1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:19,790 Stories from Super Touring. Hello and welcome to this week's 2 00:00:19,790 --> 00:00:21,910 episode of Stories from Super Touring. 3 00:00:22,350 --> 00:00:25,470 I'm your host Levi Riley and this week we're rewinding to a 4 00:00:25,470 --> 00:00:27,990 landmark moment in British Touring Car Championship 5 00:00:27,990 --> 00:00:30,990 history. The first ever live TV coverage 6 00:00:30,990 --> 00:00:32,990 of the championship at Brands Hatch. 7 00:00:32,990 --> 00:00:38,680 In 1997 Super Touring was at its peak and for the first time fans 8 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,720 across the country could experience all the drama, action 9 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,880 and intensity of the BTCC live as it happened. 10 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,880 From packed grandstands to high stakes racing on the iconic 11 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,960 indie circuit, this was a game changing moment for the 12 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,320 championship. In this episode we'll read if 13 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,840 the build up, the behind the scenes stories and of course the 14 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,280 on track battles that made that day so unforgettable. 15 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,680 Expect insights from those who were there, drivers, teams and 16 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:11,320 broadcasters as we dive into the story of how live BTCC coverage 17 00:01:11,320 --> 00:01:15,040 became a reality. To help us read of that moment, 18 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,480 we're joined by podcast regular motorsport broadcaster Greg 19 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,200 Haynes. Greg knows all about the power 20 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,440 of live TV and motorsport and today we'll be talking about 21 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,200 what made that first broadcast so special, the impact it had on 22 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,520 the BTCC and of course the unforgettable on Track action 23 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,640 that day. Greg, how are you this evening? 24 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,640 I'm fine, thanks Ava. I was just laughing at the fact 25 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:39,880 you said Greg knows all about the power of live TVI wouldn't 26 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:44,360 go that far, but dish yourself Greg. 27 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,680 More than the rest of us, mate. No. 28 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,120 One, no one stuck up for me then said no, you do Greg. 29 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,720 So thanks for that. No, but I'm excited about this 30 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,960 one. It's a big one. 31 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,280 This isn't it? Because I think more than the 32 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,560 actual race weekend itself, which let's be honest, was 33 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,600 slightly processional, this is very important for the British 34 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,760 Touring Car Championships, television prospects and the way 35 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,640 things were going forward. And we'll stick with you, Greg, 36 00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:15,560 for our usual opening question and what first comes to mind 37 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,640 outside of, as you mentioned, the processional racing that 38 00:02:19,640 --> 00:02:22,080 we'll get onto. What first comes to your mind 39 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,760 when you think about this first live TV meeting for the BTCC? 40 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,640 No doubt about it at all. It's the there's two things. 41 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:32,600 It's the reader menu collision towards the end of race 2, but 42 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,680 just prior to that, it's the Murray ISM. 43 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,280 Of course, that was Anthony Nissan, which is probably the 44 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,080 second best Murray ISM after only the car upside down is a 45 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,120 Toyota in 1993. So that was a classic Anthony 46 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,160 Nissan, Anthony Nissan, Steady chap, steady Walker. 47 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:51,760 So that's definitely the highlight for me. 48 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:53,720 And Charlie Cox laughing in the background. 49 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,160 Adam coming to you next. What jumps into your mind when 50 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,080 you think about this race? I, I just think when you, when 51 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,080 you say the, The Word Alive, you naturally think that something 52 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,040 could potentially happen that hasn't already happened that we 53 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,280 already see within the BTCC. So you naturally think that, but 54 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,920 in reality it was just, it was a little bit processional in terms 55 00:03:15,920 --> 00:03:19,560 of the racing and and there than the the amount of action you 56 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,040 normally see. But there's still, there's still 57 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,560 things going on, like you said with Anthony Reed and and menu. 58 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:30,160 But I think the first 3 rows was 2 Renaults, 2 unders, 2 Nissans. 59 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,640 It was like, it's almost like you could just see the 60 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:35,600 performance of the manufacturers all in those first 3 rows in 61 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,360 terms of who was who was on top there. 62 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:40,800 Yeah. And and finally coming to you, 63 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,320 Alex, what were your memories of this race meeting that? 64 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,760 Means the guy is crazy, he should think a bit more. 65 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:50,760 Been practising that one for a while that you'll. 66 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:56,160 Have, yes, yeah. And not only that, it's really 67 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,600 just stood in the background looking like a naughty 68 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,800 schoolboy. And Alan not realising that he 69 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:08,320 said he's saying it, that really stood right behind him. 70 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,120 And Steve Riley going, well, Anthony Reed's just coming 71 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,440 behind you, Alan. And Alan suddenly looks goes 72 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,160 white and then just walks off. Yeah. 73 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,640 It just walks off embarrassed. But yeah, it's to go is crazy. 74 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:25,040 You should think a bit more. So yeah, but he wasn't the only 75 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:29,920 one to call Anthony Reed something a bit a bit naughty. 76 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,160 So sure, we get on to that later. 77 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,600 But yeah, that's my overriding memory of of this meeting. 78 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,240 Let's be fair. The on track action wasn't 79 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,120 great. It's typical, isn't it? 80 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,600 The one first time they go live and it wasn't the best, but 81 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:48,960 we'll get we'll get into it later. 82 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,760 As always, we've also asked our faithful listeners what they 83 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,640 thought of this race meeting and they've come up with some of the 84 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,040 following. Dennis Knight said it was dull 85 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,600 but the reeds menu coming together. 86 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:03,920 We've already touched on that theme. 87 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,200 The Honda dominance. Reed looking sheepish in the pit 88 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,320 lane interviews after menu slagged them off. 89 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,240 Rodan G Hill got in touch so it was a shame that it was a quiet 90 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,480 race. Introduced the BTCC to the 91 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,320 matters of the live audience, which I think probably got on to 92 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,800 more as well. Daryl Howar says it was the 93 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,000 first race he ever saw and he's been hooked ever since, which I 94 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,840 guess shows the power of of live TV there as well. 95 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,480 Daniel Bond got in touch so he remembers Menu and Reid coming 96 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,480 together behind Tarquini, which is a memory for others. 97 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,000 John Corley, Red Cheshire and Phil Downs also got in touch. 98 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,920 Say that and Ian Wells, we've already mentioned it with Greg 99 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,760 so far, but Ian Wells simply said Anthony Nissan. 100 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:56,040 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's that shows, isn't it, that 101 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,080 the on track offer was not great? 102 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,360 Great. Yeah, that's something we can 103 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,760 talk about a bit later as well, because that's not a 104 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,400 coincidence. I don't think that so many 105 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,400 people remember it being a little bit processional, 106 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,600 including us bearing in mind this first ever Life race 107 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,840 package and not the BHP highlights. 108 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:15,200 Yeah, we've dressed it up a bit. Well, maybe we'll come to that 109 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:16,040 in a minute. Yeah. 110 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,920 The credibility of the British Touring Car Championship as a 111 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,440 mainstream TV sport was about to face its biggest test yet as 112 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,320 these two races at Bransac would be screened live on BBC Sunday 113 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:35,680 Grandstand for the first time. Fronted by veteran presenter 114 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:40,000 Steve Ryder, the 238 lap races would be the centrepiece of the 115 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,560 afternoon's action, which was to be presented live from the Kent 116 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,840 racetrack. It was a big show of confidence 117 00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:50,760 in the BTCC and its rise in the public prominence at the BBC, 118 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,560 which was looking to replace their loss of Formula One 119 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,440 coverage to ITV ahead of the weekend. 120 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,800 Dave Gordon, editor of Grandstand, was upbeat. 121 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,560 This is one of the most exciting moves Grandstand has made for 122 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,160 years. He told Autosport. 123 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:09,200 The series has gone from strength to strength over the 124 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,240 past few years and is now getting the recognition it 125 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,640 deserves. Adam Big move for the 126 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,880 Championship to start broadcasting races live on Grand 127 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:23,400 Sandwich at the time was the premier live TV show for sports 128 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,680 at the time. Yeah, I think it's a huge move 129 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,560 and I I think it already happened, but I think this was 130 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,280 probably one of the really significant points for BTCC in 131 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,200 terms of where drivers would become household names. 132 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,280 Like you've just mentioned that one of the listeners has said 133 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,280 that that's the race that got him hooked. 134 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,200 But if that's the race that got him hooked, what we class as a 135 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,000 bit of a processional boring race in comparison to others, 136 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:50,920 then it just shows you that impact that he had. 137 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:55,960 And I think it was just great. I think Formula One lose or 138 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,920 losing the Formula One on BBC was probably a good thing in 139 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,600 reality because it's then opened the doors for BTCC. 140 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,320 And obviously Gow and Co would have obviously pounced on that 141 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,880 opportunity. But yeah, household names for 142 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:08,520 drivers. This was that whole, you know, 143 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,600 win on a Sunday, sell on a Monday. 144 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,840 And and, you know, I just think it was just a really big, 145 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,480 there's so much more that probably come from it than what 146 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,000 we naturally think was just the racing. 147 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,920 But I'd certainly think that this was a very much like drive 148 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,120 to survivors for Formula One through Netflix. 149 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,800 I think this was probably, you know that. 150 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,000 Version. Of that, the door opening, 151 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,159 you've got people that you know. I remember it as a kid when 152 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:35,080 Grandstand was on. I'll be around my grandparents 153 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,520 house and and like grandstand be on in the background. 154 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,360 They're all sorts touring cars around and I'm like, yes, 155 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,559 because I was into obviously racing at that point anyway, 156 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:47,040 because I was, I was karting. But Steve Ryder, all of a 157 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,840 sudden, just no matter what you you were doing or where you was 158 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,400 and you heard he, he had me in front of the TV. 159 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:57,560 And I just think you, you see that with a lot of like that 160 00:08:57,560 --> 00:08:59,320 drive to survive. Now there's, there's, there's 161 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,520 women and kids that come up to me that, that talk about it and 162 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,360 about drives that are that they're into it and all the 163 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,400 people that you would not expect to be into it. 164 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,960 And I think that was probably very much the same when when 165 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,400 that happened, I think because grandstand was like lunchtime 166 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,640 Saturday, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. 167 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,120 And what was so great about Grandstand as well as you'd get 168 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,240 people watching. You wouldn't necessarily watch, 169 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:20,560 wouldn't you? That's the that's what I mean, 170 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,080 yeah. You've got that whole audience 171 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,800 like George survivors, all these people that are telling you 172 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,520 they're watching the Hooked on Formula One, that the last piece 173 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,760 but on this Earth that I'd ever think would be into it. 174 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,560 You know, there's so many people that are. 175 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:34,000 And I think this was the same then. 176 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:35,800 Yeah. One, we need to do hard art of 177 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,360 football and exactly toy cars coming on it's. 178 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:40,720 Just beyond the corner, wouldn't it? 179 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,560 You know, it wasn't like nowadays when you're on your 180 00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:45,560 devices and you watch what you want to watch, when you want to 181 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:47,240 watch it. It's on. 182 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,480 And I'm funnily enough getting hooked on a live race as well 183 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,800 because I started with the games. 184 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,200 But then I remember the first race I actually watched when I 185 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,280 was 10 was Brands Hatch 2000 live rounds. 186 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,760 Rounds one or two. So like that listener we heard 187 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,480 from before, I think the fact is, well, you know, it's 188 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,800 happening as you're watching. It does give you something 189 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,360 extra, doesn't it? Yeah, completely, completely. 190 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,600 And I think with all the other sports they show you think on 191 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,200 grandstand, yes, this might have been a bowling race from our 192 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,040 standards, but why more exciting than a lot of the other sports 193 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:20,280 highlights that they were showing at the time. 194 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,240 So all of a sudden these are all driving into each other. 195 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,840 Everyone's thinking this is ice, you know, that's something 196 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,040 they've never seen before. I think it was big that the 197 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,720 whole thing was from brands as well, the whole programme. 198 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,520 Yeah, you know, they were, they were live at brands all 199 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,600 afternoon. Yeah, they were showing other 200 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,000 sports. Yeah, we're going to go live now 201 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,880 and watch some of the highlights of Whatnot and horse racing, 202 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,640 whatever, but they were based brands. 203 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,600 Right. I think that's quite a big, you 204 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,960 know, tick in the box for the BTCC as well, you know, because 205 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:55,960 the whole environment, the atmosphere is, you know, is you 206 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,040 just soak it all up, don't you? You know, even silly things like 207 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,880 here in the the pit horn going, you know, stuff like that before 208 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,080 the race. It's, it's just, I love it. 209 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,880 I, I, yeah, it's, that's what I used to like about the live 210 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,320 rounds when when they were actually at the track all 211 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,160 afternoon. Yeah, you just get all that 212 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,880 build up, all the atmosphere and something like the reader menu, 213 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,040 you know, you think he's crazy, you should think a bit more. 214 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,080 That's exactly the sort of thing, yes, Steve Ryder would 215 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,600 have absolutely revelled in. They needed and wanted something 216 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,800 like that. So that was perfect actually. 