1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,080 What the fork? OK, OK, let's try this again. 2 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,320 Welcome to Forking Off the Podcast for People Who Said No 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,840 to Just Following Orders, where we explore the very personal 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:21,000 decisions behind leaving federal service, whether it was by 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,360 choice or by force. Every departure has a story, and 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,440 we're here to share them. This episode of Forking Off was 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:34,040 recorded in summer of 2025. Hey everybody, I'm Philip 8 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,040 Fields. Thank you for joining us today 9 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,760 on this episode of Forking Off. I've got my wife here, Jill 10 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,080 Fields. Jill, why don't you go ahead and 11 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:43,680 give us your bluff? All right. 12 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,240 Hi, I'm Jill Fields, and I was a supervisory intelligence analyst 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,680 and FBI's Los Angeles field office. 14 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,240 I took the second fork in the road. 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,600 Why don't you start everybody with some of your background? 16 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,360 Tell us more about you. I grew up in Mississippi. 17 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,920 Growing up, I always knew that I wanted to help people. 18 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:04,920 I wanted to do things to give back. 19 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,680 I went to college at a small school in Mississippi called 20 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,760 Mississippi University for Women, also known as the W After 21 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,760 I graduated, I decided that the best way for me to give back was 22 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,880 to work as an admissions count, an admissions counselor at the 23 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,920 West. After two years of working as an 24 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,040 admissions counselor, I was accepted at the University of 25 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,920 Mississippi School of Law. I'd always wanted to go to law 26 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,360 school. I wanted to learn more, I wanted 27 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:37,720 to help people out, and I loved every minute of my time at Ole 28 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:39,920 Miss. But I'm going to be the first to 29 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:41,480 tell you, like law school's hard. 30 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,680 I found a great group of friends who helped me out, who spent 31 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,880 every afternoon in the in the law library. 32 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,120 I was determined I was going to be able to graduate from law 33 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,800 school with honors, and I did. I ended up graduating cum laude 34 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,480 and I ended up moving back to my hometown of Vicksburg and 35 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,080 working at a small firm there. Working at a small town as an 36 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,320 attorney means that I did everything from family law cases 37 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:11,960 like divorces or child custody to wills and trusts to real 38 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,560 estate to civil litigation. But I had some had some pretty 39 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,760 bad things happen in my personal life. 40 00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:23,080 I decided to move across the country and make a new start for 41 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:24,280 myself. I backed up. 42 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,400 I moved to California. I studied for the California bar 43 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:32,600 exam and I passed it in 2008. When I moved out here, I also, I 44 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,600 met you, Philip. We got married very quickly. 45 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,400 It was great. I passed the bar exam. 46 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,800 I thought this was going to be fantastic. 47 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,360 I was going to just find a job and that was going to be it. 48 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,600 Well, I moved to California in 2008 at like the height of the 49 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,160 recession. I actually went and did some 50 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,560 research last week because we had been talking about this and 51 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,840 it was 1000 to 1500 attorneys being laid off every month. 52 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,960 So it was hard to find a job as an attorney out here. 53 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,920 But I still kept doing some legal contracts on the side. 54 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:08,400 I was doing appellate briefs, some legal memos. 55 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,640 I was reviewing contracts, negotiating contracts, and I was 56 00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:13,640 also working on some wills and trusts. 57 00:03:13,640 --> 00:03:18,280 We ended up moving to San Diego and I started volunteering at 58 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,200 the American Red Cross. That eventually turned into 59 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,160 being onboarded as a caseworker specialist in the Services to 60 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:29,200 the Armed Forces Branch. And then then we moved in 61 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,920 February of 2012 back to LA. You joined the FBI. 62 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,640 I was looking for a job. I volunteered. 63 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:37,960 I think it was the first week you went to work. 64 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,000 You came home and it was like the end of the week. 65 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,040 And you're like, Jill, there is this job and you would love it. 66 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,640 It is right up your alley. It's not being an attorney. 67 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,520 It's this thing. It's called an intelligence 68 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,000 analyst. And I was like, OK, what's that? 69 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:56,400 Because to me, the FBI was agents and arrests and doing all 70 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,600 these scary things. I mean, I knew Philip was there 71 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,400 as a staff operation specialist, but I thought that would just 72 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,520 parlay into becoming an agent. I really didn't know that there 73 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,440 was much else to do in the FBI. But you started telling me more 74 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,680 about it. And I was like, that's what I 75 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,960 want to do it. It was a way to like take my 76 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,800 skills as an attorney and apply them to something bigger, to 77 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,720 help people protect our nation from terrorists and spies and 78 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,400 violent criminals and do it all without a gun or having to do a 79 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,560 fit test and run. As soon as the position opened, 80 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:34,040 I applied. And then I waited and I waited 81 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,040 and I waited for four years to make it through the entire 82 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,000 process. There was sequestration. 