1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:03,320 Ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats. 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,240 The show's about to begin. Jack, let's put on a show. 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:12,880 Yeah, let's do it. Welcome to another episode of 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,040 Golden Nuggets with Sylvia El Dawi. 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,280 And today I'm joined by Jack Sellers, who is the founder and 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:23,320 CEO of Yellow Value and is quietly built a platform that's 7 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,680 calling BS on overpriced listings and fake bargains. 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,600 Jack, welcome to the show. Thank you. 9 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:32,880 Tell us about yourself and what you're building. 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,000 Sure. So yeah, I'm Jack, founder of 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,360 Yellow Value. I grew up in the region in 12 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:46,120 Bahrain, moved back to the UK, spent some time there and then 13 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:52,160 moved here during COVID and had set some money aside to buy a 14 00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:56,320 flat. And I had a lot of agents 15 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,400 sending me properties and I had no way to sift through them. 16 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,760 And, you know, I didn't know the market. 17 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,400 So I built this tool for my, just to help myself because I'm 18 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,480 a coder. And yeah, it's just kind of 19 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,600 evolved from there. Sounds like a lot of effort to 20 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,920 to buy a property. I'm going to code something for 21 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,160 myself. Yeah, you're just you're, you're 22 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,280 a coder. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's just, 23 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,920 it's something that I wanted for yourself and I and I knew I 24 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,160 could build it. So yeah, I was just too 25 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,080 intrigued by the problem, I'd say. 26 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,000 And and that is a question I ask every prop tech is what problem 27 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,560 are you solving for? The problem is it's very 28 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:43,480 difficult for the average person to come up with a mental model 29 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,080 of how much something should be worth. 30 00:01:45,320 --> 00:01:47,920 We all have to do it when we're browsing through listings 31 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,280 subconsciously most of the time, but it isn't always obvious 32 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,800 based on all of the different factors that could influence the 33 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,080 price. If we're kind of focusing in on 34 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,400 one specific building or area and only looking at a very small 35 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:03,800 niche, then maybe we can do that. 36 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,840 But as soon as we broaden our search, it's very difficult for 37 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:11,360 us to continuously value things. And I think that's where you you 38 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,360 need machine learning models to, to do the heavy lifting for you. 39 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,720 Now the problem is is if you only ever look at sold prices, 40 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,000 then values would never increase or decrease. 41 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,240 If you're always going to base it on the last sale price. 42 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,480 What kind of algorithm do you use to work out what a property 43 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,400 is worth today? When I look at property prices, 44 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,240 I'm trying to make a prediction of the current market value. 45 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,400 I'm not trying to predict what's going to happen in the future. 46 00:02:40,920 --> 00:02:44,840 The current market value is obviously influenced by previous 47 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,160 market value, but by previous sale prices. 48 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,600 And you're right, if if we only looked at previous prices and 49 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,640 and never budged, then the market would never go up. 50 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,520 So if something is happening to cause those prices to go up over 51 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,480 time and that is the natural kind of buying and selling 52 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:04,960 activity that happens in the market. 53 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,720 So, so yeah, there are going to be times where, you know, an 54 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:13,280 asking price is a little bit higher than, you know, what a 55 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:18,000 valuation model might say. And over time those, you know, 56 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,280 slight increases will lead to a market that goes up over time 57 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,240 and that will be reflected in the previous prices. 58 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:28,000 So, yeah, I think over time, the more information that we are 59 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,160 able to incorporate into these models, the more they'll be able 60 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,880 to anticipate that rising market trend. 61 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,480 And there's also the challenge, and I've got this experience 62 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,960 from valuing properties back in the UK. 63 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:46,760 Every seller and every landlord has a reason why they believe 64 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:48,680 their property is better than everybody else's. 65 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,240 And I'm guilty of this as well. Like when I looked at the 66 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,600 valuation of my property based on recent sales on the street, I 67 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,200 was like, no, but mine's far superior because XYZ. 68 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:04,000 How do you kind of manage sellers and and landlords 69 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:08,840 expectations because they will always believe that theirs is 70 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,800 worth hundreds of thousands more because of oh mine has a better 71 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,760 view or mine has been upgraded. How do you factor in? 72 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,720 I suppose you can't really because you don't know the 73 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,680 property inside. You can just base it off the 74 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,520 square footage and. Well, I had an interesting chat 75 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,200 with an agent once. I asked him, would you rather? 