1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,080 What the fork? OK, OK, let's try this again. 2 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,280 Welcome to Forking Off the Podcast For People Who Said No 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,840 to Just Following Orders, where we explore the very personal 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:22,000 decisions behind leaving federal service, whether by choice or by 5 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,680 force. Every departure has a story and 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,320 we are here to share them. Hi and welcome to this episode 7 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,320 of Forking Off I'm Jill Fields. And I'm Phillip Fields. 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,400 And today we have with us Doctor Sarah Degu. 9 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:37,600 Hi, Sarah. How are you? 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,280 Did I say your name right? Yes, thank you, Jill and 11 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,880 Phillip. It's great to see you and talk 12 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,480 to you this morning. Thanks for joining us. 13 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:50,920 We're so excited to have you. So let's get started with your 14 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:55,640 bluff, your bottom line upfront, who you are, and where you are. 15 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,320 I was a senior scientist in CD CS Division of Violence 16 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,959 Prevention for the last 17 years and I was riffed on April 1st. 17 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,680 I'm a forensic psychologist by training and now I run a 18 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,800 Consulting Group called Violence Prevention Solutions where we're 19 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,160 trying to move the work that we did within the government out 20 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,800 into the private sector and help communities implement evidence 21 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:21,800 based violence prevention strategies. 22 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,720 That is really amazing and I, I want to hear more about that in 23 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,320 a little bit because that just to turn things around and be 24 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:33,360 able to continue helping the community. 25 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,640 Thank you, thank you. So let's talk about your past. 26 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,880 Like what? How you ended up with CDC? 27 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:46,280 How you came to public service? Yeah, so I have a PhD in 28 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,880 clinical psychology, and as I was expecting when I left grad 29 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:54,560 school to go into research and maybe private practice, but when 30 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:59,480 I saw a job appear at CDC in the Division of Violence Prevention, 31 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,080 I was like, this sounds really cool. 32 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,160 I didn't know that the Division of violence Prevention existed 33 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,320 then, even though I had been working in violence research 34 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,960 for, you know, 5-6 years at that point. 35 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,040 And it just sounded like such a different twist on what I was 36 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:16,880 doing. I was working primarily with 37 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,760 perpetrators in the criminal justice system, although also 38 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,600 seeing some clients in the community, most of whom had a 39 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,560 violence victimization history. And it sounded really appealing 40 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,400 to me to be able to work on the other side of that, to try to 41 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,200 stop violence before it starts instead of dealing with the 42 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,560 aftermath. Of course, both of those things 43 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:39,640 are important. We need to have services for 44 00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:42,560 survivors. We need to have a system that 45 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:48,120 can rehabilitate people who've harmed other people and try to 46 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,880 keep people safe. But I really think that focusing 47 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,880 on the front end of that was appealing to me because it 48 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,680 really stops that pipeline and protects people to begin with. 49 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:04,760 And so I started working at CDC in 2008 and left academia at 50 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,040 that time. The entire time I worked at CDC, 51 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,920 I was in the Division of Violence Prevention's Research 52 00:03:10,920 --> 00:03:16,120 and Evaluation Branch, where I conducted research on effective 53 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,640 strategies to prevent violence. Most of that was sexual violence 54 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,680 and later teen dating violence. Those were kind of my focus 55 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,120 areas where I had done the most work prior to coming to CDC. 56 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,720 But over those years I developed expertise more generally in 57 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:37,120 applying the public health model to prevent violence across the 58 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,400 board. So we work on on sexual 59 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,440 violence, intimate partner in teen dating violence, child 60 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,640 abuse and neglect, suicide, youth violence, community and 61 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,000 firearm violence, elder abuse and maltreatment, sort of all 62 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,520 forms of violence with one exception and that was more of 63 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,440 the targeted violence. So in the last few years, we 64 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,520 also started working with the Department of Homeland Security 65 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,040 to develop a public health approach to prevent targeted 66 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,840 violence and terrorism domestic as well. 67 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,320 And that was really exciting work for me, and I was really 68 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,560 happy to help them sort of start developing the evidence base and 69 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,880 thinking through how we can prevent mass violence, 70 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,320 ideological violence, and hate crimes as well. 71 00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:22,840 That work is no longer continuing either. 72 00:04:22,840 --> 00:04:26,760 But I'm happy to have had all of the experiences that I did over 73 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:31,080 the last 17 years because it really gave me a sense of the 74 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:35,120 scope and nature of the problem of violence and also what we can 75 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,560 do about it. So we know a lot about what can 76 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,400 prevent violence. And the challenge now is that 77 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,840 most of the people who had that knowledge are gone from the 78 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:47,200 government. Not entirely. 79 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,960 We're still here, but we don't have that expertise in the 80 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,640 government anymore, almost entirely. 81 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,520 And that is a big problem. That's a huge problem. 