1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:19,440 Stories from Super Touring. Hello and welcome to this week's 2 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,120 episode of Stories from Super Touring, the podcast that looks 3 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,800 back at the golden era of touring car racing. 4 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,840 Now, this week we're doing something slightly different 5 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,520 because we've got a returning guest to the show. 6 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,000 In fact, he's been on the show a number of times, has become a 7 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,160 bit of a friend of the show over the last few years, and in 2025 8 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,600 he's marking a truly incredible milestone. 50 years of 9 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,480 competitive motorsport? Yep. 5 decades of racing 10 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:51,480 brilliance stretching from the Circuit of Japan to the BTCC 11 00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:54,280 Battlegrounds, Le Mans and beyond. 12 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,160 We'll be diving into the highs, the heart breaks, the hilarious 13 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,880 tales from his half a century from behind the wheel. 14 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:05,160 So buckle up because we've got Anthony Reed back for another 15 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,400 chat. Really welcome back to Stories 16 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:09,480 from Super Touring. Good. 17 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,080 Evening, Alex. How are you? 18 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:18,040 Yeah, I just can't quite believe I've been racing continuously 19 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,840 for 50 years. It only seems incredible 20 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,640 yesterday in 1976 that I attended the Jim Russell World, 21 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:30,880 the Jim Russell Racing School, and did some races in 1976 with 22 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:36,600 the school at Snatterton. And yeah, no, I mean, it's been 23 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:42,280 an interesting winter. I was over in Japan for two 24 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,360 weeks helping James Headley. I've got some nice pictures 25 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,840 which I've put up on Facebook with, you know, Ollie Baerman, 26 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:57,080 James, that the, the, the good buddies and Odie Berman had gone 27 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:03,120 over to, to learn the circuit, you know, for this season. 28 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,360 And it certainly seemed to pay off because he was testing super 29 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,840 formula. And they're not much slower than 30 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,120 their formula, you know, 6 or 7 seconds. 31 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,360 They they say super formula, Japanese super formula is the 32 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:20,280 second quickest formula in the world, including in IndyCar. 33 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,720 And the power to weight ratio is pretty immense and great 34 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:28,160 aerodynamics. So couple of weeks over there 35 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:30,880 trying to find a seat for James Hadley. 36 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:32,640 That's great. Hadley's son. 37 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,200 OK. Then I suddenly got called up by 38 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:40,800 the Saint Andrew's Society of Los Angeles to go over to a 39 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:47,240 Burns dinner in Beverly Hills and they awarded me a lifetime, 40 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,840 the Robert Burns lifetime achievement Award. 41 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,840 Wow, thanks. 60 years of excellence in motor racing and 42 00:02:54,400 --> 00:03:01,040 previous recipients include Sean Connery, Oh, Angus Deaton, Nobel 43 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:05,000 laureates and Lloyd. He was the first Scotsman to win 44 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,560 an Oscar. I mean, the organisation is 45 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,360 almost 100 years old, so it's got a hell of a history. 46 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,840 Yeah. Oh, that's really incredible. 47 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:14,640 Couple of weeks in the Caribbean. 48 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,120 For that's lovely. Lovely. 49 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,200 After all that rushing around, so it's been a good winter. 50 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,840 Yeah, it sounds Anthony. Now obviously a lot of our 51 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,840 listeners will have first heard of you when you joined the 52 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,560 British Touring Car Championship with Nissan in 1997. 53 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,360 However, many of our listeners was also have heard of you from 54 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,400 your ex boys at Le Mans. You've got quite the history 55 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:46,400 there, haven't you? Yeah, the, I mean the race that 56 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,120 changed my life. Given that the up until the 57 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,120 previous year, the the fastest car I'd driven was a former 3 58 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,680 car with about 170 horsepower. To suddenly turn up at Le Mans 59 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:04,720 and be driving a car with 700 horsepower doing 225 miles an 60 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:09,840 hour on the Moors and straight, it was a real assault in the 61 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,840 senses. And we had a great run and, and 62 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,360 pretty faultless and we finished on the podium. 63 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,839 Tiffany Dahl, David Sears and myself, because it was a, 64 00:04:21,399 --> 00:04:26,240 because it was a Japanese team, it was owned by some Japanese 65 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,640 property developers. They immediately invited me over 66 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:36,240 to race with Derek Bell, Tiffany Dahl in that very same car in 67 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:37,960 the Japanese Group C championship. 68 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:44,040 And then it it it meant it, I ended up racing there for five 69 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,520 or six years and we didn't know then what we know now. 70 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,800 But if you look at the wall call of names that were racing at 71 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,360 that time, people like Michael Schumacher, Ralph Schumacher, 72 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,920 Johnny Herbert, Jacques Villeneuve, Tom Christensen, 73 00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:03,560 Eddie Irvine, Roland Latzenberger, you know, there's 74 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:08,880 a list of 25 drivers that went on to do great things, you know, 75 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,600 win Formula One World Championships, win the more 9 76 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,480 times. It was quite extraordinary. 77 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,040 And. And because, because there 78 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,840 wasn't such a thing as a smartphone, the Japanese, you 79 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:23,720 know, couldn't. They just thought we're all 80 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,040 professional drivers and we'll pay you very well. 81 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,600 Yeah. That game has changed completely 82 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:35,080 now, having just returned to Japan after 35 years. 83 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,440 Yeah, on the very few of the drivers get paid. 84 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:44,880 Some of the Japanese top drivers get paid, hardly any Europeans 85 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,200 get paid. A lot of people are having to 86 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:52,400 bring budget include people including people like Zach 87 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,440 O'Sullivan who's racing for Condo. 88 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:00,840 In fact, I what I did was some through my contacts in Japan, I 89 00:06:00,840 --> 00:06:05,720 set up a test for James Edley with Condo Racing. 90 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:12,240 Well, 30 years ago, Machi Condo, this famous Japanese singer, 91 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:18,800 he's like George Michael, but he's only known really well in 92 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,520 Japan. He went on to buy Condo racing, 93 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:27,720 set up Condo Racing and that's and when, when he was just so 94 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,920 over the winner as I was when we met each other in December after 95 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,320 30 years. And here he is a team owner now. 96 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:41,520 And it was just, it was great to return to Japan. 97 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,040 Obviously, the younger people have never heard of me, but a 98 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:49,120 lot of the older people from 30 years ago were coming up to me. 99 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,400 I was getting mocked on pit Rd. I mean, the test was like a 100 00:06:53,400 --> 00:07:01,920 Formula One race meeting because I I think, well, obviously Ollie 101 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:07,400 Berman was there. Zach O'Sullivan, Kimi Antonelli 102 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:12,200 was supposed to be there. OK, learn the circuit and, yeah, 103 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,400 the formula. But he didn't make it. 104 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,520 He was struck down with some illness at the last minute. 105 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,640 But there was a huge Japanese crowd there all week watching us 106 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:30,200 all testing, not me, but all these young drivers kept 107 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,600 messaging me and saying, have you had your seat fitting yet? 108 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,800 Because honestly, going back all those years, I mean, Tom, 109 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:43,560 myself, Jacques Dillon, all these drivers extremely well and 110 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:48,320 spent a lot of time together. And then I was sending pictures 111 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:55,360 of people like Kazuyushi Hoshino and Doy Doy, who was one of the 112 00:07:55,360 --> 00:08:00,560 team principals at Toyota. And all these people, not names 113 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,960 that will be necessarily known in Europe, but Hoshino is a big 114 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:09,160 name, as you I'm sure you know. Yes, yes, he, he, he raced in 115 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:13,320 that race with James Hunt. I think Hoshino spun in front of 116 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,080 James Hunt. I know that must have been Bran 117 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:20,240 Villa way back 1976, but. Yeah. 118 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,680 Just on Michael Croom, I caught up with him. 119 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,240 I mean, he he went to race in Japan all these years ago and 120 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:28,960 never came back. Wow. 121 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:36,159 Oh, OK, Apart. From to race, he, he raced FIA 122 00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:42,480 GT1, yeah, he won the RAC Tourist Trophy at Silverstone 123 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,480 and I think it was 2011 or something. 124 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:52,120 And obviously he raced Le Mans. But he he's, he lives in Japan, 125 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,120 married to a Japanese lady. Back what you were saying about 126 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:00,080 salary paid drivers back, you know, all those years back, 127 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,720 obviously, you know, the world has changed and that's why 128 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,640 drivers are having to take more and more money. 129 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,800 And, and those paid drivers like you had before back in Japan, 130 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,760 you know, was very it was very different then than it is now. 131 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:12,760 Just to try and give some of their listeners a bit of 132 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,760 understanding of that back in those many years ago, what sort 133 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:23,120 of salaries would a competitive driver be on racing F3 or you 134 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,320 know, their their equivalent, you know, high end series over 135 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,840 there? I mean I, I wasn't racing full 136 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:36,280 time in Japanese F3000, but one year I had four contracts 137 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:44,800 running for Group N, former 3, Japanese GT and oh the Japanese 138 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:49,280 Touring Car Championship. So I was on around £200,000 139 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,760 that. Wow, and what year was that, do 140 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,800 you reckon? More than 30 years ago. 141 00:09:53,800 --> 00:10:01,520 So it was 199394. And then I, I was in a bar with 142 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,640 Eddie Irvine in, in Tokyo, a place called Wupongi. 143 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:10,960 It's like Soho is, is to London. And he was complaining bitterly 144 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,840 to me that he was going to have to take a significant pay cut to 145 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,760 leave Japan to go and race for Eddie Jordan. 146 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:21,840 Yeah, it's a bit of a common theme as well. 147 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,720 I think when we spoke to different people that have raced 148 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:25,080 out there, they've all said the same thing. 149 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,280 You know, it was such a good place to be in terms of the fact 150 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,320 that, you know, we all aspire to be a professional racing driver 151 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,560 and that'd be our career and get paid to do what we love. 152 00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:35,960 So I think, you know, yeah, it was a very difficult thing for 153 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,240 people to then, yeah, dream job, you know, to, to and then to 154 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,360 come and race maybe something probably more competitive more 155 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,200 than public eye, but actually getting paid less or not at all. 156 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,560 But you into that double edged sword, isn't it? 157 00:10:47,560 --> 00:10:50,040 I need to come back in a competitive, you know, limelight 158 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,080 in Europe, but I won't be necessarily be getting paid for 159 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:54,680 it. So it must have been difficult 160 00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:56,400 decisions at times. You, you. 161 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,080 Jane was a bit tight with his money. 