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What the fork? 
OK, OK, let's try this again. 

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Welcome to Forking Off the 
Podcast For People Who Said No 

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to Just Following Orders, where 
we explore the very personal 

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decisions behind leaving federal
service, whether by choice or by

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force. 
Every departure has a story, and

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we're here to share them. 
Hi and welcome to this episode 

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of Forking Off I'm Jill Fields. 
And I'm Philip Fields. 

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And today, it's January 20th, 
2026. 

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It's been one year since Trump's
second administration began. 

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It's it's been quite a year, 
huh, Philip? 

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Yeah, yeah. 
It's been a year of upheaval. 

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It's been a year of a lot of 
change. 

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So today we're going to look 
back at that change, how the 

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changes came about so quickly, 
why we should have seen all of 

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this coming, and how we can be 
prepared for the next year. 

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Or three. 
Or three. 

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But today is actually going to 
be our season finale for Season 

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1. 
So Season 2 will be kicking off 

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around the end of February. 
If you haven't subscribed to our

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blog, go ahead and do that and 
you'll get notified when the 

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next episode is ready. 
We've got some good guests lined

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up, but we're still looking for 
a couple of more. 

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If any former feds out there 
want to let us know, or if 

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anybody's been affected by the 
past year's change in policies, 

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we'd love to talk to you as 
well. 

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Yeah. 
And stay tuned, after our 

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closing credits, we will have a 
couple of our bloopers. 

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Couple of mishaps from our 
recording this year. 

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Hello. 
Oh, and Speaking of mishaps, 

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here's our side. 
You don't want to say anything 

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else? 
No, thanks. 

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I just wait to say hello. 
Have fun. 

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All right. 
Thanks, kiddo. 

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All right. 
Oh look, Anything else you 

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wanted to say before we start 
our first round of clips from 

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this year? 
No, let's. 

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Kick it off. 
Get it over with. 

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The executive order came out and
said that this was somehow a 

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grave national injustice and 
that the pardons would begin a 

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process of reconciliation. 
And when we think about 

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reconciliation, we don't think 
about sweeping a problem under a

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rug and ignoring it. 
That's not usually what that 

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means. 
As I've been asked, like when 

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did you know this was different?
And it was day one, January 

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20th, and they're sweeping 
pardons for January 6th 

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defendants. 
There was a complete role 

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reversal where it was. 
We will acquit the guilty and 

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condemn the innocent. 
That is not justice. 

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You've heard the analogy before.
When you put a frog into cold 

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water and then start to turn on 
the heat, the frog's going to 

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sit in that water and basically 
just boil to death. 

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But if you put a frog into 
boiling water, it will jump out 

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immediately. 
And I think that analogy works 

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with why I made the choice to 
leave because there were there 

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were small things that you 
slowly started to notice, or at 

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least I started to notice happen
right around 45 century. 

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We all read Project 2025 and we 
knew that USAID was going to be 

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kind of like a test case for how
to dismantle the federal 

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government and the entire agency
was decimated by Elon Musk. 

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I remember I like wrote in my 
journal, I was like, democracy 

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died today. 
Yeah. 

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So that first like 2-3, four 
weeks, that was like a 

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whirlwind. 
It was wild. 

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Like they came prepared. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

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And when I listened back to 
those clips, it's really 

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interesting to me the different 
perspectives that people had 

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going into this administration. 
I mean, even between you and I, 

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we recognized what was going on 
at different points in time and 

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some people were fully expecting
it and others were like, now 

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we'll make I think by the end of
January 20th. 

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Everybody knew what was coming, 
though. 

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Yeah. 
I mean, the pardons were the big

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thing, but day one, there were 
26 executive orders. 

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And at the end of 2025, there 
were 225, I believe, 225 

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executive orders. 
People talk about legislating 

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from the bench, talking about 
the courts, trying to, like, 

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push through legislation that 
way. 

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Now, this is legislation from 
the Oval Office. 

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Yeah, from the Oval Office. 
So I think when you listen to 

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Christina and she's talking 
about the frog analogy, the 

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first administration, we were in
the cold water, but this time 

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fire's on water's boiling. 
Yeah, I think people are 

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starting to feel the heat. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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So I think that this would be a 
good time to talk some about 

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normalcy bias. 
I've talked about it a lot this 

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past year. 
I just want to to make sure that

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we're highlighting how people 
can realize when it starts to 

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warm up, because that's that's 
that idea. 

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It's that it's this cognitive 
bias. 

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It's a tendency to underestimate
the possibility of disaster. 

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It's this belief that life will 
go on as it has because it has, 

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even in the face of significant 
threats. 

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It's that idea that, well, no, 
he won't actually invade 

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Venezuela and kidnap their 
president. 

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He won't actually drop bombs on 
fishing boats in the Caribbean. 

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He won't actually send military 
into our communities. 

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He won't actually send the 
military to take over Greenland,

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Yeah. 
We as Americans have, Phillip, 

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you said it the other day, like 
we have this American 

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exceptionalism mindset of we're 
the best at democracy. 

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And so everyone just has this 
assumption that America can't 

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fall, it can't falter. 
I mean, that's kind of why we 

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were blind to 911 happening to 
speak in some Intel analyst 

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language. 
Like we really need to be doing 

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some key assumption checks. 
We need to be questioning what 

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happens when our assumption is 
wrong, when we keep thinking 

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they won't do that. 
And I think back to right after 

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the invasion of Venezuela just a
few weeks ago when Marco Rubio 

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was giving a press statement, 
yes. 

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And he said something to the 
effect of when Donald Trump 

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tells you he's going to do 
something, he means it. 

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There are plenty of examples of 
him threatening tariffs and 

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everything and chickening out. 
But. 

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But when it's come to violence, 
you really have to. 

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This is something that I used to
tell my coworkers all the time 

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at the FBI. 
When a terrorist tells you 

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they're going to commit a 
heinous act of violence, you 

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need to take them seriously. 
And when Donald Trump tells you 

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that he's going to use the 
United States government to 

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commit a heinous act of 
violence, you need to take him 

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seriously. 
Absolutely. 

