Stories from Super Touring. Hello and welcome to this week's
episode of Stories from Super Touring.
Now, this week we've got a guest that's worked on the other side
of the pit lane, and we all know how much you listeners enjoy
hearing stories from the other side of the pit lane, So I'd
like to welcome Brad Joyce to Stories from Super Touring.
Brad, thanks for joining us this evening.
How are you doing? I'm good.
Thanks, Alex. Yeah, yeah, very good.
Thank. You.
It's great that you've decided to come on the show with us
today. How did you first get into?
What was what sparked your interest into racing in the 1st
place? Is it?
Am I right in thinking you raced yourself at first?
Yeah, I didn't. Well, originally my dad raced,
so from a very young age I was around, I think I first went to
Silverstone at 7:00, so. And then I had a bit of karting,
ran A5 turbos and then I had to get a proper job so.
And was it something then that you always thought that's what I
want to work in? Was that very much the aim early
on? Yeah, I mean the aim early on,
like many a young lad is to be a racing driver.
But as that that that that didn't happen and the next best
thing I felt was to work in it. And and I quite early on
identified that race engineering was the was the bit I would
enjoy the most. Yeah.
And was there always an intro? We obviously this is stories
from Super Touring, so we're obviously going to focus on the
the very much the touring car side of your career.
Was that was that championship? Was that discipline a name?
Were you already a fan of the of the discipline and it was
something that you thought maybe I'd be really interested in
getting into, I think. It, it was parts part what a a
name, but also part circumstance, because in that,
that period of sort of 1990 to 2000, it was the strongest
championship in the UK really. And it offered the, the most
development opportunities. And it, it was just such a big,
a big series that that you kind of gravitated towards it and it,
and it also brought you in, yeah, it was providing the most
jobs in UK motorsport other than F1, so.
Yeah, so it makes sense. And really, So what?
What were your first steps in the championship then?
I had a small brief part in with a driver called Lawrence Bristow
in 92 and then in 909394 I worked with Charlie Cox in Group
N and followed him into touring cars and ran in in Ford Mondeo.
Yeah, we we talked to Charlie about his time in the series as
a racer himself on the podcast here, and it was always
startling just how little budget you guys were having to run
effectively a a fully specced super tour on.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I remember, I think in
Brands Hatch is, I think it was his second race.
He finished fifth in the wet. And part of the thing was that
we're having like you can in Formula One, you had slicks,
inters and wets. We didn't Ford any rims for the
inters. So you could either go wet or
slicks. And fortunately, the full wet
was the was the way forward. Yeah.
And that race, as you write, Charlie finished fifth, which
was the best finish for an independent at that point.
Yeah, that was the high of the season.
And what was shortly to follow was very much the low of the
season. Yeah.
What? What do you remember about that?
That weekend at Throxton, that big shunt that obviously
destroyed the car that you were working on?
Yeah, I mean a lot really, because it was a big, a big part
there was we'd we'd recently got that car from Andy Rouse.
It was World Cup winning Paul Ruddesich car the previous year.
And we, I think that, I mean, what happened was the rear
brakes stuck on as he went into the chicane at like 150 mile an
hour or something. And Thruxton been Thruxton.
As soon as the back end stepped out, it just barrel rolled the
car And the I, I remember the ambulance went off to to try and
get to him, but unfortunately he'd actually gone over the the
fencing and was outside the circuit in a ditch.
So the the ambulance had to come back out, go outside the
perimeter of the of the of the actual circuit and the spectator
area and and go and rescue him. So it was, it was a pretty awful
time really from that, from that point of view.
But yeah, it was, yeah, it, it, it did, as you say, destroy the
car. We did actually.
Afterwards we built a new car, a hatchback.
It was the first hatchback car. And yeah, it did it, it was, it
was, yeah. Whilst it was a little bit of a
tough time, obviously being a privateer and having to rebuild
a new car, it was also quite a learning curve for me because we
we fitted a new roll cage and you know, I was building arches
and we had to manufacture new subframes and everything.
