Ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats.
The show's about to begin. Lauren, let's put on a show.
Let's go. Welcome back to another episode
of Golden Nuggets with me, your host Sylvia Eldarwie, where we
go behind the scenes with some of the movers and shakers in the
real estate industry. And today, I'm joined by someone
who you want on your side once the deal is done.
Welcome Lauren Haddy, who's the founder and CEO of Chartered
Conveyancing. And she's going to tell us about
why you need professional conveyancing when you need it
and also some juicy stories along the way, hopefully.
Let's get into it. So Lauren, let's start with your
background story. What brought you to Dubai?
How did you get into conveyancing?
Talk us through it. So I've been here for 15 years
now. So I moved back.
I had an insurance job at the time, moved over with my
company. Then I got an opportunity at one
of the big or spas real estates do conveyancing in house
completely junior. I went in, learnt, learnt the
ropes, went from there. So I learnt from Heather, who's
well regarded, still still around now.
And yes, been a good few years there learning, like I say,
doing everything, getting the deals across the line.
As you've mentioned, dealing with lots of headaches.
We were back in the land department in dearer then.
So a lot of running up and down Shakeside Road and doing all the
fun stuff that comes with conveyancing.
I then set up Ascot and Co with my now husband.
We ran that for a few years. On the side of that, I decided
to set up conveyancing as a separate entity.
By then, obviously I'd got a few years under my belt, understood
the the do's and the don'ts and and the benefits of having
someone independent. We did that.
We sold Ascot, I then had a couple of children.
I took a few years out. I didn't want to go back full
time. So I went to work for Mina
mortgages. So I did a bit of mortgage
progression just part time around the babies and then
eventually came back to the conveyancing and met my now
business partner Andy. And we thought that let's give
it a go, push it forward and, and here we are now two years on
and. An all rounder then.
So you've dabbled. In yeah, agree, yeah.
Conveyancing, mortgages, all of it.
So tell us exactly what what? What is conveyancing and what's
the difference between conveyancing and sales
progression? Or is it just a fancy term for
sales progression? So in Dubai is very, very
similar. There's not too much different
really. Obviously around the world,
conveyancing is known as as a legal profession.
It's, it's acted through law firms.
It's a legal profession in Dubai.
Sales progression and conveyancing are very, very hand
in hand. The main difference is just that
conveyancers are independent, whereas sales progression are in
house with the real estate companies.
Got it both. Both job roles entail getting
the property from signing that form F and getting the deal
agreed to, getting it across the line.
So dealing with developers, banks, the courts, you know
whoever's needed to get the paperwork in place to get it
done. And the conveyancers or
solicitors, Property solicitors are hated in the UK because
they're seen as the reason why deals might take so long to
cross the line. And the process in the UK can
take up to 1218 weeks. But nobody represents themselves
or is represented by an agent in the UK.
It's all done by lawyers. I'm purely down to the sheer
value of what's being transacted.
So what would you say to people who think they can do it by
themselves or their agent can do it?
They don't need anyone in their in their quarter.
So it is quite a different process to the UK.
There's a lot more hands on requirements in Dubai.
So like I said before, going up and down Shakesover, we
physically have to be in the developers offices, in the
trustee offices with the banks chasing out papers.
So there's a lot of time involved.
The biggest, biggest thing that people will save both agents and
clients is, is their time. So they're essentially, they pay
us for that. There's also, as everybody knows
in Dubai, there's a lot of red tape, there's a lot of jumping
through hoops that you didn't even know were there in the 1st
place. So again, because I've been
doing it a long time, because the team are very well
experienced, they transfer, you know, many, many deals a month.
We've got relationships with all of those people, like I said,
the developers, land department, etcetera.
So if we don't know the answer, which is unlikely, we know
exactly who to go to to get the job done.
So again, it gets that deal done a lot quicker, a lot smoother
than we're using it on your own with an agent, for example, a
lot of the agents out there extremely good, you know,
extremely experienced, know what they're doing.
However they maybe transfer one or two deals a month, just, you
know, that's the nature they're out viewing that they're onto
the next property. And I'd say we're probably doing
4050 + a month. So that experience and that
exposure to all these different problems and, and hurdles is
there and, and like I said, then we've got the answers to help.
Them through it. So you are the problem solvers
basically. 100% yes. I mean, I mean ideally most
deals will just go through through seamlessly.
I would say maybe 10% of deals go through seamlessly.
Yeah, there are. The systems here are amazing and
and it's come on a long way. There's so many improvements,
you know, not digital, yeah, everything is electronic cetera.
And that's great if it all works as it should, but it doesn't
always work as it should. And then it's a case of who do
you go to? Where do we go?