76 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,040 I said would you rather represent a buyer that had 77 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,160 $1,000,000 to spend? Would you rather represent the 78 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,280 seller that had an apartment worth $1,000,000? 79 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,920 And he said assuming the buyer was serious, definitely the 80 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,640 buyer because we know what the value of the $1,000,000 is 81 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,360 $1,000,000. But the guy with the apartment 82 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,720 that's worth $1,000,000 probably thinks it's worth 1 1/2. 83 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,960 And the challenge is trying to get him to bring his, you know, 84 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,680 expectations down and tools like yellow value actors. 85 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,800 Yeah, kind of like a, a reality check for everyone who owns a 86 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,960 property. And I think the more, the more 87 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,000 information that we can lay out, the more credibility it will 88 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,520 give. So for example, with views, like 89 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,560 everyone asks about views and renovations, how can how can you 90 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,560 know if my property's got a good view? 91 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,640 Or how can you know if my property's been renovated? 92 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:29,800 Well, if we see that the previous sale prices of that 93 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:34,040 particular property deviate from what the model thinks it should 94 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:38,400 be, then we can infer that either it has a great view or 95 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,080 it's being renovated. And that is a challenge that you 96 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,560 know that I suppose that's the role of real estate agents is to 97 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,480 manage that gap between sellers expectations and buyers 98 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,160 expectations. So how can agents be using 99 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:57,200 yellow value on a daily basis? I think, yeah, like you said, to 100 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,440 bridge the gap and I've and I've had agents interested in it 101 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,040 because, yeah, you, you get buyers that are looking for a 102 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,640 bargain. But in, in reality, the way the 103 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:14,080 Dubai market is right now and you know, it, maybe it'll slow 104 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,440 down, maybe it is slowing down. But you know, for the last, 105 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,000 let's call it three years, there's not really been any 106 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,480 bargains really. You, you're going to get what 107 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,480 you pay for. You know, if, if you're buying, 108 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,480 if you're buying a good property, you, you should be 109 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,440 happy to get the asking price. You know if if the asking price 110 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,320 is, you know, reasonable. Can you walk us through the 111 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,960 yellow value platform? Sure. 112 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,560 So when you go on the home page, it's just a regular user, you 113 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,040 don't have an account, anything like that. 114 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,960 It's set up so that you can look up any location and either the 115 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,560 unit number or the number of bedrooms. 116 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,200 And you'll then be taken to a page that has all the 117 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:01,400 information that we have about that property, historical sales 118 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,160 prices for that building or project, and then what our 119 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,240 models think is the current value of that property along 120 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,440 with the confidence level. I like that the confidence level 121 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,840 because you've got like medium high confidence or low 122 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,520 confidence. Talk us through those three 123 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:18,880 different different confidence levels. 124 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:25,600 Yeah, you need it because, you know, even with humans, if, if I 125 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:31,200 was to say to you what is, you know, some, some particular 126 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,200 villa in Emirates Hillsworth, it's very, very difficult. 127 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,880 You know, that villa could be completely different to all of 128 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,120 its neighbors, could be completely renovated inside. 129 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,840 Imagine that problem, you know, for, for computers as well. 130 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:45,760 It's, it's, it's exactly the same problem. 