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Stories from Super Touring. 
Hello and welcome to Series 4 of

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Stories From Super Touring. 
That's right, we're back for 

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another series where we look 
back at the Super Touring era of

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touring car racing. 
Now as usual, joining me Al 

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Clark are my two Co hosts from 
stories from super Touring, Adam

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Jones and Levi Riley. 
Guys, how are we both? 

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Are we ready for another series 
of the show? 

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Yeah, really good. 
Super excited to be back. 

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I can't wait to get these 
recordings underway. 

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I know we've got some some 
really exciting names lined up 

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and yeah, I can not wait. 
Yes, you're right. 

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I mean, Levi, we're starting off
with a bang, aren't we? 

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This week's guest. 
He's a real Corker, isn't he? 

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It's a, it's a. 
Very exciting. 

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It's not someone that speaks to 
media or or anyone publicly 

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about his. 
His career much Rich is very 

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exciting that he's gifted us 
some of his time and Series 4 is

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this. 
It's mental that we're here 

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already. 
But I mean, I know we say every 

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series, but I do think this is 
maybe the biggest series we've 

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done yet as well. 
I think we can. 

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I think one thing we can promise
to the listeners is this will be

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the best series yet. 
So let's start as we mean to 

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continue, shall we? 
Now today's guest is someone 

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that we've been trying to get on
the show for the past three 

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series of stories from Super 
Touring. 

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So it gives me great pleasure to
introduce him on today's show. 

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Welcome to Stories From Super 
Touring. 

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James Thompson. 
James, how are you? 

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Yeah, Good. 
Good, man. 

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Thank you. 
Yeah, very good. 

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We'll start at the start with 
you, then at the beginning you 

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you grew up in a motorsport 
background, your dad was a rally

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driver, so I'm assuming that the
Motorbug Motorsport bug bit you 

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quite early on. 
I think like anybody who who has

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a sort of a motorsport father or
you know, anybody or or mother 

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who's involved in, I mean let's 
face it, rallying was so 

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prolific back in the day. 
The 70s might be obviously my 

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generation where people, you 
know, having kids, you know, 

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rallying was was the sport to be
involved in. 

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You know, and especially, you 
know, I was a farmer's son. 

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So of course, you know the 
Yorkshire, Yorkshire mafia, 

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they're all, they're all 
farmers. 

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They all had, they all had a 
mark to escort or a Vauxhall 

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Chevette or something. 
Rallying was in its heyday back 

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then wasn't it? 
Let's face it was it was 

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incredible when when you when 
you could have a car that was 

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almost as good as the works cars
and you could run it from your 

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own garage, you know, you didn't
have a raced or a rally team or 

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anything. 
And so the passion of 

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motorsport, it was incredible. 
And you know growing up on the 

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farm, my dad, you know, I can't 
actually remember learning to 

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drive, you know, I just know I 
know I can drive because my dad 

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built me a little electric car 
when I was, I mean barely out of

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nappies. 
So I was just driving, banging 

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into stuff in the in the front 
room when you know, when I was, 

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you know, I could barely sort of
toddle about. 

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So it's just one of those things
I think if you've got family 

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passion, whether it be tennis or
golf or whatever, they put you 

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into it, you know and and you 
know, so that was it. 

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Maybe it was just a family 
passion that got me, that got me

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into it. 
In fact, it's very similar to 

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me, I think, because my my dad 
was a Co driver, my own course 

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was the driver and I was also in
the motor trade and so I was 

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brought up around it. 
I was born into it, but I had 

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the Mark One escorts. 
Mark Two escorts eventually went

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to Sierra Cosworth, and they 
always said that the Mark One 

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and Mark Two escorts were always
better cars than the Sierra 

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Cosworth ever was. 
I think it was just amazing. 

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I mean back then, I mean I think
that was like it wasn't a golden

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era you know we always said 
about the touring cars and all 

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that sort of stuff. 
But you needed you needed big 

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teams to run it. 
You know whereas rallying back 

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in the day in that sort of 70s 
and and 80s people could run a 

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mark to escort. 
You know they're buying parts 

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from my uncle Yuck speed and and
all all the all the people in in

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our sort of northern sort of 
group. 

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And I'm sure there's you know 
people from Cumbria and you know

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up north, further up north. 
But you could run it from your 

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garage and that made that made 
it easy. 

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You know, you could go on a 
world champion event and and 

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have a car that was almost as 
good as Hanu Nikola's or that 

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made it fascinating because all 
of a sudden you get, you know, a

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guy from Barton Hill who was 
competing on the the RAC rally 

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which used to start in Harrogate
back in the day, you know, and 

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finishing in the top 20, you 
know and and against all these 

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the works teams, you know, that 
doesn't happen these days. 

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You know, because everything is 
so there's so much money 

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involved in at this. 
You know you need so many people

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to run the cars. 
You know, I I I love that sort 

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of generation. 
It was mega, a lot of them. 

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My dad used to turn up with a 
couple of guys from work and 

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stuff. 
There's you know on the front 

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Thursday finished and just throw
it on the back of the trailer on

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the back of the range driver and
they'll just go off and do these

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these forest rallies, the Isle 
of Man, you know the door of 

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these rallies and it was 
amazing. 

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I went to some of them also. 
I was very young so I can't 

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remember a lot of it, but so how
involved were you James it with 

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that? 
It like do you remember was you,

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was you really involved in it, 
got going there with them or was

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you literally? 
I used to see a lot of the 

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wrecks that my dad used to bring
back up. 

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Yeah, there's there's quite a 
few, quite a few of them under 

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Qatar Paulins in our driveway at
some point. 

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Yeah, yeah, my dad was, my dad 
was a very, very, very good 

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driver. 
But he had a if he was going to 

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have an accident, he was having 
a big accident. 

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And and rallying was like that, 
wasn't it? 

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They always tend to be like not 
a Silverstone when you got loads

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of run off. 
These were like failed trees. 

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You know, and he and he always, 
he always aired on the 

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eccentric. 
He was always trying to drive 

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something that nobody else was 
going to drive. 

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And I guess, well, I get that 
little bit of character of 

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myself, but I was involved. 
I guess I maybe missed a little 

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bit because you know, the whole 
thing for me with the rally and 

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what I used to love was there 
was always like a Bedford CF2 

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van with the tyre rack on the 
top, you know, and there's. 

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And at the time, you know, the 
rally was amazing because, you 

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know, not necessarily amazing 
for Rd. safety. 

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But in terms of if you had to 
get from service A to service B 

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and you only had a certain 
amount of time and you had to be

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there. 
So you had to drive like the 

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clappers with all the stuff, 
with the fuel, the spare tire. 

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Without getting stopped by the 
police because the police were 

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waiting for most of them. 
It still happens now. 

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And that was the whole thing. 
It was almost like, I guess a 

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little bit like a Paradaca, 
Paradaca style thing where you 

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had to be there at that certain 
point in time otherwise you 

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missed the the service. 
You know, it's all, it's all 

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much more sedate now. 
Every stage in one place, the 

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cars arrived service and off 
they go. 

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But it was more like a it was a 
full team event. 

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So I was involved with that, but
you know, I was mainly lots of 

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like, tea boy and Irish coffee 
boy. 

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You did start out doing some 
rallying yourselves, so it might

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have surprised a few to see you 
start in Formula Vauxhall in 

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1992. 
Racing on a track for the first 

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time was sort of did you want to
continue running or did you 

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always sort of see yourself 
moving into circuit racing? 

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Never, never ever. 
I always grown up. 

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I always wanted to be World 
Rally Champion. 

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Always the only thing I used to 
watch all the rallying all the 

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time. 
I was literally just that's all 

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I wanted to do like circuit 
racing. 

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I was like circuit racing really
what we can go in forests, we 

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can go through trees, we can you
know. 

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But you know, unfortunately the 
change in dynamic of motor sport

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in that sort of period between 
late 80s men that basically, you

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know, professional rally drivers
almost died out, didn't they, in

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that sort of period of time and 
touring cars at the time was 

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taken off. 
And so my dad you know, said to 

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me at the time, he said well 
listen, I know, listen lad, I 

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know you want to be a rally 
driver but there's no, there's 

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no brass in it. 
There's no brass. 

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So why don't you, why don't you 
give, give the circuits a go. 

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So I was like, oh, I'm not 
really sure about this, but 

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anyway, but you know, guided by 
my dad, you sort of you give, 

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you know you give it a go. 
So, but it was a massive change.

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I never looked at racing at all,
you know, like all the way up 

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until like I was sort of 16, you
know, 17, you know, I'd never 

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been thought about karting. 
I did a few Kart events, but 

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nothing. 
It was only like as a bit of a 

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crash course. 
Well, sorry, crash course, crash

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course. 
To try to get me into, like, you

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know, actual racing. 
I had no idea how to race. 

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I mean, you didn't. 
You didn't do too badly 

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considering it was your first 
year in a in a track car, You 

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won the second time out at Orton
Park and then won again at 

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Brands Hatch, so it's not a bad 
debut season. 

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Yeah, I don't know. 
I was. 

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I couldn't coming from driving, 
especially growing up, driving 

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back to Escort and I I always 
felt like I always felt safe 

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when I was sideways. 
It's, it sounds silly, but you 

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know when you're when you're 
driving the car, it's sideways 

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and it just comes naturally to 
you and you're scrubbing off 

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speed. 
It's quite a safe. 

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So first time on the race tracks
driving and not not actually 

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letting the car slide, I found 
it quite disconcerting. 

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So my my first of the team 
manager is like, well why, why 

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why are you always sideways? 
I'm like, well, because it feels

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safe to me. 
It goes well, looks bloody 

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dangerous to everybody else. 
That's why I didn't get 

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overtaken much. 
It was too. 

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It was too afraid. 
So this man's out of control. 

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What's? 
Going on make it look really 

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dangerous. 
People just back off a little 

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bit. 
For this series of stories from 

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Super Touring, we are delighted 
to be teaming up with Brands 

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Hatch to give away 2 tickets to 
Super Touring Power 2, which is 

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being held at the famous circuit
on the 29th and 30th of June 

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2024. 
The award nominated event was a 

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00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,040
smash hit last year when it's 
debut edition transported fans 

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back to the 90s and this year's 
event will once again celebrate 

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one of touring car racing's most
fondly remembered eras. 

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00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,840
To enter the competition, just 
answer the following question. 

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Who was the first ever guest to 
star on Stories from Super 

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00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,760
Touring? 
Send your answers to Pod at 

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00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:47,400
1990s btcc.com and we'll 
announce the winner on a later 

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episode this series. 
Meanwhile, let's get back to the

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episode. 
So after that season then mean 

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single seizures, you moved on to
the National Saloon Car Cup 

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racing Honda Civic. 
How did that then come about 

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then going from the one to the 
other and that was the Honda 

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Champion of tomorrow's 
scholarship. 

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00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,960
Is that what it was at the time?
Yeah well it was. 

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That was down to the fact that 
basically being honest when the 

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circuit racing, when you look at
it and you you look at all the 

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steps and the ladders and you 
know how how much you've got to 

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fund to get to any point where 
you can start earning a living 

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is is just ridiculous. 
And you know we we've, like I 

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say we were farmers and my dad 
like you looked at it looked at 

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00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:35,600
it initially from rallying 
perspective where you just buy 

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the car and you go rally. 
But circuit racing is so 

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different. 
You know you've got you you 

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start in Vauxhall Junior then it
was it was Vauxhall Lotus and it

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was Formula Three and then it 
was you know Formula 3000 was 

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it. 
So there's so many there were so

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00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:52,080
many layers to it and everywhere
more and more expensive. 

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00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,520
So we we did that first year 
that the formula Vauxhall 

222
00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,520
Junior, which was you know which
was great Vauxhall did a great, 

223
00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,760
a great job with it. 
But then it was like well this 

224
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,040
is not sustainable you know we 
can't do that and luckily and 

225
00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:12,520
and I will say Honda back in the
day was amazing because I don't 

226
00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,280
think I don't know of any other 
scholarship that's been there to

227
00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,160
run six cars in one of the top 
saloon car championships in the 

228
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,000
country. 
You know six young up and coming

229
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,200
drivers with a view to give it 
to you and bear in mind we're 

230
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,480
talking about it. 
It costs two and a half 1000 lbs

231
00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:33,640
for the season. 
So if you were selected that is 

232
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,000
what you paid to to compete in 
the second best saloon car 

233
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,800
championship in the country for 
a full year with a with a 

234
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,800
really, really good team. 
I mean you you you snapped your 

235
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:46,480
hand off for that, wouldn't you?
It's unheard of. 

236
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,400
Isn't it completely unheard? 
Of I mean it. 

237
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,680
So it was amazing. 
So to be fair you know caps off 

238
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:55,360
to to to Honda and they they did
something that's for those there

239
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,360
was two years of it and it was 
absolutely fantastic and they 

240
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:04,200
they created a lot of careers 
you know and you know it's never

241
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,560
been done since I don't think in
British moats but. 

242
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,160
No, I can't think of a programme
quite like that since, no. 

243
00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,000
And were you, were you more 
comfortable back in a a closed 

244
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,160
closed wheel car roof over your 
head again? 

245
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,080
Was that a bit helpful and sort 
of adapting to that, that 

246
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,320
circuit racing experience? 
Yeah, because I was pretty 

247
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:29,280
claustrophobic when it came out.
It's really strange, isn't it? 

248
00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,640
You know you're used to putting 
on windscreen wipers and stuff. 

249
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,200
Yeah. 
Yeah, you're seeing a single 

250
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:35,880
single. 
I'm thinking, shit, I can see 

251
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:41,200
the front wheels, you know, 
usually see anything you know. 

