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Stories from Super Touring 
Andy Rounds returned to 

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contention in the 1991 British 
Touring Car Championship with a 

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commanding performance at Round 
8, winning both races in front 

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of the largest motor racing 
crowd in Britain that year 

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outside of the British Grand 
Prix. 

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The double victory marked 
Rouse's first wins of Toyota, 

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delivering both his team's 
maiden victory with the car and 

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the first front wheel drive wins
of his career. 

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It also came at the inaugural 
doubleheader meeting introduced 

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for the 1991 season. 
Welcome to the latest episode of

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Stories from Super Touring. 
I'm Levi Riley, and joining me 

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to look back at this eventful 
race meeting are the creator of 

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Stories from Super Touring, Alex
Clark, motorsport photographer 

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Greg Denton, a motorsport 
historian Chris Phillips. 

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Gentlemen, how are we all? 
Yeah, Yeah, good. 

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Thank you. 
Yeah, I'm looking forward to, to

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covering a race a bit earlier 
on, well, a lot earlier on in 

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the in the in the era because we
often get told we don't do 

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enough of the earlier stuff. 
And honestly, we'd love to do 

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more, but the coverage of the 
earlier stuff is a lot is a lot 

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less. 
Hatchy. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
You know, so there's a lot less 

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coverage of the earlier stuff, 
you know, or for example, this 

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has got a four page spread in 
Autosport, which is great 

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because it was a double header. 
But some of the earlier race 

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reports can just be a page or 
two pages. 

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And the news, the build up news 
and and all that sort of stuff 

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is a little bit more sketchy. 
So it's harder to do them. 

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So when we've got a good one 
like this, Yeah, this has been 

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asked for for a while. 
So looking forward to doing this

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one. 
Yeah, it's great to be here. 

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Yeah. 
Really looking forward to a 

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massive fan of the pod. 
So yeah, thanks for inviting me 

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along. 
And I'll lack of that as well. 

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I think I was obviously right. 
You know, 91 was the foundation 

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of Super Touring and it's where 
it all started. 

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So I think it's really great to 
talk about it in a bit more 

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detail because maybe people 
don't know it so much as what 

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what we do. 
So yeah, really looking forward 

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to the to going through the 
round. 

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And Chris, it's your first 
appearance on the podcast. 

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Sir, welcome. 
Thank you very much for joining 

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us. 
Let's first ask you about your 

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thoughts on Super Touring as a 
period. 

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Thanks so much. 
Yeah, fantastic to be on the 

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pod. 
I'm like I said earlier, I'm a 

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massive fan of the pod and just 
summarising, Super Touring for 

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me was an absolutely golden era,
a real golden age of touring car

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racing and everything that 
people wanted to see. 

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The old Group A rules had to be 
changed, the class structure had

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to go. 
So there was relatable cars, 

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highly identical drivers, lots 
of come down from Formula One 

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and sports cars and 
international drivers. 

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And there's on top of that, 
there was some absolutely 

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fantastic, iconic racing. 
It was such a great era. 

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Loved it, loved every second of 
it. 

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And we'll stay with you, Chris, 
for our opening question on this

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meeting. 
What first comes to mind when 

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you think back to this first of 
the doubleheader meetings in 

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1991? 
Well, as some a newbie on here, 

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can you give me, can I have two 
right. 

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So I'll I'll singly put them 
together. 

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I'll say the Melee and Mcleans 
and then Rouse's double win, his

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first double win or his first 
win at all in a front wheel 

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drive Super Touring 2 litre car.
And Greg, sorry, did you want a 

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bit more detail on that or no? 
That's fine. 

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Yeah, cool. 
Greg, coming to you next, what 

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jumps into your mind when you 
think about this meeting? 

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Yeah, I was going to say Chris 
is up to, I'm going to come up 

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with three actually. 
So I think first of all, it was 

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the first double header, 
something completely new, 

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something with no experience 
before. 

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Get the chance to see the cast 
twice, the massive crash up at 

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Maclean's. 
We'll talk about that later. 

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And I think from memory it was a
bloody hot weekend as well. 

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I seem to remember getting very,
very warm there. 

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So the weather, we talk about 
the weather a lot again. 

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It was another weather related 
meeting. 

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And and finally, coming to you, 
Alex, what are your memories of 

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the first double header in the 
series? 

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Does that mean I have to come up
with four? 

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For me, this is one that I this 
is a race. 

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I wasn't, I wasn't actually, I 
didn't know about the British 

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Touring Car Championship at this
time because I first went to a 

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race in 92, first watched a race
in 92. 

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So this was before my time. 
So the first time I saw this 

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race would be on the Duke video 
review. 

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And obviously it's that crash, 
but the path of the crash that 

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always sticks in my mind. 
And, and I know it sticks. 

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It's been discussed on the 
socials this week when we've put

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it out there is Jeff Allen's 
neck when he makes contact with 

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Nick Wales BMW and oh, 
especially when they put it in 

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slow MO and you just think how 
it. 

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Doesn't look real. 
Yeah, it was. 

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It looked. 
Yeah. 

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Violent is the word. 
Yeah, it's a shocker, wasn't it?

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Yeah, it's, it was a he was a 
very lucky boy not to be. 

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I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure he 
woke up very sore on Monday 

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morning, but he was very lucky 
to not have any serious neck 

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injury with that. 
So yeah, that's my 1 memory that

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always sticks in my mind. 
As ever, we asked our faithful 

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listeners what they thought of 
this race meeting on our social 

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media channels. 
And of course, most of you, as 

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we've already mentioned, will be
remembering this race for that 

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awful pile up during the second 
race with Neil Simpson also 

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mentioning what you did, Alex, 
really, that he bets Jeff 

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Allen's neck was really hurting 
after that accident because it 

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was, as we'll get into, 
incredibly violent. 

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You might not have heard of him.
Someone called John Cleland has 

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got in touch. 
I'm not sure. 

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He got in touch and said there 
was a big oil stick from Nick 

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Wells BMW and we all came around
with no idea and bang as he put 

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it, pretty accurate. 
It's a fair, drawn assessment 

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that really isn't it. 
That must be summarised. 

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Russell Bradley, friend of the 
pod, he also got in touch to say

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his first memory is that this is
the first of the new double 

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header races. 
If we've mentioned a format he 

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loved. 
And I guess it's something that 

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we kind of take for granted that
they were all double header 

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races, especially if we think 
later on in the period. 

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But in the early part of the 
period, it wasn't the standard 

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that you've got double headers 
every weekend, was it? 

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You know, this was even in 9293.
Some of the meetings were just 

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just the one race on the Sunday.
It was always, I mean, we'll 

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talk about it a bit later, but 
it was always in 92 and 93. 

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It was the three same events 
when it brands Knockhill and 

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Donnington, I think, I can't 
quite remember offhand. 

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And it was the same 3 for 92 and
93. 

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So yeah, even after this trial, 
it didn't, it didn't become the 

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norm until really until 1995, 
where it was every meeting was a

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double header. 
So yeah. 

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It was, it was a proper turn the
water to something new, wasn't 

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it? 
Something different. 

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And we'll, we'll get into the, 
the vagaries of the, of the, of 

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the system and the race weekend 
because it, you know, in some 

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ways it benefited race 1 drivers
and benefited race 2 drivers 

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more laps, less points. 
It was just. 

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Yeah, an interesting trial and 
it was. 

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In the interesting trial. 
It was always something which, 

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if you look throughout the era, 
they were always quite keen to 

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throw a little spanner in and, 
you know, compulsory pit stops. 

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Yeah, yeah, you know, stuff like
that. 

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Night races. 
Yeah. 

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So fair play. 
Yeah, it was, It was. 

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It was an interesting trial. 
Will Britain also got in touch 

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and he says he isn't sure how. 
Adam didn't have a serious 

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injury to his neck after that 
big shunt in the second race as 

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well. 
Yeah, it's pretty remarkable how

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he got away with that. 
As we'll get on to coming into 

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the weekend, the talk and buzz 
was around the new double race 

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format that would be used for 
the first time. 

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Race one would be 25 laps in 
length and then after 10 10 

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minute time break for refuelling
and repairs the cars would be 

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sent back out for the second 
race of the day. 

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Greg the championship trying a 
new race format for this 

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meeting. 
As someone who was at this race,

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what did you think of it and 
what was the general mood and 

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feeling in the paddock and and 
the crowd leading up to the the 

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first time we had this double 
format? 

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Yeah, I think there's a lot of 
excitement. 

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You know normally you went to a 
race and you saw them. 

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If you went on Saturday you'd 
see them practise and qualify 

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and then you'd see you'd see one
race. 

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This was now the chance to see 
them twice. 

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The 10 minute gap between the 
races was a bit of a step into 

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the unknown. 
What could they possibly do in 

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10 minutes? 
I don't think the drivers even 

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probably had time to go to the 
loop if they needed to. 

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But yeah, I think it was just an
exciting new innovation to to 

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the to the championship and to 
British motorsport. 

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I think, you know, normally 
anything you went to Formula 

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One, Formula Three, it was one 
race meeting and that was your 

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lot. 
But to have two in the same day 

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and in a very intense period, I 
think, yeah, it was it was 

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great. 
And I think we were all excited 

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to see what would what would 
develop. 

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The other big story in the build
up to this race meeting was the 

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news that Mitsubishi would be 
returning to the championship 

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with their new Gallant model 
which replaced the Lancer that 

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the team had started the season 
with, the John McGuire Racing 

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squad who run the Soul Works. 
Mitsubishi had missed the Lassie

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meetings to fessel their new car
Alex. 

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00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:22,520
Were there big hopes for an 
improvement on what was a pretty

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uncompetitive Lancer? 
Yes, there were hopes, but in 

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all honesty there was not much 
that you couldn't get much worse

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than the Lancer. 
It was, you know, in fairness, 

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it looked fairly competitive at 
Snetterton comparatively. 

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So because it did finish 10th 
and scored a point and it 

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finished ahead of, you know, a 
few settled cars then should we 

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say? 
But The thing is this was it, 

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it, it, it was a works 
programme. 

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00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,360
You know, don't get me wrong, it
was a works programme, but it, 

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it didn't have the works funding
that you would assume from 

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where, You know, as soon as 
someone says, oh, it's a works 

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programme, they go, OK, they're 
going to have, they're going to 

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00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,240
be, they're going to be backed 
well by the manufacturer. 

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00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,480
This was very, very much on a 
shoestring. 

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00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,160
And it was also a single car. 
Very hard to develop a single 

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00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,200
car in a championship like this,
especially when you're up 

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00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,800
against other manufacturers that
are running two cars each. 

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00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,600
It was also this, this car was 
also a complete shell just the 

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week before this race, which I 
think Hales alludes to later on 

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in this episode. 
So yeah, fair play to them to 

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get the car here and, and and 
running. 

