1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:18,260 Stories from Super Touring. Hello and welcome to this week's 2 00:00:18,260 --> 00:00:20,980 episode of Stories from Super Touring. 3 00:00:21,620 --> 00:00:24,420 Now we've got another brilliant guest lined up for you this 4 00:00:24,420 --> 00:00:26,620 week. And let's face it, he's a bit of 5 00:00:26,620 --> 00:00:30,840 a touring car legend. Matt Neil was an independent 6 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:35,560 superstar during the era of Super Touring between 1991 and 7 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:40,160 2000, and he was one of the few drivers to race in every single 8 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:44,280 season of that era. He then went on to win three 9 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,600 BTCC titles in the future. So I'd like to welcome touring 10 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,920 car legend Matt Neil to stories from Super Touring. 11 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,920 Matt, thank you so much for joining us on the show. 12 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,120 How are you? Yeah, I'm good. 13 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,800 I do think I look like I've got no ears on here. 14 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,640 But where the cameras cut me back. 15 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:08,840 Yeah, they are here. That's good, good, but no thanks 16 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,800 for coming on the show. And, and first of all, on behalf 17 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:16,000 of all of us here at the show and at at the blog, we'd like to 18 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,200 offer our condolences for the loss of Steve Neil, your father, 19 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,960 last year. Is it fair to say that you're 20 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:28,840 racing bug originally came from from Steve and I'm I'm sure a 21 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,600 character like that it it. You can't help but get that bug 22 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,760 from him. I think I had yeah. 23 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:41,960 And no, I think I had the bug. Anyway, it's never really sort 24 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:46,800 of, it just sort of happened with with with dad passing, as a 25 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,400 lot of people have experienced. The one time it really sort of 26 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,760 hit me was literally we were driving back from Good Revival 27 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:59,240 last last weekend and it's a long drive back from any to 28 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,960 anywhere from Goodwood, you know, down on the South Coast. 29 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,080 And I'm in the in the car on the way back. 30 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,039 And I just thought I need to phone dad, tell him how I got 31 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:11,120 on. And that's when it's sort of 32 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,440 like, you know, he's not there because he was always like, even 33 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,960 if he wasn't with me, all the British stuff, he'd be with me, 34 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,360 the foreign stuff. He went to Bathurst a couple of 35 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,880 times. But the rest of the time I was 36 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,840 sort of mainly on my own. But I would always report in 37 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:32,200 because he was such an, we were a partnership, you know, and he 38 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:33,720 would push me, he'd give me a hard time. 39 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,400 He wasn't, he didn't suffer falls gladly or failure gladly. 40 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,120 So it's, I do miss him. You've got to get on with it. 41 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:48,600 But he was, he was such a driven person, you know, second was the 42 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,200 the first of the losers to him. Yeah, definitely. 43 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,040 I I do recall an incident, I think it was at Donington in 44 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,800 2000 where I think you missed a pit lane call and he came on the 45 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:59,600 radio and gave you a right bollock in for it. 46 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,280 And it was, it came up on the BBC coverage and it was funny. 47 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,880 But but yeah, that was that was your relationship, I guess. 48 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,040 It's a lot. There was a long story, I won't 49 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,680 go into it, but we went to Bathurst in 98 in the, in the 50 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:17,400 Nessen and we weren't meant to even the longest an engine had 51 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:18,680 lasted. And then this and that year was 52 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:24,160 600K and the race is 1000 K and we ran the Volvo all the way and 53 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,800 you know, we lost by second. We were all euphoric that we got 54 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,600 a second place in a podium and blah blah blah. 55 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,120 And we'd finished the race and you know all the rest of it. 56 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,080 He was so angry that we were happy to be second. 57 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,560 He burst a blood vessel in his eye and he claimed, claimed he 58 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,720 gone blind. So we were all going down the 59 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,800 league club partying and he was like sat in a chair fuming in 60 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,920 this house we'd we'd rented like because he was so upset about 61 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:52,000 it. That's brilliant. 62 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,240 So where did your motorsport career start then? 63 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,120 Where? Where did you take your first 64 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,720 tentative steps into the sport? You know, it's the old cliche, 65 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,400 it's everything you wanted to do since you were four years old. 66 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,320 And that's what I can remember, all I wanted to do. 67 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,920 I think my dad had retired by the time I was sort of old 68 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:13,080 enough. I mean, the only memories I've 69 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,279 got my dad racing is I think he got brought back from it. 70 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,320 I think it was either Brand's actual Nurburgring and he was in 71 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,080 pieces, he is free or something. And he got bandage over his 72 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,160 thing and some blacks propped up against the front door all in 73 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,600 bits and then scarp it in the calf from my mom. 74 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,640 And he was laying on the bed with a patch over his eye and 75 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,600 his ominous sling. And I was about two years old. 76 00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:39,480 And that's the last thing I can remember of him racing that in 77 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:44,040 the 1976 British GP, he did a celebrity race in in Mark, Mark 78 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:49,200 One or Mark 2 Escorts. And I can remember that. 79 00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:51,880 And he spun out and my mum's standing in the grandstand 80 00:04:52,160 --> 00:05:00,720 screaming. But yeah, for me, because he 81 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,640 took us to big races like the Grand Prix when you could get in 82 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,360 affordably in the Tourist Trophy and that sort of stuff. 83 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,080 And he used to sneak us in the book of the car so you could 84 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:10,840 sneak in without paying and all the rest of it. 85 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:15,160 And when Silverstone was a plowed fields, you know, in the 86 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:19,760 centre and I remember that and going to Alton Park and getting, 87 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,680 you know, looking through the fence and getting autographs 88 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,320 from Brian Muir and Stuart Graham and and, you know, Gordon 89 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,520 Spice and all the rest of them. That gave me the bug. 90 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:35,960 And then I sort of got to 17. I was, because my size, I was 91 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,800 very good at rugby at the time and I just wanted to race. 92 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:43,240 All I wanted to do is race. But I left school at 17, got a 93 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,240 job and was earning. So bought a, bought a motocross 94 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,640 bike for £500 and I went off doing motocross because it's 95 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,720 the, it's the biggest adrenaline rush for the smallest budget you 96 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,560 can do. And you know that's what I did, 97 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,760 put a trailer on the back of my car and I got and I did for that 98 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:05,960 for the next 4 years and then my dad literally got me into a car 99 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,800 just to get me away from the bikes so I didn't bounce. 100 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,920 Yeah, bikes tend to scare parents quite a bit, don't they? 101 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,400 Yeah, the, the, The funny thing was or not funny thing, it's 102 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,560 funny now. At 19 years old I ended up in 103 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,200 Birmingham Accident Hospital in traction, in the bed next to my 104 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,080 dad in the same ward, in the bed next to where my dad had been 105 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,560 when he was 19 years old for a similar motorbike accident. 106 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:30,800 So. All right, well, I. 107 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,560 Think that's when it dawned on them they've got to get me off 2 108 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,440 wheels. I love bikes, but bikes don't 109 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:36,720 love me. I've still got a couple in the 110 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,120 back of here which which you probably can't see. 111 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:44,440 So once you were gently suggested to go into car racing 112 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,760 after the bikes, then you were very good at it often the outset 113 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,920 and you went into the group pen championship and won two class 114 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,320 titles. At that point. 115 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,200 Was it sort of, was it something that came naturally going into 116 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,000 cars from bikes? Was that something you had to 117 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,000 develop over sort of the the first year or two of you car 118 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:09,800 racing? I think just before the group 119 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:14,800 and I got into Group One make racing and he he he bought an 120 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,080 old Fiesta, an old challenge car, which is there. 121 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,200 I mean, they have 3 or 4 grand, then it's a different great, 122 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:21,640 it's a different gravy to it is now. 123 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:27,080 And not, not with a view to go racing just to get me away from 124 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,880 the bikes. We're just going to go track it 125 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,040 and all the rest of that. And I remember going to 126 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,760 Silverstone and I got my dad's old BMC overalls, 2 piece 127 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:42,040 overalls, one piece overalls, no mix from 1960s, which didn't fit 128 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,720 because he's smaller than me. And I'm going around there. 129 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,440 And then still Silverstone stood picking me up because I've done 130 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,080 something wrong. And it was like, you don't know 131 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,760 because no one, there's no YouTube then there's no Internet 132 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,800 then. So you just you, you find out as 133 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:01,000 you go along. And we did two years in two 134 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,480 years with Goodliff. Then he then he knew something 135 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,880 Jeff Goodliff, an old friend of his who was running fiestas in 136 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,320 one make championships. So I went along with them and we 137 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,680 had two good years with them and sort of learnt a bit of my 138 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:19,080 craft, which I say some people going now racing one makes is a 139 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,360 fantastic proving ground because it teaches you spatial 140 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,680 awareness. And so people who are around you 141 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,360 teach you to look after yourself. 142 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,840 Really it's it's a school of Hard Knocks, but it it's a good 143 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,640 proving ground. And then sort of that leap 144 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,679 frogged me. We, we never had massive money 145 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,760 because my dad's company went bust on my 18th birthday. 146 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,280 And so we were, we were building the company up, but we just, we 147 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,200 went to each of our suppliers. We were starting with the wheel 148 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,920 business and we were trying to just tap them up about £500 here 149 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,000 and £1000 here. And, you know, just anything 150 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:58,640 that we could just to make a budget. 151 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:04,360 But the budget was, you know, 4688 grand for the year. 152 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,080 Yeah, it was. It wasn't anything like today 153 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,080 and we could make it up, but that's what we do. 154 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,720 And then as the company, the wheel company was growing and as 155 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:19,920 it was growing, we managed to extort or coerce or encourage a 156 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,600 little bit more money out of each of the suppliers and 157 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:27,280 partners and try and get some external sponsorship, which as 158 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,600 my career grew up and the budgets grew, it sort of grew 159 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,000 with us. Good. 160 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,520 So Matt, so when you went into BTCC for the first time, that 161 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,360 was in 91, wasn't it? And that was a British GP 162 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,040 support race and you did that with Pyramid Motorsport. 163 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,280 So he was alongside of the legendary Frank Sitner, who was 164 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:44,560 in the championship for some time. 165 00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:46,800 How did that all come about to go from what you were doing 166 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,760 there and to all of a sudden your first BTC, the GP support 167 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,480 race of all you know? I think I'd had a, I'd been 168 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,960 doing. I'd done 1990 in A and won the 169 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:03,360 clock. It's when you had the structure, 170 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,440 you had Group A which was the touring cars, which was the 171 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,080 pinnacle, then you had Group N beneath that which which was 172 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,480 almost a production saloon formula. 173 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,640 But they were both really supported by manufacturers and 174 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,200 I'd done well and I'd won, won my class in a BM WM3. 175 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:27,400 So, and you suddenly you were on BMWs radar or the manufacturer's 176 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,320 radar because they were looking for young talent. 177 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,200 It's a completely different world to it is now because if 178 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,280 you, you proved yourself, then you were spotted and then you'd 179 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,800 get tests and you, you could make a good living out of it. 180 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,840 And totally different to it is now. 181 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,600 And I got on the BMW radar in 1990 and then I moved to a 182 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:52,800 Skyline, Nissan Skyline in 91, but I was still on BMW's radar. 183 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,000 So they offered me a junior team test. 184 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,040 Was it 90 or 1991? I think it was. 185 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:06,600 And there was me menu, Michael Bartles, Ronaldo Capello, There 186 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,680 was a bunch of us, Patrick Hoisman all went and some of us 187 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:12,480 got it, some of us didn't. I didn't get it. 188 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,160 And so but I was still on the BMW radar. 189 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:21,880 So we had an affinity with BMW. There were, I think the M3 was 190 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,720 the, you know, people were coming out with the Toyotas or 191 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,280 the Vauxhalls or any, you know, other stuff at that point. 192 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:33,240 And the M3 was, it had been around for a couple of years in 193 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,360 BTC, the two litre rigs. And it was a cheap and easy way 194 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,200 into it. And some teams had spare cars 195 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,320 and Pyramid had a spare car because Godfrey Hall had been 196 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,080 running it and still owned the car. 197 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:49,200 And we just got a really, really good deal to run at the Grand 198 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,920 Prix. And it was it was literally 199 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:55,160 again, we went to everyone we knew to make up the budget from 200 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,240 aluminium surprise box. We even got British Gas chipping 201 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,200 in some money and but. It was a good event for you to 202 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:03,400 sell that to sponsors, wasn't it? 203 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:04,760 Is that is the cheapest support race? 204 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,560 I mean, we've been on to gown now that you know, it's yeah, 205 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,160 you do get treated like shit when you're there. 