217 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,360 Yeah. And obviously from commentators 218 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:32,320 point of view, Greg, it must make your job easier when those 219 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,320 moments happen because you've got something to talk about that 220 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,880 was never in your script or in your thoughts at any point where 221 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,440 all of a sudden you you can naturally talk about it because 222 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,640 it's something's just happened. Yeah, true. 223 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,120 And I remember reading an interview with Charlie Cox, I 224 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,520 think it was in one of the race programmes actually, from either 225 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,840 Donnington, the first or second, the first Donnington round or 226 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,680 the first Silverstone round in in 2000. 227 00:11:56,680 --> 00:11:58,800 I can't quite remember where the interview was, but I remember he 228 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,520 always said he preferred commentating live because when 229 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,200 you were doing the studio stuff, if you did cock something out 230 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:05,960 you might be tempted to go back and do it again. 231 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,520 Whereas live, you're live. So mistakes, everything, 232 00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:12,080 whatever you're thinking at the time, it's gone out, it's too 233 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,960 late, you can't do it again. So it adds that edge to the 234 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,720 broadcast as well. Knowing there's one shot here, 235 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,800 you can't repeat it. Prior to the meeting, Steve 236 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,680 Ryder wrote a column in Autosport where he said that it 237 00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:26,560 was the right time for the BTCC to go live. 238 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,720 He believed the notion of delayed highlights was on 239 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,400 borrowed time and that the package produced by BHP was a 240 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,560 misrepresentation of the narrative and pace of the actual 241 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:39,480 race, even if it was terrific television. 242 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,600 Alex also spoke with Steve about this at Brands Hatch last year 243 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,760 when Steve sat down to talk to the pod. 244 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,040 You know, I've, I've, I've worked a lot, of course, with 245 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:49,280 dear old Murray Walker. Who put? 246 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:54,800 The commentary on and we will get back to we had a, we had an 247 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,400 edit suite in in Goth Square in central London and we probably 248 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,520 have a, you know, meeting like this, especially if you're 249 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,560 around the Grand Prix circuit, probably 1314 cameras. 250 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:08,520 So we'd sit there on a Monday morning, knee deep in tapes and 251 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,880 trying to work out the best way to put it together. 252 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:16,240 We had a wonderful editing team. It would take them about 2 1/2 253 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,720 days to put the edit together and then Murray will come in on 254 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:24,760 a Wednesday afternoon and he would sit there and it would 255 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,240 take him probably a day and 1/2. Really. 256 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,800 To work out the commentary we had to put him up in the very 257 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:34,160 nice hotel in the West End and then around about Thursday 258 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,800 afternoon he'd be ready. We'd sit there and listen to 259 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,320 Murray's wonderful dub and everything. 260 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,960 But it was the interesting thing with Murray, he said in those 261 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:45,840 first three or four years, he said of course, you know, this 262 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,480 will never work live. You know, you put every incident 263 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,120 from, you know, all the races all sort of slam bang together 264 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,080 and it's wonderful entertainment in that respect. 265 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,760 But if you go live, people will realise that actually the 266 00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,640 British Steering Car Championship isn't quite like 267 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:00,960 that. And. 268 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,000 He, he, he was quite. Forthright about it in his book 269 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,720 and he was quite you know this will never work live and thank 270 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,840 goodness it has done largely because the technology has 271 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,160 involved yeah so much and the on board cameras are wonderful and 272 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:19,160 you've got the commitment from ITV but but no he was he was Oh 273 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,640 no it's. Alex, would you agree with 274 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,240 Steve's take on it there? I mean, I agree personally. 275 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:32,800 It was getting so big and and grandstand we're, you know, BBC, 276 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,000 we're looking for motorsport after losing F1. 277 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,600 And it just came along at the right time. 278 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,040 They already covered world rallying, but that hadn't quite 279 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,920 experienced the same sort of boom level as touring cars. 280 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,360 And yeah, it just seemed the right time. 281 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,640 It just seemed the right thing to do. 282 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,800 It was making superstars of these people. 283 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,440 You know, the game was coming out, the bigger names were 284 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,080 coming to the championship. It just seemed. 285 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,680 It just seemed the right time in the Championships growth to do 286 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:08,360 it and give it that bit of BBC shine. 287 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,800 Because I don't know about anyone else but I've always 288 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,920 thought nobody does sports quite like BBC. 289 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,760 They just they just seem to nail it. 290 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:24,160 You know, you look at F1 BBC compared to ITVII. 291 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,960 Always thought the the BBC coverage was was just 292 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,800 spectacular. And to be fair, they didn't go 293 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,440 in half hearted. And Steve Ryder wrote a column 294 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:39,000 just before and they said, and he said sorry, that the brand's 295 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,720 indie circuit, which was obviously where this live first 296 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,360 live race was going to be, could have been quite covered, quite 297 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,240 successfully covered with just a handful of cameras. 298 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,360 But the BBC don't just do things by halves. 299 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,120 The commitment they have means they're not short of anything. 300 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:00,000 And they had 10 trackside cameras, mixture of high and low 301 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,320 to convey both the speed and the shape of the race, 2 pit lane 302 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,240 cameras and also an airborne helicopter camera. 303 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:12,560 And so 13 cameras covering brands indie in 1997. 304 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,800 That's, that's quite a commitment from the BBC. 305 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,200 So they were putting a lot of effort into this and, and I 306 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,920 think it was totally deserved. The championship deserved it. 307 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:23,960 It was the right time to go live. 308 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,800 As Steve, a leader to in that chat with Alex, not everyone was 309 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,040 in agreement. Surprisingly, lead commentator 310 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,200 Murray Walker was very much against the Championship going 311 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,920 live In his autobiography. Unless I'm very much mistaken, 312 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,920 Walker said Steve Ryder had been pushing for live coverage of the 313 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,880 BTCC for some time and this was the only thing he and I ever 314 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,720 disagreed on. I thought he was wrong then, and 315 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,600 I still do. Of course, I know all the 316 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,280 arguments about the immediacy and prestige of live 317 00:16:55,280 --> 00:17:00,680 broadcasting, but I don't think the 1997 BTCC live coverage was 318 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,119 nearly as exciting and impactful as the recorded and edited 319 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,760 output. I was particularly disappointed 320 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,359 with the inability to access the in car footage, a feature that 321 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,640 was much loved in the edited packages. 322 00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:17,640 Greg Murray was very adamant, even after the fact, that the 323 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,040 live coverage is the wrong move for the championship at the 324 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,240 time. Some pretty strong words from 325 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:23,720 there on on how he felt, wasn't it? 326 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,960 Yeah, I, I don't think you can disagree with Murray when you 327 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,000 actually look at the quality of the in car cameras, if you 328 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,720 compare the BHP produced stuff. And just to let people know, for 329 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,520 those of you who don't know, BHP was Barry Hinchcliffe 330 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,560 Productions. They were based in Goth Square 331 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,720 in London and Murray would go in there on a Wednesday and they 332 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,520 would take all the tapes from the cars. 333 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,040 So each car had its individual camera with its own tapes in. 334 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,280 Each track camera had its individual tapes in it, which 335 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:51,800 the cameraman would change through the day. 336 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,120 They'd get all the tapes, so much of the amount of tapes, 337 00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:57,880 they'd have to back to London on a Sunday night, edit the whole 338 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,440 lot together for highlights package and Murray would go in 339 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,000 on the Wednesday, go through it all and then go back to a nice 340 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:05,400 hotel. As Steve Wright has always said, 341 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,880 they put him up in a nice hotel. And I know Alan Gow, the BTCC 342 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,480 series boss, would have to pay Murray three or four days to do 343 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,680 a half hour highlights edit, but he'd go through it frame by 344 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,880 frame and then come back in on the Thursday afternoon, I think 345 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,400 it was and voice it as though it was live. 346 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,560 And it was brilliant, wasn't it? And that's what made the BTCC so 347 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,600 big to get to the point where right now with Brands 97. 348 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,320 So that was the recorded highlights. 349 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,000 And I understand why Murray would say that because if you 350 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,400 watch the On Car cameras, particularly those early 351 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,480 broadcasts in 97, they were not as good. 352 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:37,640 They were they were near as good. 353 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,720 You get break up. There was an on car moment with 354 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,480 John Cleland at Knock Hill later that year which was live and 355 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,920 they tried to speak to John on under a safety car and they're 356 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,400 trying to do it with people on warm up laps and it didn't quite 357 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,880 work as they wanted it to. So I could understand exactly 358 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,000 why Murray would say that because traditionally Formula 359 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,120 One had been, and I don't think this, but people would say 360 00:18:58,120 --> 00:18:59,960 Formula One's the boring one when nothing happens. 361 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,280 Touring Cars is the crash bang wallet brigade. 362 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,000 There's always action and obviously they put it together 363 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,840 in a very clever way to make it look like there was even more 364 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,480 better races than there were. So Murray thought it's lost, 365 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,400 Touring Cars has lost its USP in a way, those special moments. 366 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,120 So I can see exactly what it means because, you know, the 367 00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:21,560 races are long, especially at Brands 97. 368 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,200 There was some action, but it wasn't as much action as 369 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,520 normally through the year. It was that we know 97 was one 370 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,960 of the very most dominated years anyway in the whole that period. 371 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,880 So I can see why Murray would say that because he wanted 372 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,920 instant action. But obviously another problem 373 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:39,880 was I had a lot more time to fill because as we said before, 374 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,160 they'd lost the F1 coverage to the beat. 375 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,040 Even the recorded highlights in 97 were more padded out. 376 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,520 Remember the Bin Cliff and Leslie collision at Silverstone 377 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,440 97? That was covered in a lot more 378 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,920 depth than it normally would be. They got all the posts incident 379 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,520 walking back to the driver and behind the barrier. 380 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:58,200 It would have been much punchy, wouldn't it? 381 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,080 In previous years, they had more time to fill. 382 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,480 So I can see what merry men there and I can understand why 383 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,280 he'd think that. And if you think about it, drive 384 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,040 to survive. Adam, you mentioned this before. 385 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:11,920 That's not live, is it? That's all put together, taking 386 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,360 all the best bits. So I still think there is a 387 00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:15,880 market for this in this day and age. 388 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,520 You can go watch when you won on one of these and then on a phone 389 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,640 that is for those of you who can't see me, you know, or a 390 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,360 tablet or whatever. People don't want to necessarily 391 00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:30,760 sit through a 90 minute F1 race or you know, so it depends. 392 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:31,880 It's something for everyone, isn't it? 393 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,280 I think it's important, even if you do have a live event, to 394 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,160 still have a good highlights package because a lot of people 395 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,880 don't have the time or don't want to spend the time going 396 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,920 through, you know, the whole thing when it's live. 397 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,480 Yeah, I'll watch a BTCC highlights package now. 398 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:51,280 One watch of race of no interest, just no interest in it 399 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,120 at all. It's it's the commitment of time 400 00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:54,760 as well, like it's. Yeah, that too, you know. 401 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,080 Yeah, the, the, the builder, you know, to get there and then 402 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,040 there's the grid and all that. And I love all that. 403 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,760 If you've got the time to watch it and Greg knows this from the, 404 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,280 from the Super bikes that I love it if I've got time to sit there 405 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:07,680 and do it. But obviously with three kids, 406 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,800 it's rare that you do it. So now I'm I'm into like 407 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,320 watching some highlights now, which is rammed in a real short 408 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,360 programme. So you could then I want it to 409 00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:17,480 be longer because I want to see more of it. 410 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:18,880 But like, you know, it's one of them. 411 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,080 If you've got time to watch the live ones, you can. 412 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,240 But like you said that I think there's definitely a benefit 413 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:24,480 without like a highlight package. 414 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:25,680 We can just take all the best bits. 415 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:31,760 Yeah, not to not to blasphemy against Murray, but I bet he 416 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,520 liked, I bet he liked the highlights package. 417 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:38,760 Staying in a hotel for three nights in a luxury, I think, I 418 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,040 think I'd do that as well. No, in fact you were saying 419 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,160 about how they padded out the even the highlight rounds 420 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:50,520 because F1 had gone to ITV, the grandstand had put the BTCC from 421 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,720 30 minutes highlight packages up to an hour. 422 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,840 And Murray said in his book as well, that was another reason 423 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,480 why he left the championship at the end of 97 and said, look, 424 00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:05,960 I'd love to stay but I can't commit to to doing as much as 425 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,880 you're wanting. And he felt even the hour 426 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,680 packages were probably pushing it a little bit. 427 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:17,360 But yeah, obviously they padded that out with, you know, post 428 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:21,760 race stuff, pre race stuff that Charlie and what he did there 429 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,680 because they were at the races and of course Murray wasn't 430 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,800 that. He was probably at Thruxton 431 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,200 every year or maybe somewhere else, but that was it. 432 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:31,760 He very apart from the live ones. 433 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,200 Obviously he very rarely actually attended the most 434 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,280 meetings because of his other commitments. 