162 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,840 Obviously when we have to to Ferrari done very well. 163 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,160 Yes, yes, yeah. What, what was it like at the 164 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,120 time, Anthony, being part of that British contingent out in 165 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,240 Japan? You mentioned, you know, Eddie 166 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,560 Irvine was out there and yeah, I think when you raced into 167 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:21,240 touring cars as well, Steve Soap was out there for BMW and so on. 168 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,080 What, what was it like being out there on, as you mentioned, 169 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,920 pretty, pretty good money out in Japan, which is is not really 170 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,520 something British and European drivers seem to do as much 171 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,240 anymore, is it? Yeah, the IT was a fantastic 172 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,720 time, particularly as you as the years go back by the, you know, 173 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:43,520 the the memories become richer. You just think it was a we were 174 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,800 very privileged, just we hit Japan at the right time. 175 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,360 We're all being paid. But there was a great 176 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,000 camaraderie that you don't necessarily necessarily see in 177 00:11:55,000 --> 00:12:00,240 in Europe because in Japan once you've signed your contracts and 178 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,440 we're driving, nobody was going to steal your drive unless you 179 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,560 kept crashing or something. So we weren't kind of nick each 180 00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:10,400 other's rights. You know, we all have well paid 181 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,960 contracts and so there was a much more relaxed atmosphere in 182 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:19,160 in the paddock and a lot more camaraderie and fun, you know, 183 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:23,360 away from the circuit and stuff which you don't see much of 184 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,120 these days than I was watching them back. 185 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:28,040 Yeah. No, that's true. 186 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,720 It would. It's quite a contingent of of 187 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,680 very well known or drivers that would go on to become well 188 00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:36,040 known. I mean, I'm thinking like you 189 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,840 said, you've already mentioned Christensen, Rydell was out 190 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,120 there, Eddie Irvine, you've mentioned Jacques Villeneuve. 191 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:46,600 You raced in Japanese F3 with it became a hotbed of future 192 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,920 motorsport talent, didn't it? Yeah, I remember racing the 193 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,760 Japanese GT against Ralph Schumacher. 194 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:00,560 He was in the McLaren and I was in a Porsche or a Ferrari F40, 195 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:05,240 depending on which we count. So, yeah. 196 00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:10,040 And because tragically, Roland Ratzenberger, I mean, I had a 197 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:15,640 massive shunt in Japanese F3000 and testing and the car shot 198 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,160 into the air. I crashed at 160 miles an hour. 199 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,240 The car shot into the air and my helmet was knocked off and the 200 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,920 car landed upside down with me trapped in in the car and there 201 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,560 was blood, blood on the circuit. Went with a head wound. 202 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:32,920 There's a lot of blood. It's, I mean the marshals didn't 203 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,240 really do anything, they just assumed I was dead. 204 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,320 The first guy up who had to swerve to avoid being crushed by 205 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,720 my car when it came back onto the track was Roland's and 206 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,880 Roland. Roland got me out the wreck and 207 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,600 organised the ambulance and everything. 208 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,040 Wow. I woke up halfway to the 209 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:57,440 hospital and tragically, Roman was dead within 18 months. 210 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,200 It's actually the anniversary today. 211 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,640 Is it really? It is, yeah. 30th of April. 212 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,920 Yeah, 94. When that happened, I I wrote a 213 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:11,240 letter to his parents saying what he'd done for me in Japan. 214 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,880 They hadn't actually heard the story before, but it has been 215 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,160 published in a a number of magazines. 216 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,080 My story about that, what happened that day? 217 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,080 And yeah, Michael Schumacher didn't race full time, but he 218 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:32,600 came over and did some races, F3F3000 and C, That was Michael 219 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:33,840 Schumacher. Yeah. 220 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,160 Ralph, I knew better because we've done the whole season 221 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:43,800 together in Japanese GT and you know other drivers. 222 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:51,440 The that list of, you know, 25 well known drivers race AL and 223 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,960 Zulufsson and the list goes on and on. 224 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,200 Steve Sopa and Winkle Hawk, memorable stuff I can tell you. 225 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,760 Unbelievable. Yeah, I mean talk talking. 226 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:05,800 You mentioned Sopa there and Winkle Hawk. 227 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,520 You obviously raced in the Japanese Touring Car 228 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:15,840 Championship alongside those and you really came to a lot of 229 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,000 people's attention when you started winning in the HKS 230 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,000 Cavalier. Fond memories of of those times 231 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,280 and your first steps in Super Touring. 232 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,600 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I realised after, I 233 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,920 mean, I have a lesser on my toilet wall from Eddie Jordan 234 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,640 saying we love Anthony Reed, he's a fantastic driver. 235 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:40,920 Subject to the right sponsorship. 236 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,760 But arrangements, you know, we'll give them due 237 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:51,720 consideration to race in F1. And about two weeks before I 238 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:57,680 might have, it's dated October 1990 and about two weeks before 239 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:02,160 I might have been able to sign that contract, my sponsor went 240 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,320 bust. I had a Japanese sponsor teed up 241 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,600 to write the cheque and well, the rest is history. 242 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,320 I mean, obviously gash, it started off and then Schumacher. 243 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:14,680 Yeah, got into a bit of every hour. 244 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,600 I've I've framed that letter and put it on my toilet wall. 245 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,320 It's a good place, yeah. Extravagantly by. 246 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,920 Eji can imagine. Yeah, there's. 247 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,680 One place in my house people will stand still for long enough 248 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,360 to read. Just briefly touching on EJ, who 249 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,920 sadly recently we lost. He was quite a character, wasn't 250 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:45,400 he? Unbelievable, especially when I 251 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,960 look back. He's one of those sort of guys 252 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:53,440 that could spot talent and was really encouraging of that 253 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:58,880 talent. I mean, when I was kind of 254 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,960 struggling a bit in Form 3, but I was showing flashes of speed. 255 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,800 He come up to me in the paddock and say that's a great job 256 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,119 you've done in qualifying today. OK. 257 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,160 And so he, he, he was always looking for the next 258 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,800 opportunity, a really quick driver, ideally with a bit of 259 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,400 sponsorship, which was sadly lacking in those days. 260 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:28,680 But I, I, I, I've known EJ throughout my career, well since 261 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,160 certainly since the early 80s. I actually raced against him at 262 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,080 Alton Park in a sports 2000 race. 263 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,160 There was a big race for the low well known drivers like Eddie 264 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,640 Jordan was in the race, David Leslie, myself and others. 265 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:51,120 I can't remember the others, but I mean, EJ was a a good driver, 266 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:59,720 second in that race, but he saw his future obviously as a A-Team 267 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:00,760 boss. Yeah. 268 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,600 It, it was a really likeable guy. 269 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:08,320 Egypt always through and then as members of of the BRDC 270 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,240 sometimes, you know, during the British Grand Prix, we've been 271 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,920 in the farm together. I'd be in my motorhome and he'd 272 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,000 be in his one and we'd have a glass of wine or champagne 273 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,720 together. Yeah, great. 274 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:22,920 Love it. Love it. 275 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:24,880 Yeah, it's not. It's of the generation that 276 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:29,080 won't be replaced. He's just an absolute legend. 277 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:29,880 Yeah. Unique. 278 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:31,720 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 279 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,240 Just touching back on Japanese Touring Car Championship, 280 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,920 Anthony. Well, I think because especially 281 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:48,040 to predominantly European British audience, this will be 282 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,120 known of what the racing was like out there. 283 00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:54,320 But given that it was well funded in terms of drivers and 284 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,920 salaries and so on, and you were racing some big Grand Prix 285 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,280 tracks and other, you know, very, very good circuits out 286 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,400 there, what was the racing like in that championship, especially 287 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,720 compared to when you moved on to Germany and and Britain later 288 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:13,280 down the line? Highly competitive because not 289 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,880 only did you have the European drivers like Super Winklehawk, 290 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:24,600 Michael Croon, myself, Tom Christiansen, you have the the 291 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:31,240 best Japanese drivers like Hoshino, Toshio, Suzuki and 292 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:35,680 other top drivers. And it was just as cut and 293 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,160 thrust as anything I've seen in Europe or Britain. 294 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,800 It really closely matched a lot of investment by the 295 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:50,120 manufacturers, you know, Toyota, Honda and of course BMW was 296 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:55,600 Schnitzer and myself at the Opal Vetra or Vauxhall Cavalier and 297 00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:00,360 HKS, which is a very famous cartoony company if you've ever 298 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:03,560 watched Fast and Furious. Yeah, all. 299 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,080 Their they make most of the parts for them though. 300 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:10,240 Yeah, endorsed. You know Vale side trusts all 301 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,560 the big and HKS was right up there. 302 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,320 Yeah. And it was a hell of a set up. 303 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,280 I mean, the factory was something like something out of 304 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,240 a James Bond film. Everyone wears the same 305 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,200 clothing, you know, top and bottom, like Euler suits. 306 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,920 Even the boss has cigar with Sam. 307 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,280 He was the H of HKS. He would dress exactly the same 308 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,200 so you couldn't tell what the pecking order was. 309 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:46,400 To use some charge our our workshop was up above the 310 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:52,960 factory in this incredible building with a totally marble 311 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,560 floor and a lift to take all the kits up and back down again. 