1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,320 What the fork? OK, OK, let's. 2 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,000 Try this again. Welcome to forking off. 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,720 The podcast for people who said. No to just following orders. 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,840 Where we explore the very. Personal decisions behind 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:20,920 leaving. Federal service Whether by 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,960 choice or by force, every departure has a story, and we're 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,800 here to share them. Hi and welcome to this episode 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,439 of Forking Off I'm Jill Fields. And I'm Philip Fields. 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,000 And today we have with us Mike Johnson. 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,480 Hi, Mike. Hi, how are you all today? 11 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,520 Doing great. We're so glad to have you. 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,000 So, Mike, why don't we get started with your bottom line 13 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,080 upfront, your bluff? Sure. 14 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:50,560 I'm born and raised in Vermont. Spent the six years after high 15 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,840 school enlisted in the Navy as an interior communications 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,320 electrician. Deployed twice overseas, got out 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,760 of call or got out of the Navy in 2011 and went to college, 18 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,400 Attended Penn State, where I got my degree in public relations. 19 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,720 After that, I have spent the last nine years working in 20 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:11,920 various roles for the Department of State. 21 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,720 Why don't we go to the happy part of what you were doing at 22 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,520 State Department and the great work you were doing there? 23 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,320 Sure. So in my 9 years with the 24 00:01:22,320 --> 00:01:25,080 department, I held various roles. 25 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:31,120 I started with the department on Halloween of 2016 as a staff 26 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,160 assistant in the Assistant Secretary of State for 27 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:39,280 Administration's front office. Mostly kind of just doing admin 28 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,920 work. And then when the transition to 29 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,360 the first Trump presidency happened, we kind of got 30 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,240 downsized. I also took on some OMS office 31 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,400 manager kind of stuff and was doing that for a few years. 32 00:01:54,400 --> 00:02:00,680 I was there for four years and then transitioned from that to 33 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:05,760 the public affairs office in our East Asian and Pacific Island 34 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:10,080 Bureau and did public affairs work for about two years. 35 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,400 It was kind of getting back to my public relations roots and 36 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,240 doing work there. It was non-stop as you can 37 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:22,920 probably imagine with anything from COVID going on to the semi 38 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:25,800 frequent missile launches from North Korea. 39 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,960 There was the military coup in Burma at the time, plus 40 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,360 earthquakes and volcanoes and just everything. 41 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,320 Natural disasters and man made as well. 42 00:02:38,920 --> 00:02:43,920 Yes, and throw on top of that the fact that that region is 12 43 00:02:43,920 --> 00:02:47,440 to 13 hours ahead of us. Most of the time when we were 44 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,680 getting ready to end our day and go to sleep, they were spinning 45 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,440 up their day and things were happening. 46 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,960 So it was very fast-paced, very interesting work. 47 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,560 I loved it, loved the people I worked with. 48 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:03,000 Then I was actually offered a very unique position still with 49 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,600 the department to work in presidential appointments where, 50 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,720 yeah, I, I loved it. Again, working with amazing 51 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,120 people, doing some really amazing work. 52 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,600 We worked exclusively with people who went through Senate 53 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,280 confirmation for the department. This includes ambassadors, 54 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,040 assistant secretaries of state, under secretaries of state and 55 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,000 all the way up to the deputy Secretary of State. 56 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,160 The Secretary of State goes through his own process that we 57 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:35,320 were not involved in, but I was there for another, What, 2 1/2 58 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,600 years and got to do some really amazing work. 59 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:43,080 We did everything from starting their background checks to 60 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,320 writing their letters of credence and recall that they 61 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,200 would take with them and present to the heads of state when they 62 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,200 would arrive at post. I got to meet a lot of really 63 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,320 interesting ambassadors. Ambassadorial nominees got to go 64 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,360 to the White House multiple times for swearing in ceremonies 65 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,600 for ambassadors, which was a place that a kid from Vermont 66 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:05,800 doesn't think they're going to end up. 67 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,320 But I was standing feet from the last vice president, and that 68 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,520 was just a very shocking moment for me. 69 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,120 I had to kind of remember to close my mouth and not. 70 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,920 Not gay bad. Yeah, not gay too much as she 71 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,480 started speaking. And I had moments in the 72 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,160 beginning where I was like, I've seen you on TV and it's like, 73 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,680 well, yeah, it's like a real person, but you don't expect to 74 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:28,560 be in the same room as the vice president. 75 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:33,160 And so really, really amazing opportunity there. 