82 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,320 Big just feels like not a big enough word for that. 83 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:07,680 It is unreal that this is where we are being in the FBI, being 84 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,120 intelligence analyst in the intelligence community. 85 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,000 We also work on that prevention side. 86 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,840 You don't want to be on the back end of it where people have been 87 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,080 injured, people have been hurt, people have been killed. 88 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,640 You want to be on that front end so that you can prevent all of 89 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:26,120 it and and violence prevention to not have experts in that 90 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,400 field continue continuing to study, continuing to prevent. 91 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:31,680 Sarah, that's really, really scary. 92 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:36,520 You mentioned your work with DHS on countering targeted violence, 93 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,360 and sure, we can't go too far into that. 94 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,480 But I really worry about those kinds of programs because I know 95 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,640 that they were already sort of not the main focus of the 96 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,080 organization. And if they're losing support, 97 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,440 then that's not good for the long term. 98 00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:54,120 Absolutely no. It is. 99 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,040 It is really scary to think about the lack of investment, 100 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:01,240 investment in prevention, and what that means five years from 101 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,400 now, even for six months from now. 102 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,160 But prevention is a long game, is what I always say. 103 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:10,280 You get up in the community as early as possible, and you try 104 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:14,440 to prevent the development of risk and encourage protective 105 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,960 factors throughout the lifespan of someone so that by the time 106 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,400 they get to adolescence and adulthood, they have lower risk 107 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,200 and they're much less likely to engage in violence to begin 108 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,080 with. We are cutting off that pipeline 109 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:32,560 of support of services, of programs that people need in 110 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,920 this generation now at a time when there's already a mental 111 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,360 health epidemic, there's a suicide epidemic, there has been 112 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,960 a rise in violent extremism, and we're turning that off. 113 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,160 And we're saying, you know what, you're all on your own. 114 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,480 How about just, you know, the nonprofit sector, which already 115 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,880 has really small budgets to work with, deals with that problem 116 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,760 mostly on the back end, mostly in response to violence and 117 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,640 supporting survivors after the fact anyways. 118 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,600 And we're not going to do prevention anymore. 119 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,920 That is really dangerous in the long run, even if this goes on 120 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,640 for a few years. Even at this point, it's been 121 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:13,640 what, like 6 months, 8 months, and 40 years of work has been 122 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,600 destroyed just in the Division of Violence Prevention. 123 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,320 And I can't imagine what that looks like across the entire 124 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,440 government and even just across the pieces of the government 125 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,320 that address violence. It is a devastating hit that I 126 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,640 think could, if we started now, take 10 years to undo at best. 127 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,960 We've lost our experts, we've lost our momentum, we've lost 128 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,600 our programs. Interestingly, some of the 129 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,800 funding still exists, but there is no one to administer that 130 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,040 funding. There's no one to make sure that 131 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:50,120 that funding is used effectively and in line with science. 132 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,800 So that is, that is a bit of a problem, right? 133 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,000 Taxpayers expect their money to be used wisely. 134 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,080 And as you know from working in the government for many years, 135 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,800 we all did the best that we could with that. 136 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,880 It's obviously not always easy in the government because there 137 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,200 are so many bureaucratic hurdles to getting things done 138 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,880 efficiently at all times. But I've never met a person in 139 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:16,320 17 years that wasn't trying. And that is all kind of down the 140 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,560 tubes now. And that's as just a citizen 141 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,480 now, you know, we're all on the outside. 142 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,680 We're all fully, fully terminated. 143 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,240 That is scary. That is scary to think about. 144 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:31,160 So what I wanted to do with my business was try to rebuild and 145 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,440 reinvent what we are doing in violence prevention so that it 146 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,280 doesn't rely completely on the government or on nonprofits with 147 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,120 small budgets who needed that that support from the government 148 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,760 to make sure that we can still keep this work alive as as long 149 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,600 as possible and hopefully maybe even make it more effective than 150 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,600 it was. That's really inspiring. 151 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,520 The nonprofits that I've sort of been used to following over the 152 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,800 last 10 years, a lot of them, their budgets are extremely 153 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,560 constricted now and they don't sort of have the ability that 154 00:09:01,560 --> 00:09:04,920 they did 10 years ago to do a lot of the work that they were 155 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,760 doing. So it is great to see new people 156 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,400 coming in with new ideas and trying to tackle it with the 157 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,440 experience and background that you have. 158 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:15,520 Yeah, I hope that it can be effective. 