1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:17,040 Stories from Super Touring. Hello and welcome to this week's 2 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,680 episode of Stories from Super Touring and what is the final 3 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,160 show of Series 4? So as ever, we thought we would 4 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,720 give you at home the chance to ask the questions and give 5 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,640 answers to those things that you've always wondered about the 6 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,080 Super Touring era of touring car racing. 7 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,440 This week to answer your questions, Alex, Adam and myself 8 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,160 are joined by World Super Bikes and Moto GP commentator Greg 9 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:45,000 Haynes, whose love of my sport all started with Super Touring. 10 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,440 Greg, thanks for joining us again the end of Series 4. 11 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,720 How have you enjoyed it? Thanks Levi, thoroughly enjoyed 12 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,640 it because over the winter I started to go through all the 13 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,400 podcasts. I ended up listening to them 14 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:02,680 almost addictively back-to-back Series 123, literally it could 15 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,599 be two or three a day at one point over the winter. 16 00:01:04,599 --> 00:01:07,480 So it was brilliant and like you say, this is how it all started 17 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:08,800 for me. I've managed to somehow make a 18 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,120 career out of it so far, but if it wasn't from the British 19 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,560 Touring Card Championship, I definitely would not be here 20 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,840 talking to you now. So yeah, I've got the BTC to 21 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:18,640 thank for a hell of a lot, quite frankly. 22 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,080 Fantastic. And as ever, thanks for your 23 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,400 contributions so far in the series and again today. 24 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,440 So you've all been busy sending in your questions or series for 25 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:29,640 us. So let's get into them. 26 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,080 And it gets cracking. So Alex, we've got one for you 27 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,520 to start off with. It's from Aaron Collins. 28 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,560 And he asks why did BMW leave the series at the end of the 29 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,520 1996 season? I can't find any information 30 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,480 anywhere about them leaving and it just seems bizarre 31 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,120 considering the series was getting bigger still every 32 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,880 season at this point. Do you have any answers for Anne 33 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,320 on that one? Yeah, it does seem a little bit 34 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,920 of a bizarre decision from from BMW as as he said, the 35 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,520 championship was growing bigger and bigger. 36 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,000 But I think it was all about priorities and BMW had their 37 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,800 eyes elsewhere. They'd already won the BTCC 38 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:17,000 quite a number of times at the start of the era and Schnitzer 39 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:22,000 was starting to mastermind BM WS GT team with the McLaren F1 car 40 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,120 in 1997. They had done a deal with 41 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:31,160 McLaren for BTCC input in 1996, so there was a very small part 42 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:35,400 of McLaren engineering in that 1996 car. 43 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,200 So yeah, they were, they were cast in their eyes elsewhere. 44 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:42,400 They wanted to go into F1, didn't they? 45 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,360 Which as we know they did with Williams. 46 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,200 They wanted to go into Le Mans, which they did and they went and 47 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:53,920 won in 1999. So BMW basically just thought we 48 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:56,720 need to start going elsewhere. They were already doing Class 2 49 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,960 touring cars in Germany, so they didn't really have much to 50 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:05,200 benefit from by staying in England and and doing the BTCC. 51 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,640 So yeah, it was just about new priorities for the mark. 52 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:14,000 Winning again wouldn't do much for them, whilst winning in Le 53 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,560 Mans and F1 would take them on to newer heights and bigger, 54 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:23,160 bigger, bigger stages. So yeah, it was it was really 55 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,160 about them just looking elsewhere and thinking we fancy 56 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,560 a bit of that now. We've done this, we've done 57 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,360 touring cars. This is the time to move on. 58 00:03:31,640 --> 00:03:33,960 And that's something I guess that they they've always kind of 59 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,200 done BMWI mean they did that at the end of 92 when they pulled 60 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:43,240 out of class class one race and. Yeah, I mean, they, they, they, 61 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,480 they were still doing Super Touring. 62 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,680 They, they, they, they competed in the STW. 63 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,320 But that's a German brand in a German series, isn't it? 64 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,720 Which is much more important than competing in a foreign 65 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,280 championship that you've already proven yourself in several 66 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,120 times. And I don't think it helped 67 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,880 weight penalties were were often moaned about, weren't they? 68 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:08,680 You know, and and it it worsened in 96 with the involvement of 69 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,000 hourly and four wheel drive. So not only did you have rear 70 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,400 wheel drive and front wheel drive arguing, you suddenly 71 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:19,200 added this 4 wheel drive mix into the into the argument. 72 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:25,920 So yeah, I think it was just a mixture of different things that 73 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,440 made them think we're probably going to be better off doing 74 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,760 something elsewhere. Our next question comes from a 75 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,920 friend of the pod, Greg Benton, who joined us earlier in the 76 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,960 series to look back at the 1993 race at Dunton Park. 77 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,640 His question asked, aside from Matt Neal, who do you think was 78 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,040 the best of the Independence throughout the Super Touring 79 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,320 era? So I think this is one we can 80 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,040 all have a stab at answering. Greg, should I come to you 81 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:53,960 first? Independence. 82 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,400 Apart from Matt Neil, he sticks out in your mind. 83 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,200 Hear from 1, Greg to another. That is a tricky question, I 84 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:01,400 think. Well, I'll have to say the one 85 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,320 who came into my mind first of all, and that's Tommy Rushdad, 86 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,200 who won the Independence Cup in 1998. 87 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,360 He did have a brief factory drive, didn't he, in that 88 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,480 Renault Laguna, famously at Silverstone at the end of that 89 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,400 season when Alan Menu had a right a right Paddy, didn't he? 90 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,360 Over the radio. What do you think you're doing? 91 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,480 I think Tommy Rushdad, although there's a few of them. 92 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,840 I'm trying to think though. Obviously Rob Gravett was a top 93 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:25,200 independent at one point. Lee Brooks was a a handy driver 94 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,040 who would have been good to see, I think, in a factory car. 95 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,080 But I'd have to go. Yeah, apart from Matt Neal. 96 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:31,360 I'm going to go for Tommy Rushdad. 97 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,400 Adam coming to you, who would you have in your mind from that 98 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,080 era? Yeah, you got you got Rushdad. 99 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,920 I mean, did one of the KS. That was a privacy opinion time, 100 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,920 James K. That's what that come to my mind 101 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:44,160 initially. James K. 102 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,760 Yeah, for me, Richard, his brother was quick as well. 103 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,080 Yes, yeah, yeah. So The Cave coming to my mind. 104 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,040 But then obviously you've got a lot Rushdad like Greg just said. 105 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:54,080 So Chuck one? Really. 106 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,080 Chris Goodwin. Chris Goodwin. 107 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,080 Have an 8. Chris Goodwin, a very good one. 108 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:01,960 I'm trying to think of like who who went in like a really 109 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,320 particularly old car. You know, Matt Neal would often 110 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,080 have a year old Nissan Rushdad had a year old Laguna. 111 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,720 Did anyone have a stand out performance as an independent in 112 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:12,600 a really old? Chassis. 113 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:14,360 I'm trying. I remember, I remember Jamie 114 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,600 Wall doing well in a very old Cavalier in 97 in a car that was 115 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:20,600 well over two years old at that point. 116 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:22,840 And it was all distributed sort of wrongly under the bonnet. 117 00:06:22,840 --> 00:06:24,360 It wasn't. I remember Charlie Cox did a 118 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,160 feature on the 97 review and on Grandstand and everything was 119 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:28,880 sort of right. That's right. 120 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:30,560 They had the Vauxhall team, They didn't. 121 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,360 They saying, what would you do to this? 122 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:33,680 And he's like, well, that's not quite right. 123 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,320 That's not quite right. Yeah. 124 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,120 And then he's like, now you've got 70 grand. 125 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,880 He's like. Yeah, yeah. 126 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,320 But yeah, they're looking through some of the some of the 127 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:45,960 early words. Chris Goodwin I always thought 128 00:06:46,280 --> 00:06:48,360 deserved a bit more, deserved a chance. 129 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:50,800 Richard Kaye was lightningly quick that year. 130 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:52,760 He went toe to toe with Lee Brooks. 131 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:58,080 Didn't didn't win. I was like Blair in 99 as well. 132 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,800 I thought he did rather well, you know, And now that was in a 133 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,600 96 Vectra. OK. 134 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,080 So that's Mark. That's Mark Blair. 135 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:10,480 Yeah, Three-year, three-year old car at that point, he had one of 136 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:16,480 the 96 RML Cavaliers and Vectors and did particularly well, I 137 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:17,280 thought. Yeah. 138 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,800 So you had some talent there. You had some really big, big. 139 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,880 Talent. Another 1 from 99 would have 140 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,600 been Will Hoyer as well, wouldn't it? 141 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:26,440 Yes, yeah. And he? 142 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,160 Came back, I know you don't think him as a conventional no 143 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,440 independent driver from the era. I guess same kind of falls for 144 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,760 when you think Rod Rabbit, you don't think of him alongside the 145 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,600 typical independence era, but for a lot of the time he was, 146 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,160 wasn't he as well and. Yeah. 147 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,160 On an independent title. And of course, that also means 148 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,880 David Leslie was an independent driver when he took over from. 149 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,760 Colin Blair. In the Pro Motorsport Premier in 150 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:52,440 2000. Although of course these guys 151 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:53,960 had had factory drivers, haven't they? 152 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,000 Yeah, but who else was the early night? 153 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:01,280 I mean, you had Hamish, Irvine, Ian, Ian, Ashley, there's quite 154 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,240 a few in the early 90s weren't. They Nigel Albon, of course you 155 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,320 have. And Nigel, Nigel Smith as well, 156 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:07,600 for that matter. Nigel Smith. 157 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,840 That would have been a good, but I'm going to have to get rushed 158 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:11,960 out I think. Yeah, I think that's a fair one. 159 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,080 Yeah, he was probably he's seen or seen like the, you know, 160 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,040 alongside Matt Nil, the the closest to factory drivers. 161 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,480 Yeah, and. Especially later on. 162 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,840 Well, he went on, didn't he? He went on to have a career in 163 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,480 touring cars from that. So yeah. 164 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,480 Do we know why he didn't get a factory drive with someone in 165 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,120 99? Is it just because a lot of the 166 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,840 manufacturers pulled out? Yeah, lack of space, I guess. 167 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:35,919 Lack of. Drive, Really. 168 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,240 It is a shame. And it's also making this more 169 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,640 difficult to answer. The fact Matt Neil did do so 170 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,520 well. Yeah, isn't it? 171 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,880 You know, it makes it, it makes some of the other independents 172 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,040 less memorable than there perhaps would be otherwise. 173 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,280 Adam, one for you here. Now Tom Phillips has asked why 174 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,800 were the vast majority of Grand Prix drivers or ex Grand Prix 175 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,480 drivers so poor in the series in this period? 176 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,720 So we're talking Janny Moore, Badeli Jean Kristoff Bullion, 177 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,480 Derek Warwick, Jonathan Palmer, etcetera. 178 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,480 And why was Tarquini the exception to the rule and the 179 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,600 only one to really shine? I don't know why Tarquini was 180 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,560 the only one to shine, but Jen, as a general rule, you just look 181 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:23,400 at it, the disciplines are so different. 182 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,880 You know, you look at obviously Rydell came into it did really 183 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:30,240 well. His background was single 184 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,320 seaters. Calvin Burt, he came and did a 185 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,080 bit, his background was single seaters. 186 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:40,480 So it's one of those paths that as a youngster when you go from 187 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,080 karting you either choose single seaters or or you go tin tops. 188 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,600 Obviously you know, most want to go single seaters. 189 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,800 Others very rarely start their career is as a tin time driver 190 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,880 through probably fiestas back then and obviously then it was 191 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:56,080 to change the Clio's and what have you. 192 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,800 So you go one way or the other and the only thing I could put 193 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,000 it down to is the discipline is just completely different. 