83 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,440 There were hiring freezes. My application got lost at one 84 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,480 point in time. All of this, and I finally got 85 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,120 the offer to join the FBI as an intelligence analyst. 86 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,480 I joined in May of 2016. For those four years that I was 87 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,240 waiting, I was a stay at home mom. 88 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,440 Going to Quantico was terrifying. 89 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:04,280 I was leaving my 3 year old. Homesickness was absolutely 90 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,920 terrible and awful. I'm still not sure how it 91 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,600 managed, but I did it. I came back to LA as an 92 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,920 intelligence analyst in 2017. You ended up getting a transfer 93 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,120 to our counterterrorism division. 94 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,040 I went to the counterterrorism program as well. 95 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,240 I worked with some really amazing people and I got some 96 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,920 opportunities that I never would have gotten if we had stayed in 97 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,160 LA the entire time. My first year there, I got to 98 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,240 brief the Provost Marshall general of the US Army at the 99 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,440 Pentagon. Like that would never have 100 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,840 happened if I had just been in Lai. 101 00:05:36,840 --> 00:05:41,640 Also in 2019, was selected as one of the FBI's liaison 102 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,040 officers for CIA's Counterterrorism Mission Center. 103 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,560 In 2021, you got offered your office of preference for LA, 104 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,160 which I remember you called me and said, hey, so I got offered 105 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,000 an Office of reference. I got offered to Lai was like, 106 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,160 OK, that's great. And you said we have to make a 107 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,440 decision by close of Business Today whether or not we're going 108 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,880 to move back to LA. That was scary. 109 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,720 I called, I ended up calling a couple of friends from the LA 110 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,200 office, my first supervisor and my very first friend that I had 111 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,680 in the Bureau in LA. And I was like, OK guys, should 112 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,000 we come back? And they were like, you know, we 113 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:18,560 would love to have the fields is back. 114 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,600 When we came back, I had already applied for the supervisory 115 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,120 Intelligence Analyst position here in Lai, interviewed, I got 116 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,200 selected for the position, which completely blew my mind. 117 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:34,840 I started my job as an SIA January 2nd, 2022 and I loved 118 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:35,840 it. I loved that job. 119 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:38,880 It was fantastic. I loved my squad. 120 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,120 This was my place, these were my people. 121 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:44,720 And like, if I thought being an IA was my calling, this was my 122 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,960 destiny. My squad was the absolute best. 123 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:52,080 They were so open to coaching and mentoring and I couldn't 124 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:57,680 have asked for a better job. However, I did not love how the 125 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,600 Intel program in LA was being treated by the criminal program. 126 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,560 Criminal Program. The criminal investigative 127 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,480 program that's like your violent crime, your white collar crime, 128 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,400 your your transnational organized crime, your cartels, 129 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,760 things of that nature that are not in the national security, 130 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,720 the counterterrorism, counterintelligence realm. 131 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,880 And these are primarily the special agents investigating. 132 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,760 Those, yes, there are some amazing, amazing criminal agents 133 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,560 and there are some really great criminal programs that work very 134 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,400 well with the intelligence program. 135 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:35,520 In some cases, the intelligence program was just not treated as 136 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,160 much of an equal. And coming from national 137 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,320 security background, coming from counterterrorism program, you 138 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,840 have to have intelligence there. Intelligence, the intelligence 139 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,240 program is vital to counterterrorism and 140 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,120 counterintelligence. I mean counterintelligence. 141 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,680 It has it in the name and everyone on the national 142 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,840 security side knows if you don't have Intel in the room, your 143 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,320 operations are going to fail. Crim program didn't see it that 144 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,440 way. I can't tell you how many times 145 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,040 my analysts were told, hey, don't document that. 146 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,520 That's going to be discoverable. Discoverable. 147 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,800 Discoverable the information that gets handed over to the 148 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,320 prosecutor. So the prosecutor then goes 149 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,040 through and decides what needs to be passed over to the 150 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,160 defense. It is the legally required 151 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,360 constitutionally bound what you have to you have to Passover. 