1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,160 All right, man, what are you drinking there? 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,120 Got a? Summit Extra Pale Ale, but. 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,240 Where's that from? I'm, I'm in the Twin Cities. 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,320 So yeah, Summit's one of the not exactly a micro brew, you know, 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,240 it's, it's all over the place here, but it's good stuff, 6 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,440 pretty basic. I keep it simple. 7 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:19,720 A hot butcher. I don't know if you're familiar 8 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:21,560 from with Chicago's. But. 9 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,600 Yeah, Maxwell and Kony hit the road. 10 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:26,880 Very nice. Yeah. 11 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,080 What is it? Yeah, it's just a double ND 12 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,120 double IPA 7.7. Yeah, it's. 13 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,200 Yeah, there's. It's hard to find a bad hot 14 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,080 butcher. Although I did have one the 15 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,000 other day I didn't love but I can't remember the name of it. 16 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,040 I was, I was at the liquor store today thinking about, you know, 17 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:47,800 grabbing something for this. And I thought I'll look for 18 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,280 anything that's a baseball tie in, you know, word play or 19 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,680 something. Yeah, there was an Atomic 20 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:59,320 Torpedo IPA, 6 pack of those. The ABV on him was 9.2 and I was 21 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,520 like, I could drink one of those tonight. 22 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:03,400 I don't know when the other five are going. 23 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,440 So kept it. Kept it basic. 24 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,760 Yeah, yeah, 9's pretty high. My brother in law's like that. 25 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,280 He's he's like a big like you know, like 10% and more. 26 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,400 He'll send me beer. Sometimes I'm just like, dude, 27 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,200 yeah, I like to, yeah, enjoy my beer and not pass out. 28 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,560 But yeah, all right, I'm watching that. 29 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,040 They're still in the 7th inning in this game as we're recording. 30 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,800 I don't know if you've been watching this game. 31 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,400 Following it, yeah. OK, I swear I'm always paranoid 32 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,360 I'm going to mispronounce people's names even though I've 33 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,720 heard it 1000 times already, but by Esteros comes up with the 34 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,360 bases loaded like in the 4th inning. 35 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,760 And I thought for sure he was going to like, you know, RIP 1 36 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:44,800 into the gap or something. Because like every Cubs 37 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,160 prospect, you know how it is. They always, they always show 38 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,000 up. In their first game, the 39 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,400 Velasquez hit a Grand Slam. Yeah, I can't remember, Was that 40 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,040 his first game? Well, it was that his first 41 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,120 game, it was really early on. And in contrast, at home on his 42 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,360 first at bat, Yeah, I swear, I, I there's something about the 43 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,640 last was that I felt like it was pretty significant, like there 44 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,800 was pretty early on. That was part of that big 45 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,720 comeback in that, like, weird April game. 46 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,800 And, you know, the Mariners in town in April couldn't have felt 47 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,880 less like anything should feel, but yeah. 48 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,040 Yeah. All right, so how do you mean? 49 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,200 I haven't had a chance to talk to you, but although you and I, 50 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,440 we go back, you're an OG on this podcast. 51 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,440 In fact, I think you were the only guy that I did a podcast 52 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,680 with during like the midst of COVID. 53 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:34,600 That's right. We were just like, all right, 54 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,240 baseball's coming back. We'll talk about like if the 55 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,440 managers are wearing masks and like how close everybody's going 56 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,120 to be in the dugout. It's yeah, it was weird. 57 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,240 I've just tried to wipe. Basically just pretend that 58 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,720 season doesn't exist. Oh, totally. 59 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,120 Yeah, totally. That's why I felt bad for the 60 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,600 Dodgers until they and not actually, not that I usually 61 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,680 feel bad for the Dodgers, but actually I felt like good that 62 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,360 they actually won a real one last year. 63 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,480 I was like that. That thing was like a cheap 64 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:04,800 yeah. Yeah, we could escape a little 65 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,640 bit of discourse that way. Yeah. 66 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:10,720 So regardless, what do you think of this Cubs team overall? 67 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,560 It's a fun team, man. It's a, it's a good team. 68 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:20,640 I think maybe people got a little over excited at one stage 69 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:23,680 of their of this surge, but also Cubs fans. 70 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,640 Well, you know what, honestly, it's been hard to accuse Cubs 71 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:30,760 fans of getting too excited the last few years. 72 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,640 I've had to drag some people into, you know, these last 73 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:36,800 couple years. Were those teams good enough? 74 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,640 No. Was there valid criticism to 75 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,040 levy at the front office and ownership? 76 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,320 For sure, absolutely. And at the same time, I thought 77 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,160 those teams had some fun elements and put together a 78 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,280 push, even though it was a kind of, you know, it was a fake 79 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:54,960 rally kind of thing within a season. 80 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,920 But I still think those were interesting teams. 81 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:00,400 This team's better than interesting. 82 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,720 I still think they're flaws and we're seeing them because the 83 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,440 pitching depth is being tested so much with steal and Imanaga 84 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,640 shell. But I like this team. 85 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,960 I think they're they're engaging. 86 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,640 There's a lot of interesting talent on it and maybe more on 87 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,000 the way like we're seeing by Stairs get his first shot 88 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,440 tonight. Yeah, I mean, you and I have 89 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,800 been, you know, fairly critical of Jed at least. 90 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,960 You know, I think fairly. I feel like there's been some 91 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,680 ups and downs and we know that it's not all his fault in terms 92 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,120 of, you know, what he's been given as far as resources. 93 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,440 But I've got to give him. I don't know. 94 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:38,960 How do you feel? Do you want to give him credit 95 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:40,960 for this year? Because I feel like this roster 96 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,040 overall was put together pretty well. 97 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,520 I'll be at, you know, we're still probably like another 98 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,560 starter or a couple bullpen arm short, but with the system kind 99 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,320 of starting to provide a spark like I feel like overall the the 100 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,680 organization looks solid. Yeah, yeah. 101 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,800 I mean, I think this is what he's been trying to build all 102 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,160 along. So for sure this is the season 103 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,320 to judge him on. I felt that, you know, I've, 104 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,600 I've had my frustrations with the whole of this process, 105 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:17,600 especially at times in the last couple of years where it just 106 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,800 felt like there was more they could do to to put the hammer 107 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,400 down, but they also caught a couple of bad breaks. 