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If I'm going to show something 
to you, that is having a lot of 

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information may be valuable 
information, but you have 

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difficulty in understanding it, 
right? 

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If you have that difficulty for 
more than 57 seconds, you'll 

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lose your interest and you'll 
walk straight into another 

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Community. 
More like nostalgic. 

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Gives you a feeling that 
something was nicer back in long

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time ago or something like that 
and using that as a compliment. 

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I try to feed into people that 
your city is not That bad, but 

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you can convert it into 
something that tastes better. 

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Hello and welcome to data. 
Shatter the podcast on all 

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things data. 
This podcast is a series of 

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conversations with experts and 
Industry leaders in data. 

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And each week. 
We aim to unpack a different 

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compartment of the data. 
Guess I'm your host. 

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Karthik chassis that I'm a 
blogger newspaper. 

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Columnist book, author and a 
former data and sadly conceited 

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at currently head, analytics and
business intelligence for 

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delivery. 
One of India's largest logistics

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companies. 
You can follow me on Twitter at 

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Karthik s that is Kar thi KS and
read my blog at no Intruder.com.

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That is n 0e. 
N th you be a Dot-com all 

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opinions explicitly spot that's 
belong to me. 

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And I thought Cash basis and I 
do not reflect the views of any 

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organizations. 
We might be Associated, nothing 

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discussing this podcast, should 
be taken as can achieve from 

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your letters. 
In this edition of data chatter,

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we will talk about maps. 
Maps are excellent devices for 

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telling stories, think of the 
maps you see around election 

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time that show which parties won
seats where in fact the 

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first-ever scatter plot. 
Dr. Jon Snow's figure of called 

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are cases in London, was 
essentially a map or think of 

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the famous map of Napoleon's 
invasion of Russia, which Edward

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tough calls as one of the best 
infographics ever. 

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Telling stories through Maps is 
an exercise in data science 

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data, overlaid on maps. 
Can tell really powerful 

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stories. 
And as we learn in today's 

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conversation, the process of 
mapping is no different from the

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process of data science. 
Our Guest is large, but that 

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polygamy or as he calls himself 
mapper for Life, Raj works for 

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the World Resources Institute 
India where he leads projects on

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Urban Development water 
resources and transport in this 

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conversation that talks about 
His journey into mapping how he 

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makes his maps and how WWE 
influences the way he tells his 

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stories. 
It's all I know you because of 

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your maps on Twitter, primarily.
I mean, you keep posting these 

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nice maps from time to time. 
So I also like on your Twitter 

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handle, you have something that 
says mapper for life or 

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something. 
So, can you take me through your

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career Journey? 
Like what caught your attention 

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and how did you get interested 
in mapping? 

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So with respect to the journey? 
Actually, I was I know Maps and 

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geospatial Analysis. 
Since my childhood. 

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I am one of those black guys who
got to work in the same field 

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where he knew, I had the 
ambition Store working. 

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So I think when I was maybe six 
or seven, I think I drew my 

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first back, it was on a wall and
I still remember it. 

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Most probably goes on, it was 
that from. 

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So I used to travel a lot 
between my hometown and their 

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maternal grandmother's town and 
I used to draw the maps. 

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Of those places in defeat them, 
simulate traffic, etc. 

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Etc. 
So I also like to be, I actually

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I'm in my parents and everybody 
encouraged it since childhood 

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and then I got formally educated
in the same eventually. 

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I'd landed jobs in the same 
field. 

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So basically geography and stuff
around that the, my interest and

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passion for so long. 
And the right after that after 

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the formal education, and 
Jennifer Mattox. 

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I think I began to because the 
professional. 

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So yeah, for the last time, As 
I've been working on the 

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professional Antelope mapmaking 
and they were so that is the 

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journey. 
So if just to add, I mean 

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probably in the last 34 years, 
maybe I had started posting and 

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Twitter after getting inspired 
by other social media accounts, 

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like, you know, the amateur 
weather blog has actually they 

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inspired me a lot and ever since
that I began posting a lot of 

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maps. 
I thought why, why is, you know,

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beautiful maps and stuff like 
that? 

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I've been putting in my 
computer. 

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I thought everyone can enjoy it,
so, Began chatting it. 

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And I take lot of Inspirations 
and cues from, you know, other 

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Industries a lot. 
So for example, like Peter 

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tagline, you said my part for 
like it's a ripoff of leathery. 

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I take a lot of cues from this 
link so it comes from that. 

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So I take a lot of inspiration 
from those from Tamil movies 

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everywhere. 
I see, you know, something that 

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is interesting. 
I just remember it and probably 

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it reflects in my maps at some 
point. 

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Awesome. 
Awesome. 

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Thirdly. 
So let's get to the mapping 

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itself. 
Dive in like so let me tell you 

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where I come from. 
So I am fundamentally a data 

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guy. 
So I got into Maps through data 

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visualization. 
So I'm not into maps. 

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I mean, I I'm not into GIS and 
things like that, but I do from 

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time to time sort of like use 
shapefiles in sort of building 

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maps for for whatever purpose, 
right? 

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Like right now I head analytics 
for a large logistics company, 

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but earlier I used to be a 
freelance consultant, which 

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means I have always been like 
making lots of diagrams and some

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of them sometimes if you show 
that Things on a map. 

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It can sort of look nice and 
things like that and give the 

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sort of message that I otherwise
it cannot give its own. 

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So to start off with, can you 
tell me the process that you 

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follow when you sort of so 
you'll be a when you design one 

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of your Maps? 
So for example, where does the 

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motivation for the map come 
from? 

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Do you start with the data or 
the map itself, or do you start 

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with some question thinking? 
Maybe I should look into this 

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today. 
And so can you maybe you could 

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use some examples, but can you 
take me through? 

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process that you follow when you
sort of create your Maps, Sure, 

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so maps are actually the final 
stage of the entire process. 

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So usually I have a four-step 
process. 

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I call it. 
The four steps of a proper 

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genetics. 
So the first one is to define 

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the purpose. 
First, like, what are you trying

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to do? 
And what kind of analysis that 

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you want to tell? 
What kind of story you want to 

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do? 
And who are the, who is your 

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audience and those kind of 
questions? 

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So those kind of fundamental 
questions like what are you 

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trying to achieve with the work 
that you're going to do for the 

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next? 
You didn't write so that would 

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be the first step that is 
identifying the purpose. 

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The second is actually the 
science behind it. 

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So, I mean that's where the data
comes in. 

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Right? 
So we start to look at. 

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We have a concept. 
Let's assume that let's say, I 

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want to map something about 
literacy or something like that.

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So close this. 
I want to tell people story 

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about late. 
Let's say the geographical 

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variation of interest rate. 
So that is the purple and the 

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second is the science. 
When I say science. 

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It comes into the data. 
I mean, close with the 

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availability of data do. 
We have that data, whether 

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whether it is able to answer the
questions that I was thinking 

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about and if it has to be 
processed what kind of process 

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that it has to go through and 
those kind of things. 

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So science actually is the 
backbone for the entire thing 

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and it takes a lot of sometimes.
I sit and digitize stuff for so 

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long just to get, you know, 
basically I'm a playing we are 

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trying to represent the ground 
reality, right? 

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So as if yeah, so it has to be 
as strong as possible if the 

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data is hot. 
From the data, the science is 

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not strong. 
Then what your whatever we are 

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going to produce going to the 
garbage. 

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So that is where I spent a lot 
of time. 

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Usually that, that is the second
step. 

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That is the science part of it. 
The third is the technology one 

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that is program or software that
we use or whatever it is that, 

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you know, that facilitates the 
entire business, it can speed up

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the work but the but it is not 
the major work but knowledge of 

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that could be very helpful. 
So the concept we have to 

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concentrate on what technology 
that we use, actually that. 

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Is very important because it's 
not just about time-saving but 

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also sometimes what kind of 
product that comes out of it 

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will be dependent on that kind 
of choice. 

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So that is the third part, which
is technology and the final one 

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is the art. 
So that's where you see the 

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product. 
That is the map. 

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I mean that is when the audience
come to sleep. 

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So I might have done a lot of 
research on the science part. 

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A lot of time. 
I mean it will be taking 90 

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percentage of the time and then 
I would be thinking about how do

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I convey the information that 
I've done, right? 