194 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,560 You know, you've gone from being absolutely, your backside's on 195 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:08,760 the floor, loads of downforce, loads of grip, loads of power, 196 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,320 speed, lighter cars and all of a sudden you're in a bigger car 197 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,440 that handles in a completely different way. 198 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,520 You've gone from rear wheel drive to front wheel drive, the 199 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,760 engines, the other end of the car, you sat in a different 200 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,480 position. It's just so many different 201 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,320 things and that's the only thing you can really put it down to it 202 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:26,920 really. And but obviously Taco when he 203 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,480 came in and completely an Audi, but I think his career was 204 00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:32,160 predominantly, you know, single seats Formula One. 205 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,520 But then he had a very long career in touring cars and was 206 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,560 very successful. I think just like Ryder, you 207 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:41,440 know, But most of them that you'll find that that not 208 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,480 necessarily come from Formula One, but most of the drivers 209 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,560 that were on that grid at some point came from single seater. 210 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:49,040 But obviously you've highlighted the fact that we're talking 211 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,560 Formula One drivers here. But yeah, I think it's just 212 00:10:51,560 --> 00:10:53,600 coming from something so different. 213 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,120 It's hard to get the head round, really. 214 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,160 Yeah. Greg coming to you now. 215 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,640 Rolling Duty Hill has written in to say top work on series 4. 216 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,400 Thoroughly enjoyed every episode. 217 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,880 Amazing that you managed to get James Thompson on for a pod. 218 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,600 Which driver slash drivers would you have liked to see in period 219 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,320 race in the championship that never did? 220 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,440 That's such a difficult question, isn't it? 221 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,880 I saw that on the script when I had a quick sneak peek a few 222 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,560 minutes ago. And it's a really tricky 223 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:23,640 question. Alain Prost is somebody whose 224 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,520 name has come up in previous episodes of this show who I 225 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,920 didn't know about until I listened to this podcast. 226 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,520 So thank you for that. But. 227 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,920 I I think from a bit of inside info I've got is that was more 228 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,960 of APR. Right, so you don't think it was 229 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,960 ever a realistic possibility? I think it's more of APR 230 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,440 Renault. Yeah, it may work on. 231 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:44,840 I mean, it would have been great. 232 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,440 If it had happened. And I I think he'd have done it 233 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:48,520 right at it as well, to be honest. 234 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,400 Yeah. Are we talking though drivers 235 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,880 who were a realistic possibility, who didn't get 236 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,520 there or anyone? Because then you could say, you 237 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,920 know, would have been great to see Mika Hakkinen in the year or 238 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,160 whoever. But yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe 239 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:03,760 Colin McRae. I know who that's someone who 240 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:05,880 gets a lot of feed. We get a lot of feedback on the 241 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,040 social media, don't we, about Colin after his very 242 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:13,920 entertaining and dramatic Knockout 92 before he went on to 243 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:15,680 become World Rally Champion in the Subaru. 244 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,960 You know, there's other top touring car drivers who did some 245 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,480 of the Tokyo shootouts. I mean, Hana, people like that. 246 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,200 You could say it would have been nice to see maybe Mueller come a 247 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,800 bit sooner. Fabrizio Giovannardi, actually, 248 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,360 that's got to be the answer, hasn't it? 249 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:29,840 How could it not be? It's got to. 250 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,200 Be 98. So that would have been, that 251 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,960 was what I was about to say, that Alfa Romeo 98 programme 252 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,600 with Lorini and Giovannardi, that would have been great to 253 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:39,680 see. Yeah, that's true. 254 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,360 And for the whole thing to come together because Giovannardi is 255 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:47,080 one of, if not the number one touring car driver across the 256 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,200 whole of Tory car racing ever. That's obviously what he was, a 257 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,760 class act for Rich Class act, yeah. 258 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,120 I mean, he was, he made a name for himself in in Peugeot, 259 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:57,360 didn't he? As well as Alfred Mayes. 260 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,280 Yeah, with Gary Ailes. Of course, as Gary said in our 261 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,800 episode earlier in the series, Italian champion. 262 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:05,720 It's got to be Giovinardi, hasn't it? 263 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,520 It's got to be for Rich Sergiovinardi. 264 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,680 The other one that was linked with the Mercedes drive in 93 265 00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:12,840 was Schneider Bern Schneider. That would have been cool. 266 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:13,720 That had been. Yeah. 267 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,480 And he was. He was dominant in DTM, wasn't 268 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:17,640 he? That would have been called the 269 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:18,160 sea as well. I. 270 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:19,560 Mean, yeah, that's true. Who else? 271 00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:22,240 Like Dirk Muller, people like that perhaps, who did well in on 272 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,360 the continent, who never came to Britain at all. 273 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:26,800 Hans Duck. Klass, Ludwig. 274 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:28,840 Were. Like that, they were like, you 275 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:30,720 know, great names weren't. They OK? 276 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,520 He did. He did quite a bit in DTM, 277 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:33,320 didn't he? Yeah. 278 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,000 I'm interested, you know, I think Giovinardi would have, you 279 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,240 know, done, but I mean, it would have probably be more a car 280 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,000 issue. I'm guessing in 98 success with 281 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,640 him. But I'd have been interested to 282 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,840 see how Schneider would have adapted to because he generally 283 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:50,760 was more with a client. You know, he was much more 284 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,800 successful in Class 1 racing and what became the modern DTM was 285 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,960 kind of a, a spin off of, of Class 1 racing that I'd like to 286 00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:02,720 have seen how he'd done in, in A2 litre Super Tour in Carlo, 287 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,880 slightly different. Yeah, front going from rear 288 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,400 wheel drive to front wheel drive as well. 289 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,120 Yeah. So one, I've been an easier 290 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:11,880 transition as well, but you'd naturally think, obviously 291 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:13,800 you're going to think touring cars, touring cars are the same, 292 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,240 very different cars. It would also be it would also 293 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,760 be interesting if we'd seen a few more motorbike races make 294 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,520 the change, the transition, because Johnny Chicotto did that 295 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,200 successfully. Aaron Slights actually had a 296 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,320 pretty strong run, didn't he? Early 2000. 297 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,640 Come over earlier, yeah. Exactly, and he was a keen car 298 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,160 racer and the good thing, as you know, Adam was a fellow big bike 299 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,880 fan. The bike races feel so over 300 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:38,320 protecting, whether in the touring car. 301 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,720 Well, but look, look at Rusty, you know, he's a family man now 302 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,520 how obviously he realizes the danger of of motorbikes. 303 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,280 He's, you know, he's done with that now as as they do get to 304 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,760 that point and he's achieved all that he could ever have achieved 305 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,600 of. And now he's out winning and 306 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,880 competing, doing racing BMWs in the GT championship. 307 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:55,120 So he's obviously loving life and. 308 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,080 And it would be nice, as we, as we said in last week's show, if 309 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,520 you could have one of the current F1 drivers. 310 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,080 We mentioned Steve Ryder last week. 311 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,120 He's desperately what, hoping someone like a Hamilton comes 312 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:06,520 across. The problem is now the money's 313 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,240 not in the series like it was, you know, in the 90s is it? 314 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,960 But no, for that period we've we can't not say for Brit so 315 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,880 juvenile, can we? To to slightly spin off that 316 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:22,440 question, Greg, then if you had to choose a motorcycle figure 317 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,000 from the 90s, motorcycle race from the 90s to have raced, who 318 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,200 would it have been? Oh, I think because it's the 319 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:30,720 British Touring Card Championship, it should be 320 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,440 someone British. So you'd probably have to say 321 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:33,680 Carl Fogarty, wouldn't you, Carl? 322 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,360 Yeah, Carl, I think you say that. 323 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,680 Carl is also enough of a lunatic to have a real go in and I think 324 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,440 you'll buy me saying that have a go in in the British Touring Car 325 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,080 Championship. Then again, Mick Doohan, five 326 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:50,160 time 500CC world champion back-to-back from 94 to 98. 327 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:52,960 He's a big car man and his son Jack do. 328 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,640 And of course he's now racing. Yeah, so that would have been 329 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,560 quite interesting. Yeah, he's a car, Poggaty. 330 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:00,880 Yeah, he was stepping in for a oh, car, Monty. 331 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,400 Foggy. Foggy was sniffing around at 332 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,000 Alton Park in 1998 against with Peugeot. 333 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:08,600 Really. Yes. 334 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:09,280 Yeah. Interesting. 335 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:14,840 Yes, that's interesting. He was a guest of Micklinford's 336 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,880 and there were rumours at the time that he might give it a go, 337 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:19,760 but oh. There you go. 338 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,760 Oh, there you go, and. So he's on the, I'm sure he's on 339 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,160 the coverage, the second Alton Park. 340 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,240 OK meeting, yes I did Coxy interview him on the grid. 341 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,080 Yes, yes, I believe he. Did I'd forgotten about that, 342 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,120 but you've just also our colleague at Eurosport, Shane 343 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,200 Shaky Burn, who's six time produced Super 8 champion, had a 344 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,520 very, very bad career ending accident at Snetterton testing 345 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,280 in 2018. And he was actually testing with 346 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,080 team hard to perhaps race in the BCCC. 347 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,160 But the risk is if he has another accident he could cause 348 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,440 serious, yeah, life changing injuries. 349 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:56,480 So it was wasn't going to happen. 350 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,160 But I know Shaky was thinking about it. 351 00:16:58,600 --> 00:16:59,800 Yeah. And that was only a few years 352 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,760 back. Wow, yeah. 353 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:03,720 I think he did a test with them at Brandon's Hutch. 354 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:10,280 I think it was OK. Alex got a question here from 355 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:14,440 Fraser Thorburn, who asks is it true that Mercedes-Benz were 356 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,079 considering a work sentry at some point? 357 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,440 I've heard rumours that they were. 358 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:27,359 Yes, it is true. In 1993, Pro Drive were linked 359 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:34,120 with running 2C classes for the second-half of 93 for a full 360 00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:38,560 assault on the 1994 championship and they'd be driven by Bern 361 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:43,160 Schneider and Tim Segdon. Tim Segdon being a Pro Dr. 362 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,080 contracted driver at the time. Now there's not very much else 363 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,800 known about this story. However, I can tell you that we 364 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,920 have been in touch with Tim Segdon and we are hoping that he 365 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,920 will come on the pod very soon, so maybe he will be able to tell 366 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,040 us more about it. Would have been very interesting 367 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:06,040 to see what a Mercedes deal would have looked like. 368 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,280 I do have a mock up of the car somewhere. 369 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,960 I shall try and put it out on our socials at some point. 370 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:20,760 And it was in a it was in a silver livery with with mobile 371 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,600 Mobile One sponsorship. It was a interesting looking 372 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:25,560 car. It would have been great 373 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,000 wouldn't it? Another addition to the 93 grid 374 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,720 and obviously the 94 grid. But yeah, it never came off. 375 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,760 Mercedes instead decided they want to carry on concentrating 376 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,920 on Class 1 racing because that's where they felt they would 377 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:40,720 benefit more for their marketing. 378 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,920 So yeah, it's assume it never happened. 379 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,920 We hope that in the next series we'll be able to tell you a 380 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,920 little bit more about it. Next up and Matt James has 381 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,520 written in saying Hi guys, great podcast. 382 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,280 My question is, would the era have benefited from success 383 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,760 Ballast being introduced earlier than it was in the year 2000? 384 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:04,120 I personally prefer the more pure film of racing, but it 385 00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:06,800 would have been interesting to have seen the field closer 386 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:12,760 especially in 1997 and 1999. Adam, as someone that raced 387 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,560 success ballast in touring cars, what what do you think? 388 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,600 Would you think it would have added to the series had it been 389 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,200 introduced earlier in period? Yeah, of course. 