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I talked a little bit about 
normalcy bias. 

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There's this almost subset we 
talked about in more of an 

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individual capacity, the 
bystander effect. 

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We think about that as 
somebody's dying on the street 

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and everybody just walks past 
and doesn't step in to help 

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because they have that 
dissonance going on. 

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Assume somebody else is taking 
care of it. 

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It's like when you see an 
accident on the highway and 

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you're like, oh, I don't need to
call Highway Patrol because 

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somebody else has already done 
that. 

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Right. 
The more people there are 

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watching this event, the more 
people there are watching what 

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is happening to America. 
There's this diffusion of 

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responsibility. 
Everybody expects that somebody 

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else is going to be the one to 
step in. 

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Nobody's coming to save us. 
We have to save ourselves. 

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Yeah, so nobody's coming to 
save. 

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Us, right? 
Looking forward, in 2026 and 

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beyond, we're going to continue 
to experience these cognitive 

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shocks, this shock to our 
conscience, this rapid 

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normalization of deviance that 
we've been seeing. 

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We have to push back on that. 
We have to social proof society.

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We have to find a way to counter
that normative shift, because 

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the more this happens, the more 
normalized it becomes and the 

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harder it is to recognize it and
the harder it is to stop it. 

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I want to mention, like a lot of
people are like, Oh well, but 

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the courts will stop it. 
Here's the thing. 

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The courts have put down orders 
saying, OK, you can't do this. 

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Oh, you can't do that. 
And they've been ignored. 

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I mean, the courts aren't able 
to fully hold them accountable 

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because they're being ignored. 
I just want to put a really fine

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point on what I mean when I say 
we have to social proof our 

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society. 
We have a tendency as organized 

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groups of people to emulate the 
behavior and the norms of those 

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around us. 
And as that behavior shifts, our

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behavior shifts with it. 
That's what I mean. 

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We have to push back against 
that. 

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Yeah. 
So it really, it does go back to

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that whole, we've all assumed 
that everything's normal, 

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everything's going to stay 
normal. 

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And we're like, Oh well, they 
won't do that. 

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Well, they won't do that. 
Speaking of why they won't do 

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that? 
It was just a series of what 

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they won't do that. 
Well, they won't do that. 

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Whatever that was they did. 
I've gone through like 6 or 7 

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administration changes. 
Never seen anything like this. 

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You know, You know, the closest 
I could kind of come up with was

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reading about McCarthyism. 
You're sorry? 

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My wife's German. 
So she would talk about, yeah, 

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we've been through this before. 
We call it the Stasi. 

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And I remember when someone came
back and said there had been 

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several arrests of undocumented 
immigrants. 

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The question raised, did they 
have any criminal records? 

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And they were like, not to my 
knowledge. 

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And there's just the audible 
gasp in the room because we're 

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all like, what are we doing to 
essentially relinquish the power

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that we have to undermine 
justice? 

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I can't be part of that. 
We do not serve at the pleasure 

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of the White House. 
We serve the American people. 

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That line between White House 
and DOJ had been obliterated. 

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It didn't matter that there 
should be a separation. 

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There was not going to be. 
If you have a politician telling

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you who to charge, which is 
what's happening, there is no 

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integrity in the system. 
That's not real justice. 

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We are really on the verge of 
becoming Russia right now. 

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And that sounds like hyperbole, 
but badly. 

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You have to look at it through 
the lens of reality in order to 

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understand just how true it is. 
If you are a grantee and you 

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call your EPA contact and they 
never call you back, you start 

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to panic and so you call your 
Congressperson, They call EPA. 

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And the person they call the EPA
was me. 

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So I was being told to 
essentially Stonewall and lie to

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members of Congress. 
And so it became a choice 

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between do I keep my job or do I
keep my voice? 

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And I chose to keep my voice. 
Well, the administrator himself 

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said I was an example of the 
kind of employee who, and I'm 

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going to use air quotes, makes 
his job more difficult. 

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And my immediate response was 
good because my job has been 

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really difficult. 
Andrew said it best, like our 

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jobs became so difficult. 
It's so forking difficult. 

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So forking difficult, No, I 
mean, and it became impossible 

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to do our jobs in the way that 
our jobs were meant to be done. 

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But that was part of what the 
administration was working on. 

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They were changing our mindset. 
They were bombarding us with 

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changes so that we couldn't keep
up, which meant that everything 

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was changing so fast. 
Yeah, and that's by design, 

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right? 
Right. 

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I remember very vividly still, I
was talking with a group of 

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other former coworkers shortly 
after I had made the decision to

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leave. 
I was trying to open their eyes 

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to this shift that was taking 
place across the American 

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Society, not just in the 
government, but what was coming.

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And I got a lot of pushback 
because it sounds irrational. 

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It sounds unbelievable when you 
try and equate what is going on 

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there to this old German term 
that I can't pronounce. 

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But Gleichel tongue. 
It's this word that didn't even 

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really exist in German 
dictionaries before the 3rd 

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Reich, and it's this idea of 
synchronization and coordination

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across all of German society. 
It's the same idea that we're 

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seeing currently with the Trump 
administration. 

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It's the synchronization and 
coordination to implement this 

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system of totalitarian control. 
It's not just the government, 

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it's trade, it's the economy, 
it's our cultural institutions, 

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it's our educational 
institutions, it's our media 

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outlets. 
It's everything. 

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It sounds alarmist when you hear
it because we've been in this 

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mindset of, oh, we're free, 
there's this democracy, and 

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we're American. 
And so it does. 

230
00:12:56,560 --> 00:13:01,520
It sounds so shocking. 
And then you start looking at 

231
00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,800
everything. 
I mean, you're right, Philip. 

232
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They were going after the media.
They were going after 

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businesses. 
They were threatening to pull 

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funding from educational 
institutions. 

235
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And then telling us all it's not
what we think it is and that 

236
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we're being irrational. 
It is, in modern terms, 

237
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:22,720
industrialized gaslighting. 
Yeah. 

