Stories from Super Touring. Hello and welcome to this week's
episode of Stories from Super Touring.
I'm Levi Riley, and today we're doing something a little
different and a little dangerous.
Yep, it's unpopular opinions time.
We asked you lot to send in your hottest, weirdest and most
downright criminal takes about the Super Touring era and you
did not disappoint. We've got listeners claiming
Volvo estates for the peak of touring car design, that certain
drivers were overrated and one brave soul.
He reckons that the 1997 season was better than the 1998 season.
And just to warn you all, we are naming names.
So grab a brew, settle in and prepare for some friendly
arguments, a few questionable opinions, and probably a couple
of moments where we wonder if we're about to lose half of our
listeners. Of course, I'm not tackling
these spicy takes alone. Joining me as always, and my
partner's in bad opinions, Adam and Alex.
Now this week we are not going to argue over Nigel Mansell.
OK, guys. Yeah, I'm not having it.
I'm not having it our Nige. I think they might well, I don't
know, I've seen. That look in your face, then,
was about. To help myself, got to say.
Something about Madsell at some point.
We've also got a special guest joining the chaos today, Russell
Bradley. Now Russell's done it all.
He's raced cars, spanned cars and now he's talking about cars.
Basically, if it's got four wheels and a story, Russell's
key and Russell mate, welcome to the madness.
Yes, thanks Levi Sir, it's a great honour to be with you
guys, so look forward to this evening's extravaganza.
You might not want to come back Russ We met obviously through
your work at Brands Hatchet Super Touring power.
I'd love to just chat to you about 5 minutes that you you
worked on Conrad Tim's car, who owns the Kelvin Bert Mondeo and
it must be pretty special working on some special
machinery like that. Yeah, it was definitely a a
pinch me moment, which basically came about from a picture that
had come that I'd taken, oh, back in 95 when I couldn't even
drive. My mum took me to take a test
day and I took a picture of Kelvin locking up, going into
the chicane and Super Touring 3. We, I went with me, my nephew
and my mother-in-law and was walking down the pit lane and
Kil can't remember taking the car to bits.
I think he'd been in the gravel and he was putting that together
and we started talking to his wife and, and I think he was, he
was working on the car on his own.
I said, but if you ever come back, like give me, let, let me
know. So we exchanged details and that
and then then I was lucky enough to go.
I got the call in April, I think it was to say if the offer's
still there to come and help him, which was, it was
absolutely amazing to honestly sort of never expected to to be
doing that. So.
Yeah, and you got to work on Paul McCarthy's Mazda, the 93
Patrick Watts car that he owns too.
Yes, yeah, that was, I wasn't well, one touring car was was
special enough to then to then to then get a second one to to
work on was, yeah, really special.
Great guys. I mean, what a weekend it was.
It was, it was always. I joined the Toker package
package with Colin Stankman back in 2002 and it was always a
regret that I'd never actually got into the Super Touring era.
But yeah, 30 odd years later I've done it.
I've been on the grid with a touring car.
So yeah, so it was, it was a very special, it's been a
special weekend and and lots of other stuff has come from it
since then. I mean, obviously this and I did
the Silverstone Festival with Scott O'Donnell and Alan Dipney
with their Group A Rover and Skiera.
So yeah. So it's from one thing.
I owe a lot to comrade and Paul for for giving the opportunities
that they did. So trust me with their cars.
So yeah. So yeah.
Well then, guys, let's get into these unpopular opinion, shall
we? And we'll start off with one
from Wes Shepherd, who said 1994 was the best season.
Although the championship fight wasn't a classic, we had 10
manufacturers, a decent privateer filled peak non aero
cars, the glorious 155, the Volvo estate and some great
racing. Al, should we start with you on
that one? Yeah, I mean 1994 was a great
season as as Wes says there 10 manufacturer teams both running
two car entries, although Mazda dropped out just before halfway
of the season. You had a very good privateer
field. Not quite.
I don't think it was the strongest.
I've always thought the strongest would have was 97, but
they were the peak non aero cars.
Alpha obviously stretched that a little bit with their their
Silverstone and their bits in the boots, the Volver State and
iconic car, although not as fast as people seem to remember and
great racing. Yeah, perfect.
Great racing, however. Crowds as well.
Yeah, crowds for Crows. Crows in 94.
Yeah, the racing was great. It was a fantastic year, a
stellar year for the championship.
The one thing that does bring it down slightly is the fact that
Alpha dominated. Tarquini had won the title
relatively early, not as early as he possibly should have done
considering his start to the season.
Alfred didn't win many races after the half point year
without half point of the year when BMW and Renault brought in
their wings their own aero editions.
And obviously the controversy wasn't great.
Alpha storming off home at Alton Park, Ford and Vauxhall in
particular being particularly vociferous over the aero aids.
And you know, yeah, it was a great year.
Not for me the strongest or the best year of Super Touring, but
it's definitely up there. It's not one I totally disagree
with. I just that little bit saying
it's the best, not quite for me, but certainly up there.
Yeah. I mean, I think from my end, I'd
I'd agree with you though, Alex. I think it's one of those where
perhaps if you are interested in just a pure racing element,
there was a lot of good racing that year even further down the
field. So wherever you know,
necessarily there were races where perhaps Tarquini and the
Alphas were ahead, but there was a lot of good racing behind
amongst a really deep manufacturer field as well as
said there. So I think from that
perspective, if that's your thing of just seeing some great
race in action, I could maybe see the argument there because I
think for me 98 is a better season.
But then for me, I think I'm also kind of interested in the
drama and the pettiness and the the spectacle of it, which we
did get with that title fight. And then Donnington and Brands
and, you know, Nadel and Mansell come into blows and Reed and
Rydell come into blows in the pit lane and things like that,
which you know, you don't quite get in 94, but maybe a hand.
A better debt for racing perhaps it's it's probably a fair
argument potentially there. I think you've got a point
there. The depth of the field, that
field in 94 was wild. There was about 2829 super tours
on on which which you didn't get later on in the in the in the
year. I think, I think that's why it's
spoken about as well as it is. I think like the Volvo 2025 and
we're still talking about the Volvo estate.
And it'll always be the case as long as we we're still alive.
There's people that have that lived through that era.
You know, my kids won't have a clue what we're talking about,
you know, in a few years to come, but we're still talking
about it now. And I think that's why that
massive contingency of manufacturers was like huge,
like such a big deal. You have to, you know, cash your
minds about that far. It was such a big deal and you
have all of these international drivers and, you know,
manufacturers from different countries coming in and it was
all, it was such a massive hike. But I think that's why 1964 is
spoken about from where it's there, particularly about, you
know, you mentioned 145, the Volvo, you know, and the, the
amount of manufacturers because it, it was a, a real strong
field, wasn't it? And you never knew what you were
going to get. That's what I loved about
touring cars. You never knew what you were
going to get, what drama was going to unfold at any point.
But you know, there's so many years to pick from.
But like, I agree with Levi in 98, but then you've got the
reasons to to talk about 94. So I think, you know, And that's
what makes that era so bloody good.
Russ, what what are your memories of of 94 is a season 1
you look back on fondly? Do you think it's it's the best
of the best or or perhaps that level?
Yeah, it probably wasn't. I think there wasn't as many.
I mean, I don't know, see Ford Evolver at the folder.
