mentioned and just 
like in my experiences. 

367
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:57,320
And so it's like our brain and 
our nervous system is looking 

368
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,440
for that familiar experience so 
it can time stamp it and say 

369
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,120
this time is different. 
And now because this emotionally

370
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:08,800
unavailable person loves me, 
that proves that I'm lovable and

371
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,840
enough. 
So our nervous system is 

372
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,560
actually looking for safety when
it's looking toward this 

373
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,880
emotionally unavailable person. 
And I also wrote a post about 

374
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:22,120
this around chasing. 
Chasing gets a really bad rap 

375
00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:25,880
and consciously it's a habit 
that we don't want. 

376
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,680
But from a nervous system level,
chasing is literally just 

377
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,200
showing, hey, I do not have 
enough safety internally, so I 

378
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,360
need to find it externally. 
I'm dependent on that 

379
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,560
emotionally unavailable person 
because I can't do that for 

380
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,880
myself. 
So we're dependent on that other

381
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,840
person. 
And so that's really what's 

382
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,600
happening in the nervous system.
And I just really like to 

383
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,160
reiterate that it's literally 
not your fault if you've been in

384
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,720
this same exact pattern. 
But once we learn how to get 

385
00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:00,040
into our adult body, anchor back
into that, then we can re parent

386
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,000
those young parts of us that 
didn't get the love safety, Co 

387
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,000
regulation and attunement. 
And we can then become that 

388
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,360
securely adult, adult and 
securely attached parent that 

389
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:12,760
this younger part of us never 
received. 

390
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,880
Then what happens is we are no 
longer longer attracted to these

391
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,120
emotion unavailable partners. 
We start to feel literally 

392
00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:25,000
repulsed by them. 
It's it your body will scream at

393
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,400
you. 
And even for me, for example, 

394
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:33,400
think I went on a date, this one
date like around last year, I he

395
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,240
was 15 minutes late. 
I mean, whatever it happens. 

396
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,680
But as soon as I saw him, I'm 
like, something feels off in my 

397
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,560
body. 
And then I remember we were at 

398
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,840
this coffee shop and we were 
just sitting talking. 

399
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,600
And I look up for just a second 
and he goes, oh, do you think 

400
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,920
that guy is cute? 
Like he was threatened and 

401
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,920
jealous and was showing that. 
And he was opening up about his 

402
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,800
mental health and he was saying 
just like a lot of projections 

403
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,960
on to me. 
And it just like did not feel 

404
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,000
good. 
And he kept stating that he was 

405
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,000
afraid that he was making 
mistakes. 

406
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,160
He was afraid that he just that 
he wasn't going to get a second 

407
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,840
date with me. 
And it was just like really 

408
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,160
repulsive. 
Like I could feel him and his 

409
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,280
energy. 
And it was just like, no, it was

410
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,200
just all of it was giving very 
emotionally unavailable to me 

411
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,400
and what I was sensing. 
And a lot of these patterns just

412
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,400
really made my body feel 
repulsed. 

413
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,880
And I told him as soon as the 
day ended, hey, I just don't 

414
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,520
think this is a good fit. 
Like wishing the best for you, 

415
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,200
but that's an example of how 
like our neuroception will 

416
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:47,000
switch after we're doing this 
work because I have worked a lot

417
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,840
on my fear of abandonment. 
But before then I would have 

418
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,920
been like, oh, he can change. 
Maybe if I get I'm a great 

419
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,080
therapist, maybe with the 
coaching tools that I share, he 

420
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,800
can use them and heal. 
But no, I was like, I just don't

421
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,640
think this is a good fit. 
And my body told me first. 

422
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,400
That point right there, that 
part, listen to your body. 

423
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,520
You know, obviously you were 
picking up on some of the 

424
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:15,440
insecurity and the anxiety that 
this person was experiencing. 

425
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,680
And while this isn't meant, you 
know, to put that person on 

426
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,160
blast or to be a judgment or 
anything like that, of course, 

427
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,920
this is about assessing fit for 
you And after the work that 

428
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:32,080
you've done and also doing this 
work professionally, like I can 

429
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,440
imagine picking up on that is a 
big turn off. 

430
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,640
Like, you know, you want someone
stable. 

431
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,680
You want to also be able to 
separate your work life from 

432
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,720
your personal and your romantic 
life. 

433
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,960
You know, you're already talking
to people in your sessions and 

434
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,000
what not about a lot of these 
same themes. 