435 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,800 Yeah, and I mean that's obviously another reason why 436 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,400 Charlie Cox became so popular as well because like you say Alex, 437 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,200 he was going to the races to do these pre race features, the 438 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,800 interviews. I think yeah, we should shout 439 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,920 out to to Steve Ryder though, because you compared before the 440 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,160 BBC F1 coverage and ITV. But let's forget, let's not 441 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,720 forget the BBC F1 coverage pre ITV was not the same. 442 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,040 ITV took it on to another level altogether and Steve was very 443 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:08,080 much involved in the consortium that put together the ITV F1 444 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:09,640 coverage, even though he didn't present it. 445 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,000 That was Chrysalis and Meridian and there was all the people 446 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,520 involved there, including Martin Brundle when they used to have 447 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,240 meetings in in pubs all across 1996. 448 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,400 And in his words, to my shock and horror, we won the bid. 449 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,720 And then Steve have dilemma at the end of 96 because was he 450 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,120 going to leave the BBC after all those years to go and present F1 451 00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,360 for ITV? Of course he did and that's why 452 00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:32,440 Jim Rosenthal was brought in and did a great job. 453 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,560 I like Jim. Yeah. 454 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,520 And Steve, obviously. Stayed with the B, but it's, 455 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,800 yeah, a lot. I think you hit the hit the nail 456 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,560 on the head, Adam. You know, if you've got kids, a 457 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,640 wife, a life, jobs, can you really dedicate all day Friday 458 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,600 or Thursday as well now with warm up shows and all the rest 459 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,640 of it Friday, Saturday, Sunday, notebooks and all the rest of it 460 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,240 at the end of the weekend some. People can some. 461 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,080 People can't and I know I wouldn't be able to. 462 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,120 In other news, there was talk of another independent entry 463 00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:04,280 joining the grid. Former F Free racer Wayne 464 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,000 Earnshaw was rumoured to be trying to lease the Yap 465 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,640 Motorsport Honda Accord in the Total Cup for the remainder of 466 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,040 the season. Alex It never happened, but it 467 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,120 could have been an interesting addition to the grid. 468 00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:18,400 Yeah, it's a bit of a. Strange 1 Wayne and Shaw was a 469 00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:22,720 sometime F3. Sort of middle. 470 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,840 Of the road race from the 80s. If I would try and describe it, 471 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,560 it probably would be a bit like Russell Spence in 99, who made a 472 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,960 racing comeback in a in an independent car. 473 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:40,320 That Yap Honda hadn't been raced since the end of 96 in the TT 474 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:47,440 Donnington, where it was raced, raced by former Peugeot crash 475 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:57,800 test dummy Eugene O'Brien. And and yeah, so it never 476 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,360 happened, but there was also another little nugget of 477 00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:02,120 information. Do you know who else was 478 00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:06,480 sniffing around that car? Matt Neil and Steve Neil. 479 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:08,240 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 480 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,280 Because they wanted to dump that Mondeo. 481 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:14,880 And at first they were looking at that Honda. 482 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,200 And eventually I went for the the Nissan. 483 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,520 But, yeah, so it could have all been very different. 484 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,640 We could have seen in a Honda Accord and he might not have 485 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,960 ever won that first. Yeah, isn't it funny how you can 486 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,120 sort of go down, rewrite history in certain ways, but yeah, it 487 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:36,680 never happened. But Wayne and Shaw? 488 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:40,760 You know not to. Be unkind. 489 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,960 He probably wouldn't have done that much, but it would have 490 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,800 been another car on the width that that total cup year or 491 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:51,840 total sorry, that total cup year was really one of the strongest 492 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,880 actually, because you had Rob Gravity in it. 493 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,320 Jamie Wall was decent in it. You had Colin Galley in the BMW. 494 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,800 You had Matt Lee Brooks was the reigning champion. 495 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,280 It was a really strong year for that, that category. 496 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,720 Probably the, dare I say, the strongest. 497 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,720 Not sure, but yeah. So it would have been an 498 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,360 interesting time, but I'm not sure Wayne and Shaw would have 499 00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:20,680 done much several high. Profile celebrities were lined 500 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:25,240 up to attend the first ever live BTCC race broadcast, adding 501 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,320 extra excitement to the event. Football stars David Jinila and 502 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,040 Trevor Sinclair are attending with Renault and Peugeot 503 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,360 respectively, whilst Duran Duran Simon Le Bond was also going to 504 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:40,080 be attending with Honda. Got a slightly different 505 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,280 question than the usual here? Who would have been your 90s 506 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,880 celebrity that you'd have invited to that race at Brands 507 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,800 in 97? Whose question? 508 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,720 Was this, is this an Alex Clark question? 509 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,520 It sounds it is, yeah. Definitely. 510 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,480 It's definitely Alex's. I know who mine is, but I'm 511 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,640 going to let you all answer. Oh, tough one, I. 512 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,040 Mean I could easily go in there with Mansell. 513 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,280 How good has Mansell have been just strutting his stuff down 514 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,760 there, down there there. But you know, but it's looking. 515 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,640 I just kind of try and catch your mind about that far only. 516 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,200 And it was not big, but from like a from a music point of 517 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,080 view. What about the Gallagher 518 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,200 brothers strutting the stuff? Oh yeah. 519 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,640 Down there. Down the down the grid there, 520 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,680 you can just imagine, can't you just imagine Liam, yeah, like 521 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,000 alive swearing just like when he goes up to the, you know, to get 522 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,640 his, his awards of the Brits and stuff. 523 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,160 But they're like, no, not again, He's swearing again. 524 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,720 So yeah, I think it'll be the last person on the list. 525 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,760 I don't think Gow would have wanted him on there, but I think 526 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,280 that's a tough one there's. Yeah, I think that'd have been a 527 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,120 good one from ATV perspective, but it's whether it'd done the 528 00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:42,120 BTCC any favours or not be another thing. 529 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,320 For me, there's no. Doubt whatsoever who this needs 530 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,400 to be because this particular person had connections with 531 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,600 racing, had done a bit of racing himself, was even involved with 532 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,480 a potential linker with the BTCC if you remember earlier in the 533 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,160 90's. The I feel like this is a nice 534 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,400 question. Mr 90s TV celebrity himself, the 535 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,120 one and only Noel Edmonds is here. 536 00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:05,800 Oh, yes, yes. Because I think it would have. 537 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,840 All just gone together. In fact, around that same sort 538 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,640 of time, he was trying to put a bid together to race a car at 539 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,960 Lamont, if you remember, and actually did with the panels, if 540 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,520 I'm not mistaken, and I think that was 97 as well. 541 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,560 Actually, I think it was just imagine Mr. Lobby, Mr They 542 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:20,880 should have got Mr Lobby on the grid. 543 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:21,840 Imagine a car. He was. 544 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:22,480 He was. He was. 545 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,680 In a Peugeot. So yeah, I think it. 546 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,920 Would have been absolutely brilliant to have Edmunds there. 547 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,280 Mr Blobby came up at the back of the interview. 548 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,160 Brilliant. Brilliant. 549 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,800 When that though he'd like he'd have ended up like knocking a 550 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,920 mirror off a car or something. Always like Mayhem with 551 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,120 mechanics like Quick. Amazing. 552 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,160 For a podcast based on Super Touring races, it's amazing how 553 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,800 many times Noel Edmonds and Mr Blobby keep cropping up, isn't 554 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:57,520 it Levi and Matt, have you got any potential celebrity guests? 555 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,880 I can't wait to hear this. Can't beat Mr. Blobby, they can. 556 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,080 No, I was actually going to say one that Adam mentioned. 557 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,280 I was, I was actually going to say Nigel, because I'd love to 558 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,000 have asked him in 97 if he had any interest in racing in the 559 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,840 championships. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 560 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,160 Because with a with an empty wallet in my pocket, I don't 561 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,440 think he'd have been that interested. 562 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,280 For me, I don't know. I mean, I'd probably pick a 563 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,040 footballer just to be every camp there's an hour. 564 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,960 I thought it'd be a good. That'd be good. 565 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,040 Ali. McCoy. 566 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,400 'S Gaza that that would. Have been Jesus. 567 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,720 Christ, Gaza thing. Outrageous Gaza. 568 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,880 And the Gallagher brothers in the hospitality swing, I 569 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,080 suppose. Other ones as well. 570 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,840 There's obvious connections because we had Williams there 571 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,520 and because we had TWR there, you know, to get Damon Hillen 572 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,720 would have been good with Volvo. Yeah, yeah. 573 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,040 And obviously. Villeneuve and Frenson, although 574 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,200 I doubt they would have wanted to, you know, spend their 575 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,320 weekend. What they might have done, who 576 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,120 knows? But maybe Damon Hill would have 577 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:03,440 been good. Damon would have been good. 578 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,120 Yeah, Damon had, obviously, and was. 579 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,440 Racing for TWR at the time. Pedro. 580 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,440 You guys probably. Oh, Damon, not so much. 581 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:13,440 Pedro, I don't think. No. 582 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,280 Didn't spring to mind, Levi. Yeah, Damon would have. 583 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:17,640 Been really good, actually. That would have been. 584 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,600 Yeah. That would have been a nice. 585 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,600 I can't imagine many of the celebrities were that excite. 586 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,000 Although, in fairness, David Ginola did. 587 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,360 He was a big fan, wasn't he? He also tested a Laguna at the 588 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:29,160 end of 96. Really. 589 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:29,800 Really. Yeah. 590 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:30,920 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 591 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:36,000 So yeah, David Ginola was raced or driven a super tour. 592 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,760 Let's think about it as well, Damon. 593 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,200 Hill did race in the BTCC didn't he did in 1990. 594 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:47,400 Yeah, in 90 as well, he did the, he did the Donnington, you know, 595 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:48,800 at least to do those double headers. 596 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,840 Yeah. So yeah, yeah, yeah. 597 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,680 But yeah, Damon would have been cool. 598 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,600 But I'm still going with Noel Edmonds. 599 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,440 Yeah, Noel would have been. Cool as well. 600 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,800 I'll go in now if. He brought along Mr Blobber. 601 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,800 Yeah, yeah. I can go with that too. 602 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,240 Yeah, I'm. Just yeah, Who else was? 603 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,320 Sort of half of them. Now you can't really mention 604 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,680 anymore, can you? The spice. 605 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,640 Girls were big at that point. I've wrote the Spice Girls down, 606 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:15,480 actually. The sport. 607 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,960 I thought I was a mad fan myself but love Chris Evans. 608 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:20,920 Chris. Chris was huge at that point. 609 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,280 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, Tear fired and he 610 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,880 and well. I'll be surprised if he wasn't 611 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,320 there already, but Tiffany Dell would have been a good one if he 612 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,520 wasn't already there. Any of the Top Gear presented, 613 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,640 actually, Yes, yeah. Yeah. 614 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,000 Meanwhile, back on track, Honda's Gabrielli Tarquini had 615 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,200 been testing in three different countries prior to the Brandsach 616 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,680 meeting. He drove for three days at 617 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,080 Manicor with Prodrive before flying back to Brandsach to 618 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,360 testing the official Toke test. He then headed to Zandvoort to 619 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,080 test with the VZM Belgian Honda Team Adam. 620 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,320 Quite a testing programme for Gabrielli though. 621 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,920 Yeah, awesome. I think from a driver's 622 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,880 perspective, that's like an absolute ideal scenario just to 623 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,960 have a full time contract with one team doing plenty of 624 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,480 testing. But to go and do that three 625 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,760 times and potentially be getting 3 paychecks, that's like even 626 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,200 better, isn't it? But yeah, I never had the budget 627 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,680 to to go testing. I was literally scraping the 628 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,480 budget together to go from one race to another. 629 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,360 So I was never fortunate enough to go and do a lot of testing. 630 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,840 So I was missed out in whatever category I did really, even when 631 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,240 I went into GT racing. So great position. 632 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,680 What a life, you know, being paid to fly around, you know, 633 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,160 driving cars and testing various bits and pieces and, you know, 634 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,320 endless amounts of tyres and budgets. 635 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,040 Not really an issue. And yeah, absolute ideal from a 636 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,960 driver perspective. Yeah, good, busy, busy time. 637 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,240 But you know, if he, if he had the cheek to say that he was 638 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,920 tired at any point, you'd, you'd have to have a word, wouldn't 639 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,240 you? Because what a what a shock. 640 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:54,120 Tired. What do you mean? 641 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,200 Tired. Yeah, it's it's mad to think of 642 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,040 the programmes they had back then, isn't it madness? 643 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:05,040 Madness, you know, and the the, the money that manufacturers are 644 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,600 spending, you know, obviously, you know, we, we, we know how 645 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,280 that that turned out in terms of manufacturer support. 646 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,680 You know, this era which is constantly talking about this 647 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,560 part was what it was all about. The manufacturers were heavily. 