159 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:20,080 It's been a challenge to become, uh, what I keep saying is a 160 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,760 business lady, umm, after being a scientist for 25 years and a 161 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,760 researcher and just kind of a subject matter expert to learn 162 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,240 something new. But it's also really exciting 163 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,000 and fun and I, I'm really enjoying it and one piece that 164 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,080 keeps me going. In addition to, you know, 165 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,800 knowing how serious this problem is and that we don't want to 166 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,080 lose all this expertise that we built and which, frankly, 167 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,000 taxpayers paid us to build for many years. 168 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,960 We don't want to lose that. We don't want everyone to go 169 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,320 into other fields and drop out of this, which is what a lot of 170 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,000 people are doing because they're just, there aren't enough jobs 171 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,000 in violence prevention. I wanted to try to create a 172 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:04,120 space where my team, my colleagues from CDC can start to 173 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:08,400 rebuild, can have jobs, can continue to work together and 174 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,000 protect that expertise and and that those resources that we 175 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,320 had. Even now some more people from 176 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,520 the Division of Violence prevention were riffed again 177 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,280 last week, and there are even fewer people left, even fewer 178 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,040 capacity. I had one person left on my 179 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,880 former team, which was the team that led the Dating Matters Teen 180 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,080 Dating Violence Comprehensive prevention model initiative. 181 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:37,240 And she was trying to get a big project that we had almost 182 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,160 finished over the finish line this year, which would have 183 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,400 launched a new version of the model that communities could use 184 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,400 to implement effective teen dating violence prevention in 185 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:52,320 communities at low cost with all the materials being free from 186 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,560 CDC. She was trying to get that out 187 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:57,600 because we had all been lost and we'd already worked on this for 188 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,120 years. And now she was riffed as well. 189 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,840 And so there is literally no one there. 190 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,440 We had to put an out of office message on our team inbox, a 191 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,120 permanent one, saying this is not functional anymore, that no 192 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,640 one is here to respond to these requests. 193 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:18,480 What I'm hoping is that people will find us in our new work at 194 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,040 violence Prevention solutions where we're trying to help 195 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,400 people and not charging for a lot of this work. 196 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,400 All we have so many partners in the field who are already 197 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,800 implementing our programs. We we just want to help them 198 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,240 keep going and try to figure out how to get through this without 199 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,160 discontinuing that work or pivoting to something else. 200 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,440 And so where we want people to reach out to us and say, hey, I 201 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,000 can't find this stuff on the website anymore or God forbid 202 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,480 the website has been deleted. Trying to figure out how to 203 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,600 prevent that from happening or where are these materials that 204 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,920 were deleted in April because they were quote UN quote DEI. 205 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,160 That's what we're trying to do on that side now. 206 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:03,120 But we have no one left on the inside who can carry that work 207 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:04,560 forward. And so we don't really know 208 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:07,440 what's going to happen to it, but I have a feeling it's 209 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,920 wasted, which is really hard because we put a lot of love and 210 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:12,840 work into that for years. Yeah. 211 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,560 And that's terrifying because especially with the teen dating 212 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:21,240 and violence, you're starting at a younger age to implement 213 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,800 prevention there that would last for a lifetime. 214 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,480 And that's just as a mother of a, of a child who's about to be 215 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,880 a teenager, like that's concerning. 216 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:32,360 Yep. I, I it's. 217 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,080 Not a good time to be losing that or any of our other work. 218 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,080 Work on firearm violence that we were not able to address for 219 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,280 decades and finally just got some funding and ability to 220 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,480 address. Work on sexual violence, which 221 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,760 is a long term problem, but one that has never let up and that 222 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,560 needs to continually be addressed in better ways. 223 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,760 We have child abuse and neglect and intimate partner violence 224 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,480 that we saw spikes in during COVID and we know that there are 225 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,440 continually problems to protect kids and we did see some 226 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,800 improvements in that as well when there was increases in 227 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,760 funding to support families after COVID or during COVID and 228 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,720 that funding was taken away. People are losing their health 229 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,800 insurance and we know all of these things are related to 230 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,560 increases in family violence, in community violence, and in 231 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:24,360 self-directed violence in the form of suicide, which is at an 232 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,480 incredibly high level, especially for young people. 233 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:31,640 And that some of the highest effects are for LGBTQ plus youth 234 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,600 who have been experiencing all of these forms of violence at 235 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,720 increased levels even before this period, where now they're 236 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:44,600 also being attacked by their own government and villainized. 237 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:49,920 And that is, I can only imagine, making the situation much worse. 238 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,120 But we've lost the ability to track that. 239 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:56,200 As far as I know, we're not collecting data on that anymore 240 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,720 or their ability to release that data will be severely 241 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,840 restricted. So that is a big problem. 