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So basically your Apis map is a 
story that is having a 

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geographical or spatial 
component Rick. 

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So you are going to tell the 
story to a person who has never 

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seen a map or sometimes. 
They might have seen Maps, but 

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they don't understand lots of 
places or something like that. 

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But for this kind of an 
audience, how are you going to 

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tell that story? 
Like, for example, the cross 

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sectional view of South India 
that was there. 

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Not that was produced. 
So basically, I want to tell 

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people that ran low risk in a 
higher elevation. 

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That was one of the purpose, and
I want to tell them that. 

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On both sides, you have eastern 
ghats and western ghats and they

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have not necessarily be very big
Market. 

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They have Justice Captain 
switch, you know, so in the 

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middle you have a plaque to you 
and then pour the site you're 

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happy. 
And you know, it goes down very 

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quickly. 
And so I wanted to tell that 

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story and if that is the story 
in the back end, I was working 

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with a lot of data. 
How, what kind of data, how 

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should I present data? 
And then there, I was looking at

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what technology is because what 
software is used for clipping 

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it? 
What? 

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Excited elevation visualization.
Everything will be there on the 

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background. 
And finally, I decide on the 

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colors and I try to make it as 
easy and understandable as 

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possible. 
So when I was a kid, I used to 

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love Max with lot of markings, 
you know, everything I want to 

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show it to them. 
But now I understand, not 

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Everyone likes that kind. 
We have to get that concept, the

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story to the folks. 
So from that perspective that So

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our map is Big. 
What is the Journey of learning 

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a map? 
The map is just the product when

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I try to tell the research that 
I have already done. 

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So that that's where it is. 
And for with respect to where I 

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start actually is on both sides.
First this I will be working on 

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a purpose, of course work my 
official work as well as my 

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personal work. 
I have lots of interests. 

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So right mapping something I 
will start mapping something and

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I'll do a lot of research and 
then you'll be gone. 

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You're doing that kind of 
research. 

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Something else would be coming 
in and you'll remember it. 

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Right? 
So, so that will be a data for 

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something else and that data at 
some point of time. 

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I will think that it is fast if 
it is fascinating enough, try to

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prepare a separate napkin. 
So it can come from. 

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Either way, we can start from 
the purpose that can start. 

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And after while doing the 
search, I can find another story

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of some sort of different know. 
Actually. 

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I will this fascinating because 
everything that you described, 

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right, everything that you 
described so far seems to me 

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like almost Most exactly the 
same as the data science process

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rate. 
Where a lot of times you start 

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with a question. 
I didn't like try to design an 

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experiment. 
Collect data, figure out what 

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data can be, used, what tools 
can be used to process the data 

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and whatever you output. 
Finally is just the last ten 

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percent of whatever you have 
done. 

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And there are also a lot of 
times when you will be working 

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on something and then you'll be 
like, hey, maybe I should look 

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at this. 
Other thing that might also be 

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interesting and then like sort 
of going to that and stuff. 

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So it's so it's Interesting. 
That like, I mean while the 

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output of you might think of 
maps as being like sort of not 

230
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necessarily this joint but very 
different from sort of data 

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science, but in terms of the 
process, it's pretty much the 

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same. 
So it's the that's a fascinating

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00:12:17,900 --> 00:12:20,200
insight for me. 
So in the middle while you're 

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00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,400
answering I think you spoke 
about choosing colors. 

235
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,600
So can we spend some time 
talking about colors? 

236
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,400
I mean like also because one of 
you the things I've noticed with

237
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your Maps is that layer 
generally visually appealing. 

238
00:12:31,100 --> 00:12:34,800
So what is it about Chapstick, 
how should you choose colors? 

239
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,900
What kind of colors make sense 
in? 

240
00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:40,200
What kind of context, and it's a
little bit awkward sometimes for

241
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,300
me to answer this one. 
But anyway, I'll just do that 

242
00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:45,200
because the reason being is that
when I joined the recent 

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00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,700
organization, variety that for 
the last six years, one of the 

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earliest come up with that. 
So, I mean, it used to be, I 

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mean, that's where I began 
learning it in the sense. 

246
00:12:54,700 --> 00:12:57,400
Like, till then it was all 
analysis, analysis and modeling.

247
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I had, you know, as I said like 
the four parts, the first three 

248
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parts I always answered. 
Electrical. 

249
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I was perfect time. 
I felt that I was perfect in the

250
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,300
first three, but I always 
thought the ark was overrated 

251
00:13:09,300 --> 00:13:13,500
by, for when I began taking the 
maps and the analysis to, you 

252
00:13:13,500 --> 00:13:16,000
know, governmental agencies and 
public domain. 

253
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:17,800
That's when I realized that I 
lacked. 

254
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,400
I mean, I that's when I 
understood the value of R. 

255
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,100
So, with, that learning, I mean,
from my burning, so what I will 

256
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say, is that the choice of 
colors, I try to make it as 

257
00:13:29,100 --> 00:13:32,500
Simple as possible by. 
I mean, I call myself a 

258
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minimalist in that way. 
If you have map, shouldn't 

259
00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:37,600
contain too much of information 
as well as it shouldn't, it 

260
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,400
should reveal the right amount 
of information and it can be 

261
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,600
more than that. 
So, in that perspective, we 

262
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can't perceive more than 15 
colors that are built. 

263
00:13:46,300 --> 00:13:50,700
And I mean if I'm going to throw
15 colors in front of you you'll

264
00:13:50,700 --> 00:13:54,800
be like, so yeah at the max I 
choose like three or four 

265
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:59,500
fundamental colors and I try to 
make sure that Highlight the 

266
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story as much as possible. 
So basically the concept is if 

267
00:14:03,700 --> 00:14:06,600
you're looking at like, from a 
kid's perspective, of someone 

268
00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:08,200
who has been seeing these 
things. 

269
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,500
Will they take from it? 
That is the question I try to 

270
00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:13,200
answer when I choose my colors 
and when I choose the 

271
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,500
highlighting and everything, so 
the story has to come out very 

272
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clearly if the story is not 
coming out, then it is not 

273
00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:22,000
possible, right? 
So then to get this, I tend to 

274
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,700
be minimalist, I try to talk 
about certain things about focus

275
00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:28,000
and highlight. 
For example, if I'm going to 

276
00:14:28,008 --> 00:14:29,800
tell the story, About that 
elevation. 

277
00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:31,600
So that is the Focus. 
Right? 

278
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:36,100
So your elevation is the focus 
so that choice of color should 

279
00:14:36,100 --> 00:14:39,300
be like in that the foreground 
that elevation should be, the 

280
00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:42,000
one that is getting highlighted.
And the rest of it. 

281
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,800
You should imagine that it is a 
background image. 

282
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,200
Like I mean, it's similar to any
other industry, by the way, it's

283
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,100
similar to any photographic 
industry or videography or 

284
00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:55,000
anything of that sort where you 
think of foreground and 

285
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,400
background and everything around
that, what should be highlighted

286
00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:59,700
and what? 
Going to be highlighted. 

287
00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:03,800
So and it's a trial and error. 
I don't have any specific rule 

288
00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:05,800
book. 
It's always like I change the 

289
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,000
transparency. 
I change the things that 

290
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,200
contrast, sharpness, everything 
I think over and over for every 

291
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,300
layer till I kill. 
I feel that. 

292
00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:14,800
Okay. 
This is telling the story. 

293
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,000
So the moment someone see this 
map. 

294
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,500
I think they'll get the story 
that I think I made lots of 

295
00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:22,000
mistakes also. 
So I mean, the successful ones, 

296
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,300
we always talk about but the 
ones with the errors I have used

297
00:15:25,300 --> 00:15:28,600
to think like, you know, it 
works a lot, but people are not 

298
00:15:28,700 --> 00:15:30,600
King me because it's not 
visualized. 

299
00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:35,500
Maybe there are, I mean 
naturally itself some of them 

300
00:15:35,900 --> 00:15:38,800
it's difficult to visualize that
way, but there is no single 

301
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,000
rule. 
I mean the one one single rule 

302
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,900
for it. 
Is that a person who doesn't 

303
00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:45,100
know should understand it? 
If it is answering that 

304
00:15:45,100 --> 00:15:47,500
question, then is why that is 
the choice of color. 