206 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:14,480 By F1. It is. 207 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:16,240 Well, it was Bernie back then though, wasn't it? 208 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,560 Yeah. And I do think it was a it was a 209 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,200 an asset to the whole event in F1 as well, because it was 210 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,400 almost like everyone could be a boring race. 211 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,200 And then bring on the clowns and we'll have have some fun, you 212 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,560 know, watch it all kick off. And it did, you know in 92, at 213 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:37,520 the end of the last race, you know, the last race of the 214 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:38,680 season, it probably did kick off. 215 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,120 You came back later in that season in 91 for more one off 216 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,760 drives with BRR Motorsport and Tech Speed as well. 217 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,120 I'm guessing at that point you kind of had an idea. 218 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,920 British Touring Car Championship was was what you wanted to aim 219 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,600 for, for your future. You know, some of these, these 220 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,560 kids now, they go right, I'm going to get to F1, I'm going to 221 00:12:57,560 --> 00:12:59,280 get to touring cars, I'm going to get this. 222 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:00,840 And they've set the sights really high. 223 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,840 I never did that when I was doing motocross. 224 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,560 I was happy doing motocross and all I wanted to do was do the 225 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:14,040 best I could in the category I was when I was in Fiestas, same 226 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,240 when I was in and it was my dad pushing me a bit. 227 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,280 So I do think you need to be pushed out your comfort zone. 228 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,400 And I was never good at that. I was happy in my comfort zone. 229 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,760 So touring cars was the probably the next step. 230 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:32,200 And I and I idolized it, but I never thought I'd get there 231 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,040 ever. But I'd get there never, let 232 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,440 alone raced it, winning it or win a championship in it. 233 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:40,880 That was completely off the radar. 234 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:46,120 And so opportunities came up and, you know, we got a, we got 235 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,920 an opportunity. My dad spoke to to to Victoria 236 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:53,080 Lee and then opportunity came for the car and it was we got 237 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:59,600 some sponsorship in and two and two together and yeah, got 6, 238 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:06,160 but it worked out and you know, the 92 could have been a whole 239 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,920 lot better with the car. We got the car package we 240 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,840 started the season with was mega and did all the preseason 241 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:14,960 testing. Then we got a bit, we got a bit 242 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,760 shafted at the beginning of the year which which was 243 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,640 unfortunate, but just with the engines and everything about. 244 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,800 It's a beautiful car. That entry with the silver and 245 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,160 black livery is one of my favourites of the of the era 111 246 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:30,600 thing that interested me. I is you could have ended up in 247 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:35,360 an A Curia cost Cavalier that year in 92, but you didn't. 248 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,960 There's there's a little story behind that. 249 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:39,880 How do you know that I? Can't remember. 250 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:45,800 End of 91 or the back end of 91. Rare Malec phonia and I, I 251 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,280 didn't know who Ray was. I literally now with my 252 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,880 experience and everything, you know, you know things, but I 253 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,040 didn't because my dad had got being completely out of the 254 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,560 sport for 10-15 years. And Ray found me up and said, 255 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:02,280 oh, we've been watching you in Group N and we think you're all 256 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:03,840 right. And we'd love to run you 257 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,080 alongside David Leslie in the Curie Costco. 258 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,200 I didn't know who the hell Ray was. 259 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,760 And I went, Oh, I think my dad sorted something out with 260 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,000 Victoria and I'm all right. And I'm like this. 261 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:20,040 And now we go, Oh, one of the opportunities in in my racing 262 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,040 career, I roof and never driving for Ray because I'd have loved 263 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:27,520 that NAR ML but and they could have could have changed the way 264 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,880 my career went. But say la vie. 265 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:46,600 So I mean that that year there is a fleet, a famous flashpoint 266 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,680 at, at Knock Hill, you and Colin McRae, who was doing a guest 267 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,800 drive for BMW up there. You, you and him had a bit of a, 268 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,080 well, I mean, it wasn't you and him. 269 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,120 He blatantly shoved you off the track. 270 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,600 And then the rumour is he went hiding from your dad in the 271 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,560 paddock after the race because Steve wasn't best pleased. 272 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,160 Yeah, it wasn't very happy. I mean, I mean, that was monsoon 273 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:14,760 rain that weekend and Colin had been drafted in and for because 274 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:20,120 he was a massive draw. And what people forget is, is 275 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,720 back then the big advantage the BMWs had is they just developed 276 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:29,400 this racing ABS system, which no one had at that point, which is 277 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,120 completely different to a road system. 278 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:37,480 And it wasn't adaptive. So you literally had different 279 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,640 chips you had to put in for different weather conditions. 280 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:47,360 And as a privateer, we had one chip, which was one chip and it 281 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,280 was one-size-fits-all. And, and at the factory cars 282 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,120 they had, there are multiple ones they could use. 283 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,960 And so they had a, you know, the deep weather and I think in the 284 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:02,880 dry pollen struggled a little bit and in the way he obviously 285 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,040 came alive with his, with his, you know, the skill he's got 286 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,319 with a loose car and all the rest of it. 287 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,480 And so he's coming through the field, found me. 288 00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:14,440 And then you sometimes, you know, the professional way you 289 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,720 get someone, you just unsettle their rear end, then you ease 290 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:19,960 them out and then you go through. 291 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,240 He wasn't happy with that. He just unsettled my rear end 292 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,400 and then just kept on drilling me till he pushed me out the 293 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,319 race. And that pissed me off, to be 294 00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:30,400 fair. And it was presumably 295 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,720 unnecessary. He'd have been through anyway, 296 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,320 but he just just. But that was him afterwards, the 297 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:42,200 arrogance of, well, I don't care because I'm not here and because 298 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,160 Dr. pull some strings and everything, you hadn't even got 299 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,080 a race license. But when they tried to ban him 300 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,960 or do him, they hadn't even got a race license to put points on. 301 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,120 That was the crux. Of that's crazy. 302 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,120 You know, I mean, Can you imagine that happening now? 303 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,000 Yeah, because after the race he was quoted as saying, well, I 304 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,720 thought that's what Torian Cars was about anyway. 305 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,560 It was so he's arrogance of it, so fuck him. 306 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,400 So with the controversy surrounding Victoria Lee and 307 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,400 Victoria Lee Motorsport towards the end of the night two season, 308 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:16,040 your dad and Ray Bell bought the assets of Victoria Lee 309 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,640 Motorsport and Creatives Team Dynamics, which obviously is a 310 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,520 very household name in the sport now. 311 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:28,120 And with that, run yourself, Andre and Alex Portman for the 312 00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:31,000 majority of the season. How was that in terms of the 313 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:35,160 transition from obviously the budget should be, you know, did 314 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,400 that bring more budget? Did that bring sort of better 315 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,960 assistance for running yourself and other drivers in the team? 316 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,640 I think they had a promise there was. 317 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:50,240 Ray set it up and my dad went with it and Steve said was 318 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,000 involved as well because they said get us because BMW were 319 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,760 obviously had a sniff at the championship in 92 with with Tim 320 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,600 Harvey. And they said get us to the end 321 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:01,920 of the year. You know, we've got to get rid 322 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:07,040 of this Victoria Lee's stigma or VLM stigma back then. 323 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,080 And guess in the year we'll crack at the championship and 324 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,280 which obviously I'm good. And then we'll look for a 325 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,440 factory team factory till next year. 326 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,240 So they won the championship, which is happy days, right? 327 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,240 And then they just pulled the plug at the end of the year. 328 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:26,120 So Ray, my dad and Sopa got shafted a bit by BMW. 329 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,680 That's life, unfortunately so. But the team was there and he's 330 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,040 existed. They got the cars or or bases of 331 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,240 the cars. And so we came back in, in 93. 332 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:45,520 But the problem was then is it was such a super Touring. 333 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,440 It was the start of it. It was such a fast moving 334 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:55,640 environment for development and it was a tire war back then. 335 00:19:55,640 --> 00:20:01,240 So you had Michelin V Dunlop V Yokohama V Pirelli and we got, 336 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:08,600 we're on Michelin tyres I think. And but you had the factory cars 337 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,720 and you had privateer cars and because we weren't a factory 338 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,120 team, they wouldn't let you have the same tyres as the factory 339 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:17,200 cars. So same brand. 340 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,160 But not the same compound A. 100% and literally it would be 341 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,360 two seconds of that difference. So it could be the meaning the 342 00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:26,280 difference of you being on the front of the grid and the back 343 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,600 of the grid. And and you'd you'd see them in 344 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,560 the truck when you go up to them and you go, I want them, those 345 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:33,800 ones there. No, you can't have them. 346 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,560 You can have these shitters we got around the back. 347 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,680 Yeah. Big, huge ones they own. 348 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,120 We laugh about it now. No, they're brand new. 349 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,440 You make all the old compounds because they just that was your 350 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:46,640 place. That's what you got. 351 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:51,240 And we, we just never got the tires same way as in I signed 352 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:56,000 for Mazda in in 94, which was which I thought were great. 353 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,760 Happy days. Patrick had gone well in it in 354 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:03,120 93 and we were on Yoki's. Yoki was not a bad tyre. 355 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,720 Toyota was the factory team on Yoki's we got, even though we 356 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,480 were a factory master team, we weren't allowed the same tyres 357 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,440 as Toyota. So it was just shit. 358 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,640 Now it's the it's the tyres depicting everything. 359 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,040 Yeah, why? Because it's, I mean, we'll talk 360 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,880 about it in depth later on, I'm sure, but the first race you won 361 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,040 outright was the first time you guys were allowed the same tires 362 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,760 as the works time. Yeah, that was Goward in in 99. 363 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,360 Obviously I people don't remember. 364 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:37,800 I won 250 grand for first private tier winning a race for 365 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:43,320 a long time and before that we'd never been allowed the same 366 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:48,000 tires as the factory teams. But so and Goward insured 367 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:54,080 against this happening, but he what he'd failed to tell the 368 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,320 insurance company was he was changing the regulations that 369 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,600 we'd have the same tyres and we won the first round and they 370 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:01,240 weren't happy. I can. 371 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,000 Imagine. They weren't happy at all. 372 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,960 Oh, I bet that felt good. I bet that felt good. 373 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,120 Well, I. We ran because Nissan, we ran 374 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:17,080 with Nissan in Bathurst in 98. They let us have a sort of a 375 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:22,520 bits of a car out of an enemy Miss Motor Sport Europe and we 376 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,600 were allowed to run the factory tyres down there and really had 377 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,400 left at the end of 98 to go to Ford. 378 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,480 And Alec Paul who was the head of Miss Motor Sport Europe, he 379 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:37,320 was proper smarting about it because really was was the 380 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,080 fastest driver. You know, he had been the 381 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,760 fastest driver to that point and he just had the edge over David 382 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:48,240 Leslie and I went to to Alec and I went mate, don't worry. 383 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,760 The car's good because I tried these. 384 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,320 I we ran on these tyres and I went mate, there's these, these 385 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,680 type this, the car's mega tyres mega. 386 00:22:57,360 --> 00:22:59,680 So don't worry, don't worry. You're losing Reed you, you've 387 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,680 got a good package. That's when I threw my cap in 388 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,600 the ring to try and get the drive that ILO got. 389 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,080 And now that one I I threw my cap in the head because they 390 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,800 they were the standard wage for a Nissan driver. 391 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,720 There's a lot of drivers. Nissan, the standard right wage 392 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,680 was 300 grand back then. You're talking 25 years ago. 393 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,560 And I, I went to Alec and I said, I'll tell you what, I'm so 394 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:27,920 confident in my ability and what I can do and I can win. 395 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,520 I will drive for you for nothing or I'll give you my wage. 396 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,880 And he ended up signing Laurent ILO for 750 grand. 397 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,920 And I went back to my dad. I said I can't understand it, 398 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,600 why he done that. He said because if he signs 399 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,480 Laurent for that money and Lauren fucks up, it is Lauren's 400 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,360 problem. If he signs you for nothing and 401 00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:52,000 you fuck up, it's his problem. And I get that. 402 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,600 I, I got it. I got it and I didn't like it, 403 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,200 but I got it, you know, so. And Lauren did win for him so. 404 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,960 Matt, just to go back a little bit, so in 93, obviously that 405 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,280 was your first independent championship and obviously you 406 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,920 have to see, I think Carney is cavalier for that as well. 407 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,840 Was that like really a joyous, obviously would have been a 408 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,280 joyous moment, but how did that feel for you? 409 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,200 Like to actually do it to prove it on that stage thing, right? 410 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,280 I'm here, I'm Matt Neil and I'm here today. 411 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,040 Was it a really momentous occasion for you? 412 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,120 I'd like to say yes, but I always thought they, rightly or 413 00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:32,480 wrongly, that the, the independence thing is, is sort 414 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,880 of a second class citizen. And I, I did it and I, I got it 415 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,360 and I embraced it and everything. 