152 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,160 Here. They were worried about things 153 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:23,920 being discoverable. Here's the deal. 154 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:25,440 Once you do it, it's discoverable. 155 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,040 It doesn't matter if it's in a system of record, it doesn't 156 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,000 matter if it's in an e-mail, it doesn't matter if it's in a 157 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,760 chat, it doesn't matter if it's in a text. 158 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,080 Guess what? It's discoverable. 159 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:36,320 It was just really hard to understand because nobody was 160 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,080 going to do anything that was ever going to try to hurt a 161 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:40,520 case. You know, parts of the crime 162 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,960 program, They just wanted Intel to compile database findings. 163 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,640 And if Intel did anything other than that, we would start 164 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,200 getting complaints that we're putting the case in jeopardy or, 165 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,920 you know, get questions of why. Why is Intel digging through my 166 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,440 cases? And in one instance, one of my 167 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:57,800 analysts, they were doing their job. 168 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,160 They were working with the agents. 169 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,360 They ended up getting reprimanded and embarrassed in 170 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,520 the squad Bay Area for doing their job. 171 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,320 The behavior from OPS towards this analyst just continued on. 172 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,520 It got to the point that the analysts ended up quitting the 173 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,880 Bureau. There are times that even as a 174 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,480 supervisor, you can do so much, but you can't. 175 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,520 You can't fix every problem. And I tried, even jumped in and 176 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,360 tried to help. Even through all of this, even 177 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,160 through everything, amazingly enough, I still love loved my 178 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:27,840 job. I still loved it. 179 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:29,360 I loved it. I loved mission. 180 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,240 I loved the research. I loved the work. 181 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,720 I loved working with my squad. I loved working with other 182 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:36,360 agencies. I loved it. 183 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,280 I was I was thriving. I felt like I had hit my stride. 184 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,000 I thought everything was great. I loved my job. 185 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,880 All right, start off in LA, move to headquarters, do all of these 186 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,520 great things, stopping terrorists working at the CIA. 187 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,480 Come back to LA you're helping people chase down bank robbers 188 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,000 and gangs and all of this kind of stuff. 189 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:58,240 That all sounds pretty cool. Yeah. 190 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,560 It was, it was, it was cool. So then why did you leave? 191 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,160 What was it? There were a lot of reasons when 192 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,760 you took the DRP, which I was fully supportive of. 193 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,520 I was like, no, I got this, I'm going to keep doing this. 194 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,640 Like I was like, I can do this. I'm a survivor, I got this, I 195 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,640 can do it. I actually had started applying 196 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,960 to leadership positions back in DC. 197 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,320 This would be a really good time for us to go back to DC, to go 198 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,560 back to headquarters. I was selected for a job with 199 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:26,480 our weapons of mass destruction program. 200 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,280 I was super excited. The job itself was going to be a 201 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,280 cross between my national security background and this 202 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,400 grim background. I was going to be leading a 203 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,640 fusion cell. I was super excited. 204 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:41,520 With the new administration in place, though, and a new 205 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,800 director at the helm of the FBI, changes started coming and 206 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,000 changes started coming fairly quickly. 207 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,640 The director was quite vocal in the beginning about wanting to 208 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:54,720 move people out of the National Capital Region. 209 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,920 Well, I just got a job in the National Capital Region and he's 210 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,960 saying he wants to cut like, what was it, 1500 jobs from 211 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,200 headquarters and not just agents like wanted to push people out. 212 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:06,880 It's. Pretty critical of the 213 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,360 intelligence program at the time as well if I remember correctly. 214 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,320 Yes, yes, very critical of the intelligence program. 215 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,560 So the program that I was going to be joining, they actually 216 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:21,120 already had some people in Huntsville and doing work down 217 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,920 there. And the wonderful man who was 218 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,360 going to be my new supervisor at headquarters actually reached 219 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,600 out and he said, Jill, look, I don't know what's going to 220 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:32,360 happen here. We don't know what's happening. 221 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,200 Like we don't even know what's going to happen by the end of 222 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,000 today. He's like, I can't in good 223 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,280 conscience tell you, hey, yeah, everything's going to be great. 