What what's going to happen now? How do we get around this?
And that's, that's what we coming.
It's sort of I sort of say it's like an insurance if you like
you're going to pay us, you don't want to use us.
You hope that it's smooth and it it's fine, but the chances are
yeah, we're going to need someone there holding your hand
if. It's not something that AI is
likely to replace then. Is I'm having problems with AI
at the moment because ChatGPT is telling clients a lot of
misinformation. So yeah, I've had a few
disagreements, should we say, with clients where I've had to,
you know, prove why that's wrong and and what's the correct way
of doing things. So.
What was ChatGPT falsifying? Legal advice.
Really. Yeah, it's OK.
Obviously it's collecting information from the Internet,
but the Internet, so many people have put different things on
there. It could be 10 years old.
Yeah, to buy so fast-paced. Things change within days here.
So it's our duty to kind of feed ChatGPT with the correct
information and start blogging and start putting information
out. Yeah, 100%.
And I'm sure that's going to improve over time.
But yeah, it's always important to have someone on the ground
who knows. And Speaking of time, you've
been doing it since 2011, so 14, 14 years.
And we're a fast moving industry especially like I don't think
the process has changed at all in the UK in the last 1420
years. How many changes have you seen
since and how have they affected what you do?
Some of the some are good, some are great, some are.
Yeah, I'd, I'd say most are positive.
I think there's still a lot of changes to be made.
I think there's still a lot of improvements we can can achieve.
But yes, certainly that time like I said my mention, we used
to be down in Deira at the the mainland department there still
a few conveyances now we used to battle over the office, you
know, put our papers on top of each other's and fight to get
in. It was like a cattle market.
It was chaos. And I would carry around big
bags of files with with all these original documents that
needed. Probably in Arabic.
In Arabic. Yeah, exactly.
If you lost your original title deeds, you'd have to advertise
in the Gulf News that it was, you know, all these procedures
like that, they've now slowly gone away, which is, which is
great. It speeds up the process.
The digital title deeds make it a lot smoother, more streamline.
So yeah, most of it I would say is, is digital changes, which is
great. There's also a few procedure
changes they've bought in the blocking process of the years
which helps protect buyers who are paying off sellers mortgages
in advance, which is something that doesn't happen in the UK
so. So what was life like before
that? How risky was it?
Very risky, yeah. So, so you use an example, I had
a client they bought in Jamir Islands at the time, I think
it's 15,000,000. So back again, back in 2011, it
was a big, big ticket property. The mortgage was maybe
14,000,000. We paid it off.
We then waited for the clearance documents from the sellers bank,
which is the process. So two weeks later, the
clearance documents didn't come. The bank then told us.
Then after, well, actually there's three court cases
against this property. We went to the land department.
They said yeah, OK, we've now found it as well.
But they're not it wasn't automatically linked, sorry.
So it, we found it later. So obviously this buyer had
already put down 14,000,000. We then spent maybe a good 6 to
8 weeks working on Edge. On Edge.
Yeah. I didn't sleep that whole time
to get those court cases cleared.
Luckily there was, it was under a million.
We managed to manoeuvre it and, and it was fine.
But the seller went missing for a while.
There was a, you know, at the time the buyer thought he'd lost
that money. It was, yeah.
So now you've got blocking. Just explain what?
Yes, now we, we will get, still get the paperwork, we'll get the
NOC before we'll get the liability letter from the
sellers bank, which explains how much is outstanding.
And we can go to the land department at that point,
declare everything, show the the form F, get all the documents
logged and then the land department will check on their
system. Yet there's nothing else
blocking the system blocking the property.
Sorry, we'll block it. You go and clear the loan and
then bring the clearance documents back.
So in that time there's a yeah, about a two week period.
It's it's still owned by the the seller, but it can't go to
anybody else. It can't have any other blocks
put on it anything else against it.
So the buyer is safe. And digital signatures, that's
another thing. Yeah, it's all done with your
Emirates ID, so fingerprints there or they can give a remote
power of attorney as well. Remote power of attorney and
remote tenant evictions as well you can do.
Now, yeah, we can do that as well now.
So, yeah, a lot. Though again, all those digital
changes means that overseas clients, it's a lot easier for
them. There's there's less hassle of
having to fly in for various appointments or stay for long
periods of time. They can just do a video call
from where they are and get that.
And get it done. Yeah.
And and that's the other thing change that you've probably seen
since 20, 11 is golden visas. Yeah, rise of international
buyers. Yeah, I mean, I, I've always
primarily worked with international buyers, I'd say
because conveyancing is known again overseas as a more more
renowned industry. So yeah, that's, that's always
been around. But yeah, there's more a variety
of nationalities coming in now. Yeah, you have crypto buyers,
you have. Crypto Bros.