435
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,880
So you don't then want to play 
that role in your romantic 

436
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,760
relationship too. 
So the more work you do on 

437
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,400
yourself, the more you do become
unattracted to this kind of 

438
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,960
stuff. 
And there is, I think, and I do 

439
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,960
want to unpack this a little bit
more, but there is this period, 

440
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,360
I think where you're in the in 
between. 

441
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:15,200
You're realizing that you don't 
want to repeat the pattern. 

442
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,640
You don't want to keep dating 
emotionally unavailable people, 

443
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:23,520
but you also don't yet find the 
emotional availability 

444
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:29,800
attractive or you're not turned 
on by someone who is readily, 

445
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,400
you know, putting themselves out
there and being vulnerable and 

446
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,440
expressing that they want a 
relationship And consistent, 

447
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,640
like, let's talk about that 
period because I'm sure many 

448
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,680
people listening to this and 
watching can relate to that, 

449
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,640
right? 
And many of them might even be 

450
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,000
in that space, the in between of
like, I know I don't want to 

451
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,840
repeat what I've done. 
And I also might find some of 

452
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:58,160
this boring. 
Can you talk about that a little

453
00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:59,920
more? 
Yes, absolutely. 

454
00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:04,080
That is such a great statement 
in question because a lot of 

455
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,200
people don't talk enough about 
that. 

456
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:08,880
They just talk about, oh, I was 
in this toxic relationship and 

457
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,240
now I'm in this healthy 1. 
But it's a big shift for your 

458
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,000
nervous system though, right? 
Going back to the neuroception, 

459
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,600
your nervous system is going to 
find those unavailable people as

460
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,640
safe, magnetic. 
You're going to have this 

461
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,360
irresistible, Yep, you're going 
to have this irresistible hole, 

462
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:27,280
right? 
And then with the safe and 

463
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,520
healthy ones, they're going to 
feel boring. 

464
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,600
So what we want to do is we want
to start to help our nervous 

465
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,640
system to feel safe in those 
things. 

466
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,120
So like I talked about earlier 
and what Chris and I were 

467
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:42,040
discussing, OK, expressing 
ourselves, how can we start to 

468
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,240
slowly share just a little bit 
more? 

469
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,360
Maybe we start to practice this 
with our friends, with our 

470
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:50,880
community, with our Co workers, 
just wherever that's 

471
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,360
appropriate, right? 
Sharing a little bit more about 

472
00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:55,560
ourselves and expressing those 
parts of us. 

473
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,320
And then also going back to that
nervous system regulation, if 

474
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,600
we're in survival, our body is 
wired for that and it starts to 

475
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,040
think that that is what we need.
So what we want to do is we want

476
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,920
to help our body feel safe in 
the calmness, feel safe in 

477
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,360
gratitude, in opening up our 
heart. 

478
00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:17,880
As we do that more and more, it 
allows our heart to expand. 

479
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,800
It allows our body to feel even 
1% more safe in that what we 

480
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,360
need to do is like dissolve that
resistance. 

481
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:28,920
And even something I utilize is 
called brain spots spotting. 

482
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,040
And I have a free master class 
on this. 

483
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,440
It's like the pull toward 
emotionally unavailable partners

484
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,640
and then processing that and 
then looking at a different spot

485
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,720
that helps you to feel safe and 
healthy love and your adult 

486
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,240
self. 
So one of the somatic modalities

487
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,040
I'm trained in is called brain 
spotting. 

488
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,320
And so brain spotting ultimately
helps you to locate where your 

489
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,920
trauma memories are stored in 
your body and helps you to 

490
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:55,960
process them. 
And it does that through your 

491
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,600
visual field. 
So where you look effects how 

492
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,480
your nervous system feels. 
So in this master class, I guide

493
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,680
people to find a spot in their 
room where they feel that 

494
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,320
magnetic, intoxicating, chaotic 
pull toward this emotionally 

495
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,040
unavailable person. 
And then we process on that. 

496
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,360
And then we go back to OK, a 
time where I felt proud and 

497
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:20,240
capable and safe in my adult 
body. 

498
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,400
So then we're going back and 
forth between those two. 

499
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:29,080
And then as you consistently are
doing that in this practice, it 

500
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,600
shows your body, hey, I actually
want to stay at the adult self 

501
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,840
spot. 
I'm not actually attracted or 

502
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,200
want to keep going to this 
chaotic pull because my body is 

503
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,000
now registering as this is safe.
And we need to do that enough 

504
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:47,000
times, helping our body to feel 
safe in expansion in those 

505
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,480
positive emotions in gratitude. 
And when I started to work on 

506
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,040
that pre verbal wound, my heart 
was able to open up much more 

507
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,920
because even before that 
gratitude, it was something I 

508
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,520
couldn't really tap into. 
Even just being grateful 

509
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,760
day-to-day was just very 
difficult. 

