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Stories from Super Touring. 
It was an unusually quiet start 

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to the British Touring Car 
Championship in 1995, with the 

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usual glut of overtaking and 
close port racing crucially 

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missing from the Donington Park 
season opener. 

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Was it down to the new 
aerodynamic regulations or was 

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it season opening nerves? 
Welcome to the latest episode of

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Stories from Super Touring. 
I'm Levi Riley. 

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And to help us look back at the 
opening race of the 1995 BTCC 

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season is touring car journalist
Andrew Charmaine. 

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Andrew, welcome to your first 
appearance of series five of the

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pod. 
How are you this evening? 

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Hello to you 2. 
I'm OK working far too hard for 

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a person of my age but 
struggling on these are going 

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but apart from that, yeah not so
bad. 

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All good. 
Living a drain, then, Andrew? 

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Yeah. 
Absolutely. 

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Just back from a pilgrimage to 
the Lake District and see Donald

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Campbell's Bluebirds, and that 
was quite good. 

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We'll stick with you first for 
our usual opening question. 

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What first comes to your mind 
when you think about the season 

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opening race of 1995? 
Well, the memories for me are 

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very much split. 
If you're looking from a racing 

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point of view, there was a bit 
of a sense of doom and gloom 

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because the arrival of 
aerodynamics into the BTCC 

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seemed to create processional 
racing, as we'll discuss 

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somewhat more deeply a little 
while. 

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But for me, the overwhelming 
memory was this was my first 

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meeting as the editor of a 
touring car magazine. 

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Again, as we'll discuss shortly,
the first issue of Super Touring

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magazine and published just a 
few days before the meeting. 

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And I spent most of the weekend 
getting some very positive 

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reviews. 
So for me, this was one very 

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good meeting. 
Lovely. 

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I mean, it's, I mean as, as you 
say, we'll touch on it and the 

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start of that new very 
specialist magazine that I think

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a lot of people look back on 
fondly when we speak to people 

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and stuff like Super Touring 
Power as well. 

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Should it you get me talking 
about it, you will never get. 

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Adam coming to you next. 
What jumps into your mind when 

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you think about this race? 
Lots, lots of key moments and 

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there was that many. 
I had to write them all down. 

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So I don't know if I'm allowed 
to say all of these. 

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We're going to discuss most of 
them, but I think Thompson as 

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his first works opportunity 
alongside Cleland, which was 

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which was good. 
Honda, again, we'll go into it, 

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the shape of the Volvo going 
from an estate to a saloon. 

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But I think the biggest one, 
well, there's another one 

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actually Will Hoy with these, 
with these attempts all going 

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wrong with Bailey. 
But I think the biggest one and 

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probably the most memorable one 
when you look back at some 

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footage, because they've used 
this clip quite a lot, was Derek

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Warwick going off across, 
skipping across the gravel and 

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that, you know, that random 
stone that just chipped the lens

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of the camera. 
And then Murray said he's broken

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our camera lens. 6 grand, 
please, Derek that I think 

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that's actually, I just did that
particular footage that I've 

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seen that time and time again in
different like reviews, BTCC 

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reviews and DVDs and stuff. 
So it's quite an iconic piece 

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that they are from a going 
across the gravel. 

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But yes, lots and lots within 
that and obviously we're going 

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to be discussing most of that. 
You know it's a bad weekend when

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even when you have an accident, 
a stone pops up into the camera,

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ensuring that they'll always 
show you the footage 

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forevermore, isn't it? 
It's not a good. 

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Weekend, absolutely. 
But it's just Murray's voice, 

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like the way he says that he's 
broken out, like it's his, like 

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he took it really because he's 
broken out. 

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Camera lens. 
That'll be 6 grand, please, 

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Derek. 
Like he just like he was livid. 

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But yeah, I've never seen it 
ever happen in any motors series

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of a camera lens. 
You know, should watching it 

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being chipped at the time and 
I'm sure it did cost probably 

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more than six grand. 
But yeah, it's quite a memorable

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1. 
Finally coming to you Al. 

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What's your memories of this 
season opener? 

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Honestly, there's been quite a 
debate about it recently 

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actually, because one of our 
contributors did a, did a piece 

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for the blog where it was arrow 
versus no arrow. 

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And for me, the outstanding 
memory is seeing the cars with 

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these new front and rear arrow 
packages. 

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I'm just thinking how good they 
looked. 

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They looked fantastic. 
But they did transform them, 

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yeah. 
They look serious, bits of kit 

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with the front and rear wings. 
It was as if the championship 

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had stepped up a level through, 
you know it. 

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It'd grown up a little bit, you 
know, I don't know. 

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As always, we've asked our 
faithful listeners what they 

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thought of this race meeting 
through our social media 

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channels and they've come up 
with the following. 

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Maybe you guys at home also 
listening have similar memories.

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Paul Young said that he was 
there and that his memory is 

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meeting Sir Jack Brabham in the 
paddock and of course the Jack 

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was his son. 
David was making his BTCC debut 

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that weekend for BMW in a 
refreshed liner. 

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Michael Hedstrom. 
He said that he remembers, as 

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Alex does, thinking how could 
the full aero packages looked on

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the car and particularly how 
boxy the Cavalier looked 

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compared to some of its 
competitors, which I'm guessing 

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probably a bit to do with car 
shape with some of them. 

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It's just the the age of the 
car. 

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Yeah, the, you know, the 
Cavalier was, although the 

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Vectra looked very similar to 
the. 

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Cavalier. 
In all honestly, it's a bit 

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more. 
Curvy. 

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But yeah, it was certainly apart
from the Volvo. 

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I think that might be more foxy,
yeah. 

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Adam Little remembers just how 
quick Ricard Rydell was in 

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qualifying and then going on to 
take his first win in the series

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in the second race, whilst 
Andrew Gray remembers that he 

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was wondering after the race how
many points Rydell would win the

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title by which I'm sure we can 
maybe get on to that element of 

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how Ricard put on a strong case 
for a title challenge that 

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weekend. 
Matt Walker says he remembers 

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being at the race and the 
organizers holding a firework 

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display in the bright sunshine 
Of Montreal. 

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Any of you that were there also 
remember this? 

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He says that they couldn't see a
thing. 

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I'd forgotten that until I read 
Matt's comment. 

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He says that they couldn't see a
thing and everyone was just 

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looking around at each other 
with random explosions going on.

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I couldn't imagine how bizarre 
that must have been. 

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Scott Woodwith, who's been on 
the pod before, remembers 

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Thompson's impressive. 
Davy in the Cavalier in 

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particular, has moved past two 
cars in one corner, which will 

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definitely touch on that move. 
Nick Talon, meanwhile, says one 

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word. 
Boring. 

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Harsh, harsh Nick. 
Whilst Adam Pipes remembers 

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being disappointed that Volvo 
had decided to go with the 850 

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saloon for 95 rather than 
continue with the estate model 

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they'd used the previous year. 
I mean, that was a no brainer, 

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I'm afraid before the the aero, 
the aero regulations just it's 

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just so basically you couldn't 
have the rear wing higher than 

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the line of the the roof. 
So basically would mean if Volvo

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were to run the 850 estate they 
wouldn't be able to have a rear 

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rear wing on the car. 
There was one car running 

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without Arrow at this race and 
it's an interesting comparison. 

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And it was Hamish Irvine who had
literally just bought his 

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Peugeot 405, which I think 
Andrew might correct me if I'm 

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wrong. 
I think it was Thompson's from 

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94. 
It was, yeah. 

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And I have a very, very funny 
story to tell about H Irvine, if

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we get time. 
We will have time I'm sure and 

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he qualified. 
I think I looked earlier it was 

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9 seconds slower than the pole 
position time. 

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Now I'm not saying that's all 
car, but I'm sure it 

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contributed. 
So there's a, there's a sort of 

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an idea of how much quicker the 
aero made the cars and why Volvo

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were, you know, they just 
couldn't have worked with the 

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estate. 
If they ever planned to, and 

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I've never been convinced they 
did, I've always believed that 

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they always intended to go with 
the salooning year too. 

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I'll never forget. 
I'll never, I'll never stop 

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laughing at the faces that David
Leslie and Tim Harvey pulled at 

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the media at the medium scrum 
when they when they wheel out 

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excuse. 
Me, Sir, I was there and it was.

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Not a scrum, no. 
No, it was not. 

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It was a very nice tent at 
Donnington. 

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We were all very well behaved in
those days. 

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Paul Devanish came up with a 
very popular memory which we've 

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already touched on. 
He's broken our camera lens, 

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which of course Murray Walker's 
comments after Derek Warwick 

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ended up in the title in the 
first race. 

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This was also remembered by a 
few others. 

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Unsurprisingly, Alex Bourne, Ben
Keaton, Stephen Dawson and 

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Stuart Coulter also got in touch
to mention that Wes Shepherd 

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remembers thinking that they've 
gone too far with that in the 

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Arrow in For 95, whilst Tim 
Davies remembers thinking that 

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the racing was a bit of a 
disappointment, but the cars did

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look like real beasts. 
And finally, Philip W remembers 

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thinking that Volvo were real 
title contenders with TW Rs 

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expertise behind them. 
Heading into the weekend it was 

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Ford that held the psychological
advantage with the Blue Oval 

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posting the fastest testing time
in the second Super Test at 

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Bramas Hatch the week before. 
Seven of the 9 manufacturers 

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were present with Ford joined by
the likes of Vauxhall, Volvo, 

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Alfa Romeo, Peugeot, Toyota and 
the newbies Honda. 

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Raddesich posted a 46.25 on the 
indie Circuit brands, but 

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Vauxhall also looked strong with
James Thompson sitting on top of

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the timing charts for most of 
the day before being pipped. 

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Andrew, was it fair to say that 
nobody really knew what the 

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pecking order of the grid would 
be heading into the season after

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those tests? 
Absolutely, because obviously 

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we'd had Alpha's domination 
through the first half of 94 

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basically because of its wings 
and splitters, which forced the 

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FIA into a quick solution for 
the rest of 94. 

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And over the winter they had 
time to write a proper set of 

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regulations which completely 
changed every single car. 

