So we need to step to World War One.
Okay, there was World War One and there was it was difficult
for folks to travel by ship between India and England.
Okay, let's wear our story starts.
So so far we've talked about these researchy and Academia
stuff like that right here. So computers are in use in the
1960s for doing grunt work. And was the grunt work was
payroll processing through tons, okay.
The podcast on all things data. This podcast is a series of
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And each week. We aim to unpack a different
compartment of the data suitcase.
I am your host. Got the chassis that I'm a
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former data Etc consultant, I currently head analytics, and
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One of India's largest logistics.
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All the is expressing his podcast belong to me, and my
podcast Pious and it Not reflect the views of any organizations.
We might be associated with nothing.
Discussing this podcast should be taken as for a cheap for a
few days that I was watching Alma Macos the Netflix
documentary on life in IIT character in that show.
The graduating students talk about data analytics as a
possible career path in case they fail to die and the core
engineering job. So how did we get here in India?
How did data and analytics become so mainstream that
graduating students talk about it as a possible career path or
rather as a backup possible career path to understand this?
We need to understand the history of what we now called
analytics and this history goes back over. 100 years, Our Guest
today is envious into co-founder and CEO of easa research and
digital for the last two decades.
He has been working on R&D and Innovation, man.
Judgment, especially focused on ID is working on the evolution
of Business and Technology focused on ID and related
domains in the Indian context in earlier about that.
He was a consultant advising msc's setting up high
performance, our Indie and it organizations in India who was
also a researcher in the RND arm at Infosys and quote a couple of
u.s. Paintings.
Let's just go very far back. Right?
So, so I guess the analytics in some sense is sort of the tunnel
in India. It's connected to sort of
economics and the and industries and so on.
So can you take us back maybe all the way back to Independence
or something? So classic, we need Step really
back. Okay, so we need to step to
World War One. Okay.
There was World War One and there was, it was difficult for
folks to travel by ship between India and England.
Okay. Let's wear our story starts.
There was a young Gentleman by name PC.
Mahalanobis. Okay.
Who didst? I pause, try pause in Cambridge
University of Cambridge in physics, and was set to return
to India and death. And World War One started and
his stay in India got extended. So just before he got to India,
he was with a tutor and the tutor in.
So, the studio system is pretty interesting.
Right? So, you are bought a bunch of
students that you sit with a tutor and you talk about
everything under the sun and life and meaning of life and
things like that. So, one of his tutors mentioned
to him about relatively new field and interesting Journal
that published. Field and this new field was
statistics and the journal was biometrika.
Okay, so so p.c. Mylow Nobis.
Say that. Okay.
Let me just say you don't read a few of these journals and he was
so intrigued by what was published there and statistics
in general that he bought a, you know, whole bunch of, you know,
old issues of biometrika on his way back to India and we're
studying them with the ship. So, the interesting fact for
folks in non latex, is that biometrika was founded started
by this gentleman called Karl Pearson.
Okay, Pearson off. Yeah.
The correlation correlation is
p. I'll use your Chi Square method
of moments and stuff like that, right?
Yep. So so, so mahalanobis was, you
know, it just caught on to it and fell in love with
statistics. So, he gets back to India and
then his, obviously his return back to England is delayed.
So he gets a faculty position at the presidency college.
And in the due course, he starts lab all the statistics lab, and
this lab is essentially his office.
Okay? Okay.
So, so the war ends, he's comfortable in Calcutta teaching
a bit of physics and, and studying, a lot of Statistics
and then whoever is interested in statistics.
He offers courses in statistics to them and soon he is the, you
know, the students of Statistics are India.
And, you know, we have the, we have the Bengal famine coming in
and mahalanobis was saying Gates by the government of Bengal to
estimate the the, you know, the amount of party that will be
harvested in Bengal and surrounding regions.
So he does a lot of cool work there and for this uses
mechanical calculators, right? So at that point in time, they
know electronic calculator, so he gets that and he gets a, you
know, a bunch of people who are actually the computers humans
Computing to, to Crunch all the data that is collected and, you
know, run the regulations and stuff like that.
So in this context, he he realizes it statistics East.
To be established as a separate subject Zone and decides to
start a DOT for profit, which is is I in the Statistical
Institute and I get 32. Okay, so is I starts and then he
goes, you know, full thrust into a statistics and he's the first
guy to import electronic computer into India.
Okay, in 1956, motivated by the The fact that he was, you know,
he started what's now called the national sample survey is
essentially a sample of Indian households, you know, and data
collect collected on what the households consume, and where
they spend their money. And and you know, how many
people are there and how healthy are they and things like that?
Okay, so he starts started the early 50s and the mid 50's.
He is the, you know, he's the author of the second Five-Year
Plan. Yes.
It's a lot of, you know, analytics economics going on so
the computer can Which is a key c2m from the United Kingdom and
that's the first electronic digital computer than India.