238
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:27,600
It's this erosion of reality 
we've talked about with you with

239
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,400
several people now, this idea 
that we're all in this 

240
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,440
emotionally abusive 
relationship, even to say just 

241
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,440
emotionally, isn't an accurate 
characterization anymore. 

242
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,160
We are in an abusive 
relationship with our 

243
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,000
government. 
Overtime, it creates this sense 

244
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,760
of learned helplessness. 
If we don't push back, if we 

245
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:51,240
just continue to take it and we 
conform to it, we lose our 

246
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,360
ability to actually break out of
it. 

247
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,960
I remember back when all of the 
immigration push started coming,

248
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,640
I was complaining to somebody 
like, Oh my gosh, this is just 

249
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:04,560
wild. 
Like, this isn't what we do. 

250
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:09,280
And I remember them saying to 
me, well, I mean, get used to 

251
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:10,440
it. 
We got four years of this. 

252
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,400
And I was like, no, no, no, no, 
no. 

253
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,080
No, no, no, no, no. 
No, no, we don't. 

254
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,280
No, we're not. 
This is not something we get 

255
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,440
used to. 
This is something we need to 

256
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,760
start on the front end saying 
whoa, whoa, whoa, what are we 

257
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:25,800
doing? 
This is not OK. 

258
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,480
But I mean, that dichotomy of 
thought, well, you have to 

259
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,240
because that's who's in power 
right now. 

260
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,520
No, no, no, no, no, no. 
My oath still stands. 

261
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:38,760
I still uphold the Constitution.
I still protect the American 

262
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,760
people. 
I don't have an oath to one man.

263
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,880
I have an oath to the 
Constitution and the people. 

264
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,400
And I'd like to give people a 
kind of example of the 

265
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:52,400
gaslighting they should be 
expecting in this coming year 

266
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,360
and what they should be watching
for and how they can recognize 

267
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,120
it and stop it. 
I think a lot of people are 

268
00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,800
picking up on this. 
But when we see protesters in 

269
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,760
the streets, and when they are, 
I'll use the word antagonizing 

270
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,360
ICE, they're yelling at them. 
They're telling them we don't 

271
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,160
want you here. 
That is First Amendment 

272
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,800
protected activity. 
That is your right as an 

273
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,400
American citizen to tell your 
government that you think that 

274
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,120
what they're doing is wrong. 
But when you then start seeing 

275
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:27,120
the administration describe that
as terroristic threats, threats 

276
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,360
of terrorism, calling them 
domestic terrorists, there's a 

277
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,960
tool that you can use that the 
Supreme Court has set out for us

278
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,640
when there's a threat. 
It's called the Brandenburg 

279
00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,520
test. 
We'll include some information 

280
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,320
about it in the show notes, but 
it's a 2 prong test. 

281
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,880
It comes down to really, is that
speech or expression directed to

282
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:50,640
incite or produce this is 
important imminent lawless 

283
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,160
action. 
And if it's not, then it doesn't

284
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:58,400
pass the test. 
But even if their intent might 

285
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:03,440
be to produce that type of 
imminent lawless action, is it 

286
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,400
likely to induce or produce such
action? 

287
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,800
If those two factors aren't met,
that's not a threat. 

288
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,160
They can't do anything about it.
Standing in the street and 

289
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,400
saying we don't like ice is not 
a violation of any law. 

290
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:24,400
I even I hesitate to say this, 
but George Orwell has a quote 

291
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,800
and it says the Party told you 
to reject the evidence of your 

292
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,200
eyes and ears. 
It was their final most 

293
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,560
essential command. 
If you are seeing something and 

294
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:38,320
you are seeing an action happen,
and then you have someone tell 

295
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,640
you that what you saw is not 
true. 

296
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:46,680
Yes, we do live in a day of AI 
and AI generated images, so you 

297
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,320
need to question what's going on
and you need to do your own 

298
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:55,000
research. 
But don't just automatically 

299
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:59,720
believe or if something seems so
outrageous and it completely 

300
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,520
contradicts every eyewitness 
account. 

301
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,960
I'd encourage people to go 
beyond doing their own research 

302
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:07,800
because that's how we got Q 
Anon. 

303
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:09,319
Yeah, that's true. 
That's true. 

304
00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:10,400
Don't do that. 
Don't do that. 

305
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:11,760
Never mind. 
Don't listen to me. 

306
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:13,440
No, no, you're, you're right 
though. 

307
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:18,000
People need to look past those 
initial claims and those initial

308
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:23,200
refutations. 
They need to find trustworthy 

309
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:28,720
institutions and organizations 
and voices who they can rely on 

310
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,400
to answer that question of what 
should I be deriving from this? 

311
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:36,240
I think what I especially 
realized in working for the 

312
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:41,280
county and seeing how very much,
especially during 45 and then 

313
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:47,080
now as 47, the immediate impact 
that a decision that he makes 

314
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,920
instantly flows its way down 
into the field is really 

315
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,320
upsetting because I believe in 
our checks and balances. 

316
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,640
I believe in how our government 
works, you know, and frankly, 

317
00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,440
being on the outside, like 
watching what's happening now 

318
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,760
with the Bureau is so gut 
wrenching. 

319
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:09,000
I also think that what we're 
seeing right now happen with the

320
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,920
intelligence community is almost
a deprecation of what is going 

321
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,120
to be available to the private 
sector. 

322
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,880
I have lots of private sector 
colleagues who rely heavily on 

323
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,920
annual threat assessments that 
come out. 

324
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,040
And if they start to question 
whether or not those documents 

325
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,400
are valid, be done at all, what 
are they going to do? 

326
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,920
How are they going to fill that 
void? 

327
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,040
And a lot of it is going to sit 
with all the federal employees 

328
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,040
who are coming out into the 
private sector and just how 

329
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,720
valuable their body of knowledge
is. 

330
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,680
Intelligence analysts are 
today's Unicorn. 

331
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:47,360
So what I wanted to do with my 
business was try to rebuild and 

332
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:50,600
reinvent what we are doing in 
violence prevention so that it 

333
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,520
doesn't rely completely on the 
government, because violence 

334
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,320
does not end when the government
ignores it. 