108 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,480 And I think his mission, certainly what he perceived to 109 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:33,600 be his mission was to build that farm system, that pipeline that 110 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,560 never really got laid under Theo. 111 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,800 You know, they put together this team full of first round picks 112 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,120 and so ostensibly it's home grown. 113 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,840 They get to brag on that. They get to, you know, win the 114 00:05:44,840 --> 00:05:47,000 World Series with a really young roster too. 115 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,320 And there was just never a second wave behind it and there 116 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,720 was never really good player development to pair with the 117 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,920 scouting. It was just they tanked for a 118 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:57,200 while. They got a bunch of high first 119 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:58,800 round picks and they mostly hit on him. 120 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,320 I think he's tried to put in place a, a process that can last 121 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,880 here. And I have some critiques of the 122 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,640 process you actually executed. But I think it's a good thing to 123 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:11,960 have tried. And we're seeing the fruits of 124 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,080 it this year. And I think a lot of people were 125 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:17,520 real nervous about what they gave up for Tucker. 126 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,800 I know how much people are worried about it. 127 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,640 If this is his only year in Chicago, then that trade looks 128 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,920 really bad to some folks. I'm not even thinking of it that 129 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,160 way. I honestly think you built this 130 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,880 team with a, you know, you were trying to get to an open window 131 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,720 without being sort of over leveraged like they were late in 132 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,120 the last window in 17/18/19. And I think they've actually 133 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,320 done it where you got Saya, you got Hap. 134 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,840 Those guys are under contract just through next year. 135 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,000 You know, the windows closing on steel, it was closing even 136 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,520 before he got hurt in terms of team control. 137 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,720 And Dansby is going to be around a long time, but he's going to 138 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,160 start declining now. So you were kind of building 139 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,080 toward this season. Well, go get that guy who makes 140 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,440 this season something potentially special. 141 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,360 And he did that. I think he would have loved to 142 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,120 do more this winter. And this is one time where I 143 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,200 won't totally blame him because I think the Cubs really, they 144 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,960 tried hard on a couple of guys who just preferred other 145 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:26,800 people's money, which I've said this before, I think one of the 146 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,160 reasons I might not have hired Jed in the first place. 147 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,800 Certainly no Theo in the room with a free agent. 148 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:33,880 You know, he does not know how to land that guy. 149 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,280 He had all the cash he needed to get Bregman or Tanner Scott. 150 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,160 The Cubs were not outbid for those guys. 151 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,440 They just weren't. They were out negotiated for 152 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,600 them. So that's an issue. 153 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:50,000 But he also had a deal done for Jesus Lizardo. 154 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,880 And I know it got reported that that got killed based on Cubs 155 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,320 concerns with Lizardo also got killed based on the Marwitz 156 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,480 concerns with Owen Casey's medicals. 157 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,800 So, you know, he tried to do a lot of stuff this winter. 158 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,560 He actually got the one humongous thing done to add 159 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,040 Tucker to this lineup and the results of really interesting 160 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:12,600 team that is poised to win right now. 161 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,600 They're not as good as the Dodgers, which is unfortunate, 162 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:17,120 but they're still they're still time. 163 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:19,480 Yeah, yeah. And then you know what? 164 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:24,920 It coincided with the fact that PCA is looking at least it's 165 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,640 early. OK, I'm still like, I still need 166 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,960 to see what you have to say about this. 167 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,039 But I'm starting to believe that this kids a star. 168 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:38,000 What do you think? I've been I think I'm a little 169 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,360 bit infamous for my my skepticism on PCA. 170 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:46,520 I might be the last the last Cubs spear person who who has 171 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:51,520 any of that in them. At the same time, even I'm very 172 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,520 excited by the power specifically because look, you 173 00:08:55,520 --> 00:09:00,520 got this guy where swinging this much generally just flat out 174 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,920 doesn't work. That's the basic truth, isn't 175 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,120 it? You can't swing this much and be 176 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,960 really good 99% of the time. The 1% of those guys who can 177 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:14,480 swing this much and be good have to have kind of crazy power. 178 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,760 And that hasn't been his profile, but now we're seeing 179 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,680 it. I'd still like to see him scale 180 00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:23,000 it back. He scaled it back at times, like 181 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,280 just a little bit. It doesn't have, you know, you 182 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,320 don't have to turn into Anthony Rizzo or say, a Suzuki. 183 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:34,400 But if you can just not be swinging more than Javi Baez 184 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,720 ever swung, which he was for long stretches of last year, if 185 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,840 you can rein it in that little bit, then a lot of good things 186 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:43,880 are accessed for you. But even if he does keep 187 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,280 swinging a lot, if he gets to this much pop, it's not going to 188 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,160 matter. The defense is gorgeous and I 189 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,960 can't stop watching just the the little things. 190 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:58,800 I mean, you expect a guy, this Rod, you know, this young, this 191 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,240 full of personality, this full of tools to come up and just 192 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:07,120 make up for mistakes with sheer physical brilliance on fly balls 193 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,360 and things. Instead, he is technically 194 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,000 excellent in addition to having crazy speed and a great arm. 195 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,080 And so that's just a joy to watch. 