305
00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:50,900
I learnt a lot about, you know, 
I never thought why to a 

306
00:15:50,900 --> 00:15:53,600
circular. 
So I learned that it can be 

307
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,500
useful. 
If it is rightly used, that can 

308
00:15:55,500 --> 00:15:57,400
be very powerful in sending out,
hanging. 

309
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:02,500
It impresses a lot of So, I tend
to choose some four or five 

310
00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:04,600
colors which are really 
impressive. 

311
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,600
For example, read the golden are
lower the blue for water that I 

312
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,800
have a specific goal that I have
for water. 

313
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,900
If you go through my things some
of them will have that kind of a

314
00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:16,500
blue either but then black and 
white. 

315
00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:19,300
So between these colors, I try 
to finish my map. 

316
00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:22,400
So but I just make sure that 
these ones are there to 

317
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,300
highlight the stuff. 
So yeah, yellow, red, black 

318
00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:28,600
white, these four fundamental 
for me, too. 

319
00:16:28,700 --> 00:16:30,800
To highlight the glue. 
Is that a ground than green? 

320
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,400
Is the back? 
That's going one. 

321
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,000
Other thing that I have sort of 
noticed in many of your Maps, 

322
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,000
right? 
Is that like you use a lot of 

323
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,400
annotations? 
I think I'd recently put on 

324
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,800
Twitter also that for the 
particular map, it was because 

325
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,200
of your annotations that it was 
easy to read the map and 

326
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,200
understand the message to 
message, right? 

327
00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:53,300
So, how did you, I mean, is that
also sort of a learning process 

328
00:16:53,300 --> 00:16:55,400
that which you learned over 
time, that adding these 

329
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,900
annotations help? 
And then like, how do you choose

330
00:16:57,900 --> 00:17:00,300
what annotation? 
To put tile like is there a sort

331
00:17:00,300 --> 00:17:04,000
of a sweet spotted? 
How much a notation is good for 

332
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,500
a particular man? 
Yeah, so it's a learning. 

333
00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:09,800
I never liked that. 
I mean I never thought 

334
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,099
annotations were part of a 
component of a map. 

335
00:17:13,099 --> 00:17:15,800
I used to always put them and 
put them in the legend in the 

336
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,800
bottom. 
So my Legends used to be like, 

337
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,400
you know, really large and 
experts should understand that. 

338
00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:24,800
That's what I realized. 
It experts really understand 

339
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,099
from The Legend. 
They go to the legend, a check. 

340
00:17:27,099 --> 00:17:28,300
What is this color? 
What is that? 

341
00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:31,900
Killer, when they come back, but
for a good majority of people, 

342
00:17:31,900 --> 00:17:35,100
the first 5 seconds or 10 
seconds of moving. 

343
00:17:35,100 --> 00:17:38,400
The map is You know, that they 
will be attracted to it or not. 

344
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,300
Right? 
So it has to arouse your 

345
00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:43,600
curiosity as well as right as to
answer the question quickly, 

346
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,100
otherwise people get frustrated.
So if I'm going to show you, 

347
00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:50,500
show something to you, that is 
having a lot of information may 

348
00:17:50,500 --> 00:17:54,800
be valuable information, but you
have difficulty in understanding

349
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,000
it, right? 
If you have that difficulty for 

350
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,700
more than 57 seconds. 
You'll lose your interest and 

351
00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:04,200
you'll walk straight into 
another treat. 

352
00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:05,500
Right? 
Sophie, you'll scroll down. 

353
00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:08,600
So for me, that try to 10 
seconds is very critical so that

354
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,100
five to ten seconds. 
I have to. 

355
00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:12,300
So within that five to ten 
seconds, but the max you can be 

356
00:18:12,300 --> 00:18:16,500
33, annotations can be. 
So I'm increase itself is a too 

357
00:18:16,500 --> 00:18:19,500
much one, but probably you'll be
looking at one and the keep. 

358
00:18:19,500 --> 00:18:22,700
The first one is captivating, 
you will look at another two and

359
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,100
you'll get, I mean, that's it. 
That's all you want to do. 

360
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,900
A majority of the people that 
like, 90% of them want to see 

361
00:18:27,900 --> 00:18:30,900
that, you know, that And they 
want to get the answers right 

362
00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:32,600
away. 
They don't want to get further 

363
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,300
accelerates across. 
So at that point, I prefer 

364
00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:37,400
keeping the annotations to sell 
the story. 

365
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,000
Basically, if I want to talk 
about I think so actually many 

366
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,300
people don't realize how flood 
water will look in a satellite 

367
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:45,300
image. 
So it's very difficult for them.

368
00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:48,100
Till there will be different 
forms of flood waters and the 

369
00:18:48,108 --> 00:18:50,500
different colors. 
So some of them, it's muddy some

370
00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:51,800
of them. 
It's not that muddy. 

371
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,300
It's dark. 
It depends on. 

372
00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:56,600
What how much silt is there and 
what type of letters Etc. 

373
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:57,900
There are so many things into 
it. 

374
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,100
So at that, That point. 
It is very difficult for them to

375
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,700
know what color means what. 
So if I'm going to post that 

376
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,800
without that annotation, 
everybody's going to scroll 

377
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:14,400
down, they would feel either 
dumb or they would be later. 

378
00:19:14,500 --> 00:19:16,500
You know, this guy's posting 
some random stuff. 

379
00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:19,200
I don't want that. 
I if I want them to be hooked 

380
00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:21,600
ever tell them very clearly that
this is the flat area. 

381
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,000
And after that, the more 
enthusiastic ones, they will 

382
00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:33,300
search for smaller details and 
add a little bit of So three 

383
00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:37,800
annotations at the max 34 if it 
is a gift is really a big map. 

384
00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:41,100
If it's a really something that 
I worked on for a long time. 

385
00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:44,900
Or if I think that if it isn't 
confined to a small story, like 

386
00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:47,100
for example, the car very 
Watershed map that I had 

387
00:19:47,100 --> 00:19:50,200
prepared like you. 
That one is a pretty large map, 

388
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,400
pretty large area. 
When you have such a large area,

389
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,000
you have people who are 
emotionally attached to it. 

390
00:19:56,500 --> 00:19:58,100
I'm attached to their 
geographies. 

391
00:19:58,100 --> 00:20:00,200
They will be like some or 
someone will be from Bangalore. 

392
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,200
Someone will become tangible and
someone will my sister and 

393
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:05,800
everyone will be like, where is 
my place? 

394
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,100
Is it getting represented? 
They will be emotional about it.

395
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:12,500
So, you have to have a little 
bit more of text. 

396
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,500
So, yeah, the Ada is a balance 
between what people would be 

397
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:20,100
expecting from that type of a 
story, so that determines that 

398
00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:22,400
annotations and without that, it
is not going to work. 

399
00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:26,900
That's the Coming to the side 
again, a related topic. 

400
00:20:26,900 --> 00:20:30,500
So, I think, when I make my, I 
use a lot of crafts and 

401
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:33,900
visualizations, in, in my work, 
so, to AA, explain everything. 

402
00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:37,300
So, of course, very few Maps, 
but mostly like typical bar 

403
00:20:37,300 --> 00:20:39,900
graph Scatter Plots in all that.
So, one of the things that I am 

404
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:43,200
very particular, is that, if I 
am making a graph, I should 

405
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,500
control the message that the 
reader gets because I am making 

406
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:50,900
a graph to kind of tell a 
particular story to you. 

407
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,000
And so, I want to make the make 
the graph is the right man. 

408
00:20:54,100 --> 00:20:57,200
Another make the necessary 
annotation so that I control the

409
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:58,900
message. 
So that's my philosophy. 

410
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,100
The other philosophy is that 
like you should just show things

411
00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:08,000
as they are give control to the 
people who are consuming it and 

412
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,400
then like so and then let them 
consume it. 

413
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,900
This is the whole interactive 
maps, sort of moving maps, that 

414
00:21:13,900 --> 00:21:15,900
kind of feel like so, so, where 
do you stand on? 

415
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:19,800
How do you do both, or do you 
have a particular favorite in 

416
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,900
this and like, how how does that
go? 

417
00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:23,900
Now? 
I am actually 90%. 