510
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,040
I felt even tension in my heart 
when positive or joyful things 

511
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,680
were happening. 
And so as you, as I healed that 

512
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:14,320
pre verbal wound that told me it
wasn't safe and started to show 

513
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,400
my body, hey, it's safe to be in
gratitude. 

514
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,720
It's safe to be in these 
expansive emotions. 

515
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,000
It's safe to be in my adult 
body. 

516
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,360
That's when I still see for 
opening up more and sharing more

517
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,920
of myself. 
I hope that answered your 

518
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,080
question. 
Yeah, it certainly did. 

519
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,120
Yeah, I've, I've never heard of 
brain spotting before. 

520
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,720
This is so interesting. 
Like I feel like I want to run 

521
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,840
to my browser here and look that
up. 

522
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,440
I love what you're talking about
though, and it definitely 

523
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,640
dovetails with things that I 
talk about here on the show and 

524
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,400
in my work about rewiring and 
that repetition being so 

525
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,400
important. 
You have to show the body 

526
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:56,000
specifically that the sensation 
of stability and peace and calm 

527
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,880
is okay for you to experience, 
and to be able to access that 

528
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,800
and normalize it to the system 
is very, very important. 

529
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,520
Just because many of us learn to
operate on all cylinders or all 

530
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:14,280
gears all the time, we actually 
learn through trauma to almost 

531
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,520
thrive under stress. 
And this is where things like 

532
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,120
PTSD and CPTSD can come into the
picture. 

533
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:26,080
You know that stress is playing 
a role in what feels familiar to

534
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,040
you. 
And part of the butterflies that

535
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,080
we might get with someone or 
that magnetism that you 

536
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,480
absolutely named earlier is 
rooted in this. 

537
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:41,280
The body becomes stressed, but 
we're mistaking that for safety 

538
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:47,440
because it has become such a 
familiar operating state for us.

539
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,040
Sometimes I almost look at this 
like a program or like software 

540
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:59,880
that your body, the hardware is 
running and if you want to have 

541
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,160
a different outcome, you need to
update the software. 

542
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,960
And part of updating the 
software means that you have to 

543
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:12,560
retrain the system to reorient 
towards actual safety and 

544
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,480
stability. 
And I think that's what you're 

545
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,520
talking about when you talk 
about brain spotting. 

546
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,480
Did I get that right? 
You got it. 

547
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,960
You got it 100% Yeah. 
It's, it's helping those safe 

548
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,480
and peaceful feelings feel OK in
your body. 

549
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,400
And it's like also being like, 
OK, I can open my heart. 

550
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,680
I can also feel those happy 
gratitude joy states as well. 

551
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,480
And listen, stress is incredibly
addictive. 

552
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:39,280
It's physiologically addictive. 
And so it can really trigger 

553
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,960
that when you're with these 
emotionally unavailable 

554
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,600
partners. 
And that has happened for myself

555
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,600
too. 
Like I grew up with both my 

556
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,480
parents were very emotionally 
unavailable. 

557
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,320
My dad is a narcissist and my 
brother has autism. 

558
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,200
And so I was the parentified 
child. 

559
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,840
I learned that safety and the 
rug can be pulled out underneath

560
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,000
me at any point in time. 
And so for me, it was a lot of 

561
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,840
deconditioning. 
And it's something that I 

562
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,360
consistently practice every day 
is my my regulation tools is 

563
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,920
opening up my heart more and 
more and more because it's not 

564
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,840
something like just like with 
the gym or I go to the gym once 

565
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,680
and I'm going to be shredded. 
Absolutely not. 

566
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,120
You want to continuously show 
your body, Hey, it's safe to be 

567
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,400
here and adding on with the 
butterflies and kind of goes 

568
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,120
into your other question. 
A lot of people are looking for 

569
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,720
this spark, but really that's 
your attachment trauma getting 

570
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,840
reactivated. 
Like even if you have a very 

571
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,320
strong like sexual attraction to
someone, like you're like, I 

572
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,520
want to have babies with them, I
want to get married, I want to 

573
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,360
have sex with them right now. 
The first like when you see 

574
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,080
them, that is literally your 
attachment trauma getting 

575
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,000
activated. 
And that's what happened in my 

576
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,840
previous relationship, one of my
previous relationships. 

577
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,840
And Woo is, is that the truth? 
Mm hmm. 

578
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,840
Yeah, no that. 
So like beware. 