131 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,800 Now I believe that over time these models will be able to 132 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,600 interpret the data provided we have good data provided We 133 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,400 continue to add to the our data sources that those models over 134 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,200 time will be able to come up with better and better 135 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,160 estimates. But yeah, it's it's still, it's 136 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,120 still very difficult. Another thing that I like about 137 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,760 your website is you don't make people into their e-mail address 138 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,560 to get the valuation. So you can just play around and 139 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,120 have a nosey and see what your neighbour's properties worth or 140 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,080 other. Do you do you find a lot of 141 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,560 searches are just kind of speculative or? 142 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,160 Nosey, that was that was very important to me because, you 143 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,720 know, back with Zoopla, I think it's actually changed now where 144 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,080 they want you to have an account and they want to, you know, you 145 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,640 know, send you emails about your property and try and get you to 146 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:36,320 sell it and all of that. But back in the day, it was 147 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,880 just, you know, a tool for the public to use. 148 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,280 And, and yeah, you, you could just be nosy, but yeah, I wanted 149 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,920 to make a tool that you, you could, you know, use as much as 150 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,200 you wanted and not be hounded by agents. 151 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,440 Like if you, if you want, you know, an agent, then we can help 152 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,800 put you in touch with someone. We're, we're not agents, but you 153 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,280 know, we can help put you in touch with ones that we trust. 154 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,520 But it's important to me that people can use it and not feel 155 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,520 like they have to give away personal information. 156 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:10,040 So where do you draw the line with privacy and transparency? 157 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:14,000 Because in the UK you can if you know someone's address, you just 158 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,600 pay 4 lbs on the Land Registry website and you get the title, 159 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,080 deed, name and the price that they bought it for. 160 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:26,120 So where do you draw the line? Like how much information is 161 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:31,800 important and will that stop certain sales from happening 162 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,680 because the the buyer finds out how much the property was 163 00:09:34,680 --> 00:09:37,800 purchased for two years ago? How does it influence people's 164 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,360 decisions? I think it's huge, you know, in 165 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:45,200 the long run, if, if Dubai wants to continue to become more 166 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:49,120 transparent, then people are going to have to become more 167 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,600 comfortable with that data being public. 168 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,520 Now, that doesn't mean that I'm going to be able to, you know, 169 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,400 look up who owns a property. You can't even really do that in 170 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,440 the UK very easily. But to know what a particular 171 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,960 property has sold for in the past, at the end of the day that 172 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,520 that is public information. You don't own that data. 173 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,360 Just because I buy a flat doesn't mean that I own all the 174 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,000 data about the flat. It's, you know, people have got 175 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,080 to get out of that way of thinking. 176 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,680 I think the Dubai government want to push transparency, but I 177 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:25,920 think they they're doing it in a slow and steady way. 178 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,920 We've gone up quite considerably in the JLL ranking. 179 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,880 So JLL have like an annual transparency, real estate 180 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,040 transparency index and I can't remember what we've got. 181 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,320 It was like in the 30s and now we're ranked in the 20s. 182 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,840 And I think the goal is to get into the top 10 most transparent 183 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,080 real estate market. So what data for us to be like 184 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,000 in the top 10? How much more data needs to be 185 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,480 out there? Well, honestly, you know, we're, 186 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,160 we're all hyper critical of what, you know, the current 187 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,600 state of the market and, and Dubai, because we live here, we 188 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,960 work here in this industry, we want it to be better. 189 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,400 But if we take a step back, you know, in terms of the region or 190 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,320 even the continent, honestly, Dubai, there's there's not many 191 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,600 contenders for more transparent real estate markets in Dubai. 192 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,920 I couldn't start yellow value anywhere else in the region 193 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,360 right now really. So Dubai is already way ahead of 194 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:30,040 the region, but to get on a par with the UK, Australia, Ireland, 195 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:35,640 you know, places like this, the main thing is making public the 196 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:40,080 transaction history for specific unit numbers and fillers. 197 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,200 And that's the one that's, you know, a little bit of a touchy 198 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,960 subject with some people, 'cause some people don't want their 199 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,680 friends and neighbors to know, you know, how much they, how 200 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:51,640 much they paid. Or what they're worth. 