So we did everything from the from scratch as such, which was
good. Yeah.
It's quite unusual for an independent team to be doing
something like that when normally the norm would be, as
you say, you picked up a car from Andy Roes.
Yeah, Yeah. So it's a tough learning curve.
Yeah, yeah. And we, we kind of thought we
could do a few things better and cheaper.
So yeah, basically we, we did it.
And I think he did the last half of the year or or so.
But he, he wasn't quite himself. He did hit his head very hard.
But in the, in the accident. So there was a not quite as
sharp probably as he, as he, as he had been prior to that
accident. He was really quick.
And when I ran him in Group N, we won the championship both
years and National DGT Championship as well.
So it was it was a quick guy. Yeah, the talking quickly about
Group N those fours that you ran, there were beautiful cars.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, now you see them for all
sorts of prices. Yeah.
Exactly, Yeah. Yeah, I used to get to test it
because Charlie was so busy. He had his own business and,
and, and, and he was working for radio stations and newspapers
and all sorts. If brakes needed bedding in or
we were doing, we used to go to Chobham and do boost runs to,
to, to try and improve the power and, and the and the delivery.
I got to drive it myself. So that was quite enjoyable.
Oh, that's good. Yeah.
Did you ever get to drive the Super Tour or not that lucky?
Not that particular one, only small.
The odd lap in in in when I was at W Surrey.
So you mentioned W Surrey there that that's where I remember you
from because Charlie called you out on the coverage.
I don't know if you know that there's we're we're jumping a
bit here, but it's when Craig Beard is leading at Knock Hill
and and and it cuts to the pit wall and and there's you, you're
talking to Craig and Charlie calls you out.
And then so was there where did, where were you between working
with Charlie then and W Surrey? Was there anywhere in between?
Yeah, so I did, I did. I went to W Surrey in 1996 and I
was a race mechanic #1 mechanic and then 97 team manager called
Malcolm Sweatnam that was there. He promoted me to kind of data
engineer and damp engineer. So and then 98 I became a race
engineer. Yeah, so W Surrey, obviously led
by the legendary Dick Bennett's. There's a man who's done it all
in motorsport there, isn't it? That must have been quite and it
must be quite an experience working for somebody like Dick.
It it really was. Yeah, yeah, I mean, he's he, he,
yeah, like you say, he's, he's been involved in in it for so
long. I I still odd occasions see him.
You know, he may be and and always say hello and and, and
yeah, we have the odd chat about his current racing or, or or or
or the past times. But yeah, that was it.
It, it was it, it was a good, a good team to learn from at the
time and and progress. Yeah.
It seemed, certainly in the early days of the West Surya and
the Ford programme, it very much seemed that there were a lot of
different groups people all in putting into one car.
Did that, did that end up being the best way of going about it?
Because there were lots, there were lots of thoughts that
possibly too many cooks sort of thing and too many people
getting involved and it meant that the car wasn't as great as
it could have been. Yeah, I think those early days,
I mean, yeah, you're probably right there.
Those early days, I think the first year was a shoe ball car
and then it went Reynard for a couple of years and then
Prodrive took it over and and and Dick got the Honda deal.
But even under the Honda deal that car was again manufactured
elsewhere. So, and that when you have the
different, different companies involved, yeah, there is a,
there is a, a difficulty in managing all of that.
But also the manufacturer themselves in, in, in both Ford
and, and in the days of Honda, they want reports.
So you're, you know, you're having to report to, to all
sides and all sides are feeding in.
And so it it probably does slow the process down a little at
least, yeah. One of the one of the drivers
that you work with well you mentioned you were you were at
Ford in 97 when Will joined the team.
Will Hoy was teammate with Paul that season and obviously will
no longer with us. What sort of driver was Will
like because he such a seen such a popular member of the paddock
and and nobody has ever seemed to have a bad word to say about
Will. Yeah, yeah, he was.
He was a really nice guy. I did.
I did race engineering when Mansell was in the other car.