Alfa Romeo were battling quite hard initially at the beginning
of the season. They really, I mean, I think
Ford kind of thought they had it in the bag from their efforts
the previous year. And then Alfa's kind of pulled
the, pulled the pants down a bit, didn't they really?
And they were. But yeah, I think definitely the
Volvo, there was some iconic cars in that in that race in in
that year. But I don't think necessarily it
had the the big sort of crescendo like 92 maybe.
And obviously right there when Reed's kind of there wasn't much
of that kind of the action off and on the on the track, if you
know what I mean. It was quite other than the
initial bit with Simonian Reddish each I think.
Other than that, it must be pretty.
Alan Hunt, I suppose is is you could say Harvey and menu
because I think they had a bit of a pop at each other a few
times, didn't they on track? Yeah, Yeah, they did.
Yeah, yeah, probably. Yeah.
It's a good season, but it's not, it's not the best, I would
have said. I think Ford's role, as she
says, is probably the big factor in that as well, because they
they probably in terms of pace were the challenges to Alpha.
But that early part of the year, they really fell over their own
tail quite a bit, didn't they? You know, you had a point in in
the early part of the year where but our queen had twice the
points of the man in second, but the man in second was actually
John Clinton. It wasn't wasn't a Ford driver.
So that probably think, I think that if Ford had taken advantage
of their opportunities, perhaps you'd have seen a closer battle
from the start, which might have made things a bit more
interesting come, you know, the end of the summer into the
autumn. I I have possibly big unpopular
opinion about the Ford team that year in the if they'd had how to
word this without upsetting people.
I think I know what you're going to say.
If they'd have had a different driver in the second car.
As much as I love Dandy Rose, absolute legend of the sport, a
huge name, wonderful engineer, you know, won those World Cups
with the Mondeo, engineering them, built and designed those
Mondeo's beautifully. I just think 94 was a year too
much for Rouse and the style of racing was going away from what
Rouse was. Yeah, yeah.
And that's no slight on Rouse. And I'm, I'm trying to tread
carefully here not to upset any Rose fans listening, but I think
the the touring car championship was moving away from the likes
of Rouse. And I think if Ford had had
someone different in that car, it might have been different.
I don't know. It might not have been.
I just thought that Rouse was probably not quite the right guy
for the second seat in 94 it. Was super I know we spoke about
him before and like I said, he's an absolute legend when it comes
when you you know, you just they're just aligned him and
BTCC just those two words. They are.
And I remember growing up as as a kid when I was younger and you
know, rouse in the RS5 hundreds and and you know, certainly it
was just a dominant force, wasn't he?
But you're right, and we've spoke about this before that the
the driving changed, the cars changed, but I think just the
the fierceness changed a bit as well.
And I don't think that he's one of these guys that will leave
from the front, missed a consistency come back with a car
absolutely gleaming like it went out the garage touring cars
changed, you know, it changed and you would, you know, if you
came back with no mirrors on it, That was pretty normal Back
panels. That was pretty normal bump
ranging off. That was pretty normal.
But to me, I don't I never saw Andy as that that guy that would
want to be involved in that way. No, that's if you know what I
mean. Like he wasn't the one that
would he wasn't the one that would get his elbows out and not
like wouldn't give a shit like most of the others.
But it's almost like looking looking at it.
You have to be ruthless to get in amongst it.
So otherwise you'd just get mugged every time.
You know, you've got to be the one getting your elbows out
otherwise you'd end up being, you know, losing 5 places in the
first corner or you know, it's very, very similar to when I was
doing it. But I think it was a lot rougher
and tougher then through that era.
And I think because you've got all these superstars in there
getting paid, shed loads of money, the massive pressures
they've got, and it was a spectacle, wasn't it?
Well, none of them. None of them were paying the
bills, were they? No, they came back.
They came back with the front end, all damage.
They weren't having to fork out for the repo replacements.
Yeah, exactly. Tell me that I've got an
unlimited budget and I've probably done the same.
Yeah, exactly. And, and and the fact that I was
getting paid to do it. Like when isn't it?
It's your ideal job. Do what you've got to do to win.
You're still going to get a paycheck and you haven't got to
get a proper job. You know, that's that's your
ideal position to be. But yeah, I didn't think that
particular era suited Andy, which I know we've spoke about
before because he's super consistent, super smooth and but
yeah, absolute legend. Next we have one from Chris
Phillips, who wrote in to say that Rouse should have had the
chance to continue with the Nissan in 1997 for the full
works effort, adding that RML didn't pull up trees in 1997.
Back on the subjects of Ross. Interesting that I thought
Nissan, I thought RML did great with the car the first year
really got some podiums and they were developing a whole new car
up against Renault. Yeah, Williams, Renault, who had
had the engineer who'd been engineering the Laguna for three
years at that point and were dominant.
You know, you look at Volvo, they had a similar year with the
S40, their brand new car. You know, Ricard did win once
Nissan, they did, they were they they didn't get a race victory,
but they were up there, especially really in qualifying,
I think. And then obviously look at what
RML went on to do in 99 in in 98 and 99.
You know, that late season charge for Reed in 98 and that
Aiello well clean sweep in 99. You know that car, the, the, the
Nissan was a dominant car from the second-half of 98.
So RML did do well with the Nissan.
I don't know what Rouse would have done with it.
None of us can know that. But when you look back at the
the Nissan record for 9397 to 99 with RMLI, don't think there's
going to be many detractors. No, no.
Yeah, I think there's, I saw there's two things to look at.
There's we don't know what would have happened if Francis could
continued with it, but RML I think did an absolute mega job.
And I think like you said, looking at second-half in 98
onwards, 97 was just a learning year for them, wasn't it, to
develop it and they needed. To be and you always need a
learning, a learning year with a brand new car when you're in
such an ultra competitive championship like the BTCC was.
Russ, what about, what about you?
Do you think that was a about 97 year quite, quite a good one
from RML to forgive me for what they've dealt with them that are
in different hands? Well, you've only really got to
look at what they have have rasted with the car and the
Nissan in 96 really to kind of yeah, it wasn't it wasn't the
great. I don't know if it was the car
itself, but I think I think RML were definitely on sadly on
Rouse was kind of no disrespect, but I think that RML was
technical. They were, they were definitely
a few strides ahead. I would say in, in, well, you've
only got to see what they did when they sort of took Dave
Cooks. They come out with a, you know,
it goes back to the Cavalier. They they were on a, they
weren't a works team, were they? And they obviously had the right
personnel to sort of develop the Cavalier.
And then obviously, you know, they moved and they were, they
would definitely move them in the right direction.
Weren't they really? Was the way they were developed
in cut in the direction of developing cars?
So yeah. Oh, that's sorry.
It's a rash, but I think every dog has its day sometimes.
Nissan's in, I mean the Nissan's in 96 was the strange cars that
they were a year old at one point that they did get
eventually they did get some 96 Trasties, but a lot, a lot of
the year was spent. They were uncompetitive cars.
You know, were the drivers going to be as competitive as the
other works cars? Drivers?
Of course, they were semi works. They weren't independent.
They weren't works teams. They were, they weren't a works
effort. But you know, Gary Ailes, good
peddler. Owen McCauley.
I don't know enough about Owen McCauley to say whether it was
the car or the driver. I who who knows?
