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Stories from Super Touring. 
Hello and welcome back to Series

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5 of Stories from Super Touring.
And it's been a while since 

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Series 4 ended in June, so we 
thought we'd come back for star 

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of Series 5 with a bang. 
And we've got a cracking guest 

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for you lined up today. 
Now he's won Lamont, he's won 

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pretty much every category of 
Super Touring Championship he 

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could back in the 90s. 
So I'm delighted that joining 

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myself, Levi and Adam today is 
none of the 1999 BTCC Super 

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Touring Champion, Laurent 
Aiello. 

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Laurent, thank you so much for 
joining us on Stories From Super

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Touring. 
You're kicking off Series 5. 

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How are you? 
Oh fine, thanks. 

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Thanks a lot for the irritation.
Not a problem. 

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It's it was good meeting you at 
Brand Satch a few a few months 

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ago. 
Were you impressed with just how

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big a following the the Super 
Touring formula still has even 

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to this day? 
Yeah, I was really surprised, 

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Yes. 
It's always good, you know, it's

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been, it was since 1999. 
I was, I never came back on the 

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on the race track in England, 
you know, and, and now and this 

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time I I remember really well, 
you know, the passion of all the

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people around the track. 
You know, it was like if I was 

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in 99, you know, I could even 
imagine, you know, all these 

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people because most of the time 
we never spend some time, you 

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know, out of the circuit, you 
know, and it was good to see all

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these people and to be together 
with them watching the cars, you

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know, going around. 
It was. 

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I really enjoyed it, you know. 
And I think, I think you don't 

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have the pressures of obviously 
racing like when you was in 99. 

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You're now relaxed, you've come 
back. 

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It's different. 
I find that now you know when 

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when you're racing with people, 
you're you can be friends with 

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some of them, but you're still 
rivals. 

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But now there's no competition 
between. 

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So it's a different atmosphere 
and it's good to relax and and 

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talk about things that you 
haven't spoken about for 20-30 

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years, you know? 
Exactly. 

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And I was also surprised, you 
know, because there was also 

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some of those drivers from the 
BTCC and we never spoke like 

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that together because we, like 
you said, we were on 

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competition. 
And I was really surprised 

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because I had AI had a bad image
of these people in in reality, 

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you see, because we, we want to 
be, you know, you know, like 

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aggressive on the face, you 
know, to show that we are here 

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for warriors, yeah. 
To fight, you know, to fighting 

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each other, you know. 
Well, it's clear to see that 

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obviously you are a massive 
racing enthusiast. 

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Where did the bug bite? 
When did you realise that racing

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was something that you wanted to
get involved in? 

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My first race in go Kart, you 
know, I was the last. 

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I was last. 
OK yeah. 

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And the the first the. 
Only the only time you were 

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last. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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So and the people they want your
to, they wanted to overlap me, 

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you know, and because I was a 
little bit boring alone, I 

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started to raise them, you know,
and then at the end of the 

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ranch, happy about it, you know,
and, and then I understood, you 

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know, that I, I was really 
wrong. 

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And in my head, this was for me 
the starting point of the the 

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that I wanted to fight, you 
know, to, to show that I was 

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not. 
That I was. 

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Yeah, exactly. 
Exactly, exactly that was at 

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this point I realise it. 
Well, you you obviously got 

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better because you were French 
karting champion when you were 

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14, so you must have improved at
some point. 

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Yeah, the, the second race I 
finished 5th and the 3rd I 

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finished third, you know. 
So very quickly I managed to, 

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to, to, to, to get, yeah, some, 
I was a little bit more 

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competitive, you know, race 
after race. 

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And at that time there was a lot
of very good drivers, people 

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like Jacques Taujon, you know 
him because he was racing. 

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Also there was Emmanuel Collard.
There was a lot of people 

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because I was living in Paris at
that time, you know, and there 

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was like we were pushing each 
other, you know, one weekend I 

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was winning and the other one 
was the other guy and he, he 

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was, he found some tricks, you 
know, to go faster. 

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And yeah, we just improve 
ourselves, you know, from race 

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to race. 
And that was, that was really 

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good. 
And I, I did two years, you 

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know, the smallest category at 
that time was they call it 

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minim, Minim, it goes from, it 
was going from 10 to 13. 

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And then the other category was 
Cade, and also for two years. 

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And then after that you're like 
a senior. 

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You race against people like 
30-40 or fifty years old, you 

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know? 
Yeah, yeah. 

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I don't know if it's the same in
England, which must be the same,

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yeah. 
Once you get to 16, you're in 

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the senior category. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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Alright. 
And I was doing the World Cup, 

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the World Championship together 
with Michael Trumauer and 

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Mcneish. 
There was a lot of people like 

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that at that time already. 
We we met each other at that 

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time. 
So we grow up into the 

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categories. 
I OK, I I've never been to 

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Formula One, but at least in 
Formula Three we were still 

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racing together in 3000 also. 
On the subject of Formula Three,

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started racing cars in 1988 and 
then moved into F3 in 1989. 

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At that point, was Formula One a
name, a real ambition for you, 

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or was it more sort of just 
going to each year and seeing 

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how you progressed and getting 
the deal sorted for each year? 

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Yeah, it was, it was that, you 
know, like even in go Kart it 

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was the same for me. 
You know, I wanted to prove 

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myself that I was able to go a 
little bit up each year. 

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And when I started in 99 in 
Formula Three, I was not 

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thinking about formula, Formula 
One because even when I we 

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decided with my father to go to 
make this racing school, formula

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free racing school, I talked to 
my father. 

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But you know that yeah, I'm not 
sure I'm, I'm going to be quick 

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in, in, in, in racing cars. 
You know, I was quick in go 

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karts, but it's different. 
But he said, OK, just let's try 

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and and it work. 
But at that time in 99, I didn't

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know if I was going to be able 
to to grow up into the category.

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Still on to Formula 3 then. 
So you, you competed in Formula 

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3/19/90, winning in Monaca, 
Yeah. 

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So for you as a Frenchman to go 
to Monaco, like how was that? 

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Was was that the first time 
you've been to Monaco? 

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Would you been there before? 
No, no, that was the first time.

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And The funny thing is that on, 
I think it was the Friday night,

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it was my birthday and I had and
I was 21 and in and in casino 

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exactly when I went to the to 
the casino, the guy said, Hey, 

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you're not, you're too young. 
And I said, no, look, look at my

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idea in time, you know, so that 
was the first time. 

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And also I was not supposed to 
go to Monaco because my team was

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not going to Monaco because I 
was doing the French 

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championship with another team 
which was draft racing. 

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And I did Monaco with DGDJ, no 
DGDG, Danielle Gash racing. 

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And I was into Jack Goucho's 
car, which was not invited or 

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whatever in for the race. 
So and then the car was so 

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perfect for the race in the 
rain. 

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I started well because I was 4th
or 5th in on the grid, yeah, but

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then in the race it was raining 
like hell, you know? 

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And and the car was fantastic. 
It what? 

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What's it like winning it like 
such an iconic circuit and venue

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of Monaco? 
It's incredible. 

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That changed my career. 
Yeah, right. 

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Because I was traveling in the 
French championship, I was 

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driving a Renault car with the 
Volkswagen engine. 

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But it wasn't, it was not 
working at all, you know. 

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And before that we were, we 
tried to find some solution 

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with, I was like trying to find 
some money even because I didn't

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get all the budget for the, for 
the, for the season. 

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And I had a very good contact 
with British company, I think, I

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think it was Barclays Bank. 
Oh, yes, yeah. 

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In France and they told me we 
spend like months, you know, 

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talking to each other. 
They were like, OK, maybe, maybe

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not. 
And then suddenly they said, no,

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we we will not follow you for 
with the money, but we will give

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you a contact in England. 
It's a French, it's a, it's a 

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Formula Three team and it's 
Bowman Racing. 

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Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Remember, so please go and see 

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them and let's see what they can
do for you, if maybe they can 

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invite you in a for a race or 
whatever. 

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And I said yeah, OK. 
So I went there and Mr. Bowman 

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at that time, he didn't knew me.
I had, I had, I was, I had a 

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small sponsorship with Marlboro 
as a Marlboro driver, you know, 

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but he didn't knew me at all, 
you know. 

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And The funny thing is that 
maybe one or two months later, I

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won Monaco. 
And then and then he knew me, 

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you know, so and what we, The 
funny thing is also that because

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the car, our car was not working
in the French championship, 

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yeah, we decided to go and see 
him and ask if we can rent him a

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car with the engineer, you know.
So this is what we done. 

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And then suddenly we won four or
five races in a row, you know. 

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So we had the contact and then 
Bowman invited me for the Macao 

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and Fuji race at the end of the 
year. 

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Macao another You had another 
strong performance there, didn't

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you? 
Macao, yeah, but I finished 

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fifth in the first race and 2nd 
in the in the second one. 

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So Global I was 4th, but I 
finished second in Fuji behind 

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the Schumacher. 
So yeah, I had a very good race.

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00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,960
Yeah, yeah. 
That that took you on to Formula

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00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:26,160
3000. 
Then for 1991 again another step

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up the ladder. 
How did you find your first year

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in F3000? 
You know, at the end of 90, 

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after Macao and Fuji race, 
Marlborough Europe invited four 

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00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:46,200
or five Formula Three drivers, I
can't remember. 

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00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:52,000
But there was Akinen for sure. 
There was Ryder I think and we 

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had a test in Le Mans with the 
Formula 3000 from DAMS 91 

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00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:01,560
season, you know. 
And we Akinen was supposed to be

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00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:07,720
the team mate of Alan for the 
9191 season. 

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00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,120
But they invited us, you know, 
just for a present because we 

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00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:16,960
want few races for Marlboro. 
So we were invited and like to 

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00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:21,880
make a test with the car. 
We had like one hour and 2 sets 

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00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,040
of tyres I I think. 
And we could, we could work with

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00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,040
the car, with the engineer and 
do the best we can, you know. 

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00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,760
Yeah. 
And in this day, I went super 

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00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:37,000
fast, you know, I went like in 
one lap, I went like one second 

188
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:41,880
faster than Hakkinen and, and 
the others a little bit more 

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00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:42,840
even. 
Yeah. 

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00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:47,960
And the good thing is that Mika 
decided to go directly to 

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00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,960
Formula One instead of staying 
in, instead of going in 3000, 

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00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:53,600
you know? 
Brilliant. 

193
00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:55,880
Well, it took his place. 
Yeah, so. 

194
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,600
Yeah, big timing, yeah. 
Yeah, it was perfect timing. 

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00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:04,040
And because I didn't get the 
money for doing formally 3000, 

196
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,080
if right, this not happening, 
you know? 

197
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,160
Yeah, yeah, not happening. 
So it was like 90 was a really 

198
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,560
perfect season for me. 
What? 

199
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,480
What was that transition? 
I know I went from Formula 

200
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,320
Renault campus at Alpha 
affiliate at the, the the 

201
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:22,240
scholarship school at Lamont IN 
1999 and I went into Formula 3 

202
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,880
promotion class into 2000. 
So I remember that transition 

203
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,720
going from a single seat that 
hasn't got any power, no 

204
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downforce, not not really good 
brakes into Formula Three. 

205
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,760
It was a big shock to make 
because the tyres are bigger, 

206
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,400
the grip is bigger, the power, 
the brake in and downforce. 

207
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,680
How was that for you going from 
Formula Three to Formula 3000? 

208
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,240
Was that again like your neck 
and everything? 

209
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,080
Was it a big transition? 
Yeah, for sure the neck, but 

210
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:54,320
like this this test in in Le 
Mans, fortunately, I knew the 

211
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,000
circuit perfectly. 
I knew I knew the circuit very 

212
00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,440
well. 
The Bugatti circuit yes and when

213
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,320
you're fighting against the 
stopwatch, you know, you want 

214
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,640
some, even some more power all 
the time out of the corners, you

215
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:12,800
know, so I, I would say that 
yes, I understand what you're 

216
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,800
saying that there is a big 
difference on downforce and 

217
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,680
everything, but because you're 
here to show the people what 

218
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,320
you're able to do, I think 
you're you do. 

219
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,280
I don't know what's happening, 
but I I did it like in a perfect

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00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,120
way. 
I don't know how, but I did it. 

221
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:36,520
You know, I and I test in 94. 
I was, I have been able to test 

222
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,200
the McLaren Peugeot and the 
Jordan Peugeot. 

