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Ladies and gentlemen, please 
take your seats. 

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The show's about to begin. 
Ishtvan, let's put on a show. 

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Let's do that. 
Welcome to another episode of 

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Golden Nuggets with me, your 
host Sylvia El Darwi. 

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Today we're going to talk about 
everything Co ownership and I'm 

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joined by Istvan. 
Istvan you has and Istvan 

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actually is the Hungarian Steven
and we learned that Mustafa is 

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the Arabic Steve. 
So we are joined by Istvan Yuhas

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who is the Co founder and CEO of
Shard Shard Shard, which is a 

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new Co ownership model coming 
soon, very soon. 

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In fact, it's probably already 
here by the time this airs. 

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Right, exactly. 
We're here launching now. 

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Launching now, right? 
So we're getting, we're getting 

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the exclusive for you on this 
model, which is very 

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interesting, not just for the 
real estate industry, but for 

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anyone with money, OK, It's an 
investment vehicle, right? 

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So we're going to talk about 
that, get into the nitty gritty.

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You yourself, you're a XBCG 
consultant. 

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That's right. 
You He was Forbes 30 under 30. 

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Are you still under 30? 
I'm I'm not under 30 anymore but

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recently I still was. 
He was a Forbes 30 under 30 and 

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you were the ex CEO of what 
would be familiar to everyone 

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here Talibat but the Hungarian 
version, which was Fedora right?

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So tell us about you, your 
background and and what gave you

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the idea of building Shard? 
What is Shard even? 

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OK. 
A lot of. 

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Questions. 
Yeah, a lot of questions, right.

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Shard is the modern way to own a
second home. 

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You own part of a property and 
you can enjoy it for part of the

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year. 
The specific model that's spread

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around the world has eight Co 
owners. 

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That is eight people each own 
1/8 of a property and they can 

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use it for 1/8 of the year. 
That equates to 44 days, which 

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you can use yourself in a 
premium property or you can rent

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those days out. 
And all of this while you are on

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the title deed. 
Which is interesting because 

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very often with these kind of 
fractional ownership solutions, 

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you're actually part of what's 
called an SPV, which is special 

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purpose vehicle. 
So you're technically listed as 

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a shareholder of a company that 
owns the property. 

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In this scenario, you're 
actually your name is on the 

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title deed, am I right? 
You're right, the philosophy and

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the core of what we're doing is 
that you are a true owner, 

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right? 
So there is no legal structure 

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apart from you being on the 
title deed, which is as close to

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being to the property as 
possible. 

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So of course like prop tech as 
as my my viewers will know, is 

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very dear to my heart. 
I've got a background in prop 

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tech and I always ask all my 
previous prop tech founders and 

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I'll always ask the future ones.
What is the problem you are 

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solving for? 
Right. 

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The problem is a lot of people 
come to Dubai, they stay in an 

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Airbnb, they love it, it's 
beautiful, they know that the 

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market is hot. 
It would be a great investment. 

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The location is perfect to feed 
out everything. 

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They think about buying it. 
Then they wake up the next day 

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and they're like, should I 
really buy it when I'm staying 

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only a couple of weeks a year 
here? 

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So this is the problem that we 
are set out to solve and we 

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solve it by fractionalising the 
property. 

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So you still want to enter the 
property, You want to spend a 

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few weeks there a year, you want
to become a real owner, but 

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without having all the hassles 
and of course the financial 

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burden of owning the whole thing
outright. 

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And and can you tell us your 
journey building up to launching

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Shard, right, because your 
background is not necessarily 

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real estate. 
Yes, that's correct. 

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My my background is not real 
estate. 

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My background is coming much 
from from a a business area. 

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So I used to be a consultant at 
BCG, classic management 

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consultant, flying around the 
world and helping multiple 

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businesses, from banking, 
through banking, through 

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telecommunication companies all 
the way to energy companies with

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some very interesting problems 
to solve. 

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Then I started my first startup,
which was in education 

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technology. 
We were teaching, yeah, at tech.

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We were teaching a Harvard based
methodology, and that set out 

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from Hungary, where I'm from, 
and then we scaled it to 27 

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countries. 
Then I exited and I was looking 

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for something very different and
I realized that I love tech. 

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I was interacting a lot with 
developers, so I learned to 

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code. 
That was my next two years. 

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I was developing video games as 
a freelancer then, so you know 

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how. 
To code you can help me 'cause 

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I'm I need to code one thing on 
my website and I spent maybe 

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three hours trying to do it 
yesterday. 

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Sure, it might also take me some
time because that's not what I'm

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actively doing now, but it's a 
strong passion of mine and I 

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think it helps when you build a 
tech company that you actually 

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understand the tech part as well
and you can look at code. 

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'Cause that's The funny thing. 
It's, it's as a, as founders or 

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as business leaders, you have to
kind of calculate how much of 

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your, what your time is worth. 
So I was, when I was trying to 

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code, I was talking to myself 
like this is ridiculous. 

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You are trying to do something 
that is not your speciality. 

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Why are you wasting 3 hours on 
something? 

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But part of it was like, I'm 
intrigued. 

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I want to understand and I want 
to teach myself. 

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It's kind of that continuous 
growth. 

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And you, I mean you, your 
background, you did your degree,

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you did a master's, like you're 
still quite deep in learning 

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about the business, about 
different parts that have, you 

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can hire, you can outsource 
people for. 

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Right, I have the same feeling. 
So at the core I'm a geek. 

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I love going to the nitty gritty
details of stuff, which actually

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helps in this business. 
As you will see, there's a lot 

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of details that need to be taken
care of. 

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So actually the Co owners don't 
need to take care of those 

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things, which leads me to the 
next chapter in my career. 

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I was the CEO of what is called 
Talabat here, it's called 

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Foodora in Europe. 
I led the Hungarian business and

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later on the Slovakian business 
as well. 

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And food delivery is also a lot 
about the nitty gritty details 

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of making sure that the customer
is happy, optimizing all the 

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operations, having the rider at 
the right time, at the right 

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place, so we deliver on time. 
So I got experience from there 

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and at one point I had a 
discussion with a person who 

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became later on an investor and 
also chairman in our company who

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was very interested in building 
something in real estate in 

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Dubai. 
At the time, I was also a little

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bit frustrated with how real 
estate is done in Europe. 

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I saw it as something a bit 
archaic with a lot of 

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possibility to disrupt which 
always got me interested as a 

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startup here. 
So we started talking about 

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this, that was a year ago and we
realized that there is a model 

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where it buy it, which is 
basically which is growing and 

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it's gaining a foothold around 
the world and nobody is doing it

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here. 
So that is Co ownership 

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successfully implemented all 
across the world from the US 

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through South America, couple of
players in Europe, also 

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Southeast Asia, Japan, 
Australia. 

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So pretty much all the world has
this model, but in the Gulf area

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there is no one doing it, 
neither in Dubai nor in the 

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other Emirates or Saudi Arabia. 
Because I know I'm familiar with

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one company or one brand from a 
few years ago. 

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So I know you're not claiming to
have, you know, come up with the

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idea. 
It's not an, it's not your 

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original idea, but you're 
bringing this idea into the 

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region and it has been done very
successfully by one company I 

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think in Spain, which is also 
another High Holiday home type 

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location. 
So did you kind of wonder why no

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one's done it? 
Did it kind of ring alarm bells?

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And hang on, why has nobody 
already done it? 

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Well, that was the question 
initially pretty much everyone 

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around me asked. 
It sounds too good to be true. 

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If it was so why wouldn't have 
anyone done it? 