201 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:53,600 They might. They don't want people to be 202 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:58,440 able to calculate their net worth and there are a couple of 203 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,360 black holes which I feel are being filled in. 204 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,520 So DIFC is 1. What other data would you love 205 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,280 to? See, I think yeah, the same, the 206 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,760 same thing with rents rental contracts. 207 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:12,000 But I mean, yeah, that's the same issue as being able to 208 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:17,200 assign historical transactions and historical rental contracts 209 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,360 to specific unit numbers and villas. 210 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:27,000 Other than that, honestly, honestly, nothing really comes 211 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,400 to mind because even even based on what we have now, there's a 212 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,480 lot of data. Like it was enough for me to 213 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:38,720 start this company. So yeah, once, once that is, you 214 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,800 know, publicly available, I would be surprised if Dubai 215 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,480 didn't jump like if, if the next jump wasn't significantly bigger 216 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,680 than the last one. I'd love to see like 1 figure 217 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:55,880 that I'd love to see is a kind of comparison of initial listing 218 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,520 prices versus eventual sold prices. 219 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,960 That's a good one actually, that sort of information. 220 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,200 So if we if we and I don't think it would ever be totally public 221 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:14,120 because obviously it's owned by predominantly two companies and 222 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,680 I don't know why any of those would you know, make make that 223 00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:19,120 data public. You you're talking about the 224 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:20,920 property portals. Yeah, yeah. 225 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:27,320 To to be able to have a complete history of asking prices and the 226 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,000 dates that those properties went onto the market or came off the 227 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,680 market and be able to map them onto real transaction prices, 228 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:36,440 that would be phenomenal. Yeah. 229 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,800 But I don't know if we'll ever. Fully get that it's one thing 230 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,720 that I always use to advise my sellers and landlords is because 231 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,480 the natural instinct is let's go on the market. 232 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,560 Let's hit the market at the highest price. 233 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:53,040 Let's see if we get any nibbles. You know, and actually for me, I 234 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,560 always advised against that because that first week of going 235 00:13:57,560 --> 00:14:00,400 online or hitting the market is the most crucial. 236 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,440 And I don't know about you, but any, anybody that's looking 237 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,920 seriously will always filter by most recent rather than, you 238 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,480 know, OK, when you're shopping online, shoes, clothes, you 239 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,640 might sort by lowest price, highest price. 240 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,000 But when you're looking at real estate, you want to see the 241 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,680 freshest listings. So you're searching by most 242 00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,800 recent. But if it's a new listing and 243 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,440 it's priced at the peak price, then let's see if we get a 244 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,400 nibble price. Then you miss out on nibbles. 245 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,600 My flat, for example, was purchased around 2:00 or so 246 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:38,840 years ago. And a few weeks ago I saw a flat 247 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,600 come onto the market that was exactly the same, exactly the 248 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,920 same layout, exactly the same view for like double the price. 249 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,280 And I know the market hasn't doubled in that time, but that, 250 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,560 that is me who, you know, is aware of the building, is aware 251 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,560 of what the prices should be and also, you know, owns a valuation 252 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,400 company and uses it. The average person doesn't 253 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:06,280 necessarily have that. So yeah, I guess, I guess that 254 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,560 person was hoping that they would get some nibbles and 255 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,040 predictably they didn't because they've since dropped the price, 256 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,680 but it's still way too high. And then actually what they've 257 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,000 done since then of these, they've they've dropped the 258 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,800 price and then they've got three separate brokers to try and sell 259 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,560 it. So yeah, it happens all the time 260 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,680 here. But I think over time, as tools 261 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:33,360 like yellow value are more used and people are more in the habit 262 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,800 of going to them, then that will definitely not. 263 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,160 It'll never stop, but it'll happen a lot less. 264 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,800 And that's quite a common thing to just keep chipping away at 265 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:48,760 the price until you get someone biting, but you end up then 266 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,760 getting a stale listing, should we say so? 267 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,280 How can yellow value help in that scenario? 