196 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,600 And I think it's not a situation where all the offense is great 197 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,520 because as you point out, you know, especially when you miss 198 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,840 on a Bregman and you don't get that second big bat to pair with 199 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,080 Tucker, you needed some of this, not maybe all of what he's 200 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,520 provided, but you needed some of this just to stay afloat this 201 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,360 year. And so you're on a little bit of 202 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,640 a high wire because what if he wobbles off of it again? 203 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,680 What if he's swinging at 2/3 of the pitches he sees and putting 204 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:46,720 up a 220 OBP for a month? But I'm starting to believe that 205 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,200 he can avoid falling quite that deep. 206 00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:53,200 And at that point, yeah, he's I don't think he's going to win 207 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:54,920 MVPS. I've heard people say that 208 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:56,960 night, I don't think he's ever going to win an MVP award. 209 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,760 I do think he can collect a bunch of down ballot MVP votes 210 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,720 and make a handful of All Star teams just by being this combo 211 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:10,600 of plus power and crazy defense and the speed shows up all over 212 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,400 his game. Right, yeah, even if he ends up 213 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,520 being just like a 2, you know, 50 hitter that can hit 20 214 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,440 twentyish home runs and plays that kind of defense and gives 215 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,880 you that kind of speed. That's a really valuable player. 216 00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:26,000 I I do, I do. I do see though that he's 217 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,120 working at things. You know, I, I, I just, I can't 218 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,360 help but watch it. You know, I, I, I watch the game 219 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,160 from kind of like a more, you know, human element and I feel 220 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,080 like this kid is working really hard to get better. 221 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,720 So that gives me hope that regardless, I don't think he's 222 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,320 going to fall off too far from this and and if not, he could 223 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,600 possibly even get better. Yeah, the intensity is not going 224 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,280 to be where he comes up short. You know it. 225 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:57,080 We talk so much about the the nice mirror of, of him, of Javi 226 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,240 being traded for him. Yeah. 227 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:03,640 But I think a key element of that is really people thought 228 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:08,120 Javi was too flashy. Was, you know, is he really 229 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,800 interested in all that? He was driven. 230 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,520 He was he was a tenacious player and a really technically 231 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,600 excellent fielder and base runner. 232 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:18,680 He just didn't have any play discipline. 233 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:20,640 And it was not like because he didn't care. 234 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,120 It was because he that that just wasn't wired into him. 235 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,320 Everything else about the game was and he worked really hard at 236 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,840 all of it. I think PC has the same way. 237 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:33,640 It's just how much of play discipline so important to your 238 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,040 game. It's such a baseline skill that 239 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,920 even with those guys that you trust, the makeup you got to go. 240 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:44,640 How well can the make up make up for this potentially devastating 241 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,440 flaw? I don't know, I think it's 242 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,520 actually really rare still from, you know, watching baseball 243 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,400 these years, like to see a guy like Juan Soto that has that 244 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,240 plate discipline or Aaron Judge. It's like I feel like that's 245 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,040 like those guys are the anomaly, you know, to have that kind of 246 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,400 like quick twitch athleticism and still be have that 247 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,360 discipline. That's. 248 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,440 It that's amazing. You ever watch Juan Soto swing 249 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,720 and then just wonder how he ever doesn't swing? 250 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,480 Right, it's it's. He's got such a a violent swing 251 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,280 and he connects so cleanly sometimes and you're like, why 252 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,880 don't you swing way more? But also the fact that he 253 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,520 doesn't swing way more is what makes him great. 254 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,440 Baseball's weird, man. Yeah, it really is. 255 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,400 It's it's it's amazing. So I mean, you're, you're 256 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:27,480 starting to come around a little bit. 257 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:31,200 Like, I feel like the only thing that I'm afraid of is that this 258 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,600 gives Ricketts and the Cubs a little bit of like cushion to be 259 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,320 like, well, maybe, you know, if we don't sign Tucker, we've got 260 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,600 PCA as our start and maybe we can sign a lesser, you know, guy 261 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,200 to play right field. I just feel like Tucker opens up 262 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:49,480 a window, like you were saying, of at least five years, you 263 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,880 know, or some, somewhere in that vicinity if you add enough 264 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,320 pitching. These guys are. 265 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,800 Really, really well. And you're right. 266 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,760 Then it, it really comes down to how much pitching can you add 267 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,720 around him because they've also got this core of offensive 268 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:09,080 prospects of which we, we saw Shaw, which didn't go so great. 269 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:10,920 We're getting to see by esteros now. 270 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,000 We'll probably see others this year. 271 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,920 They've got this potential core. That's it's certainly good 272 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,040 enough. If the starting point is Kyle 273 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,520 Tucker. I don't know. 274 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,840 I, I think honestly, PCA is not going to give them the cover. 275 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,080 They, and I'm, I'm not even sure they're thinking about it as 276 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,320 wanting cover. I think for them it's really 277 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,160 going to come down to what price does he demand and what 278 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,240 structures is he open to? They lost Bregman because 279 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,560 Bregman wanted deferred money for a little bit of kind of 280 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,920 vanity and the Cubs were unwilling to do deferrals. 281 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,440 Well, if Kyle Tucker also wants deferred money so he can pretend 282 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,600 to be getting as much as Shohei or Juan Soto, and the Cubs might 283 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,440 be out of luck because they might just draw that hard line. 284 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,760 I think that would be silly because the Pearls are team 285 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:02,080 friendly. And I don't know what they're, 286 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,760 you know, thinking there. But, you know, I think it'll 287 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,440 come down to what's he asking for and what do they value him 288 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,200 at, which is a little bit of Jed Hoyer's flaw. 289 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,560 We talked about that a lot. He's maybe too rational about 290 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,920 free agents, but he's already gotten a little irrational about 291 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,760 Tucker. The trade itself was a little 292 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,440 bit irrational. If he wants to be a little bit 293 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,960 more than they're going to be able to keep him around and that 294 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:33,240 profiles just he's not going to go downhill anytime real soon. 295 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,680 I don't know why I read this or read into this, but I feel like 296 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:42,600 Hoyer has a thing like where he has guys that he'll, you know, 297 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,240 break the his mold for a little bit. 298 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:45,920 And I feel like he's got a thing for Tucker. 