242 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,360 Even earlier this year, we were no longer allowed to use the 243 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,000 word gender. We're no longer allowed to talk 244 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:14,200 about trans people existing. And those things do not make any 245 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,400 sense to anyone, right? We were often replacing the word 246 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,840 gender with sex, but those are not the same thing at all. 247 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,440 So it's it's just incorrect. It's just incorrect. 248 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,480 And I think everyone who has any touch left with reality knows 249 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,880 that that's incorrect. But here we are doing it anyways 250 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:38,240 and it's just making problems worse that already needed more 251 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,280 attention and more funding and more effort to address them. 252 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,280 And that is again, scary. That yes. 253 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,120 Yes. Recently, I saw a statement from 254 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,640 the Texas Attorney General where he actually referred to 255 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,960 corrupted ideologies like transgenderism and Antifa 256 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,160 causing terrorism in the United States. 257 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:05,360 And the state of Texas was going to be going after these groups 258 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,040 in undercover capacities. I've actually, I've got it up. 259 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,680 It's on their official government website right now, 260 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,200 the statement. And so that's the kind of thing 261 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,240 that I worry about. It's not just that we're not 262 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,440 tracking it anymore. It's that by not tracking it, 263 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:24,680 we're also missing the opportunity to see the origins 264 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,920 of it, which in a lot of cases is statements from public 265 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,040 officials like this I don't understand. 266 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,160 That I have not seen that. That is terrifying. 267 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:40,600 That is, I mean, when the people that are in power are making 268 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:46,160 statements that I'm going to say, I don't want to say incite, 269 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:47,960 but you're going to say, but it does. 270 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,240 But when they're making statements that are incendiary, 271 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:56,640 that basically call to action to people to even just turn their 272 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:01,240 backs on someone, if not being violent like physical violence, 273 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,880 but to turn their back on entire groups of people, it just. 274 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,880 Yeah, OK, here. I wasn't going to read the whole 275 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,760 quote, but you tell me if this is incitement or not. 276 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,280 Leftist political terrorism is a clear and present danger. 277 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,960 Corrupted ideologies like transgenderism and Antifa are 278 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,080 cancer on our culture and have unleashed their deranged and 279 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,880 drugged up foot soldiers on the American people. 280 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,280 That's a Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton. 281 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:31,800 Yes, yes, and you don't have to look very far to find out that 282 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,480 that's not true. You can look at the last 5-10 283 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,760 reports out of Homeland Security, FBI, all of the 284 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,160 reports that have ever come out about domestic terrorism. 285 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,440 Not a single one will say the primary problem is leftist 286 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,960 ideology. There's none of that in there 287 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,200 because it's not true. There are of course some left 288 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:57,840 wing people who have engaged in domestic terrorism, like animal 289 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,160 rights groups or environmental groups. 290 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,520 Those are actually the big ones on on the left side that 291 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,640 actually turn to violence are usually animal rights, extreme 292 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:11,160 and environmental groups, right. And there are quite a few 293 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,960 studies that try and do a comparison of domestic 294 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,119 ideologies. Everyone that I've found for the 295 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:23,040 last several years has said left groups are less likely to resort 296 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,720 to violence than far right groups. 297 00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:29,120 And yeah, it usually is. It's the animal rights and the 298 00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:34,040 environmental which their violence is usually targeted at 299 00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:38,320 establishments and they tend to try and do it when people aren't 300 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,360 there because they don't want to hurt living things. 301 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,360 Yes, right. That's kind of the whole idea, 302 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:45,800 right? Yeah. 303 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,840 It's, it's not mass violence against people. 304 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,800 It's more property. That is a very different thing. 305 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,680 It's also, I think, a very small proportion of all of the 306 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,280 incidents in the last 20 years. So to say that that's the 307 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,080 primary problem is factually untrue. 308 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,000 And every administration, including Republican 309 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,120 administrations and directors, have said the exact same thing. 310 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,880 Just as a legal disclaimer, it is not OK to set a lab on fire 311 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,520 because you don't like it. But that's. 312 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,360 Right, that's right. That is also bad and domestic 313 00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:19,560 terrorism. They should also be prosecuted. 314 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,520 It is not the same as a mass shooting. 315 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:27,640 But Speaking of shootings, there was a shooting at CDC 316 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,440 headquarters. Just think it was like just two 317 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:35,120 months ago and the administration did not really 318 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,200 react to it. What are your thoughts on that? 319 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,360 Yeah. So yes, just in case folks 320 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:44,360 haven't heard about it, because there actually was not that much 321 00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:48,800 coverage considering it was essentially a domestic terrorism 322 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:54,960 attack on federal properties. There was a person who shot more 323 00:18:54,960 --> 00:19:00,560 than 500 bullets at the CDC campus in August right over the 324 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:05,000 roof of the daycare center in the front and killed a DeKalb 325 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,400 County police officer in the process. 