So that's where the entire virtual.
I say the discipline of Statistics analytics and even
computer science to some extent started in.
India comes in statistics and analytics in India is like 100
years old. If, if it is during the first
world war that he made his journey back to India with the
essence papers. Yes.
So how about? So when you were telling me a
story with are two questions popped into my head.
First one was like when he established this is, is the not
for profit which became is a 1932.
Did he manage to get other faculty members?
And if so, like, how how do we recruit those faculty members?
Because I assume not too many people who are studying
statistics in India packet back at that point in time.
And the second question is later on when he got the computer
positive and there's a famous story about how like Infosys.
Auntie to can import a computer into India and they had to kind
of flick go through some lots of Hoops for that.
Like, how easy was it for Maja numbers, to get his computer
into I say on the UK. Okay.
So the the first set of folks, as you write, he said the Rabia
still not statistics folks, but they were folks were interested
in statistics, but but higher their training and other
subjects like physics and math. So but they just, you know,
where students of Hello numbers, and we're intrigued interested
and passionate about doing statistics.
So they were the first folks who were teaching there and doing
research. And is I, so the, the compute,
the import of the computer was was, you know, it's pretty
straightforward because mahalanobis and Pandit nehru
will good friends. Yep, so he could ensure that,
you know, that there was you know, there was never know.
What should I say? No obstacles in terms of foreign
exchange for travel and things of that required to get a
computer. So, incidentally, the second
computer in India was also too. Is I this time it was a computer
from the USSR called the Ural. So this is a time when
mahalanobis was starting to being towards the left and and
decided that, you know, he could, he could get, you know,
more bang for the buck by going in for a computer from the
Eastern block. So So this is a 1959 or so.
We have 59, when the computer lat.
So, again, used for statistics largely for algebraic and
statistical calculations correctly, and I guess back
then, since we were sort of a pseudo socialist, sort of mixed
economy with with five year plans.
And so what I'm guessing that statistics would have formed it
would be the you do been an important part for the
government, right? Because like if you need to know
how to allocate, if you want to know how to allocate resources,
you need to be able to kind of This stuff will like get the
information in the in the right Manner and and so on, so on, so
I can imagine say we're mahalanobis, 40 patients in that
time. B is I was so pivotal in terms
of the statistics that you need and oh, I absolutely.
I mean, he was, so in some sense, the father of the five
year plans and in terms of doing large-scale Nation scale, serve
base, so it was spot on and that's the and we are still
following that his legacy. In terms of continuing.
I mean not to The Five-Year plans, but definitely with the
national sample survey and similar large surveys that we
conduct. Yep.
Okay.
So, and then, like, while I is high in Calcutta was like, kind
of importing its computers, it was doing its cats.
Like, I guess the other big scientific Institute in India
that time was our Indian Institute of Science in
Bangalore. So what was happening, there
was, was there some statistics work done there or like, was
there some introduction to what? We now know, as analytics, that
was kind of Happening there and so on.
You know, so this is pretty interesting because the Indian
Institute of science was at that time, obviously the leader in
player in Science, Education in the country, but they were also
getting pretty big on Engineering in the fifties.
Okay. So India, newly independent and
then required these Engineers to kind of, you know, to to to to
ensure that some of the big projects are India was
undertaking at that. In time, in terms of building,
physical infrastructure, the electrical infrastructure and
things like that, where required Manpower required research and
Indian Institute of science is playing a big role there and
India sort of things obviously from its its founding days
always attracted a lot of foreign faculty who come and
spend a year or two, teaching it at The Institute.
So in 1954 55 it had a You know, electrical engineering Professor
from Wisconsin, Professor ride out.
So right out apparently came to Bangalore with with the reams of
paper with with a whole set of pencils and pens and erasers
because he was not sure about what was available in Bangalore
and if it was available how long, or how many he could buy?
Okay, so that's an interesting story about about Professor ride
out, but he got something very interesting.
Probably for the first time in India was that he got a
transistor and offline? Okay.
So the 74 ones that we were all used to, in our College lab
site. So 741, but not in integrated
circuit, but at the transistor, yep, so he got that along and
one of the Masters students. There Raja Ramen work with him
and they built an analog circuit using the APA, which could solve
leader. Friendly questions.
Okay. So an analog circuit where you
could look at the readings of the meter and then, and then,
you know, figure out that what the solution to the linear.
Differential equation was pretty complicated, but that's what it
will mean. It's like, you know, it's a it's
a it's a 7 8 foot high board and about for sorry eight feet high
and about the four feet. Okay, that was how it was.
And after Professor wrote left. He left the transistor back and
Raja Ramen added the the nonlinear differential circuits
also, so it was actually a pretty neat fishy.