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So going into the new season we 
didn't know who'd got it right, 

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who'd got it wrong. 
And Despite that test at brands 

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a week before, there hadn't been
that much testing. 

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And the big pre race test on the
Tuesday before, which should 

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have given us some indication, 
we spent the whole day sitting 

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in Donnington's Cafe watching 
the snowfall outside. 

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So that was a very wasted trip 
from Kent. 

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So yeah, we, we, we didn't 
really know. 

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And of course there were plenty 
of other curveballs. 

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We've already mentioned that 
Williams was the running the 

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Renault team, Williams Formula 
One, and it seemed to be very 

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00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,120
late getting his cars built. 
Did that mean they weren't going

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to be very fast? 
Well, we soon got proved 

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differently on that one. 
The other F1 team which Volvo 

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was because Tom Walkinshaw at 
the time was Ligier and went on 

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to be Arrows. 
They had gone to a proper car 

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after after the estate. 
Alfa Romeo was no longer proper 

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00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:04,600
Italian team, it was a British 
one because it was being run by 

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protride. 
So even before you looked at 

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drivers that had gone from here.
And there, you know, there was a

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whole lot to get one's head 
round. 

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00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,240
One man who was on a very rocky 
learning curve was former Grand 

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Prix driver Derek Warwick. 
He was replacing graining 

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champion Gabriel Tarquini. 
Alfa Romeo Warwick was involved 

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00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,400
in a 100 mile an hour crash at 
Bransach, leaving the track at 

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00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,880
the McLaren right-hander, 
hitting a tire wall and flying 

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00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,600
across the exit of the GP loop, 
coming to a rest at the edge of 

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the circuit. 
Warwick was shaken but unhurt 

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and was able to resume testing 
the following day. 

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I was just finishing a lap, 
decided to come in and went to 

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00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,800
brake but my foot slipped on the
throttle. 

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00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,160
I jumped back on the brakes and 
locked the thing up, killing the

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00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,280
engine and went straight off. 
I've been looking around for an 

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00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:59,200
excuse but can't find one. 
It was totally my fault Adam. 

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00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,760
It's a subject we've touched on 
a lot in the past on the 

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podcast. 
The jump from a front wheel 

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00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,280
drive or into a front wheel 
drive touring car rather. 

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00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,160
It's quite a change from the 
rear wheel drive F1 cars that 

226
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:14,840
Derek Warwick would have been 
used to. 

227
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,080
Yeah, but the clutch, the brake,
and I thought we're all in the 

228
00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,600
same places, aren't they? 
That's very tricky. 

229
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,640
I like Derek, I really do a lot 
as a person. 

230
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,840
When he speaks, he speaks very 
well and I've been a fan of his.

231
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:34,280
But that aside, a car's a car. 
Yes. 

232
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,880
It's but he's yeah, but he's 
been used like 1000 horsepower 

233
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,840
turbo Formula One cars. 
But you've come into this, but 

234
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,960
other drivers have also made the
change from Formula One or 

235
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:49,160
single seeds or a few thousand 
F3 and gone into, you know, into

236
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,800
into that. 
I mean Rydell, look at Rydell. 

237
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:54,360
He came in and won the 
championship. 

238
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,120
You know, you say he wasn't he 
didn't have a nightmare coming 

239
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,920
into touring cars. 
Yes, it's front wheel drive, but

240
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:03,840
I think he just had an absolute 
mare. 

241
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,320
But look at Johnny Cicato. 
You want to talk about 

242
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,600
comparisons. 
He's a two time bike world 

243
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,440
champion and he's coming and 
he's waiting for BMW doing a 

244
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,640
better job than what Derrick did
motorcycles. 

245
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,720
I'm not, I'm not having the 
whole, I can't, I can't, I'm 

246
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,240
sorry. 
And I'm sure the opinion will be

247
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,760
to divide you. 
But if you're a racing driver, 

248
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:25,640
you can drive anything fast more
you know. 

249
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,520
Yeah, Warwick never really 
settled in touring cars. 

250
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,240
He never, he never. 
He just never. 

251
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,040
He just struggled like they're 
like he's looking for excuses 

252
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:34,440
and, you know, he's open and 
honest about that. 

253
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:35,920
He's looking for excuse, but I 
can't find one. 

254
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,560
You know, you can't. 
Then obviously he went off at, 

255
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,080
you know, Donnington. 
I think he went off again in the

256
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:46,520
second race as well, you know, 
on his own and he just had the 

257
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,040
mayor. 
And I think from what he's said 

258
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,400
to you before, Alex, he didn't 
have any fond memories of 

259
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,120
touring cars in any way, shape 
or form. 

260
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,600
It's one he'd rather forget 
really. 

261
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,400
And but I just think he just, he
just never jailed at all. 

262
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:00,080
It was just an absolute 
nightmare for him. 

263
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,360
You have to remember though that
Simone was not getting the 

264
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,800
results he was getting the 
previous season either, so it 

265
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,880
was a lot to do with the car. 
One sad story in the run up to 

266
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,200
the 1995 season was the tragic 
death of Greg Hansford in the 

267
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,440
opening rounds of the 1995 
Australian Super Touring 

268
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,600
Championship at Phillip Island. 
Hansford's Mondeo was among the 

269
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,560
lead in pack of cars on the 
second lap of the opening race 

270
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,400
when the accident occurred. 
The cars entered the southern 

271
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,120
loop section of the circuit when
Hansford appeared to lose 

272
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,560
control of his car, which veered
off the track and hit a tyre 

273
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,560
barrier. 
The Mundare raised a large cloud

274
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,000
of dust as it slid off, 
obscuring the vision of the 

275
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,720
drivers following behind. 
The Ford then rebounded back 

276
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,400
onto the circuit, directly into 
the path of the Peugeot four O 5

277
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,680
of the 26 year old privateer 
Mark Addison, who collided with 

278
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:56,000
the driver's door of Hansford's 
car at approximately 125 miles 

279
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,680
an hour. 
Hansford was killed almost 

280
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:03,080
instantly. 
Alex A very stark reminder of 

281
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,520
the dangers of racing there in 
Australia at the start of the 

282
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,800
season, wasn't it? 
Yeah, it's an awful, awful 

283
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:15,560
accident and thankfully there's 
not much footage of it on online

284
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,880
or to see it because quite 
frankly, I don't think it's 

285
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:23,040
something I'd want to see. 
But this year would be a sad 

286
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,720
year for Super Touring because 
obviously this sort of accident 

287
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,600
happened again in September with
with the tragic death of Keith 

288
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:36,120
O'door. 
So yeah, it was just a stark 

289
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,520
reminder and it's awful. 
But Greg Hansford, one of the 

290
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,880
most we talk about motorcycle 
going into from motorcycle, the 

291
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:45,560
touring car, he was someone who 
did that. 

292
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:50,800
He was a motorcycle superstar 
and then was racing in a in the 

293
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,840
growing Super Touring 
Championship in Australia that 

294
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:55,160
was getting quite big at this 
point. 

295
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,280
I think it's just a sharp 
reminder, isn't it? 

296
00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,360
How fast? 
Things can change quickly. 

297
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,520
Blink of an eye. 
In the corner to. 95% of those 

298
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,480
accidents, he goes into the tire
wall and stays off the edge of 

299
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,720
the circuit and nothing happens.
It just happens that the angle 

300
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,400
he went in at meant that he 
bounced straight back into the 

301
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,520
track and the dust cloud meant 
that nobody could see. 

302
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,800
And the, the, the bad luck that 
Mark Adderton was there. 

303
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,319
And, you know, you feel sorry 
for for Mark Adderton to in 

304
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:27,200
these this situation, you know, 
it's, it's just a, yeah, tragic,

305
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,160
tragic story. 
And it really was a yeah, a 

306
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:36,040
stark reminder that motorsport 
is never, ever fully safe. 

307
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,760
Kefo Door was a columnist 
because he'd gone off to 

308
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,040
Germany, because he'd been in 
the British series before, and 

309
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,000
I'd suddenly asked as a 
columnist, report writing 

310
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:52,360
columns for me on the SDW cap 
and on the in the week before 

311
00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:55,680
the Arvest meeting he sent me 
his ladies column. 

312
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,600
He rang me from the departure 
down to the airport to make sure

313
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,240
I'd got it. 
He went off to Arvis, I went off

314
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,920
to Alton Park. 
That year Alfa had a little 

315
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,000
press bus which we used to work 
in because it was much nicer 

316
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,120
than the press offices, and I 
sat in the little press bus at 

317
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:14,480
Alton Park and watched Keith win
the first race at Arvis and then

318
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,040
get killed in the second. 
Yeah, it was his first win as 

319
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:18,640
well. 
That was, wasn't it in the in 

320
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,560
the in the SCW. 
Exactly the same sort of 

321
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,920
accident bounced out of the wall
straight into the path of Frank 

322
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:25,440
Wheeler. 
Yeah. 

323
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,000
Yeah, just just awful and. 
Not a good year. 

324
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:31,560
It's just the driver's door, 
isn't it? 

325
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,880
That's the issue. 
Calvin Burt, Alton Park. 

326
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:39,600
I thought that that when I saw 
that, I thought this is not good

327
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,040
for him. 
Very lucky it was not the 

328
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:42,880
driver's side, but very. 
Lucky. 

329
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,200
But how lucky was, how lucky it 
was here, you know? 

330
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,560
Super Touring was becoming such 
a major category in world 

331
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,440
motorsport that it spawned its 
first dedicated magazine at the 

332
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,600
start of the 1995 season. 
Super Touring magazine launched 

333
00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:01,120
its first issue in March of 1995
with none other than Andrew 

334
00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:03,120
Charming at the helm. 
Andrew. 

335
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:07,040
It must have been a very 
extremely busy start 1995 I can 

336
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,480
imagine. 
What gave you the idea to start 

337
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,680
the magazine and how was the 
process of setting that magazine

338
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,000
up in the early part of the 
year? 

339
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,960
Yeah, you have to stop me. 
I'll tell you. 

