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Stories from Super Touring. 
Hello and welcome to this week's

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episode of Stories from Super 
Touring. 

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I'm Levi Riley, and today we're 
doing something a little 

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different and a little 
dangerous. 

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Yep, it's unpopular opinions 
time. 

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We asked you lot to send in your
hottest, weirdest and most 

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downright criminal takes about 
the Super Touring era and you 

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did not disappoint. 
We've got listeners claiming 

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Volvo estates for the peak of 
touring car design, that certain

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drivers were overrated and one 
brave soul. 

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He reckons that the 1997 season 
was better than the 1998 season.

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And just to warn you all, we are
naming names. 

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So grab a brew, settle in and 
prepare for some friendly 

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arguments, a few questionable 
opinions, and probably a couple 

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of moments where we wonder if 
we're about to lose half of our 

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listeners. 
Of course, I'm not tackling 

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these spicy takes alone. 
Joining me as always, and my 

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partner's in bad opinions, Adam 
and Alex. 

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Now this week we are not going 
to argue over Nigel Mansell. 

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OK, guys. 
Yeah, I'm not having it. 

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I'm not having it our Nige. 
I think they might well, I don't

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know, I've seen. 
That look in your face, then, 

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was about. 
To help myself, got to say. 

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Something about Madsell at some 
point. 

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We've also got a special guest 
joining the chaos today, Russell

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Bradley. 
Now Russell's done it all. 

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He's raced cars, spanned cars 
and now he's talking about cars.

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Basically, if it's got four 
wheels and a story, Russell's 

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key and Russell mate, welcome to
the madness. 

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Yes, thanks Levi Sir, it's a 
great honour to be with you 

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guys, so look forward to this 
evening's extravaganza. 

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You might not want to come back 
Russ We met obviously through 

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your work at Brands Hatchet 
Super Touring power. 

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I'd love to just chat to you 
about 5 minutes that you you 

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worked on Conrad Tim's car, who 
owns the Kelvin Bert Mondeo and 

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it must be pretty special 
working on some special 

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machinery like that. 
Yeah, it was definitely a a 

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pinch me moment, which basically
came about from a picture that 

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had come that I'd taken, oh, 
back in 95 when I couldn't even 

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drive. 
My mum took me to take a test 

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day and I took a picture of 
Kelvin locking up, going into 

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the chicane and Super Touring 3.
We, I went with me, my nephew 

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and my mother-in-law and was 
walking down the pit lane and 

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Kil can't remember taking the 
car to bits. 

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I think he'd been in the gravel 
and he was putting that together

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and we started talking to his 
wife and, and I think he was, he

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was working on the car on his 
own. 

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I said, but if you ever come 
back, like give me, let, let me 

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know. 
So we exchanged details and that

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and then then I was lucky enough
to go. 

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I got the call in April, I think
it was to say if the offer's 

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still there to come and help 
him, which was, it was 

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absolutely amazing to honestly 
sort of never expected to to be 

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doing that. 
So. 

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Yeah, and you got to work on 
Paul McCarthy's Mazda, the 93 

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Patrick Watts car that he owns 
too. 

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Yes, yeah, that was, I wasn't 
well, one touring car was was 

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special enough to then to then 
to then get a second one to to 

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work on was, yeah, really 
special. 

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Great guys. 
I mean, what a weekend it was. 

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It was, it was always. 
I joined the Toker package 

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package with Colin Stankman back
in 2002 and it was always a 

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regret that I'd never actually 
got into the Super Touring era. 

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But yeah, 30 odd years later 
I've done it. 

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I've been on the grid with a 
touring car. 

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So yeah, so it was, it was a 
very special, it's been a 

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special weekend and and lots of 
other stuff has come from it 

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since then. 
I mean, obviously this and I did

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the Silverstone Festival with 
Scott O'Donnell and Alan Dipney 

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with their Group A Rover and 
Skiera. 

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So yeah. 
So it's from one thing. 

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I owe a lot to comrade and Paul 
for for giving the opportunities

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that they did. 
So trust me with their cars. 

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So yeah. 
So yeah. 

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Well then, guys, let's get into 
these unpopular opinion, shall 

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we? 
And we'll start off with one 

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from Wes Shepherd, who said 1994
was the best season. 

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Although the championship fight 
wasn't a classic, we had 10 

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manufacturers, a decent 
privateer filled peak non aero 

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cars, the glorious 155, the 
Volvo estate and some great 

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racing. 
Al, should we start with you on 

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that one? 
Yeah, I mean 1994 was a great 

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season as as Wes says there 10 
manufacturer teams both running 

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two car entries, although Mazda 
dropped out just before halfway 

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of the season. 
You had a very good privateer 

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field. 
Not quite. 

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I don't think it was the 
strongest. 

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I've always thought the 
strongest would have was 97, but

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they were the peak non aero 
cars. 

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Alpha obviously stretched that a
little bit with their their 

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Silverstone and their bits in 
the boots, the Volver State and 

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iconic car, although not as fast
as people seem to remember and 

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great racing. 
Yeah, perfect. 

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Great racing, however. 
Crowds as well. 

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Yeah, crowds for Crows. 
Crows in 94. 

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Yeah, the racing was great. 
It was a fantastic year, a 

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stellar year for the 
championship. 

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The one thing that does bring it
down slightly is the fact that 

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Alpha dominated. 
Tarquini had won the title 

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relatively early, not as early 
as he possibly should have done 

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considering his start to the 
season. 

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Alfred didn't win many races 
after the half point year 

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without half point of the year 
when BMW and Renault brought in 

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their wings their own aero 
editions. 

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And obviously the controversy 
wasn't great. 

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Alpha storming off home at Alton
Park, Ford and Vauxhall in 

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particular being particularly 
vociferous over the aero aids. 

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And you know, yeah, it was a 
great year. 

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Not for me the strongest or the 
best year of Super Touring, but 

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it's definitely up there. 
It's not one I totally disagree 

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with. 
I just that little bit saying 

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it's the best, not quite for me,
but certainly up there. 

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Yeah. 
I mean, I think from my end, I'd

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I'd agree with you though, Alex.
I think it's one of those where 

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perhaps if you are interested in
just a pure racing element, 

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there was a lot of good racing 
that year even further down the 

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field. 
So wherever you know, 

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necessarily there were races 
where perhaps Tarquini and the 

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Alphas were ahead, but there was
a lot of good racing behind 

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amongst a really deep 
manufacturer field as well as 

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said there. 
So I think from that 

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perspective, if that's your 
thing of just seeing some great 

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race in action, I could maybe 
see the argument there because I

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think for me 98 is a better 
season. 

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But then for me, I think I'm 
also kind of interested in the 

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drama and the pettiness and the 
the spectacle of it, which we 

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did get with that title fight. 
And then Donnington and Brands 

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and, you know, Nadel and Mansell
come into blows and Reed and 

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Rydell come into blows in the 
pit lane and things like that, 

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which you know, you don't quite 
get in 94, but maybe a hand. 

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A better debt for racing perhaps
it's it's probably a fair 

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argument potentially there. 
I think you've got a point 

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there. 
The depth of the field, that 

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field in 94 was wild. 
There was about 2829 super tours

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on on which which you didn't get
later on in the in the in the 

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year. 
I think, I think that's why it's

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spoken about as well as it is. 
I think like the Volvo 2025 and 

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we're still talking about the 
Volvo estate. 

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And it'll always be the case as 
long as we we're still alive. 

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There's people that have that 
lived through that era. 

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You know, my kids won't have a 
clue what we're talking about, 

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you know, in a few years to 
come, but we're still talking 

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about it now. 
And I think that's why that 

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massive contingency of 
manufacturers was like huge, 

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like such a big deal. 
You have to, you know, cash your

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minds about that far. 
It was such a big deal and you 

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have all of these international 
drivers and, you know, 

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manufacturers from different 
countries coming in and it was 

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all, it was such a massive hike.
But I think that's why 1964 is 

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spoken about from where it's 
there, particularly about, you 

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know, you mentioned 145, the 
Volvo, you know, and the, the 

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amount of manufacturers because 
it, it was a, a real strong 

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field, wasn't it? 
And you never knew what you were

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going to get. 
That's what I loved about 

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touring cars. 
You never knew what you were 

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going to get, what drama was 
going to unfold at any point. 

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But you know, there's so many 
years to pick from. 

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But like, I agree with Levi in 
98, but then you've got the 

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reasons to to talk about 94. 
So I think, you know, And that's

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what makes that era so bloody 
good. 

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Russ, what what are your 
memories of of 94 is a season 1 

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you look back on fondly? 
Do you think it's it's the best 

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of the best or or perhaps that 
level? 

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Yeah, it probably wasn't. 
I think there wasn't as many. 

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I mean, I don't know, see Ford 
Evolver at the folder. 

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Alfa Romeo were battling quite 
hard initially at the beginning 

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of the season. 
They really, I mean, I think 

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Ford kind of thought they had it
in the bag from their efforts 

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the previous year. 
And then Alfa's kind of pulled 

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the, pulled the pants down a 
bit, didn't they really? 

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And they were. 
But yeah, I think definitely the

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Volvo, there was some iconic 
cars in that in that race in in 

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that year. 
But I don't think necessarily it

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had the the big sort of 
crescendo like 92 maybe. 

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And obviously right there when 
Reed's kind of there wasn't much

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of that kind of the action off 
and on the on the track, if you 

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know what I mean. 
It was quite other than the 

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initial bit with Simonian 
Reddish each I think. 

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Other than that, it must be 
pretty. 

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Alan Hunt, I suppose is is you 
could say Harvey and menu 

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because I think they had a bit 
of a pop at each other a few 

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times, didn't they on track? 
Yeah, Yeah, they did. 

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Yeah, yeah, probably. 
Yeah. 

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It's a good season, but it's 
not, it's not the best, I would 

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have said. 
I think Ford's role, as she 

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says, is probably the big factor
in that as well, because they 

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they probably in terms of pace 
were the challenges to Alpha. 

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But that early part of the year,
they really fell over their own 

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tail quite a bit, didn't they? 
You know, you had a point in in 

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the early part of the year where
but our queen had twice the 

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points of the man in second, but
the man in second was actually 

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John Clinton. 
It wasn't wasn't a Ford driver. 

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So that probably think, I think 
that if Ford had taken advantage

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of their opportunities, perhaps 
you'd have seen a closer battle 

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from the start, which might have
made things a bit more 

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interesting come, you know, the 
end of the summer into the 

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autumn. 
I I have possibly big unpopular 

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opinion about the Ford team that
year in the if they'd had how to

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word this without upsetting 
people. 

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I think I know what you're going
to say. 

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If they'd have had a different 
driver in the second car. 

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As much as I love Dandy Rose, 
absolute legend of the sport, a 

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huge name, wonderful engineer, 
you know, won those World Cups 

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with the Mondeo, engineering 
them, built and designed those 

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Mondeo's beautifully. 
I just think 94 was a year too 

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much for Rouse and the style of 
racing was going away from what 

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Rouse was. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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And that's no slight on Rouse. 
And I'm, I'm trying to tread 

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carefully here not to upset any 
Rose fans listening, but I think

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the the touring car championship
was moving away from the likes 

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of Rouse. 
And I think if Ford had had 

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someone different in that car, 
it might have been different. 