299 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:51,120 So I feel like he'd has kind of put his eggs in this basket, you 300 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,280 know, and I feel like I feel like they have a really good 301 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,200 shot. You know, especially with, you 302 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,400 know, if if the Cubs are contending and Wrigley's rock in 303 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,640 the summer, there might be a point where they put 500 million 304 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,560 or close to in front of Tucker and he's like, you know, let's 305 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:05,680 fuck it. I like it here. 306 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,560 My wife likes it here. Let's roll. 307 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,280 But other than that, I feel like that's that's their best shot. 308 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,880 I thought of something today that, look, you're not going to 309 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,120 get him to make decisions just on a basis like this, but it's 310 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,200 worth baking in a little. Paul Schemes announced he's 311 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,040 going to play for Team USA, right. 312 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,880 Tucker played for Team USA last time and I think loved it and 313 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,160 they loved having him. You know, what you're not going 314 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:39,680 to do is go out and be a free agent and sign a $500 million 315 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,920 contract with a new team at least, and have that team say, 316 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,720 yeah, go spend your whole free agents, your whole spring 317 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,680 training, risking injury, playing for your country. 318 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,520 Yeah, maybe maybe there's a little bit of an opening. 319 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,520 You know, you go to them at the All Star break, you go to them 320 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,800 at the end of the year and you say we're not trying to get you 321 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:04,560 for under market. But if we put up a fair offer 322 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:09,160 right now and you know, out of the many perks that we're going 323 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,040 to throw your way, one of them is go play in the WBC next 324 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,280 spring. Maybe that that helps a little 325 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,480 bit. Use every bit of leverage you 326 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,200 can because I don't think it's going to be easy to talk him out 327 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,440 of going into free agency. And I do think if he gets there, 328 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,440 500 million is going to show up somewhere. 329 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:27,960 Not sure it should. I don't really. 330 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,360 I'm not huge on those deals, but I think it probably will. 331 00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:35,960 And I'm not sure the Cubs will match it if it gets there. 332 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:42,760 So can you go to him with 12 and 480 and say, you know, take your 333 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,280 pick of all these? You know, maybe there's an opt 334 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:49,640 out halfway through, Maybe there's a no trade clause and 335 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,120 maybe, yeah, you can, even though you're attached to a deal 336 00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:58,240 that nobody plays in the WBC under go ahead and go do that 337 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,360 next spring, stuff like that. That's interesting. 338 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,760 Well, I mean with steel outs I'd have to say that that's their 339 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,440 biggest need. But there are times where I 340 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,520 think that there might not be that front end starter that's 341 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,000 that gettable. I mean, Alcantra is not really 342 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,720 pitching great yet and there's going to be at least 5 or 6 343 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,960 teams in a line up anyway, you know, especially with his 344 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,880 friendly contract and his control. 345 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,840 And then you look at teams like the Twins, you know, they're all 346 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,360 of a sudden they're they're back in it, you know, so people are 347 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:34,880 already trying to pick Pablo Lopez or Joe Ryan off that 348 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:36,520 roster. Would you think that there'd be 349 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,360 a possibility the Cubs go after maybe like a middle of the 350 00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:42,920 rotation guy and instead work on the bullpen a little bit more? 351 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:45,920 Yeah. How would you attack it? 352 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:55,680 I think I would probably want to add more to the pen just because 353 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,960 Craig counsel does not seem to trust this pen very much. 354 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,560 And I'm not saying he's necessarily wrong about that. 355 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:09,360 But lately I see a lot of by modern standards, you know, I'm 356 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,200 36 years old. I, I know what a slow hook 357 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,160 actually used to look like and this isn't it. 358 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,520 But by 2025 standards, he's had kind of slow hooks this year, 359 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,840 and I think it's because he doesn't really trust anyone for 360 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,840 whom that door swings open, not even Porter Hodge that much. 361 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:30,360 I know people love Porter Hodge. It's a it's a lot of walks, man. 362 00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:33,400 And every now and then his fastball shape just kind of runs 363 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,720 into a barrel. And if he's already put a guy on 364 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:40,000 in front of that, it's trouble. So I'm not sure how many guys 365 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:44,320 council feels comfortable with. I'd want to just make him more 366 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,680 comfortable because I do think Imanaga will come back and I 367 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,200 think you'll be fine. There's an increased risk from 368 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:52,960 here on out for more hamstring strains. 369 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,840 That's that's a thing. But it doesn't probably won't 370 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,720 happen this year. He'll come back at the end of 371 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,800 May and he'll pitch the rest of the year just fine. 372 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,280 And you'll have Boyd, you'll have Brown now if that 373 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,560 opportunity opens up. I'd be looking, I'd be asking, 374 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,320 I'd be listening, you know, for starters who are available. 375 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,920 But like you said that that Goldilocks guy, not sure he's 376 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,320 going to be out there. I would be open up that pen and 377 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:24,760 trying to make Craig feel free to do the stuff that had Brewers 378 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,320 fans renaming September after him back in the day. 379 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,720 Yeah, I mean, you've watched him, you know, a lot closer than 380 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,680 I have over the years. And you know how he operates 381 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,640 with a bullpen. I mean, this bullpen is not bad. 382 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,560 I mean, there's there's guys there, there's, you know, 383 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,200 Merryweather and Palencia and even at times, like you said, 384 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,440 Hodge, they look good. But I I just don't think that 385 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,640 they're trustable, you know, completely. 386 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:50,400 So I feel like, yeah, if you just got a 9th inning guy, that 387 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,840 would push everybody back into a more realistic. 