252
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,560
So you know it's it's just a 
really funny it's a funny 

253
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:49,400
situation like single six is is 
very strange from somebody who's

254
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,320
grown up, always been surrounded
with a roof and windows and you 

255
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:58,360
know look, you know, looking out
the side windows, you know, that

256
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,520
was that sort of thing. 
It's like, you know as valley 

257
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,040
boys like, oh look, I was 
looking out the side window and 

258
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,160
that's where that's where you 
look too. 

259
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,520
You weren't bothered about it 
missing up a bit in the front 

260
00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:09,120
one. 
It was like the side window. 

261
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,200
You feel very you know, I, I, I 
doffed my capsule. 

262
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:19,160
You feel very vulnerable. 
Yeah, master me for me. 

263
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,680
You're sitting there, you know, 
and literally everything sort of

264
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,480
taped around you just sort of 
your arms are in, you know, 

265
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,400
you've got the steering wheel. 
You can see the wheels. 

266
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,320
It's very, it's very, it's very 
exposed. 

267
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:32,200
Yeah. 
As you say, you don't know any 

268
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,640
better, do you? 
So you just, but yeah. 

269
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,200
It is what it is, yeah. 
It's as good as it gets. 

270
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,760
But instinctively, when you do 
sit in the car and you feel 

271
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,360
slightly uncomfortable before 
before you're even up to speed, 

272
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,560
then you know it's probably not 
the right thing to be doing. 

273
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,400
You want you win your class 
outright, the championship that 

274
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,920
year, so you won it overall. 
Were you at that point already 

275
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,800
looking at the BTC? 
So is a serious option moving 

276
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,960
forward or is it still a little 
bit further away than or was it 

277
00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,160
or was you actually was it in 
your, is it in your mind at that

278
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,120
point thinking right, this is it
now? 

279
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,120
I don't know it was a difficult 
one because like the 

280
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,560
championship was was really 
well, I mean that's it was 

281
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,200
called the the Break in the 
Mould National Salute Car 

282
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,640
Championship And to be honest 
there was a lot of really good 

283
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,680
old boys, as in I don't mean old
as in you know, ancient guys, 

284
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,640
but as in really good old 
professional drivers who were 

285
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,200
well funded. 
They brought, they had the 

286
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:36,120
Escort Cosworths and all the 
fancy stuff and we had like 6. 

287
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,920
We had six categories, whatever.
There's like 30 or 3035 cars on 

288
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,360
the grid. 
It was really, really a very 

289
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:52,360
good championship and I right, 
enjoyed it, right, Enjoyed it. 

290
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,800
And there was something really 
nice about finishing the top six

291
00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,440
with like 1600 specific B.Tech, 
like. 

292
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,000
And you've got these, you've got
the historic Cosmos going, pass 

293
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,000
you down the straight like the 
cat on the hot tin roof. 

294
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,120
And then all of a sudden you, 
you get past them at the corners

295
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,840
and look, I guess it's probably 
a little bit like some of the 

296
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:13,600
historic races where you see the
minis. 

297
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,800
The Mini against the Mustangs 
and the big forwards, yeah. 

298
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,240
A good one and it and it was a 
bit like that. 

299
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,520
So it was, it was it for me, it 
was really fun. 

300
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:25,400
And I guess it was just the cars
were great to drive. 

301
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,200
They were so funny. 
You could extract everything out

302
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,720
of them and they gave us an 
ability to to compete well above

303
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,000
our, you know, what we should 
have done, you know, time to 

304
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,320
your question. 
I don't think I'd ever thought 

305
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,840
about, you know, jumping 
straight into touring cars after

306
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:40,880
that. 
But ultimately when you've won 

307
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,320
that championship, then the only
thing you can do after that is 

308
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,840
do the touring car. 
You know, you have to at some 

309
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:48,520
point you've just got, you've 
just got to go for it. 

310
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,240
I mean people always, always ask
me about, you have to say, Oh 

311
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,600
well, yeah, my son's doing this 
and this and the other and you 

312
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:56,880
know, how many years should have
given this. 

313
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:58,640
I said just straighten the deep 
end. 

314
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,720
You know, don't, don't mess 
about, you know, if you, if you 

315
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,560
can be involved in touring cars 
as young as possible, do it. 

316
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,480
You know, I think it's changed 
over the years now because 

317
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,560
obviously you can buy your way 
in, etcetera, but that doesn't 

318
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,319
mean that you're any less of a 
driver. 

319
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,160
But it just meant for me, I 
would always say just get 

320
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,599
involved in the highest level 
you possibly can, as long as you

321
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:24,040
you can have a couple of years, 
right? 

322
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:25,880
Just to find your feet, 
whatever. 

323
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,680
Don't put your foot around on 
doing this championship outside 

324
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,040
of it or just get straight 
involved with it. 

325
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,840
Sooner you'll be up to speed, 
won't you? 

326
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,800
Exactly. 
And you'll And then you start to

327
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,080
learn at that level. 
You know, you don't have to 

328
00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:41,280
second guess. 
If you do a couple of years at a

329
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,760
lower level, then you go, Oh no,
straight in, just get involved 

330
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,080
with it and if you're good 
enough you'll you'll you'll rise

331
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:53,280
and stop straight away. 
You then did make the move to 

332
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:58,120
the the BTCC after that in a as 
an independent with an XC and 

333
00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:02,120
Flux Peugeot. 
Was that tough to get the deal 

334
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:05,560
together on that one? 
It was an older Peugeot, wasn't 

335
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,440
it, from Mick Linford, and so 
was that a tough one to get 

336
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,520
together? 
Yeah, well, we ran it from our 

337
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,200
garage, so we had an old horse 
box. 

338
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,600
And yeah, it was, it was wing 
and a prayer, basically. 

339
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,000
I mean, it was basically Mick, 
Mick to bless him. 

340
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,920
You know, he gave us everything 
he possibly could with regards 

341
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:26,800
to the car. 
But I mean, you know, the 

342
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,600
Peugeot wasn't competitive like 
it was 2 years old. 

343
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,360
It wasn't even competitive when 
it was new. 

344
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:36,800
So I mean, what could you expect
to get out of it? 

345
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,200
But Mick, to be fair, was always
a big fan. 

346
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,720
He was with with my dad with 
rally and they were good mates 

347
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,200
and as I say rally and mafia, 
they will stick together 

348
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,600
ultimately. 
They've been through a lot, you 

349
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,800
know, and I was very lucky with 
that and. 

350
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:54,280
Alicia. 
Alicia had the trust with Mick 

351
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:55,760
there then. 
If your dad knew him from old. 

352
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,120
Anyway, through the rally, 
Alicia had that trust with him 

353
00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:00,400
till you knew what he was 
telling you, what you were 

354
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:01,560
getting. 
He was there it. 

355
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,080
Wouldn't it wouldn't happen 
without Mick, you know? 

356
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:06,560
And so that was really nice, 
yeah. 

357
00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:10,680
But then once you got the car, 
you got to fuck out. 

358
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:15,120
You got to try and do something 
with it, I'm sure make it be the

359
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:18,040
first to say that you know it 
wasn't the best car. 

360
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,040
Yeah, we we, we had him on last 
series and he explained quite 

361
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,040
nicely just why the whole 
Peugeot situation was just such 

362
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,360
a sorry mess for him. 
It it didn't sound great, but I 

363
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:32,280
mean, you say about making an 
impact, I mean you made pretty 

364
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,920
much an immediate impact at the 
final TOCA test that year 

365
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,440
because it was a wet session and
you put the car forth. 

366
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,360
Overall, I think there's only 
tar Queenie Rose and Radisich 

367
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:43,440
were ahead of you. 
I mean, that's not a bad start 

368
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,360
and not a bad introduction to 
the paddock, is it? 

369
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,000
But perhaps the biggest 
impression was made by James 

370
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,440
Thompson. 
Though lap two drama curtailed 

371
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:58,560
his race, an engine blow up was 
a sad end to a great debut for 

372
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,080
the 19 year old newcomer. 
Who was a Suprem for fastest in 

373
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,880
wet testing? 
Well, I've never seen so many 

374
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,680
people around the back of our 
horse box. 

375
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,600
I'll tell you what, Betty takes 
bets on the Grand National. 

376
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:14,200
There we go. 
It was. 

377
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,880
It was really quite funny. 
And I saw the timesheets. 

378
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,200
I'm like, oh, what the 4th? 
I'm thinking it's pretty easy. 

379
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,600
I'm hoping for a wet weekend. 
I'll tell you what, if it had 

380
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,160
been a wet weekend, it would 
have been really interesting, 

381
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,200
because that was that was easy. 
I'd never. 

382
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,240
I'd only ever been to Thruxton 
Warms. 

383
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,800
I'd never driven the car before,
so that was the first time. 

384
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,280
That was the first time in the 
car. 

385
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,280
Up against. 
That it was so nice because one 

386
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:47,400
of the guys from Michelin came 
down and just came to look at 

387
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,120
the whole situation and couldn't
believe it. 

388
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:52,520
I didn't know. 
I couldn't believe it. 

389
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,480
And it was just and he just took
me to one side and he just said 

390
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,560
wherever you want, please. 
And it was almost like saying 

391
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,200
OK, and it was amazing because 
obviously tires back in the day 

392
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,400
and I'm sure it's something 
we'll talk about going on again 

393
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,200
forward. 
But when there was that 

394
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:14,560
incredible tire battle with 
Dunlop and Pokohama and Slan and

395
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:20,040
everything and it just came from
out, I said OK, don't worry, 

396
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,560
whatever you want. 
And it was almost like, right, 

397
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:27,240
And I will look after you and it
was So what that me was an 

398
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:33,200
incredible relationship and I 
genuinely believe that I got all

399
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,120
year as good attires as anybody 
else with because I think they 

400
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,160
literally took them, took me 
under their wing a little bit 

401
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:44,240
and they really could see, you 
know the potential. 

402
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,720
And you know what for a time and
you know what it's like. 

403
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:48,800
You're only as good as what you 
know. 

404
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,680
The four points of contact were 
on the tarmac, you know. 

405
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,240
So if you don't have good tyres 
you've got to be nowhere. 

406
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,320
Well, bearing in mind as well as
like as a as a private tier, as 

407
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,000
private tier, and I mean like a 
real private tier. 

408
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,440
The top tyres, I mean bearing in
mind you had, we're talking 

409
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,880
about carbon fibre construction 
as I say. 

410
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:14,520
So you could just imagine, you 
know, a Thruxton weekend or 

411
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,640
something like that, the amount 
of tyres you would go through, I

412
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,200
mean there's no ways of 
priority, you could even think 

413
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,800
about it. 
So I think luckily for me I won 

414
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,160
a little bit of, you know, 
favour with the guys from 

415
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,080
Michelin back then and they 
looked after me really well, 

416
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,080
which was nice. 
Despite racing against some of 

417
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,800
the quick drivers in much more 
competitive equipment, we can 

418
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,960
certainly say that with the 
horsebox, but you were rarely 

419
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,960
out of the top three in class 
that season, so taking two 

420
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,640
independent wins to believe so 
You must have been absolutely 

421
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,280
thrilled with your debut year 
there, considering you know what

422
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,640
you turned up with true 
privateer. 

423
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,960
Yeah, I think the win at the 
British Grand Prix was my was my

424
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,520
favorite and bearing in mind 
like there's not many people 

425
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,240
went home after the Grand Prix 
when to watch the touring cart. 

426
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,640
So yes, yeah. 
So if you had 100,000 people on 

427
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:09,360
this on to watch the Grand Prix 
probably 60,000 stayed to watch 

428
00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:13,720
the yeah, the touring cart race 
actually, you know so that was 

429
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,080
fantastic. 
So you imagine as a young guy, 

430
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:21,920
like 19 years old, you know, to 
be on the podium and the only 

431
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,640
autograph I've ever asked for 
was Gabrielli Tacoinis when he 

432
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:30,200
won the race and I was the 
winner of the independence. 

433
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:33,800
And so for the state, it's the 
only autograph. 

434
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,160
And, you know, so that was a 
love. 

435
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:40,800
That was a lovely thing, you 
know? 

436
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:41,320
Yeah. 
That's cool. 

437
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,480
Such an incredible feeling. 
Quite want to do it. 

438
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,880
I mean just British Grand Prix, 
full stops of like he said. 

439
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,480
To be on the podium, same podium
as the the F1 drivers. 

440
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,680
The crowd's still there. 
Yeah, something, you know, it's 

441
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,520
something just, it's such a 
tracking, I guess when you've 

442
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,920
not achieved anything, those 
those sorts of things, you start

443
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:02,760
just ticking boxes where you're 
just like oh wow, just amazing. 

444
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,800
And the whole thing, the whole 
sense of occasion that that that

445
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,520
you know and competing and being
around all the people that 

446
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:15,840
you've looked at over the years.
So it just made it makes you 

447
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,400
feel very fulfilled. 
Yeah, and you were then sharing 

448
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,320
a podium with them, some of 
those guys that you looked up to

449
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,680
and saw how good they were. 
And then also you stood next to 

450
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,520
them spraying champagne and 
getting autographs. 

451
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,960
It's just. 
I think I got Carver where I 

452
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,360
was. 
Think Gabrielle in champagne, I 

453
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:38,560
think I was. 
Going into 1995 now, then you 

454
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,320
made the move to Vauxhall to 
partner John Cleland, which is a

455
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,120
moveful get a bit more 2IN a 
year. 

456
00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:47,440
We'll get a bit more in two in a
minute, but you very nearly 

457
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,480
ended up in a four of them, 
right, Didn't you? 

458
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:57,960
Good researching, actually. 
Well, funnily enough, and this 

459
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:03,720
is the the irony of it, I did a 
test at Orton Park and me and 

460
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,320
Paul Radcic used to get on 
really well. 

461
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:10,160
And I think Paul oh don't don't 
mean like, but he he always used

462
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,480
to talk to me and I I looked at 
Paul because he was the only 

463
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,080
left foot breaker in the 
championship at the time and I 

464
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,960
was I I arrived as a left foot 
breaker and everybody went, no, 

465
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,240
you never thought that'll never 
work, you can't do that this and

466
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,120
the other blah, blah, blah. 
And I was like, no, I'm going to

467
00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:26,480
stick with my process. 
This is what I do. 

