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Stories from Super Touring. 
Welcome along to another episode

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of Stories from Super Touring. 
Bad news, I'm afraid Levi Riley 

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is not with us this week. 
So you're stuck with me, Greg 

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Haynes as the host for now. 
But the good news is we do have 

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the Oracle, as he's known the 
founder of Stories from Super 

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Story, Alex Clark with us, as 
always, as we look back at one 

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of the most unforgettable and 
one of the scariest, I would 

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say, weekends in the Super 
Touring history of the 1990s era

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of the British Touring Car 
Championship. 

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And joining us today, Alex and I
are real treat for you because 

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our special guest is motorsport 
photographer Jacob Ebrie, who 

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was right there on the ground at
Alton Park on that May Monday 

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Bank holiday round of early 
1996. 

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Now, if you know your BTCC 
history, you'll know that that 

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96 Alton Park meeting is 
infamous, remembered for all the

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wrong reasons. 
It's remembered it's the weekend

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of one of the most horrific 
crashes in the series history, 

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when Volvo's Kelvin Burt was 
involved in an accident in the 

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first race, so violent that it 
left everybody wondering how on 

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earth he survived. 
Another testament to the 

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strength of the cast and the 
circuit protection as well. 

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The images of the wreckage, 
which Jacob will be telling us 

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all about very shortly were 
jaw-dropping. 

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And at the time, nobody could 
have predicted the remarkable 

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story of recovery for Kelvin 
that he would go on to share. 

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And unbelievably, he was 
actually back in action just a 

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few races later. 
So we'll be hearing from Jacob 

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about what it was like to be 
there on the ground at Alton up 

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in Cheshire in early 96, the 
atmosphere, the shock and how 

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the incident affected everyone 
in the paddock. 

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But first of all, Jacob, welcome
along for the first time to the 

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podcast Stories from Super Tory.
How did you get into it? 

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What was so special for you 
about 1990s BTCC? 

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But I just loved it. 
Everything about it was 

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brilliant. 
I grew up in a family which is 

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quite into motorsport, never 
competed, never prepared a car, 

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just went to lots of races and 
also part of my local track. 

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So the Super Tours with a big 
event of the year and everything

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about them was just amazing. 
The noise, the sound, the star 

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drivers, the teams, it was just 
getting bigger and bigger and 

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bigger and with the events at 
the end of 92, the world 

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audience got bigger so it just 
drew more and more people into 

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the sport. 
It was just a win, win situation

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for everyone. 
And Alton part 96. 

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Probably a stupid question, but 
what comes first to mind when 

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you think of that particular 
race? 

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Meeting Well, I was a lot 
younger than what I am now. 

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So I think at that time I was 18
or so and I'd it was one of the 

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first big meetings I got 
trackside accreditation for. 

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I was working for a photographer
called John Collie and in that 

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period he had the Renault 
contract and we did a lot of 

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work for Volvo as well. 
So a bit of pressure when you're

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that age and you're shooting all
of film that you've got to get 

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it right. 
Big meeting. 

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So pre digital age obviously. 
So you only had the what you did

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on the day as your work and race
one. 

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I was down at Nickerbuck Chicane
and I don't know, I always 

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follow the racing as well as try
and take the best pictures and 

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some are coming out of Old Hall,
Darren Denton's and literally 

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there's a bit of a kerfuffle and
Kelvin's car got fired off to 

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the left and instinctively I 
picked up a camera and shot a 

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sequence of photos on film. 
You didn't know if you had got 

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the accident or not, but I was 
fairly sure that I had. 

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But then the weirdest thing 
ever, obviously I was not used 

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to be in a situation where 
there'd be in a big accident, 

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especially not one of this 
scale. 

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And the violence of the accident
was pretty substantial. 

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So it was really weird. 
Everything went quiet. 

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The medics turned up everything.
I thought, what do we do now? 

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It's like I can't really didn't 
want to hang around on there. 

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I didn't want to take lots of 
photographs. 

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We didn't need of situation. 
You didn't know which way it was

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going to go from. 
My everlasting memory is I 

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walked up Cascades tracksides, 
past the spectators, back to the

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press office because it was 
obviously going to be quite a 

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long time before the restart and
there was literally people 

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crying in the crowd. 
And it's something as a 18 year 

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old you didn't quite expect to 
see. 

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I don't know how long it took 
for that accident to be cleared 

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up, but it was just a big mess 
on the scene. 

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So. 
But amazingly with he only 

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missed one round and he was 
Kelvin was back out, so luckily 

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there was a good end to end to 
the story that he was back 

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racing again. 
And he's more disappointing for 

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Kelvin though as well because 
he'd won the previous round at 

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Silverstone. 
Though to be winning a race and 

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then being ambulanced away must 
have been an absolute nightmare 

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for a person at that point in 
their career. 

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Yeah, you took the words out of 
my mouth actually Jacob, because

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Alex, coming to you, first of 
all, thank you for letting me 

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keep Levi's seat warm. 
It's a bit like have I got news 

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for you as a guest host, isn't 
it coming in at this juncture? 

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But no, as Jacob says, I mean, 
it was only 8 days before at 

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Silverstone when Burst had 
passed Roberto Ravalli in the 

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closing stages at Priory Corner 
and gone on to one. 

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It was the first Volvo win, 
wasn't it, of the 96 season. 

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And then this happens just days 
later. 

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Yeah, it's it's quite impressive
actually. 

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When you think of Volvo, you 
think of Rydell and you always 

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assumed that Ricard would win 
the first race of the of the 

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year for Volvo. 
It was Ricard's team. 

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We talked about that with, with 
Rademacher the other day. 

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But it no, it Kelvin jumped into
that Volvo team. 

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Obviously he was with Ford the 
previous season with the ROW 

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squad, jumped into the Volvo 
replacing Tim Harvey and landed 

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pretty much quickly. 
And yeah, as you said, won a 

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race. 
And what an absolute horrible 

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way to to continue that career 
by about his Volvo career with 

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such a horrific, awful shunt. 
I, I don't think you can use 

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words to to describe it. 
I mean, we'll talk about it 

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length when we talk it in, in, 
in the later on in the episode 

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when we're talking about the 
accent itself. 

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But I only saw it on the 
television. 

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I I wasn't at this race, and I 
think I'm quite glad I wasn't at

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this race. 
One of the few occasions where I

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can say, actually, I wish I 
wasn't there because I would 

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have been 11:00. 
So I don't think that's 

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something that I would have 
wanted to see. 

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Yeah. 
Just a very, very unpleasant 

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accident. 
And yeah, you know, you, you 

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automatically think of Greg 
Hansford, Keith O'door when you 

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see an accident like that. 
And thankfully he wasn't added 

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to that list. 
Yeah, I mean, what was it, 12 

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months? 
I said before when Charlie Cox 

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had gone Barrow rolling into the
chicane, it thrust and we'd had 

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two huge accidents here, hadn't 
we? 

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Which thankfully the two drivers
made full recoveries from. 

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Yeah, as you say, we'll talk 
more about the crash later in 

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the show and we've got some 
spectacular still imagery of 

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this from Jacob himself, which 
Alex, maybe for our Paddock Club

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members, you can show us that on
the camera later. 

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On auto. 
Sport Magazine. 

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It could be quite nice to see. 
I mean, spectacular shots, 

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Jacob, but obviously we've been 
in touch and you've been in 

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touch with all of us as well. 
And as expected on social media,

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Kelvin Burt's monumental 
accident has dominated your 

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thoughts. 
So thoughts from the listeners 

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and the viewers. 
Chris Jewell had this down as 

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his first memory. 
The Burt crash, Jimmy Abrel or 

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Abrel Hope I'm pronouncing that 
correctly. 

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Luke Roberts and Roland Hill all
said Alton, 96, the Burt crash. 

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Michael Taylor says he remembers
going around the pits connecting

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free merchandise at his first 
ever BTCC event and getting his 

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face painted at the Audi stand. 
Yeah, I remember that. 

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I remember John Wickham, the 
Audi T manager, having his his 

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war painters. 
Murray Walker described it later

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on in the season, bright red 
with the white Audi rings on it 

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and his face was pink for a 
week, apparently. 

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Michael Taylor say he's having 
struggled to wash that off 

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afterwards. 
Tom B. 

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Tom, thanks for getting in 
touch. 

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Remembers it was the first 
meeting he ever went to. 

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He saw the Burke crash as you 
did Jacob at the Ave and also 

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remembers John Binkliff putting 
it in the wallet dearly in the 

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morning. 
Right. 

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OK, so that was in the. 
Morning. 

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He had a big one. 
Yeah. 

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That's something we didn't see 
on the season review video, 

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isn't it? 
Patrick Hathaway remembers 

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Richard Kayes, yes, the Violet 
looking entry into who can get 

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their car most airborne 
competition. 

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So yeah, we're with Kay and 
Bert. 

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We had quite a lot of that, 
didn't we? 

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On that particular weekend. 
Matt Brittland remembers it 

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being the first BTC surround he 
watched to have Charlie Cox on 

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the commentary with Murray 
Walker being absent. 

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Yes that will be I guess because
it was a Bank Holiday Monday 

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event and they didn't have as 
much time to get the footage 

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back. 
He was probably away at the 

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Grand Prix. 
So Steve Slater commentator 

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didn't he with Charlie for that 
one? 

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Ronan G Hill says it was a shame
it was a quiet race. 

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It was actually quite a 
processional 1 to introduce the 

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BTCC to the masses and Paul 
Moore remembers Paul Wilhoi had 

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a good start in race one. 
Very short lived there. 

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Wasn't it coming together with 
Radissic pretty much before they

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even got going? 
The build up to the meeting was 

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unsurprisingly dominated by the 
talk of additional weight 

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penalties, with ALDI being 
handed an extra 30 kilogrammes 

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added to their cars from this 
weekend. 

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A little bit similar to the 
politics with AR2 years before. 

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ALDI made light of this by 
running a national ad campaign, 

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with drivers Frank Beeler and 
John Bintcliff depicted as 

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Michelin men. 
The talk in the paddock though 

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was that Audi was already 
considering its future with the 

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four wheel drive quattro. 
Audi Sport chief doctor Wolfgang

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Aldrich told Autosport It is 
something we'll have to consider

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if white penalties become 
search, that we cannot be 

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competitive with the quattro. 
We have two options, stop 

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motorsport or go front wheel 
drive. 

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The idea is to keep going with 
the Quattro because it is the 

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whole Audi Sport idea, but we'll
also have to discuss this with 

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our marketing team. 
Jacob, what were your thoughts 

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at the time? 
Were you surprised there was 

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already murmurings this early in
the season? 

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Obviously this was Audi's first 
year in the UK. 

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They were doing very well, but a
lot of discontent wasn't there 

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in and around the paddock about 
that 4 wheel drive system. 

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Yeah. 
Well, it obviously had to be 

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quite a major advantage because 
up to Alton it had pole four of 

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the circuits beforehand and up 
to and including that I think 

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they had five wins out of eight 
races. 

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So I mean, obviously they're 
quite a good pilot in the car, 

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but to be that dominant that 
early on they obviously had some

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massive technical advantage 
which I think putting 30 kilos 

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in the car wasn't going to make 
much difference to them 

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whatsoever. 
Just having the drive off all 

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the corners. 
And even at Alton Park, I think 

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qualifying was in the wet and 
the advantage was increased even

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more. 
I mean, it rains quite a lot in 

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Britain, so it's probably quite 
a good move. 