268 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:02,360 I think the more people that use it, the more unacceptable it 269 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:08,920 will be for sellers to to do it in the first place. 270 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:13,920 Like there, there won't be that perception that they'll get any 271 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,120 nibbles. Like right now the maybe they 272 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,600 have like a 20% chance they're going to get a nibble or 10% 273 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,600 chance. If more people are using yellow 274 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,960 value that drops to like less than 1%. 275 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:31,040 Obviously those numbers are not exact, but yeah, it's that's the 276 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,640 case. So that's that's one side of it 277 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,360 is preventing the sellers from doing it in the first place. 278 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:41,280 Also, I actually spoke to the agent that listed the property 279 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,840 initially for double. Did you call them and? 280 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,800 Say like, I know I, I was very, you know, upfront with them. 281 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,640 I I, I told him, you know, I was just interested because it was 282 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,400 obviously such a high price. And he said, yeah, like I told, 283 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,880 I told my client that's way too high. 284 00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:01,800 And they, they didn't listen if, if the agent had, you know, a 285 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:07,839 tool to, to go to the seller and be like, look, you know, we've 286 00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:11,160 got a valuation report from Yellow Valley, for example, or 287 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,760 someone else. This, this shows you that your 288 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,240 property is not worth what it is. 289 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,720 The problem now is that to do evaluation valuations are very 290 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,359 expensive generally and they and they take some time. 291 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,840 So that's why we came up with a product for agents, which is 292 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:34,560 something in between just a automated estimate and a full 293 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,480 valuation. It's kind of like a like a mini 294 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,400 report that they can, they can give to their client and be 295 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,280 like, look, you know, you can put your flat on the market for 296 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,400 that amount, but nobody's going to buy it. 297 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,880 This is what it's worth, and This is why it's worth this. 298 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:53,000 And, and yeah, as as those reports and as these tools 299 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:58,000 become more publicly used, then I think the practice will cease. 300 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:02,240 And is there anyone that you feel would resist this kind of 301 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,240 level of transparency? Like could some agents not want 302 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,240 to use the data or developers or? 303 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,160 Sure. Yeah, I've noticed. 304 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:19,120 I've noticed a trend that because Dubai is so competitive 305 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:25,040 for agents, I've noticed a trend of agents starting to kind of 306 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,840 call themselves advisors rather than just simply agents. 307 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,040 And I think, and I think that makes sense. 308 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,880 And I think if that trend continues where they really are 309 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,000 just, you know, kind of presenting you with the data, 310 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,840 finding out what you want and then helping you, you know, pick 311 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,200 something based on your requirements rather than trying 312 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,440 to sell you a specific thing, then then, yeah, I think I think 313 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,280 those agents will welcome these tools. 314 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,200 It's the ones that are particularly, I would say, 315 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,520 trying to market to foreign investors that don't know the 316 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:04,520 market very well and are susceptible to, you know, flashy 317 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,840 marketing and brochures and stuff like that. 318 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,360 Those ones won't enjoy these tools. 319 00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:14,080 But yeah, I'd say most agents probably do because if if these 320 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:19,440 tools help a buyer readjust their expectations or or vice 321 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:24,040 versa for a seller and help bridge the buyer seller divide, 322 00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:25,880 then yeah, I think the tools will be welcomed. 323 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,960 And there's a lot of talk right now about the role of the real 324 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,600 estate agent because you know, there's a lot of exciting new 325 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:39,640 things coming up with they call it agentic AI, where AI robots 326 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,040 or bots or whatever are going to be doing a lot more of the agent 327 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,720 role. So it's it's not going to 328 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,000 eliminate the role of the real estate agent, but perhaps 329 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:54,880 potentially push the the job start of the real estate agent, 330 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,840 like maybe they'd only appear on a viewing, you know, so that's 331 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,760 the first time you actually get to speak or see that your real 332 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,640 estate agent is when you're. When you come to view, and 333 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,200 that's because there are so many more tools now to manage the 334 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:14,360 qualification process, help the buyer understand what their 335 00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:19,400 budget can, but you know can get them and shortlist location, 336 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,720 shortlist in area, shortlist the type of property. 