It's time for let's let's ground strokes baseline.
It's top spin. That's LGBT.
Have a listen. Make some noise with the ball
boys. Hey everybody, and welcome to
the latest episode of The Ball Boys.
We are the tennis podcast that puts the court in courtship.
I'm your host, Paul Monkle and bringing the insights,
outbursts, giggles and wiggles of the ATP and WTA tours.
I'm coming to you live on tape on Zoom from the new Ball Boys
headquarters. Yes, I've moved again.
Last year's prolapsed roof was replaced by this year's noise
violations that were literally a hindrance to my sanity and to
recording any and all podcasts. So if you see some reels, you'll
see a new background. Don't worry, it's the same old
snark. And if this doesn't work out,
I'm selling everything and just going to follow the tours full
time. Now.
We have a ton to cover on today's show.
As always, the tennis action never stops, and same goes for
the crazy world we're living in. Overnight, the US and Israel
attacked Iran in several cities and Iran retaliated.
And things do not look great. And look, the Ball Blaze doesn't
have a sophisticated or hot take on what's happening.
But as always, I'm sending love to everyone out there and during
these times, if we can give you a giggle, if we can give you a
breath of fresh air, that's all we're trying to do.
So everybody, just take care of yourselves.
Now back to the tennis. The tourists have been literally
around the world and ay, ay, ay, I can't find my bagel with a
slew of five hundreds across countries and surfaces.
I love this part of the tour. And this might just be spring
fever, but the tours have been hot and bothered.
Or maybe more accurately, they've been hot or bothered.
And now both tours are heading back to the desert for the first
half of the Sunshine Double. Indian Wells.
Larry's version kicks off next week, and it's as wide open on
the women's side as it's maybe already sewn up on the men's.
And Speaking of Indian Wells listeners, are you coming to the
first annual tennis and tea dance?
Look, this year there are no pride events at Indian Wells.
So we said screw that and we're throwing our own.
Yes, the Ball Boys is partnering with Out Wide Podcast and taking
the party to the courts. So we're having the first ever
and 1st annual tennis and tea dance at Mission Hills Country
Club. We have tennis theme cocktails.
We have live ball led by Coach B.
We've got drag Queens literally serving and DJ John, John
Battles keeping us moving all afternoon.
So if you're going to be out there or you know someone going,
send them the link to the Eventbrite.
We've got to show up for the community, show up for some fun
and you can find the link to tickets on our Instagram and
that Instagram is at TBB Tennis. Again, that Instagram is at TBB
Tennis and also I will be previewing some merch.
Finally, some long-awaited merch and it's actually the shirt that
I'm wearing right now. I'm going to stand up and model
the garment so you can see it's lobs, ground strokes, baseline
and top spin LGBT for tennis before we dive face first into a
basket full of balls. I'm so excited to introduce our
very special guest Ball boy today.
He might single handedly be why I'm so hot and bothered and I
think he actually strings his racket with sexual attention.
He is the author of 30 Love, the gay tennis novel.
It comes out next week. I was lucky enough to get my
paws on an advance copy and it is fantastic.
Tom Velner, welcome to the ball boys.
Hi, thank you so much for having me and thank you for taking the
time to read the book. Oh my God, absolutely.
I, I read half of it in Mexico. So it's it's, it's a very
continental edition that. I have now.
I love that the book went abroad its first trip.
Yeah, she has a passport. Yeah.
But thank you so much for being on the show.
Really excited to have you. It's such a great book and it's
an important book and I'm so happy that it exists.
It launches, it's or it comes out on March 10th.
March 10th comes out as as they say, How are you?
Feeling, I feel like I'm holding onto my grip on reality as
tightly as possible because it all feels so wild.
I've, I've wanted to write a book basically my whole life.
So it's it's really, really surreal that it's like right
around the corner. And you're going on a on a, on a
book tour. Yeah, yeah.
Doing a little East Coast tour this this March.
That is so cool. And we're going to get into the
book and we're going to talk about the story and just the
experience of it without giving not too much, not too much away,
but. Talk about it because.
It is such a, you know, it's a great story.
I devoured it literally in just a few days.
And and listeners, if you want to get a a taste or, you know, a
little bit of flavor, Tom seamlessly references Gilmore
Girls and Tyra Banks smizing in one page.
So if that tells you anything you can grab a copy.
Where can listeners buy this? You can pre-order it before
March 10th wherever you like to buy books, and then, yeah, once
it's out on March 10th, you can grab it also anywhere you buy
books, and the audiobook is available wherever you like to
get your audiobooks. Who did you get like Pedro
Pascal to read the audiobook? God, Can you imagine that?
No, but shout out to Mark Sanderlin who is the narrator of
the audiobook and he is so incredible.
I it was wild listening to my writing out loud and I was like
laughing at my own jokes and I was like, this is this is too
meta for me. But but yeah, he's he's just
such a great performer. I love that and and legitimately
I laughed at sections like it's not just a romance, it's really
funny. You are officially going to
become a ball Boy I. I am so excited.
I've been listening for a while now and I can't believe I'm
becoming a ball boy. Exactly.
And so as a rite of passage, before we dig into the book, as
we do with every new ball boy, we have to start with our
segment, Getting Ballsy, where we go deep.
We probe you on how gay you are for tennis.
So, Tom Vellner, Are you ready? Hey, I am so ready.
Amazing. OK so first question, are you
gay TP or WT gay? I am WT gay.
Interesting, have you always been WT gay?
I think I've been WT gay since birth.
Oh wow. I like, I'm off to a flame.
I am but a gay man drawn to a powerful woman.
I think like growing up I was just obviously like Tales all
the time, obsessed with the Williams sisters.
That really got me into it. And then the yeah, kind of just
stuck from there. Like I've always found the
women's side of the game so exciting.
I'm a huge fan of Naomi Osaka Coco Golf, and not just for like
how exciting they are to watch, but I just find that on the
women's side, there's so much more outspoken about the issues
they care about in a way that I wish the men's side was.
Even though someone like Coco is so much younger than me, I feel
like I look up to some of these players on the women's side.
Yeah. Well, I mean Coco in in
particular. I don't know if this is just
intensive media training or what, but she handles every
question, many of which can be inappropriate or offensive, with
such grace. I know the way she carries
herself on and off the court is unbelievable.
Yeah, yeah. But that serve, I mean, let's be
honest. Oh, I know it's hard.
It's been hard to watch. It's.
It's that's the thing, I love Coco but sometimes I struggle
watching her matches. I know, I know.
I find myself looking down at my phone a lot just to like, take a
break from the emotional roller coaster.
Oh. Oh, and because it yeah, it gets
emotional, you know, that the US Open last year is just it was
the most sort of heartbreaking moment, I think, for the tour
was watching her breakdown on a changeover.
Yeah. Yeah.
OK. You're WT gay.
WT gay Yes. So you're not gay TP like
objectifying the men? Or listen, I this is not to say
that I don't. He swing both ways.
Yeah, there's there's a part of me that is gay TP I do follow
the men's store just as closely. And yeah, God, I don't know what
it is about tennis that attracts such hot men, but like,
sometimes it feels like it's a requirement to, like, be hot to
be on the tour at this point. Yeah, well, and I I think it
goes both ways 'cause I think also being a tennis player just
makes you hot. Like not just physically.
But like, it's just that's like the sexiest job to have, right?
There's barely anyone in the top 100 that I would like be like no
sorry. Like I'm not yeah, I'm not
turning down any of them. I.