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Yeah, it was incredible, wasn't 
it, the way they came in. 

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I mean, it must have been a bit 
dejecting, Alex, for everybody 

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else with these silver bullets 
just turning out from Germany 

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and certainly one of them pretty
much dominating everything, 

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wasn't it at this point. 
Yeah, you'd you'd say so because

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it wasn't just the the the four 
wheel drive that had the the 

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start advantage or the grip. 
They also had weird lines. 

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They could be quick in different
parts of the track that the 

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front wheel drive cars just 
couldn't be. 

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And that was discussed that will
that gets discussed in this 

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meeting actually that that bin 
Cliff at one point literally is 

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holding a train of about 6 or 7 
cars in the second race. 

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I think it is because he's able 
to just go quick enough in weird

225
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,840
parts of the track that you 
probably wouldn't get that quick

226
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,000
in a front wheel drive car. 
I mean, we've had we had the 

227
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,840
complaints of rear wheel drive 
from 9293 that it didn't we then

228
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,240
there was arrow. 
There was always something, but 

229
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,600
this seemed to have a this was a
major, major thing because the 

230
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,160
front wheel drive cars now 
didn't only have to worry about 

231
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,680
the rear wheel drive, but they 
had this 4 wheel drive. 

232
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:39,680
And as Jacob mentioned, only had
won a good majority of the races

233
00:12:39,680 --> 00:12:43,000
so far this year. 
And the two of the other three 

234
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:44,720
winners were rear wheel drive 
cars. 

235
00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:49,920
And Kelvin Burds Volvo was the 
only front wheel drive winner at

236
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:56,760
this point. 
So yeah, discontent that when 

237
00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,080
there's a BTCC paddock not had 
to discontent in it at some 

238
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,680
point down the down the pit. 
It must have been tricky for 

239
00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:04,920
Tiger actually, considering all 
those different configurations 

240
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,000
of cars you've just mentioned. 
Front wheel drive, rear wheel 

241
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,400
drive, 4 wheel drive. 
Audi with Dunlock tyres as well,

242
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,040
of course, which, yeah, 
advantages we think over at 

243
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,560
Nissan though, as you were 
pointing out to me earlier, Alex

244
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:18,840
signs that Rao Sport was 
strengthening their links with 

245
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,560
the Japanese manufacturer and it
was confirmed that they would be

246
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,320
taking on the test and 
development role for their 

247
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,400
German Super Touring 
championship outfits. 

248
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,240
So Andy Rouse's crew with 
Nissan. 

249
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,480
Rouse, who had switched to the 
Semi works programme with the 

250
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,800
Nissans after three years with 
Ford, had been given the 

251
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,120
expanded role after they were 
concerns that the BMS Scuderia 

252
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,760
Italia team, who were running 
the German squad, were unable to

253
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,040
run a viable test programme 
around their racing commitments.

254
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,120
The team tested Anthony Reid's 
BMS Premier at Alton Park on the

255
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,520
Tuesday prior to this race 
weekend with a hope that a 96 

256
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,800
Premiera would be delivered to 
the team ahead of the Snetterson

257
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:56,680
races. 
And they were dramatic, one of 

258
00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:58,240
them in particular. 
In June. 

259
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,280
Rouse and Gary Ailes also tested
the car. 

260
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,360
Now Alex, some interesting 
developments there in the Nissan

261
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,800
squad over this weekend. 
There was a lot going on. 

262
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,640
Wasn't the behind the scenes. 
Yeah, there was. 

263
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,080
I mean, so obviously it was a 
weird one because it was a semi 

264
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:14,920
works. 
It wasn't it wasn't an 

265
00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,200
independent. 
They weren't in the the total 

266
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,880
cup for independence. 
It wasn't a work squad. 

267
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:24,480
It was this sort of middle of 
the road semi works effort. 

268
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,760
They were old cars. 
They weren't up to spec cars as 

269
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,200
as you just said, Greg, they 
were hoping to get delivery of a

270
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,280
96 Nissan by SNET. 
And I think it came even later 

271
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,080
than that. 
And they only ever had one and, 

272
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,400
and Gary Ailes had that. 
They were also running on the 

273
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:48,360
Yokohama tyres, which they 
wanted to switch to Michelin. 

274
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,200
And they did race and they did 
at some point in this weekend, I

275
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,760
can't remember when, I think 
they ran some. 

276
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,000
It must have been in qualifying.
It must have been the Michelin 

277
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,280
wets. 
But Michelin didn't want to 

278
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:04,360
support the team. 
But Michelin, we're supplying 

279
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,840
the BMS squad. 
So yeah, it's all very messy, 

280
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,320
isn't it? 
But it, you know, it, it looked 

281
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,440
like it was strengthening ties 
with Nissan and possibly would 

282
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,480
have been the the precursor to 
them taking on the full contract

283
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:24,160
when 97 came along and Nissan 
came into the series full time. 

284
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,840
But as we now know, Malik took 
on that contract and and Rouse 

285
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:32,320
lost out. 
It was a weird, a weird year for

286
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,160
Rouse. 
As we know, he's an incredible 

287
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,800
engineer and car builder and 
designer. 

288
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,200
It it's almost a bit of an 
insult that he was handed these 

289
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,880
one to two year old super tours 
and don't write. 

290
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,880
Do what you can with that. 
Yeah, it was a strange year for 

291
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,280
the for the Nissans. 
And when we had Gary Ailes on 

292
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,680
the podcast, he wasn't very 
complimentary about the cars. 

293
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,680
Yeah, it it, it's a weird one 
because you would look at that 

294
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,040
and think, well, they're 
building up the relationship for

295
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,480
a full attack, but evidently 
not. 

296
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:09,080
But yeah, obviously a precursor 
to really starting in the 

297
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,720
championship full time as well 
him testing in the in in the in 

298
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,160
the Olden Park where it's the 
week before this meeting with 

299
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,080
the the Scuderia Italia car. 
Another interesting development 

300
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,000
behind the scenes at this time 
was Julian Bailey, former Grand 

301
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,160
Prix driver, former BTCC driver,
of course. 

302
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,240
He was rumoured to be returning 
to the championship later in the

303
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,520
96 season, potentially bringing 
with him the Dave Cook Run 

304
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,400
Toyota Camry that had been 
racing down in South Africa. 

305
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,360
Now, Cook was understood to be 
eyeing a handful of selected 

306
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:44,120
BTCC meetings in the second-half
of 96 once that Camry was fully 

307
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,520
prepared and competitive. 
And in the meantime, Bailey was 

308
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,640
on very strong form abroad, 
having taken and 3rd in the most

309
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,080
recent South African rounds. 
Jacob. 

310
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,120
I mean, we know Julian's profile
don't we? 

311
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,080
A very good driver, great 
character as well for the TV as 

312
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,040
we saw on the coverage over the 
era. 

313
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,360
Would have been good I guess to 
see him back in the series. 

314
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:05,599
Yeah, we've been absolutely 
brilliant. 

315
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:09,599
I mean it's much remembered 
obviously for the Silverstone 

316
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,800
Grand Prix race support, but 
then what strikes me has been 

317
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:18,200
exceptionally brilliant is next 
race out and not kill all and 

318
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,480
win. 
Yes, and the Queen is only win. 

319
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:23,200
Yes. 
That is it. 

320
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,839
So off the back of that he 
literally, I mean anyone who can

321
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:32,880
win the formal Ford Festival. 
I think he won his third ever 

322
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,080
international 3000 race after 
starting mid season. 

323
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,600
And to get points in the Grand 
Prix low to in a Lotus when the 

324
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,480
team was absolutely diabolical, 
to finish when you only got 

325
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,640
points down to six and you 
finish fifth in a race is pretty

326
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,360
outstanding. 
But yeah, it would have been 

327
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:54,760
good to see a Camry as well, but
I don't know if it still worked 

328
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,280
the same back then though. 
Were you allowed to run a model 

329
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,600
which wasn't UK spec? 
Because I'm not sure they sold 

330
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,480
that car in the UK. 
Well, I don't know if they did 

331
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,680
or not. 
No, I don't know if they did or 

332
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,960
not. 
You never know if that was just 

333
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,760
Dave Cook and fishing around to 
get back in the Toyota Fold or 

334
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,720
not. 
Possibly or I don't know. 

335
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,400
But to see a different car I 
like, I love Japanese touring 

336
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,920
cars in South Africa, Touring 
the Camry is a stunning, 

337
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,160
stunning looking vehicle. 
Oh, it's a lot wider track than 

338
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:28,200
a lot of our European cars. 
But yeah, no, it would have been

339
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,520
great to see Julian back because
as you say, it's a bit of a 

340
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,600
enigma and also very good in and
out of the car. 

341
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,760
And of course this is an excuse 
to mention Murray Walker as well

342
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,960
because you just mentioned 
Silverstone 93 in the Grand Prix

343
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,520
support, which Alex Clark of 
course brought one of the most 

344
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,640
memorable Murray one liners of 
all time. 

345
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,960
I do love it. 
The car upside down is a Toyota.

346
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,120
What a crate, isn't it? 
Superb. 

347
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,560
Superb. 
I think it ties up nicely with 

348
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,720
Murray's background in 
advertising as well. 

349
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:57,920
Yes, absolutely. 
Good point. 

350
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,760
Yeah, let's move on to check in 
Winklehok then, because of 

351
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,480
course he'd been back in Britain
for just a few races after 

352
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:05,840
skipping the 95 season he was 
abroad, wasn't he? 

353
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,160
But he'd come back for 96. 
Schnitzer had come back as well,

354
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:13,000
and Joe was increasingly anxious
about the prospect of BMW 

355
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:14,640
receiving a weight penalty as 
well. 

356
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,080
A 30 kilogramme penalty maybe 
from the organisers, especially 

357
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,680
after seeing what had already 
just happened to ALDI, the head 

358
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,880
of this Alton Park meeting. 
BTCC organisers Poker run by 

359
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,880
Alan Gau, of course, have the 
right to impose an extra 25 

360
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,920
kilos on the BMW's base weight 
with just, would you believe, 10

361
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,720
days notice. 
Speaking to Autosport, 

362
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,200
Winklehawk said. 
Unsurprisingly, I don't agree 

363
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,320
with it, but I am certain we'll 
be given a weight increase in 

364
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:45,280
the next few races. 
Alex Smokin Joe, we know he 

365
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:46,840
loved Austin Park. 
He said it was like a mini 

366
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,560
Nurburger ring Nord Slifer, 
didn't he? 

367
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,640
But was that concerned justified
regarding these potential 

368
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,960
weights increases and ballast 
penalties? 

369
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,560
Yes, I mean, he's doing well and
the, the the car is doing well, 

370
00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,800
so of course he's going to be 
concerned with this sort of 

371
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,000
almost like this Sword of 
Damocles hanging over him and 

372
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,880
you know. 
If you're going to keep doing 

373
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,320
well, we're just, we're going to
stick it on you. 

374
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,680
But of course, as you said, he's
of course he's not going to 

375
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,640
agree with it. 
You know, I can guarantee all 

376
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,160
the front wheel drive teams 
absolutely agreed with it and 

377
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,200
thought it should happen right 
here and right now. 

378
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:24,720
But yeah, it's always going to 
be the, the, the, the, the worry

379
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,960
for organisers is the 
equalisation when you've got so 

380
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:32,920
many different configurations. 
When they first brought in NGTC 

381
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,680
and Alan Gow originally said, if
you remember, there's not going 

382
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:38,320
to be any rear wheel drive, 
there's not going to be any 4 

383
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,840
wheel drive. 
I thought maybe you'll actually 

384
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,360
get a towing car championship 
without this fighting. 