76 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:38,640 Then I moved in January over to the Bureau of Overseas Buildings 77 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,360 Operations, still with the State Department working in the Office 78 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,840 of Policy and Program Analysis as a management and program 79 00:04:46,840 --> 00:04:49,960 analyst. I ended up there starting on 80 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:54,640 January 20th and then I left there in July. 81 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,400 So I I was only there for a short amount of time. 82 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,400 Again, really interesting people, really interesting work. 83 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,040 OBO, Overseas Buildings Operations. 84 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,840 He's all about building and maintaining embassies and 85 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:08,480 consulates. So it was interesting for me to 86 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,680 get back into writing a little bit. 87 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,280 This was going to be a writing position and working with kind 88 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:18,080 of technical experts because I have a bit of a background in 89 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,360 electricity for my time in the Navy. 90 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,360 And so it kind of fused 2 of my interests. 91 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,560 And I also thought it would be a really good place to kind of 92 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,920 work where it's buildings. Like, I didn't think that would 93 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,120 be a place I would have to kind of worry about my future, but 94 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,240 not, not to spoil anything upcoming. 95 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:37,960 But that's not how it turned out. 96 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,720 Yeah. Speaking of that, I mean, you 97 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,880 would think buildings safe, but we need to make sure that our 98 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,200 buildings are safe, our embassies are safe. 99 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,880 Yeah. So he left in July. 100 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,200 What happened? Well, if I if I can rephrase 101 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,480 that slightly, I was asked to leave in July. 102 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,120 I was part of the reduction in force that happened at the 103 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,680 department in July, so I was put on administrative leave and was 104 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,040 on administrative leave until September. 105 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,040 Then September was my final official day with the 106 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,920 department. So I'm curious you, you 107 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,400 mentioned that you'd moved into that role on January 20th, like 108 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,440 was this something that you? Had already sort of. 109 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,640 You were trying to move towards. I had been looking at other 110 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,760 positions since November of the previous year. 111 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,880 A Co worker had kind of just randomly spoken to me about OBO 112 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,440 and how she thought I would be a really good fit for that Bureau. 113 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,240 And so it kind of was just like good luck that I was like, Oh 114 00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:40,960 yeah, I remembered seeing there's a position that I could 115 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:45,560 laterally transfer into in OBO. And so it kind of started. 116 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,600 I interviewed in November and then the slow process of kind of 117 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,200 getting my clearances checked, and all of those things didn't 118 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,920 happen until right after Christmas. 119 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,400 I think I interviewed right before Thanksgiving. 120 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:03,000 I found out I was accepted for the position right after 121 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:07,200 Christmas. I let my office know and that's 122 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,960 when they sort of set up the time frame for me leaving. 123 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,920 That was done at levels above my head, but I do know there was 124 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,560 consideration taken into moving me simply because there was the 125 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,160 expectation of a potential hiring freeze. 126 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,840 That's just like, really. Fateful timing like this was a 127 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:23,840 role. That you had sought. 128 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,800 Out and then had. The rug pulled out. 129 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,640 From you afterwards. Unfortunately. 130 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,720 So Mike, we had talked before about like how you found out and 131 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,560 when you found out and how much time you had to get out of 132 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,040 there. So why don't, why don't you 133 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,640 share with everyone else what that time frame and how 134 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,920 everything worked out? Because I mean, this is that's 135 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,560 the middle of summer. Everybody's on vacation. 136 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:50,960 Yeah, it was a bit weird. And that I came into the 137 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,840 position in January and everybody was kind of sort of 138 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,760 waiting on the reorganization to come out. 139 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,120 There was a lot of rumors flying, which I never put a 140 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,800 whole lot of value into. We all felt very safe. 141 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,520 Leadership in the Bureau thought we were at all be very safe. 142 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,520 And so we kind of kept chugging along, doing our work like we're 143 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,800 supposed to. And then in April, I finally got 144 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:23,080 to attend a mandatory leadership course that I was overdue for by 145 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:28,000 a few years because of COVID and then prioritization of foreign 146 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,520 service officers and then a busy schedule for me. 147 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,919 I was a little overdue for it. So I was over at the Foreign 148 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:38,080 Service Institute, FSI, spent the week over there doing this 149 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,679 wonderful leadership course that they do, and was feeling 150 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,680 incredibly kind of reinvigorated and excited and thinking about 151 00:08:44,680 --> 00:08:50,320 the fact that not only do I want to lead people again, but I 152 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,920 think I'd be good at it. Like, I'm excited about this and 153 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,920 I need to start taking the next steps to kind of position myself 154 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,440 for more formal leadership positions within the department. 