390 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,200 I think, you know, the likes of, you know, like we spoke in 391 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,480 previous podcasts about like the dominance of ILO or the 392 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,880 dominance of venue and things like that. 393 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,440 I think, you know, This is why the balanced success battlers 394 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,760 came in to, to stop the dominance, you know, So yeah, it 395 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,240 definitely would have had an impact. 396 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:42,480 It's there to to exactly do that, slow them down and, and 397 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,400 let the others catch up ready or give them an opportunity just to 398 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,440 make the the racing fair. Because nobody wants to see 399 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,720 somebody out in the front, you know, 10 seconds in the lead 400 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,600 every week. And which I know rarely happened 401 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,240 within touring cars and there's always something going on. 402 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,880 But yeah, success balance was introduced for that very reason. 403 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,280 As a driver, as a team, no, you don't want to. 404 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:06,440 But as a fan, we all want to. I hated success balance I was. 405 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,240 Waiting for that, but that's. Just slowing down your face 406 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,600 every It's probably. No, no, no, no. 407 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:18,960 I just, I, I liked touring cars as pure as possible, and if that 408 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,320 meant Alan Menu winning 12 races in a Renault Laguna, so be it 409 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:27,560 Yeah, I the. Showcase was the biggest fashion 410 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,560 showcases, the work and the F and everything completely of 411 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,240 what they've all done and they so that's why the teams don't 412 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,440 like it. And I I agree with you in terms 413 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,000 of, yes, great, they've done the best job. 414 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,320 They've done all the pole positions, all the race wins. 415 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,080 They deserve it because they've done the best job. 416 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,360 Yeah, I agree, it does help. It does help. 417 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:47,720 But obviously it's helped. Alan Gow is obviously thinking 418 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,600 from a fans perspective. Yeah. 419 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,160 And again, it's just that debate, isn't it TV? 420 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,160 For the team, yeah. No, I, I, I get, I get the, I 421 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:01,120 get the argument for it and I get why most fans are for it. 422 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:06,920 But yeah, it just, it just never, I was never won for that. 423 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,640 Sort of it's the same. It got to a point a couple of 424 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,680 years ago in the BTCC. Again, I don't follow it 425 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,440 massively now, but it got to a point where I think they had 16 426 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,120 different winners out of 30 races or something like that. 427 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:20,720 That's too many. That's too many. 428 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,480 And that devalues the victories then, because there are some 429 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,200 drivers who should have won touring car races over the years 430 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,760 but never got the chance to because of the machinery they 431 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,400 were in. And then you've got you've got 432 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,680 weight, ballast, penalties and then forced tires, you know, or 433 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,360 you've got to run this really soft tire that's quick for five 434 00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:42,920 laps but then falls apart for the next 10. 435 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,200 You can't win a race with a tire like that. 436 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,760 Yeah, plus plus with the old EC US and stuff and having control 437 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,480 over them and you know who's got what power where and it's all to 438 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,240 make it as close as possible. So yeah, as a team, as a as a 439 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,880 driver, absolutely not. Yeah, from a TV perspective. 440 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:02,560 Oh, gold, that yeah. That's and that because that's 441 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,080 where the, that's where the, the, the money's coming from. 442 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,120 So unfortunately it's just the way that is. 443 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,880 I feel like I feel like it's kind of as you say as well that 444 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:15,440 TV element of it though is it's kind of reflective of where I 445 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,880 think if it had been introduced earlier, the series wasn't at 446 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,280 that point where it kind of had that established viewer base of 447 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,840 34 million that would TuneIn on grandstand every week. 448 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:26,560 It was on to watch it. Where is now? 449 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:30,400 You kind of need it because you want people to switch it on and, 450 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,120 you know, switched it on. Going through the TV, guys see 451 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:37,120 it and all they hear is shout in action, cars getting past F 452 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:39,240 right and centre and that's got to be the hook now. 453 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,120 I think the the only way to to eradicate it and not have 454 00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:45,960 success ballast, and I've said this in previous episodes, is 455 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,840 make it have it A1, make championship. 456 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,240 Just have it a complete one make championship. 457 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,560 Everyone's got the same car, same tyres, same amount of 458 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,440 tyres. Just make it a complete one. 459 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,960 Make championship. Yeah, I, I. 460 00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:02,120 Don't worry about the success ballast then. 461 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,160 I agree and disagree with different things you all said 462 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,280 there. I don't think I'd go for the One 463 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,240 Mate championship because I think part of the appeal of the 464 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,880 BTCC, particularly there was the fact you did have all these 465 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,360 different cars. I think, as John Cleland said, 466 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:15,240 a. Couple of I think I think about 467 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:16,720 that yeah. I wouldn't I wouldn't change it 468 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,400 for that for the Super Touring era. 469 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,800 I'm thinking like now I. See. 470 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,240 As as things stand now, because none of us are really motivated 471 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,880 by what we see or what we hear or the way touring cars is at 472 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,160 the minute, Make it a championship and that'll bring 473 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:32,560 your fans back. That'll bring some 474 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,720 entertainment, new fans, new kids watching it. 475 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,240 But yeah, Super Touring here. I love the fact that it was all 476 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,640 different manufacturers, different teams, Williams, RML, 477 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,200 you know, TWR, they're all going at it. 478 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:44,880 And a lot of wouldn't change any of that. 479 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,960 But yeah, you're just trying to fix an issue now. 480 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,880 Or if it's not an issue, but if you wanted to make it more 481 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,520 interesting than what it is now, make it a one way championship. 482 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,000 Yeah, because one of the reasons as, as Cleddon said a couple of 483 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,320 weeks ago was that like you've sort of just alluded to Adam, 484 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,080 they don't really now look like the road going cars, do they? 485 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,400 Whereas in the Super Touring era they did, it did look like a 486 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,080 Monday or Laguna or Vectra or whatever. 487 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,160 That's it. Like you look at a Primera, like 488 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,560 you look at me in the flesh then nothing like the road car. 489 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,360 When I when I'm on the road now and see one of those models of 490 00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:18,600 those cars, I still get excited because I'm thinking of the 491 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,880 touring car version and like our good friend Alex Clark. 492 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,920 And I think it's time, considering this is the final 493 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,760 episode of the series, once commentated on a crashed 494 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,000 Vauxhall Cavalier during a school trip on the coach. 495 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,320 And I'm really glad I've just remembered that because I nearly 496 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,880 forgot to mention it. I'll come back to what I was 497 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,160 going to say. Alex, can you just talk us 498 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:43,080 through that? I might have got hold off when I 499 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:49,360 was in year five in school for being on on a coach trip 500 00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:54,440 somewhere for a school trip and we got delayed because there was 501 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,160 a a pretty serious collision on the motorway. 502 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,560 And it it happened to be a Vauxhall Cavalier that was 503 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,640 unfortunately involved in the collision. 504 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,400 And I might have started shouting it's clan and Oh my 505 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,400 goodness. On the couch. 506 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,640 On the couch with all my. Advisors. 507 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:14,840 Yes. Ladies around. 508 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,760 And yeah, I did get a bit of a rollicking for that one. 509 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,760 Oh, she don't be, don't, don't do that. 510 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,840 It's someone could be seriously hurt in that. 511 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:26,920 Yeah. Let's hope they weren't, by the 512 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,680 way. No, I was going to say as well, 513 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,480 but I'm glad we got that in, though. 514 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:31,960 That's not being edited out, Kyle. 515 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,880 I know you've. Got the power to do so. 516 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,800 But no, I was going to say as well. 517 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,520 I mean, one thing Alan Gow does say even now is that if you do 518 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,000 look at the Super Touring here and the way that it was, we we 519 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,600 did get dominant cars. We often had more seasons than 520 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,720 not. There was one dominant car in 521 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,920 team. But the manufacturers were 522 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,200 involved and that's why, yeah, they they were clever, clever 523 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:54,920 people. So that would lend itself 524 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,160 towards needing success ballast, although I would just say 525 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,040 because we didn't have as many live races, they only started in 526 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,520 97 and even then it was just a few per year. 527 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,600 They didn't need the success ballast as much because they 528 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:11,040 could do some clever stuff with the editing of those amazing PHP 529 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,680 BBC grandstand highlights. So it didn't really matter as 530 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:14,920 much. But the fact of the matter is 531 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,440 some of those races look very, very close and they're actually 532 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,160 dominated by Winklehark or Tarquini or Aiello or whoever it 533 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:22,600 was menu depending on the season. 534 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,080 Peter and the Audi ran away with it. 535 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,240 Many. Times watching Verstappen, isn't 536 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:27,880 it the the camera's not on them at the front? 537 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,200 Yeah, they're showing you the stuff that we're exactly what's 538 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,600 going on. Exactly. 539 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,520 So when you watch the seven or eight minute highlight that's 540 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,640 put up by F1 on YouTube now, you know, it doesn't really give 541 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,680 you, well, you still get the impression of the dominance, but 542 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,840 not as much as you would if you watched the full race, I'm sure. 543 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,280 So I, I don't know, we only had success ballast for one season, 544 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:49,880 didn't we? Ultimately of the Super Touring 545 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,600 era, which was the 2000. That I yes, yeah. 546 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,760 And it was pretty. It was pretty. 547 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,840 I think if you if you had a maximum of a third place, you 548 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,560 got 20 kilos, maximum of a second place you got 30 kilos 549 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,680 and 4:40 for any race victory. Yes. 550 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,640 Was it based on have I got this wrong or was it based on 551 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,840 championship position when you came into the meeting and then 552 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,680 race 1 results for the second race, is that right? 553 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:13,520 Right. That's right. 554 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,360 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And of course, they were kind of 555 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:17,960 forced to do that work, though the fact we were down to only 556 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,240 three factory teams or three factory entrance. 557 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,480 Because it's a different thing. Yeah, four. 558 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,360 I mean, otherwise you might you might have found that Ford would 559 00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:29,120 have just wiped the floor. So yeah, it might have been 560 00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:30,800 necessary. Which which they did anyway, 561 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,440 despite the success balance, didn't they? 562 00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,800 But no, it it definitely shook up some results in 2000 though. 563 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,880 So it did work, didn't it, from that point of view. 564 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,960 Greg, a question for you next. Ian Wilson has asked which 565 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,280 independent driver from the era would you have liked to have 566 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,760 seen given the chance in a works machine? 567 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,200 I think you've already kind of touched on who your choice would 568 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,080 be earlier when we were discussing our favorite 569 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,120 independent drivers from the era aside from Matt Neil, but give 570 00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:03,840 you the chance to to answer that one. 571 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,560 Which independent driver from the era would I like to have 572 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:07,920 seen? Do we not have this question 573 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,040 before? When I said. 574 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:16,120 Yeah, that one was. No, it was who is the best? 575 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,600 Matt Neil. But I think you, but you did go 576 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,920 into it in terms of people who might have seen maybe have a 577 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,640 chance, you know? So I've answered the this 578 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,440 question before having another accident idiot because I don't 579 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,520 know what else I can say to that because it would be the. 580 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,880 Same for me. I would love to have seen 581 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,920 Richard Kay. I think he deserved. 582 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:42,800 I think he went so well in that Cavalier in 96. 