385
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:48,560
But obviously they relented and 
the, the Audis BMWs, they were, 

386
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:53,880
they were rear wheel drive. 
So yeah, whenever you're going 

387
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,320
to have different configurations
like this, you're always going 

388
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:01,120
to get this upset and this 
balance of people not being 

389
00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:03,920
happy and impossibly getting it 
to balance. 

390
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,640
I don't know how how you do it 
to this day because rear wheel 

391
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,920
drive is going to have some 
inherent advantages over front 

392
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,400
wheel drive and then you've got 
4 wheel drive which will have a 

393
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,040
different type of advantage over
the. 

394
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,960
It's just, I don't think you can
ever really fix it. 

395
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,120
But I always thought TOCA did 
quite a good job of it to be 

396
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:29,400
fair, you know, yeah, I, I, I 
never thought it was really 

397
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,640
ridiculously unfair. 
Possibly the start of this 

398
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,240
season when the Audis were 
really, you know, what was it at

399
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,440
Thruxton when the Beeler started
with a 10 centre penalty from 

400
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:40,680
the back and still finished 
third. 

401
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,720
So, you know, and maybe at that 
point it was a bit because I 

402
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,320
think that's when they sort of 
woke up and went, oh, we 

403
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:47,880
probably need to do something 
about this. 

404
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,760
Ten days is quite a harsh, it's 
quite a harsh notice period, 

405
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,680
isn't it? 
So yeah. 

406
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,000
To me, it would just completely 
change the way the car 

407
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,400
accelerates, brakes, change of 
direction and everything, 

408
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:00,680
wouldn't it? 
But I mean, if there was 

409
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,000
frustration, then Jacob at Audi 
and BMW, let's go to Ford where 

410
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,680
things have been, let's be 
honest, a bit of an unmitigated 

411
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,920
disaster so far. 
In 96. 

412
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,560
It was even more difficult than 
95. 

413
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,720
They ran into each other in the 
very first race, didn't they? 

414
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,880
Donning and Steve Robertson and 
Paul Radisson, that was a 

415
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,240
classic TV moment. 
But let's talk about Steve 

416
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:19,760
Robertson. 
He was the reigning indie lights

417
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,840
champion, you know, a real up 
and coming prospect coming over 

418
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,840
from America back to his native 
Britain, given the dreaded vote 

419
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,840
of confidence from Ford's 
director of European motorsport 

420
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,640
Martin Whitaker. 
Before this altered around 

421
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,080
Martin's words were Steve's got 
a job to do and we have to be 

422
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,240
supportive of him. 
It's not easy to adapt to front 

423
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,240
wheel drive touring cars and the
last thing we need to do is to 

424
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,560
be critical of him. 
We are behind him. 

425
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,560
Whitaker's words. 
We know Steve did last the 

426
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,680
season, Jacob, but a real 
struggle, as I say with the 

427
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,400
Indie Lights champion, it was 
not very nice to to see the 

428
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:54,400
struggles. 
Was it really? 

429
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,720
No. 
And it wasn't as if he didn't 

430
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,840
have the circuits, because he's 
had quite a good career in 

431
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,160
Formula Ford and then Formula 
Three with the Bowman team, and 

432
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,400
so we need the circuits. 
He went to America and 

433
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:11,080
absolutely blitzed indie lights 
and I think his prize then 

434
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:16,840
actually was funding towards 
IndyCar Drive, but he chose to 

435
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,120
try and make a career back in 
Europe with the Works Touring 

436
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:21,800
Club Dr instead. 
So the team obviously tested in 

437
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,520
pre season so they knew what he 
could do. 

438
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,120
They weren't going to sign a 
dud. 

439
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:32,920
So you just didn't gel with it. 
But as you say, that incident of

440
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,600
Dinington basically summed up 
the season. 

441
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,840
It was just that if there's one 
person not to hit, it's probably

442
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,760
a teammate, probably not in the 
first race and probably not on 

443
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,040
live TV. 
So it didn't go down too well. 

444
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,280
He didn't write a motor sport 
afterwards, though. 

445
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,800
He had to pretty much tell a 
career and probably I'd say out 

446
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,600
of anybody in touring cars, he's
probably the most successful out

447
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:02,640
of it for managing Kimi 
Raikkonen to Formula One and 

448
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:07,200
beyond. 
So, So yeah, I think, I think 

449
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,840
once the driving days were over,
he he engaged a different gear 

450
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,280
and took on a lot more motor 
sport than anybody else. 

451
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,520
Yeah, and, and to be fair as 
well, Alex, to Steve, when they 

452
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,000
had that infamous Donnington 
collision, Robertson was 

453
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:22,800
actually running in front of 
Radisson, wasn't he? 

454
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,040
When he spun? 
And then Paul had nowhere to go,

455
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,200
but he was in front of it. 
That's right, because Paul I 

456
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:32,680
think had a bit of a set to with
smoking Joe in the because it 

457
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:33,920
was the Grand Prix loop wasn't 
there. 

458
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,560
I think going into the the loop 
the GP. 

459
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,560
Yes, yeah, he. 
Had a bit of a run in with 

460
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,200
Smoking Joe and he was 
recovering. 

461
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:48,400
But yeah, it's just, it's a 
very, very, very big example of 

462
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,720
that, how terrible that year was
to Ford. 

463
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,600
It really was. 
I mean, you know, let's not 

464
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,280
forget that car was an absolute 
dog. 

465
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,960
And not only that, and I'm not 
saying I'm not saying anything 

466
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,880
bad about W Surrey Racing, but 
it was their first year of 

467
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,080
running a touring car and 
they've been handed this dud and

468
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,600
they're probably just thinking, 
what have we got to do with this

469
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,400
sort of thing? 
You know, and Radisic struggled 

470
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,960
in that car as well, and he's a 
double world champion. 

471
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,000
So, you know, you've got to give
Robertson his dues that yeah, he

472
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,200
struggled, but his very, very 
illustrious teammate also 

473
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,560
struggled. 
Yeah, with the benefit of 

474
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,800
hindsight, just to go back to 
what you said, Jacob, you know, 

475
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,360
having turned down an IndyCar 
drive, you know, with the 

476
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:32,720
benefit of hindsight, you would 
not have picked it's a 96 

477
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,040
Monday. 
But he didn't know that, did he 

478
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,600
at the time. 
So poor Steve Robertson and Paul

479
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,720
Relisic and Dick Bennett and 
everyone else there. 

480
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,960
WSR just to complete the 
housekeeping then before we get 

481
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,400
onto the track action, Matt Neil
was actually forced to miss this

482
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,520
Alton round after a viral 
infection that threatened to 

483
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,840
force him to miss the following 
meeting at Snetterton as well. 

484
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,920
Obviously he was in a Ford 
Mondeo at this point before a 

485
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,000
Nissan Primero. 
Halfway through the next season.

486
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,680
Neil initially suspected of 
having meningitis following his 

487
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,760
admission to a Jersey hospital 
but the disease was ruled out 

488
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,720
thankfully after a series of 
tests for Matt. 

489
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,840
But Alex, a real worry there for
the Neil family and dynamics. 

490
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,320
Obviously only one driver in the
team and not very nice time for 

491
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:15,600
Matt. 
Yeah, awful. 

492
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,280
I mean, yeah, that must be a 
real worry. 

493
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,760
And thankfully, as you said, it 
wasn't meningitis. 

494
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,520
But yeah, viral infections 
really aren't very nice. 

495
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,360
And thankfully he was back for 
the next meeting. 

496
00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:30,360
But this did also mean that, as 
you say, they were what they 

497
00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:33,200
were down to 1 car. 
And it meant that Rob Gravitt, 

498
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:38,120
who was Matt's teammate in 96, 
was able to run the 96 Mondeo 

499
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:41,200
that Matt had been driving so 
far that season. 

500
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,440
And I think Rob probably wished 
he hadn't bothered because he 

501
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,440
was basically saying it doesn't 
go in a straight line. 

502
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,080
That Mondeo in 96 was was a very
poor car as well The the 

503
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,480
Dynamics Mondeo. 
And as Matt told us when he was 

504
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,360
on the podcast, he got out of 
the car and kissed the floor 

505
00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:02,960
when he didn't have to drive 
that thing again. 

506
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:09,360
So yeah. 
Qualifying took place in mixed 

507
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:13,080
conditions, as both sessions saw
constantly changing levels of 

508
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,040
standing water, at times barely 
intermediate conditions and at 

509
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,240
others bordering on a full 
aquaplane situation. 

510
00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:24,080
Yet both were dominated with 
almost effortless authority by 

511
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,480
the points leader Frank Beeler 
and the four wheel drive Audi 

512
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,520
A4, which as we've already 
discussed, was newly burdened 

513
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,640
with those extra 30 kilos on 
board. 

514
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,400
To put it into perspective, Joe 
Winklehox BMW was the closest 

515
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,000
guy to Beeler, but the 93 
champion went third in session 1

516
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,040
and improved to 2nd in session 2
using Michelin's harder compound

517
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,760
wet tyre. 
But get this, the gap to Beeler 

518
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,720
told the true story. 1.2 seconds
in the first session and just 

519
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,160
shy of a second in the second 
session. 

520
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:58,720
Villa, ever cautious, said We 
were lucky with the weather but 

521
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,600
I've got to say that Dunlop did 
a fantastic job with his new wet

522
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,000
compound. 
Winkle Hawk is excellent in the 

523
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,400
rain but the new tyre was worth 
2 seconds, he reckons. 

524
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,320
If it's wet, are we happy? 
If it's dry, well at least I'm 

525
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,040
on the front row. 
Jacob. 

526
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,680
I guess in conditions like that 
4 wheel drive at Alton Park with

527
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,360
his ups and downs, it was always
going to be a bit of a case of 

528
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:25,280
Audi domination wasn't it? 
100%, I mean, one of the best 

529
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,000
touring car drivers in the 
world, probably one of the best 

530
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,520
people never to race in Formula 
One. 

531
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,120
Multiple. 
The one winner after that, I 

532
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:38,120
mean it was the perfect 
combination, best car, best 

533
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,360
traction, best tyres and 
probably one of the best teams 

534
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:47,600
went by John Wickham. 
And then literally it was all 

535
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,520
all the ingredients to dominate 
really. 

536
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,400
And Binkliff's no fool though, 
he's won multiple one make 

537
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,760
series and lots of races before 
in everything he's raced in. 

538
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,080
So I think it just all came 
together. 

539
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,760
Fabila. 
Yeah, I mean, Alex, it was, it 

540
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,920
was pretty splendid, wasn't it, 
what he was doing, you know, 

541
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,120
coming straight out and winning 
his first race and all the rest 

542
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,560
of it, well, dominating him. 
And he went both of his first 

543
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:11,840
two races at Donnington, didn't 
he? 

544
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,880
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I mean, and and let's also not 

545
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,240
forget that not only was that 
car quick, it was bulletproof. 

546
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,680
It just did not break down. 
In fact, in his first year, it 

547
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,600
didn't break down at all. 
He finished every race apart 

548
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,560
from and if there was any non 
finishes, it was not not 

549
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,400
mechanical. 
He was it was the as Jacob said,

550
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,320
it was the perfect combination 
almost you had the top line 

551
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,160
driver, the top car. 
It's if the top super tour of 

552
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,480
the time. 
Yeah, it's and and the 

553
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,160
conditions that suit those cars 
so perfectly as well. 