223
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,960
And again, you know, the power 
was not a problem for me. 

224
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,000
The big difference was the 
braking with the Formula One, 

225
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:51,000
but there was no much so much 
difference in two between 

226
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:55,080
Formula 3 and 3000 that there 
isn't in between 3000 and 

227
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:56,480
Formula One. 
Yeah. 

228
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,080
And it's when the engineer tells
you you can write lighter, you 

229
00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,280
can write lighter. 
And you're like, how is this 

230
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,120
possible? 
No, I went in 94. 

231
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,280
I went to The thing is that when
I did this test with the 

232
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:13,600
McLaren, the last time I was 
I've been driving a a single 

233
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,960
seater was in 92 from my 3000 
and 9394. 

234
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,160
I was in touring car, you know, 
so end of that. 

235
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,240
Big jump again. 
Two years in touring cars and 

236
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,320
then suddenly for Formula One. 
Big shock. 

237
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,120
This was a big shock, I tell 
you. 

238
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,120
And I was, I remember this was 
in Estrille and I was together 

239
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,280
with Jacqui Eklat, which was my 
engineer. 

240
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,840
He, he went to Formula One 
after, you know, I, I was 

241
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:44,000
together with him and we were 
watching Mika Akinen breaking 

242
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,440
down the straight, you know, and
then I don't know if, you know, 

243
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,040
this circuit in that story, 
there was a, the first corner 

244
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,200
was really, really fast. 
At that time he was in fourth 

245
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:59,280
gear and I was expecting him, 
you know, to break up around 100

246
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,800
meter. 
You know, it's normally it's a 

247
00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,480
little bit later than 100, but I
was expecting him there. 

248
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:11,160
But at 100 nothing happened, 18 
nothing happened. 

249
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,800
It just break into the corner, 
you know, in the corner it was. 

250
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,240
And I said to my engineer, 
sorry, but I'm not able to do 

251
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,200
this tomorrow and, and, and, and
the day after I was doing the 

252
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,080
same, you know. 
But the first time is the 

253
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,520
scariest. 
But once you know you can do it 

254
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,840
and someone can prove to you 
that it's possible, every lap is

255
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:32,680
fine. 
But it's that first time, like 

256
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,160
you said, you look at that and 
think that's not possible. 

257
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:37,840
Yeah, I know. 
I remember when I started in 

258
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,920
Formula 3IN in 89, you know, I 
didn't do the circuit, the 

259
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,840
French circuit. 
And sometimes I was asking to 

260
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,520
myself, how is it? 
Is this corner flat? 

261
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,200
You know, And for sure the other
drivers, your opponents, they 

262
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:53,760
say yeah, yeah, easy flat, you 
know. 

263
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,360
Yeah. 
But when you arrive into the 

264
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,160
corner, you, you break you, you 
hold your breath. 

265
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:04,040
Yeah. 
But then you start to to build, 

266
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,079
you know, the speed, you know, 
like first of all, the 

267
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:10,720
confidence, but first brake, you
shift down and then you don't 

268
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,240
brake. 
And what you do is that you put 

269
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,240
flat out and you brake left 
foot, you know, just to slow 

270
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,240
down the car and and then after 
you release the brake and you go

271
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:24,800
flat, you know, but this is 
something to to, to learn, you 

272
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,000
know, and I learned. 
To have built up to it, don't 

273
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,359
you? 
Exactly, Yeah. 

274
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,120
It's, it's interesting you 
mentioned that test actually 

275
00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:34,400
with McLaren at Esteril, because
recently I was listening to 

276
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:39,280
another podcast and they were 
discussing the best F1, the best

277
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,320
test drivers or people who 
tested F1 cars in the 90s that 

278
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:49,080
didn't make it into Formula One.
And your name cropped up and 

279
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,520
the, yeah, the journalist, the 
F1 journalist Mark Hughes said 

280
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,480
that, said that you were 
mightily impressive in that, in 

281
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:57,480
that test. 
So. 

282
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,320
I remember I was not far on lap 
time, you know, and like I said,

283
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,440
two years before, I was doing 
touring cars, you know. 

284
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,640
So for me, I was really happy 
about what I, I, I did this, 

285
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,000
this, this day with the, with 
the, the car. 

286
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:18,240
Because the thing was also at 
the moment, I wanted to go fast,

287
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:20,680
to go flat out in the fast 
corners. 

288
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,160
Yeah, my neck and my arms, 
couldn't you know. 

289
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,360
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

290
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:28,000
That was the point. 
You know, I would. 

291
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:28,600
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

292
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,200
Could have been quicker, but I 
couldn't. 

293
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,080
Physically I couldn't. 
No, it was not possible. 

294
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,760
Like it's a, it's a different 
discipline driving a touring car

295
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,040
at that point, isn't it, you 
know? 

296
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:40,840
Definitely. 
And you yeah, there's nothing 

297
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:46,920
you can do because the year 
after I Jean Pierre Jebouis, you

298
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,880
know, he wanted to show the 
people that touring car drivers 

299
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,680
are able or drivers that are 
able to, to be fast. 

300
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,960
Also in, in Formula One, you 
know, he was Formula One driver 

301
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,400
and he, he loved racing in 
touring cars and he wanted to 

302
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:07,000
show the people and, and in the 
day in the, in the year after 

303
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,600
with Jordan, he was thinking 
that we were going to have more 

304
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,640
opportunities, you know, for me 
to test the car. 

305
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,880
And, and then there was a test 
again in Estoril. 

306
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:26,320
But again, the thing was, the 
problem was physically, but the 

307
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:32,000
the, and then Jean Pierre told 
me, OK, you have to go in the, 

308
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,720
in the, in the gym, try to make 
your own neck stronger in your 

309
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,040
hands and everything. 
So I went there and I did it for

310
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,600
six months. 
And the next test was in the 

311
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:48,760
same circuit, same car, and 
after the same laps, like 50 

312
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,600
laps after, I couldn't turn the 
wheel and even support my neck, 

313
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:59,480
you know, So the only thing you 
can do is drive the car, you 

314
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,880
know, for me, outside is 
bullshit. 

315
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,160
It's just for people to think 
that they, they, you know, 

316
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:08,720
honestly. 
So it's more of a cardio thing 

317
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:09,920
to keep your fitness up, isn't 
it? 

318
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,240
In the gym, As I put like you 
said, the the neck muscles, all 

319
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,440
the muscles you use in a single 
seater is so different to what 

320
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:15,680
you can do in a gym. 
Yeah. 

321
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,880
And also, you know, because of 
the stress, because of the G 

322
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:25,080
force that you cannot reproduce 
in the in the gym, it's really 

323
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:38,540
different. 
So after two years in Formula 

324
00:20:38,540 --> 00:20:42,380
3000, you made the move to 
Touring Cars in 1993. 

325
00:20:42,660 --> 00:20:46,220
What was the reason for that? 
Was there any big factor that 

326
00:20:46,340 --> 00:20:48,300
led to you going into Touring 
cars? 

327
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:57,240
At the end of 92, there was a 
low in France avoiding 

328
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:03,440
sponsorship by cigarettes. 
So yeah, yeah, so, and my 

329
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,600
sponsor was Marlboro and I had a
big budget. 

330
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:12,160
I I had like, how much was it 
like 1,000,000? 

331
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:20,200
I think it was €1,000,000 kind 
of you know, and, and in France 

332
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:31,560
they create like a budget for 
all those sportsman's that they 

333
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,640
lost their money, they lost 
their sponsor, sponsor with the 

334
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,680
cigarettes, you know. 
So I think in France, I was 

335
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:43,080
probably the guy which could 
have, you know, like the, the, 

336
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,840
the, the money back, you know, 
from the minister. 

337
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:52,240
But there was so much politics, 
you know, that I didn't get, I 

338
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:58,320
didn't get the money. 
I only had like not half, but 

339
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,760
even less than that, you know. 
So at that time, I remember Paul

340
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,240
Stewart, they wanted me to race 
in the, in the, in the car. 

341
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:14,240
They offer me for for a small 
budget to race with them, but 

342
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,000
but even I didn't get enough 
money from the minister to to 

343
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,800
join them, so no. 
So I was really, really 

344
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:27,640
disappointed at the end of 92 
because I had a very bad year 

345
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:33,720
also with Pacific Racing. 
Yeah, it was really difficult, 

346
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:38,880
but I don't know what happened, 
but I was nearly stopping. 

347
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:43,120
I was going to stop my career 
because with what happened in, 

348
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,760
in during this year and what 
happened with the government, 

349
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,960
with the this morning, I was 
really, you know, I was off 

350
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,040
completely. 
And then suddenly Yukda Shanak, 

351
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,560
call me. 
I knew him from Formula Three, 

352
00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,440
you know, and he told me, though
I know this is not what you were

353
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,680
expecting and what that was not 
your plan, you know, to do 

354
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,520
touring cars. 
But I have a a Bridget with BMW 

355
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,520
in France for the French 
championship. 

356
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:17,440
And I would like you to come and
test a car in in Puerto Rico and

357
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,400
let me know if you like it. 
And if you like it, I would be 

358
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,640
really happy that you joined the
team with us. 

359
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,560
And then I went there and I 
really, really appreciate 

360
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,240
driving this touring car, you 
know, like in, you know, scene 

361
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,680
corner, which is easy flat with 
a single seat car. 

362
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,800
It's you have to brake, shift 
down and and fight with the car,

363
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:46,640
you know, all around the corner.
And I said, well, it's, it's 

364
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,240
terrible. 
I like it very much. 

365
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,360
And I said, yes, I want to do 
it. 

366
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,240
And we had a perfect year, you 
know, because we were nearly 

367
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,800
beating the the villa with the 
four wheel drive. 

368
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,560
Yeah. 
And, and I had a really great 

369
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,360
experience with, with the Shenak
and the team, because this is a 

370
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,600
a really, really good team. 
And, and they put a lot of 

371
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,520
effort, a lot of pressure 
working a lot. 

372
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,040
And this is where I've, I've 
learned, you know, how to work 

373
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,120
to win the championship, you 
know, because before that I won 

374
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:25,520
some races, but not 
championships into in, in racing

375
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:31,080
cars, you know. 
And so, yeah, 93 was a really 

376
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,680
good year for me. 
Let's say you you didn't have a 

377
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,400
bad record. 
It was pretty good that you 

378
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,400
entered 5 races, you won four of
them and let you say you were 

379
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,280
runner up to Frank Beeler in the
Audi. 

380
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:45,800
You also went to Italy and raced
in two rounds there, finishing 

381
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,240
10th and 4th. 
Did you at that point were you 

382
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,320
thinking right? 
Touring cars is is the future 

383
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,040
for me now. 
This is what I want to do. 

384
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:59,400
Yeah, yeah, definitely yes. 
Because also, like I said, the, 

385
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,920
the way to drive the car, I 
enjoyed it and to work with the 

386
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,080
manufacturer also was really 
good. 

387
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,800
Because to test, you know, I 
remember we were testing tyres, 

388
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:16,320
Michelin tyres. 
It's not easy because it's very 

389
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:21,200
for, for one week. 
You're, you're, you're like 

390
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:27,400
doing everyday, every outing. 
It's like qualifying with the 

391
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:34,080
tyres, you know, but it's, you 
gain so much experience for the 

392
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,600
feeling, for working with the 
engineers. 

393
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:46,120
And also I understood that now I
was not racing for myself, but I

394
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:48,640
was racing for a manufacturer, 
you know? 

395
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,520
Yeah. 
And this is not, it's completely

396
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,160
different. 
You know, it's important to be 

397
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,040
at the, you know, then there is 
2 cars. 

398
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,840
It's better to be, you know, 
beating your partner because 

399
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,600
it's better this way. 
But at least you know that 

400
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,080
you're not working only for 
yourself, but for the 

401
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,000
manufacturer. 
So that so that moved to Peugeot

402
00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:14,600
in 94. 
How? 

403
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,560
How did that connection with 
Peugeot come about? 

404
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,680
Yeah, because, because Jean 
Pierre in 93 was still racing in

405
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,960
touring cars with Peugeot. 
That's four or five. 

406
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:30,880
And yeah, and so we were racing 
against each other, but out of 

407
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,640
the car, we were always talking 
about tires and taking the 

408
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,160
techniques, you know, and I I 
think he appreciated, you know, 

409
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:43,680
and and then at the end of 93, 
he knew that he was going to be 

410
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,400
sport chef at Peugeot. 
And he told me, Laurent, I would

411
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,160
like you to test the McLaren 
Peugeot. 