224 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,720 Your job's definitely going to be here and you're gonna, we're 225 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,680 gonna be doing the same things. I can't tell you that. 226 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,000 Like, I don't know. And I know you have a kid and I 227 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,680 know you're moving across the country specifically for this. 228 00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:54,120 And I don't know that this is actually going to be around. 229 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,600 We want you here, but just know, like we don't know what's going 230 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,720 on. So there was the prospect you 231 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,920 pack up your family, move from Los Angeles to DC, and then get 232 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,000 told you're moving to Huntsville, AL. 233 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,120 Move to Huntsville or move to any other field office because 234 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,560 there was there was talk at that time about hey, we want to push 235 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:16,200 a lot of people to these high crime cities. 236 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,840 We had already expended a pretty significant amount of effort not 237 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,080 moving to Huntsville. Yes, we had. 238 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,120 We had, we had. We had spent a lot of effort 239 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,080 trying not to get to Huntsville before. 240 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:32,320 We discussed a lot. We prayed a lot about this and I 241 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,600 made the extremely difficult, the decision not to take the job 242 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,640 in DCI, didn't want to uproot our family and move across the 243 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,120 country to then have the rug pulled out from under me. 244 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,760 Didn't want to do that. So it's like, all right, I'll 245 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,720 stay in LA. LA is a great place. 246 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,480 We'll just keep our heads down, just keep pushing forward, keep 247 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,320 going. I love my squad. 248 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,080 They were happy that I was changing my mind and I was going 249 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:55,960 to stay. You know, I figured, let's give 250 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,160 it some time. Other opportunities will come 251 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,600 about. We'll know better where we are 252 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,560 and how things are going to shake out with this 253 00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:04,240 administration. We'll be good. 254 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,000 I'll just keep my head down. Soldier on. 255 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,320 Before we move on, do you know what happened to the fusion cell 256 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:10,360 that you were going to be leading? 257 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:11,920 Oh yeah, it doesn't exist. It's gone. 258 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,800 This was a properly calculated decision. 259 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,760 Yes, the unit I was going to still exist, but that program is 260 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,120 gone. So I decided to say but but more 261 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:25,040 things started changing. The FBI changed its focus and 262 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,720 changed its priorities. I was directed to lead some 263 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:35,000 projects that made me extremely, extremely uncomfortable. 264 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,920 And not, not uncomfortable in a good way, like, oh, we're 265 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:39,840 growing. This is just something new. 266 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,560 No, this was just really, really uncomfortable. 267 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:47,960 And they were getting really close to my line in the sand of 268 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,840 what I would do and what was constitutional. 269 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,840 So I was directed to lead these projects and I was told I 270 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,200 couldn't say no. This is what I was going to do. 271 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:02,360 I was also told that I could go ahead and get fired today or I 272 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,360 get fired in four years. I had one supervisor say to me, 273 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,240 I know this is wrong, but what am I supposed to do? 274 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,560 I've been ordered to do this. For what it's worth, I did say 275 00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:14,600 no and I did push back, and I was still put in charge of these 276 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,120 projects. By standing up and by saying no, 277 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,120 I'm pretty sure I was labeled as problematic and difficult. 278 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,120 I mean, to be told that I was right, that I have to acquiesce 279 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,000 was very difficult. I made sure within these 280 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,320 projects that we stayed within the bounds of long. 281 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,520 We stayed within our mission at the FBI. 282 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,480 I felt that we were getting extremely close to that line 283 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:40,880 though, and it was getting to the point that I knew I wasn't 284 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,240 going to be able to say no forever without feeling major 285 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,640 repercussions, which makes the rest of this really hard. 286 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,160 All this was going on. There was something else going 287 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,720 on in the background. There was an SSA who was trying 288 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,520 to get rid of me. The SSA did not like the 289 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:01,040 intelligence program and he wanted someone he could control. 290 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,120 He ended up sidestepping chain of command. 291 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,160 He went directly to the assistant director in charge, 292 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,760 Akhil Davis, to say that he couldn't work with me and that I 293 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,680 was causing problems and that he wanted me moved. 294 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,920 At no point during this time did Adik Davis ever talk to me or my 295 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,600 analysts about any of this. Adic Davis gave orders to the 296 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:26,080 Intelligence SAC Special Agent in charge to remove me from all 297 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:31,840 of my programs and the Intel SAC refused to remove me from all of 298 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:33,640 my programs. I was removed from that one 299 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,200 program of which I had asked two years before. 