1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:18,600 Stories from Super Touring. Hello and welcome back to 2 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,560 Stories from Super Touring, the podcast where we dive deep into 3 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,440 the golden era of touring car racing one story at a time. 4 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,840 Now, today's episode marks the start of Series 6, and trust me, 5 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,479 we're kicking things off in style. 6 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,280 Our special guest for this first episode of the series is a name 7 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,600 synonymous with excitement, energy, and unforgettable 8 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,080 commentary. It's none other than Charlie 9 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,360 Cox. Charlie, we've been trying to 10 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,040 get you on the show for quite some time now, and we've managed 11 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,520 it finally. Thank you for joining us this 12 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:50,800 evening. How are you? 13 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,960 G day mate, I'm fine thank you. 8 this morning, of course. 14 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,280 You're on the other side of the world. 15 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,800 It's a bit foggy out there, but it's going to be 32° and sunny 16 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,040 once the mist burns off, so I'm just I'm just getting ready. 17 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,280 Well, thank you for joining us this evening or this morning. 18 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,160 I'm going to do that. One of us was really tired and 19 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,640 I'm over on the other one. The other one is just tired. 20 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,760 You can work it out. Hopefully I get that out of the 21 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,840 system by the end of this evening and they start the 22 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,640 start. Charlie, how did you get 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,760 involved in Motorsports? Were you interested in 24 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,480 motorsport as a child? Is it something that came along 25 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,120 later? How did you get into the sport 26 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,320 originally? I would like like a lot of kids 27 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,200 when I got toys as a kid, if it didn't have a wheel on it, I 28 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,840 wasn't interested. You know, that's all 29 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,200 fascinating, dad, but I want a car or I want a toy truck or it 30 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,600 had to have wheels on it. Then I was happy as a soundboy 31 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,160 without that, not a chance. So always loved it. 32 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,480 I come from very humble background, so we didn't have 33 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,280 any money to buy race cars and stuff. 34 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,200 So we used to build our own Billy carts and then we get and 35 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,880 we where we lived there were super steep hills including 36 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,360 Waimea Hill and Billy Cart Hill and we have crashes and fire 37 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,840 each other into the scenery. So I always wanted to do more 38 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:11,880 couldn't and we worked out how to engineer motor motor engines 39 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,240 into scooters, you know, pump up scooters and we'd make our own 40 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,160 motorbikes. I mean, it's amazing. 41 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,760 I've still got a leg on both sides actually did all of that 42 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,480 stuff all good. Wanted to go racing, couldn't. 43 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,720 So I had to wait until I could get into, I got involved with 44 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,520 lack dashes and hill climbs and things like that where you could 45 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,080 run, run what you're brung and then drive it home again unless 46 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,640 you'd whack it. So I did that work my way 47 00:02:36,640 --> 00:02:39,720 through that and then got into racing in the 80s in Australia 48 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,200 and it was serious production. I didn't I didn't like that 49 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,840 stuff without a roof on it get rained on no good. 50 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,480 So stearic series production stuff. 51 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,560 Mazda rotaries were the thing of the day. 52 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:57,640 So Savannah rotaries, brilliant cars and and then of course you 53 00:02:57,640 --> 00:03:01,280 have to have Aussie V eights, SO5 litre V eights, right, 54 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,480 sprinting those and then later racing those and along the way 55 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,800 through I I finished up doing 3 bathursts in Australia, which is 56 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,600 about the most exciting thing I've ever done. 57 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,200 They were they were great. That's cool yeah, absolutely 58 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,560 brilliant. So did that the racing was going 59 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,480 well. I was working in media, I'm a 60 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,080 journalist by trade so I was radio guy. 61 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,640 So I was running a a News Radio station in Sydney that was 62 00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:30,320 terrific and I got offered the job to run LBC in London and all 63 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:31,280 fire. All well and good. 64 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,800 I wasn't that bothered by that, but I was desperately great to 65 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,440 England to go racing because that was the measure of 66 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,040 yourself. It's all very well doing OK at 67 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,440 Oran Park or Amaru Park, places you've never heard of and don't 68 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,080 exist anymore. But you know, to race the 69 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:50,160 Silverstone, to race at Brands hats, you know, that was the way 70 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:51,520 forward. That was my dream. 