579
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:06,480
Of that, that people are seeking
out at the end of needing no 

580
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,640
more of the book I write that if
you take nothing else away from 

581
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:15,040
the book to let it be this, that
you can't look for love based on

582
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,520
butterflies or sparks or 
chemistry. 

583
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,240
There's a lot of different names
for this, but that you want to 

584
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,080
look for the things that 
actually you didn't have. 

585
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:30,280
The stability, the safety, the 
consistency, the peace, the 

586
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,760
mundanity of it. 
You want boring. 

587
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,960
If you've been through enough 
experiences of traumatic stress,

588
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,280
you don't need more stress. 
You don't need more 

589
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,520
inconsistency. 
You don't need more of the 

590
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,080
roller coaster. 
You've already been on that ride

591
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,320
again and again and you know 
where it goes. 

592
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,880
It is a loop. 
I mean, the roller coaster is an

593
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,160
apartment analogy for this. 
You're going to go through the 

594
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,440
ride again and again. 
It will have a similar outcome 

595
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,640
because you're chasing someone 
who cannot or will not meet the 

596
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,480
kind of emotional depth that you
actually need in order to heal 

597
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,800
the pattern. 
So that is a big part of this. 

598
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,679
I also think for folks when 
they're in that interstitial 

599
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:20,800
phase that I mentioned earlier 
of almost holding both the 

600
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:26,239
attraction to the unavailability
and then trying to reach for 

601
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,760
becoming attracted to 
availability, and you're holding

602
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,800
both of those things and you're 
in in between. 

603
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,639
There is a point at which you're
going to have to make an active 

604
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:38,639
choice to reach for one over the
other. 

605
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:41,600
And it's going to feel 
uncomfortable no matter how much

606
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:46,040
conditioning or unlearning or 
retraining you do with your 

607
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,880
system. 
And I worked with a client a 

608
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:54,120
couple of years ago who exhibit 
this, exhibits this directly, 

609
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,040
and we went through the coaching
program. 

610
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,920
She had been single for six 
years. 

611
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:04,440
Like, really, really looking for
her partner, watching all of her

612
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,560
girlfriends around her get 
married, have kids, you know, 

613
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:13,040
being the bridesmaid and the 
person on The Bachelorette and 

614
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,320
standing up there at the altar 
next to the person getting 

615
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,440
married. 
And just with each time feeling 

616
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,160
less and less worthy of it, Like
it would never happen for her. 

617
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,560
And towards the end of our work,
she went on a date with someone 

618
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,440
that she normally wouldn't have 
even given a chance. 

619
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:33,840
And they actually ended up 
having sex on the first date. 

620
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,400
And then she came to me and she 
was like, I don't know. 

621
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:37,720
I don't know if I'm really 
feeling this. 

622
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:40,560
And I'm like, well, let's just 
square this away. 

623
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,560
You had sex with this person. 
You're clearly attracted to them

624
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,160
physically. 
No. 

625
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,800
And she's like, yeah, of course.
And so I started digging deeper 

626
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,920
with her, like, OK, well, what 
is it? 

627
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,760
What is it about this person 
that you're not sure of? 

628
00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:00,720
He doesn't drive the kind of car
that I thought my partner would.

629
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:02,400
He's not as tall. 
He doesn't have the broad 

630
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,320
shoulders. 
You know, a lot of these surface

631
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,640
level things started coming up. 
And I'm like, well, obviously 

632
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,160
this didn't matter, you know, 
when you were on the date and we

633
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,440
didn't talk about this in terms 
of things that were important to

634
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,800
you when we were working through
needs and values in the coaching

635
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,120
program. 
So I pushed her and I said, you 

636
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,240
know what? 
I'm going to encourage you to 

637
00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:26,200
give this person a chance. 
It's OK if you're a little bit 

638
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,360
apprehensive or you have doubt. 
You don't need to be certain 

639
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,160
about someone when you're dating
them, especially very early on. 

640
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,280
Like the whole purpose is to get
to know them and just ask, do I 

641
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:37,920
want to go on another date with 
them? 

642
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,440
So she did. 
And then she went on another day

643
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,920
and another date. 
And as she did, she still had 

644
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,480
the apprehension and the fear 
and the doubt. 

645
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:52,280
But over time, she also started 
feeling more comfortable and 

646
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,600
safer, and she had more 
experiences of that stability. 

647
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,400
And I just encouraged her to 
talk to him about how she was 

648
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,320
feeling. 
Like, tell him that you're 

649
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,840
afraid. 
Tell him that you haven't ever 

650
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,560
dated someone like him and 
that's scary to you. 

651
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,080
Share it and see how he 
responds. 