So Will's engineer, Will Phillips, he he moved over to
the Mansell car and I, I engineered Will, Will Hoy.
Yeah. He, he was a really nice guy.
Real gentleman. Very quick in the wet.
Yeah. And he'd and he'd obviously been
doing it for a long time. He'd he'd, he'd had some great
success. But yeah, he, he was, he was a
really nice guy, like you say. And I'm not surprised you never
find a bad word to say. No, he was, he was, he was
lovely as, as, as I remember myself.
But you mentioned 98 and obviously that high profile
programme that Ford started running in 98.
You know, the, the, there was talk that Nigel was not Mansell
obviously was coming at first to do some testing for the, for
the, for the team. And then it was announced that
he would do 3 rounds as well at brands Donnington and and
Silverstone. What was the buzz like around
the team? When when?
Because sort of like him or loathing that Nigel is a
superstar, isn't he? Yeah, Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. I mean it, it was obviously a
huge thing for that, for the team.
And and as I remember rightly probably doubled the gates or
more. And by the time he he turned up,
I think, although it was maybe I can't remember, but it was as
you say, possibly announced in two parts.
We always knew the testing was for the racing.
So it was always known within the team that he was going to do
those three races. And obviously driving those
front wheel drive cars is, is a really difficult thing if you go
from majority of your life driving a rear wheel drive car,
those front wheel drive front engine. the Super Touring days
were very difficult to adapt. You saw with a lot of the single
seater drivers. It took him, yeah, over a year
at times to to really get into it.
And he he had a quite a steep learning curve.
He had to adapt very quickly. And because he's so high profile
and been success so successful, it's it there was a lot of
pressure on to to to to see him quick.
But I remember he he was strung a little bit, I think in
Donnington, but in the one shot when he used to go back out in
reverse order, I think, if I remember right.
And he was third. So he qualified third because
the next car out chipped a load of oil dam and Donnington.
And and then I think that that particular race was for the the
what that maybe they called it a Sprint race.
At the time, that's right. The Sprint, yeah.
And he had a terrible start and went to the back, maybe had an
accident. I think yeah, he did.
But then. But then the next race where he
started at the back in the wet next minute, I think because
Will, Will, who was really quick in the wet in the other car, the
car I was running, he went out and, and, and at one point
Nigel's come all the way from the back to lead in the race
and, and, and in the wet. And he would just start at the
pit wall thinking how has he done that?
How, how has he managed to do that?
But it was quite incredible how he how he did that.
So I think that was probably the highlight of of that particular
campaign, you know, of where he drew.
But yeah, it was it was fantastic to see.
Absolutely. And that one by pure chance to
win the live races on BBC as well.
And I think Charlie and John Watson on the commentary said at
the time it was the best motor motor race they'd ever seen bar
none. Because I should say he came
from the back all the way up to the front and was so close to
winning it. But you mentioned obviously the
wet that Monday, especially in that year, obviously Will won at
Silverstone in the car in the way as well.
Why was it so good in the wet? What was Were there any certain
characteristics of the car that just meant in the wet it was a a
real, real beast? Yeah, there was AI mean
nothing's 100% confirmed because you don't really test that much
in the wet. But the, the kind of the, the
takeaways I got from running cars later on, it had quite a
forward weight distribution because then the forward engine
was the V6 and a bit heavier and had quite a low roll centre as
well at the front, which had in the wet and, and it was quite
soft. So it, it had a combination of a
few things that that that quite possibly helped to attraction,
which on a front wheel drive car is a, is a positive thing in the
wet. It was, yeah.
It it, it definitely had more performance in the wet versus
the dry as just as you say. Yeah, but as you said with the
races, with Nigel wasn't there, You work with Craig Baird for
that year. What was Craig like as a driver
to work with? He, he, we've, we've had him on
the on the show before and he's, he's a real gent, a really,
really nice fella. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, he, he was really nice. Yeah, he was really, really
good. The, the, the difficult thing
for Craig was that it was his first year in, you know, the UK
and, and, and, and, and in Super Touring.