Mean well, there's a few that just 'cause I hate their
politics well. OK, Yeah.
And you know who we mean. Yeah.
Oh yeah.
You know, villains named Sasha,
for example. Yeah, Oh my gosh, I couldn't.
I couldn't possibly. No, never imagine.
OK, great, so you're WT gay And what makes you a ball boy?
Tell us about your tennis background.
Have you always loved tennis? Yeah, pretty much ever since I
was a kid, I've been into tennis.
My mom taught me how to play, and I would just play it like
the public courts in my hometown.
Or I would walk up to the shopping center out the street
from my house where there was like a huge cement wall on the
side of a Jo Ann Fabrics. And I would just hit against the
wall all day. And they thought they probably
hated me. What is this like?
No. They're like, get this kid out
of here. And then I played in high
school, surprise, like so many days before me played in high
school because I was too scared of team sports.
And yeah, I loved it and continued playing just like
casually with friends. And some of my friends in high
school really got me into watching and becoming a fan of
the big three. And yeah, it just, it really
took hold early. So you're a you're a believer in
the big Three, not the Big 4, Sir Andy, come on, I.
No, I love Sir Andy. I really, really do.
The Big Three just kind of rolled off the tongue more
easily. And and they definitely became
the big three. But for a minute it was the big
four. I was.
I had hopes, but then his poor hips.
No, but I love Andy, I really do.
Especially Speaking of politics. My God, that man is like who I
wish all of the men could be. What an icon.
What a third wave feminist. I love him.
Yeah. Yeah, Andy, come on the show.
And where did you grow up? I grew up outside Philly.
OK, OK. Because I had, like, the same
sort of tennis my mother taught me.
And my favorite thing was to just take a ball and hit against
the wall, not even really like to play someone else.
But it's just like, so fun and meditative and, you know, like a
little bit of an escape. Yeah.
And so now I'd like you to speak for everyone and let me know why
do gay people love tennis? Because I hear this all the
time, you know. Oh, do you like sports?
You know, whatever. Oh, do you like tennis?
I love tennis. I love Serena.
I love Maria da da da da. What is that about?
What is that attraction to tennis about for gay people?
Yeah, I mean, I do think it's partially what I just said about
being a little bit fearful of team sports because there is
such a, there can be a very like toxic heteronormative culture
around team sports. It's something that queer people
haven't always felt like they've had a place in.
And I think that kind of individuality that comes with
tennis appeals to queer people because you can express yourself
the way you want, whether that's, like, through some of
the, like, fierce outfits that they walk out onto court with,
but also the way they express themselves in their game.
And you can have people who do match your values or your
politics and like, throw your full weight behind them.
And you don't feel like you're supporting a team that maybe
doesn't represent your perspectives.
Interesting. Yeah, I think there's just
something about tennis that like the glamour to like Queer as
Love an event, and some of these tournaments are like such
Capital E events. Oh yeah, it's hard not to get
into it. I mean, there is an inherent
campiness to a lot of these tournaments and a lot of the
sport, which is just very queer. I mean, like the all whites at
Wimbledon, you know, it's just it's so campy and there's
there's an appeal to that. I think it's interesting that
you what you said about teams, because I've never thought about
this before. But also when you're rooting for
a team, you're not just rooting for one player, like you said,
or, you know, even the full team, you're also like it.
Like, are the owners problematic?
Are the so I I I famously or infamously led the renaming of
the Redskins several years ago. And part of the challenge of
that task was that the owner was the most hated man in all of the
NFL. And no matter what the name was
going to change to everyone just hated Dan Snyder so much.
So you know, if you love your team, but the owner is a Dick,
like there's it's tough, but when it's a tennis player, I
mean, maybe you don't love their coach, but it's not like that's
really going to sway your support.
There's no there's no overarching man behind the
curtain who is controlling this team.
So that's really interesting. Like it's like a individual that
you can group for and relate to. I think I've, I've heard you
talk about this on the show before about how it's sort of
like when you're growing up and you're playing a video game,
like in a chooser fighter situation.
Like, of course, I always picked like the fierce woman character
and it sort of feels like fun like that with tennis too, where
like you're picking the character that you feel
represents you or that like symbolizes queerness or
campiness. And so was your first tennis
imprint Serena, or was there someone before that?
No, I feel like Serena, like late 90s Serena.
I mean, what a gateway to the sport.
Yeah, I guess I'm, I might be slightly older than you.
I'm in my mid to late 30s or 40s and.
You can say. So as always, I would say this
Jennifer Capriotti was my Britney Spears.
I imprinted on her when I was 13 and I was like this diva, yeah,
semi finals at 14 years old of the US Open like fuck yes, so.
Iconic. Yeah.
Iconic Diva it. Yeah, it's in you.
You're stuck. I have no choice.
I'm contractually obligated, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. It's like her and Wilson
Phillips. I was really like, coming of age
at a weird time. It's like, but I I also don't
mind, you know? Release me, baby.
Yeah. OK, Let's do a speed round real
quick and then we'll get into the book.
I'm going to switch this Coco or Naomi.
Oh my God, how can you do this to me?
I'm going to say, I'm going to say Naomi.
Why? I think I, I think I fell in
love with her first. Like I'm just going to go
chronologically. Like I think I just fell in love
with her game and her personality first.
No shade whatsoever to Coco. Like I yeah, like I would die
for her. No, exactly, exactly.
And I and I'm sorry. I sometimes I torture ball boys
and this is, this is the torture round.
So sorry. What did you think of Naomi's
Australian Open walk on kit? It wasn't my favorite look, but
the way she, the way she carries herself, like any outfit to me,
I'm like, I'm still gasping. And like, and also her point
afterwards that was like, if you didn't get it, it wasn't for
you. I'm kind of like, yeah, like she
doesn't need me to comment on her style.
Like, yeah, it's not. It's not up to me to determine
whether that was good or not. But I do think she has had
better looks. Yeah, and unfortunately, I think
very few people got it, if we're being honest, 'cause I'm glad
she did it, 'cause it was the moment.
And again, it's that campiness factor of like, OK, diva, right.
But the execution like the the culottes with the what?
It's just saying, you know, you know, it's a reality that.
OK, next question, Miami or Indian Wells.
Indian Wells Why you think you're classy?
Yeah, I don't know about that. But no, I just, I just love the
tournament so much. I mean, not Larry Ellison.
Like, please, please get fucked, Larry Ellison.
But but the tournament itself is just so fun.
And I feel like you can feel how much fun the players are having
and how much they love to be there, which makes it so
exciting and like it's also just satisfying looking at the
courts. They're so perfectly symmetrical
with the overhead lights and the palm trees, the mountains in the
background. Of the backdrop, Like, I love
the nosebleeds at Indian Wells because you get the pink sunset
on the mountains while it's like, it is literally they say
it's tennis paradise. I think it's tennis heaven.
It's just like, oh, like this is like, yeah.
Gorgeous. It is, it is gorgeous.
And yeah, unfortunately Larry Ellison is doing his thing.
And and also again, listeners, I think that This is why there's
there have been fewer and fewer pride events this year.
There's none. So again, you can either listen
to the wedding band they have playing in the main area or come
to the tennis and T dance. Lincoln Bio Yeah, I know, tough
choice. Favorite surface?
Hard, hard, hard. Yeah.
No, no. Diva.
Favorite tournament? I, I have to say, the US Open.