648 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,320 It's never been the same since and it will never be repeated. 649 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,280 So. But the budgets were were 650 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,760 astronomical. And you know, he just, he was 651 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,680 mad, really. But yeah, what a great time. 652 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:28,080 Yeah. And as Tim. 653 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,200 Harvey and Anthony Reed have said a few times over the years 654 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,560 this was a point in history when there were more professional 655 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:39,480 paid drivers on the BTCC grid and National Touring Car 656 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,000 Championship essentially, although he had so much 657 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,920 international flavour than yeah, Formula One, which is mad to 658 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,520 think about it, isn't it now? Yeah, it's just mad and the. 659 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,920 Wages like, you know, you couldn't, I mean, I don't know 660 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,840 what Tim would have got paid for being with Peugeot, but yeah, it 661 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,680 wasn't the ideal scenario. But still the salary would like 662 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,840 you can't like it's it's difficult. 663 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,440 I suppose it's similar to like footballers really. 664 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,880 If you offered a deal to go with a particular team, it might not 665 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,159 be your ideal choice, but the salary is good. 666 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,000 Like, and this is, yeah, it's it's life changing decisions 667 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,360 that you're making for the benefit of yourself and your 668 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,440 family going forward. Where, you know, if they didn't 669 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,320 do this, then they might have to go and get a proper job, which 670 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,520 no one, no one would have wanted to have done. 671 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,600 Go and get a nine to five. But you know, and that's, you 672 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,280 know, it's easy for us on the outside. 673 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:29,760 Oh, why would you get there? Why would you get there? 674 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,239 But might have been the only deal at the time. 675 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,080 You know, we don't know. But even if you did add two or 676 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,360 three deals on the table, you know, could have been the 677 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,400 slowest car on their grid. But if they're paying the best, 678 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,880 what'd you do? Reed? 679 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,400 Reed. He said that to us, didn't he, 680 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,920 when he was talking about his Ford deal? 681 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,480 Yeah, he said. Everyone said to him. 682 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,600 What are you leaving that and this sounds the quickest car on 683 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,679 the grid blah blah blah blah. He's I'll never Yeah, because. 684 00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:55,800 I'll never have to work another day. 685 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,400 I'm alive. He said that Ford contract 686 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,320 changed my life, Yeah. It did it. 687 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,600 Paid off everything. It meant that he can now live a 688 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,760 fair, you know, a fairly comfortable life. 689 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,960 And, you know, he said that. He said, I don't, you know, I 690 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,160 don't regret a second of it. Yes, I could have won a title or 691 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,640 two, but would that change my life? 692 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,800 No. Yeah. 693 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,080 It's an. Interesting many things. 694 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,520 It is regarding, we probably haven't spoken enough about it 695 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,440 really in terms of that aspect of it, in terms of a driver's 696 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,120 life and the, the financial benefits of it and the back 697 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:35,400 then. Because like I said, it's never 698 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,400 going to be repeated. And, you know, if you could pay 699 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,760 your mortgage off and have a few quid in the bank, then like 700 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,160 that's like box ticking exercise, isn't it? 701 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,160 That's not what we all want to do. 702 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,360 None of us want a mortgage. And, you know, one contract can, 703 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,960 can sort that right out. And that's pretty much like you 704 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,120 said. How about Anthony Reed? 705 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:55,080 You know, it's, it changed his life like he did with many 706 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:56,040 others. Yeah. 707 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:57,760 Absolutely. And JP. 708 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,080 Jason Plato said before when he used to go testing with Williams 709 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,120 Renault, they would just bring truckloads of tyres and into the 710 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,040 next day Michelin turns up with another load of tyres that have 711 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,040 been developed overnight back in France. 712 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,560 It's unbelievable when you think about it, isn't it? 713 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,760 This was basically a world championship taking place with 714 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,240 international drivers, cars and teams all on British circuits. 715 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,960 Such a special time. Yeah. 716 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:23,320 And that's. The thing like the salaries they 717 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,160 were taking, they probably thought, oh this is madness, 718 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,720 what they're paying, but in reality they've spent more on 719 00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:31,600 tyres that season than what they're paying the driver. 720 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,280 They've spent more on hospitality, entertaining 721 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,000 guests, customers, dealer franchises than they have on the 722 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,920 drivers. So it's, it's a chunk of the the 723 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:42,560 budget. But in reality they spent a 724 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,080 whole lot more on a lot of other things. 725 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,160 And the drivers is quite, quite a minimal thing really. 726 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,160 Plus you've got all the staff wages for the people that are 727 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,760 running the team in the mechanics, the engineers, the 728 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,520 full time, you know, full time guys. 729 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,920 And you know, the money was absurd really that was involved. 730 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,080 But you could only do that with manufacture money. 731 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,080 You have to say. That's precisely why they had to 732 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,840 go live, you know, it was, yeah. Yeah, yeah. 733 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,880 Need exposure? It wouldn't be just. 734 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,160 Tarquini that would be testing abroad with James Thompson 735 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,400 heading to Hockenheim to tested the German Honda Team Linda 736 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,400 alongside their driver Alfred Hager. 737 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,760 Greg Honda put a lot of effort in at the moment to overhauling 738 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,640 a run a team that had dominated the start of the 97 season. 739 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:28,760 Yeah. Because at this point, of 740 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,760 course, let's just recap what had happened. 741 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,440 We'd had Donnington and we'd had Silverstone and we'd had 742 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,000 Thruxton and Menu had run away with pretty much everything. 743 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,120 Even though Plato had a few pole positions, didn't he? 744 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,000 On his debut, which he was and still is very proud of, quite 745 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,040 rightly. But Menu had been the bridesmaid 746 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,480 for the previous three years, 94.5 and six. 747 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,160 He was the runner up to Tarquini, Cleland and Feeler. 748 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,240 And it was his turn, wasn't it? Let's be honest, he deserved it. 749 00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:54,920 And Williams were putting in huge investment as we just said, 750 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:57,520 but Menu had won. He'd done the double at 751 00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,640 Donnington, the double at Silverstone and then we'd have 752 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:00,920 Thruxton. There was a bit of hope for 753 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,200 everybody else because it was a rain affected race events. 754 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,240 Obviously we had didn't we recently, Barry Notley on the 755 00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:08,680 podcast last series I think it was, wasn't it? 756 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,480 Or the one before time flies. And we had rain there and we'd 757 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,880 had Beela winning with his four wheel drive in Race 1 and 758 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,720 Tarquini in a Honda won Race 2. So they were obviously very 759 00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:21,880 optimistic coming into Brands Hatch and throwing everything at 760 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:22,760 it. I'm sure they're all a bit 761 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,600 dejected when menu pretty much ran away again with race one. 762 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,720 But as we'll come to in a minute, Honda came good again in 763 00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:31,080 Race 2, didn't they? And critically, for the first 764 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,840 time that season, for race 2 qualifying, there wasn't a 765 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,200 single Renault Laguna on the front row of the grid. 766 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,000 And it just went to show how important qualifying was. 767 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,080 And it also underlined again how important, how difficult it was 768 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,080 to overtake on the Brands Hatch indie circuit. 769 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,040 But yeah, isn't it incredible to think these British touring car 770 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,200 drivers were going off to places like Manicor and Hockenheim to 771 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,400 do Grand Prix? Circuits Grand Prix. 772 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,640 Circuits with these international teams, again, it 773 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,840 just underlined, you know, everything was world 774 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,360 championship status about the BTCC, apart from its name. 775 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,720 It was to every, you know, to all intents and purposes, this 776 00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:09,960 was a world championship. Yeah. 777 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,560 Rounding up the. Paddock News before the event 778 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,520 John Binkliff was given a warning by his Alder UK bosses 779 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,960 in the wake of the collision at the previous meeting at Froxton, 780 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,960 where he was judged to have punted team mate Frank Beeler 781 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,200 into the barriers which led to the German missing the Brown 782 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,920 Satch Toca test due to the damage to the A four and the 783 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,880 damage to Beeler's ribs. We've had some. 784 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,840 Serious discussions of John about it and he now understands 785 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,680 our point of view. We are now expecting less 786 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,600 problems from John ALDI, boss John Wickham told Autosport. 787 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,920 Guys, we. Discussed this in our Franks in 788 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,040 1997 episode of Barry Nutley, which is quite a harsh treatment 789 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,680 from ALDI in the wake of the collision are. 790 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,280 We. Still, are we still convinced it 791 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,760 was his fault? Yeah, because you're. 792 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,120 You're adamant. You. 793 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:02,720 You. You were pretty sure it wasn't. 794 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:04,200 Yeah. I'm not. 795 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:06,720 Yeah, I'm not fully, like we said before on a previous 796 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,720 episode that I'm not. It was, it was unlucky. 797 00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:12,040 He was, it was an unlucky situation, but I felt like he 798 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,480 was like. Not wrong place, wrong. 799 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:16,560 Time. I think Beaver was in the wrong 800 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,040 place, wrong time. But I thought, yeah, I'm not 801 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,080 fully. I'm not now I'm not. 802 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,280 I think it was a bit harsh treatment if he said those 803 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,040 words, but I don't think he sort of deserved it. 804 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,640 But I think he was just letting him know that you are clearly a 805 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,840 number 2 and you need to behave. Yeah, just about. 806 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,600 To say that, yeah, I think you know. 807 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,800 Frank was clearly. The Schumacher of Audi if you 808 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,680 get. No matter what. 809 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:43,440 We no matter what he did, we were to protect Frank and think 810 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,080 Cliff would always be the like you say, the second driver. 811 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,640 Yeah, and I understand. That completely understand it 812 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,280 like you know your place you're in as a number 2 and and you 813 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:52,360 take it. Wouldn't you have had you're 814 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,640 offering you a job when you've come out of a, you know, fiestas 815 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,240 or whatever he was in? What was he in before? 816 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,840 Did he come out of fiestas into trying to eat? 817 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,600 So but like, you know, absolutely you've you've you've 818 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,440 hit the jackpot. But no, I still to this day, I 819 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,880 don't think it was Binkley's fault. 820 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:11,800 I just think it was a racing incident. 821 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,240 That throat met in the middle didn't they? 822 00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:15,840 It was between Cobb and Seagrove. 823 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,160 Binkliffs out a bit wide. Came back across from what I 824 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,520 remember and just clipped the front of Frank's card and then 825 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,680 it sent him off. It was a big impact. 826 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,520 Actually the the punishment there was crime. 827 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,160 Really, in terms of the incident, it's a big impact. 828 00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:29,240 Purely because the nature of the barrier and the way. 829 00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:31,400 The way, yeah. But yeah, it was just. 830 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,760 It was a very sudden stop, wasn't it? 831 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:38,320 And it sort of pirouetted 180° like a turntable, really like a 832 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,200 talking top. But I don't. 833 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,760 I mean, you could have stopped beater in the car for the Browns 834 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,160 test I guess, and taken Binkliff out. 835 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,120 But I guess if he's in pain with his ribs it wasn't. 836 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,040 That's obviously why they didn't, but it must have put a 837 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,080 lot of pressure on Bincliff as well because we've seen drivers 838 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,360 before, haven't we, trying to be too careful and causing even 839 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,880 more incidents as a result. But clearly within Audi, as 840 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,080 we've already said, the politics there, the German, he was the 841 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,680 reigning champion, let's not forget, and he was the stronger 842 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,160 of the two drivers. So he wasn't fortunate. 843 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,000 I mean, you don't want team mates climbing anyway, do you? 844 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,280 Let's be honest, they obviously argued Bincliff should have 845 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,840 known he was there and not come back in front of him. 846 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,480 Did Beeler? Have a serious chat with Andy. 847 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:22,880 When when Croft when when he punted Binkliff off at Croft. 848 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,520 I was just about cynical. I think that probably didn't 849 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:27,560 happen, did it? No. 850 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,640 And very similar incidents, first lap and the the latest of 851 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,200 touches. The only difference is, as Adam 852 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:39,560 said, it was a it was an Armco barrier at Thruxton where it was 853 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,040 a big field at Croft. Yeah. 854 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,560 I don't. Know maybe that's, that's just 855 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:49,120 me being I felt a bit after after reading that I really felt 856 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,520 sorry for Bincliffe because it's it's really making a mountain 857 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,240 out of a molehill, if you ask me, but but also publicly. 858 00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:56,840 Saying those words as yeah, yeah. 859 00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,880 Exactly. Yeah, which that'd be normally. 860 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,760 An internal thing. So I'm surprised that was that 861 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,720 was like that, but. Yeah, I suppose I. 862 00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:09,600 Suppose in Audi's defence at least, Bincliffe was, let's say, 863 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,960 used the word allowed a win. He led Bila home in a 12, then 864 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,320 he later in this year and not kill Frank Muck. 865 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:17,880 Bila, wasn't it a not kill that year? 866 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,480 They had it on the window of the car, so I suppose they could 867 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,680 have instructed him to move out of the way if they really wanted 868 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:23,880 to. So I suppose they valued 869 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,160 Bincliffe. But it probably shows there was 870 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,000 quite a lot of tension behind the scenes as well because 871 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,160 they've had the weight penalty, hadn't they earlier in 97? 