They were a couple of for PhD students who use this analog
computer to complete their calculations on things like, you
know, vibrations of columns in civil engineering.
Cheering. Okay.
All right, in terms of calculating transients, which
are nothing but sudden spikes in AC current.
So these guys actually use the computer to do these things.
So here you have a context of an engineering analytics.
Yep, because previously people, you know, use the electrical
calculators or mechanical calculators to do it.
And now you have a machine, which could be, you know, which
could be kind of plugged in the circuit.
Would, you know, would be your problem with Duh be sorted.
So this probably was the first time when, when India was using
analytic X to solve engineering problems.
That 50 years old, more than 50 years old using analytics
resolved. Yeah, but yeah.
Mid 50's. Yes, and how far behind we
compared to? Let's say the Western countries
in terms of the use of analytics for engineering problems, are
things like that back room. This was a time.
Okay. So the use of of digital
computers to solve to solve engineering problems, was just
fist towards the end of the second world war.
And, and the first problem which was solved was probably the
projectile problem. Yeah.
So so if I'm having a poet sir, kind of a gun, so, where would
my buy ammunition land? Given different kinds of wind
velocities and different directions?
Okay, so previously these, you know, the soldiers used to carry
a booklet. We'll choose to do which is to
have all the calculations with them.
Okay, and it was done by hand and not very accurate.
So this computer could do it for different models of these hope
to sell guns and it could be, it could be made into a booklet are
given to these soldiers. So that is the probably the
first real life from Pure salt. So this is the e meac at the
University of Pennsylvania. So, yep.
So, okay. So it happened in the mid 40s.
Early mid 40. So in India, we were using this
in the 50s. So we weren't that far behind.
You think about it? Take a technology because of his
know, how so we were you know, we weren't lacking back by that
many years at all. Okay.
Okay.
So I think like the way I look at it like we are looking at all
the sort of the eminent scientific institutes in India.
Like he started off with is a then we move to a see now TFR
and we see that all of them have Sort of laid their own big Parts
in in sort of furthering analytics, as we now call it a
me like back then, all nobody bothered calling it analytics.
So with, and then what happened? Where does the story go?
Right? So a couple of interesting
stories before I kind of want to the next, you know, the next
phase. So the person who who, you know,
be mentioned and I see Raja Ramen.
Yeah, he went on to do a Steve u.s.
Came back as a young faculty in IIT kanpur yet and he was a
faculty in charge of the center in IIT.
Kanpur. Yep, and he was the person who
started the first M Tech electrical engineering with a
specialization in computer science.
Okay, and he was the person who started the first PTEC program
in computer science of India. It can't put a 1978.
Okay? Okay, so there is a connect
between Radha, Raman, and a lot of things that it doesn't end
there. So one of the students in the
1978 batch of, for the first batch of computer science at IIT
kanpur was a young kid called Rajeev motwani.
Okay, so forget it is a PhD in Berkeley.
Yes, Stanford and co-wrote a paper on pagerank algorithm, the
third of students and stand for and you know who they are and
grillin page. And then he was a board member
at Google. And when we talk about analytics
in the current Instead of the companies that are leaders and,
you know, the big politics, that's like, you know, what
planet scale and stuff like that.
It's obviously Google. So there is a bit of a India
connection there. So, and I think the Moto an
eclair tragically passed away a few years back.
I think he had Yes actually reading.
So, both more 20 and rather. I mean, I think I had prescribed
text by them during my btech in computer science.
I think there was a elements of oh, yeah.
Computers that regimen had written, which was our yes, 64,
our introduction to commute Computing.
The course for all the students at IIT Madras like the that was
at the nobody bothered to buy the book but there was a
Prosthetics and then, like, we had some, I'll go books by more
20 and I forget to who the co-authors were later on the
right. So right.
Yeah, so they're Doyle's of computer or education.
I mean, Roger Amin is literally the person who also who were So
gave a give the government a report which essentially said
that we need to start this program called an MCA.
So if you're looking at these lacks of MCAS your oh, yeah,
coming out of India universities.
They all have to thank Professor other up.
Well, okay. Okay, it's some days.
It's interesting. When you go back, how the origin
stories are somehow. There's constricted right?
There are a few key people here in there.
Whose names sort of pop up all over the place or people they
have been associated with David. Have created an impact.
Like you mentioned, you mentioned more 20 and people
like that and so on sure. Yeah, and it's fascinating
because the, the first batch of btech in kanpur.
Yep. They said that the overall
strength of B Tech is a constant, right?
Okay. So Raja Ram a literally had to
go and beg his colleagues. Hey, give me one seed from your
department. Give me two seats from your
department and that's why it started off with about 20 seats
slightly less than that. Okay?
And very soon. Into the to the bewilderment of
the other faculty. Computer science is attracting
the best of the best. So, yep.
So any other sort of famous names from that batch is apart
from more 28. Is there anyone like who?