Crypto Bros Yeah. What?
The kind of changes or the evolution?
To the buyers, yeah, yeah, Obviously just the quantity as
well, the amount of buyers that are in, the amount of deals we
are dealing with, the amount of brokers that are out there.
There's so many small, small entities, people pop up on their
own, set up on their own, which is great for us.
They need need someone like like us to step in and help.
But yeah, I would say that's how it's evolved.
It's a, it always surprise, always been fast-paced, but it
feels like it's getting faster as well.
Everyone's impatient, want things done, wants things done
quickly. Yesterday, yeah.
And Speaking of those foreign investors, what should be on
every foreign investors checklist when they're buying in
Dubai? So, so the main things really is
as I mentioned, are they going to come into the country to
complete or will they give power of attorney?
A lot of overseas investors don't realise that you have to
be here in person. So that's a big one to to factor
in either those costs for a power of attorney or or the time
scales to be here. Also moving funds is is a
massive 1. So with the new sort of a AMLKYC
etcetera, cheques in Dubai, money can take longer to come
over. There are registered escrow
companies here that can help or they can have a bank account set
up here. But if they're going to set one
up, that takes time. Again, it's just all those
factors of of making sure they know what they need to do to get
it in place before before we get to that transfer.
And you can act as power of attorney.
We can act as power of attorney, yet we we actually recommend it.
It shouldn't be done by the brokers.
I know there's a lot of brokers that that do do it, but the Land
Department states that it should be done by a, a third party or
an outside party not related to the contract.
So we can take that. How they all getting away with
it then? I think they all cancel the form
FS at the transfer, which isn't ideal for either for them to
protect their commissions or for the buy or seller.
If there's any problems at the transfer it they're no longer in
contract so it's it's not something we advise.
Risky business. Then do not act as power of
attorney if you're involved in the transaction.
Yeah. And again, it's a minimal cost,
especially for an overseas buyer.
It's cheaper than them flying, you know, paying for a flight at
a hotel, etcetera. So it's to protect them and make
sure it's all done properly. It's it's worth it.
OK. Anything else for an investor
should know? Just the timing again, I think
agents are very obviously naturally they want to sell,
they're very quick to give the shortest time frame possible.
And whilst, yeah, some cash to cash deals we can do in a day,
maybe that's very, very small amount.
And, and there's a lot of sort of, as I said before, hurdles to
go through. And it's just making sure
they're aware that these are going to take time and, and to
trust their convenience or their agent while they're here.
Well. Let's talk about time scales,
because as you mentioned, you've got cash to cash, which should
be quite quick. You've got four different
scenarios, I'm guessing. I would probably put that to
6:00 just because you have off off plan sales as well.
OK. So I'll I'll go from also, yes.
So cash to cash is your quickest, not always just
smoothest, but should be. Yeah, essentially we can do it
in one to two days depending on the developer.
You get an NOC from the developer and then you go to
transfer. OK, super easy.
Yeah, as long as money's here, etcetera, that's that's all good
to go. You have mortgage buyers, cash
sellers, again, depending on the bank or mortgage buyers side,
sorry, it can be, they should always have their pre approval
before they sign their form F. So if as long as they've got pre
approval, we can do the valuation in a week, get the
final offer letter and then transfer.
So again, depending on the bank, maybe two to four weeks on the
turnarounds. When you have a mortgage on the
seller's side, it becomes longer.
So you have, I would say both cash buyers and mortgage buyers
a similar time frame, maybe 8 to 10 weeks.
Some banks maybe stretch that out to 12 weeks.
There's so many variants to to go into and then you have off
plan sales now. So a lot of properties have been
completed, but they had post handover payment plans.
So on those there's a slightly different procedure either with
cash buyers having to put down post dated cheques for the
payment plan with the developer or mortgages, sorry, banks
paying off the payment plan with the mortgage amount.
And there's a lot of laying around that they're a little bit
trickier and making sure the right money is going to the.
Right person. Do you charge the same amount
for cash to cash, mortgage to mortgage?
Or cash to cash we do a slightly cheaper great, but if there's a
mortgage involved we always charge the same and.
When you get one on your desk and it's mortgage to mortgage,
you're like, oh. No, they're the most common, to
be honest. Again, because we deal with the
banks. It's fine.
We've got some good friends. Got different, yeah, got some
connections. If we've got a really big
problem, we can call someone up and plead and beg and get things
through. It's most of the people who use
us. I would say the majority are end
users. So they're going to buy with the
mortgage. So that's it's very common.