468
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,400
You know I was, I was quite 
adamant about it, even though I 

469
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,040
was young. 
I was like they'd tell me not to

470
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,760
do it, but I would just, I'd 
just do it anyway, you know. 

471
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:38,600
And a lot of the time, a lot of 
the time they couldn't see on 

472
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,560
the data too much. 
So I used to get away with it 

473
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,880
but there were there was a very 
anti left foot breaking movement

474
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,280
but Paul Randstick was the only 
one who used to left foot break 

475
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,400
And so I and I identified with 
him And so Paul got me to have a

476
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,920
test with the Ford and I tested 
with him. 

477
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,960
We got on really well. 
I was, I would like to say I was

478
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,160
reasonably quick and basically 
went home. 

479
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,200
Next day, Andy Rouse rings me, 
said, right, OK, you're in for 

480
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,720
next year. 
I was like, my God, I was like 

481
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,440
jumping around. 
I was, you know, I was like kids

482
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,600
Here's just his first, like, 
conquered toy, you know, at 

483
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,840
Christmas it was on me. 
I was like, Oh my God, you know,

484
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,800
And you know, it wasn't a lot of
money, But you know what? 

485
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,120
It wasn't about the money. 
It was about career and future. 

486
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,000
I've just been involved at the 
highest level and it was just 

487
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,440
amazing. 
So that was the Friday. 

488
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,360
Monday I got a call from Andy 
Rouse. 

489
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,600
Sorry, James, we're going to 
hear some news today. 

490
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,880
I'm really sorry we signed 
Kelvin Burt. 

491
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,200
I was like, what? 
He's not even driven the car. 

492
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,600
Yeah, but. 
But, you know, I didn't say 

493
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,040
that. 
But I'm like, I was like, oh, 

494
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,200
OK, so you go from elation to 
ejection. 

495
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,480
And I was really, I was really 
lucky because Vauxhall reached 

496
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,120
out to me and they went OK, 
right. 

497
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:06,640
So we heard you did the Ford 
thing, so that come and come and

498
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,960
test last minute, come and test 
for us at Pembury. 

499
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,280
So I went to Pembury, had the 
worst pasta I've ever had in my 

500
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:22,800
life on the Italian who's been 
there, never lived in Italy and 

501
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,720
but I love the guy But I went 
there, was said to stay there 

502
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,520
for about 3 days. 
I was waiting around, waiting 

503
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,920
around, waiting around. 
Got my opportunity to do do a 

504
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:38,120
test with them. 
I drove absolutely atrociously 

505
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,640
because we had it was like a bit
of a shootout because obviously 

506
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,800
Vauxhall had quite a bit of a 
Chris Goodwin. 

507
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:49,800
We had a lot of other people 
coming through and so they had a

508
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,280
bit of a stepping stone and they
put them in the in the 

509
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,880
privateers with their cars and 
every. 

510
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,480
So they were sort of ready just 
to step in. 

511
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,360
It was JC and Jeff Allen at the 
time and and obviously Jeff was 

512
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,120
was was was a great guy and very
successful. 

513
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,760
But I think that was they were 
looking at maybe a younger guy 

514
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,600
to go on and I'm sure Jeff won't
mind me saying that, but that's 

515
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:15,760
what they were sort of looking 
at. 

516
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:23,000
And so Chris Goodwin was like 
the shoo in for that and I sort 

517
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:29,680
of went there and said to me, 
right, OK, so go out, go out and

518
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,440
do a few laps and set the car up
and then go for a qualifying 1. 

519
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:41,280
So I did set the car up as what 
I thought and then went for a 

520
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,680
qualifying run by what I didn't 
realise is because as a 

521
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,720
privateer we'd be used to only 
ever buying like 2-2 tyres. 

522
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,400
I set the car up like we were 
going to put 2 front tyres on 

523
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,160
the car to make and it was going
to be pointy and they put 4 

524
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,960
tyres on and I went round there 
and I almost understood off into

525
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:06,320
the the fast lap I think was 
slower than the safety car going

526
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:12,960
so so that was a shocker. 
But I think, I think luckily for

527
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:21,680
me what being so young and I 
guess an easy sort of pushover 

528
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,840
for John in the respect of he's 
trying to win the championship. 

529
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,560
We don't want anyone who can 
who's going to sort of threaten 

530
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,600
him. 
But we can get really good 

531
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,840
marketing from it. 
I think worked and and to be 

532
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,600
honest you know fantastic. 
To to Boxall for for for picking

533
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,240
me. 
Yeah, I mean that's that's quite

534
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,960
a tough gig, mind. 
First year as a works driver and

535
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,080
you're alongside John Cleland. 
What was your relationship like?

536
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,080
Because he's quite a character, 
isn't he? 

537
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,960
I love Jobs bits. 
Our relationship is, is, is 

538
00:29:55,040 --> 00:30:00,640
fantastic now but I mean you 
know the the honest assessment 

539
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,280
the situation was he hated being
beaten and I love him and I love

540
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,360
his fierce competitive nature. 
He's fantastic, he's fantastic 

541
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,160
like that and it drives him. 
But bearing in mind I was 

542
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:19,360
brought in when it was Michelin,
Dunlop and Yokohama, and so we 

543
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,520
had, we only had so many tires. 
And the tires were counted out 

544
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,920
of the truck into the garage and
counted back out the garage. 

545
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,320
You know, the lawsuit and all 
the other stuff that went and 

546
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,120
counted back out of the garage 
into the truck. 

547
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,360
Now each driver was only allowed
so many sets of the fancy tires.

548
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,560
So what would you do if you had 
a junior driver? 

549
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,880
Take yours. 
Exactly. 

550
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,800
So basically I was there, I had,
I was given second choice on. 

551
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,880
So John would decide whatever 
tires he wanted for the weekend 

552
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,040
take and take my tire 
allocation. 

553
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,680
So basically John would would do
all the testing. 

554
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,880
Bear in mind we tested all day 
Thursday, all day Friday. 

555
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:08,200
So we were on eight sets a day 
tires and then you choose your 

556
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,160
tires for the weekend. 
So John would do, we would do 

557
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,800
all the race runs over and then 
you go right, OK, I want those. 

558
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,960
So whatever the best tires were 
to take my allocations, I was 

559
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,640
left with the whatever was left.
Yeah. 

560
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:21,960
The shite ones. 
No, they weren't. 

561
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,600
They weren't shite. 
But you know, I mean, like, he's

562
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,640
at second best of everything, 
you know, so. 

563
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,320
But I suppose going in from your
point of view though you're 

564
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:30,480
probably happy with that to 
start up. 

565
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,240
Obviously the competitiveness in
you you probably wouldn't wasn't

566
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,200
deep down with the fact that 
look I mean with Vauxhall here 

567
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,840
that's what he wants. 
That's just get my feet under 

568
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,120
the table. 
Let's just get going. 

569
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,120
I'm. 
I'm, I'm, I'm happy with 

570
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,640
anything that gives me, you 
know, give me a shoes, tires, 

571
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,160
But I'm still here. 
You know, obviously he's a few 

572
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,000
years later on. 
If that was the case then I 

573
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,400
wouldn't bother pitching up, you
know what I mean? 

574
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,880
But I mean, at that point in 
time it's like, well, yeah, John

575
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,040
is, you know, he's British 
Touring Car Champion. 

576
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,200
They're putting everything 
behind him. 

577
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,600
We've got a winning car and he's
going to get double the tyre 

578
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,880
allocation, which is going to 
mean that he's going to be in a 

579
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,640
good place to win the 
championship as a team. 

580
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,040
That's what we've got to do and 
I could try and do the best with

581
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:19,160
what I've got, you know and 
stuff, and that's totally the 

582
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,000
right way to go about go about 
it. 

583
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,160
Nothing at that point in time. 
I think with that limited tyre 

584
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:29,040
allocation that you had, then 
having two drivers who needed to

585
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:35,760
share, that would have been, I 
remember going to Croft and we 

586
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,880
had one tyre each. 
No, no. 

587
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,320
Because there's one fancy. 
There's one fancy tyre that you 

588
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:48,040
could literally, but you could. 
Each tribe can only have one for

589
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,160
each race, like me and 
Gabrielli. 

590
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,560
So Gabrielli could have one in 
the first race and I could have 

591
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,000
one in the second, or he could 
have one in the second race. 

592
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,200
I got one in the first race and 
that was it. 

593
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,560
Oh. 
We're talking one set or just 

594
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,720
one tyre. 
One tyre for the leg. 

595
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,560
Wow. 
And. 

596
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,720
And that tie was the most 
closely guarded secret ever. 

597
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:13,120
It is like it was the biggest 
security guards you ever seen. 

598
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:20,960
Like, yeah, you wouldn't believe
it. 

599
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,560
It was amazing. 
But of course, then having one 

600
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:28,840
driver who can have the ability 
to access twice that allocation 

601
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,720
made a big difference, you know,
and to be fair, and I'm not 

602
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,120
dissing John at all because you 
know what, John, I think people 

603
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:42,720
maybe underestimate him. 
He is a very, very good race 

604
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:43,920
driver. 
Very. 

605
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:49,000
I mean, I don't think there's 
been any better race driver in 

606
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,600
touring cars than John, you 
know, I guarantee you give him 

607
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,240
a, you know, give him a bone, he
will, you know. 

608
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,200
Yeah, yeah. 
And he and he, Yeah. 

609
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:58,680
And he proved it multiple times,
didn't he? 

610
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,480
You know, the Cavalier days, 
Vectra days. 

611
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:01,440
You know, he proved. 
His. 

612
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:02,160
His class. 
You. 

613
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,560
Know numerous times yeah he. 
Is he's brilliant. 

614
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,080
I think he's just unassuming 
because he he doesn't have a 

615
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,760
fan, you know, he doesn't have a
fancy name. 

616
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,600
You know, he doesn't have a a 
Nardy or something like that, 

617
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,639
you know, Klenardy or something 
like that. 

618
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:21,760
Yeah. 
Oh my God, He's, I think English

619
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:25,000
drivers in particular to get 
sort of penalized because I 

620
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,080
think when foreign people come 
across and, you know, generally 

621
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,520
they are perceived as being so 
much more exotic than homegrown 

622
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,960
talent. 
And I would sort of disagree in 

623
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,320
some ways. 
I agree that we generally get 

624
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:45,639
the best of the best of the 
continentals coming across here.

625
00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:48,639
So yeah, of course some of us 
are not going to look quite as 

626
00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:51,800
good, you know, but we do get 
the best people otherwise. 

627
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,040
The British Championship, you 
know, was, you know, was the 

628
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,080
best in the world at the time. 
He was. 

629
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,240
And also, and you're a youngster
in a Championship that was 

630
00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:01,840
filled with a lot of more 
experienced guys than yourself 

631
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,000
at that time. 
So was that ever a problem? 

632
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:05,960
For you, honestly, I think it 
goes back to what I was saying 

633
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:07,520
before. 
I don't think. 

634
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,320
I think the younger you get in 
there, you don't have any. 

635
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,680
You have less, less of an issue 
with that. 

636
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,960
I mean, you know, shouldn't make
any difference. 

637
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,800
Yeah. 
You know, really, I mean just 

638
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:22,920
getting their drive, if you 
know, if you're good at what you

639
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,000
do, it doesn't really matter. 
I mean, you know, I I, I don't I

640
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:33,040
don't like to like spend too 
much time thinking about right, 

641
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,200
Kevin, I need to do this. 
This a different level of 

642
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:40,480
something just jump in. 
Does any of the guys have any 

643
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,560
issues with you being a bit of a
hot shot coming into it? 

644
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,280
Like try and put any manners on 
you or anything like that or. 

645
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,240
Don't think so. 
I mean, I was pretty lucky. 

646
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:50,880
I mean. 
I'd like to run if you had John 

647
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,680
in your corner so no one was 
probably going to touch you, 

648
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,760
were they? 
Oh no, I'm trying to be like, 

649
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:56,880
hey, listen, get rid of that 
young lad. 

650
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,360
So it's a good job of you and 
his team mate because I think 

651
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,160
you could have grief off anyone.
You're probably going to have 

652
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,040
grief off him, so it's probably 
a good thing as your team mate. 

653
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:09,680
I remember the first first race 
at first race at Donnington, 

654
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:15,000
then a a divided, I think I we 
had to call it because we had 

655
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,600
qualifying ties back then as 
well. 

656
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:22,680
So when I was qualifying ties I 
hate understand I am I terrible 

657
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,480
understand it's give me overseer
any day of the week but 

658
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,120
understand. 
That's the rallying in you, 

659
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,160
yeah. 
Yeah, exactly the same thing. 

660
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,360
You know, I want to look out the
side window, not the front 

661
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,600
window. 
You know, like just these 

662
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,960
qualifying tests. 
Oh my God, they're amazing. 

663
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,040
Like you've put them on, but 
literally right. 

664
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:41,960
So you know when you drive a 
front wheel drive car you're 

665
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,280
always going to have understeer.
Imagine driving a front wheel 

666
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,480
drive car that has no understeer
but but if you turn the steering

667
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:53,040
wheel too quickly, you spin it 
so it's like a little bit like 

668
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,120
driving in the damp, you know 
where you've got really warm 

669
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:01,680
flicks and like the rear tires 
are cold but so but you've got 

670
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,360
so much front grip, it's 
incredible. 

671
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,000
I mean like you'd be like a 
second second-half fast and you 

672
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,920
could be on the race tires and 
it's just it's absolutely 

673
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,200
bonkers. 
And so I remember I had 

674
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,120
qualified John at first race 
meeting and he was wandering 

675
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,760
around the paddock with a with a
a sheet trying to show all the 

676
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,000
journalists like and he's like 
yeah, no, but I probably my 

677
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:29,400
gears and I thought I thought do
you know what maybe I've got 

678
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:35,080
this old boy rattled here and 
bless him I, I I guess I would 

679
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,800
have probably had a very similar
reaction. 