388 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:57,040 Role, I think that's why they went and got Presley. 389 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:01,960 I think, yeah, Craig is, He adored. 390 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,240 I don't think he would have probably put it quite this way, 391 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:10,080 but he put so much trust in Josh Hader and then Devin Williams 392 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,280 and even a couple of other guys who would be complimentary 393 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,400 pieces within a pen. He loved the dudes who were the 394 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,960 same guy every day, which is rare for a reliever, all 395 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,320 relievers. And he was lucky to have a few 396 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,080 of those, but he really, really knew how to use them. 397 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:30,720 If I know what I'm going to get when that guy comes in the game, 398 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,760 I know exactly the set of situations I do and don't want 399 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,040 to use them in. I think his big problem with 400 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,800 this pen is sometimes Brad Keller is a shutdown dude and 401 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,640 sometimes he's not. And sometimes Daniel Palencia is 402 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,560 a shutdown dude and sometimes he's not. 403 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:50,000 And it's there's no one in that pen that may maybe except Caleb 404 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,880 Thielbar who had a slow start and sort iron things out and you 405 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,400 can pretty much trust him. But that's lower grade too. 406 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,200 That's, you know, that's a medium leverage lefty. 407 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,720 It's not, you know, a bullpen ace. 408 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,960 I think he wants that guy that he knows what it's going to look 409 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:06,720 like. The stuffs not fluctuating 410 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,400 wildly. The strikes are consistent. 411 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,360 Even if they're not, It's not. It doesn't have to be a 3% walk 412 00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:16,960 rate, but don't come in and walk the bases loaded every 3rd 413 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,800 outing. It it drives him nuts. 414 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,160 So they want that consistent guy. 415 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:27,480 Problem is that consistent guy is stupid expensive in July and 416 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,680 and I do think like the Brewers are sinking a little. 417 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,160 What if, you know, if the Brewers fell out of contention 418 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,040 suddenly? Not so much in the pen, but 419 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,080 Freddie Peralta might go on the trade block this summer. 420 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,040 Except the Brewers aren't going to trade Freddie Peralta to the 421 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,480 Cubs, right? So it's like you got to get 422 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,080 lucky enough to have that guy become available from A2 who's 423 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:49,240 actually willing to deal with you. 424 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,200 That's the kind of guy. That's the kind of guy I was 425 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:52,640 thinking about. The Cubs either. 426 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,200 Yeah, no, definitely not. The Cardinals are. 427 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,440 Yeah. Cardinals are coming on strong 428 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,720 right now, yeah. Do you think that's real? 429 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,360 No, I mean not completely, not real. 430 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:08,280 I think we probably even I who I was very low on them just 431 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,000 because I thought the vibes would sort of turn sour and guys 432 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:17,200 might underperform. There's legit talent there, but 433 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,520 I don't think there's enough pitching depth to get them 434 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,480 through the season. I think they're going to Peter 435 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,360 out probably and by the end of June even, but we'll see. 436 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,440 Yeah, I mean, I'm shocked, but again, it's a Cardinal. 437 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,440 So, you know, as a Cub fan, you cannot be shocked. 438 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:33,400 And nor would I be shocked that the Brewers came and took over. 439 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,360 You know, it's just there's just no, you know, there's no rhyme 440 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:41,080 or reason to that kind of shit, But you know, I do feel like 441 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,240 this team is is solid enough. I just feel like, yes, of course 442 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,040 it'd be great to get a top of the rotation guy, but I just 443 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,280 again, I I have my doubts like that that's going to be 444 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,760 available, but we'll see. We still, it's still what, 445 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,920 mid-May? But the bullpen just feels like 446 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,640 it's more reasonable. I just don't know who that guy 447 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,120 would like right now. I can't even tell you the story 448 00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:03,600 where this is the guy who's going to become available. 449 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:08,080 And yeah. Yeah, yeah, there might be guys 450 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:13,040 like even, you know, that there are guys that are at least can 451 00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:16,160 be considered a two or three that might be available, you 452 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,480 know, and I think that'd be fine because I mean, do you think 453 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,040 that Imanaga is the kind of guy you can hand the ball to in game 454 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:26,080 one? I yeah, I I probably trust him 455 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:27,440 too much. Yeah. 456 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,680 I've turned, I've turned around on him because again, all the 457 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,120 things we heard when he was coming out of Japan, he's a 3-4. 458 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:36,560 He's a middle of the rotation guy. 459 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,720 He's solid now. He's actually show me that he's 460 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,280 he's more than that. I mean, the willingness and 461 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,960 ability to add pitches and also, holy cow, the personality, I 462 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,000 think. Oh, totally. 463 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,920 It was probably really hard to scout that just going into him 464 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,600 and his his native culture and and Japanese. 465 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,280 Yeah. Baseball as a culture so 466 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,800 different from MLB, but boy he has the perfect makeup to just 467 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,800 like coming here. Might have even let him blossom 468 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,560 more. I don't know how much of that 469 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,560 like, curiosity and that perfectionism and intensity. 470 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,440 He's got so many good things going that way that yeah, I, I, 471 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,440 I would give him the ball in game one and not even sweat it. 472 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:29,200 But also you'd love to have at least A1A, if not a guy to bump 473 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,960 him back. Yeah, that's why it sucks losing 474 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,200 Steel, because I think Steel was a guy that you'd feel pretty 475 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,440 good about pitching Game 2. I don't know. 476 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,240 Did you get a good look at Horton over the weekend? 477 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,200 Yeah. And I I wanted to absolutely. 478 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,440 Of course, that was going to be my next question about to you is 479 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,080 that how did you think he looked? 480 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,960 I mean, I think that's that dude's legit. 