418
00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:27,200
Of the first age 10 percentage 
of the second stage. 

419
00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:31,500
So when I say that what I mean 
is that every map of mine is 

420
00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:34,500
supposed to have a story and the
story is going to be curated by 

421
00:21:34,700 --> 00:21:38,500
so I decide the story, right? 
So I wanted to be like I decide 

422
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:42,200
what people have to see an act, 
but on the other hand, there are

423
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,700
going to be Enthusiast, right? 
So for them, it's a small. 

424
00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:47,400
Print will be there for 
exploration. 

425
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,800
It's up to them, to explore it, 
and they want to explore it. 

426
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,200
They can go ahead and 
exploratory. 

427
00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:55,200
Good majority of the data that 
That I have in case is open 

428
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:56,900
source. 
And if they are really 

429
00:21:56,900 --> 00:21:59,300
interested, they can browse 
about it and they can go ahead 

430
00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:02,800
with their story if they want to
find something. 

431
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,900
But for me the purpose is very 
very critical for me. 

432
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,600
It can't, it can't be a headless
one. 

433
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,200
So all my Max I even now I think
I posted something and I call it

434
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,700
as story-driven maps of story 
oriented Maps. 

435
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,900
I don't call it as Maps. 
I'm not, I'm not preparing an 

436
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:18,500
actor. 
So I mean, yeah, that's that's a

437
00:22:18,500 --> 00:22:21,000
different one. 
But for me, I think there should

438
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,900
be a story and because to 
clearly Define what? 

439
00:22:25,100 --> 00:22:29,100
I'll have an agenda and all the 
time, like people think people 

440
00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:31,500
might think that is just posting
nice Max. 

441
00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:32,900
But always, that he gave a 
naked. 

442
00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:34,700
Imagine that any can I say to 
you? 

443
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,400
And I have a problem. 
It's a bigger concept. 

444
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,000
If I, again, I think the 
inspiration I take it from. 

445
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,800
So there is a short-term 
storytelling long-term 

446
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,800
storytelling. 
So many Concepts, I'll try to 

447
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,200
integrate into my maps and most 
of it comes from movies and pro 

448
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:56,400
wrestling and also key that 
That's very interesting is also 

449
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:57,200
in somewhere. 
Now. 

450
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,800
You mentioned that like all the 
data that you use in some of 

451
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,900
your Maps. 
It's all open source and things 

452
00:23:01,900 --> 00:23:03,800
like that. 
So, coming to the data. 

453
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,300
I mean, let's talk about the 
data behind the maps itself. 

454
00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:08,300
Right? 
So for example, how easy or 

455
00:23:08,300 --> 00:23:10,400
difficult is it to come across 
this data? 

456
00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:14,400
And how easy or difficult is it 
to process are there? 

457
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,900
Sort of restrictions on making 
Maps. 

458
00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:20,100
Do you run into copyright issues
and getting permissions? 

459
00:23:20,100 --> 00:23:22,700
And how if you were to, if 
somebody were to get it to 

460
00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:26,500
mapping now like How would it be
in terms of just getting hold of

461
00:23:26,500 --> 00:23:28,900
the data to support of start 
working with it? 

462
00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:33,800
All right. 
So actually the answer is a 

463
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,200
complex one. 
Certain things are, you know, we

464
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:42,100
already have data for a lot. 
But you see in there is there is

465
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:46,600
a deficit country and for the 
anything that we want to tell a 

466
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,600
story on, we don't have that 
much data. 

467
00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:51,500
And that is on one side. 
On the other side. 

468
00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:55,800
Once that are already out there.
They are underutilized so it's 

469
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,300
both, right. 
So what happens is that you can 

470
00:23:58,300 --> 00:23:59,900
tell a lot of I mean you can 
create. 

471
00:24:00,100 --> 00:24:02,400
Lot of maps with openly 
available data itself. 

472
00:24:03,100 --> 00:24:06,700
And the second is, if you spend 
a little bit more time, if you 

473
00:24:06,708 --> 00:24:11,700
are little bit patient enough, 
if you are not busy enough, so I

474
00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:14,600
mean, many people get lazy that 
they don't sit and digitized, 

475
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:20,100
but I love to sit and do that. 
I mean sit and digitized data. 

476
00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:24,000
So if we are doing that, then 
probably will have lots and lots

477
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,200
of interesting data points that 
are going to come. 

478
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,700
So, India is the severely under 
map and even Oh it is data that 

479
00:24:30,700 --> 00:24:32,600
is it is also severely 
undermanned. 

480
00:24:32,900 --> 00:24:35,600
So that means if someone wants 
to do math, they are still 

481
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,500
having a lots of scope even 
without any proprietary data. 

482
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,300
Now there is a lot of 
proprietary data that is leather

483
00:24:41,300 --> 00:24:44,100
is a lot of data that is hiding 
behind pay walls. 

484
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,400
There are some that are hiding 
just behind, you know, 

485
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,400
government doesn't disseminate a
lot of them and there is a lot 

486
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,400
of those kind of things are also
there but but I think you can do

487
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,700
a lot with open data itself that
open data and probably a little 

488
00:24:58,700 --> 00:25:02,600
bit more reading or something. 
You'll get a lot more data 

489
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,500
rather than waiting for 
proprietary data. 

490
00:25:05,500 --> 00:25:09,400
So majority of the ones that I 
post our open data, but few of 

491
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,000
them, I think are proprietary, 
probably is related to mine 

492
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,300
company and or probably 
self-interest is also there. 

493
00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:17,900
So, in the sense, like, I would 
be thinking certain things to be

494
00:25:17,900 --> 00:25:20,400
cobbling, those kind of things, 
but I actually publish it. 

495
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,600
But yeah, some somehow I think 
90, 10 and 90 percentage of the 

496
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,600
data is open. 
Anyone wants to replicate some 

497
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,900
though that that's awesome to 
know like and you mention of a 

498
00:25:30,908 --> 00:25:33,200
digitization. 
So what exactly do you mean by 

499
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,500
digitization? 
I mean if it is just data, it's 

500
00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:37,500
just taking data from a PDF and 
typing it out. 

501
00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:40,800
I mean is it that or do you 
actually digitized maps? 

502
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,900
And how do you get? 
So how do you do that? 

503
00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:47,700
So for example, actually, it's a
complex one. 

504
00:25:47,700 --> 00:25:51,000
There are three sets of answers.
One is with respect to PDFs, are

505
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,800
typing it out. 
Like for example, let's say 

506
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,900
prevalence of coconut trees that
sort of palm trees and connect 

507
00:25:57,900 --> 00:26:01,500
more districts. 
So there we have some numbers 

508
00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:04,600
from old gasset saying how much 
palm trees were there in the 

509
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,300
district. 
So you have number so that is 

510
00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:09,000
directly. 
I'm going to type from somewhere

511
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,000
else to killing some kind of an 
information. 

512
00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:16,200
Second this certain boundaries 
where hand-drawn in the past, or

513
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,000
maybe they were digitized, but 
they are not provided. 

514
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,200
This to us in a digital format 
of a that, and those maps have 

515
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,300
to be drawn like polygons have 
to September. 

516
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,600
For example, The Village 
boundaries that I have probably 

517
00:26:28,700 --> 00:26:31,300
probably, maybe one or two other
companies in India, might be 

518
00:26:31,300 --> 00:26:33,400
having. 
So this is sense of boundaries 

519
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,100
for. 
So I think I did manage to draw 

520
00:26:36,100 --> 00:26:38,300
all the polygons for nearly six 
hundred thousand six. 

521
00:26:38,300 --> 00:26:41,400
Luckily, this ritual. 
So, so sit and draw which of 

522
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,300
these polygons look, At the map 
if you're getting old. 

523
00:26:43,300 --> 00:26:45,200
Exactly. 
The location on the ending, we 

524
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:46,800
give the coordinates and 
everything. 

525
00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:49,200
So basically, sit and draw those
ones. 

526
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:54,900
So that is s, then there is a 
third, which sometimes I ask my 

527
00:26:54,900 --> 00:26:57,600
colleagues to do also, but I 
also do a lot of that. 