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And after some thinking and and 
talking to people here, I 

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realized that probably the 
reason is that real estate is so

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hot and you can make a 
significant amount of money 

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through the traditional selling 
of real estate that nobody has 

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gone through the trouble of 
figuring out how to sell a 

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fraction of a real estate. 
OK, so explain to us what 

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exactly a Shard is. 
Because Shard the the natural 

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definition of a Shard is I think
a Shard of glass like a you 

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know, not a, a fragment, a Shard
like a piece of of Shard, Shard 

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of glass. 
So this is a fraction of the 

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property. 
Do I have to know the So it's 8 

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owners in total? 
Do I have to know them? 

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Is it better that I don't know 
them? 

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Can I select who I Co own with 
like? 

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Tell us a little bit about the 
detail of how it works. 

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Right. 
So Shard is the one eighth 

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fraction of a property of which 
you are a true owner. 

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Your name is on the title deed. 
This lets you use this property 

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for 44 days a year. 
You can either use it yourself 

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or you can rent out your days 
through Shard. 

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When it comes to the other 
owners, you don't know about 

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them. 
So the other seven names, they 

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also enjoy anonymity. 
You don't know about them. 

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But their name appears on the 
title deeds. 

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Their name appears on the title 
deed. 

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If you want you could know, but 
of course the whole concept is 

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more about so whenever you are 
in the property you are alone. 

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The other seven Co owners are 
not there right? 

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They also have their own days 
when they can utilize the 

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property. 
OK, so this immediately gets me 

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thinking of the concept of 
timeshare, which was quite 

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popular back in, you know, the 
maybe. 

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I expected that question. 
Yeah. 

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So how is it different from a 
timeshare? 

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Right. 
So actually even Co ownership 

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started in the US three years 
ago, the first provider and 

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that's when I first visited this
visited their website, they 

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started the website saying this 
is not a timeshare. 

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I think the association all 
around the world is pretty 

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strong. 
Couple of reasons why it's not a

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timeshare and how that model 
evolved to what we now call 

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second home managed Co 
ownership. 

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One key difference is that this 
is not only a contract, but your

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name is on the title deed. 
Therefore it's therefore it's a 

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real ownership. 
Another concern with timeshare 

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was that it was really hard to 
exit your contract, right? 

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The value of that contract was 
close to 0. 

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You couldn't really sell it. 
That's different here since you 

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own 12 1/2 percent of a specific
unit that has a market value, 

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it's exactly 1/8 of the market 
value and the Co ownership 

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platforms short. 
In our case, we provide the 

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secondary market. 
So say after a few years of 

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using your property you would 
like to exit your investment, 

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you can do so without any 
limitation. 

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There is no limitation on when 
you can do it. 

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We also let you set your own 
price and we even help you find 

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a buyer for it. 
OK. 

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So when you own a timeshare in 
the the classic model, you're 

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not on the title deed. 
How does it? 

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How does ownership work on that?
Yes. 

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So timeshares, not that they are
sold nowadays, I think they went

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out to the shadows where they 
belong in my opinion. 

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But timeshare was essentially a 
contract. 

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It's a piece of paper which lets
you use a property for X years. 

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There was no relation to the 
ownership. 

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00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,800
The ownership rights stayed with
the timeshare provider. 

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00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:40,120
In our case, we as a company, at
the end of the sales process, we

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own 0% of the property. 
We only stayed there as a 

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manager. 
OK, So what would be the minimum

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ticket entry point? 
So for how? 

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What's the cheapest Shard I can 
acquire? 

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Yeah, we have beautiful 
properties on the site. 

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The cheapest starts at 200,000 
deer humps. 

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00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,080
So for 200,000 deer humps you 
get a 1/8 fraction of a premium 

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00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,200
property. 
The specific one is in the Dubai

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00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,400
Creek. 
OK, SO200K is the minimum 

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00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,160
ticket. 
Everything that you're looking 

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for at 200 is 1.6 mil and above,
right? 

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So you're sourcing the property 
and then you look for Co owners 

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00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,040
or how does it work? 
Do you have Co owners on your 

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00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,480
database and then you invite 
them to Co own on a specific 

228
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:29,600
property? 
Right. 

229
00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,920
Maybe I should mention that when
it comes to the price, the price

230
00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,120
differently than how it's 
typically done for real estate, 

231
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,160
partially because we don't 
consider ourselves a classic 

232
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,720
agency, right? 
So when I say 200,000 dirhams, 

233
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,400
that includes everything, that's
the total price. 

234
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,040
That includes not only the 1/8 
price of the property, but it 

235
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,640
also includes any brokerage 
fees, any trustee fees, the DLD 

236
00:12:55,160 --> 00:13:01,120
stamp duty fee or markup fit out
costs and the first year of 

237
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,600
insurance as well. 
So basically it's the what you 

238
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,400
see is what you get. 
If you pay this amount then you 

239
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,400
are covered and you already have
1/8 ownership. 

240
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,000
OK, so take me through the 
journey of what you do. 

241
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:16,440
So do you first find the Shard 
owners or do you first find the 

242
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,120
property? 
And how do you find and select 

243
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,320
the correct investment property?
Right. 

244
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,080
It's a bit of a chicken and egg 
problem, at least this is what 

245
00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,360
we thought originally. 
Now that we have done this 

246
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,160
model, we realize that actually 
it's more about the supply side.

247
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,240
So people are attracted to great
real estate, no matter how we 

248
00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:38,120
sell a fraction of it, whether 
there's a tech element, at the 

249
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,800
end of the day, people want to 
buy great real estate. 

250
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,320
They just love touching it. 
That's part of the investment, 

251
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:45,520
right? 
It's a tangible asset. 

252
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,080
It's not a fund, it's not a 
stock, it's not something 

253
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:49,960
abstract, it's something you can
actually touch. 

254
00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,440
So it all comes down to the 
supply and that's the first 

255
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:54,720
step. 
We have partnerships with some 

256
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,720
great agencies, Hospi, Angolan 
workers, Better Homes and we 

257
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,160
source the properties from them.
Our goal is not to list every 

258
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,600
single property in Dubai. 
There are already great agencies

259
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,640
doing that. 
Our goal is to find the top 1% 

260
00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,480
that's suitable for an 
investment and that's suitable 

261
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,600
for Co ownership and only list 
those. 

262
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,760
OK, so you're brief to the 
better Homes, the England 

263
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,360
Volkers. 
What do you tell them? 

264
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,200
What is your kind of this is 
what we're looking for. 

265
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:24,400
Yeah, just send us options that 
this criteria. 

266
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,680
Yeah, or this is pretty 
extensive, I have to say. 

267
00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,720
So sometimes when I start 
cooperating with these agencies,

268
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:31,720
they're like, OK, that's quite 
the list. 

269
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,640
You know, if it's Co ownership, 
it needs to satisfy a lot of 

270
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,960
criteria which normally any 
property and great premium 

271
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,120
property would need to and some 
more. 

272
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,720
For example, because it's Co 
ownership, we need to, we need 

273
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,800
to make sure that it can be 
rented out and some of the 

274
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,480
premium properties in the city 
are not allowing that. 

275
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,200
So those are already out of the 
picture. 

276
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,240
Rented out short term. 
Short term. 

277
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,600
Rental yes, short term rental 
needs to be allowed. 

278
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,760
Another important aspect is that
it needs to have a great 

279
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,400
amenities because no matter how 
I fit out a unit, if the pool, 

280
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,920
if the gym, if the view is not 
there, then it won't be a good 

281
00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,560
sale. 
It won't it won't fit short term

282
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,560
rentals and also it won't be 
necessarily a great investment. 