481 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,960 He lost. He lost location with the 482 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,640 breaking ball for a little bit there and it cost him the three 483 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,440 runs, I think a single that was laid in there too well, and then 484 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,880 the Homer. But I think Kate Horton is is 485 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,880 pretty legit and ready to help this team. 486 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,240 The problem is I don't know how careful they want to be with 487 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,000 innings and stuff. Will will they get to October 488 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,240 and still feel good about having him start games and pitch normal 489 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,120 length? I think they should. 490 00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:24,480 I'm not the like only go up 30 or 40 innings at a time per 491 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,080 year. I don't buy into that. 492 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,680 Researchers basically debunked it, but some teams still play 493 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,880 that on the safe side. And if they do that with Horton, 494 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,600 then, you know, I'm not as confident about, let's put it 495 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,960 this way, Matthew Boyd's probably the two behind a 496 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:42,840 menager right now. You'd certainly love to push 497 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:47,600 that back. How good do we feel about Tyone 498 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,760 or Ben Brown? They're Jackal and Hyde just the 499 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:55,760 way a lot of the relievers are. And then, I don't know, I, I 500 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,480 just love to have that one guy who slides everyone down in case 501 00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:01,880 they're not comfortable sending Horton out there. 502 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,560 But I, I love the stuff we've seen from Horton, the way he's 503 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,320 bounced back from last year's injury. 504 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:09,960 I think he's going to be good for them for quite a while. 505 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,720 I'm just not sure it can help like this October, you know? 506 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,160 Yeah, no, I think in a perfect world of steel didn't get hurt 507 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,240 that I thought they could they could use Horton in a different 508 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,840 way, kind of deploy a more like as a reliever, right, like as a 509 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,400 as a weapon, like in multi innings, possibly even. 510 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:33,760 But as it is, what did you think about him and just in terms of 511 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,840 his stuff and his his mountain presence? 512 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,400 It looks like he has. He didn't look he had much fear. 513 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,840 And he's got, he's just got good enough stuff that he really 514 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:51,160 doesn't have to have any fear. It's it's kind of a right-handed 515 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,280 Justin Steele, but the Steele who first, you know, sort of hit 516 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,160 the rotation in 2022 before he lost two ticks on the fastball. 517 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,280 It's this cutting thing that, you know, there's all these 518 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,560 stuff models out there that put A1 number grade on everybody's 519 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,240 every pitch and everybody's arsenal. 520 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,360 They have their uses. I don't love them because people 521 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,240 use them to summarize way, way, way too much and especially to 522 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,760 make judgments about guys without really seeing how it all 523 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,000 works together. When you got that cut ride 524 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,120 fastball and the slider that plays off of it like steelhead, 525 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:34,040 like Horton has, it's nasty. I don't care what the what the 526 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,960 number on it is. If it doesn't have quite the 527 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,720 backspin to miss bats at the top of the zone, whatever, it's 528 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,240 going to get a lot of outs. He's comfortable filling up the 529 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,400 zone with that and the slider. And unlike, you know, Ben Brown, 530 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,480 I wish he just had better command, too. 531 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,680 But the big problem with Brown is it's only two pitches. 532 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,120 Well, Horton's got 4-4 or five even. 533 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,560 Now, how good are the 3rd, 4th and 5th? 534 00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,040 I don't know. Not that great. 535 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,040 But there are just not that many pitchers in the league whose 536 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,200 3rd, 4th and 5th pitches are that good. 537 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,680 His first two are plenty good enough, and he's comfortable 538 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,320 throwing the rest to keep guys off balance. 539 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,880 The makeup, like you mentioned, it just it all looks good out 540 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,960 there. Yeah, I like Kate Horton, short 541 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,680 term and long term, as long as the health holds up. 542 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,680 Yeah, and I think I have to give Judd some credit too for, you 543 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,680 know, Colin Ray and and Matthew Boy, those are great pickups. 544 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,120 I felt pretty good about the gambles that he took on them. 545 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,480 But at the same time, I didn't think that, you know, Boyd would 546 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,440 would be this much of a factor. So, you know, still is there's 547 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,120 still time where that thing might not look as good, you 548 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,960 know, in a couple months. But as of right now, yeah, it 549 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,560 looks really good. Ben Brown, I have my, you know, 550 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,880 I have this nagging thought that he still might be better 551 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:48,800 deployed as an 8th or 9th inning guy. 552 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:50,960 Well, how do you feel about him overall? 553 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,080 I desperately want him to be. And honestly, I've been a little 554 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,080 critical of them for choosing him at kind of every turn. 555 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,000 I would have just given Ray that fifth rotation spot out of 556 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,560 spring training. But I think they were seeing 557 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,440 around corners a little bit having, you know, I probably 558 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,800 should have thought more about, well, what if Javier Assad has a 559 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:14,960 set back? Yeah. 560 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,320 And thought a little more about what if Justin Steele goes down 561 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,320 because they've been nursing that injury along for however 562 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,120 long. It's been a year and 1/2, right? 563 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,280 I think they were thinking along those lines and going, we're 564 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,200 going to need to keep everybody as stretched out as we can. 565 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,360 We know Ray can go to the pen, be the long man and stretch 566 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,760 right back out in the rotation if and when needed. 