416 00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:42,960 But I did think, yeah, yeah. Which is where I always got into 417 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,520 trouble later on in my in the in my career in touring cars 418 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,240 because, yes, we would be going for privateer wins, but not I'd 419 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,960 go right. What do you want me to go for? 420 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,440 Do you want me to get this high up at the ladder as we can or do 421 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,720 you want me to just sit back? And, you know, we're happy that 422 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,960 we're 15th and beating the guys behind us. 423 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,160 And I was never happy because I I went into touring cars because 424 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,520 I wanted to drive against the best. 425 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,520 I wanted to try and beat the best and see how good I was. 426 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,360 Yeah, it was great winning the Pro Tears, but it was a bit of a 427 00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:15,400 it's. Almost our job done. 428 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,480 Take the box off and then now give me a works drive. 429 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,200 I'm here. It wasn't a hollow victory. 430 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,200 It was, it was just like, yeah, OK, that's great, but that's not 431 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,880 what I'm after. Even back then, that's, yeah, 432 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,360 even back then that was relevant, That was prevalent in 433 00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:29,600 your mind then. You know, I'm, I'm aiming for 434 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,720 higher than that. That's that's interesting. 435 00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:34,800 You know, because you're so dictated by the equipment you've 436 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,200 got. And then, you know, when I 437 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,080 suddenly started qualifying at the front, I remember David 438 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,000 Leslie coming up to me again. Oh, you have to be careful now. 439 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,400 It's a lot tougher at this end of the grid. 440 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,720 It was easy it. Was easier because you're not 441 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,240 in. The middle of people's space, 442 00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:51,720 Yeah. In the in the in the middle of 443 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,240 the grid, it's. Horrible. 444 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,560 It's like. Spinnacle fist fighting yeah, 445 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,440 yeah, it's it's horrendous getting involved in someone 446 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,600 else's accident yeah, yeah, it's at least you can drive your own 447 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,480 race and people can normally give people, you know, each 448 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,880 other space and everything you're sure that all the cameras 449 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,440 are on you, but. So you must have thought then 450 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,600 that, I mean you've already touched on it, the Mazda move, 451 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,920 but you moved there in 94. But there were at the start of 452 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,880 the year there were all these rumours of IMG and Noel Edmonds 453 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,000 and Crinkly Bottom and Mr. Blobby and David Coulthard. 454 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,160 I'm not calling David Coulthard Mr. Blobby there, but I mean, 455 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,280 how close was all that to fruition? 456 00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:32,840 It never happened, but some some tale, some tell the story that 457 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,680 it was very close. That was 99% done. 458 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:36,840 That. Deal. 459 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,600 It's crazy. Well, Mr. Blobby was just a buzz 460 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,080 thing at the time, wasn't it? And no. 461 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:47,880 Yeah, behind it. And I I Ng or INGI can't 462 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,560 remember. The IMG was IMG. 463 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:57,280 Yeah, IMG, they were, were pushing DC, the Mazda and I'd 464 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,920 signed because I had some, some personal sponsorship I was 465 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,040 bringing with me, which I've managed to carry over. 466 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,840 So I, I, I came as a package and that was good. 467 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,240 And they were pushing DC to partner me and it was all the 468 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,360 thing. And then Mazda went no, because 469 00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:17,160 he'd had three tough years in, in F3000. 470 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,840 And I said, no, we want a proven touring car, you know, 471 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,560 protagonist, which was David Leslie. 472 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:27,520 And so they said we'll go with David. 473 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,720 I think it was the best, it was the luckiest escape DC ever in 474 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,400 his life because, you know, it it they they managed to get him 475 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,360 into a test drive with Williams. And then Senna was Senna was 476 00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:41,320 killed a year later and he was, he was up and away or that. 477 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:42,640 Yeah, wasn't he so? Yes, it was. 478 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,000 Then he went on to an amazing F1 career, so I think it was the 479 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,920 luckiest of his racing career because me and David got put 480 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,600 down the dungeon in the Mazda for a for a year. 481 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,960 On on the note of that, Master, if you say it wasn't the most 482 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:03,040 competitive car in the world, which I'm guessing if you sort 483 00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:05,560 of already touched on, was probably a little bit of a shock 484 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,880 given how or Patrick had done the year before in that lovely 485 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,280 liveries beast in 93 it. Was very close to Mr. Blobby 486 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,080 that car actually the purple and yellow. 487 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,320 And then unfortunately, I did a big shot at Silverstone and that 488 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,400 was you out for the rest of the season. 489 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,840 I mean, how bad was that shunt and your injuries following that 490 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,200 crash? Yeah, the IT. 491 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,600 Was a proper shunt, wasn't it? It was quite a big shunt. 492 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:38,560 Is is two or three weeks before that we were racing at 493 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,880 Snatterton and I remember it well because it was the same 494 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:48,880 weekend and Senna was killed and I was in qualifying and I rolled 495 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:54,040 it at the first corner into there's farmers fields all 496 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,520 around Snatterton. And that year they were growing 497 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,400 potatoes in on the exit of Term 1. 498 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,720 And I can remember because when I'm lying in the the furrows, I 499 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:12,320 rolled in qualifying and I'm upside down in the car waiting 500 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,840 for Marshalls to come because you're a long way off in the 501 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,680 furrows, so you can't. So you're in the furrows, the, 502 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,240 the, the, the plowed furrows. So you can't get the door open. 503 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,280 And the fuel pumps are racing as well. 504 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,760 And so I'm panicking. If thing catches fire, I'm stuck 505 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,160 in there. And you know, because you sat on 506 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,640 the roof and that was quite a scary time for me. 507 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,920 And anyway, I always used to have a lucky pair of of 508 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,320 underpants and if it was a really hot like that was a hot 509 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,840 weekend, so we now they check you. 510 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,680 But if it was a really hot weekend, I never used to. 511 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:49,560 I used to wear my fireproof top, but not the the the long Johns 512 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,640 and my sister had bought me years before. 513 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,840 It's a Christmas present, a pair of boxer shorts which are flesh 514 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,000 coloured with stocking suspenders on them as a bit of a 515 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,200 party joke. Anyway, I'd I'd, I'd wear I'd 516 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,400 bought. I'm really, I'm annoyingly 517 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,560 superstitious and I'd worn these and I'd had a couple of good 518 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,480 results in them. So these have become my lucky 519 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,720 underpants. So I was wearing these anyway, 520 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,480 they got me out of the car and all the rest of it off to the 521 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,200 Med centre and these nurses and they strip you down to your 522 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,720 waist and they check out your and all these nurses around me 523 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,560 and they'll go, right, let's strip you all off and we'll just 524 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,240 check you out. And I went, no, no, I don't 525 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,320 think that's a good idea. And they went, no, it's all 526 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,640 right, we're all grown up here, we're OK. 527 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,600 I went, no, no, seriously, because these things have become 528 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,280 so threadbare. All the block and tackle is 529 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,640 would anger at the bottom. Like there was no boxes to the 530 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,240 boxes. And I had to go into the store 531 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:50,000 and explain to them why. And they said, OK, we get it, 532 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,600 we'll let you keep your bottles off. 533 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,040 Anyway, I was wearing these lucky lucky boxes at Silverstone 534 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,280 two or three weeks later when I got tipped over and barrel 535 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,560 rolled down to maggots. So was that the last time you 536 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,920 wore the boxer shorts? I took the fuckers off. 537 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,440 I threw them in the. I had a funny feeling we're 538 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,040 going to say that. But you know something, you know 539 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,240 something in hindsight, because I'm superstitious. 540 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,000 I walked away from the accident. So did they do their job? 541 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,680 Yes, they did, yeah. And do you look a bit like that? 542 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,160 So now anyway, I've got another pair of like you should pants 543 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,840 down and socks and tops and everything. 544 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,920 So I'm, I'm annoyingly superstitious like that. 545 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,240 I can't even remember where you started. 546 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,480 But the question was but I, yeah. 547 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,000 Yeah, yeah. How were? 548 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,360 You, I was all right. I was, I was Apparently you've 549 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,720 got cartilage in when you represent everything I told 550 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,040 that's all that. So I was, I was in a bad way. 551 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,800 I couldn't get out of bed for no, I'm not brilliant at getting 552 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,840 out of bed, but I couldn't get out of bed for a few weeks 553 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,200 afterwards. It was, I was pretty sore, but 554 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,360 we got out for the last race of the season, so I wouldn't have 555 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,840 been able to race anyway. The car was a ball of scrap and 556 00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:00,800 Mazda didn't. The budget was so tight, you 557 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,120 know, for them back then, they didn't have the money to repair 558 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:05,720 it because it literally was a ball of scrap. 559 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,360 The only thing salvageable on the car was the the dash. 560 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:15,600 Everything was buggered. So yeah, they managed and they 561 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,720 managed to get a, we got a bit of sponsorship together again 562 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,440 and we, they built A323 for the end of the season. 563 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,080 But it was, it was overweight and it was heavy and it was, it 564 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,480 was got out for the World Cup with Mazda, but it was, you're 565 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,040 making up the numbers really. And on the wrong tire again. 566 00:32:42,390 --> 00:32:45,030 Hey guys, it's Matt Clawson, your host of the All Automotive 567 00:32:45,030 --> 00:32:47,110 Podcast. I've been in the automotive 568 00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:50,350 industry for over 30 years. I've owned my own repair shop 569 00:32:50,350 --> 00:32:53,760 for the last 15 years. I was going to write a book, but 570 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,560 I started this podcast instead. So come join me for my take on 571 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,400 vehicle extended service contracts or what to look for 572 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,880 when purchasing used vehicle like and subscribe to the All 573 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,920 Automotive podcast. We're on Apple Podcasts, 574 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,080 Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. 575 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,240 In 95 then Matt, it was your turn back with Dynamics. 576 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,160 Yeah, that seems to be a good year for you, Carl. 577 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,160 Yeah, it's it's amazing the way life takes you, isn't it? 578 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,800 Because I thought I got there's probably a half a dozen points 579 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,240 in my career. I thought it was all over and 580 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,360 forget it. And you know, it's just it ain't 581 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,160 going to happen again. And then we managed to find get 582 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,960 some money together and we found Graph Racing. 583 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:54,080 It got this X Rayas Mondeo for sale and literally I was with 584 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:59,960 with Barry, who's been my engineer for a long time, 20-30 585 00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:04,280 years. And we found out and it was in. 586 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,840 So we drove down to France to see Graf racing and he'd been 587 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,480 racing in the French championship, which wasn't the 588 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,560 competitiveness of the the British series. 589 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,520 We went down and literally it was three weeks before the first 590 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,080 race. Managed to do a deal and we got 591 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,600 a trailer and we'd stuck on trailer and we brought it back. 592 00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:24,679 Didn't know how good it was and we worked on it. 593 00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:31,719 And again, it was, it was a, it was a time where ties were 594 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,920 critical. And in 93 Mitch, the Michelin 595 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,480 factory and 94 Michelin was the weapon of choice. 596 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,239 It was they they they're not a good qualifier because it was 597 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:47,639 qualified. It was unlimited ties then 598 00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:48,080 that's. Right. 599 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,239 Yeah. And But Mitchelin was the weapon 600 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,600 of choice anyway. There was a there was a an 601 00:34:54,600 --> 00:35:00,120 uproar at the the World Cup in 94 that one of the tyres got 602 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,360 nicked off, stolen from Nissan at the back of the pits, one of 603 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:10,280 the Michelin tyres. And now what do they reckon TBR 604 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:11,920 nicked it? And then because they were 605 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,240 running on Dunlops next year and they anyway, the local Bobby, 606 00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:17,680 because Nissan reported this, the local Bobby had an interview 607 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:23,880 with, with the can't remember his name, Pascal, the head of 608 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,080 Michelin Motorsport. And he's right in his notes. 609 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,920 He goes right, can I take the the value of this tie which he 610 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,360 claims been sold and he gives, yes, it is 1,000,000 francs. 611 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,680 These local crime figures. He spits his tea out. 612 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,840 The local crime figures gone through the roof and he said 613 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,320 that that is his development in it. 614 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:48,560 Anyway, suddenly for 95, we'd signed the Dunlop for 95 and 615 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,720 Dunlop, we're on it. They had a good race tie and 616 00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:54,680 they had a exceptional qualifier entire. 617 00:35:54,680 --> 00:36:02,200 And so there was only us and the Volvos on, on this tyre and it 618 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,320 was mega. And so we could, we could 619 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,160 qualify high up and we could race high up. 620 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,440 And it was suddenly it was like, wow, how good is this? 621 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,480 I. Mean the qualifying ties, the 622 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,200 qualifying. I can't, I cannot tell you the 623 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,760 grip of those. If you'd use them at Thruxton, 624 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:24,600 you would have to go so slow on your Outlier ran to the chicane 625 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,560 just before the chicane. You you hit it and then it's 626 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,520 essentially like ground effects. And then one lap and you get to 627 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,480 the last corner and you'd be touch and go whether the tyres 628 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,680 were still in. So when you hit the brakes for 629 00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:41,000 the chicane on the end of that one lap, it was 5050, whether 630 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,680 the tyres were still in and you make finished up. 631 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,280 One lap the tyres were done and you throw them away. 632 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,240 Factory team back then, two cars, you'd use 200 tyres a 633 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:50,480 weekend. Is it independent? 