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00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,800
And luckily it didn't get 
totalled in in the in the big 

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00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,280
shunt at at Mclean's in the 
second race, because that would 

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00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,960
have been a disaster for for the
brand new car. 

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00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,960
But I thought it certainly 
looked better than the Lancer. 

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00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,360
At least it looked more like a 
touring car. 

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00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:04,360
But yeah, so the Mitsubishi 
works team, the great unknown of

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00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,840
the BTCC, very few people even 
know it happened. 

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00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:12,520
But a good looking car, not 
particularly fast, but you know,

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a fair effort from from a team 
that really had two, two hands 

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tied behind his back. 
Apparently the shell was. 

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00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:25,240
I've read it somewhere that it 
was Pentia Rickler who was their

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00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,120
World Rally Championship star. 
It was his Rd car. 

217
00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,720
They didn't have anything else. 
They basically commanded. 

218
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,760
That's what I've read. 
He commanded his Rd car, which 

219
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,560
had been given by Mitsubishi, 
and they turned it into the into

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00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:40,880
the the race car. 
Wow. 

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00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,040
I think I read. 
I think I read that as well. 

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00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,240
Yeah, yeah, I think you're 
right. 

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00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,800
The Lancer looked too small to 
be a touring car. 

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00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,200
Yeah. 
And then the gallon, when you 

225
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:50,720
saw that, was absolutely 
massive. 

226
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,680
That was a big, old, big old 
car. 

227
00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:55,600
And I'm not sure that there was 
something not in the middle. 

228
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,640
You know, they used to have the 
Starion the year before, which 

229
00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,680
obviously it wasn't possible to 
to use. 

230
00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:04,080
But yeah, the the gallon seemed 
to be a bit of a big old barge, 

231
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:05,200
to be honest. 
Yeah. 

232
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,200
Could you imagine being Mr 
Mitsubishi ring out penty 

233
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,520
wrinkler and saying can you 
know, time to hand your car 

234
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:11,960
back? 
Sorry about that. 

235
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,240
Yeah. 
Wow. 

236
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,440
I think just going back to 91, 
that's what I like about the 

237
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,000
start. 
There was, there was still the 

238
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,720
chance that you could try and 
bring in something new. 

239
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,920
You know, Mitsubishi tried it 
with with the gland. 

240
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,880
There was still privateers, you 
know, we talk a lot about 

241
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,000
Peugeot in the BTCC, but there 
was actually a private here 

242
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:35,080
called Andrew McKenzie that 
actually bought a 4/05 into this

243
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:36,120
year's championship. 
He. 

244
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,800
Did, yeah. 
Yeah, he wasn't very successful,

245
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,080
but he at least he tried. 
You know, Dave Brody with his 

246
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:47,440
Sapphire 4x4 thing, but you 
know, it was full of still 

247
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,840
people trying to do things with 
cars. 

248
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:54,480
Graham Davis with his Motor 
Build Rover, which used to blow 

249
00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,600
attention up after about two 
corners, but again, they tried. 

250
00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,800
There was still that chance that
you could race. 

251
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,160
Wasn't there a Belmont in there 
at the end of the season as 

252
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:03,360
well? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

253
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,560
There was a Belmont that ended 
up where it was totalled. 

254
00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:08,200
Wasn't it the last race? 
Yeah, yeah. 

255
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,360
But you're right that that Rover
there are 4 pictures of it. 

256
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:17,360
Yes, yes. 
That exist as far as I'm aware. 

257
00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:19,400
I think it did as. 
Well, you took well. 

258
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,000
Wow, OK. 
I got one of his engine before 

259
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,720
it blew up. 
I've. 

260
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,560
Not seen yours, but yes yeah, 
it's I think it I think the one 

261
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:32,880
race it did actually start it 
lasted 3 laps yes yes, so but 

262
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,560
yeah, I love the stories like 
that. 

263
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:39,720
You know, the IT it, yeah, it 
was, it was at a time in the 

264
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,880
championship where you could try
something like that and maybe 

265
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:44,960
get away with it. 
But. 

266
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:46,480
I was going to say something 
similar. 

267
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,080
You know, at the start of the 
year, the era there was people 

268
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,440
were encouraged to come in. 
At the end of the era, it was 

269
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,680
all about money, manufacturer 
backing, or if you're a 

270
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,360
privateer, having something that
was, yeah, that had already been

271
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,440
there and done it. 
You know, you wouldn't, you 

272
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,520
wouldn't have had that bravado, 
so to speak. 

273
00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,240
So. 
Yeah, you, you look at Gareth 

274
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,680
Howell who tried to build that 
model, built that model in 99, 

275
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,800
you know, seconds. 
There are dozens of seconds off 

276
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,200
the pace after spending 
something like quarter of a 

277
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:23,120
million crazy. 
Time to practise was limited to 

278
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,880
a single 45 minute session 
following an untimed drum 

279
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,640
Saturday. 
When the times were settled, 

280
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,720
John Cleland topped the sheets 
in the Vauxhall Cavalier. 

281
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,560
McClelland had opted to gamble 
on a newly developed set of 

282
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,440
Dunlop radial tyres, using them 
for the first time, and then 

283
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,800
they immediately proved their 
worth in qualifying. 

284
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,680
The Scots set his benchmark time
on his first proper attempt, 

285
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,280
completing just 4 bedding in 
laps, followed by a single 

286
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,480
flying lap, before then 
returning to the garage to wait 

287
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,520
and see if anyone could beat it.
That's the first bit done, he 

288
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,840
remarked, confident that his 
early lap might well be enough. 

289
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,120
Steve Sopa was closest to 
Clement, just 71 hundredths 

290
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,120
behind the Scott in his works 
BMW. 

291
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,920
You only get one chance on these
tyres and I wasn't quite there 

292
00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,520
with them this time, Sopa told 
Auto Sport after the session. 

293
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,240
Championship leader Will Hoy was
next, despite the fact that he 

294
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,360
broke a gearbox on the Saturday 
morning. 

295
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,720
Alongside Hoy was Andy Rouse in 
the Toyota. 

296
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,320
Rouse's long run pace looked 
particularly strong, but I'm 

297
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,560
looking for more in the race. 
Sandy, Chris. 

298
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:39,320
The usual suspects of 1991 fit 
in that the top 2 rows of the 

299
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:40,800
grid there at Dunnington, aren't
they? 

300
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,040
Oh, absolutely. 
It was like a who's who of 

301
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,880
touring car legends that that 
that bonsai lap from John 

302
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:53,600
Cleland stealing pole and then 
sieve soap and next to him and 

303
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,120
then will Hoy the the you know, 
the championship championship 

304
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:02,520
leader and then Andy on on 4th 
position on the on the grid and 

305
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,359
all the all the ingredients of a
great start to the of the racing

306
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:07,359
weekend. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

307
00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:10,880
Tim Harvey qualified fifth 
fastest and was broadly 

308
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,960
satisfied with the balance of 
his car heading into the two 

309
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,920
races. 
The balance of the cars good. 

310
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,160
My tyres for the second leg felt
better than those for the first,

311
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:24,800
so I'm looking for a solid run 
in race one and a win in race 2,

312
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,079
Said Harvey, already planning 
how to approach the double 

313
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:31,720
header format. 
Greg, it's interesting to see 

314
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,080
that the drivers were already 
thinking about how to go about 

315
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:38,360
the new format sort of even 
before I guess the exploratory 

316
00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:40,400
phase, which was the races 
themselves. 

317
00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:43,920
Yeah, I think again was, we said
it was a step into the unknown. 

318
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,160
You know, I'm interested in 
these common there, that my 

319
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,280
tyres were better for one race 
than the other, which maybe 

320
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,200
shows that the tyre development 
was still not bringing 

321
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,320
consistency. 
You didn't know exactly what you

322
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,120
were going to get. 
And yeah, I guess having known 

323
00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:00,680
what touring car racing was 
like, maybe some drivers were 

324
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,520
going to be quite circumspecting
race one to make sure they got a

325
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,120
good start for race 2. 
And so, yeah, I think it, as we 

326
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:10,120
know it's it started to bring 
tactics into it rather than just

327
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:13,480
one bands like race where you, 
you just went for it to get the 

328
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,000
result. 
You know, you started to see 

329
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,480
maybe a bit of strategy coming 
into it and playing the longer 

330
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:24,040
game, shall we say. 
Jeff Allen secured 6th place on 

331
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:25,920
the grid. 
Although he felt there was a 

332
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,680
little more time to be found. 
He lost valuable temps during 

333
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,440
his quickest lap. 
After encountering traffic free,

334
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:38,120
the crane occurs. 
I lost about 0.2 or 0.3 seconds 

335
00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:41,400
on my best lap in the crane, the
curves when I came across Will 

336
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,920
who just stuffed the pits but it
felt good. 

337
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,800
Allum explained the second place
driver in the championship had 

338
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,800
opted to stick with the tried 
and tested Dunlop cross ply 

339
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,760
tyres rather than the new radial
tyres like teammate Cleland. 

340
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,920
Gary Ailes and Jonathan Palmer 
shared the four throw after 

341
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,840
setting identical lap times, 
with Ailes taking the inside 

342
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,640
slot by the virtue of posting 
his time first. 

343
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,880
Ailes was left frustrated, 
however, having been 0.39 

344
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,640
seconds slower than Andy Rounds 
despite matching his pace during

345
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,480
Saturday's running. 
I think I had my old single seat

346
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,680
to head on, chucking it in and 
flat everywhere. 

347
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,040
That just doesn't work in these 
cars. 

348
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,520
I'll calm down for the race, 
said Gary, who had pulled his 

349
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,680
elbow tendons during the 
session. 

350
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,120
Chris, interesting tea rails as 
comments there. 

351
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,320
There's still a lot to learn in 
in this form of racing at the 

352
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,200
time for him. 
Oh, absolutely it was. 

353
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,240
It's fascinating to hear that 
because he was fresh out of 

354
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,640
Formula three, done many years 
of falling the three and and the

355
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,360
junior formula. 
So he was, he was still 

356
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,640
relatively new to the, the Super
Touring, the two litre formula. 

357
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:57,160
And you have to remember that 
Andy's cars were all fitted 

358
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,880
without power steering. 
So they, they took a, a lot of 

359
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,280
physical effort to manhandle 
those, those cars. 

360
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,560
And it was a a completely 
different approach to racing. 

361
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,480
And, and Gary took a little bit 
of a while to, to, to adapt and 

362
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,880
I'm sure those tendons were were
saw for a while, a bit of 

363
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,080
massage. 
She'll be all right. 

364
00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:21,840
Ibuprofen at the time, but as he
proved he he quickly adapted 

365
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:23,400
and. 
And he went on to greater 

366
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,160
success in in superturion 
through the years. 