340
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:25,040
I warned you. 
It started when I joined Fast 

341
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,920
Car magazine as deputy editor in
1991 because Fast Car did a lot 

342
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:35,520
with BTCC drivers. 
The likes of Wilhoi Track tested

343
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,840
readers cars for features and 
they also had a column each 

344
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,280
month that was supposedly 
written by a touring car driver,

345
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:46,120
but it was actually a case of us
interviewing said driver and 

346
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,040
then goes writing the column. 
So I got to know a lot of the 

347
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,800
touring car drivers which 
started dragging me away from 

348
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,880
Thunder salons that I was 
working at the time towards 

349
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,280
touring cars. 
And they won the magazine's 

350
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,200
regular Snappers, who was 
actually a freelance motorsport 

351
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:07,040
photographer, to F1 standard. 
He got a gig with this rather 

352
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:11,120
low read magazine called 
International Motor Racing and 

353
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:13,720
he got me a gig there doing BTCC
Reports. 

354
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,600
So from 93 I was in the paddock 
and I knew this magazine wasn't 

355
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,800
going to last that long. 
But I started to have my own 

356
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,840
ideas and back in the 1980s 
there'd been a magazine called 

357
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:29,040
Grand Prix International which 
was published after each Grand 

358
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:30,600
Prix and it was an amazing 
thing. 

359
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,840
It was full colour and it told 
the whole story. 

360
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:39,240
It ordered from each meeting, 
all the technical stuff, the 

361
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,800
drivers, the atmosphere, 
brilliant photos. 

362
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,000
It's something, it was like 
being there but not being there.

363
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,560
And I thought this magazine was 
brilliant and I suddenly thought

364
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,000
I wonder if we could do this 
from the BTCC because it was 

365
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,920
growing so fast. 
So I took the idea to my 

366
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,600
publisher at Fast Car, and to my
surprise, he ran with it. 

367
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,920
By the end of 94, we had the 
support of Toker. 

368
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:04,840
I would never forget sitting in 
the Toker bus at the 94 season 

369
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,840
finale waiting to show Alan Gow 
our first trial layouts to see 

370
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,880
what you thought of them. 
Yeah, that was quite a scary 

371
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,800
time. 
And we went to the winter 

372
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,480
Motorsports shows and we had a 
Rouse Mondeo on our stand. 

373
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,720
I mean, launched the first issue
just before Donnington and I 

374
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,480
arrived at the circuit for the 
first meeting having just 

375
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,200
received the facts from Alan 
Gao, saying how happy he was 

376
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,600
with the magazine. 
And once at the track, one of 

377
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,000
the most respected and my fellow
Germans, Germans, he came up to 

378
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,880
me and he said, to be honest, 
Andrew, we didn't expect it to 

379
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,720
be that good. 
So I didn't really care what the

380
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,400
racing was like at Donnington. 
I was living the dream, you 

381
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,960
know, there had these 
circumstances conspired to make 

382
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,640
95 the only year of Super 
Touring magazine, which 

383
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,360
practices the story for another 
time. 

384
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,000
But Donnington kicked off what 
proved to be the most memorable 

385
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,200
year of my entire career, right 
to today. 

386
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,760
So yeah, it was it was crazy 
times. 

387
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,000
Williams Touring Car Engineering
were about to make their BTCC 

388
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,280
debut at Donnington, having 
struck a deal to run the Renault

389
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,800
British Touring Car team in 
September of 1994. 

390
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,360
Previewing the 95 season, Frank 
Williams told the BBC it was 

391
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:23,040
obvious over the past few 
seasons that the series was 

392
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,680
getting more competitive, more 
popular and more closely 

393
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,400
followed by viewers on 
television. 

394
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,200
So I said to Patrick that it 
would do Williams a lot of good 

395
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,840
to be involved in the 
championship. 

396
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,080
Due to the size and the 
international nature of Super 

397
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,640
Touring Cars. 
We are always looking to 

398
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,520
increase our links with Renault 
too. 

399
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,400
Adam, the leading Grand Prix 
team of the era, the dominant 

400
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,080
Grand Prix team in the era, I 
think a lot of people would say 

401
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:54,440
joining the ranks of the BTCC. 
It's a fairly clear sign of just

402
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,880
how big the series and the Super
Torah formula was getting, isn't

403
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,120
it? 
Yeah, I believe this was massive

404
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:01,880
news. 
You know, back then it was huge 

405
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,920
news and I think just proved the
popularity of the championship. 

406
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,800
And this mood would only be a 
positive for Alan Gau 

407
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,840
particularly, and also the 
future of touring cars, BTCC, 

408
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,720
because to see a turn you have 
to, you know, it's easy to 

409
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,360
forget, but you've got to 
remember back then Renault and 

410
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:20,640
Williams were a dominant force 
in the 90s, weren't they? 

411
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:25,040
They were what Red Bull have 
done recently for people that 

412
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:26,760
didn't know Formula One back 
then. 

413
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,440
Yeah, they were the Creme de la 
Creme, you know, they were 

414
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,720
absolutely at their peak. 
So for them to come into the 

415
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,880
touring car championship with 
Renault, again, massive partners

416
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,320
to Williams was huge news was I 
think again, that that brought 

417
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,120
more fans probably to the TV to 
start watching touring cars that

418
00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:49,400
were Williams and Renault fans, 
you know, from the single seater

419
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,320
side of it, to then know that 
they're coming into the touring 

420
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,320
cars. 
And after the Tvi imagine TV 

421
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,680
ratings went up as well, you 
know, I think it was it was just

422
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,040
huge. 
It was huge and easy to forget 

423
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,760
really. 
But you know, they to come in in

424
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,880
the 90s, you know, that was a 
big that'd be like Red Bull 

425
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,960
coming into into touring cars 
now on McLaren. 

426
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,680
You know it it. 
That's how big he was. 

427
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,160
And what added to it was the 
fact that Williams didn't just 

428
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,000
go and set up a satellite team 
and get a few people in to run 

429
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,760
it. 
Because we've already mentioned 

430
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,800
that Patrick Head was on the pit
wall, the team manager, and the 

431
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,640
team was Ian Harrison, who 
obviously would like to go on to

432
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:29,040
run AAA very successfully, be 
involved with Tour of Cars for 

433
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,520
many, many years. 
But a year earlier he had been 

434
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,760
running the Williams F1 team. 
Yeah. 

435
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,480
Yeah. 
He was the guy in the pits at 

436
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,560
Immerland when that terrible 
weekend happened. 

437
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,840
Yeah. 
And here he was, you know, so 

438
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,840
they literally put their best 
guys into this team. 

439
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,440
Another debutante in the BTCC 
for 1995 was Japanese 

440
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,320
manufacturer Honda, who would be
entering for the first time with

441
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:57,920
MSD, operating 2 Honda Accords 
for David Leslie and James K, as

442
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,320
well as building other cars to 
be raced in Europe. 

443
00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:04,480
Alex Was it only a matter of 
time before Honda also got 

444
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,360
involved in racing touring cars?
Absolutely. 

445
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:14,200
I mean, at this point in the 
era, anyone that had a four door

446
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,880
saloon in the mold of Mondeo 
Cavalier. 

447
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,520
So with Honda, it was the 
Accord. 

448
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,840
At some point they would be 
linked with entering the series 

449
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,280
or entering touring cars in a in
a in a different country. 

450
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,760
The Honda. 
In fact, I've read in, in 

451
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,320
research in this read a 
wonderful article that was in 

452
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,240
Andrew's Super Tory magazine, 
actually the first edition and 

453
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:45,320
it's it looked back at Honda's 
entry into touring cars and it 

454
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,600
was particularly impressive the 
amount of work that had gone 

455
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:53,840
into it from Ian Gather 1994. 
They made the decision and they 

456
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:58,400
awarded MSD the contract to 
build, I think it was 8 Accords,

457
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:05,160
2 for Britain, 2 for Germany, 
one for Belgium and a couple of 

458
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,640
spares if I'm right in thinking.
And that was a real commitment. 

459
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,000
And it was also very impressive 
that they, I always remember 

460
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,160
David Leslie pointing this out 
that they were the only team at 

461
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,120
the pre season tests to have 
both cars out. 

462
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,800
Everyone else was sharing a car 
and they had a car reach for for

463
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,680
James K and David Leslie. 
And I remember him being very 

464
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,760
proud of that. 
But yeah, Honda's a massive 

465
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,800
manufacturer that entered 
touring cars and didn't really 

466
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,960
leave it until very recently. 
You know, only, only in 2020 did

467
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,440
they leave the BTCC as a, as a 
sort of manufacturer backed 

468
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,120
effort with dynamics. 
And it was only one year where 

469
00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:49,200
they, they sort of jumped out 
after Super Touring. 

470
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,360
They didn't go into 2001. 
And then they came back with 

471
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:57,640
Arena in O2, didn't they? 
So yeah, that that all stems 

472
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,840
from the first programme back in
95. 

473
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,440
Interesting that it was a rally 
or a team known for the rally 

474
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:10,960
and exploits that was given the 
task of building the touring 

475
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,520
cars. 
But yeah, it was, it was only a 

476
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,520
matter of time. 
There was a very, there were 

477
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,640
very few manufacturers in that 
era that didn't actually enter. 

478
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,600
There was always rumours of 
Rover, there was always rumours 

479
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,400
of VW, but neither of those 
ever. 

480
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:27,840
Dayu. 
Dayu. 

481
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,280
Yes, that's right. 
Yeah, yeah. 

482
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,760
Hyundai I think they were linked
with many times. 

483
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,400
Mercedes. 
Yeah, Mercedes. 

484
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,160
We we were getting a rumor every
two weeks, but. 

485
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,680
There were very few that 
actually didn't. 

486
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,320
And, you know, we've probably 
given out the ones that didn't 

487
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,840
there, but there weren't many. 
So. 

488
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,320
Yeah. 
And what a good looking car it 

489
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,360
was like the Accord Touring car 
just looked good, didn't it? 

490
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:55,160
A big mind. 
It was big, but yeah, yeah, 

491
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:56,680
yeah. 
No, it was no surprise. 

492
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,800
The fruits of the tie up between
Williams and Renault only 

493
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,480
started showing in the week 
before the season with Alan Menu

494
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,360
telling BBC Sport I had my first
run, the new Laguna at 

495
00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:22,200
Silverstone the day before I had
to qualify at Donington Park. 