634 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,080 We use 80. Trying to be frugal. 635 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:54,400 Yeah, that. That's frugal. 636 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:55,520 Wow. That's a That's a lot. 637 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:56,920 That's a lot for an independence, isn't? 638 00:36:57,720 --> 00:36:59,240 It, of course, yeah. I mean, our budgets were going 639 00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:00,680 through the roof, but it was, yeah. 640 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,520 I guess the idea that Dunlop probably liked was you beating 641 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,080 the Michelin works teams in qualifying then and saying look, 642 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:10,400 you know, look what the Dunlops can do. 643 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,800 Well, the the, the thing for us was the the Ralphs factory four 644 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,560 team was running on Michelins. Yeah, so they loved it. 645 00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:20,920 Yeah. And which which was the same in 646 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:28,280 Nissan in 9899, NMA used to use us because RML ran on, you know, 647 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,400 they ran with the factory engines and all the rest of it. 648 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,240 They used to us use us with another engine manufacturer 649 00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:39,600 which was IES, Graham, Dell Jones and Dave Hill, who are 650 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,120 really good guys. And they used to use us just to 651 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,720 almost poke RML with. These guys can do this, you 652 00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:52,040 know, What are you doing? It's it's, it's politics, isn't 653 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,560 that? Heading into 96 then and as a 654 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,440 team, dynamics turned to their hands to build in their own 655 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,040 Super Torah, especially after the success of 95. 656 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,200 What made the team decide to go down that route? 657 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,240 Because it turned into quite a tough year with a tough car, 658 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:11,600 didn't it? 96 wasn't a good year. 659 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,040 I think with the success we'd had, Razz's contract was up and 660 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:19,560 so forward. We're looking to place a new 661 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:28,840 deal and so we, we threw a cap into it as did Shubal, as did W 662 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:33,200 Surrey. And they were getting it was it 663 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,440 was getting pretty advanced. Then you know, they they were 664 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,760 tucking the engines. Volvo broke ground with how much 665 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,600 they took the engines back in down inside with with more 666 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,800 control what we demanded off the guys and the forward back then 667 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,440 it was going to run the drivetrain through the V of the 668 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,720 V6, it was going to be that low. Yeah. 669 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:02,160 And so we'd done a design and Shuba done a design. 670 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,760 Anyway, we lost the deal, I can't remember why, whatever 671 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,360 reason. And so we were so committed down 672 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,680 the line with sponsors, everything we said we'd go that 673 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,280 way anyway. So it was us V Shuba Cars and W 674 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,520 Surrey. W Surrey won the deal to when 675 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,320 the British run the British factory team. 676 00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:22,280 But what they did back then is they supplied, they didn't, 677 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,760 they'd only done F3 at the time. And so they basically gave Ford 678 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,960 an F3 budget, which was 1/4 of a touring car budget. 679 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,320 So they get 1/4 of the way, they get 2 races in and they go over 680 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,160 and out of one, you know, And so the problem is Ford are 681 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,080 committed to that point. So they go, oh shit, a bunch of 682 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:40,480 videos now we've got to prop you up. 683 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,000 And but then that was the cattle. 684 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:47,680 They're off, they're already in. But the Ford we, we, we did one, 685 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,960 we were on the wrong tire again because we got back put back. 686 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:56,240 We were off at the factory thing and the car was, was our work. 687 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,760 I mean, I kissed the ground. We got to the last race and I 688 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,040 kissed it. I got out and I kissed the 689 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,600 ground because I never got to give it back in that looking 690 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,840 thing ever again. And so that's that was a tough 691 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,040 year for you then that obviously we know that and you. 692 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,600 Just that was a real that was. But you know what I say to young 693 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,520 drivers now? I mean young drivers, because 694 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,720 with everything now with equality and all the rest of it, 695 00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:20,720 it was, it was, it was such a period of innovation. 696 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,840 So you're trying really wacky things with the BMWs. 697 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,960 We're trying variable lengths, trumpets, you know, all that on 698 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:34,960 the engines and everything. And it was, it was real period 699 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,560 of innovation, ingenuity and thinking outside the box. 700 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,680 When the rules they say now, if it doesn't say you can do it, 701 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,360 that means you can't do it, which is wrong because then, 702 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,800 yeah, yeah, it doesn't take technology forward. 703 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,560 But yeah, it, it just, it was, it was a horrible year. 704 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,200 I said to young drivers, sometimes if you're in a tough 705 00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:01,640 car in tough times, a calm sea doesn't make a skilled sailor. 706 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,720 And that means if you're having a tough time, you're fit. 707 00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:09,120 If you can get through the year and and still, you know, keep 708 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,440 your wits about you, you'll be a better, stronger person for it. 709 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,880 It's, it's what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, doesn't it? 710 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,440 I think because. You just learned tough years and 711 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,520 those mid 90s. I had some tough years and, but 712 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:27,200 I think that really that's that laid a lot of the foundations I 713 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,840 drew upon, you know, for when I was going for championships and 714 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,440 developing cars in the in the noughties and, and going forward 715 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:35,000 from there. So. 716 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,880 It was obviously 97 and then that saw Dynamics build your own 717 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:39,920 car. This time is the second 718 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,680 generation of the Mondea. So despite a bit more success 719 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,400 than the previous one in 96, which you said, obviously it was 720 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,880 a bit of a disaster, you ended up swapping to the Premiera 721 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,040 halfway through. So what was the reason for the 722 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:51,600 change? Was you just grasping that 723 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:52,840 opportunity? Or you could? 724 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,280 The car was still hard work and we were still on the wrong tyre. 725 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,960 And then Alec Paul, who was the head of Nissan Motors for 726 00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:08,480 Europe, was an old mate to my dad back from the 60s and he, he 727 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,560 offered us a deal. I think they valued the, the 728 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:15,200 independence back then and they offered us a car. 729 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,880 As far as I was going, it couldn't be worse than that. 730 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,360 One day I was in. So I just, I went, yeah, I went 731 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,800 for it and and it was, it was good. 732 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,440 It was a good car, the same as the 97 car. 733 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,640 It was pretty quick, but it was unreliable. 734 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:32,480 You know, they would brake all the time. 735 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,160 That was the Achilles heel of them in 96. 736 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,400 The back end in 96 and 97 that was was pretty fast, but it was 737 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,200 and we still don't weren't on the right time, but it was still 738 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,120 pretty quick, but it would break. 739 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,560 That was the problem. Right. 740 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,920 And then obviously you've stayed with the Premier, then into 98 741 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:55,160 and then for me and many others, that's the year that you really 742 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,080 started coming to the attention of everyone because you were 743 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,960 running further and further towards the front. 744 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:06,400 You were often in the top 6IN races, but you've often then 745 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:10,880 found yourself in scrapes and ended up coming off worst on a 746 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,320 fair number of occasions. Was that because you're an 747 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,680 independent A? 100% you've got, you know, 748 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:22,440 you've got to get in your box and I thought you're going to 749 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,640 say we sort of came to the fore because we had Max power 750 00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,000 sponsorship starting in 98. Yeah. 751 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,680 Those are some good days, Yeah. But with the drivers, yeah. 752 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,960 You've got Johnny Dicotto, Roberto Raglia, Frank Baylor, 753 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,480 You, you've got some pretty heavy international hitters. 754 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:45,080 And some of them were, were OK. Some of them were absolute 755 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,920 asses. And you had to put yourself I, 756 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,360 I, I knew I had to put myself in a situation where we'd both go 757 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:56,080 off and suddenly they go, they call you a twit or whatever or 758 00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:57,280 whatever they're going to call you. 759 00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:58,600 They call me a lot worse than that. 760 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:03,560 But then they suddenly go, I need to leave them space or give 761 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,040 them respect. And then you could raise it. 762 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:09,480 But it took, it took a long time, but they were prepared to 763 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:11,880 trash, you know, the old Senna thing. 764 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,400 He's prepared to crack. You decide whether we're going 765 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,000 to crash. So I went, I'm not backing out 766 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:23,280 of this when I think and we both crashed and but then slowly 767 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,000 they, they, they, they gave me the respect and I won the 768 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,640 respects, you know, going forwards. 769 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,560 But it was, it was a tough year in that respect. 770 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,800 My, my approach with it. Never give it out what you're 771 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,120 not prepared to get back. I think one of the David Leslie 772 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,920 was a champion that should have been, but he always used to give 773 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,880 it out too freely. And then people would, you know, 774 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,680 you've got Gabrielle Taquini and, and those others they'd 775 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,240 remember for 3-4 years ahead. And they go and they get him 776 00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:52,480 back and they go at the critical time and they're, that was for 777 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,040 them. And but then on the flip side, 778 00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:01,160 you've got people like Robo now you know who's who's a lovely 779 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:02,960 lad, talented lad. He's fast. 780 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,120 But when he was racing for dynamics, I had to dig at him. 781 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:08,760 I went who won the, who won the grid? 782 00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,360 Don't you get on with, he goes, Oh no, I'll get on with 783 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,400 everybody. There's your problem. 784 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:15,640 Because I was always falling out with someone. 785 00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,600 I don't want to because I want to get on with everybody. 786 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,680 But I was always because, because, because competition 787 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,280 breeds conflict breeds breeds animosity and all the rest of 788 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:24,240 it. And I was always falling out 789 00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:28,360 with someone And Dan was almost too nice. 790 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,200 He's got the, he's got the capability to do it. 791 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:33,840 But I was always, I was critical. 792 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,280 You got to, you got to kill a bit nasty. 793 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,280 And, you know, people who make it aren't, aren't necessarily 794 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,080 nice, nice people. We had Leron Aiello on the show 795 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:49,160 a couple of weeks ago and he met John Cleland at Brands for Super 796 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,680 Touring Power a couple of months ago and it was the first time 797 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,480 they'd ever spoken. I mean, they raced in the same 798 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,840 championship for a year. And he said I didn't really 799 00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,520 speak to anyone. They were all rivals. 800 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,200 They were all people I was fighting against. 801 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,240 They weren't friends. We weren't there to be friends. 802 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,680 I was there to beat them. And it was a really interesting 803 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,000 sort of way of seeing it that, you know, he he'd raced in the 804 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,040 championship for a whole year with someone and had hardly 805 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:11,960 spoken to him. So yeah, it's it's an 806 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:13,960 interesting way of. Thinking that's, that's, that's 807 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:18,360 the same as it is now, you know, if I had to say as a driver, the 808 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,800 the touring car paddock, can it can be, it's toxic, you know, 809 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,560 because people you get on, you smile and everything, but it's 810 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:30,880 all crocodile smiles, which which was why do I like classic 811 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:32,280 racing now? Because people smile at you and 812 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,320 they're nice to you and they're genuine because because their 813 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,400 livelihoods don't depend on it. Should they want to win and 814 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,640 should they want to try and get one over on you, But it's not, 815 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:47,000 it's not, it's not brutal racing, which which touring cars 816 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,880 is win at almost any cost. But you. 817 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:50,680 Yeah, because. Because you're fighting for 818 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:54,160 careers, aren't you? You're trying to make a name for 819 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:55,080 yourself. Livelihood. 820 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,600 Your livelihood. When I was juvenali was my 821 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,000 teammate, you know, if I was quicker than in qualifying, he'd 822 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,240 be angry as hell. Yeah, it's his breakfast. 823 00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:07,720 Like, like he wouldn't be happy, you know, next time, but. 824 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:13,520 Once the helmets on, you're not proper mates, you can't be. 825 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,880 Especially ready you can talk to him like anybody and then as 826 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:18,560 soon as he puts his helmets on he's an idiot. 827 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,000 So also talking on the subject of of 98, then bring it back to 828 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,360 that. Of course, that was the year of 829 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,400 arguably and I think of yeah, a few of us on the podcast shares 830 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,320 opinion the greatest touring car rates of all time at Donington 831 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,640 with a certain Nigel Mansell in appearance. 832 00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:51,360 Was that a pinch yourself moment, racing against arguably 833 00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:53,960 the most, well, at that time, probably the most famous driver 834 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,240 in the country? It was a bit surreal. 