554
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,920
You know, it's very rarely do 
you have qualifying times where 

555
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:55,240
in any sort of touring car event
where first is is a second over 

556
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,120
a second ahead of the next 
person. 

557
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,760
But that just shows what a 
special driver and a special car

558
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,600
combination it was. 
Winkle Hock bed In the meantime 

559
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,720
in the BMW, he was content with 
his efforts. 

560
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,840
I've got to be happy with my 
positions, he said. 

561
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,240
Alton's really slippery when wet
so you need good traction. 

562
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,360
It took a few laps to heat up my
tyres but after that I could 

563
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,800
stay out. 
Looking for a Time B list team 

564
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,240
mate John Binkliff. 
Jacob just mentioned him. 

565
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,600
Took second in the first 
session, briefly holding pole 

566
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,480
early on, but he slipped to an 
unrepresented 4th in session 2 

567
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,600
after switching the car to full 
dry settings. 

568
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,200
Binkliff saying it means 
different springs, different 

569
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,480
gears to hold 9 yards. 
I had big understeer, but I 

570
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,760
couldn't really compensate 
because of the gearing. 

571
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,240
Still, it's all part of the 
learning curve. 

572
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,280
Best of the front wheel drive 
runners was Ricard Rydell's 

573
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,000
Volvo, 4th in session one and 
3rd in session 2. 

574
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,680
And that left the Swede far 
happier than he'd been at a damp

575
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,000
Silverstone a week earlier, 
Rydell said. 

576
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,800
I'm a lot happier with the 
balance now. 

577
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,720
It's not perfect, but it's 
closer to what it should be. 

578
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,120
And he set both of his times on 
wets but felt the closing 

579
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,440
minutes of the second session 
made intermediates A viable 

580
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,240
option. 
And he continued by saying in 

581
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,800
the first session there was 
never really a dry line, but in 

582
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,360
the second I put it 5050 for 
intermediates. 

583
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,480
Elsewhere, attempts by Renault's
Allan Menu to challenge Rydell 

584
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,240
were hindered by his choice of 
soft wets in session one, the 

585
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,840
harder set merely buying him 
more laps to find the time, and 

586
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,080
also hindered by oil dropped, 
would you believe, by his own 

587
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,880
teammate Will Hoy's engine. 
In session 2, Menu began on 

588
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,880
inters, followed by Winklehock's
lead by switching to wets and 

589
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,880
then gambored on an inter wet 
mix for the final few minutes 

590
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,120
only to be caught out by the 
chequered flag. 

591
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,320
So the result was 6th for him 
and then 5th for the two races. 

592
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,360
Alex must have been a little bit
frustrating for Alan. 

593
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,840
So near, yet so far. 
Yeah, and let's not forget Alan 

594
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,680
was a, was an expert at at Alton
Park. 

595
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:59,680
He won a lot of races during. 
In fact, there was, I'm sure I 

596
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,680
read a stat that he won at least
one or two races every year he 

597
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,840
was at Renault, apart from 
obviously the first year with 

598
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,840
the with the 19. 
So every year he raced a Laguna 

599
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,040
there he won at least once. 
So he was a bit of a bit of an 

600
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,800
Alton Bark specialist as well. 
So for him to be 6th and 5th, 

601
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,800
yeah, it's, it's just a bit of 
bad luck really, I guess. 

602
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,200
And when you've got conditions 
like that, that's always going 

603
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:24,680
to happen. 
You're going to get some people 

604
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,720
who just don't quite luck in and
isn't quite full right for them.

605
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,520
And then you'll get others that 
just get that bit of bit of 

606
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,240
extra luck and they get their 
bounce. 

607
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,240
But yeah, it made for it. 
Would make for an interesting 

608
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,320
race, I guess, with a bit of a 
shovel upgrade like that. 

609
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,400
But yeah, I still can't get over
Beeler's. 

610
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,360
It's just incredible, isn't it? 
Yeah. 

611
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,320
I mean, what was the feeling at 
the time, Jacob? 

612
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,920
Were people surprised by how 
dominant Beeler was, or was this

613
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,480
becoming, you know, the norm by 
this point? 

614
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,360
I think it was pretty much the 
norm and they say the 

615
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,280
conditions, they'd already got 
the 30 kilos by Alton Park. 

616
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,440
So the fact that it was even 
that much quicker than the rest 

617
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,520
of the pack on that day probably
accept everybody even more. 

618
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,880
Yeah, it it probably didn't help
their cause. 

619
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,080
Yeah, there would not have been 
a lot of happy faces on the 

620
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,400
Saturday night in the paddock. 
All right, well, we've had the 

621
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,000
news, we've had qualifying. 
This is where the carnage really

622
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:23,560
starts. 
Let's get on to the races on 

623
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:30,280
Bank Holiday Monday at the 
lights, BTCC points leader Frank

624
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,880
Beeler made the perfect getaway,
leading his rookie teammate John

625
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,280
Bincliffe to form an early Audi 
1/2 with Winklehawk tucked in 

626
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,800
right behind in the BMW. 
But any opportunity for him to 

627
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,440
make early progress was halted 
almost immediately by the now 

628
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,720
familiar appearance of the BTCC 
safety car. 

629
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,040
This time the Jaguar emerged to 
allow Marshalls to clear the 

630
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,920
debris from a start line shunt. 
Start line shunt at Alton Park. 

631
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,960
Would you believe it? 
The incident involved Roberto 

632
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,600
Revalia's BMW, Will Hoy's 
Renault, Paul Radisich is Ford 

633
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,200
and the list goes on. 
David Leslie's Honda and 

634
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,320
naturally 4 drivers meant four 
different interpretations of 

635
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,639
what happened, Leslie said. 
I was hit from both sides, but I

636
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:14,800
think Revalia helped Paul to 
turn around. 

637
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,400
Hoyt offered his take. 
I turned in a bit early for Old 

638
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,000
Hall, thanks to a little help. 
I saw Paul and next thing, Wham 

639
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,920
bam, thank you, ma'am. 
Radicitt counted. 

640
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,360
Revalia tried getting between me
and Leslie. 

641
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,440
I tried moving right and then I 
was slewing left and Revalia 

642
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,639
obviously saw it differently. 
Again, I was side by side with 

643
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,239
Leslie. 
Then he and Radicitt closed me 

644
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,199
like a sandwich. 
Guys, Jacob, starting with you, 

645
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,000
well, as we've already said, 
four drivers, 4 totally 

646
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,400
different opinions, but complete
carnage off the line. 

647
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,840
Yeah, I think it's a very 
typical Alton Park crash because

648
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,040
it's quite narrow there. 
And the line for Old Hall is you

649
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,520
need to be swinging in and get 
into the apex. 

650
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,600
And I think everybody just 
wanted to make the best start 

651
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,640
tunnel vision and the way they 
went that Alton Park start crash

652
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:06,600
still happens today yes, yes, 
but I don't think the quid quite

653
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,360
as side by side as what they 
were then. 

654
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,360
I think they're more spread out 
now. 

655
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,760
I can't believe we're a bit of a
blame for some shunts. 

656
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:17,080
That's. 
More. 

657
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,680
That's more. 
More The shocking thing about 

658
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,840
this? 
Yeah, I mean, Alex, this was a 

659
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,160
foretaste of what was to come at
Brands hats, isn't it? 

660
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,560
Just a few weeks later with 
Ravalia and Radissick. 

661
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:31,280
Oh. 
Gosh, yeah, of course I saw, 

662
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,960
I've showed you this, Greg. 
I saw a bit that they must have 

663
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,920
showed at the Toker End of 
Season Awards, where Barry 

664
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,640
Hinchcliffe put together a funny
sketch of about 10 minutes and 

665
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:51,040
they've got that piece of 
Roberto chasing after Paul all 

666
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:55,520
around the brand's paddock. 
And they just keep, I don't know

667
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,080
if it's Charlie Lamb or I don't 
know whose voice it is that they

668
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,560
keep repeating over Roberto, 
Roberto, Roberto, and they just 

669
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,240
keep playing it. 
It's very, very funny. 

670
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,560
But yeah, Roberto Rovalia is, 
yeah. 

671
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,280
I can't believe, as you say, he 
wouldn't get involved in 

672
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,360
something like that, would he? 
Yeah, I know. 

673
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,160
But in fact, I think the footage
you're talking about was Roberto

674
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,200
chasing after Rydell. 
It's Nettleton because. 

675
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,680
Sorry, yes, correct. 
Got evolved there as well. 

676
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,560
Correct. 
Sorry, yes, he had so many 

677
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,960
fights that year, but yeah. 
There was menu as well. 

678
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,120
Wasn't there a brand tax later 
in the year when he tried to 

679
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:29,960
block him? 
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

680
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:35,200
When he was without this, yeah. 
One thing after the other, Hoy 

681
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:36,280
as well. 
I mean, Alex, you've already 

682
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,400
touched on this. 
Will Hoy was particularly 

683
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,440
annoyed as you can hear now in 
this interview. 

684
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,440
This is well-being caught by the
PHP cameras on his way back up 

685
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:49,560
the pit lane by foot as the 
marshals clear the wreckage from

686
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,520
the start straight. 
And Will's OK, but what 

687
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,040
incredibly bad luck. 
He made an absolutely blindingly

688
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,960
good start straight down the 
outside, cleaned up. 

689
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,600
Not his fault. 
Will Hoy is just one of this 

690
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,680
championship bad luck magnets. 
If it's going to happen, it 

691
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,560
seems always to have to will. 
Do you know who it was? 

692
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:10,960
No, I don't know. 
Just chip me into a wall. 

693
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:16,680
I can't believe it. 
Why are people so at a cracking 

694
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,120
start and then somebody just 
pushes me into the wall? 

695
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:30,200
Just not, can't believe it. 
Just sort of luck you need, 

696
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:31,880
isn't it? 
Poor old Will. 

697
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,400
At least Radisson Hoy managed to
travel a few yards. 

698
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,280
Vauxhall's James Thompson didn't
even get that far because of a 

699
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,080
leaking power steering system 
which sidelined him before the 

700
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,720
race had even begun. 
After the sighting lap, the 

701
00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:46,920
Yorkshiremen sprinted off in 
search of the team's green tank 

702
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:51,040
tops, hoping to pad out his seat
back and wrestle the Vector 

703
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,200
around with a bent arm manual 
steering technique. 

704
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,200
But instead the Vector was 
wheeled off the grid for 

705
00:37:57,240 --> 00:38:00,320
repairs. 
Jacob, difficult times for four.

706
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:01,960
Difficult times for Vauxhall as 
well. 

707
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,360
Really struggling weren't they, 
to get to grips with the Vectra 

708
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,600
after winning the Championship 
and so much success with John 

709
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,760
Clement in particular the 
previous year? 

710
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,240
Yeah, 100%. 
I mean, RML are famed for their 

711
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:19,480
design and development of a car.
And for some reason the Vexor 

712
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,760
just wouldn't work. 
I mean, having listened to John 

713
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:28,160
Cohen's podcast, they said they 
got it out of the truck and they

714
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,120
didn't touch it. 
It was that good. 

715
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,120
So to come into to design and 
build their own car, which just 

716
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,800
didn't work was bizarre. 
And I think they had one win 

717
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,760
that year later in the year with
James Thompson and that was it. 