652
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,720
And every time he was able to 
hold space for her. 

653
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:20,840
And it was beautiful to witness 
how she was able to let her 

654
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,000
guard down and really let some 
of that safety in. 

655
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:30,000
It did not happen all at once. 
It was a slow accumulation over 

656
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,280
the course of months. 
But six months later, they had 

657
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,640
said, I love you. 
They were talking about moving 

658
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,360
in with one another. 
And Fast forward a couple of 

659
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,640
years later, they're married. 
They've been married for over a 

660
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,440
year now. 
And you know, she is so grateful

661
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,400
that she stuck it out and stayed
in there because if she hadn't, 

662
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,480
she would have rolled out 
someone who has been so deeply 

663
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,160
healing for her. 
But you better bet she had a lot

664
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,200
of experiences of doubt and 
worry and anxiety and fear. 

665
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,600
And I just want people watching 
and listening to this to 

666
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,040
understand that those things are
going to come up as you're 

667
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:13,120
learning how to let safety in 
and to embrace this stability 

668
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,280
that someone can offer you. 
And it's not the presence of 

669
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,440
those things that indicates 
whether or not someone is good 

670
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,680
for you. 
You're allowed to experience 

671
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,400
those things and see over time 
that, wow, they really can be 

672
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,120
the kind of partner that I never
thought I could have. 

673
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,520
She stopped. 
She stepped out of the role of 

674
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,440
self sabotaging and into the 
role of just exploring and being

675
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:39,800
curious. 
And I thought that that was so 

676
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,000
beautiful to witness. 
Wow, Chris, that is so 

677
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,480
beautiful. 
And I just love that because of 

678
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,840
course the nervous system is 
going to freak out. 

679
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,640
Not because you're doing 
anything wrong, because it's 

680
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,600
uncertain. 
It's different. 

681
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:57,080
And also, as you continue doing 
this work, you will naturally be

682
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,080
repulsed by the opposite of 
emotionally unavailable or 

683
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,680
narcissistic people. 
Like your body will not allow 

684
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,000
it. 
But you know, at first it might 

685
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,600
feel a little uncomfortable. 
It's completely new, but that 

686
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,560
does not mean that you shouldn't
give it a chance. 

687
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,920
And that just gives a beautiful 
example. 

688
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,920
And even like with clients, 
because it's like they can feel 

689
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,000
so uncomfortable in that safety 
and feeling bored. 

690
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,200
It's like titrating that slowly 
on your own without a 

691
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,520
relationship before that, you 
know, even like for me, I would 

692
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,200
start with because I was very 
busy, busy, busy, Go, go, go to 

693
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:35,040
avoid what was happening in my 
heart, in my body. 

694
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,320
Just starting with, OK, can I 
just sit in silence for one 

695
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,840
minute and then maybe in a month
I or a few weeks, I can go to 

696
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:46,080
two minutes and then slowly 
titrating that feeling safer 

697
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,800
just being with my thoughts, 
being with my body. 

698
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,800
And it's like just slowly 
showing her body, Hey, I was in 

699
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,560
this for a minute and I didn't 
die. 

700
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,760
I, I went On this date and I 
didn't die. 

701
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,600
And it's like, that's also a big
protector part and defense 

702
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,480
mechanism to like fault find 
like how she did it. 

703
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,160
That was really her nervous 
system trying to stay in the 

704
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,200
familiar. 
Very well said. 

705
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,680
Yes. 
And it's it's interesting to 

706
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,920
name that because when we're in 
it, it just feels like what an 

707
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:19,800
ick like this is such a turn 
off. 

708
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,560
I don't, I don't know if I want 
to go on another date with this 

709
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,200
person. 
And look, you know, I'm not here

710
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,160
to tell anyone to continue 
dating someone that they just 

711
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,760
don't feel anything with. 
But if you listen back to the 

712
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,520
story, you can hear how she had 
sex with him on the first date. 

713
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,800
Like, obviously there was 
something there. 

714
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,920
And, you know, all of the things
that she brought up were not 

715
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,040
things that had ever been 
brought up in our work prior to 

716
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,760
that. 
Like, we had had probably 10 to 

717
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,560
15 sessions together. 
And none of those qualities were

718
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,960
ever, ever named. 
That is the only reason why I 

719
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:01,280
encouraged her to stick it out, 
because it appeared to me as if 

720
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,880
she was trying to wiggle her way
out of this. 