Those cars weren't great, but there there was nothing there
that made me think, oh, they should have had the the the car
for 97 too. Next up, we have one from Jake
Callahan. He says that he preferred
Charlie Cox's commentary with John Watson over that of Murray
Walker now. And now this is a hard 1.
I think it's a tough one to look at, but I think it's not as
controversial as perhaps. I'd like.
Here on the surface. These days, I'd like to clarify.
Jake is a real person. We've met him.
It's not me under a pseudonym, OK?
Jake is real and it's not me. I promise.
We all love a Murray ISM though. Yeah, don't we?
We do. So I think, I think for me.
That's the that's the nostalgia thing, is the Yeah.
So that's why you sing. Oh, well, we do see Murray here.
Like this is Murray. That's like Alex dissing Mansell
as soon as you mentioned he's all, you know, it's, you know,
it's yeah, I don't know. That's that.
I get it. I think the commentary was
great, absolutely great. But like you said, Marie was
Marie was so unique. Murray brought touring cars to a
lot of people because they would have heard his commentary.
Yeah, they know who he was. Yeah, exactly if.
Murray was commentating on it then it was worth listening to.
He brought a he brought a level of respect to the championship
that that people maybe you know, they didn't realise what it was
at 1st. And now you say Murray's
commentating this watch. You know, I agree with Jake.
For me, Charlie Cox and John Watson were better.
They were more suited to the, the, the hustle and bustle, the
style of racing. I like the fact that there were
two of them. I like the fact that Charlie Cox
was the, the lead commentator with a bit of patter funny
suited the, the, the, the style of racing.
And I did enjoy what is the admonishment of drivers and you
know, it wasn't towing cars. But one of my favourite ones is
have you not read your rule book at Ricardo Reset when he came
around the corner in an FP session in at the Nurburgring, I
think it was in 1986 on Eurosport and he went into an
absolute tirade. No, look at that Ricardo.
Reset, you fool. Do you not use your eyesight?
Do you not realise that there are waved yellow flags around
the circuit? Have you not read your rule book
that says when there's a wave yellow flag there's a hazard on
the circuit? What?
He similarly did it with Jason Plato, didn't he?
In 2000, he called Tim Harvey rude boy, poor.
We're not going, we're not talking super touring at this
one, but Phil Bennett received an absolute role again of what
he on several occasions during 2001.
I like the fact that what he said what he thought and I like
that he was not backwards in coming forwards with an opinion.
If he thought something was bad he said it straight and didn't
care. It was like.
No Philtre, wasn't it? But and as you say, Adam, that
feels like you're dissing on Murray Murray Broad
championship. There are still people, you
know, John Cleland said to us a few weeks ago on the episode
that's due to come out next week actually, that we've got with
John that the amount of people that still come up to him to
this day and stick their middle finger up.
So Don Trellan is sandwiched between the two BMWs.
I'm going for first, says Don. Trellan, you know that was very
all over, wasn't it? That you know that that was the
car upside down is a Toyota brilliant genius.
But that's what matters. Unique.
Like I wouldn't not watch it because he was commentating.
I would not watch it for the others.
I don't think that they all did US stupendous job at like do
any, any, you know, it's just, yeah, it's Murray.
You know, if he, if he was commentated on it, no matter
what it was, it was horse racing, you'd watch it because
it was Murray. It's that, it's that classic
clip, isn't it? I don't know if it's from Woven
or Parkinson or or whatever it is.
Yeah, I know the one you're about.
Is it Clarkson? When he had his trash.
Treated on when he's commentated on snooker and he's coming to
exactly the same as Murray Walker and here we are.
That's Ronnie O'Sullivan and this man is absolutely
sensational. He's using the special high grip
chalk on his queue and the queue itself is a very high tech piece
of equipment. Now watch him.
Which ball is he going to hit? He's going to hit the white ball
and he's going to hit straight on the yellow ball and back goes
the queue and slam. He's missed it.
Fantastic.
I mean, I think a lot of it also is there was a very distinct
change in the coverage when it went from Murray to to Charlie
and and Mossy, didn't it? There was a, you know, when it
was Murray, it was this he wanted to the on his own, the,
you know, the the what, 20 to 25 minute packages?
And then, you know, it did get more and more and I think he
never really agreed with that or the live races and, and things
like that. He had a certain production
value that he adhered to, didn't he?
And then when I think BBC wanted to take it another way once
they'd lost Formula One and wanted really the touring cars
to be the premier for with Motorsville on there.
They wanted it to be more like what modern sports broadcasting
was becoming by the late 90s, which was, you know, the
influence of Sky and you know, the analysis and the pre and
post race and the colour commentator much more existing
and, and things like that. So, you know, at that point
that's obviously where it kind of fitted really well, didn't
it? Then Murray committed to ITV and
F1 more and we we got Charlie and Wasi.
And I think probably then you get 2 very different products
from both of those that feel very like, very much like their
products as well to those commentators, which, you know, I
think it's partly because that's what they wanted to make, but
also because of the how the BBC wanted to make it at those
different points. Yeah, well, yeah, BBC lost F1 at
the end of 96 to ITV immediately.
They put BTCC from 30 minutes to 60 minutes.
Yeah. And they wanted three live race
meetings a year. Murray struggled to commit to
that, did it for the first year, but I think he he missed 2
meetings, one at Donnington and one at thrust in the Barry
Nutley commented, commentated on instead.
And then I think Murray realised, look, I can't do both.
And obviously F1 was his bread and butter wasn't it?
You know, and also, as you said there Levi, we've spoken to
Steve Ryder and and and talked about the live stuff in our
brands 97 episode where Murray wholeheartedly disagreed with
the Championship going live it. Didn't want to do.
No. So it's, it's an interesting 1.
The whole politics behind it is even more interesting.
But for me, for the for the, for the production, yeah, I thought
the the, the Cox and Watson stuff was I preferred it.
I did prefer it. And that's no slight on Murray,
who was also brilliant. Next up we have one from Luke
Koch, who says Read never deserved a title and always
bottled it under fresher. Now this is, I think this is
controversial not because if necessary the content, but
perhaps how direct it is with how it's delivered, perhaps
Russ, I mean Anthony as we know got very close on 2 occasions,
1998 and 2000. I'm guessing busted.
That under pressure refers to the fact that Anthony had two
chances in the last race of meeting of the season and lost
it in his, you know, with various escapades, some of his
faults, some is not what what did you make of his his
championship challenges? 98 was definitely a not not his
crown and glory was it was it? But yeah, I suppose we've the
final one of the season, obviously been a night race as
well as not. I'm trying to I'm trying
struggling to remember that the actual the final race because I
can remember something happened, didn't didn't say who when.
So in 98. Didn't mean you go out in the
first part. Yeah, so in 2000, many went out
in race one, but then Reed got caught up with, oh, Tarquini.
Right. And then?
And then in race 2, Reedy was just behind Alan and wasn't it
was in his hands, but he tangled with Rademacher and was then
ended up in the gravel. Right.
Yeah, well, I think Peter's right in terms of not be there,
Luke, sorry, in terms of the the pressure side of it.
I think when he did come to the crunch, he wasn't, he was
involved in something he shouldn't have been involved in.