412
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:53,920
I would like you to be a test 
driver. 

413
00:26:54,760 --> 00:27:00,320
But if you for that, it's 
necessary that you become a a 

414
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,560
touring car driver for us also 
because they had some other 

415
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:11,160
driver from the 905 you remember
there. 

416
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,800
Was like, yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, it's tough, Bouche and 

417
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,640
some others, you know, and he 
told me that, yeah, I cannot 

418
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,640
propose you to come only for 
Formula One test. 

419
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,760
You have to join us for for 
touring cars. 

420
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:32,320
And I said, yeah, OK. 
I was so disappointed for UG, 

421
00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:38,640
the Chennai because this year 
with UG was so like I'm in the 

422
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,920
relationship was so strong, you 
know, that I was not happy to to

423
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,840
leave him. 
But at the end of the day, when 

424
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,920
I told him what was the plan 
from Jean Pierre, he told me, 

425
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,760
OK, I cannot fight against 
Formula One. 

426
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,160
If you have an opportunity, 
yeah, you have to go. 

427
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,640
Then I went. 
It's a good proposition, isn't 

428
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:00,600
it? 
Like you come and test the 

429
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,680
McLaren, but I'll let you do the
test in the McLaren. 

430
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,440
But you needed to race the 
Peugeot touring car. 

431
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,320
OK then. 
OK. 

432
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,720
Yeah, no, but I mean, like I 
said, you know, I was happy to 

433
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,560
do the the the touring car 
programme, you know, and I think

434
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:22,080
that it's very important because
I think there's some driver, 

435
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,720
they were good drivers in single
seat, you know, and they were 

436
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,920
not so good in touring cars 
because I think first of all, 

437
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:32,600
they didn't really want it to be
there at that time, you know? 

438
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,240
No, that's right. 
You understand. 

439
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,640
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
We've, we've a few people who've

440
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,760
said that, that, you know, they,
they saw it almost as a step 

441
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,280
down. 
Exactly. 

442
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,760
You know, they, they were 
looking down their noses at it 

443
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,520
and and not really appreciating 
it for what it was. 

444
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,480
Yeah, exactly. 
And it was the contrary for me. 

445
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,400
Yeah. 
Yeah, that's great. 

446
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,160
I. 
Think you, you, you embraced it 

447
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,200
and you got the most out of it, 
which is the which is a good 

448
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:57,960
thing, a really good thing. 
Yeah. 

449
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,680
Career, your career is probably 
longer in touring cars than it 

450
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,280
would be as a Formula One 
driver. 

451
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,280
Touring cars you, if you stay 
with the manufacturers and you 

452
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,920
know you're getting paid to 
race, that's likely to happen 

453
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,440
for a lot longer than a stint in
Formula One. 

454
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,760
For sure. 
One thing I would love to, to, 

455
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,600
to ask you about Iran is a lot 
of drivers we've had on the show

456
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,560
have talked about their single 
seated background and coming up 

457
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:28,000
through the the single seater 
formula and learning to race 

458
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,840
rear wheel drive cars throughout
their junior career and early 

459
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,040
career. 
And then suddenly stepping into 

460
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,680
a front wheel drive touring car.
Now obviously you went from BMW,

461
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,360
which would have been rear wheel
into the Peugeot, which was 

462
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,480
front wheel drive. 
Was that a hard to sort of reset

463
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,640
the brain almost and think I 
need to really change the way I 

464
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:51,400
drive? 
Is it a? 

465
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:56,560
Is it a hard transition? 
It was there was a huge 

466
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,200
difference for sure, but I had 
no choice. 

467
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,920
So I changed my mind completely,
you know, and I said, OK, forget

468
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,440
the, the, the rear wheel drive. 
And now you have to work to make

469
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:16,680
this car fast and not only fast,
but that you can, you know, last

470
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,480
and win the races, you know, And
it was not easy because like you

471
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:27,200
probably know that you are, you 
work on the front tyres for the 

472
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,760
braking, the turning and 
accelerating. 

473
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:36,920
So I understood very quickly 
that I had, that I had to have 

474
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,560
the car turning into the corners
by itself, you know, just to 

475
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,920
release a little bit, you know, 
the pressure on the tyres. 

476
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,280
Yeah. 
And the effort on the tyres. 

477
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:56,040
And with the, I started with the
4-5 and then in that, with the 

478
00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:01,600
4-6, yeah, it was even. 
We went step forward, you know. 

479
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,920
Yeah, yeah. 
Because also the other problem 

480
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:12,280
is on the starting grade, you 
know, it's all it's, it was also

481
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,160
difficult, you know, to start 
well with the front wheel drive 

482
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:23,040
compared to the BMWs or, or the,
the Audis, you know, So, but it 

483
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,400
was interesting. 
But because we work a lot and we

484
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,760
managed to get solution to make 
it work to make it work. 

485
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,800
But like you said, it was really
strange at the the the first 

486
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,200
time I went to the four O 5 
Peugeot accelerating out of the 

487
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,160
corners that the, the, the front
was not just like pushing, 

488
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,600
pushing and going over, I mean 
coal. 

489
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,040
Rates tires as well yeah, 
because you've gone from having 

490
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,560
temperature you know where you 
stand with the rear wheel drive 

491
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,640
car but. 
You know, for me the front wheel

492
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,320
drive is faster. 
Why? 

493
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:03,440
Because especially in the fast 
corners when you just start to 

494
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,200
lose the the rear with the rear 
wheel drive, when you lose it, 

495
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,560
it's finished. 
Yeah, can't do anything. 

496
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:11,920
Yeah, at least with the front 
wheel drive. 

497
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:13,520
See opposite. 
You put your foot further down 

498
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:14,800
the throttle. 
Yeah, exactly. 

499
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,880
So it means that you can go 
closer to the limit, the grip 

500
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,520
limit. 
So it means that you can go 

501
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,320
faster in the fast corners. 
For me, a front wheel drive, you

502
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:35,040
know, and also one of the thing 
when I came to to Nissan in 99, 

503
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:41,320
I asked them to put me more 
power steering in the because 

504
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,320
for me the steering was too 
heavy. 

505
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:48,600
And in this fast corner I had to
control, you know, the slide and

506
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,920
the grip with my with my 
steering, you know, so they put 

507
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,040
me a double pump. 
Oh, OK. 

508
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,680
They were a little bit surprised
about it, but yeah, it worked 

509
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:14,630
perfectly for me. 
It's difficult a jump to front 

510
00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:18,710
wheel drive was in 1994. 
It you adapted very quickly, 

511
00:33:18,710 --> 00:33:21,670
clearly, because you took eleven
wins that year to take the 

512
00:33:21,670 --> 00:33:26,360
title, being Alan Khudini and 
Ivan Muller. 

513
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,720
That must have felt like a 
pretty good year. 

514
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,200
Even if in 93 it was good, 94 
must have been even better for 

515
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,400
you. 
Yeah, like I said, you know, 

516
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,520
this was my first championship 
win in 94. 

517
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:47,920
And because like I said again in
I I've learned in 93 from Oreika

518
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,520
team, you know, how to build a 
championship win. 

519
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:58,040
And This is why in 94, OK, the 
car was was good, definitely 

520
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,880
good. 
But this also came from the fact

521
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,480
that I've learned in 93 how to 
win. 

522
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,440
Sometimes if you cannot win, 
it's better to finish second, 

523
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:13,679
take points, you know, and then 
and in 93, I was probably not 

524
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:17,800
prepared well prepared for that 
at that time. 

525
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:23,199
And and I put everything all 
together in 94 to make it 

526
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:27,520
happen. 
It's funny that growing up I 

527
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:33,960
used to think it bizarre that 
Peugeot could win a touring car 

528
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:41,159
race because in Britain the 
Peugeots were so poor and yet 

529
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,159
the ones out in France, in Italy
were winning. 

530
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:47,159
They were winning races. 
You won the championship. 

531
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,880
It was mad to see the 
differences between Peugeot UK 

532
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,320
and Peugeot France. 
They were totally different 

533
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,240
cars. 
They didn't seem to be able we 

534
00:34:57,240 --> 00:35:00,680
there was, there wasn't any 
working together and on on those

535
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,440
programmes at all, which is a 
real shame because I think if 

536
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,720
they had done, Peugeot could 
have done a lot better in 

537
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:09,160
Britain and at the time as well.
Yeah, definitely. 

538
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,480
I don't know exactly what were 
the difference, but from what I 

539
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:21,640
remember, the engineer told me 
that sometime when they tried to

540
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:26,000
help, they were not listening, 
they didn't wanted to try what 

541
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,680
we were doing with the car. 
So, but even sometimes, you 

542
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:35,800
know, it's not only having a 
car, you know, it's a question 

543
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:41,240
of also the feeling in between 
the the driver and his own 

544
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,920
engineer, you know, because even
in the same team you can have 

545
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,160
big differences in term of 
performance. 

546
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,880
It shouldn't be the case, but 
it's it's a fact. 

547
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,800
You know you can have the best 
car and not having the the same 

548
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,280
results or the same performance.
I think you you could definitely

549
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,960
say that there was a big 
difference and we we were just 

550
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,480
shocked as fans of racing, fans 
of touring cars, just to see if 

551
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,560
you just expect them to be the 
same 2 Peugeot. 

552
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,120
Two different. 
Champions you just as a fan You,

553
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,360
you, you scratch your head 
thinking, well, why is that car 

554
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,080
not winning? 
But this car is winning. 

555
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,920
But but you said there's so many
different factors to consider, 

556
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,400
tyres, tyre compounds as well. 
It's it's a funny 1 isn't it? 

557
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,120
Like you say, you just thought 
assumed they were the same cars,

558
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,720
but they were very different. 
Yeah, they were. 

559
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,120
So Lauren, you see your final 
year in the French championship 

560
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,400
in 95, you finished third with 
one win, the season opener. 

561
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,600
Was that a tough year with 
development and everything? 

562
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,400
Was that a difficult one for 
you? 

563
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:51,120
In reality they tried to to make
for sure a better car for 95 and

564
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,360
what they done wasn't better, it
was worse. 

565
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,800
The car was slow. 
Down the street. 

566
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,360
They tried to put the, the 
engine lower and backwards, you 

567
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,640
know, but then it didn't work at
all. 

568
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:07,000
And we were slow down the 
straight, you know. 

569
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:12,400
So we were, they were quite hard
during the season to try to 

570
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,000
improve that. 
But the fact was that the engine

571
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,760
was already bridged like that, 
like this, you know, and we 

572
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,160
couldn't change it. 
So we tried to, to work on 

573
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,920
different areas to, to, to try 
to gain some, some speed and, 

574
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,640
and it worked OK. 
We finished third. 

575
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:33,240
Only one win. 
You said. 

576
00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:34,360
I don't, I don't remember. 
Yeah. 

577
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,720
Yeah, yeah, one win, season 
opener. 

578
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,200
They started well, so the 
championship started well for 

579
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,400
the win, so you must not have 
been really shocked after then 

580
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,240
thinking what's happened. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

581
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,120
I don't. 
To be honest, I don't remember 

582
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,080
looking at you 5. 
That's that's because it wasn't 

583
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:50,680
your best year, so you just 
forget about that. 

584
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:51,720
We don't need to talk about 
that. 

585
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:52,840
Let's talk about the 
championship. 

586
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,040
Wins, that's what. 
We want to talk about. 

587
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,800
Yeah, but even we finished 
third, so it wasn't bad. 

588
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:01,840
Completely bad, you know, But 
the French championship was 

589
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,880
really hard. 
There was a lot of competition 

590
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:08,480
with. 
There was not many cars, but the

591
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,400
competition was there. 
Really. 

592
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,480
Yeah. 
There are some very fast cars, 

593
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,560
yeah. 
Yeah, having looked through some

594
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,800
of the names that were on the 
entry list, I mean there were 

595
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,160
some really top quality drivers 
there, weren't there? 

596
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,680
Yes, yeah, sure. 
And there was, I remember that 

597
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,680
one called Alan Kudini, maybe 
you know his name. 

598
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:31,440
He he was also doing DTM in the 
in the in the 80s. 

599
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,720
This guy was nearly 50 at that 
time. 

600
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:40,760
And he was so fast and he was 
beating, you know, the, the 

601
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,400
young, the young drivers in the 
team, you know, and say it was 

602
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,680
good because I took a lot of 
experience driving against these

603
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,720
people, you know? 
Into 1996 then and you remained 

604
00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:58,080
with Peugeot but you moved to 
Germany and the STW Cup and also

605
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,320
racing the new Four O 6 model 
Peugeot. 