And then when the Nigel Mansell thing came in and he was going
to have to step aside for those 3 rounds out of probably about
14 maybe at the time it, it, it kind of destabilised him a
little bit. I think it, it did make things a
little more awkward for him. But yeah, he, he personally, he
was a really nice guy and, and he, he had some good races and,
and I think had he been, had he had a second year, he would have
really come on. Yeah, no, he that was that was
the thing he said is that he'd hoped that very much 98 would
have been a learning year for him and that 99 he would have
pushed on a little bit more. But his last race in the series
was actually at Knock Hill, which we mentioned earlier,
where again, with the wet weather, he ended up leading for
a fair chunk of it. And as I say, you starred on the
BBC coverage. It looked like you were shouting
on the radio at him that Derek Warwick was all over the back of
it. Yeah.
I mean we, we, we made one very good tyre choice I think at the
beginning, which meant we were leading.
But then at at some point we needed to bank that, which would
have meant we didn't win the race really, to be honest.
But we did need to come in and and change again.
And in fairness, we didn't, we didn't do that when we we
should. So that result didn't transfer
into a quite as good a result as it as it could have done.
But those those kind of races are always a little bit of luck
and and a little bit of circumstance that that can go
your way or not at the time. Absolutely.
And obviously at the end of 98, as you mentioned previously, W
Surrey and Ford split. W Surrey went off with Honda and
Ford and Prodrive joined ranks. And is that when you joined
Prodrive? No.
So I stayed with W Surrey. I ran Peter Cox in the Honda.
In 99, yeah. So I, I only moved at the end at
the beginning of 2000 to Prodrive to run Ricard.
Yeah, I was actually, so I ran Peter all the way through that
year and then I was down to run Tom Christensen.
And so that winter I did a like a round the UK track tour
engineering Tom Christensen, but then said goodbye to him and
went off to his mate Ricard, which she she spent the next few
years ruining me about. An interesting year then with
Peter Cox in 99, his first win at the night race of course, and
where he, he and Ivan Muller had a bit of a they, they, they,
they weren't best friends, were they blessed them, but Peter Cox
quite a character himself then. Yeah, yeah, he really was.
Yeah. I mean, again, he was a really
nice guy. He's very passionate, quick and.
And yeah, I again, he was adapting in his early super
touring bays to touring cars from the rear wheel drive BMWs.
He'd been driving and and and single seat as previous to that.
But yeah, really quick his he came up against a very, very
quick teammate in James Thompson as well, who was probably around
the top of his game in in in no sort of that that era, I think.
Yeah, yeah. What were the differences then
of working with the Ford compared to the Honda?
Because obviously every car has its own characteristics.
You know it's going to have imperfections.
So it's the whole point of different body types and
different dimensions. Was was the Honda a better
touring, a better base car to be a touring car?
Yeah, I mean, they all have strengths, strengths and
weaknesses. The the Ford towards the end of
98 was getting pretty quick anyway, It wasn't, it wasn't
quite as as as as difficult. I think we were sort of around
5th, 6th, 7th in in in those sort of races.
I ran then the Pro drive Honda in in in winter testing a little
bit and then we had a new Honda Accord come, which I also ran.
That's all when we ran with Peter.
But we did AI went to Italy, not engineering myself, but the sort
of the British representative out in Valalunga with the
testing with the Gabrielle Tarquini driving a lot.
So the, one of the differences which ends up getting addressed
at Prodrive was the, the, the, as I mentioned earlier, the,
the, the Mondeo had a more forward weight distribution and
the, the, the Accord being a A4 cylinder and, and able to
package it, move the engine back in the, in the, in the body
shell or in the engine Bay, it allowed it to, to run an easier
weight distribution. So you're talking something like
5859% on the Ford down to 5655 on the, on the, the Honda, which
that that made a, a difference. It made a difference on on front
tyre wear, for instance, and it and it and it made a difference
on level of understeer that you you had to endure.