528
00:26:57,900 --> 00:27:02,300
That is people describe stuff in
their text, which will not be a 

529
00:27:02,308 --> 00:27:06,800
direct attribute data, or, or 
geospatial data, but it will 

530
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,900
have a geographical, you know, 
context to they'll describe it 

531
00:27:09,900 --> 00:27:12,700
thing that to my left. 
There was this, too, My right. 

532
00:27:12,700 --> 00:27:15,600
We were walking through one of 
these streets and at the end of 

533
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,600
the street there was a temple or
something like that so that I 

534
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,100
can sometimes convert it into a 
map, instead of wings. 

535
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,400
Instead of that being set as 
text. 

536
00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:27,200
I convert that into the map 
based on the descriptions that 

537
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,200
they have provided. 
So this is a different type of 

538
00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:31,700
individual three, three types of
consent. 

539
00:27:32,300 --> 00:27:36,500
So for example, for this one, 
I'm doing one map on it actually

540
00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:39,000
has a little bit of map 
component to it. 

541
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,000
But I am taking a lot more on 
the text also, there is there 

542
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:47,200
was this Start a riot in 1858. 
So the English officers were 

543
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,700
fatally for the cash. 
They strike and an English 

544
00:27:49,700 --> 00:27:54,800
officer has written letters to 
the government in Madras saying 

545
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,900
that this was think that is a 
bridge, but it is not being 

546
00:27:56,900 --> 00:27:58,800
used. 
They also gave some reference in

547
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,500
maps, but most of these were 
coming and text like, saying 

548
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,200
they were writing a letter to 
the other. 

549
00:28:03,500 --> 00:28:06,100
So, from those letters, I try to
convert like, okay. 

550
00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:09,100
This is this place exactly. 
This is what they are trying to 

551
00:28:09,100 --> 00:28:10,900
explain and then I convert it 
into a story. 

552
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:13,800
I'm just waiting at probably. 
I think probably by this month 

553
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,000
in do something like that. 
I will put out a map on that 

554
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,100
that saying that, you know, this
was that incident and this is 

555
00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:22,900
how it happened. 
And probably to mention about 

556
00:28:22,900 --> 00:28:26,400
this cast related violence, 150 
years ago, right? 

557
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,600
So that's amazing. 
Documentation is the first 

558
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,100
place. 
I mean that you managed to find 

559
00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:35,800
this document from 1858 and idea
like and converting that into a 

560
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,800
map away and finding it a little
hard to imagine, how you take a 

561
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,100
piece of text and convert it 
into a map. 

562
00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:45,800
But yeah, I'll probably wait, 
wait for you to publish this to.

563
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,000
Yeah, this one is actually the 
letting the easy but there are 

564
00:28:49,008 --> 00:28:50,600
some things that I paint too. 
Great. 

565
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,900
For example, one neighbors been,
I've been attempting for an ear 

566
00:28:53,900 --> 00:28:57,800
right now, but I couldn't get it
right as the original 24. 24 

567
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,600
parganas were supposed to be the
fairness and the Mahal, the 

568
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,000
house of administrative units, 
those who are these doubt to the

569
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,100
English. 
Try after the battle of Endor 

570
00:29:09,100 --> 00:29:12,900
think, so they have names and 
descriptions in Some places. 

571
00:29:12,900 --> 00:29:16,200
But how do I find the location 
of that place? 

572
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,600
Like the inradius place names 
have changed? 

573
00:29:18,700 --> 00:29:21,200
They mention something is new. 
Something is Count. 

574
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,700
Like, how do I go about it? 
They are both are fergana. 

575
00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:26,300
Not, which means knots Cog, 
Anna. 

576
00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:28,100
Where is this? 
Not for dinner? 

577
00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:29,300
What is this? 
What is not. 

578
00:29:29,300 --> 00:29:38,700
So those kind of things are so 
for that? 

579
00:29:38,700 --> 00:29:42,000
I think I've managed to trace 
around 10 or 10 now. 

580
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,500
It's still in like, you know, 
sometimes it's a failure, but 

581
00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:49,900
it's also learning but that's 
that makes it more interesting 

582
00:29:49,900 --> 00:29:54,000
because the more I read about 
those things actually I realized

583
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,800
that certain it's not just 
Bengal. 

584
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,900
Also, you have lots of good soil
based with each place names. 

585
00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:03,200
So I was looking at them that 
probably doesn't store in there.

586
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:08,700
Also in terms of mapping. 
So anyway, that's okay. 

587
00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:11,900
That's all. 
Okay, that's that's also but 

588
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,000
Let's change tracks a little bit
now. 

589
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,900
So I am curious to understand 
like so you produce a lot of map

590
00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:20,100
setting apart, from what you 
hear, or Twitter. 

591
00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:22,100
You also get feedback from other
people. 

592
00:30:22,100 --> 00:30:25,400
I mean, III, know this part of 
your regular work as well. 

593
00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:29,300
So my question to you is are 
there certain kinds of maps that

594
00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:32,300
are easier to understand or are 
there maps that are more 

595
00:30:32,300 --> 00:30:36,800
difficult to understand what 
kind of maps map based stories, 

596
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:42,800
do people easy take to and what 
which are sort of like What are 

597
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,100
the kind of things where the is 
sort of like the learning curve 

598
00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:49,900
for people is a bit steep maybe 
and they may not really 

599
00:30:49,900 --> 00:30:55,500
appreciate the map. 
I won't say that that there is a

600
00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:58,500
particular field of maths. 
That is difficult for people to 

601
00:30:58,508 --> 00:31:03,100
understand, but in every type of
map, it depends on like what I 

602
00:31:03,108 --> 00:31:08,000
was describing the process. 
If they didn't answer that 

603
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:13,400
process, then the same map can 
be Used in a more easily 

604
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,600
understandable way, as well as 
some more complex way which goes

605
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,500
into failure. 
So it can be produced in both 

606
00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:24,700
the ways. 
So there never is a particular 

607
00:31:24,700 --> 00:31:28,900
field that can never be made 
easier or vice versa. 

608
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,200
So, for example, if I have to 
say, like, I mean, one one 

609
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,000
critical thing is that, like I 
said, like people should 

610
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,300
understand this one of the 
questions that you need to 

611
00:31:38,300 --> 00:31:40,000
answer when we are preparing 
them out. 

612
00:31:40,700 --> 00:31:45,600
And if the producer is going to 
be lazy about it or if the 

613
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,300
producer is a little bit 
egoistic about it in the sense 

614
00:31:49,300 --> 00:31:52,500
that they will be, like, none of
this is science. 

615
00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:54,700
This is how it should be. 
This is, if people can't 

616
00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:58,300
understand it's their fault or 
sometimes people who go, the 

617
00:31:58,300 --> 00:32:01,600
producer will go like, you know,
they won't even look into it. 

618
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,400
They will fill it with job them.
They will try to sound as smart 

619
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:11,100
as possible, and at that map, if
that is the map, then it is So 

620
00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:15,100
that is the but there is no 
single set of maps that will be 

621
00:32:15,100 --> 00:32:18,500
good or bad. 
It depends on who's going to 

622
00:32:18,500 --> 00:32:20,800
produce and how it is going to 
come out. 

623
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:26,000
So sometimes I try to make sure 
that I convert the words into 

624
00:32:26,700 --> 00:32:29,600
easy understandable, one's less 
technical Words, which could be 

625
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,200
easily understood by everybody. 
Right? 

626
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,700
So that is the concept if that 
is not answered, then it is not.

627
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,400
That's that's the, that's the 
awesome awesome. 

628
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:43,300
And it's a bit Probably a bit of
a cliche question and one that I

629
00:32:43,300 --> 00:32:46,600
hate to answer, but I'll and ask
you anyway, so what are the kind

630
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,400
of kinds of software tools that 
you use while product producing 

631
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,300
your Maps like and are these 
like again accessible open 

632
00:32:54,300 --> 00:32:56,400
source, or like, I mean, how 
does it work? 

633
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:01,000
It how has your journey being so
far in terms of even to use? 

634
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:06,000
So I usually, I tend to follow 
that Maslow's growth, you know, 

635
00:33:06,300 --> 00:33:10,300
if you have a happy all that you
have is a hammer, everything. 

636
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,100
He looks like an alien to you. 
Right? 