283
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,560
So the normal list you would 
have for a property plus some 

284
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:18,480
more. 
Plus a few more. 

285
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,840
OK. 
And you're not aiming just for 

286
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,440
properties at 1.6 million, you 
can go higher. 

287
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:28,120
If someone wants a Shard worth 
500,000, that's an option. 

288
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,440
Or even more so actually where 
we see, we see demand from two 

289
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,680
major sources. 
One is on the cheaper end. 

290
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,400
That's more than that's more of 
an affordability game, right. 

291
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,520
So people would like to enter 
the real estate letter and for 

292
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,560
them 200,000 or maybe 300,000 
Deerhams is a way to do that 

293
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,160
without mortgage. 
The other kind of demand we see 

294
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,400
is from jet setters, people who 
travel around the world, They 

295
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,360
come to Dubai a few weeks for 
leisure or business, they live 

296
00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,800
elsewhere, they live in the UK, 
they live in India, they live 

297
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,040
wherever for them. 
What's more interesting is the 

298
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,840
higher end properties actually. 
So right now on the site we have

299
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,720
properties on the palm as well, 
villas on the palm. 

300
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:14,240
I think the most expensive right
now is 6,000,000 per 1/8 

301
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,680
fraction, right? 
So if you've got 6,000,000 / 8. 

302
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:20,480
Yes, a lot of money. 
Yeah. 

303
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:21,840
All right. 
That's a that's a beautiful. 

304
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,280
Property. 
So for me it sounds great as a 

305
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:30,240
concept for someone who is 
saving up a deposit for an 

306
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,760
investment property but can't 
quite get there or doesn't want 

307
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,640
to take the risk or put all of 
their eggs in one basket, should

308
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,040
we say? 
So let's say you've got, let's 

309
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,480
say you've only got 200,000. 
This is a great solution because

310
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,160
I can put it in and get a 
fraction of the property rather 

311
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,000
than a whole property and I 
don't have to worry about the 

312
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,440
mortgage. 
That's it, it's done. 

313
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:58,400
I own it outright. 
Or someone who has a million to 

314
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,800
invest and doesn't want to put 
all their eggs in one basket. 

315
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,720
That's a fantastic idea. 
Exactly. 

316
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,400
So there are multiple ways how 
this can be interesting. 

317
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,440
One thing you mentioned is 
people who already have a 

318
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,599
deposit's worth, but some of 
those people for some reason 

319
00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:17,440
they don't end up buying. 
One of those reasons is that 

320
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:20,319
they're looking for off plan and
simply they're not making the 

321
00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:22,839
cut. 
So they are not able to buy the 

322
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:25,319
property they would like. 
So instead of an off plan, you 

323
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:28,400
can get a ready property, a 
fraction of a ready property. 

324
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,000
That's one scenario. 
Another one, a lot of people for

325
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,600
technical reasons, cannot get a 
second home mortgage, right, 

326
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:36,760
Right. 
Maybe they work in real estate. 

327
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,400
Maybe they haven't been in Dubai
for long enough and they are 

328
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,120
not. 
Yeah, so shout out to those 

329
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:47,400
agents who are making some like 
killer commissions instead of 

330
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,040
going out and buying a watch or 
AG wagon or whatever. 

331
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:54,480
Have a fraction of. 
Well, yeah. 

332
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,440
Exactly. 
Buy what you preach, right? 

333
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,800
I mean, real estate is hot. 
We all know that it is hot. 

334
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,240
But if you really believe in it,
then I think it's actually some 

335
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,080
of those assets which you can 
never have enough of. 

336
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,440
And another scenario which you 
mentioned that's very exciting 

337
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,640
is people who want to diversify,
right? 

338
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,160
They have enough, They have more
than enough to buy a full 

339
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,080
property. 
But I've seen this myself. 

340
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,720
There is another tower being 
built in front of yours which 

341
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,560
overshadows your terrace and 
immediately your property value 

342
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,320
drops. 
And that's a scenario which is 

343
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,480
hard to avoid. 
You're in Dubai with the pace of

344
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,080
development being as rapid as it
is. 

345
00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:32,680
So for those people who want to 
put their eggs in more baskets, 

346
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,440
buying shorts is an option, 
right? 

347
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,840
Instead of buying a a property 
for one million, you can 

348
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,000
actually buy 5 fractions. 
Or even better, if you have 

349
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,480
enough money for one property, 
you can use that money to buy 8.

350
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,320
So do you have any like big 
hitters on your platform, as in 

351
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,280
like people that are ready to 
put in one million and you're 

352
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,760
waiting for seven other people 
to put another million each so 

353
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,680
that you can go out and purchase
an 8 million unit for them? 

354
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,400
Yes, exactly. 
So actually high net worth 

355
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,920
individuals often come to us 
either to invest in the company 

356
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,080
itself or that they would like 
to diversify their portfolio 

357
00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:10,880
exactly for this reason. 
So they already come with, OK, I

358
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,720
have enough for a property, help
me figure out a good portfolio 

359
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,720
which has one property in 
downtown, another one in 

360
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,920
Business Bay, another one which 
is a great filler here. 

361
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:22,840
So they want to put together a 
portfolio and invest as such. 

362
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,480
And for that purpose, even if 
you have a lot of money to buy 

363
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,360
multiple properties in Dubai, 
that's very costly, right? 

364
00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:30,680
That's only for the ultra high 
net worth of individuals at this

365
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,520
point. 
This is exactly where a Shard 

366
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,480
comes in. 
You make it more accessible. 

367
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,600
So if you want to diversify, you
still have a realistic budget 

368
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,280
for owning multiple properties. 
So how does it work? 

369
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,480
Because obviously if I'm buying 
a property and it's all mine, I 

370
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:47,080
get to enjoy the rental returns 
each month. 

371
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:52,800
Now, if I'm buying a Shard and 
it's for the use of me for one 

372
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,680
for 45 days a year and the seven
other owners, where is the rent 

373
00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,880
coming from if it's just 
occupied by the Shard owners? 

374
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:03,960
Right, let's look at the 
scenario where all the owners 

375
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,960
would like to use this as an 
investment vehicle, right? 

376
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:12,520
For they all use it as return on
investment generating asset in 

377
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,280
that case and they indicate that
they would like all of their 

378
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,840
days to be rented out and then 
we rent all of those days out 

379
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,800
through our partner guest ready 
on airbnbbooking.com. 

380
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,040
You have nice occupancy. 
The, the, the, the property 

381
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:32,040
generates revenue, We split that
revenue evenly across the eight 

382
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,160
corners. 
That is the base and, and 

383
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,480
easiest scenario. 
Now let's say one of these 

384
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,080
owners actually decides, oh, 
this is a great property, I 

385
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,080
would like to stay there for 
Christmas. 

386
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,400
All right, then we look at how. 
Much which is high season which.

387
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,200
Is high season, right? 
So of course that person cannot 

388
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,880
get the same return. 
Everybody else still gets the 

389
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,000
same return as they would 
otherwise and this specific 

390
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,000
person gets a lower return. 
We look at how much revenue the 

391
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,520
property would have generated in
that, let's say, Christmas week 

392
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,160
and we deduct it from the 
specific person who used those 

393
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,440
days. 
So irrelevant who decides to 

394
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:11,760
stay and who decides to kind of 
cash in their their 45 days. 

395
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,800
I'm still getting what would be 
rightfully mine as a rental 

396
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,960
return or it's paid monthly, 
quarterly or how's. 