718
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,760
But I don't know what it was 
about the Vectra because AAA had

719
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,840
all the budget in the world 
thrown at them to develop a 

720
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,200
brand new Vectra later on and 
Super Touring and that con never

721
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:58,440
worked either. 
So maybe it's just cursed, but 

722
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,240
it's just bizarre how you can 
dominate the championship and 

723
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:04,480
then be an also around the 
following year. 

724
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,760
Yeah, and not like you say, 
didn't even win a race. 

725
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,040
It was Thompson, wasn't it? 
You had their win in 96 at 

726
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,160
Snetterter. 
Al, I remember you've touched on

727
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,840
this in recent episodes. 
The Opal Vectra went a lot 

728
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:17,200
better, didn't it, on the 
continent. 

729
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:18,960
Is that because the circuits are
so different? 

730
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,960
Maybe. 
There's, there's the talk, there

731
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,080
was a talk all the way through 
97 that it was the aerodynamics 

732
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,200
that, that, that they were 
suited better to the, to the 

733
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,880
European tracks rather than the 
British circuits. 

734
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:34,480
And they are very different, the
British tracks. 

735
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,760
Are a lot different than the. 
European tracks, but you look at

736
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,440
98 where they put the new Eras 
package on and it was probably 

737
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:45,520
the strongest apart from 
actually no 2000, the strongest 

738
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,960
victor John had then he won two 
races, didn't he? 

739
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,880
And and Derek won up at 
Knockhill. 

740
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,120
So they won three races that 
year, but it was never, never a 

741
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,160
title challenger like the 
Cavalier was. 

742
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,160
In fact, I remember we did a 
piece with Jerry Hughes a few 

743
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:03,520
years ago where he worked with 
AAA in 96 before he moved on to 

744
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,160
Renault and he said it was 
something to do with the rear of

745
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,000
the car. 
It just the design of the car 

746
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,360
just was not as suitable for a 
touring car. 

747
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,720
That maybe that you know, the 
cars he went to work on 

748
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,280
subsequently like the Laguna and
the Mondeo because he moved to 

749
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,720
Pro Drive. 
It was just. 

750
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:25,840
Not super. 
There were too many compromises 

751
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,120
that had to be made because of 
the because at the end of the 

752
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:30,280
day, you're giving a shell, 
aren't you? 

753
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,040
You're giving the car. 
This is what the vector is. 

754
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,880
You can't make too many changes 
to that because it's got to 

755
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,400
represent the road car. 
And ironically, they don't look 

756
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:40,880
that much different to a 
Cavalier. 

757
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,840
In fact, it was slated for not 
being enough of an upgrade. 

758
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,520
Was it when, you know, infamous 
Jeremy Clarkson review on Top 

759
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,080
Gear where he said it's a 
Cavalier with new wing mirrors? 

760
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,720
But I don't know. 
It's just yeah, it just never 

761
00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:58,840
clicked at it. 
And if RML couldn't do it, they 

762
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,400
were a crack touring car outfit.
Sorry, crack touring car outfit.

763
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,040
If RML couldn't do it and then 
AAA couldn't do it, who were 

764
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,840
another super outfit, then I 
guess you've got to say that it 

765
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,680
was just a cursed car that was 
never going to, was never 

766
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:20,320
destined to win regularly. 
Well, yeah, indeed, our producer

767
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:21,680
Matt Walker did the stats, 
didn't he? 

768
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,840
And worked out that RML as a 
team, not a manufacturer but a 

769
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,920
team, won more races than any 
other team in the whole of this 

770
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,280
super tearing era between 91 and
2000. 

771
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:32,800
Which is pretty impressive isn't
it? 

772
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,360
Obviously a lot with Nissan as 
well. 

773
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,240
Back on track that at alternate 
96 the safety car had peeled off

774
00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:40,400
after just one lapse of great 
work from the Marshalls. 

775
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,120
Winkle Hawk went side by side 
with Bin Cliff on the drag to 

776
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,200
Old Hall and was through and 
into second out of the corner 

777
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,000
and already visibly closing in 
on Beela as the pack rounded 

778
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,400
cascades. 
Fink could have said he went 

779
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,040
around me like he'd hit the 
nitrous oxide with Winklehawk 

780
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,480
shooting through Alex. 
Decent restart from the German 

781
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:00,840
Winklehawk to say the very 
least. 

782
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,400
It was a very good restart, but 
you could tell that that BMW was

783
00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:09,440
flying compared to the Odeon. 
I can already hear the, the, the

784
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,400
whales in the, the, the, the 
backgrounds. 

785
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,960
Oh, it's 30 kilogrammes. 
It's too, too heavy now. 

786
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,600
And yeah, you see with all this 
equalisation goes, there's 

787
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,080
never, nobody's ever going to be
happy. 

788
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,640
But yeah, great restart from 
smoking Joe. 

789
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:26,320
And he, there was something 
about him in 96, he really was 

790
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,960
just really exciting to watch. 
He was either winning and 

791
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,520
superbly quick or he was 
throwing off. 

792
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,120
There was no in between. 
With Joe that year, it was like,

793
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,600
yeah, it was, it was like he was
a different character. 

794
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,840
He was, especially in that first
half of the year, he was really 

795
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:43,480
quick and this was another 
example of it. 

796
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,480
Yeah, and some unbelievable 
qualifying performances as well.

797
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,040
Weren't there, If you've said 
before, Alex, on this podcast in

798
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:51,040
that car that. 
Yeah. 

799
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,080
And, and, and let's just, let's 
just have a little nod of that 

800
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,480
in the tip of the hat and nod of
the head to the sound of that 

801
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,680
BMW. 
Yes, yes, it's one of my 

802
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,040
favourite sounds in motorsport 
to this day. 

803
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,640
Brilliant sounding BMW then into
the Nickerbrook chicane. 

804
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,240
Winklehawk then carried enough 
extra momentum to slice up the 

805
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:14,680
inside of Beeler's Audi with a 
decisive move so he was up into 

806
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,720
the lead and the BMW driver was 
then able to manage the gap 

807
00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:21,560
exactly as he'd wished. 
And it stood at just over 5 

808
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,880
seconds when the shortened race 
reached its conclusion, which 

809
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,280
we'll come to in a moment. 
It could have easily been a much

810
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,320
bigger gap though, couldn't it? 
Jacob had just felt as though 

811
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,240
the BMW was a different beast in
the dry. 

812
00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:36,960
I think so, yeah. 
And smoking Joe always loved 

813
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,560
Alton Park. 
He's literally, he went on and 

814
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,000
on and on about it, how it was a
Mini Nurburgring, like I 

815
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,560
mentioned before, it was just, I
don't know, his playground. 

816
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,920
And the noise of that car was 
second to none. 

817
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:50,960
I remember sneaking there at a 
test day. 

818
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,960
I borrowed, I think must be in A
levels. 

819
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,920
So I borrowed my dad's car 
during the day and went to watch

820
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,080
some testing there and got back 
for the end of school. 

821
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,600
So it looked like I'd never been
away, but there's some noises 

822
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,160
that caused testing. 
It was, it was Winkle Lock and I

823
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:09,800
think so for then it was 
unbelievable. 

824
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:15,000
But yeah, if there was a man to 
occupancy drive for your life on

825
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,960
a flat out race, Smoking Joe 
would have to be right up there,

826
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,000
especially when he could, when 
he'd like the red rag to the 

827
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:23,080
ball with him. 
He was gone. 

828
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,080
I've got to say, did you did you
borrow your dad's car or did you

829
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:27,120
steal your dad's car? 
I just. 

830
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,720
Got I did borrow it so 
technically I was allowed to use

831
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:31,360
it to go to school. 
OK, Fair it out. 

832
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:32,000
Fair it out. 
Fair. 

833
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:37,160
It out that's good it was fine 
so yeah it was OK that's OK I'm 

834
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,440
fairly sure that one day I was 
also coming up from Alton Park 

835
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,000
and he was driving the other way
in his works van or didn't twig 

836
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:45,440
that his own car was going the 
other way I. 

837
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:47,880
Really. 
Really. 

838
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,160
Which was probably a bit more of
a yeah, a bit more of a moment 

839
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,840
for me than him. 
He could have called the police,

840
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,160
that could have been stolen. 
OK, yeah, that would have been a

841
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,680
good one. 
John bin Kiffin. 

842
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,560
He was running in 3rd place and 
it was a tribute to the hard 

843
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,240
work of the Audi Sport UK 
mechanics because he'd had an 

844
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:09,000
off at Lodge during the damp 
morning warm up. 

845
00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:12,080
The car had suffered A 
substantial left rear bit of 

846
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,960
damage in that and although it 
was patched up, it crabbed its 

847
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,840
way around the formation lapse 
and required some last minute 

848
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,280
retracking work on the grid. 
So great job from ALDI. 

849
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,840
Even so, still strong enough to 
keep the advancing Rydell. 

850
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:29,400
It is Volvo at Bay and later we 
heard the Swede saying there 

851
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,280
were two places I might have 
been able to pass him, 

852
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,440
Nickerbrook or Lodge. 
Lodge obviously the last proper 

853
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,040
corner, the breaking zone there 
at the end of the lap. 

854
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,880
He could take the inside line, 
close the door and break later. 

855
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,960
It was impossible. 
Alex, impressive turn around 

856
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,480
from the warm up Shun for 
Bincliffe and by the Audi 

857
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,560
mechanics you're going to say? 
Oh absolutely. 

858
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,960
Yeah, that car was I don't think
there's a corner that was 

859
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,040
straight on it. 
So yeah, very, very, very 

860
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,120
impressive turn around. 
But there's Rydell there. 

861
00:45:56,120 --> 00:46:00,120
That's another one of the Audi 
trademarks of the four wheel 

862
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,720
drive. 
The the the benefit of it is the

863
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:08,440
braking later as well. 
So you know it, as we're 

864
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,240
discovering, as I've already 
mentioned once, that the Bing 

865
00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:14,600
Cliff held what then 
subsequently would become known 

866
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,240
as a trolley training F1. 
Well, there was a Binkliff train

867
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:23,520
here because he was able to to 
to do things that you probably 

868
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,800
wouldn't be able to do in a 
front wheel drive car, which is 

869
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,440
in fairness, that's the tools 
he's got. 

870
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,360
He's it's impressive that you 
can do that. 

871
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,280
But yeah, impressive from the 
Audi Sport boys as well, 

872
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,480
because, yeah, that car was very
second hand. 

873
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,280
You don't have a small crash at 
that point of the circuit, do 

874
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:43,920
you? 
The, the, I think of all the, 

875
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,840
all the big shunts that have 
happened at that point of the 

876
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,240
circuit over the years, they've 
always ended up in, you know, 

877
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,000
big messes with, with lots of 
damage. 

878
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:54,640
And and this one was no 
different. 

879
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,280
Russell Spencer's was pretty bad
wasn't it in 99? 

880
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,360
Gosh, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 
that. 

881
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,200
Was at the top of that barrier. 
That was a yeah. 

882
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:04,680
That was a horrible one, 
actually, yeah. 

883
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,600
Behind Rydell, Alan Menus 
Renault and Kelvin Bert's Volvo 

884
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,560
formed a tightly packed front 
wheel drive trio, with Rivalia 

885
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:14,960
eventually latching onto the 
group as well. 

886
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,280
Rivalia said. 
I didn't want to get too close 

887
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,120
because it looked like there was
going to be some trouble. 

888
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,840
A bit rich, you have to say, 
coming from Rivalia. 