155 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:04,000 I think it was maybe Tuesday of that week the reorganization 156 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,120 came out. It was just kind of an 157 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:10,040 organizational chart. Obo was still on there. 158 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,080 Everything, everything looked normal. 159 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,320 I had classmates whose offices were totally removed. 160 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:21,120 So like, that was a very weird day in Class A lot, very 161 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,800 emotional day for a lot of people finding out that they 162 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,040 we're not gonna have a job anymore. 163 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,880 And I sort of was there and trying to support them and 164 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,760 continue to not think much about it and then left and went home. 165 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,320 And again, nothing really going on. 166 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,880 And I come back for the third day of the class, I think on 167 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,280 Wednesday. And again, we're moving through 168 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:45,120 the day and I go for a break and my supervisor had a very 169 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,120 wonderful rule where like, I'm only going to kind of call you 170 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,120 if the building's on fire. And so I take my phone out and 171 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:53,920 look, and I'm like, oh, I got a, a missed call from my 172 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:55,920 supervisor. I got a better, better call her 173 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:57,480 back. This is pretty serious. 174 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:02,160 And that's when I found out that my office was being dissolved 175 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,240 and we would no longer be part of the department. 176 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,360 So it was, it was a rough way to find out because I was going 177 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,160 from like feeling really, really good about what I wanted to be 178 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,120 doing within the organization to finding out that I would no 179 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,760 longer be a part of the organization. 180 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,800 That is wild. That is so wild for especially 181 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,480 saying like the day before an e-mail sent out with people 182 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:29,320 finding out along with everyone else, my job, my department, my 183 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,880 office is no longer is no longer going to be there like I you 184 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,160 can't imagine the emotions and and then to think you're safe 185 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,240 that day and then the next day to get the phone call like I'm 186 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:45,800 sorry, I'm so. Sorry, I, I mean, I'm, I'm sorry 187 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,440 for everybody else as well. And it's, it's tough on all of 188 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,760 us, I think. And I was particularly shocked 189 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,840 because I knew that they had been telling us they would be 190 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,640 taking into account 10 year status, which I had, and 191 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,040 military veteran status, which I have, and your ratings, which 192 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,240 have been nothing but the highest ratings for me since my 193 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,320 time in the military. So I I personally, beyond 194 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,560 anything else, felt very safe given my history and given the 195 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:19,000 kind of checks I had that I felt would keep me from being removed 196 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,560 from the organization. So they just did away with the. 197 00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:27,280 Whole department though. No, OBO still exists, so the 198 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,760 Bureau within the department still exists. 199 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,120 Honestly, at this point, I'm not sure if the office still exists 200 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,680 or if it's been renamed, if it's been removed. 201 00:11:36,680 --> 00:11:40,320 I know there are still. We were a team of what I think 202 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,800 about 12 people. There are two contractors who 203 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:50,200 last I knew were doing the work of everybody who was there, and 204 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,400 I think they might be trying to bring on other contractors, but 205 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,000 I, again, can't really speak with any real authority on that 206 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,040 anymore. Yeah, I know that's a tough spot 207 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:00,680 to be in too. If you're one of those two 208 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:02,960 contractors, you're now responsible. 209 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,520 For the work of. Ten other people and making sure 210 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,040 that your company doesn't lose its contract. 211 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:14,160 I, I have a lot of sympathy for them, knowing one of them rather 212 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:15,480 well. I, I feel for them. 213 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,840 And it's, yeah, it's a very impossible situation for the 214 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,000 people who have to remain to be put in as well. 215 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,160 Yeah. I'm always so amazed by the 216 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:28,560 different stories just because you start realizing it's almost 217 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,800 a thoughtlessness of what happens when you get rid of 218 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,480 everyone that's been doing the work and you place all of that 219 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,920 burden on someone who is a contractor. 220 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,200 They're they're, they're on a contract. 221 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,000 They're not necessarily going to be there in six months because 222 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,160 contracts do expire at some point. 223 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,560 And then to possibly have to bring in new contractors to 224 00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:58,240 manage who like you've lost your organizational knowledge, you've 225 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,600 lost that. That's my that's my tangent. 226 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:05,360 I'm just so you. You thought you had a future. 227 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:07,880 With State Department. OK, good. 228 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:09,280 I was going to say I still have a future. 