721
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:08,320
And the only way we were going 
to find out if this person could

722
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:13,040
really be the kind of partner 
that she might need would be to 

723
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,600
stick it out. 
And to to see how he responded 

724
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,200
to her feelings when she shared 
them, to not hold them in, but 

725
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,800
to allow for them to be 
expressed like we talked about 

726
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,560
earlier. 
And then just to see like, does 

727
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,640
this person have the capability 
of holding space for my doubt 

728
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:37,120
and my fear and my worry? 
And if he hadn't of had that 

729
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,840
capability, then maybe the 
outcome would have been 

730
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,360
different. 
But he was able to say, you know

731
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,400
what, I get that. 
Like I've been there. 

732
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,120
I want you to know you can 
always come to me and tell me 

733
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,600
how you're feeling. 
And what an important and 

734
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:56,680
beautiful experience for her to 
go through because that was 

735
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,680
writing over some of the pain of
the past that she experienced 

736
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,640
with her own father who was not 
emotionally available. 

737
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,320
And she had dated the person 
with the nice car and the broad 

738
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,360
shoulders and the beautiful head
of hair and, you know, the 

739
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:15,280
swagger and the money and all of
those surface level things. 

740
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,880
And so I was able to say, like, 
is that really the path that you

741
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,080
want to go down again? 
Are are you going to do that 

742
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:27,640
again and let this person who 
has repeatedly shown up for you 

743
00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:32,400
go, are you willing to release 
that person to maybe be with 

744
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,880
somebody else in the hopes of 
finding someone that has the car

745
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,360
and the job and the money and 
the more vain aspects of what 

746
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:46,000
you might want in a partnership?
The ironic part is now that 

747
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,920
they're married, he has the job,
has the car, is in a much better

748
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,680
place than he was previously. 
So that's also why I was like, 

749
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,200
look, you know, people can lose 
their jobs, they can lose 

750
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:57,880
everything. 
Like you don't want to pick a 

751
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:03,240
partner based on that, but very,
very interesting to witness 

752
00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:05,400
there. 
Hmm, Yeah, how beautiful. 

753
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,480
And yeah, I know you talked a 
lot about this also in the 

754
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,320
beginning. 
It's like we need to show our 

755
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,520
nervous system proof that the 
past is over, this is different 

756
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,360
now, and having those 
disconfirming experiences are 

757
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,000
deeply healing. 
We need to do the drama healing 

758
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,240
and nervous system regulation 
and all the things right, but we

759
00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:25,000
need to also show our body that 
this is different. 

760
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,440
Amen to that. 
I will say working with a 

761
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,440
professional I think helped her 
tremendously. 

762
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,000
I think she would have left if 
she had been left to her own 

763
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,520
devices. 
I, I was able to be a person 

764
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,960
that she could trust when she 
did not trust herself. 

765
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,720
And that's something that a 
professional can do for you if 

766
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:48,240
you're not able to really trust 
your own gut instincts. 

767
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,960
So whether that's a therapist or
a coach or even like a really 

768
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:57,000
close friend, recognize that 
someone else can help you to see

769
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,960
this and work through those 
feelings. 

770
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,120
And you might need support in 
order to get there. 

771
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,800
But she did make the choice. 
She kept going on the dates. 

772
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,080
She trusted in exploring, and 
she brought a lot of curiosity 

773
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,200
and compassion to the table. 
She worked through her fear. 

774
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:18,520
She shared it like this was not 
easy for her to do, but she kept

775
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,640
showing up. 
She kept giving it her all. 

776
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,760
And it's not like she did this 
perfectly or anything. 

777
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,880
You know, there were moments 
where she didn't respond to him 

778
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:29,800
for a couple days. 
And he's like, hey, you know, 

779
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:31,840
are we still on for Thursday 
night? 

780
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,760
And she's like, yes, yes, yes. 
You know, So look, you don't 

781
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,840
have to do any of this 
perfectly, but it is important 

782
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,000
to recognize this is a choice 
that you will have to make. 

783
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,240
You will have to at some point 
do the uncertain thing, do the 

784
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:47,720
thing that is opposite of what 
you're accustomed to doing, 

785
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:53,000
Reach for the mundane, calm, 
boring person and maybe stick it

786
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:57,120
out to see if your feelings 
might develop for them after 

787
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,920
you're able to experience 
emotional security and safety 

788
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:02,480
with this person. 
And if it doesn't develop, then 

789
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,200
then obviously I don't want you 
to remain in a loveless or what 

790
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,000
seemingly feels like empty 
relationship. 

791
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:14,480
But if you can get there at 
least a little bit in terms of 

792
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,240
developing attraction from the 
emotional connection, then yes, 

793
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,160
yeah, that might be someone to 
continue exploring. 