312 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:04,320 And that's where my cars were prepared by the the best of the 313 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,080 engineers and mechanics that they could find from the factory 314 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:12,600 that made all these car parts. We won a lot of races together. 315 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,080 It was amazing. It's a beautiful car that Vectra 316 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,160 that you drove out there, the the multi coloured, the green 317 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,640 and purple with HKS all over it. It's, it's one of the iconic 318 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,320 super tours that wasn't from Britain and it's it's fondly 319 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:31,360 remembered by a lot of people. But Even so when so much so that 320 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:38,560 when I teamed up with Jake Hill recently at Super Touring Power, 321 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,880 Jake came rushing into the motor, the truck with these 322 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,760 bodies of the cars I'd raced, which he puts on his Tamia 323 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,240 Racing model car. And he got me to sign them. 324 00:21:52,480 --> 00:22:00,280 The HKS I remember and the Nissan, I think because he was 325 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,000 only a young boy when I yes, what sort of race and Super 326 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,840 Touring. Yes, no, he mentioned that when 327 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,520 we did that piece with you, him and Richard that, yeah, he, he 328 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,400 was a big, big fan of. I know he loves his Tamia 329 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,280 models, doesn't he? And I remember he mentioned that 330 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,880 that was one of his favourite race cars from from that period. 331 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,320 So, you know, that's an example of just how much, how well loved 332 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,320 that was. With with the touring cars that 333 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:29,240 you did in Japan in between that, did you have a stint in 334 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:30,640 the Spanish touring cars as well? 335 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:38,520 Yes, after the season finished in Japan, I with my contacts 336 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,040 with Opel because I won a number of really important races in 337 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:50,280 Japanese F3, like the main support race to the to the 338 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:55,640 Japanese Grand Prix. I've been racing an Opel powered 339 00:22:56,120 --> 00:23:02,320 Donaro and won a number of significant races that this was 340 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,560 the year after won the Japanese F3 championship and so I had 341 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,640 strong connections with Opel. I used to do a lot of testing 342 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:14,800 for Vauxhall the year that John Clements won the championship. 343 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,560 Yeah, you know, Ray Malik will get me back over here to do 344 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:24,200 testing and stuff. And so when the season finished 345 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:30,480 in Japan, I was then invited to to race in the sorry, the 346 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:36,320 Spanish during car championship for Opel in a Vauxhall Cavalier. 347 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,960 But Opal Vectra. Yes, yeah, yeah. 348 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,360 It's a Bachelor Vectra open then. 349 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,480 Yeah, I did a number of rounds of the Spanish championship and 350 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,240 then I was approached by Nissan in Spain. 351 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,560 Would I race for Nissan? Because, you know, tragically, 352 00:23:53,040 --> 00:24:00,120 sliding doors, Keith O'door had been killed in Germany at Abus. 353 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:11,280 I mean, it's such a awful, brutal business, but they they 354 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,120 needed another driver. Yeah. 355 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,920 For the German Touring Car Championship the following year 356 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,280 and they they made me an offer and. 357 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,640 Am I, am I, am I right in remembering that the whole point 358 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,320 of that programme was to eventually move into the British 359 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,960 Championship for 97? That was the aim. 360 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,960 Yeah, 96 was kind of a development and preparation year 361 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,560 for full time assault on on the British Touring Car 362 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:44,720 Championship. Nissan recognised as a lot of 363 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,720 manufacturers did at that time, the profile of British touring 364 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:55,040 cars was big. I don't even know Barry Nutley 365 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,200 who's the commentator that I'm sure you do. 366 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,080 Yeah. He said that the British touring 367 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,240 cars was more popular than F1 in this country at that time. 368 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,040 He said they they compared the numbers and and the viewing 369 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,160 figures for British touring cars were were bigger than F1. 370 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,560 It was huge. It, it became around that mid to 371 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:23,600 late 90s mark, that 909596. That's when the tide really 372 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,000 turned and there were so many people switching on to touring 373 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,080 cars. And it was, for me, it was the 374 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,240 action of the, the racing. It was the the there was a 375 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,600 little bit of contact when it wasn't too much, but there was 376 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,160 an aggressive style of racing that really appealed to people 377 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,360 like me who absolutely adored it. 378 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,960 The the other game changer was the PlayStation. 379 00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:51,160 Game, yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a whole new audience 380 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,560 of spectators. Yes, absolutely. 381 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,520 And you know, I was at Goodwood a couple of weeks ago ago and 382 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,560 people were coming up to me. They said I used to play, I 383 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,280 mean, really famous drivers. I. 384 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,440 Remember Jake mentioning in the brand's hatch When we, we, we, 385 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:07,880 we sat down and chatted together. 386 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,560 It, it, that was one of the major things that got him into 387 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:16,840 touring cars was playing BTCC on, on the PlayStation, you 388 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,280 know, and, and, and it got so many people into the sport that, 389 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,880 you know, I remember in school in comprehensive, people were 390 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,520 going, oh, is this a PlayStation game Tokyo? 391 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,200 Yeah, yeah, it's very good. Well, it's actually on BBC. 392 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,240 If you if you want to watch it for real, it's on. 393 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,520 Anthony, back to your teammate in the Spanish touring cars, was 394 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,800 it Alex Cafe? Yeah, that's it. 395 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:45,640 I went to Alex Cafe's house in Italy with the team boss that 396 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:52,320 that was running me and I had lunch there and his house is 397 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,560 like a trophy cabinet to all the wins he's had. 398 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,720 And he released an F1, did he not? 399 00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:59,680 Yes, yes, he did. Yeah. 400 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:10,280 And then we all went up to, to Falalunga for ADTM test in Alfa 401 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,520 Remez. And so I, I think I finished up 402 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,800 third quickest, what could have been my quickest lap. 403 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,720 I got a wheel on the grass coming down through the asses. 404 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:27,520 So that, that, that alpha seemed to be really impressed that I 405 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,360 didn't get the drive. But at that time this Nissan had 406 00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:34,920 made an offer to me. So I thought finished general 407 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,480 cars is a great route. Yeah. 408 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,920 What, what were these DTM cars like? 409 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,720 Because they were, I mean, the, the Super Touring cars were 410 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,600 incredible from a technical standpoint already, but those 411 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,240 DTM cars seemed like a different beast almost. 412 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,240 And they, they had the same money issues, but a little bit 413 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,720 earlier than than Super Touring. What? 414 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,680 What were they like to drive? Oh really? 415 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:03,040 Another level. A lot of aero 4 wheel drive the 416 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,440 first time I dredge on a car with an automatic gearbox when I 417 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:14,040 said that an actual Pebble shift, but we are back in 1995 S 418 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,400 phenomenal tech and I really enjoyed this. 419 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,440 That's my kind of style of car 4 wheel drive. 420 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,520 You know balanced. You can take tremendous speed 421 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:31,600 into a corner and, and, and make the car turn using the dynamic 422 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,320 rotation of the car through the corner. 423 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,680 And yeah, I really enjoyed that experience. 424 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,080 But but it was from one and any time I I got a chance to test 425 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:50,760 DTM and I think Alpha were sort of thinking about making an 426 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,320 offer. It never materialised but I was 427 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,400 really happy with the way things turned out. 428 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:02,160 You mentioned 96 there. Was that the year of the four by 429 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,560 4 the four wheel drive Nissan? Yeah, there was a four wheel 430 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,280 drive Nissan. Yeah, and rather sad. 431 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:15,040 I don't know why Ivan Capelli decided that he should race that 432 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,600 car and it just wasn't a success. 433 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,840 It was a bit of a bow tanker 4 wheel drive. 434 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,520 Of course a nice thing to have is Audi proved, but it just was 435 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,080 not as quick as the car I was on the front wheel. 436 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,040 Drive with this with Sasha Mason. 437 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,520 Was the other driver. Sasha Mason That's that's right. 438 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,280 We both drove the front wheel drive cars and Ivan Capelli 439 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,520 drove the four wheel drive car, but it just was it, it never 440 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,760 really worked hard. And because of that he lost his 441 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,440 drive with Nissan about halfway through the year, which I 442 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,200 thought was a terrible thing to do. 443 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,720 But I mean, Ivan and I got on quite well. 444 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:04,080 And over beers he'd tell me what it was like to race for Ferrari. 445 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:09,320 He said he went down to might have been Rome for the press 446 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,760 conference to announce his drive in in Ferrari for Formula One. 447 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,840 And he had to stop at a petrol station to fill up. 448 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:24,360 And he had to queue up like any mere mortal and actually pay for 449 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,080 his own fuel. On the way back after the 450 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,200 announcement, he stopped at the same station and everyone was 451 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,040 cleared out. The way they fuelled his car up 452 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:40,760 first didn't have to pay. And he said in Milan or Rome, 453 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:45,720 when he went out for dinner, he always got a table and more 454 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,200 often than not didn't have to pay. 455 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,960 Superb at. The end of that year, he was 456 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,840 big. He was immediately back in when 457 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:59,280 the contract was, yeah. So he was back to being a mean. 458 00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:02,400 Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Italian. 459 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,280 Yes, very much so. That's why everybody wants to 460 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,080 race for Ferrari down to Pineville. 461 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:10,560 But I think Mansell said the same, didn't he? 462 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,640 Like when you got there, you just, you just treated as one of 463 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:13,560 their own straight away. It was. 464 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,880 It's pretty, pretty bizarre, isn't it? 465 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:17,920 The feeling, I think, the experience. 