583 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,680 It was an interesting battle with Lee Brooks in the Toyota, 584 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,480 which was a less competitive car. 585 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,120 And it was almost here in the Tortoise race because Brooks 586 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,760 would have the consistency racket points. 587 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,040 Whereas Richard Kay was pretty much win or bust, literally 588 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,920 broke his leg at some point that season and still raced. 589 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,880 So I remember him climbing in the podium. 590 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,520 I think it was at Donnington in a cast Nick. 591 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,560 Where did he break his leg? Can you remember? 592 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,480 I can't remember, no, can't remember offhand and I. 593 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,080 Remember him having? I don't think he broke his leg, 594 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,200 but I remember him having a massive crash at Alton Park at 595 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,040 1:00. Point Yeah, that wasn't the And 596 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,000 of course it was a crash that ended his season in the finale 597 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,920 because he crashed in the morning warm up, which meant he 598 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:37,720 couldn't race so Lee Brooks won the title in his Toyota. 599 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,200 Ah. Yes, and I run it. 600 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,600 Of course, Lee Brooks would go on to have a big crash in the 601 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,480 finale. Yes, in 97. 602 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:45,760 Yeah, in his Peugeot. Yeah, Ireland. 603 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,600 I was a nasty one, that one, actually. 604 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,920 I remember that. Yeah, he got airborne over the 605 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:50,680 curb. Yeah, the island. 606 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,520 She came, didn't he? There was, yeah, there was a 607 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,040 couple of big shunts there, right right down. 608 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,840 Had a big one in 98. Yeah, but another one I've 609 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,760 already mentioned that Chris Goodwin it was he was even 610 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,080 though the quick talent it would have been good to see him in a 611 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,000 in a in a works car give my. Also also of course Matt Neil 612 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,840 because he offered to drive the 99 Works Nissan for free. 613 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,960 Once really had gone and they ended up paying Lauren, I had 614 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,880 what was it, 700 or 7? 100 grand, Yeah. 700 grand, 615 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,520 which has got to be in the top three of highest paid drivers. 616 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,200 I nearly said this in last week's show, actually, I forgot 617 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:25,480 to say, so I'm glad I've thought of that. 618 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,920 He missed out on topping it up by another 250 though, didn't 619 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,680 he? Yes, he did a couple of times, 620 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,360 yeah. He did, Really, Yeah. 621 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,520 Do you reckon Ielo is the highest paid driver for a single 622 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,200 season? I I guess the four drivers of 623 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,520 2000 were not far off, but I would say that is, isn't it? 624 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,680 For a single season one and go yeah, I would say so. 625 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,920 Yeah, Reid wasn't far behind and nor was Ireland, but yeah, 700 626 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,360 Ki think it's the highest I've heard. 627 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,720 Because if he hadn't have let, who did let through at Brands? 628 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,600 If he hadn't, if he defended that, he'd have done the race 629 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,840 and then he'd have got his 200. And 50, he was bound to have a 630 00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,200 chance. He was bound to have a 631 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:00,720 championship bonus as well, wasn't he? 632 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,560 Let's be honest, with race win bonus he would have had a 633 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,040 Goodyear. No wonder he's. 634 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,360 No wonder he retired and became ADJ. 635 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,240 I think Adam Jones was on similar money in 2008 actually. 636 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:16,960 Oh what? 750 Quids. 637 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,600 It's one for us all. Next on this question, which is 638 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,560 your favorite commentary line up? 639 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,600 Oh, let Alex go first because I know what his is and it's. 640 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,840 No, yes, yeah. It is controversial because most 641 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,080 people will answer Murray to this and I won't. 642 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,200 And for me it's Charlie Cox and John Watson. 643 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,840 Not that I didn't appreciate Murray, not that I didn't rape 644 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,800 Murray. Murray was brilliant. 645 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:52,160 But for the style of racing, for the, the, the the banter, the 646 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,480 chemistry between them, the fact that Cox was good for one liners 647 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:01,440 and I loved what he's really, really harsh put downs. 648 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,440 I just, I just don't think you can beat those two for, for for 649 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,280 the style of racing. That is somebody said the other 650 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,120 day I saw, why didn't they, why didn't they have that for F1? 651 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,960 It's like it wouldn't work for F1, that style of commentary. 652 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,320 Cox and Watty wouldn't have worked what he was a great F1 653 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:22,120 commentator, but he did. There was a different style to 654 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,480 his F1 commentary than his touring car commentary. 655 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,400 And, and of course, no one else would have called Tim Harvey 656 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:34,280 rude boy Tim so. Yeah, that the, the only thing I 657 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,000 disagreed with with Watty when he came on the show a few weeks 658 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,600 back was the fact he said you can't have A1 commentator 659 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,400 broadcast. Because Murray proved time and 660 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,120 time again. Murray's done it, yeah. 661 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:45,520 Exactly. You can. 662 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,160 You can. Yeah, of course you can. 663 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,520 Obviously Watty prefers to and I understand where he's coming 664 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,000 from and you get that banter that you can't get with one. 665 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,880 But what Murray was so good at was engaging the audience and 666 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,200 bringing in a new audience and making a few little deliberate 667 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,240 mistakes in the recorded highlights, knowing it wasn't 668 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,040 live and knowing it wasn't correct to make it more natural. 669 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,600 Because let's remember, most of those races were recording 670 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,400 highlights in a studio. All pop. 671 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,440 Together, he'd have already known the results. 672 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:12,520 He would have already known the results. 673 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,560 Oh, there's there's been a big shunt between Cleland and Super 674 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,240 for the title I've got no. Sound like it's just happened, 675 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,600 couldn't they exactly it always make it always make it sound 676 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,640 like it just happened. But Steve Ryder is in my head as 677 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,200 well. Yes for I know we did like the 678 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,680 highlights and grandson stuff but just his voice. 679 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,480 Yeah, as an anchor. As an anchor, he's superb. 680 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,560 And again, growing up as a kid, I was in the background, I was 681 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,120 around my grandparents house and then it was on in the on a 682 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:38,960 Saturday and I could hear it on Stratton. 683 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,240 It's just his voice. So for me to race in the era 684 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,480 that I did it in for Steve to then come and be involved in it 685 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,400 and to talk to him. And like that blew my mind. 686 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,240 The fact that I've grown up as a kid listening to him and and 687 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,360 sort of him as a bit of a, you know, the the main guy at the 688 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,120 time is, you know, that voice will never will never leave me 689 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,360 all these years on. So to to be interviewed by him 690 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:06,000 when I've then gone into, you know, just like a box ticking 691 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,520 next. I was really just unbelievable 692 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:08,800 brilliant. Never thought it'd ever happen. 693 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,600 And yeah, I still think now I think it'll be won't be the same 694 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,080 not having him within the championship now. 695 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,159 I'm sure because it's just one of those voices. 696 00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:20,480 It's just you just associated like he did the route rallying 697 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:21,480 as well, didn't he? That's true. 698 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,840 And Steve Slater. Steve Slater was great. 699 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,000 He served with Murray and Barry, of course. 700 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,719 Barry. Yeah, Barry did a great job. 701 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,280 One thing that was the entertainment of the the touring 702 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:31,400 cars. You know, you've got stuff to 703 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,120 talk about. You know, you're not trying to 704 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,480 think of anything because I don't know about you, Greg. 705 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,080 Obviously I know the bikes are really entertaining, but, you 706 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,040 know, it's got to be your worst nightmare to have to comment out 707 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,719 on something really boring. Yeah, well, because that's 708 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,239 because that'll just make your job harder. 709 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,000 So I suppose you're thankful that you're with the bikes. 710 00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:49,199 To be honest. There's always something 711 00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:50,400 happening, isn't there? Yeah. 712 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,679 And I did some commentaries recently for TNT Sports on Motor 713 00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:57,600 GP classes at Mudgello and before that Barcelona and they 714 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,000 were practice sessions primarily and they're 40 or 45 minute 715 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,400 sessions and that's a lot more demanding than A7 lap race 716 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,200 because the race almost takes care of itself. 717 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,080 I think another thing that was brilliant about the 90s as well 718 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,160 is that because we didn't have as many channels, we only had 719 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,040 the BBCITV. Channel Four started in 82, 720 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:16,640 Channel 5 didn't start too much later. 721 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,720 Sport had its own commentator, didn't it? 722 00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:21,200 Primarily. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 723 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,400 So and that gave it such identity and the BBC theme 724 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,920 tunes, the snooker, the golf, the the chain for F1. 725 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:29,600 Yeah. So you have Murray on 726 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,320 Motorsports. Obviously there's a few others, 727 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,440 but Murray you had I think. You hear his voice, you know 728 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,000 it's something you've got a passion for. 729 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,400 And these people were more household names than a lot of 730 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,080 the competitors in the sports. Whispering Ted Lowe on the 731 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,280 snooker, Yeah. Bill McLaren on rugby. 732 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,320 Bill McLaren, John. Mobson on football? 733 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:46,520 Yeah. Ryan Moore? 734 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,800 Yeah. Sid Wardell on the darts. 735 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,360 I mean the list is endless. Alex, one for you now Chris 736 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,560 Phillips has got in touch to say that Remus for 1996 whether Andy 737 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,560 Rouse would prepare a team of privately run Ford Mondeo's with 738 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,800 Tiff Nadal suggested as a driver with the four-cylinder engine, 739 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,000 would the Andy Rouse cars have been faster than the factory 740 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,600 cars that season, adding that he thinks they would have been. 741 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:15,880 What are your thoughts on that one? 742 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,600 I think Andy Rouse prepared snails would have been quicker 743 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,520 than the 4th Mondeo works team of 1996 to be quite honest with 744 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,360 you. I mean the the the big Achilles 745 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,800 heel for Rouse at the time was the fact that it was a mandated 746 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,480 thing that the engine had to be the V6 block. 747 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,480 Whereas it was well known that Andy thought that it would be 748 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,880 much quicker with the car would be a lot quicker and a lot more 749 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,240 balanced to run a 4 cylinder engine, which obviously he lost 750 00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:49,160 that battle and he lost the Ford contract. 751 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,040 So he never really got to test that out. 752 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:56,840 So the rumour was that he was going to run a pair of four 753 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:01,040 Mondeos with the four-cylinder engine in it with Tiffany Dell 754 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,480 as one of the drivers. And yes, I think they would have 755 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,560 been quicker with it without without a doubt. 756 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,520 Apparently the the V6 engine used to eat the tires and that 757 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,880 would cause the car to just fall back. 758 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:15,320 And that's why he qualified well. 759 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,080 And it raced well opening laps and it would just fall back in 760 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,240 the way and in. And yeah, in the wet it did 761 00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:24,920 well. But in 95, that car just fell 762 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,560 further and further back down the grid. 763 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,040 And that was why that was supposed to be the reason why. 764 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,000 So, yeah, it would have been interesting to see. 765 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,200 I wonder if Andy now looks back and thinks, yeah, I should have 766 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,800 run those rather than those those old, old Nissan premieres 767 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,400 that he run from from the trim Germany. 768 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,120 Yeah, it would have been interesting and it would have 769 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,920 been nice for Tiff to have had a proper crack at the series, you 770 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,680 know, you know, but because I think Tiffany down in a in 1/2 771 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,920 decent car with a bit of testing behind him, probably would have 772 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,000 been half decent. He never. 773 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,120 Really quick questions. Two quick questions #1 when did 774 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,920 the V6 first come in? 93. 93. 775 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,960 Yes, they always had to run that V6 right. 