680
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,240
But I think as the as the season
went on I think he just settled 

681
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:46,520
into the fact they just thought 
actually you know what this 

682
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:51,840
guy's all right pretty good. 
I think anyone's going to judge 

683
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,400
me by him you know that's the 
way out qualifying me. 

684
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:01,120
But I remember following in that
first race and he was after two 

685
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,080
laps, that was 2 laps or 1/2 
laps. 

686
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,400
He was pussyfooting about and he
wasn't overtaking anyone. 

687
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,720
I just thought, I just want to 
get cracked on with this. 

688
00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:14,440
Now I overtook him there. 
I hope I overtook him down into 

689
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,240
that. 
What's the one on the Donnington

690
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,360
Bronfrey Loop, The Melbourne? 
Yeah, yes. 

691
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,040
I'm just looking into that. 
Next thing, the radio is going 

692
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,600
mental and there's everybody go 
shouting on the radio and maybe 

693
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,160
it's like you just said, you 
supposed to be following him. 

694
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,600
I'm like, I know he's messing 
about. 

695
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,120
What's just I just want to get 
cracked on anyway. 

696
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:37,800
I wasn't going to ask you about 
that, I thought. 

697
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,360
Did you Did you have like strict
team orders before the races? 

698
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,920
Well, yeah, John, John, John. 
It's obviously, yeah, I was 

699
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,920
supposed to be learning from 
John, but you know, well messing

700
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:52,040
about. 
I want to crack on. 

701
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,080
But ultimately he won the race. 
I finished about fourth or 

702
00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,120
fifth, so you know the old dog. 
He got the job done. 

703
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,960
When when he was on the show 
with us before, he said that it 

704
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,840
was a culture shock to go from 
Jeff Allen, who he was really 

705
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,160
good mates with as well, which I
think probably made things a bit

706
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:15,240
more tricky to get used to. 
But he did say the best thing 

707
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:18,640
about it was that you had all 
the girls cooing over you and he

708
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,000
had all the mums looking after 
the girls cooing over him. 

709
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,760
So it wasn't so bad in the end, 
I. 

710
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,440
Think he missed a generation of 
the grandmas? 

711
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:29,240
I think it was. 
Naproxon was the 3rd meet in 

712
00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:32,280
that season and you took your 
first pole and your first 

713
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,440
victory. 
Guessing that must have been a 

714
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:35,840
pretty memorable day for you 
and. 

715
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,640
In the chicane, it's the last 
lap and James Thompson is going 

716
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,000
to win. 
He's just got to keep going now 

717
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:49,560
out of this right-hander and 
you'll see the chicken flag 21 

718
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,720
year old James Thompson 
stunningly wins, only his sixth 

719
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,960
race for. 
Vauxhall Yeah, it was good 

720
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,680
because that was the first, that
was the first time we had all 

721
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,040
the same tires because Ruxton 
they, they, they gave us all the

722
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,440
same tires. 
I'd like to think that was a 

723
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,680
little bit of, like, obsessed 
for me. 

724
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,920
Was that? 
It's a it's a it's a It's a 

725
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,600
tricky one that one though 
because obviously you had your 

726
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,680
first pole in that second race, 
which you went on to win, but 

727
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,600
you had to do it twice because 
Charlie Cox, when I visited a 

728
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,760
gravel trap into club. 
Yeah, quite a big one that day 

729
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,960
and it was quite a week. 
Then whilst they recovered the 

730
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,920
car and pulled him out of the 
wreckage and it was, was that 

731
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,920
added pressure for you or did 
you just take that on the 

732
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:31,840
chimney? 
You know, you know. 

733
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,080
Funny thing was and I never felt
any pressure. 

734
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,840
OK. 
Never, never felt any pressure 

735
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:42,960
about like starting from 
proposition or like. 

736
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,960
I don't know, I don't know. 
I've never felt, I've always 

737
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,240
been. 
If I start from pole position, I

738
00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:53,880
have zero pressure because I 
know and the fastest. 

739
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:55,640
They're some of the easiest 
races you win, aren't they? 

740
00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:57,040
James from the. 
From the front. 

741
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,760
Because you're out the chaos. 
For me, I just go, well, I'm the

742
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,560
fastest person on the track. 
I'm starting in front of 

743
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,560
everybody else. 
I've got less things that could 

744
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,360
possibly go wrong. 
I'm super relaxed. 

745
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:17,800
But then the nicest thing that's
probably ever been said to me in

746
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,880
motorsport because that when I 
took that pole position, 

747
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,240
obviously Williams were involved
with it at the time and Patrick 

748
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:33,080
Hedra was watching at the 
chicane and Patrick came into 

749
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,440
the carriage afterwards. 
Beta Might is Williams, and he 

750
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,800
comes into the Vauxhall garage 
and I'm stood there and he just 

751
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,880
came up and he went, do you know
what I just want to say I've 

752
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,000
thoroughly enjoyed watching your
qualifying performance, he said.

753
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,280
It was fantastic, right. 
And do you know what? 

754
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,040
For me, I was like, Oh my God, 
Patrick Head has just come in 

755
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,600
and he's just told me thieves 
stood there watching that. 

756
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,760
And I was like, you know, it was
just one of those, like, surreal

757
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:02,800
moments. 
Yeah, yeah, it. 

758
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:04,960
Was the last thing he was 
expecting to come out of his 

759
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:05,920
mouth. 
I bet he thought he was going to

760
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:07,240
come and moan to you about 
something. 

761
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,640
It was amazing. 
It was just amazing because I 

762
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,920
just, I was just like I just 
loved watching you because I 

763
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:15,320
didn't used to use the kerbs at 
the time. 

764
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,000
I used to come in a bit sideways
left and right and flick it a 

765
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,080
bit like a which is not probably
not the fastest way to go but it

766
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,520
looks quite cool. 
I've always been. 

767
00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:28,120
I've always been about looking 
looking good. 

768
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,520
If you, if you can't be, if you 
can't be quick, you'll be at 

769
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:38,560
least be the spectators friend. 
That's that's quite a compliment

770
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,840
because Patrick, it's not 
exactly known for being 

771
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,240
extremely complimentary about 
drivers either. 

772
00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:44,560
Is he hard? 
Man to please, yeah. 

773
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,280
Yeah, honestly, it was amazing. 
He sat with me all my career. 

774
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,800
Yeah, I bet. 
So obviously you'd started well,

775
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,400
like we've just said, you've won
that for that, that race at 

776
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,120
Thrixton. 
Things are going well and then 

777
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,920
you get to knock Hill and you've
suffered a huge testing crash 

778
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,960
and you miss the rest of the 
season. 

779
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,200
It's it's it's because it was a 
test. 

780
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,440
It wasn't well documented in the
in the sense of not much footage

781
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,640
of of the incident. 
I mean, what do you remember of 

782
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,000
the shunt yourself? 
Is it? 

783
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,240
Do you remember anything from 
it? 

784
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:17,720
Nothing, really. 
OK. 

785
00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:19,960
I could have won the 
championship that first year, 

786
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:21,560
actually. 
Interestingly. 

787
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:23,880
Yeah, yeah. 
Because you finished 7th, 

788
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:25,680
missing the second-half of the 
season. 

789
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,960
I was, I think I was third at 
the time, yeah and stuff. 

790
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,600
So you'd just never know with 
these things. 

791
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,760
But yeah, unfortunately we were 
doing, we were using two 

792
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,760
different sorts of brakes. 
I had bigger brakes on my car 

793
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,880
than John because I left the 
brakes and so they wanted me to 

794
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,720
to use the smaller brakes John 
was using so we could have the 

795
00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:52,360
two cars the same. 
So we're doing a brake test and 

796
00:43:53,640 --> 00:44:00,080
I did a first run on one second 
run on the smaller brakes and 

797
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,040
yeah, unfortunately for whatever
reason, obviously knock it back 

798
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,840
then was very different to what 
it is now. 

799
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,600
It's much more brutal. 
But unfortunately the one of the

800
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:17,120
brake lines got severed on one 
of the Kurt and so I went into 

801
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,440
the first corner, hit the 
brakes, nothing there and just 

802
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:21,840
sort of barrel rolled to a 
finish. 

803
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,840
So the lucky thing was, you 
know, I don't remember anything 

804
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:31,120
about it. 
So you can't be afraid of things

805
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:32,840
that you don't remember and. 
That's what I was going to ask 

806
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:33,360
you, actually. 
Did it. 

807
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:34,840
Knock you back a bit? 
But I suppose you've just 

808
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:36,280
answered that straight away. 
Yeah. 

809
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,680
You've got no memory of it. 
So you've got nothing to look 

810
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:40,800
back on, Abby to, to take you 
back, Because I suppose it was 

811
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,640
business as usual when you when 
you did come back then. 

812
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,560
Yeah, the minute I was ready to 
drive. 

813
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,680
I mean obviously I the 
unfortunate, the the unfortunate

814
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,120
thing was that I end up being 
blind in my left eye. 

815
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,120
Middle, slight, slight middle of
my left eye. 

816
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:59,240
So my ability to judge things 
has never been as good as it 

817
00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:01,640
was. 
So is that still something that 

818
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,000
effects you now then? 
Yeah, totally. 

819
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,640
Yeah. 
You're I just compensate for it.

820
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:10,520
But you know when I, when I was 
when I was driving in that sort 

821
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:15,000
of that sort of phase early 
phase, I never need to I never 

822
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,920
ever had people say about Marcus
about you need to break to this.

823
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,040
I never. 
I just felt, I just felt it. 

824
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:28,600
I felt it and after that injury 
I still could do it, but I 

825
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:30,800
didn't. 
It was a bit more. 

826
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,240
It's a little bit more 
difficult. 

827
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,440
So you would use a bit of 
judgement and a bit of a bit of 

828
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,720
it, but of feeling where you 
are. 

829
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,680
So it didn't feel quite as 
natural. 

830
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,480
But then my eyes sort of my eye 
starts to cover for that blind 

831
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,240
spot. 
And then at the following years 

832
00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:52,000
it became easier and easier. 
I felt like I got back to where 

833
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:56,320
I was, but initially it was 
quite difficult. 

834
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,400
That first year with the Vectra 
coming back from an injury, not 

835
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,200
driving for eight months and 
having like a slight blind spot 

836
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,920
on your left eye. 
It took a little while to really

837
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,080
sort of get that ability to 
judge. 

838
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,200
You know, it's a little bit like
putting your hand over your eye 

839
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,960
and then trying to trying to 
break as late as you can. 

840
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:17,000
Your one eye doesn't have that 
ability to judge distance like 

841
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,720
you know you two eyes do so, so 
that was that was quite tricky. 

842
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,560
We've 96 as well. 
When you did return, as you 

843
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,400
mentioned, it was the debut of 
the new Vectra as well. 

844
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,800
You would take the first win for
the Vectra in the BCCC in a 

845
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:36,080
pretty crazy race at Netton. 
What were the main differences 

846
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:37,600
between the Vectra and the 
Cavalier? 

847
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:38,760
The. 
One thing I'll say about this 

848
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:43,560
race is a lot of people give me 
credit for winning this race out

849
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,440
out of default. 
I was actually quickest in the 

850
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:52,960
test, but RML decided that 
because I was quickest they 

851
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,720
wanted to give me their new 
chassis. 

852
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:59,320
So basically chassis that I've 
been using was made by I think 

853
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,920
it's matter matter the French 
manufacturer but RML wanted to 

854
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:08,040
wanted to basically saw an 
opportunity because we were very

855
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:12,760
low drag with the Vectra they 
and they because I was super 

856
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,800
quick that weekend. 
They thought right give me their

857
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:22,280
car and eventually there's 
chance that we can win with the 

858
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:26,240
RML car the first time but of 
course we'd not shook it down 

859
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:28,520
we'd not done anything. 
So arrived in the race weekend 

860
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,160
having had a car that I was 
quickest with and then I've got 

861
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,560
shaken out Bugs didn't manage to
make this, did half a practice 

862
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,880
session, this, that and the 
other, but we managed to get 

863
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:41,440
there. 
The car, the DARML car was 

864
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,480
obviously better but we've not 
shaken the bugs out of it. 

865
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:49,120
So I'd literally done half the 
test session, whereas if I'd 

866
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,920
taken the other car I could have
been on pole and maybe won the 

867
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:53,680
race. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

868
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:55,920
And. 
It looks more, it looks more 

869
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,600
deserving, even if it doesn't 
necessarily. 

870
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,280
I get the credit for winning at 
Snetterton but because four 

871
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:08,480
people crashed out and I'm like 
well I was actually 2 tense 

872
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:12,840
quicker than everybody else a 
few days before that with with 

873
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,760
the old Vectra you know. 
So I think we would have won the

874
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,400
race if we'd gone with my old 
car we would have probably won 

875
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,600
the race on merit. 
I'm not taking anything away 

876
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,040
from RML because the way they do
things is they are the best 

877
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,360
touring car team that I've I've 
been involved with you know and 

878
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:31,920
seen and. 
Obviously from a fans 

879
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,080
perspective watching, they've 
never known about these two 

880
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:35,000
different chassis. 
Would they? 

881
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,040
No, no, you know, no, no, 
they're just looking at the same

882
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,080
car, you know? 
And that's all we see, isn't it?

883
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:42,880
From the outside? 
There's a lot of things, a lot 

884
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,920
of things that go on you know 
behind the scenes that you know 

885
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:46,920
you don't see. 
A bear in mind. 