496
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,040
Prior to this, I had to share 
the sole remaining 1994 car with

497
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,040
my new teammate Will Hoy. 
At each test session there would

498
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:32,920
be a different set of mechanics 
present. 

499
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,360
They had to learn about the car 
just as much as the drivers. 

500
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,920
In fact, until the Donington 
Park race, Will and I have 

501
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,320
played a small role in the 
creation of the team. 

502
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,320
Despite the late debut of the 
1995 Laguna, it was showing 

503
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,200
impressive pace, particularly in
the hands of Menu who qualified 

504
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:56,200
second and third for the races. 
Andrew Very impressive 

505
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,080
performance in qualifying from 
the Renault GI, especially 

506
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,880
considering the lack of running 
in the lateness of the 1995 car.

507
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,120
Yeah, wasn't it just none of us 
really knew what to expect when 

508
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:12,160
they rolled up if despite the 
fact that TWR had effectively 

509
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,600
been in the series in the 
previous year, they hadn't 

510
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,040
really done much in the previous
year. 

511
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,640
So we weren't really used to F1 
teams running touring car teams,

512
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,240
so we had no idea what was going
to happen. 

513
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,680
But with a team and a reputation
of winnings, we really should 

514
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,120
have known better because after 
all, they came to Donnington as 

515
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:32,600
reigning F1 champions. 
And I remember in the Donnington

516
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,080
Report issue of Super Touring 
magazine, we actually did a big 

517
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,440
double page spread picture 
because that another thing that 

518
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,960
granted International used to do
and it's wonderful big pictures,

519
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,080
which all the all the magazines 
do now. 

520
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,760
If you look at they do GP racing
today and it's always pages. 

521
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:55,560
So yes, I was doing that 30 
years ago and we had this 

522
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,880
picture of menu standing on the 
grid with the lagoon and we put,

523
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:04,760
you know, the fact that for a 
car that had first run only 

524
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,200
three days earlier, whatever the
result was was an amazing 

525
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:09,520
result. 
I've said that because we're 

526
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,080
going to talk about it later. 
I don't want to sort of spoiler,

527
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,840
you know, no one doubts Williams
anymore, but many fear them, 

528
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,320
which I think sum doubt that how
the perceptions over the weekend

529
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,480
completely changed what Williams
was concerned. 

530
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,640
The rest of qualifying was a 
Richard Rydell demonstration. 

531
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,600
The Swede ramped pole for race 
one by 10th of a second ahead of

532
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,160
John Cleland was for race 2. 
He put himself ahead of Alan 

533
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:39,560
Menus Renault by a sizeable 
naughty .7 seconds Adam in the 

534
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,160
first beating for the 850 
Saloon. 

535
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,560
That's an incredibly impressive 
performance from Rydell. 

536
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,520
Yeah, X single seater as well. 
Yes. 

537
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,680
But yeah, really, really, really
impressive. 

538
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,680
And again, I don't think anybody
would have expected that at all.

539
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,840
You know, coming back from their
first season of season, a state 

540
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:01,920
car for them to come back the 
year after. 

541
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,800
And then, yeah, they've come 
back with a saloon. 

542
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,920
But nobody would have expected 
them to be winning races. 

543
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,640
No, if they did, they certainly 
wouldn't have expected it around

544
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,080
1. 
And I think if he hadn't been 

545
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,560
for his poor start at the first,
the first race, then he he may 

546
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,680
have even could he have got two 
wins, you think? 

547
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,040
I think Cleveland drove a 
cracking race in the first one. 

548
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,640
It's, it's funny, isn't it? 
Because Rydell would have still 

549
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,760
been a bit of an unknown. 
Because. 

550
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,840
Yeah, completely. 
He put the Anne Lammers to bed 

551
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,880
in 94, but it's only real 
highlight was third on the grid 

552
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,280
at Sneckton. 
And then that didn't start 

553
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,600
because there was a problem with
the car on the grid. 

554
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:44,040
So he never really had a chance 
to to shine in 94. 

555
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,880
So he was a bit of an unknown. 
I guess people weren't quite 

556
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,200
sure. 
Was he a good driver? 

557
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:50,880
Was it the car? 
You know, the car could have 

558
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,440
been brilliant or you know it. 
So to come along and and you 

559
00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:00,960
know, beat menu by 7/10 in in 
the race to qualify and that's 

560
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,600
that's some performance. 
Boards Paul Ruddesic took a pair

561
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,840
of fourths after suffering great
problems in the first session 

562
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:12,360
and not really being there in 
the second, whilst Tim Harvey 

563
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,680
failed to make it an all Volvo 
front row after differential 

564
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,800
problems and settled for a pair 
of fifth places. 

565
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,040
Other notable performances was 
Vauxhall's James Thompson taking

566
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,760
seventh in the first session and
3rd in the second. 

567
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,040
Perjury Simon Harrison took 
tenth out. 

568
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:34,560
Qualifying team #1 Patrick Watts
in the opening 30 minutes. 

569
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,880
Alex, some good performance 
there from the team newbies up 

570
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,680
and down the grid. 
Yeah, Thompson's very impressive

571
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,840
third in the second race 
particularly so, you know, his 

572
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:53,520
first year in a in a works 
environment, but he always 

573
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,400
showed that he had something 
special. 

574
00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:01,160
So, you know, notable and 
impressive, but almost to be 

575
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,240
expected. 
But Simon Harrison taking tenth,

576
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,080
it was interesting because he 
was his only year in touring 

577
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,920
cars in the sorry in the in the 
main class anyway. 

578
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,680
So it's a tough place to sort of
show. 

579
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,600
So I'm qualifying Patrick 
Watson, your first, first 

580
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:21,920
meeting. 
That's not bad at all, is it? 

581
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,800
Who'd been, you know, Patrick 
had been with Peugeot for for a 

582
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,680
year at that point. 
So yeah, not not a bad. 

583
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,080
Results as well. 
Yeah, yeah. 

584
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:36,360
I always wondered if Harrison 
got a slightly better car, would

585
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,280
he have done more? 
It'd be interesting to. 

586
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,000
It would have been interesting 
to find out at the time. 

587
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,880
But yeah, he he didn't have much
luck that year in 95 did the 

588
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,480
old, old Harrison. 
A man with a lot of attention on

589
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,320
his shoulders was Alfredo May's 
Derek Warwick, but the news was 

590
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,600
not good as he took 17th for 
race one and then 19th on the 

591
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,880
grid for race 2. 
I don't feel confident or happy 

592
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,760
at the moment, said Warwick. 
I'm overdriving it and the car 

593
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,880
feels like it's on a knife edge.
Andrew, a pretty tough day be so

594
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,639
far for Warwick, I'm sure you'd 
agree. 

595
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:15,520
Yeah, I mean, we've had a bit of
a discussion about this already,

596
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:20,480
haven't we? 
I at the time was prepared to 

597
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:25,520
wait and see because he hadn't 
had a lot of testing. 

598
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:31,440
There'd been a lot of problems. 
Simoni at the time was in front 

599
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,679
of Derek, but he wasn't 
massively in front of Derek. 

600
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:38,159
I think in the first race he 
was, he qualified something like

601
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:40,280
13th. 
Derek was 17th. 

602
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,400
So he was struggling with the 
car at the time as well. 

603
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,320
Unfortunately as the season went
on and it it, you know it, it 

604
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,560
got worse. 
But I think there there was a 

605
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,719
whole thing about Alpha that 
everyone expected much more than

606
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,640
they got in the first race of 95
because of what had happened in 

607
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,320
94. 
And if you actually drill down 

608
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,480
into it, because of what had 
happened mainly in the first 

609
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:09,320
half of 1994. 
So, yeah, so I think 

610
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,680
expectations were were over 
high. 

611
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,600
I I was guilty of it. 
We, we put them among the 

612
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,680
favourites in my season preview.
I said that Simoni would 

613
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,520
definitely win races and what it
might. 

614
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:37,120
And yeah, very wrong. 
It was a very warm April day at 

615
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,480
Burlington Park with 
temperatures of over 20°. 

616
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,400
You'd hardly believe that five 
days before the official TOCA 

617
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,920
test was snowed off. 
Sadly for Ricard, his hard work 

618
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,800
on Saturday it was undone almost
immediately. 

619
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,000
After an appalling start from 
pole in race one, he was 

620
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,680
swallowed up by Cleland Menu and
Raddersitch into Redgate and 

621
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,080
dropped to 4th place. 
I was on the limiter as the 

622
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,680
lights turned to green and just 
bogged down by. 

623
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:06,920
Dell. 
Said after the race. 

624
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,520
Adam, it's something we've 
mentioned before and I think 

625
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,840
it's fair to say that over the 
course of 1995, we eventually 

626
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,480
learned that Rickard's weak spot
was his race starts, wasn't it? 

627
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,360
Yeah, completely, certainly let 
him down in the first race 

628
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,280
because you look at the 
dominance that he had in race 

629
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,280
too, just made you wonder what 
could have been. 

630
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,360
Although I have to say, watching
the race back, Cleland drove a 

631
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,720
super, super race, I think, 
yeah, the pressure at the start 

632
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:37,840
for a first 2-3 laps and then 
just edged down just got the job

633
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:38,680
done. 
He did really well. 

634
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,360
But yeah, he was definitely his 
weak spot for the Cup. 

635
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,360
It just makes you wonder, did 
they throughout the course of 

636
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:49,280
the season or even prior to the 
season, how much standing starts

637
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,360
did they practice? 
Yeah. 

638
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,240
And then did it become more of a
like before we finish today, 

639
00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:57,480
regard, we need to practice some
starts with you. 

640
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,200
Was it just a case that you just
couldn't get the knack of it, 

641
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,120
you know? 
I think at some point Volvo took

642
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,040
him somewhere and they literally
spent the whole day just doing 

643
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,600
standing starts with him. 
And I don't think it helped that

644
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,440
Mister Cleland often got in 
regards ear about it. 

645
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,160
You know, along the line. 
He's told me before he's he's 

646
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,120
gone up to him at Brands Hatch. 
And so Ricard, you know, when 

647
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,520
you do your bad start again, I'm
going to go to the right of you 

648
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,920
if that's OK. 
And then just little things like

649
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,520
that. 
And it's yeah, it's it's 

650
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:37,000
certainly plagued a lot of 
certainly in 95. 