835 00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,960 I mean, I remember coming down the back straight with him and 836 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:05,400 there was Nigel and there was John and there was Cleland and, 837 00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:07,880 you know, all sorts of surround and it's pouring rain. 838 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,480 So it was horrible conditions. And we're side by side going 839 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,720 down the straight to the the chicane at Donington. 840 00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:16,280 And I looked across and he just gives me a wave through the 841 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,840 through the window. And I thought, how cool is that 842 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,840 like this? And anyway, he did make the Ford 843 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,120 was, I mean, he drove in, you know, he drove out of his, his, 844 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:29,960 his skin that day sort of came into his own. 845 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,240 And it would have been sort of a bit of a fairy tale if he had 846 00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:37,800 one. But clan had other ideas. 847 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,720 It must. Have been really surreal, like 848 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,680 someone is iconic as Nigel. He was because I grew up and he 849 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,200 was. He was a hero for me before he 850 00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:46,880 won. The campaign. 851 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,120 You know, because he was a scrapper, he was a brummy and he 852 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,560 was a scrapper. And I think one of the things 853 00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:58,280 which is, which is in all forms of racing now is back then you 854 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:03,080 had to do your dues and work your way up the ladder to learn 855 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,040 your craft because there was no data. 856 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:11,880 You know, Adam, if Adam was was quicker than me, if he didn't 857 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,760 tell me how he was doing it, then I had to go out and try and 858 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,440 follow him and he'd pull over and he wouldn't let me follow 859 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,240 him. And you've got to, you've got to 860 00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:20,800 work with if I'm a second off the pace, I've got to try and 861 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,760 figure it out myself. There's no I can't study his 862 00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:28,200 data and go, oh, he's breaking 5 meters later there he's on 863 00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,920 carrying more mid corner speed at six and blah blah blah. 864 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,560 It's almost it's monkey seat. I love data. 865 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,360 I love the the technology side of it, but it it has made it's 866 00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,120 an evil thing because it's made monkey see, monkey do. 867 00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:43,920 So the youngsters can come in and they can fast track in 868 00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:49,080 straight away just by like a video game when back then you 869 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,440 had to learn your craft and and why the old drivers are 870 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,680 sometimes better at developing things because they it's the 871 00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:57,800 seat of the pants, because the engineer would come back. 872 00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:02,440 OK, what's it doing? Because they there's no data for 873 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:07,560 them to follow or watch or, or or film or, you know, the TV was 874 00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,360 post a week. So you'd see that's a week 875 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,240 later. So if we went to Paul Ricker 876 00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:15,640 after the World Cup, you hadn't seen the circuit before. 877 00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,280 You hadn't got a SIM. You haven't got YouTube. 878 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,680 So watch some laps transit. You've got nothing. 879 00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:22,360 You go or was the left or right coming up? 880 00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,120 You'd look literally you've got a map on the dash. 881 00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,680 With the technology, obviously you were one of the few drivers 882 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,040 that were in the championship sort of really throughout that 883 00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,200 period seeing how that technology developed. 884 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,640 I mean, did you find as you had a preference of the the earlier 885 00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:42,120 cars with less aero and bit more raw or did you, did you enjoy 886 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,120 the cars they just got faster and faster? 887 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,480 Was it a natural progression with the Technology Fury, or did 888 00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,360 you find that it was progressively like kind of 889 00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,480 having to learn new and new things constantly? 890 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,880 Now as a, as a now I look back, probably the most fun cars were 891 00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:02,560 the original 92 cars because they were, they were, they were 892 00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:04,720 raw. They were, you know, like when 893 00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:08,640 we, we've raced historics, OK, we're on a period of tyres now, 894 00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:15,360 Dunlop tyres, but the most, the closest thing to an original M3, 895 00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,480 you know, which we started with in 9192, where we ended up was 896 00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,040 completely different kettle of fish. 897 00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,640 But as a driver, you loved it every year. 898 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:28,040 You just, you were so excited on what you were going to come with 899 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,200 and, and get with, with the tyres and the, the aero and 900 00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,240 everything, because they were so reliant on the aero back then, 901 00:51:33,240 --> 00:51:35,480 though, that what they were doing with the development and 902 00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,400 everything and the diff technology, you know, because 903 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,120 the plated diffs had better traction out the corners, the, 904 00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:42,880 the viscous diffs had better braking. 905 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,400 So then extract and then Hulen came up with combination diffs. 906 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,880 So you had the braking so you could break right through to the 907 00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:50,240 apex and they're really aggressive. 908 00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,400 It was just, and the cars were light and nimble. 909 00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,040 You know, the cars were 975 kilos. 910 00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,600 Now they're 1300 kilos. You're always 1/3 of a ton 911 00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,040 heavier. And so it's just, it's, it 912 00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,560 changes the way you can, you can drive them. 913 00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,320 It's it's a tough, tough thing with all the hybrids they've got 914 00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:13,480 on on the things now. So back to 98, Matt. 915 00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,680 So that was the year you unfortunately you lost the Auto 916 00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,360 Sport Cup to Rostad. Tommy, yeah, I think he was 917 00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:22,600 just. I think 1. 918 00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:23,960 He was quick. No, he's quick. 919 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,280 I think he's running for DC Cook, wasn't he? 920 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,520 And in the Reno. And it was a good package and 921 00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:34,520 Tommy was quick. He's a handy lad and I think 922 00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,680 certain circuits he had their job in other ziad edge on him. 923 00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,520 I was hoping we were going to happen through the year but just 924 00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:43,240 couldn't quite do it unfortunately, even though we 925 00:52:43,240 --> 00:52:45,960 had Max power sponsorship. Talking of Max power, I mean 926 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:52,720 that whole era of Max power and lads and 90s are you you single 927 00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:54,680 handedly made Nissan's cool. Didn't. 928 00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:56,800 You, the amount of people who've come to me and said I bought a 929 00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:02,880 Ferreera, I thought, well, really, But it's that actually 930 00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:04,040 sets us up with the business model. 931 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,880 We came up with a business model then and we went to Max Power 932 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,040 and we got, they came up with a sponsorship because they saw it, 933 00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:13,680 because BTC was just on the, on the massive up then, you know, 934 00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,360 with the crowds and the TV and all the rest of it. 935 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,360 And they saw it and they got it and we we talked them into it. 936 00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,920 But then what we did is we went to all their suppliers. 937 00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,200 Not suppliers, they're advertisers, because everybody 938 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:29,360 wanted to be endorsed by Max Power and they'd have four or 939 00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:34,520 five ICE, you know, suppliers or manufacturers, brands, their 940 00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:39,520 tyre brands, whatever runs car care products. 941 00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,200 And we went to each one. It was almost the highest bidder 942 00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:44,640 and we got them. We built the budget up that way 943 00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,760 and we built a good budget and we run that. 944 00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:51,760 But it ran for a few good years until sort of the Max Power 945 00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:53,800 thing ran out or the Super Touring thing ran out. 946 00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,760 And then we almost turned it on its head with the Halfords later 947 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,400 on in 10 years later where we went to suppliers rather than 948 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:05,440 advertisers and we use that same business bottle back, you know, 949 00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,440 again, for the next 15 years. Really. 950 00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:09,080 Yeah. Of course. 951 00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:13,720 Yeah, I thought it like that. But yeah, the whole the whole 952 00:54:13,720 --> 00:54:17,520 look of a touring car pretty much was how everyone wanted 953 00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:22,360 their Rd. going. Primera escort focus, whatever, 954 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:26,920 you know, the, the low profile, the, the, the middle wiper. 955 00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:32,600 It's, it's, it's it created a whole generation of fans in that 956 00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,760 way as well, didn't it? It was, it was a really, really 957 00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:41,480 funnier to be, to be around. You know, and jokes apart, we 958 00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,720 had a lot of fun along the along the way. 959 00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,600 Poor old Shaky Burn. He got vitrified for spraying 960 00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,360 champagne of a girl's skirt on the podium. 961 00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:55,400 BSB podium, you know, which someone dug out a couple of 962 00:54:55,400 --> 00:55:01,240 years ago, someone dug out a video from 1015 years ago and, 963 00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:07,640 and I saw him a month afterwards and I said, where did they get 964 00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:09,280 that from? He says, I have no idea. 965 00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:13,040 But then Eurosport onto him, ITV or onto him and saying, right, 966 00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,040 you've got to do this name and shame. 967 00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:18,120 I suck my balls. You know, sort of video that 968 00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:22,200 where you throw yourself on the on the sword and before they 969 00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:26,760 sack him and I went, I went, Oh my God, that's you know what I 970 00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,520 thought my first thing in mind. Thank God they didn't have that 971 00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:33,480 back in Max paradise, you know, mobile phones, videos and 972 00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:35,800 everything, because anything went. 973 00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:39,160 But everyone's having good. Like Shaky said with that thing 974 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,000 on the podium with the girls, the girls were queuing up. 975 00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,120 They loved it. You know, it's easy to say they 976 00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:44,120 loved it, but they were queuing up. 977 00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:45,200 They're going, oh, me, me, me, me, me. 978 00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:48,720 You'd like going up there. So and Shaky's the most lovely 979 00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:52,000 bloke, family going bloke. It's just going with the flow of 980 00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,440 what the crowds want and what's fun and all the rest of it. 981 00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,160 But what's fun, it's not fun anymore unfortunately. 982 00:55:57,600 --> 00:55:59,760 Yeah, that's, but we did have some good times. 983 00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,840 In between 98 and 99 now then, and it's something you've 984 00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:09,440 touched on already, but your adventure to Australia and for 985 00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:13,400 the back first 1000 with Steve Richards nearly winning the race 986 00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:17,480 that year, that must have been kind of a bucket list moment to 987 00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:21,440 to race in, you know, one of the the most unique and most famous 988 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,160 touring car races of all that. Yeah. 989 00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:28,560 You know when you're in it, you don't say it's a bucket list 990 00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:32,040 thing or whatever or I don't because I'm so nervous about 991 00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:41,480 messing it up and doing the drug and it is a pressure thing over 992 00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,440 there. It's, I got, I got set down 993 00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:48,760 there in 90 at the end of 97 as a bit of a reward for what we've 994 00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,720 done in 97. And I went, Stevie Richards was 995 00:56:51,720 --> 00:56:55,240 driving for Gary Rogers Motorsport down there and they 996 00:56:55,240 --> 00:56:58,720 had an old, old Nissan, 96 spec Nissan. 997 00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:04,760 And I drove with him and the car broke down and it was, it was, 998 00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:08,000 it was tough. And we were sort of midfield in 999 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:12,520 97 and then in 98 suddenly all the manufacturers got behind is 1000 00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:14,640 it was a big thing. All the manufacturers are going 1001 00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:15,960 on there. You've got Vauxhall going on 1002 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:17,920 there, which which was hold on, you've got Peugeot, you've got 1003 00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:22,200 Honda, you got Volvo were going down there big time, BMW, Audi, 1004 00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:27,720 they're all going down there. And RML were so focused on 99 1005 00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:31,560 and getting it right that they didn't want to, they didn't want 1006 00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:33,480 to go there, the test program and everything. 1007 00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,360 And this seemed quite fancy. They knew they had a fast car 1008 00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:41,800 and they said they wanted to go, but they, you know, they didn't 1009 00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,400 have a massive budget. And so they held it at an old 1010 00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:49,640 test tack at NMA and Didcot, which was in pieces. 1011 00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,600 So they said, you know, Alec Paul again, was, was talking 1012 00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,280 about that and he said, well, we could scrape a bit of budget 1013 00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,320 together and we can do this and we can do that and we can go 1014 00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:03,840 down there and but you know, it's going to be, you know, we 1015 00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,720 know the car's fast, but we don't know how we're going to 1016 00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:08,200 go. And the opposition's high. 1017 00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:11,800 And so we, we threw all this stuff in a 40 foot container, my 1018 00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,360 98 car, which was the 97 car because we always ran with a 1019 00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:19,080 year old kit. And this, this test hack which 1020 00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,920 hadn't run from the beginning of the year in pieces. 1021 00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,040 We threw it all in the container and literally it got there. 1022 00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,600 We got there on the Monday before the race and they started 1023 00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:31,840 building this car and they finished, they did 2 all night 1024 00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,280 as they finished the night before the 1st free practice on 1025 00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:38,600 the Thursday. And the engines had had, you 1026 00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,320 know, the longest an engine had lasted was 600K all year because 1027 00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:47,800 the engines we used to use 800 a year back then as an independent 1028 00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:53,720 because they're so fragile. And so they, you know, they were 1029 00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:57,160 saying to us, Alec Paul flew down and he said, look, if you 1030 00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:00,400 can just qualify somewhere near the front, we'll be chuffed to 1031 00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,360 bits. And then we call it Stevie 1032 00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,760 Richards stuck on the front row Mega. 1033 00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,160 I mean, Ricard pulled out a blinding lap. 1034 00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:11,800 And. They then he came to us on the 1035 00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:14,640 grid and said, look lads, if you can just run up the front for a 1036 00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,280 little bit, you know it'll be because we weren't going to 1037 00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:22,320 finish. It'll be like jobs done. 1038 00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:26,040 And then so we ended up running up the front and then we LED it 1039 00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:28,040 halfway and then we were sort of scrapping off way. 1040 00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,320 And by the end we're running nose to tail with with Ricard at 1041 00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,240 the end. And I'm in the car and I get 1042 00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:36,200 this radio hit, the bastard. I'll be him off. 1043 00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:39,160 Because like. Suddenly they're there's some 1044 00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,200 things they change all along and then they're so pissed off. 1045 00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:47,960 My dad and Alec Paul were so pissed off we'd lost, but it was 1046 00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:49,560 the closest up. I think we finished second by 1047 00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:55,320 1/2 seconds that yeah, yeah, I think for me, you know, for me, 1048 00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:59,960 of all championships I've won and 99 the win and all the rest 1049 00:59:59,960 --> 01:00:01,680 of it. I reckon that was one of the 1050 01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,280 best races of my life. And I do put that down because 1051 01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:06,840 that was a that was a a monumental we finished. 