335
00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,680
In fact, it is currently getting
worse. 

336
00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:04,000
It's on us now to take that and 
to try to do something else with

337
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:08,280
it because that was a gift while
it lasted and they're counting 

338
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:09,800
on us, whether they know it or 
not. 

339
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,560
You had within. 
A couple of months, literally 

340
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,880
hundreds of organizations around
the country who were relying on 

341
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,120
funding from EPA to do their 
jobs and to pay their people and

342
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:22,800
and to help their communities 
who no longer had access to 

343
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,480
their money and whose calls to 
EPA were not being answered. 

344
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,920
It's also just. 
Been really hard having the 

345
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,560
skill set that I have and 
watching the last few months of 

346
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,760
politics and political violence 
in America and divisiveness and 

347
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,280
these things. 
Being a stability expert. 

348
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,280
We're in a very unstable 
situation economically. 

349
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:46,040
I've studied enough economics in
fragile states to know that 

350
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,440
economic shocks are a common. 
They're like, what's your plan? 

351
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,080
Like our plan is to survive. 
Intellectual property supports 

352
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,120
about 8 trillion of the gross 
domestic product of the United 

353
00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:59,360
States. 
So numbers matter and truth 

354
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:01,320
matters. 
So let's talk truth. 

355
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,960
First of all, where I've been 
able to summarize anything with 

356
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,520
respect to what has happened 
over the last nine months is the

357
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,800
the stated goals do not match 
the reality of the consequences 

358
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:18,920
of their actions. 
And anytime messaging is about 

359
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:23,760
solving something, it's actually
a crisis that they created that 

360
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:29,240
they now need to resolve. 
That's a lot to unpack, Phillip.

361
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,560
Yeah, this is a big. 
One, this is. 

362
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,720
There's a lot here, yeah. 
Like. 

363
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,360
Nikki said there is a 
deprecation in the intelligence 

364
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:40,280
community and what's going to be
available there. 

365
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,280
And that's that's so true. 
And that hits on multiple 

366
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,880
aspects of our society. 
But I mean, Molly's talking 

367
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:53,720
about like we're losing money. 
It is an economic impact to lose

368
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,120
everything that the government 
has lost this year. 

369
00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:01,800
I think this statistic is 
318,000 employees left federal 

370
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,960
service last year and it's 
normally between what we say 100

371
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:10,560
and 100 and. 50,000 thousand. 
And that's like for retirements 

372
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,600
usually or no, that's 
retirements again, retirements. 

373
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,360
Resignations across the entire 
government not concentrated in 

374
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:20,280
specific agencies that are being
targeted, right? 

375
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,760
And normally people are being 
hired to replace those. 

376
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,640
Nobody's being hired to replace 
like USAID gone. 

377
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,480
We talked to Allen Dinkoff and 
he mentioned 600,000 deaths 

378
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,080
worldwide, 400 thousand of those
were children because of the 

379
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,840
shuttering of USAID. 
Yeah. 

380
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,480
And I think the projection. 
That he cited in the coming 

381
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,040
years was something like 14 
million people around the world,

382
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:46,960
right? 
Like it's. 

383
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,120
Not just a oh, these jobs were 
cut. 

384
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,200
People are suffering. 
Sarah D you she was working on 

385
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:59,080
massive projects with DHS, with 
Homeland Security on violence 

386
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:00,800
prevention. 
Yeah, that. 

387
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,120
Deprecation of the intelligence 
community. 

388
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:06,880
It's not just the intelligence 
community, it's reverberating 

389
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,760
throughout the entire U.S. 
government. 

390
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,320
It's filtering down to state and
local governments, like 

391
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,680
Christine mentioned. 
It's impacting people 

392
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,840
everywhere. 
Like Madeline said, we know how 

393
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,480
this goes. 
We've seen it in other countries

394
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,960
before. 
It can happen here. 

395
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,440
It is happening here. 
I want to go back to something 

396
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,280
you said earlier. 
I may have been a little too 

397
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,880
critical of doing your own 
research. 

398
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,840
I do want people to do their own
research, but I also want people

399
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,440
to, as Mr. Rogers put it, find 
the helpers. 

400
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,880
One of the things right now that
that I think we hit on a lot 

401
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,120
here, Molly said. 
These are crises, crises that 

402
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:51,880
they've created that they now 
need to solve. 

403
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,160
That type of situation where 
they come to us, present us with

404
00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:01,160
this crisis that requires this 
extreme act to fix, that is what

405
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:06,120
we call deception. 
And that we have tools to try 

406
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:09,040
and detect that type of 
deception and to counter that 

407
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:13,160
type of misinformation. 
But I, I want to emphasize that 

408
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:17,960
even the best intelligence 
analysts in the IC have a very 

409
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,160
hard time doing deception 
detection well. 

410
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,560
And I want to talk about why, 
Because good deception doesn't 

411
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,360
leave behind evidence. 
If somebody does deception, 

412
00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:32,080
well, you'll never see it. 
But bad deception calls into 

413
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,560
question all of the facts, all 
of the evidence. 

414
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,880
It makes it hard for us to 
determine what is real and what 

415
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,720
is not. 
And there are some tools that we

416
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,000
can use. 
We need to decide does this 

417
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,280
person have the motive, the 
opportunity and the means to 

418
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,440
deceive us? 
The mom. 

419
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,320
Yeah, Mom. 
Pop Moses and Eve, right? 

420
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,480
These are the tools. 
People can look these up on 

421
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,200
their own. 
I won't beat them too hard. 

422
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,480
But Mom, mode of opportunities 
and beings to deceive. 

423
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,000
Does the US government have 
that? 

424
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:08,200
Yeah, But past opposition 
practices, Pop, Does the Trump 

425
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,760
administration have a history of
deceiving the American public? 

426
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:16,200
Maybe. 
OK, now. 

427
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,240
Now we need to really start 
paying attention, Moses. 

428
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,800
Should we be concerned about the
manipulability of sources? 