886
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:51,680
We used to have, we used to have
a race chassis and a test 

887
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,640
chassis. 
I remember with in Honda in with

888
00:48:54,680 --> 00:49:01,800
97, a car, one car parked up in 
the pit lane with a secondary 

889
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,920
set up on it and my main car and
then I would do a few laps and 

890
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,720
that, then jump out of that jump
in this one, now two car, two 

891
00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:11,280
cars. 
We had a qualifying engine, 

892
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,240
rails engine. 
I mean, it was just, it was 

893
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,920
absolutely bonkers. 
That's crazy, isn't it? 

894
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:18,240
Yeah. 
It was bonkers, but it was 

895
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:20,000
fantastic. 
It was great. 

896
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,360
Like living the dream. 
He's just jumping in now. 

897
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,400
One car, another car. 
It's. 

898
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:26,880
All prepped for you. 
If I just get in and drive, it's

899
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:28,680
ideal situations. 
I mean, as a driver, I think 

900
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:29,920
it's what you aspire to want to 
do. 

901
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:36,920
Amazing. 
So you mentioned their Honda in 

902
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,520
97, you teamed up with Pro Drive
and Honda at the start of that 

903
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,080
year. 
But I when I was researching 

904
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,240
this, I I read that you were 
offered the Renault drive that 

905
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:48,960
eventually went to to Jason 
Plato. 

906
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:53,480
Is that is that true? 
Yeah, well I I was, you know, I 

907
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,400
I consider myself really, really
fortunate. 

908
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:05,080
Sir Frank got in touch with me 
via in Harrison, Ian said. 

909
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,960
Frank would like to have a 
meeting with you. 

910
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:15,960
I was like, well, OK, so I went 
there and so I go to Grove and 

911
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:18,920
get there and you know like a 
school boys. 

912
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,560
But I've always believed in. 
I never, never ever had a 

913
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:23,920
manager in my life. 
In my life. 

914
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,560
I always believed that if I 
can't sit in front of the person

915
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:31,440
and have a conversation about 
what we're going to do, then 

916
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:38,200
it's not for me. 
So I I I work on a just a how I 

917
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,360
see it basis. 
You know, it's like if you don't

918
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:42,760
like me, I don't like you and 
it's not my work. 

919
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:43,920
You know, I'm going to be honest
with you. 

920
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:51,280
And so I went there and you 
know, I was. 

921
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:58,160
They took me up into Sir Frank's
office and he had and it was 

922
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:04,040
Ian, Harrison, Frank and Patrick
and they had like 3 or 4 chairs 

923
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,520
like thinking about there was 
going to be a manager and this 

924
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,520
and the other and it was just 
me. 

925
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,360
I saw Walton like a school and 
we sat down there, we had a 

926
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:18,840
lovely chat and it was so 
memorable, you know, I could see

927
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:23,120
them and like Ayrton's picture 
in the background, everything. 

928
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:29,120
I just sat in this, this iconic,
incredible office that not many 

929
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,480
people have ever had the ability
to see. 

930
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,400
And it was, it was amazing. 
And I had a great conversation. 

931
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,080
And then I left and I did. 
Luckily enough, I had another 

932
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:42,400
meeting and the next time I went
back, Frank, he had just one 

933
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:46,520
chair just for me and for him. 
So he realized that I wasn't 

934
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,800
going to come with the manager. 
And we had another incredible 

935
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,160
dialogue and it was amazing, 
brilliant. 

936
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,720
Yeah, that's cool. 
And so we hit common ground. 

937
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:00,480
We've had everything. 
And cut Long story short, the 

938
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,760
only thing that derailed us was 
the fact that he was, he was 

939
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,640
negotiating with Damon at the 
time for the Formula One, which 

940
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,960
obviously the bigger picture. 
And so touring cars got brought 

941
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,760
to the side. 
And in the meantime, Honda came 

942
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,960
to me and said, right, we want 
you, if we want this, we want 

943
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,960
you, blah blah blah, and we want
to do it now. 

944
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,960
And I was waiting for Frank and 
of course Frank was waiting for 

945
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:25,360
for a lot of other stuff that 
was going on. 

946
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,880
And I was like, well, I'm a 
young guy, these guys are 

947
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,760
telling me they really, really 
want me and they want it now. 

948
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:37,240
And I just decided to go with 
Honda and there's no regrets 

949
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:41,200
from I would love to dream for 
for Frank and Pearl Williams. 

950
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:45,800
But but for me, the Honda side 
of it was what they wanted and 

951
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:47,040
that was the biggest thing to 
them. 

952
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,080
And so they wanted me and I was 
like, OK, really wanted so and 

953
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:50,960
at. 
The end of the day, you don't 

954
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,040
want to be left on the sidelines
at all by waiting out for one 

955
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:55,680
deal and. 
But but also you see that with a

956
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,200
lot of teams, like teams don't 
think twice about being 

957
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,200
ruthless. 
I mean, look before when they've

958
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,000
said to James, oh, you've got 
the job, but then all of a 

959
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:03,880
sudden a couple of days later, 
oh, but no, you haven't. 

960
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,400
So you've gone from some, you've
gone from Cleland as a team out 

961
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:11,880
now you've gone to Gabrielli's, 
our queen. 

962
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,280
So one minute you get any 
signature a couple of years 

963
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:16,960
before and now as soon as you 
team mate. 

964
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:19,960
How was that? 
Yeah, it's been it was really 

965
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,360
good. 
I always remember he changed my 

966
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:27,360
he changed my confidence in 
motorsport in the respect that 

967
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:32,280
we I remember we just we did our
first Test at Donnington and he 

968
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,320
was two or three hundreds 
quicker than me and I thought 

969
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,920
done me, he's done anything and 
like as a young guy you go, he's

970
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:41,840
still, he's quicker than me, 
right? 

971
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:46,000
But he was like nothing but you.
But, you know, mentally, you 

972
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,360
Stew over there, you think, oh, 
he's still cooking to me, 

973
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:49,800
everything. 
Oh, yeah. 

974
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:56,000
And I just remember we were on 
the way to Throxton for the next

975
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,320
test, and I was driving in 
there. 

976
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:02,880
So we stopped at a Little Chef 
because I said OK, right. 

977
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,600
Listen, Italian, I know you like
coffee for breakfast and 

978
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,440
everything, but right. 
I'm going to teach you English 

979
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,280
breakfast, James. 
No, I don't want love, don't 

980
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,160
like English breakfast. 
Listen to me. 

981
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,000
You teach me coffee. 
I teach you breakfast. 

982
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,160
So we went to the Little Chef. 
We've had all the breakfast and 

983
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,120
everything and he's like, he's 
laughing about. 

984
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:29,000
We're laughing away. 
And he's like, James, I really 

985
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:32,200
like you. 
He goes, listen, one thing, if 

986
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,960
you're faster than me, I'm happy
for you. 

987
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,000
He's like, I'm Gabrielle. 
I love my life. 

988
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,120
I have had a great career. 
I'm so happy. 

989
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:43,440
If you're fast than me, 
fantastic. 

990
00:54:43,720 --> 00:54:46,200
I I say fantastic. 
And you know what? 

991
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:50,080
It just made me realize somebody
who's so confident without being

992
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:55,400
arrogant that to a young guy he 
was so inspiring. 

993
00:54:55,720 --> 00:54:58,800
As if to say, do you know what? 
I can deal with the fact that 

994
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,640
you're fast than me today, but 
tomorrow it might be a different

995
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:03,280
thing. 
And it gave me this incredible 

996
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,760
we had a really really good 
relationship where he was out 

997
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,040
qualified me. 
Sometimes I qualified him. 

998
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:13,120
But both of us would always 
shake hands and go, OK, next 

999
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:17,000
time old man, yeah, I think that
him obviously would say to me 

1000
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:22,400
but but we'd have this lovely 
relationship that it would. 

1001
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,040
It meant that we brought the 
most the. 

1002
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:29,040
Best out of each other. 
Without any toxic carry on and 

1003
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,760
and you know it was, it was, it 
was amazing it was a fact 

1004
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:35,160
really, really good 
relationship. 

1005
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:36,560
And the team must have loved 
that. 

1006
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:39,440
Because from a team's 
perspective, it's an ideal 

1007
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,200
situation, isn't it? 
Two drivers that get on and not 

1008
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,560
at each other's throats. 
We're not dividing the garages. 

1009
00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:49,640
Oh, yeah, I mean, we we drove. 
I mean, we really drove hard for

1010
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:55,680
each other, you know, But we, 
you know, but we also, we're 

1011
00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:00,480
massively respectful, you know, 
and I suppose you can only do 

1012
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:04,040
that if you feel like you're 
both on a level footing. 

1013
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:08,960
You know, I guess there's 
probably only two people I've 

1014
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:14,040
felt that with, which is, you 
know, Gabrielli and Ivan, you 

1015
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,640
know, you know, we've always 
pushed each other to the 

1016
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,560
absolute maximum. 
And I think we've always said to

1017
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,320
each other every time one's had 
a better result and the other 

1018
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:27,080
you know, well done. 
You know I think that you know 

1019
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:28,600
there was nothing left on the 
table. 

1020
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,240
You beat me and that was what it
was you know and and and you 

1021
00:56:31,240 --> 00:56:34,680
just go well done mate and but 
you know next weekend it might 

1022
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,960
be the other way round that's 
but that's that's that's 

1023
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:41,600
beautiful though as well. 
Well, it's rare, it's rare. 

1024
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,160
So I think that you've gone 
through that and you've 

1025
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:45,520
experienced it with 22 legends 
of the sport. 

1026
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,320
So to have that bond, that 
relationship you'd like, you 

1027
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:50,840
said you get the best out of 
each other, you're getting the 

1028
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:52,520
best out of the car and you're 
getting the best out for the 

1029
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,480
team. 
So it's win, win for everybody 

1030
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:55,880
when you when you have that 
relationship. 

1031
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,640
But as we know it isn't always 
that plain silent. 

1032
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,520
So I think it's been brilliant 
that you did have that 

1033
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,680
relationship with. 
Them and obviously I think the 

1034
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:04,880
feeling was very much mutual as 
well. 

1035
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:08,920
When we spoke to Gabrielli in 
series two, he actually 

1036
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,840
mentioned that you were his 
favorite ever teammate in his 

1037
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,400
whole career. 
So I think that must encapsulate

1038
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,760
that relationship that you two 
had over the years. 

1039
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:19,560
Yeah, OK. 
We've spent, we've spent so much

1040
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:21,600
time together. 
I mean you know not only 

1041
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:26,240
unfortunately we got, I think we
got split up in in nine end of 

1042
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:31,360
97 where I think in 98 we 
probably could have won the 

1043
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,120
championship. 
I think if if Gabrielle had been

1044
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:38,680
stayed in the UK, I think the 
two of us would have been. 

1045
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:44,640
I'm not given any disrespect to 
Peter or whatever, but I think 

1046
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:52,280
if Gabrielle and Gabrielli and I
had stayed together in 98, we 

1047
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:56,520
would have been a force across 
the across the year when I 

1048
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:58,400
wasn't scoring. 
He would have been, and I think 

1049
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:02,560
we probably would have given it 
a better shot than we did. 

1050
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:09,880
But unfortunately the draw of 
having a European Championship 

1051
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:14,200
and having Tom Christensen and 
Gabrielle across there, me and 

1052
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:17,240
Peter Cox in the UK, you know 
that everything was sort of 

1053
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:20,720
divided and I think that 
unfortunately sort of hurt us in

1054
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,360
in that respect. 
But yeah, into but in terms of 

1055
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,760
teammates, I mean me and 
Gabrielli and also you know Van,

1056
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:32,120
I spent five, five years with 
the Van as teammates you know 

1057
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:38,120
and probably 544 years with 
Gabrielli and they're my 

1058
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,760
fondest, fondest memories of of 
racing. 

1059
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,680
You mentioned 98, then many 
consider that season as one of 

1060
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,840
the greatest BTCC seasons of all
time. 

1061
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:49,760
It's been such a huge battle for
the title, which has big names 

1062
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,480
and huge input for 
manufacturers, and even now the 

1063
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:54,600
likes of months will come in 
three race meetings. 

1064
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:57,480
What was it like to even be 
involved in that series when 

1065
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,960
people considered it to be 
absolutely at its peak at that 

1066
00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:03,080
time? 
It was, do you know it, it was 

1067
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:07,360
great. 
I mean, I think looking back on 

1068
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:12,640
it now, get a little bit like 
little goosebumps where you look

1069
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,440
back and you go, oh wow, like, 
you know, sometimes we feel like

1070
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,480
really detached from it. 
We look back and and just. 

1071
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:21,960
Remind yourself you're a part of
that when you watch footage and 

1072
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:23,800
stuff now. 
I think I was, I was in amongst 

1073
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,600
absolutely. 
Like within all that, at that 

1074
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:30,200
time it must be very. 
Much so. 

1075
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:33,400
You know, it's almost like 
because I've stopped driving for

1076
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:37,240
quite a few years now, you sort 
of start questioning yourself 

1077
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:40,080
and you go, was was I doing 
that? 

1078
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:41,720
Was that Paul O'Neill driving 
for me there? 

1079
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:46,560
Oh, no, no, no, no. 
No. 

1080
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:50,960
No, I'm only, I'm only joking. 
You know, I love Paul, He's my 

1081
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:52,480
brother. 
But it's just one of those 

1082
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:57,240
things where you just you you 
look back and you go, wow, look 

1083
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:03,080
at all these guys who, you know,
he do sort of get very detached 

1084
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:04,600
from it. 
It was such an incredible 

1085
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:06,560
saying, I remember. 
You know like they're watching 

1086
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:11,120
Grandstand back in the day and 
you know Mary Walker you know 

1087
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:15,960
bless him and you know you 
listen to his commentary and and

1088
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:19,560
Charlie Cox when he was doing it
and and everything and you know 

1089
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,880
you listen to the emotion that 
they stood up and you're 

1090
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:27,320
watching the races and and then 
the edited races back in the day

1091
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,520
were incredible. 
I know the library they did were

1092
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:36,160
good, but the the edited races 
tell me there's been no better 

1093
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:38,360
race than ever. 
I don't think there's ever been 

1094
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:43,840
any better racing when it's been
edited like BTC back in in those

1095
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,600
in the 90s like that, it was 
fantastic. 