Not like a menu that I got the job done, finds a way of getting
the job done. You know, it was to consistency
I think and it was too inconsistent yes to to fully,
you know, get there at the end. I agree in that year he had the
quickest car and for some some reason he just saw red and if
you remember going into Abby he just absolutely harpoons
Thompson and. Getting ahead of Anthony Reed is
what James Thompson was trying to do side by side through
Maggots and Becketts. James Thompson is absolutely
nailing Anthony Reid. They're heading down to the
Island chicane. They can't get through there.
Two by two and he's back in front of him.
Amazing stuff. Reid was challenging right now.
Thompson's now back in front of him.
He shot the fox. A strong pass by James Thompson.
He took the initiative. He forced Anthony Reid to stay
out. No, Reid don't onions and bang
into the back of the Honda. And that was simply Mission
Impossible by the championship contender, Anthony Reid.
And just ruins both their races and you're just thinking why are
you doing that? Well, yeah, that's it.
Like what? the Champions?
Yeah. Like he said, he sees red
almost. You look at the big picture, if
you can't win it, finish second, pick up points, you know, and
have that. I think he was very much all or
nothing, but almost forgot that he was in the championship.
Well, he came across almost like he forgot he was in the
championship battle. Like he said, kind of harpooned
somebody. I was only going to end up one
way when he hit someone that hard and you know, things like
that, little moments like that, you're punishing yourself
throughout the season. Tomo put a brilliant move of him
going through maggots and Beckett's.
If you remember there was, they came round to the, there was an
island chicane. There was a chicane.
There wasn't gain, wasn't there? And Tomo put it and it was a
brilliant move, absolutely brilliant move.
But at that, at that point in time, Tomo had the quicker car
because if you remember, he chased down even after that
incident, he came back, chased down Ryedale and took the lead.
Was on one that. Weekend was on one that weekend.
James actually said it was one of his best weekends.
It was his favourite race if you remember, so really should have
seen that. OK, that's not my battle but he
can go and catch Ricard and then I can latch on the back of him
and get Ricard. He should have been thinking
long term but for some reason he saw red.
Tom had passed him in this with this great manoeuvre and it
wasn't even a close 5050 possible incident.
He absolutely slammed into the flank of of of the Honda and and
just ruined his chances and I will never understand now until
this day. We've 2000, we've discussed many
times on here about that year was the year of the dropped
points system and in terms of overall points, Anthony would
have won the title. One thing like I've realised,
another actually discussed on here is, is there an argument,
especially with Alan being quite calculated at times, Do you
think there's an argument to say that at the end of the day, all
of them knew the rules at the start of the season, knew there
was going to be dropped scores and that was the regulations of
the year and, and Alan played best to that and Anthony didn't.
Do you think there's an argument in that there?
And and perhaps he should have been more aggressive in that
race, well knowing that he had no results to give.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I suppose, you know, if you've got a couple
of drop scores in your pocket, you could.
Yeah. I, I don't know.
I don't know is the honest answer.
But it was a total opposite in his 98 where he was blisteringly
quick and dominating, really was just there he picked.
Don't get me wrong, he won races, but he was there picking
up the solid point 2nd, 3rd every time, which is what he
should have done in 98. You see where it is?
It's it's funny, isn't it? I think it's hard to say he
bottled it. I don't know, maybe I mean it's
not it's a bit dismissive of of, of the man's talents, if you get
me. I know it's the whole footballer
fan type thing to sort of say, oh, he's bowled it and all this.
Did he deserve a title? You could argue 2000.
I don't think he deserved 98 because Ricard just did a better
job all year. Next up we have one from Peter
Marshall. And Peter, I think you've been,
I think you've been quite cheeky here with how you murdered this
Craig bear. That's what it's called.
Greg Baird would have won it Donnington in 1998.
Has he not had to step aside for a celebrity?
It's also not me. Again, I promise it's not me.
I mean, I will, I will cross over to the, the resident
stories from Super Touring Nigel Mansell fan club representative
Adam Jones because I, I, I'm going to infer that the
celebrity is Nigel. What do you make of that?
That's. Right, folks, he was a
celebrity. What I mean, what do you make
because Nigel, you know, gave it a a cracking shot at it, didn't
he? And you know, obviously that was
the later in the race faded a little bit obviously with, you
know, going wide a couple of times and all of that.
Do you think in that's, I guess probably the question or do you
think in that situation someone like Craig Bad perhaps would
have taken the opportunity better or do you think Nigel
made that opportunity exist in the first place?
There's two ways of looking, I think acknowledge that at the
race that he did and you know the crowds loved it and it was a
great entertainment. Man saw F1 coming into the
touring cars. That's one story itself.
But to say that Craig would have won the race, that's not me say
well, if four of the right remaining 4 numbers that I
didn't get in the lottery that came in there, I'll have been
multi millionaire right now. So we can all say that if this
sort of happened then that then you know this would have been
the outcome. No one's got the crystal ball to
know that that would have been. I mean, I don't know.
Do you think Craig would have won the championship if Nigel
Lander took his seat? That's how he won the race.
Not if Nigel under took his seat.
Alex, you're shaking your head. It's, it's a, it's a reach,
isn't it? No.
I think it's a reach. Yeah.
Well, you know, Peter's clearly a Craig Bad fan, but always he's
just an anti Mantle fan. You sure this isn't you?
Are you? Are you?
I've got all these questions. Bedo struggled in the Ford,
didn't he? I mean, the Ford is a
competitive car. The Ford was a competitive car.
He led it knock hill when he started on inters, when everyone
else started on slicks, went off when the rain became too hard
for interview. He didn't.
He wasn't when Will won at Silverstone, it wasn't like
Craig was right behind him or, you know, runner up or in the
top five. So there's nothing to say that
Beard would have won that race. I don't.
I don't think Craig Beard would have done what Nigel Mansell did
in that race. Well done, well done.
So you're coming around to the Nigel myself.
Send you an invitation to the Nigel Mansell Fan Club if that
is in the post. Yeah, I don't know.
I, I think that's what it boils down to.
If, if do people think Craig Baird could have done what
Mansell did? And I I don't think so, no.
But, but I think any, any race throughout the season would it
would be likely to have won a race not just there, but would
you put Craig up there to go? He's going to win a race or two
or three this season like he was never in a position to, really.
No, he was given, he was from, from from from his side of it,
having spoken to him about his year at at Ford.
He was given a pretty bum deal. Never tested the 98 car before
the start of the season, then suddenly W Surrey and Ford go
right here's your 98 car, it's qualifying for Thurston, Off you
go. He'd won.
Well, he'd been disqualified from the victory at Bathurst
over driver hours. He clearly a talented Super
Touring driver, but that Ford, That Ford of the dog.
Yeah, he never showed that he was.
What I'm saying is that I'm not distributed as a driver,
absolutely not in terms of BTCCI, never saw him as in he's
going to win the next. One.
No, no, no. You're.
Right. You'd need never be on your top
five drivers to say he's going to win in the next race, would
he? For the car and him, the
nomination was, it wasn't, Yeah, it wasn't up there for me.
It never. It never showed itself apart
from one brief 6th place at Snetterton which is the
highlight of the year, so I know I can't see it, but there we go,
that's what Peter thinks. Next up we have one from John
Davis which says that the BCCC went downhill after the 1997
season. Now this, this infers, I think
that Levi. Wants to answer this.