429
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:28,240
Are these sources reliable? 
Sources who talk to us, humans 

430
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,520
giving us their opinion, are 
less reliable than tangible 

431
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,320
facts, material facts. 
We need to look for things 

432
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,360
beyond just what we're told. 
Maybe video evidence that 

433
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:44,000
circulates on the Internet when 
the government tells us that 

434
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,840
that's not actually what 
happened. 

435
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,760
And the last one is Eve, we need
to learn from the evaluation of 

436
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,240
evidence and not just the 
evidence that we have, but the 

437
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,040
evidence that we don't have. 
Are there things that we don't 

438
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,200
have access to that could tell 
us the answer here? 

439
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,200
Yeah. 
Looking at that, especially the 

440
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,320
E, like looking at the evidence,
look at DOJ, look at the 

441
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,120
Department of Justice and the 
brain drain there with the 

442
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,800
firings of attorneys who brought
the January 6th cases, the 

443
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,680
firing of attorneys who would 
not go after political rivals, 

444
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,320
the resignations, those are 
huge. 

445
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,720
They were looking at the 
evidence that was presented to 

446
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:28,000
them and as attorneys, as 
experts in looking at evidence 

447
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:33,000
to present cases, they said no, 
this does not meet the threshold

448
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,440
and refused to compromise 
themselves. 

449
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,720
And losing that type of 
discernment within our 

450
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,440
government puts the American 
people at risk. 

451
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,800
We have already seen cases be 
thrown out because they are not 

452
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,040
meeting that threshold that they
need to meet. 

453
00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:56,520
This is a this is a concern that
things are probably being done 

454
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,920
incorrectly and not just within 
the Department of Justice. 

455
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,040
Yeah, it's. 
It's a hollowing out of our 

456
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,440
foundations, and it calls into 
question the economic stability 

457
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,160
of the United States. 
And that can have profound 

458
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,320
impacts around the globe, but 
also in the way that they're 

459
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,360
fired. 
That's another absence of 

460
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:17,440
evidence. 
In normal times, there would be 

461
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,720
a process to remove an employee,
to allow them to challenge their

462
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,960
removal and to actually bring 
evidence. 

463
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,160
None of that is there, so none 
of that can be questioned. 

464
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,960
We're just expected to believe 
that they all deserved it. 

465
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,880
They all deserved. 
It and and we've had people say 

466
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,080
well, oh, they should file 
whistleblower complaints they 

467
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:43,320
should do this look, Philip, I 
know we I mean tell them your 

468
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,520
experience real quick no, I'm. 
Not going to go into it, but the

469
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,240
whistleblower process is broken.
It barely worked before. 

470
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,160
To expect that an Inspector 
General who works for Pam Bondi 

471
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,200
is going to be the one who comes
in and save us, that is not 

472
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,640
living in our current reality, 
Yeah. 

473
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,440
So, Philip, how do we get out of
the pit of despair? 

474
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,840
How do we move on? 
Probably a lot of us are trying 

475
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,600
to figure out like, what do all 
these skills that I accumulated,

476
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,400
what do they mean in the real 
world? 

477
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,320
And where do I go from here? 
And how do I leverage those 

478
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,680
skills in any facet of life, but
especially in this time, Like, 

479
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,760
don't suffer in silence. 
Don't suffer alone. 

480
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,320
Like, it's a trying time. 
But I think we kind of all do 

481
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,280
better when we're working 
together. 

482
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,560
I can't believe I'm 30. 
Six years old and I'm they're 

483
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,480
like, what is your plan? 
I'm like, my plan is to start a 

484
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,880
YouTube channel and I don't 
really have a plan after that. 

485
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:36,200
I'm just. 
Embracing. 

486
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,680
The young side, because I don't 
know, I feel like I've been a 

487
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,200
little, I don't know, betrayed 
might be too strong a word. 

488
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:46,240
Definitely let down by the 
advice of the elders to speak it

489
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,440
into existence. 
I truly am trying to or I'm 

490
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,880
going to start a social 
movement, a cultural revolution,

491
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,760
if you will, to make civic 
engagement part of people's 

492
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,560
everyday life. 
I really want to make this a 

493
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,680
lifestyle because I myself 
realized that I was able to turn

494
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,240
my despair into action. 
And then once I, I did, I 

495
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,160
started to have a lot more 
agency over my life again, it 

496
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,640
gave me hope. 
All the stories that were wiped 

497
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,120
away from USAID should be 
captured in a way that's 

498
00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:19,720
truthful and, and honest and 
like, in a way that's honoring 

499
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,080
like the six decades of service 
that people have dedicated into 

500
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,240
this. 
And it was so incredibly 

501
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,240
powerful. 
On opening night, I was like 

502
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,760
sitting on this piano bench and 
watching people perceive my art.

503
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,880
And there were so many people 
that just stood in front of my 

504
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,360
paintings and cried, and I've 
never experienced anything like 

505
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:39,800
that. 
By me resigning, we were able to

506
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,600
take our children out of daycare
and I was able to stay home with

507
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,880
them. 
So that's 5000 a month that 

508
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:50,160
we're not paying in childcare. 
And I'm able to spend more time 

509
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,800
with the kids and get a business
going too. 

510
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,480
I'm so thankful to be where I'm 
at right now. 

511
00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:01,720
I love the resilience and the 
positivity that we've seen. 

512
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,760
And looking back on everything, 
it's very easy to get into that 

513
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,880
cycle. 
Oh, no, everything is terrible. 

514
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,760
Everything's falling apart. 
Oh, it's the pit of despair. 

515
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,360
But we don't have to be stuck 
there. 

516
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,080
I love Brian's story. 
Like he knew it was time to 

517
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:24,000
resign and he found the positive
in that of, OK, we're going to 

518
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,800
be saving money on childcare. 
He's getting to spend time, be 

519
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,960
at home with his three kids. 
But start this business, which 

520
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,200
is a dream of his. 
Since childhood, he has loved 

521
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,440
collecting baseball cards and 
trading cards. 