567 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:41,960 I think that's why they were doing all that. 568 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:47,560 But to me, I was saying Colin Ray's a better starter right now 569 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,680 than Ben Brown is. And unless Ben Brown's going to 570 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,240 magically show up one of these days with a third pitch he 571 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,240 actually cares about, I don't think he's he's going to work in 572 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,880 the rotation. It's now it is kind of working 573 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,720 in the rotation. So maybe I'll turn out to be 574 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,920 wrong. But it's it's like an every 575 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,880 other outing thing. And I don't know that the 576 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:15,760 fastball doesn't quite it, it plays under its velocity, you 577 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,280 know, it, it hums in and it looks good when it, when you 578 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,240 just see the radar gun number, but it doesn't look as good in 579 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,880 terms of how hitters are reacting to it. 580 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:31,760 And I, I would put them in the pen and I would say, give me two 581 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,720 more miles an hour on that. And it's going to be really 582 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,280 filthy. And the curveball is really 583 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,880 going to be devastating. And I'm not going to care if you 584 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,160 walk 11% of guys because it's only one time through the order 585 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,960 at most instead of two or three. But I think they were just 586 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,480 going. We got to get through a season 587 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,240 here. And now we've seen, you know, 588 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:57,320 Imanaga steal Hort, not Horton. Knock on wood, Javier Assad 589 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,640 down. I mean, that's why it makes 590 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,440 sense to have kept him here. But I do want to see what he can 591 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,240 do in the pen too. I think he's, he's been pretty 592 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,240 good, you know, but at the same time, I just feel like it's, I 593 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,480 felt like they wanted to just see, you know, just see what he 594 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:12,800 had. And but at the same time, I 595 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,080 just, I've always had this nagging suspicion that he's he's 596 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,480 better off as a reliever. You know who he absolutely 597 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,080 doesn't remind me of but also does is Rich Harden. 598 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:24,640 OK, there you go. He's. 599 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,120 He's like totally different body type. 600 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,320 Yeah, it's a curveball and Harden had the change up off the 601 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:35,040 heater, but it's that same like I am so frustrated by this guy 602 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,160 and how did he get to the end of an outing with dominant numbers? 603 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,760 And by the way, it's I feel like you just walk 6 people and 604 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,280 pitched in and out of traffic the whole time. 605 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,440 And then at the end of the thing it's five and a third one walk 606 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,160 and eight KS. Even when he has good nights, 607 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:55,840 I'm like, how did this happen? It felt so, so difficult. 608 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,760 Yeah, Even though the stuff is so good. 609 00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,280 But I don't know. That's a good cop. 610 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:00,880 Rich Harden was actually ahead of his time. 611 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,800 If he was, if he was pitching nowadays, he'd be money. 612 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,960 You know, 6 innings. That's like fuck, that's like 613 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,840 going. I mean, that's they just gave 614 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,320 Blake Snell $182 million for being. 615 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:12,040 Rich. Totally. 616 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,400 Yeah, Yeah, It was funny. I was talking about that earlier 617 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,840 today, actually. I was talking about Mark DeRosa, 618 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,160 who's become like a huge star for the MLB Network. 619 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,200 I, I used to be friendly with him, used to come into Joe's all 620 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,480 the time, Joe's Steakhouse in downtown Chicago. 621 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,280 And he, it was funny because like, you know, you think of 622 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,560 players don't get as excited about things as fans do. 623 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,200 But when they, when the Cubs got Harden, like Derosa and some 624 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,680 other players came in and, and Derosa was like, like, like a 625 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:43,840 fan, he was so excited. He's like, we got hardened. 626 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,800 He's like, let's go. And I was just like, wow, that 627 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,480 was, that was pretty funny. But yeah, no, Harden was, you 628 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,600 know, even when, when he was with the A's, I was always like 629 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,160 drooling over his stuff. But yeah, yeah, if you got 6 630 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,000 things 6 innings out of him, you're lucky. 631 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,360 And I loved him because he was always pitching well, but also, 632 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,400 I don't know, it was just a vibe. 633 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,000 It was very he always made me nervous. 634 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,679 Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like Palencia. 635 00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:15,719 It's like, you know, this stuff is just, you know, electric and 636 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,639 that just half the time you just don't know where it's going. 637 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,360 Palencia is funny because the stuff is so good that you want 638 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,040 to just not feel nervous. Except you can see that he feels 639 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:27,719 nervous. Yeah. 640 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,159 That dude just wears it all on his, you know, his face. 641 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,360 He's pouring sweat half the time. 642 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:38,040 Yeah, I kind of love watching him pitch, but also it's that's 643 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,639 because he he's not really pitching in a high leverage spot 644 00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:42,239 yet. If he became like the Cubs 645 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:47,199 closer, it'd be a cardiac event for a lot of us, including 646 00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:50,400 possibly him. Yeah, flashes of Carlos marble. 647 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,239 Well, you know, the one thing I will say, though, is like third 648 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,120 base. I wasn't too worried about it, 649 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,400 you know, because I figured, yeah, you know, it's Shaw will 650 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,400 hold it down for a little bit, but he didn't. 651 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,080 Now it's become a little bit of a black hole. 652 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,080 Do you think they have to dress it with some type of veteran or 653 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,280 do you think that Shaw might come up later in the year and 654 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,840 still give it a? Yeah, At this point, I'm kind of 655 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:20,720 medium term pessimistic on Shaw. It hasn't gotten a lot better at 656 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:23,720 Iowa. There's this, it's, it's a lot 657 00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:25,880 of moving parts. It's that big leg kick. 658 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,880 You know, we all saw that and they all, they assured us that 659 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,760 it wasn't going to be a problem. And then it pretty clearly was. 660 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,800 I think there is a an extent where you're striding too much 661 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,680 and you're losing bat speed because you're just going too 662 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,240 far this way. You're not able to rotate 663 00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:46,240 enough. He didn't put up a single 664 00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:49,000 impressive number during his time in the big leagues and the 665 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,960 defense at third didn't look that good either. 666 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,920 I don't. I wish John Birdie would just 667 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,600 look a little more comfortable defensively there because I can 668 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,560 live. John Birdie is your 9 hitter. 669 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:05,080 It's not a problem, right? Except John Birdie clearly is 670 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,120 way more comfortable playing second base defensively. 