872 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,240 The pressure was on, Beta could probably feel the title defence 873 00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:37,480 slipping away and there was quite a lot of there. 874 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,760 Wasn't in the team, yeah. You know, with the white. 875 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,400 And everything can slowing them down, you see. 876 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,760 You can imagine the tensions that they have because they've 877 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,520 gone for me so dominant to now. Well, actually you're going to 878 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,280 get paid in life. So you can imagine what it was 879 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,200 like behind the scenes because it was so public, wasn't it? 880 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,960 And I remember. To use Charlie Cox's words from 881 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,360 the 99 season review, I believe is that history has not been 882 00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,720 kind to the Champions. And if you look, we didn't get a 883 00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:00,960 single repeat champion all through the 90s. 884 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,920 Didn't often because rule changes were put in place or 885 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,680 penalties or pit stops or something was brought in to 886 00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:09,640 penalise whoever had got the jump on the field that you had 887 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,560 before. So howdy were the victims of 888 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,320 that in 97? The streak of. 889 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,840 Williams and Rene dominance in qualifying ended at Brands Hatch 890 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,760 after Jason Plato and Alan Menu claimed all 7 pole positions of 891 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,480 the season so far. Hondas Gabrieli Tanquini finally 892 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,080 disrupted the trend by securing pole for the second race of the 893 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,320 day. With the Renaults. 894 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,720 Of Menu and Jason Plato getting down into the mid 40 fours 895 00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:39,240 bracket in testing along with the Hondas of Tanquini and James 896 00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:43,560 Thompson. Menu's qualifying best of 44.86 897 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:45,720 seconds was a little disappointing for the 898 00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:49,200 championship leader, but was explained by overnight rain 899 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,480 washing the track and making the tracks appear as a result. 900 00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:56,720 The Honda. Drivers seemed initially to cope 901 00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:59,800 best of the mild changing conditions, but then the Renault 902 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,160 steamroller was pressed into action, turning the front row 903 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,000 from all only in red to all yellow and blue in the last five 904 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,560 minutes of the session. It's close, what can I say? 905 00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:14,440 Said menu about the top 4 being covered by 1/10 of a second, 906 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,040 Alex. Certainly a lot closer than most 907 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:19,880 of the season had been so far in 19. 908 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,480 Yeah, yeah, it. Had been and it had. 909 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,120 It had been worse than that. And four races in and the field 910 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,640 was closing up. Honda. 911 00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,360 We just discussed the amount of development work they were 912 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,360 doing. It was obvious that they were 913 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:34,760 moving towards the front of the field. 914 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,720 They did. They did well at at Thruxton and 915 00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:42,120 had taken another step further here again, however, I would 916 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,760 like to sort of. Pour water on. 917 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,440 That in the fact that it was also Brands indie, it's the 918 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:52,000 shortest track of the year. So you know you're looking at 919 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,320 one second covering most of the grid. 920 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,040 That's how how tight it was at Brands and it always is. 921 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,080 I'd assume it probably still is something similar. 922 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:05,760 Now in the BTCC again, I don't know, but I'm sure it's 923 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,280 something very similar. Whenever you race at Brands 924 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,480 Hatch, the. The the. 925 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,520 The qualifying times will condense just because of the 926 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,200 nature of the circuit. Although it was lovely to see 927 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:21,120 the old Graham Hill there. I do miss old Graham Hill. 928 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,480 I do miss old Graham Hill. So yeah. 929 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,760 Yeah. Yeah, as we've. 930 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,920 Already said Tanquini took the pole for the second race. 931 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,040 Menu always stole it right at the last second, but the Swiss 932 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:37,760 driver failed by just 0.05 seconds to match the Italians 933 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,000 time. At the death, Thompson booted 934 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:45,040 Menu off the front row entirely to give Honda their first ever 935 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:49,280 front row lockout in the series. I dug deep in the last few 936 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,840 minutes and managed to scramble one out when the Yorkshire went 937 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:56,400 after the session. Nissan's Anthony Reed had his 938 00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,720 strongest showing yet, pushing Plato onto the 3rd row of the 939 00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:01,920 grid by taking forth at the death. 940 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,600 There was more. Sorry for Ricard Riedel however, 941 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:10,520 Menu's closest rival going into the meeting only 10th on the 942 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,120 race one grid. He at least improved his sixth 943 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:17,520 later on after drastic set up changes to his TWR Volvo. 944 00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,760 Forward improved. With seventh for Hoy and 8th for 945 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,480 Adesich, with the new one day looking far more competitive at 946 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,880 the start of the season. Adam. 947 00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,120 Despite the dominance of Renault at the front, it was quite a mix 948 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,320 up order behind them, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. 949 00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:40,760 I mean, again, that that's what makes the BTCC what it is. 950 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:42,520 That's what we want. That's why we watch it, because 951 00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:47,040 it is so varied at times. But anything can happen. 952 00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:49,840 Probably will. Yeah, that's pretty much like 953 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,680 one of the the same. Take that one, Greg, I'll let 954 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,320 you have that one. But but it's it is it's like 955 00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,520 anything can happen. It probably will because you you 956 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,680 just don't know what's next. You know, you look at that first 957 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,240 race where they qualified with the the two Renaults and two 958 00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:07,040 hundreds or two Nissans. But the races didn't go that 959 00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,040 way, did they? Completely. 960 00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:13,880 It's it's completely mixed bag. And that's what that's what we 961 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,400 love and that's why we watched it because it was so varied. 962 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,000 But like, you know, I've already made this note here about what 963 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,760 you've just said. How good was it to see Granville 964 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:23,760 Bend? You know, I was so disappointed 965 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,240 when they changed it because it was a ballsy corner. 966 00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:30,000 It was a corner he had to be committed to because he on new 967 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:34,320 tyres on, you know, it was flat, but then, you know, full tanks 968 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,240 and worn tyres. It wasn't, it was a little bit 969 00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:38,840 of a lift on the way in and wasn't always flat, you know, 970 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:40,600 and and obviously made it interesting in the rain. 971 00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,400 So it was such a good corner. So it was good to watch that 972 00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,360 back and and see that because that's one of those corners 973 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,400 where they've changed it. I don't know why they've changed 974 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,000 it because they want another break in area for for potential 975 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,160 overtakes because brands Indies so difficult. 976 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,280 And I think that's why it's a little bit processional because 977 00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:00,960 brands can be like that, either full carnage or it's 978 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:02,640 processional. It's like one or the other. 979 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,440 And again, if yes, just one of the corners like Dingle dolls 980 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,280 changed and they're like all those and Nets and obviously 981 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:16,400 then massively changed and you know, the bum hole and Oh yeah, 982 00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,400 just get me, get me into those, those corners that were so 983 00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:20,760 great. But I'm so pleased that I got to 984 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,040 drive on them ready before they but they changed them and then I 985 00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:25,720 got to use them on both. But yeah, it's good. 986 00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:32,800 It's good to see. Race they dawned at Brands Hatch 987 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,960 mark in a historic moment for British motorsport as the first 988 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,880 ever BTCC races to be broadcast live on the BBC. 989 00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,400 We're about to begin. It was a bright and sunny day, 990 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,040 and despite the fact that it was on the television, the 991 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:48,880 grandstands were as pact as ever. 992 00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:52,680 Thompson thrust through to 2nd place at the start, blasting 993 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:56,240 ahead of the second runner with Jason Plato and trying to brave 994 00:49:56,240 --> 00:49:59,480 it out around the outside of Paddock Kilbend with Menu. 995 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:04,160 He initially held off Plato and David Leslie's Nissan, allowing 996 00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:08,800 Menu to make his Escape and build a 1.242 second margin by 997 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,400 the end of the third lap, which saw him set a new lap record in 998 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,080 the process. My start was. 999 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,800 Very good, although James, this was obviously better. 1000 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,840 Al answered afterwards. But I got a very good gap in the 1001 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,880 first couple of laps. I was pulling away a little bit 1002 00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,040 every lap and just making sure I didn't make a mistake. 1003 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:32,280 Greg, a very, very tight start. And Thompson nearly got menu as 1004 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,400 well as Plato, didn't he? He did. 1005 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,400 Didn't he? I mean Thompson really was an up 1006 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,320 and coming talent at this point in time wasn't? 1007 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,240 He'd switched to Honda from Vauxhall. 1008 00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:44,040 He'd won with Vauxhall twice in the previous two years. 1009 00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,760 I mean it was it race 4 of 1995 I think when Charlie Cox had his 1010 00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,760 massive accidents at Thruxton and Thompson won and really 1011 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,080 showed up. Third meeting race. 3 was even 1012 00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,600 earlier. Than I thought so he he really 1013 00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,080 showed up Cleddon and then of course he pushed him off at 1014 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,000 Snetterton and took the first vector win and the only win for 1015 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,920 Vauxhall in 19 six. So here we have Thompson now 1016 00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,560 putting Gabrielli Tarquini in the shade a bit as well. 1017 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,920 Former champion, former F1 driver and he did need to get 1018 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,440 menu and it was a sort of aggression we got used to 1019 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,520 seeing. Wasn't it the fearless James 1020 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,280 Thompson as he was known over the next few years? 1021 00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:22,600 He was right up there as Thompson. 1022 00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:24,920 Headed played to win Leslie in a group which seemed to 1023 00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,640 Constantine a both ways for out most of the race. 1024 00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,640 Menu soon raced into a three second lead. 1025 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,680 Behind. Wilhoy's excellent race in 6th 1026 00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:38,160 place was ruined with a loose window, the stewards calling the 1027 00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,720 Ford in for repairs. He ignored the calls until he 1028 00:51:41,720 --> 00:51:43,840 had to pit on laptop with a misfire. 1029 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,920 The race was. Processional from then on, 4 1030 00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,840 laps from the end, Menu made a mistake which saw the Renault's 1031 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:55,880 advantage momentarily plummet to 1.7 seconds 4 laps from home. 1032 00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,360 I got onto the. Marbles at Paddock and I was 1033 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,840 sliding a bit and then the car slid for a lap whilst the tyres 1034 00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:07,400 cleared, Menu recounted. Maybe I had lost concentration 1035 00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,560 for a bit but it woke me up. Adam. 1036 00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,160 Is that easy to do when you're protecting the lead or or sort 1037 00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,040 of a few seconds clear of the rest? 1038 00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,320 It is because. They're sort of the harder the 1039 00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,760 some of the easiest races to win if you've got a comfortable 1040 00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,960 lead, but they're also just a split second of lapse in 1041 00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:27,920 concentration. We've seen this in, in 1042 00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,920 motorsport where somebody that's clearly in the lead has, has 1043 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,320 gone off or crashed and it's easily done. 1044 00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:38,040 And you've got to think about all the marbles, all the debris, 1045 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,320 all the bits of rubber that when we did the the circuit walk at 1046 00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,840 Super Tour in power the weekend last last year, you could just 1047 00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,760 see, and that's just on a, on a, on a meeting that's not got 1048 00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:50,520 hundreds of cars going around it. 1049 00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,520 But you know, back then there'd been a lot and lot of marbles on 1050 00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,640 the outside and you could see how off camber paddock is. 1051 00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,680 It's a fast entry to it. It's off camber, it's downhill. 1052 00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,400 You know, it's all it couldn't have happened at a worst corner. 1053 00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,840 So, you know, taking all that into consideration, he he, he 1054 00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:09,960 got away with it. But yeah, that could have ended 1055 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,920 up easily in the gravel. But it yeah, when you when 1056 00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:14,160 you're leading like that, you haven't. 1057 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:16,880 You you're thinking. Differently with yes, you're 1058 00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,720 focused, but then you're you're thinking in a different way when 1059 00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:22,800 you're in the middle of a pack and you're chasing someone and 1060 00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:27,440 you know you're so much more focused and you've probably seen 1061 00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,600 this a bit in bikes, Greg where someone's got an absolute 1062 00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,160 stonking lead and then all of a sudden something could go wrong 1063 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,680 but yeah they can race wheel to wheel and not actually nothing 1064 00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:39,000 go wrong at all you know in cars and bikes you know it's it's 1065 00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,680 easily done I was going to say as. 1066 00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,920 Well, AD as a racer, I mean, the facts, the window was loose in 1067 00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,240 the Mondeo and they were going to call him in for that. 1068 00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:48,920 Is that really posing much of A danger incident? 1069 00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:52,720 I remember, wasn't it Radissitz, you had a loose Mondeo window as 1070 00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:54,480 well earlier with the year? He did. 1071 00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,120 Yeah. And that was very mentioning 1072 00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:57,920 that. So there was obviously a 1073 00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,920 weakness there, but does that really warrant being called in? 1074 00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:02,960 Is that really that dangerous to anybody? 