466 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:27,920 So in into into that first year of British touring cars with Ray 467 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:34,840 Malik and Nissan in 97, was it everything you expected it to be 468 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:40,480 or was it harder or easier? What what were your expectations 469 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,600 going in and what was the reality of it all? 470 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,360 It was tough in the beginning, but the IT was just the profile 471 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,200 of the championship that was a bit mind blowing. 472 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,200 You know, being live on television grandstand with 473 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,520 Murray Walker commentating. Mind you Murray Walker's 474 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,720 commentated on quite a number of the races that I've done over 475 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,280 the years, especially when I was teammates with Damon Hill in 476 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:15,360 former four 2000s back in the early 80s used to commentate on 477 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,640 the the BBC grandstand winter series. 478 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,320 And so I actually knew Murray quite well. 479 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,760 I had his home telephone number sometimes phone him up. 480 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,440 He was a very kind fellow. He would say that phone me up. 481 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,760 I'll give you some advice or. OK. 482 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:39,160 And it was tough in the beginning because we were still 483 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,080 developing the car. We hadn't got the engine, the 484 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,120 engines really sorted out. So we were down by a few 485 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,960 kilometres or miles an hour. And that corresponded to where 486 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,480 we were initially qualified on the grid sort of, you know, 487 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,800 around this sort of 10th position type thing. 488 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:04,320 But then I started to get my find my stride and we got the 489 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:10,840 engine sorted out because I started life as a mechanic. 490 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,480 I. OK. 491 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:20,400 Back in the in the mid 70s and I found that has been incredibly 492 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,200 helpful throughout my career. I can imagine. 493 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,200 So I can feel that there's an issue with the car. 494 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,000 I can tell the engineers where that problem might be and what 495 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:37,120 we might need to do to fix from yeah, that helps to develop the 496 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,800 Nissan in 97 pretty rapidly. So by the end of the season 497 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,320 we're fighting. I had a pole position at 498 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:49,720 Snatterton, for example. I, I, but then I was 499 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,080 disqualified because the ride height was a couple of 500 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:53,720 millimetres too low or something. 501 00:33:54,800 --> 00:34:01,680 The but at Donington in the RAC Tourist Trophy, I won my first 502 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,520 race that year against Jason Plato, Aluminium, people like 503 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:14,360 that. And then over the winter we were 504 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,520 developing a car we'd we'd often go to Spain to test because the 505 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:23,360 weather's very consistent in Spain, dry and for some reason 506 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:28,199 Michelin changed the construction and compound of the 507 00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:32,639 tyre and it just suddenly clicked with a Nissan. 508 00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:39,360 It just suited our car so well. And so from the get go in 98 we 509 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,760 were starting to win races on a regular basis. 510 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:48,320 Yes, you mentioned that that TT at Donington, I'd forgotten that 511 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,480 you'd won that for that first race of that day. 512 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,760 And that was a field full of the best of the European talents as 513 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,800 well, because you had people like Chris Nissan, Ivan Muller 514 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,840 came across Christian Apartment, Armin Hana, Carrie Mackin and it 515 00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:05,040 it was a decent field. And for you to get your first 516 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,760 win in a, in a Nissan Super Tour there that would that's, that's, 517 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,600 that's an impressive field. When I see John Cleland these 518 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:20,200 days I'd say do you realise you cost me 25,000 bloody quid? 519 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:26,920 Oh what they did was they had two heats and a final, so 520 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,520 depending on where you qualified, I qualified on pole. 521 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,840 So for the first heat I was in pole and won it. 522 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,880 For the second heat, the grid was reversed from qualifying, so 523 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,080 I started at the back. I came up through the fields and 524 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:48,320 went to pass John Cleland coming down through the cranny curves 525 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,360 and he did his old favourite trick. 526 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,640 You know when you get 3 quarter overlap? 527 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,160 He gave me a pit turn. I think that's what the police 528 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,320 call it in America. Yeah, I see the pit manoeuvre. 529 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,880 Pit manoeuvre and he spun me. I flat spotted my tyres and hit 530 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,120 anything and I carried on. It had come in for new tyres, 531 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:14,960 but the deal was that then the combined results of the 1st and 532 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,120 2nd heat determined your good position for the final. 533 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,360 And because John had put me off, I think I, I don't know, started 534 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:30,720 10th or something and menu won at the final and the £25,000 535 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:36,640 prize hunt, which I was damn sure I could have won had John, 536 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,560 I said you, you bastard, you cost me £25,000. 537 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,360 We have to laugh about it these days. 538 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:51,360 But yeah, I mean, John will readily admits to I'm the only 539 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,320 driver that he's actually purposely put off the circuit. 540 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,680 Yes. He told, he told us this last 541 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,080 year. Yeah. 542 00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:05,080 Yeah. It was me, you and him. 543 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,520 And we were with Greg Haynes at the bar at Brands Hatch. 544 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,440 And you confronted him with it and he went guilty. 545 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,240 Yeah. And they just held his hands up. 546 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,920 It's a fellow Scott. I think he felt I was shitting 547 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,360 in his nest or something. Come into the. 548 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,400 Just to rewind just a little bit, just obviously I don't want 549 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,880 to breeze past the Le Monde thing that you did. 550 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,520 What was it like going down the Moss on straight absolutely flat 551 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,880 out with no chicanes? Well. 552 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:49,680 How terrifying was it? I raced there in 1990, which was 553 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,040 the first year in the chicanes. Oh, OK. 554 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,920 Was that your first year when they introduced the chicane? 555 00:37:55,360 --> 00:38:00,360 Yeah. OK, I'd never raced on the 556 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:01,680 original mall. Sounds straight. 557 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,760 We're just like 3 miles long. Yeah. 558 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:12,360 And because I came to to the circuit with a fresh set of 559 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:17,480 eyes, if you like, during testing, we tested the, the long 560 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,400 the I think they call it the Lang heck, or the long tail body 561 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,440 work, which is very low downforce. 562 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,400 And then we had a short tail body which had more downforce. 563 00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:33,400 I tried both back-to-back and I said, guys, because of the 564 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,760 chicanes and the big breaking areas, we need the short tail. 565 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:45,280 And I remember Tiff, the team, David Sears discussing backwards 566 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,320 and forwards. I said, look, this short tail, 567 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,720 we're not as quick as, you know, some of the cars on the 568 00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:53,200 straight, but we're going to preserve our tyres and our 569 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:57,240 brakes and everything. It's just going to be better. 570 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,720 Sure enough, although we haven't qualified particularly well 571 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:04,560 during the race, we started moving up and up and up and we 572 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,560 finished third. And the the the the factory team 573 00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:12,920 Yost had been running this low drag body work obviously, which 574 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,160 they had raced the previous year, but it was screwing their 575 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:20,080 tyres and that's how we managed to finish on the podium. 576 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,360 So which which car out because you drove the Porsche in you and 577 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,360 do you have go in the Lola as well in the in the prototype? 578 00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:34,400 Cars, the LMP 675 and yeah, I still say to this day that was 579 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,880 my favourite race car of all time. 580 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,320 I mean, obviously the course Group C was a fantastic car, but 581 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:48,880 the Le Mans prototype MG was the best handling car I'd driven and 582 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,240 it was bloody quick. I mean in some it was running to 583 00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:56,680 to different rules from the LMP 900, but over over the last we 584 00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,120 were as quick as the factory audits. 585 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,800 So in the second year, we'd split the factory audits, we 586 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,320 were running third overall. Wow, and that was in 2001, 2002, 587 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,560 wasn't it? Yeah, O2O Zen cars also went 588 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,120 extremely well and. Didn't you get pole in your 589 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,440 class as well for that? Yeah, I did. 590 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,440 In the first year. It was a bit of political 591 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:25,320 shenanigans and Brundell who was Ng Sport and Racing ambassador. 592 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,360 We had to qualify at night because the engine had blown up 593 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,560 on the previous day. And anyway I went out on race 594 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,720 tyres and I think I qualified 6 on race tyres and I was coming 595 00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:42,520 back into the pits to put qualifying tyres on and I reckon 596 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,360 we had a serious shot at pole position overall. 597 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:52,840 The But Mark Blundell told the management don't let Reed out of 598 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,000 the pits on his calling. Fine, because he's going to 599 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:02,360 crash the swine political. Mind you, he'd been shafted by a 600 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:08,680 incentive for years before. So I could go on and talk a 601 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,600 little about, you know, the things I've seen I. 602 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:18,160 Mean I can imagine. The the IT meant we ended up 603 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,680 qualifying 13th because I I wasn't allowed to go out on the 604 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,360 qualiters which were worth 3 seconds a lap. 605 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:33,120 And anyway, I caught up Blundell during the race and passed them 606 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,560 all sounds straight with my middle finger in the air. 607 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,400 Yeah. Brilliant. 608 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:44,040 So and then we ended up running in 3rd place overall in the 609 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,560 middle of the night. Then the car broke down as we 610 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:52,160 knew it would do and so I was in the bar by two O clock. 611 00:41:55,600 --> 00:42:05,360 Not all bad man on TV. In into 1998 Anthony and you got 612 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:09,440 your first win in the British Tour Club Championship outside 613 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:16,040 of the Tourist Trophy victory at that eventful day at Donington 614 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,800 in 1998 where Mansylvania would swept the circuit. 615 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,320 You won the first race that day. Was that really a feeling? 616 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,280 Because it had been. You'd showed a lot of promise of 617 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,160 being fast and being on the pace all season. 