651
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,240
He got the hang of it in the 
end, but it did take some did 

652
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:43,560
take some time. 
At the end of the first of 18 

653
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:48,520
laps, Cleland LED from menu 
Radisich, Rydell Harvey and 

654
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,760
Julian Bailey in the Toyota. 
Menu sometimes looked like he 

655
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,560
was challenged in Cleland but 
the order remained the same 

656
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,000
until lap 4 when Will Hoy 
launched a move on Johnny 

657
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,040
Chicoto at the Melbourne 
Hairpin. 

658
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:07,360
Hoy carried too much speed into 
the corner past Chicoto and then

659
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,280
harpooned Bailey, who was in 
front of the BMW. 

660
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,840
And where? 
Where Julian Bailey, 6th place 

661
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,400
Tim Harvey is ahead. 
Chicoto is behind us. 

662
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,160
Somebody's hit. 
Julian Bailey. 

663
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,080
It's Will Hoy. 
Will Hoy, 22, recovers in the 

664
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:27,000
Renault and Julian Bailey has 
stalled the engine and tried 

665
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,600
desperately to restart it. 
I was bidding my time sitting 

666
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,120
behind, Harvey explained to 
subdued Bailey. 

667
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,600
After the race, out of nowhere a
blue Renault appeared, would 

668
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,720
have lost it big time and if it 
wasn't for me he'd have been 

669
00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:45,480
often in the gravel. 
Will agreed that you have missed

670
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,720
his breaking point. 
I did miss my breaking point and

671
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:52,760
overshoot slightly, but it was 
just a racing incident. 

672
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,120
Julian was the last person I 
wanted to hit. 

673
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,520
So let's hear your views on it 
guys. 

674
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:05,840
Just a slight outbreaking and 
racing incident, or has Will Hoy

675
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,920
bought that quite wrong into 
hell for her thing? 

676
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,880
I think the fact that like the 
statement alone, I think to race

677
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,640
an incident, well, you would say
that because you're the one 

678
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,320
that's just harpooned another 
car. 

679
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,680
I just saw it as like an 
absolute yeah, harpooning dot. 

680
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,880
T-bone got it completely wrong 
and I felt sorry for badly 

681
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,040
because he was doing well at the
time. 

682
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:26,200
Yeah, he was. 
Yeah. 

683
00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:29,520
You know, it was a debut for 
that car as well, wasn't it? 

684
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,240
I thought they were doing, he 
was doing a cracking job in 

685
00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:32,600
that. 
And then literally like 

686
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,400
harpooned him. 
Like he couldn't, he couldn't 

687
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,240
describe it any more than that. 
So then to try and say it was a 

688
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:41,000
racing incident. 
Yeah, it's the fact that it's 

689
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,440
not even the car in front of him
that he's hit. 

690
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,760
It's the car in front. 
He's finished that one because 

691
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,160
he was. 
Out of control. 

692
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,640
It's like, it's like arriving at
a load of standing traffic. 

693
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,240
If you're not concentrating, 
what could happen? 

694
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,680
Racing incident. 
Yeah, yeah, I was. 

695
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:03,160
I, I, I When I was looking back 
and I saw that crew, I did 

696
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:04,360
laugh. 
I thought, oh Will. 

697
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,760
He did admit to making the 
mistake. 

698
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,160
That is very true. 
I I look back at the time then I

699
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,600
don't recall him saying racing 
to me, but he definitely said 

700
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:18,040
yeah, I got that wrong. 
I think Patrick Ed was the first

701
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,600
one to give him a bollocking. 
Yeah, exactly what was, what was

702
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,960
more interesting is what 
happened afterwards, which we're

703
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:25,880
supposed to talk about a bit 
later, but we can talk about it 

704
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:30,280
now if you like, which is the 
fact that TOCA had a new rule 

705
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,480
that they'd introduced over the 
winter, which they called an eye

706
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,760
for an eye. 
So basically if you ruined 

707
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:37,640
somebody's race, you lost your 
result. 

708
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,720
So for that reason they threw 
toy out of the results and then 

709
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,560
Renault appealed and he got put 
back in. 

710
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,960
So Toca appealed the appeal, 
which was very unusual for the 

711
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:54,680
time, very unusual indeed, but 
it was indicative of the amount 

712
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,560
of power. 
By that time Toca felt it had as

713
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,480
as the organisers of the most 
successful British motorsport 

714
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,240
championship of the time, bar 
none. 

715
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,320
There also might have been a 
degree at this time of the big 

716
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,960
world famous Formula One team 
thinking that they could 

717
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,800
dominate this little British tin
pot. 

718
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,200
Touring Club. 
Championships and being Yeah and

719
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,960
being put firmly in their place.
Julie Julie Bailey was a 

720
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,440
character. 
We had a fantasy touring car 

721
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,640
league in the year of Super 
Touring and there was one driver

722
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,240
who in the second issue ran out 
to find out what his price was. 

723
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,520
Yes, was it, was it him? 
Excellent. 

724
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,000
Because I, I, I've seen that 
little clip, that little snippet

725
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,920
in your magazine before saying 
OneDrive and phoned up the 

726
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,400
offices to find out and it was 
OK. 

727
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,280
It was Julian, yes. 
Yeah, the man that had. 

728
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,680
Who was it? 
Who was the great train robber 

729
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,200
in his shower? 
Yes, I've heard about this 

730
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,000
story. 
Oh, it's very true. 

731
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,680
It's true. 
Yeah. 

732
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,280
Wow. 
Ronnie Biggs. 

733
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,880
That's it, Ronnie. 
Biggs Yeah, I I've heard, I 

734
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,040
heard this story and and I 
thought no, but no, apparently 

735
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:07,880
it's true. 
And yeah. 

736
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,480
Further back, James Thompson was
recovering from a shaky opening 

737
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,640
few laps and looking at making a
move on Gian Piero Simoni's Alfa

738
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,240
Romeo. 
Going into the essays, the 

739
00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:24,120
youngster dies to the inside of 
both Simone and Patrick Watson, 

740
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:28,040
the Peugeot overtaking both cars
in one corner. 

741
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,960
Alex, that was quite the move, 
wasn't it? 

742
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,200
Potentially the move of the 
entire season done already by 

743
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,160
Thompson I. 
Mean it was it was very 

744
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:41,960
impressive considering how 
little overtaking there was in 

745
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,720
this meeting. 
And there's Tomo new kid on the 

746
00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:50,800
block diving up the inside of to
Patrick was was certainly a 

747
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:52,480
seasoned touring car driver at 
this point. 

748
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,600
And Simone was, you know, he was
not a newbie anymore. 

749
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,600
He was a second year in a tin 
top. 

750
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:03,480
So yeah, very impressive move by
a very impressive youngster. 

751
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,720
Incredible move. 
Yeah, as you say, quite possibly

752
00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:11,560
overtaking the sorted there, 
there and then It was, it was 

753
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:16,960
very special. 
One map later and Derek 

754
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:21,280
Warwick's BTCC debut came to an 
abrupt end in the barriers at 

755
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,280
Mclean's. 
Until that point, Alpha had 

756
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,880
circulated just inside the top 
dozen and had looked to be 

757
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,880
making amends for a miserable 
practice in qualifying. 

758
00:43:31,240 --> 00:43:34,120
Derek Warwick, 12. 
The head of Brabham and Kay 

759
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,720
where with Warwick it's not a 
happy transition for him from 

760
00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:40,440
Formula One into the British 
Touring Car Championship for 

761
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,040
Alfa Romeo. 
Warwick leads these two out of 

762
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,280
the old hairpin. 
We're with him now, climbing up 

763
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:52,480
towards Mclean's, doing about 
125 miles an hour down into the 

764
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,920
right-hander and he's lost it 
into the travel trap, into the 

765
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,200
tower wall. 
He's broken our camera lens. 

766
00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:01,200
That'll be 6 grand, please, 
Derek. 

767
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,520
But I don't suppose Derek too 
worried about that. 

768
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:08,840
Down to the race and it's an 
embarrassing end to his first 

769
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,040
British Touring Car Championship
race. 

770
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,840
The car just got unbelievable 
understood, said Warwick after 

771
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,440
the race. 
Eventually it just lurched 

772
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,680
around and got the better of me.
I'm OK, but As for the car, not 

773
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:27,280
sure yet. 
Andrew, it's the miserable 

774
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:31,120
weekend of miserable weekend 
continued and as we alluded to 

775
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:35,480
earlier, made even more 
embarrassing for Derek as, 

776
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:40,120
fortunately for him, by the Erin
a stone flying up into the BBC 

777
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,880
camera and Murray being able to 
do his commentary magic on it in

778
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:48,480
the edit, wasn't it? 
Just keeps getting worse, 

779
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:49,480
doesn't it? 
It does. 

780
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,960
It was a miserable debut and it 
wasn't going to get much better 

781
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,360
through the season. 
As I said earlier, what none of 

782
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,640
us predicted was that the 
Champions will be so poor in the

783
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,520
following season. 
Wasn't really pro drives fault, 

784
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,680
more the fact that without the 
wings and splitters and the 

785
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:10,680
advantages that the Alfred had 
in the first half of of 94, it 

786
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:15,160
wasn't really that good a 
touring car as people thought it

787
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,920
was. 
And Mr. Warwick, for want of his

788
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,480
things, he just happened to be 
in the wrong place at the wrong 

789
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:27,080
time. 
Obviously Adam thinks there was 

790
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:32,680
a degree of fault on him, but 
neither Tarquini or Simoni could

791
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:36,040
get anything like the 
performance out of Carlo were a 

792
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:40,080
year earlier. 
So yeah, an unfortunate start to

793
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:41,880
touring car career for Mr. 
Warwick. 

794
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,480
As for any more overtaking, 
Thompson took Sugdon in the 

795
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,520
Melbourne Loop on lap 9, whilst 
the lap later Chicoto overtook 

796
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:55,920
Harvey going into yeses. 
And that was about it, Adam. 

797
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,400
An unusually quiet affair by 
touring car standards for this 

798
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,560
opening race, wasn't it? 
Yeah, it was exactly for touring

799
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,680
car standards, yes. 
I think the fact that it was 

800
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,880
round one might add for 
something to do with it. 