637
00:33:12,100 --> 00:33:15,700
So basically the tool, if you 
are religiously attached to a 

638
00:33:15,708 --> 00:33:19,300
particular tool, you will think 
about the problem about the same

639
00:33:19,300 --> 00:33:21,400
tool. 
I mean, how that tool will 

640
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,600
answer it, right? 
So from that perspective, only, 

641
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,600
the basic idea is that you 
shouldn't be attached to a 

642
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,800
particular tools. 
So I try to be as flexible as 

643
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,300
possible. 
But I also have. 

644
00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:35,100
I also religiously adopt certain
tools and so for work purposes. 

645
00:33:35,100 --> 00:33:39,200
I think we have license for RJ 
as which is a proprietary 

646
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,200
software. 
But every day I try to promote 

647
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,800
and use the qgis, which is open 
source, so, which can perform 

648
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,100
everything that are Diaz, does, 
and spring, and sometimes 

649
00:33:51,100 --> 00:33:55,000
actually the visualizations of 
much better in TJ's, I think so,

650
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,300
I think use that one for GIS 
purposes for every process. 

651
00:33:59,300 --> 00:34:03,900
I think I will, I prefer using 
python since it stands for table

652
00:34:03,900 --> 00:34:07,000
thing and the but it depends. 
I mean sometimes I have to 

653
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,500
switch to JavaScript are our 
sample of that. 

654
00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:14,300
To do that. 
The night goes, it depends. 

655
00:34:14,300 --> 00:34:19,900
I mean Mangalore visualization 
that you mentioned earlier. 

656
00:34:20,300 --> 00:34:23,500
I think that was done the final 
visualization of done using a 

657
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,699
software called area lat. 
I don't think anyone knows it. 

658
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,900
I don't think anyone in India 
knew it, when I prepared a nap. 

659
00:34:29,900 --> 00:34:32,100
Okay. 
So small software. 

660
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:35,000
It was, I mean, it was an 
amazing software, but they just 

661
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,400
created it and put it out in the
open and somehow I found it 

662
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,199
somewhere. 
And after. 

663
00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:41,699
I had one and it was looking 
great. 

664
00:34:41,699 --> 00:34:44,100
And it was just thinking a 
minute or something like that. 

665
00:34:45,900 --> 00:34:49,100
I thought it was great. 
And the preparedness of the for 

666
00:34:49,100 --> 00:34:54,699
an entire year. 
I think I produce, so that's 

667
00:34:54,699 --> 00:35:15,600
all. 
Got it. 

668
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,500
Got it, though. 
I think I guess since both of 

669
00:35:17,500 --> 00:35:20,000
them are open-source. 
I guess it is possible for you 

670
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:25,500
to sort of get fanatical about. 
Okay, so now can you talk talk 

671
00:35:25,500 --> 00:35:27,900
me through, some of your 
favorite Maps. 

672
00:35:27,900 --> 00:35:29,700
It could be maps that you have 
reduced. 

673
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:32,800
It could be maps that somebody 
else is produced and that you 

674
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,400
like and so on. 
So can we just take two, three 

675
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,200
examples of maps that you like? 
And you can talk me through will

676
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,600
probably put Links to the 
pictures of these maps in the 

677
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,800
description with the podcast so 
that the viewers can sort of the

678
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,200
listeners can see them. 
But, but yeah, like if you could

679
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,600
just take examples of two or 
three maps and could be yours, 

680
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:51,800
could be anywhere. 
Somebody else. 

681
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,300
I think I don't have any 
favorite. 

682
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,800
But to be honest, I don't have 
any favorite. 

683
00:35:56,300 --> 00:36:00,000
Usually, I measure it based on 
how much people loved it. 

684
00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:03,000
So probably from that 
perspective as the link. 

685
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,400
So actually maybe I'll just 
explain why I don't have a 

686
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,000
single favorite because for me, 
as I mentioned earlier, It's a 

687
00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:14,500
short film story as well as a 
long-term story for the one map 

688
00:36:14,500 --> 00:36:17,400
is not an app. 
It's actually going to come with

689
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,300
another map. 
That is going to connect the 

690
00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:21,800
story to it and it's a bigger 
part. 

691
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:23,900
So maybe something like, I can 
explain it. 

692
00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:25,900
But but that's why I don't have 
any favorites. 

693
00:36:25,900 --> 00:36:30,400
I believe that each one is a 
component of the massive 

694
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,800
storytelling that I'm trying to 
do here. 

695
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,100
So, but I will talk about the 
Nats that people love the lat, 

696
00:36:37,300 --> 00:36:42,100
so giving people some of them. 
Viral some of them have not. 

697
00:36:42,100 --> 00:36:45,100
But I will talk about the ones 
that went viral because people 

698
00:36:45,100 --> 00:36:47,500
really understood. 
So those are the ones that I, 

699
00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:50,900
you know, from, I mean, it 
taught me a lot as well. 

700
00:36:50,900 --> 00:36:55,400
So in the description, maybe I 
will add one on the 30-day map 

701
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,200
challenge that I did last year. 
So in that, there are some 30 

702
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,100
which each one with one 
different concept and I mean 

703
00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:04,300
Concept in the guns, like it 
didn't have a story but it was 

704
00:37:04,300 --> 00:37:07,400
just information but 30 
different information portrayed 

705
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,000
in different different formats. 
So for example, there was One on

706
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,400
the religious landscape of 
Kerala, where I portrayed, you 

707
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,300
know that, I mean we have 
religion. 

708
00:37:17,300 --> 00:37:20,900
So and we have three fundamental
colors, red green and blue, 

709
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:22,600
interesting? 
Need to of the religions 

710
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,700
actually somewhat associate with
colors nearby to them. 

711
00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:29,300
Like you can do a more updated 
of that Quran and Islam the 

712
00:37:29,308 --> 00:37:32,900
screen. 
And so I managed to make a map 

713
00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:35,900
of those three saying that, you 
know, if it is more blue than 

714
00:37:35,900 --> 00:37:38,400
you have more Christians, if you
are adding more green than that 

715
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,100
is more Muslims. 
And if you are More red than it 

716
00:37:41,100 --> 00:37:43,900
is more Hindu. 
And it was somehow these things 

717
00:37:43,900 --> 00:37:46,300
just work. 
So those kind of coincidences I 

718
00:37:46,308 --> 00:37:50,800
love because, you know, it's 
something really complex and 

719
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,000
just because things are this 
way, is really answer that. 

720
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:59,000
So those that one I loved and 
there was one I prepared out of 

721
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,100
excel because signing just color
formatting Excel cells. 

722
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,400
So that was the thought that he 
had for a long time and it 

723
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,400
wasn't long before. 
Even I had a computer. 

724
00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:14,900
I had seen the Excellence of 
when I was a kid and I never had

725
00:38:14,900 --> 00:38:19,300
it in mind when I was growing 
up, but I thought if it was 

726
00:38:19,300 --> 00:38:21,400
given to me then what can I do 
with it? 

727
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:27,200
So I had drawn that in my notes 
notebooks when I was okay, like 

728
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,700
this is how the color different 
types of trauma and it did the 

729
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:33,900
same thing. 
So when I got x sub I collided 

730
00:38:34,300 --> 00:38:37,600
and I got a map by just by 
coloring all the cell's and it 

731
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,400
was a vegetation map of India. 
Probably that one was Yeah, it 

732
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:42,800
didn't have. 
These are, these didn't have 

733
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,800
long-term story, but it was, it 
was actually answering the 

734
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,200
question that I was talking 
about that technology, right? 

735
00:38:48,500 --> 00:38:51,100
That you shouldn't be fixed 
until the any technology. 

736
00:38:51,100 --> 00:38:54,300
Any any software can be used, if
you can color code, the Excel 

737
00:38:54,300 --> 00:38:58,700
into map, then what? 
But not, write any any software 

738
00:38:58,700 --> 00:39:01,400
can be used for mapping 
contends, that annotations that 

739
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:02,700
you are talking about. 
Those are coming from 

740
00:39:02,700 --> 00:39:05,100
PowerPoint, right? 
So that to answer that question.

741
00:39:05,100 --> 00:39:07,400
Probably I created that and 
probably other. 

742
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,100
It is coming from that When the 
Thought is also, How much are 

743
00:39:11,100 --> 00:39:13,200
you feeling? 
Watch that attitude and so bits 

744
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:14,800
and pieces of it? 
Not the whole movie. 