This one. I I think this infers that 1998
isn't good. I'm trying to be I'm trying to
be kind and think what is John trying to say here?
What is his argument? And I perhaps think John's
argument is that the budgets and commercialisation that and
caused issues by 2000, you know, I think that they did seem to
feel like a big jump in the top cars really pulled away, I think
a little bit in 98. You know, people, you know, the
Peugeot weren't really anywhere, you know, and, and pulled out
and, you know, things like that. ALDI obviously lost the four
wheel drive fully and and fell a step back.
So I guess maybe this, you know, from that perspective, you could
say it went downhill. You started to lose teams from
the 1998 seasonable manufacturers rather the
independent field, especially in terms of its depth, I think
probably got worse after the 97 season.
We've already mentioned, you know in this episode that 97 had
a very strong independent field that I think maybe wasn't true
in following seasons. I, I think that my issue with it
is that 98 is I think almost unanimously in a top three of
Super Touring seasons, if not BCCC seasons, like to say it
went downhill after 97. Even if you didn't like 99 and
2000. I I. 1998 is one of the best
seasons of motorsport and in any category for me.
I don't know, Maybe he's maybe he's a big Ally menu fan,
perhaps he drives, perhaps he still drives a Renault Laguna to
this day. Who knows?
Or drink Calibre beer, yes. Maybe yeah, but I don't know how
anyone can watch 98 and go, well, that was that was a shit
season, but we'll be watching that again.
I just don't understand it personally.
Russell, maybe you can help us. Is there any rationale that
you're pulling out of this from John us all?
Well, you've, I suppose you were starting, the manufacturers were
starting to drop off a bit, weren't they really?
I suppose if you if you're looking at the spectacle of of
big grids. That's probably what John's
referring. Seriously.
He tells us what you already mentioned, but.
The calibre, what you said calibre, yeah, the calibre of
drivers you had to probably the best in the world in that series
at the time when an English driver was getting less and
less. There were more international
drivers in the Touring Car Championship at that point
compared to probably anywhere else, so.
You you're right that that probably makes a good point is
that the manufacturers, this was when they realised, well, we're
not winning anymore. We don't want to play and pull
in their plugs on their programmes.
End of 98, Audi and Peugeot go 99, three more go Volvo,
Renault, Nissan. It's that possibly is where John
is coming from. But yeah.
Of course, 1997 was the last year that Lava Land was on the
calendar as well. That Batmouth Toca one reference
there next. Yeah, and it was the end of
Patrick Watson's BTCC Courier. Exactly.
I mean it's otherwise I do not know actually.
There you go. Do you know what?
John's right. Yeah, do you see Patrick got in
trouble the other day. He got kicked off a flight for
vaping. Brilliant.
Right. Great classic, Patrick.
What story that really isn't there?
Brilliant, isn't it? Yeah.
Next up we have one from Paul Smith, which is on a similar
thing of of the championship going downhill.
I guess the wings that Alfa Romeo introduced to the BTCC
effectively ruined the championship.
But Russell, what are your thoughts?
I mean, this, this, this kind of goes into the what do you prefer
the the pre 95 or the post 95 cars, doesn't it?
But do you, I think regardless of your thoughts, whether you
think the pre 95 or better cars, do you think the later cars
ruined the championship? I think Alpha definitely is
probably one of the at the start if if they hadn't have done it,
someone else would have done it. Seriously, it was just if.
We were just clever and we're on it first, wasn't that?
Then everyone wanted to pull a suit.
Yeah. And so possibly, yeah, it, it
was inevitable that it was going to happen.
Nothing really. It would then you think it was
you'd had the first what, 3, three years, all the cars pretty
much looked showroom as you'd buy from the showroom.
And then all of a sudden there were some extra bits, wasn't
there? That sort of Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it was funny that Renault and BMW had stuff very
quickly to sort of bring into the party.
So it kind of makes you think that were they going to be the
ones that were going to bring something to the to the
playground if if Alpha hadn't? Yeah, I think that is key is
that you've got to remember if Alpha hadn't done it, someone
else would have. And from what I understand,
Renault were one of the teams that were not far away from
doing it themselves. So you know, the, the, the, the
rules regarding the homologation of the cars and how many had to
be had to be made of that particular specification was so
low that at some .1 car company, yes, one car company was going
to go. Do you know what that's worth
it? This let's produce 1000 of these
stick like Alpha did stick the wings on and away we go and
dominate and did it ruin the championship?
I don't know. It certainly spiralled the the
costs. That's one thing it definitely
did. But if you listen to Tarquini,
he swears to this day it was the DIF that was the difference and
not the arrow. And, and I can't do that with
Paul Rod, Paul Radisich saying utter rubbish when I spoke to
everybody at Brian's Hatch a few years ago.
So yeah, it's, it's an interesting one, yes.
Did it ruin the championship? I'm not sure it ruined.
I think it added a little bit of drama.
I think it definitely ruined Ford's chances.
Personally, I think they, I think they whether whether or
not, you know, if Alpha hadn't have come in, was fooled of have
done nothing. It didn't like the ball.
And I think what we said there about the manufacturers like
Renault, we're doing it in the background and BMWI think you
might find those three main players.
It was probably, probably all do it all doing it in the
background, getting it all set up.
But it was a race to who could get there first.
Like you said, it's involving, it's involving Rd cars still got
to manufacture this stuff somehow get it into production.
But what like Alpha did, well doesn't have to be on the car.
That'll just sent a shed load of them to all the dealers, throw
them in the boot to all the cars.
So it looks like the cars arrived with the with the aero
kit in the boot of the car, but it hasn't.
They've just shipped it all out. You'll probably find that BM,
we're going to probably do the same right now.
We can do the same. So I don't necessarily have
reacted to what they've done. I think you'll probably find
that they're all doing it in the background thinking, you know,
the word gets out. They're all know what's going
on. But it was a race that because
you, because you're involved in the main manufacturing, it's not
just a race team where we could just manufacture it and slap it
on ourselves because it's involving like headquarters as
such, I think it'd have been a race.
Because you're getting the dealers involved and all that.
So, and I think Alpha just did a better job.
This is, I think on that note, the other thing that I think
probably we forget because it's the VTCC and it all happened
here and it all kicked off here, is that even if every team in
the BTCC had gone, no, we're not going to do that.
Someone in Germany would have done it, someone in France would
have done it, someone else would have done it.
And the actual directive for 95 came from the FIA.
Yeah, yeah. But the FIA would have got
involved at some point because somebody would have done it
somewhere. Because ultimately the moment
you're getting cars based on productions made is you're going
to headquarters saying we're going to make this version of
the car. Do you agree?
So someone was going to do it. So I think at that point it's
easy to forget. I think because it happened in
Britain that it was all it was all to do with Britain and and
the BTCC and and XYZ. It would have happened somewhere
else had it not happened in the UK and.
Then it would have done it in Germany.
Yeah. And then, and then at that point
the FI would have gone in 95 or 96 had it happened to you later.
We're going to have aero and and the teams in Britain weren't
going to miss out. They'd have, they'd have still
rocked up with it. So you know what, I think at
that point it was always going to happen.
It was the way the championship was was always going to go
because when things get more popular like that, teams take
more risks, put more money in and ultimately want to make the
cars go far. That was one of the only ways
they probably could by that point.
Win on Sunday, sales on Monday, yeah, Yeah.