326 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,280 Miraculously did not hit anyone else because the bill. 327 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,360 The bullets went right through the windows, over people's 328 00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:18,600 cubicles, smashed all the windows in these huge buildings 329 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,480 and it will probably take months to repair that. 330 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:26,400 The reporting suggested the person who also died at the 331 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:32,280 scene was an anti vax person who believed that CDC was 332 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:37,200 responsible for COVID or trying to hurt people with vaccines. 333 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,920 Some such nonsense. Not only did the administration 334 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:45,360 not really respond to that, they did not say one word out of the 335 00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:49,920 White House about that attack. They let people go home from 336 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,480 work for, I don't know, like a week and telework again, as 337 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,960 everyone had for years, very successfully anyway. 338 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,800 So this wasn't exactly a stretch. 339 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,800 And then they immediately sent everyone back to work and said 340 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,680 you just work in those offices where there's bullet holes next 341 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,720 to your cubicle. We will not be having any mental 342 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,120 health services. For anyone except what's been 343 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,840 thrown together by some employees themselves who are 344 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,160 tasked with providing their own mental health services. 345 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,960 Essentially the only response that really happened was from 346 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:27,840 RFK Junior, who showed up in Atlanta the next week and said, 347 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,000 oh, this is terrible. And then the second sentence, so 348 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,760 I don't know exactly what he said in the first sentence. 349 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,200 It was something like, yeah, this is bad. 350 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,040 The second sentence was, well, basically CDC had it coming. 351 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:43,080 They they shouldn't have been so terrible and then this wouldn't 352 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,800 have happened. So he came all the way here to 353 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:51,840 blame the victims of this attack and then left town immediately 354 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,640 after. So there's no response, no help. 355 00:20:54,800 --> 00:21:00,840 People have been traumatized since January in these jobs, and 356 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,560 they continually are traumatized. 357 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,720 And now on top of that, there is also a mass shooting against 358 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,960 them where they now don't even know if they're physically safe 359 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,640 in their workplace. So that is, yeah, that is really 360 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,560 hard. And sometimes we talk about this 361 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,320 in terms of, like, the people who are still there are in an 362 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,680 abusive relationship that they can't escape from because they 363 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,200 have, you know, the financial constraints. 364 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,640 They can't quit their job. They can't afford to quit their 365 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,960 job. Many people love their work, and 366 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,640 they don't want to abandon it. They don't want to abandon their 367 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,960 colleagues. They don't want to drop all of 368 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,480 this stuff on someone else's lap, especially when there's no 369 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,880 one left to pick it up. But the people who have been 370 00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:48,200 riffed or who took the fork or are on the outside now we're, 371 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,160 we're not doing great either, right? 372 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,320 We feel like we're, we left the abusive relationship and now 373 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,120 we're in a shelter and now we're just trying to survive and 374 00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:00,120 restart our lives without anything. 375 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,800 That is kind of where they've left the federal service. 376 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,000 That is intentional. That's exactly what Russ bought 377 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,320 said he wanted to do. He said he wanted to put all 378 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,240 federal employees into trauma and he sure has. 379 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,080 He sure has. So if they actually want to get 380 00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:18,200 anything out of this government again, and I'm not sure that 381 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,520 they do, I don't know what that piece is besides immigration 382 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,840 related activities. They're not going to be able to 383 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,240 get it because they do not have a fully functional workforce. 384 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:32,080 They don't have enough people. They even fired HR at CDC last 385 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,120 week. Who's going to do all the rifts? 386 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,880 I need to get my health insurance fixed because my kids 387 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,440 don't have health insurance now because they screwed up the 388 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,120 paperwork. Who am I supposed to call if 389 00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:44,320 they're there's no HR, right? This makes no sense. 390 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,040 This makes no sense. So I I think the government is 391 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,560 broken and we're all going to suffer already. 392 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,280 Yeah, we have talked a lot. Your comparison to the abusive 393 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:02,000 relationship and the being in the shelter when I was because I 394 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,360 decided to leave, I, I took the deferred resignation. 395 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,480 It was a choice. But the day that I decided, like 396 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,720 the day that I got noticed that I could take it, I was talking 397 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,560 with Phillip and I was so torn. Like, do I take it? 398 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,360 Do I not take it? Like I've got a choice? 399 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:19,800 And Phillip was like, can you come up with any reason that 400 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,680 doesn't sound like a battered spouse, an abused spouse? 