300 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:38,640 Please remove me from this program. 301 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,440 I think this relationship is too far gone. 302 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,000 I was the 4th SIA to go into that program and have problems 303 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,600 with it. Some might say it was less about 304 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,200 you and more about the other person in that relationship. 305 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,480 You know, some would say that, yeah. 306 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:59,080 Anyway, Intel SAC was very upset about being told to remove me 307 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,320 from my programs. She said, look, I'm not going to 308 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,680 remove you from all of your programs because you were too 309 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,760 ingrained in the programs and you have been. 310 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,200 Your team needs you. So she removed that one program 311 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,760 which was removing 2SOS's and actually giving me a larger 312 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,240 program in place of that. Two days after the Intel, SAC 313 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,600 was placed on leave and the director had removed her from 314 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,480 her position. You've been having problems with 315 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,240 this person for quite a while. You had seen that it wasn't 316 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:25,880 going to get better. At this point. 317 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,280 They had gone around you. They had gone all the way to the 318 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,680 head of the office, hadn't been handled well. 319 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:35,520 Your SAC had been told to remove you from all of your duties. 320 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,160 They refused. They did remove the one 321 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,480 problematic program, and then they were placed on 322 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,280 administrative leave. Yes. 323 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,360 What happened next? The acting Intel SAC told me 324 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,560 that I was going to be removed from the criminal intelligence 325 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,960 program and that he was going to place me in charge of the field 326 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,160 office's strategic partnerships program. 327 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:00,760 And what's so funny about this is he was taking me away from 328 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,440 the criminal program, saying that it was a relationship 329 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,839 problem and then was going to put me in charge of all of our 330 00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:10,640 strategic partnerships, which is our private sector program. 331 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,480 So with all of the companies, all of the all of these things, 332 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,480 DSAC, Infra Garden, all of these programs with the private 333 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,319 sector. So the accusation is that you 334 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,040 can't relate well with people in the office and you're damaging 335 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,160 the FBI. So the solution is to have you 336 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:32,800 go out and represent the FBI with Fortune 500 companies and 337 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,920 other government agents. Right, right. 338 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:38,680 OK, so, so away from that. And I'm even told, like everyone 339 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:40,840 says you're so great with this, like you've been doing this 340 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,720 topic coordinator thing, you built these barking groups, 341 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,600 you've done all this. It's also great. 342 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,720 Like this is great. And I was like, I really don't 343 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,120 want to do this. So I mean, I, I did, I asked it 344 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:55,240 acting until SAC why was I never talked to about the problems 345 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,440 that were apparently going on and apparently that I was 346 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,840 causing. And he said the addict said he 347 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:06,640 didn't go to me or my personnel or any other individuals, any 348 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:11,120 other supervisors, because this was not a personnel matter and 349 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:13,600 that they only needed to talk to the current program and they 350 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,720 didn't need to. I talked to the Intel program 351 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,520 and that was that. And I was also told during this 352 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,280 meeting that the 7th floor was aware of me and was aware of 353 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,680 these problems, including my push backs. 354 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,800 And the 7th floor for anybody who. 355 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,120 Seventh, yeah. So 7th floor means the 356 00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:34,520 director's office in DC. I was basically told I should 357 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,840 take this change of position and once again keep my head down 358 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,960 South. The deferred resignation program 359 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,800 2 Point O was offered around that same time. 360 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:48,160 I saw the e-mail, came home and I was like, so they're offering 361 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,800 it again. The e-mail had come out before I 362 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,240 was moved to strategic partnerships. 363 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,960 So when I was moved I still had like 2 days to decide. 364 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,000 I wasn't sure. I went ahead and said yes. 365 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,560 I went ahead and sent the e-mail saying I'm going to take the 366 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,160 deferred resignation. But I talked to my supervisor at 367 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,680 the time and I told him, hey, look, I said yes to this. 368 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,000 But I mean, it's going to be a couple of weeks before they say 369 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,080 whether or not I can take this or not. 370 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,520 Because there's always, I mean with the deferred resignation 371 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,840 program, there's the point where they can say no, you can't take 372 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:24,680 it and you have to stay in the position. 