You mentioned there that the, the, the, the pro driver were
able to solve that. You know, quite recently at, at
the Goodwood members meeting, Anthony Reed was running a 2000
Mondeo in the, at the, at the, at the members meet.
They had a super touring shoot out and, and, and really was
driving his car from 2000 there. And he showed me the engine Bay
and well, at first you wonder where it is because it's so far
back. It's really a wonderful piece of
engineering. Is that?
Is that how you? Is that how you would explain?
It that that they I mean that they did many things they the in
98 on the on the Mondeo, we managed to flat bottom the car a
bit towards the back. So we ran a big wide exhaust
silencer which sort of covered one part of it and and an oil
catch tank that covered the other part and we designed that
and and they continued with that, but went really extreme on
it. So they had almost a flat bottom
car front to back which which the the if I think in the early
days of the the wings that went on the Mondeau like the Andy
Rouse days, it all it virtually did was just get over the lift
that the car would generate. Naturally by the end it was
generating a lot of downfall in the in the Prodrive one, but
they to get over the weight issue.
Yeah, you, you, you're right to point out they moved the engine,
but they also lighten the car in an, in an extreme way, well over
100 kilos of ballast which which allowed them to spread it out
and move it where they wanted so they could just get the absolute
perfect weight distribution thereafter.
And, and, and, and not only obviously a low centre of
gravity, which in a big heavy car is really important.
They they, yeah, they made a a really good step in that, which
is, you know, one of the reasons that Carl was so quick.
You you say there you moved to to to Prodrive for 2000 and
you're working on engineering Rickards car.
That's quite a political powerhouse that team that year,
isn't it? Because you've got Anthony Allan
and then Rickard has joined the show in 2000.
That must have been quite it's heavier times that must have
been quite tricky to to work through because all three of
those drivers are capable of winning on the world stage,
aren't they? They will class drivers, every
single one of them. Yeah, yeah, I, I think it was
like it was one of those years where I mean it was my most
successful year that I, I worked in touring cars, but probably my
most difficult as well because like you say, there was so much
pressure. It was clear the car was good
enough to win the championship and it was going to be one of
those three drivers. There was so much pressure.
There was quite a lot of inter team friction.
And yeah, all the three race engineers knew that they had a
driver that if they could manage it, it would win.
And I think with Ricard, we had, I think we had 10 pole positions
because he's an exceptional qualifier, but only three race
wins and one of those wasn't from pole.
So it was a it's a difficult, I think at one race we're on pole
and Silverstone, I think, and Anthony Reed hitting that hard
at the back that the rear bumper was hanging off and we had to,
we got a Black Flag and drop and the bumper off and you're like,
Oh my God, what can you name? Yes, I don't remember that one.
And and then I think at the final race of the year, we're on
pole for both races. I think you finished second to
Tom Christensen in the first race and then the second race
you had to win it. Obviously I'm a Polar, so we got
a chance, but the we'd had to do a quick engine change between
the two races because we'd we'd we'd found some problems and
radiator hose came off on the on the grid.
So we had to push the car off the grid.
So we never got the the actual chance to see if we could
convert it to the to the championship in the end.
Yeah, that that year, as you see the three of the drivers, all
world class, all went into that finale with a chance of winning
the championship. How?
I don't mean fractured in a bad way, but how then how split is
the team? Are you, are you sharing data at
this point or is it very much each sort of sub part of the
team is out for themselves at that point?
It wasn't, it wasn't quite like that.
There was no, I mean, the, the, the data was shared.
It wasn't one of those situations because ultimately
the team wants to win regardless.
And, and, and if you start going down that path, you're only
slowing in all three cars down South.
Yeah, it, it, that data was getting shared.
It was obviously setups were a bit guarded at times and you
didn't tell everybody your ideas as, as, as such, but it, it was
managed, it was managed well. There was kind of like 1 engine
was slightly better than the other and each driver got his
own turn with that engine. You know it, it got rotated.