Okay, so mode 1 e is definitely one person there, but then more
to Honey, wasn't the PGM from that patch.
Okay, so that the PGM from that batch is a bangle, Orion Cinema.
As prachanda, who's a faculty at replied Phoebe.
So he went to what wani went to Berkeley and Persona went to MIT
and Bell labs and his Peyton's probably powered.
I don't know a few hundred million a billion dollars of
revenue for Bell labs, and he's a bag Orion and works at apply T
be so. Okay.
So so my glorious can be proud. So very interesting, which is a
very, very interesting. Okay.
Now, Now that we now let's come back to the story.
We were talking about, I think we spoke about Raja Ram in, in
the IAC context, when he was a master student.
Then we spoke over here. But and then where did it go?
Where it first analytics and related stuff.
Go. Okay.
So so far we've talked about these researchy and Academia
stuff like that, right? Yeah, so computers and they are
used in the 1960s for doing grunt work.
And what's the grunt work was payroll processing through the
jute Mills? Okay.
So it's interesting because people would ask why jute Mills
because in Most states route Mill workers had to be paid on a
weekly basis, and if not, they would be stripes and the strike
would go on for nothing less than a couple of weeks or a
month. So the owners of the journals
wanted to ensure that payrolls processed correctly and on time
and the IBM, guys would process it in a centralized Center at
the end of the week. They would go and give it The
Jew till a judgment and they would use pay the workers.
Right? So it was just doing basic
arithmetic stuff. You're doing it correctly.
Yes, the first instance of some analytics, kind of work, or an
interesting decision. Work was done by the PSU
steelman's. Okay, and there was an IBM for,
you know, 1501, which was used to schedule production of Of the
offer type of skin based on the demand and Analysis of the
demand was done. And then a production schedule
was, was formulated using the 1401 machine.
I've, you know, one machine. So this was probably the first
time when there was a decision that was made help offer
computer or or you know, modern analytics, if you can call it at
that point in time, so it was born analytics and 1960s will be
different from but this is the first instance.
And our model was hit to determine what kind of
production mix would be there. The steel factories climbing.
So this is the mid-sixties. Okay?
Yeah. So so or was this coming to to,
you know, coming into mainstream in the US as well at this point
and time. Yeah, and they were obviously
folks, you know, from India who would travel to us for Are doing
their higher studies and phds especially in management schools
and an industrial engineering schools that point in time.
So couple of them where where one is kanodia and Justin Patel,
they join a division of Tata Sons called tecs Tata
consultancy services. So it was an internal unit
Roofing work for for their own group companies for Tata Sons,
you know, companies. So, these guys said that.
Hey now, I think we can also expand our our Target to
companies outside of the outside of the Tata group and we have,
you know, we can do multiple stuff.
We can do management consulting, we can do it Consulting.
We can also do some TurnKey work by using computers, and then
giving just see the results to the customers.
And, you know, I looked at one of the brochures at that point.
Bye. So 19 early 1968.
This is a time and mr. Coley hadn't joined TCS.
Okay. So this was just a very nascent
young Bunch there. So I'm just reading of one
particular sentence from that brochure early 1968.
So it says that the scientific approach.
The direction of data, there are analysis and a deep
understanding of the mechanics of business that result from a
study. All contribute to making
business decisions, less uncertain or at least to remove
some of the uncertainty in the mind of the decision-maker.
And then it continues to say since the number of alternative
choices in a decision process can be very large, a computer
comes in very handy in providing fast and accurate answers.
So, this is a 1968 and if you could just you know, change the
language a little bit, it can be used in any brochure today.
I can use it today. I can totally use it to me right
now. I don't need to, I don't need to
sell the you. Computers to anyone.
So I, but if I had to, I mean, I would, I would definitely use
this is now extremely forward-thinking, right?
Yeah, so it's fascinating. It's fascinating to see how, you
know, these guys were really pioneers and, you know, trying
to convince Indian companies to use or use analytics.
And, you know, and also in some sense pushing the use of
computers. So one interesting, you know,
connection here, is that young statistical power.
Out of this group. The CC is group.
Okay. So his name was Kara smoothie.
Okay, so that was part of the group and rings, the bell,
right? So care is moved.
He does some interesting stuff. He goes and gets his master's
from MIT a PhD from Harvard Business, School comes back
joins as faculty of IMM, but but the most interesting thing was
that he comes as a director of IIM Bangalore in 1992.
Okay, and he chips and Tatian of IIM Bangalore from a second.
All public sector. Focus to a typical be school in
terms of management functional Focus, right?
And I am banknote becomes the first be school last year to
launch an MBA and analytics. Yep.
Yes. So so it's it's a small
connection between the TC is of the late 60s and then the modern
Olympics, education in India. Yeah.