1096
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:48,680
And I always mentioned to you 
all the time, don't know about, 

1097
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:50,360
you know, Steve Ryder's voice 
and Murray's voice. 

1098
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,760
You know, when I was a kid on a 
Saturday grandstands on it was. 

1099
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,320
It was. 
Like Steve, Steve has been an 

1100
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:59,720
absolute champion. 
When, when do you think what an 

1101
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:03,000
incredible career he has had 
been good? 

1102
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:06,800
I mean literally, if you want 
somebody to promote your 

1103
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:11,000
championship, to promote you or 
anything, he has. 

1104
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:13,000
Certainly you want that how well
he's doing it, don't you? 

1105
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:16,680
Yeah, and aura and knowledge and
everything. 

1106
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:20,400
Absolutely second to none. 
His passion for the sport you 

1107
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,720
know is is second to none And 
it's it's brilliant, you know, 

1108
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:27,680
longevity of being involved with
it and and also he's just, he's 

1109
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:30,160
just a good guy. 
One of my favorite races from 

1110
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:34,200
that 98 season is actually one 
that you won James, but it I 

1111
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,560
feel it goes under the radar a 
little bit because it was the 

1112
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:38,080
race. 
Rydell cleans the title. 

1113
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:42,440
It was the finale at Silverstone
where you pulled an over. 

1114
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:46,680
You've pulled an incredible 
overtake on Reedy and then he 

1115
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:49,320
didn't seem to like it very much
and just absolutely walloped you

1116
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:51,520
at the Abbey hairpin. 
And getting ahead of Anthony 

1117
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:53,240
Reid is what James Thompson's 
trying to do. 

1118
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:55,920
Side by side through maggots and
Becketts. 

1119
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,040
James Thompson is absolutely 
nailing Anthony Reid. 

1120
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:00,440
They're heading down to the 
Island chicane. 

1121
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,440
They can't get through there two
by two and he's back in front of

1122
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:04,760
him. 
Amazing stuff. 

1123
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:07,320
Reid was challenging. 
Ryndell Thompson's now back in 

1124
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:10,400
front of him. 
He shot the fox Strong pass by 

1125
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,000
James Thompson. 
He took the addition of. 

1126
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,920
He forced Anthony to stay out. 
Now Reid, those onions and back 

1127
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:19,560
came in the back of the Honda 
and that was simply Mission 

1128
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:21,880
Impossible by the championship 
contender. 

1129
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:24,840
Anthony Reed And then you came 
back through the fields. 

1130
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,520
It was an incredible race and 
you you eventually overtook 

1131
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:30,000
Rydell and won. 
Well, we'll end up like eighth 

1132
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,000
or something on the 1st. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1133
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,200
If the car's right on the day, I
think I've always had a had 

1134
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,600
ability to. 
I don't want to sound arrogant 

1135
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:40,880
here, but you know, like, I mean
if the car's right I can, I can 

1136
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:46,600
really peddle it and luckily 
that year, that curl was really,

1137
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,760
really good. 
You know, I think when I win 5 

1138
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:53,520
races that year, which was quite
a lot in the 90s, I mean, I 

1139
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:58,960
think if you look at the 19th to
94 onwards, what there's only a 

1140
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,480
few people more than eight and 
nine races. 

1141
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:06,800
So to win four or five races 
that year was, you know, a big 

1142
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:08,600
thing. 
Unfortunately, you know, we just

1143
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:12,040
got let down with other stuff. 
Unfortunately. 

1144
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:16,840
I've always been really close, 
but never quite close enough. 

1145
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:24,040
I think. 
I think 99 was an exciting year 

1146
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:27,960
for me with the new car and all 
that sort of stuff. 

1147
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,080
I think that was that was going 
to be a fun year. 

1148
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:32,640
Well, the Hondas in the in the 
years you were there were always

1149
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,600
quick but seemed to lack the 
consistency to win titles. 

1150
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:37,440
So was there any particular 
read? 

1151
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:39,440
Like you said there, you're 
close but never quite there. 

1152
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:41,240
Was there any particular reason 
for it? 

1153
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:45,520
Because we were divided over, we
had to do 22 amalgations. 

1154
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:51,400
So we had the European 
Championship which Gabrielli and

1155
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:56,440
Tom were racing in, in Europe 
and we were racing in the UK but

1156
01:03:56,440 --> 01:04:01,280
you could only amalgate 1 
aerodynamic package. 

1157
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:08,120
So for the first year it was for
the UK which was in 97 and it 

1158
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:09,680
was an absolutely shocking 
package. 

1159
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:15,920
I mean I remember what I did. 
I did about 15 days at Millbrook

1160
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:20,240
and we did this aerodynamic 
package and it was horrendous. 

1161
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:23,760
I mean we had such little 
downfalls that we had right, our

1162
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,520
biggest guy in the team, Rob, 
and he won't mind me saying this

1163
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:30,160
Rob, because I love him to bits.
But Rob we were checking the we 

1164
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:35,960
were checking the sensors to 
make sure we actually downforce 

1165
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:38,200
on the car by Rob sitting on the
bonnet, right. 

1166
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:45,600
So Rob sat on the bonnet and 
going oh you haven't got 

1167
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:47,160
deflection. 
We're like where's the 

1168
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,080
aerodynamics? 
Well obviously we haven't gone 

1169
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:55,240
so aero package in 97 was 
shocking. 

1170
01:04:55,480 --> 01:05:00,200
We had so much rear aero it was 
unreal and we had no from Arrow.

1171
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,160
Well, of course Williams and all
these people, they, they and 

1172
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:07,120
they sorted, they were so far 
ahead of us 98, we've managed to

1173
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:12,560
make a bit of a change, but we 
had to have two aero packages 

1174
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:17,920
for, one for UK, one for Europe.
And of course Europe took 

1175
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:21,520
precedent at that point because 
Europe needed long straights 

1176
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:24,240
like you imagine, Hockenheim, 
all those sorts of things. 

1177
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:26,480
They needed to be really quick 
in a straight line. 

1178
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,960
So they need the opposite of 
what we needed the UK and so the

1179
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:33,000
Europeans took precedence. 
So we're driving around in a car

1180
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:37,000
that's got literally load, super
low drag, no downfalls. 

1181
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:42,400
Round Knockhill. 
As I say back looking at side 

1182
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:47,920
windows, which is great for me, 
but that's but that's basically 

1183
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:51,560
the way it was. 
So, and that's why because we 

1184
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:57,280
didn't have a package which was 
just for the UK, we were, we 

1185
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:00,880
were taking now a low drag 
package trying to adapt it to 

1186
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:04,040
the UK and occasionally would be
quick and then we'd be terribly 

1187
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:09,400
slow because you know, our mail 
just went right, we're just 

1188
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:12,360
going to park it there. 
That's for the UK and we're just

1189
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,040
going to dominate. 
Well, you know, and that's why 

1190
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:22,560
that's why they're so good. 
But 99 you had the new model car

1191
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:26,600
as you said as the Accord you 
went into that year again as one

1192
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:29,680
of the title favourites and new 
rock up at Donnington win the 

1193
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:33,360
first race in the car. 
I think that was that, was that.

1194
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:34,920
Was back. 
Cool though, wasn't it? 

1195
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:39,560
Yeah, I think. 
I think that that day's more 

1196
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:43,920
known now though, that a certain
Macneill dropped up and stole 

1197
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:46,600
the headlines, didn't he? 
Later that day as as a moment. 

1198
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:49,280
Was that even though it didn't 
go your way in the feature race,

1199
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:53,880
was it still a pretty big day to
be a part of that, that moment 

1200
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:55,720
where Matt wins as an 
independent? 

1201
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:03,560
100% the fact they listen, I 
take head off my captain for 

1202
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:05,560
doing that. 
I mean the fact, the fact, the 

1203
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:08,760
fact that he managed to, he took
me off in that race. 

1204
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:10,600
If you remember, yes, he. 
Did he tried to? 

1205
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:13,760
He put me in the grafter, I 
managed to continue, he let me 

1206
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:18,160
back through and then overtook 
me again to take the to take the

1207
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:22,160
call £1,000,000. 
So absolute play to him, you 

1208
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:23,000
know. 
And you know what? 

1209
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:24,520
The guy who absolutely deserves 
it. 

1210
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:28,760
Him and his Matt and his family 
have been the cornerstone of 

1211
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:33,200
what the BTC is all about. 
You know And so obviously I 

1212
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:39,560
drove for them in 2009. 
Yes and all that, you know so I 

1213
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:45,440
I know what their families that 
you know about and and they have

1214
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:52,160
have such amazing passion and so
to watch him do that it's like 

1215
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:54,880
for me, I was just so I was 
happy for him. 

1216
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:56,640
You know I won the first race 
from pole position. 

1217
01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:58,640
I thought right do you know I've
got my job done. 

1218
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:03,360
New car race, win next race. 
OK, finish second. 

1219
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:04,920
Fair enough. 
Yeah, it was. 

1220
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:08,480
It was all going well that 99 
season, but it it mid season 

1221
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:11,400
then you just seem to get into a
rotten run of bad luck. 

1222
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:13,600
He'd been involved in other 
people's incidents. 

1223
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,760
For example, the night race at 
SNET and you've got T boned by 

1224
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:19,560
Muller in the Sprint. 
And then in the in the feature 

1225
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:21,800
race you had made a pit stop and
the wheel was loose and that 

1226
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:25,359
fell off and it just it just 
seemed that it all fell apart 

1227
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:28,560
halfway through the year, which 
again was not really your fault.

1228
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:29,960
I think we should have won. 
We should have won the 

1229
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:32,680
championship there. 
Honestly, I think there was. 

1230
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:36,560
There was that that weekend was 
a shocker, but there's a there 

1231
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:43,200
was a few things that year that 
weren't quite right, you know, 

1232
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:48,359
and the car was good, everything
was was there. 

1233
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:52,640
I just think that unfortunately 
we didn't just quite execute 

1234
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:58,520
what we should have done. 
But you know what? 

1235
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:00,960
Everybody gave it their all, so 
you can ask them all. 

1236
01:09:01,399 --> 01:09:05,120
Going into 2000, that would be 
the the final year of the Super 

1237
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:07,640
Touring regulations in the UK at
least. 

1238
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:12,640
Were you sad to say goodbye to 
sort of that formula of car that

1239
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:15,720
you'd been racing for the 
previous seven years by this 

1240
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:17,359
point? 
I don't think so. 

1241
01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:19,160
I was excited in 2000, if I'm 
honest. 

1242
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:20,399
I thought, you know what, here 
we go. 

1243
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:26,880
Obviously the grid had thinned 
down massively, which you know 

1244
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:30,040
at that point in time. 
But then again, can you say, 

1245
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:35,080
well, when I won the 
championship in 2002 and 4, you 

1246
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:39,080
know how many people could win 
races X, but you've still got to

1247
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:40,520
win the races to win the 
championship. 

1248
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:42,160
It's a really, it's a really 
tricky one. 

1249
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:43,479
It's a little Formula One, isn't
it? 

1250
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:48,000
So, well, OK, right. 
Max has won the championship, 

1251
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:51,600
but there's only Red Bull could 
win races, you know, but you 

1252
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:56,080
still got to do, I don't know it
it it's very much a trigger and 

1253
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:59,400
I think 2000 was difficult 
because we lost a lot of 

1254
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:01,480
competitors. 
I think we had a really good 

1255
01:10:01,480 --> 01:10:03,200
car. 
Unfortunate thing for me is 

1256
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:08,040
obviously with the crash in the 
first race weekend and missing, 

1257
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:12,560
missing 4/4 races effectively, I
was never going to win the 

1258
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:16,600
championship. 
And so for me, in a team where 

1259
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:19,720
they know that one driver's 
totally out, you sort of 

1260
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:22,160
snookered. 
You know, I was at. 

1261
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:24,880
That was, to be fair, that was 
probably one of my worst years, 

1262
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:31,680
if I'm honest, because I've been
Tom Tom's sort of teammate, and 

1263
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:34,280
we're sorry. 
You know, they're they're a 

1264
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:38,200
really good team. 
But like when one driver's down,

1265
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:40,040
it's like, what? 
Who do you, who do you support? 

1266
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:43,920
I guess if I was a team, I would
support the guy. 

1267
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:46,240
He could win the championship. 
I'm not going to win it when I'm

1268
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:48,800
four races down with no score. 
No. 

1269
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:49,840
That's. 
Right. 

1270
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:53,120
You know, so, but that's hard. 
That's hard to take when you're 

1271
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:55,840
when you literally, literally 
fought for the championship in 

1272
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:58,840
the last sort of Four Seasons, 
you know, just rocking up and 

1273
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:01,520
knowing that you're the second 
guy in the in, you know, in the 

1274
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:05,800
in the in the team. 
So that's quite a tricky 1 to 

1275
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:08,800
take. 
James, going back to that shunt 

1276
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:11,120
that you had a Dingle doubt. 
Oh dear me, that's James 

1277
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:12,800
Thompson. 
James Thompson piled up 

1278
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:15,080
backwards onto one of the tire 
walls. 

1279
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:17,200
That's a very, very big off 
indeed. 

1280
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:18,840
The whole back of that car is 
missing. 

1281
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:20,800
Look, you can just see the edge 
of the boot lid. 

1282
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:23,000
Marshalls are going up to the 
side of the car. 

1283
01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:25,120
James must still be in it. 
They're talking to him. 

1284
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:27,440
That has just happened. 
Fire Marshall's there with an 

1285
01:11:27,440 --> 01:11:30,560
extinguisher. 
That is a very, very big off 

1286
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:32,440
indeed. 
That was reported at the 12 G 

1287
01:11:32,440 --> 01:11:33,640
impact. 
Much more. 