522
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,520
And here he is now starting this
great business and he's bringing

523
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,640
joy to so many people. 
I mean, people are finding ways.

524
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,040
Mike Johnson, he's going back to
school, he's getting a master's 

525
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,520
degree and he's supporting 
veterans. 

526
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,720
He's mentoring veterans. 
There's so much people are 

527
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,040
finding their way through this. 
They're finding ways to give 

528
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,920
back. 
That is the public servant heart

529
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,600
right there. 
Yeah. 

530
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,480
And. 
We've sort of hit on now Sarah 

531
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,360
Digu talked about it. 
We've got to rebuild these 

532
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,280
services for society from the 
outside. 

533
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,480
And now when I thought about 
that, I thought about, OK, 

534
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,520
that's, that's hard. 
That's a lot like there's a lot 

535
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,320
that I don't know about how the 
rest of the world works outside 

536
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,720
of my intelligence background. 
What tools can I use to help me 

537
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,640
do that? 
And I want to throw in another 

538
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,160
one here. 
It's a way to reset our mindset 

539
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,040
and address these problems. 
It's called outside in thinking.

540
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,720
It is a way of of considering 
all of the forces that exist 

541
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,160
outside of our expertise and how
they might shape the issues that

542
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,920
we're going to have to address. 
But how do we do that? 

543
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,360
There are a lot of different 
acronyms here, even just for all

544
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,840
of the same things. 
But if you want to Google One, 

545
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:57,160
you can Google Stimples Plus or 
PEST or STEEP or PESTLE Steeple.

546
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,640
It doesn't matter. 
The idea here is that we need to

547
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,400
think about all of the social 
factors, the technological 

548
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,960
factors, the economic factors, 
political, legal, environmental,

549
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:13,240
security, psychological, 
demographics, ethics, morals. 

550
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:18,320
These are important ones. 
How those impact our ability to 

551
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,400
process the information 
environment and to make plans 

552
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,800
and make sure that those plans 
are going to set us up for 

553
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:27,920
success. 
Because what I see from a lot of

554
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,840
corporate America right now is 
they're ignoring things like the

555
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,960
political factors and the 
military factors and the 

556
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,280
security factors. 
They're very focused on the 

557
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,760
economic factors. 
Just because our economy is 

558
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,360
ignoring the problem right now 
doesn't mean a year from now 

559
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,840
it's going to be able to. 
As we're working through our 

560
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,280
resilience and building our 
civic fitness, we need to be 

561
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,680
considering all of these 
factors, absolutely. 

562
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,920
We do need to be considering 
these factors and if you want to

563
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:02,760
talk about like impact and 
seeing an actual impact, people 

564
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:07,400
making the change. 
When the FTC chairman threatened

565
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:12,960
Jimmy Kimmel and threatened his 
show, he was put on a temporary 

566
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,120
leave. 
He was basically put on admin 

567
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,760
leave, like a lot of us were. 
People pushed back. 

568
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,120
They canceled their Disney Plus 
subscriptions. 

569
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,080
They made a point of saying 
something that shows you the 

570
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,120
power that we have because he 
was back the next week. 

571
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,840
Yeah, the courts. 
Didn't do that. 

572
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,040
Congress didn't do that. 
Governors didn't do that. 

573
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,240
People did that. 
Yes, people. 

574
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,360
Did that. 
That really puts it into 

575
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,400
perspective. 
Anna said it really well. 

576
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:48,440
She put her despair into action.
It wasn't great huge giant 

577
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,680
leaps. 
It was small things. 

578
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,960
Anna has her social media 
presence. 

579
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,920
She's Anna fired fed on 
Instagram and on TikTok and she 

580
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,680
puts out videos that show small 
ways that you can make an impact

581
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,960
in your community. 
And that's really where we have 

582
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,400
to start is within our 
communities. 

583
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,080
Anna's also started a podcast 
called Left in the attic. 

584
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:09,520
Go check it out. 
It's great. 

585
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,160
It's her and one of her old 
colleagues deep, so check it 

586
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,640
out. 
But she's showing ways to make a

587
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,440
difference. 
Even if it's a small difference.

588
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,240
It makes a difference. 
And never know who is watching 

589
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,200
you and who is watching your 
action. 

590
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,480
You can be that light and you 
can be that inspiration, and 

591
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,600
there are so. 
Many more examples like that. 

592
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,200
There's former feds and friends 
that Madeline is working on. 

593
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,120
It's an. 
Amazing way to use fiction to 

594
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,640
make people think about how 
these things affect society and 

595
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,320
how we can process them and how 
we can come through. 

596
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:50,080
Jordan is doing the Fed up and 
she's helping people write about

597
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,560
their experience and learn how 
to speak about what it is that 

598
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,440
they've gone through and 
building community. 

599
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:57,600
I mean we. 
We. 

600
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,360
Can keep going. 
I mean Ali and her artwork. 

601
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,520
Check it out, it's amazing. 
From the American. 

602
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:04,960
People. 
Oh gosh. 

603
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,440
It is gorgeous, Molly. 
She is not in public service 

604
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,159
now. 
She's back in private practice, 

605
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,440
but she is helping people. 
Yeah, we. 

606
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,320
Interviewed 3 different 
attorneys from three very 

607
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,880
different fields and all of them
are now taking their skills and 

608
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,239
experience out into the legal 
profession to help people make 

609
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:26,560
it through this time. 
Oh yeah. 

610
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:30,719
Yes, the list goes on. 
Patty's volunteering with NARF 

611
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,880
and doing therapy visits with 
her dog and I don't want to 

612
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:34,760
leave. 
Anybody out? 

613
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,159
John Cordles book Letters to 
Myself? 

614
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,080
Yeah. 
John is doing. 

615
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,920
Amazing advocacy work for people
in the military. 

616
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,440
Go back and listen to. 
This episode, if you haven't 

617
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,600
listened to it or you've 
listened to it before, listen to

618
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:51,320
it because what we are losing 
there with our military and with

619
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,880
force readiness and their 
safety, the amount of our. 