618 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,880 That really seemed to kick start your your year and and sort of 619 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:36,440 championship challenge, didn't it? 620 00:42:37,240 --> 00:42:41,440 Yeah, you know, my confidence was growing, my understanding of 621 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:47,680 the car and the the great people we have on the team, my engineer 622 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,840 Stewart, and we're just all gelled. 623 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:58,000 And I had a Japanese mechanic. I, I love Japanese mechanics 624 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:02,040 because they're so meticulous and hard working, do things 625 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:07,720 right. And yeah, that first win was a 626 00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:10,400 fairly straightforward, comfortable win. 627 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,800 And I, I look back, there was a couple of events that happened 628 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:21,360 during that, that season, the 98 season that ultimately meant I 629 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,680 didn't win the championship. And the second race was one of 630 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:31,000 those moments. During the championship, it 631 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,720 started raining and the team came on on onto the radio. 632 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,600 You know, when you're driving a super touring car, it's like 633 00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:44,600 looking through a letterbox, you know, with the, the sunstrip 634 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,920 visor and they said, what tyres do you want? 635 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:53,800 I could see it was raining. I thought only likely and dear 636 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,840 God, I mean even my wife could see that I should have put wet 637 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,320 tyres. But in those days they the 638 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:08,320 option of intermediates, cycle for intermediates. 639 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,000 And got back out into the lead. Everything was fine but the rain 640 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:18,800 started to increase, it got heavier and heavier and that 641 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,440 moment when Mansell came onto my rear bumper, he didn't actually 642 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,120 touch me. The car went off the circuit 643 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:31,360 because of the aquaplaning intermediates can clear, can 644 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,640 handle a certain amount of water, but it is heavy downpour 645 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:39,600 and that caused me to spin off. If if I just call for wets, that 646 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,360 would have been the championship over in terms of looking further 647 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,240 down the road. The other thing that happened 648 00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:49,920 was at Thruxton. Just looking at the date here. 649 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:56,160 Is this is this Oil Gate? Yes, the season opener. 650 00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,920 The season opener. Yeah, it's qualified second 651 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:05,560 because I had a huge moment through church, but I held it 652 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,200 and closed the lap. But Ricard was a bit quicker. 653 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:14,880 He got pole and then as the race started we were neck and neck as 654 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:16,240 we came round. Allard. 655 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,080 Ricard did the old trick. You know, if you're on the 656 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:25,120 outside of somebody and you want to kind of interrupt their flu, 657 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,720 just do a little shimmy with a stirring like that. 658 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:33,720 It's not a corner. And I just lifted slightly and 659 00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:35,680 he got into the lead at the complex. 660 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,000 Well, within two laps I can see where I was going. 661 00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:41,560 It was the old classic Tom Walker trip. 662 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,520 Definitely something was definitely going on. 663 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,320 I've been convinced by this for ages. 664 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,760 And, and of course I had, I couldn't see where I was going 665 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,240 and, and had to come into the pits and that cost me a certain 666 00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:54,880 2nd place. Yes. 667 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,040 And that would have been enough to win the championship. 668 00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:59,320 Yeah, no, I remember that race in particular. 669 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,040 You had to pit twice. And of course with those 670 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,800 windscreens, as soon as you start swiping them, they just 671 00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,000 smear up, don't they? That mixture of oil and the 672 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,200 water and all that. And it probably just made it 10 673 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:12,680 times worse by the end of it all. 674 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,240 And the. Prospects Windscreen. 675 00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:15,920 Wasn't. Yeah, yeah. 676 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,120 So yeah, a couple of times in that year. 677 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,560 Race 2 at Donington, oil gates at Thruxton. 678 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,880 Yeah, there's something like that bloody James Bond film. 679 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,560 Yeah, it did seem that there was definitely something, because 680 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,480 amazingly, the Volvos were the only ones who didn't have 681 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:46,280 anything on their windscreen. Yes, yeah, people like Frank 682 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:50,000 Williams and Tom Walker sure were regular features on Pit Rd. 683 00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:54,720 Yes, yes, yes. Because the teams they they're 684 00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:55,880 more than. That was it. 685 00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,000 And you say before about how high profile things were. 686 00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:03,080 That was a fine example. If if Patrick if if Frank 687 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,320 Williams wasn't there, Patrick Head was there and Tom 688 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,800 Walkinshaw was there and David Richards was there with Honda. 689 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,640 And it it really was, you know, it was who's who of Formula One 690 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,680 almost, you know, Formula One with mudguards. 691 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,640 I fear you've call it before. Yeah. 692 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:27,880 Party Central and the other the other key race in 98 for me, and 693 00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,640 I know we've discussed this before with you, Anthony. 694 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:37,880 Was that Brands Hatch August bank holiday meeting which you 695 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,800 and we talk about Ricard again, you both it was you were 696 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,640 fighting for the title and the tensions were really mounting, 697 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,040 weren't they? Yeah, I, I sort of call it the 698 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:54,280 zenith of Super Touring that weekend, Bank holiday, 31st of 699 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,680 August, you know, mainstream television. 700 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:04,080 Steve Ryder presenting Murray Walker wasn't commentating that 701 00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:09,880 year, but and the F1 drivers mixed in with the touring car 702 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:14,880 stars, you know, so Nigel Mansell, Derek Warwick and 703 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:20,440 Tarquini and the Mcclellans and menus and what have you. 704 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:29,840 And the the needle between Ricard and Eli was intense and 705 00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:35,040 but it stands way back to when we're racing Formal 3 together. 706 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,200 OK, Right. Yeah. 707 00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:45,120 So I, I knew Ricard very well and highly competitive as I was, 708 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:51,640 and, and neither of us were getting an inch, but I'd won the 709 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:56,640 first race. But the feature race, a race 710 00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,000 that I hadn't actually won up until that point. 711 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:03,280 Yeah. And Ricard on this occasion was 712 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:07,520 on pole and he just got into the lead going into Druids. 713 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:09,240 But then he backed me into the field. 714 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:14,360 It was a bit of bumper rubbing. So I was, I was swallowed by the 715 00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,600 clelons and menus and people like that. 716 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,440 But because of the compulsory pit stop I got my head down and 717 00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,280 the car was flying and I overtook loads of people going 718 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,160 into paddock. And then after a great pit stop 719 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:35,000 by Ray Malik with about 3 laps to go I caught Rickard coming 720 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:39,800 into Druids. And what had happened was that 721 00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,520 Top Gear they wanted to do a feature on the success of Super 722 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,520 Touring. So they entered Nissan, entered 723 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,120 1/3 car for Tiffany Dell who was the Top Gear present, one of the 724 00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,800 Top Gear along Clark. But site Clarkson entered in the 725 00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:58,760 third Nissan. So we ever so gently touched 726 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:04,560 coming into the apex at Druids, Ricard had a little shimmy and I 727 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,840 went through on the inside. Then as we came through bottom 728 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:14,960 band there was my third team mate Tiff and he just politely 729 00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:16,880 waved me through and then blocked Ricard. 730 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:24,000 So I won it on the road. Then I got a two second penalty 731 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,160 which then just put me behind Ricard. 732 00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,880 So he, that was the win that got away from me. 733 00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,760 But yeah, no, I mean we came into the collecting area live on 734 00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:39,040 television. Ricard threw a steering wheel 735 00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,360 onto the dash and came over and started to throttling me before 736 00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:43,880 I had a chance to get out of my car. 737 00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,800 But it was all live on television. 738 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,560 They work on got a £2000 fine for that. 739 00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:57,160 Yeah. Because the MSUK do or the RAC 740 00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:04,160 frown on any fisticuffs or. Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 741 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:09,360 Looking back at that move now, I mean, I, I don't think there's 742 00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:10,880 that much. I mean, there's a. 743 00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,200 Little bit of contact, but I'm not sure it was quite as 744 00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,680 dramatic as Ricard seemed to think it was. 745 00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,480 Ricard made. Out I I I practically murdered 746 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,680 him or. Something Ricard was a bit like 747 00:51:23,720 --> 00:51:24,960 that. He did love a bit of a bone 748 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:26,080 though, didn't he? He did. 749 00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:31,400 Yeah. So the the thing was that like 750 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:36,000 all the top cars, what the Nissan, for example, you know, 751 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:40,840 the front plastic bumper and also the rear bumper, they had a 752 00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,320 sort of cow bar. Well, it was basically roll 753 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:47,800 tubing which profiled the inside of the bumper and bolted onto 754 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:52,280 the chassis legs. So if somebody was trying to 755 00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:58,800 brake test you, they'd be fired off like the golf ball being hit 756 00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,640 by a drive. Yeah, I remember that year, 757 00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:06,920 John, the John Clelands usual shenanigans. 758 00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:09,560 I was leading. He was second. 759 00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:14,560 It was wet and coming. This is at Donington. 760 00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:19,400 And coming into the chicane, the safety car had been called 761 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,880 outside, sort of backed off a bit and he tried to pump me off 762 00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:29,600 by hitting the back of my car. Yes, she came and but my car 763 00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:31,400 just was just like a light nudge. 764 00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,280 But when I looked in the mirror, the front of John's car was 765 00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,120 plastered up over his windscreen. 766 00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,800 And yet probably retiring the spot my car carried on 767 00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:46,840 regardless without any damage. The all these sort of memories 768 00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,720 come back, you know, of all the crazy things that used to occur. 769 00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,360 It's like the start of the can opener, Anthony. 