So one thing that I'm a little bit curious about that I, you
know, I know how it works in the UK and I'm assuming it's going
to work the same here eventually, but we're now at
that level of maturity that we should start talking about it is
remaining years on leasehold properties.
So in the UK, typically you buy something with a 99 year lease,
Great. Once that gets down to 80 years
and below, it actually makes it harder to mortgage, hard to
sell, it reduces the value of the property.
Now Dubai has been selling leasehold for since when 2000
and yeah, 1520 years, 20 years, yeah.
So we must be at that stage where some leasehold properties
do have 80 years remaining on the lease.
And it's quite common in the UK to have leasehold extensions
because just for everyone who doesn't know, at the end of that
99 years, it's supposed to go back to the freeholder.
Ownership of that property goes back to the freeholder.
It doesn't get passed down to generation.
You know, your, your, your heirs.
So we need to start thinking about that.
Is there anything in place or are you hearing any talks?
About there's a lot of talk, there's always been a lot of
talks, especially in the areas such as green community.
There are areas like Silicon Oasis now JLF where you can
apply to the land department to convert it into freehold.
You, you get valuation of the property, you can pay a
percentage and and convert it. So there's definitely changes
that have been put in place with areas such as green community
that hasn't been implemented yet.
And there is no concrete answer on what will happen.
Obviously, the theory is that that will follow those footsteps
of silicon waste and they'll have the chance to buy the
freehold or as you say, it will go down to, yeah, the UK
policies and extend the lease. But yeah, as of now, it's not.
We keep our eye on it and they're listening and speaking
to the right people. But as of now, they haven't got
that. Decision yet?
Well, if you hear anything, let us know.
Watch it. Yeah, we're all maturing
together. OK, let's talk about form F
Fails. So form F, well, everyone has
their own abbreviation for it, but let's assume it's form
finalised Deal. Yeah, not the other F word.
But let's talk about some form F fails.
What are the most common mistakes you're seeing?
Like what? When you're when you're getting
a form F in front of you, what are you looking for and
thinking? Oh my God, I can't.
Believe so, yeah. We jump straight to the special
conditions. That's so we have to, you know,
scan through them, make sure see what's in there.
The biggest problems for us is tenancies.
So where the agents have, should we say, skimmed over the, the
rules of the tenancy or not informed the buyer.
So for anyone who doesn't know, so any tenant here, they're to
evict them, you need to give 12 months notice for one of three
reasons. As a, a new buyer, sometimes
they think that doesn't apply and they can just kick the
tenant out. Or more often than not, we, we
get a form of saying the seller has said they'll tell the tenant
to leave or they'll evict the tenant.
And then when we speak to the seller, they'll, I didn't agree
that or you know, that wasn't done or the tenant actually
he's, we've agreed A2 year leave.
I don't know, you know, all these things come up and it
hasn't been looked into properly, essentially.
So that is our biggest headache because as a buyer to protect
the buyer, if they don't know those laws and they think,
right, we're going to buy this property and then we're going to
move in, in three months, they're going to have a shock
because obviously that's not the case.
So that's our biggest one is make sure everyone knows what's
happening with the tenancy and and knows that the security
deposit's going to be handed over the documents there,
etcetera. I would say timelines are also
our biggest one of our biggest problems.
Again, as mentioned earlier, agents love to get what they
want to get the deal done and don't blame them.
They want to get their Commission in and it's all good.
But putting a three-week Form F transfer date on a mortgage to
mortgage deal, it's just not going to happen.
And then obviously we have problems with the clients who've
again accounted for that money to go to the next purchase or
you know, things like that. So chains are becoming more
common now. When I first started, it was
never really around. People just bought one, waited
for the money and then so sorry, sold one and then bought the
next one. Whereas now it's, yeah, it's
very common. We've got maybe I don't know, 6
or 7 deals at the moment which are in a chain of three or four.
And and yeah, it's managing those timings going through.
And in the UK we used to see chains like 6-6 properties deep
just to explain what a chain is. So it's when well at the bottom
of the chain you'll have a first time buyer likely.
Or a cash buyer. Cash buyer.
Someone nice and easy at the bottom, yeah.
And then the next person needs to sell that property to
facilitate their ongoing purchase, as does the next
person, as does the next person. So if that chain collapses,
which is something that we're quite used to in the UK, like
one person, one goes wrong, it just ruins the whole whole
chain. So we're now seeing that here.
Yeah, I'm seeing a lot more. And what I would say it's not so
much that it collapses. I'd say it's quite a small
percentage of deals that don't go through.