671 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:15,040 A year ago, even before his thumb thing, I would have said 672 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,680 let's try Nico Horner at 3rd. I don't think he has the arm for 673 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,880 that now. So they may have to go outside 674 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:27,720 the org, which I'm sure they do not want to do, but it's there's 675 00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:30,520 not a great solution here right now. 676 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,120 And that's why they held on to gauge workmen for so long, 677 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,080 because they could kind of see these problems burbling up too. 678 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,960 I don't know. They, they probably rushed Shaw 679 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,040 a little bit and they're going to pay a little bit of a price 680 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,440 for that. Yeah, that's the one where I 681 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,200 don't have a great answer, and unfortunately they don't either. 682 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,120 The good news is it's one spot. You kind of bury it at the 683 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,960 bottom of the line up. You, if you can find anybody who 684 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,400 handles it consistently well defensively, you just run them 685 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:05,080 out there and almost treat it like a pitcher spot, which is a 686 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,960 bummer to do, but it's better than having a guy out there 687 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,240 who's not that great offensively and really shaky with the glove. 688 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,840 Yeah, no, I agree with that. And I thought that catcher would 689 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,800 be that position where they'd have to kind of punt the 690 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,160 offense, but the catching positions actually been pretty 691 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,440 productive. So maybe they just go get a a 692 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,560 solid their basement on the market somewhere. 693 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,160 But at the same time, yeah, if they would have signed Bregman, 694 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,240 I've said it once, I'll say 100 times, they I probably don't 695 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:34,520 think they'd be able to afford to go get a starting pitcher, 696 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,520 which again, might not be possible anyway. 697 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,280 So we'll see. And look, I mean it. 698 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,080 It certainly would have tied their hands more. 699 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,600 Maybe you could have rolled the dice on some controllable 700 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,440 pitcher in like, a challenge trade. 701 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,360 We'll give you Owen Casey or Moises by Esteros. 702 00:37:55,360 --> 00:38:00,160 Even for your controllable guy who's not fully established yet, 703 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,840 you know, you're not going to get a controllable #3 you're 704 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:07,240 going to get a controllable somebody's number six or their 705 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:11,120 number four, and you're hoping that you can tweak them and 706 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,840 bring them up a level. Yeah, but yeah, that that'd be 707 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,360 uncomfortable. And I'm sure that they are happy 708 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,160 that they at least have some flexibility to add salary in 709 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,240 here. But also imagine this line up, 710 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,120 the way PCA is gone this year, the way Suzuki's hitting, 711 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,120 imagine it with Bregman and you really stop worrying about 712 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:37,360 pitching in a damn hurry. It gets everything just gets so 713 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:42,360 much less stressful if you're scoring that extra 2/3 of a run 714 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,360 a game or something, so. Yeah, it's just that that old 715 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,400 school baseball fan of me just so worries, worries about the 716 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,720 pitching. Now I just just need one more 717 00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:53,200 guy, whether it's in the pen or the the rotation. 718 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,240 All right, so last thing I'll ask you is that who do you think 719 00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:59,240 the teams are going to ask for when it comes down to this 720 00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:02,720 stuff? It's good. 721 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,760 It's probably, I mean, I'm sure that they'll get requests about 722 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,240 by esteros. They've got to hope that some of 723 00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:14,280 their sort of mid tier of prospects have a good stretch 724 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:19,400 here just because I think they'd like to trade, not like to. 725 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,920 They're not like desperate to get rid of Owen Casey or Kevin 726 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,280 Alcantra. But right now those guys stocks 727 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,160 have nose down a little bit. Just Casey's been in AAA a long 728 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,920 time now, man, and he's still striking out a ton. 729 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,520 So I think teams are losing some faith there, which is a bummer. 730 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,160 You don't want to miss your window to get something out of a 731 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,440 guy unless you view them as a long term peace. 732 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,120 So those that collection of hitters at AAA is going to be 733 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,600 the first thing people ask about because anytime you got a 734 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,120 collection of promising hitters at AAA, they're going to ask 735 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,160 about them. Jackson Wiggins is in South 736 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,200 Bend, I think, and that's an arm that the Cubs won't want to give 737 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,200 up. But if you want the kind like a 738 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,720 difference making pitcher at this deadline. 739 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,280 They're going to ask about Jackson Wiggins, they're going 740 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,080 to ask about Jefferson Rojas, the shortstop down there. 741 00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:15,760 And I think you got to listen with an open mind, not be 742 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,200 willing to throw them at at any old thing. 743 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,200 But if you get a, you know, if you're shopping in the really 744 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,960 deep end, if if the guardians fall off and they're open to 745 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,160 moving Emmanuel Class A, if Mason Miller's on the market, if 746 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,600 you know, Pablo Lopez does end up being available. 747 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,720 Yeah, you're going to have to at least hear those names and not 748 00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:43,440 automatically hang up the phone. You get too close for my comfort 749 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,520 to like an all in situation at that point. 750 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:51,160 Because those guys who are in high A AA, they're they need to 751 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,600 be the next wave. But I'm not sure that that's a 752 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,040 really robust next wave right now anyway. 753 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,840 So maybe the move is to strengthen this team, have that 754 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,640 three-year window and hope that you're scouting and player dev, 755 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,320 which you've poured so many resources into the last few 756 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,840 years. We'll just rebuild that 757 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,440 naturally that you can stop making these trades like the one 758 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:18,440 for parades, which begot, the one for Tucker, you know, the 759 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,560 one that sent away Zaire Hope and Jackson Farris for Michael 760 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,440 Bush. Those were all good trades. 761 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,280 They've made the, you know, Michael Bush and Kyle Tucker are 762 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,360 really, really good players. Also thinned out the Cubs farm 763 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,120 system. You want to stop having to make 764 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:37,880 those deals, but you could make one more this summer to firm up 765 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,560 a team that's headed to the playoffs, especially if that 766 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:45,000 player has some team control attached through 20/26/27. 767 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:46,320 Yeah. All right. 768 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,240 All right. Thanks, Matthew. 769 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,080 Thank you. Appreciate it. 770 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:52,160 Talk to you soon.