229 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,200 No, you definitely have a. Future. 230 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,360 You sorry, that's my my poor pausing and timing. 231 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,000 No, Mike, you definitely have a future, but the future that you 232 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,760 saw is just it disappeared. How are you? 233 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,200 How are you managing that? How are you handling that? 234 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,040 I think as well as I can, I would start by saying I'm 235 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,960 incredibly fortunate to have an incredibly supportive 236 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:36,480 girlfriend, incredibly supportive parents and sister, 237 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:41,120 great friends both locally and out of the area who have just 238 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,920 been really supportive people from my past who have reached 239 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,080 out to me to help. I mean, one of one of your 240 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,360 previous guests, Captain Cordle, I served under him on the San 241 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,680 Jacinto when I went on my second deployment. 242 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,040 He continues to just be one of the most amazing people I know 243 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,080 and constantly willing. So highly, he thinks. 244 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,840 So, so highly of you. I do my best to live up to those 245 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:10,560 expectations cuz he truly is an amazing person and I probably 246 00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:15,000 fall short most days, but I hope to some baby the person he 247 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,640 thinks I am. But I, I do think the world of 248 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,800 him, he's been amazing a lot. And I've been trying to take 249 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,840 advantage of a lot of the good resources that are out there. 250 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,920 I mean, fortunately as a veteran, there are things out 251 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,600 there that I can kind of tap into, whether it be Wounded 252 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,320 Warrior Project, there's a lot of employment stuff. 253 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,320 The state of Virginia has a veteran's office that does work 254 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,360 with that. I've been talking to people from 255 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,720 my university who still Remember Me and want to help me and it's 256 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,040 made it better. Like it's, it's a tough time. 257 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,920 I think for all of us. The best thing I've found is 258 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,600 just like tapping into my network, reconnecting with 259 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,880 people and trying to try to help people where I can. 260 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,200 One of the things that was that I got to do at the department 261 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,600 that I really love to doing was I was part of the veterans 262 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,920 mentorship program and I was able to mentor two kind of 263 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:12,080 junior veterans coming into the department on life at the State 264 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,840 Department and, and started making connections for them. 265 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,840 It was a little bit odd because we were having conversations at 266 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,240 the time where they thought they were gonna lose their jobs. 267 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,160 And the irony of it all is I have been asked to no longer 268 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,760 participate in the government and they still have their jobs. 269 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,720 So they did something right. Hopefully I gave them some sort 270 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,880 of tip that kept them around. I'm trying to get re involved in 271 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,760 things. I'm volunteering to work with 272 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,800 veterans at my alma mater. So that's going to be really 273 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,080 great. I'm excited to kind of get that 274 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,240 kicked off. And I just started working with 275 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,320 Team Rubicon and doing some volunteer work with them. 276 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,800 Just did work at a food shelter locally last week. 277 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:53,160 So while I am job hunting and trying to find my next position, 278 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,960 I'm trying to kind of build out the rest of my life and keep 279 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,760 that moving in the right direction as well. 280 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,200 And I found that to be very, very helpful. 281 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,280 Plus it gets me out of the apartment because there are 282 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,720 those days where I stay home and I look for jobs and I network 283 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,880 and I apply to jobs. And then my girlfriend gets home 284 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:10,600 at the end of the night and I have all this pent up energy 285 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,560 because I haven't talked to another human all day. 286 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,280 And I think she appreciates it when I get like my, my time with 287 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,280 people in because I'm a, I'm a social person and I need those 288 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:20,160 interactions. I. 289 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:21,760 Love it. Yeah, there. 290 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,760 There are days that it feels that way here too, of just being 291 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,840 inside all day long and you're like, I have to go somewhere. 292 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,000 I know far too many people in my apartment building now because I 293 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,920 see them in the elevator now I'm like just start a conversation 294 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,000 about the most random thing. And yeah, my girlfriend, she 295 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,320 tolerates me when she comes home and I'm like, I think I made a 296 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,360 new best friend. And then I tell her about the 297 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,280 random person I met in the elevator. 298 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,240 So she's she's wonderful for humoring me with my over 299 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,320 exuberance of like need for social interaction. 300 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,800 That is fantastic. Look, you're making friends, 301 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,920 you're networking, you're building a community. 