337 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,120 Do you find buyers are doing a lot of the ground work 338 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:26,400 themselves rather than relying on agents? 339 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,440 And do you see the role of the real estate agent evolving? 340 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:38,280 I think there's a tendency in prop tech to say, oh, you know, 341 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,160 we don't need agents or we can do without them. 342 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:47,200 I've never really felt that way because I feel like the the 343 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,840 start-ups that make that claim we're going to get rid of 344 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,960 agents, they kind of end up becoming. 345 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:54,440 Agents. Yeah. 346 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:59,200 So at the end of the day, like if there is some something or 347 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:04,200 someone, whether that's a human or AI that can help guide you 348 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,560 through, you know, the data get, you know, guide you through the 349 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,440 different areas, the different buildings, give you information 350 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,560 that you didn't previously have or help help you get, you know, 351 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,920 get the bits of information that you need to make a decision. 352 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,200 I, I don't see why that would go away. 353 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:21,840 I think you're, I think you're right. 354 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,400 I think it will be done more and more by AI, but I think that's 355 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,280 just everything, not just agents. 356 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,360 And I think agents would welcome that because they probably don't 357 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:34,200 so much enjoy, you know, doing all the homework for them. 358 00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:39,080 And as you said, like, they kind of step in as advisors rather 359 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,000 than consultants. And not right there from the 360 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,640 beginning. But I do, I strongly believe 361 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,760 like the role of the real estate agent will never go extinct. 362 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:54,040 It is the biggest purchase unless you're buying yachts and 363 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,720 buildings and whatever else. But it is going to be the 364 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,560 biggest purchase you make in a lifetime. 365 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,960 You're going to need some hand holding through that for sure. 366 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:06,160 If all the robots mobilized and and assisted with the process, 367 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:07,640 you're still going to need the human touch. 368 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,000 Even me, I'm very comfortable looking at all the data myself, 369 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:17,920 you know, and I, I enjoy it, but I chose to have a, you know, a 370 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,840 buying agent represent me. Yeah, 'cause at the end of the 371 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:28,560 day, what it's, it's 2%. You know, the Dubai market has 372 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,360 gone up by more than that each year since. 373 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,360 So in, in the long run, doesn't make a difference. 374 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,080 But if it helps you find something that you actually 375 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,280 want, then that makes a huge difference. 376 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,000 So I'd like to know more about that choice you made because it 377 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,160 sounds like a conscious decision that you're going to find a 378 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,600 buyer's agent rather than rely on the seller's agent. 379 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,440 So can you talk us through that? Yeah, I just wanted someone on 380 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:56,640 my side because again, you know, I did I, I started coding this 381 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,040 website when I was very fresh to the market. 382 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:03,040 I didn't know the market. So kind of while I was building 383 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:08,480 it, I just, I, I wasn't actively looking for an agent, but I knew 384 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,240 I kind of wanted someone to represent me. 385 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:17,120 And I was kind of trying to decide which like investment 386 00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:19,520 strategy I wanted because initially it was an investment 387 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,160 property. So I was trying to decide what 388 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,480 made sense, you know, Airbnb's or flat shares or whatever. 389 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:33,080 And I read an article that was written by an agency. 