745
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:21,600
Okay, so the rat in Paris which 
wants to be a check and you 

746
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,300
know, and I think ghosts out 
what's the name of our 

747
00:39:24,308 --> 00:39:26,700
restaurant or something? 
With some some some inspiring. 

748
00:39:26,700 --> 00:39:30,500
Jeff was running it before long 
time before the Jeff used to say

749
00:39:30,500 --> 00:39:33,800
that anybody can cook meaning 
that even a rack and even a rat 

750
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,200
can become a chest. 
So it's the same thing. 

751
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,800
I wanted to tell with that map. 
Anything can be used for 

752
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,300
performing a Anybody can map and
any software can happened, Excel

753
00:39:43,300 --> 00:39:46,200
can be used and that was one of 
the maps to demonstrate that. 

754
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,500
So it's part of the long story. 
Like I said, everything is part 

755
00:39:49,500 --> 00:39:53,100
of a long story. 
Yeah, like you say that you have

756
00:39:53,100 --> 00:39:56,800
drawn from sort of the 
inspiration you got from WWE and

757
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:01,400
stuff is what you mentioned. 
Yes, so they're using used to do

758
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:11,600
anything. 
Within a match. 

759
00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:15,600
They'll have a story that they 
want to say and they'll it's not

760
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:16,400
just a fight. 
Actually. 

761
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,200
It's like a well choreographed 
want, right? 

762
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,500
So they try to sell us and then 
they have a short-term storyline

763
00:40:21,500 --> 00:40:24,600
there, even over the Rivalry 
between two wrestlers in, like a

764
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,400
short period of time like two 
months or three months to keep 

765
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,100
going on and then there will be 
a long-term storyline. 

766
00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:33,500
Sometimes it might stretch years
if it works out nice, then they 

767
00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:35,600
have the characters and 
everything that is built for 

768
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,700
several years. 
So you have these three things. 

769
00:40:38,700 --> 00:40:40,300
So in my methods or it could be 
like that. 

770
00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:42,800
There will be a small component 
of short-term story. 

771
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,900
That is the particular issue 
that the map wants to say, and 

772
00:40:46,900 --> 00:40:49,700
it will be part of a short-term 
story that is part of the Season

773
00:40:49,700 --> 00:40:52,800
or something like that and 
trying to beat a level long-term

774
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,400
story with my agenda. 
That is my thought process that 

775
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,800
I want to talk about like 
gustaf's, anybody can cook. 

776
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,900
Anyone, any software can be used
for mapping. 

777
00:41:01,300 --> 00:41:04,600
That's my long-term storyline 
and of which the short installed

778
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,800
line was that 30-day map 
Challenge. 

779
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,300
And within that, there is this 
particular map that is free. 

780
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,000
Can Excel and mapping it and 
saying that, you know, this is 

781
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,100
the short time in this is the 
enduring story. 

782
00:41:15,100 --> 00:41:18,900
So so if you are going to look 
at my maps for the mind, my 

783
00:41:18,900 --> 00:41:23,200
concept is that if you look at 
my maps for the next 5 years or 

784
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:27,500
10 years, then you will think 
the same way I do. 

785
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,400
So that is what I'm doing right 
now. 

786
00:41:29,500 --> 00:41:33,500
Very, very, very interesting. 
Very, very dizzy. 

787
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,200
Okay. 
So, again, sort of something 

788
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,600
else I wanted to ask you about. 
So, I think most of the maps 

789
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,300
that you have produced the ones 
that I Of remember, of the 

790
00:41:41,300 --> 00:41:43,600
custom Twitter. 
And so on at sort of what I 

791
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,800
would call, as topographical 
maps are maps that are they 

792
00:41:47,100 --> 00:41:50,300
similar to what you would see in
the physical map, physical 

793
00:41:50,300 --> 00:41:53,700
likeness care rather than a 
political at this kind of thing.

794
00:41:53,700 --> 00:41:57,400
Like, but also like, I mean, 
have you also play like I think 

795
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,200
you've also done some maps of 
cities and things like that. 

796
00:42:00,500 --> 00:42:03,000
What are the sort of the 
challenges are differences 

797
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,500
between Lex a mapping urban 
areas in cities versus sort of 

798
00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:11,400
mapping the mapping large 
regions like Like maybe as a 

799
00:42:11,700 --> 00:42:13,300
sort of a slice of South India 
or something. 

800
00:42:13,300 --> 00:42:16,500
So with respect to them. 
Usually I don't have any 

801
00:42:16,500 --> 00:42:20,500
technical or scientific issue. 
It's all going to be the same 

802
00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:23,500
for me, the amount of work that 
is going to be put our, what 

803
00:42:23,500 --> 00:42:24,900
kind of sort of story. 
I want to say. 

804
00:42:24,900 --> 00:42:27,800
Everything will be almost the 
same with respect to our bun. 

805
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,000
I mean, this is also some 
something to do with the 

806
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,500
psychology of things, people try
to find the false Indian 

807
00:42:34,500 --> 00:42:36,300
contingent and they will be 
always expecting. 

808
00:42:36,300 --> 00:42:38,400
Something. 
You say something about bad, 

809
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,300
about the city. 
They'll be expecting that. 

810
00:42:40,700 --> 00:42:43,600
If you put Matt Forte. 
So, that is the usual problem 

811
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,200
that I have like, they, of 
course, are so, these are not 

812
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,800
that visible, but it doesn't 
mean that we shouldn't celebrate

813
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,200
the culture around. 
What everyone will be expecting.

814
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,500
Likely to show a river flowing 
through a sleeping. 

815
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,900
The comments would be filled 
with, you know, it's the way 

816
00:42:58,100 --> 00:43:00,100
it's all. 
It always used to be like that, 

817
00:43:00,100 --> 00:43:01,500
but it's like this, it's like 
that. 

818
00:43:01,500 --> 00:43:04,300
But if you're going to talk 
about a larger geography, people

819
00:43:04,300 --> 00:43:06,700
try thing to be more 
appreciative of the. 

820
00:43:06,700 --> 00:43:09,400
So, again, again, coming from 
pro wrestling and Moody 

821
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,900
backgrounds here. 
I have protagonist and 

822
00:43:11,900 --> 00:43:14,000
antagonist and all the heroes 
and villains. 

823
00:43:14,300 --> 00:43:16,600
I called my maps, like 
sometimes, like, you know, from 

824
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,400
that perspective. 
Also, I pretend to see you. 

825
00:43:19,100 --> 00:43:23,000
So the stick to our urban area 
since people are expecting this 

826
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,900
kind of faults. 
I try to link, you know, Try to 

827
00:43:25,900 --> 00:43:29,100
bring the other side of it as 
much as possible, but it will 

828
00:43:29,100 --> 00:43:32,300
try to, you know, it's more like
more like nostalgic. 

829
00:43:32,300 --> 00:43:37,100
Gives you a feeling that 
something was nicer back in long

830
00:43:37,100 --> 00:43:41,000
time ago or something like that.
And using that as a compliment. 

831
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,700
I try to feed into people that 
your city is not that bad, but 

832
00:43:44,700 --> 00:43:47,200
we can convert it into something
that is better. 

833
00:43:47,300 --> 00:43:50,400
That is the only thing that I 
need to do it in my maps and 

834
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,800
cities for the region. 
I think people are always very 

835
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,100
appreciative about their 
ability. 

836
00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:57,100
You know that us. 
This is the amazing place. 

837
00:43:57,100 --> 00:43:58,600
This is amazing. 
This is amazing. 

838
00:43:59,300 --> 00:44:02,000
They don't have anything to say 
at that point. 

839
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,300
So difficulty technically and 
scientifically I never had an 

840
00:44:05,300 --> 00:44:06,700
issue. 
Usually storytelling. 

841
00:44:06,700 --> 00:44:10,000
An urban NASA said like it is 
much more complex as you have to

842
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,300
tell the lot of things but but 
the landscape won't under view 

843
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:14,900
because it's relatively 
flattered. 

844
00:44:14,900 --> 00:44:17,500
When, you know, I mean, 
relatively flattered. 