I just have such good memories. They're going with friends and
it's just such a fun time. I love how electric it feels
like it just, it feels like New York.
Maybe that's cheesy, but there's just like an electricity in the
air. The fans, like maybe they're
sometimes a little over the top, but I just love the I love how
energetic it is and how into it the fans are.
I feel like what I'm learning about you is like you're, you're
like a Showtime kind of guy. Like you like boldness you like
brashness you love? Serena.
'S you love the Naomi's you love, the US Open you love a
show you love? Yeah.
I love the thrill of it all. Yeah.
OK, OK, I I can feel that, you
know, I have, I have my issues with Arthur Ashe Stadium, but,
you know, I'll settle that with, with the USTA directors.
So, yeah. And so you wrote a, a, a, a
tennis romance. Are you single?
I am not I agree I do have a double S partner in life.
I do not have a double S partner on the court if anyone would
like to apply. My husband is not not the best
at tennis. He's very new to it.
I think our longest rally is probably like 1 1/2 shots so.
But I have I've fully indoctrinated him like he does
love watching matches now so I have to like.
Credit where credit's due, he has become a fan.
OK, great. I mean, what a testament to the
strength of your marriage that despite him not being able to
rally because 10, you know, marriage is a rally.
There's there's a lot of parallels.
I know there are. Yeah, not that I would know
because I am. I am the opposite of married.
So that was getting ballsy. Well done, Tom Velner.
Thank you. Oh my God, I made it.
You made it. You made it through the
gauntlet, but we're not done yet because now we got to dive into
this book. So we're going to talk about
again. It's called 30 Love.
It comes out on March 10th. What inspired you to write this
book? Did you think that you were
going to be writing gay tennis novels as a child?
No, I wish I could say that. Yeah.
It's like my lifelong dream. I I will say, though, that I I
do have a memory from like kindergarten of writing like a
short love story about two of my Beanie Babies that fell in love.
It was a boy and a girl. That will be the only straight
romance I ever write. But I do think I've always had a
fascination with love stories, like I said, like been watching
tennis for a long time. I've always been a fan of ROM
coms, obsessed with like 90s, early 2000s ROM coms.
And I was watching a lot of both when I was stuck at home during
the pandemic. Just like I would always have
matches on in the background, even when I was working.
And yeah, I kept waiting for there to be the first openly gay
man on tour and. He obviously was not coming
along at that point and I was like well what if I took these
two loves tennis and ROM coms and like wrote my own player who
was maybe secretly falling in love with another player on tour
and what that might look like behind the scenes.
I love the term ROM com because I like I was saying it's like
it's not just a romance, it's funny and it's a it's a little
like Harry Met Sally. There's like a real like.
That's a huge compliment. Arm to it, you know, it's like,
yeah, I love it. I I, I often don't think of
novels as ROM coms, but I think that that's a really cool way to
describe it. Yeah.
Yeah, I think, yeah, there's definitely like a distinction
between the classic romance novel and then more of a ROM com
too. Like I think there are books
that can make you laugh out loud.
And that's definitely what I was aiming for.
So I'm I'm happy to hear it made you laugh.
Yes, yes. Although, OK, so I have to start
out, though I've got a slight bone to pick with you, Sir.
We're not going to give away every detail in the book or too
many salacious things, but the book opens with the protagonist,
Leo, on a tennis podcast that is hosted by a middle-aged,
slightly behind the times, maybe a little offensive, overly
reliant on bad dad jokes host named Paul Jacuz.
I did not sign away my rights to be in this book, Tom.
How dare you? Paul, you are my news.
No, I as it says at the beginning of the book, all
characters are works of fiction. I will stand by that in the
court of law. I, I did not, I did not know you
when I started writing this book a few years ago, but it is, it
is a terrible coincidence, but I, I love it.
Also, you have to give yourself more credit because the Paul
podcast host in the book is supposed to be much older than
you and I. I think you have a much better
take on things than he does. OK.
And we find out his take is is not great as the book goes on.
So yes, yes. He definitely represents more of
the like old boys club of the tennis world.
Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
And you can. You can feel it.
Fun fact. Also, my friend Chris Bolin is
an author, and he wrote a mystery, and one of the bad
people in that name was also Paul.
So I'm just saying like, you know what, guys?
Give me a break. OK, So the book basically, it
takes place over the course of one year on tour, which I
thought was really interesting. You've got a lot of great
details on every tournament. Thank you.
And and I think it makes it accessible to readers who maybe
don't know tennis. Maybe they're just looking for a
queer romance or, you know, they they've finished all the heated
rivalry books and they're like, I need more sports boys.
How did you manage to get such details, especially if you
haven't been to these tournaments?
Because it's really well done. Thank you, that means a lot,
especially because you were obviously such a huge fan and
follow it so closely. I'm a monster, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I think part of it was like, once I started working
from home, I truly was watching matches like, all day, everyday.
So I think like, that sort of became my research for the book.
Like, I was just constantly taking notes about every detail
about the tournament itself, about the way that the matches
went down, following players on Instagram, too, just to, like,
get a sense of their life off the court as well.
But yeah, I wanted to make sure that you felt really immersed in
the sport. Like if you were going to spend
a year with these players, I wanted you to feel like you were
right there with them. And partially because I am just
so obsessed at this sport and the tournaments that I wanted my
love for it to come through and hopefully like be a little
infectious for other people. Yeah, no.
And I I think, I think you infected everybody because I
think it really did work like what you said.
Like I felt like I was on tour for a year that even got like
the travel and you don't know who's going to be at what
tournament and it's like, are we going to see each other?
We're not going to see each other and all dynamic there.
That's really fun and sexy in a weird way too.
I felt like I was kind of being edged for for like a good half
of the book. I was like, what's going to
happen next? Are they going to see each
other? There's so much sexual tension
for the first half of this book or even more.
It was like you, really. You took us through it, Tom.
That was definitely intentional. I wanted it to feel like a slow
burn where when they do finally get together, which I don't
think is a spoiler, it's a ROM com when they finally get
together. Like it feels really earned.
Like I wanted the pacing to feel natural, especially for people
who are traveling around the world and maybe going to
different places. It didn't feel like it would
make sense to have them get together too soon.
I wanted the tension to build and almost feel like tennis
itself with a lot of push and pull and like, you're like,
waiting for the big moment to come, which I think, yeah, a lot
of like these 90s ROM coms that I love so much.
Like you don't see the two main people get together until the
very end. So yeah, I wanted it to have
that kind of feel. OK, yeah, yeah, no, I I get that
now. And, and also it is such a
relief. And I think I think a lot of
queer people have been sort of traumatized by queer stories
that have been in the media for like the last 40 years or so
where it's somebody dies, somebody gets beaten up, like
they get AIDS. It's been a lot of torture porn
that's out there. And and we as as the queer
community sometimes have to had to be like, thank you for giving
us some sort of acknowledgement and platform in broader
societies so that our stories are being told.
But our stories were always sad. And this is not a sad story.
There's tension and there's stuff where it's like things
could go right or wrong or whatever, but it's such a relief
to have these stories out there where it's like, no, not
everybody dies. And I think that it's like
healing gay trauma almost, right?
Well, that means a lot. Yeah, I think you're definitely
right. There's always been this trend
of like, barrier gaze is like a term for how no matter what
story it was, a gay person had to die.