We used to go and do a shakedown before each race weekend and all
three cars would be checked to, to check the, they're making the
same load. And the power curve was checked
as well so that they're all as, as close to each other they
could be. So it, it it wasn't it, it, it
wasn't, Yeah, difficult from that side.
That's good. Now, one other thing I'd like to
sort of mention is that I mentioned Goodwood about 5
minutes ago. Now the gentleman who owns
Anthony's 2000 Mondeo now has a lot of difficulty in keeping the
car going because it's because it's such a technological beast.
Then, you know, and, and his view is that he had, you know,
there was a team of about 60 of you running the three cars then
on a big budget, whereas he's now trying to do it on a bit of
beer money and, and whatever friends he can get to muck in.
And those cars were so technologically advanced for the
time, weren't they? They, they, they were, yeah,
yeah. I mean, they, they, they, they
were the, the end of the, of the, of the series as such.
And and like you say, there was a lot the the engines they'd
really worked hard on, I think. And Pro Drive did a, you know,
they, they, they worked on absolutely every aspect.
So engines were, were better than they'd ever been.
There was a lot of what you would call Formula One
technology within the engine. I think because they were trying
to make the engine out of a standard Rd car engine as it as
it starts life it to make the block and make it strong enough
and how they wanted it. It was the most expensive block
Ford were making at the time, including in one block.
So it was it was more costly, it was costing more to manufacture
than than than the that that F1 block.
So, so there was a lot of, yeah, I mean, you were limited in, in,
in some things you can do. But but also I think throughout
that Super Touring time, which is one of the reasons I enjoyed
it a lot, is there was a lot of development.
You could do a lot to the cars. We would be aero testing
constantly every every week that we could get out and do straight
line running. We would be doing that.
You'd have been in the wind tunnel.
You were constantly revising geometries and, and trying to
move the thing forward. And if you didn't, you went
backwards. So, so and that, and that was
the same in the W Surrey era and, and, and, and throughout
the, the Honda and then the, the, the pro drive.
And then the nice thing as an engineer was that you, you were
involved in a lot of aspects of it.
So whereas when you're doing Formula One, you've got
aerodynamics and you've got mechanical designers and, and on
all of this and well, actually not designing the parts in
touring cars, there are designers you are inputting in
and, and, and involved in the, the, the test and reporting a
lot more. So it it was very good from that
that side of things. I was talking to Anthony Reed a
few weeks ago about about engineers in Super Touring and
he said to me the the great thing is the engineers were so
talented that for the next 10 years after Super Touring, you
took any glance at the pit lane and he would be able to pick
out, well, there's so and so that used to work at Ford and
there's so and so that used to work at Honda.
And all the talent from the BTCC when Super Touring ended
dispersed into the F1 paddock because you would gain such
great experiences in such a highly advanced championship.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he's, he's he's right.
And and I did actually run him in, in the DMG, Yeah.
So after I left Prodrive, I went, I went to F3000, but I had
a, that was a much more leisurely championship to do,
even though it was FYA, it was only 1010 races halfway through
that year. And Dick Bennett's had got the
Ng contract and, and, and I went back there and did the
development work, development testing and, and development
work for, for the, for that Ng new regulations as they were
that, that half of the year and over the winter before I went
back to a 3000 again. So I, I, I ran Anthony for the
final. I think we did the final three
race weekends and we won the final race in the.
Yeah, in the soaking wet rain of brands, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, Anthony said.
His favourite thing about that was that morning he saw all the
Vauxhall media people lining up all their press photo
opportunity because they assumed they were going to win every
race that year and he really enjoyed throwing that spanner.
Yeah, yeah. How did you?
Find those cars compared to the Super tours, then those MG and
the NGTC that's the current the BTC touring cars, then the
MG75T. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, there there was a lot more restrictions already.
It was getting dumbed down as such as as as as to what you
could do comparison to the Super Touring a a a lot less
aerodynamics, aerodynamic influence, but and and and
possibly a little harder to achieve some of the the things
that you wanted to. So again, weight distribution
and and that type of thing. But it, it, it was still at that
time was still fun to, to do. But you, you, you could feel it
wasn't quite the same. And they weren't as quick and
they weren't as breathtaking watching them, no.