397
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,040
Absolutely, absolutely. 
You're a true owner. 

398
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,600
Be paid out quarterly. 
OK. 

399
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,560
So payouts quarterly equivalent 
to the rental returns. 

400
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:34,120
And I guess do you have, is that
part of your list of 

401
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:38,000
requirements when you're 
speaking to other agencies or 

402
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,840
with your partner agencies to 
give you supply, you're 

403
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,240
expecting a unit that could 
bring you a certain return? 

404
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,800
Right, exactly. 
So actually when we list the 

405
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,800
property, we put together an 
investment memo, right, a 

406
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,840
classic investment memo which 
calculates how much the rental 

407
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,040
revenue is expected to be. 
We do not use guarantees. 

408
00:21:56,120 --> 00:22:01,040
In my opinion, anybody who puts 
a guarantee needs to get that 

409
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,560
certainty from somewhere else 
and they overpriced. 

410
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,800
We don't do that. 
We estimate based on previous 

411
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,720
traction, actual Airbnb data how
much the specific property will 

412
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,680
generate. 
We look at properties which are 

413
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,840
able to give you net 5% rental 
yield. 

414
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:22,320
OK, so at the moment a lot of 
banks are giving you a 5% return

415
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:27,800
on your savings, so why invest 
in a Shard rather than keeping 

416
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,480
that money in the bank? 
Because of appreciation, right? 

417
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,080
So from the rental yield, you're
able to make roughly what the 

418
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,800
bank would otherwise give you. 
That's fair. 

419
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,240
Property is a bit more risky 
than a classic bank account, but

420
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,280
that risk also comes with a 
potential higher reward that 

421
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,200
comes from appreciation. 
So last year, premium property 

422
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,960
in Dubai appreciated by more 
than 17%. 

423
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,680
That's one 7%. 
Absolutely crazy. 

424
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,040
No other world city in the world
managed to achieve double 

425
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,480
digits. 
So on the charts, this is just 

426
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,760
of the charts number so far, 
what we have seen in the last 12

427
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,320
months is a very similar number.
So the pace of appreciation 

428
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,960
hasn't really slowed down. 
In fact, there are areas which 

429
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,000
are able to outperform like 
Creek that I mentioned over the 

430
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,560
last 12 months have seen a 23% 
increase in the average price. 

431
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,600
So if you look at that combined 
with the rental yield, then you 

432
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,120
are by far outperforming what 
you could earn from a bank 

433
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:26,840
account. 
So I want to know more about the

434
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,640
nitty gritty. 
So if there's 8 owners on a 

435
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,120
title deed, who the hell is 
getting the cold call? 

436
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,360
Whose number is going to be on 
the database? 

437
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,680
That will end up in every real 
estate agent's hands. 

438
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,080
Yes. 
So this is where the true 

439
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,200
ownership comes with. 
Also the hassle free part, we 

440
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,200
don't put your number in there. 
We put a number that we create 

441
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,160
specifically for this purpose. 
So we still get the one time 

442
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,680
passwords, but you are not 
bugged by anyone. 

443
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,440
Who's answering those calls? 
Is anyone going to be on that? 

444
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,200
That's going to be a busy 
hotline, right? 

445
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,440
That's a phone that only takes 
texts. 

446
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:05,400
Very good. 
OK. 

447
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,600
And what happens like I'm trying
to, I'm just trying to think of 

448
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,280
the logistics of owning a 
property with seven other 

449
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:14,440
people. 
I don't know. 

450
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:20,040
So what happens if me or one of 
them wants to exit or needs to 

451
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,520
exit? 
How how does do you have exit 

452
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,960
windows or do you have to find a
buyer And you like you said, you

453
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,200
help with that. 
So how does that work? 

454
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,400
If I just want I want out. 
The philosophy behind is that 

455
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,760
you are a true owner. 
As a true owner, you can exit 

456
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,400
anytime without any limitation. 
What it means in practice is 

457
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,400
that we do not have exit 
windows. 

458
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,880
You can exit any time of the 
year when you would like. 

459
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,520
How you do that? 
We have an app. 

460
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,200
That's where you schedule your 
stays, and that's where you also

461
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,960
can indicate if you would like 
to exit your fraction. 

462
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,320
If you do that, we'll let you 
know what the real price, what 

463
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,200
the fair market value of the 
property is right now. 

464
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,160
You can still list it at another
price. 

465
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,600
If you need money faster, you 
can list it word price. 

466
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,680
That's fine. 
What happens afterwards is we as

467
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,680
short we have a right of first 
refusal. 

468
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,000
So technically we can buy it at 
that price if we want from you. 

469
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:13,280
Easy. 
If you don't do that, then if 

470
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,360
you don't do that in the first 
five days, then the other Co 

471
00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:19,440
owners, the other seven people 
on the title deed, they also get

472
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,080
this offer. 
They can also buy it at that 

473
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,600
price. 
If they also don't want to do 

474
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,000
that, then we can help you find 
a buyer. 

475
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,440
Basically the list, the fraction
on our website, which is the 

476
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,080
best place for it, right? 
I mean, anyone who wants to buy 

477
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,520
a share of property is coming to
shorthomes.com, but you can also

478
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:38,960
bring your own buyer if you 
would like. 

479
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,200
We allow you that as well. 
Because I see it like like a 

480
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,920
classified. 
So you've got new shards and 

481
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,120
used shards section. 
My mind's just going into a 

482
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,680
second hand Shard. 
Yeah. 

483
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,720
And while we are getting into 
the nitty gritty, I think that's

484
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,840
an important part of how such a 
model operates. 

485
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,600
If you look at the more mature 
markets, the US for example, 

486
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,960
they have constantly on the 
website a supply of second hand 

487
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,440
shards or second hand fractions,
used fractions. 

488
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,600
And I think that gives also a 
lot of confidence to to clients 

489
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,040
that this is not a timeshare, 
right. 

490
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,800
There is a real market if you 
would like to exit your 

491
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,160
investment. 
But then a transfer fee will 

492
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,720
need to be paid on every exit 
right? 

493
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,360
Or every new entry. 
So I pay for that as the Exeter.

494
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,280
There are two scenarios. 
If you bring a buyer then we 

495
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,800
will only take a Commission from
the new person, the new buyer 

496
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,720
entering the the deal. 
If we find you a buyer, then we 

497
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,800
also take a small cut from you. 
OK. 

498
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:43,080
And then you need to go to that 
land department, get a new title

499
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,560
deed, right? 
We need to change the title date

500
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:46,600
that is correct. 
Yes. 

501
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,720
And then a transfer fee is paid 
on that chart effectively. 

502
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,160
Which the new buyer needs to pay
absolutely. 

503
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:53,600
Or would it be on the whole 
thing? 

504
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,880
How does that work? 
Yeah, how it works is DLD 

505
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,960
charges the 4% stamp duty on the
transaction value, right? 

506
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,480
So if 1/8 of a property is being
transacted, it's only charged on

507
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:05,760
the 1/8 value. 
OK. 

508
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,120
And you do realize this is gonna
mess up all the DLD data because

509
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:14,080
it's gonna look like properties 
were sold in like let's say 

510
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,600
Dubai Creek, you might have an 
eighth sold and that's going to 

511
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,840
affect the the data for Dubai 
Creek. 

512
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,400
No, because it's going to look 
like, I don't know how is it 

513
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,000
going to be reflected on. 
Well, we are in we'll. 