606
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,600
Was that a big improvement on 
the Four O 5 that you'd had in 

607
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,160
95? 
Yeah, sure, definitely, 

608
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:10,400
definitely. 
Yeah. 

609
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:17,560
But 96, I think we finished 
third, third in the 

610
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,720
championship. 
Yeah, I think we won one race. 

611
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:25,800
I don't remember exactly. 
But again, coming into a new 

612
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,720
championship is there is you 
need some time, you know, to 

613
00:39:29,720 --> 00:39:32,440
adapt. 
And because you don't know the 

614
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,520
circuits and all these things 
and you don't know the the 

615
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,960
championship itself itself, you 
know, like the people involved, 

616
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:45,640
the drivers, the everything. 
And so myself and the team, we 

617
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:51,760
had to to learn, you know, and 
this is what we did in, in 96 in

618
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,160
a good way, because finishing 
third is, is, is, is good 

619
00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:00,680
already. 
And we also learned that if we 

620
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:05,040
wanted to win the championship, 
we had to, to play the same 

621
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,560
game. 
That's the the German teams were

622
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,320
doing like they they were like 
choosing a driver at the 

623
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,840
beginning of the season into the
team. 

624
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,560
And work for him, you know, and 
they right. 

625
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,120
And they were like really 
working. 

626
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,240
For for one driver, yeah, yeah. 
But and also the other driver, 

627
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:26,920
the other cars, they, they were 
like, I don't know how to say, 

628
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:31,640
but to make it difficult for the
opponents, you know, I'm talking

629
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:37,240
about, you know, like with BMW 
or Audi, it was a little bit 

630
00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:42,200
difficult to fight alone against
3-4 cars, you know, sometimes. 

631
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,480
So we understood in 96 that we 
had to do something for that for

632
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:53,880
97 and OK, and the car, we 
improved the car. 

633
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:55,760
The car was fantastic at that 
time. 

634
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:03,720
And 97 was the year that the car
has been built around my style 

635
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:05,560
of driving. 
Yeah, really. 

636
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:14,760
Because the year 90, I mean, 96,
I don't remember. 

637
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,920
Yeah, there was Alfred Egger 
with us. 

638
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,720
Yes, yeah, we. 
Didn't know exactly what it was 

639
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:24,360
a new car. 
So we, we had some experience 

640
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:32,160
from, from the 4-5, but the IO 
was even more on 1996 you see. 

641
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:37,080
So but what we learned that the 
fact that we have to save the 

642
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:41,880
tyres and the car has to be, you
know, quite aggressive in 

643
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:46,640
downforce. 
We put it together in 96 and 

644
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:51,200
even better for 97 and the car 
was fantastic. 

645
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:52,960
So beautiful looking car as 
well. 

646
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,000
That 97 pleasure. 
It's one of the iconic super 

647
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,240
tours isn't it? 
So much so that when you when 

648
00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:03,320
you met Jake, who was racing 
your Nissan at Brands Hatch, he 

649
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,320
had a a model that he got you to
sign, didn't he? 

650
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:11,280
It's it's it's it's, it's one of
the more, the more stand out 

651
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:12,880
cars. 
It's a beautiful car, I think. 

652
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,480
I agree especially the the front
aisle. 

653
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,240
For me the shape, the shape was 
perfect. 

654
00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:23,480
It was really nice look looking 
car. 

655
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:30,800
With with those cars now in the 
9697 time that is when they took

656
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,520
Alpha had come to the BTCC and 
put the front wings and rear 

657
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,600
wings on the car and eventually 
everyone went with front and 

658
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,440
rear wings. 
Did you prefer the cars with the

659
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:46,520
aero with more grip or did you 
like the the more loose feeling 

660
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:51,440
cars without the aero on them? 
No, I prefer the with more aero 

661
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,680
because the most grip you have 
the better you. 

662
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,600
The faster you go. 
The faster you go, but even with

663
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,080
a lot of downfall, you're still 
sliding. 

664
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,120
You know, even the formula ones,
you can't see it. 

665
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,360
But if you have, if you have a 
slow motion, you see that you 

666
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,920
know in the fast corners they 
are sliding 4 wheels, you know. 

667
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:14,000
And like you say that year then 
you had 11 race wins in 97 and 

668
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,200
and he beat Joe Winklehoff to 
the title and in his own 

669
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,000
backyard. 
That must have felt good, yeah. 

670
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,280
But Joe is, I really loved this 
guy. 

671
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:29,680
He was, he was a perfect driver.
You know, honestly, we have a 

672
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:35,440
fair, we had a fair battle in 
the championship with him. 

673
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,120
Yeah, around, like I said, you 
know, there was some other 

674
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,720
driver from the BMW that they 
were, you know, like pushing me 

675
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:51,080
apart, you know, but but Binky 
was a great driver to to fight 

676
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:52,000
against. 
Really. 

677
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,080
Yeah. 
Lovely, lovely guy too. 

678
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,920
Yeah, yeah, very nice. 
They they called him Smokin Joe 

679
00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:59,320
here. 
Smokin Joe Yeah, yeah. 

680
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,800
So much smoking. 
Yeah, I remember there was also 

681
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,760
another driver, Erica, Larry, 
yes, you, you know him. 

682
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,480
And I remember when we were 
doing DTM to get all together. 

683
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:16,960
There was I remember the race in
Sax where Alex Sanardi had his 

684
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,280
accident. 
Oh, I know, yes. 

685
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,960
Loudest thing, loudest thing. 
I remember. 

686
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:27,600
I don't know why this this race 
is the most difficult race in in

687
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,720
the championship. 
It's really strange because you 

688
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:33,800
have long straight that you can,
you know, like just relax. 

689
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,240
But in reality, not at all. 
I don't know why, but at the end

690
00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:42,600
of the race everybody was like 
dead, You know, I remember 

691
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,160
Manuel Reuter. 
He was just, they asked for hair

692
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:52,600
for some hair, you know, and you
had smoking Joe and Eric out of 

693
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:58,400
the car, just the two of them. 
It was, it was really funny. 

694
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,720
He, he, he, he needed your 
Marlborough sponsorship for many

695
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:05,400
years ago. 
Yes, yeah, sure. 

696
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:11,520
In into 1998 and sort of aside 
from your exploits in touring 

697
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,640
cars, you had six wins that year
and you were second in the 

698
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,000
championship behind Johnny 
Ciccotto. 

699
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,480
Was that a bit of a a down year 
in terms of performance or 

700
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,120
because obviously your main 
focus probably was in terms of 

701
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,000
going to or your main 
achievement that is we're going 

702
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,120
to Le Mans and winning first 
time out, which is not bad 

703
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:32,880
going, is it? 
How? 

704
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:34,720
How was that experience of Le 
Mans? 

705
00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:40,960
The experience of Le Mans it, it
was really strange because I was

706
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,400
not supposed to do it because I 
didn't want to do it because 

707
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,280
Eric. 
Yeah, no, I didn't wanted to do 

708
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:53,880
it because Eric Ellery told me 
year before, years before that, 

709
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:59,120
that Le Mans was really 
dangerous, you know, and because

710
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,600
when it's raining during the 
night of foggy and all these 

711
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,320
things, you know, so I didn't 
really wanted to do it. 

712
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,320
And I was really focused into 
Sprint races into my 

713
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,360
championship. 
You know, I was not considering 

714
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:17,760
any endurance races because I 
know how difficult it is to to 

715
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,080
win the championship. 
You win the championship for 

716
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:27,720
details, you know, and indrance 
racing is everything, but not 

717
00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:30,320
details because you have to 
share everything. 

718
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:35,200
You have to share this the seat 
position, the the, the setting 

719
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:41,520
of the car. 
And so the, the position is one 

720
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:46,240
thing important that doing, you 
know, 24 hours in the car, in 

721
00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:51,240
the car or not 24 hours, but 8 
hours. 

722
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:57,400
This is the worst position I've 
ever had in my career. 

723
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:05,720
Every in 98992000 and 2001, you 
know, even in 2000 or 98 big I 

724
00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:08,640
was together with Alan Mcnish 
and Stefan Artilli. 

725
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,120
They are. 
We are the same height, you 

726
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:11,800
know. 
Yeah, so. 

727
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:13,440
Perfect height. 
They chose all three of you. 

728
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:19,120
For a yeah, yeah, should have 
been a good, good, good 

729
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,640
solution, you know, because we 
normally got the, the, the 

730
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,880
advantage of not changing the, 
the seats, you know, So this is 

731
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,680
what we've done. 
But one has longer arms and the 

732
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,560
other one has longer legs, you 
know. 

733
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:38,920
So this is not this is not 
something that I really liked. 

734
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:44,360
And I was again like, like 
saying I was not planning to do 

735
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:48,360
the 24 hours level of Le Mans, 
but I was into the German 

736
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:55,720
championship in the STW and a 
guy from Porsche went working to

737
00:47:55,720 --> 00:48:00,000
Peugeot, Germany. 
And when he came there, he he 

738
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:05,800
went and asked me, Laurent, are 
you interested in for Le Mans 24

739
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,920
Hours with, with Porsche? 
And I said, no, no, I'm not 

740
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,160
interesting. 
But you know, I give you my 

741
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:16,200
phone number and we never know 
tell told them to to call me and

742
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,480
see see what, what, what we can 
do. 

743
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:26,160
And, but really I was not 
really, I was not interesting 

744
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,920
about doing it. 
But then I spoke to Eric Hillary

745
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,080
and I told him, Eric, I have a 
proposition, a proposal from 

746
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:39,520
from Porsche. 
And he said to me, well, Porsche

747
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:43,480
and Lemoore is Porsche, so you 
should better think about it. 

748
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:48,400
And I think about it. 
And then they call me and they 

749
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:53,000
propose me to race together with
Alan, which I've. 

750
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:57,320
I was teammate in 91. 
Yeah, yeah, 1000. 

751
00:48:57,720 --> 00:49:01,600
And Stefano Telly, I was also 
teammate in 94, I guess 

752
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,160
something like that, you know. 
So I really appreciate the two 

753
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,840
of them, you know. 
So I said to myself, OK, why 

754
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,800
not? 
OK, in this condition, maybe I 

755
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:15,200
try that, you know. 
And then I went there. 

756
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:21,200
I test the car few weeks ago in 
Puerto Rico. 

757
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:25,360
I, I just make like a one day 
testing and I, we went to the 

758
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:29,400
race and we won the race, you 
know, so amazing. 

759
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,440
But drop the mic. 
I mean, you know, OK, put it in 

760
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,200
my pocket and. 
Yeah. 

761
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:39,920
Thank you very much. 
No, but it was to be honest, it 

762
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,880
was a good experience. 
It was a good experience. 

763
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,480
It's not easy. 
Again, it's very dangerous, 

764
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:50,040
especially in the night, in the 
night time during and when it's 

765
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,200
raining, it's it's, it's a 
nightmare. 

766
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,920
I did not enjoy at all, you 
know, because there's nothing 

767
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,720
you can do with some somebody, 
you know, because when you're 

768
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:04,000
following the cars, you, you, 
you can't see anything. 

769
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:08,920
The lights on the on the back 
you don't see you just see that 

770
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,560
there there there are more water
coming. 

771
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,560
So means that you're approaching
the other car, But you know, if 

772
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:21,520
this car is, you know entering 
the pits with a broken, you know

773
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:26,040
going 200 K slower than you, you
you don't know you go in the 

774
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:30,200
middle of the the the race track
and just pray that there's 

775
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,960
nothing happened. 
You know no, so this is not a 

776
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,120
good feeling, but apart from 
that, it was a good experience. 

777
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:39,000
What we what we did with Stefan 
and Alan. 

778
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:55,360
At the end of the 98 the the the
rumors were that you were 

779
00:50:55,360 --> 00:51:02,000
offered a drive with Renault in 
the BTCC for 99 and you turned 

780
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,600
it down because they wouldn't 
let you race at Lamar. 

781
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:09,960
Is that true or? 
No, it's not for that reason. 

782
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:10,760
No. 
OK. 

783
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,840
Interesting that that was the 
that was the story was reported 

784
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,160
at the time. 
No, that was not the reason. 

785
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:21,120
So I've been in contact with 
Frank Williams and this before 

786
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,200
that with Didier Dubai. 
Yes, you remember. 