But what happens is the first one is delayed.
So somewhat the the cash buyer, his funds were delayed coming in
from, I don't know, overseas. So therefore that added two or
three weeks onto that. So then by the time you get to
the end of that chain, you're maybe 6-7, eight weeks out, and
that's a big difference again for people.
So even more so when you're in a chain, make sure that your dates
account for or your deadlines account for everybody else in
the chain. Yeah, exactly.
I I would say just as a bit of advice for any any buyers or
sellers is always add on a couple of weeks to whatever your
agent tells you anyway just for that security of and Peace of
Mind. Things do take longer than than
we like in to buy sometimes. So better to be done and
finished early then panicking. Yeah.
And from your experience, what's the top reason?
What that causes most deals to fall apart at?
The same I, I'd say the percentage is small for deals
that actually do fall apart. Again, being problem solvers,
there is always a way there's there's some some negotiation or
some loophole, something we can do to, to get it through.
I'd say 9 times out of 10, the biggest thing would be would be
timing. So banks are are a big problem
at the moment. They take making a lot longer
than they used to and therefore than that we expect and adding
2-3 weeks onto a you know, a wait period for a final offer
letter. The seller gets put up, the
markets moving up, he wants more money.
Cash buyer comes along. Cash buyer comes along and and
then you cut your mortgage buyer can't match that money.
You know, they're they're offer doesn't allow it.
So that would probably be the biggest, yeah.
Biggest are you? Are you seeing a lot of
gazumping going on? Not loads.
Again with the Unified Form FS. That was a great improvement, I
think because it really does look lock sellers in and they
it, it physically puts a block on their property so they can't
sign another form F for someone else.
So that's a massive help for security.
But there's definitely a lot of discussions.
So yeah, if you reach that point where the form F is near
expiring, the seller will ask and and he has that opportunity
to to negotiate. Yeah.
And most people might think you don't really necessarily need a
conveyance. So when it comes to off plan
property, is that correct or would?
You yeah, if you're buying from the developer, then yeah,
there's no real need. It's, it's a very streamlined
process. There's the, the escrow accounts
are set up with the land department fully legalized.
So no, the, the sales and purchase agreements are very
black and white. That's it.
You can't really change much anyway.
So no. But if it's secondary, as I
mentioned before, then yes, because there's a lot of back
and forth with the developer for those.
So when it comes to off plan, there's two types of delays.
You've got delays on handover, but you've also got people that
delay making their payments or are unable to make their
payments. Yeah.
What happens in this scenario? Yeah, I think a lot of people
who buy off plan have it in their head that they're going to
make a payment, you know, make the first payment and then sell
it before it gets to the next stage.
Which is what they've been promised by a lot of agents.
Exactly, yeah. And by the time it gets to that,
they then sell it. But that next payment is now
overdue with the developers, most of the big developers, you
have to pay that off before you transfer the property.
So again, having a conveyancer involved means we can make sure
there's enough safety precautions put in place. 9
times out of 10, the buyer will pay that off on behalf of the
seller. It's all about communication,
making sure they know they're paying in advance.
But like I said, we'll, we'll speak to the developer, get the
right provisions put in place, get security checks, etcetera.
But they can be quite sticky situation, OK, I suppose again
going back to the question you asked about the agents, that's
the bit of a red flag if the agents haven't brought that up
with the buyer and then suddenly they're being asked to pay money
ahead of when they thought that can cause.
Issue. OK, All right, let's talk about
something a bit more positive now.
Gifting. Property gifting.
Yes, gifting these days. Yeah, we do.
We get quite a few gifting enquiries.
So gifting is where but you give give the property.
You give it as a gift, which obviously everyone would love
to. Who's doing that?
There's only a a few people you can do it to.
So husband to wife or vice versa or directly up or down in your
family. So it's not your mother, father,
or you can do it to your your children.
OK. The only exception to that is
you can gift to a company if you are the sole show.
How so? If you have the title in your
name completely and you own that company completely, you can move
it from one to the other. So for tax reasons, a lot of
people. So what is that little hack?
So if you own a company and you are the 100% shareholder, you
can gift the property from your name into that company name,
which we're finding a lot of people are doing now for tax
reasons. They set up SPVS or companies,
put the property in the company name and it.
Is that to to not avoid reduce tax in their home countries?
Yeah, it means. But doesn't that expose them to
corporate tax here? Again, I'd need to speak to a
full company expert, but no, there there is Let's.
Get a tax expert. And then that could be the next
one. But there's, there's different
ways. But yeah, there's there's
something called an SPB, a special.
Purpose Vehicle. Yeah.