1288
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:36,440
So, so obviously you know more 
about it than what? 

1289
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:37,720
What? 
We've read or. 

1290
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:42,320
We've if you could have seen the
rear, the rear wheel ended up 

1291
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:49,080
underneath my driver's seat. 
It lifted the actual to the 

1292
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:53,480
seat, so it came from the back. 
But bear in mind that the, the 

1293
01:11:53,480 --> 01:11:55,440
roll cages of those cars were 
incredible. 

1294
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:57,960
It was, it was a huge, I mean, a
friend of mine, Dean Waddell at 

1295
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:02,000
the time was like 180 K so you 
imagine I've gone and I've not 

1296
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:04,360
stopped much. 
So, you know, and that was a 

1297
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:06,360
stupid thing. 
It was just the tie warmers, 

1298
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:10,480
because they've done away with 
tie warmers because for whatever

1299
01:12:10,480 --> 01:12:11,880
reason, I'm not going to get 
into that. 

1300
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:17,120
But of course you come out the 
pits first lap, you've got, you 

1301
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:22,040
know you've got probably 11.1 
bar in the front tyres and you 

1302
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:27,240
need nearly 2 bar and you go, 
you have a jump and you land, 

1303
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:31,840
tyre sort of deforms and off you
go and that's it. 

1304
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:35,480
That was a that's was a silly 
thing for me was when you've got

1305
01:12:35,480 --> 01:12:39,560
tyres that are that marginal and
you've done away with tyre, 

1306
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:43,760
which everybody had, I don't 
think that was necessarily the 

1307
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:45,360
right way to go, so. 
What do you remember? 

1308
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:46,600
Do you remember much about the 
shunt? 

1309
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:48,880
Like, do you remember all of it?
I mean that that's something bad

1310
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:51,320
lot to do that matter damage I 
was. 

1311
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:55,520
Unconscious for a little bit, 
but it was it wasn't that crazy 

1312
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:58,720
a shunt, but unfortunately 
because I've had damage in the 

1313
01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:01,760
back of my head, I had double 
vision for for quite a while, so

1314
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:05,480
I wasn't allowed to drive 
because the double vision, but 

1315
01:13:05,480 --> 01:13:08,360
it maybe would have put like 
twice as many cars on the grid 

1316
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:20,680
so might be quite good. 
In 2000 and James, so you 

1317
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:24,400
dovetailed what you were doing 
in the BTCC and you did a few 

1318
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:27,840
drives in the new reform DTM 
with the Audi TT. 

1319
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:30,120
What were what were those base 
large drivers think? 

1320
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:31,880
Always wanted to have a go in. 
Obviously never got the 

1321
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:34,160
opportunity but obviously 
downforce wise would have been a

1322
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:36,040
lot different to what you'd 
obviously experienced in the 

1323
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:37,160
Honda. 
That was for sure, but 

1324
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:39,400
completely different from Super 
Tours do. 

1325
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:41,960
You know what they No, they 
weren't. 

1326
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:47,600
They were. 
They were not as much downforce 

1327
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:55,640
as the Super Tours but they they
were just the one that we what I

1328
01:13:55,640 --> 01:14:00,280
drove the concept was good. 
It was just it was basically a 

1329
01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:03,320
space frame. 
So it gave everybody the ability

1330
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:08,600
to you didn't have to mess about
with a road car shell or you 

1331
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:11,840
know you had a space frame and 
then you put the body work 

1332
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:16,760
around it which obviously made 
it relatively simple cost 

1333
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:20,680
effective. 
Problem was wheelbase, so an 

1334
01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:25,120
Audi TT compared to a Mercedes C
Class, etcetera. 

1335
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:28,000
Flat floor. 
You know what you're giving away

1336
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:32,360
all that sort of stuff. 
So there was a lot of 

1337
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:37,440
complications with it. 
I wouldn't say I enjoyed driving

1338
01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:47,080
the car because they made the 
tub, which was an evacuation tub

1339
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:57,040
the same size as Laurel and 
Christian apartment who are 5 

1340
01:14:57,040 --> 01:14:59,720
foot 5 foot seven. 
I'm 6 foot. 

1341
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:04,040
I was, I was. 
I was driving with my literally 

1342
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:09,320
my head on the back of the my 
knees. 

1343
01:15:09,440 --> 01:15:11,240
Literally. 
I couldn't get it was the most. 

1344
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:16,240
It was the moral worst driving 
position I've ever had in my 

1345
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:18,600
life. 
And it was it was it was 

1346
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:20,360
ridiculous. 
But you know what? 

1347
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:23,920
I was involved with it. 
You know, I finished 7th in 

1348
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:26,720
Nurburgring. 
I've got to race the full, the 

1349
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:31,320
full Nurburgring proper, the 
proper Nurburgring. 

1350
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:32,680
So at least I've got to do with 
that. 

1351
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:37,520
And I learnt that Lauren Aiello 
can't see more than 50 meters. 

1352
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:43,800
I remember because obviously 
Lauren Lauren was driving the 

1353
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:49,040
car and he's, for me, he's one 
of my favourite drivers. 

1354
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:52,920
He's absolutely brilliant. 
As much as we were competitors 

1355
01:15:52,920 --> 01:16:00,160
in BTC when we raced together in
DTM, we used to, we always used 

1356
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:01,320
to. 
We always used to share a hire 

1357
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:04,200
car together because we had the 
love of red wine. 

1358
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:07,360
Me and him used to have quite a 
lot of red wine over the 

1359
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:14,720
weekends and remember one time 
nerve agreeing we're in the pit 

1360
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:19,240
lane. 
And I was like oh how many 

1361
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:22,880
minutes we got to go. 
I didn't have a watch and he and

1362
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:27,880
he goes, look he goes I don't 
know you tell me. 

1363
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:30,760
I said can you not see the clock
at the end of the year pit lane 

1364
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:36,560
he goes no he couldn't see a 
clock. 

1365
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:39,040
Two pit lane 22 pit garages 
down. 

1366
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:41,600
I said, can you tell when it's 
even raining? 

1367
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:43,080
He goes. 
No, I said. 

1368
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:47,880
No one is so fucking fast while 
he's still on slicks. 

1369
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:52,240
Obviously, literally. 
But what what I love about him 

1370
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:55,840
is the fact that he left 
motorsport to be a DJ. 

1371
01:16:56,440 --> 01:16:57,240
Wow did. 
He. 

1372
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:00,280
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
He left Motorsport this. 

1373
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:04,440
Man, and to this day and I, we 
message each other now and then 

1374
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:08,840
and he's he's just such a lover 
He just went do you know what? 

1375
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:11,480
I have enough for racing. 
I want to be a DJ. 

1376
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:14,160
I'm like mate, I love you. 
That is just. 

1377
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:15,840
How good is that? 
How's it all in here? 

1378
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:21,560
It's like one of the best 
drivers I've ever seen in a 

1379
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:22,800
touring car. 
It was. 

1380
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:25,280
Fast, wasn't it? 
Yeah, it was. 

1381
01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:26,720
Yeah. 
Ever. 

1382
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:29,080
Yeah. 
He just decided he's going to 

1383
01:17:29,080 --> 01:17:31,120
stop. 
Could be a DJ. 

1384
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:33,880
There's somebody at their 
wedding at the moment from the. 

1385
01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:38,200
That's not the Lauren ILO, is 
he? 

1386
01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:40,840
No, no, it's. 
Not fast enough. 

1387
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:45,000
Oh, he's brilliant. 
He's brilliant. 

1388
01:17:45,440 --> 01:17:50,600
In 2001 the the the BTCC moved 
on from Super Touring and whilst

1389
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:53,720
this pod is about Super Touring,
we will we will touch on your 

1390
01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:55,800
later career as well, only 
briefly. 

1391
01:17:55,800 --> 01:17:57,960
We've taken enough of your time 
up already, I know. 

1392
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:02,560
OK cool, cool. 
Well you moved to say the series

1393
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:06,360
moved to BTC touring regulations
which you you're in the export 

1394
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:10,360
car for the first season and 
then you moved to the the the 

1395
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:12,600
Vauxhall Motorsport team for the
second season. 

1396
01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:16,120
How good was that Astra Coupe? 
Because there's there's been 

1397
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:18,600
rumours that they weren't 
running at full throttle and 

1398
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:21,880
stuff like that just with the 
car that that good compared to 

1399
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:24,640
the competition. 
Yeah, it was good. 

1400
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:26,520
It was good. 
But you know, at the end of the 

1401
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:30,640
day you had, let's say you had 
four, four cars, you know, 

1402
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:33,880
competing. 
So you know, yes, we were better

1403
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:39,280
than everybody else, certainly 
for the first year, but you also

1404
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:42,680
had four top drivers competing. 
Let's put four people in a Red 

1405
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:45,520
Bull and let's see. 
You probably have quite an 

1406
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:47,800
interesting championship. 
Yes, yeah. 

1407
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:50,000
Yeah. 
So there's always cars that win 

1408
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:52,200
race, it's always cars that 
finish second. 

1409
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:58,520
You know, we were lucky that we 
were well ahead of the game, but

1410
01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:02,200
I don't think anyone will deny 
that Ivan Mora is the best 

1411
01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:04,320
touring car driver there's 
probably ever been. 

1412
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:09,600
And so are you going to say to 
him, well, you know, you were 

1413
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:17,600
lucky to have an Astro. 
I think that he's he's he's, 

1414
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:21,080
he's done all right. 
You went on to win your two BTCC

1415
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:24,840
titles in in O2 and O4, battling
against him I think. 

1416
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:30,280
So some incredible championship 
battles across those that four 

1417
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:33,880
year span with him. 
I mean was he, in terms of we've

1418
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:36,000
we've touched on it a bit 
already when we spoke about your

1419
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:40,440
relationship with him and then 
also with Gabrielli. 

1420
01:19:40,440 --> 01:19:43,280
Was he sort of your toughest 
opponent, you think in terms of 

1421
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:46,040
those into team battles in your 
career? 

1422
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:51,080
It's quite interesting actually 
because those two massively, 

1423
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:56,160
massively influential and I 
guess statistic wise and for 

1424
01:19:56,160 --> 01:20:02,760
everybody else looking in on it,
Gabrielli for me is the fastest 

1425
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:05,560
driver I've ever come up against
Ivan. 

1426
01:20:06,440 --> 01:20:11,960
Is also incredibly fast and I'm 
well we're talking about super 

1427
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:22,400
small margins here but Ivan will
win races that maybe Gabrielli 

1428
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:25,600
wouldn't. 
In the respect that Gabrielli 

1429
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:31,320
sometimes gets involved with 
things not not latterly in his 

1430
01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:37,360
career but in his in his earlier
career he's he's we used to call

1431
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:42,760
him he's Chingy Ali the the the 
wild boar would come out and 

1432
01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:44,920
he's called the Chingy he's 
called the chingus. 

1433
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:48,600
So it's called the wild boar. 
And so he would. 

1434
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:53,360
He'll have all the speed, but 
sometimes would just his passion

1435
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:56,760
would take over. 
But when he's won his 

1436
01:20:56,760 --> 01:21:00,720
championships has always been 
when he's been, like, more 

1437
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:05,120
controlled Evan. 
Evan has the ability of speed, 

1438
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:08,200
consistency, racecraft, 
everything. 

1439
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:14,560
Gabrielli has ultimate speed. 
I've never struggled to sense 

1440
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:15,840
awfully arrogant and don't mean 
that. 

1441
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:21,280
But if there's one person that I
had to go up against in 

1442
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:25,680
qualifying that I thought I 
might struggle with, it'd be 

1443
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:28,400
Gabrielli. 
But if there's one person who I 

1444
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:32,280
had to go for against in a race 
and thought I might struggle, 

1445
01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:34,160
it'd be Evan. 
Interesting. 

1446
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:36,760
Yeah, yeah. 
So, so this is, this is the 

1447
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:39,640
thing I always, when I was 
racing with Gabrielli, I always 

1448
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:41,840
thought I need to be on pole to 
beat him. 

1449
01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:46,840
If I was with Evan, I knew I had
to be on pole to beat him. 

1450
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:49,160
If I was second on the grid 
team, I was going to, I was 

1451
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:51,920
going to finish second. 
We're really lucky to have to 

1452
01:21:51,920 --> 01:21:56,880
have had such an incredible 
generation of touring car 

1453
01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:58,680
drivers in that era. 
Absolutely. 

1454
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:01,400
Those two are the guys that I 
measure myself. 

1455
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:05,760
You know what? 
I think I was luckily lucky 

1456
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:10,320
enough to compete with them and 
I'd like to think that they 

1457
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:12,320
would look back and go actually,
do you know what Jimmy was? 

1458
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:15,680
Jimmy was really hard to beat on
his day. 

1459
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:20,760
I mean I remember, I remember 
rocking up, I remember rocking 

1460
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:25,720
up from Vegas. 
But we're doing a racing and I 

1461
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:27,360
think it's Darlington. 
I think the first time I ever 

1462
01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:30,280
drove half from me and I was 
really nervous and I was. 

1463
01:22:30,480 --> 01:22:34,280
I was in Vegas and I had to fly 
back and it was flight Friday, 

1464
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:36,560
Friday afternoon. 
And we were supposed to be 

1465
01:22:36,880 --> 01:22:40,600
qualifying Saturday morning. 
Like I got in and literally I 

1466
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:43,200
got in just before the driver's 
briefing and let's say I was in 

1467
01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:47,560
no fit state to do anything. 
I think, I think I had to get a 

1468
01:22:47,560 --> 01:22:49,520
taxi from the airport because I 
couldn't drive. 

1469
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:55,760
And I'm thinking our first time 
I've been for half my Oh my God,

1470
01:22:55,760 --> 01:22:57,360
this diet. 
I feel rough as hell. 