1052 01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:10,520 We actually because we pitted early earlier than we should. 1053 01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:13,080 So all the other teams are going they're going to run out of 1054 01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,320 fuel. And you know, we knew we were 1055 01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:16,720 pushing the Volvo hard all the way. 1056 01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,960 We knew that their oil light was on and we were on back when I 1057 01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:21,480 finished. We're on back literally on metal 1058 01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:25,080 to metal on the on the on the pads and all the other teams are 1059 01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:26,280 going they're going to run out of fuel. 1060 01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:32,680 I ever ran out of fuel 100 meters after the finish line and 1061 01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,600 if you don't make it back to part firm A, which is straight, 1062 01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:38,080 you don't do a full lap, you come straight in after term 1, 1063 01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:43,800 you don't get classified. So to be fair to John Clinton, 1064 01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:48,840 figured this in the Holden or Vauxhall as it was, and he can 1065 01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:52,480 be, I ran out of petrol just as I got to turn 1 after crossing 1066 01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:54,880 the finish line and he got it behind me and pushed me all the 1067 01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:57,360 way to part firm A so I'd be classified as a finisher. 1068 01:00:58,360 --> 01:00:59,880 And we finished second. So, yeah. 1069 01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,000 And then, then because we were allowed to keep the engines 1070 01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,840 running in the pit stops, they put some petrol in it, tried to 1071 01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:09,520 fire it again and all the valve clearances closed up. 1072 01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,840 So if it had ever stalled in the pit stop, we would never restart 1073 01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,800 it again. So it was a, it was a perfect 1074 01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:18,320 storm. So I, I take it as a, as a, as a 1075 01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,400 mega, you know, mega result rather than a loss really. 1076 01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:25,320 Yeah, absolutely. Matt, one question I've got for 1077 01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:30,160 you is as an independent race in the BTCC, what was like an 1078 01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:32,200 approximate budget for you? Because I know we talk about 1079 01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:35,840 copious amounts of tyres, 8 engines, you know, the cars 1080 01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:37,520 would have been expensive to purchase obviously. 1081 01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:39,640 But what, what would that, what would it look like? 1082 01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:43,000 What would a typical budget look like for you running a Nissan? 1083 01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:51,480 I think when we started in in with the M threes, a good budget 1084 01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:57,320 was 60 to 80 grand, early 90s. By the time we finished in 99, 1085 01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:02,320 the budget was probably 700 and you had to do it. 1086 01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:06,160 You know, we'd be using, you know, 80 ties a weekend. 1087 01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:08,840 The engines were, were fragile as hell. 1088 01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:13,360 You know, it's just you've got magnesium uprights, gearboxes, 1089 01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:17,720 you know, just, you know, some of the the teams are now they've 1090 01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:23,120 got one person up per car. We had two full time people and 1091 01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,520 a part time person, no three to full time people on the on one 1092 01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:29,960 car just trying to get together as a little independent so and. 1093 01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:32,840 You're comparing that to also the manufacturers that were 1094 01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:34,960 millions. You know, you look at the, the, 1095 01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:37,680 the salaries alone budget, you know, for the likes, you know 1096 01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,600 that, you know, Matt's, Matt's budget for his car was the same 1097 01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:46,440 as what Lauren was getting paid. And yeah, that's not counting 1098 01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:47,600 the car, is it? You know, well, missing under 1099 01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,400 the reckon missing in 99 was it was just north of 10 million. 1100 01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:53,320 Yeah, wow, Vauxhall shortchanged them and this because they only 1101 01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:57,280 spent seven. But then in in in 2000, they 1102 01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:00,520 reckon Ford got up to something like it was 12 or 13 million. 1103 01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:02,400 Yeah, three cars. Yeah, but. 1104 01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:06,360 Wow, it's bonkers, isn't it? Absolutely bonkers. 1105 01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:23,840 Just read his wages. So in 99 then there was a 1106 01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:28,240 possible move to Nissan to replace Reedy then yes, 1107 01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:30,280 obviously turning it down involved stay with dynamics. 1108 01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:32,640 What was that whole? Obviously we hear lots of 1109 01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:36,680 different things and let's hear from the let's hear about the 1110 01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:37,680 horse's mouth. Come on. 1111 01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:42,480 We'd, we'd, we'd, we'd obviously had a mega result at Bathurst in 1112 01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:48,520 in at the end of 98. Ran on the proper tyre then. 1113 01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,120 So we were getting that spec car. 1114 01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:58,400 We were getting a 98 spec car for 99 and which was a it was a 1115 01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:01,680 multi link suspension. When the factory cars were going 1116 01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:05,160 to have to go keep up with the the relegation. 1117 01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:07,920 They were going to have to go B Maxwell, which ended up to be 1118 01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:10,440 pretty trick. But the multi link was was 1119 01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:14,600 already better. So we tested it pre season. 1120 01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:18,640 It was the new controlled tower and we used to go down to Alba 1121 01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:22,280 City for a week before and every year. 1122 01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:24,720 And we had a mega test down there. 1123 01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:32,320 And I think we had Paul Morris over for from Australia because 1124 01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,720 he'd run so well in the Audis and the BMW's down there. 1125 01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:39,880 And then I got this call from Volvo, literally I think I was 1126 01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:43,040 in in Alba City with the with the Nissan. 1127 01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:48,360 And they said, oh, we'd like you to come and partner Ricard or 1128 01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:49,640 interested in new partner Ricard. 1129 01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:56,520 We got a test of the ref. It was a week after I got back 1130 01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:01,840 from Alba City. And I said, yeah, OK, great, you 1131 01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:05,480 know, for that. So then we left the Nissan. 1132 01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:07,120 The Nissan had a great front end on it. 1133 01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,200 I like a good front end on, on the car. 1134 01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:14,880 And I had a good engine. You know, we tested, I won the 1135 01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,000 championship in 98. So it was the championship when 1136 01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:20,320 he carved it was it was it was a plum drive, Waukesha Racing. 1137 01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,400 And so we went into a ref, Rico went out, smashed the time in 1138 01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,360 and I jumped in the car and I struggled. 1139 01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:29,560 I really struggled in it. It was a really pushy 1140 01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:33,640 understeery car, which Ricard was was just demon at getting a 1141 01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:36,440 time out of. I remember coming into the pits 1142 01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:41,680 on 22 seconds off him and they all, you know, the engineers 1143 01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:43,320 going right. You want to change? 1144 01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:48,600 I went, I want to use chain. I think go know the Carl as it 1145 01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:49,880 is now. We'll do the time. 1146 01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,800 It's up to me to figure it out and work it out how Ricard is 1147 01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:57,120 driving it. And to be fair to myself, by the 1148 01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:59,560 end of the day I got pretty close to him. 1149 01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:03,080 And then they rang me up a couple of days later and they 1150 01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:05,840 said I think it was between me and Vincent Rademacher. 1151 01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:08,560 And they said, oh, we'd be interested in you. 1152 01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:12,440 And then Paul Morris's sat sat in front of me because he knew 1153 01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:16,360 he knew about this. And they'd lined him up for the 1154 01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:22,880 Dynamics Dr. And, and I couldn't believe I saw on the phone there 1155 01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,600 was Andy King and he rang me and he said, what do you want to do? 1156 01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:27,960 And there were commercials involved and all the rest of it. 1157 01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:33,920 I went, I want to stay with the Nissan, you know, and yeah, I 1158 01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,320 fought so hard, so long to try and get that drive. 1159 01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:38,800 And in the end, because I could see the potential in the Nissan. 1160 01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,400 Yeah. Six weeks later I'm, I'm SAT on 1161 01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:47,080 the grid and he actually went 1/4 of £1,000,000. 1162 01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:50,280 So it was, yeah, I couldn't believe I said it when I did it 1163 01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:55,280 and Paul was just spitting. But he went back and had a good, 1164 01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:59,120 good run in V eights. But it was probably the best 1165 01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:02,840 negative decision I've made in my life, you know, with 1166 01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,360 propelling what you know I've done in my career and one of the 1167 01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:08,760 biggest, biggest points in my career six weeks later. 1168 01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:11,280 Yeah. And sort of moving on to that, 1169 01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:16,480 at Donington season opener, you get on pole in the feature race, 1170 01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:20,320 you're in the lead. And then obviously the feature 1171 01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:22,880 race, the part of the feature race at the time in the era, 1172 01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:26,080 there was compulsory pit stops. And I'm sorry, we're going to 1173 01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:29,440 have to go there. But you pulled into the pits and 1174 01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:32,640 it's stalled. You stole the coming out of the 1175 01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:36,040 pits, didn't you? And I can't even imagine what 1176 01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:37,960 your what was going through your mind at the time when that 1177 01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:39,840 happened. Your heart sank. 1178 01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:44,320 Well, in race one, I got stuck behind David Leslie and I just 1179 01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:48,240 thought I couldn't have a go at him cleanly. 1180 01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:51,160 And you've got, you've got to be respectful. 1181 01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:56,480 So I messed that up a bit. And so we we got pole for race 1182 01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:58,920 2. The one, the one thing back then 1183 01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:03,080 which people might not be aware of is you had so many, it was 1184 01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:07,800 like 16 tires, but you had a choice between soft, medium and 1185 01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:10,400 hard. And so, and you could have any 1186 01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:13,720 combination of, of the, of, of those. 1187 01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:19,359 So we used to have so, so many softs, so many medium and so 1188 01:08:19,359 --> 01:08:21,200 many hard. The softs obviously you want for 1189 01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:22,920 qualifying and the hard you want for the race. 1190 01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:24,640 And the medium is sort of somewhere in between. 1191 01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:28,520 So you used to qualify on three and you could you could mix them 1192 01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:29,319 all up. Yeah. 1193 01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,240 You could have softs on the front or softs on a rear and 1194 01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:33,520 stuff. Yeah, yeah, you'd have 3 softs 1195 01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,520 and a medium on your right rear. So you've got to be careful down 1196 01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:38,040 Craner. And then for the race you'd 1197 01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:41,760 have, we'd have two hards on the front, a medium on your left 1198 01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:43,800 rear and a soft on your right rear. 1199 01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:45,359 And you've got, again, you've got to be careful. 1200 01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:49,120 Dan Craner. Now you got people like Jimmy T 1201 01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:52,399 in the Honda. We knew they used to go balls 1202 01:08:52,399 --> 01:08:54,319 out, so they used to go soft to medium. 1203 01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:59,520 So they'd be ultra fast in the in qualifying and they'd look at 1204 01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:03,240 breaking the back of you in, in early in the race, but then 1205 01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:04,920 they'd be screwed later on in the race. 1206 01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:10,200 So we were always going for the long game and so I'm I'm all 1207 01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:13,880 right, I'm I'm sitting pretty in in, in in the race. 1208 01:09:14,359 --> 01:09:18,359 The Nissan was a bastard for stalling and then it was a pig 1209 01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:20,920 for restarting as well. So when it stalled, I thought, 1210 01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:24,479 fuck it, it's all over. Somehow it re fired. 1211 01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,279 It fired straight away. But then we went down to 5th. 1212 01:09:27,279 --> 01:09:32,399 I went shit, it's all over. But then we're on a really good 1213 01:09:32,399 --> 01:09:35,880 tire combo, which the others weren't a lot of the others 1214 01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:39,720 weren't for the for the last quarter of the race. 1215 01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:43,760 It was a tire comic. It's it's the long term strategy 1216 01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:48,720 because we knew we had speed in the car anyway, that's why it 1217 01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:51,359 came to us. And I knew I was going to have 1218 01:09:51,359 --> 01:09:56,480 Jimmy in the end. I was a bit sort of eager to get 1219 01:09:56,480 --> 01:10:00,680 past him, you know, and I was lucky with the vans bonnet 1220 01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:01,960 coming up and all the rest of it. 1221 01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:06,160 But so there's a there's a few lucky balls we got served along 1222 01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:08,360 the way. Yes, it was. 1223 01:10:09,480 --> 01:10:12,720 Yeah, because there was what there was one attempted move 1224 01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:15,720 with Jimmy that you you made a little bit of contact and your 1225 01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:19,400 front wing was flapping. And I remember at the time, but 1226 01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:21,960 watching back as I was at the race and watching back and 1227 01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:25,720 Charlie and John Watson were saying or could he get called in 1228 01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:27,840 over that, you know, because it's flapping away. 1229 01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:31,440 It wasn't, but it just held on and and obviously, yeah, that's 1230 01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:33,280 that was another bit of luck that you had that day. 1231 01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:36,280 Well, yeah, I, I, I tried to throw it down the inside into 1232 01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:39,720 Maclean's and Jimmy turned in and we had a bit of contact and 1233 01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:42,760 I, I could have got him, but I thought, no, because I'll get 1234 01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:44,280 pinged for it. So I've backed off. 1235 01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:45,680 And then I thought we could have them again. 1236 01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:48,840 So, but it was we got speed in the car at the end, so that was 1237 01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:50,560 all right. But it was, it was, it was 1238 01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:53,160 really surreal. The, it's one of the few times 1239 01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:56,840 I've come down the pit lane and everybody was at every garage. 1240 01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:59,680 That pit wall was just absolutely packed. 1241 01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:02,480 It's just, it's a bit of an ad of a body moment. 