And yeah, that it helps with those.
Matters. OK, right.
So gifting up or down? Yes, yes.
Or sideways to. Not sideways.
You can't give to a brother or sister.
OK, only has mother. Father or children OK, but
they're the main reason being is you save the 4% transfer fees
instead of paying that it's naughty .125% of the property
value. So it's a a significant
difference. So could that be something to
consider if you're getting older rather than?
Yet yeah, to avoid the inheritance again probate here
is is a quite a headache in a long process.
So it could be for those reasons.
Again, some people do it for tax reasons just to move it out of
their name. OK, and well, let's talk about
inheritance. How?
How complicated is it? It's complicated.
Yeah, Yeah. Depends on what religion you are
as well it. Depends.
There's yeah, again, there's so many factors, but yeah,
essentially if if you die, your property will go to your airs.
If you have a will in place, it can be more straightforward, if
not various. We tend to see by the time it
comes to us, we see a property either with someone who's passed
away on the title deed and then we have to go through that or
it's already gone through the probate session and we've got 10
names on that title deed where it's gone to the children there,
brothers or sisters, whoever. So obviously you can't sell a
property if it's a disease person or the title deed,
although technically with the form, if someone could accept
the, the signature, we, we can't get any further than that.
So we have to go through that takes maybe 3 to 9 months most
times. I would say they have to get the
the other courts will will decide who it goes to and then
that new title deed is issued. 9 times out of 10, the title deed
is then in a miner's name, which then causes another layer of
paperwork. And miners here are under 21.
Under. 21 not yet under 18, no. So yeah, under 21, so miners can
sell the property, that's fine. They again, they will have
either another parent or a responsible adult looking after
them. But to sell it has to go through
the Dubai family courts as well, right?
So the courts will protect their money and make sure that it's
not a distressed sale, not not sold undervalue.
So for that we have to get a letter of execution from the
courts before we can then get to, to the the normal transfer
process. So again, you're looking at
maybe an extra 8 to 10 weeks on on a property transaction for
any minor. So for an expat buying over
here, would you recommend they all get wills done?
A. 100% yeah. Any.
With or without a mortgage. With or without a mortgage,
yeah, 100% because you've got an asset here and you want to want
to make sure it goes to the right person.
Again, there's some great wills companies that that give good
advice and go through it, but it's, it's inexpensive in the
grand scheme of things. It can be done quite quickly.
It's definitely worth doing. So I think that again, in the
UK, that's like a prerequisite. Yeah, and it's something people
talk about in the UKI think without worrying, whereas here
it's a bit of A to be subject, but no, it's massively
important. OK, and what about divorce?
Any divorces? Yeah, we get a lot of divorce
cases, obviously. Yeah, sadly, people do get
divorced. I don't think I've had an
amicable property sale when it's been a divorce.
I've had many cases where I've had to sit people in different
rooms. I've had to, you know, yeah,
move from one to the other. I've had people yelling at each
other in the land department. That was a fun one, yeah.
I mean. Because you need to get approval
from. Both, they're both owners of the
property. They both have to sign them
again the the property depending what share they have, usually
5050, they can get separate checks in 5050, but we have to,
to go through all that. So you're a bit of a therapist,
a bit of an agony aunt, and yeah.
And everything in between. Exactly.
And I suppose you're the one that has to break any tough
news. Yes to the agent or.
Yeah, You're, you're, you're. Yeah, yeah, tough news is part
of the job. Unfortunately, like I said,
things don't go to plan most of the time, so there's always
someone upset about something we're going to say.
But for me, the biggest, biggest part of this role is
communication. If you can pick up the phone and
speak to people, you know, you're a human being as well.
Yes, there might be anger, there might be stress, but we'll get
through it together. That's, you know, my motto and.
And yeah. And swallow the frog, as they
call it. Oh, I've not had that one.
Yeah, that's like, do it first thing in the morning.
Don't delay it. Oh yeah, for me say like you
mentioned, you could sit up all night wiring router, just do
that phone call and and get it out of the way and then you can
tackle the problem. Sorry to give you PTSD but what
was that one call you had to make that you were like Oh my
God how am I going to explain this one?
I've had a few. I'm being that, yeah, the deal
where I met my, my now business party, Andy, we worked on a deal
together. That's how how we met.
That was actually one of the hardest deals both of us have
ever done. I was on the buyer's side, he
was on the seller's side, and the buyers had a mortgage and
joint names. The wife worked for the UN, so
she was posted somewhere, then couldn't come back for six
weeks. She'd like just legally not
allowed to, to leave. We then had to change the
mortgage over to a single name. He had to travel, so we did some
manager's checks, but then he was granted, I think 70% rather
than an 80% mortgage. So there was a lot of calls in
that one, both to to my buyers with the bank and then also with
the seller breaking it to him. That was another week added,
another week added. Uncomfortable.