1075 00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:05,960 If I know it's in case it flies off, but you know, is it and it 1076 00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,440 and it and it? And it's, it's not glass anyway, 1077 00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:12,240 It's it's perspex put on. So we so it's, it's, you know, 1078 00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:14,680 they design a case that come out and they're not going to shatter 1079 00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,680 like glass wood. But again, it's, it's down to 1080 00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,720 it's down to the the person in charge of making that call, 1081 00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:22,160 whether that's a dangerous manoeuvre. 1082 00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:27,520 And that's why I think the whole driver steward thing is, you 1083 00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:29,040 know, when it comes down to Formula One and there's 1084 00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,400 obviously this uproar of, you know, driver steward and 1085 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,600 inconsistency and FAA consistency and all this that 1086 00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,360 and the other, I just think it just needs a level head. 1087 00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:41,960 But some decisions need to come from a driver's perspective and 1088 00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,240 some like that. Would that need to come from a 1089 00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:46,800 driver's perspective? Probably none. 1090 00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,800 But you don't want to you also don't want to ruin someone's 1091 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,080 weekend. And like you said, what what's 1092 00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,440 the worst that could happen if that if that came out, it's 1093 00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,240 going to slide to the side of the circuit and it's going to 1094 00:54:58,240 --> 00:54:59,520 end up on the grass or in the gravel. 1095 00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:03,320 It's not going to impact anyone or cause any danger to anybody. 1096 00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,000 Could it cause a puncture? Maybe if somebody if it did end 1097 00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,480 up on the track or it's unlikely, isn't it? 1098 00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,680 Yeah, it's it's. Probably unlikely, but it's the 1099 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:12,560 unknown isn't. You don't want the unknown, you 1100 00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:14,760 don't want the what ifs. And, ah, we should have done 1101 00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:15,640 this. We should have done that. 1102 00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,640 If there's ever any doubt, you've got to make the safety 1103 00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:20,480 call, haven't you? Yeah, and I suppose. 1104 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,120 Also, let's not forget we're only three years on from the 1105 00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:24,760 death of Ayrton Senna at this point. 1106 00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:26,040 Yeah. And there was a lot of changes 1107 00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,400 being made to circus all around the world. 1108 00:55:29,720 --> 00:55:32,680 And also Derek Warwick following the loss of his brother Paul at 1109 00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,960 Alton Park. Yeah, 1991 had walked every 1110 00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,000 single British circuit and found things on pretty much all of 1111 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,440 them that they could change. And that also LED, didn't it, to 1112 00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,400 what we were saying before changes to the tracks such as 1113 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:48,400 slowing down Graham Hill Bend to, you know, decrease from 1114 00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,040 because if you went off there in the old configuration, there 1115 00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,360 wouldn't have been much run off. If you'd had a high speed off on 1116 00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:54,880 the exit, you'd be in big trouble, wouldn't you? 1117 00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,080 Yeah. Yeah, especially in a single. 1118 00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:58,760 Theatre, yeah. Absolutely. 1119 00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:00,200 You've got to think of all formulas. 1120 00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,160 You know, you're obviously more safer in a, in a touring car 1121 00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,880 than you are in a Formula three car or even a Formula Ford car. 1122 00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,800 But then you know, for how many years was the Formula Ford 1123 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,000 Festival going on there where there's like 50-60 Formula fours 1124 00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:17,480 going around the indie circuit open while you know, it's it's 1125 00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:21,000 it's only, it only takes 1 shunt doesn't it only takes one, one 1126 00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:25,040 thing after 6. BTCC races which have provided a 1127 00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,280 fair amount of excitement. The series was due the first 1128 00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:32,360 processional one of the season right on cue for the live TV 1129 00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,520 coverage. Alex. 1130 00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:37,840 Unfortunate that the first ever live race was a bit of a drab 1131 00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:39,840 affair, wasn't it? Yeah. 1132 00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:44,520 It was unlucky the opener at Donnington, it wasn't the best 1133 00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:49,440 but it was OK BHP probably made that one look pretty decent, 1134 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:51,800 probably be better than it actually was. 1135 00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,120 Silverstone was exciting and would have been a great live 1136 00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:57,840 race. Thruxton would have been an 1137 00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,160 incredible live race, the one that the one that Tim Harvey 1138 00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:02,840 nearly won. If you remember the wet and dry 1139 00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:06,280 races with the tyres, that would have been an incredible live 1140 00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,160 race to have as the first race wasn't it? 1141 00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:15,960 So it's a bit of a shame, but I think on balance the BBC and 1142 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,840 Grandstand got quite lucky with the the live races they did show 1143 00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:25,440 I'm looking at in 97. The next live one would have 1144 00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:29,320 been Donington and that was a wet and dry race that was 1145 00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,840 exciting. Thruxton. 1146 00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,440 Thruxton. They did Nokia in 97, then to 1147 00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,440 98. They had obviously the huge one, 1148 00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:39,720 Donnington. Everyone remembers Donnington. 1149 00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:43,160 I mean could there not have been a better race to showcase the 1150 00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:48,800 BTCC than that? The other live races we had were 1151 00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,360 at Thruxton in 98. That was a that was a good one. 1152 00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,760 And then you moved to 99 and then you had that Matt Neal race 1153 00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,520 and again another brilliant live race that. 1154 00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:04,320 So overall, the BTCC got fairly lucky with their their live 1155 00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,840 races. But yeah, the first one was 1156 00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:11,440 just, oh, it was awful. It's up there with I think the 1157 00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:16,920 season opener at Donnington in 95 as just one of the most sort 1158 00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:20,640 of boring race. And you know, listen, it 1159 00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,960 happens, You know, I mean, I'm a big football fan. 1160 00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,200 You can get really boring nil nil draws. 1161 00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:29,640 I'm a Cardiff fan. You get lots of those, but do 1162 00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:33,240 you do you know what I mean? It it happens it it not every 1163 00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,600 race, not every race is going to be exciting. 1164 00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,880 Not every sports match is going to be the best. 1165 00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,200 Sometimes you get a stinker, and I'm afraid this one was a 1166 00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,560 stinker. To be to be fair, as. 1167 00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:46,760 Well, though, I mean, I mean Brands 98 wasn't much better. 1168 00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,000 Was it the same race meeting in 98? 1169 00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,680 In 10, yes, correct. It was Rydell. 1170 00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:55,480 Dominated at least this 97. We got different winners, didn't 1171 00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:56,840 we? The mid, The midfield. 1172 00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:00,760 Was a bit more exciting in 98 and obviously you had, you know, 1173 00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:02,400 Derek Warwick. Yeah, it's a yeah. 1174 00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,720 Well, because you had pit stops and he took out the tie wall, 1175 00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:07,960 didn't he come in? But you're right, the Sprint 1176 00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:09,720 race in 98 had Matt Neil holding up. 1177 00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,920 A few people didn't end up drama with Plato as Adam said. 1178 00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:16,400 You either get brilliant races of Brands Hatch or it can throw 1179 00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:18,040 an odd stinker in there now and again. 1180 00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,480 But coming back to. Donnington 95, Alex, that's a 1181 00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,600 good example. What's the thing we most 1182 00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,560 remember about Donnington 95? Yeah, in my opinion that would 1183 00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:27,240 be 5. Grand please, Derek. 1184 00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,040 Exactly now. That Derek Warwick alpha moment 1185 00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:32,880 that wouldn't have been captured in the same way if it was lives 1186 00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,920 this no what Murray said before we wouldn't have had he's broken 1187 00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:39,160 our camera lens and you wouldn't on boards into the barrier. 1188 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:42,600 So again, This is why Murray had the opinion he did at the time. 1189 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,440 Now the live coverage is far better if you look at what ITV 1190 00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:47,880 puts out today. But the on board signals weren't 1191 00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:49,760 as strong in 97. You know you had to have a 1192 00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:51,680 helicopter up didn't you? For a start, That's right. 1193 00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:53,680 Yeah, yeah, a signal. No, because what would have 1194 00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:55,720 happened is they'd have been following the leaders and then 1195 00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:58,080 suddenly they'd have cut to Derek Warwick already in the 1196 00:59:58,080 --> 00:59:59,080 wall. Exactly. 1197 00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:00,080 And they? Wouldn't have shown. 1198 01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:02,360 They wouldn't have shown the camera because it was already 1199 01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:03,640 broken. Precisely. 1200 01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:05,280 And you? Might not have got an onboard 1201 01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,080 replay. You know, if you look at the 1202 01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:10,400 replay of a bit of a spoiler alert here, but the menu read 1203 01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:12,720 collision that's coming up later in race 20. 1204 01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:17,560 What happens? You'd have to go back and. 1205 01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:21,040 Watch on the season review Al OK, but but what are the replays 1206 01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:22,720 back then? If you look it actually used to 1207 01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:25,080 replay the live coverage of the time. 1208 01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,840 So if you watch the replay, it cuts from the helicopter to the 1209 01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:31,360 on board on the replay at exactly the same moment because 1210 01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:33,080 they're just replaying the live coverage. 1211 01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:35,960 Yes, so much more basic compared to what it is now. 1212 01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:38,040 Well, I. Remember Matt and Neil telling 1213 01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:42,680 me that they literally had the camera in the car and it led to 1214 01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,080 where the passenger seat would be in your car? 1215 01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:46,920 A VCR? Yeah. 1216 01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:49,320 Yeah. And that, yeah. 1217 01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,880 Obviously the you know, think of the you know when we've been 1218 01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:57,040 doing stuff at Browns House and you're just sticking go pros 1219 01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:59,480 here and there now. Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's a 1220 01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:02,560 different world now, isn't it? As you say, technology has come 1221 01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,640 on so much that they can do the things they wanted to do at the 1222 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,120 time. Can you imagine the? 1223 01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:10,680 Job the editors had back at BHP to put all that together because 1224 01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:13,440 there was also tapes on all the individual track cameras. 1225 01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,280 There were no time codes like sticking it all together. 1226 01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:18,640 That's why every now and again, if you watch about some of the 1227 01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:20,400 BHP stuff, it's not quite in line. 1228 01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,040 They'll cut away from 1:00 or to another and you'll actually be a 1229 01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:26,120 second behind or you've jumped a second or you've gone back a 1230 01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:29,480 second. And that's why Steve Ryder 1231 01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:31,560 obviously said, look, it's not a proper portrayal of what's 1232 01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,400 actually going on here. Murray's argument was that just 1233 01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:36,600 doesn't matter, does it? As long as it entertains people. 1234 01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:38,400 So different ways of looking at it. 1235 01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:40,480 I don't think either Steve or Murray was wrong or right. 1236 01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:41,800 There were just different opinions. 1237 01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:44,440 And I can understand both of them, to be honest with you. 1238 01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:47,920 It's an. Often people who want to throw 1239 01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:51,440 water on the Super Touring era, which disgusts me, to be quite 1240 01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:56,520 honest with you. But it's it's an argument that's 1241 01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:58,560 often used. So it was just all edited 1242 01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:02,720 highlights and never really said the stuff had to happen for them 1243 01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:04,520 to be in the highlights. Yeah. 1244 01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,800 It wasn't as if they were like, right, OK, let's let's get on a 1245 01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:09,800 PlayStation. Let's get on a PlayStation and 1246 01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,120 just make stuff up. It had to happen for it to be 1247 01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:15,800 exciting. Yes, They made the slightly less 1248 01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:19,480 exciting races a little bit more exciting, but the good races 1249 01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,160 were good races because they were good races anyway. 1250 01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:25,480 Yeah, my 2 pence. Worth anyway. 1251 01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:29,160 Yeah, and the. Same way another thing that came 1252 01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:32,400 in in 1997 was the team radio communications. 1253 01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:33,960 That's something we've ever seen before. 1254 01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:36,160 Love it. That actually was recorded 1255 01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:39,080 highlights, but that really was ahead of its time. 1256 01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:42,520 I mean, yes, it was. 2000. And four, I believe it was 1257 01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:45,640 Formula One started broadcasting into the world feed, not digital 1258 01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:49,720 feed, but the terrestrial. It was 2004, but it's. 1259 01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:51,560 Only become a. It's only become like an 1260 01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,640 integral part of the footage in F1. 1261 01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,800 Only recently, yeah. In terms of picking. 1262 01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:59,320 It all up and putting, yeah, like they do online and 1263 01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:03,040 everything, yes, you could argue sometimes now it ends up 1264 01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:05,080 dominating a bit too much actually. 1265 01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:06,840 They have attention away from the race. 1266 01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:09,360 A lot of that's to survive. To survive as well, I think. 1267 01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:15,000 Yeah, adds to the spice and the everything else that goes with 1268 01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:16,960 it, really. And nowadays and nowadays. 1269 01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:20,320 And now the drivers know they're going to be broadcaster. 1270 01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:23,200 They use it as a way to get what they want as well, don't they? 1271 01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:29,400 Toca would have been. Hopeful that Race 2 would be a 1272 01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:33,320 lively affair than the opening race of the weekend and it was 1273 01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:38,560 well after 25 laps. Thompson's second. 1274 01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,040 Good start of the day saw him leapfrog teammate Tarquini into 1275 01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:45,520 the lead at paddock. I'm happy, said a magnanimous 1276 01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:48,800 Tanquini after the success of a teammate he likes well and gets 1277 01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:52,800 on with like a house on fire. The 1st place is important not 1278 01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,320 only for him but also for the team because it shows our car 1279 01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:58,560 can be competitive on the slower tracks too. 1280 01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:02,960 Thompson LED Tarquini a menu and that's how it stayed for the 1281 01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:06,840 next 28 laps. After that, Tanquini appeared to 1282 01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:10,280 struggle and started locking up and holding back menu. 1283 01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:14,480 He was then falling into the clutches of Anthony Reed with 1284 01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:17,040 menu being held up. Reed made his move coming into 1285 01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:20,160 clearways on Lat 30 and you can see. 1286 01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:22,400 Now that this look, look at the white Nissan. 1287 01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,480 The Nissan Reed is right. Yes, Anthony Nissan. 