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I don't know. 
It might not have been. 

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I just thought that Rouse was 
probably not quite the right guy

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for the second seat in 94 it. 
Was super I know we spoke about 

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him before and like I said, he's
an absolute legend when it comes

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when you you know, you just 
they're just aligned him and 

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BTCC just those two words. 
They are. 

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And I remember growing up as as 
a kid when I was younger and you

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know, rouse in the RS5 hundreds 
and and you know, certainly it 

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was just a dominant force, 
wasn't he? 

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But you're right, and we've 
spoke about this before that the

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the driving changed, the cars 
changed, but I think just the 

224
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,360
the fierceness changed a bit as 
well. 

225
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,560
And I don't think that he's one 
of these guys that will leave 

226
00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:15,880
from the front, missed a 
consistency come back with a car

227
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,560
absolutely gleaming like it went
out the garage touring cars 

228
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:22,920
changed, you know, it changed 
and you would, you know, if you 

229
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,080
came back with no mirrors on it,
That was pretty normal Back 

230
00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:27,680
panels. 
That was pretty normal bump 

231
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:29,160
ranging off. 
That was pretty normal. 

232
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:34,400
But to me, I don't I never saw 
Andy as that that guy that would

233
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,560
want to be involved in that way.
No, that's if you know what I 

234
00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:40,320
mean. 
Like he wasn't the one that 

235
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,600
would he wasn't the one that 
would get his elbows out and not

236
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,680
like wouldn't give a shit like 
most of the others. 

237
00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:46,920
But it's almost like looking 
looking at it. 

238
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,120
You have to be ruthless to get 
in amongst it. 

239
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,320
So otherwise you'd just get 
mugged every time. 

240
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,360
You know, you've got to be the 
one getting your elbows out 

241
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,880
otherwise you'd end up being, 
you know, losing 5 places in the

242
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,280
first corner or you know, it's 
very, very similar to when I was

243
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,080
doing it. 
But I think it was a lot rougher

244
00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:04,920
and tougher then through that 
era. 

245
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,600
And I think because you've got 
all these superstars in there 

246
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,640
getting paid, shed loads of 
money, the massive pressures 

247
00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,160
they've got, and it was a 
spectacle, wasn't it? 

248
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,800
Well, none of them. 
None of them were paying the 

249
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,440
bills, were they? 
No, they came back. 

250
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,800
They came back with the front 
end, all damage. 

251
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,280
They weren't having to fork out 
for the repo replacements. 

252
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:23,720
Yeah, exactly. 
Tell me that I've got an 

253
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,600
unlimited budget and I've 
probably done the same. 

254
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,240
Yeah, exactly. 
And, and and the fact that I was

255
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,280
getting paid to do it. 
Like when isn't it? 

256
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,120
It's your ideal job. 
Do what you've got to do to win.

257
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,360
You're still going to get a 
paycheck and you haven't got to 

258
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,960
get a proper job. 
You know, that's that's your 

259
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,320
ideal position to be. 
But yeah, I didn't think that 

260
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,680
particular era suited Andy, 
which I know we've spoke about 

261
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,640
before because he's super 
consistent, super smooth and but

262
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,600
yeah, absolute legend. 
Next we have one from Chris 

263
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,040
Phillips, who wrote in to say 
that Rouse should have had the 

264
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:57,200
chance to continue with the 
Nissan in 1997 for the full 

265
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:02,480
works effort, adding that RML 
didn't pull up trees in 1997. 

266
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:12,360
Back on the subjects of Ross. 
Interesting that I thought 

267
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,840
Nissan, I thought RML did great 
with the car the first year 

268
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:21,520
really got some podiums and they
were developing a whole new car 

269
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:27,600
up against Renault. 
Yeah, Williams, Renault, who had

270
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,040
had the engineer who'd been 
engineering the Laguna for three

271
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,240
years at that point and were 
dominant. 

272
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,920
You know, you look at Volvo, 
they had a similar year with the

273
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,600
S40, their brand new car. 
You know, Ricard did win once 

274
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:46,680
Nissan, they did, they were they
they didn't get a race victory, 

275
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,000
but they were up there, 
especially really in qualifying,

276
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,720
I think. 
And then obviously look at what 

277
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,960
RML went on to do in 99 in in 98
and 99. 

278
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,800
You know, that late season 
charge for Reed in 98 and that 

279
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,480
Aiello well clean sweep in 99. 
You know that car, the, the, the

280
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,520
Nissan was a dominant car from 
the second-half of 98. 

281
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,400
So RML did do well with the 
Nissan. 

282
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,920
I don't know what Rouse would 
have done with it. 

283
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:24,520
None of us can know that. 
But when you look back at the 

284
00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:30,640
the Nissan record for 9397 to 99
with RMLI, don't think there's 

285
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,480
going to be many detractors. 
No, no. 

286
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:36,600
Yeah, I think there's, I saw 
there's two things to look at. 

287
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,640
There's we don't know what would
have happened if Francis could 

288
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:43,360
continued with it, but RML I 
think did an absolute mega job. 

289
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,840
And I think like you said, 
looking at second-half in 98 

290
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,840
onwards, 97 was just a learning 
year for them, wasn't it, to 

291
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:54,240
develop it and they needed. 
To be and you always need a 

292
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,080
learning, a learning year with a
brand new car when you're in 

293
00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,680
such an ultra competitive 
championship like the BTCC was. 

294
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:02,440
Russ, what about, what about 
you? 

295
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,800
Do you think that was a about 97
year quite, quite a good one 

296
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:10,240
from RML to forgive me for what 
they've dealt with them that are

297
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,200
in different hands? 
Well, you've only really got to 

298
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,079
look at what they have have 
rasted with the car and the 

299
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,760
Nissan in 96 really to kind of 
yeah, it wasn't it wasn't the 

300
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,200
great. 
I don't know if it was the car 

301
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:26,240
itself, but I think I think RML 
were definitely on sadly on 

302
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:31,520
Rouse was kind of no disrespect,
but I think that RML was 

303
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,000
technical. 
They were, they were definitely 

304
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,400
a few strides ahead. 
I would say in, in, well, you've

305
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,880
only got to see what they did 
when they sort of took Dave 

306
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,600
Cooks. 
They come out with a, you know, 

307
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,280
it goes back to the Cavalier. 
They they were on a, they 

308
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,080
weren't a works team, were they?
And they obviously had the right

309
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:54,840
personnel to sort of develop the
Cavalier. 

310
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,200
And then obviously, you know, 
they moved and they were, they 

311
00:17:58,200 --> 00:17:59,880
would definitely move them in 
the right direction. 

312
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:01,720
Weren't they really? 
Was the way they were developed 

313
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,320
in cut in the direction of 
developing cars? 

314
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,360
So yeah. 
Oh, that's sorry. 

315
00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:11,200
It's a rash, but I think every 
dog has its day sometimes. 

316
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:16,040
Nissan's in, I mean the Nissan's
in 96 was the strange cars that 

317
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,280
they were a year old at one 
point that they did get 

318
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,320
eventually they did get some 96 
Trasties, but a lot, a lot of 

319
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,760
the year was spent. 
They were uncompetitive cars. 

320
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:30,520
You know, were the drivers going
to be as competitive as the 

321
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:31,720
other works cars? 
Drivers? 

322
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,760
Of course, they were semi works.
They weren't independent. 

323
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,000
They weren't works teams. 
They were, they weren't a works 

324
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,800
effort. 
But you know, Gary Ailes, good 

325
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,720
peddler. 
Owen McCauley. 

326
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,480
I don't know enough about Owen 
McCauley to say whether it was 

327
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,640
the car or the driver. 
I who who knows? 

328
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,760
Those cars weren't great, but 
there there was nothing there 

329
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,360
that made me think, oh, they 
should have had the the the car 

330
00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:03,720
for 97 too. 
Next up, we have one from Jake 

331
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,840
Callahan. 
He says that he preferred 

332
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:10,280
Charlie Cox's commentary with 
John Watson over that of Murray 

333
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,280
Walker now. 
And now this is a hard 1. 

334
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,720
I think it's a tough one to look
at, but I think it's not as 

335
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,880
controversial as perhaps. 
I'd like. 

336
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,840
Here on the surface. 
These days, I'd like to clarify.

337
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,920
Jake is a real person. 
We've met him. 

338
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:28,760
It's not me under a pseudonym, 
OK? 

339
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,320
Jake is real and it's not me. 
I promise. 

340
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,880
We all love a Murray ISM though.
Yeah, don't we? 

341
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,880
We do. 
So I think, I think for me. 

342
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,320
That's the that's the nostalgia 
thing, is the Yeah. 

343
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,280
So that's why you sing. 
Oh, well, we do see Murray here.

344
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,840
Like this is Murray. 
That's like Alex dissing Mansell

345
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:53,280
as soon as you mentioned he's 
all, you know, it's, you know, 

346
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,200
it's yeah, I don't know. 
That's that. 

347
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:57,920
I get it. 
I think the commentary was 

348
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,960
great, absolutely great. 
But like you said, Marie was 

349
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:07,080
Marie was so unique. 
Murray brought touring cars to a

350
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,440
lot of people because they would
have heard his commentary. 

351
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,720
Yeah, they know who he was. 
Yeah, exactly if. 

352
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,040
Murray was commentating on it 
then it was worth listening to. 

353
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:21,120
He brought a he brought a level 
of respect to the championship 

354
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:25,040
that that people maybe you know,
they didn't realise what it was 

355
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:26,440
at 1st. 
And now you say Murray's 

356
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:32,400
commentating this watch. 
You know, I agree with Jake. 

357
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,400
For me, Charlie Cox and John 
Watson were better. 

358
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,600
They were more suited to the, 
the, the hustle and bustle, the 

359
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,000
style of racing. 
I like the fact that there were 

360
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,240
two of them. 
I like the fact that Charlie Cox

361
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,760
was the, the lead commentator 
with a bit of patter funny 

362
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,160
suited the, the, the, the style 
of racing. 

363
00:20:54,480 --> 00:21:01,520
And I did enjoy what is the 
admonishment of drivers and you 

364
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,880
know, it wasn't towing cars. 
But one of my favourite ones is 

365
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:11,120
have you not read your rule book
at Ricardo Reset when he came 

366
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:14,920
around the corner in an FP 
session in at the Nurburgring, I

367
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,600
think it was in 1986 on 
Eurosport and he went into an 

368
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,400
absolute tirade. 
No, look at that Ricardo. 

369
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,760
Reset, you fool. 
Do you not use your eyesight? 

370
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,560
Do you not realise that there 
are waved yellow flags around 

371
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,400
the circuit? 
Have you not read your rule book

372
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,000
that says when there's a wave 
yellow flag there's a hazard on 

373
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,400
the circuit? 
What? 