Like, the gay character always died, either violence or AIDS,
whatever it was. Those are like the crumbs we had
to accept. And I think now, and especially
like with heated Rivalry, I think there was so much love for
that show, myself included, just because it it was a happy
ending. And you got to see them
experience literally joy. Yeah, there was like, queer joy
for them. Despite going through things
obviously along the way, you still get to see them have their
happy ending. And that's what I wanted to do
here, too. Like of course there's struggle
for the main character, but he gets to also experience like,
positive relationships, God forbid, and yeah, experience
love and he gets to shock or have things work out as a queer
person like God forbid. Yeah, you mentioned he had the
rivalry and and honestly, the month after that finished, I
swear to God, like the Lexapro doses went down in West
Hollywood. Everyone was euphoric because we
finally got the happy ending and he was just.
Like, I know we've been waiting, our shoulders dropped.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I, I really hope that this trend continues where people see
like, whether it's TV execs or publishers, like they see that
it's, it's good for business to actually tell queer stories and
give them happy endings. Yeah, we're just going to keep
maybe the name of this show is going to be happy endings.
Actually, it might. Be Yeah, happy endings with Tom
Velner. Maybe that's a future book I'm
going to have to write. Yeah, that's exactly.
Well, Speaking of heated rivalry also, I mean, it seems like gays
in sports are having a moment. You know, there's heated
rivalry, there's your book, there's other queer sports books
coming out. I cannot go to the backroom of
the Eagle without tripping over another gay tennis podcast.
Why do we think this is happening?
We're everywhere. I know.
Well, I think, I think it's sort of like was only a matter of
time. Like, I think we are slowly, and
I mean slowly starting to see more athletes come out.
And I think like we like the queer community.
We've always looked for ourselves everywhere we go.
Like we want to see our stories told in books, in TV, in music,
like wherever. We want to see ourselves
represented everywhere. So I think even if you are not a
big sports fan, like I, I really don't follow any other sport
besides tennis. But if there, if there was a
hockey player who came out or if there was a football player who
came out, I would have no choice but to stay on.
I would, I wouldn't follow. Yeah.
Like I would immediately follow them.
I would back them. I would root for them.
And I think like, yeah, I think there's, there are so many
forces out there that want to erase queer stories and have us
be invisible. So I think even if it's sports,
which is like an area of life that maybe we haven't always
felt welcome, we want to see queerness there too.
And we want more people to tell their stories in sports.
And I think, yeah, like there's been, there have been a lot of
queer sports romances for a while now.
And I think it was, yeah, like only a matter of time before we
had a mainstream moment with Heated Rivalry and hopefully 30
Love and some other some other stories in the works.
Yeah, I will admit my ignorance. Like I never even really thought
about the romance genre as something that that was for me
because, you know, I think of it as like, you know, I was going
to say a cheesy Hallmark movie, but I'll be honest, I love a
Hallmark movie. But I was just like, oh, no, I
need to read, I don't know, Dostoyevsky or like some like
fucking bullshit. But actually since he Reverie
and now reading your book, I've got other queer romance is that
I'm going to read because it's just it's like taking a bath.
It's just like it's like self-care.
It's just like, no. Yeah.
Well, yeah. Like psychologically, like, it's
just so good for you to know that things are going to work
out at the end of the story. Like, and what I love about
romance, too, is that, like, I, I like, sometimes talk about it
like the pill and the peanut butter with your dog.
You need to get them to swallow the hard thing, but you're going
to disguise it. And I think with so many
romances that I read and watch, like there's so much in there
that is political or it's, yeah, it's about sexuality, it's about
race, whatever it may be. Like you're able to process
those difficult topics, but you're in this comforting world
where you know it's going to work out.
And like, you don't get that anywhere else.
Yeah, exactly. It's it's like a you're creating
a safe space to explore feelings.
Yeah. Because you know, it's going to
work out versus having this, you know, maybe like jaded or trauma
or whatever, where it's like, well, everyone's gonna die or
everything's gonna be bad or someone's gonna get beat up if
you hold hands in public, yadda, yadda, yadda.
And like, and there is some homophobia in your book.
You know, you, I love that you weren't like Pollyannaish where
it was like, and now everyone just loves everyone.
It's rainbows. And it's like, no, like there's
some real ditty people who don't respond well.
Like one of the characters loses A sponsor and has trouble with a
coach or whatever. And it's like, it's not the
easiest thing. And I think that's important.
Yeah, definitely. I didn't want to sugarcoat it
because we are not there yet in sports.
Like I think unfortunately coming out stories in sports are
still very new for the most part.
And yeah, I wanted to show that like it's, it's still not a
perfect world out there in tennis land.
There are still people whose politics are not great and who
players probably do fear would not be supportive.
So like, yeah, I wanted to make sure that that was in there, but
not not the main themes that you obviously could still enjoy
yourself and yeah, and have a good time.
Yeah, I mean, look, dude, I if we saw the voting records of the
ATPI, don't know if you'll really love it.
So yeah. And you know, and that's OK.
And also on this show, I try to be a little sort of punk rock
about it, where it's like, I'm going to maybe objectify someone
who is secretly MAGA and yeah, maybe they don't like it, but
actually I kind of think that's sexier because they don't like
it. Like, screw you, I'm still going
to say you're hot. Yeah, we're queering.
We're still going to talk about you.
Yeah, and actually, you know, we so we do have two gay players on
tour now. We've got Joao, Lucas Reyes,
Thermopolis, da Silva and we've got Mika Brunhold.
First one from Brazil, someone from Switzerland.
Shout out to da Silva who played the first round of the Rio Open.
First openly gay man to play in a main draw ATP tournament.
Work. A huge shout out.
Yeah, huge. Like, that's huge.
Granted, he was given a wild card, so he didn't play his way
in because his ranking is not up there yet.
Not yet. Not yet we're.
Hoping. Yeah.
And he's, you know, he's, he's good.
And also like, what a place to do it.
Like at the Rio Open, I watched a lot of the South American
swing this time 'cause I think I was just kind of craving some
clay. But the Rio Open, I mean, have
you been to Rio? I have not but it.
Is. That's what I've heard.
I know. And like God for him, for him to
debut in a main draw there too, like it's so perfect because
obviously he's at home, but also just like he, he's beautiful.
Like, let's just say it, he's beautiful.
Oh, yeah, well, no. And I loved it because so many
players were just having, taking photos like on the beach and
just like, it was just, it was a great time for for everyone,
fans and players alike. And, you know, but no, we, we
haven't had a player in the top 150 yet.
And I have no desire to out anybody, as I've said many times
in the show. And I don't like, I think it's
disgusting. But I do think we are going to
have a player somewhere in the top 150 in the next one or two
years come out. It's just, it's coming.
Like you said, it's a matter of time.
I think so, yeah. I mean, I would love if Joao or
Micah were to burst into the top 150 like that would be
incredible. But even if not, yeah, I agree.
I think it's it's incredible because they're so young, but
they're going to be the ones who blaze the trail on the men's
tour. And I hope that someone in the
top 150 does eventually come out if they feel comfortable because
Oh my gosh, with that, it would just be incredible to.
It would mean everyone at the top of the game be openly gay
playing in main draws. Yeah, I really hope.
And we have our lesbian Divas, we've got Casapkina, we've got a
few, but I identify as male. I would love a gay male role
model. Because also I was thinking
about this book. I was like, God, I wish, I wish
I had your book when I was in high school.
I know not that it's a high school level.
It's not like it's like a young adult novel.
It's no. But it was just like it was,
it's really inspiring. So I think, you know, I think
you're going to inspire some tennis players.