Okay, so I am be the First, first one to launch this in the
formula billion analytics, right?
It's not like one of these sort of a short-term courses.
It is. No, it's not a certificate
program. Know it's a two-year MBA
full-time and it's a specialization analytics.
Oh, okay. It is very, very interesting.
Okay. Now, let's assume.
So you mentioned that, TC yourself marketed is use of
analytics, use of our Industries and so on.
But back then we were a sort of a highly controlled economy.
And so, and so was there, but demand for this from other You
thought, because the returns to efficiency was not very high
rate. So yeah, so see they were doing
pretty interesting work. But obviously, you know, if you
have a supply constraint in terms licence Raj.
Yeah, and there's only so much that unleaded methods can do
advising, you know, textile mills or now.
What is the most profitable blend of Orton that you can use
for your product line and they were Advising, you know,
transmission companies in terms of where they eat to locate
Lawtons Mission Towers. Yep, so and they were doing
obviously, some sales forecasting for Consumer
durables, and quite a few of these companies where, like, you
know, Tomko was they do their own good company?
Yeah, Tata electric was also, there's so the Mills were
obviously Calico but a few other means which pair, which better
third-party companies as well. So they could, you know, do some
cool work at that point in time. Was not only TCS.
There was also another interesting company at this
time, which was doing these are latex work which was called
operations research group. It was a companies founded in 61
based in Baroda founded by none, other than becomes Arabic.
Okay. So becomes our Rabbi is, you
know, kind of a polymath Amelia. It's got his hands and in right
from the Indian space programme to possibly create a search to
PRL physical Laboratories. Yep, and you know, so he he
started this to ensure that the the industries in Gujarat,
especially the the exciting Industries and the chemical
Industries chemical and Pharma Industries had a good grounding
in scientific management to make their decisions.
Okay. So so this was started in Baroda
of all places and and obviously the connection between o RG
become tarah by is I am I'm double.
Yep. So yes, so, you know, at some
time in the early Genesis time of the first few years of IMM.
The body was a lot of interaction between IMM the bath
and Hua ji. Okay, and I am debarred, the
incidentally is the first be school in India to get your.
So they want to computer on the late 60s.
It was the HP to 1160 which was a tabletop computer.
It wasn't me. A computer at that time.
Okay, very nice machine and motivation.
Was that half the school? Had this computer.
So horrible, so I am a set that up.
Let's get this computer for brilliant, for, for I met was
the was the person who got it. And the computer center manager
for this HD 2116 be was none other than a gentleman called.
Narayana Murthy. And are not okay that explains
today and he said, he was the need to view of his on TV on.
Canada used to hide their, he spoke about going to another,
but after his graduation from, from IIT kanpur to, but he
didn't explain. What work.
He did it. I am a so we'll see will setting
the computer center there. Okay, very for me.
It is also when sort of like in some sense, big kick started
coming into India rate. Like I've been t.i., I think
opened their office in India in 81 if I'm not wrong.
And so so I guess like Analytics.
It's also in terms of like offshoring and like, the working
for Western companies that also would have started around the
same time. Yeah, no, you just spot-on.
So this is still continuing with the with the Rajiv Gandhi.
Peace. When he became the Prime
Minister. He was, you know, he was a
person who made a couple of visits quick visits to the in
quick succession to the US. So, he went to Paris late
privately 87, if I'm not mistaken, so, we had the great
rapper with President Reagan and the relationship between India
and the, you can't talk. So this was also the time and
from, you know, from the early 80s, I think there was a lot
more action, you know, of the American MNC is in India, and
then they knew that India was a, you know, was a friendly place
to do business and things like that.
So so one company, which is present in India, but was had a
very small operation was the AmEx, the retail bank.
Yeah, right. So in 1983, they decided to
start. Are there are cards division in
India also, like all good American Banks, they recruited
folks for the, you know, for marketing, the cards and also
for the back and processing. And these, you know, and they
recruited some pretty smart folks, including one person by
name Robin drawing for their processing of credit cards.
So he was a chartered accountant and And you know, so so the
number of Chartered Accountants at the back end card processing
in in a mix grew and very soon. They were just not doing the
routine processing that you would do for a car but also
doing some interesting stuff like Risk and credit analytics
and stuff like that. So this impress the the the the
folks in HQ, okay, because they were getting some, some super
quality work done. 50% of the cost.
So, sometime in the mid 80s, late 80s makes back office in
India in Delhi was doing all the back office.
Look for a mix cuss in the APAC region.
Okay. So that was probably the first
time that this, you know, the whole concept of, of a back
office from India started off and And one of the things that
that happened in the prime minister's visit to the US was
that was that he supposed to have met up with Jack Welch of
GE and obviously Jack Wills wanted to sell more into India
and some of the advisers of the Prime Minister, including Sam's
it protons are. And I'm a supposed to have told
them that hey, you know, that's nice.