390 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,880 It was on their blog and I called them up and I, you know, 391 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,600 asked them about it and they said, oh, come in, you know, 392 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,080 we'll have a chat with you. So I went in, sat with them in 393 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,160 their like, conference room. It's just me and this, this 394 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,640 agent. And she wasn't trying to sell me 395 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,280 anything. She was literally just having a 396 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,600 chat for like an hour. And then at the end she was 397 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,920 like, OK, well, good luck. Hope it all goes well. 398 00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:59,320 She didn't, you know, follow up. She didn't try and push me. 399 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:03,800 And then yeah, like six months later after it, it was after 400 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,280 dealing with some seller's agents actually, that I just 401 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,600 decided, no, I actually I want someone on my side. 402 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:13,960 And yeah, I just messaged her and I was like, do you want to 403 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,080 do it? And she's like, yeah, go on 404 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,080 then. And it's quite rare that agents 405 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,440 actually advertise themselves as I'm a buyer's agent or I'm a 406 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,200 seller's agent. So how do you find someone to 407 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,880 represent you? I think it's, it's someone that 408 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,520 you trust now that's it's difficult if it's someone 409 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,640 you're, you've only just met. Obviously a lot of it is kind 410 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:38,560 of, you know, our, you know, our gut feeling or intuitions about 411 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,840 a person. Yeah. 412 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,640 I want, I want someone that isn't too salesy, that isn't 413 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,840 constantly trying to sell me and just constantly, you know, 414 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,760 hunting that Commission. I had a lot of that when I first 415 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,120 moved here. I actually, I think that's 416 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,560 partly why I built the, you know, the website to begin with 417 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,880 because I had agents, you know, really kind of contact me every 418 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:01,280 other day. Harassing. 419 00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:04,040 Yeah, a little bit. And and, you know, doing the 420 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,520 classic thing of like, you know, Jack, if you don't, if you don't 421 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,120 buy this, you know, it's going to it's it's going to go next 422 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:14,360 week and it's going to it's going to be worth X amount more. 423 00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:17,600 You know, you're really missing out like constantly doing that. 424 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,560 I didn't want that and. Do you think that agents do need 425 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,880 to evolve into kind of data consultants to some degree? 426 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,200 Yeah, for sure. You know, a good, a good 427 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:35,720 property will sell itself. I I'm very, very sceptical of 428 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:41,320 all of the, the marketing and the, you know, the, you know, 429 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,960 all of the stuff. I guess it's more, it's more 430 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,960 kind of more off plan. But yeah, a good location, a 431 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,360 good view, a good layout, it's going to sell itself. 432 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,520 You know, if you can just guide them to that, if that's what 433 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,840 they want, that's more important. 434 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,480 And is there an outdated real estate practice that you'd love 435 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:10,400 to see gone tomorrow? Yeah, I would say Dubai. 436 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,520 Dubai's evolving and the property market's evolving and 437 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,000 Proptech here is really buzzing right now. 438 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:23,600 But the financing side of things is pretty stagnant. 439 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,720 That hasn't changed as far as I know for like over 10 years now. 440 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:33,640 The mortgaging rules, only banks here can give mortgages. 441 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,280 You can't have, you know, private companies doing lending 442 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:40,760 and things like that. I think as Dubai continues to 443 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:46,640 evolve, I think that that very old fashioned way of doing 444 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,360 mortgages and financing that needs to evolve as well. 445 00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:53,040 So like in my, in my example, when I first moved here, I 446 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,160 didn't have a job, but I, I was just house hunting basically. 447 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:03,280 And I, you know, I had had my, you know, money kind of set 448 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,160 aside ready to buy a flat. And I was specifically trying to 449 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,720 buy an investment property, something that would pay, you 450 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,200 know, for itself, you know, with rental income. 451 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,640 And in my head, I I and I still can't understand why. 452 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,320 Why did I not get a mortgage, you know, for that it's a 453 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:27,040 property in a good location that's got rental income. 454 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,240 Why would a bank not finance that? 455 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,960 Why do they care if I? Have a salary? 456 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,560 Yeah. And it just shows, it shows that 457 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,000 there are issues with the system as a whole. 458 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,840 Like I, I mean, I've been told it's because it's very difficult 459 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,840 for the banks to repossess the property if if, if you stop 460 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,720 paying. So, you know, that needs to be 461 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,720 sorted. But yeah, I think if the, if the 462 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:56,360 market is to evolve to the point of, you know, truly competing 463 00:27:56,360 --> 00:28:00,560 with the US or the UK, then the the financing side of things 464 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,120 needs to kind of leapfrog into the 21st. 465 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:07,800 Century and what's on the road map for the other value? 