I'm just I'm just saying it right now from your.
Lips. So, you know, get out.
My lips have been a lot of places so.
I definitely had that thought. Like, it's such a, it feels like
such a pipe dream. But yeah, I mean, you heard from
Hudson Williams and Connor's story that they were getting DMS
from hockey players who are closeted.
Wow. And reaching out to them being
like, thank you for this story. And yeah, I mean, of course the
thoughts crossed my mind that like God.
I can your your husband is going to hate your DMS.
It's going to be spicy up in Tom's DMS.
Oh my God. What's next?
Are there more books coming out? Yeah, I am working on another
book. I can't say too much yet, but
yeah, there is another one in the works.
OK, yeah, I was thinking I was like, well, this one's 30, love.
Like, are you a fan of the comeback?
Lisa Kudrow show. I'm familiar, but I actually
haven't watched it. Wow.
We're going to end here, folks. So it is amazing.
I'm going to court order you. I'm going to cross court order
you to watch it. It's the best show.
I'll watch it so that you don't sue me for naming a character
Paul. Exactly, exactly.
You'll be hearing from my tennis lawyer, but it's coming out for
its, I think fourth season now. And it's just, it comes out like
every like 10 years. We got to check in with this
amazing character, Valerie Cherish.
And I was like, OK, this one is 30 love.
Like I want to see, I want 40 love where, you know, Leo is
older and maybe he's a coach or, you know, it's just like, I want
to know Leo again. And you know, just like have a
bit of a a reunion. So, you know, just throwing I'm
I'm giving you that idea for free.
So in 10 years and that comes out, we will have a redemption
arc for Paul. So.
We can only hope. Yeah, no, I, I love that idea.
And I, I think 40 love could be really cool.
And I would, I would love someday to revisit these
characters because I, I do like, kind of miss them.
Like as much as I don't miss obsessing over this book and all
of the edits And yeah, just like overthinking every scene.
It it was so fun living in their world, especially like given
everything going on in our own world right now, it was like a a
nice escape. Yes, 100%.
Yeah. It was a really good escape.
That's a great, that's a great phrase.
Well, amazing. We're excited for everything.
And and also like we don't have to worry about the next book
because the new book, the first book, it's coming out again
March 10th. Everybody pre-order it and Tom
Villaner loved it. Thank you so much.
Now we got to get into some of the tennis because you are not
you're here to work. You're not here to talk, Sir.
So we're going to talk about the tour just briefly.
I mean, there's been a million things going on, literally
tournaments all over the world, South America, Europe, Middle
East, everywhere, even in the good old US of A.
And to start off with every show I want to talk about the tennis
is we talk about the Lobsbians. And again, that's just the thing
that made us gayer for tennis since the last show.
And it can be anything from someone doing something sexy to
someone doing something ridiculous to, I mean, a pop
culture moment as we were just talking about all the things
that appeal to our sensibilities.
And I got to start off first. Lobs being it's Hilary Duff's
new song Weather for Tennis. You know, it's a bop.
It's a good song. Yeah.
Like Lily Allen, She had her
song last year. Tennis.
It was OK. I liked it.
You. Know I liked it.
Who the hell is Marilyn or Madeline or whatever?
It's fine. But this one I've been playing
on repeat and I'm like, this is like the weather for tennis.
It's good, it's good. It's.
Really good. Yeah, I'm, I'm happy for her
with this comeback. It's a good album and I'm just
like, wow, what is it with slightly scorned or aging women
who write a song about tennis? Like there's just something.
I know. I feel like they're picking up
on what a good metaphor tennis is for tension and maybe some
angst. Yeah, yes.
So I don't know, that's sort of like tennis.
Is definitely in in the broader culture, you know, whether it's
influencers like Morgan Riddle or just Zendaya always being at
it at a match. So it's having its moment, it's
spreading, it's spreading everywhere.
Well, and also the the semi theme of this show is hot and
bothered or hot or bothered. And the media the last few weeks
has also been hot and bothered. Just a few lobs VNS there.
I just love the moment where the on court interviewer was talking
to Sebastian Corda after he played Kaboli and she was like,
that was some really tight sex. Oh, I mean sets and, and, you
know, it's just obviously a, a, a slip and courtney's like,
yeah, Coboli's hot. Yeah, I love that he leaned into
it. Yes, it's like, oh, again, it's
like no, I feel like 20 years ago I've been like or like let's
bleep that or and just. Like.
It's funny, it's it's, it's just cute.
And well, and then that was also like the same few days apart
from the tennis TV tweet about that player booths that was
making your run and painting the lines like his name is Busay,
which is really Bussy girl. Like there, it's the easiest way
to know that there's no one gay on the social team.
No, no. Like like how did that happen
or? Is that what it is?
Who's like, girl, this is the moment.
This. This is it.
Yeah, that, that could be too. Like, but it was just the the
collective queer tennis media's mouth dropped when they saw
that. And yeah, and, and another mouth
drop. Valentin Vashiro's on court
interview. Now this almost crossed the
line. I, I actually felt a little
weird about posting it, but of course I posted it.
But he does this after a court interview and yeah, his just his
gigantic hog is straining his shorts.
To use the technical term, yeah. Yeah, it's like, I didn't know
he was half Hungarian, but it's like he's just like.
OK and I'm not even kidding I I literally am half Hungarian with
that what you will. OK OK those DMS are getting
spicier but like wow. Yeah, it was, it was a big wow
moment. I I almost felt like it was sort
of like the Olympic pole vaulter moment that went viral.
Like, yeah, I mean, if there's like a giant package in sports,
it's it's getting the viral treatment on Instagram.
Yeah. Yeah.
Which which I agree, it's like you have to know that it's
probably uncomfortable for them. Yeah, I was just like, because
there's ones where it's like oh, he's look so sexy, look at that
butter. But this was like like I know
his religion. It was very clear.
So yeah, but hey, definitely some Bay teepee points there.
We'll. Just say that.
Yeah, and there's some other Lobsvians I love.
I mean, this one is a little more of a ROM com Lobsvian, but
I just love the Rio dogs. So at the Rio Open, when the
players walk on with dogs who are up for adoption and I want
them all, I want this is what I love to reopen.
I want to go down there. I want to take pictures with
Desilva on the beach with our adopted dog.
Like, that's life goals. Yes, I'm with you and I, I don't
know why that doesn't happen. More like the walk out dogs.
That's such a good idea. Yeah, seriously.
Like those. Forget the kids.
Let me get enough attention at home.
It's fine. Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, I want more dogs. Yeah, like every, every.
Oh, OK, petition for dogs to be the official walk out because, I
mean, they must be in heaven with all the tennis balls
around. They're just like.
Oh God, it's their dream. Best day ever.
Yeah. Yeah.
OK, so those are the lobs beans that have happened in the last
few weeks. And there were even more.
But honestly, we could spend an entire entire day talking about
everything that made us gayer for tennis, even in just the
last two weeks, because there is a lot.
But we're going to get into some of the action with Twit.
And that is this week in tennis. Again.
As always, there's so much action going on, we cannot
possibly cover everything. If you're coming here for all
the scores, you're going to be as disappointed as I am that I
did not have 30 love to read when I was coming out.
But since we're all hot and bothered and basically worked up
into a lather because of Tom's book, we are breaking down Twit
into hot and then bothered because pretty much everyone was
one of these. So we're going to start out with
hot and we got to talk about Jessica Pagula's win in Dubai.