367
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:29,760
Yeah, it was interesting to hear
his comments when he came on the

368
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,960
pod, wasn't it that he, he 
himself said, you know, he was 

369
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,000
struggling to get his head 
around. 

370
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,080
And so many drivers have told us
that they've come from single 

371
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,560
seater backgrounds. 
They're so used to driving, you 

372
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,800
know, wings and slicks and then 
suddenly they're put in a not 

373
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,800
only a road car in their eyes, 
but it drives from the front 

374
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,040
wheels. 
It's like. 

375
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,160
And it had mudflaps. 
And it had. 

376
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
So, yeah, so it's quite, it's 

377
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,080
quite a change, isn't it? 
You know, and there's never more

378
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:07,760
than when Rydell said to us, you
know, he went from a winter of 

379
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:12,280
dreaming of Formula One to 
driving a Volvo estate four 

380
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,880
months. 
Later, I have a huge amount of 

381
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,680
admiration for for drivers like 
Gary that that can transition 

382
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,480
between different formulas 
because from the outside looking

383
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,000
in, it looks relatively easy, 
but you know, they're they're 

384
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:31,120
two, you know, 2 completely 
different beasts and to adapt in

385
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:34,560
the cut and thrust of the of two
litre formula. 

386
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:39,720
He was also on that, that that 
really weird sort of sort of 

387
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,480
short term contract to make sure
that he was up to speed, which, 

388
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,080
you know, he successfully 
passed. 

389
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,720
But yeah, to read that he was he
was struggling physically was 

390
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,840
wasn't the surprise, but also 
I'm I'm, you know, just feel of 

391
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,680
admiration for drivers like 
Ricard, right, like Gary, you 

392
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,440
know, many of the drivers did 
did transition across, didn't 

393
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,600
they? 
So Ala menu, another another. 

394
00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:08,240
Yeah, you know, and, and then 
you look at, as you say, Gary's 

395
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:12,120
career post 91, you know, he 
went out to Italy and did really

396
00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:14,200
well out there. 
So with Peugeot. 

397
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,120
So yeah, so he, he, he picked it
up and and he and he and he got 

398
00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:19,600
a good career out of it, so he 
did. 

399
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,160
Absolutely. 
Play to him. 

400
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,400
He'd never go back to single 
seaters, as it turned out, 

401
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,720
those, no, those tendons must 
have sorted themselves out. 

402
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,960
And he was. 
He looked back fondly. 

403
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,960
You know. 
Yeah, good man. 

404
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,760
Ray Bell was next on the grid, 
although his weekend had been 

405
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,840
far from straightforward. 
The BMW driver lost an engine 

406
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,760
during Saturday's session and 
then suffered A gearbox selector

407
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,000
shaft failure in the timed run, 
limiting the laps he could 

408
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,400
complete. 
Alongside him sat the steadily 

409
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,800
improving Nissan Primera of Kifo
Door. 

410
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,120
Their positions meant the top 10
was evenly split between 5 front

411
00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:01,880
wheel drive and five rear wheel 
drive cars, at least temporarily

412
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,320
quieting those who have been 
calling for heavier weight 

413
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,960
penalties for the rear wheel 
drive runners. 

414
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,280
Alex, the age-old touring car 
debate. 

415
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,720
Front wheel drive, rear wheel 
drive. 

416
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,280
It was raging on even then, 
wasn't it? 

417
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,000
Yeah. 
And it will rage on As for as 

418
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:23,280
long as they have different 
types of drive fighting against 

419
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,560
each other, there will always be
one argument against the other 

420
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,160
one. 
You know 11 school of thought 

421
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:35,000
fighting against the other one. 
And in the reality, reality of 

422
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,200
it all, is that they've both got
their pros and they've both got 

423
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,840
their cons. 
Yeah, it's good to know that 

424
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:46,880
even what we know 35 years ago 
they were still arguing about 

425
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,760
exactly the same stuff they're 
arguing about, you know? 

426
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:57,640
Yeah, Listen, the IT wasn't just
the fact that the BMWs were 

427
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,440
strong because their rear wheel 
drive BMW spent a year in what 

428
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,200
was the two litre formula in 
1990 in Class B. 

429
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,480
They'd spent the year dominating
that they already had perfectly 

430
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,880
fettled race cars. 
Those M threes were perfect. 

431
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:16,160
They were, they were so well 
maintained. 

432
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,600
They were, they had a lot of 
experience of running on all the

433
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,000
circuits. 
They had a year on the likes of 

434
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:29,120
Toyota and the likes of Ford and
the likes of Nissan and the only

435
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:30,640
other team that had that with 
Vauxhall. 

436
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,000
And is it a surprise that those 
are the two brands fighting up 

437
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,160
the front? 
No, it wasn't. 

438
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,360
That's exactly why it wasn't 
because one was rear wheel 

439
00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:38,480
drive, one was front wheel 
drive. 

440
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,600
That's all it was. 
Yeah. 

441
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:48,080
It's just a case of those BMWs 
are so well settled and so had 

442
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,760
so much knowledge from the 
previous year that they were 

443
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,840
going to be the favourites, they
were going to be the quickest 

444
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,280
and and Vauxhall not far behind 
because of the same for the same

445
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,320
reason. 
Yeah, even Vauxhall in 1990, 

446
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:00,880
they weren't really sure what to
do. 

447
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,320
They tried a front wheel drive 
Cavalier, a rear wheel drive 

448
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,720
Cavalier and I think they even 
tried a four wheel drive 

449
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,720
Cavalier as well because they 
were really playing with what 

450
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,400
actually is the right, right 
configuration to have. 

451
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,360
So they were still a little bit 
behind BMW as well, I think. 

452
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,080
Yeah, I think Berridge drove a 
rear and a four. 

453
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:20,720
I think so, yeah. 
Yeah. 

454
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,800
Yeah, Chris Hodgetts was in the 
real real drive one in there 

455
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:26,920
1990. 
Yeah. 

456
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,200
And. 
David Coulthard. 

457
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:36,120
Coulthard did the front wheel 
drive one because it's a funny 

458
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:38,080
anecdote. 
I always, I always enjoy telling

459
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:44,120
it that he did the one race at 
Brands Hatch partly because of 

460
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:45,960
his contract with Formula 
Vauxhall. 

461
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,040
And then he went to race Formula
Vauxhall at Spa, crashed and 

462
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,120
broke his leg and he was quite 
pleased because I don't know if 

463
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:54,480
I have to drive that Cavalier 
again. 

464
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:59,560
And Marcus Oestreich drove it as
well. 

465
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,120
Row 6 was an all Ford affair. 
Andy Middlehurst's Grain Good 

466
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:11,680
Racing Sierra narrowly edged Rob
Gravitz track star Run Sapphire,

467
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,880
although the field remained 
tightly packed with all the Ford

468
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,640
runners within a second of John 
Clellon's pole time. 

469
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,240
Middlehurst had missed much of 
the session due to a leak in the

470
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,880
fuel system, further limiting 
his chances to improve. 

471
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,200
Gravette, meanwhile, felt he had
extracted the maximum from his 

472
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,640
car. 
It won't go any quicker, he 

473
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,440
admitted before, and 
incompetently, but I'll be able 

474
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,600
to run that sort of time 
consistently in the race. 

475
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:41,480
I think it's worth mentioning 
the track Star Sapphire I think 

476
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,920
was a bit of an enigma. 
It still is one of my favourite 

477
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:47,880
liveried cars. 
I think it looked absolutely 

478
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,000
fantastic. 
But the concepts of that car 

479
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,960
there was there. 
I think it was a rally guy that 

480
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,360
was the designer and they they 
thought it would be a really 

481
00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:59,720
good idea to put the gearbox in 
the boot because it gave better 

482
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,560
weight distribution. 
And basically all it did is turn

483
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,760
it into a spinning top and the 
car would like rotate the 

484
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,320
slightest of things. 
As we saw at Darlington. 

485
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,360
Yeah, yeah, exactly. 
But I think it was such a shame 

486
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:14,880
because they when they announced
that that deal, it was going to 

487
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,640
be a three car team. 
It's going to be Gravett, Mike 

488
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,880
Smith and Sean Walker. 
And I think if they had have hit

489
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,960
the ground running, that would 
have been quite a formidable 

490
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,520
team, you know, a three car 
team. 

491
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,800
But yeah, as we know, we only 
ever saw one of them. 

492
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,000
There were two built. 
The Smith Carl did get built but

493
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,960
never actually got to race. 
Then went off to Portugal and I 

494
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,360
think they're now back in the 
country again trying to be 

495
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:41,640
restored. 
But I I still love that car. 

496
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,200
I think it looked fantastic. 
But it's a beautiful car. 

497
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,720
Yeah, just didn't go very well. 
No better than the Gallant, 

498
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,680
though. 
Yeah, but marginally. 

499
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:56,840
Marginally, not a lot, but. 
I think in 1990 Ralph sports 

500
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,960
team put out a Sapphire as well 
and that was raced by a whole 

501
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:02,520
House of drivers getting from 
particularly. 

502
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,920
Well, then that's right, yeah. 
Bob Berry drove that as well. 

503
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,160
Jay Wheels had it at one point, 
didn't he? 

504
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,360
Yeah, in 93. 
Yeah, he bought it. 

505
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:16,280
Hodgetson Baum drove it in 1990.
Then it disappeared and it 

506
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,920
appeared again in 93 when Jim 
Wheels. 

507
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,480
Jim Wheels, Sorry, Yeah. 
Jim Wheels and Snetterson raced 

508
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,560
it, blew the engine up in 
practise so again, very few 

509
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,880
pictures of it. 
I've got one I think. 

510
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,480
And then he sold it to Bob 
Berridge, who then raced it for 

511
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,240
the back end of the season. 
Whose famous moment was getting 

512
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,760
in the way of Paul Radesitch at 
Brands Hatch when he was trying 

513
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:43,320
to lap him? 
But in the 1990s season, I think

514
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,320
it was Bauman Hawaiian Tropic 
sponsorship. 

515
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,360
That's right. 
Yeah, iconic Lamont type sports 

516
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,600
car sponsorship came across. 
But yeah, again, it was another 

517
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,440
great looking car, but not very 
competitive. 

518
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,840
Lawrence Bristow lined up next 
on the grid after struggling 

519
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,880
with an unexplained braking 
issue throughout the session. 

520
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,640
Despite the problem, he remained
reasonably satisfied with the 

521
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,760
overall balance of the car. 
Alongside him on row 7 was Nick 

522
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:15,040
Baird in the Tech Speed BM WM3. 
Baird felt that the car itself 

523
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,320
was performing well, even if he 
suspected he might have been 

524
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,080
pushing a little too hard. 
I think I'm overdriving it a 

525
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,760
bit, but the car is good, he 
admitted. 

526
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,800
Row 8 featured Nick Well and 
Frank Sitna. 