401 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,560 And I felt like the worst person in the world describing it that 402 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,400 way. So you have no idea how I I 403 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:29,760 don't. I don't want to say good. 404 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,600 It makes me feel to hear you describe that way, but. 405 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,520 Validate it and maybe I. Shouldn't either because it's 406 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,400 obviously not at a level of a real. 407 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,760 Really. No, no. 408 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:43,480 But there is also psychological abuse, and it absolutely is 409 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,360 psychological abuse. Yeah, and I know like Phillip 410 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:50,480 saying it to me, like really snapped me to. 411 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,280 Oh, wow, Like I had to go into therapy. 412 00:23:54,280 --> 00:24:00,280 My health deteriorated terribly and my biggest concern about 413 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,400 staying was my squad, my people. I need to be there for them. 414 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,200 I need to be there for them. It basically like caring for 415 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:08,960 your children, and they are not children. 416 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,000 They are grown adults who are very capable people. 417 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,880 But that is, you're right, that's how it feels. 418 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,640 It feels like you're being abused and you don't know how to 419 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:23,320 get out or you just get pushed out and abandoned. 420 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:28,120 I don't know where I'm going with that other than yes, that 421 00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:31,800 is, that's, that's exactly how how it felt. 422 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaking of that's how we felt. You have used those feelings of 423 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,960 abandonment and that fear that other people are not going to 424 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,320 have these services that are not going to have these solutions 425 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,520 available to them. And you have pivoted, and this 426 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,920 is a great example of what civil servants do. 427 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,240 They want to help people. And you have turned this into 428 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,440 your new endeavor with violence prevention solutions. 429 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:03,880 Tell us a little more about what you're doing with this, how you 430 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,800 are helping communities. Tell us more. 431 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,880 Yeah. So like you, I was also really 432 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,360 concerned about my team and what they were going to do as well. 433 00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:18,400 And I know everyone does not have the same capacity for 434 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,880 rebuilding as quickly or the same context or the same 435 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:27,280 financial ability to not have a job immediately and to try to 436 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,400 figure out something new. And so I felt like protective of 437 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,920 my people and I wanted to build something where all of us could 438 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:41,120 survive and thrive and continue helping our communities to do 439 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:44,520 the work that we know is effective and to provide the 440 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,960 technical assistance in the training and the guidance that 441 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,800 we had before. And so that's the purpose of 442 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,840 violence prevention solution, to maintain the expertise we had in 443 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,960 the government and provide that to communities that need it. 444 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,000 The kind of work we do is right now a little varied because 445 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,720 we're getting started. But what I want to do primarily 446 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:10,160 in the long run is consult with nonprofits, higher Ed 447 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,200 institutions, community based organizations, and state and 448 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,680 local governments to review the work that they're doing on 449 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,720 violence prevention. Provide them a really clear 450 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,880 evidence, evidence based look at what they're doing and what is 451 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,000 the likelihood that it's being effective. 452 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,560 And then kind of comparing that to the evidence base and what we 453 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,000 know about what works. And sometimes what people are 454 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,720 doing is the best that they can with the resources and the 455 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,440 knowledge that they have, but not necessarily the best that's 456 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,400 possible for them to do if they had the resources and they had 457 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:47,160 the expertise that they needed to level up those strategies to 458 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,800 better align with what works. And so we then help them to 459 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,680 develop those strategies based on where they are, to create a 460 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,360 comprehensive plan for a violence prevention strategy 461 00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:00,880 that will really make a difference and help them figure 462 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,080 out how will they track that? How will they know if it's 463 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,760 working? What does that program 464 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,400 evaluation look like? What kind of capacity building 465 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,240 do they need to do? And then in that final phase of 466 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,640 this, we actually help them to build that capacity. 467 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,920 So we will be developing a training Academy. 468 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,080 We'll have a technical assistance group that people can 469 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,000 join to ask questions and get support when they run into 470 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,080 barriers and implementing their plan. 471 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,720 We can help them develop the capacity to do program 472 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,600 evaluation and to be able to really effectively communicate 473 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,840 that to funders so that they can increase the resources that they 474 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,240 have when they're putting in grant applications or they're 475 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,120 talking to their board or their community partners to build 476 00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:47,680 their capacity to do even more work in the future and build up 477 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,120 their strategy. That's the kind of stuff that we 478 00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:52,440 did before. But honestly, I think that this 479 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,480 way of doing it is going to be more effective because we have 480 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,680 more capacity to do that than we did before. 