801
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:13,240
But I also think Donnington, 
it's very, it's quite a fast 

802
00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:15,520
flowing circuit. 
There's not a lot of stop start 

803
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:20,000
other than the Melbourne loop. 
So it can be a bit like that 

804
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,880
round Donnington if you've got 
cars of similar speed where it's

805
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:29,400
a little bit processional, you 
don't really drop below, you 

806
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,280
know, you don't you don't go 
down to many sort of like second

807
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,720
gear corners or, you know, 
really heavy breaking corners. 

808
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:38,000
It's very you're on the brakes 
very minimal really around 

809
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,600
Donnington other than coming 
back into the obviously under 

810
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,000
the Dunlop Bridge chicane and 
then the Melbourne loop and the 

811
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:44,600
and the last corner. 
But the rest of it is all very 

812
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,920
fast and flowing. 
So it can be a bit like that. 

813
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,800
But you know, in reality, you 
know whether it was down to the 

814
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:51,200
arrow or not. 
It it. 

815
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:53,760
Was never going to last. 
You know, there's still 

816
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,240
incidents. 
It's just not as many as 

817
00:46:55,240 --> 00:46:57,360
probably what you'd expect. 
But you can't always expect 

818
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,880
carnage all the time from a 
fan's perspective. 

819
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:01,520
But it was never going to. 
It was going to be going to stay

820
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:02,480
that way for the rest of the 
season. 

821
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:06,560
Cleland stretched out his lead 
to win by 6 seconds from Menu 

822
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,960
and Radissitch Hoy finished in 
fifth position but as we just 

823
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,720
touched on, was initially 
excluded from the race due to 

824
00:47:13,720 --> 00:47:17,200
his incident with Julian Bailey 
as declared by Clark of the 

825
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:18,640
course. 
Pierre Ammoniere. 

826
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,840
Hoy appealed that penalty 
successfully and was reinstated.

827
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,840
And then, as discussed in an 
unprecedented move, Toca 

828
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,520
appealed the decision, wanting 
Hoy's exclusion to be 

829
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,160
reinstated. 
But it never was. 

830
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,600
It never was. 
So they obviously saw something 

831
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,320
that lots of us didn't. 
Is that even more bizarre a 

832
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,600
situation because of that, do 
you think then, Alex? 

833
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,520
Yeah. 
I mean, as Adam said, it's very 

834
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,600
obvious that it was who was at 
fault. 

835
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:55,960
So for for me, for for that 
person to effectively be 

836
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,560
unpunished whilst Julian Bailey 
is out of the race. 

837
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:05,160
Yeah, I just found bizarre. 
But you know, it's yeah, there 

838
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,480
was obviously something. 
But yeah, from the outside, a 

839
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:12,920
very, very unusual move to. 
I certainly wouldn't have 

840
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,800
reinstated Hoy if it was down to
me, but. 

841
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:27,440
We did in those days get odd 
decisions were not as rare as 

842
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,720
they may be today. 
There wasn't nearly the 

843
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:33,120
technology available to the 
people that were making all the 

844
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,600
decisions, you know, to argue 
against. 

845
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:44,640
And there was a degree of we are
the people in charge of we say 

846
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:47,840
this is what we think, then this
is what we think, you know, and 

847
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:52,800
once and if you tried to other 
than overturned, you were 

848
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,160
struggling. 
I mean, I mean, TOCA were just 

849
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,280
as bad. 
I mean, my incident later that 

850
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:02,680
I'd told you about what if a 
couple of years later I found 

851
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:06,440
myself actually a star witness 
for Ray Mallett trying to get a 

852
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,240
ride height infringement 
overturned. 

853
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,800
And it was absolutely clear from
what I'd seen on the pad that 

854
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:16,400
the the measurement hadn't been 
taken properly, but the IT was 

855
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,600
still thrown out. 
No, sorry, we're not changing 

856
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,400
that. 
We've made the decision and so, 

857
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:25,360
yeah, he used to get the odd, 
very questionable decision in 

858
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:39,110
those days. 
Rydell made sure not to repeat 

859
00:49:39,110 --> 00:49:43,830
his Race One star in Race 2 and 
flew off the line leading menu 

860
00:49:43,830 --> 00:49:46,150
Radisich and Thompson into red 
game. 

861
00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:49,990
At the end of the first lap, the
Swede had already pulled out 

862
00:49:49,990 --> 00:49:52,310
enough of a gap to weaken the 
toe behind. 

863
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,200
By the end of lap 2, the lead 
was almost half the length of 

864
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,280
the pit straight. 
I had to make a good start in 

865
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,680
the second race, then I pushed 
hard for the first two laps 

866
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,200
until I was comfortable with the
gap, Rydell said to Autos Ball 

867
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,760
after the race. 
Andrew, the pressure must have 

868
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,760
really peed on. 
Ricard's make the most of his 

869
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,480
pole this time, and he really 
did make the most of his pole 

870
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:19,880
the second time round. 
Yeah, it it, he definitely had 

871
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,280
the pressure on him. 
He's less than perfect start 

872
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,640
technique. 
That was an issue we saw 

873
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,600
particularly in the early part 
of the season. 

874
00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:30,440
And of course he was in one of 
the perceived best cars run by 

875
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,600
Mr. Walkinshaw, who it really 
didn't pay to get on the wrong 

876
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:38,760
side of at this stage. 
We at Super Touring magazine, 

877
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,320
well, me, I was the in house 
senatorial stuff. 

878
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:45,720
We thought Rick Hard was 
favorite for the championship. 

879
00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:48,400
And in fact, our Donnington 
cover declared who will stop 

880
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,320
Volvo. 
So yes, he you know, he needed 

881
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:55,320
to step up to the mark and make 
the most of the of the hardware 

882
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,000
he had. 
Yeah, the Volvo was pretty 

883
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,680
dominant at the start because 
obviously Tim won the two races 

884
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:04,880
then at Brands. 
So yeah, in the early part of 

885
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,160
the season, you would look at 
Volvo and think, yeah, these are

886
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,040
these are going to be winning 
the title shortly. 

887
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:15,680
It was only John's four or five 
wins in a row in the middle of 

888
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:19,360
the season that that put John in
in contention, really. 

889
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,360
Three of the yeses for the 4th 
time, Thompson found himself 

890
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,080
with Harvey's Volvo right behind
him and passed Cleland on the 

891
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:31,560
run to the Melbourne Hairpin. 
I didn't want Tim between us so 

892
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:35,000
I passed her on at the hairpin 
to get some breathing space then

893
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,400
let him back through, but 
unfortunately Tim came through 

894
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,640
as well. 
Thompson said after the race. 

895
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,760
Adam, some pretty instinctive 
drive in there from Harvey to 

896
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:50,280
lose her to sort of get a place 
back in a weird teammate swap 

897
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:52,800
scenario. 
Yeah, I think Tim just did the 

898
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:54,280
right thing. 
He could see what was happening 

899
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,040
there, so he just made sure he 
thought, well, if he's going 

900
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:57,360
through, I've got the run as 
well. 

901
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,480
So I'm just going to glue myself
as close to that bumper as 

902
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,800
possible and just go with it. 
It's like a free pass, really. 

903
00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:06,680
But I thought JT had a great 
effort, you know, put a great 

904
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,520
effort in to do what he did. 
So it's always worth a shot. 

905
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,000
And looking back at the footage,
I'd have done exactly the same. 

906
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,920
And then, yeah, he did a good 
job getting past the pair. 

907
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,720
But then unfortunately, But it 
was worth the effort. 

908
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,920
No contact made, no incidents. 
But Tim did the right thing. 

909
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:24,080
Yeah. 
He just did what he needed to do

910
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:27,360
and just glue himself to the 
point where it just didn't allow

911
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,560
any room for for Thompson to 
come back in. 

912
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:36,120
If when I saw that that move and
and and this succession of of 

913
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:39,880
racing this, this succession 
elapse, it reminded me of 

914
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:44,320
Jimmy's pod with us. 
And do you remember him telling 

915
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:49,680
us that he passed John in the 
opening race race meeting and 

916
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,680
John went nuts mad. 
Yeah. 

917
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,240
And obviously now with with that
added bit of information, it 

918
00:52:56,240 --> 00:52:57,720
just made me chuckle thinking 
and. 

919
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,720
Also John, but he wouldn't 
wasn't expecting all that in 

920
00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:03,680
race too, because he'd had such 
a dominant race. 

921
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:04,600
One. 
Yeah, yeah. 

922
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:06,640
Then all of a sudden he's 
looking in the mirror. 

923
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:10,600
Thinking what's going on? 
Well, he soon got ahead of 

924
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:14,520
Thompson and Radissitch with the
4th starting to suffer with 

925
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:19,120
appalling tyre wear. 
Alex the tie around the Monday. 

926
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,960
That would be a theme that we 
would hear a lot of during 1995,

927
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,360
isn't it? 
Yeah, with the Ford, it just 

928
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,480
seemed to get worse and worse 
throughout the season that they 

929
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,400
would just end up chewing its 
tyres. 

930
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,480
They actually started the quite 
competitively the Monday. 

931
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:39,000
But if you look at the season 
results, once you get past that 

932
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:43,720
halfway mark, especially poor 
Adesich, his results just fell 

933
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:46,200
off a Cliff. 
And I don't know what had 

934
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:50,640
happened, but the Ford could not
last the race without eating its

935
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:54,280
tyres. 
It's a, it's a, it's a shame 

936
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,640
because it obviously had pace. 
The Mondeo that year was clearly

937
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,920
a quick car but just couldn't 
last the race distance. 

938
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:06,600
And it wasn't the only one. 
A lot of the time people 

939
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:10,320
questioned Rydell because he was
set in all these pole position 

940
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,720
times. 
Primary example here, you know, 

941
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:15,640
7/10 off 2nd place menu in the 
Renault. 

942
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:22,240
But they had the Dunlops. 
And from what Ricard said, the 

943
00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:25,840
Dunlops were very quick in 
qualifying but just didn't have 

944
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:30,240
the pace in the race to keep up 
with the Michelin short cars. 