527
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,720
Well was frustrated not to have 
qualified higher up the order, 

528
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,040
while Sydney endured a 
particularly difficult session 

529
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,160
as he chased an elusive handling
problem that eventually resulted

530
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,240
in flat spotted tyres. 
Completing the grid were Ian 

531
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,840
Forrest and Mark Hales. 
Forrest continued to compete 

532
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,480
cheerfully on a budget that, as 
many in the paddock noted, would

533
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,440
scarcely cover the paddock bike 
bills of some of the larger 

534
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,440
teams. 
Hales, meanwhile, was contended 

535
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,560
with the inevitable teaming 
problems of the brand new 

536
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,760
Mitsubishi Gallant, a car that 
had been little more than a 

537
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,320
painted shell just 8 days 
earlier. 

538
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,360
We shouldn't really be here, but
a lot of effort has gone into 

539
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,640
promoting this particular 
meeting and we wanted to support

540
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,040
it, Hales explained. 
All the effort from the 

541
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:23,080
manufacturers, the RACMSASO and 
the Donington Park circuit 

542
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,480
ultimately paid off of the 
event, drawing a crowd of more 

543
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:32,960
than 30,000 spectators. 
Greg 30,000 spectators in the 

544
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,640
later years of Super Touring 
wasn't really a headline crowd, 

545
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,240
but in 91 that was a major draw.
Was it really a sign of how big 

546
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,400
the following of the 
championship was becoming, even 

547
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,560
at this early stage of the era? 
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 

548
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,000
I think outside of F1 there 
would be no other championship 

549
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,880
that would get such a grid. 
I didn't ever go to Group C race

550
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,840
Crystal, I know you did, but I 
don't think even knows when they

551
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,240
were standalone events would 
have got 30,000 people there. 

552
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,840
So yeah, I think the television 
coverage and the knowledge of 

553
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,240
what was happening with British 
touring cars, this was really 

554
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,920
the first sign that it was 
beginning to build up to be 

555
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:14,400
something quite special. 
The race day at Donington Park 

556
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,600
arrived with a sense of genuine 
anticipation. 

557
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,360
The innovative doubleheader 
format meant spectators for 

558
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:26,800
ceased 2 BTCC races on the same 
afternoon, effectively doubling 

559
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,080
the action. 
Chris. 

560
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,800
There were a few people who 
thought that the short break of 

561
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,720
just 10 minutes between the 
races might make the first race 

562
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,240
a bit of a procession. 
Nobody wasn't saying to the risk

563
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,280
damage in the car then failing 
to start the second. 

564
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,160
Do you think with the grid of 
drivers that we had on show that

565
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,360
was a possibility? 
I think there's a number of 

566
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:54,520
factors in play really. 
As this was a a new feature for 

567
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,160
the BTCC, drivers didn't know 
which way to play it, so there 

568
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,280
was there. 
There probably was an element of

569
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,080
strategy going easy in the 1st 
place. 

570
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:09,240
They did have a new set of tyres
available for Race 2, so they 

571
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,000
could rely on those. 
So they weren't, they weren't 

572
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,840
looking after the the same set 
for the two races. 

573
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,080
But as we as we'll chat about in
a minute, that that element of 

574
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,880
strategy probably went out the 
window and there was some pretty

575
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,280
hard racing and people falling 
by the wayside. 

576
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,880
And there are lots of doors 
being rubbed, panel being 

577
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:36,280
shared, paint being shared and 
it it was an absolutely 

578
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,680
fascinating weekend. 
The two races were the three 

579
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:45,120
starts. 2 races were absolutely 
amazing and and and served up a 

580
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,160
real huge amount of talking 
points about the race. 

581
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,640
It was Hoy from the 2nd row who 
got the best start, weaving 

582
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,240
between Cleland and Sopa and 
trying to go round the outside 

583
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,320
of the Cavalier Red Gate. 
The pair were side by side down 

584
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,680
to the Craner Curves where Hoy 
tucked in behind, but Mcclain's 

585
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,240
will dive past to take the lead 
and that proved only a temporary

586
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,440
reprieve for Cleland. 
At Mclean's, Hoy made his move, 

587
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,440
stick diving paths to seize the 
lead with the slightest touch. 

588
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,800
Behind them, Sofa was also on 
the attack, drawn alongside 

589
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,960
Cleland along the straight 
before out breaking him into the

590
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:30,240
chicane to claim 2nd place Alex.
Very differing fortunes for 

591
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,760
Pulsar, Cleland and Hoyi there 
on that one. 

592
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,760
Yeah, Will Hoy, proving why he 
was leading the championship 

593
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:42,800
would start did well, you know, 
and and John, John seemed to be 

594
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,120
struggling with these. 
You mentioned in in the 

595
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:50,600
qualifying report that you you 
read out that Clement was trying

596
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,080
these new radial tyres and he 
was the only one in Vauxhall 

597
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,960
doing it. 
Jeff Allen wasn't and basically 

598
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,240
he was having trouble getting 
them race ready. 

599
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,680
They were quite different to 
what he was used to and they 

600
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,560
required obviously a very 
different preparation to to get 

601
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,400
them race ready and he's 
struggled because of it. 

602
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:19,600
So yeah, yeah, it's very unlike 
John to drop places at the 

603
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,920
start. 
But yeah, it's always good 

604
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,280
seeing John and and Will 
fighting though, because they're

605
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,520
always two guys that will give 
each other good bit of respect. 

606
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:33,120
Cleland suddenly found 
themselves shuffled back as the 

607
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,880
field streamed through behind, 
with Andy Rouse next in line, 

608
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,920
followed by a Tim Harvey, Gary 
Ailes, Jeff Allum, Jonathan 

609
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,960
Palmer and Ray Bell. 
At the start of lap 2, going up 

610
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,719
to Rd Gate, Harvey and Ailes 
clashed before Allum also got 

611
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,719
involved, firing Ailes off with 
his Toyota, ingesting gravel 

612
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:57,480
into the engine and ruining it. 
Alan had also dropped to 9th as 

613
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,720
a consequence. 
Greg, how long did you see that 

614
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:02,360
one? 
Felt a little bit a little bit 

615
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,360
clumsy interactive, didn't it? 
Yeah, I think it was a what's 

616
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,440
become a bit of a standard Red 
Gate type incident. 

617
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,840
Too many cars going into one bit
that you either get fired off 

618
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,120
onto the inside or fired off to 
the outside. 

619
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,400
It won't be the first. 
It wasn't the last time that 

620
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,400
we'd discussed such a such a 
manoeuvre with someone coming 

621
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,960
off worse than the others. 
So yeah, I think a typical 

622
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:30,600
Torlington Red Gate incident. 
Rouse soon got past Cleland and 

623
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,400
started to chase down Sopa. 
On lap five he launched A 

624
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,880
determined attack for 2nd place.
The Toyota's impressive straight

625
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,440
line speed briefly carried him 
ahead of Sopa, but the BMW 

626
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,800
driver refused to concede and 
held his ground on the run into 

627
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,920
the chicane. 
Turning in alongside his rival, 

628
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,760
Rouse was forced over the curbs 
at the first apex, allowing Sopa

629
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:58,000
to reclaim the position. 
A lap later, Rouse tried again, 

630
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:00,440
this time making the move stick 
cleanly. 

631
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:05,120
Recognising the situation, Sopa 
chose not to fight too hard and 

632
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,080
allowed the Toyota through a 
four. 

633
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,480
Atlantean will try to take each 
other off and come back at them 

634
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,160
later. 
So for Explain Chris, was this 

635
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,800
the strongest showing of the 
season so far for the Rouse 

636
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,600
Toyota combination? 
Oh, absolutely. 

637
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,520
I think well, they definitely 
had shown some pace earlier in 

638
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,760
the season, you know, being 
knocked off by Jonathan Palmer 

639
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,440
and at the start of the the 
first round and then making his 

640
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,040
way up and and battling with 
Andy Middlehurst and then 

641
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,080
securing A podium at at 
Snetterson. 

642
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:42,440
But this this race was another 
step on and the and the 

643
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,520
straights of Donnington really 
proved to the benefit of the of 

644
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,920
the Toyota had a huge amount of 
of horsepower coming from the 

645
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:56,440
the mighty Toyota engine. 
And as, as Steve said in the 

646
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,640
middle in the break between the 
two races, we'll come to you 

647
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,720
know, he just couldn't live with
the speed of the Toyota and and 

648
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:07,360
he quickly caught up with will 
as as well as soon soon 

649
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,840
discussed, but also just going 
back to Gary Ayles. 

650
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,160
He's also showing a lot of pace.
I know he, he'd stretched some 

651
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,920
tendons, but he was looking, you
know, pretty racy at the start 

652
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,600
of, of Race 1. 
So on the, you know, on the, 

653
00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:24,560
the, the potential for both the 
twitters to do well in that race

654
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,960
was was pretty strong. 
But unfortunately Gary got 

655
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,400
knocked off into the gravel. 
Yeah. 

656
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,960
I think in the commentary Murray
mentioned it was Magic Ralph's 

657
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,440
engineering touch coming and 
they also mentioned something 

658
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,200
about new suspension for that 
weekend. 

659
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,800
So I think there was a a number 
of things that maybe were on the

660
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,520
car that helped it. 
But as you said, Chris, the 

661
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,360
engine speed and the power was 
like something else on the back 

662
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,520
straight. 
Well, there's the the, the the 

663
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,240
race before was the British GP 
support and the real drive cars 

664
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:59,160
all dominated that. 
And it wasn't a particularly 

665
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,720
strong weekend for the Toyotas 
on the Silverstone GP. 

666
00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:05,480
So Fast forward a couple of 
weeks and there'd been a huge 

667
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,880
amount of work on the handling, 
you know, suspension as I 

668
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:13,720
understand and, and, and, and 
Andy was probably getting his 

669
00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:17,560
head round front wheel drive. 
He'd never raced front wheel 

670
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,000
drive for many, many years. 
And so this was everything 

671
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,040
coming together And it was, like
you said at the end, absolutely 

672
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,920
brilliant. 
So you know, it was a perfect 

673
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,480
cocktail. 
On lap 9 Wilho, you run into 

674
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,560
trouble coming out of the 
chicane, missing a gear at a 

675
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,160
crucial moment. 
I was having to snatch fur as I 

676
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,040
ran up the curb there, which is 
tricky, Hoy explained. 

677
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,760
The following lap brought more 
frustration as he missed the 

678
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,360
same shift again, instantly 
erasing the small gap he had 

679
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,680
managed to open up on Andy 
Rouse, letting the Toyota 

680
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:53,440
through an int the lead. 
Meanwhile, Hoy's engine was 

681
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,080
beginning to suffer and he 
started to slip rapidly down the

682
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,440
order. 
By lap 18 he had fallen back to 

683
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,760
10th place up front, so you pick
up the pressure on Rouse, 

684
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,480
shadowing him closely but never 
quite close enough to mount a 

685
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:13,360
serious challenge for the lead. 
Eventually, on lap 21, Holly 

686
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,680
retired from the race having 
already dropped well out of the 

687
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,120
points positions. 
And it's pretty bad. 