1471
01:22:57,840 --> 01:22:59,680
I go to bed. 
I went to bed early doors. 

1472
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:02,480
I said both in the morning I 
could still literally. 

1473
01:23:02,480 --> 01:23:08,040
I thought I'd soon be better, 
soon double and got in the car 

1474
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:12,680
anyway. 
Took pole by quarter of a second

1475
01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:17,720
and then even 40 kilos. 
And then I won the race by 8 

1476
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:22,520
seconds. 
Do you know I must go to Vegas 

1477
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:26,000
more often? 
Did you did people know you've 

1478
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:27,800
come back from Vegas? 
Or do you keep it completely 

1479
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:30,640
hush hush? 
Well, few people knew, but you 

1480
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:33,560
know you don't. 
You don't, basically. 

1481
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:35,600
You're driving far from me. 
You don't say. 

1482
01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:38,440
Sorry, mate, I might arrive a 
little bit drunk this week. 

1483
01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:42,240
Yeah, the duty. 
Freak got me on the on the 

1484
01:23:42,240 --> 01:23:44,880
flight you. 
Try to keep it leaves me low 

1485
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:51,920
key, don't you? 
You you talk about Alfa Romeo 

1486
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:56,080
there and you move to the World 
Touring Car Championship after 

1487
01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:59,520
you left the BTCC. 
That was natural progression. 

1488
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:01,600
One didn't compete with the best
in the world, I guess, yeah. 

1489
01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:07,720
Yeah, staying in the UK and just
been three or four times BTC 

1490
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:10,200
champion. 
I'm not interested in, you know,

1491
01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:13,960
I would love to have been able 
to say I was, I was world 

1492
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:20,000
champion, I was maybe they're 
best at partying and racing, you

1493
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:21,640
know, we don't get prize for 
that. 

1494
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:26,360
And like you said, teamwork, 
that that that don't get any 

1495
01:24:26,360 --> 01:24:27,720
tougher than what you already 
had. 

1496
01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:31,720
So this was just obviously going
to claim a title and and put 

1497
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:33,160
your name on that world 
championship title. 

1498
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:37,520
So the closest you came to that 
was in 2007 when you finished 

1499
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:40,040
third in the championship. 
Was that a tough battle in what 

1500
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:44,280
was an aging car at that point? 
I think, but honestly for me, I 

1501
01:24:44,280 --> 01:24:47,160
should have, I believe 2006. 
I should have won the 

1502
01:24:47,160 --> 01:24:49,480
championship. 
I guess I'm the only person 

1503
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:52,320
who's ever led the British 
Touring Car Championship and the

1504
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:57,040
World Touring Car Championship 
after 2/3 of the season. 

1505
01:24:57,400 --> 01:25:00,520
Because I was doing first say, I
was doing half the BTC and half 

1506
01:25:00,520 --> 01:25:04,600
the world's, got an intercept 
and I was leading the leading 

1507
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:07,880
the British and the world at the
same time, which I thought was 

1508
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:09,360
quite cool. 
Yeah, that is quite cool. 

1509
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:11,760
I sound like, really arrogant 
now, don't. 

1510
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:12,160
I don't know. 
Yeah. 

1511
01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:15,280
But no one else has done it. 
I know, I know, I know. 

1512
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:17,520
I don't mean to. 
That sounds really bad. 

1513
01:25:19,160 --> 01:25:21,360
Even my cat staring at me going,
oh, dad, what you do? 

1514
01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:31,000
But yeah, it just, it just, I 
think the problem with 2006, the

1515
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:35,440
issue was they took everybody 
out the game with regard to if 

1516
01:25:35,440 --> 01:25:37,920
you led the championship, you 
had to have 80 kilos. 

1517
01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:40,400
Yeah, right. 
So I was leaving the 

1518
01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:45,440
Championship going into Bruno. 
I know I went from like. 

1519
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:49,880
Long as first corner. 
Well, the whole thing, the whole

1520
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:55,840
thing, the whole thing about a 
like a championship battle is 

1521
01:25:55,840 --> 01:25:58,880
you want to see the protagonists
at the front all the time. 

1522
01:25:59,400 --> 01:26:02,920
You give somebody 80 kilos in a 
championship that's covered by 

1523
01:26:02,920 --> 01:26:07,240
one second for 20 cars and you 
take the championship leader 

1524
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:13,160
then he qualifies 20th, you know
so you you you don't see any you

1525
01:26:13,160 --> 01:26:17,840
know you just see big swings in 
in the way the the championship 

1526
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:21,760
sort of is and you don't see 
that the competitors naturally 

1527
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:25,400
coming together to to fight. 
Weekend when? 

1528
01:26:25,400 --> 01:26:28,560
Weekend out. 
You want to see the the two free

1529
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:31,800
best drivers fighting every week
at the front. 

1530
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:34,360
You don't want to see them in 
14th, 15th every week. 

1531
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:39,040
Yeah, with no penalties on them.
Just actually fighting for the 

1532
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:41,760
race win, Yeah, yeah. 
And so that was the problem that

1533
01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:44,200
year. 
Massive swings between. 

1534
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:45,680
But the ballast was too much, 
wasn't it? 

1535
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:47,320
One thing's out. 
Thrown a bit of ballast on but 

1536
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:52,720
80 kilos like that's. 80 kilos 
with the with the non turbo cars

1537
01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:59,120
was literally almost 2 seconds 
on on a on a big lap like. 

1538
01:26:59,440 --> 01:27:01,320
Brunos, Brunos, Hilly as well, 
isn't it? 

1539
01:27:01,320 --> 01:27:02,920
So you're kind of trying to 
carry that weight uphill as 

1540
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:04,200
well. 
He's like, let's talk about 

1541
01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:06,280
punishment. 
I remember just said that. 

1542
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:09,200
My engineer just said to me, 
just just retire the car, all 

1543
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:10,240
right? 
No, no. 

1544
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:13,200
I'm going to like we 20 seconds.
You're going to destroy the 

1545
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:15,160
engine, you're going to just 
retire the car. 

1546
01:27:16,040 --> 01:27:18,880
And it's like so sad As a 
driver, you don't want to hear, 

1547
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:26,520
you know, I want to be going. 
So, you know, 2006 leading those

1548
01:27:26,520 --> 01:27:29,640
two things was such a shame. 
Unfortunately I had two engine 

1549
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:36,400
failures in Valencia that year, 
one in the race, one in in warm 

1550
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:42,000
up and that knackered me. 
I think 2007 was a very good 

1551
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:44,000
chance. 
There was just me and Priyo 

1552
01:27:44,440 --> 01:27:46,160
going into the last race of the 
year who could win the 

1553
01:27:46,160 --> 01:27:48,840
championship. 
Ivan unfortunately had an engine

1554
01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:53,600
failure the first race. 
It was me and Priyo who could 

1555
01:27:53,600 --> 01:28:00,800
win the championship and so, so 
you know, three or four times 

1556
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:03,840
win into the last race of the 
year, been able to win the 

1557
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:07,600
championship but ultimately not 
quite achieved what I should 

1558
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:10,400
have done I guess. 
So, so looking back, James ends 

1559
01:28:10,400 --> 01:28:14,160
out of all the the wide range of
touring car machinery that 

1560
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:16,840
you've driven from DTM, which 
we've just heard a bit about 

1561
01:28:16,840 --> 01:28:18,440
that, a bit of a tight squeeze 
for you. 

1562
01:28:18,440 --> 01:28:22,640
You've got super touring era, 
BTCS 2000 and then the TC-1. 

1563
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:25,280
What role set did you enjoy the 
most out of all of those? 

1564
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:31,480
I would say 99. 
Yeah. 

1565
01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:41,480
That transition from 98 to 99, 
the having the cars at the 

1566
01:28:41,480 --> 01:28:46,520
weight they were, which was like
nine, 950 kilos and plus driver 

1567
01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:52,800
stuff, having the engines the 
way they were, everything, I 

1568
01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:57,560
think that was the best that's 
ever been. 99 I reckon end of 

1569
01:28:57,560 --> 01:29:00,840
9899, I think it was absolutely 
fantastic. 

1570
01:29:00,840 --> 01:29:03,280
There's a special few years 9899
I. 

1571
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:06,520
Thought I think, I think those I
think those cars were absolutely

1572
01:29:06,520 --> 01:29:08,920
amazing. 
But I mean, I do I One thing I 

1573
01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:10,280
do. 
I do miss the rallying, though. 

1574
01:29:10,440 --> 01:29:13,160
You did a bit of rallying in the
early 2000s, didn't you? 

1575
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:16,200
You were on the network queue, 
so you did scratch that itch, I 

1576
01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:18,920
guess. 
Yeah, well that was my dad 

1577
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:24,360
wanted to be, to be a rally 
driver and you know, when he 

1578
01:29:24,360 --> 01:29:27,040
died, he did. 
He left me a wee bit of money 

1579
01:29:27,040 --> 01:29:31,160
and said, well, listen lad, I 
want you to, I want you to do a 

1580
01:29:31,160 --> 01:29:34,960
bit of rallying. 
So yeah, it was it was fun. 

1581
01:29:35,080 --> 01:29:39,160
It was it was good. 
But what I realized was the art 

1582
01:29:39,160 --> 01:29:43,400
of driving fast when you're 
rallying is your navigator all 

1583
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:44,920
right. 
So this, this is the thing. 

1584
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:47,680
It's like you all think, right, 
it's just it's just down to the 

1585
01:29:47,680 --> 01:29:50,880
guy who's driving. 
It's not your navigator is he's 

1586
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:57,520
king, you know, and and so 
learning the notes and learning 

1587
01:29:57,520 --> 01:30:01,720
the way to drive from the notes 
and everything you know is 

1588
01:30:02,600 --> 01:30:06,360
absolutely incredible. 
And I made a mistake in the 

1589
01:30:06,360 --> 01:30:10,400
beginning where when I was 
rallying I thought I'd make my 

1590
01:30:10,400 --> 01:30:12,760
own notes thinking, oh, I'll 
just do it. 

1591
01:30:13,200 --> 01:30:16,080
And like I tried to do a couple 
of allies having made my own 

1592
01:30:16,080 --> 01:30:20,920
notes, that was just ridiculous.
But you can take, organize 

1593
01:30:20,920 --> 01:30:24,280
organizers notes and then you 
can. 

1594
01:30:24,880 --> 01:30:28,880
It sounds really simple, but do 
you know what? 

1595
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:31,520
Every corner has to be the same 
every every. 

1596
01:30:31,880 --> 01:30:33,600
The way you see it has to be the
same. 

1597
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:38,240
Everything that you call and I 
say that because when you start 

1598
01:30:38,240 --> 01:30:42,800
a stage and it's foggy and you 
and they say right straight, 

1599
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:45,920
flat Crest over 200 into 90, 
right. 

1600
01:30:46,360 --> 01:30:47,760
And you're like, you sure? 
Because I can't see. 

1601
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:51,160
The fucking thing. 
And you can't see anything. 

1602
01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:56,960
And you've got your navigator 
with the with the trip with 200 

1603
01:30:56,960 --> 01:31:00,760
meters and you go, you literally
drop the clutch for 2nd, 3rd and

1604
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:06,400
he's going 5100. 
One, 5200, break 90, right and 

1605
01:31:06,400 --> 01:31:09,680
you can't see anything. 
You have to have the utmost 

1606
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:13,840
trust in those notes and your 
navigator. 

1607
01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:16,960
And you know what? 
It's I've never been my eyes out

1608
01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:20,680
on the stalks. 
It's it's absolutely incredible.

1609
01:31:20,680 --> 01:31:23,160
Yeah, your life is in his hands,
although you're driving. 

1610
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:27,840
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's 
absolutely better. 

1611
01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:34,000
I'd like to thank James for 
spending some of his extremely 

1612
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:36,440
valuable time with us today on 
Stories from Super Touring. 

1613
01:31:36,440 --> 01:31:40,120
James, thank you so much for for
coming on the show and and tell 

1614
01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:42,680
us a few tales from your career 
in in motorsport. 

1615
01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:43,200
Thank you. 
Thank. 

1616
01:31:43,240 --> 01:31:45,080
You very much. 
Thank you. 

1617
01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:47,920
Meanwhile, we'll be back next 
week, where we'll be joined by 

1618
01:31:47,920 --> 01:31:50,800
Eurosports, Greg Haynes and 
Andrew, Chairman, to look back 

1619
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:53,320
at what many call the best 
touring car race of all time, 

1620
01:31:53,800 --> 01:31:57,120
Donnington 1998. 
James, you were in that one. 

1621
01:31:57,320 --> 01:31:58,680
That was a crazy race, wasn't 
it? 

1622
01:31:58,840 --> 01:32:00,840
Can we not make it silvers to 
1998? 

1623
01:32:04,360 --> 01:32:05,720
Well, do you want especially for
you? 

1624
01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:07,480
Yeah, we will do that for you 
that. 

1625
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:08,120
Works. 
Yeah. 

1626
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:11,600
It's just just just just link me
in at the end. 

1627
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:15,800
Yeah, yeah, it's awesome. 
Yeah, yeah, really, really 

1628
01:32:15,960 --> 01:32:21,600
quick. 
Cheers guys. 

1629
01:32:22,240 --> 01:32:24,800
Don't forget, if you enjoyed 
today's episode, please make 

1630
01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:28,240
sure you give us a five star 
rating and a comment on your 

1631
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:31,040
podcast app of choice. 
And you could even e-mail us a 

1632
01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:34,920
question for our end of season 
finale Q&A episode with 

1633
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:36,960
Eurosport commentator Greg 
Haynes. 

1634
01:32:37,080 --> 01:32:39,640
If you do have a question for 
that episode, please e-mail it 

1635
01:32:39,640 --> 01:32:45,360
to Pod at 1990s btcc.com. 
In the meantime, we'll see you 

1636
01:32:45,360 --> 01:32:47,000
next week. 
Goodbye.