374
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,240
He similarly did it with Jason 
Plato, didn't he? 

375
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:44,760
In 2000, he called Tim Harvey 
rude boy, poor. 

376
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,120
We're not going, we're not 
talking super touring at this 

377
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:51,760
one, but Phil Bennett received 
an absolute role again of what 

378
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,320
he on several occasions during 
2001. 

379
00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:00,920
I like the fact that what he 
said what he thought and I like 

380
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,120
that he was not backwards in 
coming forwards with an opinion.

381
00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:07,400
If he thought something was bad 
he said it straight and didn't 

382
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:08,120
care. 
It was like. 

383
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,920
No Philtre, wasn't it? 
But and as you say, Adam, that 

384
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,800
feels like you're dissing on 
Murray Murray Broad 

385
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,720
championship. 
There are still people, you 

386
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,520
know, John Cleland said to us a 
few weeks ago on the episode 

387
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,920
that's due to come out next week
actually, that we've got with 

388
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:32,600
John that the amount of people 
that still come up to him to 

389
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,400
this day and stick their middle 
finger up. 

390
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,120
So Don Trellan is sandwiched 
between the two BMWs. 

391
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,400
I'm going for first, says Don. 
Trellan, you know that was very 

392
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,120
all over, wasn't it? 
That you know that that was the 

393
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:49,680
car upside down is a Toyota 
brilliant genius. 

394
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:51,240
But that's what matters. 
Unique. 

395
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,080
Like I wouldn't not watch it 
because he was commentating. 

396
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:55,120
I would not watch it for the 
others. 

397
00:22:55,160 --> 00:23:00,120
I don't think that they all did 
US stupendous job at like do 

398
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:03,520
any, any, you know, it's just, 
yeah, it's Murray. 

399
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,880
You know, if he, if he was 
commentated on it, no matter 

400
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,800
what it was, it was horse 
racing, you'd watch it because 

401
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,120
it was Murray. 
It's that, it's that classic 

402
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:15,040
clip, isn't it? 
I don't know if it's from Woven 

403
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,480
or Parkinson or or whatever it 
is. 

404
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,480
Yeah, I know the one you're 
about. 

405
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,560
Is it Clarkson? 
When he had his trash. 

406
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:26,120
Treated on when he's commentated
on snooker and he's coming to 

407
00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:28,720
exactly the same as Murray 
Walker and here we are. 

408
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,840
That's Ronnie O'Sullivan and 
this man is absolutely 

409
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,560
sensational. 
He's using the special high grip

410
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,560
chalk on his queue and the queue
itself is a very high tech piece

411
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:39,880
of equipment. 
Now watch him. 

412
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,880
Which ball is he going to hit? 
He's going to hit the white ball

413
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,280
and he's going to hit straight 
on the yellow ball and back goes

414
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,360
the queue and slam. 
He's missed it. 

415
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,520
He's missed it. 
Fantastic. 

416
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,960
I mean, I think a lot of it also
is there was a very distinct 

417
00:23:54,960 --> 00:24:00,040
change in the coverage when it 
went from Murray to to Charlie 

418
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,640
and and Mossy, didn't it? 
There was a, you know, when it 

419
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,960
was Murray, it was this he 
wanted to the on his own, the, 

420
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,760
you know, the the what, 20 to 25
minute packages? 

421
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,640
And then, you know, it did get 
more and more and I think he 

422
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,560
never really agreed with that or
the live races and, and things 

423
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,600
like that. 
He had a certain production 

424
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,760
value that he adhered to, didn't
he? 

425
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,640
And then when I think BBC wanted
to take it another way once 

426
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,280
they'd lost Formula One and 
wanted really the touring cars 

427
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,640
to be the premier for with 
Motorsville on there. 

428
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,800
They wanted it to be more like 
what modern sports broadcasting 

429
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,960
was becoming by the late 90s, 
which was, you know, the 

430
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,720
influence of Sky and you know, 
the analysis and the pre and 

431
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,880
post race and the colour 
commentator much more existing 

432
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,160
and, and things like that. 
So, you know, at that point 

433
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,560
that's obviously where it kind 
of fitted really well, didn't 

434
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,400
it? 
Then Murray committed to ITV and

435
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,880
F1 more and we we got Charlie 
and Wasi. 

436
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,760
And I think probably then you 
get 2 very different products 

437
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,240
from both of those that feel 
very like, very much like their 

438
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,760
products as well to those 
commentators, which, you know, I

439
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,360
think it's partly because that's
what they wanted to make, but 

440
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:21,760
also because of the how the BBC 
wanted to make it at those 

441
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,280
different points. 
Yeah, well, yeah, BBC lost F1 at

442
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,280
the end of 96 to ITV 
immediately. 

443
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,080
They put BTCC from 30 minutes to
60 minutes. 

444
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,520
Yeah. 
And they wanted three live race 

445
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:42,120
meetings a year. 
Murray struggled to commit to 

446
00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:47,040
that, did it for the first year,
but I think he he missed 2 

447
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,240
meetings, one at Donnington and 
one at thrust in the Barry 

448
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,640
Nutley commented, commentated on
instead. 

449
00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:00,040
And then I think Murray 
realised, look, I can't do both.

450
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,560
And obviously F1 was his bread 
and butter wasn't it? 

451
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:09,600
You know, and also, as you said 
there Levi, we've spoken to 

452
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,880
Steve Ryder and and and talked 
about the live stuff in our 

453
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,880
brands 97 episode where Murray 
wholeheartedly disagreed with 

454
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,800
the Championship going live it. 
Didn't want to do. 

455
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,840
No. 
So it's, it's an interesting 1. 

456
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,280
The whole politics behind it is 
even more interesting. 

457
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:37,600
But for me, for the for the, for
the production, yeah, I thought 

458
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:42,040
the the, the Cox and Watson 
stuff was I preferred it. 

459
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,600
I did prefer it. 
And that's no slight on Murray, 

460
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,920
who was also brilliant. 
Next up we have one from Luke 

461
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:54,160
Koch, who says Read never 
deserved a title and always 

462
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:59,440
bottled it under fresher. 
Now this is, I think this is 

463
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,240
controversial not because if 
necessary the content, but 

464
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:08,320
perhaps how direct it is with 
how it's delivered, perhaps 

465
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,960
Russ, I mean Anthony as we know 
got very close on 2 occasions, 

466
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,760
1998 and 2000. 
I'm guessing busted. 

467
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,360
That under pressure refers to 
the fact that Anthony had two 

468
00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:27,160
chances in the last race of 
meeting of the season and lost 

469
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,440
it in his, you know, with 
various escapades, some of his 

470
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:35,480
faults, some is not what what 
did you make of his his 

471
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:41,880
championship challenges? 
98 was definitely a not not his 

472
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:48,240
crown and glory was it was it? 
But yeah, I suppose we've the 

473
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,040
final one of the season, 
obviously been a night race as 

474
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,040
well as not. 
I'm trying to I'm trying 

475
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,480
struggling to remember that the 
actual the final race because I 

476
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,280
can remember something happened,
didn't didn't say who when. 

477
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,400
So in 98. 
Didn't mean you go out in the 

478
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,920
first part. 
Yeah, so in 2000, many went out 

479
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:11,960
in race one, but then Reed got 
caught up with, oh, Tarquini. 

480
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:13,440
Right. 
And then? 

481
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:21,240
And then in race 2, Reedy was 
just behind Alan and wasn't it 

482
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,160
was in his hands, but he tangled
with Rademacher and was then 

483
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,000
ended up in the gravel. 
Right. 

484
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,600
Yeah, well, I think Peter's 
right in terms of not be there, 

485
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,400
Luke, sorry, in terms of the the
pressure side of it. 

486
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,760
I think when he did come to the 
crunch, he wasn't, he was 

487
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,920
involved in something he 
shouldn't have been involved in.

488
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,600
Not like a menu that I got the 
job done, finds a way of getting

489
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,120
the job done. 
You know, it was to consistency 

490
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,720
I think and it was too 
inconsistent yes to to fully, 

491
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,680
you know, get there at the end. 
I agree in that year he had the 

492
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:05,080
quickest car and for some some 
reason he just saw red and if 

493
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,000
you remember going into Abby he 
just absolutely harpoons 

494
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,640
Thompson and. 
Getting ahead of Anthony Reed is

495
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,720
what James Thompson was trying 
to do side by side through 

496
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,880
Maggots and Becketts. 
James Thompson is absolutely 

497
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,560
nailing Anthony Reid. 
They're heading down to the 

498
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,160
Island chicane. 
They can't get through there. 

499
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,360
Two by two and he's back in 
front of him. 

500
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,800
Amazing stuff. 
Reid was challenging right now. 

501
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:27,560
Thompson's now back in front of 
him. 

502
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,840
He shot the fox. 
A strong pass by James Thompson.

503
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,560
He took the initiative. 
He forced Anthony Reid to stay 

504
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,120
out. 
No, Reid don't onions and bang 

505
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,360
into the back of the Honda. 
And that was simply Mission 

506
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,320
Impossible by the championship 
contender, Anthony Reid. 

507
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,160
And just ruins both their races 
and you're just thinking why are

508
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,560
you doing that? 
Well, yeah, that's it. 

509
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:49,480
Like what? 
the Champions? 

510
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,120
Yeah. 
Like he said, he sees red 

511
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,120
almost. 
You look at the big picture, if 

512
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,000
you can't win it, finish second,
pick up points, you know, and 

513
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,920
have that. 
I think he was very much all or 

514
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,120
nothing, but almost forgot that 
he was in the championship. 

515
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,000
Well, he came across almost like
he forgot he was in the 

516
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,960
championship battle. 
Like he said, kind of harpooned 

517
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,240
somebody. 
I was only going to end up one 

518
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,840
way when he hit someone that 
hard and you know, things like 

519
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,320
that, little moments like that, 
you're punishing yourself 

520
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,720
throughout the season. 
Tomo put a brilliant move of him

521
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,200
going through maggots and 
Beckett's. 

522
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,600
If you remember there was, they 
came round to the, there was an 

523
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,000
island chicane. 
There was a chicane. 

524
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,080
There wasn't gain, wasn't there?
And Tomo put it and it was a 

525
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,120
brilliant move, absolutely 
brilliant move. 

526
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,360
But at that, at that point in 
time, Tomo had the quicker car 

527
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,400
because if you remember, he 
chased down even after that 

528
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,840
incident, he came back, chased 
down Ryedale and took the lead. 

529
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,160
Was on one that. 
Weekend was on one that weekend.

530
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,880
James actually said it was one 
of his best weekends. 

531
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:49,280
It was his favourite race if you
remember, so really should have 

532
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,640
seen that. 
OK, that's not my battle but he 

533
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,040
can go and catch Ricard and then
I can latch on the back of him 

534
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,840
and get Ricard. 
He should have been thinking 

535
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,880
long term but for some reason he
saw red. 

536
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,600
Tom had passed him in this with 
this great manoeuvre and it 

537
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:12,560
wasn't even a close 5050 
possible incident. 