But why don't you also pick up some software services from us
from India? Yep, so that was a time in He
decided to go offshore to India and and the beneficiary, is
there all the Indian it companies at that time,
including TCS imposes that Pro. So, so G was pretty impressed
with the kind of work that was getting done out of India and
the kind of quality levels and the kind of folks working on
their projects and decided that by 1997.
They decided that they should come.
Amin and start their own subsidiary in India.
So this is pretty interesting. Right?
So IIT is considered not as core as business processes.
Yeah, so they were happy. Outsourcing it2 Indian service
providers, but they decided to set up the captive to primarily
do their business processes work.
So we're their own, you know, company's data would land here
and people will be working on on that.
Yep. So they started off.
BPO routine kind of stuff like, you know, transaction
processing, and Ledger's and accounting, and things like
that. And and then they decided that
what else can we do to Europe? If you're happy doing all the
stuff and and they wanted to figure out what else they could
do. And in 1998, they decided to
start their analytics division, which was essentially - print
decision-making. Yep, and They figured out that
maybe we could try you're doing that and India in a small way.
So so this required a lot of quantitative skills and stuff
like that. So like, you know, we saw
earlier. So where do you go for
statistics? It is is I and they apparently
event first wire side LED. That is I Calcutta and I've got
a few folks from there. They went to Delhi School of
Economics. Got a few folks from there.
Yes, and you know then, I think they did something pretty
interesting. So, they asked the the sales
office of couple of products that we're used to do these, you
know, statistical calculations SAS is one of them and SPS was
so SPSS. Is another penis.
Yep, the awesome. So, where do you?
Yeah, where do you sell sell? Sell these where you sell your
software, which colleges universities by it?
Okay, so Steve is supposed to, you know, got a reply that I am
so my, you know, some of our packages.
So they get to the IMF. They figure out the the fpm star
king and on these packages. And and so the Requiem from the
MS into their analytics centers. So that was the Genesis of
analytics in Jake is so it stands for GE Capital
International services in 1998. So they were the first captive
to do analytics work in the in India.
So they were doing some cool work for all.
They do companies GE. See what Finance you body, g
capital D commercial Finance, predictive risk modeling,
supply-demand intelligence and whatnot.
So yeah, some cool stuff. It would have been probably
during your time at IMB that like they started like these
analytics. Firms started hiring from their
MJ's. Like Jake is yes.
First for the am sending for pcbs and guessing.
Right, so, you know, so it was the there was so much of a
demand for people who knew SPSS and SAS is that, you know, they
were in, you know, people were, you know, you know, okay, even
if you put work, part-time. Okay, does it really not getting
folks who knew some of the methods, as well as the tools
that point and time. So yeah, that was the time when
it all started with the Jake is so this against another
interesting thing is that this was a time when when the word
kpo came into play. Yes.
This is actually a report by eval you serve so which kind of
combined the analytics and and some of the secondary market
research and in general, you know secondary research that you
do to put up slides and reports and things.
Like that. Or that God bundled into one
larger segment called kpo? I mean, people understood BPO.
Okay, po became a an easy thing with specially for investors and
and finds to understand. Yeah.
So the largest segment was obviously the secondary
research, secondary research, that was getting done.
And the second largest segment was analytics, but it was the
fastest growing and it was also probably the most profitable of
the segments. Okay.
So after this is, so the so who came in After Jake is so after
Jake is severe. You know, they were three
typical threads that were happening.
Okay. So one was that with Jake is in
the mid-2000s was divested Shoji divested.
Jake is in the think it was about 2005.
Yeah, I became genpact and private Equity bought bought
them over. Yep.
So at this point in time the IT service providers felt that
okay. We have We moved into BPO and
now let's move into something, which is, you know, which is
higher margin than vp0, which is unlit exert versus.
Yeah, so, because they saw that, you know, that Jake is which was
a captive and and so that probably, it's not a score as
what it was and some of the analytics stuff, probably could
be outsourced. Yes.
So the, the, the IT services guys gotten and the jealous and
the Genesis of the team. If you look at it in all the IT
service providers, they're all folks who are moving out of Jake
is Jetpack. Yeah, so they were the guys were
Staffing the, the these these IT services companies.
They were also, you know, a few startups in the early 2000s.
One was a company based out of Delhi called Market RX yet.
So, which was essentially working into marketing
analytics, and little bit of I think healthcare Life Sciences
are not mistaken. They got picked up by cognizant.
Yeah, and the other one was a was a bankroll based company
called Market X which was smaller and they were again into
marketing analytics. So they were based out of been
drawn ogre. And they got picked up by.
Yeah, nwsl in the W. WN s?
Yeah, which yeah, excellent. WLS was, you know, merged.
So it's pretty interesting because I was living in in
Grenada at that time. And so Evenings.