514
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,640
Soon find out. 
We are in close cooperation with

515
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,680
the DLD, so we are exactly 
looking at the specific details 

516
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,640
of how to do it. 
In general, it fully fits into 

517
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,080
the vision of Dubai, right? 
Affordable luxury. 

518
00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:45,720
And also I see Dubai real estate
as being very eager to implement

519
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,680
new kind of ideas, especially if
they worked elsewhere in the 

520
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,240
world. 
So our expectation is that this 

521
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,280
new way of ownership will find 
ground and the authorities are 

522
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,840
also very supportive. 
So all the administrative 

523
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,840
aspects are being done in a way 
that's fully compliant and very 

524
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,640
easy, very hassle free for all 
the users. 

525
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:07,720
And do you think that it's a new
generation of investment like 

526
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,200
the next Gen. 
Gen. 

527
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,600
Z? 
You're Gen. 

528
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,200
Z, aren't you? 
Officially, I'm a Gen. 

529
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:15,640
Y. 
Gen. 

530
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,240
Y OK, All right. 
But there are no alphas as well.

531
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,920
I just found that the latest 
generation is called alpha 

532
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,440
because we ran out of letters. 
Yeah. 

533
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,600
So we're back-to-back to. 
A back to a right back to square

534
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,000
one. 
All right, so the Gen. 

535
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:33,640
YZ, the alphas, is this fitting 
with their new, you know, their 

536
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,880
appetite from this, because I 
don't feel that they have that 

537
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,880
same pressure as, you know, my 
generation did. 

538
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,120
Like you haven't made it until 
you've become a homeowner, a 

539
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,760
whole entire homeowner. 
But now I think people are quite

540
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,960
comfortable investing in crypto 
and this and that and stocks 

541
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,720
and, you know, diversifying 
their investments, and there's 

542
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,120
less pressure to be real estate 
owners by themselves. 

543
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,320
So do you think you have a 
market there where it's gonna 

544
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,200
appeal to the next generations? 
Absolutely. 

545
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,640
It appeals very much to me. 
That's why I bought my first 

546
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,160
chart as well. 
I think that I'm coming from 

547
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,480
personally is that I'm being 
very asset light. 

548
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,960
In the last five years I've 
worked in five different 

549
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,920
countries. 
Now I will stay in Dubai to 

550
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,480
build this company, but in 
general I move around a lot. 

551
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,920
I'm not in favor of having my my
wealth in assets. 

552
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,360
And the general trend, how it's 
called is shared ownership or a 

553
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,160
shared ownership culture. 
People nowadays don't 

554
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,960
necessarily own a car 
themselves. 

555
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,040
They can use a car sharing 
service. 

556
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,960
People don't necessarily own 
their primary residence. 

557
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,120
Maybe they are using a short 
term mid term rental solution 

558
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,720
for that right So. 
And even Co working as well. 

559
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,400
People don't have their own 
offices they like. 

560
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,640
To exactly exactly. 
So it fully fits into that. 

561
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,120
In fact, if we take a bit of a 
detour and look at the 

562
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:51,760
historical backgrounds of Co 
ownership. 

563
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,960
This is where it comes from. 
Let's take a detour. 

564
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:55,560
Let's take a detour, a short 
one. 

565
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,720
But their Co ownership comes 
from the the do it yours. 

566
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,880
Sorry, The do it yourself 
version is basically people who 

567
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,000
wanted to travel around the 
world, live very freely, almost 

568
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,040
like hippies. 
And they had a property here, 

569
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,880
they had a property in the US, 
they had a property in Europe, 

570
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,160
in Asia, right with France. 
This is how initially it was 

571
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,280
started. 
And at one point it became a bit

572
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,440
more institutionalized, a bit 
more professional with the full 

573
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,240
legal background. 
And that's why I think that's 

574
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,000
why I think that Co ownership as
an industry is also now 

575
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,080
evolving. 
We have the first aggregator 

576
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,480
that lists every single Co 
ownership property from all the 

577
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,360
continents from similar 
providers to Shard and you can 

578
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,160
view them on one website, right.
So this is happening. 

579
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,560
And then if you are a jet 
setter, you can sell your real 

580
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,840
estate say in Dubai because you 
want to spend parts of the year 

581
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,080
in Europe, parts of the year in 
Asia and you can buy a fraction 

582
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,160
there. 
You can have basically a 

583
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,240
collection of fractions and 
travel around freely. 

584
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,760
Amazing. 
So are you planning on world 

585
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,880
domination at some point? 
Absolutely. 

586
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,880
So starting to buy, where next? 
Starting to buy the next? 

587
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,760
I think the next should be the 
other Emirates. 

588
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,120
Yeah. 
Ras Al Khaimah. 

589
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,120
Am I saying that's right? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

590
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:11,080
Ras al Khaimah. 
Ras al khaimah. 

591
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,520
You know what that means? 
Please tell me. 

592
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,440
Head of the tent? 
Head of the tent is Ras is head 

593
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,160
al of order. 
Hema is a tent. 

594
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,320
So head of the tent, I don't 
know, I guess peak or something,

595
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:28,600
right? 
Correct me if I'm wrong in the 

596
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,440
comments, but that's what I 
think it is, yeah. 

597
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,960
Right. 
So Rec could be a potential next

598
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,600
one where the next year we want 
to go to Abu Dhabi, could be a 

599
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,600
resort for people who are a bit 
tired of the hustle and bustle 

600
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,840
of Dubai. 
And REC is of course interesting

601
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,600
because of the casino 
development. 

602
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,520
And then the big ticket for 
everyone in real estate I 

603
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,760
believe is Saudi Arabia. 
We are already in talks with 

604
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,840
some of the major developers and
some of the mega projects in 

605
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,480
Saudi Arabia who are looking for
an innovative new way to sell 

606
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,480
real estate. 
Since they will have so much 

607
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,400
stock on the market, they are 
looking for alternative 

608
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,080
ownership models. 
And Co ownership is pretty much 

609
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,360
the latest kit on the block, the
most innovative new way of 

610
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,800
ownership. 
So when I think of Shard, I do 

611
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,960
kind of think you're some, 
you're not brokerage, but there 

612
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:22,400
is a brokerage element because 
you're selling properties, but 

613
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,880
eighths of that property rather 
than the whole. 

614
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,440
And you're not fractional 
ownership because you're on the 

615
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,840
title deed. 
There's no exit windows, there's

616
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,760
a difference. 
So can you just kind of explain 

617
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,000
how you're not, you know, the 
similarities that you have with 

618
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,400
brokerage and the differences 
and then the similarities you 

619
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,760
have with fractional ownership 
and the differences. 

620
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,480
Because I need, I feel like I 
need to pigeonhole you. 

621
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,040
I don't want to pigeonhole you, 
but because it's something new 

622
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,600
to the region, I need to 
pigeonhole you somewhere. 

623
00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,440
Yes. 
And that's certainly a better 

624
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,000
comparison than timeshare. 
Thank you. 

625
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,200
Yeah. 
So timeshare is out. 

626
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,480
We scrapped that. 
Yes, you're somewhere in between

627
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,800
brokerage, but I need to work 
out if you're closer to the 

628
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,120
brokerage or closer to 
fractional ownership. 

629
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,320
Yeah, that ties back to what I 
said in the beginning, that I 

630
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,280
love to be in the nitty gritty 
details and you need to be. 