776 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,400 But that car didn't seem to eat at the time. 777 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,480 No, did it? No, I think the arrow the 778 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,080 additional arrow didn't help in 95. 779 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,320 I see. With the extra downforce, yeah. 780 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,760 So was that a combination of? Was the tyre eating a 781 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,520 combination of the downforce and the weight of the actual block? 782 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,800 Yeah, and there might have been really more power then took a 783 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,360 couple of years. Later, yeah, right. 784 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,160 Yeah, yeah. So, But yes, Andy was always 785 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,680 adamant that the the four-cylinder engine would be 786 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,480 the better option. So funny it was a couple of 787 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,920 years later W Surrey did the same thing with the MG, didn't 788 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,040 they? They always had to run the V6 789 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,160 engine when they were the works MG program. 790 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,520 As soon as they turned those independent of those those those 791 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,480 cars into forcing their independent cars. 792 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:54,160 Reed had his strongest season in an MG so similar argument could 793 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,760 be said there really. But yes, they would have been 794 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,960 quicker than the work sports because they were a complete and 795 00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:04,440 utter disaster. Of all the team manufacturer 796 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,320 combos through the 90s, you've got to say the 96 Mondeo effort 797 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,880 may well be right up there. It's the worst of the lot, 798 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,600 unfortunately, when you compare expectations to the reality. 799 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,320 Yeah, and that dismal opener for W Surrey at Donnington, where 800 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,280 Rather Sitch and Robertson crash into each other at Redgate. 801 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,040 Yeah, that if you even now, if you watch that back nearly 30 802 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,000 years later, it almost happens in slow motion. 803 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,040 Doesn't it? It does, doesn't it? 804 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,080 Yeah, it really does. Robertson spins it. 805 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:38,680 It's like go left, go anywhere. But no, the meat in the middle 806 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,160 is awful. Yeah, that's terrible. 807 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:47,800 Yeah. Adam Lee Allen has got in touch 808 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,000 to say, hey guys, love the podcast. 809 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,800 Fantastic series Again. Thank you very much, Lee. 810 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,880 And his question is, if you could take one aspect of the 811 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,160 Super Touring era and put it into the current series, what 812 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,640 would it be and why? Well, without saying that the 813 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:11,240 rule book it's just changing. So you could just completely 814 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:13,600 change the whole design of the car and it might attract some 815 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,240 manufacturers to come in and and have a go at doing a good job. 816 00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:21,160 But I'm trying to think what he's different really. 817 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,760 I mean, probably the pit stops. They don't have pit stops 818 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,800 currently, you know, coming in two tires, Havoc in the pit 819 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,840 lane, pit lane speed limit, Ultimate carnage. 820 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,440 Yeah, that could that could thrust brand in the works, 821 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,440 couldn't it? Like sort things up a little 822 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,160 bit, Yeah. A little bit of strategy in the 823 00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:38,680 in the mix. Yeah, I think they're going to 824 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,520 strategy. Do you pit early just to so 825 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,800 you're not a bit bit like if you watch the IndyCar Series at the 826 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,240 minute, you know it's normally carnages isn't as they constant 827 00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:47,880 pit lane. So you know, you pit a bit early 828 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,840 to avoid all of that. But then obviously tires are 829 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:55,000 going to peak too soon. For me it would be the the 830 00:40:55,000 --> 00:41:02,760 quality of drivers and the field, international drivers and 831 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,440 that's no disrespect to the top three or four. 832 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,040 I watched the BTCC the other day. 833 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,520 I was telling Greg about it, she wasn't. 834 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,840 I hadn't watched it for quite a long time and I sort of thought 835 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,080 now I will give it a go and I didn't really enjoy it. 836 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,040 But apart from the top three or four, I don't think there's 837 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,760 really that much quality in the field. 838 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,280 And I think I'm. Going to say apart apart from 839 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:29,160 the drivers then. Yeah, what? 840 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,600 I'm just saying I didn't realize you're going to get that deep 841 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,360 into changing all the drivers out to be. 842 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,080 But in the in the seaport, yeah, in the, the. 843 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,520 Characters like I said before in a different previous. 844 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,120 I mean, we look at last week's episode where we were all 845 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:48,600 struggling to put some drivers into the top 10 and I don't 846 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,040 think you've got that depth in in quality now. 847 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,400 I don't think you've got it anywhere near in, in, in in 848 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,600 quality now. And where did it, where did it 849 00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,480 all go wrong then? Because if you look at Grand 850 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,920 Prix racing for either cars, Formula One or bikes, which is 851 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,760 mostly GP, it was a false economy, wasn't it? 852 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,920 In many ways because you had the tobacco sponsorship for when 853 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,400 sponsorship started, sort of 60s, early 70s. 854 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,160 And they had an endless pot of gold, didn't they? 855 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:14,800 Even Jordan and looking at him as funny. 856 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:16,240 Exactly. Cigarettes the. 857 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,960 Whole time, Exactly. So if you look at the 1990s F 1 858 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,600 field, you had Rothmans, you had W, you had Marlborough with 859 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,480 Ferrari, you had Benton and Hedges. 860 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:27,040 Didn't you, like you say with Eddie Jordan, whence that went? 861 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,720 And certainly with bikes, there's been a big difference, 862 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,280 big difference with the EU upping there, their laws not 863 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:35,920 allowing tobacco sponsorship and all the rest of it. 864 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,880 Energy drinks has replaced it in in many ways, but not to the 865 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,920 extent that tobacco do because like you say, I don't. 866 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,880 It was an endless part there. So I'm just trying to think who 867 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,480 were the main sponsors in the BTCC who we've lost because 868 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,520 these manufacturers still exist. It's not that they don't exist 869 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,560 anymore, they're still there. So where did it all go wrong? 870 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,680 It obviously got very expensive. I. 871 00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:58,200 Don't think I don't think I, I think touring cars is really 872 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:03,680 going to suffer existential crisis at some point because the 873 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:07,440 manufacturers don't really want to sell the type of cars that 874 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:12,600 traditional touring cars are, quite simply, especially. 875 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,600 When you've got manufacturers, they're only announced, you 876 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,000 know, they're announcing, oh, we're only going to make 877 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:17,880 electric vehicles from. Now on Yeah. 878 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,240 And like, you know, so it's just completely the world has 879 00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:23,240 changed. The world has changed. 880 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,720 You're either buying a little super Mini, like a little 881 00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:31,840 Citroen or a little Peugeot, or you're buying a Range Rover or 882 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:36,040 an SUV. There's no yeah, Mondeo, there's 883 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:41,080 no Vectra, no Cavalier. There's Peugeot 406. 884 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:42,600 Is that? Family saloon anymore. 885 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,400 No, that's the thing, isn't it? Because SU VS or the SU VS. 886 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,080 Yeah, it's the same with world super bikes. 887 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,840 They are based on road going machines, not like Moto GPA, not 888 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,760 like F1 touring cars and super bikes are based on road going 889 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,960 machines. Yeah, and the markets change, so 890 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,600 we're going to have to adapt to, you know, this is going to sound 891 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,320 a bit ridiculous, but why not race the Range Rover or the OR 892 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,880 the little Super Mini or? I know that sounds a bit mad, 893 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,000 but it would get people's attention. 894 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:13,280 What they're doing in Brazil, the stock cars are based on SUVs 895 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:14,760 now, but they've done. That for some time. 896 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,520 Haven't they have they right? And I'm. 897 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,840 Sure that their their champion is completely different. 898 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,000 Is that is it fun to watch? You're guessing it is. 899 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,040 I think it's more like silhouette racing, so no. 900 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,000 It's just body, You'll recognize the body on it, but in reality, 901 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,840 but in in France, when I did single season in France in Nice 902 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,640 start 2000, it was a silhouette championship then that competed 903 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:36,880 on on the same weekends that we did. 904 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,040 So that the silhouette thing's been something that's been done 905 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,320 a long time ago. I think bit. 906 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,640 Bit like when NASCAR S didn't the NASCAR over here, it was 907 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,000 like that. Vauxhall got more coverage when 908 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,720 they sponsored the four home nations in football and they did 909 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,120 putting a touring car team together. 910 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,840 And I, I think that's the simple difference I think is that 911 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,480 ultimately for the manufacturers, it is just a 912 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,280 marketing exercise. I think the world has changed 913 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:08,120 slightly in the sense that they see it more as a marketing 914 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,040 exercise these days, and maybe they did. 915 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,760 When? They saw it like they used to as 916 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,800 a test of the engineering that that's not a thing now because 917 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,880 cars are just reliable. So you don't need to go and race 918 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,160 it to show it's reliable. People assume it is and and go 919 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,640 from there with the Internet and reviews and build quality and 920 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,040 things like that, but also advertising to change the nature 921 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,680 of it's change. It's all about social media and 922 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,120 sponsored posts and things like that. 923 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,200 So, you know, if there's an algorithm that's going to follow 924 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,400 you to the buyers, you're going to pay for that and and get 925 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,640 almost a higher rate of success than put money into a project 926 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,720 that might not even show your product in a good way, which 927 00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:52,520 ultimately is what money to sport is. 928 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,960 It's, you know, and, and I think you're seeing it in the, in the 929 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,600 this, the things that are succeeding are the higher end 930 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:04,720 stuff like the sports car racing, where the performance of 931 00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:08,240 a racing car is going to be a big factor to a purchaser of 932 00:46:08,240 --> 00:46:12,160 someone that's looking at hundreds of 1000 LB supercar. 933 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:13,640 They're going to be bothered how quick it is. 934 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,120 But for average family cars, that's not a thing now. 935 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,920 And that that's the big difference. 936 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,080 I think the world's changed in that regard, hasn't it? 937 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:27,960 Great one for you John Corley asks. 938 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,800 Thanks for the great podcast. I'm a massive fan of Anthony 939 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,520 Reid and wonder if he doesn't leave Nissan to get in the Ford 940 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,640 in 1999. Do you think he'd have won the 941 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:42,400 title that year? In a word, yes. 942 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,160 Yes I do. I think there's there's three 943 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,760 drivers in the Super Touring era who finished second at least 944 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:51,160 once who never won the championship. 945 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,200 One of them is Steve Soper. One of them is Anthony Reid. 946 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,560 Twice and the other one is David Leslie. 947 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,520 Reid is the best driver in my opinion to compete in the Super 948 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,120 Touring era. I know some of you guys are 949 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,600 probably going to say SOPA here, but in my opinion it's Reid who 950 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,800 didn't actually win it. Although I didn't put Reid in my 951 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,920 top ten last week and I did put Leslie in, I do think Reid was 952 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,280 the best driver not to win the championship because of his 953 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:16,960 championship positions. Even though I think Leslie 954 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,040 probably did more for the series over the 10 year period of Super 955 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:21,920 Touring. But Reid was very close to 956 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:26,760 missing out to Rydell in 98 and then to menu in 2000. 957 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:31,160 He went to Ford for 99 before the end of the 98 season. 958 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,600 He could have taken the number one to Ford, couldn't he, if 959 00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:34,600 he'd won that. Championship. 960 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:35,960 Yeah, yeah, he could have done, yeah. 961 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,240 He got, yeah, he got a massive money off They didn't. 962 00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:41,080 He, as we've heard on this show before, and he doesn't regret it 963 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:42,960 to this day, even though he didn't win the championship. 964 00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,560 No life changing. He called it life changing. 