I used to take a jog. I mean, it's traffic wasn't bad
at all. So I would take a jog, the
evenings and then drop by at, you know, at, you know, a beer
place which had a, which had Iyengar Bakery also, so the guy
used to give me the cuffs and so used to be, you know, having my
dear and my puff and used to be some of these guys from Market,
excuse to land up there at these to be discussing and things like
that. So I don't get one.
Meaning, when, you know, I just used to listen and that's it.
So I just used to, you know, log off, but I think they were
making some some, you know, pretty ridiculous statements
about using cluster analysis to solve something.
I just couldn't, you know, poured myself.
So I sweated told them that both don't use cluster for this.
Use discriminant analysis. So this is going to, you know,
so they were like, I mean, who's this bugger with a beer bottle
coming and telling us what kind of should do?
Mendel video job. So the dim did they were very
curious to know. You know, how do I do all these
things? And you know was I working for
tickets or something and they were first a little bit paranoid
about this. I told them that don't know who
I am when, you know, it guy working for enforces and stuff
like that. And then they said, okay, I add
this guy's a harmless guy and all that stuff, but they were
very intrigued about how I knew about all these things.
Okay, so I had to tell them then and then you know how things go
and India, right? So there's like one guy said,
Sir, I will come every evening here.
Please. Let me know by that I'm doing
the right thing. So it was pretty hilarious.
So anyways, I think those were heady times.
Yep. So the I think I'd say that word
time. I think I had applied for a job
to marketing's at some point in time.
And then like I did the st. Near test which was full of
marketing. Jargon.
And so I get I called up the HR inside like a naughty things
forward because this reminds me. A of the, of the things that
that, you know, the physics guys do, right.
So, they talk physics to the math, guys.
I think it's something that, that, that happens analytics.
You talk domain to the guys who, you know, that's not understand
the domain. And then you talk stats to the
guys who understand the debate. So actually what I found is that
it at least in my career over the last 10 years.
What I found is that like it's easier to talk.
I mean while if you want to sound impressive or to do some
kind of suit sales then like it might make sense to talk the
other thing, but I think I'm This is what I found in the last
10 years. Is that like you just talk to
this language to talk Tech to The Tech Guy in business to the
business day and so on. But but yeah, I guess different
people have their own strategies so its own right, right.
Oh, but by the way, so this is one.
More startup has been. It still continues fractal
analytics. So I think they started off as
analytics partner for HDFC Bank. Okay, and they still are a dozen
analytics company. So they kind of, you know, stood
you know with the Since they were also a couple of similar
companies, one was people research, which I think got
picked up by ICICI once or something.
And I think there's another one which will Casilla, which was
down yellow. They were a few of the rules are
being. So just to say that they were
you know, annalistic services companies focused on the
domestic Market as well. So, yep and like fractal, I
guess the other big one in that segment is music man, which yes,
which again continues are too. Right, right?
2004-5. They started and mu Sigma was
the worst was the, you know, it's an interesting, you know,
case study for me, because they were the guys who actually
scaled up big time yet. Right.
So you don't want keeps hearing about how the Indian IT services
provider, scaled up in the late 90s and early 2000s.
So I think you Sigma did that in the analytic space.
So they are a very formalized training in there.
You know, they called it. I think the new Sigma University
or music back. To me.
And then they would be, don't get these fritters and of both
from their distant schools and then convert them into this,
unlit explore festivals. So in in you know, some of the
notables and in the financial services domain, referral T.
So sometime in the late 2000s, doing marketing analytics,
customer acquisition lifecycle management cross-sell or upsell
and things like that, then you had gold.
When Goldman was known for its fraud analytics and those kinds
of, you know, a lot takes of domains.
Yep, then HSBC, again a lot of marketing analytics, our
computer, you know, Hardware makers, HP and Dell for the
sales and I'll take so casting. Yep.
Then you had retailers like Target that we're doing things
from merchandising forecasting, inventory management, system
management, and of course at the I think companies like L Brands,
I think would be pretty popular on the campus, doing marketing
analytics and among their brands is, you know, the famous
Victoria Secret. So, so all of them doing some
interesting analytics here, so that's the captors.
And then we have Indian companies also getting big on
analytics. But but hul, I mean, is, is an
outlier here, because even in the laity, 80s and 90s.
Yeah, I doing. What was what they called as
Market insights. Okay.
It was nothing but pretty Advanced, you know, quantitative
marketing research. So they had a team from the from
the 90s but through a lot faster and bigger in the 2000s and PNG
created in in the analytics. Eoe Singapore.
So quite a few folks. From India, moved to PNG
Singapore to be about analytics. Co e 3F C among the you know
prior Bank started off with analytics division or to incur
add analytics and marketing analytics.
They were pretty, you know, pretty big gone undertakes in
the 2000's. So 2001.