373 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,760 OI talked to my boss. I told him, hey, I said yes. 374 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:30,800 But you know what? I'm giving this a shot. 375 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,600 I'm not saying no to this. This may end U being a dream 376 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:34,600 job. I may love it. 377 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,920 I may absolutely think this greatest thing ever. 378 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,600 It wasn't. I mean, it was that team. 379 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,400 I don't want to say the team wasn't great because the team 380 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,440 was. But to leave my squad and to be 381 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,880 pushed aside and taken off of all of the programs that I had 382 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:54,200 worked so very hard to build and to know that they were willing 383 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,480 to just throw me to the side. So on Tuesday, May 6th, I got 384 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,680 the e-mail confirmation that I was accepted for the deferred 385 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,400 resignation program. So you got accepted into the 386 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,240 program, you got the contract, brought it home. 387 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:13,040 You and I sat down. I was still trying to hang on to 388 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,640 everything. This was my dream job. 389 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,640 This was what I wanted to do. This was where I wanted to be in 390 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,000 everything. And Phillip, you said something 391 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,920 that just started putting everything into perspective. 392 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,600 You asked me, can you come up with a reason to stay that 393 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,600 doesn't sound like a battered spouse? 394 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,720 And I mean, like, what a punch in the gut, like what a like 395 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,480 just putting it into perspective that way, like, man. 396 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,160 And then the best was you're like, OK, so I'm just going to 397 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:46,120 leave you with that. Now up to this point, a lot of 398 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:50,240 the justifications that you had been giving, I need to stay for 399 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,880 my squad. What's going to happen to them? 400 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,720 I need to protect them. I need to be there for them. 401 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,000 They need me. I mean, that was that was a lot 402 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,840 of my justification was definitely very much outside of 403 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,880 myself. I need the money, I need the 404 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,040 paycheck, we need the insurance, we need everything. 405 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,960 There were so many things. I had a lot to think about. 406 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:12,200 I was like, OK, well, I'm going to sleep on this. 407 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,360 So later that evening, we're sitting on the couch, we're 408 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:17,160 watching TV, and my best friend called me. 409 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,720 Now, she does not call during the week, but she called. 410 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,720 And I really, really thought something was wrong. 411 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,560 But instead she was like, Oh my gosh, I just got off the phone 412 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,280 with someone and I knew I had to call you immediately. 413 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,040 And she started telling me the story about the person she was 414 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,400 talking to who had been through like had been through hell at 415 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,800 their job for the last like year, year and a half. 416 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,880 They had just, I mean, it had really affected them mentally, 417 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,040 physically, emotionally, just really at them. 418 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,720 And that there had been one person who had just been making 419 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,720 their life an absolute living hell at work. 420 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,360 And I was like, are you talking to me about me? 421 00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:53,600 Like, really, Come on. And she was like, no, she was 422 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,920 like, but I mean, they called me to let me know that today they'd 423 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,760 had it. They walked into their boss's 424 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,640 office today and they said, I quit. 425 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,440 I am done. And they called me to say, look, 426 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,760 I'm, I'm out of this. Like I did it. 427 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:06,680 I quit. I quit. 428 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,800 It'll be OK. I'll find another job. 429 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,480 You know, I'll do whatever. Like, it will be OK. 430 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,240 But I can't do this anymore. I had to get off the phone with 431 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,200 him and call you because I think you should quit your job. 432 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,960 So I'm just sitting there and my best friend has just told me I 433 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,040 want you to quit your job. I think you need to quit your 434 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:24,520 job. She didn't know that I'd gotten 435 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,160 the paperwork. She didn't know any of this. 436 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,600 And I'm just sitting there going, holy crap. 437 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,280 Wow. I did not realize how bad this 438 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,440 had gotten. And my best friend said, look, I 439 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,760 haven't seen you happy in a really long time. 440 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,640 And you deserve to be happy and you deserve better than how 441 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,040 you've been treated over these past couple of years. 442 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:43,880 I don't think it's worth it for you to be there anymore. 443 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:45,240 And she's like, it's your decision. 444 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,120 Like you do whatever you want. And I was like, well, I just got 445 00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:51,480 the paperwork that says I've been accepted for the deferred 446 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,040 resignation program and I can take it. 447 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:54,480 And she was like, well, I think you should. 448 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,640 I was like, OK, So I cried. I slept on it. 449 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,600 And the next day, I went into the office. 