466 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,240 Right now it's getting our volume, getting our valuation 467 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,880 reports into the banks so that they can be used for mortgages. 468 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,360 So yeah, that process is under way right now. 469 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,920 And then yeah, it's for me. The thing that excites me the 470 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,520 most is having yellow value be the go to place. 471 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,360 Whenever somebody thinks you know what is a property worth I 472 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:35,920 want I want them straight away to think oh yellow value just 473 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,400 the same way, you know like. Google. 474 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,720 Yeah, Google or Wikipedia or you know, that everyone has a go to 475 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,520 or Chachi BT everyone has a go to place where I, I want to find 476 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:45,960 something out. I'm going to go to that place. 477 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,840 If you could give one top tip for home buyers right now, what 478 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:55,960 would it be? So I've noticed in Dubai in 479 00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:01,920 particular, there is a real misunderstanding. 480 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:07,880 I would say that up and coming locations and developments, 481 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,480 particularly off plan ones are always better than kind of old 482 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,280 dated properties. So people will say, oh, you're 483 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,280 much better off, you know, buying something off plan in 484 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,360 Dubai S than buying something in Dubai Marina, for example. 485 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:25,560 And I think that's totally not true. 486 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,080 You get what you pay for. There's a reason why those 487 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,120 primaries are are expensive Downtown Palm Marina. 488 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,360 It's because they're prime and they will be prime. 489 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,640 I think in 20 years time. You're you're really taking 490 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,440 gamble, buying something off plan in the middle of nowhere, 491 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,520 hoping that it's, you know, one day going to appreciate the way 492 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:50,120 that you want. I would say kind of take take 493 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,520 those flashy off plan developments with a big grain of 494 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,600 salt. And advice for agents on how 495 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,040 they can integrate your platform into their daily routine. 496 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,240 Yeah, just use it for free like anyone else would, you know, 497 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,000 play around with it. If if you think that it's of 498 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,920 value to you, then check out the API So you can, you can plug it 499 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,080 directly into your website so that you can have, you know, 500 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,400 like a little valuation calculator on your website. 501 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,520 Give give your users a little bit more value. 502 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,240 Like I've noticed a lot of agencies will have a, you know, 503 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,040 like how much is your property worth? 504 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,120 And then you click on it and you just put your number in and then 505 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,800 they'll call you. We can make that a lot better. 506 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,480 So help to make your website a bit stickier as well? 507 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,360 Yeah, for sure. So agents, you could talk to 508 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,000 your agency owners. In fact, a lot of them are 509 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,080 watching anyway. So it's something that you can 510 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,600 integrate into your website to get an instant valuation. 511 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:48,520 Absolutely. OK, nice. 512 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:54,160 How do people find you? Yeah, I would say at yellow 513 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,120 value on Instagram is the main one. 514 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,200 Yeah, yellowvalue.com. Where else? 515 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,160 Where else would you see me? Probably driving around in the 516 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,320 desert or something like that, yeah. 517 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,560 OK, alright, anything else for our viewers? 518 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:13,120 Yeah, don't, don't be shy to get in touch if you have any 519 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,000 questions or you have any suggestions for things that you 520 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,440 would like to see on the site. You know, it's constantly 521 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,200 evolving. So if if there is something that 522 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,400 you would like, just just get in touch with us. 523 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:24,080 Yeah. Nice. 524 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:25,520 We welcome feedback. Oh. 525 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:26,520 Absolutely, yeah. OK. 526 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,440 Thank you very much, Jack. That was really useful. 527 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,360 And lots of golden Nuggets in there and get your own golden 528 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,640 Nuggets. Go and have a play on the 529 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:39,480 platform, type in, you know, your property, even if you're 530 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,320 renting, just to be curious. Go in, have a play on the 531 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,560 platform and let us know in the comments if anything surprised 532 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,160 you on the valuations. Don't forget to like, share, and 533 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:50,320 subscribe. Thank you.