302 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,440 I'm trying. And on top of all of that, on 303 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,040 Saturday nights I go and play hockey and I have an amazing 304 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:08,880 bunch of people that I play with. 305 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,200 I picked it up later in life, so I'm terrible, but it's great to 306 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,560 go. Yeah, it's OK. 307 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,359 I can stop, which is like very important. 308 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,079 So I'm pretty proud of that fact. 309 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:21,680 I can't say that for everybody out there. 310 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:25,839 We do all right. And a lot of people that I play 311 00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:29,480 with also are affiliated with the government in different 312 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:30,480 ways. So like they've been really 313 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,800 supportive and really amazing. So I, I have this amazing kind 314 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,600 of support cast that I've built around me. 315 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,240 And so life is really good. Other than the fact that I don't 316 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,880 have a job, I can't. I can't complain that much, 317 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,320 luckily. I'm glad to hear you have such a 318 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,600 good support network. Not everyone is as fortunate to 319 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,160 have that network. And I, I love that you're 320 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,920 actually leaning on your network and trying to move forward and 321 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,600 not not letting everything get to you. 322 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,680 And you're, you've stayed positive every time we've talked 323 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,040 to you, you've been very positive. 324 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,760 I'd like to think I am generally a positive person. 325 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,600 I know when I when I got my very first job rejection, my 326 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,920 girlfriend came home and I was a little bit down, but I told her 327 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,880 like well at least the first one's out of the way. 328 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,960 So like now the next one isn't my first rejection like this one 329 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,440 hurt a little bit, but like we can, we can move on and it'll be 330 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,360 better going forward and it. You got experience, you got 331 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:25,640 experience, so it's all good. I don't love the the 3:00 AM 332 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:27,920 rejection e-mail where I'm like, oh, this just came from a 333 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,680 computer and nobody ever looked at it. 334 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:31,800 But that boasts this thing a little bit. 335 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,400 But overall, I'm, I'm adjusting to the reality of what job 336 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,320 seeking is these days. And I can't, yeah, I can't say 337 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,480 enough for the people I've been kind of in contact with and 338 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,400 working with to try to make this happen. 339 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,440 And it's a trying time. But I think we kind of all do 340 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,360 better when we're working together. 341 00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:53,360 And I think that's just the reality of looking for a job 342 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:56,600 these days, unfortunately. Yeah, and there are a lot of us 343 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,240 out there looking for jobs. What type of role are you 344 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,080 looking at now? Said like you really enjoyed 345 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,240 like mentoring the veterans and working with these different 346 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,480 veterans groups. Is that going to play into what 347 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,840 you're looking into or are you going to just try something 348 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,680 brand new? I think that will always be a 349 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,840 part of what I do, whether that is a formal part of the roles 350 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:24,520 that I pursue or it is something informal like through Penn State 351 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,960 or it's something local. I always want to try to help and 352 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,960 that's an area that I feel like I can really help in. 353 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,920 As far as positions I'm looking at, I'm looking at a broad range 354 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,520 of things. I think probably a lot of us are 355 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,480 trying to figure out like what do all these skills that I 356 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,880 accumulated in the military and in the government, what do they 357 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,160 mean in the real world and where do I go from here and how do I 358 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,200 leverage those skills? I've looked at government 359 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,400 affairs positions for bigger companies. 360 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,880 I'm also looking at some project management roles, and a great 361 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:03,880 resource for veterans is Syracuse's Onward to Opportunity 362 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,240 program. I am going to take advantage of 363 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:11,640 that next month and get my PMP certification to have that for 364 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,240 project management roles. That's awesome. 365 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,600 Yeah. So if, if if you are a veteran 366 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,720 and you're looking to kind of get a certification, I would 367 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,320 recommend them. There is no cost to it. 368 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,160 So that's been wonderful. Excited to get that going. 369 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,640 Also looking at some more educational opportunities. 370 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,960 I still have a little bit of my GI Bill remaining, potentially 371 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:36,560 looking at doing a master's program through Georgetown kind 372 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,360 of in artificial intelligence management. 