538
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:18,520
He absolutely slammed into the 
flank of of of the Honda and and

539
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,320
just ruined his chances and I 
will never understand now until 

540
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,560
this day. 
We've 2000, we've discussed many

541
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,640
times on here about that year 
was the year of the dropped 

542
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,720
points system and in terms of 
overall points, Anthony would 

543
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,040
have won the title. 
One thing like I've realised, 

544
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,640
another actually discussed on 
here is, is there an argument, 

545
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:48,120
especially with Alan being quite
calculated at times, Do you 

546
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,680
think there's an argument to say
that at the end of the day, all 

547
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,680
of them knew the rules at the 
start of the season, knew there 

548
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,720
was going to be dropped scores 
and that was the regulations of 

549
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,520
the year and, and Alan played 
best to that and Anthony didn't.

550
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,200
Do you think there's an argument
in that there? 

551
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,960
And and perhaps he should have 
been more aggressive in that 

552
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,640
race, well knowing that he had 
no results to give. 

553
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:17,520
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I suppose, 
you know, if you've got a couple

554
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,120
of drop scores in your pocket, 
you could. 

555
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,880
Yeah. 
I, I don't know. 

556
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,520
I don't know is the honest 
answer. 

557
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:30,440
But it was a total opposite in 
his 98 where he was blisteringly

558
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,880
quick and dominating, really was
just there he picked. 

559
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,360
Don't get me wrong, he won 
races, but he was there picking 

560
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,400
up the solid point 2nd, 3rd 
every time, which is what he 

561
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,680
should have done in 98. 
You see where it is? 

562
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,000
It's it's funny, isn't it? 
I think it's hard to say he 

563
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,960
bottled it. 
I don't know, maybe I mean it's 

564
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:57,000
not it's a bit dismissive of of,
of the man's talents, if you get

565
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,280
me. 
I know it's the whole footballer

566
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,560
fan type thing to sort of say, 
oh, he's bowled it and all this.

567
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,200
Did he deserve a title? 
You could argue 2000. 

568
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,640
I don't think he deserved 98 
because Ricard just did a better

569
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:21,160
job all year. 
Next up we have one from Peter 

570
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,680
Marshall. 
And Peter, I think you've been, 

571
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,120
I think you've been quite cheeky
here with how you murdered this 

572
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,720
Craig bear. 
That's what it's called. 

573
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,320
Greg Baird would have won it 
Donnington in 1998. 

574
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,520
Has he not had to step aside for
a celebrity? 

575
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:48,920
It's also not me. 
Again, I promise it's not me. 

576
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,040
I mean, I will, I will cross 
over to the, the resident 

577
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,840
stories from Super Touring Nigel
Mansell fan club representative 

578
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,160
Adam Jones because I, I, I'm 
going to infer that the 

579
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,560
celebrity is Nigel. 
What do you make of that? 

580
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:08,719
That's. 
Right, folks, he was a 

581
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,840
celebrity. 
What I mean, what do you make 

582
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:17,239
because Nigel, you know, gave it
a a cracking shot at it, didn't 

583
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:18,920
he? 
And you know, obviously that was

584
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,679
the later in the race faded a 
little bit obviously with, you 

585
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:26,120
know, going wide a couple of 
times and all of that. 

586
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:29,480
Do you think in that's, I guess 
probably the question or do you 

587
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,199
think in that situation someone 
like Craig Bad perhaps would 

588
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:35,639
have taken the opportunity 
better or do you think Nigel 

589
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,199
made that opportunity exist in 
the first place? 

590
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,880
There's two ways of looking, I 
think acknowledge that at the 

591
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,040
race that he did and you know 
the crowds loved it and it was a

592
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,560
great entertainment. 
Man saw F1 coming into the 

593
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,520
touring cars. 
That's one story itself. 

594
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,480
But to say that Craig would have
won the race, that's not me say 

595
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,320
well, if four of the right 
remaining 4 numbers that I 

596
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,320
didn't get in the lottery that 
came in there, I'll have been 

597
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,200
multi millionaire right now. 
So we can all say that if this 

598
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,360
sort of happened then that then 
you know this would have been 

599
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,040
the outcome. 
No one's got the crystal ball to

600
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,240
know that that would have been. 
I mean, I don't know. 

601
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:14,000
Do you think Craig would have 
won the championship if Nigel 

602
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,360
Lander took his seat? 
That's how he won the race. 

603
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,360
Not if Nigel under took his 
seat. 

604
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:24,200
Alex, you're shaking your head. 
It's, it's a, it's a reach, 

605
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:24,920
isn't it? 
No. 

606
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:26,920
I think it's a reach. 
Yeah. 

607
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,200
Well, you know, Peter's clearly 
a Craig Bad fan, but always he's

608
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,320
just an anti Mantle fan. 
You sure this isn't you? 

609
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:34,840
Are you? 
Are you? 

610
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:43,120
I've got all these questions. 
Bedo struggled in the Ford, 

611
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,520
didn't he? 
I mean, the Ford is a 

612
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,840
competitive car. 
The Ford was a competitive car. 

613
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,520
He led it knock hill when he 
started on inters, when everyone

614
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:59,320
else started on slicks, went off
when the rain became too hard 

615
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,480
for interview. 
He didn't. 

616
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,440
He wasn't when Will won at 
Silverstone, it wasn't like 

617
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,160
Craig was right behind him or, 
you know, runner up or in the 

618
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,880
top five. 
So there's nothing to say that 

619
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,240
Beard would have won that race. 
I don't. 

620
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,520
I don't think Craig Beard would 
have done what Nigel Mansell did

621
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,800
in that race. 
Well done, well done. 

622
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,920
So you're coming around to the 
Nigel myself. 

623
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,800
Send you an invitation to the 
Nigel Mansell Fan Club if that 

624
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,800
is in the post. 
Yeah, I don't know. 

625
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,800
I, I think that's what it boils 
down to. 

626
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:40,280
If, if do people think Craig 
Baird could have done what 

627
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,040
Mansell did? 
And I I don't think so, no. 

628
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:45,960
But, but I think any, any race 
throughout the season would it 

629
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,080
would be likely to have won a 
race not just there, but would 

630
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,840
you put Craig up there to go? 
He's going to win a race or two 

631
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,880
or three this season like he was
never in a position to, really. 

632
00:36:55,600 --> 00:37:00,560
No, he was given, he was from, 
from from from his side of it, 

633
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,760
having spoken to him about his 
year at at Ford. 

634
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:10,080
He was given a pretty bum deal. 
Never tested the 98 car before 

635
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,400
the start of the season, then 
suddenly W Surrey and Ford go 

636
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,520
right here's your 98 car, it's 
qualifying for Thurston, Off you

637
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,200
go. 
He'd won. 

638
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,280
Well, he'd been disqualified 
from the victory at Bathurst 

639
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,720
over driver hours. 
He clearly a talented Super 

640
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:33,320
Touring driver, but that Ford, 
That Ford of the dog. 

641
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:34,960
Yeah, he never showed that he 
was. 

642
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,360
What I'm saying is that I'm not 
distributed as a driver, 

643
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,640
absolutely not in terms of 
BTCCI, never saw him as in he's 

644
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:42,760
going to win the next. 
One. 

645
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:43,880
No, no, no. 
You're. 

646
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,440
Right. 
You'd need never be on your top 

647
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,520
five drivers to say he's going 
to win in the next race, would 

648
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,160
he? 
For the car and him, the 

649
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,840
nomination was, it wasn't, Yeah,
it wasn't up there for me. 

650
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,720
It never. 
It never showed itself apart 

651
00:37:56,720 --> 00:38:00,360
from one brief 6th place at 
Snetterton which is the 

652
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:06,120
highlight of the year, so I know
I can't see it, but there we go,

653
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,240
that's what Peter thinks. 
Next up we have one from John 

654
00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:17,400
Davis which says that the BCCC 
went downhill after the 1997 

655
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:22,400
season. 
Now this, this infers, I think 

656
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:23,920
that Levi. 
Wants to answer this. 

657
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:28,720
This one. 
I I think this infers that 1998 

658
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:31,920
isn't good. 
I'm trying to be I'm trying to 

659
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,760
be kind and think what is John 
trying to say here? 

660
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,200
What is his argument? 
And I perhaps think John's 

661
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:43,600
argument is that the budgets and
commercialisation that and 

662
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,800
caused issues by 2000, you know,
I think that they did seem to 

663
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,280
feel like a big jump in the top 
cars really pulled away, I think

664
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,840
a little bit in 98. 
You know, people, you know, the 

665
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,960
Peugeot weren't really anywhere,
you know, and, and pulled out 

666
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:04,240
and, you know, things like that.
ALDI obviously lost the four 

667
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:06,640
wheel drive fully and and fell a
step back. 

668
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,160
So I guess maybe this, you know,
from that perspective, you could

669
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,600
say it went downhill. 
You started to lose teams from 

670
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:17,480
the 1998 seasonable 
manufacturers rather the 

671
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:22,040
independent field, especially in
terms of its depth, I think 

672
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,320
probably got worse after the 97 
season. 

673
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,920
We've already mentioned, you 
know in this episode that 97 had

674
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,680
a very strong independent field 
that I think maybe wasn't true 

675
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,440
in following seasons. 
I, I think that my issue with it

676
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:39,440
is that 98 is I think almost 
unanimously in a top three of 

677
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:45,320
Super Touring seasons, if not 
BCCC seasons, like to say it 

678
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,520
went downhill after 97. 
Even if you didn't like 99 and 

679
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:53,400
2000. 
I I. 1998 is one of the best 

680
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,960
seasons of motorsport and in any
category for me. 

681
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,400
I don't know, Maybe he's maybe 
he's a big Ally menu fan, 

682
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,040
perhaps he drives, perhaps he 
still drives a Renault Laguna to

683
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:03,920
this day. 
Who knows? 

684
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:10,000
Or drink Calibre beer, yes. 
Maybe yeah, but I don't know how

685
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,400
anyone can watch 98 and go, 
well, that was that was a shit 

686
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,400
season, but we'll be watching 
that again. 

687
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,440
I just don't understand it 
personally. 

688
00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:22,120
Russell, maybe you can help us. 
Is there any rationale that 

689
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,240
you're pulling out of this from 
John us all? 

690
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,920
Well, you've, I suppose you were
starting, the manufacturers were

691
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,720
starting to drop off a bit, 
weren't they really? 

692
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:32,560
I suppose if you if you're 
looking at the spectacle of of 

693
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,920
big grids. 
That's probably what John's 

694
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:35,680
referring. 
Seriously. 

695
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:37,480
He tells us what you already 
mentioned, but. 

696
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,880
The calibre, what you said 
calibre, yeah, the calibre of 

697
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:46,000
drivers you had to probably the 
best in the world in that series

698
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,160
at the time when an English 
driver was getting less and 

699
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,120
less. 
There were more international 

700
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,520
drivers in the Touring Car 
Championship at that point 

701
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,360
compared to probably anywhere 
else, so. 