481 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,320 Before we had, you know, everyone was very stretched with 482 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,840 so many different duties. We were doing a lot of direct 483 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,840 research ourselves, which we're not really able to do outside 484 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,760 the government or outside of academia. 485 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,160 So that piece we're going to work with other partners to make 486 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,600 sure we know what the latest evidence is and maybe we partner 487 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,440 with universities to as like Co principal investigators on 488 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,440 awards as well and maybe maintain some academic 489 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,160 connection. So we can do that work as well. 490 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,840 But primarily what we want to do is help communities through that 491 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,800 process from looking at where they are today and getting them 492 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,400 to a place where all that effort and time and resources that 493 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,840 they're putting into their work, which is a lot and really hard 494 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,640 work, that we can make it easier for them and that we can make it 495 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,760 more effective. I'm excited to do that. 496 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,480 We have some folks that are doing it now, but we're just 497 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,840 getting started as well. So we're kind of building and 498 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,640 piloting this ship as we fly it and figuring out what's going to 499 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,760 work and what people need the most and how we can help them 500 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,960 with that. I love that really being there 501 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,320 for the communities and helping the communities to continue, 502 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,480 even the resource of the people that you are that you are 503 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,840 bringing together to work with the communities. 504 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,360 That's one of the big things that government made available 505 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:23,280 to everyone was that access to expertise and I really love that 506 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,080 you're putting that together. Again, you're bringing those 507 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,960 experts together to work with communities to build that. 508 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,880 And with just the way things have have been going this year, 509 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,960 there has been a notable increase in violence that we've 510 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,840 been seeing that has been shown to the public in the news. 511 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:49,080 We're seeing a lot of violence just in how certain things are 512 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,880 being approached right now. So state sponsored violence 513 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,800 essentially that has an effect not only on the people who are 514 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,160 experiencing it, but also entire communities. 515 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,600 I was in Chicago last week for a meeting where some folks are 516 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:10,960 trying to create new resources based on the National Plan to 517 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,080 End Gender Based Violence for communities. 518 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,200 To take that plan and move it into communities, to make it 519 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,360 kind of a a resource that we can all use and a plan that we can 520 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,160 all keep moving forward on, even outside of the government. 521 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,520 Because that was the first national plan to end gender 522 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,560 based violence in the US, which every other country already had 523 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,640 a decade ago at least. But while I was there, I didn't 524 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,640 really see a lot of activity with the National Guard or ICE. 525 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,480 I don't know where they were exactly, but everyone was 526 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,120 thinking about it. Everyone was worried about it. 527 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:46,520 And that is the effect of this, to scare people, to make us 528 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:51,120 afraid to go outside, to make us anticipate running into this 529 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:56,840 kind of violence and fear wherever we go and get used to 530 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,520 it. And we I don't want us to get 531 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,880 used to it because I think that is really dangerous in the long 532 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,080 run. Yeah, going back to something 533 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,920 that Jordan Matthews, who we interviewed a while back, said 534 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,480 authoritarianism thrives on our silence and thrives on our fear. 535 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,000 We were at a dinner and somebody was saying to us they were 536 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,760 afraid to like certain posts online because you know what? 537 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,000 If I've liked the wrong thing and now somebody's going to come 538 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,400 after me and they're there are frayed, so you've got this fear 539 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,280 in our community and fear can lead to violence. 540 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,080 There there's a legal term for that. 541 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,280 It's called a chilling effect. Yes. 542 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,760 Yeah, nobody should ever fear their government. 543 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,760 Moving this kind of work into the private sector right now is 544 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,920 extremely important, because if you can't, if you're afraid of 545 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,960 your government and you don't feel like you can trust your 546 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,640 government, how can you go to your government for the kind of 547 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,800 help that you need if you're in one of these vulnerable 548 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,240 communities? So what you're describing is 549 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,680 absolutely necessary. Yeah, I'm really excited to see 550 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,040 it. Yeah, thank you. 551 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,160 We're, we're excited to be thinking through this, to try to 552 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,240 figure this out. It's kind of fun and interesting 553 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,440 to do. If you ignore the context in 554 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,160 which we're doing it right, no one chose this. 555 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,720 In the long run, I think it's kind of exciting and maybe we 556 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,960 can build an infrastructure that is as strong as what we thought 557 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,800 the government was, right? We never thought we would leave 558 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,680 the government. We never wanted to leave the 559 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,920 government. We never thought it was possible 560 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,200 that we would be forced to leave the government. 561 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,360 But it turns out that is possible. 