965 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,040 Yeah. So, you know, although to be 966 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,120 fair, he could have won the championship anyway in 2000 and 967 00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,080 he and he changed pressure. Yeah. 968 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,640 So anyway, yes, to cut a Long story short, I do think he 969 00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,000 would, because it would have meant Aiello wasn't there, Reid 970 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,800 would have been there. Aiello beat Leslie and Reid had 971 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,040 beaten Leslie the year before. So I think, yes, Reid almost 972 00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,320 certainly would have won the 99 championship if he'd stayed at 973 00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,440 next time. Yeah, I agree. 974 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,320 Yeah. No, no, no two ways about it. 975 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,520 Probably even more dominant than Aiello. 976 00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:18,520 Really. Knew the team, yeah. 977 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:20,000 Knew the team. Knew the car. 978 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,640 The car was designed around him, he said. 979 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,960 It used to fit like a shoe, and he says it still does. 980 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:33,360 No, it's in the car now, nearly 25 years later, and it fits like 981 00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:35,120 a shoe. The only thing I would argue, 982 00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,440 and I don't know whether I'm just playing devil's advocate, 983 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:41,640 you may well disagree, but Reid, in the episode you had a couple 984 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,320 of weeks back, said that he and Leslie had very similar driving 985 00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,800 styles and it was great for sharing data. 986 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,800 I just wonder had Reid stayed, would Leslie's results have 987 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,840 maybe been a bit better in 99 because he was quite 988 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,320 inconsistent whereas Aiello obviously went off? 989 00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,640 On his quite possibly. Possibly. 990 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,280 They might have been a bit more evenly matched perhaps. 991 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,160 Just quite possibly he's. Putting that out there. 992 00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:03,600 But yeah, you have a point there. 993 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:05,480 But I imagine that. That was very different. 994 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,200 Wasn't he? At what point in a championship 995 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,000 fight does the data sharing stop? 996 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:11,520 Yeah, good point. I don't, but knowing the 997 00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,560 gentleman Reedy and Leslie are, would it have done? 998 00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:14,680 I don't know. I don't know. 999 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:15,960 I still think Reed would win it though. 1000 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,120 It's a It's a question you ask RML, isn't it? 1001 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:21,400 Yeah, yeah, true. You have to do that at Brands 1002 00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:22,960 Hatch. You know what? 1003 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,440 Did that ever happened? Did it ever got requested by any 1004 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,400 of your drivers or did they just get on with it? 1005 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,160 I can't imagine it really happened that often to be 1006 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,320 honest. Do we also do we also agree the 1007 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,200 top three drivers in the era not to win the title are the three 1008 00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,240 who finished second and never won, which I'd read. 1009 00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:38,760 Later. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1010 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,160 Yeah, yeah, I think. So that's fair, yeah. 1011 00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,120 Definitely, yeah. Alex, we've got one for you from 1012 00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,320 our new forum, which you can access by clicking the forum 1013 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:51,800 button at the top of our 1990s btcc.com website. 1014 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,520 Radisich Rocks on the forum has then got in touch to ask us. 1015 00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,480 It's coming back so long. We asked earlier why was the 1016 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:05,480 Ford Mondeo it's so bad in 1996? Yes, actually on it earlier 1017 00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,760 didn't I? Just basically too many cooks 1018 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:12,240 spoil the broth. Ford had this wonderful idea 1019 00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:16,320 that if every if they had different departments doing 1020 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:20,840 different things, then it would make one massive super, super 1021 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,320 touring car. And it just didn't work at all 1022 00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:27,320 because none of the none of the sort of the departments were 1023 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:33,160 talking to each other and it was just a complete and utter 1024 00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:38,080 disaster. Yeah, it was the worst works 1025 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,560 touring car of the era. Would you, would you? 1026 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,840 I know we you sort of mentioned that earlier, Greg, I think I 1027 00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,200 think you're spot on. I can't I can't think of another 1028 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:53,880 works touring car that that was that was, I mean, maybe the 1029 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:59,360 master in 92, but I mean. And I guess the 98 Peugeot not 1030 00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,960 far behind not. Far, but I mean Bradysich got a 1031 00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,280 fourth in that. True, yeah, and it's got to be 1032 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:05,920 the no yeah, it's it's got to be but look at. 1033 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:07,640 The but you look at the. What's going in? 1034 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:08,560 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just. 1035 00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,280 About to say sports, you know. Lacrosse, lacrosse going into it 1036 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,080 as well do. You think the fact they only had 1037 00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:17,480 one experienced driver because Steve Robertson was new to the 1038 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,160 game, I mean, he was never going to be able to push on 1039 00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,240 development line and say Harvey. And I felt a bit sorry for 1040 00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:24,080 Steve. Robertson Oh, I did too, yeah. 1041 00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:29,200 Because there's no, no way no one could ever judge on that. 1042 00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:31,160 Talking about being thrown in at the deep end. 1043 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:32,680 Yeah, I mean, he was quick. Obviously. 1044 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,200 He was Indy Lights champion, wasn't he? 1045 00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,080 And and of course went on to a very successful management. 1046 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,720 Career. Yes, overseeing Kimi Raikkonen 1047 00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:42,800 and others. Yeah, Jenson. 1048 00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:47,480 Yeah, yeah, I it was just bizarre. 1049 00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:49,480 And it was the same with the 97 Mondeo. 1050 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,800 You had one one design team doing the engine, one doing 1051 00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,920 this, one doing that, and it just didn't work because they 1052 00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,400 put all the bits together and it didn't make a quick car. 1053 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,520 So 97 was that Reynard? And who else was involved in 1054 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:05,680 that project? There were several people 1055 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:07,840 involved, weren't there? Yes, yes, Reynard. 1056 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,760 Reynard was one of the parties. Reynard Shubel. 1057 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:16,000 Yeah, Yeah, there was, it was a load of different parties and 1058 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,520 it's just, it just doesn't work. It just doesn't work that way. 1059 00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:20,400 I. Think it could have been that 1060 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,360 because it does copious amounts of budget throw everything at 1061 00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,520 it, but maybe there was too much going on. 1062 00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,120 Yeah. And and I think at the end of 1063 00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:32,240 98, they finally realized, no, OK, we need to leave this to 1064 00:52:32,240 --> 00:52:37,320 somebody because of course, W Surrey didn't actually design 1065 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:39,920 the cars when they ran the Ford contract. 1066 00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,440 The cars were just handed to W Surrey Racing. 1067 00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:44,240 And it's like, there we go. Do what? 1068 00:52:44,240 --> 00:52:48,120 Do what you can with it. Whereas when Pro Drive took on 1069 00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:51,680 the contract, they were Pro Drive built cars designed and 1070 00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:53,400 built. We designed everything didn't. 1071 00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,760 They Yeah. And, and in that second year of 1072 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,080 the programme, then it obviously it worked. 1073 00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:01,480 It's magic. But yeah, it was just a case of 1074 00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:05,760 far too many people doing different things and coming 1075 00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:09,120 together to create a complete and utter shit box. 1076 00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:13,360 No other way of wording it. I think also the 99, two 1077 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,920 thousand period, it just goes to show what effect it can have. 1078 00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,040 There's so many other elements, but having some superstar 1079 00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:24,120 drivers as they did and it paid off handsomely, didn't it? 1080 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:29,400 Yes, absolutely. Another question for the group 1081 00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,120 here. We've got an e-mail from Simon 1082 00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,480 Wrexham. He says, first of all, thanks 1083 00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,560 for the many hours of great entertainment reminiscing about 1084 00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,800 the Super Touring era. I rate this podcast right up 1085 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,520 there with bring back V 10s to keep up the good work. 1086 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:44,880 Thanks very much and for your really kind comments there. 1087 00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,800 So this question is, in an alternate universe where 4 wheel 1088 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,840 drive isn't banned, how much longer do you think ALDI would 1089 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,840 have stuck around and how well do you think they would have 1090 00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:57,000 done? My gut says they'd have stuck 1091 00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,720 around until the end of the 1999 season and that they would have 1092 00:54:00,720 --> 00:54:05,840 been titled challenges in 98 and then podium contenders in 1999, 1093 00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,840 but I'm curious to know the faults of the panel. 1094 00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:10,960 Greg, start with you on this one. 1095 00:54:11,240 --> 00:54:13,360 Oh, it's a great question. I have to say. 1096 00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:19,200 Great question from Sam there. I think if you look back at 1097 00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,560 history, as Charlie Cox once said, history's not been kind to 1098 00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,760 the Champions. We never had a repeat champion 1099 00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:26,600 all through the Super Touring era, did we? 1100 00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,360 Many was the only one to win twice and it was not 1101 00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,720 back-to-back. The rules were often changed, 1102 00:54:31,720 --> 00:54:34,480 weren't they, to stop the dominant car from the year 1103 00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,560 before doing the same thing again. 1104 00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,960 So if you look at the dominant seasons, BMW had a relatively 1105 00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:45,320 dominant 93, tricky 94, Alpha very dominant 94, very difficult 1106 00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,360 95. Howdy got given a weight penalty 1107 00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,640 after their success. Renault, it wasn't such 1108 00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:53,920 technical changes for them, but the whole format changed, didn't 1109 00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:55,560 it? Sprint races, feature races, 1110 00:54:55,600 --> 00:55:00,480 other people got stronger. So Audi, it's hard to say, isn't 1111 00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:01,720 it? Because I think, I think if 4 1112 00:55:01,720 --> 00:55:03,640 wheel drive had stayed in and there was no weight penalty for 1113 00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,440 97, very likely, although the Renault would have been closer. 1114 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:08,600 The question was about 98 wasn't it? 1115 00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,000 And how long they would have stayed around for. 1116 00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,920 I don't think so. I think no. 1117 00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:19,120 I think that Nissan was quicker than any Audi would have been at 1118 00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,760 the time. I I, I think, I think the Nissan 1119 00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:27,080 and the Volvo had got better than any anything the Audi could 1120 00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,240 have done. To go back to what Sam says, 1121 00:55:29,240 --> 00:55:32,280 though, I do think I probably would tend to agree with you 1122 00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,440 that they probably would have stuck around to the end of 99. 1123 00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:37,120 But I think their budgets were spiraling out of control and a 1124 00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:38,720 lot of people pulled out anyway, didn't they? 1125 00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:42,280 Yeah, I, I. I I wonder if they'd have 1126 00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:48,600 withdrew at the end of 98 just given that in 99 the Le Mans 1127 00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:52,920 project had really started to gather the experimental the 1128 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,560 experimental cars. They ran two different cars at 1129 00:55:55,560 --> 00:56:00,520 99 Le Mans, the one open cockpit, 1 close cockpit before 1130 00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:02,200 settling on the R8 for two found. 1131 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:06,320 So I imagine they'd have probably left at the end of 98 1132 00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,480 regardless. I think 4 wheel driver been 1133 00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:13,000 banned. Yeah four wheel driver had been 1134 00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,760 banned. Probably just confirmed that 1135 00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:17,760 that was the right decision for their marketing. 1136 00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:21,400 But I imagine with the Le Mans project being so expensive 1137 00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:23,720 they'd have probably done the same anyway. 1138 00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,040 Yeah, good point. And whether they'd have won 1139 00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,600 races in 98, it depends who the drivers were. 1140 00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,320 John Bincliffe wouldn't have won a race. 4 wheel drive. 1141 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,880 Muller maybe Beeler around he probably would have won a race. 1142 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:40,280 Yeah, Muller, I mean, he was pretty close to winning. 1143 00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:45,840 He he got a pair of seconds so in in the two wheel drive car. 1144 00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:49,680 So I'm I'm sure I'm sure that he would have been close if he 1145 00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:55,320 didn't win himself. But yeah, I I just think that 1146 00:56:55,320 --> 00:57:01,160 the the cars had got past the Audi at that point and then they 1147 00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:02,880 weren't even in four wheel drive. 1148 00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:05,880 They weren't going to be the competitive beasts that they 1149 00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:08,600 were a few years previous. But I also think they would have 1150 00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,720 known at least a minimum 12 months in advance that that 1151 00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:13,560 wouldn't continue, like we said, because of Lemon. 1152 00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:15,520 Yeah, yeah, if. You look how big that lemon 1153 00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:18,960 programme was for years. Yeah, I think, I think Levi's 1154 00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,360 spot on. I think they pulled out at 98. 