770 00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:59,200 Matt Neil's a master of that. If somebody turns in slightly 771 00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,400 late for clearways, he fires it up the inside at a speed which 772 00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:06,680 would mean normally he'd slide off the racing line but just 773 00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:10,200 gently nudge the car that had left the door open, which would 774 00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,280 keep him offline and he'd go through. 775 00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,440 Yeah. So the the Volvo also had this 776 00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:23,520 roll cage at the back, so we never so slightly touched, but 777 00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,280 it was enough to make them have a chilli and I passed them on 778 00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,360 the inside. In my book that's completely 779 00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:30,240 fair. But. 780 00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:34,600 Yeah. I I, I didn't quite get, I mean, 781 00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,040 there was some moves that year that certainly were worse than 782 00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,120 that and they didn't really seem to do anything. 783 00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:44,640 But yeah, I guess, I guess the the drama of a championship 784 00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:48,280 finale put a bit more focus. On that I'm sure breathing. 785 00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:53,200 That that also, yeah. Won the title up until that 786 00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:54,960 point. Yes, of course. 787 00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:56,480 Yeah, I. Don't know how politics plays 788 00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,200 out? That's true, absolutely. 789 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:05,480 Yeah, the IT was a sell out crowd because I mean worse than 790 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,320 how it is now. I mean, if you weren't in the 791 00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,680 circuit by 7:00 in the morning, you were stuck in a massive 792 00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:17,320 queue outside the track. And I got as far as the big 793 00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,040 roundabout on top of the M25. I've been got up a little bit 794 00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,880 late from the hotel and the queue was all the way back to 795 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:28,240 there. And so I made a quick phone 796 00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:29,800 call. One of my mechanics had a 797 00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,440 motorbike, so he came out and picked me up. 798 00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:35,680 I just dumped the car on the roundabout, just left it there. 799 00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,960 He picked me up on his motorbike and I made it in time for warm 800 00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:45,160 up. Yeah, that day it was all those 801 00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,720 elements to to, to me made it just one of the great weekends 802 00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,880 of that sort of era. Yeah, I was at that meeting and 803 00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,680 it was very much a case of it. You're right. 804 00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:58,440 It was the the zenith. It was. 805 00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:03,040 The crowd was absolutely packed to the capacity. 806 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,120 It was crazing. The sub was shining. 807 00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,280 As you say, the queues to get into the circuits were just 808 00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:13,560 crazy. It really was the peak of 809 00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:15,680 touring car racing. Super Touring. 810 00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:21,360 Yeah, it's yeah, you're right. It was super top. 811 00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:25,360 Gear feature again, that's on YouTube. 812 00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:31,960 But yes, at one point TIFF and Nigel Mansell, we're having a 813 00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,480 bit of a set to in the paddock. I don't know if you remember 814 00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,920 that at the back of the pits because they've never been the 815 00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:46,280 best of friends ever since Tiff had well, Nigel, Tiff reckons 816 00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:51,120 that Nigel nicked his British Leyland former three drive and 817 00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,760 all those years before. I mean, the car was a bit of a 818 00:55:55,760 --> 00:56:02,520 dog, but just, you know, sliding doors, fate. 819 00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:06,400 The next race that Nigel did in that car, which Tiff had 820 00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:10,120 basically given up on, happened to be wet. 821 00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,400 And I think it was Silverstone and it finished on the podium. 822 00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:14,760 Yes. Yeah. 823 00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:16,800 It's. You know, yeah. 824 00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:19,960 That's life. It's. 825 00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,160 Amazing. So at the end of your Nissan 826 00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,680 time, he then obviously switches manufacture. 827 00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:30,280 How did that, going over to Pro Drive, going over to the Mondeo 828 00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:34,000 and the 14 now, how did that all sort of come about? 829 00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,520 Is that something that started whilst you're still with Nissan? 830 00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,840 It was very much at the end of the season, offseason, through 831 00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:43,520 the winter. So kind of in the summer that 832 00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,640 year, I was approached by Pro Drive. 833 00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:51,240 The thing about motor racing is if you're lucky enough to get 834 00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:59,320 paid well, yeah, the I had a young family at the time, so 835 00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:01,840 you've got to think of their future too. 836 00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:05,440 And basically Ford, you know, you're a long time retired and 837 00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:11,240 motor racing, although somehow I'm still racing, intend to 838 00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:15,960 retire. But you know, I had to think of 839 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:20,520 the future and finances and stuff and Ford made me an offer 840 00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:25,800 that, well, I mean, I believe Frank Williams said at the time 841 00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:32,920 I wouldn't even pay my F1 drivers that much money because 842 00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:37,280 menu obviously left Williams. He got a great offer, I got a 843 00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:40,360 great offer and we, you know, combined salaries were over 844 00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:47,520 £1,000,000 or something. So difficult to resist that. 845 00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,720 I mean, the, the, the shame of it was that I had such a great 846 00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:55,640 relationship with Nissan. Alec Poole, Kyoki Sam, who's in 847 00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:58,720 charge of Nissan Motor Sport Europe, Ray Malik. 848 00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:05,840 And I knew that Nissan was going to pull out at the end of the 849 00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,640 following year. Somebody said that that the 850 00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:13,720 budget exceeded the entire year's profit that they made 851 00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:20,360 Nissan selling cars in Britain. Wow, was Bob Neville told me 852 00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:23,880 that. And and I thought, yeah, but 853 00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:26,120 Ford, we're going to be in it for another two years. 854 00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:30,640 And I thought, OK, next year is not going to be great and I'll 855 00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:34,120 miss the opportunity of perhaps winning the championship for 856 00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,360 Nissan. But they were going to carry on 857 00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:42,840 into 2000s. And I felt that I, you know, 858 00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:49,240 could win in the second year, which of course I nearly did. 859 00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:53,880 But the problem was the Nissan had my DNA in it and it really 860 00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:58,720 suited my driving style, whereas the Ford was more sort of Alan 861 00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:05,320 Menus driving style and it didn't really have my DNA Alan 862 00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,280 and taken a number of people from Renault. 863 00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:09,880 Yes. To to pro Drive. 864 00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,960 But you know, I missed that by a couple of points. 865 00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:21,160 I mean the pro pro drive fantastic team and you know, the 866 00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:26,520 most advanced super touring car I ever drove in the fastest. 867 00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:31,480 But the driving the way it was balanced didn't quite suit me. 868 00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:35,120 It was a bit too knife edgy at the rear because the Nissan 869 00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:42,960 flowed great rotation but nonetheless what what an 870 00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,680 experience driving for Ford. We learnt all about the 871 00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:52,560 importance of vehicle dynamics, polar moment of inertia, dynamic 872 00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:56,800 index because they were able to build the cars 120 kilogrammes 873 00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:00,080 under the weight limit and then we could ballast up. 874 01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:01,480 Put the light where you wanted it. 875 01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:06,080 Yeah, and what what a difference that made, you know, C of G, 876 01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:10,120 centre of gravity, dynamic index. 877 01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:12,200 Yeah. Well, what I did discover was 878 01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,600 although the car was easier with the weight further out at the 879 01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,520 front and at the rear, it was easier to drive, more 880 01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,240 predictable. It just killed your race 881 01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:24,760 evolution because it's, it's the like the difference between a 882 01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:29,280 dumbbell and a barbell during the course of a race kind of 883 01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,600 tell a turn a barbell through asses and corners would just 884 01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,480 shag the tyres. So you had to have the weight in 885 01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:39,680 the middle and the car was more nervous, but it over a race 886 01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:41,600 distance it was much more consistent. 887 01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:45,880 Yeah. Yeah, so I learnt a lot of that 888 01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:51,560 vehicle dynamics with my days at I. 889 01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,240 I can imagine. Yeah, it must. 890 01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:55,640 Have been a hell of an experience because you've gone 891 01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:58,640 obviously you've got mallocs which are absolutely one of the 892 01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:02,200 best there's ever been and ever will be, and the same with Pro 893 01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,480 Drive as well. So to go from 1 mega fantastic 894 01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:09,240 team and a setup to another must be obviously it's perfect from a 895 01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:12,680 racing driver's perspective, but what was there any key 896 01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,840 differences in terms of like the management side of that and and 897 01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,080 how the teams will run or they're very similar the. 898 01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:24,400 Ray Malik My time at Nissan was my favourite period. 899 01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:29,360 Selling touring cars shears the way we gelled as a team. 900 01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:33,280 Lots of young engineers, mechanics, clever people. 901 01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:40,600 But two years later, working for Prodrive, there are more kind of 902 01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:43,560 cutthroat, which doesn't bother me at all. 903 01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:46,120 I mean, I want people can help me win races. 904 01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:52,240 Yeah, yeah, They, they, it wasn't quite such a friendly 905 01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,720 atmosphere, I would say a Prodrive, but it highly 906 01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:59,840 professional and they, they win at just about everything they 907 01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:03,960 do. And yeah, when they had a human 908 01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:08,920 performance department. So they they work not only on 909 01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:13,080 the cars, but on the drivers fitness and, you know, like boot 910 01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:18,840 camps in New Yorker and France's and dry, you know, and, and, and 911 01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:22,800 you know, training with people like Richard Burns and Uha 912 01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:29,000 Kanken because they'd and UHA Kanken were all dropped to the 913 01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,240 back of the peloton, drew on the pipes. 914 01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:36,680 And then suddenly and him, his teammate, I'd see them later in 915 01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:41,240 the evening, his Co driver. Oh, we just went down to visit 916 01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:50,000 some cousins in the port. Nefarious activities. 917 01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:54,120 Yes, yeah. So I mean, Pro drive is right up 918 01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:57,880 there, but I, I probably, you know, enjoy being with RML 919 01:02:57,880 --> 01:02:59,760 better. But you know, two years, things 920 01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:05,320 change a lot in the development of cars and they were working at 921 01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:08,320 a new higher level. I've been with Cosworth, had 922 01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:14,280 been the tuner of the engine in the first year with Ford and 923 01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,880 Prodrive, just stick an axe to Cosworth and started doing the 924 01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:21,840 engines in the house. And that was transformational, 925 01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:27,240 yeah, suddenly the engines became really fast and but 926 01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:30,000 Prodrive had that speed of adaptability. 