889
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:26,080
By lap 7, Bert was making 
increasingly bold looks at the 

890
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,560
inside of Menus, Renault into 
the fast left-hander at 

891
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,440
Cascades, and on lap 11 it 
looked as though his moment had 

892
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,320
finally arrived. 
Jacob, just before we get to the

893
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,400
real drama. 
Great action, wasn't it, in the 

894
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,000
midfield. 
Yeah, brilliant. 

895
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,080
It was some Super Touring car 
races were a little bit 

896
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,520
processional, but when you got a
proper feisty one, the racing 

897
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:49,640
was second to none. 
Which is why I think there's 

898
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:53,560
such love for it now still, 
because when you had some people

899
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,080
really going at it, they really 
went at it. 

900
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,240
It was just phenomenal. 
A menu said. 

901
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,680
Ricard slid wide out of Old 
Hall. 

902
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:02,960
That's the course, the first 
corner. 

903
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,120
Then he went right to cover the 
inside. 

904
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:09,560
I move left and as I did there 
was Kelvin Bang. 

905
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,480
I had no idea he was there. 
We touched just before the Crest

906
00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:17,120
and I guess he was probably 
halfway alongside, but my mirror

907
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:22,360
was bent in but speared off on 
the fast downhill run towards 

908
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,320
Cascades, suffering exactly the 
kind of accident that had long 

909
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,800
been considered of the Super 
Touring Achilles heel, which was

910
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:34,360
high speed and a side on impact.
Fortunately it was the passenger

911
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:38,600
side of the Volvo 850 that 
struck the jutting knuckle of 

912
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,680
the earth bank, leaving Burke 
and cursed. 

913
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,520
But otherwise would you believe,
unharmed have the car gone in 

914
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,560
driver side first? 
The consequences hardly bear 

915
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,840
thinking about, especially given
the similar accidents that claim

916
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,840
the lives, as Alex said before, 
of Greg Hansford and Keith 

917
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:59,360
O'door the previous year. 
Alex, this was a really, really 

918
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,960
horrible moment. 
And, you know, sometimes we love

919
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,960
Super Touring and touring cars 
in general now, don't we? 

920
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,560
Because of the, you know, crash,
bang, wallop sort of nature of 

921
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:08,960
the racing. 
And it can be very funny. 

922
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,600
But this was very, very serious.
Yeah, yeah. 

923
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:16,440
I mean, as you say that the 
crash, bang, wallop, bit of 

924
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:21,040
nudging here and there was the 
the selling point almost of the 

925
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:22,720
championship. 
It's what got it's what got me 

926
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:24,200
into the championship. 
I'm not going to lie. 

927
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,080
You know, I like the hustle and 
bustle. 

928
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:30,680
I like the fact that it was the 
cars that your mum or dad drove,

929
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,120
you know, parked on the driveway
as as the story goes, that's 

930
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,120
what, you know, everyone 
describes it as, isn't it? 

931
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,480
But that's the problem with 
those sorts of cars is that the 

932
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,440
weak point is very much that 
that that side impact. 

933
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:50,440
And the FIA had done a lot of 
work, but I still don't think, 

934
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,320
you know, thankfully we're not 
discussing it. 

935
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,080
And, and, and it wasn't this 
way, but I, I tried to think 

936
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,400
what it would have been like had
it been the driver side. 

937
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,760
I think we're talking a very 
different incident at that 

938
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,200
point. 
Yeah, it was just an awful, 

939
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,240
awful accident. 
And I have to say I felt really 

940
00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:14,480
sorry for Alan because, yeah, he
he, you know, again. 

941
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:19,160
And the symptom of this type of 
racing was that the wing mirrors

942
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,000
very quickly either fell off or 
were bent in. 

943
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,800
You know, we, John, John and 
Steve talk about that with 

944
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:32,000
Silverstone 92, where John's 
mirror came off when he was 

945
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:33,560
sideways and up in the middle of
the air. 

946
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,760
And it subsequently meant that 
he did had he had no idea that 

947
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,920
Steve was still there. 
And, and he sounds very similar 

948
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,560
sort of thing here. 
He Alan, didn't realise that 

949
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:44,320
Kelvin had snuck up alongside 
him. 

950
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,880
And I felt really sorry for Alan
because he must have felt awful 

951
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,800
obviously as well that that such
a horrible incident occurred and

952
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:55,840
I still go cold now when I watch
it. 

953
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,520
I'll be honest with you. 
I've watched it obviously this 

954
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,080
week. 
Now was we're as we're preparing

955
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:05,560
for this, for this episode. 
And you know, even when you know

956
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,960
that, you know, the the Kelvin 
ultimately comes to no harm. 

957
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,800
I know he was concussed but made
a full recovery, it's still just

958
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:15,120
sort of takes your breath away a
little bit. 

959
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,640
When you watch it, you think, 
you sort of wince and you just 

960
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:22,360
think how how was he survived 
that? 

961
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,640
Well, I mean, as Steve Ryder 
said, it was a sickening impact 

962
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,040
and the on board camera footage 
shows just how sudden the stock 

963
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,080
was as well, doesn't it? 
I mean, Alex, we're in a 

964
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:32,280
privileged position here, aren't
we? 

965
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,520
Because we've got and Jacob 
Ebury with us now. 

966
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,200
Jacob, you were on the scene, 
you were just a few metres away 

967
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,600
from the impact. 
Can you remember what the 

968
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,120
feeling was on, you know, the 
lead up to the event as it 

969
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:47,200
happened and the minutes that. 
Followed well, you could see 

970
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,160
that something was about to 
happen in general because the 

971
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,400
cars were all hustling about 
together. 

972
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,640
But the accident itself is 
really quick. 

973
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,640
You didn't expect a car to like 
fly off that way. 

974
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,520
But afterwards it's more the 
more the silence of all the 

975
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:06,680
people in the crowd you like, 
you don't tend to like listen to

976
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:08,800
what the commentators are saying
or bits and bobs. 

977
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:12,400
I think they realised the 
magnitude of it and basically 

978
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,920
just let everyone get on with 
what was going on. 

979
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,120
But there's a lot of shock in 
the crowd and being quite young 

980
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,960
it was quite a bit of a shock 
for us as well. 

981
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,840
But as you say, Calvin made a 
full recovery and he still works

982
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:32,000
in motorsport now, so see him 
about and everything so and to 

983
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:39,080
be back a few weeks later shows 
that whatever the FIA did and 

984
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,480
thankfully the impact was on the
other side to where he was sat 

985
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:48,120
to show how strong the cars 
were, which we tested. 

986
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,040
It's netted in two weeks later 
themselves. 

987
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,800
Accidents or accidents and the 
cause of accidents. 

988
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,040
Because it's an accident, nobody
meant for it to happen. 

989
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:59,720
And luckily the result was OK in
the end. 

990
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,000
I should imagine. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

991
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:05,760
And the, the, The funny thing 
you mentioned that is that 

992
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:12,400
Kelvin's stand in was going to 
be Jamie Davis and just before 

993
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:17,160
in the in and in testing prior 
to the the race at the next race

994
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,680
that Kelvin obviously was not 
going to be there for Jamie 

995
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:23,920
Davis wrote off an 850 in a big 
accident as well. 

996
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:29,320
So Volvo, Volvo lost two had two
very big shunts at that point 

997
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,400
and Ricard raced himself at the 
at the at the following meeting 

998
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,840
because Davis had already 
totalled the other car. 

999
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,920
But yeah, I mean, I've got for 
this. 

1000
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,840
So for our Padder club members, 
they might actually be able to 

1001
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,760
see this. 
I'm going to hold up the 

1002
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:50,960
addition of Autosport from the 
following event now, I believe. 

1003
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:52,600
Sorry, I'm blocking my mouth 
here. 

1004
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:54,800
So you might. 
Oh, that's good, Carrie, we can 

1005
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:55,840
hear you. 
We can hear you. 

1006
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:00,560
It's. 
It's this picture is yours, 

1007
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,880
Jacob from Autosport? 
It is. 

1008
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,640
I've not actually seen that for 
years. 

1009
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:06,240
So. 
That's so cool, yes. 

1010
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:10,240
So in the days pre digital I 
obviously took that photo 

1011
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:11,640
without realising what was on 
the film. 

1012
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:16,240
So of course fairly sure I got 
the crash, but until it got 

1013
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,440
developed I had no idea I'd got 
the crash. 

1014
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,240
So it's such a great shot as 
well. 

1015
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,480
Just show us that again, Alex. 
I'll just describe. 

1016
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:26,320
What we can see for. 
Those who can't see the video, 

1017
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,800
so we've seen the Volvo airborne
tyres flying all over the place 

1018
00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:33,920
menu and Rydell going by in the 
foreground and even in the 

1019
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,760
absolute foreground. 
Jacob, we've got a photographer 

1020
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:38,920
who seems to be not capturing 
the moment. 

1021
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:40,520
What's the story? 
Well, I think he's having a 

1022
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,440
favourite moment. 
I don't know who it is, but I 

1023
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,360
think they're. 
Changing the film or changing 

1024
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,960
the lens, which is probably not 
the best time to be doing that. 

1025
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:49,880
Yeah, but unbelievable, Alex, 
you can. 

1026
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:51,280
Put it down now. 
I'm quite enjoying looking at 

1027
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:52,920
the photo, not having to look at
your face. 

1028
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:56,520
But Alex is back in vision for 
those of you who were listening 

1029
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:58,480
to this. 
But no, thank goodness. 

1030
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,200
I was just thinking, you know as
well, while we were chatting, I 

1031
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:05,960
think it was 2007 in the Porsche
Supercut, but had an enormous 

1032
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,960
shunt at Thruxton and I went 
rolled over the barrier coming 

1033
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:11,560
out of the complex. 
Do you remember that one? 

1034
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:13,320
Yeah, another reading of the 
Escape. 

1035
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,120
Yes, I'd forgotten about it. 
I literally. 

1036
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,440
Just thought about of Campbell. 
Cobb and Seagrove. 

1037
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:20,160
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, he got clean. 

1038
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,720
His defence he got. 
A touch that same day again of. 

1039
00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:24,160
Somebody else. 
Did he? 

1040
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:25,840
Yeah. 
Picked him, didn't it? 

1041
00:55:26,240 --> 00:55:29,400
Yeah. 
Yeah, God, I forgot that was 

1042
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,280
him. 
Ended up on the service Rd the. 

1043
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,800
Marshalls was it was a bit like 
the key third door crash, wasn't

1044
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:36,240
it? 
At Donnington at the bottom of 

1045
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:38,240
the pill? 
Yeah, yeah, the old hairpin. 

1046
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:40,720
Oh well. 
Anyway, as we know. 

1047
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:43,400
Kelvin did make a full recovery 
thank goodness, and it was back 

1048
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,760
racing just a few races later. 
Safety car of course came out at

1049
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,880
this point, starting on lap 12 
at Alton Park, but it was 

1050
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,640
becoming obvious that this was a
race ending incident and on the 

1051
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,520
second safety car lap the red 
flag came out all around the 

1052
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:59,760
track in Cheshire Force Majeure.
Of course results were declared 

1053
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,400
for 10 laps of racing, so Winkle
Hock had won in the BMW ahead of

1054
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,200
the two outers of Beeler and 
Binkliff. 

1055
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,760
But not surprisingly, with the 
memories of odour and the Avis 

1056
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:12,200
tragedy still freshen his mind, 
Winkle Hock was noticeably 

1057
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:16,200
subdued after claiming his 
fourth Olson Park victory in the

1058
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:20,480
days opening shortened race. 
Even so, it was another vintage 

1059
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,520
smoke in gaol performance, the 
kind the 93 champion seems able 

1060
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:28,080
to summon up at will whenever he
returns to the Cheshire track. 