787
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:25,080
Him. 
Yeah, yeah. 

788
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:31,720
And so we start to talk together
and I had a good contact with 

789
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,520
with Didier, so I told him what 
I was expecting and what was 

790
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:40,920
going to be my condition. 
Yeah, financial condition. 

791
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:46,440
Yes, yeah. 
And, and then we, we had a 

792
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:51,760
couple of discussions, phone 
call I would say, and and then I

793
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:55,920
had a meeting with, with, with 
Frank Williams and Patrick Head.

794
00:51:56,280 --> 00:52:03,360
And the the problem was was a 
problem of money. 

795
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,920
Fair enough, I think. 
I think Williams were well known

796
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,840
for being slightly tight, should
we say? 

797
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:16,360
Yeah. 
Patrick Head would have had 

798
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,480
something to do with this. 
Wouldn't they just know it? 

799
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:19,600
Maybe we're not. 
We're not. 

800
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:23,800
Paying him that much? 
They told me, you know, this is 

801
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:28,000
not what we are paying both of 
of our drivers, what you're what

802
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,440
you're asking for. 
So I said yeah, well, OK, I'm 

803
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:32,040
sorry. 
Yeah. 

804
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,000
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, I had also a contact with 

805
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,800
Nissan at that time with Alec 
Poole because, and I knew Alec, 

806
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:43,760
you know, from STW also because 
he was coming and I had a really

807
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,880
good relationship with together 
with him, you know. 

808
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:51,440
So Horner wanted to talk to me. 
So I talk to them. 

809
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:57,880
But already in my mind, you 
know, I was my preference was 

810
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,240
going for the project with Alec 
and Lisa. 

811
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,520
And your your friend Jean 
Christophe got the job there 

812
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,640
instead, yes. 
Buffy. 

813
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,000
So, so in 99 and obviously all 
the listeners are going to be, 

814
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,120
you know, wanting you to talk 
about this piece, particularly 

815
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,200
because this is what you're 
known for in the BTCC. 

816
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:20,680
So obviously you've just touched
on your Nissan connections, but 

817
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:25,040
what were your aims with coming?
What did you come in wanting and

818
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:26,960
expecting to win in your first 
year? 

819
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,680
Or was this like a 2-3 year 
because you wouldn't have known 

820
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,320
the circuits either so that was 
difficult for you? 

821
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,680
Exactly, exactly. 
And I was always thinking the 

822
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:39,800
same, that one year for learning
and the other, the second tried 

823
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:43,800
to win the championship and that
was the program for me. 

824
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:53,240
And but then I understood that 
that Nissan, they were going to 

825
00:53:53,240 --> 00:53:55,920
pull out, you know, to be 
honest, I don't know if I knew 

826
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,720
it when I sign it, but I, it was
this also, The thing is that 

827
00:53:59,720 --> 00:54:04,360
there was also the GTM, you 
know, I knew already that they 

828
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,000
were going to have the new GTM 
in 2000. 

829
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,760
And I was also very interesting 
about it, you know, to be right 

830
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,280
from the start of this 
championship, to know exactly 

831
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:18,160
what you need. 
Yeah, you know, again, you know,

832
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:22,280
to be there in the first year, 
to know what you need for being 

833
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,720
a champion, you know. 
It's the same for everybody. 

834
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:29,760
Then isn't. 
It exactly so honestly, when you

835
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,040
start a championship, it's for 
winning it. 

836
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:36,600
You know, I think all the 
drivers on the on the grid OK 

837
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:42,640
and but yeah, I was Nissan. 
I knew that I had a chance to to

838
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:49,720
have the car and then it was, it
was up to me to be competitive 

839
00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:54,120
as fast as possible, you know, 
But I I was not expecting to be 

840
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:58,480
leading the championship, you 
know, after several races, you 

841
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:03,720
know, the Star was a little bit 
difficult in the first race, but

842
00:55:03,720 --> 00:55:08,920
then, yeah, also because it was 
it was really hard. 

843
00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:14,120
You know, like drivers in 
England, they know the circuit 

844
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:15,640
perfectly. 
You know you've. 

845
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,480
Been there for years. 
Exactly. 

846
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,360
And there there was like 
corners, like medium corners, 

847
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:26,600
which are not typical corners 
normally, but in, in England 

848
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:33,880
they were because like compared 
to, compared to McNeil or I 

849
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:37,680
remember some corners in 
Brundage, there was a corner 

850
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:44,920
that Manny Matt was all the time
nearly ten or seven K faster 

851
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:49,480
than myself and David. 
And we didn't know how to do it,

852
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:54,840
you know, And it was the case 
for for for me, but it also for 

853
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,120
David. 
So, and there was plenty of them

854
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:02,680
during the season, you know, and
when I started on the testing, 

855
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,640
it was, it was difficult for me 
because sometimes I was a little

856
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,080
bit far away, you know, on that 
time. 

857
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:14,160
And like I said, the first race 
again, we were not so much 

858
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,120
competitive. 
I don't know why, but in this 

859
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:21,840
race, David and myself, we were 
not, we were not fast for this 

860
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:27,120
first race. 
And but then it was better 

861
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:31,680
after, fortunately, but. 
The second race. 

862
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:34,280
The second it was it. 
I don't remember. 

863
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,800
The second meeting, Yeah. 
Yeah, the second meeting. 

864
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,520
Yeah, your first one. 
Yeah, Darlington. 

865
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,160
Darlington was the opener and 
that you say it was a struggle, 

866
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:46,240
but then you go to Silverstone 
and yeah, you win, You win 

867
00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:50,560
there. 
And then you went to Thruxton. 

868
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,400
I'd love to know your thoughts 
on Thruxton because obviously 

869
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:57,760
it's a new track for you. 
It's what, what, what did you 

870
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,240
think of Thruxton as a unique, 
as a newcomer? 

871
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:06,000
Roxton It was terrible for me. 
Like the first testing we made 

872
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:09,280
we did was two, one or two weeks
before the race. 

873
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,840
And so we spend there, all the 
manufacturers, they were there. 

874
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:21,320
And so and we spend a complete 
day testing, testing the car. 

875
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:27,040
And after one day, at the end of
the day, I was 1 1/2 seconds 

876
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:32,240
slower than David even by 
putting four or five sets of new

877
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:37,480
tires, you know. 
So I said to myself, I don't 

878
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:42,520
know if I'm going to be racing 
for there because I'm too far, 

879
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,960
you know. 
And so when I saw that I was not

880
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:49,920
fast on lap time, I decided to 
work for the for the race, you 

881
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:55,520
know, And then I started the 
first lap out was OK second was 

882
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:58,480
still OK. 
But then in the third, I started

883
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,680
to lose the car in the fast 
corners, you know, and it was 

884
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:03,320
getting even worse and worse, 
you know? 

885
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,240
So then I decided to stop in the
pits and talk to my engineer, 

886
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:11,000
Ludovic. 
I think, yeah, it's better not 

887
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,720
to go because we're going to be 
like clowns, you know, if we if 

888
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:20,080
we do that, you know. 
And OK, so we went back home 

889
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:25,280
and, you know, everything worked
in my head, you know, and when I

890
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,720
came back for the race in the 
quality, the first quality, I 

891
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:32,920
think I was 3 or 410 from the 
pool. 

892
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:37,200
And the second quality, I was 
110 or something like that, I 

893
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,840
don't remember exactly. 
And I won the two races you did.

894
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:46,360
And I and I realized in the two 
first laps that they weren't in 

895
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,680
the in the same sheet than that 
I was, you know, during the 

896
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,760
testing, you know, that after 
three laps the car is just 

897
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:58,360
sliding around everywhere. 
So I said, OK, we'll do that. 

898
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,600
Yeah. 
So and I was, and I was really, 

899
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:06,720
really happy because honestly, I
was completely down after this 

900
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:07,480
testing. 
I can. 

901
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:08,440
Imagine. 
Yeah. 

902
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:12,200
It must have been a real relief,
like, wait, thank you, thank you

903
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:13,320
a lot. 
It's all gone well. 

904
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:15,240
Incredible. 
It's a good job. 

905
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:19,040
You turned up, you, you didn't, 
you didn't want to go to the 

906
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,200
Thruxton. 
So it's a good job you arrived, 

907
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:24,400
went to the race. 
It's not too bad, is it? 

908
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:29,200
Those two races there at 
Throxton were memorable for 

909
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:32,520
Ricardo Rydell and you having 
the most incredible battle 

910
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:35,560
coming down to the final 
chicane. 

911
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:39,520
It was brilliant racing and as 
you say you you triumphed and 

912
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:45,520
took both wins and then you 
moved on to Brands Hatch where I

913
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:49,000
don't know if you remember Alan 
GAO at the start of the year 

914
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:54,200
said any driver that could win 4
races in a row I would give 

915
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:58,480
£250,000 to. 
Yeah, I remember that. 

916
00:59:58,640 --> 00:59:59,800
Yeah. 
What happened? 

917
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:05,400
What happened? 
No, I, yeah, I don't know. 

918
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:12,120
I, I mean, I was fighting with 
fighting with Anthony and I was 

919
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:15,880
going to pass him, you know, But
then in the in the straight, you

920
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:19,760
know, in the right corner down 
the street, we touched each 

921
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:22,800
other. 
And Mueller break into the the 

922
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:28,400
1st and then I've lost the race 
and I've lost the 250. 

923
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,160
But to be honest, at that time I
was not thinking about the 

924
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:32,160
money. 
I don't know. 

925
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:36,240
I was just thinking about the 
championship when they asked me 

926
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:38,280
after the race, are you 
disappointed? 

927
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:42,880
I was saying no, No, I'm not. 
I'm not disappointed because I 

928
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,400
took some points and then I'm 
just focused on the championship

929
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:51,160
and and before the race I was 
not thinking about the money, 

930
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:55,640
you know, yeah, a few months 
later I would have to, to be 

931
01:00:55,640 --> 01:01:03,200
honest, it was a little. 
Bit it was quite It's one of the

932
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:04,920
famous pictures of the era, 
though. 

933
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:10,280
Is that you 3 yourself, Anthony 
and Ivan all going into paddock 

934
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,000
neck and neck. 
It's a wonderful photograph. 

935
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:16,040
I mean, how Ivan pulled that 
move off. 

936
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:17,880
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm not quite 
sure. 

937
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:19,800
It's, it's very Ivan Muller, 
wasn't it? 

938
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,080
It was a very typical Ivan move.
Yeah, yeah, it was. 

939
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:27,640
And I was, I think I was in the 
middle, so I was a little bit 

940
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:28,600
blocked. 
And. 

941
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:36,280
I couldn't do anything just to. 
Yeah, I I don't know why we 

942
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:41,080
touch each other with Anthony. 
It was not by purpose, you know,

943
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:44,720
It's just like we were so close 
and I don't know, because this, 

944
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:48,440
you know, in with the bumps in 
this corner and this, you know. 

945
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:50,320
Yeah, it's a very bumpy track. 
Isn't it? 

946
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:55,280
It's a bumpy track and we, yeah,
we didn't manage well in this 

947
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:56,480
situation. 
I. 

948
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,760
Remember Anthony at Brands Hatch
couple of months ago were saying

949
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:03,640
to me Alex, I'm a bit worried 
Laurent might be angry with me 

950
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:08,880
still over the £250,000. 
No, no, no. 

951
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:12,600
And he was, he was the guy I was
telling, telling you. 

952
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:16,440
And also with John Cleland. 
We never spoke together during 

953
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:18,800
the season. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

954
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:24,240
And when we met at Brands a few 
months ago, I was. 

955
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:27,880
Yeah, I was. 
It was so nice talking and 

956
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:34,160
surprised to talk to them and 
see how good they are, you know?

957
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,640
Yes, yeah, that's now. 
That's now. 

958
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,120
Yeah, that's now, yeah. 
I'm sure. 

959
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:40,760
Then it's exactly like I said 
before you. 

960
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:43,600
You're rivals, aren't you? 
It's still, it's still mind 

961
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,080
blowing to see Anthony racing 
his Nissan. 

962
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:49,960
You know, he's, he's only a 
couple of years off 70 and he's 

963
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:53,000
still racing it so well. 
It's incredible. 

964
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:55,360
Really fascinating. 
Dear Lauren, did you see him in 

965
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:57,800
the Nissan jacket? 
He still has the jacket, The 

966
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:00,040
Nissan team jacket that you 
have. 