702
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,960
You you're right that that 
probably makes a good point is 

703
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,320
that the manufacturers, this was
when they realised, well, we're 

704
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,320
not winning anymore. 
We don't want to play and pull 

705
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,000
in their plugs on their 
programmes. 

706
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,360
End of 98, Audi and Peugeot go 
99, three more go Volvo, 

707
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:18,280
Renault, Nissan. 
It's that possibly is where John

708
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,160
is coming from. 
But yeah. 

709
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,760
Of course, 1997 was the last 
year that Lava Land was on the 

710
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:32,280
calendar as well. 
That Batmouth Toca one reference

711
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,840
there next. 
Yeah, and it was the end of 

712
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,640
Patrick Watson's BTCC Courier. 
Exactly. 

713
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,400
I mean it's otherwise I do not 
know actually. 

714
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:41,600
There you go. 
Do you know what? 

715
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,520
John's right. 
Yeah, do you see Patrick got in 

716
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,320
trouble the other day. 
He got kicked off a flight for 

717
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,480
vaping. 
Brilliant. 

718
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:51,720
Right. 
Great classic, Patrick. 

719
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:53,160
What story that really isn't 
there? 

720
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:54,320
Brilliant, isn't it? 
Yeah. 

721
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:02,200
Next up we have one from Paul 
Smith, which is on a similar 

722
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,160
thing of of the championship 
going downhill. 

723
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:08,640
I guess the wings that Alfa 
Romeo introduced to the BTCC 

724
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,880
effectively ruined the 
championship. 

725
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,520
But Russell, what are your 
thoughts? 

726
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,080
I mean, this, this, this kind of
goes into the what do you prefer

727
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:23,400
the the pre 95 or the post 95 
cars, doesn't it? 

728
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,920
But do you, I think regardless 
of your thoughts, whether you 

729
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,880
think the pre 95 or better cars,
do you think the later cars 

730
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,640
ruined the championship? 
I think Alpha definitely is 

731
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,720
probably one of the at the start
if if they hadn't have done it, 

732
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,400
someone else would have done it.
Seriously, it was just if. 

733
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,920
We were just clever and we're on
it first, wasn't that? 

734
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,080
Then everyone wanted to pull a 
suit. 

735
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,120
Yeah. 
And so possibly, yeah, it, it 

736
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:52,760
was inevitable that it was going
to happen. 

737
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,440
Nothing really. 
It would then you think it was 

738
00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:00,240
you'd had the first what, 3, 
three years, all the cars pretty

739
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:03,040
much looked showroom as you'd 
buy from the showroom. 

740
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,240
And then all of a sudden there 
were some extra bits, wasn't 

741
00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:09,760
there? 
That sort of Yeah, yeah. 

742
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,760
I mean, it was funny that 
Renault and BMW had stuff very 

743
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,440
quickly to sort of bring into 
the party. 

744
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,120
So it kind of makes you think 
that were they going to be the 

745
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,560
ones that were going to bring 
something to the to the 

746
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:28,080
playground if if Alpha hadn't? 
Yeah, I think that is key is 

747
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,720
that you've got to remember if 
Alpha hadn't done it, someone 

748
00:43:31,720 --> 00:43:33,760
else would have. 
And from what I understand, 

749
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,480
Renault were one of the teams 
that were not far away from 

750
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,320
doing it themselves. 
So you know, the, the, the, the 

751
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:45,440
rules regarding the homologation
of the cars and how many had to 

752
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:51,840
be had to be made of that 
particular specification was so 

753
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:56,840
low that at some .1 car company,
yes, one car company was going 

754
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:58,000
to go. 
Do you know what that's worth 

755
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,080
it? 
This let's produce 1000 of these

756
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:05,480
stick like Alpha did stick the 
wings on and away we go and 

757
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,200
dominate and did it ruin the 
championship? 

758
00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:13,720
I don't know. 
It certainly spiralled the the 

759
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:15,840
costs. 
That's one thing it definitely 

760
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,560
did. 
But if you listen to Tarquini, 

761
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:22,520
he swears to this day it was the
DIF that was the difference and 

762
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:26,960
not the arrow. 
And, and I can't do that with 

763
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:33,040
Paul Rod, Paul Radisich saying 
utter rubbish when I spoke to 

764
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:34,920
everybody at Brian's Hatch a few
years ago. 

765
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:41,160
So yeah, it's, it's an 
interesting one, yes. 

766
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,120
Did it ruin the championship? 
I'm not sure it ruined. 

767
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,120
I think it added a little bit of
drama. 

768
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,760
I think it definitely ruined 
Ford's chances. 

769
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,880
Personally, I think they, I 
think they whether whether or 

770
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:57,320
not, you know, if Alpha hadn't 
have come in, was fooled of have

771
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:58,760
done nothing. 
It didn't like the ball. 

772
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,640
And I think what we said there 
about the manufacturers like 

773
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,520
Renault, we're doing it in the 
background and BMWI think you 

774
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,400
might find those three main 
players. 

775
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,320
It was probably, probably all do
it all doing it in the 

776
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:10,800
background, getting it all set 
up. 

777
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,040
But it was a race to who could 
get there first. 

778
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,840
Like you said, it's involving, 
it's involving Rd cars still got

779
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,960
to manufacture this stuff 
somehow get it into production. 

780
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,200
But what like Alpha did, well 
doesn't have to be on the car. 

781
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:27,120
That'll just sent a shed load of
them to all the dealers, throw 

782
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:28,280
them in the boot to all the 
cars. 

783
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,840
So it looks like the cars 
arrived with the with the aero 

784
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,120
kit in the boot of the car, but 
it hasn't. 

785
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:34,840
They've just shipped it all out.
You'll probably find that BM, 

786
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:36,280
we're going to probably do the 
same right now. 

787
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,160
We can do the same. 
So I don't necessarily have 

788
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,480
reacted to what they've done. 
I think you'll probably find 

789
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,280
that they're all doing it in the
background thinking, you know, 

790
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:44,880
the word gets out. 
They're all know what's going 

791
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,040
on. 
But it was a race that because 

792
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,080
you, because you're involved in 
the main manufacturing, it's not

793
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,080
just a race team where we could 
just manufacture it and slap it 

794
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,160
on ourselves because it's 
involving like headquarters as 

795
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,160
such, I think it'd have been a 
race. 

796
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:57,600
Because you're getting the 
dealers involved and all that. 

797
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,360
So, and I think Alpha just did a
better job. 

798
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:04,720
This is, I think on that note, 
the other thing that I think 

799
00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:09,000
probably we forget because it's 
the VTCC and it all happened 

800
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:13,520
here and it all kicked off here,
is that even if every team in 

801
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,760
the BTCC had gone, no, we're not
going to do that. 

802
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,720
Someone in Germany would have 
done it, someone in France would

803
00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:21,280
have done it, someone else would
have done it. 

804
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,760
And the actual directive for 95 
came from the FIA. 

805
00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:27,080
Yeah, yeah. 
But the FIA would have got 

806
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,400
involved at some point because 
somebody would have done it 

807
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,120
somewhere. 
Because ultimately the moment 

808
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,440
you're getting cars based on 
productions made is you're going

809
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,840
to headquarters saying we're 
going to make this version of 

810
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:40,040
the car. 
Do you agree? 

811
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:46,840
So someone was going to do it. 
So I think at that point it's 

812
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,160
easy to forget. 
I think because it happened in 

813
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:54,560
Britain that it was all it was 
all to do with Britain and and 

814
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:59,000
the BTCC and and XYZ. 
It would have happened somewhere

815
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,120
else had it not happened in the 
UK and. 

816
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:02,680
Then it would have done it in 
Germany. 

817
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:04,920
Yeah. 
And then, and then at that point

818
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,800
the FI would have gone in 95 or 
96 had it happened to you later.

819
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,440
We're going to have aero and and
the teams in Britain weren't 

820
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,280
going to miss out. 
They'd have, they'd have still 

821
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:18,320
rocked up with it. 
So you know what, I think at 

822
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,400
that point it was always going 
to happen. 

823
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,320
It was the way the championship 
was was always going to go 

824
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,720
because when things get more 
popular like that, teams take 

825
00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:31,760
more risks, put more money in 
and ultimately want to make the 

826
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,400
cars go far. 
That was one of the only ways 

827
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:35,640
they probably could by that 
point. 

828
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,280
Win on Sunday, sales on Monday, 
yeah, Yeah. 

829
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,920
So that was that. 
Maybe that was the that was the 

830
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,080
key back then. 
And that's right because if you 

831
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:49,120
speak to John Cleland, who 
obviously everyone associates 

832
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,840
with Vauxhall in the British Toy
Cup Championship all the way 

833
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,480
through, as we as most people 
probably know now who listen and

834
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,080
still is a Volvo dealer. 
So his bread and butter Monday 

835
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:04,920
to Friday was selling Volvos. 
And he said to me a couple of 

836
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:09,200
weeks ago that in 94, the amount
of people that came into his 

837
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:13,240
dealership go in, oh, that's 
that estate car that raced on 

838
00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:15,720
on, on grandstand on BBC the 
other day. 

839
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:19,400
Let's have a look at that. 
And the amount of people 

840
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:25,680
interested in Volvos shot up in 
94 purely because of Volvo's 

841
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,080
involvement. 
And let's remember that that the

842
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,320
estate wasn't the best car in 
94. 

843
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,760
Wasn't the IT was nowhere near 
the best car? 

844
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,800
You know, marketing genius. 
Absolutely yes. 

845
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:40,240
Yeah, changed the brand forever.
Yeah, and as Adam said, we're 

846
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:46,280
still talking about it now in 
202531 years ago, what you know 

847
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:51,520
what Volvo did and and John gave
it the similar example to me and

848
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,040
he said nobody wanted to know 
anything about Subarus until 

849
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,960
Colin McRae came along and made 
his cool and made St Pretz is 

850
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,320
cool and and and I always think 
Matt and Neil made premier is 

851
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:07,520
cool The the the the glamour and
and the excitement of of Max 

852
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:12,560
power and that Nissan looked 
cool and that's that's what 

853
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,880
happened. 
These cars may were bought. 

854
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,560
Oh yeah, they became cool and 
people were buying and. 

855
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:20,840
That's what they're doing. 
Is that brand association. 

856
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,680
You put a Volvo in the touring 
car grid straight away you're in

857
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:26,520
like the best championship in 
the world for motor sport and 

858
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,240
the Volvo's in there. 
You've got Max power, which was 

859
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:33,240
massive back back in his dice 
all over the side of a touring 

860
00:49:33,240 --> 00:49:34,480
car. 
What's that going to do? 

861
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,200
Rigs, the glamour, brings 
everything around it and that's 

862
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:39,320
all that brand. 
Absolutely. 

863
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,400
Brand, good marketing and. 
Going back to the Alpha thing, 

864
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,080
what we've got to remember as 
well is that Alpha head Alpha 

865
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,920
hid it in the preseason test. 
They didn't run with the hero 

866
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:54,600
stuff. 
They hid it even at Thruxton on 

867
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:59,760
the day be on the, on the 
Thursday run shakedown on the 

868
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,360
Friday test day, they didn't, 
they didn't run them. 