1288 01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:28,080 Anthony Nissan. Steady jump. 1289 01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:32,240 Steady Walker. Antony Reid in the Nissan is now 1290 01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,800 right up with Alan Menu going for 3rd. 1291 01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,320 But whoa and bang that was too much. 1292 01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:42,400 And into the wall. So that's 15 points. 1293 01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:47,000 That's points lost. 4 Alan Menu rejoins. 1294 01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:50,360 Alan Menu. Rejoins Now that is a surprise. 1295 01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:54,600 Reid made contact with the rear of Menu's car, with both ending 1296 01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:58,480 up in the tyre wall. Menu spun installed but rejoined 1297 01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:01,960 behind Leslie in Plato, whilst Reed struggled to get into 1298 01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:04,120 reverse and eventually rejoined the field. 1299 01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,920 Always slapped down, Essentially my fault. 1300 01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:12,000 Summarised Reed after the race. In my defence I wasn't looking 1301 01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,520 to go through but just let him know that I was there. 1302 01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:18,920 He anchored up and came across my bow so I locked up, slid and 1303 01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:20,880 nudged his car and round he went. 1304 01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:24,200 Menu was not feeling charitable towards his assailant. 1305 01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:28,080 I'd looked in my mirror and thought, OK, he cannot try. 1306 01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:31,400 And then he hit me. Guys, I. 1307 01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:35,520 Think this might be quite a straightforward this guy on this 1308 01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:38,280 one, but the blame goes to Anthony Reed on this one 1309 01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:39,960 probably, doesn't it? This is the can. 1310 01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,240 Opener gone wrong. Yeah, hold on. 1311 01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:45,360 I was just going to say this is far from the can opener, this 1312 01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:48,920 one. This wasn't the inside can open 1313 01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,520 the moment. This was just a blade to when 1314 01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:53,880 you look back at the footage, I think it was the might be the 1315 01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:55,440 helicops for the higher it looked. 1316 01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:58,640 When you go through the left into the right, you've already 1317 01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:01,680 made your decision through the left if you're going to lunge at 1318 01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:05,320 the inside or not. And obviously you carry more 1319 01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:06,960 momentum. You break later and you've got 1320 01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:09,960 to commit yourself. To me, it looks like it 1321 01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:13,960 committed initially, but then a big second thought. 1322 01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:17,200 Actually, no, I'm not. I'm not close enough and start 1323 01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:18,760 and then move to the middle of the circuit. 1324 01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,880 And by that point, because it it broke later and and it wasn't 1325 01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,560 going in there quicker, obviously he's just completely 1326 01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:27,360 ploughed into the back of him. He'd have been better off 1327 01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:30,320 committing to the inside where at worst did have knocked him 1328 01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:33,240 wide or sideways and the both could have carried on. 1329 01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:36,600 But, and that's what happens, that literal split decision 1330 01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:39,040 where he. Could just see backed out of it 1331 01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:40,640 he. Changed his mind and that's 1332 01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:42,960 where it all went wrong. Yeah, horrible panic. 1333 01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,600 Moment, wasn't it a frantic, like you said, cars? 1334 01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:47,080 I was like. What have I done? 1335 01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:48,960 Yeah. And you can see him locking up, 1336 01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:50,240 can't you? There's smoke pouring off the 1337 01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:50,880 tyres. The. 1338 01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:54,760 The rays all the which is which is natural because the the 1339 01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:58,240 weight of the back, but the the front also momentarily lot what 1340 01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:01,440 he's he's tried to brake harder to avoid him, but he should have 1341 01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:04,320 just done the can opener. That's what he should have done. 1342 01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:06,600 He should have done the can opener because at least he'd 1343 01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,000 have, you know, potentially got away with it. 1344 01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:12,120 But thankfully. For the sake of BBC television 1345 01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:14,880 and grandstand, it was a brilliant TV moment which they 1346 01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:17,680 needed after. Had a rather. 1347 01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:20,840 Calm day relatively speaking. I have to say there was a great 1348 01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:23,600 move from Reed in race one on Rydell into paddock. 1349 01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:25,600 That was a really good move though. 1350 01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:27,320 It was this race, it was earlier in this race. 1351 01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:30,520 He passed Rydell and then proceeded to hunt down menu and 1352 01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:32,880 that was a four taste of what was to come. 1353 01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:36,280 Later in the year with Reed and Rydell fighting had the second 1354 01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:39,480 brands round and obviously the the next year when they fought 1355 01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:42,920 and memorably collided at Druids and that resulted in another 1356 01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:46,200 Mark Fomay altercation for Reedy at Brands Hatch. 1357 01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:49,200 But yeah, this one he he said himself didn't he locked it, got 1358 01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:52,720 it wrong, hit menu. It opened up the championship a 1359 01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:54,600 bit though, because menu was so far ahead anyway. 1360 01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:56,720 So it was probably good from a neutral point of view to take a 1361 01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:59,040 a few points off it. It's also we've. 1362 01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:03,640 Not mentioned it here, but it it also is all stems from Murray's 1363 01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:05,480 wonderful Anthony Nissan. The Nissan. 1364 01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:09,760 Yes, steady chap, steady Walker, the Nissan magnet. 1365 01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:12,440 As cock said and then. Yes, yeah. 1366 01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:15,800 And then the just the Anthony Reed and the Nissan Ant. 1367 01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:20,760 I remember I'm. Just saying add bag. 1368 01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:23,720 That was too much, yeah. Yeah, yeah. 1369 01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:26,000 Brilliant. I love the way that. 1370 01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:30,000 What was great action and kudos to the director and the producer 1371 01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:32,520 on this one, they cut to the on board just as it went into the 1372 01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:33,760 tar barrier. Yes, that was. 1373 01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:34,520 Great. Yeah. 1374 01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:37,600 And you could see the camera obviously positioned to drop. 1375 01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:38,840 Does it hit the barrier? Because it. 1376 01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:41,960 Yeah, it sort of went to the. It dropped to an angle, didn't 1377 01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:42,840 it? Yeah, I mean. 1378 01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:45,040 And you just think how quickly you'll have a director there 1379 01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:48,840 saying go to on board just as in the middle of all that panic and 1380 01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:50,520 he still had the presence of mind to switch. 1381 01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:53,720 That's good stuff from. Yeah, from the very good and. 1382 01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:57,640 The to do that always not. Lost though as Menu rejoined the 1383 01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:01,880 track with Leslie and Plato passing through the 2nd Renault 1384 01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:05,080 Man had felt a problem with his death and mindful that he would 1385 01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:08,560 not overtake the Nissan, Plato backed off on the run to the 1386 01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:12,840 line to allow Menu into fourth and two extra vital points. 1387 01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:17,560 Greg, is this all a bit unnecessary considering early on 1388 01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:20,720 in the season in the and championship position for Menu? 1389 01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:26,040 Well, Alex is laughing because he probably thinks it was, but I 1390 01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:27,680 can understand why they would do that. 1391 01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:31,240 You know, Williams, think back to Adelaide 86 and what happened 1392 01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:34,200 with Nigel Mansell. And then PK was called in, 1393 01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:35,560 wasn't it? And they lost the temperature to 1394 01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:39,279 Prost and think back to 87 when Mansell aggravated his back 1395 01:09:39,279 --> 01:09:41,000 injury and lost it to PK in Japan. 1396 01:09:41,359 --> 01:09:43,120 Williams have been in this position before. 1397 01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:46,399 So you're not a man to fan out Williams? 1398 01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,960 Come on, you know. Come on, Greg, can't be as I 1399 01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,880 say. Menu was running out for the 1400 01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:55,080 previous two years. He was the title challenger. 1401 01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:57,080 Honda were getting stronger. There was a long way still to 1402 01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:58,240 go. I can understand it. 1403 01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:01,000 To be fair from from Williams, they're not going to lose any 1404 01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,720 points in the in the manufacturers Championship, are 1405 01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:05,040 they? And it was always going to be 1406 01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:06,800 many challenging and not places to be fair. 1407 01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:08,440 Yeah, I think it was the right call. 1408 01:10:08,440 --> 01:10:10,320 Why would you not do that? If only. 1409 01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:14,640 Alan remembered this favour at Silverstone finale, yes. 1410 01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:16,800 Yeah, true, true. Renault would. 1411 01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,480 Have had a one too. Yeah, that's annoying. 1412 01:10:19,480 --> 01:10:21,760 In a way, isn't it that that symmetry was wrecked? 1413 01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:23,880 Yeah, yeah. Because it was so. 1414 01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:25,480 Unnecessary. That Silverstone incident. 1415 01:10:25,480 --> 01:10:26,440 Yeah, it was. It was. 1416 01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:28,920 I'm sure we'll discuss it at one point, yeah. 1417 01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:31,480 On the pod but. Yeah, it was crazy. 1418 01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:36,800 Regardless. Of the rights or wrongs of team 1419 01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,680 orders, it gave the Swiss driver extra leeway in the 1420 01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:43,520 championship, leeway for which the foundations were laid by a 1421 01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:46,000 terrible weekend for Ricard Riedel. 1422 01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:49,880 Lacking in gripping qualifying, particularly out of the crucial 1423 01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:53,200 slow bends at Druids and Clearways, the Swede at least 1424 01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:56,560 managed to hold off Volvo teammate Kelvin Burt and Frank 1425 01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:58,840 Bieders ALDI for 7th in race one. 1426 01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:02,680 In the second race he made a great start from the 3rd Rd to 1427 01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:05,960 life 4th and was beginning to start a defence from Leslie in 1428 01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:08,680 Plato when his front left tyre punctured. 1429 01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:13,040 I felt it happen exiting clear ways but I was just past the pit 1430 01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,080 entry Rd so I was having to steer with half lock going down 1431 01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:18,640 the straight. Subsequent pit. 1432 01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:20,600 Stop dropped him to the back of the field. 1433 01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:24,280 Beer, running strongly in the late stages thanks to 1434 01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:27,720 improvements made to the Audi between races, was therefore 1435 01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:31,040 able to take sixth position, fettering the encouragingly 1436 01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:34,240 performing fault on days of Will Hoy and Paul Randasich. 1437 01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,200 Adam. Overall, not the greatest race 1438 01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:40,760 meeting to show off the championship for its first live 1439 01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:43,560 broadcast, was it? No, but I think. 1440 01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:45,080 We've we've all touched on that, haven't we? 1441 01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:48,240 You know, we've alluded to this where brands is is all or 1442 01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:49,880 nothing. I think you're going to get a 1443 01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:55,440 lot of action accidents or it can be processional. 1444 01:11:55,440 --> 01:11:58,920 And we you know, we did mention that from the very often it's 1445 01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:01,280 just, it's just one of the things I don't think it would 1446 01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:07,000 have where we think it was because we're fans and and 1447 01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:11,280 petroleds and and we know that what the standard of touring car 1448 01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:13,160 racing was. But you imagine people that, 1449 01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:16,200 like we said before, that have grandstand are in the 1450 01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:17,840 background. They're drawn to it. 1451 01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:21,960 They've seen enough action to go, wow, this is amazing to us, 1452 01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:25,360 not so much, but to them it was all it needed them to do was 1453 01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:28,200 just TuneIn for the next race and then that was it. 1454 01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:31,080 Then then that that get, Oh my God, this is getting even 1455 01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:33,000 better. The excitement's getting Oh my 1456 01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:35,000 God, what is happening here? You can just imagine it, can't 1457 01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:37,400 you? And that it just drew so many 1458 01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:40,240 people into it. And yeah, it wasn't probably the 1459 01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:45,000 the best one to to to launch the live, you know, the action from 1460 01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:47,920 but. That's from our. 1461 01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:50,480 Perspective. I think from a from a general 1462 01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:54,120 public perspective, to try and bring in new fans, it was more 1463 01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:58,200 than enough. Despite the. 1464 01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:01,880 Processional nature of the racing The BBC was very happy 1465 01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:05,160 with the figures from this race meeting with over 2,000,000 1466 01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:08,600 viewers tuning in to watch. We are very happy with the 1467 01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:12,800 coverage our first live BTCC meeting produced, said Jim 1468 01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:16,440 Reside of the BBC, whilst Alan Gow was pleased too. 1469 01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:19,960 The teams worked really well with the BBC as it was the first 1470 01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:23,240 time and it can be expanded for our next live event at 1471 01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:26,000 Donington. Alex, would you say it was a 1472 01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:28,560 success overall? Yeah. 1473 01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:35,160 I mean, I would. It brought the BTCC into the 1474 01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:42,520 mainstream that 50 minutes or 30 minutes prior to 97 wouldn't do. 1475 01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:46,880 Yeah. It's just, it's just one of 1476 01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:48,320 those really annoying things, isn't it? 1477 01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:51,480 That it just wasn't perfect. It wasn't a great race. 1478 01:13:51,480 --> 01:13:56,880 It wasn't not, I'm not to say it wasn't like a crash fest or it 1479 01:13:56,880 --> 01:14:01,800 wasn't like, but it wasn't side to side action aplenty. 1480 01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:07,760 Like I think 99 Brands Hatch, you know, Can you imagine that 1481 01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:11,400 was a live race, the three three going into paddock alongside 1482 01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:14,720 each other for for for Mueller's first win, you know, and that's 1483 01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:16,160 just the luck of the draw, sadly. 1484 01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:20,560 Racing fans were probably going to tune in anyway, whether it 1485 01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:24,440 was whether it was exciting or not. 1486 01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:30,640 Yeah, it's just a shame that it wasn't as exciting as it could 1487 01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:35,280 have been, but everyone seemed happy with it. 2.1 million 1488 01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:40,080 viewers is pretty, pretty decent considering at the time, I think 1489 01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:42,200 ITV would get about 3 1/2 four million. 1490 01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:45,000 So, you know, there's your there's, there's your sort of 1491 01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:50,720 comparison. Yeah, it worked and obviously 1492 01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:56,120 led the way to the BTCC now being live every race. 1493 01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:02,520 It's just a shame that. Yeah, it's just a shame that it 1494 01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:04,760 really bugs me. It's bizarre because I was at 1495 01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:07,600 the race, so I didn't see the live coverage until I got back. 1496 01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:11,280 And you know what it's like, I mean, with the VCR players at 1497 01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:15,480 the time, you, you had to set it and you have to hit and hope and 1498 01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,520 you might have missed a bit of the start or a bit of the end or 1499 01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:22,560 whatnot. But yeah, it was a real shame 1500 01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:27,960 that it wasn't a real thriller. But you know, it wasn't a done 1501 01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:30,400 into 98, but it was, it was, it was a start. 