1061
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,920
It really was vintage Winkle 
Hawk Alex Clark. 

1062
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:32,400
I mean, he just loved the place,
didn't he? 

1063
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,280
Yeah, and I think it's important
to note that about. 

1064
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:39,240
About Keith Adore as well he had
he had finished second behind 

1065
00:56:39,240 --> 00:56:43,640
our door at Arvis in the first 
race when Keith was killed and 

1066
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:48,720
then won the second race the the
the Keith was killed in. 

1067
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,520
And yeah, it must have, it must 
have brought back so many 

1068
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:57,480
memories of of that because a 
similar incident, you know, that

1069
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,920
that we talked about the side 
impact, high speed side impacts.

1070
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,000
So yeah, I can understand why he
was not celebrating. 

1071
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:08,480
But classic vintage Winkle Hawk 
and also the Arvis incident. 

1072
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,080
Sorry to butt. 
In it was obviously Frank 

1073
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,200
Beeler, who unfortunately hit 
O'door, wasn't it? 

1074
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,520
So he was obviously thinking of 
this as well. 

1075
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,280
I'm sure, yeah, yeah, I'm sure 
yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1076
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:18,480
The. 
Awful. 

1077
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,880
Again, another awful accident 
that just. 

1078
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:27,040
Yeah, just you. 
You these things happen, it's an

1079
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:31,160
accident and yeah, they get out 
and they go out in the cars 

1080
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:32,920
knowing that these things could 
happen to them. 

1081
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:40,560
So, but still to see a colleague
lose their life and and most 

1082
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:44,800
likely a good friend because 
I've always thought that touring

1083
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,440
car Pandex have always been 
particularly friendly places. 

1084
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,040
A lot of the a lot of the 
drivers are good friends 

1085
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:51,520
together. 
They go play a lot of golf 

1086
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,880
together. 
They go and drink lots of wine 

1087
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:58,920
and have lots of meals together.
We've often heard tales of John 

1088
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,280
Cleland and Tim Harvey on the 
golf course and Ricardo Rydell 

1089
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:04,880
on the golf course. 
And I remember Craig Baird 

1090
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:08,320
telling me that Will Hoy looked 
after him so well off the track.

1091
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:12,600
So there was a real camaraderie 
around around the drivers and 

1092
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:14,880
generally speaking they all got 
on really well. 

1093
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:19,520
Apart from Revalia, yes, 
unfortunately the reason with 

1094
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:20,840
everyone. 
But no, no in all. 

1095
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:27,400
Seriousness to to see, yeah, to 
see a friend and a colleague in 

1096
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,920
an accident like that, even 
knowing if they had survived or 

1097
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:32,560
not. 
And I suppose at this point it 

1098
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,000
was probably still, there was 
still a lot of question marks. 

1099
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:38,680
So yeah, well, yeah, I was going
to ask actually, Jacob, how? 

1100
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,920
How soon? 
Was it until anyone got the word

1101
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:44,160
that Kelvin had survived and he 
was all right or relatively OK? 

1102
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,200
Well, I don't really know on the
day because. 

1103
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:51,680
Free Internet and stuff and free
electronic stuff. 

1104
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:55,880
There wasn't really that much 
news on the day, I don't think, 

1105
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,120
but it's a long time ago. 
My memory is not quite as best 

1106
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:02,080
as it could be. 
But no, in all seriousness, I 

1107
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:03,560
don't think anybody really knew 
on the day. 

1108
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,640
Yeah, I'm sure you're right. 
Yeah, once you get transported. 

1109
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,480
Away from the circuit I. 
Think it's very hard to get news

1110
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:15,600
back and in that period they're 
scaring a big, big escape. 

1111
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:20,120
Well, luckily the main drama had
passed, but we still had Race 2 

1112
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:26,080
ahead of us. 
Delayed both by the fallout from

1113
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,760
the opening race. 
And the usual Alton Park support

1114
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:32,480
race, Chaos Race 2 finally got 
underway later than scheduled, 

1115
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,960
but at least managed to run its 
full 16 lap distance. 

1116
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:40,040
Beeler converted pole into an 
immediate lead again, with Bint 

1117
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:44,120
Cliff slipping into second, so 
Winklehawk bogged down slightly 

1118
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,200
at the start. 
But by the time they reached the

1119
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:48,920
Nickelbrook chicane for the 
first time halfway around the 

1120
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:52,960
lap, the BMW was already 
attempting to replicate its Race

1121
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,960
One charge. 
Winklehawk dived down the inside

1122
00:59:56,040 --> 01:00:00,200
and spun, rejoining at the back 
with terminal splitter and 

1123
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:03,000
steering damage. 
And Winklehawk was absolutely 

1124
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,600
furious. 
He did not hold back about John 

1125
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:07,600
Binkleiff. 
He's an asshole. 

1126
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,520
Winklehawk said. 
He blocked me at every single 

1127
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:12,360
corner. 
And then when I got to nick a 

1128
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:14,920
brook, he closed the door. 
But this is the last time, I 

1129
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:16,600
promise you. 
I feel sorry for the rest of the

1130
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:19,040
field. 
Who got held up behind him? 

1131
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:21,720
A surprising outburst from 
Winkleheart. 

1132
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:23,360
Was it deserved, Alex? 
It was. 

1133
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:26,520
It was very, very dramatic, very
vocal. 

1134
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:27,880
Have a cigarette joke. 
Come on. 

1135
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:30,880
Wow. 
Yeah. 

1136
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:35,400
I mean, very unlike Joe. 
I mean, I don't profess to know 

1137
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:39,680
him particularly, but he he 
always seemed to be the the 

1138
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,840
ultimate gentleman whenever I 
was in his presence. 

1139
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:49,040
Yeah, I've I was very surprised 
to say that It would have been 

1140
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:50,800
funnier with the German accent, 
but I wasn't gonna. 

1141
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:52,840
Attempt it. 
No, no, that's probably for the 

1142
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,880
best. 
Yeah, probably, yeah, but yeah, 

1143
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:58,840
very young and and not only the 
sort of the bit that he says or 

1144
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:00,560
he's an asshole, it's the whole 
thing. 

1145
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:02,720
Afterwards he blocked me this. 
Yes. 

1146
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,480
I close the door. 
It's the last time this is 

1147
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:07,240
sorry. 
Sorry for everyone else. 

1148
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:09,280
You got help and that's. 
So bitter, isn't it? 

1149
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:12,560
It's funny. 
But yeah, I mean, Joe obviously 

1150
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:16,400
felt he had the quickest car and
wanted to get the job done as 

1151
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:20,520
quick as possible. 
And as we've sort of already 

1152
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,400
alluded to, these Audis could be
hard to pass. 

1153
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:27,720
So I don't know, maybe it was 
just, again, it was just thinker

1154
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:33,680
Hog being possibly very quick, 
but also a bit a bit too eager. 

1155
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:41,200
Yeah, maybe, you know, I don't 
want to say smarter because he 

1156
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:46,720
was a smart guy, but yeah, 
possibly he could have held off 

1157
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,640
on lap one and waited. 
I would have been, I don't know,

1158
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:53,520
I don't know, there's a reason 
Joe was in the Super Tour and I 

1159
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:55,520
wasn't. 
But yeah, who am I to tell 

1160
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:57,360
Jovankelhock what he was doing 
wrong? 

1161
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:01,160
But yeah, it's surprising 
outburst for him because he 

1162
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:03,720
clearly and he obviously felt 
that the double was on. 

1163
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:07,160
And let's be honest, if he'd 
have got through, he would have 

1164
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:09,400
gone off into the distance just 
like he did in Race 1. 

1165
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,960
So I can see why he would have 
been aggrieved. 

1166
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:15,240
Yeah, absolutely. 
Rydell on the other. 

1167
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:17,680
Hand in the Volvo. 
The sole remaining Volvo, sadly,

1168
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:20,160
was flying. 
He swept past Bin Cliff through 

1169
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:24,800
Cascades great move and closed 
onto Beeler's tail by lap 6 as 

1170
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:27,160
they climbed the start finish 
straight for the 7th time. 

1171
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:31,760
Rydell won the drag race out of 
Old Hall and surged into the 

1172
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:35,240
lead, setting himself out for 
his first win of the season. 

1173
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:37,920
Rydell said. 
I knew we'd be OK in the dry 

1174
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:40,680
against the Alders but they have
such different lines through the

1175
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:43,720
corners that to overtake them 
you you have to out drag them. 

1176
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:46,040
Beeler agreed with that 
assessment. 

1177
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:49,080
And he said Rydell closed up on 
me like a rocket. 

1178
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:51,760
Second was fine though and for 
what we're able to do at the 

1179
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:53,040
moment. 
He's obviously referring to the 

1180
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:56,280
weight penalty isn't he? 
We had a good weekend Jacob. 

1181
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:58,080
This was Ricard's first win of 
the season. 

1182
01:02:58,320 --> 01:02:59,640
He was under pressure to him, 
wasn't he? 

1183
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:02,360
Because Kelvin Bert had won, as 
we said before, a week or so 

1184
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:05,760
earlier at Silverstone, beating 
the previously dominant Aldis. 

1185
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:08,680
Do you think this marked the 
first real push back from the 

1186
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:12,440
front wheel drive teams against 
what many felt was an unfair 

1187
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:14,160
advantage from the four wheel 
drive Quattro? 

1188
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,840
I think so, but you didn't. 
Really know how much the Aldi's 

1189
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,560
had in the bag. 
Still didn't want any more 

1190
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:25,160
weight put on them, so I'm 
fairly sure that they were 

1191
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:29,520
driving within themselves. 
But motorsport has a strange way

1192
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:33,360
of results falling right? 
So after the Kelvin's crash in 

1193
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:37,600
the first race to evolve, their 
winning the second race was more

1194
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:40,760
than deserved. 
Yeah, and quite strange really. 

1195
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:43,640
Not. 
To see an Audi win in 1996 

1196
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:46,560
wasn't it. 
Behind the leaders, Bincliffe 

1197
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,640
had already allowed one position
to slip away, but he wasn't 

1198
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:52,880
about to surrender another. 
From lap 4 all the way to the 

1199
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,360
chequered flag, the Audi A4 
headed A7 car train. 

1200
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:59,200
This is what Winkle Hawk was 
referring to, which frequently 

1201
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,440
ran nose to tail. 
Great for the crowd though. 

1202
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:05,080
Despite the spectacle, the order
from third tonight never changed

1203
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:06,880
with Bincliffe leading. 
Menu. 

1204
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:10,160
Revalia. 
Hoy, Leslie, Tim Harvey's 

1205
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:14,080
Peugeot and John Clemons 
Vauxhall in a conga line of 

1206
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:16,840
growing frustration. 
That's a real who's who of 

1207
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:20,320
1990s, isn't it? 
Menu said. 

1208
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,040
In a way I have to. 
This is another slightly 

1209
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:24,560
condescending remark against 
Wincliffe. 

1210
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:28,640
In a way, I have to admit he did
well, but it was way over the 

1211
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:30,400
top. 
I've never, ever raced with 

1212
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:33,080
somebody so defensive. 
I was pushing hard and I nearly 

1213
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:36,400
lost it at Cascades once, but 
there was no way past. 

1214
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:39,480
Revalia joined it as well. 
The Audi's break late. 