450 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,040 I went to the acting Intel SAC's office, and I said, hey, here's 451 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,600 my paperwork. I need you to sign it. 452 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,920 We talked for a little while. He was like, Jill, come on, 453 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:09,880 like, you're really good at this. 454 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,360 You just got a new program like this is going to be OK. 455 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:13,360 You're going to be able to do it. 456 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:15,800 He's really kind. I mean, he, I mean, just having 457 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,560 those words said to me did make me say, well, maybe, maybe I 458 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,080 shouldn't. But I just looked at him and I 459 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:22,800 was like, no, like, I can't do this. 460 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,560 My husband's already compared this to being in an abusive 461 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,640 relationship. My best friend is saying I think 462 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,040 you need to quit your job. So I took the deferred 463 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,520 resignation. I left. 464 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,640 All right, so I emotionally punched you in the stomach. 465 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,560 Yeah. And then your friend told you to 466 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,040 quit your job, but this was your decision. 467 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,880 It was, it was absolutely my decision. 468 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,840 It was just a very hard decision to leave these people, to leave 469 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,640 this mission that I feel so passionately about. 470 00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:05,600 But things had changed and I did not see them getting better and 471 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,400 I wasn't going to be able to do the things that I felt were 472 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,840 necessary for my job. Looking back on it now, you've 473 00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:15,480 had a little bit of time to think about it, is there 474 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,360 anything that you think would have changed your decision? 475 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:23,000 You know, maybe if leadership had talked to me sooner, maybe 476 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,360 if they had listened to me, maybe if other people had had 477 00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:32,000 the nerve to say no, if others had been willing to stand up 478 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,960 with me, which there were some, I do want to qualify that there 479 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,960 were some. I, I really think it boils down 480 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,480 to there was such a lack of support from leadership and 481 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,520 there was a lot of acquiescence to some directions that were not 482 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,520 in line with the mission of the FBI. 483 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:54,000 But here's the thing. People knew that I had said no 484 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,080 to certain things and people knew that I had pushed back. 485 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,640 And people came to me privately on multiple occasions to 486 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,880 basically pat me on the back and say, you know, everybody needs 487 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,400 to be more like this or, you know, wow, thanks for doing 488 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:09,800 that. You're so brave. 489 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,760 I don't know if I could have stood up to them. 490 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:22,200 And I don't look at me saying no or me pushing back as it being 491 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:28,960 brave or, you know, being something like me standing up to 492 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,680 someone. I, I don't see that as me like 493 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,880 standing up to them or anything. It it was me just upholding my 494 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,040 oath. It was just me saying, hey, I'm 495 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,680 not so sure about this. Hey, stop, we need to ask some 496 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,760 more questions. Hey, what are we doing here? 497 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,600 So to be patted on the back privately and have people say 498 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,600 like, dude, I don't know that I could do that. 499 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,360 Like, but you were so right and I'm so glad. 500 00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:56,920 And I wish more people were like you. 501 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,520 Well, you know what? Be like me. 502 00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:02,440 I mean, as much as I hate, I mean, I am a mess, but be like 503 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:08,080 me, you know, push back. Because saying no, it's not 504 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,640 saying no. It's saying yes. 505 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,960 It's saying yes to doing the right thing. 506 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,400 It's saying yes to upholding your oath to uphold the 507 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,160 Constitution, to protect the American people, to do the 508 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,880 things within the bounds of the Constitution that we're supposed 509 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,240 to do. So right now, I don't think so. 510 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,400 I don't. I don't think that there's 511 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,000 anything that could have been done to change my decision 512 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,760 except for change everything that happened in the prior 678 513 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,000 months. I'm glad you mentioned that, I 514 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:47,240 had similar experiences with people coming and saying hey 515 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,560 what is happening here is so wrong. 516 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:54,960 I wish I could do what you're doing but ultimately not being 517 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,240 able to. And I think even now some of 518 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,600 those people are still there thinking that. 519 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:06,160 Well, I've, I've kept my hands clean through most of The Dirty 520 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,400 parts so far. So I think I can, I can stay out 521 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,280 of it and I think I can, you know, keep my conscience clean. 