So that was that. Maybe that was the that was the
key back then. And that's right because if you
speak to John Cleland, who obviously everyone associates
with Vauxhall in the British Toy Cup Championship all the way
through, as we as most people probably know now who listen and
still is a Volvo dealer. So his bread and butter Monday
to Friday was selling Volvos. And he said to me a couple of
weeks ago that in 94, the amount of people that came into his
dealership go in, oh, that's that estate car that raced on
on, on grandstand on BBC the other day.
Let's have a look at that. And the amount of people
interested in Volvos shot up in 94 purely because of Volvo's
involvement. And let's remember that that the
estate wasn't the best car in 94.
Wasn't the IT was nowhere near the best car?
You know, marketing genius. Absolutely yes.
Yeah, changed the brand forever. Yeah, and as Adam said, we're
still talking about it now in 202531 years ago, what you know
what Volvo did and and John gave it the similar example to me and
he said nobody wanted to know anything about Subarus until
Colin McRae came along and made his cool and made St Pretz is
cool and and and I always think Matt and Neil made premier is
cool The the the the glamour and and the excitement of of Max
power and that Nissan looked cool and that's that's what
happened. These cars may were bought.
Oh yeah, they became cool and people were buying and.
That's what they're doing. Is that brand association.
You put a Volvo in the touring car grid straight away you're in
like the best championship in the world for motor sport and
the Volvo's in there. You've got Max power, which was
massive back back in his dice all over the side of a touring
car. What's that going to do?
Rigs, the glamour, brings everything around it and that's
all that brand. Absolutely.
Brand, good marketing and. Going back to the Alpha thing,
what we've got to remember as well is that Alpha head Alpha
hid it in the preseason test. They didn't run with the hero
stuff. They hid it even at Thruxton on
the day be on the, on the Thursday run shakedown on the
Friday test day, they didn't, they didn't run them.
Gabrielli said to us that that was because of the homologation
dates and all this rubbish that, that was because they didn't
want anyone knowing they're not going to wheel out these things
with the, do you remember? It actually had the space, the,
the, the extenders in the rear wing that just released it.
And then the, the, the, the extended spoiler on the front,
on the front splitter. There's no way that they, they
would just say, oh, we can't run this yet because of the
homologation. Do you know what I mean?
It's, I love the, it brought a bit of F1 to touring cars, which
I thought was quite cool. It's a strange way.
Yeah, I quite like the drama of it all.
And you know, Ford are kicking off and Andy Roush has gone to
buy a 155 Silverstone. I did enjoy as well the
pettiness of Ford naming the the the cancer attack, the Monza.
The Monza was it was it was it was a funny little dig.
But did it ruin touring cars? No, I don't think it ruined
touring cars, but it possibly made the racing different,
better or worse. That's up to personal opinion,
but it definitely did have an impact on the style of racing.
I have the championship not got to that level with, you know, it
made it look more glitz and glamoury when these cars came
out of the big wings in 95. And it made it feel more, I
don't know a professional about it.
Definitely if you're an F1 driver that's been booted out,
you see, you're going to think you're going to drive one of
those cars with the massive wings more than you were going
to drive one of those, you know, 9394 one day is it looked a bit,
you know, dealer showroomy. So I think it definitely
probably attracted international drivers more.
So what you think, Levi? They've always got off on one
now. I think it made, I think it was
part of it, part of the story that it it became so ridiculous.
That's the excess of the era is always part of the story.
We have the championship then just kind of you've not stalled
but kept on its way with those pre 95 cars.
In no era when the cars just changed shape over time a little
bit and then the love for it fizzle down.
Would we look back a suddenly. I think the fact that it
exploded in its face in 2000 probably and just ended gives it
a bit of bit of the story that ends, doesn't it?
That's all folks. Thanks for.
Listening to me, that was a hell of a random for me.
Still know where that came from? Levi didn't know he had it in
your mind. I suppose if you get you think
about it, the Williams Williams were going to be in for 95 S
wings and spoilers where it was inevitable if there if.
If they weren't building a couple without air or will that.
No TWR, so no, obviously. So it was even if one aero
definitely was going to be, it was going to happen, wasn't it?
Yeah. Yeah.
Next up from Steven Rawson, we have the Anthony Reed should
have stayed at Nissan in 1999 as instead Lauren ILO stole his
Thunder. I'll come to you first on this
one, Adam, as a driver, because I think it probably was a
situation when Anthony signed for Ford in 1999 that he knew
the car he was driving was going to be taking a step back in
competitiveness. Almost certainly as he's told
us. We know that the reason you took
that deal was because Ford offered him a two year deal,
paid very well as opposed to Nissan's one year deal and the
security of it. As a driver with that real life
element, do you think you'd have done the same as Anthony or do
you think you'd have you'd have gone for that glory in 99?
100% I don't know exactly what Anthony, they've got to think
these drivers, this is their job.
Yeah, we've got families that got homes like most of us.
And one year deal wasn't guaranteed to win the
championship. That wasn't even if you stayed
there, especially Anthony, him and him and ILO, 2 completely
different people. So he might have had the best
car, but as we know Anthony could build it.
They'll be erratic at times. So it doesn't mean he's going to
be guaranteed a drive, but to go and have an offer from Ford of
all people, as they don't come much bigger than that from
manufacturers, They were probably paying me more a year
than what Nissan were, and they've guaranteed him for two
years. What would anybody listening
this to? Yeah, Alice.
Yeah. So yeah, you can look back now
and go, yeah, he stole his them because ILO came in, just did
what he did, drop the mic and then just pissed off back to
France. I mean, like, what a job.
I've said this before, but like and I because I think I said
this to Laurent when he was on their lot, how impressive.
What he did? When he came into this
championship, if so, I don't want to say underrated because
when you think about it, you realise what how well he did do,
but he didn't know the circuits. He didn't know what the crack
was with the beats ACC too much in terms of, you know, watched a
bit of fortune here and there. But to come in, do what he did
and then just go was not even now so impressive.
Like, honestly, hats off to that man because and he's and he's so
softly, calmly spoken, isn't he? I don't think he, and we know
this actually out the fact that he doesn't realise how loved he
was and how much he was appreciated.
I think because he was only there for a season and he's
gone. You know, you build up this
rapport with people and and this relationship with the fans and
the drivers over time. And I think like when, when you
saw him at brands a couple of years back at the Super tour in
power and like he was shocked at the how much people wanted to be
around him, talk to him. He was a bit I think he was a
bit overwhelmed boy. And I think that's, I think I
know menus got quite emotional before when he's been a brands
about it, not realising the that nostalgia and what what it still
means to people. That was with menu doing what
he's done for years and years and years in the championship.
Aiello came for one season and that was it.
And I think he was really, really humbled by it, wasn't he?
I think yeah, there was. So I think for yeah.
You say he stole his Thunder. He didn't.
He just came in, got the job done.
I think there's two stories there.
I think you've got Reed Reedy going up and forward.
And we've just explained why, you know, the finances and the
fat Ford are doing it. Two years could have led to to
to a bit longer or doing other stuff with Ford, but and, and
really had a long relationship with Nissan, didn't he?
And he obviously knew that was coming to an end.
And you've got to kind of make the right choices personally,
not just from the race inside of things.