She has some really tough, strong wins over Anna Simova and
Towson to get into the final runs right over Spinolina, who
might have been a little tired from her semi.
Pagula has been so consistent for the last six months.
She's always a consistent queen, but there's something that feels
a little different lately. She's having her moment.
Like she's really. Yeah.
And, and and so there's a there's a great character in
your book named Tess. And I honestly feel like Tess
and Pagula have a lot of parallels.
Was that, is that true? Did you think of that or I'm
just like making a connection? No, I definitely think you're on
to something there. It was not specifically Pagula,
but like sort of like that friend group, like her Maddie
Keys. Like I want to test to sort of
have that big sister on tour vibe where you feel like you
look up to these women and like you just feel like they'd be
your best friend on tour. And I want to test if you like
that. But I will say so Tess is a
Filipino American player, and I have to imagine she would be so
excited about Ayala, who is like, having incredible success
and it's so fun to watch. Yeah, shout out to her.
Oh, big shout out to you. I mean the the crowds that come
to a Nyala match, it's rivaling Fonseca's.
You know, it was wild. I caught a bit of her match
against Cristea because, like Christia famously at the
Australian Open, did not love the noises that Naomi was
making. She must have been in hell
playing. Yeah.
Oh, I'm, I'm sure, yeah. But yeah, I love to see it,
yeah. Love it well and also I was
thinking of Pagula cause Pagula is half Korean but but yes that
big sister vibe loves seeing and I love that that Pagula is
having this moment and I I think she could pull out a Grand Slam.
I think she's got a few years in her.
I definitely think she's has it in her.
I think she just like it's like she needs that magic moment
where like The X Factor comes out and she just can finally
take down Sabalenka or whoever it is in a final.
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think the problem is, is that her, her
game can pretty much take out anyone right now except
Sabalenka when Sabalenka is on. Yeah, yeah.
So it's gonna, yeah, it's tricky.
It's tricky. Well, in some other news, we've
got some new power couples on tour.
Not necessarily just in romance, but talking about player coach
partnerships. So both of these matchups
titillate me. We've got Grigor Dimitrov
pairing up with David and Albandian and Arthur Fees being
coached by Goran Ivanisovic. I think both of these are
incredible picks. At first I was like, wait,
didn't Grigor and David play? And they actually did.
They played in 2012, Nebandian won.
So maybe he's just going to get some revenge on his coach now.
But I, I loved Nebandian's play and like, also like hot
Argentinian, South American like, like, and I didn't even
know he was coaching. I would have hired him.
I didn't know. I love this too, though.
I think that's such a cool relationship they can have.
I feel like I could be wrong, but I feel like you don't see
that very often where you're coached by someone you played
like, not that long ago. Yeah.
And that has to be good for the bond that you have.
Yeah, I mean, the thing that came to mind immediately was
that weird moment in time when Andy Murray was Djokovic's
coach. Oh well.
Yeah, which was just weird. It was like I didn't understand
that in any way. Like, that was bizarre.
Yeah, that felt like a fever dream.
Yeah. It's like, hey, guy that I
basically owned, will you approach me Just like what's
going on here? And Fees and Ivanisovich love
it. Fees is looking great.
He gets to the final in Abu Dhabi, gets destroyed and said
final. But you know, it's funny.
I did not like the way Goran treated Sitsipas when he coached
him for a minute. I don't know if you remember
this, but like it was like last year when they coached.
They work together for a few months and Goran basically goes
out in the media and talks about how fat and out of shapes Finos
is. And just like he's like, he just
doesn't have it. And it was like, girl, you like
maybe just tell him that privately.
Like you don't need to. Tell everyone else so yeah, but
I think he's going to and and fees is not out of shape because
we've all seen the photos of his 12 pack because he is jacked and
like looking good in every sense.
Yeah, and I, I love watching him, not just for that reason, I
think he's so exciting to watch and I feel like he hasn't in him
to start making some deep runs at slams, which he hasn't quite
done yet. But I feel like this coaching
matchup could be good for him, yeah.
And I'm really glad he took the time off he needed.
You know, he didn't rush back from the injury.
He was like, look, I'm out, I'm out.
Like I think he, he thought maybe he'd be back for Australia
and then just didn't. And I think it's now, No, no,
it's not like he's 90% and just managing through, which I think
Tommy Paul did last year, which was a mistake.
It's like take the time to heal the tours.
There is no offseason. We have to acknowledge that.
And so it's like, look, when you need time off, Anna Samova took
time off for mental health fees, takes time off for for physical
health. You got to do it 'cause the tour
ain't gonna stop. We also have Medvedev winning,
winning in air quotes in Dubai cause the final was a walk over
against Greek spore. But I'm happy about it.
Medvedev has now won his second title of the year.
And I'm happy about it because I caught the match between him and
Felix OJ Aliasim and that was like, I feel like I need to go
on antibiotics 'cause that was like that was clinical.
I feel like I was at the clinic. It was like he destroyed him in
that second set with the perfect Medvedev game.
He did not try to overpower Felix.
He wore him down with these 20 stroke rallies.
That is classic Medvedev because Medvedev, he just doesn't hit it
out. Felix was gassed.
Felix had nothing left. He ended up losing by two breaks
in the 2nd and I was like, that's, that's the medi.
I love Medvedev. I know he's not the greatest
person. In some ways he might have some
problematic politics personality wise though, because I I also
like I need players with personality.
Yeah, he's got personality. Oh yes, in spades.
And yeah, I agree. I felt like, I feel like he's
been like kind of not quiet, like vocally, but quiet in his
game for a while now. But I feel like with him too,
like we were saying with Pakula, it feels a little different for
him right now. Like he's back, back for
revenge. He wants to be where he was
before. Yeah, I think, I think he's not
happy to be lumped in with the other 90s Divas of the city
passes and Dimitrov. So like the guys who never want
to slam because yes, he's won a slam, He's been #1 but
everyone's like, oh, your time is over.
And I think, I think he's like, girl, no.
Yeah, like, wait a minute. Yeah.
Because it it did feel like he was sort of on his way out, but
Nope. So those are some of the things
that were hot on tour, but then there's been a lot of things
that have been bothered. So we got to talk about the
bothered side of the tour and we've been having a fair share
of meltdowns on tour. You know, some of the ladies
we've talked about already, but I am, I'm a little worried about
Anna Samova's state of mind right now.
She is really perfecting the art of becoming a meme or a GIF
because her facial expressions, she looks miserable out there.
Even if she's winning a point, she looks really.
Bothered I was going to say like the image I can't get out of my
brain is from AO where like she won a point, but the way she
looked at her team like the the most haunting grimace I've ever
seen in my life. Like, I know I, I really feel
for her because like she, I just, I hope she does what's
right for her because she took that mental health break that
was clearly so good for her. And I hope as much as I I want
her to continue the success from last season, I hope that if she
needs a break, she takes it. Yeah, I think she might struggle
with expectations and I think that now that there's
expectations cause a lot of people are calling her to win
the yesterday open, including me.
So I apologize Amanda, I I don't want to be contributing to the
pressure, but you better win. But yeah, but I think I think
she's she's got to figure something out mentally because
also I don't know in this in the in the year of our Lord 2026 of
crazy ass world that we're in, it's like, is anything worth
getting that upset about that is on a tennis court?
Like, just like, let's all have a moment, you know?
I know, I know. And it it must be hard too
though. Like it, it feels like the one
thing you should be able to control in like a completely
uncontrollable world that we're living in.