945
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,680
So the the pole positions, 
Ricard had something like 15 

946
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,080
this season. 
You know, it was an incredible 

947
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:39,320
number of poles. 
I'm not saying it was just the 

948
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:43,280
tyres, but aided by a good 
qualifying tyre that just didn't

949
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,680
last. 
And and Ford could not make 

950
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:49,640
these Michelins last either. 
So yeah, especially towards the 

951
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:54,000
second-half of 95, Ford just 
went backwards. 

952
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,160
And I think if I'm right in 
saying Radissick hardly scored a

953
00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:58,560
point in the second-half of the 
season. 

954
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,200
As the remaining laps reeled 
off, the leaders spread 

955
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:06,960
themselves out and a busy crowd 
of 25,000 had to content 

956
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:09,880
themselves with the limited 
action further down the field, 

957
00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:14,240
most notably James K who plugged
away to give Honda an early 

958
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:17,840
boost with its first points for 
the impressive Accord. 

959
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:22,320
In the end, however, it was 
Rydell who cruised home in front

960
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:26,400
of the boss, Tom Walconshaw, 
with 7 seconds in hand over 

961
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:28,920
Cleland. 
We were sure from the beginning 

962
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,160
when we reviewed the before we 
started the program where we're 

963
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,320
all sure that given enough 
development time we could make 

964
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:36,400
the car win. 
So, you know, we knew it was 

965
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,920
going to take time and now it 
started to win. 

966
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,840
Whilst Volvo and Vauxhall were 
delighted, there were others 

967
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,800
with some concerns after the 
season opener had the new 

968
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,920
aerodynamic regulations killed 
off the spectacle of the BTCC. 

969
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:55,000
TOCA denied these claims, with 
boss Alan Gal confident that the

970
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,960
racing will survive unharmed. 
The first race was a bit 

971
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,200
processional, said Gal. 
But that sometimes happens. 

972
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,240
If you look at the second race, 
there was a cracking fight from 

973
00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:09,160
2nd to 8th. 
We've only had two races so it's

974
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:13,320
too early to judge. 
I just say how funny it is now 

975
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,320
that Alan GAO is here trying to 
say how exciting Super Touring 

976
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,840
is and if you listen to him now 
he'll tell you how boring Super 

977
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:24,800
Touring was and we were all 
wearing rose tinted spectacles, 

978
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:27,320
blah blah blah. 
I just find it funny. 

979
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:32,360
That's because Alan Gao always 
lives for the moment and what's 

980
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,600
coming. 
He never dwells on the past. 

981
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:38,240
Exactly. 
Andrew, where did you sit on 

982
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:42,440
this argument at the time? 
Was there any concerns that you 

983
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,400
had about the racing or, you 
know, people who were in the 

984
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,040
panic in the media had concerns 
after round one? 

985
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:51,120
Yeah. 
I had concerns, I think some of 

986
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:54,080
my fellows had concerns, but I 
was also hedging my bets. 

987
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,400
If we'd had social media in 
those days, it would have been 

988
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:03,040
lit up in the days of the break,
everyone predicting the imminent

989
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:07,240
demise of the BTCC. 
But as I wrote in the magazine, 

990
00:57:07,240 --> 00:57:11,320
this was not the first fairly 
tedious opening meeting that 

991
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:13,520
we've been to. 
They've happened before and it 

992
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:18,600
was a bit early to pin the blame
on wings and splitters, but they

993
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:21,760
did have the effect of cutting 
breaking distances which meant 

994
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:26,400
they cut overtaking 
opportunities and personally I'd

995
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,080
rather the BTCC had remained 
without them. 

996
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:33,120
But let's face it, if Alpha 
hadn't have done it in 94, 

997
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:35,600
someone else would have done it 
soon after and we would have got

998
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,720
them and the FIA would always be
forced to come up with a 

999
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,920
solution, so it was always going
to happen. 

1000
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:46,400
I'm pretty sure if if Alpha 
Course hadn't done it, I think 

1001
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,640
someone like Williams TWR would 
have done it. 

1002
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:52,120
The the were contrasting views 
amongst the drivers weren't 

1003
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:54,040
there Alex? 
And you've got some quotes for 

1004
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:56,480
us on that. 
Very subject I have, yeah. 

1005
00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:00,360
So obviously, first of all, I 
told you earlier about Hamish 

1006
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:07,160
Irvine's nine second qualifying 
deficit to pole position. 

1007
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:11,200
Didn't you say you had a funny 
story about Mr. Irvine, Andrew? 

1008
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,680
Yeah, go through your stats 
because I think we should leave 

1009
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:16,320
this to the end. 
OK, I will. 

1010
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:18,800
So we've got some few a few 
quotes here. 

1011
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,440
John Cleland at the time said 
the wings stopped some of the 

1012
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:25,680
opportunistic and idiotic 
outbreak in moves and breaking 

1013
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:28,760
distances are down, but I don't 
think it will be processional. 

1014
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,840
I'm sure we'll see more 
overtaking and action at Brands 

1015
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,880
Hatch. 
That makes me laugh because ask 

1016
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:38,920
Julian Bailey before that, the 
stupid overtaking moves have 

1017
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,640
been eradicated. 
Very true, Tim Harvey said. 

1018
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,920
People are having to think about
overtaking more, so the moves 

1019
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,200
are better thought out and a lot
more decisive. 

1020
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:53,400
Paul Radisson said he thought 
that they took they took it too 

1021
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:55,600
far and it made the cars too 
easy to drive. 

1022
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,760
They've made more corners easily
flat, so there's less scope for 

1023
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,800
capitalizing on mistakes. 
It may make for a better 

1024
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,000
spectacle because you have to do
something supersonic to pass. 

1025
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:11,400
Like Will Hoy. 
Tim Sogdon said you don't feel 

1026
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,320
as. 
Sonic Scud missile. 

1027
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:18,200
You don't feel as inclined to 
stick in neck out perhaps, but I

1028
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:19,760
wouldn't say it's made much of a
difference. 

1029
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:24,760
That was Tim Sogdon and finally 
everyone's friend in this one, 

1030
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,640
Will Hoy said. 
I did a lot of overtaking. 

1031
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:29,920
I don't think we know yet the 
car's limits. 

1032
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,600
With wings. 
There is still plenty of chances

1033
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,200
for overtaking. 
So there we go, and of. 

1034
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,200
Course, he would say. 
That a mixed bag. 

1035
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:39,920
He knew the limits with the 
wings. 

1036
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:41,960
He realized it didn't fly down 
the Melbourne. 

1037
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:46,920
Why we were all doing this poor 
old assassination. 

1038
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:49,800
I know poor Will. 
Can can we? 

1039
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:54,720
Can I just point out that the 
person that was responsible a 

1040
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:58,880
season or two before for that 
memorable phrase the car upside 

1041
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:00,560
down is a Toyota? 
Yes. 

1042
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:05,320
When the upside down car was 
Will Hoy at the Sealstone Grand 

1043
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:09,440
Prix, the person that caused 
that was his then teammate 

1044
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,960
Julian Bailey. 
Yes. 

1045
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:15,760
What you're saying it's revenge?
Andrew, is that what? 

1046
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:16,560
He. 
Want. 

1047
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:18,520
Yes, and Will would never have 
done that. 

1048
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,200
He was too nice to go. 
And that was a similar 

1049
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,520
harpooning, wasn't it, That one?
Yeah, yeah. 

1050
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,960
It was, it was right. 
Do you want my Hamish ovine? 

1051
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:29,640
Story then? 
Yes, please. 

1052
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,760
Right. 
Few days after Donington, I got 

1053
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:36,400
a letter at Super Touring 
editorial office from a 

1054
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:38,800
spectator who had been to the 
meeting. 

1055
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,760
And he'd taken his son to the to
see the touring cars. 

1056
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,680
And when he got to Donington, he
wanted to park on the infield, 

1057
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:49,120
but he was really annoyed 
because it was already full. 

1058
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:53,120
So we had to park in the outside
car park and then a Scottish man

1059
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:58,200
knocked on his car window. 
You see, Hamish's deal was so 

1060
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,280
last minute to run this ex 
Thompson Peugeot. 

1061
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:06,240
He hadn't realised that he 
needed a road version of the 

1062
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:11,400
Peugeot available to take him on
the parade lap at the start of 

1063
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:14,200
the race to waiver all the 
crowds, because this was a 

1064
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:17,280
requirement of every team to 
provide the cars necessary for 

1065
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:20,400
that. 
So Hames sent his team members 

1066
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:24,480
into the public car parts to try
and find a suitable car. 

1067
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:29,080
Seconds after this guy's parked 
up and turned his engine off, he

1068
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:32,800
finds himself driving into the 
paddock with a paddock pass on 

1069
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:36,960
his windscreen, spending the day
with the team and then driving 

1070
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:41,400
with his son in the car around 
the track in a line of cars. 

1071
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:45,280
We've just retired Formula One 
driver Derek Warwick just in 

1072
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:49,120
front of him and a BTCC driver 
actually got his roof. 

1073
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:51,600
He says that someone's totally 
gone, smacked by the whole 

1074
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,600
experience and apparently Hamish
even apologised for not doing 

1075
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:57,760
very well in the race. 
Wow. 

1076
01:01:58,200 --> 01:01:59,200
It's amazing. 
Story. 

1077
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:01,520
Absolutely amazing. 
That's a very cool story. 

1078
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:04,440
Back in those Super Touring 
days, in the early days, Alan 

1079
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,960
Gale used to leave that parade 
lap in the course car, whichever

1080
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:11,160
car he'd been given by a 
manufacturer, and there was a 

1081
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:13,680
season when the drivers kept 
playing tricks on him. 

1082
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,400
He arrived at the car one day to
find it still sitting on bricks 

1083
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:21,880
with all the wheels gone. 
But the the very best time was 

1084
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:25,600
just before the parade lap. 
At one meeting, he was asked if 

1085
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:29,400
this EastEnders actress could go
round in the car with him, and 

1086
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:31,080
of course he said yeah, no 
problem. 

1087
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:36,320
And apparently qualifying that 
day was particularly frantic 

1088
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:39,800
because everybody wanted pole 
position to be as close as 

1089
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:42,680
possible to Alan's car as it 
went round the parade lap. 