845
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,600
So are you mentioned a while 
back that like, I mean India is 

846
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,200
a sort of a data started country
and that whatever data we have 

847
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,100
even that is sort of Not being 
used as much as it should dial 

848
00:44:28,100 --> 00:44:29,900
tone. 
I'm completely with you on that.

849
00:44:30,100 --> 00:44:33,000
So but from the mapping 
perspective, which is like, do 

850
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,600
you think there are cases where 
maps are underused where if we 

851
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,800
sort of use more maps, we could 
probably tell better stories, do

852
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,500
things better and so on and are 
there places where you think 

853
00:44:45,500 --> 00:44:48,300
mapping is over here examples 
for both. 

854
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:52,600
So the application is it is 
underused in India, with respect

855
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,300
to Forest management. 
Where ER it whether it is the 

856
00:44:56,300 --> 00:45:00,800
poor urban planning but 
management or planning related 

857
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:05,000
to that the claims of water. 
So every single domain that we 

858
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,600
can think of where Maps can be 
applicable to sexually and say, 

859
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,000
for example, as I said, that 
cloud is one one big case. 

860
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,400
So let's say a cyclone is coming
right now. 

861
00:45:13,500 --> 00:45:17,500
So the data for, you know, the 
data forecast for cyclone path 

862
00:45:17,500 --> 00:45:21,000
is going to compromise MD, or 
probably get it from The Joint 

863
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,500
icons and Draw Something Real. 
Get something from that, but 

864
00:45:24,300 --> 00:45:28,700
then, Once at once a forecast 
comes in, there is a, there is 

865
00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:31,600
a, there is an e that you can 
have a support system, right? 

866
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,700
Where you can say, how many 
leaders are going to be impacted

867
00:45:33,700 --> 00:45:36,100
disabilities. 
How many of them are having 

868
00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:38,200
power lines and what kind of 
power lines? 

869
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,100
How many Transformers are there?
Where are the emergency rescue 

870
00:45:41,100 --> 00:45:42,800
centers? 
Where other schools which can be

871
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,500
converted into the Emergency 
Shelters. 

872
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,400
There are so many things that 
can be produced in in a 

873
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,200
geospatial format. 
And the do anything in that 

874
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,800
room. 
So, disasters is for 18, s is 

875
00:45:53,900 --> 00:45:57,000
urban planning is complete. 
I don't think anyone understands

876
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,600
the value of maps over there 
because, like I see maps over 

877
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,000
there. 
But it's like something they are

878
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,700
doing just because they are told
to do and that's it. 

879
00:46:04,700 --> 00:46:08,600
And I don't see the value of it.
They don't understand the 

880
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,800
spatial nature of our economy or
geography and everything around 

881
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,300
that out people associate with 
money. 

882
00:46:15,300 --> 00:46:17,300
Everything is actually 
absolutely has a geography 

883
00:46:17,300 --> 00:46:20,500
galangal and I don't see any of 
them getting reflected in our 

884
00:46:20,500 --> 00:46:23,800
urban planning scenarios. 
So in every, every every 

885
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,600
possible manner, where you Lady 
maps with you, probably go 

886
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,800
through a presentation that 
talks about application of 

887
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,000
geography. 
So respect to overutilization. 

888
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,000
Now, that is a very clear. 
This is where now the 

889
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,900
overutilization happens usually 
with current, when I say Tech 

890
00:46:38,900 --> 00:46:42,400
friend, when someone says that 
an app, does a solution for 

891
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,200
everything, right? 
So, along with that app, they 

892
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,300
will bring a. 
So that's when I this is an 

893
00:46:48,300 --> 00:46:50,300
useless nap. 
That's, I mean, what are you 

894
00:46:50,300 --> 00:46:54,500
trying to be like, so what 
happens is that the II prefer to

895
00:46:54,500 --> 00:46:58,800
have a Data pipeline for, I 
mean, in the sense like locally 

896
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:00,800
managed of some prophetic. 
I have no talking about the 

897
00:47:00,808 --> 00:47:03,200
management. 
But more on the pipeline. 

898
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,500
If you are talking about any 
data data that has to be pretty 

899
00:47:06,500 --> 00:47:09,700
need to have you need to, you 
need to collect it from ground. 

900
00:47:09,700 --> 00:47:12,200
The hospital is where, as I 
said, we have to, you shouldn't 

901
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:16,100
be lazy about it. 
People are like, where the 

902
00:47:16,100 --> 00:47:18,600
hospital is that a school is 
expensive, but they don't sit 

903
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,700
and Mark. 
They don't go to that place and 

904
00:47:20,700 --> 00:47:23,900
check it. 
They don't add the attributes of

905
00:47:23,900 --> 00:47:27,300
anything about it. 
The Stuff, what they do is they 

906
00:47:27,300 --> 00:47:29,600
do the lazy work. 
Sometimes they just give the 

907
00:47:29,607 --> 00:47:32,100
address in Google maps and they 
get a location, and they just 

908
00:47:32,100 --> 00:47:36,800
put it and those are calculated.
And, I mean, it is accurate to 

909
00:47:36,808 --> 00:47:39,000
some extent, but it is not 
worthy enough. 

910
00:47:39,500 --> 00:47:42,800
And then they'll say, okay, if I
have prepared, a map of access 

911
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,200
to schools access to call 
hospitals, and here is the 

912
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:51,700
nearest covid Center and for me 
and maps that are coming out and

913
00:47:51,700 --> 00:47:54,900
it was given that the nearest 
vaccination Center was two and a

914
00:47:54,900 --> 00:47:55,900
half kilometers. 
Meters away. 

915
00:47:55,900 --> 00:47:58,600
And they look like this is not 
the place. 

916
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,300
I mean, this is not that ID 
card. 

917
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,400
So I have always connected to 
solving. 

918
00:48:02,500 --> 00:48:06,100
The problem is that the way 
people collect data and they 

919
00:48:06,100 --> 00:48:08,900
people structure, therefore this
is completely wrong and because 

920
00:48:08,900 --> 00:48:12,500
of that crisis, over utilized in
some cases, you don't require 

921
00:48:12,500 --> 00:48:14,700
maps to tell people certain 
things. 

922
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:19,500
So you don't have to tell group 
of, you know, your location is, 

923
00:48:19,700 --> 00:48:23,400
you know, you can see it in a 
map and you can find your 

924
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,000
nearest vaccinations and Through
a map. 

925
00:48:26,100 --> 00:48:27,800
You just tell them that this is 
the place. 

926
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:29,300
Yeah, you don't require an app 
for that. 

927
00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:31,000
Okay. 
Thanks Rog, that's being the 

928
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,900
completely fascinating and so as
we have learned a lot. 

929
00:48:33,900 --> 00:48:36,000
I mean, the first thing I 
learned was that like, I mean, 

930
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,300
mapmaking is like District data 
science in the entire process in

931
00:48:39,300 --> 00:48:41,900
things like that. 
But before we end I want to ask 

932
00:48:41,900 --> 00:48:44,000
you one. 
Last question, if you what would

933
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,800
your advice be to a youngster 
who is sort of interested in 

934
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,200
mapping and wants to make a 
career in mapping. 

935
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,600
What would your advice be in 
terms of how to go about the 

936
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,200
process when I try to hire 
people? 

937
00:48:55,300 --> 00:48:57,600
Also, this is one thing that I 
looking try looking for 

938
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,000
attitude. 
When I say attitude, it's about 

939
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,600
how inquisitive the person is 
how much they want to know more 

940
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,200
and it's not about the map 
making process, but how much 

941
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,000
they want to know more about the
society? 

942
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,200
They live in is about how much 
they want to know about the 

943
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,000
ground conditions. 
They should associate daily. 

944
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,600
They should have a strong 
proofs. 

945
00:49:18,700 --> 00:49:21,000
They should be that they are 
connected to a place. 

946
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,600
Only thing they can help. 
It's very useful. 

947
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,600
Thank you for listening to data 
shatter. 

948
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:53,700
If you like this show, please 
leave a comment, share and 

949
00:49:53,700 --> 00:49:57,000
subscribe to the podcast. 
You can find this podcast on 

950
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,800
Apple podcasts Spotify or 
wherever else you go to get your

951
00:50:00,808 --> 00:50:03,800
podcasts. 
Once again, this is Karthik 

952
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:05,300
signing deaf. 
Thank you.