927 01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,400 If something's not working, they'll deal with it 928 01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:40,040 immediately, change it, and yes. I imagine a lot of that come 929 01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,640 came from their rally experience as well because obviously that's 930 01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,760 a very fast-paced environment. There's a lot of rounds of the 931 01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:48,840 championship breakages reacting to stuff. 932 01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:51,120 You know, they're used to a faster pace environment. 933 01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:54,720 I think between races that probably helps. 934 01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:57,280 Yeah, yeah. No, I think you're absolutely 935 01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:02,280 right there. So 2 great experiences working 936 01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:06,720 with the top teams in motorsport, British motorsport 937 01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:10,320 and then having the privilege of working with Dick Bennett's. 938 01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:15,240 Yeah, yeah, yeah. If MG. 939 01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:17,840 Yeah. Yeah. 940 01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:19,960 Absolutely. I used to take the piss out of 941 01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:24,680 Dick a little bit because you'd go into his office and he had a 942 01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:29,640 filing cabinet full of all the years and the drivers, you know, 943 01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:36,560 right, full scalp. But there was this red folder on 944 01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:43,800 top of the filing cabinet which just said 80 Senna 1983. 945 01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:46,440 Wow, was it 80? 4. 946 01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:49,400 Anyone that. When they won F3, yeah. 947 01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:53,000 So a bit like a bit like I said that you're a bit like my 948 01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:55,680 father. He won't talk about the war. 949 01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:02,560 He was quite happy to talk about Mika Hakkinen, Yeah, all these 950 01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:05,320 famous, but he would never talk about seller. 951 01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:12,960 Interesting. Reason not really no, he was 952 01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,640 quite come out with all the stories of the other drivers 953 01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:20,400 Yeah, but that's folder on top of the fight it it'll probably 954 01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:25,960 be there still there to. Wow, yeah, that's really 955 01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:28,960 interesting. Is it that that year, it's such 956 01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:32,960 a pivotal year of W Surrey as well, you know, winning the 1983 957 01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:36,480 Championship with, with him so. Yeah, Yeah. 958 01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:39,360 That's interesting, that one and it's another. 959 01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:43,400 They all have their own styles, these top teams. 960 01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:48,000 Dick Bennett's style was a little different from the others 961 01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:51,600 and but all at at an equally high level. 962 01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:53,640 Quite amazing. Yeah. 963 01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:55,520 Yeah, yeah. Interesting. 964 01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:01,760 Just just to touch on, you mentioned that you knew when you 965 01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:04,160 made the decision to leave Nissan for Ford, you knew that 966 01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,640 that Nissan would be pulling out at the end of 99. 967 01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,160 I don't mean something we really touched on when we we first 968 01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:11,640 spoke. Any other times you've spoken 969 01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:14,960 with you given that you knew that? 970 01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,440 And then at the end of 98, we'd already seen Peugeot and Audi 971 01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:20,880 pull out. Did you kind of had this? 972 01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:24,320 Did you kind of have this feeling that you knew at the end 973 01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:26,920 of that Ford contract potentially the the touring car 974 01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:30,520 landscape would look as different as it ended up looking 975 01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:35,000 going into 2001, 2002 that you then had with with SRV races and 976 01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:37,440 MG? Or was it kind of something that 977 01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:41,080 you thought teams will pull out, that someone might replace them 978 01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:46,360 or it will evolve in a slightly more less dramatic way than it 979 01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:53,000 did perhaps? Yeah, See, inevitably you hear 980 01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:57,200 people talking the whether it be the sponsors, manufacturers. 981 01:06:57,200 --> 01:06:59,120 I could see the direction of travel. 982 01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:03,840 I kind of sensed at the end of 2000 that would be the end of 983 01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:06,600 Super Touring. And then of course, Alan Guy 984 01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:11,960 brought in the new generation touring car, which was far less 985 01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:19,280 sophisticated and but by by racing for Ford, I put myself in 986 01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:24,320 the frame with MG and yes, thanks to Tony Blair. 987 01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:31,080 And I don't normally vote for Labour because there was a big 988 01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,760 election coming up at the beginning of. 989 01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:38,000 Yeah, there wasn't. No one. 990 01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:40,480 Wasn't there? Yeah, 2. 1001, yeah. 991 01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:46,040 And BMW just wanted to wind up the MG, the MG Rover company. 992 01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:52,320 Tony Blair and Gordon Brown went up and had a meeting with BMW 993 01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:55,680 and said, look, you can't, you can't wind up MG Rover because 994 01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:59,600 they're going to be 50,000 people unemployed in the streets 995 01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:03,080 of warming. And so they was. 996 01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:09,240 The BMW were persuaded by Tony Blair to sell out to the Phoenix 997 01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:14,080 Consortium for Individuals, John Towers and what have you. 998 01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:22,640 And also give them a billion # legacy, sort of, yeah. 999 01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:25,600 Handshake. If that hadn't happened, we 1000 01:08:26,279 --> 01:08:28,960 wouldn't have gone racing with MG can tell you that. 1001 01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:32,080 No, at Le Mans and also in British touring cars. 1002 01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:36,240 But again, sliding doors. Who could have predicted that? 1003 01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:41,080 But so I'd been, because I'd sensed that this was kind of 1004 01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:43,200 happening from what you hear in the sport. 1005 01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:47,399 I, I, I'd sort of, I knew Mars and Bahrain anyway. 1006 01:08:47,399 --> 01:08:49,000 But I've kept some regular contact. 1007 01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:52,359 Yeah. So when that deal happens, I 1008 01:08:52,359 --> 01:08:55,800 slid out of the Ford contract and straight away into the MG 1009 01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:57,880 Rover. Nice. 1010 01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:02,560 Pretty, pretty bloody amazing. Yeah, yeah, that that, that 1011 01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:05,760 first year of the MG, you actually stopped Vauxhall 1012 01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:08,680 winning the whitewash of the series, didn't you? 1013 01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:13,600 Because you won that last race in the ZS at Brands Hatch in 1014 01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:18,200 that absolutely downpour that that weather was just horrific 1015 01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:22,680 and you pulled it off on slicks. Yeah, the extraordinary thing 1016 01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:26,040 was I arrived at the circuit early in the morning and there 1017 01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:29,800 were were all the Vauxhalls lined up with all of the 1018 01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:33,920 trophies and the press shots being taken. 1019 01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:36,640 It was also going to go into the press the following morning. 1020 01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:42,600 So they they've won everything. And so I thought this is motor 1021 01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:46,279 racing. You can never tell what my but 1022 01:09:46,279 --> 01:09:50,680 in the NGTC rules everyone had to have five wheel nuts. 1023 01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:56,280 That's right, yes. So when it started raining, I 1024 01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:59,160 figured out very quickly, short lap, I could put everyone a lap 1025 01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:02,240 down, which is exactly what I did by just staying out. 1026 01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:08,360 Warren came into the pits to put Wets on but I stayed out and 1027 01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:12,320 fortunately was it. James Case spun off and got 1028 01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:16,320 stuck in the gravel just at the end of the race as the Vauxhall 1029 01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:20,000 still catching me up and of course red flag and the result 1030 01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:25,160 was declared on the previous lap which I am leading and Vauxhall 1031 01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:30,200 were really pissed off. All that effort, you know, shots 1032 01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:32,640 and they couldn't use him. Brilliant. 1033 01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:37,120 I love stories like that. And another another race that I 1034 01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:40,840 think we should talk about in in in your career is that very 1035 01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:45,680 special 2004 one off race that they did at the Donington finale 1036 01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:52,960 where they celebrated the BTCC Masters where all 16 there were 1037 01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:55,880 16 drivers from the era of Super Touring. 1038 01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:59,240 All the drivers that won the championships were invited and 1039 01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:02,840 all other other star names were invited, which of course you 1040 01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:03,760 were. You were one of. 1041 01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:09,960 And 16 of you entered in identical lay ONS. 1042 01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:12,000 I believe it was a lay on. Yeah. 1043 01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:16,880 And one of the most entertaining races I think I've ever watched. 1044 01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:18,560 Ever. It's a carnage, wasn't it? 1045 01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:24,160 Let's put all these these household name nut cases all in 1046 01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:28,320 the same manufactured car. I didn't know it was a good 1047 01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:29,880 advert for Seattle or not, to be honest. 1048 01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:36,320 I. Mean it's got a ring about it. 1049 01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:41,280 The BTCC Masters, they're like the Augusta Masters. 1050 01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:46,480 George Yes. You know, if you look at the 1051 01:11:46,480 --> 01:11:53,800 roll call of veins in that race, yes, I mean, it's not much 1052 01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:59,120 talked about these days, but that that trophy is pride of 1053 01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:01,520 place in in my living room. Excellent. 1054 01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:06,400 It's a real blingy trophy, but I'm actually really quite proud 1055 01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:08,560 of it. And of course, YouTube, you can 1056 01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:10,520 you can watch it on YouTube the whole race. 1057 01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:18,480 So I'm, I'm, I'm proud of that because we're all theoretically 1058 01:12:18,480 --> 01:12:24,440 in identical cars and some of the best names in the Super 1059 01:12:24,440 --> 01:12:28,080 Touring era were in that race. Yes, yeah, they really were. 1060 01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:31,720 And I won it. Yeah, you talk of like you say 1061 01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:33,480 the roll call. I will name them now. 1062 01:12:33,480 --> 01:12:37,800 It's you add John Cleland, you Julian Bailey, Patrick Watts, 1063 01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:41,280 Jason Plato, Matt Neal, Kelvin Burke, Johnny Cicotto, Alan 1064 01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:45,360 Menu, Tim Harvey, Frank Beeler, Jeff Allen, Rob Gravitt, Frank 1065 01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:50,600 Sitner, Paul Radicich, Gabrielli Tarquini, all all top, top class 1066 01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:55,760 touring car drivers that won races in that era of Super 1067 01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:59,360 Touring throughout Europe and throughout the globe. 1068 01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:05,120 Yeah, just what a what a what a list of names and, and yeah, to 1069 01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:07,520 see you triumphed out of them all. 1070 01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:10,880 I, I, I can see why you're so why you're so proud of it. 1071 01:13:11,440 --> 01:13:18,280 Yeah, the I've got a great photograph of myself on the top 1072 01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:21,960 step of the podium with Alan Menu and Tarquini next to me. 1073 01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:33,080 Yeah, yeah, it's very cool. Anthony, tell us a little bit 1074 01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:35,520 more about about your time at Goodwood. 