631
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,800
We need to master elements of 
the real estate game, the agency

632
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,080
game, but we also need to master
elements of the fractional 

633
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,960
ownership game. 
So, but from one perspective, it

634
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,320
is real. 
We are a real estate agency, 

635
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,920
even though a different one. 
You have the license to act to 

636
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,360
broker. 
Effectively, yes, we have a 

637
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,120
brokerage license. 
We need to have a brokerage 

638
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:37,720
license. 
If you come to our site, you 

639
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,600
will find the re record the QR 
code there because we advertise 

640
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,400
property, right. 
So from that perspective, we are

641
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,280
also from the perspective that 
we are looking for great 

642
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,280
property, right. 
We are, we are scouting the 

643
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,560
market, we are analysing 
properties using data to find 

644
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,440
the best property for you. 
So there are elements of it. 

645
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,840
The other part is fractional. 
Fractional is basically a tech 

646
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:01,880
play. 
You need to have a great website

647
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:03,240
where you advertise these 
options. 

648
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,120
You need to have a great app 
where people can see how the 

649
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,239
value of their investment grows.
We also have to master that and 

650
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:10,080
we have. 
OK. 

651
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,040
So you've got an app, you've got
a website, there's one more I 

652
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:15,880
didn't put in the mix. 
Maybe you're in between 

653
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,800
brokerage and fractional 
ownership and the property 

654
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,639
portals to some degree. 
Are you like a classifieds at 

655
00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:23,840
some, is it a marketplace or not
really? 

656
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,080
You mean a listing website like 
by Uter, Property Finder, 

657
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:28,880
Innova? 
Yes. 

658
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,320
So for example, we put quite 
some effort into researching how

659
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,920
to show properties the best way 
since many of our buyers, they 

660
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,520
are not coming to view the 
property themselves. 

661
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:39,960
This is an online business, 
right? 

662
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,159
So they make a decision based on
pictures and videos. 

663
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,239
So we put a lot of effort into 
optimizing what angles we show, 

664
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,679
how we photograph these 
properties, putting in a 3D 

665
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,360
model of the unit. 
Yes, exactly. 

666
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,400
OK. 
And even though you're breaking 

667
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,520
the chunk down so you're buying 
1/8, are you getting requests 

668
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,920
from people to finance that 8th 
or yes? 

669
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:05,800
OK. 
We do get requests for 

670
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,720
financing. 
A lot of people are in it for 

671
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:11,720
the return on investment and 
well, that's the math part. 

672
00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:15,840
But if you're able to invest 
less and use the bank's money to

673
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,560
play with the bank's money, then
technically your return on 

674
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,120
investment can even double. 
So it makes financial sense to 

675
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,600
use the bank's money. 
There are a few ways you can do 

676
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,560
that already. 
One is equity release. 

677
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,720
So if you own the primary 
residence in Dubai, you can use 

678
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:33,400
that. 
You can collateralize that asset

679
00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:37,360
and get cash, which you can buy,
which you can leverage towards 

680
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,440
buying a short. 
Ah, so is that. 

681
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,480
That's another option. 
So if you already have a 

682
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,880
property, you're living in it, 
let's say, and you want to 

683
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,720
experiment with something else, 
you can release some equity, buy

684
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:49,920
a Shard. 
Exactly. 

685
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,440
And what about someone coming 
fresh? 

686
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,200
Can they get a mortgage or 
payment plan for their Shard? 

687
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,080
Or it's not something you offer 
at this stage? 

688
00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:00,520
Yeah, we are working on a 
payment plan for buying a Shard.

689
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,720
This is something that is normal
in Co ownership. 

690
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:06,760
So every bigger player in the 
US, in Europe have managed to do

691
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,240
that. 
We need to have a banking 

692
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:10,440
partner who does it, a classic 
mortgage. 

693
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,160
Just to be very transparent, you
cannot take a classic, you 

694
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,600
cannot take out a classic 
mortgage on a Shard because 

695
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,520
there would be multiple people 
on the title deed. 

696
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:20,600
And that's something that the 
banks don't allow, right? 

697
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,000
So we are working on a specific 
product that lets you finance a 

698
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:25,600
Shard. 
Equity release is already 

699
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,720
available and this other product
will come out soon. 

700
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,120
And how are decisions made 
between the owners? 

701
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,200
Like again, I'm just, I can't 
get my head around getting into 

702
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,720
some kind of legal agreement 
with seven other strangers, so 

703
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,440
how does that all work? 
Like, what if one of them dies? 

704
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,600
What happens then? 
So how decisions are made Every 

705
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,320
second week we come together in 
the living room and we create a 

706
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,480
forum in togas like in the Greek
times. 

707
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,720
And that's how we no, just just.
Kidding. 

708
00:36:53,720 --> 00:36:55,360
Is this like a metaverse thing? 
Yeah. 

709
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,840
How decisions are made? 
Well, technically for the small 

710
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,960
decisions, there is no 
involvement from the corners. 

711
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,680
Say the fridge needs to be 
replaced, something broke. 

712
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,040
We do that ourselves. 
There is no involvement from the

713
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:10,360
corners. 
You charge for property 

714
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,320
management. 
We don't charge a fee. 

715
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,240
Interesting management. 
How bigger decisions are made 

716
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:18,120
and what can be those bigger 
decisions? 

717
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,160
For example, the Co owners feel 
that the property could benefit.

718
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,680
The value of the property could 
grow if the TV was replaced by a

719
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,000
bigger unit. 
OK. 

720
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,120
They can put that up for a vote 
and we facilitate that vote 

721
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,640
among the Co owners and then we 
will execute their will or yes, 

722
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,800
there's a majority vote or for 
bigger topics they can actually 

723
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:42,200
replace chart we the last yeah, 
they can oust us. 

724
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,240
OK. 
We do that on purpose. 

725
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,520
We do that on purpose, so that 
we are incentivized to do our 

726
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,440
best and serve the interests of 
our. 

727
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,120
They can vote you out. 
They can vote us out, yes, they 

728
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,200
can replace us with another 
property management company if 

729
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,440
if they would like and if they 
are not satisfied with our 

730
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,720
service. 
Because I guess they will just 

731
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:04,040
still continue to remain owners.
It does you. 

732
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:09,040
You effectively adjust the 
management and facilitator of 

733
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:13,120
Shard exits for the duration. 
So you facilitate the beginning,

734
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,960
then you manage, and then you 
coordinate exits and entries. 

735
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:20,160
Yes, but you can be replaced, 
yes. 

736
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,880
This is of course not the goal. 
The model works best if we do 

737
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,080
our job well as well. 
And there is another scenario, 

738
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,200
for example if the Co owners 
decide that they would like to 

739
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,240
sell the property as a whole. 
Yeah, they feel like that's a 

740
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:34,400
great. 
Move because the market moves in

741
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,880
such a way they can also put 
that up for a vote. 

742
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,240
For that, majority vote is not 
enough. 

743
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,240
Seven out of the eight corners 
need to vote for actually 

744
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,320
selling the property as a whole.
But then again we will execute 

745
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:47,080
their will. 
OK. 

746
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,320
So there's some decisions where 
you need like a high majority 

747
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,520
values like selling. 
OK, that makes sense. 

748
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,320
And divorce? 
What about divorce? 

749
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,640
Right. 
In case of a divorce, there are 

750
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,560
three scenarios, right? 
The two people can decide to 

751
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,320
split their investment. 
That can only happen if they own

752
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,080
at least two eights, because 
then it can be one. 

753
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,200
You can split it only in 
multiples of 1/8 fractions. 

754
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,840
You cannot split a 1/8 any 
further, so that can be one 

755
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,360
scenario. 
Scenario 2 is that the husband 

756
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,120
takes it. 
Scenario 3 is that the wife 

757
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,800
takes the fraction. 
What if I want to buy multiple 

758
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,440
shards so that I can have a 
majority vote or something? 