869
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,160
Gabrielli said to us that that 
was because of the homologation 

870
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,960
dates and all this rubbish that,
that was because they didn't 

871
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,200
want anyone knowing they're not 
going to wheel out these things 

872
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,800
with the, do you remember? 
It actually had the space, the, 

873
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,320
the, the extenders in the rear 
wing that just released it. 

874
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,320
And then the, the, the, the 
extended spoiler on the front, 

875
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:27,720
on the front splitter. 
There's no way that they, they 

876
00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:30,400
would just say, oh, we can't run
this yet because of the 

877
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,000
homologation. 
Do you know what I mean? 

878
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:39,200
It's, I love the, it brought a 
bit of F1 to touring cars, which

879
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,120
I thought was quite cool. 
It's a strange way. 

880
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,400
Yeah, I quite like the drama of 
it all. 

881
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,080
And you know, Ford are kicking 
off and Andy Roush has gone to 

882
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:53,560
buy a 155 Silverstone. 
I did enjoy as well the 

883
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:59,640
pettiness of Ford naming the the
the cancer attack, the Monza. 

884
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:04,480
The Monza was it was it was it 
was a funny little dig. 

885
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,960
But did it ruin touring cars? 
No, I don't think it ruined 

886
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:16,040
touring cars, but it possibly 
made the racing different, 

887
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:20,000
better or worse. 
That's up to personal opinion, 

888
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:23,400
but it definitely did have an 
impact on the style of racing. 

889
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,920
I have the championship not got 
to that level with, you know, it

890
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,720
made it look more glitz and 
glamoury when these cars came 

891
00:51:29,720 --> 00:51:34,160
out of the big wings in 95. 
And it made it feel more, I 

892
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,240
don't know a professional about 
it. 

893
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,280
Definitely if you're an F1 
driver that's been booted out, 

894
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,000
you see, you're going to think 
you're going to drive one of 

895
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,040
those cars with the massive 
wings more than you were going 

896
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:49,040
to drive one of those, you know,
9394 one day is it looked a bit,

897
00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:53,080
you know, dealer showroomy. 
So I think it definitely 

898
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,480
probably attracted international
drivers more. 

899
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:01,600
So what you think, Levi? 
They've always got off on one 

900
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,720
now. 
I think it made, I think it was 

901
00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:08,600
part of it, part of the story 
that it it became so ridiculous.

902
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:13,760
That's the excess of the era is 
always part of the story. 

903
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:19,400
We have the championship then 
just kind of you've not stalled 

904
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,520
but kept on its way with those 
pre 95 cars. 

905
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:26,240
In no era when the cars just 
changed shape over time a little

906
00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:29,160
bit and then the love for it 
fizzle down. 

907
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,560
Would we look back a suddenly. 
I think the fact that it 

908
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:36,600
exploded in its face in 2000 
probably and just ended gives it

909
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,880
a bit of bit of the story that 
ends, doesn't it? 

910
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:42,040
That's all folks. 
Thanks for. 

911
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,080
Listening to me, that was a hell
of a random for me. 

912
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:49,120
Still know where that came from?
Levi didn't know he had it in 

913
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,320
your mind. 
I suppose if you get you think 

914
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,360
about it, the Williams Williams 
were going to be in for 95 S 

915
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:59,280
wings and spoilers where it was 
inevitable if there if. 

916
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:01,800
If they weren't building a 
couple without air or will that.

917
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:08,800
No TWR, so no, obviously. 
So it was even if one aero 

918
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,520
definitely was going to be, it 
was going to happen, wasn't it? 

919
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:12,280
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

920
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,560
Next up from Steven Rawson, we 
have the Anthony Reed should 

921
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:23,680
have stayed at Nissan in 1999 as
instead Lauren ILO stole his 

922
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,880
Thunder. 
I'll come to you first on this 

923
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:33,760
one, Adam, as a driver, because 
I think it probably was a 

924
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,360
situation when Anthony signed 
for Ford in 1999 that he knew 

925
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,760
the car he was driving was going
to be taking a step back in 

926
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,840
competitiveness. 
Almost certainly as he's told 

927
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:46,520
us. 
We know that the reason you took

928
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,960
that deal was because Ford 
offered him a two year deal, 

929
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:53,880
paid very well as opposed to 
Nissan's one year deal and the 

930
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:59,000
security of it. 
As a driver with that real life 

931
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,400
element, do you think you'd have
done the same as Anthony or do 

932
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,200
you think you'd have you'd have 
gone for that glory in 99? 

933
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:08,960
100% I don't know exactly what 
Anthony, they've got to think 

934
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:10,800
these drivers, this is their 
job. 

935
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,520
Yeah, we've got families that 
got homes like most of us. 

936
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:18,120
And one year deal wasn't 
guaranteed to win the 

937
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:19,520
championship. 
That wasn't even if you stayed 

938
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:24,640
there, especially Anthony, him 
and him and ILO, 2 completely 

939
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:28,120
different people. 
So he might have had the best 

940
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,040
car, but as we know Anthony 
could build it. 

941
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:32,800
They'll be erratic at times. 
So it doesn't mean he's going to

942
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:38,360
be guaranteed a drive, but to go
and have an offer from Ford of 

943
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,120
all people, as they don't come 
much bigger than that from 

944
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,760
manufacturers, They were 
probably paying me more a year 

945
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,120
than what Nissan were, and 
they've guaranteed him for two 

946
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,400
years. 
What would anybody listening 

947
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,440
this to? 
Yeah, Alice. 

948
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:54,040
Yeah. 
So yeah, you can look back now 

949
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,520
and go, yeah, he stole his them 
because ILO came in, just did 

950
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:58,640
what he did, drop the mic and 
then just pissed off back to 

951
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:00,880
France. 
I mean, like, what a job. 

952
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,760
I've said this before, but like 
and I because I think I said 

953
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:06,240
this to Laurent when he was on 
their lot, how impressive. 

954
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:08,200
What he did? 
When he came into this 

955
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:12,360
championship, if so, I don't 
want to say underrated because 

956
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:14,920
when you think about it, you 
realise what how well he did do,

957
00:55:15,240 --> 00:55:18,480
but he didn't know the circuits.
He didn't know what the crack 

958
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,240
was with the beats ACC too much 
in terms of, you know, watched a

959
00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:24,800
bit of fortune here and there. 
But to come in, do what he did 

960
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:29,320
and then just go was not even 
now so impressive. 

961
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:35,080
Like, honestly, hats off to that
man because and he's and he's so

962
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:39,000
softly, calmly spoken, isn't he?
I don't think he, and we know 

963
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,760
this actually out the fact that 
he doesn't realise how loved he 

964
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:43,480
was and how much he was 
appreciated. 

965
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:47,440
I think because he was only 
there for a season and he's 

966
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,840
gone. 
You know, you build up this 

967
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,760
rapport with people and and this
relationship with the fans and 

968
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:56,560
the drivers over time. 
And I think like when, when you 

969
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:58,960
saw him at brands a couple of 
years back at the Super tour in 

970
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,440
power and like he was shocked at
the how much people wanted to be

971
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,280
around him, talk to him. 
He was a bit I think he was a 

972
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,200
bit overwhelmed boy. 
And I think that's, I think I 

973
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,840
know menus got quite emotional 
before when he's been a brands 

974
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:13,720
about it, not realising the that
nostalgia and what what it still

975
00:56:13,720 --> 00:56:16,360
means to people. 
That was with menu doing what 

976
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:18,480
he's done for years and years 
and years in the championship. 

977
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,280
Aiello came for one season and 
that was it. 

978
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,440
And I think he was really, 
really humbled by it, wasn't he?

979
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:26,920
I think yeah, there was. 
So I think for yeah. 

980
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,000
You say he stole his Thunder. 
He didn't. 

981
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:31,400
He just came in, got the job 
done. 

982
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:32,640
I think there's two stories 
there. 

983
00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:35,040
I think you've got Reed Reedy 
going up and forward. 

984
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:37,600
And we've just explained why, 
you know, the finances and the 

985
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:39,760
fat Ford are doing it. 
Two years could have led to to 

986
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:45,320
to a bit longer or doing other 
stuff with Ford, but and, and 

987
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,240
really had a long relationship 
with Nissan, didn't he? 

988
00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:48,880
And he obviously knew that was 
coming to an end. 

989
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,600
And you've got to kind of make 
the right choices personally, 

990
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,360
not just from the race inside of
things. 

991
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:58,720
But yeah, I think Aiello needs 
so much credit for what he did, 

992
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,840
but I still don't think he'll 
ever fully realise just how good

993
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,400
of a job he did. 
Imagine coming from where he's 

994
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,240
coming. 
Rocket but not kill. 

995
00:57:07,240 --> 00:57:09,200
Do you know what I mean? 
Thinking like what? 

996
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,560
Where am I? 
Like this circuit? 

997
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:12,960
Like the where's the first 
corner? 

998
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:14,320
Oh, it's just over that Crest 
there. 

999
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,040
And then it drops down and then 
you can't see that. 

1000
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:18,640
Yeah, you can't. 
You can see the second corner, 

1001
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:20,560
but you can't see the 3rd and 
4th, 1:00 because that's just 

1002
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:21,960
over. 
Like, Can you imagine the shock 

1003
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:23,360
you'd have had, like just 
turning up there? 

1004
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:26,640
Let's not forget he was 
alongside no slap driver David 

1005
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:30,560
Leslie, who, you know, Nissan 
Superstar won races for Nissan. 

1006
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,920
Yeah, extremely quick driver. 
Yeah, done zillions of laps 

1007
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:37,680
around every circuit that that 
Idos had to go and face and and 

1008
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:41,320
and he's and again, even more 
leagues and to be even more 

1009
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:43,520
impressed with what he did, who 
obviously is brilliant. 

1010
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,400
Next up we have one from Bradley
Tolton who says that night 

1011
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:53,320
racing was a terrible idea. 
Russ, what what were you? 

1012
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:57,120
What was your outlook on the 
night races that we hadn't sort 

1013
00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:59,520
of 99 and 2000, but good events 
for you. 

1014
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:03,240
We Did you attend any of? 
I didn't, I didn't attend them, 

1015
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:07,960
but I do I do remember and I 
think you probably it added a 

1016
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:11,120
different twist, which probably 
the championship needed a little

1017
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,960
bit of a a different slam, a 
spectacle at nights. 

1018
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:18,600
And yeah, yeah, I think, I think
seeing the cars bottoming out 

1019
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,200
and sparks coming out from 
underneath them, I think we all 

1020
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:23,400
like to see a little bit of 
that, don't we? 

1021
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,760
So I. 
Didn't know but the tanium skip 

1022
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:27,760
yes. 
Skip blocks on as well. 

1023
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,640
They made special headlights and
mood lighting inside. 

1024
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:34,840
I think there's red timid lights
and so that's trying to think. 

1025
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:38,120
I remember there was a feature 
on on Yeah Night Racing. 

1026
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:39,400
Yeah. 
Have you been to Le Mon? 