So like missing a forehand like probably would drive me to
insanity as well. OK, fair.
So she's then she's justified. Yes, but but no, I know what you
mean It it I and I mean again, like just to go back to Coco,
like she she's always the first to be like it's just tennis
y'all like yeah, there there are much more important things going
on. So yeah, I that's a that's a
tough mindset to get to, I'm sure, but I hope Amanda can get
there. Yeah, well, Speaking of Coco, I
have her down as the other as one of the other meltdowns
because her serve melted down in her semi final against Videlina
and she had a meltdown for her standards, which is like very
basically like a a stern word. She you know, she looked up at
her box and she said like, I've been doing what you've been
asking me to do for six months and I still cannot hit a serve.
And it's like I love her, love her watching her when she can't
hit a serve. It's it's so confounding, like
how is this happening? I feel like it's a basic
mechanic change that she needs to make.
I think she just tosses the ball too high.
I think she just needs to, you know, I mean, this is me
armchair coach, you know, who definitely double faults very
often. But I'm just I, I, it's, it's
weird, like why is she why, what is going on with her?
I know. And I used to never worry about
her serve. And now I'm like, oh, I feel
like I'm cringing every time she steps up.
Steps up to the line. Yeah.
So, yeah, it's. It's tough to watch.
I've been happy that at least, like her forehand hasn't been
making me cringe as much. So there is something removed.
Yeah. There's some relief there.
But now it's it's on the serve. Yeah.
So it's it's a tough watch, but. Yeah, well, and I'm also gonna
throw Carlos in for meltdowns, even though Carlos refuses to
lose this year. He's 12 and O, which is amazing,
even though literally at the beginning of the year I was like
that guy's not going to win anything because of this
coaching take up. But you know, that's that's what
we do here at the Bob boys And yes, he won Qatar destroyed fees
in the final. Like I said, Fees won 24 points,
which is the fifth lowest ever. But he, I was kind of a Dick
several times throughout the tournament.
Carlos, like when he's playing against Royer, he was mouthing
off to his box a lot. He had that argument with the
chair umpire about taking time to get the towel.
He just seems a little bratty, right?
He's in his brat era, yeah. He's a little late to the brat
era, but yeah, I think you're right.
Yeah. And I think long term, it's not
going to work out for him. I think it's going to get, I
think it's only going to get worse.
He's going to become a little more unbearable and a little
more I I don't know, I just and again, also I love to read the
tea leaves. So I'm like, no, this is the
end. I'm like Raven Symone, but I
mean, I feel like it's not the greatest look for him, but also
he he continues to win so. I know that's a thing.
It's tough to watch, but then he's still getting the wins.
So I'm like, well, I mean, if he needs to get it out of his
system, yeah. Because I think, yeah, I think
we're all missing Juan Carlos in his box, and I'm sure he is,
too. So yeah, I'm like, I was just
expecting this from the jump. Like I thought in January he was
going to be lashing out like this.
So I'm a little surprised that it's come later because yeah, I
was with you. I did not think he would go on
this winning streak with that change up.
But I think that's the thing. I think it's like, I think there
was like a little tear in his decorum and his family, his
especially his brother who can't even give him a fucking haircut
is they're not going to keep him in line.
So it's like that tear is continuing to open.
And I think like it might like by French, he might be like
flipping people off, like he might be smashing rackets, like,
I don't know, I don't know. Like the trend line is there.
We'll see, we'll see. And you know, Speaking of bad
looks also for Carlos, I'm just going to call out.
Another thing that bothered me was the appearance fees for Abu
Dhabi. Carlos and Yannick each got $1.2
million just to play at Cutter. I, I don't know, like for
perspective, Carlos won the tournament and he got $530,000
for winning the tournament, right?
So much more than double that they get just for showing up.
I don't know, it's a part of the game, I guess.
And of course, you know, countries that have a lot of
money want to sport wash and get the big players there.
But given the sort of inequality on tour of players inside and
outside of the top 100, it just feels greedy, like they really
need $1.2 million. I know, especially when you
think about what they're making off the court too, I'm like, I
don't, I don't think they need that much extra income.
Like they're for sale. Right, right, right, right.
Yeah, it feels it. It feels a little bit out of
control, That number, especially when you compare it, like you
said, to the prize money, it's like, yeah, it's hard to
stomach. Exactly, I I feel like there
needs to be some unspoken or even official.
It's like the appearance fee cannot dwarf winner's fee.
Like that's just like like like what's what's the point then
take away prize money then and just make it all appearance
fees. It's weird, like it doesn't
leave a the greatest taste in my mouth to to see that happening.
And and then, you know, interestingly enough, sits Apas,
comes out and gets involved in the conversation.
He's like, look, I don't play the South American swing because
these parents fees are not high enough.
First of all, are people really paying Stefanos Tsitsipas that
much to come to a tournament these days?
I wouldn't think so, but here he is.
Like, I mean, he's dropped out of the Top 40 for the first time
in eight years. I have a soft spot for him.
When he plays well, he plays really, really well.
I do think he's hot. I loved the toxic relationship
between him and Paula. I loved him.
That it, it was a it was a fun era, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Like it was like when Shawn
Mendes and Camila Cabello were dating.
It's just like weird to look at but I couldn't.
Walk away. I know.
I agree. Yeah, I wanted like a full
reality spin off about the two of them.
Oh. I know I I still hope they get
back together. You never know, you never know,
you know, in ROM coms they always come back together.
Maybe they're maybe this is their ROM com and it's just a
really weird one. This could be their third act
breakup where you know that it's it's going to circle back and
they might get together OK. Since he does, we're ready for
this. The last thing that is bothered
on tour was the entire Acapulco tournament literally had an
earthquake during a match Severa was playing and there was
literally an earthquake. There is a fair amount of social
instability going on across the country and they continue the
tournament going on despite all the cartels and everything,
which is just as like, wait, what are we doing here?
Is it this important to play tournament when maybe there's
actual like danger afoot? And not to be xenophobic or
overreacting or or not understanding cultures or
anything. And like I understand a country
is big, but there was unrest across the country so just it
felt weird. I agree.
Yeah. It often feels like, and not
just with tennis, but like we're going through the normal motions
when everything around us is so abnormal.
So it's it's a strange thing where it's like I need tennis as
an escape. But I also recognize that it's
so unimportant compared to what's going on in some of the
countries that these tournaments are being hosted in right now.
Yeah. Yeah.
And again, listeners, yeah, we fully acknowledge that, like, I
cannot solve the world's problems.
Tom, if you have a solution to everything going on, please, I
actually can. Yeah.
Slides. And then one more like weird
thing that happened in Acapulco was that really bizarre match
point between Terrence Atman and Miramar Kekmanovich, where, I
mean, Atman was like, sick as a dog.
I think he threw up on the court at one point and he got a time
violation on match point, but it was his second one, so he lost
the point and so then that was the end of the match.
It was just like you never see, you never see that as an ending
of a match. It's a strange anti climactic
way to end a match for sure. Like I can get it for a code
violation if you smash your racket or you like hit a ball
into a blinds person, fine. But like a time violation
leading to the loss of a point which is the loss of a match.
It just felt very weird. Very, very.
Weird. Yeah, of the times.
Well, so that was hot and bothered, which I think maybe I
kind of like doing twit as hot and bothered.
That might be like the new thing that we're doing, like it's like
hot. And.