794
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,400
Yeah, it's huge. 
It, like Chris said, it's not 

795
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,600
about forcing someone to be with
someone healthy or stable. 

796
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,840
That's also coming from a trauma
response, right? 

797
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,440
Like forcing yourself. 
But it's like that emotional 

798
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,400
connection, that physical 
connection was still there for 

799
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,840
her, right? 
Like she was able to develop it 

800
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,120
and feel safer in it. 
And yeah, it's just, it's huge. 

801
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,400
It's so huge. 
And it's like when we can take 

802
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:48,760
that leap of faith and be like, 
OK, what if I can trust this 

803
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,280
situation? 
What if I can trust myself that 

804
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,240
I can have my own back no matter
what happens? 

805
00:45:55,240 --> 00:45:58,800
Because the opposite of anxiety 
is not calm, it's self trust. 

806
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,280
Yes, Amen to that. 
I say that all the time. 

807
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:06,640
As we wind down today's episode,
I wanted to do just some rapid 

808
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,840
fire questions here. 
If someone's in the midst of 

809
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,320
this pattern, what's one thing 
that you would tell them to do 

810
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,480
immediately right off the bat? 
Vegas toning. 

811
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,960
So Vegas toning, we essentially 
have something called our vagus 

812
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,320
nerve and it controls whether or
not our fight or flight system 

813
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,440
gets turned on, whether or not 
we're anxious. 

814
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,520
And so when we've been exposed 
and experienced chronic stress 

815
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,280
or trauma, it stops working as 
efficiently. 

816
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,600
So then it gets stuck on. 
That's where this hyper 

817
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,160
vigilance and chronic anxiety is
stemming from. 

818
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,720
So when we can learn to 
stimulate this nerve nerve 

819
00:46:39,720 --> 00:46:43,840
through vagus toning exercises, 
it helps our body to send those 

820
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,120
safety signals not just to our 
brain, but to our whole body, 

821
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,640
because our vagus nerve controls
so much. 

822
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:54,080
It controls our organs, it 
controls our breathing, it 

823
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,200
controls our immunity, so many 
things. 

824
00:46:57,240 --> 00:47:00,960
And so that's one thing. 
If there's one thing to start 

825
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,640
with, it would be to do that. 
Vagal toning everyone. 

826
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,880
Yes, things like cold exposure, 
breath work, meditation, they 

827
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,360
can all help with this body 
movement. 

828
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,000
Even there are eye exercises, 
eye movement exercises you can 

829
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,320
do to stimulate the vagus nerve.
So there's plenty of 

830
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,240
opportunities to explore there 
for folks. 

831
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,480
What is 1 misconception about 
anxious attachment you wish more

832
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,160
people understood? 
A misconception about anxious 

833
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,640
attachment is you are not needy.
I hate the statement like 

834
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,000
they're too needy or they're too
clingy. 

835
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,640
It's like when we look at it, if
someone is stuck in the desert 

836
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:42,240
for a month with no food and no 
water, if someone comes up to 

837
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:44,640
them and they give them junk 
food, they're going to be like, 

838
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,400
Oh my God, thank you so much you
saved my fucking life. 

839
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,320
Like I was starving and about to
die. 

840
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,760
And so with anxious attachment 
and if you have a lot of needs, 

841
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,680
that does not make you needy. 
It's just literally a result of 

842
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,120
you not getting your needs met. 
And there's no such thing as 

843
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:03,640
needy. 
There's no such thing. 

844
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,360
So I just really wish that 
people could remove that from 

845
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,640
their vocabulary. 
And I know a lot of people 

846
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,560
listening have maybe been called
that, and it's super wrong. 

847
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,320
And it's just also just not 
true. 

848
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,000
It's like, can we just have 
compassion for this inner child 

849
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,520
that's been starved of love for 
decades? 

850
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:21,040
I'm snapping. 
Yeah. 

851
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,040
I mean, look, that's why I named
the podcast, the book, The 

852
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,440
Coaching program, All Needy No 
More because you are never 

853
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,600
needy. 
And we have to stop using that 

854
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:33,240
phrasing. 
Needy No more doesn't mean that 

855
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,640
you're needy. 
It means you never work to begin

856
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,720
with. 
And you shouldn't be using that 

857
00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:40,520
to describe emotional needs, 
which are all relative because 

858
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,480
you're relating to somebody 
else. 

859
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,400
So this is also rooted in 
someone's capability or 

860
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,240
willingness to show up and meet 
those needs. 

861
00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:51,360
Yes 100%. 
OK, what's a daily practice or 

862
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,480
reminder you personally use to 
stay grounded? 