688
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:21,480
Lot of football there, wasn't 
it? 

689
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,000
Yeah, it was bizarre. 
It seemed to be the weekend of 

690
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,240
everyone missing their gears 
because it happened to a fair 

691
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:35,200
few people this weekend. 
But yeah, it's, it's funny, 

692
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,840
isn't it? 
How you wouldn't even think 

693
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,880
nowadays when you think of 
motorsport, towing, car racing, 

694
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,280
you know, whatever the GTS, 
Formula One, it's all electronic

695
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,400
and it's all sequential. 
You know, you don't miss a gear.

696
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:53,040
You can't miss a gear. 
Whereas I love watching them, 

697
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,360
you know, with their H pattern 
boxes into first into second, 

698
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:03,920
you know, and it was. 
I don't know not not better, but

699
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,120
I, I enjoyed that side of the of
the sport then. 

700
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:13,680
And and it was actually RML that
brought the sequential boxing in

701
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:19,760
in the Cavalier in 9293. 
That was soon adopted by every 

702
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,320
single person obviously because 
it was a lot quicker. 

703
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:25,040
So it eradicated these sorts of 
things. 

704
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,160
But you can tell Will had messed
up because as soon as he over 

705
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,320
revved from missing that gear, 
there's a little orange LED 

706
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:37,640
flashing on his dash that yeah, 
you can see in car when they go 

707
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,040
to the in car footage. 
And. 

708
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:44,000
And that's what you think. 
Oh yeah, I've done. 

709
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,600
And the thing with this is 
you've got 10 minutes between 

710
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,520
the two races. 
You can't change an engine in 10

711
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,280
minutes. 
If it's a major problem, we'll 

712
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:54,960
probably talk about it later 
maybe. 

713
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,360
But the whole thing of having 10
minutes between races is wild to

714
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:00,520
me. 
But yeah. 

715
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,480
And and that's to me, that's 
where the the element of 

716
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,800
strategy probably wasn't there. 
These guys are all races, right?

717
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,360
They want to win. 
So Will was trying as hard as he

718
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,720
could to, you know, lead the 
pack, win the race. 

719
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,880
And he was trying to get away 
from, you know, Andy was it was 

720
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,320
closing up on him and he missed.
He missed again, like you say, 

721
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,000
it's unthinkable these days how 
you'd miss a gear. 

722
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,360
But back then with those sort 
of, I'd imagine sort of 

723
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:32,840
agricultural sort of H pad and 
gearbox, you know, the, the the 

724
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,480
the comeback was was, you know, 
you missed a gear. 

725
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,520
That was it weekend over. 
And yeah, it was. 

726
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,880
It was fascinating. 
Yeah, it's an engine gone, isn't

727
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:43,640
it? 
You know, Yeah. 

728
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:47,960
Andy Rouse held firm to take the
victory, crossing the line at 

729
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,000
0.49 seconds ahead of the 
relentless Steve. 

730
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,960
So you put a more substantial 
gap then opened up to John 

731
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,120
Cleland, who is being closely 
pursued by Jonathan Palmer, Jeff

732
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,480
Allen and Ray Baum, who had 
briefly dropped back after 

733
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,840
adjusting his break bias the 
wrong way, only to recover once 

734
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,760
corrected with Andy Middlehurst 
complete. 

735
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,720
In the top group further down 
the order, Lawrence Bristow ran 

736
00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:16,600
ahead of Rob Gravett, Keith 
Odour, Nick Well and Nick Baird,

737
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,600
while Ian Forrest and Mark Hills
endured troubled afternoons, 

738
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,920
finishing one and two laps down.
Respectfully, Greg. 

739
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,160
That felt like a tiny win for 
Andy and the Toyota package, 

740
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,160
didn't it? 
Yeah, I think so. 

741
00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:33,960
As we said, you know, Andy was 
dominant in his RS500. 

742
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:38,360
This was a completely new car, 
new front wheel drive. 

743
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,800
Toyota would sort of new to the 
championship as well. 

744
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,280
This was probably the first 
winner outside of the normal 

745
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,440
recognised BMW Vauxhall. 
So you know, we've got a new 

746
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,160
player in the park now and they 
were getting competitive and it 

747
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:58,040
was it was fantastic to see. 
So yeah, I think really timely 

748
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:03,600
and great for the championship. 
I'd totally echo that. 

749
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:08,400
I think the the stranglehold by 
Vauxhall and BMW, as we talked 

750
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,880
about earlier, was, was 
therefore to see. 

751
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:16,000
So as the new kid on the block, 
if you like turning up and and 

752
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,400
Andy's team being so used to 
rear wheel drive and then 

753
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,280
adapting to front wheel drive 
was, it was fascinating, 

754
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,360
absolutely fascinating and 
really good for the 

755
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,640
championship. 
After 10 minutes of frantic 

756
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,720
action in the pits, the cars and
drivers lined up to go again in 

757
00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:37,120
the finishing order from Race 1.
Chris, is this that the best 

758
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,680
simplest way to sort out the 
grid for a double header? 

759
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:45,320
Oh, I think so. 
This was a new idea for the 

760
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,640
championship so that it seemed 
like the most logical thing to 

761
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,640
do. 
And I think it also added an 

762
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:57,680
element of spice. 
If you like the the winner of 

763
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,640
race one becomes the haunted of 
race 2. 

764
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,680
So they it was almost like a 
battle redrawn if you like, and 

765
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,640
away we go again. 
So it was a really, really good 

766
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:15,840
idea for them without any weight
balance or or anything like that

767
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,920
that we would that we get used 
to these days. 

768
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,960
Back then that just seemed like 
a most, you know, easy, common 

769
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,200
sense way for the not only the 
championship to follow, but also

770
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,440
the public to follow as well. 
I think I just started twitching

771
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,080
at the the the mention of 
ballast and reverse grids and oh

772
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:36,880
picking. 
Balls through the ball. 

773
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,240
That don't start, don't start me
all that nonsense. 

774
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:46,400
I I the the, the yeah, I mean, I
listen, I know people are I'm 

775
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,360
I'm going into victim LG mode 
now. 

776
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:55,320
But yes, picking balls out of a 
a bingo ball, just what on earth

777
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,880
is the chat just. 
Just make it simple for the the 

778
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,240
followers. 
Yeah, I think if I could just 

779
00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:03,560
drop in just from the TV courage
as well. 

780
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,760
There's a there's a classic 
Murray ISM that's that that was 

781
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:09,520
played on the on the TV 
carriage. 

782
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,160
So Andy's walking through the 
pit garriage and he says, oh 

783
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,560
look, he's going off to get a 
breathe and have a drink, but he

784
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,080
doesn't look best pleased. 
It looks like you've given him a

785
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:23,640
fiver and taken £10 back. 
You know, that's, that's like 

786
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,840
I've never used them, isn't it? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 

787
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,120
Yeah. 
But yeah, yeah. 

788
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,120
I don't want to dunk on the 
championship currently, but 

789
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:39,680
yeah, just reverse grids, balls 
in a bowl, weight penalties and 

790
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,120
all the all the eclectic mix of 
things that they do these days. 

791
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:47,800
Yeah, just too much, too much. 
It's, it's too artificial now, 

792
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:49,720
yeah. 
But I think that's my point. 

793
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:53,000
It was a really hot day as well.
And I think as you said, the 

794
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:54,680
drivers are professional 
drivers. 

795
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,760
But fitness, I'm not sure that 
going to the gym on a regular 

796
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,520
thing was probably at the top of
their agenda at that time. 

797
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,760
And no sports nutrition and 
stuff about how it's sort of 

798
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,400
changing. 
Andy looked rather hot and hot 

799
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,560
and bothered, so I'm sure some 
of them probably were also 

800
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,520
struggling physically to think, 
my God, I've got to go and do 

801
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,080
this again in 10 minutes. 
Yeah. 

802
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,320
So I think that's another 
dimension that they probably 

803
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,480
hadn't even considered. 
I was just going to drive the 

804
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,520
car in. 
Maybe the only one that may have

805
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:26,040
been ready for that was SOPA, 
because I think at the DTM at 

806
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,680
that time, they did already 
multiple races in the weekend. 

807
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,840
Maybe out of all of them, he was
the best suited to deal with it.

808
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:36,480
It was a weird concoction as 
well. 

809
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,360
It was doubled the amount of 
races. 

810
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:42,080
So two race, 2 races, you only 
get half points for each. 

811
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,160
Yeah, it was, it was. 
There's a, there's a phrase for 

812
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,160
it, but it was it, you know, 
when you look back on it now, 

813
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,960
you think wow, they're they're 
racing for 50 laps for, for 24 

814
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:59,720
points and it's wow. 
I don't know if you remember as 

815
00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:02,480
well, there was a pickup truck 
that went up and down the start 

816
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,960
line with a big scoring board on
it that did the countdown 

817
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,320
because the teams you know ain't
got a clue where it all started 

818
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,240
when the terminus start and 
stop. 

819
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:13,560
So this pickup truck was just 
like driving up and down the 

820
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,840
start line straight. 
With the with the proper old 

821
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:22,160
school yellow and black numbers.
Yeah, that's it. 

822
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:22,680
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

823
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,000
Gosh. 
And Alex, it is just mad to 

824
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,960
think, isn't it? 
The teams only had 10 minutes to

825
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,280
work on their cars and then the 
drivers had to jump back in and 

826
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,200
do the second race like it was 
nothing. 

827
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,680
Yeah. 
I mean, as Greg just mentioned, 

828
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:45,280
the driver fitness came into it,
damage came into it, you know, 

829
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:51,120
because all body work had to be 
secured and the cars had to look

830
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,000
like the road going version at 
the start of every race. 

831
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:58,000
So you couldn't you couldn't 
start with bumpers missing or, 

832
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,040
you know, that that sort of 
thing that you, you if you had a

833
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:03,640
damaged ring, you had to replace
it. 

834
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,960
You couldn't just take it off 
and we'll start without it or 

835
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:08,200
whatever. 
Do you know what I mean? 

836
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:15,680
So yeah, the idea now that you 
do and it and it stayed until 

837
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,920
1995 because in 94 it was the 10
minute period as well. 

838
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:24,480
So this this was a regular 
feature until the middle of the 

839
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:29,800
of the era. 
So yeah, it's it's wild to think

840
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,400
of it now. 
And then you think later on in 

841
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,200
the era. 
Can you imagine they'd have done

842
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,680
it? 
Like, for example, that's just 

843
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,400
off the top of my head, 
Donnington 98 when Nigel went in

844
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,320
the tyre in race one. 
He's not starting race 2 because

845
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,840
we're sorry, racing needed those
good two, 2 1/2 three hours 

846
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:49,560
between the races to fix the 
car. 