620
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,360
Resources that were consolidated
dating in the Caribbean when we 

621
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,840
have threats growing around the 
globe there's just so much to 

622
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,320
talk about there there's so so. 
Much When all these changes 

623
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,280
start happening and I started 
seeing a little alarm bells, it 

624
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,480
was kind of like, am I crazy? 
There aren't any metaphysical 

625
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,480
guardrails. 
They're just going to protect 

626
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,360
America. 
The guardrails are US. 

627
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,320
I just knew for me, I was not 
going to wait around until I 

628
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,320
really got in that position 
where it was like, are you 

629
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,360
willing to break the law? 
I just want to say to others who

630
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,040
are out there who may be still 
feeling that they are alone in 

631
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,200
this, you're not crazy. 
Things are bad. 

632
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,840
There is a lot of, you know, 
destruction that is happening 

633
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,480
right now. 
But I also think there's a lot 

634
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:47,120
of us that still deeply care. 
Authoritarianism thrives on our 

635
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,160
silence. 
It thrives on our fear. 

636
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,360
It thrives on our silence. 
And so if we could all find what

637
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,760
we can, but it's going to take 
us to have to take some risk. 

638
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,560
It's not always going to be 
comfortable creating a community

639
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,360
of folks who are doing the same 
thing. 

640
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,320
That's what's needed right now. 
Like, I really, really believe 

641
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,440
that. 
And I believe that if more 

642
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,760
people took civic actions on a 
consistent basis, we would build

643
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,160
more community, strengthen our 
democracy and honestly help 

644
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,160
people improve their mental 
health in a time where a lot of 

645
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,360
us feel very helpless and 
hopeless and scared, to be 

646
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,840
honest. 
You know, Sarah, Sarah 

647
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,400
Hernandez, not Sarah DG, but 
Sarah, she mentioned like, there

648
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:30,800
aren't any metaphysical 
guardrails. 

649
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,160
Like, I mean, those guardrails 
were gone. 

650
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:38,200
We are the guardrails, and we 
have a responsibility as 

651
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,760
Americans to be those 
guardrails. 

652
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,200
You see something wrong, say 
something. 

653
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,080
Don't be afraid to say something
when something is wrong. 

654
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:52,320
Don't be pushed into a corner 
and think that you can't speak 

655
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,000
up. 
You can. 

656
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,880
And speaking up can be so 
simple. 

657
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,520
Anna mentioned it in her episode
with us. 

658
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:04,160
Like, it can be as simple as 
liking a post on social media, 

659
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,560
reposting something, making a 
comment somewhere because 

660
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,880
somebody may see that you 
commented on it and they're 

661
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,600
like, OK, it's OK for me to like
that. 

662
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,480
It's OK for me to do that. 
Like when we went to that 

663
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:23,440
dinner, Phillip, somebody said 
to us like, oh, I'm so afraid to

664
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,880
like anything or say anything 
these days. 

665
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,360
There's got to be somebody out 
there doing something. 

666
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,520
And we were like, no, you, you 
need to do something. 

667
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,080
If you don't like it, do 
something. 

668
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,320
Yeah, it's. 
Everybody's responsibility to do

669
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,080
something. 
I keep saying this. 

670
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,360
Nobody's coming to save us. 
Nobody is. 

671
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,600
Coming to save us. 
But I also want to, I want to 

672
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,400
push out, be kind, be kind to 
others. 

673
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,960
I know, I know it's tense. 
That's hard. 

674
00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:54,280
It is hard. 
It's so hard. 

675
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,840
But this is something like 
Philip right now. 

676
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:02,040
This is not an US versus them 
situation. 

677
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,000
We are America. 
We are one. 

678
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,760
We are a melting pot of all 
types of different cultures. 

679
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:14,880
We can all believe different 
things, and that's OK, But we 

680
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,000
can't be violent against each 
other. 

681
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,400
We need to have a future, we 
need to have a tomorrow, and we 

682
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,960
need to find some common ground.
Yeah, now is the. 

683
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,240
Time to find allies. 
And that's not just in our 

684
00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:31,120
neighbors and our coworkers, 
that's with our local police 

685
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,280
departments, with our state 
police departments, with our our

686
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,120
local government officials. 
Those are the kind of people 

687
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,200
that we're going to need to help
us in the coming year, in the 

688
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,800
coming three years, because 
those are the people who can 

689
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:51,520
actually step in and help us. 
So I want to make a case for as 

690
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,200
Jordan said so eloquently, now 
is the time people wake up. 

691
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,440
Wake the fork up. 
But seriously, now is the time 

692
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,920
for people to wake up, shake off
their biases, weigh the facts, 

693
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,960
question the claims, get 
civically fit, challenge 

694
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,440
authority, resist conformity, 
and demand accountability from 

695
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,440
our government. 
Now is the time for all of that,

696
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,120
absolutely. 
There is something I do want to 

697
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,840
address here. 
I had a friend who was talking 

698
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,000
about our closing to the 
listeners still in government, 

699
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,120
you know, remember your 
integrity is worth more than 

700
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,280
your TSP Keep your ethics, keep 
your dignity, and we'll keep 

701
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,400
telling these stories. 
That's not a call out saying 

702
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,000
that people that have stayed in 
government service shouldn't be 

703
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,120
there. 
No, that means if you're there, 

704
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,720
remember your oath and remember 
why you're there. 

705
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,800
Yeah, and. 
We're not just talking to people

706
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,560
who aren't in government, we're 
talking to everyone. 

707
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:54,360
It is everyone's responsibility 
to do the right thing and to 

708
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,280
stand up when something is 
wrong. 

709
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,640
So yeah, that closing, that's 
not lip service to one side, 

710
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,760
That's not a jab at the other 
side. 

711
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:07,120
That is a reminder to do the 
right things for the right 

712
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,040
reasons. 
And if you're struggling to 

713
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:13,120
remember what those are? 
Come on out and join us, yeah? 

714
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,440
Give us a call. 
So Phillip, we went through 

715
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,280
2025. 
We did. 