Cincinnati or whatever. But also, folks, we do have a
new Bay TP rankings. With all of this action going
on, the Bay TP is out and it is reflecting the hottest moves on
and off the court. Once again, this is not just a
list of the hottest guys 'cause it'll be the same list over and
over again. And I can't keep spelling Tommy
Paul's name so. But it is the guys who are hot
and winning because you know what?
It's super hot to win. And I'll always go back to
heated rivalry. You know why those three guys
were so hot? Because they were the best three
goddamn players on the freaking league.
It wasn't just they were gay because they were gay and good.
So it's hot to win. You know, it's not like Leo and
Gabe are slouches on tour. No, certainly.
Not yeah. So they are.
They are two of the best, certainly too with the best
Americans. Yeah, so it's it's hot to win.
Sorry, I don't know, maybe that's offensive, but it's hot
to win. So anyway, we've got this new
Bay TP. You know, Carlos is on there,
Valentine Vassaro, just because that interview is on there.
Echevari is on there because he won.
He wins his first tournament in a ridiculous marathon manner.
So go to our Instagram, check it out and let us know what you
think and if we missed anyone. And we're going to wrap up with
a quick chat about Indian Wells because that is coming up.
It's the 5th Slam. The ATP and the WTA is there.
I love whenever, when both tours are at the same tournament.
Question in the 30 Love universe, who ends up winning
Indian Wells first, Leo or Gabe, the two main characters?
That's a tough one. I am going to say Leo.
I think he is the more consistent player.
He is higher ranked. So I'm I'm going to say Leo.
OK, OK. I don't know if I agree.
I think that Gabe, I think on the heels of some things that
happen, I think that Gabe is going to feel extra competitive.
And I think that he knows Leo intimately.
I think that he's mentally a little craftier.
Definitely. My money is on Gabe so.
Okay, I love it. I mean, they're like completely
different play styles. Totally this.
Leo is like such a hardcore power player and Gabe is, yeah,
he's super crafty. He loves a drop shot.
So yeah, I mean, you really can make a case for either.
Yeah, well, OK, so next time they play at Indian Wells,
you'll have to come back and we'll have to see who was right
and maybe in the next. Oh my God.
OK, so if in the next book you have Leo winning Indian Wells,
I'm going to be so mad. But and but I will, I'll I'll
move past it somehow. The draws actually aren't out
yet for Indian Wells because Indian Wells it actually starts
on Wednesday. So we don't know who any first
round matchups coming up, but who's your pick to take it all
for the men? I know it's a boring, easy
answer, but I I want to say Alcaraz, yeah.
I never go with like the 'cause I also, and this might be a
clear thing, I love an underdog. I love the unexpected.
I don't want to say Alcaraz, but I it's really hard to not say
Alcaraz. I know.
I feel like if I weren't, I keep thinking about Menschick's win
over Sinner and I wonder if, you know, maybe he'll break out and
take it. You never know.
I think he, I think fees, I think Booblick on a good day,
Booblick has kind of gone away. But I think they can all be
tough for Carlos in a best of three.
I think best of five, Carlos has them all, but best of three, I
think it's possible, but I think it's right now he's in such a
dominant form that yeah, I think it's, I think it's going to be
Carlos, too. Women's side feels much more
open. Yeah.
I couldn't like I. Agree.
Who are your top three picks for the women?
Oh top. Three, OK, because I think it's
impossible to say 1. I mean, it's like, Oh yeah.
It's impossible. So I mean, I'm wondering if it's
like a 2023 reboot where it's Carlos and Rabacana as the
winners again. But also I, I mean, I want to
like be delulu and be like, it's Osaka just because I love her so
much. And I'm like, it's this time.
Every tournament I'm like, this is this is going to be it.
But also I love him Boko. She's been having such great
results and I love watching her play.
And I could, I could see her being the underdog here and
going far. I love watching her game like we
talked about getting stressed watching some people like I'd
like her. Her mechanics are so solid.
It's a beautiful game to watch. Yes, I love the final between
her and Mukova. I love Carolina Mukova like I
love her. I'm like am IA lesbian like I
just her her eyebrows just like her gameplay like she's just
she's fucking cool. I know she is and I OK.
I I would, can I add a top four? I would, I would add Mahova as
OK. Oh, last fourth.
OK. Thank you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And especially because you you
need to replace Naomi. I know I I fully accept that
that's a delicious choice, but I'm putting it out there.
For do you think do you think Naomi's going to win a Grand
Slam again or she just. I like.
I want to say yes because I I, you know, like her semis run at
the US Open, I was kind of like, OK, And then, you know, I know
this is like taken aback a little far, but when she almost
beat Eaga at the French, she had match points on her.
And I remember after that I was like, OK, yeah, like she's got
it. She's going to come back if she
can beat Eaga at the French. Like, I know she didn't, but she
was close. But I don't know.
She's so up and down. I, I, I want to say yes because
I love her, but I, I'm not 100% sure.
Yeah. I, I, I think you're slightly
lower than 100% sure for sure. I think she's got like maybe a
25% chance. Maybe.
I know, but it's, it's, it's true.
It's because when those 4 slams she won, that was a that was a
powerful moment and I was, it was crazy.
Like the arc of those from the craziness with the Serena final
to winning during COVID, it was a really weird time in history
that she was just dominant. Yeah, I know.
And I feel like that's like sort of why I'm still stuck in that
era because it was, it was so wild to watch that I'm yeah, I'm
still, I'm still there. One more, one more.
Yeah, Yeah. Well, I just have to say I'm
also calling out Indian Wells, maybe Larry Ellison
specifically, because they did not give Stan Vavrinka a wild
card. I am sorry.
That is BS because also he's playing well and he's seen us,
you know. Yeah, he's not going to win the
tournament, but neither are 95 other people.
And he's going to get a win in a couple of rounds probably in
most tournaments. The enters and that backhand.
I was going to say put them in just so people can watch that
backhand. I am gay for that backhand.
I am a lesbian for that backhand.
Like, Oh my God, that is the most beautiful thing, that most
beautiful shot in the 20th century, 21st century.
What century are we in? I don't even know.
But who knows anymore? Yeah, where where am I?
When are we? But that is the most beautiful
shot that has been on tour for decades.
I'm I'm going to stand by that, hang that in the Louvre.
Yeah, I know. I mean, and really anyone handed
backhand, one handed backhound down the line is the most
beautiful shot to me. And I will say that Leo, the
main character in the book, does have a one handed backhand for
that reason. Oh.
Can't get enough? Yes.
Well, and also, if I was going to pick a a gay shot, right
behind the drop shot would be the one handed backhand like
it's a queer shot. Tom, that's our show.
I feel like I just went around the world with you several
times. Thank you so much for coming on
the show. It's been an honor.
I can't wait for everyone to love your book.
Everyone Go Out There drops March 10th.
Did you have fun? Oh.
My God I had so much fun. I can't believe I'm finally a
ball boy. You're a ball.
You're officially a ball boy. And even if you don't have a
book, will you come back? Oh.
My God, I would love to. Come back with any, anytime,
anywhere. You've been a delight to have
on. And we'll play more games in the
future. Yes, please.
And folks, we'll be back in just a few weeks with a new show
recapping all the madcap action out in the desert and also a
recap of the first ever first annual Tennis and Tea Dance in
Indian Wells. Again, grab your tickets,
Lincoln Bio. But until then, our balls are
going back in the can. Thanks everybody.
Bye. It's time for let's get some
ground strokes. Baseline.
It's top spin. That's LGBT.
Have a listen.