847
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,720
So maybe it would have curbed 
the amount of damage that the 

848
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:58,600
the the the championship had 
during the middle of the era. 

849
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:04,760
But no, it's yeah, if you would 
suggest that now nobody, nobody 

850
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,760
would go with it. 
It's it's a funny 1, isn't it? 

851
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:13,160
It's certainly something new, a 
novel step into the unknown and 

852
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:18,320
and it was like a bit of risk by
the organisers, you know, and 

853
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:19,800
suck it and see and see how we 
go on. 

854
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,280
And like you said that when it 
lasted for a good few seasons, 

855
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:28,000
so it probably the championship 
outgrew how relevant that was. 

856
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,960
You know, that after that the 
teams needed more time, the cars

857
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,560
were more complicated and it 
wasn't just a case of bolting on

858
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:37,920
new tyres, refuelling and and 
getting the tank tape out. 

859
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:39,360
It was. 
It was so much more than that, 

860
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:40,640
wasn't it? 
Yeah, you're right. 

861
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:45,280
I think even if there was a 
perfectly undamaged car, it 

862
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,800
would take more than 10 minutes 
towards the end of the era to 

863
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:51,480
get it ready for the second 
race. 

864
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:57,360
Yeah, yeah. 
Rouse LED race 2 from pole 

865
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:02,000
position into Redgate, followed 
by Cleland, Super and Alan who'd

866
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,560
survived a wallop from Palmer on
the run up to the first corner. 

867
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,160
As the field came around to 
complete the opening lap, John 

868
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,960
Cleland and Andy Rouse was side 
by side with Rouse holding the 

869
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,360
inside line. 
Despite this, Cleland produced a

870
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,520
superb move under breaking to 
outbreak the Toyota and snatch 

871
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,640
the lead. 
This time Cleland had his ties 

872
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:27,040
fully up to temperature and 
immediately looked on the pace. 

873
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,520
By contrast Rouse appeared less 
settled than he had earlier in 

874
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:34,680
race one and a lap 2 super dive 
past him for 2nd place at the 

875
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,960
old hairpin. 
At the end of lap 2 the orders 

876
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:43,080
stood Cleland, Super Rouse, Alan
Belm, Palmer, Bristow and 

877
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:45,720
Harvey, the Lasser having 
charged from the back of the 

878
00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:50,600
grid, followed by Gravett, 
Middlehurst, a Door, Baird Wail 

879
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,160
and Hails Greg. 
That's quite a breathtaking 

880
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,120
start to the second race. 
Moves all over the shot weren't 

881
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,120
there. 
Yeah, and I think we're after 

882
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,640
the first race, it actually got 
a bit spread out and you sort of

883
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,000
watch the coverage back again. 
You thought, oh, actually the 

884
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:06,760
the cars were a lot more spread 
apart. 

885
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,160
They weren't so competitive. 
The pack for when you watch the 

886
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:13,040
second race and at the start 
it's like absolutely incredible.

887
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,680
There was all of these cars and 
then they want to fall together.

888
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,160
So it like completely closed up 
again. 

889
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,680
So maybe the maybe the grid with
the the results from race one, 

890
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,840
it mixed it up a little bit, 
some faster cars coming through.

891
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,400
But yeah, it was, it was quite 
a, quite a first couple of laps 

892
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,440
to be honest. 
On lap free, Sopa made his move 

893
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,000
for the lead, diving down the 
inside at the chicane, but 

894
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:39,000
Cleland firmly shut the door. 
In the brief hesitation that 

895
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,600
followed, Round seized the 
opportunity to reclaim second 

896
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:46,560
place at Redgate. 
Then came the decisive moment. 

897
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,520
Approaching the old hairpin, 
Cleland accidentally selected 

898
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,680
second gear instead of 4th, 
instantly costing him momentum. 

899
00:51:55,240 --> 00:51:58,600
In a matter of seconds he 
tumbled back to 5th place, 

900
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,560
dropping behind the charging 
rainbow, at the moment the 

901
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:06,640
fastest man on the circuit along
with Alan, whilst Palmer, 

902
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,720
Bristow and Harvey closed up 
tightly behind in a rapidly 

903
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:16,160
forming train. 
Chris, this vast amount of 

904
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,960
action going on, do you think 
this is kind of response to that

905
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,920
the double header format drivers
not really having to be as 

906
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:28,720
careful this race, thinking 
about not thinking about the 

907
00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:31,440
race to come? 
Oh, you're absolutely right. 

908
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,360
The shackles are off. 
These guys are going to toe to 

909
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,560
toe. 
There's a win up for grabs and 

910
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,880
you've got some absolute 
pioneers, some legends of BTCC 

911
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,080
and well touring car racing 
going toe to toe and and 

912
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,480
importance of the race in front 
of a pack crowd. 

913
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,960
Good weather. 
They know that there's a race to

914
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:56,880
be won and you know you got 
Cleland, Steve Sopa, you sadly 

915
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:58,400
will help always drop to the 
race. 

916
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:02,120
Andy Rouse, Jeff Allen, Tim 
Harvey steaming up through the 

917
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:04,160
pack and it got people out their
seats. 

918
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:05,480
This is what people wanted to 
see. 

919
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,920
Fantastic. 
So it was seen back in the lead 

920
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,240
of the race having outbreak 
rounds into the old hairpin. 

921
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:16,760
Next time around, Bell's race 
took a dramatic turn when his 

922
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:18,680
gear leavers snapped at Red 
Gate. 

923
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:23,680
Suddenly left with only a short 
jagged stump to work with, Bell 

924
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,560
not only dropped back to 8th 
place but also suffered a badly 

925
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:29,840
cut hand as he tried to 
continue. 

926
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,440
Alex, that's a really nasty 
incident for Bell. 

927
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,360
ME was lightning quick at this 
point in the race. 

928
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,760
Yeah, it's a shame because 
that's quite an unusual 

929
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,360
incident, isn't it? 
Normally your gear stick is 

930
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,760
pretty, is pretty sturdy. 
Yeah, yeah. 

931
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:51,560
So, yeah, it's and and and 
fricked, of course, such a a 

932
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:55,760
nasty injury to his to his hand 
as well, but not surprising. 

933
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:58,240
Ray Balm was a very, very quick 
driver. 

934
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,360
Is a very was a very quick 
driver in the era he was. 

935
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,880
He was very quick in GTS with 
Gordon Spice in the 80s, moved 

936
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,320
to touring cars in the 90s. 
He did well in 91 actually 

937
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,600
couple of podiums, finished 
fifth in the championship. 

938
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:20,280
He's a good peddler and it was 
good to see him up front and and

939
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,480
racing with the, the, the, the 
pack then you know, because it 

940
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:27,760
didn't always transpire that he 
would be in the battles for, for

941
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:32,280
victory or, or for the podium. 
So yeah, good to see Ray Balm up

942
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:36,320
the front and yeah, just a 
nasty, horrible incident with 

943
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,120
his, with his gear stick and his
hand. 

944
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,920
Nasty. 
On lap 7, the drama continued 

945
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,400
when Super slowed dramatically 
on the exit of the chicane. 

946
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:51,480
Rounds running close behind had 
no chance to avoid sight contact

947
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,520
before pulling out and sweeping 
past to take the lead. 

948
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,400
Super sudden loss of pace was 
caused by a fuel pump circuit 

949
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,880
breaker that had tripped as he 
scrambled to push it back in 

950
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,240
place. 
He was helpless as the rest of 

951
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:08,880
the field stream passed Greg. 
An unfortunate blow for Sopa 

952
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:12,360
there he was looking strong, and
it was a another absolutely 

953
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,760
bizarre way for someone to lose 
places, wasn't it? 

954
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:20,160
Yeah, I think yeah, we we sort 
of all expected so for the big 

955
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,360
superstar who's just going to 
dominate everything. 

956
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:26,480
And as you said already, our BMW
sort of bought a very well honed

957
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,240
package to the championship and,
and, and in this year. 

958
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:32,720
But some silly things were 
happening that, you know, fuel 

959
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:36,480
pumps, breaker tripping, You'd 
have thought that'd have been 

960
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,040
ironed out long ago. 
But yeah, some strange and 

961
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:41,720
unusual things befitted the Pro 
Drive cars. 

962
00:55:41,720 --> 00:55:44,480
And it wasn't the first time 
that he had technical issues 

963
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:46,000
during that season. 
Yeah. 

964
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,880
Meanwhile, at Mclean's Wales, 
race came to an abrupt end when 

965
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,920
his engine seized. 
The stricken car dumped the 

966
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:57,040
large quantity of oil onto the 
circuit, sending whales spinning

967
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:01,000
helplessly into the sand trap. 
Teammate Baird very nearly 

968
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,960
collected him in the aftermath, 
but his wild slide eventually 

969
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,760
carried him across to the grass 
on the inside of the circuit. 

970
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,720
Climbing out to inspect the 
damage, Well lifted the bonnet 

971
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,840
only to look up and see Hales, 
his brand new Mitsubishi gallon,

972
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:21,600
heading directly towards him 
while wisely died for cover. 

973
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:26,480
Chris, that could have been 
really nasty, couldn't it? 

974
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,800
That was a really lucky escape 
for Nick Whale. 

975
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:31,960
There was. 
Oh, 100% yeah. 

976
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:33,320
It could have been so much 
worse. 

977
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:37,680
You know, there was, it was, it 
dumped all his oil and he was, 

978
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:41,080
it was backwards in the, in the,
in the gravel. 

979
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,400
And all of a sudden he sees a 
clank coming towards him. 

980
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,040
And it could have been really, 
really serious and it could have

981
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,440
been a really darker weekend. 
It was. 

982
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:55,720
It was so lucky. 
Moments later the leading pack 

983
00:56:55,720 --> 00:57:00,600
arrived and chaos erupted. 
Rouse had a huge movement on the

984
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:04,320
oil, sliding across the grass 
and kicking up a cloud of dust. 

985
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:08,800
Alan, tucked in right behind 
them, had nowhere to go and 

986
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:13,080
pounced straight into the 
stranded BMW M3, instantly 

987
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:17,600
turning both cars into racks. 
Cleland also slid off and was 

988
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:21,240
set to spear straight into Wales
car, but the contact with Alan 

989
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:25,000
managed to move it just in time,
leaving Cleland to make only a 

990
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:29,000
glance in contact. 
Palmer threaded his way through 

991
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,560
the carnage unscathed, whilst 
Harvey initially thought he had 

992
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:36,600
done the same until Bristow 
arrived on the scene gathering 

993
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:40,600
up his own momentum. 
Gathering up his own moment, 

994
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:43,800
Bristow clipped Harvey and 
tipped the fall into a spin. 