759
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,640
Like how does are you able to 
purchase more than one Shard? 

760
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,360
Yes and no. 
If you're able to purchase more 

761
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,680
than one Shard, you can purchase
up to four eighths of the 

762
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,080
property. 
In that case, you would have 

763
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,520
half of it, right? 
That still doesn't give you a 

764
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,880
majority, so you're not able to 
overrule others if it comes to a

765
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:46,840
decision. 
Right. 

766
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:52,000
This is a new concept and it's 
been done, you know, in Europe. 

767
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,680
We're about to see how it's 
going to work here. 

768
00:39:54,680 --> 00:40:00,640
What are the kind of risks that 
you're expecting or common 

769
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,840
issues that you're expecting to 
face that you haven't yet come 

770
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,240
across, right? 
What are you geared up for? 

771
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,200
Right. 
So one common concern that I 

772
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,480
hear is the seasonality of 
Dubai, right? 

773
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,440
So the model is coming from 
place places where there is also

774
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,160
seasonality and I think 
everybody found a way to go 

775
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,400
around that. 
Yes, there are a few months in 

776
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,640
Dubai which. 
Probably like this month. 

777
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,080
Like right now when we are 
shooting, it's fairly hot. 

778
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:31,080
And AC is not working. 
We're quite cool right now. 

779
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,080
It's. 
Yes, if you're sweating, it's 

780
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,320
not because we are, it's because
of the AC. 

781
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:42,760
In any case, we created a 
scheduling system which goes 

782
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,960
around this problem. 
So basically we adjusted the 

783
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,160
rules that we found in other 
continents to fit the 

784
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,720
seasonality specific to Dubai. 
Because it is one of those 

785
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:55,120
things where everyone's going to
be fighting over the New Year 

786
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,480
slot maybe, or the December, 
October, November, December 

787
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,480
slot. 
To be a bit more concrete, so 

788
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,960
for example about the New Year 
slot, you can book two years in 

789
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,160
advance, you can book New 
Year's, but then you're not able

790
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,120
to book New Year's again, right?
You can only book that once. 

791
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,760
Or another thing is we limit how
many stays and how long those 

792
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,640
stays can be. 
At one point, we only allow you 

793
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:21,000
to have three maximum 10 days 
each advanced stays. 

794
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,560
So you cannot put all your 44 
days in there and book entire 

795
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,200
December and January. 
OK. 

796
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,040
The whole point is that the 
stays must be equitable for the 

797
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,280
corners. 
OK, So naturally as a tech 

798
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:37,360
founder, one exit under your 
belt, what's the plan for this 

799
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:38,880
second exit? 
Because you're, you're not 

800
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,080
planning on doing this for 1015 
years. 

801
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,440
So what what's the what's this 
exit strategy in the next five 

802
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,720
years? 
Are you planning to exit in five

803
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:47,840
years? 
Yes, we are. 

804
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,840
We, we have just started and of 
course the goal now is to build 

805
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,360
this up. 
But yes, in the time plan, we 

806
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,600
have an exit scenario. 
We have multiple potential 

807
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,600
buyers for this. 
So how it can go? 

808
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,240
I think the region as a whole is
very strong. 

809
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,040
It will keep developing. 
Will Dubai be in five to seven 

810
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,360
years our main market? 
I'm not so sure. 

811
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,960
I think Dubai will be a crucial 
market in the beginning. 

812
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,280
And it's very good to learn how 
to do this, how to properly 

813
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,480
scale the model in the Middle 
East. 

814
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,360
But then Saudi Arabia has just 
so huge potential that 

815
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,280
eventually I believe our focus 
will shift over there. 

816
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:28,120
When it comes to Saudi Arabia, 
they will have a need for 

817
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,680
selling out a lot of units from 
their Giga projects, right? 

818
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,520
So they can be a potential 
acquirer. 

819
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,520
Another potential way can be is 
that a family office or a real 

820
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,480
estate agency is looking for a 
cash cow. 

821
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,840
And since this is an innovative 
model with a great revenue 

822
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,480
generating capability, it can 
work out from a business 

823
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,000
perspective Why it's great is as
long as there are no other 

824
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,960
entrants in this market, we can 
set the price right so we can 

825
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,800
generate nice revenue. 
And actually it's not easy to 

826
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,360
enter this market. 
And what we have seen everywhere

827
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:05,960
else is that there is one 
dominating player even after 3-4

828
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,560
years in the US now, since if 
somebody wants to buy a 

829
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,520
fraction, they will go to the 
biggest player, that's where 

830
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,800
they have the highest chance of 
actually buying a unit like 

831
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:17,440
this. 
But you have the, I suppose 

832
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:21,440
just, I mean saying that you 
probably have competition risk 

833
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,640
coming from the fractional 
ownership companies and also the

834
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,320
brokerages. 
What's to stop them from 

835
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,640
reproducing your model? 
Yeah, I think in both cases the 

836
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,720
answer is the same. 
They already have a great 

837
00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:35,960
business and this is relatively 
complicated to put together. 

838
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,640
It requires, it requires a lot 
of focus on finding the perfect 

839
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,760
governance model, optimizing all
the legal setups for this, so 

840
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:45,880
developing the tech etcetera, 
etcetera. 

841
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,720
So I think a lot of these 
companies would not go this 

842
00:43:49,720 --> 00:43:51,720
difficult way down this 
difficult road and they're. 

843
00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:56,440
Struggling as as it is to find 
one lead for one property, let 

844
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:02,080
alone 8 buyers for one property.
Even though the sales time for 

845
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,520
1/8 should be faster than for a 
full property, right? 

846
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,080
So we look at short as a sales 
accelerator. 

847
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,000
In an ideal case, we are able to
sell out a property in roughly 

848
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,040
the same time or even faster 
than somebody would sell out the

849
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:17,200
whole property. 
OK. 

850
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,960
And in terms of fundraising and 
you know you've just gone 

851
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,360
through the journey, have have 
you, how much have you raised? 

852
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:25,840
What are are you currently 
raising? 

853
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:26,320
What? 
What's? 

854
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,960
Your we have already raised our 
pre seed funding. 

855
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,240
So that got us through all the 
way, the product development 

856
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:36,200
website application, the legal 
set up, hiring the right team, 

857
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,320
putting together a marketing 
plan, putting together the sales

858
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,760
strategies. 
Now we will start raising our 

859
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:47,120
second round, which will enable 
us to scale up in Dubai and then

860
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,360
we will need further rounds to 
expand to the other Emirates. 

861
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,400
OK, we've got some VCs and Angel
investors watching, so how much 

862
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,840
are you looking for for a Shard 
of Shard? 

863
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,000
Right in the next round we are 
raising $1,000,000. 

864
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:06,240
OK, alright. 
Any investors out there you the 

865
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:10,160
details will be down below. 
OK, but my audience is not just 

866
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,520
angels and investors. 
My audience is real estate 

867
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,160
industry professionals. 
So from CEOs to agents to 

868
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:22,400
property managers to everyone in
between, how can they work with 

869
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:23,760
you? 
So you know, they might have 

870
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,840
been watching this episode and 
thinking, ah, I can, I've got a 

871
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,520
listing. 
I can sell it through Shard. 

872
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,320
How? 
How else can they work with you 

873
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,880
and how does it work? 
Right, So what's? 

874
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,920
In it for them. 
That's what they wanna know. 

875
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:39,960
I love it. 
I know my people. 