1155 00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:23,280 I think they'd have done it anyway, even with four wheel 1156 00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:24,080 drive. Yeah, yeah. 1157 00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:26,840 Because to be fair. They'd done what they'd needed 1158 00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:28,200 to do. They'd won the, won the 1159 00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,680 championship, so. And obviously they had a weight 1160 00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:33,800 penalty to take into consideration, but they even had 1161 00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:36,200 some tricky times even in 96, didn't they? 1162 00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:38,480 At times. There was one particular run on 1163 00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:40,640 the run up to not Killer since Remember and Beat that hadn't 1164 00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,680 won a race for quite some time. Yeah. 1165 00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:45,200 So yeah, you're probably right, Levi. 1166 00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:46,560 You're probably, you're probably absolutely right. 1167 00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:48,440 They probably would have gone anyway at the end of 98. 1168 00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,320 But, Adam, one for you here now, Luke Roberts has asked us, what 1169 00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:56,960 did you think of the driving standards in the era? 1170 00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:02,160 Too rough or just about right? It was always a fine line, 1171 00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,880 wasn't it? Obviously Alan GAO, you know, he 1172 00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:08,600 likes that. He promoted that, that, you 1173 00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:12,360 know, a bit of contact never hurt anybody until you pushed it 1174 00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,960 too far and then you'd be in the back of the Toker bus with the, 1175 00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:19,760 you know, with the big, with the bigwigs getting a bollocking. 1176 00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:23,440 So but that that was the beauty of the championship. 1177 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,680 That's what made it a lovable championship. 1178 00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:26,760 Yeah. Compare it to the other, the 1179 00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:28,240 biggest form. That's what we've been. 1180 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,520 Formula One, you don't get that. And I think that's probably why 1181 00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:33,680 some of the drivers struggled as well, to be honest, coming into 1182 00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:34,800 it. It was just completely 1183 00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,280 discipline that we spoke about before. 1184 00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:44,800 But yeah, I just think from from a drivers perspective, there's 1185 00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:46,600 going to be times when you think it's gone too far. 1186 00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:50,600 But as an advanced perspective, it was, it was perfect. 1187 00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,760 You know, he's always on. You're always on the, you know, 1188 00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:57,880 on the line. And I think certain drivers knew 1189 00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,760 where the line was. Some of them didn't. 1190 00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,840 But GAO, it's what he wanted deep down here. 1191 00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:06,800 And that's what made the championship as good as it was. 1192 00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:12,240 Yeah, completely agree. People like spins, people like 1193 00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,040 crashes. And the good thing is with cars, 1194 00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,520 especially touring cars, you can have that without people getting 1195 00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:18,160 hurt. Yeah, and then it creates the 1196 00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,000 argument afterwards or you know, someone going into the cockpit, 1197 00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:25,160 like we said at Brands with Menu and Rydell. 1198 00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:28,760 Read. Read And yeah, they're having to 1199 00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:30,400 pop each other and you know that's. 1200 00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,720 And Gallagher knew that, you know, he knows that's what's 1201 00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:35,000 going to happen. So we don't mind a bit of 1202 00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,080 fisticuffs afterwards. He's not watching a bit of 1203 00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:38,920 NASCAR now, is it? They still grab each to the 1204 00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,320 bottom throat and start fighting each other, don't they? 1205 00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,440 You know, the back of the pits and stuff and then the, the 1206 00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:45,800 mechanics get involved and it all goes off, doesn't it? 1207 00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:47,600 So there. Was a massive fight recently, 1208 00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:49,120 wasn't there? There was, yeah. 1209 00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:53,160 The back of the pits, yeah. Captured by about four different 1210 00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:54,680 angles as well. It was. 1211 00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,920 So it's, you know, it's all part of the spectacle, It's all part 1212 00:59:57,920 --> 00:59:59,600 of the circus. It's all part of the show. 1213 00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:05,160 So yeah, it's not Bangor Racing. It's a fine line, but it's just 1214 01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:07,960 knowing how far to push things before you get punished for it. 1215 01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:10,560 I want to go motor racing, not stock car racing. 1216 01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:14,120 Thank you in the words. Exactly. 1217 01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:15,680 And that's what we spoke about before. 1218 01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:17,960 Like it wasn't Andy. That's not his back. 1219 01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:21,840 He wasn't that type of driver. That wasn't him. 1220 01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:27,400 He was smooth, super fast, one of the greats of all time and it 1221 01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:31,000 wasn't his. It's just wasn't his style of 1222 01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,720 racing, was it? During Cool so he's got in touch 1223 01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:37,320 to ask a little nice question about independence here. 1224 01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,840 So he was always intrigued by the variety of cars run in the 1225 01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,800 independence category during the Super Touring era and nice 1226 01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:48,160 towards the end of the year. There is a preponderance of 1227 01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:51,840 Honda Accords in particular. Wondering, was there any reason 1228 01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:53,440 for that? Were they regularly cheap to 1229 01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,960 purchase, it's easier to operate on, get spare parts for? 1230 01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:00,480 Or were Honda just more amenable to selling year old cars to 1231 01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:04,640 privateers in the 1st place? He also had were there any 1232 01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:07,560 particular cars you'd like to see and run the privateer hands 1233 01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:11,840 he'd have chosen over the Volvo 850 or the S40? 1234 01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:15,760 In answer to the first part of the question, yes, it was 1235 01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:19,640 basically independence ran wherever they could get their 1236 01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,440 hands on and the cheaper the better. 1237 01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:27,880 So what you would find is that top, top teams were not very 1238 01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:30,160 willing to give away their their good cars. 1239 01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,960 So that's why you didn't find many Renault Lagunas, You didn't 1240 01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:39,200 have any Volvos. Yeah. 1241 01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:41,440 You know, it was quite interesting that. 1242 01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:43,200 That's almost selling your secrets as well. 1243 01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:45,640 Yeah, yeah, Rush. Dad's got his hands on a 97 1244 01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:47,120 Lagoon. I mean, that's gold dust for 1245 01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:51,240 something Persia would give their right nut to get to get 1246 01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:55,360 hands on a Laguna from 97 to see what made it so special, for 1247 01:01:55,360 --> 01:02:00,280 example, you know, so and yeah, it was also how willing the 1248 01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:04,200 manufacturers were willing to to to sell their cars. 1249 01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:09,080 Plus some of them built more cars because they were entered 1250 01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:10,760 in more championships. For example, they were far more 1251 01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:14,920 Mondeos and Accords because they were raced all over the globe, 1252 01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:17,920 whereas Renault weren't they were they? 1253 01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,400 They were very, very focused on on Britain. 1254 01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:25,760 So there weren't as many Lagunas in existence than there were 1255 01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:30,400 Mondeos. You know, I'm thinking 1995 Matt 1256 01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:36,480 Neil Bourth, his Mondeo from Graf Racing in France. 1257 01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:39,840 So that was a French car. They didn't really there wasn't 1258 01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:41,360 that much. I mean, look at James Thompson, 1259 01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,040 you know, he got his hands on some old Peugeot 4/06. 1260 01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,760 It was 2 years old in 94 and as he said was crap at the time. 1261 01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:51,120 It was run in period, never mind two years later. 1262 01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:56,760 You know, Hamish Irvine was another one who who got things 1263 01:02:56,760 --> 01:03:01,160 on a budget. Jamie Wall with his Cavalier. 1264 01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:04,440 That Cavalier would have been a lot cheaper than any other car 1265 01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:07,400 in the in the 97 independence category, you know. 1266 01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:12,080 But yeah, so there was purely a higher number of some cars than 1267 01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:15,560 others. And also manufacturers were more 1268 01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:20,240 willing to sell their cars than others because some of them 1269 01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:25,120 would ship them out to Australia to race in the following year. 1270 01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,880 Yeah. So you know, Volvo did a lot of 1271 01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:32,320 that. So it would happen that the the 1272 01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:35,120 Volvos would be shipped off to Australia to race in the 1273 01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:36,720 Australian Super Touring Championship. 1274 01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:40,520 You look how different it was as well from that era as well. 1275 01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:41,880 You look at the era that I did it in. 1276 01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:45,600 We bought a certainly on petrol touring car. 1277 01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:48,280 Today we would sort of have a team of people manufacturing 1278 01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:50,240 more touring cars. So yes, they'll have them for 1279 01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:52,920 their own team, for their own World championship team, British 1280 01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:56,120 team, but then they'll also carry on and make a certain 1281 01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,880 amount of them for people like us as a privateer that want to 1282 01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:01,440 buy one. Which kind of how they made 1283 01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:02,760 their money back as well, isn't it? 1284 01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:06,360 Yeah, It would have been interesting to see like a Volvo 1285 01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,720 independent or an Alfa Romeo or something like that. 1286 01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:13,560 That would be quite cool. Because the other option was 1287 01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:18,560 then the only few people tried it was building your own super 1288 01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:21,560 tour. You know Dynamics tried it and 1289 01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:23,400 failed and. How? 1290 01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:31,000 Yeah, it's it's the fact that a team like Dynamics failed to do 1291 01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,480 it makes you wonder how tough it would have been. 1292 01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,840 You know Gareth Howell, it's. One, it's one of the things that 1293 01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:38,840 you just hemorrhage money and that's why we spoke about this 1294 01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:40,280 before about the house situation. 1295 01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:42,120 The money. I mean, fair play for having a 1296 01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:44,080 go, but the money they then things cost. 1297 01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:48,280 If you just buy one, you know, one or two year old car like Lee 1298 01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:52,240 Brooks had done and dynamics had done, it costs loads of money 1299 01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:54,880 just to run these things. Just try and build your own in 1300 01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,960 that era when it was as peak as it had ever be. 1301 01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:03,000 The design and Oh God. I can see why Dynamics would do 1302 01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,920 it because they wanted to better themselves rather than just run, 1303 01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,600 but for someone like Gareth Howell to do it? 1304 01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:13,680 Yeah, if you want to want a Henry's money, go and do that. 1305 01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:15,440 Go and try and design your own touring car. 1306 01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:19,680 Yeah, very very rarely we saw people switch cars mid season 1307 01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:21,760 didn't we? I remember in 2000 Mark Lemma 1308 01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:25,360 had a Class B Honda Integra and ended up going to an Accord. 1309 01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:29,440 Perhaps most famously, 97 Macneill started the year with 1310 01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,800 the Dynamics Mondeo and then switched from Croft onwards, I 1311 01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:35,080 think it was, to a Premiera. That. 1312 01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:37,520 Would very rarely happen when I mean dynamics were in a pretty 1313 01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:39,360 unique situation I guess budget wise. 1314 01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:42,360 Yes. But it didn't often happen. 1315 01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:45,040 And like Colin Galley said before you, you couldn't really 1316 01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:46,720 pick and choose. Like you said, Alex, you sort of 1317 01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:48,680 just had to go with what you could get, didn't you? 1318 01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:50,240 Yes, that's right. Yeah. 1319 01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:56,480 You know, it's it depended what, how much things were, you know. 1320 01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:02,320 So for example, I'm trying to find now a photo of an advert. 1321 01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:11,480 Here we go. So in 1997, Ian Hewitt or 1322 01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:14,800 Howard, I'm not sure, I never knew how to pronounce that, was 1323 01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:22,080 selling his 1993 Vauxhall Cavalier that he ran in the 1324 01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:24,560 Total Cup that year to very little success. 1325 01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:26,000 So this. Is a four year. 1326 01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:32,400 Car 4 year old car with the additional front and rear arrow 1327 01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:36,160 and at the end of the season he was selling that for £32,000. 1328 01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:45,520 Now Gareth Howell spent £250,000 on a car and it never even raced 1329 01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:51,840 on the Mondeo so. The 32 grand car you just 1330 01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:57,360 mentioned, What Car was that? So that's the 1993 Vauxhall 1331 01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:00,200 Cavalier. And what would that be in Rd. 1332 01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:04,040 trim if you just went and bought one sort of standard spec one 1333 01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:05,320 from the showroom? Does anyone know? 1334 01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:08,040 No, no idea. That doesn't sound too far off. 1335 01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:12,280 Well, maybe I guess a few 10 or 12,000 more, but it doesn't seem 1336 01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:13,720 too much more, does it, considering it's a. 1337 01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:22,160 No, 4 year old super tour at the time, £32,000 was a lot of money 1338 01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:24,120 I guess. But yeah, there's your, there's 1339 01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:26,280 your, there's your comparison, so. 1340 01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:27,920 That is true. Actually that would probably is 1341 01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:31,560 about 3 times more now isn't it? So that would probably be 908090 1342 01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:34,120 grand in today's money. So there's your comparison of 1343 01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:36,600 250 grand. Yeah. 1344 01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:41,800 So it was a lot of money regardless, but for someone on a 1345 01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:43,560 budget, that would have been an ideal car. 1346 01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:47,880 That's someone on a budget. Yeah, yeah. 1347 01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:52,600 And finally, Luke Kolk and Andrew Charman, friend of the 1348 01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:54,840 podcast of course, have come up with. 1349 01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:57,120 He did. He did threaten, he did threaten 1350 01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,240 to try and tease us with questions, didn't he? 1351 01:07:59,920 --> 01:08:03,200 He did. They've come up with a similar 1352 01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:05,440 question. If Alfa Romeo hadn't bothered to 1353 01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:10,040 come to the UK in 1994, by how many years would the arrival of 1354 01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:13,680 wings splitters and the results of much bigger budgets in the 1355 01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:18,319 BTCC have been delayed? And would the Super Touring era 1356 01:08:18,319 --> 01:08:22,600 have lasted longer as a result? If they hadn't, if they hadn't 1357 01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:26,240 turned up, how long before I think? 