I remember that in the Indian campuses, the be food purposes.
There was, I am be Capital One for the US operations recruited.
Use analytics operations, recruited a few folks.
And it was a big thing because, you know, at that, at that time,
one of the popular case studies was that the Capital One could
decide within a minute. What whether to give, you know,
the prospect a credit card or not.
Yep, and if yes, what was the credit limit for that for that
Prospect? Yep, so it was good to see, you
know, some folks from from my MBE travel to do is to work for
the Capital One. And this interesting, you know,
the interesting connection there.
So one of the guys who got picked up to work in Capital One
came back, worked in Jen, back in the symphony genpact and the
and then in 2010, God of God, of War has started a training
company called zigzoo. Okay, so this was probably the
first company in India to focus on training folks on Analytics.
Okay, so I think their first course, was was something on on
doing analytics with SAS. So they realize that, you know,
we have to teach folks the concepts of the methods of
analytics and also focus on the tools and tools as I say as
because that was probably the market leader, at that time.
Yep. Yep.
So, this was a 2010 and 2008-9 was not a great year for Indian
it right based. No?
See. Action, so this is the, you
know, the software Engineers with maybe up to 45 years
experience thinking that really continue the ID path or whether
the a to do something else. So these kinds of programs gave
them the to move from ID into analytics and that is against
the propelled. A lot of people into the lake
mid-career. It people started doing these
courses to the hope of shifting into and the technique is
obviously and Sort of at some level to your paid better than
software, engineering X10. Yes.
I think. I mean, I remember, you know, an
analysis where for the company at least.
So this would have been say mid 2000s or something that time
frame. I think it was a pretty high,
remember the numbers because it's easy to remember or not
because you have anything else. So BP over something like you is
the 20K per annum. Okay?
Was the Of Revenue per employee. And IIT was about 40K, per annum
and analytic to 60k per annum. Okay, so the a bit of for, for
analytics, which is, you know, upwards of 30% or something.
So it was a, you know, it was definitely, you know, it works
both ways. So since the companies were
getting a, you know, a higher Revenue per capita, so they
could also offer to pay you slightly more than I guess.
The Other two streams. Yep.
And even now I find Direct like I mean like cover as well as in
when I recruit for analytics. I find that like you find
mid-career software Engineers would have done a course in
analytics looking to jump into one because it's the same 40K
260k kind of jump, whatever you translate that to it did sell
these now and things like that. I guess.
Let's change that's a little bit.
Now. I just want to understand from
you like what analytics for business professionals are like
In India, like a in terms of like, dude.
I don't know how much work you have done in terms of like,
comparing analytics people in India to elsewhere into on or if
you could like, how were like, how do you characterize the
analytics professionals? Like, how do they work?
And like, is that how is that different from?
That's a, like, software engineering or their
counterparts abroad and so on. See, so this is based on my
interactions with folks who've been working in analytics for
the past 20 years. It's at least.
Yep. Okay.
So the first, you know, thing that, that that strikes me with
these guys is that they are comfortable with the domain.
I mean, it could be that, you know, they are in cpg or FM
CTS-V call it. If they would be comfortable in
that industry and they would be comfortable with The methods,
the, you know, the market research methods or the
operations management methods, you are statistical methods and
they would be comfortable using tools.
Yep, you know, essay as well. They want to our and stuff like
that, right? So they are at ease.
Yep. The the other one that I've
observed with them is that tell this probably might be a
difference between the folks who are just coming.
Into the profession. And folks of in around, is that
these guys are very parsimonious in terms of the independent
variables. Okay.
So they do some kind of an, you know, some heuristics intuition
and then they figure out that okay, you know, I know that I'm
collecting, you know, these these 70 or variables.
Well, I think these 15 are the ones that need to go into my
model. Okay?
Okay, because I know that the You know how these 15 can at?
He's directionally impact the dependent variable.
And so, okay. This is what it's going to be.
I don't want to crowd my model with the rest of the the 70
plus. Okay, so maybe this is changing
when you use machine learning and stuff like that, but I'm
talking about a traditional statistical methods.
Okay, so these folks use analytics even when they need
not use, Latex or pathway where there is no expectation for
them. Use analytics.
So I know folks in management consulting who do a lot of
number crunching, but this smart enough not to not to put these
stuff in a deliverable slide, but they present this in nice
pictorial form or in two by twos.
Okay, so I think there are so, so I think that for some folks,
you know, they were not be analytics folks, but they are
doing Analytics and it's probably a state of mind a frame
of mind so which I find pretty interesting.
And then finally, I think there are a lot of folks who are who
are related to the previous point.
Is that closet and latex professionals?
Okay, so they are not working analytics, departments.
So they are working in sales marketing.
They working is, as leadership guys.
They're working as a supply chain.
But I caught there on the attic space.
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