1215
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:42,440
They break on the dirt. 
They're impossible to pass if 

1216
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:45,840
they don't want it. 
Alex, is there ever a time you 

1217
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:49,200
can be too defensive? 
Menu obviously feels there is. 

1218
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:53,040
Yeah, Yeah, I. 
No, I don't think there is. 

1219
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:55,760
So it's Schumacher and 
Barrichello in Hungary maybe? 

1220
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:57,080
Well. 
Yes, yeah. 

1221
01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:59,840
OK, possibly. 
Yeah, that's too defensive. 

1222
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:06,280
But I, I liken this to David 
Coulthard and Enrique Bernaldi 

1223
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:10,400
and Monaco in 2001 when Ron 
Dennis was apoplectic that, you 

1224
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:13,480
know, going shouting down at Tom
Walkinshaw and let him pass him.

1225
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:16,840
No, it's, it was for a position.
It's for a position. 

1226
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:20,720
No. 
And and if, if, if John 

1227
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:24,280
Binkliff, which he did, he held 
on to that position for the 

1228
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:27,360
remainder of the race and got 
the result he needed and fair 

1229
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,880
play to him. 
No, if, if, if that's what he 

1230
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,200
needed to do to maintain his 
position, then that's what he 

1231
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:36,400
needed to do where he did the 
best for himself and for his 

1232
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:37,760
team. 
He's not there racing for 

1233
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:38,600
Renault. 
He doesn't give us. 

1234
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:43,440
It's got nothing to do with, oh,
I should let this Renault pass. 

1235
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:46,120
I really are sorry, I'm I'm 
being a bit defensive there. 

1236
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:48,560
No, no, no. 
And and if he's being that 

1237
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:52,280
defensive, then possibly there's
a way through. 

1238
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:56,480
Again, this points back is the 
reason they're crowing about it 

1239
01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:01,080
so much is because they feel 
there's an an inherent advantage

1240
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:06,040
that the as Rivalia hinted to 
the impossible to pass. 

1241
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,120
They break late, they break on 
the dirt. 

1242
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:11,080
They can go on funny lines and 
they can still be quick. 

1243
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:15,000
As I sort of said earlier, it's 
it's their way of saying, you 

1244
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:18,760
know, this isn't right. 
It reminds me of Jason Plato's 

1245
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:20,960
wonderful crow. 
Even Stevie Wonder can see that 

1246
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:24,760
in right. 
You know, it's like it's like 

1247
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:27,640
that, you know, it's just it's 
their way of saying, come on, 

1248
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:30,160
this isn't fair. 
So I get why they're saying it. 

1249
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:34,160
But yeah, it's a bit it's a bit 
harsh on big clip, isn't it? 

1250
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:36,920
Yeah, it is about. 
I think you hit the nail on the 

1251
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:38,360
head as. 
Well, before Jacob, when you 

1252
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:40,920
said they're even more 
frustrated knowing they still 

1253
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:44,040
can't get through after the wait
penalty has been brought in. 

1254
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:47,080
So maybe that's another reason 
Menu was so aggrieved there. 

1255
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:49,920
Yeah, yeah. 
Many was very clever. 

1256
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:53,880
He was very political. 
He knew what to say and when to 

1257
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:57,160
say it and how to say it again, 
another another Plato trait. 

1258
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:03,200
You know, he knew what would get
listened to and and this is 

1259
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:06,880
obviously his way of saying, 
come on, this isn't right. 

1260
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:09,680
Well, in the independence race 
further down. 

1261
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:11,560
The field, we know Matt Neil was
out of action, as we said 

1262
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:12,840
before, wasn't feeling very 
well. 

1263
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:16,320
Things really ended on a sour 
note for the Vauxhall Cavalier 

1264
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,800
of Richard Kay. 
After taking the opening 

1265
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:22,200
independent win ahead of Lee 
Brooks, he severely damaged his 

1266
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:26,240
Mint Motorsport Cavalier in a 
very heavy race to accident. 

1267
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:30,120
It was just before Ireland, said
a still shaken K. 

1268
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:33,240
And I don't know what happened. 
It went one way, I caught it, it

1269
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:36,400
went the other way and I gave up
and waited for the accident. 

1270
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:40,680
It's knackered, dead, he said. 
Yeah, Jacob, another big one not

1271
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:42,760
that far from where Bert had 
crashed earlier in the day, 

1272
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:44,840
further down the straight 
towards Ireland bend. 

1273
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:47,000
Car was airborne. 
It was a complete mess, wasn't 

1274
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:48,080
it? 
Yeah, it was. 

1275
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:51,560
I missed that one there. 
Yeah, you changed it. 

1276
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:54,160
Your film at that. 
Point though yeah, there's it's 

1277
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:57,160
amazing because Richard was so. 
Fast in that car all year, but I

1278
01:07:57,160 --> 01:08:00,200
think Lee Brooks won the title 
yeah, yeah, so. 

1279
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:03,440
But yeah, it was a pretty 
monumental moment, to say the 

1280
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:06,600
least. 
Interestingly, it was a very. 

1281
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:09,520
Tortoise and hair race that year
between. 

1282
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:13,600
As Jacob just said, Richard Kay 
was probably the quicker 

1283
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:16,240
combination. 
He had the the the the Vauxhall 

1284
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:19,319
Cavalier which had done so well 
the previous year. 

1285
01:08:20,359 --> 01:08:27,479
Where has Lee had the Karina 
that year, which wasn't as quick

1286
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:32,800
a car, But yeah, fair play to to
to Lee Brooks. 

1287
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:36,880
He he won that year and and and 
and and did the job. 

1288
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:42,640
But Richard Kay probably was a 
better, faster package. 

1289
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:46,560
But yeah, big nasty shunt. 
That was a really, really nasty 

1290
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:48,319
one. 
And if memory serves me right, 

1291
01:08:48,319 --> 01:08:51,040
did Richard Case season not? 
End in a pretty heavy shunt as 

1292
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:52,640
well. 
Brands. 

1293
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:54,319
And he couldn't race, could he? 
No. 

1294
01:08:54,319 --> 01:08:56,520
That's right. 
That's right, but it wasn't a 

1295
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:58,359
big. 
Independent field that year, it 

1296
01:08:58,359 --> 01:09:01,200
was so without Matt. 
There were literally three of 

1297
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:05,680
them. 
There was Lee Richard and Rob 

1298
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:11,600
Gravitt in the second Dynamics 
car, so Lee Brooks pretty much 

1299
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:13,840
had to just keep finishing 
races. 

1300
01:09:15,399 --> 01:09:18,640
If it was a bigger field, maybe 
it wouldn't have been the 

1301
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:20,000
championship wouldn't have 
fallen that way. 

1302
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:24,680
But yeah, you know, it, he had. 
He did what he had to do and and

1303
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:29,200
but it wasn't a strong field. 
But Richard was often chewing on

1304
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:33,720
the the tails of the likes of 
Robertson Radisich, the, the, 

1305
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:35,600
the Peugeot's of Harvey and 
Watts. 

1306
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:40,040
You know, the the sort of the 
the slower works cars he Richard

1307
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:42,960
was often battling with them and
those Nissans as well, of 

1308
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:45,319
course, of Macaulay and Gary 
Ailes. 

1309
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:49,760
My most memorable Richard Kay 
memory from 90. 6 As you say, he

1310
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:53,120
was chewing on the bumper bar of
some of these slower factory 

1311
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:57,520
cars and he was coming up to the
back of Watts in the Peugeot and

1312
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:00,960
Robertson on the Brands Hatch 
Grand Prix circuit in the mid 

1313
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:04,000
season meeting. 
And Robertson got turned into 

1314
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:05,760
the Barry, if you remember, 
coming out of Clear Way. 

1315
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:07,880
That's right. 
Yeah, that was a classic Murray 

1316
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:09,520
moment as well. 
But it was. 

1317
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:11,280
Yeah, that's right. 
I remember that. 

1318
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:15,440
But Richard always seemed to 
have, if you had an accident, it

1319
01:10:15,440 --> 01:10:16,720
always seemed to be quite a big 
one. 

1320
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:19,200
Yeah. 
A lot of damage for an 

1321
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:20,760
independent team, let's not 
forget, yeah? 

1322
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:21,360
Exactly. 
Yeah. 

1323
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:28,360
Cost, yeah. 
So that's a wrap on our look 

1324
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:30,840
back at the. 
Unforgettable May Bank Holiday 

1325
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:35,600
1996 Alton Park BTCC race 
meeting It's a weekend that will

1326
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:38,840
always be remembered, not just 
for the drama on the track, but 

1327
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:42,120
for the horrific accident 
involving Kelvin Burt and 

1328
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:45,080
incredibly and most importantly 
of course, his survival. 

1329
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:48,000
It's a story that stayed with 
all of us over the last three 

1330
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,280
decades and a reminder of the 
dangers of the sport, but also 

1331
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:54,520
of the resilience of the human 
spirit and the incredible safety

1332
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:57,320
measures that have helped us 
shape motorsport as we know it 

1333
01:10:57,320 --> 01:10:59,840
today. 
Before we sign off, a huge thank

1334
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:03,560
you to Alex Clark, as always, 
for contributing his experience 

1335
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,920
and helping bring these 
incredible stories to life every

1336
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:08,480
episode. 
Alex, for me as well, thanks 

1337
01:11:08,480 --> 01:11:10,920
again for bringing me in as the 
guest host. 

1338
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:12,400
It's been a pleasure. 
No worries. 

1339
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:13,280
No, it's been great. 
No. 

1340
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:15,080
Thanks for coming on. 
It's such short notice. 

1341
01:11:15,480 --> 01:11:17,240
It's it's been great having you 
on. 

1342
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:19,240
So no thank you. 
Thank you again. 

1343
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:21,120
And of course, most importantly,
a very special thank. 

1344
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:23,880
You to photographer Jacob Ebree 
for joining us and your 

1345
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:27,280
experience for the first time. 
Jacob on the podcast, first hand

1346
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:29,840
experience and insight from the 
event itself, which has really 

1347
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:31,520
helped us understand what 
happened there. 

1348
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:34,080
Hopefully you can join us again 
in the future. 

1349
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:36,440
Yeah, brilliant. 
Thanks ever so much for having 

1350
01:11:36,480 --> 01:11:37,280
us. 
It's been. 

1351
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:40,480
Great fun, and there's nothing 
better I'd like to do than talk 

1352
01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:42,200
about Super Touring Girls. 
Perfect. 

1353
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:43,120
Yeah. 
Great. 

1354
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:44,120
No. 
Cheers for coming on. 

1355
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,440
It's been great. 
Yeah, thank you very much. 

1356
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:49,280
I echo those sentiments. 
And of course, thank you to all 

1357
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:50,560
of you for listening or 
watching. 

1358
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:53,600
If you've got the video version,
you saw Alex holding up the 

1359
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:56,920
Autosport magazine and covering 
his face, doing us all a favour 

1360
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:58,840
just a little bit earlier on in 
the podcast. 

1361
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:01,560
We'll be back soon with more 
stories from the golden age of 

1362
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:04,320
Tory car racing. 
So stay tuned, keep the racing 

1363
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:06,440
spirit alive and we'll catch you
next time. 

1364
01:12:06,440 --> 01:12:09,280
But for now, from Jacob, from 
Alex, from me, Greg Haynes, this

1365
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:10,720
has been stories from Super 
Touring. 

1366
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:11,720
Thanks again for listening.