1090
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:48,600
Because when the parade lap 
started, this EastEnders actress

1091
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,600
proved that she was anything but
an EastEnders actress because 

1092
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,360
she started to divest herself of
her clothes. 

1093
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:03,520
She was a stripper, but Evan's 
driving at this Woman's Day and 

1094
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:08,040
apparently every driver wanted 
to be on pole position just so 

1095
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,000
he could see it. 
They were good times. 

1096
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:19,960
Wow, I got told about the bricks
story, the the the the car on 

1097
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,840
the bricks and I got told who 
was responsible for that. 

1098
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,680
Maybe I won't hear it, but I've 
didn't know. 

1099
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:29,320
I've not heard that one. 
I think Mr. Clavin was at the 

1100
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:32,760
center of. 
It he was, it was and sadly his 

1101
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:36,800
accomplice is no longer with us 
so can't be held accountable. 

1102
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:41,560
So yeah, I was told it was John 
and Will wouldn't. 

1103
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:47,920
Surprise me, yeah. 
Yes, back to Hamish Irvine, but 

1104
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:51,280
yes, it's a nine seconds was the
gap. 

1105
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:56,080
Like I say, I'm sure that's not 
all Arrow, seeing as Hamish had 

1106
01:03:56,080 --> 01:04:02,480
only had the car on the Friday, 
but yeah, it's it's certainly an

1107
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,480
interesting one. 
And I'm intrigued to know at 

1108
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:07,880
this point, where would you 
stand with the the aero? 

1109
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:12,560
Would you have preferred to 
drive the cars with it or would 

1110
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,480
you have preferred the racing an
opportunity that the cars 

1111
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:17,920
without the aero probably would 
have provided them on the 

1112
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,760
overtaking side of things? 
I think there's this two way. 

1113
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:24,760
I've really thought about this 
and I think there's two ways to 

1114
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:27,760
look at it from a from a driver 
that wants to eradicate the 

1115
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:30,600
understeer, the oversteer to 
give you more grip, more speed 

1116
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:33,920
through the corners, fastest 
laps time, which is what you're 

1117
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:36,120
you're trying to achieve all the
time. 

1118
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,040
Yeah, give me a splitter and 
give me some give me a rear wing

1119
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:43,400
and give me some error. 
But also think from a spectacle 

1120
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:46,800
and which will make it far more 
entertaining. 

1121
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,280
Lose the arrow cars run over the
place. 

1122
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:50,760
Similar to what I think 
Radissitch. 

1123
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:54,640
Before. 
You read it out about, you know,

1124
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:56,800
some corners are flat now and 
that weren't before. 

1125
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,680
You know, with that you want to 
try and you know you'd be on and

1126
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:01,760
off the throttle or touching the
brake slightly to try and get 

1127
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:04,040
the car in the position that you
felt like you needed to get in 

1128
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:06,120
to get the best result. 
There's a lot more going into it

1129
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:10,400
without the arrow in terms of 
driving it and and actually 

1130
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:12,400
being on the edge and the car's 
moving around a lot. 

1131
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:16,760
So I like, I like that because 
it it's more about your driving 

1132
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:19,200
style. 
Do we know what the actual lap 

1133
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:22,000
time is? 
Say for, as an example, the 

1134
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:24,600
Cavalier with its arrow on and 
without its arrow? 

1135
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:30,320
John Cleland in 94 Donington GP 
loop his qualifying time was a 

1136
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:40,640
140 dead and in 95 GP loop 
qualifying time 137 seven so 2.3

1137
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:42,240
seconds. 
Some of that could be weather. 

1138
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:45,000
I mean the weather conditions 
are like tire compass maybe so 

1139
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,560
that a bit of arrow obviously 
it's I can understand that. 

1140
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:49,760
Yeah. 
So back to Hamish in his nine 

1141
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:52,600
seconds. 
Apparently he was a bit of a 

1142
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:54,200
character. 
Hamish Irvine, I've heard. 

1143
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:56,680
Yeah, it was a nice team, 
Hamish, his team. 

1144
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,760
It's one of those ones that was 
always friendly Labour basically

1145
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:01,800
having a, you know, having a 
blast. 

1146
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:04,120
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, they were never going to 

1147
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:06,240
get big results, but he was 
enjoying himself. 

1148
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:09,440
That's not a true reflection on 
the lap time of the of the car. 

1149
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:13,960
And he for him to get there that
last minute, it was, yeah, you'd

1150
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:16,360
have to say lap time throughout 
the season, I think. 

1151
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:17,800
Good. 
That was just literally just get

1152
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:20,640
the car on the grid. 
Just just get it on the grid. 

1153
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:36,160
Wasn't it for him at round one? 
It's now time for our question 

1154
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:37,280
games. 
The producer, Dan. 

1155
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:40,760
I'll bring you in for the first 
time in series five to ask what 

1156
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:43,400
question have you got for us 
this week? 

1157
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:49,480
Well, hello everybody. 
Welcome back to another series. 

1158
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:51,880
And these are just as painful as
they've always been. 

1159
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:54,640
So while some things have 
changed, not enough has in the 

1160
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:58,800
eyes of some of our viewers. 
So Johnny Chicarto finished 

1161
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:01,680
fifth three times. 
In 1995. 

1162
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:07,360
He finished twice in race one in
fifth and the other time he 

1163
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:08,920
finished fifth. 
It was in race 2. 

1164
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:12,240
In the first race at the first 
meeting of the season at 

1165
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:13,600
Donington Park, he finished in 
fifth. 

1166
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:17,640
What was the other track that he
finished fifth in first for the 

1167
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:24,680
first race in Snap? 
You are having a laugh, he. 

1168
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:29,480
Finished fifth in Race 1 twice. 
One of them was at the Donington

1169
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:29,880
Park. 
Meeting. 

1170
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:32,080
Where was the other one? 
Where was the other one? 

1171
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:37,280
OK, this is just a complete 
guess because I have no idea. 

1172
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:40,400
Brands Hatch, I'll. 
Go. 

1173
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:42,680
See what was that cinema for 
Brands Hatch? 

1174
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:44,360
Should we go any more for any 
more dental then? 

1175
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,600
I'll go for Silverstone. 
OK, Levi. 

1176
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:52,600
It's all on you, Levi. 
Broxton. 

1177
01:07:56,800 --> 01:08:03,880
And the correct answer is Al 
Clark was the second Branch or 

1178
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:07,280
third Branch meeting sorry, of 
the season where he finished 

1179
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:10,240
fifth in Race 1. 
He retired from Race 2. 

1180
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:14,480
It was Branch at the first round
of the season where he finished 

1181
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:17,160
fifth in the second race of the 
weekend. 

1182
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,520
And that was the best result for
him, wasn't it? 

1183
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:24,319
That's. 
It wasn't actually the best, it 

1184
01:08:24,319 --> 01:08:29,880
was fourth place at. 
Oh, I don't Autumn, don't know. 

1185
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:31,319
No kill. 
No kill, no kill. 

1186
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:34,160
Yeah, I was. 
Killed but it was, but he his 

1187
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:37,399
most regular points finishing 
position was in 5th place and he

1188
01:08:37,399 --> 01:08:39,160
did that three times over the 
course of the season. 

1189
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:40,800
He didn't have a bad season to 
be fair. 

1190
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:43,960
Like like Andrew said earlier, 
the car wasn't great. 

1191
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:47,920
Well, you know he was ahead of 
David Bourbon by one point, so. 

1192
01:08:48,359 --> 01:08:50,880
Yeah. 
Yeah, we actually went to visit 

1193
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:57,120
Waltopher in Bavaria that year 
and they certainly weren't Team 

1194
01:08:57,120 --> 01:09:00,479
Schnitzer. 
No, no, no. 

1195
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:03,960
They certainly weren't Charlie. 
No, no. 

1196
01:09:04,319 --> 01:09:08,160
CC Lamb, who ran Snitzer, was 
one of the great unsung 

1197
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:13,920
characters of the BBCC. 
Yes, Steve Super was seeing his 

1198
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:19,080
praises at brands. 
He was great person, yeah. 

1199
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:25,560
Didn't Jicato race atonement in 
Formula 10? 

1200
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:29,080
I'd like a yeah. 
It it was 84 where he raced for 

1201
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:34,560
Tolman 84 he only finished. 
He actually finished two races, 

1202
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:37,160
one of which he was not 
classified in, but in the United

1203
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:41,720
Grand Prix he finished 9th. 
And no star of Dan Mars question

1204
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:44,680
in stories from Super. 
Tour as as the seasons go on, 

1205
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:46,000
these have to become more 
tenuous. 

1206
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:50,760
Browning. 
At 1990s btcc.com did you get 

1207
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:52,960
the answer right? 
Because if you say yes, we're 

1208
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:59,000
not going to believe you. 
Fingers were crossed that normal

1209
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:02,880
service would be resumed after a
rather dull season open at 

1210
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:07,520
Dorrington Park in 1995. 
As we now know, the rest of the 

1211
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:10,760
season produced one of the 
finest championships in history 

1212
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:14,360
and one that is fondly 
remembered by a lot of people, 

1213
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:18,080
even up until today. 
I'd like to thank Andrew Charman

1214
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:21,160
for joining us once again to 
look back at this race, and we 

1215
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:23,960
hope we'll see you on Stories 
from Super Touring again very 

1216
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:24,680
soon. 
Andrew. 

1217
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:27,320
Yeah, I should look forward to 
it. 

1218
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:30,520
As you well know, I I very much 
enjoyed doing these. 

1219
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:35,320
It was nice to have a very 
extensive reference manual for 

1220
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:37,120
this one. 
Looking back to my first one, my

1221
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:40,920
second issue, Yes, yes, very 
special time. 

1222
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:45,400
And our thanks, as ever go to 
you guys for listening to the 

1223
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:46,960
show. 
And if you enjoyed today's 

1224
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:50,280
episode, please make sure to 
give us a review, five star 

1225
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:54,280
rating and subscribe to the 
podcast feed on your podcast app

1226
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:57,200
of choice. 
In the meantime, we will see you

1227
01:10:57,200 --> 01:10:58,520
next week. 
Goodbye.