But yeah, I think Aiello needs so much credit for what he did,
but I still don't think he'll ever fully realise just how good
of a job he did. Imagine coming from where he's
coming. Rocket but not kill.
Do you know what I mean? Thinking like what?
Where am I? Like this circuit?
Like the where's the first corner?
Oh, it's just over that Crest there.
And then it drops down and then you can't see that.
Yeah, you can't. You can see the second corner,
but you can't see the 3rd and 4th, 1:00 because that's just
over. Like, Can you imagine the shock
you'd have had, like just turning up there?
Let's not forget he was alongside no slap driver David
Leslie, who, you know, Nissan Superstar won races for Nissan.
Yeah, extremely quick driver. Yeah, done zillions of laps
around every circuit that that Idos had to go and face and and
and he's and again, even more leagues and to be even more
impressed with what he did, who obviously is brilliant.
Next up we have one from Bradley Tolton who says that night
racing was a terrible idea. Russ, what what were you?
What was your outlook on the night races that we hadn't sort
of 99 and 2000, but good events for you.
We Did you attend any of? I didn't, I didn't attend them,
but I do I do remember and I think you probably it added a
different twist, which probably the championship needed a little
bit of a a different slam, a spectacle at nights.
And yeah, yeah, I think, I think seeing the cars bottoming out
and sparks coming out from underneath them, I think we all
like to see a little bit of that, don't we?
So I. Didn't know but the tanium skip
yes. Skip blocks on as well.
They made special headlights and mood lighting inside.
I think there's red timid lights and so that's trying to think.
I remember there was a feature on on Yeah Night Racing.
Yeah. Have you been to Le Mon?
Yeah. No, it's it's I don't know why
they don't bring it back now, but that's that's we we won't.
We'll leave that there. They they they also put the
reflective liveries in the. Side of the.
Car which are great for photography so absolutely yeah
yeah no I I I I personally think I'd love to have gone to 1 I I
work for Colin Stank and vehicle engineering and and they said
that the the night races were were something pretty special.
Yeah, I was at, I was at the 99 one.
Brilliant. Superb.
And seen the brakes still hot. The brakes are in the dark,
Yeah, as well. Yeah, yeah.
And. What you could see, because if
you, if you remember, David Leslie hit the, the Russell
chicane really hard with his front, right, I think it was.
And you could see the smoke billowing out of that along with
the growing, as Adam just said, the glowing red hot breaks.
And yeah, it was just, it was incredible.
The smells, the noises, the the engine sounded just even better
in the the night time. You know, it was just wonderful.
It was like a carnival atmosphere, just a great event.
And and as Russell said. I do think Touring Cars is
missing a trick in not doing. I get that they wouldn't get the
ITV coverage or whatnot. The logistics of it I guess I
don't know, there's other bits to it but for the action and the
the spectacle I said no brainer from me but I've thought the
same about St Races as well. Birmingham.
Oh yes. You know, Birmingham super pre
incredible, but again, I I don't know the I don't know the
insurance and outs of it. So apparently the the big
expense for Snetterton was the the lighting you.
Were talking to which about the Birmingham Super Pre.
I went around, I had to come through Birmingham today and I
went around, you know, the big roundabout at the top and I went
up the hill, round deep. I went around that very
roundabout today and some of the Kerbin is still there.
It's still painted in red and white.
Yeah. On the inside, yeah.
That's pretty. Still, it's still there.
I'll try and it's really, really busy.
It's like the arbitrary I'm from there.
It's. So yeah, I'll try and get a
photo if I've got somebody with me one time to try and get
interest from the curb in that's still on the inside.
Just going back on the TV element and that you were
mentioned, Alex, I I think that's the other thing for his
era. I think actually night racing
was was kind of the win win for the series because, as you say,
you wouldn't get it now because you'd go well, the TV viewer
figures will go because it's all live coverage and this that what
the in the other. But back in the day, as a
grandstand, you weren't going to lose viewers because it was a
night race. You know what?
They weren't going to lose TV viewers because of the fact they
did it on a Saturday night, late at night.
They still got the crowns because the crowns bought into
this carnival test of the atmosphere of it.
So if it's Tory cars, whatever Tory cars did, the fans are
always going to be there. That's how big a sport it was.
It had it had to buy it and it was that win, win again.
That's probably why you wouldn't see it now, because it would be
too much of A risk in this digital TV social age where
impressions and numbers count. But back then it was a win, win,
wasn't it? It was a crucial race in the
title as well, because Aiello had a slipping clutch in round
one in the Sprint early in the evening, and then in round two
his bonnet pin came undone and he had to pit twice.
And then he got involved in some midfield shenanigans with the
likes of Rydell, Rademacher, Bouillon, Plato, Menu ET al, and
Leslie cruised on to a first and a second.
But it was just brilliant. I can't, I can't really put if
you pin me down and say one reason why it was so good, there
isn't the IT was just. What he bought, it's what he
bought like to the kind of atmosphere, the smells, the
noises, the glowing breaks, the the graphics that are all lit up
at night. I think it was it was
everything. But I think that's just one of
the very, you know, the feud decisions that that Gal made
over the years, like having three races on a race weekend,
how it's not going to work out, but it worked the night race, it
worked. All the decisions those those
decisions that Gal made over the years were genius, really.
And it also brought one of my favourite really quotes with.
I might even have to take out a pair of shades.
So Next up we have one from John Barry.
He says that Paul Ratasich was robbed of the BTCC title in
1994. Alex.
So I'll let you start off on this one.
What's your, your opinion of it? Do you think this is along the
political line or a a pace line potentially?
No, he wasn't. Yeah.
Many finished second in the championship.
If if if Alfa and Tarquini weren't there.
Renault stolen and got second on the line in 1994.
Rattle 60 and it's finished third.
It's a bit like Spurs winning the Premier League when
Leicester won, isn't it? Nobody, nobody.
There's a claim there that oh, Spurs would have went.
No, they didn't. Radicich was third.
He was not even second. I and and this is not a slight
on Paul Ford fell off the end of 1994.
Renault strengthened. As I said, they brought in the
arrow over the course of 1994. That championship doesn't lie.
Radicich finished third. He wasn't even the runner up.
So to say he was robbed of a title because I'm assuming of
Alfa Romeo and the Arrow and the diff or whatnot, No, I'm afraid
not. That's probably going to upset
some people. Maybe if you'd had a stronger
teammate. Oh, I, I I wouldn't go that far.
I'm just saying I'm just. Afraid.
If you cut the season in half and that first half of the
season, yeah, Alpha were dominant and Ford were very much
the second best team, but BMW, Renault, Peugeot, they
developed. They.
Did they did They did. Patrick Watts finished behind
the two alphas at both Brands Hatch races and finished on the
podium in on both occasions. So no, I I don't think he was
robbed. He won the World Cup 94 as well.
Yeah. So, yeah, I I don't agree with
that personally. No, But Bradish was quick enough
to win the title. That's not to say he didn't
deserve one. Very, very quick driver.
Very, very lightning quick everywhere.
You know, he burst on the scene in 93 and won six races in, won
that race at Brands Hatch and was consistently up there almost
immediately. A very quick driver.
No, I don't think he was robbed in 94 though.
I don't think he deserved that title.