967
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:01,640
Yeah, 19. 90. 
Still. 

968
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:03,800
Hasn't seen him. 
Yeah, yeah, he was wearing it. 

969
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,600
Still has it. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

970
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:10,560
It was. 
It was nice to see them in 

971
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:14,680
brands and yeah. 
And still racing the car. 

972
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:19,440
I am also, you know, like I 
wouldn't like to be racing 

973
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:23,960
again, you know, because when I 
decided to stop, then I just 

974
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:28,880
pulled away from racing in the 
and because I wanted to be sure 

975
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:35,280
that it was not a good, a bad 
decision, you know, But to see 

976
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:41,040
all these drivers still driving 
for passion, you know, they are 

977
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:46,880
really passionated and I'm I am 
not passionate like them, you 

978
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:49,880
know. 
That's good. 

979
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,000
He had a great career. 
Back to teammates, obviously 

980
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,080
David Leslie was your teammate. 
Obviously the great David Leslie

981
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:58,960
is no longer with us, sadly. 
But how was he for a teammate? 

982
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:02,200
For you? 
David yeah, yeah, he was really 

983
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:06,560
fast, really, really fast. 
He was really fast, but I think 

984
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:13,440
I was managing better the tyres 
than he was and This is why I 

985
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,080
could do the difference during 
the race, you know. 

986
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:20,320
But for being fast, it was fat, 
I tell you. 

987
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:26,000
Like I said, you know, in 
Truxton being 1 1/2 seconds 

988
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:29,600
slower than your mate, yeah, 
it's terrible, you know. 

989
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:33,120
And it was not the only place, 
you know, there was also some of

990
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:36,760
the races when I was a little 
bit slower for the quali. 

991
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:44,080
I was working hard for being 
faster or better position for, 

992
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:48,240
for the race. 
But he was he was a really fair 

993
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:57,440
driver, you know, he was, he was
giving everything, you know, and

994
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:02,320
we were talking very openly, you
know, like if, if he was not 

995
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:05,600
happy about the situation, he 
was coming and saying it, you 

996
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:07,160
know. 
And I was the same. 

997
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:11,040
Yeah, yeah. 
This is why we managed together,

998
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:16,160
because there was some situation
not easy to start with within 

999
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:21,080
the team because, because I was 
he was part of the team for 

1000
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:25,320
years. 
And when I came, I had, you 

1001
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:30,040
know, for example, when I I 
decided to come and leave to in 

1002
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:34,440
England. 
And I remember when I went for 

1003
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:41,680
the 98, you know, there, there 
was like a Christmas party for 

1004
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:46,440
the team, you know, make a party
for the results of the season 

1005
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:48,800
and everything. 
And they invited me there. 

1006
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:52,600
So that was great because I 
could, I could have a first 

1007
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:56,120
meeting with the, with the 
people of the team, you know. 

1008
01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:06,400
And then at that, at that time, 
they told me Laurent David is 

1009
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:11,360
going to be the test driver for 
the Michelin test drive, you 

1010
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:17,400
know, and I said what? 
And I and I'm not coming. 

1011
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:22,120
And they say, no, it's better 
because David knows better the, 

1012
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:27,360
the car, you know. 
And I said, OK, so I think we're

1013
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:31,120
going to stop now because I have
nothing to do with you if you 

1014
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:34,960
don't want me to test the drive 
the, the tires, because it's the

1015
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:39,000
most important thing. 
Part of the, the championship is

1016
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:42,720
try to choose the tires for the 
right tires for, for your car, 

1017
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:46,600
you know, and I was, I was doing
in it with Peugeot for years, 

1018
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:49,920
you know, and I knew how 
important it was, you know, So I

1019
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:54,320
said, if you're, if I don't go, 
then I stopped the champion. 

1020
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:56,360
I stopped. 
I didn't even start the 

1021
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:57,840
championship with you. 
I'm sorry. 

1022
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:03,440
So there was like, you know, 
like a bit of a discussion in 

1023
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:09,160
between the Alec and the and the
also with Ray. 

1024
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:13,600
But they understood what I was 
saying that you want me. 

1025
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:15,400
I am here for winning the 
championship. 

1026
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:18,360
You pay me a lot of money and 
you asked me to stay home. 

1027
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:21,000
No, no, this is not the way I I 
race. 

1028
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:23,640
You understand? 
And I think they understood it, 

1029
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,120
yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, because as you say, 

1030
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:31,200
it's tricky because David and 
Ray raced themselves together. 

1031
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,400
They were team mates at Le Mans 
in the 80s. 

1032
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:35,720
Exactly. 
Was there any, was there ever 

1033
01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:39,440
any tension between you 2 on, 
you know, with team orders or 

1034
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:43,600
anything like that? 
They they've been, you remember 

1035
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:47,800
at Bronze Ash, They they give me
an order and the was not 

1036
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,640
supposed to be the case. 
That gave me in order. 

1037
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:56,200
Yeah, yeah. 
So I, so we had a discussion at 

1038
01:07:56,200 --> 01:08:01,000
the end of the race and the 
again, I told them, I know it's 

1039
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:05,760
not easy to, to to hear, but I 
told them, OK, if you, if you 

1040
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:10,280
want to do that, I stop here 
because I don't see the point. 

1041
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:14,720
Again, what you want me to do to
win or not winning the 

1042
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:16,760
championship, What, what are you
doing in there? 

1043
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:21,600
So it was fair discussion. 
I mean, we were not like 

1044
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:25,439
fighting, you know, but 
sometimes we had to put 

1045
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:29,399
everything together to have a 
normal situation, I would say. 

1046
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,760
But like you say, you know, it 
was not easy because I, I could 

1047
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:37,040
feel, you know, the relationship
in between Ray and David and 

1048
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:42,760
also is, is, is engineer, you 
know, it was like a family, you 

1049
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:50,040
know, and so, but I, I felt the 
same when I came to the to the 

1050
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:54,439
hapt team, you know, in DTM. 
Yeah, yeah, it was even worse 

1051
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:57,359
because this was a, a real 
family, you know, it was like a 

1052
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:01,240
small garage and all the 
mechanics, they were like the 

1053
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:03,920
cousins, the, the friend, the 
best friend of. 

1054
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:08,479
So this is, was really 
incredible, you know, when I 

1055
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:12,880
came there. 
But then I'm managed to, to, to,

1056
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:16,000
to get involved into the team 
and that, that the people 

1057
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:23,640
suddenly, not suddenly, but 
slowly by slowly, you know, to 

1058
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:29,439
get some interest from them. 
You know, and I was at that time

1059
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:35,560
in 2000, the car was so 
difficult, so difficult to drive

1060
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:40,200
and poor grip and everything 
that he stand up was not 

1061
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:42,680
finishing the races. 
He was, he preferred, you know, 

1062
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:46,399
stop stopping the, the race 
because the car was, you know, 

1063
01:09:46,399 --> 01:09:49,560
like be dangerous. 
And I was yeah, yeah, still on 

1064
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:52,319
track, you know, try to get the 
information to make 

1065
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:54,680
improvements, you know, on the, 
on the car. 

1066
01:09:54,680 --> 01:10:01,320
So he helped me on the way that 
then they just moved, you know, 

1067
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:05,280
the, the effort on my car 
because Christian didn't want it

1068
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:10,960
to, to work on the car. 99 was a
year of ups and downs, I think 

1069
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:15,720
with the wins and then, as you 
said, the team orders and so on.

1070
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:19,680
One of the other controversies 
that year came at Not Kill and 

1071
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:21,840
I'd love to get your eye at your
thoughts on Not Kill as a 

1072
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:23,240
circuit. 
That must have been quite a 

1073
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:26,800
different one as well. 
But you had a collision with 

1074
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:30,480
Jason Plato that race that saw 
he disqualified after the race. 

1075
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:34,160
What what were your thoughts of 
as I say, both Not Kill as a 

1076
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:36,080
tracks. 
It's quite a unique track, but 

1077
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:38,120
but also that collision with 
Jason. 

1078
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:45,360
Jason, Jason was not fair, you 
know, he was break testing, he 

1079
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:49,960
was slowing down the pack, you 
know, and I think I spent, you 

1080
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:53,360
know, about 20 or more than 20 
laps behind, you know, yes. 

1081
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:56,680
And that one stage, you know, 
when we came to the to the, the 

1082
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:04,080
breaking for me, I didn't want 
to push him, you know, at that 

1083
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:05,880
point. 
But for me, he really is, you 

1084
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:09,040
know, the throttle. 
And then I was also surprised to

1085
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:13,920
to bang him, you know, and then 
into the corner again, he took 

1086
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:17,160
the curb on the inside. 
And because he knew that he was 

1087
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:21,040
not going to be quick enough for
the rest of the corner, he 

1088
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:24,880
slowed down a lot again. 
And then I said, OK, now it's 

1089
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:27,080
over. 
It's too much for me, you know, 

1090
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:32,200
and I pushed him out because 
this was not, yeah, he deserved 

1091
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:34,280
it. 
He was not racing. 

1092
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:36,920
He was not racing. 
He was not fair from him, you 

1093
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:38,880
know. 
But The thing is, if you if you 

1094
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:42,960
look during this year, I was 
not, I'm not going to talk about

1095
01:11:43,440 --> 01:11:47,520
the other championship, but 
during this championship, every 

1096
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:53,600
single race he had contacts or 
problem with with James, you 

1097
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:58,000
remember, was it in? 
Alton Park. 

1098
01:11:58,040 --> 01:11:59,440
Alton Park. 
Yeah, Alton Park. 

1099
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:01,880
Yeah. 
And again, and Jess also for me,

1100
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,880
was right to do it in this way, 
you know, because enough is 

1101
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:08,560
enough. 
You know, normally I don't do 

1102
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:13,120
this sort of things because 
again, you know, sometimes you 

1103
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:14,200
can. 
Yeah. 

1104
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:16,840
Yeah. 
Because yeah, this was too much 

1105
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:20,440
for me. 
Well, I, I remember that looking

1106
01:12:20,440 --> 01:12:25,880
back at that race before you and
him had that collision, I think 

1107
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:29,360
Alan was leading by about 35 
seconds, which was unheard of in

1108
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:31,600
touring cars, you know, that 
sort of gap. 

1109
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:37,320
So that just shows how defensive
Jason was and how slow he was. 

1110
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:41,320
He was. 
Yeah, it was really obvious, you

1111
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:45,520
know, he was too much slowing 
down the pack, you know, he was 

1112
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:50,400
doing it in every single 
corners, you know, so And the 

1113
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:54,840
The thing is that when we went 
to the Marshalls at the end of 

1114
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:58,080
the race, I told him that he was
breaking everywhere. 

1115
01:12:58,480 --> 01:13:02,040
And they say sorry, but we 
can't, we can't see the lights 

1116
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:06,880
of this breaking, you know. 
So he was, he was really smart 

1117
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:09,400
because he was just releasing 
the Trotter. 

1118
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:12,640
He was off the Trotter, you 
know, And this is something that

1119
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:18,920
I, I said that I, I had a lot of
things to learn still from the 

1120
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:21,280
championship and these kind of 
things. 

1121
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:26,520
I'm sure that I there was 
against so many things like that

1122
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:30,720
that I had to to learn from for 
if I was going to stay for 

1123
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:32,720
another year, you know? 
Yeah, to the championship. 

1124
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:34,720
What, what did you think of the 
circuit? 

1125
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:37,800
Because when I see Knock Hill, 
obviously I raced in France for 

1126
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:41,600
two years in 99 and 2000, so you
know the circuit left and on. 

1127
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:45,080
Le'donol yes. 
Le'donon's grey circuit anti 

1128
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:47,880
clock eye is very up and down. 
It's like NOK Hill is like a 

1129
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:50,240
smaller circuit, like a smaller 
version of Le'donol. 

1130
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:52,760
That's how I saw it. 
But what was your reaction when 

1131
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:55,960
you first arrived at NOK Hill? 
Yeah, like, like you say, it's 

1132
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:59,680
the feeling was that the car was
really small, quite small. 

1133
01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:02,880
Yeah, but I like, you know, the 
chicken uphill, you know, 

1134
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:06,640
because I like the rhythm. 
I I like the ribbon, the rhythm 

1135
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:08,720
of the circle over the lap time.
Yeah. 

1136
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:17,400
And but I would, I would say 
that for me, the circuits in the

1137
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:22,000
British circuit are the, for me,
the best circuits, you know, in,

1138
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:25,600
in what that I've done, you 
know, into the championships. 