373 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,800 So I'm excited about that. The applications are due pretty 374 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:44,720 soon. So that's another thing I've 375 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,040 been kind of working on to take up some of my time and again, 376 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,000 can't speak highly enough of the people who support me and that I 377 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,920 I asked Captain Gordle for a letter of recommendation and he 378 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,960 happily did. I reached out to one of my 379 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,680 favorite professors from Penn State who still remembers me, 380 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,520 still thinks highly of me. We still stay in contact. 381 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,040 And she's going to write me one. So awesome. 382 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,880 Yeah, I'm excited about that, really, because I think we all 383 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,520 probably would agree that artificial intelligence is not 384 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,280 only the future but is a lot of the present. 385 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,840 And I'd love to be involved in that some way. 386 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:19,960 I love that. I think that is great. 387 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,040 Before we get to our last question, I want to ask you, is 388 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,200 there anything else you want to add, anything that we part of 389 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,680 your story that we've missed or that you'd like to share? 390 00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:31,840 I'm, I'm trying to think, I feel like we've covered quite a bit 391 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,080 in this little bit of time. We have. 392 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,280 Well, I was going to say something that I know that you 393 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,840 mentioned to us and I just want to to highlight it because I 394 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,160 think this really shows some dedication. 395 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,840 You are learning a foreign language now. 396 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:50,360 I am, I am learning Ukrainian. My girlfriend is Ukrainian, her 397 00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:53,600 parents speak Ukrainian, they do not speak English. 398 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,040 They still live in western Ukraine, but they travel to 399 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,760 visit us a few times a year, and the first time I met them, my 400 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,680 girlfriend had to do all of the translation and I wanted to do 401 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,280 something to kind of help with that, so I thought I would learn 402 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,760 Ukrainian. It started by using Duolingo and 403 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,400 then it's moved on to kind of an online tutor, so I meet once a 404 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,000 week with her. It is so hard I. 405 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,640 It gives me. A lot of pleasure having 406 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,840 something in my life to learn. I mean, I think I am a lifelong 407 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:33,520 learner and whether it be learning to skate again at 37 or 408 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,920 picking up hockey the next year at 38, learning that was fun. 409 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,960 But now it's like I'm trying to learn something different, 410 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:40,640 stretch, kind of different muscles. 411 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,800 And I will say, languages are not easy for me. 412 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,320 It's been very difficult. The Cyrillic alphabet is very 413 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,200 different from ours. There's a lot of what I like to 414 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,720 call like trick letters where I think it looks like something 415 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,680 like the what looks like an H to me actually makes like an N 416 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,040 sound. And so I see it or like what 417 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,720 looks like AB, an uppercase B to me is actually AV sound. 418 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,160 And so you, your brain kind of takes a while to start piercing 419 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,040 those things together, but it's very enjoyable. 420 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,280 And her parents just visited us a few months ago. 421 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:24,200 I was able to say a few things. They laughed most of the time, 422 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,520 which I at least they, they see I'm trying. 423 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,240 And we got to a point where I could say, good morning, how are 424 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,080 you? I could tell them I was going to 425 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,480 the gym. So like, small things here or 426 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,040 there makes it fun. And then every now and then I 427 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,760 get to like come out of my lesson and talk through 428 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,800 something with my girlfriend. She's very patient with me and 429 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,960 helps me and corrects me. I was able to use a little bit 430 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,960 of it at the farmers market this last weekend because there was a 431 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,400 Ukrainian artist there. I quickly realized I was in like 432 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,800 way over my head. Good morning. 433 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,000 How are you out? And then I finally had to be 434 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,960 like, I don't speak that much, but I have a Ukrainian 435 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:05,560 girlfriend. And then they corrected me on 436 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,840 how I had not properly conjugated like Ukrainian in 437 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,600 that. But it was it was, it was good. 438 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,800 They they enjoyed it. I enjoy it. 439 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,120 And so, yeah, learning Ukrainian has been a challenge, but it's 440 00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:20,240 another kind of fun part of my life I have going on right now. 441 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,960 And I'm looking forward to kind of continuing to do that into 442 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,120 the future. So I wanted. 443 00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:26,480 To ask. You've talked. 444 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,920 A lot about like mentoring. Veterans, I was also in the 445 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,000 Marine Corps before my government service. 446 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,000 I was wondering if you have? Like any advice the. 447 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,680 Syracuse. Thing was great those. 448 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,440 Types of. Resources are excellent for 449 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,720 people if you. Have any other advice that you 450 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,720 would share? With veterans or? 451 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,080 Just with anybody who's sort of in this same situation right 452 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,760 now, yeah. For. 453 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,520 Veterans, I would definitely say take advantage of all the 454 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,680 resources that are out there beyond Syracuse. 