863
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,240
I would say for me, OK, can I 
say 2? 

864
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:00,120
Sure. 
Yeah, yeah. 

865
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,280
Awesome. 
So right now I'm living in 

866
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,880
Colombia. 
I'm a digital nomad and Chris 

867
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,760
and I were talking a little bit 
about this on on the podcast and

868
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,640
about his move and all the 
amazing things. 

869
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,640
And in Colombia there's this 
like amazing hammock and it like

870
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,800
rocks and it's outside on our 
balcony and it's like, I love 

871
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:18,120
it. 
I love it so much. 

872
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:23,520
That's like one thing. 
A second thing is I do different

873
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,880
somatic exercises to help me 
feel into my adult body and then

874
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,040
also remembering different times
going back to what I said 

875
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,000
earlier, like anchoring back 
into my adult self. 

876
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,920
You know, when I do that and 
practice that, I feel so much 

877
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,280
more grounded in my body. 
So those are like 2 top things 

878
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:45,000
that I really, really love to do
that are so imperative for me. 

879
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:48,160
I love that. 
I mean, that hammock sounds 

880
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:50,640
incredible. 
That rocking motion is just, 

881
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,000
it's really soothing to the body
and it does help to reset the 

882
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,280
nervous system. 
I just want to name that for 

883
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,480
folks who might not know that 
inherently. 

884
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,880
Last question here, what's 1 
sentence you hope listeners 

885
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:03,560
really take away from this 
episode? 

886
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,360
One sentence You cannot change 
yourself through shame. 

887
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:09,680
You can only change yourself 
through love. 

888
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,120
Meaning you can't shame yourself
into changing yourself. 

889
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,520
The only thing you can do. 
It sounds so cheesy, but the 

890
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:21,160
only thing you can do is learn 
how to love yourself because 

891
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,360
that's how we rewire our nervous
system in our body and what 

892
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,040
we're attracted to and just 
honestly feel better in 

893
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,200
ourselves and our bodies, in the
world, in our relationships. 

894
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,040
Yeah, you can't hate yourself 
into a version of yourself that 

895
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:34,920
you love. 
It doesn't work like that. 

896
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:39,640
It's many people try to do that 
because they learned through 

897
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:43,680
conditioning and modeling, 
usually by parents, that if they

898
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,520
pressure themselves, if they 
criticize themselves, they 

899
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,760
almost treat themselves like a 
workhorse, like do do run more 

900
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,200
and more, that they'll finally 
get where they want to go. 

901
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,480
And this speaks to something 
really important too, which is 

902
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,680
that healing is not always about
doing. 

903
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,880
It's also about learning to be 
with yourself and to accept who 

904
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,960
you are as a result of the 
experiences that you have been 

905
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:09,560
through, to accept yourself as a
foundation that you can build 

906
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,280
upon for your evolution. 
You can't reach for a new 

907
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,280
version of you without fully 
embracing who you are in this 

908
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,680
moment now. 
So, yeah, I echo that sentiment 

909
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,360
fully. 
All right, Valerie, beautiful 

910
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,560
discussion today. 
Lots of really poignant, 

911
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:29,040
powerful stuff here. 
How can people find you in any 

912
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,800
resources that you want to share
before we depart? 

913
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,480
Yes, thank you so much. 
So like I talked about earlier, 

914
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,400
I have a free master class all 
about breaking your attraction 

915
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,480
to emotion unavailable partners 
that guides you through adult 

916
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,360
self anchoring, guides you 
through the brain spotting 

917
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:51,840
practice and also guides you 
through tapping to heal that 

918
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,360
fear of abandonment and repair 
that inner child. 

919
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:58,400
So kind of everything that we 
went over in practice, it's so I

920
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,400
would love for people to try it 
out. 

921
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,800
It's been very, very 
transformational for the people 

922
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,400
and folks who've joined. 
And then you can find me on 

923
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:10,560
Instagram. 
It's Heal with Val, HEAL with 

924
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,240
Val. 
And then also, of course, my 

925
00:52:13,240 --> 00:52:16,160
podcast that Chris was on. 
I would love for you guys to 

926
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,000
listen to that episode I did 
with Chris. 

927
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,120
It's the Anxiety Recovery 
podcast with Valerie Rubin. 

928
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:23,840
And Chris, just thank you so 
much for having me on. 

929
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,600
It was so fun and I'd love to 
dive deep into this. 

930
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:28,960
You're very welcome. 
Definitely check out those 

931
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,600
resources from Val. 
Val, thank you so much again. 

932
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:32,280
Thank you.