OK, And then let's talk about costs.
So what should clients or agents budget for when it comes to a
proper conveyancer? And what does that fee actually
cover? So conveyancer fee can range
because this, as I've mentioned before, so many different types,
but really anything between 2 to 3000 up to maybe 1012 thousand
is probably the maximum really that you should pay that will
cover everything that comes in between.
So as I mentioned, the agent will pass us all the the
documents once it's signed and agreed.
And we're there hands on every day up until the end point,
making sure, like I said, the developers are covered, make
sure all the service fees are paid, any chiller fees are paid,
mortgages outside, we can go and get the liability letters.
We're in the banks chasing if, if they haven't delivered on
time, making sure all the documents go to the trustee,
getting everything accurately checked, translated if we need
to. I mentioned companies earlier,
they can be a lot trickier. There's a lot more layers of
documents there. So we'll liaise with all of the
relevant authorities on that. And yeah, just making sure that
everything is done as smoothly and quickly as it can be,
essentially. So that's for you to do your
job. What can agents do to make your
job simpler? Come back to communication
again. The best agents to work with are
ones who want to know what's going on, but are happy and
trust us to to do what we can so we can have that level of
communication. We can work as good cop, bad cop
if we need to with a client. We're all on the same page,
singing. Yeah, singing the same hymns,
they say. Red flag for me is agents who
just Chuck the documents and run away.
They don't want anything to do with it.
I know they've they've paid for conveyancing service, but they
know the client. A lot of the times an agent has
worked for the client for maybe 3-4 months before we get the
deal. We're brand new.
They might know little things that help us break something,
you know, break some news to someone.
Or just balance it correctly really, I suppose.
OK, all right, So advice that you can give to agents who want
to level up their post sale process?
So work with good conveyancers, work with experienced
conveyancers who can help teach and guide along the way.
Don't, don't shy away from the from the conveyancing process.
Yes, trust your conveyancers and let them do the, the legwork,
but ask questions. Go to a transfer.
If you've never been to a lot of agents I've worked with who've
never been to a transfer, go and see see what happens.
It helps in the sales process. Ultimately, if you can explain
to someone what's going to happen next, it makes the whole
deal smoother. So.
Represent both parties in the transaction.
Yeah, we can here. Yeah, OK.
Yeah. And I actually find that easier
because then you've got everything and you can juggle
everyone together. Whereas when you've got we, we
work with other conveyancers and agents.
That's no problem, but they might not work in the same style
as us, or not as quickly as us. And so a lot of agents that are
going on, on secondary agents, let's say going on listing
appointments, how can they sell the conveyancing package to
their seller? Yeah.
So I would say to sell it from that point actually.
So as soon as you meet the client, they'll start asking
what fees do we need to pay? Add it in there.
So you gonna have your transfer fee, your trustee fee, your
conveyancing fee, drop it in there straight away.
Explain the difference of, you know, a convenience with someone
who's going to look after you afterwards.
They know the paperwork like the back of their hands and then
it's it's always dropped in along.
It's it's not. Again, a lot of agents will wait
right to the end and then sneak it in the form F And then of
course we're going to have problems because they think it's
an add on. They don't see the benefit.
I mentioned again earlier, sorry about insurance.
You sell it as an insurance policy.
You don't want to use them, but if you do need them, they're
there and call us as well if they need to.
If the client's unsure, they don't know who are.
Let's have a conversation with them.
A lot of clients like the fact that we're independent.
We don't work for the agency. We could be separate.
They, they have a conversation with us.
They, they know again, we're human beings.
We're people, we're nice people and we can sell ourselves to
them as well. So work, work with us and be a
team. So do you, do you work with
mostly boutique brokerages or have you got some big players
on? We do a bit of both actually.
So yeah, primarily boutique because they don't have in
house. So they they like having that
trusted partner to to work with. But we have also we do a lot of
overflow so big agencies have in house, but maybe some of their
in house go on holiday at the same time or someone's sick or
whatever and actually they've suddenly got 40 deals.
They don't know what to do well. I see like supply chain
teachers. Exactly.
Supply teachers. Exactly.
Yeah, supply chain teachers. So, yeah.
So we, we do that as well. We've also got some agents that
we've just known for a long time and got a good relationship
with. They may move companies and go
to a big one, but they still use us as they trust us and we've
built that rapport with them. So if if there was ever a year
where you'd have had had to step in as supply teachers, this year
isn't it? Yes.