1027
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:44,440
Yeah. 
No, it's it's I don't know why 

1028
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:49,240
they don't bring it back now, 
but that's that's we we won't. 

1029
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:53,280
We'll leave that there. 
They they they also put the 

1030
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:56,480
reflective liveries in the. 
Side of the. 

1031
00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:00,120
Car which are great for 
photography so absolutely yeah 

1032
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:05,800
yeah no I I I I personally think
I'd love to have gone to 1 I I 

1033
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:09,840
work for Colin Stank and vehicle
engineering and and they said 

1034
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,800
that the the night races were 
were something pretty special. 

1035
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:16,440
Yeah, I was at, I was at the 99 
one. 

1036
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:17,960
Brilliant. 
Superb. 

1037
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:20,800
And seen the brakes still hot. 
The brakes are in the dark, 

1038
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:22,720
Yeah, as well. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1039
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:24,920
And. 
What you could see, because if 

1040
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:30,320
you, if you remember, David 
Leslie hit the, the Russell 

1041
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:34,160
chicane really hard with his 
front, right, I think it was. 

1042
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:41,000
And you could see the smoke 
billowing out of that along with

1043
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:44,840
the growing, as Adam just said, 
the glowing red hot breaks. 

1044
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:48,920
And yeah, it was just, it was 
incredible. 

1045
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:54,720
The smells, the noises, the the 
engine sounded just even better 

1046
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:58,520
in the the night time. 
You know, it was just wonderful.

1047
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:03,560
It was like a carnival 
atmosphere, just a great event. 

1048
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:08,640
And and as Russell said. 
I do think Touring Cars is 

1049
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:12,080
missing a trick in not doing. 
I get that they wouldn't get the

1050
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:15,920
ITV coverage or whatnot. 
The logistics of it I guess I 

1051
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:21,200
don't know, there's other bits 
to it but for the action and the

1052
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:26,480
the spectacle I said no brainer 
from me but I've thought the 

1053
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:29,080
same about St Races as well. 
Birmingham. 

1054
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:31,920
Oh yes. 
You know, Birmingham super pre 

1055
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:37,520
incredible, but again, I I don't
know the I don't know the 

1056
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:39,480
insurance and outs of it. 
So apparently the the big 

1057
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,560
expense for Snetterton was the 
the lighting you. 

1058
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,760
Were talking to which about the 
Birmingham Super Pre. 

1059
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,360
I went around, I had to come 
through Birmingham today and I 

1060
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,960
went around, you know, the big 
roundabout at the top and I went

1061
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,960
up the hill, round deep. 
I went around that very 

1062
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,160
roundabout today and some of the
Kerbin is still there. 

1063
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,560
It's still painted in red and 
white. 

1064
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:58,480
Yeah. 
On the inside, yeah. 

1065
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:00,200
That's pretty. 
Still, it's still there. 

1066
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:02,400
I'll try and it's really, really
busy. 

1067
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:04,080
It's like the arbitrary I'm from
there. 

1068
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:07,960
It's. 
So yeah, I'll try and get a 

1069
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,600
photo if I've got somebody with 
me one time to try and get 

1070
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:12,840
interest from the curb in that's
still on the inside. 

1071
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:16,920
Just going back on the TV 
element and that you were 

1072
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,680
mentioned, Alex, I I think 
that's the other thing for his 

1073
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:22,720
era. 
I think actually night racing 

1074
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:27,240
was was kind of the win win for 
the series because, as you say, 

1075
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,680
you wouldn't get it now because 
you'd go well, the TV viewer 

1076
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:32,480
figures will go because it's all
live coverage and this that what

1077
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,800
the in the other. 
But back in the day, as a 

1078
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:38,280
grandstand, you weren't going to
lose viewers because it was a 

1079
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:40,760
night race. 
You know what? 

1080
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:43,560
They weren't going to lose TV 
viewers because of the fact they

1081
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:45,360
did it on a Saturday night, late
at night. 

1082
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:48,400
They still got the crowns 
because the crowns bought into 

1083
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:51,600
this carnival test of the 
atmosphere of it. 

1084
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,080
So if it's Tory cars, whatever 
Tory cars did, the fans are 

1085
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:56,520
always going to be there. 
That's how big a sport it was. 

1086
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:59,840
It had it had to buy it and it 
was that win, win again. 

1087
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:01,920
That's probably why you wouldn't
see it now, because it would be 

1088
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:06,960
too much of A risk in this 
digital TV social age where 

1089
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,880
impressions and numbers count. 
But back then it was a win, win,

1090
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,360
wasn't it? 
It was a crucial race in the 

1091
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:17,160
title as well, because Aiello 
had a slipping clutch in round 

1092
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:21,240
one in the Sprint early in the 
evening, and then in round two 

1093
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:26,800
his bonnet pin came undone and 
he had to pit twice. 

1094
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:31,720
And then he got involved in some
midfield shenanigans with the 

1095
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:39,320
likes of Rydell, Rademacher, 
Bouillon, Plato, Menu ET al, and

1096
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:42,240
Leslie cruised on to a first and
a second. 

1097
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:48,120
But it was just brilliant. 
I can't, I can't really put if 

1098
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,560
you pin me down and say one 
reason why it was so good, there

1099
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:54,920
isn't the IT was just. 
What he bought, it's what he 

1100
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:56,720
bought like to the kind of 
atmosphere, the smells, the 

1101
01:02:56,720 --> 01:03:00,000
noises, the glowing breaks, the 
the graphics that are all lit up

1102
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:01,800
at night. 
I think it was it was 

1103
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:02,960
everything. 
But I think that's just one of 

1104
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:06,960
the very, you know, the feud 
decisions that that Gal made 

1105
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:09,960
over the years, like having 
three races on a race weekend, 

1106
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,920
how it's not going to work out, 
but it worked the night race, it

1107
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:16,640
worked. 
All the decisions those those 

1108
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:19,320
decisions that Gal made over the
years were genius, really. 

1109
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,040
And it also brought one of my 
favourite really quotes with. 

1110
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:24,360
I might even have to take out a 
pair of shades. 

1111
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:31,000
So Next up we have one from John
Barry. 

1112
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:36,000
He says that Paul Ratasich was 
robbed of the BTCC title in 

1113
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,640
1994. 
Alex. 

1114
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:41,880
So I'll let you start off on 
this one. 

1115
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:45,840
What's your, your opinion of it?
Do you think this is along the 

1116
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:49,320
political line or a a pace line 
potentially? 

1117
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:53,480
No, he wasn't. 
Yeah. 

1118
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:56,480
Many finished second in the 
championship. 

1119
01:03:56,720 --> 01:04:00,320
If if if Alfa and Tarquini 
weren't there. 

1120
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:05,360
Renault stolen and got second on
the line in 1994. 

1121
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:07,240
Rattle 60 and it's finished 
third. 

1122
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:09,960
It's a bit like Spurs winning 
the Premier League when 

1123
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,080
Leicester won, isn't it? 
Nobody, nobody. 

1124
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:16,160
There's a claim there that oh, 
Spurs would have went. 

1125
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:18,480
No, they didn't. 
Radicich was third. 

1126
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:21,920
He was not even second. 
I and and this is not a slight 

1127
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,680
on Paul Ford fell off the end of
1994. 

1128
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:29,320
Renault strengthened. 
As I said, they brought in the 

1129
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:32,960
arrow over the course of 1994. 
That championship doesn't lie. 

1130
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,920
Radicich finished third. 
He wasn't even the runner up. 

1131
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:41,160
So to say he was robbed of a 
title because I'm assuming of 

1132
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:46,280
Alfa Romeo and the Arrow and the
diff or whatnot, No, I'm afraid 

1133
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:49,680
not. 
That's probably going to upset 

1134
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:51,760
some people. 
Maybe if you'd had a stronger 

1135
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:56,560
teammate. 
Oh, I, I I wouldn't go that far.

1136
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:00,040
I'm just saying I'm just. 
Afraid. 

1137
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,840
If you cut the season in half 
and that first half of the 

1138
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:07,160
season, yeah, Alpha were 
dominant and Ford were very much

1139
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:14,080
the second best team, but BMW, 
Renault, Peugeot, they 

1140
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:15,080
developed. 
They. 

1141
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:18,800
Did they did They did. 
Patrick Watts finished behind 

1142
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:23,640
the two alphas at both Brands 
Hatch races and finished on the 

1143
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:28,480
podium in on both occasions. 
So no, I I don't think he was 

1144
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:32,120
robbed. 
He won the World Cup 94 as well.

1145
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,120
Yeah. 
So, yeah, I I don't agree with 

1146
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,760
that personally. 
No, But Bradish was quick enough

1147
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,240
to win the title. 
That's not to say he didn't 

1148
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:43,600
deserve one. 
Very, very quick driver. 

1149
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:45,880
Very, very lightning quick 
everywhere. 

1150
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:53,480
You know, he burst on the scene 
in 93 and won six races in, won 

1151
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:56,720
that race at Brands Hatch and 
was consistently up there almost

1152
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:59,160
immediately. 
A very quick driver. 

1153
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:02,720
No, I don't think he was robbed 
in 94 though. 

1154
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:04,480
I don't think he deserved that 
title. 

1155
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:08,880
No, I don't think he was robbed.
I think he was robbed of the 

1156
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:12,480
title, but I think he was robbed
in 9093 and he was robbed by the

1157
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:15,440
slow development of the Ford 
Mondeo, but I think that's 

1158
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:17,680
around it. 
He had, he had a full season 

1159
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:22,000
with the car. 
If they had turned up with the 

1160
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:24,680
well, at least they turned up 
and Pembrey was the first round 

1161
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:25,880
they turned up. 
That wasn't it. 

1162
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:28,920
So if the car had been in the 
state, or was it Pembrey at the 

1163
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:30,400
first round, he'd won the 
thought. 

1164
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:30,840
What? 
Yeah. 

1165
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:34,360
Because I say, I think they 
would have just run the table in

1166
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:37,360
the second-half of the season, 
absolutely run away with it 

1167
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:42,320
because of the no car in the 
second-half in that last quarter

1168
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:46,640
of 1993 could match that Monday 
and especially with him behind 

1169
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:48,240
the wheel. 
I've never thought of it like 

1170
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:49,680
that before, but I don't 
disagree. 

1171
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:58,480
OK, so we've come to our final 
unpopular tenure of the evening 

1172
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:02,720
1st, but this one comes from 
Dave Goddard. 

1173
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:06,440
It is. 
Dave, a contributor at the Yeah 

1174
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:09,800
Friend of the Pod. 
Friend of the pod, he said that 

1175
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:14,520
Steve Super and John Cleland 
should should be censured and 

1176
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:19,440
not celebrated for their part in
the 1992 title decider. 

1177
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:23,920
Which I mean, I guess they were 
very nice to being censured. 

1178
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:26,640
And that that's comes in from a 
Mr Tim Harvey. 

1179
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:32,360
I mean, I mean, Russ, what's, 
what's your view on that? 