455 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,920 I mean, Wounded Warrior Project works with veterans, but as a 456 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,640 DAV has a bunch of different people that will work with 457 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:07,080 veterans and there are a lot of programs hiring our heroes. 458 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,520 There are a lot of resources and they're all free to take 459 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,440 advantage of and to get help. I know I have a meeting with 460 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,240 Wounded Warrior Project to talk to kind of a career coach. 461 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,240 I think there are a lot of sources out there and there's 462 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,400 probably far more than I'm aware of. 463 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,240 If you are a veteran, I think there are some things you can be 464 00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:29,400 looking at to use beyond that. I really do think tapping into 465 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,320 the people you know and just getting it out there, they're 466 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,320 like, hey, I need help. Asking for help is never a bad 467 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,400 thing. Yeah, absolutely, I think. 468 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,040 One of the best pieces of. Advice that I got was try and. 469 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,160 Find people locally who. You can just go and meet up for. 470 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,080 Coffee sometime, like just to have some some outlet for 471 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,000 physical interaction, like go meet up with somebody you 472 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,120 haven't seen in years or something. 473 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:57,160 Another good one I think was and I did this a couple years. 474 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,680 Back but for people who do have GI Bill benefits left. 475 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,720 Under the Post 911 GI Bill, the sort of housing stipend that you 476 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,480 get during that time if you're having trouble with work, that's 477 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:08,600 actually really. Helpful. 478 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,040 That's that's how we paid for our apartment. 479 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,000 Between the Marine Corps and going to work at the Bureau was 480 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,440 living off of the the housing stipend that we got while I went 481 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,120 to school. I used the rest. 482 00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:23,080 Of my benefits. More recently for a graduate 483 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,480 certificate from the SANS Technology Institute. 484 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,880 Got some? Certifications and things that. 485 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,240 Way and got the the online version of the housing stipend, 486 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,080 which was also nice so that I think there are. 487 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,080 A ton of resources. Out there for people. 488 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:39,840 And yeah, like. Places like wounded. 489 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,800 Warrior Project would be great for directing people to how to. 490 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,680 Tap into those if they're having a hard time figuring it out. 491 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,360 Completely agree. I would also say that if you 492 00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:53,160 have used all of your post 911 GI bill you could also go to the 493 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,640 VA and apply for VR and E benefits. 494 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,400 I believe it's vocational rehabilitation and education 495 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,080 benefits. They will also pay a housing 496 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,280 allowance and you can use it for education and job training and 497 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,680 placement. So it's, I believe limited to 12 498 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,160 years after you get your rating, but you can, you can appeal 499 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,200 that. I, I'm actually in the process 500 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,160 of potentially having to do that myself. 501 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,920 But yeah, there's a lot of really, really good resources. 502 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,240 And I just would say in, in any facet of life, but especially in 503 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:25,840 this time, like don't suffer in silence. 504 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,440 Don't suffer alone, like reach out to the people, you know, And 505 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,160 I mean, honestly, reach out to me. 506 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,160 I'm happy to help anybody I can in any way I can. 507 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,360 I think it's all we can do is kind of help each other at this 508 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:38,720 point and try to lift each other up. 509 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,720 Yeah, absolutely. Same. 510 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,520 There's plenty of us out there all do it together. 511 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,080 Yeah, this. Out of all of this sorrow from 512 00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:52,760 all of these jobs being lost, that is one thing that we have 513 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,960 seen is that there's been a great community come together to 514 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,480 support, to support all of the former feds. 515 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:05,600 It it's been very inspiring that people like it shows that public 516 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,800 servants really do want to help other people. 517 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,400 They do want to, they want to serve the public and give back. 518 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,560 I I would agree. And I, I, I have personally felt 519 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,880 at least that like very few to almost, I would say nobody for 520 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,080 me has said no when I've asked or when I've reached out 521 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,880 randomly on LinkedIn or something just asking for, hey, 522 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,400 can I have, here's my situation. Can I have a little bit of your 523 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,920 time to talk about the industry you're in, to talk about your 524 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,280 transition from the military to the private sector or really 525 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,520 anything. So I, the worst anybody can ever 526 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,240 say is no. So exactly. 