This year has been a busy one, yeah.
And if someone's got their own, if they've got in house sales
progression and they're under pressure to sell that service,
you won't really feature, will you?
No, they they, yeah, they have their own, their own cost and
their own prices. But you might be like.
Yeah, like I say, I just for me having done both because I did
in house for for most of the beginning of my career.
I think independent is massively important for clients because
it's you have got someone truly looking after your interests in
house. Of course they want to get the
deal across the line, but they want to get the agency's
Commission across the line. That's their main priority.
Whereas for us, yes, it might be annoying, we might have to take
a few more boxes, but you know, it's done completely safely and,
and securely and, and we're there.
Brilliant. OK, we want some juicy stories
or funny stories from the transfer table.
Oh, OK. The biggest one I think was the
one I mentioned before. So I had, yeah, a divorced
couple who would not sit in the same room with each other.
He was actually quite nasty in the end and took a bigger
portion of the the fees. So there was a physical fight in
the land department. So that was.
No way that was. Interesting.
That was back in Dearest. So that was that was an
interesting one. What else have I got?
They're not particularly juicy because it's people's lives.
Yeah, you're dealing with it. Yeah.
There's a lot of fights over money.
A lot of people can get very emotional when they're buying or
selling property. So yeah, we we definitely have
to deal with a lot of tears, tantrums.
You're probably just used to it. It's.
Probably it is. It's.
Yeah, it's. Probably juicy stories to
everybody else, but yeah, it's just like another day in the
office. Exactly.
Do you think it's quite bland like property management?
No, I, I think the reason I've stuck at it for so long is
because it is different every day.
It's different. Every client is different, who
you're dealing with. They've come from completely
different walks of life. They've got their money
different ways. So yeah, it's it's interesting,
really. And tell us about a deal that
you saved from collapse. Every day.
Every. Day.
That's what I do. But yeah, but it is that's,
that's every day. Every day there is something on
a deal that is someone is arguing over or someone is
threatening to get a lawyer involved or yeah, or not go to
an appointment. So that becomes a day-to-day
thing for us, really. And do you think that you
probably save more deals than and of course, you probably save
more deals than an agent could? Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair
to say because we're dealing with a lot more deals than an
agent is. But I would say, I'd say the
majority of deals aren't on the verge of collapse all the time.
Even if people are fighting, like I mentioned before, there
is always a way there's you need to understand what their motive
is, what they're, what they're actually upset about and then
you can tackle it. And I think again, the majority
of cases both buyer and seller wanted to go through.
That's why they signed the Form F in the 1st place.
We deal with a lot of emotional management, shall I say.
What is it? The three things in life, Death,
divorce and buying and selling house.
It's the most stressful. So we're dealing with hundreds
of people every day who are doing that.
And that, yeah, comes with a, like I mentioned, a lot of
tantrums and tears. So we have to be sort of
everyone's counsellor and. So how do you manage to stay
sane during all of this? Yeah, I'm quite a patient
person. I've.
You need to be. Yeah, I've had a lot of practice
dealing with my husband over the years.
He's quite a difficult character.
I've got two small children. I think anyone will say the
same. If fighting fires left, right
and centre, yeah, it just becomes part of it.
Just deep breaths, yeah? Breathwork.
Yeah.
Interesting. OK.
And finally, what do you wish agents knew about conveyancing,
sellers knew about conveyancing, and buyers knew about
conveyancing? Agents, just that we're on your
side. We're not the enemy.
We're not trying to find fault. We want the deal to go through.
We want to close it. We just want everyone to be safe
and, and secure buyers and sellers the same.
But it's just that we're there to help.
Sorry, not to hinder. We're there to to do things
smoothing and efficiently and, and to trust us.
Really just know. I know again, there's a lot of
information out there. People think they know better,
but just let us do what we can do.
And do not ask ChatGPT Yes. Exactly.
Yeah, please just ask. I don't mind if you ask another
conveyancer, but yeah, go to reliable sources to get your
information. Brilliant.
Well, there you have it, the woman that you need in your
corner once that deal has been done.
Thank you very much, Lauren, for educating us on.
Thank you. What goes on behind the scenes?
And yeah, next time we need some more juicy stories.
Get some. Yeah, I'll see what I can find.
So yeah, reach out to Lauren if you've got any queries or not
just any random queries. Yeah, Any queries?
Yeah. Any gold?
Yeah, Golden Bees is eviction notices, properties, anything
you need, property gifting, property gifting, dancing, just
any property questions. Okay, there you go.
I'll leave the details down below.
Thank you very much so much. Hope you enjoyed that episode.
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