That's very true. And then obviously your touring
car career ended because you took the big step into into
Formula One with Eddie Jordan. Yeah, yeah.
Another big character. Yeah, yeah.
Well, I I didn't actually work with Eddie No So so I went, I
went from the the I did a 2000 and one 2002 F 3000 with racing.
I think 2001. We won the championship with
Justin Wilson and Thomas Anger and then 2003 I went to Carlin
Motorsport and was chief engineer on their World Series
team and 2004 ran Tiago Montero and then then I went to to F1
with Trevor Carlin. Right.
When he, when he went to Jordan, there was four of us went from
Carlin's to to to to Jordan. Yeah, of course Eddie would have
sold up at that point, wouldn't he?
So yeah, he wasn't involved anymore.
It's just the name. Yeah, yeah.
Although he did used to wander in and and but there are a few
expletives and and wind a few people up.
But yeah. You you stuck with that team
through all the iterations of of a Spiker, Force India, Midland,
Racing Point, all the way through to what it is now Aston
Martin. That must have been quite an
interesting development as the team grew around you then,
because what it is now compared to what you would have walked
into in 2005 must have been very different.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, when I, when I went
there in 2005, it was shrinking as such.
So it was reducing and and an actual fact, I think part way
through 2005 there was actually more people worked at Prodrive
then worked in really in that Jordan initial Jordan year and
it and it was a bit like that. It was more about survival for
those first couple of years until Vijay bought it as force
endearing. It started to get an injection
of cash and and and an improvement then, yeah.
So you obviously as, as I just said, you went all the way
through to the Aston Martin era. I remember hearing you on the
radio with Lance Stroll. You've now you're now working in
F2 as a team principal. What does that involve?
Yeah. So I, I, I look after, I mean, I
look after F2F3, we've got Fraca F4.
Oh wow. OK.
Yeah. So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm along with
the management team that that, that I have.
We're looking after all the series and we've developed a
test team there now and we're. In a, a big push to develop each
of the teams, each of the cup cars as as much as possible to
try and get the all, all the teams up to the front end of the
grid. So it's, it's a, it's a, it's a
big process to, to, to do that. And, and the company is now
we've got around 95 people, something like that working
there. So it's not a small team?
No, a big team of people. Yeah.
So having obviously you still very much working in the sport
now, when you look back at your time in touring cars in the BTCC
all the way back from 92 until the final years 2000 and a
couple of years with with Reedy and the MG, do you look back
fondly at that time with a lot of happiness?
Yeah, it is. Yeah.
Yeah, it was really, really good fun series.
Yeah, there, there there's some really great memories and and
like I say, the engineering as well that you could do as well
as the. It had many aspects.
Obviously you were doing pit stops and and had had had had
lots of different aspects to it to to to try and perfect.
So, yeah, really enjoyable. And, and, and like you say, what
Anthony said, when I went to Jordan, I was then working with
a a, a race engineer who'd come from the Williams touring car
era. I took over the position from
Jerry Hughes, who went to Red, who'd also been menus engineer
at Prodrive. Yeah, so they were.
And, and you know, I see, I still see Dominic sometimes.
He works for the FIA now, like you say, there was a lot of a
lot of people who were at Jordan.
There were several mechanics that were from the pit lane and,
and especially Pro Drive in particular.
So it, it, it, it did become a, a, a draft as such as F1
expanded. And, but yeah, I, I, I enjoyed
those years, especially the, the years at W Surrey.
I think they were really good. And and and and.
The time running Charlie was also.
I can imagine. I can imagine.
So you mentioned the pit stops quickly.
It's something I've only come to me when, when you mentioned it,
was it something that you had a dedicated members of staff that
would only ever do it or did was it a rotational thing?
No, so it was it was you wouldn't do a rotational thing.