1242 01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:05,840 You can't believe it's you. And it's quite a surreal thing 1243 01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:10,960 because I went home on the night and you know, the next, it 1244 01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:14,160 doesn't change. I just went to the pub and had 1245 01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:16,760 some friends and went. How cool is that? 1246 01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:20,040 And then the guy in The Who owned the pub always went, what 1247 01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:22,040 are you doing it? And he wants to replay it. 1248 01:11:22,480 --> 01:11:24,840 I've just seen that. Chill out. 1249 01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:30,000 But then, you know, the next morning, because Richard Tate 1250 01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:32,480 Harris was doing all the PR then and sponsorship. 1251 01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:35,000 I mean, we used to sort of share an office together. 1252 01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,160 And I got in the next morning with a bit of a hangover. 1253 01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:42,240 And he's on the phone to some radio station in Australia 1254 01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:44,320 going, Oh yeah, yeah, we've done this and blah, blah, blah, all 1255 01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:46,720 rest of it. And it was, it was the biggest 1256 01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:51,520 surreal moment for me because it was almost a massive anticlimax 1257 01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:57,240 because for 10 years or my whole life, that's all I'd aspired 1258 01:11:57,240 --> 01:11:59,560 for, to win a race and do it and everything. 1259 01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:04,440 And we'd won this massive prize. And I walked in the next 1260 01:12:04,440 --> 01:12:06,480 morning. I thought, has it changed me as 1261 01:12:06,480 --> 01:12:08,720 a person? I thought, no, it doesn't. 1262 01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:12,720 No better person for it. Yeah, I've got, we've done it 1263 01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:14,000 and we've won the cash and everything. 1264 01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:19,160 But it was a real anti climax, a real let down for me the next 1265 01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:21,960 day. And it's where I it's why I now 1266 01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:28,320 admire drivers like sort of Lewis and Hamilton and Sebastian 1267 01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:31,680 Vettel. And OK, they're getting paid 10s 1268 01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:34,800 of millions for the for the job, but to keep the motivation they 1269 01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:37,400 have. Because at that point I had to 1270 01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:40,200 pick myself up and go shake yourself down, right? 1271 01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,160 We'll now look to the next race and what we're doing. 1272 01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:45,840 And I'm still hungry because I thought it hasn't changed. 1273 01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:48,080 I'm no better person for doing it. 1274 01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:52,240 And it was because I'm, I do like to keep my feet on the 1275 01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:54,600 ground as a, as a real working class person. 1276 01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:58,320 And so it was, yeah, it was a real, it was a real surreal 1277 01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:00,680 moment for me. Yeah, OK. 1278 01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:04,080 The the one memory of as I said just now, I was, I was there and 1279 01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:06,960 along with many other people who I'm sure I've told you over the 1280 01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:08,280 years, I was there when that happened. 1281 01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:12,960 I was there. The noise from the crowd when 1282 01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:19,280 you overtook James the second time and made the move stick, I 1283 01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:21,720 can still hear now. It's one of the loudest cheers 1284 01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:23,920 I've heard at a touring car event. 1285 01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:28,560 It was just phenomenal. Everyone was backing you. 1286 01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:32,080 And you, you did. You were that privateer that was 1287 01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:34,600 upsetting the words. Yeah. 1288 01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:37,720 Yeah, it was just a wonderful. That's what the British public 1289 01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:39,480 loves, the underdog, which is what we were. 1290 01:13:39,480 --> 01:13:43,360 And I think the the the because we were non conformist but the 1291 01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:45,360 Max power side as well. That too, yeah. 1292 01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:48,000 And people like that, people like that little bit bit of 1293 01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:49,840 thing. But you know, those Super 1294 01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:52,920 Touring cars, they were incredibly noisy in inside. 1295 01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:57,960 And you say that it's, I think it's one of the few moments, 1296 01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:00,840 maybe one of the only moments I've actually heard the crowd 1297 01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:03,680 roar. I heard it because you're 1298 01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:07,120 actually off throttle when when the move made, I made the move, 1299 01:14:07,480 --> 01:14:08,880 you're off throttle. Of course, yeah. 1300 01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:13,800 So and you could you, you could hear it in the car and that was, 1301 01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:16,200 you know, it makes the hairs and your your arms stand upon end 1302 01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:18,320 freely. Obviously after the race you 1303 01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:20,760 didn't feel like it changed you as a a person. 1304 01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:24,760 How did it change things though, perhaps for yourself on a 1305 01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:27,680 sporting point of view and also the team following that victory? 1306 01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:30,600 Did this sort of strength and ties in this and did it create 1307 01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:32,760 more sponsorship opportunities thereon? 1308 01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:34,600 A lot more respect from the works drivers. 1309 01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:38,040 Matt, that was official. Yeah, I think you've got respect 1310 01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:40,400 from everywhere. It's it just took it all to a 1311 01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:48,200 different level. You know, just suddenly you'd 1312 01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:50,160 proven yourself in one fell swoop. 1313 01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:55,520 So it's, but then your goals move, don't they? 1314 01:14:56,320 --> 01:15:01,640 So what you want? And and then I think our problem 1315 01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:05,040 then is, is they've got the factory cars, they've got Lauren 1316 01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:10,240 and David and Venison having us finish in front of the factory 1317 01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:16,880 cars wasn't good politics. And so after literally after the 1318 01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:19,800 diet and we had a 72 hour strip on the car and I had a drugs 1319 01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:23,000 test. So but then we got downgraded. 1320 01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:26,840 We got, we had to move engine suppliers and we got engine 1321 01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:30,080 specs changed, we got gearbox checks changed, banged. 1322 01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:34,080 And so I went from being having a mega pre season winning. 1323 01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:37,800 I could have won the 1st 2 races outright and I'd never win 1324 01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:41,280 another race that year because it didn't politically fit. 1325 01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:44,480 And that's I was, I was, I was, I was. 1326 01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:49,040 I was quite bitter through the year about it because I knew we 1327 01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:50,800 were. I think we were still second in 1328 01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:56,880 the championship to mid season but it was only by luck when I 1329 01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:59,640 honestly think we could have won that year if they'd have been 1330 01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:03,840 fair. But if with Alec and Alex, a 1331 01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:08,200 great friend and everything and an enemy, but we did it, I 1332 01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:12,120 understand it, but I didn't like it because it didn't fit. 1333 01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:15,040 They wanted us to embarrass as many of the other factory cars 1334 01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:17,680 as we could, but not embarrass their own. 1335 01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:21,880 No, it's like they wanted to put you exactly where they wanted 1336 01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:23,560 you, on the grid. Correct. 1337 01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:25,600 Absolutely. And they they'd literally play 1338 01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:27,920 with it. Now they've run with all the 1339 01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:29,960 boots, but because they were normally aspirated engines 1340 01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:33,480 there, then they just for the amount of ignition you could run 1341 01:16:33,480 --> 01:16:35,520 in the cars. Sometimes when you're running 1342 01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:38,760 maximum ignition, you thought the engine was going to detonate 1343 01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:42,240 as you're driving out the pit lane and you can have more on a 1344 01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:45,480 button and they say, right, you're allowed seven seconds. 1345 01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:48,240 This whole qualifying area, you're allowed seven seconds of 1346 01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:51,160 maximum ignition on the button and you've decided where you're 1347 01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:53,120 going to use it because the engine won't take any more. 1348 01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:58,480 They were that that fractional. So into 2000 he had a bit of a 1349 01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:01,280 bizarre rivalry with Tom Christensen. 1350 01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:06,320 Yeah, I think there was. Tom got drafted in for Honda 1351 01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:09,480 because they were after some superstars then and it was 1352 01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:15,240 before all his Le Mans successes and they had a pit lane 1353 01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:19,520 commentator, Aussie pit lane commentator who's genius, Mark 1354 01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:23,360 Fogarty. He was really, really good at 1355 01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:29,920 just making press where there wasn't press and he'd come to 1356 01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:34,160 you and he'd go, Ah, he says Adam said this and this this 1357 01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:35,320 about you. What do you got to say about 1358 01:17:35,320 --> 01:17:37,200 that? And go really just when you 1359 01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:39,600 fired up getting out of a car. Well, you tell him this and then 1360 01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:41,560 you go to Adam go, Oh, Matt said this about you. 1361 01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:43,760 He'd do the same with me and Tom. 1362 01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:46,760 And obviously I think Tom come from some clean racing and 1363 01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:49,560 suddenly I was getting my elbows the same was like John 1364 01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:53,000 Christophe bully on when he came, he got the he got the pox 1365 01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:57,000 because suddenly he left the door open and there was I was 1366 01:17:57,000 --> 01:18:00,920 down the inside. And but it's just BTC racing, 1367 01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:05,000 which I've said to other people, it's not pretty, it's brutal, 1368 01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:09,360 but it's it's you know, you blink you you know, you you've 1369 01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:14,320 lost a place and you know, you people can be too soft or too 1370 01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:16,160 nice. It's as long as you you don't 1371 01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:20,080 sort of be a clown with it. You know, it's it's hard racing. 1372 01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:24,400 I'd come from motocross and one make racing and it's, it's, it's 1373 01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:27,720 you know, you, you've got to you've got to deliver it. 1374 01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:30,520 You know you can't. You're either going forwards or 1375 01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:32,760 backwards. And like in motocross, you, you 1376 01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:34,520 use block passes and all the rest of it. 1377 01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:38,840 So, and, and that's what that's what, you know, I I got into so. 1378 01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:43,960 In 2000 as well, you you took another victory outright at 1379 01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:47,320 Brands Hatch. What sort of has always stuck 1380 01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:51,480 out to me about that win is that despite not having the budgets 1381 01:18:51,480 --> 01:18:53,640 that we, you know, already talked about that year that all 1382 01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:56,160 the manufacturer teams had in the development that came with 1383 01:18:56,160 --> 01:18:59,800 that, you managed to win quite sort of far into the season end 1384 01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:02,920 of August. Sort of winning that far into 1385 01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:05,640 the season against that development that was going on in 1386 01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:07,120 the budgets from the other teams. 1387 01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:11,160 Was it a case that maybe that win wasn't a specialist done in 1388 01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:15,280 tonight, but did it feel almost more run that when it brands in 1389 01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:18,800 2000 because of that uphill struggle you faced against the 1390 01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:21,520 big budgets and development of the works teams that year that 1391 01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:23,920 they also had free cars to develop with as well? 1392 01:19:24,040 --> 01:19:28,480 Yeah. I think in, in 2000, we didn't 1393 01:19:28,480 --> 01:19:33,040 have the pressure of Nissan factory cars there. 1394 01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:34,960 So we were allowed a little bit more free rein. 1395 01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:40,320 But then on the flip side, we didn't have Nissan taking the 1396 01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:43,000 development forward when the other manufacturers were still, 1397 01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:45,960 you know, Ford especially, we're already pushing hard and Pro 1398 01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:47,600 Drive, we're already pushing hard at that point. 1399 01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:52,600 I think it's like, I think you've got a little bit of luck. 1400 01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:57,040 It was, it was a pretty, it was a smaller grid back then, but it 1401 01:19:57,040 --> 01:20:00,120 was still pretty competitive. There was some, some heavy 1402 01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:03,880 hitters, you know, on the on the grid. 1403 01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:07,960 So it was there was some hard racing still going on. 1404 01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:11,120 I think I was just lucky at the time. 1405 01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:12,920 Yeah, I was. I was unlucky in other races and 1406 01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:17,280 I was lucky in that one, so. And you know, I had 1407 01:20:17,320 --> 01:20:20,520 Christensen's pants down Tom Christen's last corner. 1408 01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:24,680 Helped relations then, obviously. 1409 01:20:24,840 --> 01:20:26,160 Yeah, I get on with him now, fine. 1410 01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:27,680 Same as I get on with Jason, fine. 1411 01:20:27,680 --> 01:20:31,480 Now people say to me, with the Jason thing was, was the 1412 01:20:31,480 --> 01:20:34,800 animosity real? I went at one point I would have 1413 01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:36,800 burnt his house down. I really would have done. 1414 01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:40,400 You give me Fox matches, I've done it gladly. 1415 01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:46,200 But now I, you know, we were friends before we fell out and 1416 01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:50,360 like, I'm I concerned for his well-being now and we will go 1417 01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:51,680 out and have a beer or a bite to eat. 1418 01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:54,560 So yeah. Is this one particular race I 1419 01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:56,480 remember? There was a couple of snacks. 1420 01:20:56,480 --> 01:20:59,560 I mean, he was a fucker. Yeah, he would. 1421 01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:02,320 I think Jason and I are similar in one way. 1422 01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:04,320 We're very different in another way. 1423 01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:07,800 I think Jason is fiercely competitive. 1424 01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:11,240 He would win at any cost. Any cost. 1425 01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:16,040 I would win and I would. I would. 1426 01:21:16,440 --> 01:21:18,640 Don't get me wrong, I would have your eyes out to do it, but as 1427 01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:21,120 long as I would do it, I would try and do it fairly. 1428 01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:24,720 I wouldn't do anything to you which I wouldn't like. 1429 01:21:24,720 --> 01:21:27,320 And he's on Jason wouldn't. He would. 1430 01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:33,000 And on the flip side, we're both mischievous and we both like, 1431 01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:36,280 like to have each other, get one over each other. 1432 01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:39,600 So that sort of that manifested itself out of control. 1433 01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:42,800 And you know, there was one, I think a couple of years later, 1434 01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:49,040 he was leading and I was second and ran core and he kept on 1435 01:21:49,040 --> 01:21:52,320 break checking me, like break checking me, break checking me, 1436 01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:56,400 really slowing up to try and get whoever was behind me on to me. 1437 01:21:57,000 --> 01:21:59,240 And I saw it coming each time and just managed to avoid it. 1438 01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:02,000 And then on the 5th time, he really just slammed his foot on 1439 01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:04,000 the break and I nudged in the back of him. 1440 01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:06,520 I thought I got it, but I nudged in the back of him, knocked him 1441 01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:09,600 a little bit sideways, got alongside him. 1442 01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:12,040 I thought stuff it, I've got to go for it now. 1443 01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:13,800 I just got to carry on and deal with it later. 1444 01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:17,880 So I went into the last corner, Russell or whatever it is now, 1445 01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:21,240 it's called now. And Jason comes back and he 1446 01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:24,520 fires me, like both of us. He fires me so hard. 1447 01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:28,760 We both go off and Andy Jordan comes through and wins the race 1448 01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:31,600 because it's the last or last second last lap. 1449 01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:37,320 And we all knew going through that season, we all because 1450 01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:40,080 there was, it's when they used to not hide the points. 