876
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,840
What's in it for them? 
Look, I think that all of these 

877
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:48,160
people come across leads who 
would be interested in buying a 

878
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,680
sharp. 
So let me explain a little bit 

879
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:51,960
what has gone successfully so 
far. 

880
00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:56,240
Talking to the real estate 
agents now, they probably have 

881
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,920
leads who would like to invest a
considerable amount in Dubai, 

882
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:01,840
but they are worried about 
market risks. 

883
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,680
So one way to hedge risks is 
actually what you said, put your

884
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,320
eggs in multiple baskets. 
You don't have to choose one, 

885
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,520
right? 
You can choose all of them and 

886
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,640
invest in all of them. 
You can buy a fraction in 

887
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,040
multiple properties, so. 
That's one way of doing it. 

888
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,480
So I, you know, I know guilty of
this. 

889
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:22,880
I used to take inquiries and 
they had a ship budget and I'm 

890
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,000
like time waster their budget. 
Why are they calling me 

891
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,320
ridiculous budgets? 
So now there's no need to trash 

892
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,920
those leads. 
You can actually convert them 

893
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,200
into a Shard owner. 
So there is now something that 

894
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,280
you can do with those people 
that have a smaller budget. 

895
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,600
OK, continue. 
Every dream counts. 

896
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:42,280
Yeah, exactly. 
Every dream counts. 

897
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,640
So This is why we are now 
launching a cop referral Cop 

898
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,600
where you can refer clients to 
us who don't have sufficient 

899
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,760
amount, maybe because they 
simply have budgetary 

900
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,160
constraints, maybe because they 
cannot get a mortgage for some 

901
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,200
reason. 
So all of those leads are very 

902
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,440
valuable for us. 
They are paying an above market 

903
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,520
Commission of 3% on the net 
short price. 

904
00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:09,840
That's if these dead leads, 
let's call it a deadly pool of 

905
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,800
the not a Not a cut. 
Sounds so negative the pool. 

906
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,520
Of dead leads. 
Dormant leads? 

907
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:16,720
How about? 
That the dormant leads. 

908
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,920
OK, that's right. 
OK, so I get thrown into a pool 

909
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:26,880
of dormant leads and I get 3% 
Commission if one of them buys a

910
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,200
Shard. 
Exactly. 

911
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,760
All you need to do is refer the 
client to us. 

912
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:32,080
We have a handy website for 
this. 

913
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,200
You simply make the referral and
then we take care of everything 

914
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,000
else. 
We explain the model to the 

915
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,720
customer, we show them the real 
estate if they would like, we 

916
00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:42,680
structure the whole deal and and
make the sales. 

917
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,280
OK, do I throw these dead leads 
to you or how do I need to have 

918
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,040
the conversation with the dead 
lead and just explain I'm gonna 

919
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:49,520
throw them in the dead lead 
pool? 

920
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,600
Well, you should tell them what 
they are signing up for, right? 

921
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,240
So you should explain that this 
is about Co ownership. 

922
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,840
But typically we get leads who 
have heard a few sentences about

923
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,280
this. 
They are very eager to learn 

924
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:04,120
more and we are happy to do that
part and also because this is a 

925
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,120
competition, we will run it from
mid August till end of 

926
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,760
September, OK And we will then 
hand out cash prizes of up to 

927
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,720
50,000 dirhams to the top 
referrals. 

928
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:20,160
Is this an exclusive competition
for Golden Nugget viewers? 

929
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:21,880
There we go. 
Well, every drink. 

930
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,640
Out some money now. 
OK, All right, so make some 

931
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,560
money out of the show, not just 
learn and educate yourself and 

932
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:31,200
entertain yourself. 
OK so is there a link or 

933
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,560
something I can add down below? 
Yes, OK. 

934
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,680
Exactly shardhomes.com/refer. 
That's where you should go to. 

935
00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:41,400
Shard homes slash refer We're 
going to put the link down below

936
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,560
you. 
OK, so just, I know I called it 

937
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,080
deadly, but what you do is if 
you've got someone who doesn't 

938
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:52,760
have a sufficient budget and 
instead of just saying sorry, I 

939
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:57,160
can't help you, you say, look, 
I've got another alternative for

940
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:00,280
you to strongly consider. 
It's a very popular investment 

941
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,280
vehicle. 
Rather than you buying a 

942
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:07,440
property on your own, you can 
purchase it with seven other 

943
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,680
dead leads. 
OK, No, no, we'll get a treat. 

944
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:17,520
No seven other Co owners and all
the hard work is taken out of it

945
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:19,560
basically. 
OK, exactly. 

946
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,560
So you can have the 
conversation, can there be like 

947
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,880
a little intro? 
There'll be an intro or a brief 

948
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:26,160
sure on how they can explain or 
something. 

949
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,040
We'll put that together. 
Okay, can anyone enter this? 

950
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,120
Cup, right, so you have the 
agents who for whom it is very 

951
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:35,840
interesting because they could 
make more Commission than from 

952
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,120
selling out a property, right. 
Instead of the classic 

953
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:41,480
Commission, you get 3%. 
But it is also very interesting 

954
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,160
to people who come across people
investing in Dubai. 

955
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:51,440
It might be conveyancers, people
in property management, in 

956
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,560
property management. 
Can I just like, I have a 

957
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,040
background in property 
management as well and a shout 

958
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:01,280
out to you guys, You are working
so hard, dealing with all the 

959
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,040
complaints, all the headaches 
and you're seeing everybody 

960
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:08,440
around you making so much money 
out of Commission and you feel 

961
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:09,960
like you're working harder than 
them. 

962
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,240
I know, I know what it's like. 
But this is an opportunity 

963
00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:15,920
that's available to them because
you're dealing with the property

964
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:20,120
managers are dealing with 
tenants who are trying to get on

965
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:24,560
the property ladder or you know,
most likely will be moving out 

966
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,840
to get on the property ladder. 
So what's in it for them? 

967
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:28,400
The property managers? 
The conveyancers? 

968
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,160
The administration? 
The receptionist? 

969
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:32,640
Exactly. 
Well, This is why we call it 

970
00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:37,120
every theme counts because a lot
of people come across these 

971
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:41,160
opportunities and up until now 
they did not have the, did not 

972
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,280
have a way to actually leverage 
these, these contacts. 

973
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,480
Now they do. 
So again, with a very simple 

974
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,000
referral, you can make money out
of these contacts and also you 

975
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:51,480
don't need to be a real estate 
agent. 

976
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,560
You can make a simple referral 
without having any kind of 

977
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,240
license. 
So Ishtman, for anyone that's 

978
00:50:57,240 --> 00:51:01,200
stuck around till the end of 
this episode, what is your go to

979
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:05,920
market message for the industry?
Co ownership is for everyone, 

980
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,240
whether you are an aspiring 
second home owner or a 

981
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:12,400
conveyancer who sees how much 
money is being made in real 

982
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,920
estate, Co ownership and share 
this for you. 

983
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,600
OK, that's it. 
That's a lovely message. 

984
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,160
Thank you. 
Making it more accessible, 

985
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:26,000
sharing culture, tech, property,
real estate investments. 

986
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,000
Yeah, all of the all of the 
above. 

987
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:30,880
All right. 
Thank you so much for joining me

988
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:32,880
as far that was really 
insightful. 

989
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,560
I learnt something. 
I hope you all learnt something 

990
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,040
as well. 
If you have any questions that 

991
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,680
you wish I'd have asked, please 
leave them in the comments. 

992
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:44,200
The team from Shard will be more
than happy to respond to them. 

993
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,320
Thank you very much. 
See you next time. 

994
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:47,240
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