1180
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:36,720
Do you think it was one of those
incidents where it did add to 

1181
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:41,880
the character in the drama 
series, or was it two drivers 

1182
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:44,560
that should have named Bettered 
behaving quite unprofessionally 

1183
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:48,800
and setting a bad example? 
Yes. 

1184
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:54,400
Well, for me, I think, yes, it 
was a they both give as good as 

1185
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:56,080
they got, didn't they, To be 
honest with you. 

1186
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:59,160
Yeah. 
And and it, it changed the 

1187
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:03,560
course of touring cars. 
It just exploded onto the media,

1188
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:04,400
didn't it? 
Really. 

1189
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:07,680
It it put it, it put British 
touring cars on the map. 

1190
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:11,360
Whether it was for the right 
reasons, difficult to say. 

1191
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:15,000
But from that everyone knows 
even now, don't they? 

1192
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:17,640
As you said, I'm going first, 
said John Cleland. 

1193
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:22,800
You know, it's that that that 
cemented the British Touring Car

1194
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:26,359
championship, sort of. 
That was close racing and 

1195
01:08:26,359 --> 01:08:28,000
sometimes a little bit too 
close. 

1196
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:32,359
But yeah, as a winning at all 
costs kind of thing really, 

1197
01:08:32,359 --> 01:08:34,920
wasn't it? 
Yeah, as Russell alluded to 

1198
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:38,160
there with the Cleland saying, 
obviously we had Steve super on 

1199
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:42,439
the podcast last week and he 
said the amount of people that 

1200
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:48,479
come up to him at car club 
meetings or events he goes to or

1201
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:52,200
anything like that, you know, 
for example, Brands Hatch with, 

1202
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:55,520
with super touring power, the 
amount of people that come up to

1203
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:57,399
him and go, ah, the man's an 
animal. 

1204
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:02,720
And, and to this day, I think 
it's I don't think it's the the 

1205
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:07,359
incident that celebrated as such
because ultimately. 

1206
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:10,600
That was because there's been 
worse crashes than that you. 

1207
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:13,160
Know back to some of. 
The some of the things that have

1208
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:15,880
gone on absolutely in throughout
the years. 

1209
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:21,120
But I also think if it wasn't 
for that, that put touring cars 

1210
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:25,319
on the map for everything, as 
Steve said last week on the 

1211
01:09:25,319 --> 01:09:28,680
podcast, because we talked about
it with him and I was, I'm 

1212
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:32,439
always a bit wary to talk about 
92 with Steve because it's a 

1213
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:36,479
tricky 1, isn't it? 
But there was no F1, there was 

1214
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:39,520
no World Rally Championship that
weekend, there was no other 

1215
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:43,720
major motorsport event. 
So that incident was on the 

1216
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,640
front cover of Autosport, it was
on the front cover of Motoring 

1217
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:50,720
News, it was on the main page of
the Teletext motorsport section.

1218
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:54,279
It was everywhere. 
It was in the papers, in the 

1219
01:09:54,279 --> 01:09:56,560
sports pages of the of the red 
tops. 

1220
01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:01,160
It was everywhere. 
It made touring cars a household

1221
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:05,880
thing in Britain, and I think 
that's what's celebrated, not 

1222
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:11,160
Super and Cleland banging fight 
bells out of each other. 

1223
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:12,760
Yeah. 
I think it's because it was a 

1224
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:15,720
title decider. 
Yeah, that's if that had just 

1225
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:19,240
been like round five, that's net
or wherever it was. 

1226
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:21,760
Like it's just another touring 
car crashed like Rush said. 

1227
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:25,600
Like it was far worse than that,
you know, But the fact that that

1228
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,240
was for a title and they were, 
they both gave as good as they 

1229
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:31,040
got. 
Yeah, I think it's and. 

1230
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:33,720
How these are household names 
and it like it was just part of 

1231
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:37,600
the of the circus of touring 
cars. 

1232
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:39,720
You know, this was part of it, 
wasn't it? 

1233
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:41,120
Because it was the last round of
the championship. 

1234
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:44,000
That's what I made it all what 
it was. 

1235
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:49,240
I think if, like you said, Steve
and Tim and Cleland will all get

1236
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:53,280
asked questions about that race 
for the rest of their lives and 

1237
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:54,480
we're still talking about it 
now. 

1238
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,760
But if that would have just been
a race throughout the during the

1239
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:00,000
season, you wouldn't be talking 
about it. 

1240
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,280
Yeah. 
And I think the the other thing 

1241
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:06,840
is that I think this this TV 
that I think if you're viewing 

1242
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:09,760
it from was their driving up 
stand. 

1243
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,200
I mean, Steve was very candid 
with us last week. 

1244
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:15,800
That was that the best Steve 
sofas ever driven. 

1245
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:19,800
No, you know, he, it wasn't what
you'd probably expect from him. 

1246
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:25,240
And he they were brought up in 
front of a tribunal for that 

1247
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:29,080
reason, you know, when and 
really people wanted to throw 

1248
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:30,400
the book at them for that 
reason. 

1249
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:34,120
Some people did for their part, 
and just the fact that they both

1250
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:38,640
agreed, so they're not going. 
To like, yeah, you know, they're

1251
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:40,000
not going to pursue each other 
for it. 

1252
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:43,280
They they what? 
What can Alan Gowan and they do?

1253
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,720
And anybody do like they need? 
These people in the 

1254
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:47,840
championship, Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah. 

1255
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:49,760
Right. 
Alan Gow would have been pushing

1256
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:52,640
for it, secretly knowing like, 
you know, he'd have been and 

1257
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:54,720
publicly going, oh, they're a 
pair of nutters and I'm going to

1258
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:56,160
bollock them. 
I'm going to do this any other. 

1259
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:58,040
But in reality, I think I would 
have. 

1260
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:01,280
Been rubbing his hands, Yeah of.
Course, everyone's talking about

1261
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:03,840
it on the Monday morning, like 
you just said, every newspaper 

1262
01:12:04,440 --> 01:12:09,000
that's like, that's increasing 
Allen's BTCC brand, isn't it? 

1263
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:10,520
Yeah, absolutely. 
I. 

1264
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:11,400
Think. 
I think it's. 

1265
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:12,320
Brand values gone through the 
roof. 

1266
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:15,600
The other thing as well is that 
the sport at the end of the day 

1267
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:19,160
is, is entertainment. 
Do we want to be seeing 

1268
01:12:19,480 --> 01:12:22,400
dangerous, unsafe actions every 
week? 

1269
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:25,280
No, of course not. 
But this was, this was clearly a

1270
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:29,880
situation of two drivers just 
getting at their absolute peak 

1271
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:32,680
of competitiveness. 
You know, John Clene and the Sea

1272
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:37,200
Soaper had never been driving 
people off the road before that,

1273
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:40,440
and they weren't going to start 
doing it every week either. 

1274
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:44,080
You know, I think you could have
said that in 1992. 

1275
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:47,480
So then it becomes a thing of 
all the it's the drama about 

1276
01:12:47,480 --> 01:12:49,600
it's the entertainment about of,
of sport. 

1277
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:53,720
Like a bit like my, my rousing 
speech earlier. 

1278
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:57,560
You know that. 
You know that you need to calm 

1279
01:12:57,560 --> 01:13:00,480
down. 
But. 

1280
01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:05,720
It's, it's an also, I mean, you 
start with F1 in in 2021 with 

1281
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:08,760
Abu Dhabi. 
Was it from an organisational 

1282
01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:10,680
point of view, F1's finest 
moment? 

1283
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:12,560
No, I think we can all agree 
that. 

1284
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:17,080
But it's the moment that again, 
F1 just seemed to explode even 

1285
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:20,840
further in popularity again. 
After that moment, people still 

1286
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:22,400
the last. 
Moment of the championship, 

1287
01:13:22,440 --> 01:13:24,560
people. 
Still have the moment because 

1288
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:27,440
it's the drama of sport. 
It's it's what we watch it for. 

1289
01:13:27,440 --> 01:13:31,800
We watch it for that crescendo. 
It's why we look, probably look 

1290
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:35,800
back at seasons where there are 
deciders as sometimes the better

1291
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:39,720
ones because as Alex said 
earlier, if someone winning the 

1292
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:42,120
title in July doesn't use that 
crescendo. 

1293
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:44,680
This is last minute stuff, This 
is last minute. 

1294
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:47,080
This is last. 
This is like the 97th goal of a 

1295
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:49,040
football match being 97th minute
winner. 

1296
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:52,160
That's what this was and that's 
what Abu Dhabi was with Hamilton

1297
01:13:52,160 --> 01:13:54,400
Verstappen. 
It was out of the seat stuff. 

1298
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:58,640
Actually, I think to say they 
should be cinched as maybe a bit

1299
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:01,640
strong because also I think we 
all acknowledge neither of them 

1300
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:04,760
particularly paint themselves in
glory of the driving. 

1301
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:07,520
You know, it's not like they're 
saying, oh, what a great battle.

1302
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:09,920
It's a shame it ended like that.
We say what? 

1303
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:13,640
The great race, Yeah, probably 
shouldn't have dread into each 

1304
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:17,680
other like that. 
So I think from that side, it's 

1305
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:19,720
probably a bit more balance, 
isn't it? 

1306
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:23,480
And as as you say, Alex, it's we
celebrate the impact it then had

1307
01:14:23,480 --> 01:14:29,920
on on tour and car racing. 
All right then, I think that's 

1308
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:32,880
about all the chaos we can 
handle for an episode. 

1309
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:36,040
Massive thanks to everyone he 
sent in their unpopular 

1310
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:38,400
opinions. 
I think we've managed to start 

1311
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:42,440
more arguments in one hour here 
than in one hour at Alton Park 

1312
01:14:42,440 --> 01:14:48,920
in 1994. 
Thanks again to Russell for 

1313
01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:50,920
joining us this evening. 
It's been great to have you on 

1314
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:53,720
and getting your view on some of
those unpopular opinions. 

1315
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:56,520
Thanks for having me, it's been 
an absolute privilege. 

1316
01:14:57,120 --> 01:15:00,280
And if you've got another 
unpopular opinion that you 

1317
01:15:00,280 --> 01:15:02,400
didn't send in, keep them 
coming. 

1318
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:04,720
I'm sure we can make a lot of 
these over time. 

1319
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:06,400
It's been a lot of fun 
discussing them. 

1320
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:09,760
Has been so. 
So definitely keep them coming, 

1321
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:13,160
especially if you want to hear 
more of our takes on them as 

1322
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:15,080
well. 
So you can either drop us a 

1323
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:18,080
message on social media or 
e-mail the show. 

1324
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:23,840
I think it's POD at 1990s 
btcc.com and we might just 

1325
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:27,560
feature yours next time and let 
all of us tear it apart for. 

1326
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You which we. 
Enjoy. 

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So that's it for this one. 
Thank you all for listening. 

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01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:36,160
Don't forget to subscribe and 
rate us as Five star on your 

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01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:39,320
podcast app of choice and we'll 
catch you next time. 

1330
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:42,160
For more on stories from Super 
Touring, goodbye.