1358 01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:28,720 I think there's someone else. You just would have been someone 1359 01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:30,640 else, wouldn't it? I think Renault do it in the 1360 01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:33,560 following year with Williams. Yeah, I think it just would have 1361 01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:38,479 happened to another team. I think Williams Williams know 1362 01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,479 to say in 95 and think this is something we can do. 1363 01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:47,040 Yeah. Yeah, I don't think it's as Adam 1364 01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:50,200 said, if it wasn't alpha, it was going to be somebody or the. 1365 01:08:50,319 --> 01:08:53,920 CWR of the Saline 850. Somebody would have realized, 1366 01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:58,000 look, we can do, all we've got to do is build 5000 of these 1367 01:08:58,000 --> 01:08:59,960 special editions. We don't even have to do 1368 01:08:59,960 --> 01:09:02,319 anything special to them. Just put the front wing on them 1369 01:09:02,319 --> 01:09:03,520 and rear wing, whatever you know. 1370 01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:05,439 Throw it in the boat. They didn't even fit them to the 1371 01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:06,439 road cars, did they? Exactly. 1372 01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:08,479 Yeah. So I don't think it's much 1373 01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:14,319 later. And does it does it delay the 1374 01:09:14,319 --> 01:09:16,479 Super Touring era? No, I don't think so. 1375 01:09:17,319 --> 01:09:20,359 I don't think so. I think it would have lived on a 1376 01:09:20,359 --> 01:09:23,240 little bit longer had the wings not come in, because the cost 1377 01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:25,240 just spiralled out of control, didn't they? 1378 01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:27,520 Once one had done it, all the others had to do it. 1379 01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:30,680 As soon as the others started doing it, the others had to move 1380 01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:32,840 on even further to keep it. So I think it might have gone on 1381 01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:35,560 for a little bit longer because that's one of the reasons the 1382 01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:37,120 cost went through the roof, isn't it? 1383 01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:39,960 All the air and the aerodynamics and the wind tunnels and stuff. 1384 01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:41,040 That would cost money, doesn't it? 1385 01:09:41,359 --> 01:09:43,760 I'm not saying it would have lasted another 5-10 years, maybe 1386 01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:45,120 2-3. It's hard to know, isn't it? 1387 01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:47,080 But. Depends how long it would have 1388 01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:48,760 taken for someone else to do it, I guess. 1389 01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:50,960 Yeah. But in my, like you say in my 1390 01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:57,360 thoughts, Williams do it in 95 and then so yeah, maybe you get 1391 01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:01,040 2001, maybe I don't know. And all the all these teams were 1392 01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:03,360 around aero in some way. Obviously you've got Audi doing 1393 01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:06,200 the sports car program, we've got Williams doing Formula One, 1394 01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:09,520 you've got TWR doing, they've got sports car background. 1395 01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:10,800 Yeah. And Formula One. 1396 01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:15,600 So yeah, I don't think it was. Malik Malik Malik Malik had 1397 01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:17,680 sports cars. Exactly, Yeah. 1398 01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:19,440 Well, that's that's what John said, wasn't he? 1399 01:10:19,440 --> 01:10:21,880 Was the era of the turn the Cavalier back into a race 1400 01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:24,800 winner? Because it it suddenly changed 1401 01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:27,280 that car. If it wasn't the arrow on the 95 1402 01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:29,400 Cavalier, who wouldn't have won the the title? 1403 01:10:30,440 --> 01:10:33,120 It was the arrow. The arrow brought that back to 1404 01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:34,960 the front. So do you think the inherent 1405 01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:40,040 sort of sleek nature layout of the Cavalier as a car lended 1406 01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:43,520 itself just nicely to the arrow in comparison with some of the? 1407 01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:49,440 Maybe I don't know all. All I know is that in 94 that 1408 01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:51,080 car wasn't that competitive, was it? 1409 01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:54,280 John won a couple of races at Donnington and then suddenly it 1410 01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:57,040 took another step forward and John says it's because of the 1411 01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:59,840 arrow. They stuck the arrow on it and 1412 01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:01,200 they just transformed the car. I. 1413 01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:03,320 Think another thing as well to bear in mind with the arrow of 1414 01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:05,520 course, is the way the tyres reacted and people were on 1415 01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:08,880 different tyres. Well, there were several 1416 01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:11,480 different tyre manufacturers involved at that time as well, 1417 01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:13,640 very true. So that all had something to do 1418 01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:16,840 with it too, without doubt. Yeah, I mean I prefer the aero 1419 01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:18,800 looking cars. I don't know about you guys. 1420 01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:21,520 Yeah, I prefer the cars with the front and rear wings. 1421 01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:24,760 Especially the first couple of years where they're, yeah, still 1422 01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:26,360 a little bit boxy, but they have these. 1423 01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:29,080 Oh, no, no, no, off the edge. They look nice. 1424 01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:31,040 They do look nice. The fact of the matter is that 1425 01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:34,040 there was a big difference. Wasn't the breaking distances 1426 01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:36,800 become shorter, so passing is more difficult. 1427 01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:39,000 I mean, I think it was you, Alex. 1428 01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:41,880 You said to me recently that Donnington meeting that opened 1429 01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:44,600 the 95 campaign. There was hardly an overtaking 1430 01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:46,520 sight and that was not the British touring character. 1431 01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:48,960 And they knew it. Everyone was really worried 1432 01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:50,680 after that meeting going. Have we ruined it? 1433 01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:53,960 Have we ruined the formula? Has this has this turned it into 1434 01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:56,040 Formula One? Which is amazing because looking 1435 01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:58,080 back at it now, you wouldn't ever think that was the mood 1436 01:11:58,080 --> 01:11:59,640 because it's still brilliant coverage. 1437 01:11:59,960 --> 01:12:03,440 No, but it was a one of the most processional race meetings 1438 01:12:03,440 --> 01:12:05,600 probably through the whole of that period, wasn't it? 1439 01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:08,760 Yes, there was literally very, very little happened at all. 1440 01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:13,000 When you think of how crash, bang, what up the previous three 1441 01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,280 seasons had been overall, it was a big shot. 1442 01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:18,880 Yeah, suddenly it was. Yeah, like I said, the mood was 1443 01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:21,680 a bit sort of like what have we done to touring cars? 1444 01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:26,320 Yeah, it almost became a bit like F1 in a touring car layout 1445 01:12:26,480 --> 01:12:29,280 or it. Was a it was a bit like 2010 in 1446 01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:33,080 F1 when they banned refuelling and they went to the first race 1447 01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:38,080 at Bahrain and it was awful and people were like what have we 1448 01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:39,600 done? They were calling it Bahrain, 1449 01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:42,520 weren't they? But 2010 turned out to be one of 1450 01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:45,400 the yes, the F1 seasons. Great season. 1451 01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:48,880 And you can put the same for 95. Yeah, it was an absolute puller. 1452 01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,040 I think 9098, we've always said he's the zenith, haven't we? 1453 01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:56,040 But I think, yeah, 92 and 95, three different drivers 1454 01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:59,200 contending for the championship, Yeah, to the very end of one of 1455 01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:01,160 them and quite close to the end of the other one for three 1456 01:13:01,160 --> 01:13:02,520 different manufacturers. Not bad at. 1457 01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:07,400 All yeah, 95 was superb, as you say. 9098 for me is the zenith 1458 01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:11,880 of Super Touring. Mr. As Mr. Reed would say, just 1459 01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:14,480 before we sign off, gentlemen, can I throw one question to all 1460 01:13:14,480 --> 01:13:15,720 three of you for a quick fire answer? 1461 01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:19,480 What's your highlight been of all the podcasts so far that 1462 01:13:19,480 --> 01:13:20,920 you've done? Because I've thoroughly enjoyed 1463 01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:23,120 listening to them. I will just say it's been a 1464 01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:25,480 pleasure to work with you all. I'm looking forward to more. 1465 01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:28,280 If you had to put one highlight right now, whether it's a guest 1466 01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:31,440 or a certain moment from the three series so far or the four 1467 01:13:31,440 --> 01:13:33,960 series so far as it now is, what would you go for? 1468 01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:36,320 Levi, I'll start with you because you've been asking us 1469 01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:38,720 the questions on this one. Good question. 1470 01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:40,160 Well, that's a good question. I think a. 1471 01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:44,280 Question to the question exactly the man asked the question. 1472 01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:47,160 Now you now look, he's he's oh, he don't know what to say. 1473 01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:49,080 Now it's normally asking the questions. 1474 01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:52,760 It's like turning the tables on on Tarrant or Robinson. 1475 01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:54,920 Or I can tell you, I can tell you straight away. 1476 01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:58,360 Go on then, Jimmy T. Right, Jimmy T. 1477 01:13:58,480 --> 01:14:00,440 Yeah, why? I was going to say Gabrielli. 1478 01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:06,600 Just because he doesn't do any media at all. 1479 01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:13,040 And it took a bit of coaxing. We've been, we've been sort of 1480 01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:14,880 flirting with him for a while now. 1481 01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:21,000 And, and, and yeah, just it was fantastic. 1482 01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:23,600 And the, the reaction to it as well was brilliant. 1483 01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:27,760 So yeah, for me the highlights been James Thompson. 1484 01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:32,520 And just also to find out, because I did, I don't know 1485 01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:34,720 James at all. I didn't know James at all 1486 01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:38,080 before. Before the before the recording. 1487 01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:40,400 We spent, we spent about 3 hours with him, didn't we? 1488 01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:46,960 And he was just an absolute star, just the nicest bloke. 1489 01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:52,320 And he's keen to do more, so that's cool too. 1490 01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:56,240 Yeah, I think for me and Jimmy T was pretty special because yeah, 1491 01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:58,080 that actually doesn't doesn't do anything. 1492 01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:04,160 Gabrielli was just that was just incredible to have a a man of, 1493 01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:08,720 you know, driver of that world international calibre that 1494 01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:11,840 there's one in everything. And then driven more with an F1 1495 01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:16,280 and just the what a character as well doing Murray Walker 1496 01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:17,960 impressions for us. And. 1497 01:15:19,120 --> 01:15:20,680 And all of that. And that was that was kind of 1498 01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:23,200 the moment where we're like, well, for me, it's kind of like, 1499 01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:26,640 wow, this is like it's Gavin really target you need to money. 1500 01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:28,120 We'll look at impressions tomorrow. 1501 01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:30,400 Just casually having a glass of wine. 1502 01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:33,000 So that was that was pretty special, that moment. 1503 01:15:33,080 --> 01:15:35,560 It's hard because they're all good, and I think some people 1504 01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:38,640 have been exceptionally good that you probably wouldn't 1505 01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:41,800 expect them to be. Yes, yeah, that's that's true 1506 01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:43,680 also. I think that's, that's a big 1507 01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:46,400 surprise that I've come across where you probably, I think 1508 01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:48,800 you've got to play it a bit safe or you don't really know what 1509 01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:51,080 you're going to get or you feel like you're going to get a 1510 01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:53,520 particular personality. You know, it's going to be, but 1511 01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:56,680 you, you don't know them. So it's, you think you're going 1512 01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:58,560 to get this particular personality, but actually get 1513 01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:01,360 the complete opposite. And they've shocked you and, and 1514 01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:03,880 they've become this person that you never thought they were and 1515 01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:06,880 that they're really keen and, and, and told you more than they 1516 01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:10,840 probably needed to. And so I think they've all been 1517 01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:13,320 really good in their own individual ways. 1518 01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:16,600 And the great thing is there's still so many BTCC superstars 1519 01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:19,160 who are yet to feature on this show, some of whom are already 1520 01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:22,080 confirmed and some I'm sure will be confirmed in the near future. 1521 01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:24,800 So there's a lot. Still a lot forward, yeah, yeah. 1522 01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:30,160 Yeah. I'd like to thank Greg for 1523 01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:32,680 joining us once again on the show today and for his 1524 01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:36,160 contributions for our Series 4. We're looking forward to seeing 1525 01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:39,080 you at Brands Hatch at the end of the month for Super Touring 1526 01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:42,080 Power two. Our thanks, as ever, also gave 1527 01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:43,720 to you guys for listening to the show. 1528 01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:46,200 And if you enjoyed today's episode, please make sure to 1529 01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:49,520 give us a review, five star rating and subscribe to the 1530 01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:52,400 podcast feed on your podcast type of choice. 1531 01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:56,520 You can also send an e-mail to us to make a comment about 1532 01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:59,800 today's episode or podcast in general, or if you have a 1533 01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:03,400 question or suggestion for a future episode essentially in 1534 01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:06,720 Series 5. In the meantime, we will see you 1535 01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:08,640 in the autumn for our next series. 1536 01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:09,400 Goodbye.