1139
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:31,880
Germany, there are many airfield
tracks, you know which they're 

1140
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:36,000
not bad, but you know, the, the,
the, the, the circuit in 

1141
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:39,120
England, they are like, for me. 
Wow. 

1142
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:43,680
Yeah, I like it very much. 
I like them very much. 

1143
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:47,000
Yeah, yeah. 
No, it's a lot of drivers that 

1144
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:50,000
have come over from from Europe 
have have said similar things 

1145
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:52,600
actually. 
Yeah, but because for, for 

1146
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:56,680
example, in in in France, like 
you said, I think Leonor is one 

1147
01:14:56,680 --> 01:15:00,640
of the best circuit we have in 
the championship. 

1148
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:07,400
Because if you see Polygam and 
Iku Nogaro, they're boring. 

1149
01:15:07,400 --> 01:15:09,400
You know, for me, they're 
boring. 

1150
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:23,400
The title decider for you was at
Silverstone, So what was your 

1151
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:27,360
thoughts going into Silverstone?
I don't know if I don't remember

1152
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:30,480
if I was confident, but I I 
mean, I have done the job, you 

1153
01:15:30,480 --> 01:15:34,600
know, during the season. 
I have, I, I have done what I 

1154
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:38,760
could do with what I had, you 
know, and there was some good 

1155
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:43,920
races and bad races. 
And at the end of today, if 

1156
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:48,640
you're the man, you're the man. 
I mean, if it's your turn, OK. 

1157
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:53,080
And, and it was it was not an 
easy race. 

1158
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:54,440
And it was in the rain. 
No it. 

1159
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:57,160
Was it was, it was horrendous 
rain. 

1160
01:15:57,160 --> 01:16:00,040
It was down. 
It was absolutely torrential 

1161
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:01,240
rain. 
Yes. 

1162
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:05,760
And you and you and David both 
ended up being sent to the back 

1163
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:08,240
of the grid for the first race, 
if I remember rightly. 

1164
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:10,880
I don't know where I finished in
the race. 

1165
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:12,360
I don't know. 
I don't remember. 

1166
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:16,240
The race was red flagged. 
Ah, OK. 

1167
01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:20,080
Because of it was just too wet. 
So in the race was red flagged. 

1168
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:22,920
I think you finished about 5th 
or 6th, but it was enough. 

1169
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:26,120
It was enough for you to to. 
To win the title, yeah. 

1170
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:27,520
It's in the next race, I'm 
afraid. 

1171
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:29,080
You threw it off at 2:00 and 
1:00. 

1172
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:30,840
Yes, exactly. 
I remember that. 

1173
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:33,880
Sorry. 
To bring it up, but. 

1174
01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:36,080
But he But he could do that, 
Alex. 

1175
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:38,120
Yeah. 
Do what the hell he likes. 

1176
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:42,080
Do what you want, Lauren. 
Your mindset going into that was

1177
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:44,760
just to continue what you'd 
already done throughout the 

1178
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:46,280
season. 
Just don't change anything. 

1179
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:48,320
Just going to the race. 
No, exactly. 

1180
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:53,240
You know, I think most of the 
championship I won this was in 

1181
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:59,880
the last race and to be honest, 
I'm sleeping very well before 

1182
01:16:59,880 --> 01:17:02,120
the race. 
I I have no thoughts, you know, 

1183
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:07,040
I don't know, it's a it's a 
chance, but I have no difficulty

1184
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:12,600
for sleeping before the race. 
You know, it's not a question of

1185
01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:15,160
that. 
I'm too much confident, but it's

1186
01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:19,960
just like I am relaxed. 
And I mean, there's nothing more

1187
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:27,280
I can do if I and most of the 
time what I was doing is to, to,

1188
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:32,960
to stay out until 1130 midnight,
you know, because if you go to 

1189
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:37,400
bed, then start to think and try
to too much thinking is not 

1190
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:40,240
good, you know. 
So I remember in, in the 

1191
01:17:40,480 --> 01:17:44,600
Germany, there was a lot of 
party in the paddock. 

1192
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:49,880
So we were going there. 
I don't remember in the, in the 

1193
01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:53,000
BTC, there was no party in the, 
in the, in the paddock. 

1194
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:55,160
No, I don't think so. 
Too, too boring? 

1195
01:17:55,160 --> 01:17:58,280
No. 
No, no, I remember the the the 

1196
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:01,800
party for the last race was 
really good on the in the track.

1197
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:04,520
Yeah, after the championship, I 
remember that. 

1198
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:09,040
As you said earlier, Nissan had 
pulled out then of the the BTCC,

1199
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:12,800
so you were effectively A1 and 
done. 

1200
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:16,200
You came in, won the 
championship and then buggered 

1201
01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:16,800
off. 
Really. 

1202
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:20,280
Was that the hardest 
championship to win? 

1203
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:23,240
Yeah. 
Because of that one year, yeah. 

1204
01:18:23,480 --> 01:18:28,320
Definitely because I had to 
learn everything, the track, the

1205
01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:32,680
car, the car was made for me, 
You know, I tried to adapt the 

1206
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:39,040
car, the team, I had to learn. 
And I like I explained it a bit 

1207
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:42,400
earlier that it was not easy to 
come here in a family team, like

1208
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:46,000
the relationship in between 
David and the rest of the team. 

1209
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:53,240
So it was difficult for me to 
yeah, to, to add to, to work 

1210
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:58,480
with that. 
It took me a lot of energy and 

1211
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:05,640
but I managed to to get the 
result and so This is why I am 

1212
01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:09,600
so proud about this championship
because this is for me the most 

1213
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:11,680
difficult championship I I ever 
won. 

1214
01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:14,800
You came in for one season and 
you just did it. 

1215
01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:18,880
Like that is impressive. 
Like, really, really impressive 

1216
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:23,000
even now. 
You know, yeah, you know, but 

1217
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:28,880
I'm and I and I realized it 
later, you know, years later, I 

1218
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:32,520
realized what I did, you know? 
I, I remember the interview you 

1219
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:36,200
did with Steve Ryder after you 
won the championship after the 

1220
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:39,560
first race. 
And I remember specifically that

1221
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:45,040
you dedicated the championship 
to your little boy that was not 

1222
01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:48,800
quite born yet, Tom. 
And I mean, so it was 25 years 

1223
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:50,680
ago now. 
In fact, the anniversary is 

1224
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:54,680
probably very, very soon. 
So it was in September, yeah. 

1225
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:57,200
Yeah, yeah. 
So there we go. 

1226
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:00,880
So there. 
That's that, that that must be 

1227
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:04,840
quite a nice memory to look back
on, especially as I've I've, I 

1228
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:07,840
know I've sent you some, some of
the videos to show Tom. 

1229
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:10,640
That must be quite cool for him 
to watch. 

1230
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:17,480
Yeah, he was so happy he watched
them and the I mean, again, even

1231
01:20:17,480 --> 01:20:21,160
my, my, my kids, they didn't 
realize because when I stopped 

1232
01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:23,840
my car and they were quite 
young, you know, they were, they

1233
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:28,840
were coming to the circuits. 
OK, OK, 99 Tom wasn't, wasn't he

1234
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:32,760
was born in nine in 99. 
But, but even after, when he 

1235
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:36,880
came, he came to DTM races and 
everything, he was there, he was

1236
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:39,880
playing around. 
I, I think he, he felt the 

1237
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:42,160
atmosphere. 
He felt, you know, the, the, the

1238
01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:49,320
fans, the fans around me, what I
was in into the, the paddock. 

1239
01:20:50,440 --> 01:20:57,160
But just, you know, two or three
years ago, they just realized 

1240
01:20:57,160 --> 01:21:01,200
what I was doing at that time, 
you know, and because now they 

1241
01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:05,520
are, and especially my daughter 
now she's a big fan of Formula 

1242
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:09,400
One and, and racing. 
And it's really strange because 

1243
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:13,760
one day she asked me, Papa, 
Daddy, you know, I took my 

1244
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:17,280
tickets for the Grand Prix in 
the castle, you know, two years 

1245
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:20,520
ago. 
And I said, what the tickets for

1246
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:22,280
Formula One, you're going to 
Formula One. 

1247
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:23,680
What the? 
Hell, shock to you. 

1248
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:24,160
Right. 
Yeah. 

1249
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:25,360
It was a shock for me. 
Yeah. 

1250
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:29,560
And I say yeah, yes, Papa, I'm 
following because of Netflix, 

1251
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:29,840
you know? 
Oh. 

1252
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:31,640
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1253
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:34,040
Drive her to survive. 
Exactly. 

1254
01:21:34,200 --> 01:21:37,280
And now she's a big fan and 
she's following. 

1255
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:43,960
She went to different races, she
went to Monza, she went to Long 

1256
01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:46,040
Castelli. 
It's another one I can't 

1257
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:47,960
remember. 
And we went to Le Mans or so 

1258
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:50,280
they wanted to come with me to 
Le Mans. 

1259
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:57,120
So for the century and we went 
there and it was, it was really 

1260
01:21:57,120 --> 01:22:02,640
nice because we went everywhere 
and there was a lot of people 

1261
01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:07,560
from motor racing, you know, 
that they were happy to see me 

1262
01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:13,280
and giving me some really good 
words, you know like Loic Duval 

1263
01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:19,600
or a lot of drivers and also 
Cedric Vasa. 

1264
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:24,120
You know, yeah. 
Yeah, incredible was because 

1265
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:30,480
when we running back to the to 
the to the garage, my little Tom

1266
01:22:30,480 --> 01:22:32,680
was crying, you know, and I said
what happened? 

1267
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:37,680
But you but Daddy, you, you 
don't realize what you have the 

1268
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:40,000
bus from Ferrari, what he says 
to you. 

1269
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:46,120
And I was also emotionally 
touched because because of of my

1270
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:47,600
son, you know, that he was 
crying of. 

1271
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:48,520
Course. 
You know. 

1272
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:52,000
I remember when we were, we were
chatting at at Brands Hatch and 

1273
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:57,320
you said you were surprised how 
many people remembered you and 

1274
01:22:57,320 --> 01:23:00,640
wanted to come and talk to you. 
I mean, that's a similar sort of

1275
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:03,240
experience, I guess that that 
you had there. 

1276
01:23:03,480 --> 01:23:07,720
Yeah, definitely, yeah. 
Because just one year in 

1277
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:12,560
England, I understand now that 
the people were probably, yeah, 

1278
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:16,560
impressed because I, I won after
one year. 

1279
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:21,600
And maybe this is something that
they, they, they, they, they 

1280
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:28,080
realize or they like. 
But it was like if I I saw them 

1281
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:33,920
the day before, you know, back 
in 99, you know, when we spoke, 

1282
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:36,960
you know, around the, the, the 
cars, when I was giving some 

1283
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:40,440
autographs, you know, Yes, yeah.
The people were talking to me 

1284
01:23:40,440 --> 01:23:44,040
like if we saw each other, you 
know, the the last weekend. 

1285
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:46,640
Didn't you say the same week, 
the Super Touring Power weekend,

1286
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:49,320
the first one, the Allen menu 
was very touched and emotional. 

1287
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:52,880
Allen was saying yeah, about the
whole like you, you turned up 

1288
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:55,600
there thinking people weren't 
really going to bother with him 

1289
01:23:55,600 --> 01:23:56,920
or. 
No, I talked to him. 

1290
01:23:56,920 --> 01:23:59,520
But they were he he was 
completely overwhelmed with 

1291
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:02,280
emotion, I think. 
From the family, it was like 

1292
01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:03,600
going. 
Back in time. 

1293
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:09,480
Was it emotional when you were 
sort of when you were reunited 

1294
01:24:09,480 --> 01:24:12,320
with, if you like, with the 
Nissan that you won, when you 

1295
01:24:12,320 --> 01:24:15,680
went down to the pit lane and, 
and, and, and saw it? 

1296
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:19,000
I mean, what was that like? 
It's always strange to get back 

1297
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:20,960
into a car that you've been 
winning with. 

1298
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:26,520
And I had a sort of, I remember 
every time I won with my car, I 

1299
01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:29,840
was going to the car after the 
race into the garage. 

1300
01:24:30,520 --> 01:24:34,880
And I love to see the car like a
dirty car, you know. 

1301
01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:37,480
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Fighting, you know, yeah, yeah. 