527 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,960 I'm trying to push. That as far as I can at this 528 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,160 point, yeah, we all are. So Mike, I have one last 529 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,320 question for you. If given the option, would you 530 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:54,400 go back? Maybe right now today I would 531 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,320 not. I'm, I'm looking at other 532 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,680 opportunities, if down the line there is an opportunity that I 533 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,280 feel I could do some good in the world, maybe. 534 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,840 But right now that's not my focus. 535 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,800 My focus is moving forward and finding my next thing, my next 536 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,800 place. I, I hope someday maybe I can, 537 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,480 but right now it's a, it's a, it's a maybe solid, maybe there. 538 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,160 Solid. Maybe Yes. 539 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,400 A stuttering, maybe so less than less than solid, but it's a. 540 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,160 Maybe it's a. Maybe it's a? 541 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,280 Maybe. Well, so you're saying there's a 542 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,560 chance? That's you know. 543 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,640 What those are about the odds. I never want to say no though, 544 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,080 because there's always, there's always the opportunity. 545 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,120 And hey, I, I've always said that my, my dream job is to be 546 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,640 the first base coach of the Boston Red Sox. 547 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,040 So if that doesn't work out, I could maybe see myself back in 548 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,280 the government someday. So if, if somebody from the Red 549 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,200 Sox is listening, I'm available and like, I have some 550 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,920 experience, I, I get it in Fairfax Little League, so I can 551 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,360 put that on the resume you have. So much experience there. 552 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,160 That would be fantastic. I. 553 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,280 Mean if you can, if you can. Be first base coach for Little 554 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,320 League. I feel like it's. 555 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,760 Not the hardest job in the world though I'm probably not taking 556 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,080 into account many aspects of it I feel like. 557 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:18,320 Coaching the little. Leaguers. 558 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,880 Swear to go is. Probably way more complex. 559 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,680 They need you. Yeah, I'm. 560 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,920 Assuming there's a lot. Less worry about like people 561 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,800 hitting each other with bats at the major level, I would hope. 562 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,240 Gosh. Well, OK, so Red Sox, if you're 563 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,960 listening mics available, he's just a phone Callaway or a 564 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,560 LinkedIn message, you know, 11 can hope. 565 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,120 Dreams. Dreams can come true. 566 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,560 Sometimes I think they can. Well, Mike? 567 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,520 I know you are going to do great things, and I'm so glad that 568 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,400 Philip and I have gotten to meet you. 569 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,880 So thank you so much for joining us today. 570 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,360 Thank you both. And yeah, thank you for. 571 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,320 Kind of giving all of us a platform to tell our stories. 572 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,680 It's certainly helpful and cathartic. 573 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,040 Absolutely, absolutely well. We're happy to do so. 574 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,880 So, all right, Well, thanks for taking off with us. 575 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:10,880 Have a good day. Thank you. 576 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,680 Thanks for tuning into this. Episode of forking off to our 577 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,920 listeners still in government. Remember, your integrity is 578 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,480 worth more than your TSP, Leaving doesn't. 579 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,320 Mean giving up on. Public service. 580 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,160 It just means. Finding new ways. 581 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,480 To serve until next. Time keep. 582 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,720 Your ethics keep your. Dignity and we'll. 583 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,680 Keep telling these stories. If you're a former Fed. 584 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,560 With. A story to tell, or you're 585 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,800 wrestling with your own ethical crossroads. 586 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,400 Reach out to us at info@forkingoff.com. 587 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,480 Today's. Episode was created, produced 588 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,400 and edited. By Jill and Phillip Fields. 589 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,160 Special thanks to our. Guest Mike Johnson. 590 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,080 You can find more information about this episode at Forking 591 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:52,280 Off. Dot com follow. 592 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,880 Us on Instagram, TikTok, Blue Sky, Mastodon, LinkedIn or 593 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:06,160 wherever you get your podcasts. Join us Monday. 594 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,000 November 17th as we talk with Doctor. 595 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,200 Sarah Digu, former senior scientist at CD CS Division of 596 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,960 Violence Prevention. So what I. 597 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,920 Wanted to do with my business was try to rebuild and reinvent 598 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,800 what we are doing in violence prevention so that it doesn't 599 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,520 rely completely on the government because violence does 600 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,080 not end when the government ignores it. 601 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:35,120 In fact, it is currently getting worse for the people that we try 602 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:39,760 to protect, that we worked for. Like it's on us now to take that 603 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,240 and to try to do something else with it because that was a gift 604 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,160 while it lasted. And they are counting on us, 605 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,240 whether they know it or not. That's the best we can do in 606 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:50,120 2025.