562 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,240 So we need to create resources that are more stable than that, 563 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,040 because violence does not end when the government ignores it. 564 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,440 In fact, it is currently getting worse. 565 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:51,320 So we need to do what we can. And I think that as people who 566 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:56,120 were for many years supported by the government and invested in 567 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,720 by the government, that for the people that we tried to protect, 568 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,480 that we worked for. Like it's on us now to take that 569 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,400 and to try to do something else with it. 570 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,960 Because that was a gift while it lasted. 571 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,000 And they're counting on us, whether they know it or not. 572 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,600 I can't say thank you enough on that. 573 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,680 Just because the work you're doing is so necessary, is so 574 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:23,200 needed. To lose that expertise would be 575 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,600 devastating to our country. So thank you for doing this. 576 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,560 We will make sure in our show notes that we have, we'll have 577 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,960 your website in the show notes. It's prevent-violence.com for 578 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,000 anyone who wants to look this up. 579 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,480 You have a blog, you have a newsletter, you've got resources 580 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,960 there. Is there anything else that you 581 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,600 would like to add? What's next for you? 582 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,080 What's next is that we are just trying to evolve, and that's 583 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,960 actually the new brand of my business that will launch soon, 584 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,120 Evolve violence prevention. With the idea that we're 585 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:04,520 evolving, we're finding a way to create a new path for ourselves 586 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,239 to do the work that we want to do, but we also want to evolve 587 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,560 the field. We also want to make sure that 588 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,320 people have access to the resources to do better work with 589 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,480 what they have and the passion and the hard work and the 590 00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:23,000 experts on the ground who see this and do this every day. 591 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,239 We want to help them to increase the impact that they have and to 592 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,960 evolve their work to align with the evidence base and be able to 593 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,040 also tell people how impactful their work is, how important 594 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,120 their work is in an even stronger way. 595 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,440 So I am looking forward to that. We're trying to stay hopeful and 596 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,320 helpful out here. And that's the best we can do in 597 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,760 2025, right? And everyone does not have the 598 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,239 ability to do that right now, and that's OK too. 599 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,639 But those of us who can we, I think we have a responsibility 600 00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:58,920 to do that. Well, Sarah, thank you so much 601 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,400 for joining us today. This has been both terrifying 602 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,040 and uplifting all at the same time. 603 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,720 So thank you so much for joining us today and for forking off 604 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:13,920 with us. Thank you for having me and for 605 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,880 doing this podcast, which I think is so amazing and was so 606 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,840 great to just connect all of us. We are we have such a great 607 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,120 group now of group. It sounds it's much bigger than 608 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:29,600 a group, but of the former Fed kids who are using our power to 609 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,160 do good. And I love I love this idea for 610 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,640 the podcast and I can't wait to hear more episodes. 611 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,400 Thanks for having me. Thank you. 612 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,000 Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to this 613 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,640 episode of Forking Off. To our listeners still in 614 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,840 government, remember your integrity is worth more than 615 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,440 your TSP. Leaving doesn't mean giving up 616 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,960 on public service, it just means finding new ways to serve. 617 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,480 Until next time. Keep your ethics. 618 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,680 Keep your dignity. And we'll keep telling these 619 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,240 stories. If you're a former Fed with a 620 00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:02,280 story to tell, or you're wrestling with your own ethical 621 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,560 crossroads, reach out to us at info@forkingoff.com. 622 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,840 Today's episode was created, produced, and edited by Jill and 623 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,240 Phillip Fields. Special thanks to our guest, 624 00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:15,800 Doctor Sarah Digu. You can find more information 625 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,040 about this episode at forkingoff.com. 626 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,040 Follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Blue Sky, Mastodon, LinkedIn, or 627 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:33,400 wherever you get your podcasts. Join us Monday, November 24th. 628 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,760 As we talk with Molly Kaczowski, former Rocky Mountain regional 629 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,840 director of the US Patent and Trademark Office. 630 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,120 The US Patent and Trademark Office is a relatively unique 631 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,000 beast in the federal government. We were the only fully user fee 632 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,040 funded government agency. We did not take a dime of 633 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,040 taxpayer money. Intellectual property supports 634 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,080 about 8 trillion of the Gross domestic product of the United 635 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,320 States. So numbers matter and truth 636 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,240 matters. So let's talk truth. 637 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,880 First of all, where I've been able to summarize anything with 638 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,400 respect to what has happened over the last nine months is the 639 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,680 the stated goals do not match the reality of the consequences 640 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:19,840 of their actions. And anytime messaging is about 641 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,680 solving something, it's actually a crisis that they created that 642 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,320 they now need to resolve.