1451 01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:43,640 Well, they did hide the points, but we all knew Jason was on 9 1452 01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:48,240 points. And after 12, then you're back 1453 01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:50,720 to the MSA or notice what UK as it is now. 1454 01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:56,280 And so we, we knew this. And so they they put a protest 1455 01:22:56,280 --> 01:23:00,320 on me that I that I, I nerfed him out or gone in the back of 1456 01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:02,760 him and saying, look, he was break jacking me, not having 1457 01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:04,400 that. He said, we're going to do you. 1458 01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:08,840 I said, OK, no problem. But you've always told us in the 1459 01:23:08,840 --> 01:23:11,720 driver's briefing that retaliation is three times worse 1460 01:23:11,720 --> 01:23:14,680 than the event itself. So give me my three points. 1461 01:23:15,480 --> 01:23:18,680 You've got to sort this one out. And I could see him like the 1462 01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:22,040 penny drop and they go, OK, right. 1463 01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:24,000 You've got to leave the Pervis, you've got to leave the office. 1464 01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:27,280 20 minutes later we get summoned back in. 1465 01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:30,000 Me and Jason and our team managers, they said right you 2. 1466 01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:33,960 We're going to brush the Sunder mat, shake hands and just get 1467 01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:35,080 out of here. I'm going. 1468 01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:37,200 No, no, no. Give me my three points. 1469 01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:41,360 I want my three points. It's the first time in my life 1470 01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:43,480 I've been begging for three points on my license. 1471 01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:48,520 I'm guilty. Do me? 1472 01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:05,480 You did have one final fling with Super Touring in 2001. 1473 01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:09,360 You did the first meeting of the season of the Tour British 1474 01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:13,240 Touring Cars with Peugeot and Victoria Lee before that deal 1475 01:24:13,640 --> 01:24:16,640 sort of fell apart. And then you ended up in the 1476 01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:19,120 European Super Touring Championship with with your 1477 01:24:19,120 --> 01:24:21,600 Nissan. For the second-half of that 1478 01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:24,800 season you won Esteril. What was that like? 1479 01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:29,560 Because I, I watched that and I went to the Silverstone meeting, 1480 01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:33,880 which you weren't in, but it always felt it was missing 1481 01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:38,760 something that the BTCC had, that this European Super Touring 1482 01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:40,680 Championship just felt a bit hollow with this. 1483 01:24:40,680 --> 01:24:43,440 Is that fair to say that's something you experienced? 1484 01:24:43,440 --> 01:24:44,920 I you know, I'd like to hear you think. 1485 01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:49,360 It's Andy Pria has struggled with this. 1486 01:24:49,440 --> 01:24:52,720 You know, he's four times. They say he's 3, but he's four 1487 01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:57,640 times world champion. Yeah, race and that and but I 1488 01:24:57,640 --> 01:24:59,680 can walk down the street and I'm better known than he is in the 1489 01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:02,760 UK. But the BTC has the, the 1490 01:25:02,760 --> 01:25:08,520 rivalries, the, you know, the known names, the European and, 1491 01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:13,760 and world as it ended up as the, you know, mega drivers. 1492 01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:18,520 I think when, when I went out there, the Nissan was fast. 1493 01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:22,400 Nissan wouldn't give us all the stuff that they've been running 1494 01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:26,960 previously, but that was OK because the car was still fast. 1495 01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:30,080 But it was, it was fragile. You know, you go against the 1496 01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:32,840 alphas and the Audis out there and they were built like Sherman 1497 01:25:33,160 --> 01:25:36,160 tanks. And I ended up with a big, big 1498 01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:42,760 bit of with them, especially with there was a couple of the 1499 01:25:42,760 --> 01:25:45,920 Audis were nutters. I can't remember their names. 1500 01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:50,880 And anyway, there was one of the other guys. 1501 01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:53,720 Anyway, there was Giovinardi. He was in the alpha and he was 1502 01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:57,200 up for the championship. And we ended up having A and I 1503 01:25:57,200 --> 01:26:00,760 always ended up worse off because the, the the Nissan was 1504 01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:03,000 so fragile. I remember we got to Harama and 1505 01:26:03,680 --> 01:26:07,400 we have the big drivers briefing and Monica Sips is and they all 1506 01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:10,360 were a bit like the mafia down there, the you know, and 1507 01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:15,080 technology and they've got Nicola, Rene Giovinardi, I can't 1508 01:26:15,080 --> 01:26:19,720 remember who, a bunch of them. Felipe Massa was in one at some 1509 01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:23,000 point as well. And anyway, I went to the the 1510 01:26:23,160 --> 01:26:25,360 and Juvenardi at that point, his English was pretty poor. 1511 01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:29,840 Anyway, I went from the back of the drivers briefing and we'd 1512 01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:33,160 had to run in the last few meetings and I waited for him 1513 01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:35,520 and I went for a bit to. I just want to wish you well for 1514 01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:37,600 the weekend, I said. But do me a favour, don't come 1515 01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:39,800 near me, I said. If you come near me and you hit 1516 01:26:39,800 --> 01:26:43,440 me, I said I'm going to get you. I said if I don't get you on the 1517 01:26:43,440 --> 01:26:45,480 track, I'm going to come and find you and I'm going to get 1518 01:26:45,480 --> 01:26:50,400 you and he's going to understand. 1519 01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:52,720 Monica Sips understands every word. 1520 01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:57,920 So I said no, no, there's no problem, just tell him to stay 1521 01:26:57,920 --> 01:26:59,280 away from me and we'll get on fine. 1522 01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:04,560 And anyway, he qualified 2 rows behind me on the grid. 1523 01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:09,520 The lights go on before everyone's moved. 1524 01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:13,120 He's gone and he the last thing I see is his car coming over the 1525 01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:16,240 top of mine as he's hit me and I literally didn't go out. 1526 01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:20,760 My box destroyed my car and I couldn't find him anyway. 1527 01:27:22,320 --> 01:27:27,640 Then I think Silverstone's the next round and they used to, but 1528 01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:30,960 it was proper racing then because he used to have the, the 1529 01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:34,560 first races you qualify, there's two races and then the second 1530 01:27:34,560 --> 01:27:39,440 race they reversed the whole grid, which is fun. 1531 01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:41,200 I've tried to get Gal into it but he won't do it. 1532 01:27:42,480 --> 01:27:49,880 And, and anyway, so I, I think I finished third in the first race 1533 01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:52,560 or something. I had a good first race and so 1534 01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:55,040 it was how quickly you can make it through the traffic because 1535 01:27:55,040 --> 01:27:58,120 the next one was fast. Anyway, I had a blinding first 1536 01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:00,080 lap at Silverstone. You all want to do well at your 1537 01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:02,520 home race, don't you? First race and I got up to about 1538 01:28:02,880 --> 01:28:06,560 5th by about the veil and I'm going really well. 1539 01:28:06,840 --> 01:28:09,120 Suddenly going into the veil, it's tight left-hander. 1540 01:28:09,440 --> 01:28:13,720 I got this whack up the back. I'm going fuck's sake. 1541 01:28:14,040 --> 01:28:15,800 So I'm down, I'm going back down the field again. 1542 01:28:16,520 --> 01:28:18,520 My old boy comes on the radio because he's on the radio to me. 1543 01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:20,800 They could see it on TV. He goes ah, Gillian Bernardi hit 1544 01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:23,200 you up the ass and I went really, was he near me? 1545 01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:26,280 No. And I said Are you sure? 1546 01:28:26,520 --> 01:28:28,600 Yeah, yeah, Jim Bernardi sort of rage. 1547 01:28:28,640 --> 01:28:31,920 I just filled with rage at this point and they go right. 1548 01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:36,040 I could see him like well, so I get my head down. 1549 01:28:36,040 --> 01:28:38,040 I'm trying to catch him up anyway. 1550 01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:40,720 I'm even more annoyed I couldn't catch him by the end of the 1551 01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:42,400 race. So I catch him up on we cross 1552 01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:45,520 finish line, checker flag catch up on the slang down lap. 1553 01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:50,160 I pull alongside him, ram him, which now you can get done for. 1554 01:28:50,560 --> 01:28:53,520 So then his arms go all up in the air. 1555 01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:56,000 He's waving his arms at me in very. 1556 01:28:56,280 --> 01:28:59,080 Terms all Italian. I'm waving my arms at him, 1557 01:28:59,080 --> 01:29:01,000 going. I'm going to get you all the 1558 01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:02,800 rest of it. Anyway, it turns out it wasn't 1559 01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:04,520 invited me at all, it was someone else. 1560 01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:11,600 I did go and apologize to him, but we really didn't get on. 1561 01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:15,480 And then it was quite surreal when he came to the UK back in, 1562 01:29:15,880 --> 01:29:20,480 whenever he did O6O7, he didn't know anybody. 1563 01:29:20,480 --> 01:29:26,320 And then and I, he knew me even though we hadn't got on and we 1564 01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:31,360 became best friends. You know, I'm it's like me and 1565 01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:32,640 Jason, it's all water under the bridge. 1566 01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:35,360 And no, for Britz I'll keep still keep in touch with now. 1567 01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:39,080 And he's he's a proper good lad and obviously his teammate in I 1568 01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:42,200 think 08/09. I think we had. 1569 01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:44,760 We had a blinding time together. It was it was really good fun. 1570 01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:47,160 He's got a temper on him. He's very Italian. 1571 01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:50,520 How how was that transition for you then to been in obviously 1572 01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:53,360 dynamics with family team for such a long time to then go and 1573 01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:57,560 race for Vauxhall in the BTC to see him and it doesn't probably 1574 01:29:57,560 --> 01:29:58,840 get more high pressure than that. 1575 01:29:59,120 --> 01:30:02,080 Did you feel the pressure or did you enjoy stepping away from the 1576 01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:04,160 normal environment or? I enjoyed it. 1577 01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:08,040 I enjoyed stepping into your own own space and doing your own 1578 01:30:08,040 --> 01:30:11,840 thing. And I'd done a bit of it before 1579 01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:13,480 down in Australia and all that sort of stuff. 1580 01:30:13,480 --> 01:30:17,600 So, but I enjoyed it. You know, I, it was a shame. 1581 01:30:17,600 --> 01:30:21,520 I thought I'd done a good job in, I'd done Voxlin Honda at the 1582 01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:24,480 beginning of the noughties at night with the egg team and that 1583 01:30:24,480 --> 01:30:27,960 sort of stuff. So I enjoyed that and you know, 1584 01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:31,560 it was because you're you're doing your own thing. 1585 01:30:31,800 --> 01:30:34,760 I love, you know, the time we've had with Dynamics is magical 1586 01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:38,080 because it's a big family affair and what I've enjoyed doing my 1587 01:30:38,080 --> 01:30:41,800 own thing as well, so. You've obviously you, you were, 1588 01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:46,520 you were a triple BTCC champion, Matt and coming to the end of 1589 01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:49,520 the of the show now we, we've taken a large amount of your 1590 01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:51,320 time this evening. So thank you for that. 1591 01:30:52,520 --> 01:30:55,120 What's what's happening for Matt and Neil these days? 1592 01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:58,120 What's what are you up to? What are dynamics up to? 1593 01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:02,400 You're enjoying, you're enjoying your classic racing now. 1594 01:31:04,040 --> 01:31:05,560 I'm really enjoying my classic racing. 1595 01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:10,240 I was lucky that I got into asked to drive by Tuttles. 1596 01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:13,680 Probably the year is it the year after? 1597 01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:16,600 The year after I I stopped full time Yeah. 1598 01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:23,360 Helping. They've got a tall novice driver 1599 01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:31,240 racing in the Porsche Toolies Cup in Europe and could I help 1600 01:31:31,240 --> 01:31:35,800 him and maybe be a team? He was tall so I would fit being 1601 01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:40,040 a teammate for him. And I've spent the last three 1602 01:31:40,040 --> 01:31:43,120 years going around Europe with with Steve and he's been great. 1603 01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:48,520 I mean, he's a, he's a great guy, lovely family and similar 1604 01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:50,160 sort of. And we've had a lot of laughs. 1605 01:31:50,160 --> 01:31:55,080 And yeah, the, the historic paddock is it's less pressure. 1606 01:31:55,120 --> 01:31:57,840 You still want to perform and you still got yourself pressure. 1607 01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:00,640 And you know, the, the competitiveness is still there 1608 01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:03,720 and it's great. You know, the Peter Auto Series 1609 01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:08,040 is fantastic that if I hit your car, I've got to pay a minimum 1610 01:32:08,040 --> 01:32:12,240 of 50% of the repair bill, which I think is, is a really good 1611 01:32:12,240 --> 01:32:14,200 thing because people's people are competitive. 1612 01:32:14,200 --> 01:32:16,760 People want to win and people will go for it, but they make 1613 01:32:16,760 --> 01:32:18,800 some think twice before being a goon. 1614 01:32:19,280 --> 01:32:20,640 Alan Gall's never going to go for that man. 1615 01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:24,080 Yeah, I suggested it. I've suggested it. 1616 01:32:24,360 --> 01:32:25,680 He just looked to me and rolled his eyes. 1617 01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:26,840 I think. Yeah, yeah. 1618 01:32:27,360 --> 01:32:30,360 Yeah, go for that. He wants the entertainment. 1619 01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:34,400 But a dynamics now we've got the accelerator based out of 1620 01:32:35,200 --> 01:32:37,080 Hyundai's. Yes, of course, yeah. 1621 01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:40,960 And so we're giving him some engineering support and, and 1622 01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:43,640 help on the racing. And then we're, we're prepping 1623 01:32:43,640 --> 01:32:47,440 some new, some old stuff, some sexy stuff and some more modern 1624 01:32:47,840 --> 01:32:51,160 classics, Porsches and Zytecs for, for people. 1625 01:32:51,160 --> 01:32:56,280 So it's different and, but I think it's, it's the way the 1626 01:32:56,280 --> 01:32:59,920 future is. You know, I think where I 1627 01:32:59,920 --> 01:33:02,720 struggle with touring cars is the business bottles broken as 1628 01:33:02,720 --> 01:33:04,400 far as I, you know, from my side. 1629 01:33:04,400 --> 01:33:07,880 And I'll probably get shot down for saying it, but it's so 1630 01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:11,920 expensive now and then with the current environment and, well, 1631 01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:13,640 we live in it. It's a bit, little bit broken 1632 01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:16,120 when the manufacturers are all into it and behind it. 1633 01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:19,240 It's sort of half stacked up. Yeah. 1634 01:33:19,240 --> 01:33:21,280 When you've got to start generating the money, it's hard 1635 01:33:21,280 --> 01:33:25,120 to justify the return on investment to sponsors and 1636 01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:28,680 investors and all the rest of it unless you've got daddy or 1637 01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:32,160 whatever, you know, with a big bag of cash behind you, which is 1638 01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:38,520 not what it's all about for me. So, you know, the classic side 1639 01:33:38,520 --> 01:33:46,160 is people who want to go racing. Well, Matt, I think we'll leave 1640 01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:50,040 it there for tonight because as I said, we've taken up enough of 1641 01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:53,360 your very valuable time and we'd just like to thank you for 1642 01:33:53,360 --> 01:33:57,080 coming along and and spending a couple of hours with us and 1643 01:33:57,080 --> 01:33:58,480 sharing your stories with the listeners. 1644 01:33:58,480 --> 01:34:00,000 So. Cheers boys, thanks for being so 1645 01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:03,680 gentle with me. Will we ever see you? 1646 01:34:03,680 --> 01:34:05,880 Will we ever see you in a super tour again, Matt? 1647 01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:08,320 Will you ever get in one if someone invites you into one? 1648 01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:10,760 I guess. I got invited down to the one 1649 01:34:10,760 --> 01:34:13,840 next year and I've at the moment I've said my diary's free. 1650 01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:17,560 Oh. And I was meant to, I was, I 1651 01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:20,680 did, I did. They've just said am I free that 1652 01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:26,160 weekend? I did get invited by down to 1653 01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:30,760 Nigel Barclay. Listen in New Zealand this last 1654 01:34:31,320 --> 01:34:33,240 January or February and I was going to do it. 1655 01:34:33,240 --> 01:34:36,960 And then there was a, you know, Nigel had family dramas and 1656 01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:38,440 everything and it was a load of issues. 1657 01:34:38,440 --> 01:34:41,400 So I ended up not going at the end, but I was up for doing 1658 01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:45,640 that, which would have been fun with with Murph and and Richard 1659 01:34:45,640 --> 01:34:47,320 down there. So that would have been good to 1660 01:34:47,320 --> 01:34:49,720 catch up with them. Yeah, they were great fun last 1661 01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:53,960 year at Super Touring Power and obviously had one of your cars, 1662 01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:57,280 Greg Murphy was racing one of your old dynamics in the sand. 1663 01:34:57,280 --> 01:34:59,080 So yeah, it'd be, it'd be. I still think that. 1664 01:34:59,120 --> 01:35:00,560 Both of them are still pretty handy. 1665 01:35:00,960 --> 01:35:04,160 Yes, yeah, yeah. No, no slow cheers, but but no. 1666 01:35:04,160 --> 01:35:07,440 Matt, thanks again very much for your time and and yeah, thanks 1667 01:35:07,440 --> 01:35:08,400 for everything. Cheers boys. 1668 01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:10,040 Thanks. Yeah, nice one. 1669 01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:13,360 Meanwhile, make sure you join us again next week, where we'll be 1670 01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:18,080 joined by Greg Haynes to look back at the 2000 BTCC season 1671 01:35:18,080 --> 01:35:21,280 finale at Silverstone, which happened to be the last ever 1672 01:35:21,280 --> 01:35:25,760 BTCC Super Toy Race held. Until then, we'll see you next 1673 01:35:25,760 --> 01:35:26,800 week. Goodbye.