You may in the beginning find who is the the the most likely
talented and on those touring cars, physique was one real
thing. So if you were the right build,
that certainly helped. And and and so it wouldn't there
would be the same guys do the pit stop, but they wouldn't
necessarily be say, the number one mechanic or something like
that. It it it I think pro drivers,
maybe a chief mechanic on more than side than A and A and a
Truckee on the other side. Yeah, OK.
They were the people with the with the most skill at at that
time. So you, you, you you just pick
your best crew by care. And, and that's the same with
Formula One, yeah. That that's not necessarily
because you're #1 on a, on a, on a car that you're the, the guy
on the gun or something like that, though they just, they do
really rotate through, find people who are the most suited
to what one particular job. Yeah.
And and maximise the potential. Did you ever, ever go?
I did, yeah. I was rubbish.
Yeah, I mentioned the word physique and I think the.
One thing from that did the team personnel enjoy having that
extra challenge and being involved that little bit more
with pit stops and pit strategy, or would you have preferred to
do your bit and then just leave it to the driver?
That I think the pit stops are often a good thing.
I mean, we, we still do it in F2 in the future race.
So, and, and that in, in itself is more difficult because the,
that, that you've only got a limited amount of people that
you can pick from. So, and, and pretty much 3/4 of
the people have to be involved in the pit stop.
And, and you, you don't necessarily employ people.
We can't employ people that are just solely bettled up being a
pit, a pit crew. So it's you, you, there's a bit
of training involved to try and to improve the, the stops at
that point. And it's a little bit the same
in, in, in, in the Super touring days.
Again, not huge teams. Whereas in F1 you really have
the, the luxury of a lot more people to, to, to choose from
and, and, and, and in some ways, although they're, they're super
impressively quick, they have so many guys per corner.
But it's, it's physically not as hard for them as it is in some
of the lower formulas where they have heavier wheels and they've,
they, if, if the car stops out of place, the guy's got to move
his wheel and his gun and the whole lot.
Whereas F1 there there's one guy with with the wheel, one guy
with the gun and it's much easier.
I think the the Super Touring rule was it was 2 per side,
wasn't it? It was only so, as you say, if
somebody came in and you know, missed their stop, you've only
got two people then dragging or and if you wanted to change all
four tyres, that was a 22nd pit stop suddenly.
You know, yeah, yeah. So that yeah, they, they had to
rush off to the back as well. And, and, and, and also the
wheel arches make that much more difficult and that the, the,
yeah, it's not a, a simple process to, to, to get that
wheel on and off. So, and I, I think there's, if I
remember right, there was sort of around 5-6 seconds or
something like that. Yeah.
Which was, if you see what they had to do was, was, was
incredible. There was very much a
progression. I think the first time at
Thruxton it was around 8-9 seconds and I think Pro Drive
got the quickest in the end in the final year with about 3.9
seconds, which was very, very impressive.
But you could see the teams that had thought clever and had
started slightly redesigning wheel arches and trying to get
make it a bit easier to get things up and under, especially
at the rear. That and certain cars they that
was particularly tricky point for the for the the wheels to
get up and under the wheel actually right.
Yeah, yeah. And there was, I think, yeah,
quick release jacks and I mean the things you'd absolutely bang
down. The drivers used to complain
that, yeah, bit of spine compression as it landed.
Yeah, it was. There was some design involved
like you say, but also some some skill from the crews and and a
lot of practise. Absolutely.
Well, Brad, thank you so much for for joining us this week on
Stories from Super Touring. It's been a delight having you
on the show. I hope you've enjoyed looking
back at the era that you seem to remember very fondly.
Yeah, yeah. It's, it's reminded me a lot of
a lot of lot of different things that happened.
So that that was yeah, it was fun for me.
Yeah. Thank you.
And thank you again for listening to this week's episode
of Stories from Super Touring. Come back next week, where we'll
be taking a trip to Europe for the first time as we look back
on a controversial 1999 STW title decider at the
Nurburgring. We'll see you next week.
Goodbye.