1075 01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:43,640 Yeah, I mean my my profile which developed by Racing Super 1076 01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:52,160 Touring and winning lead on to my racing at Google do over the 1077 01:13:52,160 --> 01:13:54,720 last 25 years. Yes, of course, yeah. 1078 01:13:55,000 --> 01:14:00,440 I'm just ordered a house captaincy, absolutely the 1079 01:14:00,440 --> 01:14:07,400 members meeting. So it's strange with the way 1080 01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:12,000 things develop and, and I mean racing at Goodwood has extended 1081 01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:13,800 my career by 10 years and counting. 1082 01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:16,400 As I say, 2 weeks ago I was racing at Capri. 1083 01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:19,520 Yeah, it's related to Silica. Yes. 1084 01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:24,920 Along some side some of the big names, so super great names. 1085 01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:31,400 So that's that's been a lovely way to because I'm about to turn 1086 01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:40,040 68 in two weeks and wow, Goodwood has been just a great 1087 01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:44,040 way to sort of finish off my career. 1088 01:14:44,440 --> 01:14:46,760 Yeah. And hopefully keep missing that 1089 01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:52,640 for a number of years to come. For for someone that's not been 1090 01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:57,000 to a Goodwood meeting before for that festival of speeds revival 1091 01:14:57,000 --> 01:15:01,160 members meeting, myself being one of those included, I 1092 01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:02,760 definitely want to occur at some point. 1093 01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:07,360 What is it that makes that place so seemingly special? 1094 01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:10,240 Even someone that's not been, it seems like, you know, you 1095 01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:13,640 mentioned like a a customer national in golf and so on. 1096 01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:15,320 What? What makes Goodwood feel like 1097 01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:19,360 such a special venue for motorsport for you? 1098 01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:25,760 Well, Pete, given that Goodwood in motor racing terms has a 1099 01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:33,040 fantastic history between 1948 and 1966 with drivers like 1100 01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:38,920 Sterling Moss, Graham Hill, Boy Salvadori, Dan Gurney, they all 1101 01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:44,200 raced there in periods. And then to have this bull, the 1102 01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:47,520 events that are put on by Goodwood are totally unique 1103 01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:50,120 globally. There's nothing white at that 1104 01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:53,400 level. It's the pinnacle, especially 1105 01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:59,080 the if you go to to Revival. Yeah, it it everyone dresses up 1106 01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:05,320 in periods costumed from the the the period 48 to 66. 1107 01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:09,840 And only six, Yeah. All the races are recreated from 1108 01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:15,040 that period too. So the the cars have to be, you 1109 01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:19,640 know, 66 or older in order to be available. 1110 01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:23,840 And it's by invitation only. And it attracts the top names in 1111 01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:26,200 motorsport. I mean, I've seen them all 1112 01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:29,600 there, Sterling Moss, Jackie Stewart, Roy Salvadori and the 1113 01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:33,840 list goes on and on. Sadly some of those individuals 1114 01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:39,120 are no longer with us but and the sort of younger professional 1115 01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:42,800 drivers like Tom Christensen and people like that, they all want 1116 01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:46,840 to be at the event and everyone wants an entry, but it's by 1117 01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:49,880 invitation only. Yes, it's highly exclusive. 1118 01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:56,800 And you know, the, the, the parties, the socialising that 1119 01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:59,720 takes place. Any fantastic racing. 1120 01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:01,400 I don't know if you watched members meeting. 1121 01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:04,520 Yes, yeah. TV, there was some it's great 1122 01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:06,320 races. There really. 1123 01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:10,400 Is Members Meeting is a sort of revivalist period? 1124 01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:12,600 Yeah, of course. You've got the Goodwood Fest of 1125 01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:19,000 Speed, which I've won four times, twice outright, twice in 1126 01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:22,680 the still the power she's had. I love that event too. 1127 01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:28,240 And then members meeting is it's much more of a pure racing 1128 01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:30,640 meeting and not so commercialised. 1129 01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:32,840 It's run by the. Members. 1130 01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:35,040 Yeah. Yeah, it's yeah. 1131 01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:40,840 And quintessentially English, you know, all the field sports 1132 01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:45,360 because if you take the family to a race meeting, of course the 1133 01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:47,400 people that are racing the cars have a lot of fun. 1134 01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:50,040 But what what do the other members of the family do? 1135 01:17:50,480 --> 01:17:53,080 Well, with the members meeting, they've got all these 1136 01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:57,560 quintessentially English field sports like tug of war, croquet, 1137 01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:01,480 axe burn, they're baiting president. 1138 01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:08,400 But you know, I've done ferret racing and duck herding and if 1139 01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:11,640 the weather's nice, all the family, the members get involved 1140 01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:13,720 and they're scoring points for their house. 1141 01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:21,160 And so in 10 years as a House captain, one year was disrupted 1142 01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:24,600 by COVID. But my house, Matthew, and is 1143 01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:26,320 the winning most House of all. The house. 1144 01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:31,920 If we won five out of nine editions of the House Shield, 1145 01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:36,080 they'd call it. Yes, yeah, no, it's it's 1146 01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:40,480 incredible how, as you say, your profile that you garnered during 1147 01:18:40,480 --> 01:18:45,280 the Super Touring era has that's done you so much good later on. 1148 01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:48,800 I mean, you talk of other there's other types of historic 1149 01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:50,600 racing. For the last two years you've 1150 01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:54,360 raced your 98 Nissan at Brands Hatch for super towing power. 1151 01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:57,840 I mean, I bet you never thought in 98 that you'd be racing the 1152 01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:02,880 same car nearly 30 years later on one of the same tracks. 1153 01:19:03,480 --> 01:19:07,560 Well, that's quite extraordinary because most of the people 1154 01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:11,880 working on that car, yeah, wow, weren't even born. 1155 01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:21,120 Yeah, just the way things have turned out. 1156 01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:24,880 You can be granted, but it's such fun. 1157 01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:28,440 Yeah, it's it, it, it was really special. 1158 01:19:28,440 --> 01:19:32,800 And what I loved about it is obviously big shout out to the 1159 01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:35,880 guys at John Danby, because they looked after us at the, at the 1160 01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:37,640 last two meetings that we've been to. 1161 01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:39,800 They've been really great, great, really great to us. 1162 01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:45,080 Really, really hospitable. But also it just the way that 1163 01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:47,920 the, the, the, the, the team were presented. 1164 01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:51,000 You still have the backboards, you still had all the kits, the 1165 01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:54,400 uniforms, the the cars are immaculately prepared. 1166 01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:56,560 And he still has his team jacket, which you. 1167 01:19:56,560 --> 01:20:00,520 Proudly wore jacket. Yeah, it was incredible. 1168 01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:02,840 It felt like you were transformed back. 1169 01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:06,880 Going back into the road, it was a little bit like going back in 1170 01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:09,560 time and nostalgia that was there for me. 1171 01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:17,080 It was incredible. Anthony, once again, thank you 1172 01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:21,080 for joining us this evening to look back at your incredible 50 1173 01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:25,040 years of motorsport. If I could just finally pinpoint 1174 01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:29,400 1 moment of your career that you look at as your most fond, 1175 01:20:29,480 --> 01:20:31,960 fondly remembered, you talk about your time at Nissan. 1176 01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:33,920 Is, is that through your whole career? 1177 01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:37,800 Is that is that the moment that you love the most during your 50 1178 01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:39,800 years? Well, there's so many 1179 01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:44,440 interesting things that have happened throughout my time in 1180 01:20:44,440 --> 01:20:49,280 Japan. My favourite period was in with 1181 01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:52,600 respect to Super Touring was racing for Ray Malik. 1182 01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:54,360 Yeah. And Alex Poole. 1183 01:20:54,480 --> 01:21:00,920 Yeah, the was my immediate boss. But there was a race that 1184 01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:03,520 changed my life. Not, not not finishing third Le 1185 01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:08,040 Mans so much, but I won the main support race the previous year 1186 01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:13,680 at the British Grand Prix for Opal in an Opal Lotus. 1187 01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:17,840 OK, Opal, Lotus, Vauxhall Lotus was the main support race to the 1188 01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:21,440 British Grand Prix because presumably Opal had paid. 1189 01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:25,080 You can write sort of money to. Yes, yeah. 1190 01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:30,160 The F3 race was the previous day, but we were on the circuits 1191 01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:34,440 a couple of hours or an hour before the the British Grand 1192 01:21:34,440 --> 01:21:41,040 Prix and I put my last money into Peter Thompson that I had 1193 01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:45,240 at that time to buy a drive and I stuck it on pole and won it 1194 01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:51,760 TAB against some great names of that time, the best of the 1195 01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:57,800 Europeans and somebody called Bose Scramdel watched it on 1196 01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:02,120 cable or satellite television. Whatever it was in those days 1197 01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:06,920 was live. And he phoned me up and said, 1198 01:22:06,920 --> 01:22:10,120 look, we're putting together a Group C team, would you like to 1199 01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:13,040 come down to Monza for a driver or audition test? 1200 01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:16,240 OK. And I went down for that test, 1201 01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:21,760 won the audition, got signed up. And that meant on to me racing 1202 01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:25,440 at the mall summer of the following year. 1203 01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:28,840 Yeah. There's one thing, one race that 1204 01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:32,600 changed my life. It probably was that because 1205 01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:34,760 otherwise the opportunity, I wouldn't have got that phone 1206 01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:36,160 call. Yeah, absolutely. 1207 01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:40,880 In fact, my brother, who rarely ever takes messages or did in 1208 01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:45,200 those days, wrote down the guy's name and the telephone number. 1209 01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:50,800 I got in. I must have gone out to the 1210 01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:52,680 public. So when I got in, I phoned up 1211 01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:54,840 the following morning. It's a good job you called 1212 01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:58,480 because otherwise we're going to call the next guy on the list. 1213 01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:03,760 Wow. And it's all stand flowed from 1214 01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:07,960 that, that sort of final row of device. 1215 01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:10,880 Wow. It's it's little stories like 1216 01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:14,480 that that amaze me, isn't it? All these little what if moments 1217 01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:16,240 that just, yeah. What if your brother hadn't 1218 01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:17,960 taken that message or whatnot, you know? 1219 01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:21,400 But yeah. But again, Anthony, just thank 1220 01:23:21,400 --> 01:23:23,040 you so much for joining us today. 1221 01:23:23,480 --> 01:23:26,200 Coming on the show again, You're always a, you're always a fan 1222 01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:28,120 favourite whenever, whenever you come on the show. 1223 01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:31,800 And thanks for giving us your time today and celebrating all 1224 01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:34,800 things Anthony Reed in your 50 years of motorsport. 1225 01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:36,760 Thanks guys. Thanks, Alex. 1226 01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:40,120 It's great. Thank you too, for listening to 1227 01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:42,200 this week's episode of Stories for Super Toy. 1228 01:23:42,840 --> 01:23:45,000 Please make sure you'll join us again next week. 1229 01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:46,080 Goodbye.