1502 01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:32,960 It was a start. As I said earlier, they got 1503 01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:35,880 lucky with the majority of their live coverage anyway. 1504 01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:38,240 So yeah. In terms of the races 1505 01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:41,360 themselves, Alex, had you also been at earlier meetings in 97? 1506 01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:47,480 Thruxton and Donnington. I didn't go to Silverstone, so 1507 01:15:47,480 --> 01:15:49,400 we know. Thruxton was very dramatic, but 1508 01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:52,000 did you enjoy brands any less? Did can you remember? 1509 01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:53,080 No. No because less. 1510 01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:56,280 No, because a. Trackside is different, isn't 1511 01:15:56,280 --> 01:16:00,160 it? You, yeah, you're taking it 1512 01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:02,720 especially brands, like you say, it's like a it's like a Super 1513 01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:06,440 Bowl almost, isn't it? But you're taking in the 1514 01:16:06,440 --> 01:16:09,520 atmosphere and the, the ambience as well, aren't you? 1515 01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:11,320 It's the. Smell the noise. 1516 01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:14,000 That's the buzz. Yeah, that's that's the buzz for 1517 01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:14,680 me. All of that. 1518 01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:16,600 Yeah, exactly. It was so disappointing. 1519 01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:18,680 Oh my God, There's John. Cleland, that sort of thing, 1520 01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:22,360 that sort of thing. That's that's how it was for me 1521 01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:27,280 anyway, you know, as a 13 year old boy, 14 year old boy at the 1522 01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:30,160 time. Yeah, so and also as. 1523 01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:34,280 As you read out before Levi, the Alan Gao quotes, you know the 1524 01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:35,880 teams have all worked hard with the BBC. 1525 01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:38,560 That's something else to take into account too, because that 1526 01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:41,440 would have required drivers or team principals or whoever was 1527 01:16:41,440 --> 01:16:43,840 being interviewed to be in a certain place at a certain time 1528 01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:47,360 to see Steve Ryder. That was all different too. 1529 01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:50,160 So as time went on, of course they would start thinking of 1530 01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:52,680 more novel things to do. Remember Donnington 98, when 1531 01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:55,720 they got Mansell and Anna Warwick all together at the end 1532 01:16:55,720 --> 01:16:58,600 of the race? All that sort of thing that's 1533 01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:00,400 different when it's life. You're going to start thinking 1534 01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:02,760 more about that sort of thing. Meanwhile. 1535 01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:06,040 Back at Nissan, Reed was handed a penalty for his incident with 1536 01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:08,720 Menu. He claimed that the endorsement 1537 01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:12,960 and £1000 fine he received was very harsh for a racing incident 1538 01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:15,920 but. Sorry. 1539 01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:18,800 Was it not very. Harsh. 1540 01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:22,600 Then yeah, it was not a racing. Incident I. 1541 01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:25,000 Think the racing, the racing incident. 1542 01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:26,400 I think that's just made me laugh. 1543 01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:27,880 That's true. Bloody hell. 1544 01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:30,320 Harpooning someone? Yeah, yeah. 1545 01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:32,960 Racing incident. Bloody hell, actually, sorry. 1546 01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:35,200 To butt it as well, you know, in the middle of your little 1547 01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:38,280 statement there, but it was kind of the 1st of. 1548 01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:40,680 Many. Anthony Reed incidents we would 1549 01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:43,560 see over the next seven or eight years, yeah. 1550 01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:48,040 If he clashes that as a racing incident, what the hell is a 1551 01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:49,560 bloody blatant 1 going to look like? 1552 01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:51,160 That's a good. Panel puller. 1553 01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:55,640 Yeah. Oh Jesus God, half but they the 1554 01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:58,480 canover is a racing incident like this was. 1555 01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:02,200 This was just slam the can into the wall and this this was. 1556 01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:05,640 Just like absolutely blindly just didn't break and just oh 1557 01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:07,960 God it. Was his first. 1558 01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:10,400 Attempt at the Cano, but he did perfect it over the next few. 1559 01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:11,640 He did. He did. 1560 01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:13,960 He practised, yeah. Yeah, yeah. 1561 01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:16,240 Men knew. Meanwhile said it was the right 1562 01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:18,080 call and said he was an idiot all. 1563 01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:20,320 Right. Great. 1564 01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:25,600 Williams touring car boss Didier de Bay, who like Reed was 1565 01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:29,000 involved in the German series in 1996, remarked. 1566 01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:32,000 That's the problem with Reed. He races the same way 1567 01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,400 everywhere. He's like a headless chicken, 1568 01:18:36,480 --> 01:18:38,600 Greg. It. 1569 01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:42,720 In amongst all of the fantastic set of quotes from the people 1570 01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:46,680 involved here, I think we've already kind of touched on from 1571 01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:49,680 Anthony's description of it as a racing incident. 1572 01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:52,000 Do you think that was a fair penalty that Reed got? 1573 01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:54,760 I like. The fact that Didier de Bay, who 1574 01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:58,400 obviously is French, was using the term headless chicken, I 1575 01:18:58,400 --> 01:18:59,520 don't know how you say that in French. 1576 01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:04,000 The something or other. It was chicken. 1577 01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:06,920 It was. Definitely fair. 1578 01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:10,560 What's I mean, and he's right because Reed had raced in Japan 1579 01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:12,880 and South Africa and got involved in a few scrapes. 1580 01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:16,200 Fantastic racing driver by the way, and an absolute gentleman 1581 01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:19,680 who we've taken a real liking to meeting him in person at Super 1582 01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:21,320 Touring power. So taking nothing away from 1583 01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:23,920 Anthony Reed and what an ambassador he is still to this 1584 01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:27,280 day to British motor racing. But if you just think of the the 1585 01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:30,960 seasons to come, there was going to be the incident with with 1586 01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:34,640 Rydell at Brands the next year. There was, I mean, there were, 1587 01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:37,320 there would be many. I remember, remember 2004 in in 1588 01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:41,080 the later era of the BTCC at Silverstone when he hit James 1589 01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:43,160 Thompson of the scrape with Matt Neil. 1590 01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:45,680 There's been many, haven't there? 1591 01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:47,760 So yes, to answer your question, bloody Regis. 1592 01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,160 Well, you did there. Yeah, that was a classic. 1593 01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:54,040 Wasn't it? But we must thank. 1594 01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:57,960 Anthony again, because it was a great conclusion to the BB CS 1595 01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:01,440 first ever live coverage. I bet Steve Ryder was rubbing 1596 01:20:01,440 --> 01:20:03,600 his hands together with Glee knowing they're about to come in 1597 01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:05,400 after that. It's exactly what you need for 1598 01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:09,240 some good TV. Absolutely, absolutely. 1599 01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:13,120 And like I say, it's the one thing I remembered exactly when 1600 01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:16,840 we think about this meeting. Yeah, it's Alan calling. 1601 01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:19,480 You know, the guy is crazy. You should think a bit more. 1602 01:20:19,480 --> 01:20:20,920 And there's just really just looking. 1603 01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:23,840 Yeah, very, very sort of innocent and nervous. 1604 01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:25,280 Don't get. He hadn't been in the series for 1605 01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:28,520 long. He probably knew it was on live 1606 01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:30,440 television as well. Oh, for sure. 1607 01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:33,880 And and. Steve just going well, Anthony's 1608 01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:35,960 standing right behind you, Alan. And I was like. 1609 01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:38,400 Here you can hear the smile in Steve's voice. 1610 01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:40,640 He's thinking. He's thinking this. 1611 01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:44,000 Is bloody brilliant, this is. Exactly, exactly. 1612 01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:49,560 It's so funny. But yeah, it, it definitely 1613 01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:51,160 made. And as you've already just 1614 01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:54,280 touched on, Greg really was. I love the man. 1615 01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:56,600 He brought so many brilliant moments to the championship. 1616 01:20:56,600 --> 01:21:00,080 And as you say, he's grown very close to us on the pod as well 1617 01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:02,720 and, and and become a real friend of the pod. 1618 01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:07,920 But he, he was always the centre of drama. 1619 01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:11,360 Rydell, if you remember at Brands, he had a run in with 1620 01:21:11,360 --> 01:21:14,480 Ivan Muller as well. And Muller? 1621 01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:17,240 Muller strangled him at one point at Brands as well, didn't 1622 01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:20,000 he? Oh, in 2003. 2003. 1623 01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:22,480 Yeah, yeah. That meant I didn't want to 1624 01:21:22,480 --> 01:21:24,560 nearly lose his licence for that and nearly lost the 1625 01:21:24,560 --> 01:21:26,320 championship. Yeah, I think he had the 1626 01:21:26,480 --> 01:21:28,240 championship. Points maybe taken off, yeah. 1627 01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:32,600 So Reedy's always been in the centre of attention and I just 1628 01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:33,760 love it. It's brilliant. 1629 01:21:34,200 --> 01:21:38,320 And knowing the man as they do, I can see he he he would have 1630 01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:40,280 loved it as well. Yeah, as a driver. 1631 01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:43,040 You're going to, if you saw him or the, you know, come over the 1632 01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:45,760 radio, OK, Reedy's behind you. You're just going to think. 1633 01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:48,080 Oh yeah. Like. 1634 01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:51,120 Because you're like, I'm gonna have to just defend the whole 1635 01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:54,600 way now because if he's nowhere near like he wasn't in 1636 01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:57,520 particularly anywhere near menu, but still playing into the back 1637 01:21:57,520 --> 01:21:59,400 of him. Yes, It wasn't even it wasn't 1638 01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:01,640 even the overtake at the inside. So I think there's a job 1639 01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:04,200 actually one of those. No, he'd have been one of those 1640 01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:06,520 guys thinking, Oh no, do you know, do. 1641 01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:09,120 You know what this is most similar to with Reedy and a bit 1642 01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:12,000 of panic there? Silverstone 98 when he hit 1643 01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:13,640 Thompson, yes. Abby Hairpin. 1644 01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:15,360 Yes, he was almost. An identical. 1645 01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,480 Moment, actually, yeah, it was. Actually, yeah, you're right. 1646 01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:21,280 With very similar. Effect. 1647 01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:24,800 Yes, there. Was nothing subtle about his 1648 01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:26,680 manoeuvres, wasn't it? Absolutely not. 1649 01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:33,720 What a man. Yeah, once again. 1650 01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:36,280 This is the part of the show where we go to produce the map 1651 01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:40,560 and ask for Matt's facts. How are you, producer Matt, and 1652 01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:43,920 what facts have you got for us in relation to this Brands 97 1653 01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:45,360 meeting? Yeah, I'm good. 1654 01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:47,760 Thanks guys. Yeah, if you think it's a 1655 01:22:48,440 --> 01:22:51,840 difficult meeting to watch, then try writing some facts So and. 1656 01:22:54,240 --> 01:22:55,880 That's all folks, see you next time. 1657 01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:01,400 So Honda. 'S one to finish in the second 1658 01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:05,520 race was not only the first one to finish in BTCC Super Touring, 1659 01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:09,040 it was also their last. They didn't get another one to 1660 01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:14,240 finish in the BTCC until Rockingham in 2000 and three 147 1661 01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:15,840 races later. Wow. 1662 01:23:16,160 --> 01:23:18,080 That's crazy. They did with. 26. 1663 01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:22,360 Races in O1. So this was James. 1664 01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:24,720 Thompson's first win for Honda in the BTCC. 1665 01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:28,000 Over the next three years he'd gone to win a further 9 races, 4 1666 01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:30,680 in 98, four in 99 and one in 2000. 1667 01:23:32,440 --> 01:23:35,280 It was a good day all round for Honda as Rob Gravitt won both 1668 01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:37,800 Independence races this weekend in his Honda Accord. 1669 01:23:38,440 --> 01:23:41,880 Including this round, all of the first four meetings had the same 1670 01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:44,120 driver win both Independence races. 1671 01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:49,280 This would occur 9 times over the 12 meetings of 1997, with 1672 01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:52,240 Colin Galley, Matt Neil and Lee Brooks joining Gravitt in the 1673 01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:57,440 achievement. Alamenu's fourth place in Race 2 1674 01:23:57,440 --> 01:24:00,240 was the only time all season that you finished in the points, 1675 01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:03,320 but off of the podium. He had one retirement at Knock 1676 01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:06,600 Hill and the rogue 17th place finish at Thruxton after a loose 1677 01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:08,680 wheel. Wow, that's that's. 1678 01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:13,320 That's was Menu's consistency combined with a good debut year 1679 01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:16,520 for Jason Plato. Renault scored 30 podiums in 1680 01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:19,400 1997. To put that in perspective, 1681 01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:24,560 despite having two races more in 1999, Nissan only managed 28 1682 01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:27,760 podiums that year. Even more impressively, 1683 01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:31,840 Renault's tally was only four, podium shy of Ford's 2000 tally, 1684 01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:34,560 with their three drivers for half that's. 1685 01:24:34,640 --> 01:24:36,080 Interesting as well. Yeah, and some. 1686 01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:38,560 Amazing. I think when? 1687 01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:42,120 People sort of think about dominant years in the BTCC. 1688 01:24:42,120 --> 01:24:44,760 You think about Nissan in 99 and Ford in 2000. 1689 01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:49,960 You do kind of forget about Renault, and that just shows 1690 01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:54,720 incredible consistency and that that was just real domination, 1691 01:24:55,480 --> 01:24:59,360 yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 1692 01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:02,760 Yeah, yeah. Hats off to Williams as well 1693 01:25:02,760 --> 01:25:05,680 because you could argue this was the absolute height of Williams 1694 01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:07,000 wasn't it? Because they were winning in 1695 01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:09,800 Formula One that had so many titles the years before with 1696 01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:12,880 Mansell and Prost and Neely with Damon. 1697 01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:16,520 And then they did get it with Damon and in 97 they won with 1698 01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:21,080 Villeneuve and with Menu. So a real high for for William. 1699 01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:30,120 That just about wraps up our deep dive into the 1997 BTCC 1700 01:25:30,120 --> 01:25:34,080 races at Brands Hatch, the first to be broadcast live on BBC 1701 01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:36,880 Grandstand. It was a landmark moment for 1702 01:25:36,880 --> 01:25:40,600 touring Cars, bringing the drama, intensity and door to 1703 01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:44,520 door action of the BTCC to a nationwide audience like never 1704 01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:46,920 before. Just a shame it was one of the 1705 01:25:46,920 --> 01:25:50,640 worst races of the season. Our thanks. 1706 01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:53,120 Go, of course, to our guest this evening, Greg Haynes. 1707 01:25:53,320 --> 01:25:55,800 Thank you for joining us, Greg, and we hope you'll be on Stories 1708 01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:57,480 from Super Touring again very soon. 1709 01:25:58,040 --> 01:25:59,320 Me too. Thank you very much. 1710 01:26:01,040 --> 01:26:03,560 You will be joining us again this season and at some point, 1711 01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:06,640 Greg, I know. So we look forward to having you 1712 01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:08,200 on again. Yeah, thanks. 1713 01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:11,840 Everyone, it's been a pleasure as always and just reminds us 1714 01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:13,520 how old we all are. But thank you. 1715 01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:15,800 Yeah, very true. Very, very true. 1716 01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:18,400 Our thanks as. Ever go to you guys for 1717 01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:21,520 listening to the show and if you enjoyed today's episode, please 1718 01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:25,440 make sure to give us some review five star rating and subscribe 1719 01:26:25,440 --> 01:26:28,360 to podcast feed on your podcast at the choice. 1720 01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:31,360 In the meantime, we will see you next week. 1721 01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:32,160 Goodbye.