716
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,120
We're now in 20. 26 What can we 
expect to see this year? 

717
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,160
What are some things we could 
possibly see or things that we 

718
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,680
should be looking for? 
Throughout 2026, we're going to 

719
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,640
have to continue to check our 
biases. 

720
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,720
We're going to have to continue 
to watch for that normalcy bias.

721
00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:39,920
We're going to have to continue 
to try not to be the bystander 

722
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,960
who doesn't step in. 
We're going to have to rebuild 

723
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,920
all of our institutions. 
We're going to have to continue 

724
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,720
to monitor for and try and 
identify and counter deceptive 

725
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:54,920
practices. 
We need to be watching for 

726
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,320
things that right now sound 
outrageous. 

727
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,280
We need to be watching what is 
happening in Greenland and 

728
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:05,040
making sure if our government 
tries to do the wrong thing that

729
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,960
we're ready to step in. 
We need to go back to when 

730
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,720
Russia invaded Ukraine and think
about how the United States 

731
00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:13,840
countered Russia's offensive 
there. 

732
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,720
We could have done a lot more, 
but the main thing that we did 

733
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:21,520
do is we called Russia out every
step of the way in no uncertain 

734
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,840
terms. 
There was no tone policing about

735
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,240
what Russia was doing. 
We were saying no, that is 

736
00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:28,840
wrong. 
And that's what everybody needs 

737
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,240
to be doing right now. 
We need to be saying no, 

738
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:34,800
invading Venezuela was wrong. 
Capturing the president of 

739
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,720
another country, whether we like
him or not, is wrong. 

740
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,560
Invading Greenland, threatening 
Greenland, that is wrong. 

741
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,120
Threatening the. 
American people that they have 

742
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:48,720
to carry citizenship papers with
them at all times and be ready 

743
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:52,360
to present them that is wrong. 
America was. 

744
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:56,480
Founded on the idea that we 
would take the time hired the 

745
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,320
weak, the wretched and the poor 
from everywhere and give them a 

746
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,360
place to live. 
That is what America is. 

747
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,880
That is what it means to be an 
American. 

748
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,160
Anything that is contrary to 
that is wrong. 

749
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,040
Yeah, and on a somewhat. 
Lighter note. 

750
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,800
We put together a little clip of
some of our our favorite quotes 

751
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,200
from this first season. 
You know, maybe a little less 

752
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,280
fascism. 
I remember I like wrote in my 

753
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,280
journal, I was like, democracy 
died today. 

754
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,400
I feel like I've said that so 
many times this year. 

755
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,600
Democracy died today. 
And you always say to me, no, 

756
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:41,360
Jill, it's been dead. 
RIP like now's the time. 

757
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:49,960
People wake up and that's it. 
That is the message for 2026, 

758
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,800
yeah. 
So 2025, there was a lot that 

759
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,360
was torn down. 
There's a lot that's been 

760
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:04,800
destroyed, broken. 2026, it's 
time for us to come together and

761
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,800
we're rebuilding and we're 
building a community. 

762
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,760
And I hope that you stay with us
for Season 2. 

763
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,240
We got some great people coming 
that are going to be talking 

764
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:17,520
about how we can, how we can 
rebuild and what they're doing 

765
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:21,520
to rebuild in their communities.
Thanks so much for forking off 

766
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,000
with us this season. 
Thanks for. 

767
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,200
Tuning into this episode of 
Forking off to our listeners 

768
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,560
still in government, remember 
your integrity is worth more 

769
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,280
than your TSP. 
Leaving doesn't mean giving up 

770
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,440
on public service, it just means
finding new ways to serve until 

771
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,320
next. 
Time, keep your ethics. 

772
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,360
Keep your dignity. 
And we'll keep telling. 

773
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,320
These stories if you're a 
former. 

774
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,440
Fed with a story to tell? 
Or you're wrestling with your 

775
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,200
own ethical crossroads. 
Reach out to us at 

776
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:53,960
info@forkingoff.com. 
Today's episode was created, 

777
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,400
produced, and edited by Jill and
Phillip Fields. 

778
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,760
You can find more information 
about this episode at 

779
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,840
forkingoff.com. 
Follow us on Instagram, TikTok, 

780
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,960
Blue Sky, Mastodon, LinkedIn, or
wherever you get your podcasts. 

781
00:44:15,910 --> 00:44:18,190
Thanks so much for joining us 
this season. 

782
00:44:18,630 --> 00:44:21,470
We hope you'll join. 
Us next time, and now. 

783
00:44:21,550 --> 00:44:26,880
A word from our sponsors. 
This podcast was fueled by wine 

784
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,520
and cheese. 
This podcast. 

785
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,360
Was brought to you by Uncle 
Sam's tears. 

786
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:39,320
This podcast was brought to you 
by hate and vitriol. 

787
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,400
Vitriol. 
It's what fuels us all. 

788
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,040
This podcast was brought to you 
by hate and vitriol. 

789
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:50,360
Vitriol. 
It's what plants want. 

790
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:04,280
This podcast was brought to you 
by Brondo Brondo. 

791
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,600
It's what plants want. 
This podcast. 

792
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,680
Was brought to you by a mother's
disapproval. 

793
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,800
This podcast was brought to you 
because my therapist said I 

794
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,080
needed an outlet for my 
feelings. 

795
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:27,160
This podcast was brought to you 
by The letter F and the letter 

796
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,000
U. 
This podcast was brought to you 

797
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:36,240
by my anxiety because I can't 
afford to pay for therapy 

798
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:41,480
anymore. 
This podcast was funded by our 

799
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:45,600
deferred resignation. 
This podcast was brought to you 

800
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,280
by my child's college fund. 
He'll figure it. 

801
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:58,960
Out. 
I'm glad he's smart. 

802
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:05,560
Are you broken? 
Did we break you? 

803
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,600
No, I was. 
Just thinking this podcast. 

804
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,360
Was brought to you because it's 
cheaper than therapy. 

805
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:20,840
Are we done? 
All right, I'm done. 

806
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:23,040
Thanks for forking. 
Off.