995
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:45,600
Sorry, I've just realised my 
mistake. 

996
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,680
It's the BMW, isn't it? 
Yeah. 

997
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:50,240
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Sorry. 

998
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,480
Gathering up his own moment, 
Bristow clipped Harvey and 

999
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:59,240
tipped the BMW even to a spin. 
Belm completed the quintet in 

1000
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:03,880
the sun trap, just brushing them
as a fishy as he came to arrest.

1001
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,800
With cars scattered everywhere, 
the red flag was shown 

1002
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:14,080
immediately and both the healthy
and the wounded made their way 

1003
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:18,360
back to assemble on the grid. 
Well guys, that was that was a 

1004
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:20,560
pretty big one, I think it's 
fair to say. 

1005
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:23,280
What? 
What did you all make of that 

1006
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:29,880
fairly chaotic incident? 
Well, lucky in a way. 

1007
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:34,680
I mean, as Chris just mentioned 
there, Nick Whale was lucky 

1008
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:36,880
because he could easily have 
been killed. 

1009
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:43,680
And you look at that now and you
think, my gosh, hasn't, hasn't, 

1010
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:45,520
hasn't this hasn't the 
standards. 

1011
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:47,720
Come on. 
Rightly so. 

1012
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:52,280
Because, yeah, that was scary to
watch and makes me wince even 

1013
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:56,520
watching it now, watching it 
back recently to obviously when 

1014
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,520
we were when we knew we were 
doing this episode, in this 

1015
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:03,760
meeting, Yeah, it made me wince.
At the time, I didn't, I didn't 

1016
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:07,160
like it. 
So yeah, that that was lucky. 

1017
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:13,160
Alan was very unlucky, but then 
lucky in many other ways because

1018
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,320
he wasn't seriously injured. 
And as we've already discussed 

1019
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:18,840
at the top of the show, his 
neck. 

1020
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:21,600
I, I mean, just. 
Yeah. 

1021
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:24,160
For anyone who hasn't seen it, 
try and have a look. 

1022
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:29,680
It's there's an awful incident. 
Yeah, you feel for Nick Whale, 

1023
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:34,440
who's, well, Nick Whales car was
written off, destroyed, as was 

1024
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:38,800
Alan's Cavalier. 
The rest got away with it a 

1025
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,600
little bit because there was 
only slight contact. 

1026
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:54,320
So lucky in many ways, but also 
big, big and a big example of 

1027
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,440
what motorsport needed to do on 
the safety front. 

1028
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:04,280
When you compare it to now, you 
know, the, the, the, yeah. 

1029
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:06,920
And, and, and I know, we'll, I 
know we'll get to it at one 

1030
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:08,800
point. 
But Jeff Allen was very, very 

1031
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,400
angry. 
Yeah, and you say Alan's car was

1032
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:16,080
a write off, but they actually 
did get it back on the track and

1033
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,800
he drove it back to the pits, 
did he? 

1034
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:21,280
Yeah, I've got again, I've got 
pictures of it. 

1035
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:24,240
The front is completely gone, 
the back is gone. 

1036
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:28,440
But he got out of that gravel 
trap and the car was still able 

1037
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:32,360
to drive, smoke pouring off it. 
And then clearly they tried to 

1038
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,840
get it back to the back to the 
pits to try and start the the 

1039
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:38,320
restart. 
Yeah, which is quite, quite 

1040
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,640
incredible. 
I think as well in the odour was

1041
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:44,160
very lucky as well. 
He came through a pile of the 

1042
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:48,000
the gravel smoke in the dust, 
and he just about missed 

1043
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,160
everything. 
So he could have also had a big 

1044
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:51,240
one. 
Yeah. 

1045
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:54,920
But yeah, I, I again, I think 
you know that that view of Nick 

1046
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,360
Wells stood in the gravel with 
it was. 

1047
01:00:58,400 --> 01:00:59,960
Yeah. 
It was scary to see it. 

1048
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:01,720
It could have. 
Been a whole lot. 

1049
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:02,400
Worse. 
Yeah. 

1050
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:04,160
It does. 
It makes you really you know, if

1051
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:08,280
you if you think that those cars
are coming up full tilt up the 

1052
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:12,840
hill towards Maclean's and you 
know it it you know, the heads 

1053
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,880
stand up on back of my neck now 
just saying what what might have

1054
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,200
been. 
And like you said, how the you 

1055
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:22,920
know, the hands device now that 
all drivers where would would 

1056
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:28,160
certainly prevent another 
incident like Jeff experience, 

1057
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:31,040
because it was really it was it 
what wasn't pleasant viewing. 

1058
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:34,040
It could have, it could have 
been, you know, luckily touched 

1059
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:39,440
with everyone walks away, but it
was the main talking point from 

1060
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,000
the weekend and from the racing 
certainly. 

1061
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:46,000
Yeah, I was surprised because 
when Alan was offered the the 

1062
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:50,560
neck brace by the by the first 
aid, the the lady, and then when

1063
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,280
he's like, no, you're OK, I'm 
thinking. 

1064
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:54,880
Yeah, he's. 
He would. 

1065
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:57,280
He would have been made to wear 
it, now, wouldn't he? 

1066
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:57,760
Oh. 
Yeah. 

1067
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:59,400
It would be on a on a stretcher 
board, yeah. 

1068
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,960
Yeah, You know, there's no way 
he would be driving that car 

1069
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:04,600
back to the pits. 
That's wild. 

1070
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:06,280
I didn't know that. 
That's amazing. 

1071
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:11,040
Yeah, and I think he's quite 
adamant, isn't he, at the time? 

1072
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,160
Do you want a, do you want a 
neck brace? 

1073
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:14,880
Are you sure? 
And he's like, no, Yeah. 

1074
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:16,680
And you know, he's standing 
there talking, you know, lucky 

1075
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:20,800
to talk with John, you know, 
Jeff and John and all those 

1076
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:23,040
races are, you know, old school 
races, aren't they? 

1077
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:28,280
So they're they're they're 
they're well built people. 

1078
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,160
Yeah. 
And thank God for that. 

1079
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,000
Thankfully nobody had been 
seriously hurt. 

1080
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:40,720
Alan escaped with whiplash along
with a collection of cuts and 

1081
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:43,520
bruises and was seen back in the
paddock. 

1082
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:48,360
They far from happy, having only
seen a stationary yellow flag 

1083
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:52,240
and a stationary oil flag before
arriving at the scene. 

1084
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:56,240
Christian, you can have pretty 
understandable anger from Alan 

1085
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,000
there and what was quite a 
dangerous situation, as we've 

1086
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,240
already mentioned. 
Oh, absolutely, 100%. 

1087
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:09,760
The adrenaline's flowing, Jeff, 
you know, has been in the centre

1088
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:14,520
of a massive accident. 
We all know Marshalls are the 

1089
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:18,640
young sung heroes to the sport 
and and safety's moved on 

1090
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:22,600
amazingly well. 
But one, one single stationary 

1091
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:26,880
yellow flag and you've got the 
horde coming up towards them. 

1092
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:29,960
They had no chance you know, and
it could have been worse. 

1093
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:32,480
Thankfully now it's just a 
talking point. 

1094
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,960
We can look back on it and 
think, you know, just sweep up 

1095
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:37,200
the two cars, put them in the 
bin. 

1096
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:40,840
But, you know, Jeff had a right 
to be really, really angry 

1097
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:42,040
because it could have been 
worse. 

1098
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:45,640
And there was, you know, bits of
metal work flying everywhere. 

1099
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:48,760
So, yeah, I'm on Jeff's side 
here. 

1100
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:52,080
But, you know, the we can look 
back and in hindsight now and 

1101
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:54,360
just say what what might have 
been and what could have done. 

1102
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:57,920
Yeah. 
Just thankfully, no one was was 

1103
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:00,200
seriously injured. 
And they all live to fight 

1104
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:02,960
another day. 
Yeah, these days now, a safety 

1105
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:04,600
car would have been thrown 
immediately, wouldn't it? 

1106
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:08,200
And they'd be straight out there
covering it with cement dust or 

1107
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,640
whatever, you know, and trying 
to soak it all up. 

1108
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:15,440
And yeah, I mean, it's, it's 
even towards the end of the era 

1109
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:20,360
that would have happened. 
It was, it was just, I mean, 

1110
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:23,920
you, you watch Grand Prix from 
the time and you know, they were

1111
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,600
cars parked on the side of the 
track that had retired and 

1112
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:30,920
they're just carrying on racing.
So it wasn't, it wasn't just 

1113
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:34,000
British motor sport or, or 
British tracks or Marshalls that

1114
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:36,440
were, it wasn't, it was just the
standard. 

1115
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:39,400
That was just how it was. 
And that's, yeah, that was the 

1116
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,400
policy at the time, wasn't it? 
Was, I don't think it was the 

1117
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:44,480
everyone was doing their best. 
Everyone was doing based on the 

1118
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,320
protocols that were laid down by
the time. 

1119
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:49,960
And I think it was the perfect 
storm of everything coming 

1120
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:53,080
together and, and thankfully 
everyone walks away. 

1121
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:55,160
You know, I think it defines a 
racing incident. 

1122
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:58,960
Yeah, yeah. 
Baird and Belle were both able 

1123
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:02,800
to drive back to the grid, with 
Baird shedding sand from the car

1124
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:05,840
as he returned. 
Hales and Cleland, meanwhile, 

1125
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:09,560
had to be towed back to the 
pits, where their team set about

1126
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:13,200
carrying out enough repairs to 
allow them to take the restart. 

1127
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:17,360
Alex ashamed for the packed 
grandsons that day that so many 

1128
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:20,760
cars were involved in this 
incident and taken out of 

1129
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:25,960
contention. 
Yeah, it was a shame, but as, as

1130
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:28,800
we've already said, there were 
only two cars that were actually

1131
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,880
wrecked and, you know, so 
Cleland was able to make the 

1132
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:37,920
restart, albeit from the pits. 
So was the Hales Mitsubishi. 

1133
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:43,320
So yeah, it was a shame. 
It was a shame that the 

1134
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:49,120
spectacle would have been soured
slightly, but the, the, the, 

1135
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:53,560
the, the day as a, as a, as an 
overall was still a great, great

1136
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:56,320
event and, and, and a great day 
of racing. 

1137
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:58,920
So I don't think they'd have 
been too disappointed. 

1138
01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:03,680
Only 10 cars lined up for the 
release start with Cleland, 

1139
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:06,360
Hails and Forest starting from 
the pit lane. 