1302
01:24:37,480 --> 01:24:42,360
And I was just touching the car 
and, you know, just telling 

1303
01:24:43,680 --> 01:24:46,960
thanks, you know, for what we 
did together, you know, And 

1304
01:24:47,160 --> 01:24:50,680
it's, it's really strange. 
It may be funny, you know, to 

1305
01:24:50,680 --> 01:24:54,160
hear. 
But to come back and sit in the 

1306
01:24:54,160 --> 01:25:01,640
car, everything, you know, comes
back, you know, the good and the

1307
01:25:01,640 --> 01:25:03,720
bad memories, you know. 
Yeah. 

1308
01:25:04,360 --> 01:25:10,400
A few months ago, I bought from 
Africa the 909090 car. 

1309
01:25:10,480 --> 01:25:11,320
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1310
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:17,920
And Erica, Larry told me 
somebody has your car and he's 

1311
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:20,520
selling it, so are you 
interested? 

1312
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:22,880
And I said, Oh yeah, yeah, why 
not? 

1313
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:27,080
So I bought the car. 
And the first time when I jumped

1314
01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:31,280
it to into the car, the first 
feeling was strange. 

1315
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:39,880
The first thing I I, I said to 
Eric was Basta about I, I was 

1316
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:45,560
talking about the to the car 
that there was so much pressure 

1317
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:52,800
on me, like coming up into a 
championship into a new into a, 

1318
01:25:52,800 --> 01:25:55,040
a car. 
This was for me, the Formula 3 

1319
01:25:55,040 --> 01:26:00,520
was the first car I, I, I drove,
you know, and you saw you had to

1320
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:05,160
be fast competitive right from 
the start without doing any 

1321
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:08,240
mistakes, you know, and it's 
easy to make mistakes with the 

1322
01:26:08,240 --> 01:26:11,280
Formula three, you know, because
if you bang the barrier, it 

1323
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:14,360
costs a lot of money. 
And also because I, I didn't get

1324
01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:18,920
all the budget, you know. 
So I remember that he was like a

1325
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:23,960
hard relationship, you know, he 
was like not bad memories, but 

1326
01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:27,840
I, I said to her, it was 
difficult with you. 

1327
01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:44,600
Obviously at the end of 99 then 
Nissan withdrawal, there were 

1328
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:48,560
rumours in the press at the time
that you were in talks with 

1329
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:51,800
Honda to continue in the BTCC 
for 2000. 

1330
01:26:52,320 --> 01:26:54,480
I mean did were they talks to 
starters? 

1331
01:26:54,480 --> 01:26:58,520
Did you get very far in those 
chats or were you looking at DTM

1332
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:02,640
because as you said earlier, you
you wanted to be in the new 

1333
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:05,280
championship from the first 
year? 

1334
01:27:06,040 --> 01:27:14,480
I, I don't remember exactly, but
maybe there was some, I don't 

1335
01:27:14,480 --> 01:27:16,280
remember if there, there was a 
contact. 

1336
01:27:16,280 --> 01:27:19,280
I don't remember. 
I don't remember myself talking 

1337
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:25,520
to somebody from Honda, you 
know, but I've, I have been told

1338
01:27:25,640 --> 01:27:29,120
maybe that they wanted me to, 
they wanted to talk to me. 

1339
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:31,880
I I I don't know either but I 
remember there there was 

1340
01:27:31,880 --> 01:27:33,680
something but I don't remember 
how. 

1341
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:35,120
Right. 
Yeah. 

1342
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:38,920
I was already, I was already in 
contact for the, for the DTM 

1343
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:42,960
without it because they wanted 
me to drive the, the Le Mans, Le

1344
01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:50,000
Mans car, you know, in 99 and, 
and at that time. 

1345
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:56,600
And I for me the deal was I do 
Le Mans, but the most important 

1346
01:27:56,600 --> 01:28:00,080
thing for me is the the DTM. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1347
01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:05,000
It was difficult for them to 
hear, but it was the case. 

1348
01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:07,000
Must have. 
The main thing that sticks out 

1349
01:28:07,320 --> 01:28:11,960
for me with your stint, 
especially early on with DTM is 

1350
01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:15,680
how you were in a not full 
factory effort compared to the 

1351
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:19,720
Mercedes and the Opals. 
You then sort of developed this 

1352
01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:23,920
car over the three years and and
win the title against Burt 

1353
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:26,160
Schneider. 
He's a, you know, DTM legend in 

1354
01:28:26,160 --> 01:28:29,240
his own right and Mercedes. 
That must have been quite a 

1355
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:33,280
difficult combination to come up
against Schneider and Mercedes 

1356
01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:36,080
about factory backing you. 
You must have been pretty proud 

1357
01:28:36,080 --> 01:28:39,440
to develop the car and and take 
the tile in 2002 given that. 

1358
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:46,440
It was another, again, another 
difficult start. 

1359
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:50,800
Like I said, you know, because 
the APP team was just like a 

1360
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:54,000
family team, a garage. 
Like I explained already that 

1361
01:28:54,120 --> 01:29:00,120
the car was really difficult and
not competitive at all to start 

1362
01:29:00,200 --> 01:29:02,880
in the championship. 
We were about 3 seconds lower 

1363
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:11,280
than the the pace, you know, so,
but I, you know, I put a lot of 

1364
01:29:11,400 --> 01:29:17,680
effort for give some more 
information to develop the car 

1365
01:29:17,680 --> 01:29:21,080
during the season, you know, and
try to reduce this gap. 

1366
01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:25,920
And at the end of the season, we
finish with a 510 difference, 

1367
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:31,640
you know, So it was a huge work 
have been done, you know. 

1368
01:29:32,440 --> 01:29:41,240
But the, the other thing is that
the AT team, they understood 

1369
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:47,240
very quickly that they have to 
put a real team in place for the

1370
01:29:47,680 --> 01:29:52,960
next season, you know, and 
already in 2001, like in a few 

1371
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:57,040
months, they managed to, to 
build a real team, you know, 

1372
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:04,680
because I think in the, in the 
next season, we already finished

1373
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:08,280
third, you know, I, I think in 
the championship by winning one 

1374
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:13,840
or two races. 
But I was really impressed how 

1375
01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:21,000
fast they managed to to to put 
everything in place to make that

1376
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:28,520
team able to fight against, like
you say, Mercedes or, or factory

1377
01:30:28,520 --> 01:30:30,440
teams. 
I would say, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1378
01:30:30,440 --> 01:30:41,120
And about the fact that it was 
not now the program for me, I 

1379
01:30:41,120 --> 01:30:45,600
think it was even better because
sometimes with big teams, you 

1380
01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:48,640
know, or with the manufacturer, 
I would say more than big teams,

1381
01:30:49,360 --> 01:30:52,600
everything is a little bit 
sometimes long, you know, for 

1382
01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:55,240
developing or to change things, 
you know. 

1383
01:30:55,680 --> 01:30:59,600
And within the team with 
apartment, everything was fast, 

1384
01:30:59,920 --> 01:31:03,480
you know, and we could do 
whatever we wanted, you know, 

1385
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:06,240
there was no politics things, 
you know. 

1386
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:12,480
So This is why I think we we 
managed to win the championship 

1387
01:31:12,480 --> 01:31:16,400
after three season. 
And, you know, rather possibly 

1388
01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:20,160
unusually for some, you, you 
decided to retire from racing at

1389
01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:24,480
the end of 2005 at a relatively 
young age of 36. 

1390
01:31:26,400 --> 01:31:28,680
Was there a specific reason for 
that? 

1391
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:30,960
Did you just fallen out of love 
with competition? 

1392
01:31:30,960 --> 01:31:33,480
I'd love to know the thoughts 
behind that. 

1393
01:31:34,240 --> 01:31:40,320
Well I think 2003 already. 
I talked to my dad and say, 

1394
01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:44,760
Daddy, I don't know if I'm still
want to go to, to be there. 

1395
01:31:46,760 --> 01:31:51,320
And he told me, OK, wait, wait a
little bit, wait a little bit. 

1396
01:31:51,320 --> 01:31:56,640
Maybe it's just a period and 
you're going to change your 

1397
01:31:56,640 --> 01:32:00,880
mind, you know, but I already in
2003, I was thinking of what I'm

1398
01:32:00,920 --> 01:32:03,840
what I'm doing here. 
I don't know if I want to, I 

1399
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:11,160
still want to, to be there. 
And with this, this pressure and

1400
01:32:12,040 --> 01:32:19,000
this demanding things, you know,
and then suddenly the open 

1401
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:23,360
program came, you know, and I 
said to myself, maybe this is 

1402
01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:26,760
what I need, you know, 
something, something new to go 

1403
01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:30,960
out from Audi and go to open and
try to win with them, you know? 

1404
01:32:31,760 --> 01:32:40,360
And so this is what I started. 
And I think, yeah, I was not 

1405
01:32:40,360 --> 01:32:42,920
wrong because this is what I 
decided at that point. 

1406
01:32:43,440 --> 01:32:48,880
But I think that already I was 
out of the the thing because 

1407
01:32:50,680 --> 01:32:58,840
because you know, for me, if you
ask yourself, then already the 

1408
01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:00,440
answer is there. 
Yes, yeah. 

1409
01:33:00,720 --> 01:33:02,960
If it's, if it's already in your
head, yeah. 

1410
01:33:02,960 --> 01:33:05,480
Exactly. 
And why I did it? 

1411
01:33:05,480 --> 01:33:10,520
Because before that, when I was 
jumping in the car, I was not 

1412
01:33:10,520 --> 01:33:14,360
asking myself or saying to 
myself lol you have to be quick 

1413
01:33:14,440 --> 01:33:18,520
you know? 
And already in 2003 or 4, 

1414
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:22,080
sometimes before the QWERTY, I 
was saying to myself, OK lol 

1415
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:29,080
now, now you have to. 
And this started to be for me 

1416
01:33:29,480 --> 01:33:31,960
different. 
And then I, you know, and then I

1417
01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:39,400
realized 2005, I said to myself,
I don't want to, I don't want 

1418
01:33:39,400 --> 01:33:45,120
to, to, to sign another contract
or to follow knowing that I'm 

1419
01:33:45,120 --> 01:33:47,440
not 100 person, you know? 
Yeah. 

1420
01:33:47,800 --> 01:33:52,080
And I don't want to sign a 
contract with a manufacturer by 

1421
01:33:52,280 --> 01:33:54,880
knowing this, you know, this is 
not fair. 

1422
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:57,920
This is not fair for for them 
and for myself too. 

1423
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:01,080
So This is why I decided to pull
out. 

1424
01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:08,040
Well, Laurent, thank you so much
for spending so much of your 

1425
01:34:08,040 --> 01:34:09,600
very valuable time with us 
today. 

1426
01:34:10,040 --> 01:34:12,880
We hope you've enjoyed looking 
back at your career just as much

1427
01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:14,360
as we've enjoyed listening to 
it. 

1428
01:34:14,360 --> 01:34:17,880
So on behalf of all our 
listeners, thank you very much. 

1429
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:19,440
Mercy Buku. 
Yeah. 

1430
01:34:19,440 --> 01:34:21,040
Thank you, Laurent. 
Really, really appreciate it. 

1431
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:22,080
Thanks. 
To you, thanks to you. 

1432
01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:24,560
It was a great pleasure and it 
was good for me to talk about 

1433
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:28,800
all these things because I never
had the chance, you know, to, to

1434
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:34,600
explain what I felt, what I, 
what I was like you said, you 

1435
01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:41,520
know, after years, after how I, 
I, I feel about this 

1436
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:44,560
championship and then how I, 
it's, it's done. 

1437
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:48,280
So I'm happy. 
And also thanks to you out there

1438
01:34:48,280 --> 01:34:51,080
for listening. 
This is the start of Series 5. 

1439
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:54,560
It's amazing that we're already 
on series 5 of stories from 

1440
01:34:54,560 --> 01:34:56,960
Super Touring. 
And if you enjoyed this episode,

1441
01:34:56,960 --> 01:35:00,320
please make sure to give us a 
five star rating and also 

1442
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:03,160
subscribe to the pod if you 
haven't done so already. 

1443
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:08,640
And then next week we'll be back
looking back at the 1995 season 

1444
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:12,480
opener at Donington Park with 
everybody's favorite pundit, 

1445
01:35:12,680 --> 01:35:15,320
Andrew Charman. 
Until then, we'll see you next 

1446
01:35:15,320 --> 01:35:16,240
week. 
Goodbye.