522 00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:16,320 Yeah. And, and I'm glad you say that. 523 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,200 Like there are there are people that are there that are still 524 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,960 there and there are good people, really, really good people that 525 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,520 are still there. And this was something I had a 526 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,040 conversation with a senior executive who has since left the 527 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,440 Bureau. And I was asking some questions 528 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,240 about, you know, what do I do when, when my squad individually 529 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,720 calling and asking and saying like, hey, what do you think I 530 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,960 should do? This person told me, you know 531 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,560 what, you support them. You tell them to stay as long as 532 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,880 they will allow you to stay and you stay there as long as you 533 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,240 can still do your job and do it correctly. 534 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,280 And they also pointed out everybody's not in the same 535 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,080 situation that we're in. And I'm not saying that we're in 536 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,440 a great situation or that we were, you know, oh, we're so 537 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,880 stable that we can manage. But like, I do think that we're 538 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,560 fortunate. We are fortunate enough and that 539 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,600 we're able to still make it for a while. 540 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,800 And not everybody is in that same situation and not everybody 541 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,440 has the support system that we have. 542 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,560 I absolutely do not judge anyone for staying, but if you're going 543 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,760 to stay, you still have to uphold your. 544 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,680 Stay for the right reasons. Stay for the right reasons. 545 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,760 All right, So you've fit in a pretty rough situation for a 546 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,640 little while, got out of there. What have you been doing since? 547 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,960 First thing I did was I got a good night's sleep. 548 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,920 I actually slept. I have taken time to step back 549 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,000 and reevaluate what I want to be doing, where I'd like to go 550 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,720 next. I've worked on my TBR list, my 551 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,160 to be read list. I think since May I have read 10 552 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,280 books. I've taken time to breathe. 553 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,600 I've really just been spending time remembering who I am. 554 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,120 I feel like for the past couple of years I was making myself 555 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,640 smaller and smaller at at work because some people didn't like 556 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,120 me speaking up or standing up for others. 557 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,920 They didn't like that I asked questions or had an alternate 558 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,400 opinion. I am tired of making myself 559 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,600 small. Any new hobbies or? 560 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:23,200 Yeah, so besides reading, I have been looking into voice acting 561 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:23,720 all. Right. 562 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,360 So when in LA. Exactly when in LA. 563 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,920 Is that the plan? Yeah, voice acting. 564 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,440 No, no, no, that is not the plan whatsoever. 565 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,840 I reactivated my California bar license. 566 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,200 Now, I kept my Mississippi bar active because I had been taking 567 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,600 the FBI's legal advisor course to assist with the General 568 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,200 Counsel's office and the Chief Division Counsel's office. 569 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,760 I have started looking for jobs. I've been looking like in the 570 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,800 intelligence field and in security. 571 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,120 Also looking at attorney positions. 572 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,480 For the attorney positions I've mainly right now been looking at 573 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,000 privacy and compliance roles because that's most of what my 574 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,840 experience in the FBI would relate best to. 575 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,440 I'm also studying for the Certified Information Privacy 576 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,440 Professional exam and we've also been talking about setting up an 577 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,760 intelligence or security Co-op. All right. 578 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,760 Is there any situation where you think that you might consider 579 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,840 going back to the Bureau or back to government? 580 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:27,040 Yeah, right now, that's a no. Sometime in the future, maybe 581 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,840 under different leadership, yes. I think there's some things that 582 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,080 need to change. But yeah, under different 583 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:34,880 leadership, yeah. All right. 584 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,840 Well, thank you so much, Jill for all of your time and thanks 585 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,040 for forking off. Thanks for tuning into this 586 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,880 episode of Forking Off. To our listeners still in 587 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,240 government, remember your integrity is worth more than 588 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,200 your TSP. Leaving doesn't mean giving up 589 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,400 on public service, it just means finding new ways to serve. 590 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,920 Until next time. Keep your ethics. 591 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,400 Keep your dignity. And we'll keep telling these 592 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,840 stories. If you're a former Fed with a 593 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,600 story to tell, or you're wrestling with your own ethical 594 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,160 crossroads, reach out to us at info@forkingoff.com. 595 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,680 Today's episode was created, produced and edited by Jill and 596 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,440 Phillip Fields. You can find more information 597 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,280 about this episode at forkingoff.com. 598 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,800 Also follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Blue Sky, Mastodon, 599 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,840 LinkedIn, or wherever you get your podcasts.