1140
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:10,440
Rounds made the best start from 
pole and LED Harvey and Sopra 

1141
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,480
into Redgate. 
It wasn't long though before 

1142
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:16,960
Sopa took second from Harvey, 
who attempted to retake the 

1143
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:20,920
place before they made contact 
with Harvey since spinning down 

1144
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:24,080
the Craners. 
Greg, what do you make of that 

1145
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:27,240
racing incident overall? 
Yeah. 

1146
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:30,880
Again, I think it's, you know, 
Craner Curves 2, two cars going 

1147
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:33,880
for one, one line often. 
There's always going to be one 

1148
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:37,280
that that that gets a bad 
situation from it. 

1149
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:41,000
So I'd say a little bit of a 
racing incident, some robust 

1150
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:42,640
driving maybe. 
Yeah. 

1151
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:46,400
I think one of those inevitable 
things that happens in that area

1152
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:50,360
of the track at Donnington. 
Yeah, you very rarely get 2 cars

1153
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:53,680
alongside each other going down 
the Craners without making any 

1154
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,920
sort of contact. 
So as soon as that happens, 

1155
01:06:56,920 --> 01:07:01,320
normally one of them ends up 
getting fired off one way and. 

1156
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:03,280
And this time it was Tim. 
Yes. 

1157
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:10,000
Shortly after that super slowed 
with an engine problem, the BMW 

1158
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:14,040
man pulling into the pits to 
retire the car with Bell taking 

1159
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:18,440
over second behind rounds. 
McClelland was the next to slow 

1160
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,040
with a puncture causing the 
Vauxhall man to pit. 

1161
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:24,120
Chris. 
This was really becoming a race 

1162
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:28,440
of attrition at this point. 
It was Andy seemed pretty happy 

1163
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:31,040
in the lead and no one he seemed
to want to come second. 

1164
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:34,200
Did they? 
It's like survival of the 

1165
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:37,560
fittest, isn't it? 
It's like people are dropping 

1166
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:41,520
out left, right and centre and 
it's there's collisions. 

1167
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:46,000
There's obviously a mechanical, 
mechanical issues for, for, for 

1168
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,840
drivers and cars. 
And it was just who, who can 

1169
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:52,240
stay on the track long enough. 
And as Andy said at the end of 

1170
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,160
when he was interviewed 
afterwards, he said it was quite

1171
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:57,120
easy in the end because people 
were dropping off left, right 

1172
01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,960
and centre. 
But I'm sure at the time it was 

1173
01:07:59,960 --> 01:08:01,880
quite hard, you know, and they 
were, they were keeping him 

1174
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:04,600
honest. 
But with that it allowed other 

1175
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:10,800
drivers to show some potential. 
So you know, Rob Gravitt came up

1176
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:15,760
to third, although on count, on 
aggregate he finished fourth 

1177
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:17,720
behind Jonathan Palmer. 
It allowed other drivers to 

1178
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:21,840
shine and a bit of the spotlight
which has to be celebrated. 

1179
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:25,840
Yeah, I hate these aggregate 
races that restarted and then 

1180
01:08:26,279 --> 01:08:30,840
they have to mix the results of 
the of the two races it because,

1181
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:34,359
yeah, you're right. 
It was great to see Gravit, as 

1182
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:38,040
Greg said earlier in that in 
that beautiful, beautiful 4th 

1183
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:42,520
Sierra Sapphire, mixing it a bit
further up the front than he was

1184
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:45,359
used to that year. 
I was celebrating. 

1185
01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:47,439
I thought, this is it, We're 
we're at the front now. 

1186
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,600
Yeah, my favourite car. 
This is it. 

1187
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:53,000
We turn the corner. 
Yeah, yeah, it was. 

1188
01:08:53,319 --> 01:08:57,399
It was good to see. 
But sadly, that podium evaded 

1189
01:08:57,399 --> 01:09:01,520
him and the doctor got it on 
this occasion, yes. 

1190
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:06,640
Rounds held on to win with Bound
following home in second nursing

1191
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:10,120
an engine issue after over 
wrapping after missing a gear 

1192
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:13,800
with his damaged gear stick. 
Rob Graphic finished third on 

1193
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:17,160
the road but Jonathan Palmer 
jumped in in the aggregate 

1194
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:20,359
result. 
Overall the double race format 

1195
01:09:20,359 --> 01:09:24,279
was deemed a huge success and 
all the drivers agreed that all 

1196
01:09:24,279 --> 01:09:27,359
the meetings should be a double 
headers for the 1992 

1197
01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:29,920
championship. 
Guys, what did you think of the 

1198
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:33,160
double header events there for 
the fans in the single race 

1199
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:36,960
weekends? 
I was just thinking about how 

1200
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:42,240
many, how in demand the BMW 
parts department was going to be

1201
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:45,479
on Monday morning. 
You know, all the fitly cars 

1202
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:49,160
probably needed a gearbox and or
an engine or two. 

1203
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:52,200
There was obviously Steve Sopers
fuel pump that damaged his 

1204
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:55,320
engine. 
It's like, it's like carnage, 

1205
01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:59,280
yeah. 
Yeah, I liked, I like the double

1206
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,360
headers. 
Obviously as I said earlier, I 

1207
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:05,240
wasn't wasn't aware of the 
championship, but that in in 

1208
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:08,000
1991. 
So I didn't know it at the time 

1209
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:12,680
as this being very much not the 
there's been the exception and 

1210
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:15,480
not the rule. 
Can you imagine going to a 

1211
01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:19,440
touring car meeting now and just
watching one race kick off? 

1212
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:22,640
Yeah, mind you, aren't there 
like 4 this year? 

1213
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:25,560
Isn't that that's too much or a 
qualifying race or something? 

1214
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:28,840
Yeah, one on a Saturday and 
three on the race day, which is 

1215
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:30,440
a lot of the normal thing that 
we're used to now. 

1216
01:10:30,440 --> 01:10:33,160
But I think for for me, the 
double header was great. 

1217
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:35,840
You know, we get we were paying 
the same money to get into the 

1218
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:37,960
circuit, but we were getting to 
see them twice. 

1219
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:39,760
Yes, yeah, this is. 
Fantastic. 

1220
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:44,040
We get to see them race twice. 
I think it was AI think it was a

1221
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:47,600
really brave thing to do it. 
I think it worked really well. 

1222
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:50,960
Clearly the teams had to up 
their game a little bit because 

1223
01:10:51,440 --> 01:10:54,840
you know, just surviving one 
race and waiting three weeks for

1224
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:56,760
the next one that wasn't going 
to play anymore. 

1225
01:10:56,760 --> 01:10:59,840
If you wanted to be successful 
in the championship you needed 

1226
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:03,800
to bring reliable cars and cars 
that could cope with, you know, 

1227
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:07,200
2 frenetic races, as we said, 10
minutes apart. 

1228
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:10,040
So I'm I'm sure the teams had to
step up. 

1229
01:11:10,480 --> 01:11:12,920
So it's interesting that the 
drivers for every race should be

1230
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:16,560
a double header, but it still 
didn't happen in 92 and it took 

1231
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:18,280
a few more seasons to get to 
that point. 

1232
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:21,880
Yeah. 
So in 92 and 93 you had three 

1233
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:28,160
double headers. 94 you had a few
more still weren't all double 

1234
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:31,000
headers. 
It was only 95 where the 

1235
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,480
standard meeting was 2 races 
apart from the Grand Prix 

1236
01:11:34,480 --> 01:11:38,400
support, which was 1. 
So yeah, it took the 

1237
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:43,760
championship a while to turn 
this into the, the norm, but I, 

1238
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:48,640
I'm glad they did because yeah, 
it was, it was clearly a much 

1239
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:52,600
better spectacle for the fans. 
As Greg just said, you, you got 

1240
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:56,120
double the number of races. 
You know, it's a, it's a, it's a

1241
01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:58,760
win, win for, for people going 
to the circuit. 

1242
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:05,000
And yeah, it meant that there 
was more for the teams to do 

1243
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:09,440
because they'd have to, you 
know, these, these cars would 

1244
01:12:09,440 --> 01:12:12,920
have to be prepped within that 
10 minute time. 

1245
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:17,360
I still can't quite believe it 
myself, to be honest. 

1246
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:22,000
It's, I think it's wild. 
But yeah, I can see where the 

1247
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,960
drivers liked it. 
They got to race twice as many 

1248
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:28,640
races. 
So yeah, thumbs up from from 

1249
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:32,200
everyone really. 
And it just, it surprises me 

1250
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:36,840
that it took the championship so
long to to do it permanently. 

1251
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:44,120
So that's it for all it back at 
the first BTCC doubleheader 

1252
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:47,240
meeting at Donington Park in 
1991. 

1253
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:51,000
A big thank you to Greg Denton 
and Chris Phillips for joining 

1254
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:52,800
us today to look back at this 
race. 

1255
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:56,320
It's been fantastic to hear 
their memories and insights. 

1256
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,720
We really hope we'll see them 
both back on Stories from Super 

1257
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:04,200
Touring again very soon, guys. 
Yeah, again, thanks for inviting

1258
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:06,400
us. 
I absolutely love doing these 

1259
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:08,680
episodes. 
It's great to reminisce. 

1260
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:12,720
And yeah, I think again, another
pivotal moment in the British 

1261
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:16,120
Touring Car Championship history
and certainly first Super 

1262
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:17,600
Touring with our first double 
header. 

1263
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:20,480
Yeah, I loved every I've loved 
every second. 

1264
01:13:20,480 --> 01:13:23,280
It was like I said earlier, it 
was a golden era and and the 

1265
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:27,440
opportunity to go back and 
rewatch the races, reread the 

1266
01:13:27,440 --> 01:13:32,320
reviews and what happened and 
the and the pit lane goings on 

1267
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:37,600
and and just reminisce and and 
go back a trip trip down memory.

1268
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:39,360
It's been brilliant. 
So thanks very much for having 

1269
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:41,440
me on and I've I've loved every 
second. 

1270
01:13:41,440 --> 01:13:44,680
Oh. 
Thanks as always goes to you for

1271
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:47,160
listening. 
If you enjoyed today's episode, 

1272
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:51,040
please do leave us a review, 
give us a five star rating and 

1273
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:53,920
subscribe to the podcast on your
app of choice. 

1274
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:57,800
It really does help more touring
car fans discover the show. 

1275
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:02,280
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Touring content, you can also 

1276
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:05,880
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1277
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:09,520
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1278
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:13,280
You can find all the details in 
the episode description. 

1279
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:16,360
And of course, we'd love to hear
from you. 

1280
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:20,000
If you have a comment about 
today's episode, the podcast in 

1281
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:23,520
general, or a question or 
suggestion for a future show, 

1282
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:29,440
just drop us an e-mail at pod at
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1283
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:33,480
Until next time, thanks for 
listening, and we'll see you 

1284
01:14:33,480 --> 01:14:36,080
next week on Stories from Super 
Touring.