No, I don't think he was robbed. I think he was robbed of the
title, but I think he was robbed in 9093 and he was robbed by the
slow development of the Ford Mondeo, but I think that's
around it. He had, he had a full season
with the car. If they had turned up with the
well, at least they turned up and Pembrey was the first round
they turned up. That wasn't it.
So if the car had been in the state, or was it Pembrey at the
first round, he'd won the thought.
What? Yeah.
Because I say, I think they would have just run the table in
the second-half of the season, absolutely run away with it
because of the no car in the second-half in that last quarter
of 1993 could match that Monday and especially with him behind
the wheel. I've never thought of it like
that before, but I don't disagree.
OK, so we've come to our final unpopular tenure of the evening
1st, but this one comes from Dave Goddard.
It is. Dave, a contributor at the Yeah
Friend of the Pod. Friend of the pod, he said that
Steve Super and John Cleland should should be censured and
not celebrated for their part in the 1992 title decider.
Which I mean, I guess they were very nice to being censured.
And that that's comes in from a Mr Tim Harvey.
I mean, I mean, Russ, what's, what's your view on that?
Do you think it was one of those incidents where it did add to
the character in the drama series, or was it two drivers
that should have named Bettered behaving quite unprofessionally
and setting a bad example? Yes.
Well, for me, I think, yes, it was a they both give as good as
they got, didn't they, To be honest with you.
Yeah. And and it, it changed the
course of touring cars. It just exploded onto the media,
didn't it? Really.
It it put it, it put British touring cars on the map.
Whether it was for the right reasons, difficult to say.
But from that everyone knows even now, don't they?
As you said, I'm going first, said John Cleland.
You know, it's that that that cemented the British Touring Car
championship, sort of. That was close racing and
sometimes a little bit too close.
But yeah, as a winning at all costs kind of thing really,
wasn't it? Yeah, as Russell alluded to
there with the Cleland saying, obviously we had Steve super on
the podcast last week and he said the amount of people that
come up to him at car club meetings or events he goes to or
anything like that, you know, for example, Brands Hatch with,
with super touring power, the amount of people that come up to
him and go, ah, the man's an animal.
And, and to this day, I think it's I don't think it's the the
incident that celebrated as such because ultimately.
That was because there's been worse crashes than that you.
Know back to some of. The some of the things that have
gone on absolutely in throughout the years.
But I also think if it wasn't for that, that put touring cars
on the map for everything, as Steve said last week on the
podcast, because we talked about it with him and I was, I'm
always a bit wary to talk about 92 with Steve because it's a
tricky 1, isn't it? But there was no F1, there was
no World Rally Championship that weekend, there was no other
major motorsport event. So that incident was on the
front cover of Autosport, it was on the front cover of Motoring
News, it was on the main page of the Teletext motorsport section.
It was everywhere. It was in the papers, in the
sports pages of the of the red tops.
It was everywhere. It made touring cars a household
thing in Britain, and I think that's what's celebrated, not
Super and Cleland banging fight bells out of each other.
Yeah. I think it's because it was a
title decider. Yeah, that's if that had just
been like round five, that's net or wherever it was.
Like it's just another touring car crashed like Rush said.
Like it was far worse than that, you know, But the fact that that
was for a title and they were, they both gave as good as they
got. Yeah, I think it's and.
How these are household names and it like it was just part of
the of the circus of touring cars.
You know, this was part of it, wasn't it?
Because it was the last round of the championship.
That's what I made it all what it was.
I think if, like you said, Steve and Tim and Cleland will all get
asked questions about that race for the rest of their lives and
we're still talking about it now.
But if that would have just been a race throughout the during the
season, you wouldn't be talking about it.
Yeah. And I think the the other thing
is that I think this this TV that I think if you're viewing
it from was their driving up stand.
I mean, Steve was very candid with us last week.
That was that the best Steve sofas ever driven.
No, you know, he, it wasn't what you'd probably expect from him.
And he they were brought up in front of a tribunal for that
reason, you know, when and really people wanted to throw
the book at them for that reason.
Some people did for their part, and just the fact that they both
agreed, so they're not going. To like, yeah, you know, they're
not going to pursue each other for it.
They they what? What can Alan Gowan and they do?
And anybody do like they need? These people in the
championship, Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Right. Alan Gow would have been pushing
for it, secretly knowing like, you know, he'd have been and
publicly going, oh, they're a pair of nutters and I'm going to
bollock them. I'm going to do this any other.
But in reality, I think I would have.
Been rubbing his hands, Yeah of. Course, everyone's talking about
it on the Monday morning, like you just said, every newspaper
that's like, that's increasing Allen's BTCC brand, isn't it?
Yeah, absolutely. I.
Think. I think it's.
Brand values gone through the roof.
The other thing as well is that the sport at the end of the day
is, is entertainment. Do we want to be seeing
dangerous, unsafe actions every week?
No, of course not. But this was, this was clearly a
situation of two drivers just getting at their absolute peak
of competitiveness. You know, John Clene and the Sea
Soaper had never been driving people off the road before that,
and they weren't going to start doing it every week either.
You know, I think you could have said that in 1992.
So then it becomes a thing of all the it's the drama about
it's the entertainment about of, of sport.
Like a bit like my, my rousing speech earlier.
You know that. You know that you need to calm
down. But.
It's, it's an also, I mean, you start with F1 in in 2021 with
Abu Dhabi. Was it from an organisational
point of view, F1's finest moment?
No, I think we can all agree that.
But it's the moment that again, F1 just seemed to explode even
further in popularity again. After that moment, people still
the last. Moment of the championship,
people. Still have the moment because
it's the drama of sport. It's it's what we watch it for.
We watch it for that crescendo. It's why we look, probably look
back at seasons where there are deciders as sometimes the better
ones because as Alex said earlier, if someone winning the
title in July doesn't use that crescendo.
This is last minute stuff, This is last minute.
This is last. This is like the 97th goal of a
football match being 97th minute winner.
That's what this was and that's what Abu Dhabi was with Hamilton
Verstappen. It was out of the seat stuff.
Actually, I think to say they should be cinched as maybe a bit
strong because also I think we all acknowledge neither of them
particularly paint themselves in glory of the driving.
You know, it's not like they're saying, oh, what a great battle.
It's a shame it ended like that. We say what?
The great race, Yeah, probably shouldn't have dread into each
other like that. So I think from that side, it's
probably a bit more balance, isn't it?
And as as you say, Alex, it's we celebrate the impact it then had
on on tour and car racing. All right then, I think that's
about all the chaos we can handle for an episode.
Massive thanks to everyone he sent in their unpopular
opinions. I think we've managed to start
more arguments in one hour here than in one hour at Alton Park
in 1994. Thanks again to Russell for
joining us this evening. It's been great to have you on
and getting your view on some of those unpopular opinions.
Thanks for having me, it's been an absolute privilege.
And if you've got another unpopular opinion that you
didn't send in, keep them coming.
I'm sure we can make a lot of these over time.
It's been a lot of fun discussing them.
Has been so. So definitely keep them coming,
especially if you want to hear more of our takes on them as
well. So you can either drop us a
message on social media or e-mail the show.
I think it's POD at 1990s btcc.com and we might just
feature yours next time and let all of us tear it apart for.
You which we. Enjoy.
So that's it for this one. Thank you all for listening.
Don't forget to subscribe and rate us as Five star on your
podcast app of choice and we'll catch you next time.
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