71 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,120 So I took the job to go racing, but I didn't mention that to my 72 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,920 then employers and scraped some money together. 73 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:03,400 And I'd never been to any of the circuits, but I had a friend out 74 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,880 here who supported me and wanted me to, thought I had something. 75 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:12,880 So he helped me and I rented a Porsche, an old battered RS73 76 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,839 replica and just did a variety of different races just to learn 77 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,279 the circuits. So if if the criteria was has to 78 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:25,360 be a track I haven't raced on, which was so exciting and, and 79 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,720 that was brilliant. So, and that's how I got into 80 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:29,200 it. And that first year in the UK 81 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,600 went really well and I ended up winning stuff. 82 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,560 So that's how I got sponsorship from Ford to to do the Saloon 83 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,000 car Championship. So. 84 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,080 That's right, because you you did two years in the National 85 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:45,640 Saloon Car Cup with the the Escort Cosworth. 86 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,640 Yeah, yeah. I loved, I loved that 87 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,680 championship, love the love the that was. 88 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,200 Absolutely fantastic. And that championship came on at 89 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:58,560 a funny time for Touring Cars because it was when Touring Cars 90 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,280 they were trying to go Super Touring. 91 00:05:00,280 --> 00:05:03,520 They just outlawed the RS5 hundreds and all that sort of 92 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,160 stuff. So all the, all the big fire 93 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,680 breathing things had come out of Touring Cars and they were 94 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:14,080 trying to go to the Touring Car regs, which were, I mean, they 95 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,320 were pretty boring cars, you know, the crash boss, because 96 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,080 they were not exciting things to drive. 97 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,200 And I think people were disappointed with them because 98 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,000 they, they didn't look anything like a Sierra Cosworth with a 99 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:32,240 dining table on the back window. So they, they, they brought on 100 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,520 and this National Saloon Car Championship became really big 101 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,560 and there were lots of different manufacturers in it and the 102 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:44,600 organisers, very organisers, the BRDC very wisely decided that 103 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,240 they'd, they'd have lots of two driver races as well. 104 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,040 So that some of the big. So half the time there were at 105 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,600 least three a year where you had to, you had to have a driver. 106 00:05:54,600 --> 00:06:01,040 So I I raced with Grab It and it was Cleland was in it and Steve 107 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,080 Sopa was in it and Flux was in it, all of these different guys 108 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,480 and they'd all be teaming up with whoever was racing in that 109 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,840 championship. And it was absolutely brilliant 110 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:12,400 because you'd get it, you'd change, you were doing really 111 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,680 well, you'd be in the lead to give your car to grab it and 112 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,000 then they'd all want to go and settle a score they'd had from 113 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:27,400 two years earlier in your car. So there's grab it and Flux, for 114 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,280 instance, you know, bang it together like cast and it's not 115 00:06:30,280 --> 00:06:35,200 their car, not their car. It was it, it made Minspeed to 116 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,600 your budget, but it was that oh, great fun, they're great fun. 117 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,120 And getting to back then starting out, getting to race 118 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,120 with the sofas as well was very exciting. 119 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,280 And now sort of racing with the top was something you then got 120 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:49,440 to do in 95 as well when you moved up to the BCCC. 121 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,480 And how was that as a learning curve to go from the saline car 122 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,440 Cup to the the Super Touring cars in the Mondeo? 123 00:06:57,280 --> 00:07:04,440 Vertical. I yeah, I it, it, it was, it was 124 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,000 very exciting because back in the day it was the biggest thing 125 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,400 on the planet. I mean, Murray Walker 126 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,400 commentated on it, for goodness sake. 127 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,520 I mean, my first race at Donington, I'm not, I'm on the 128 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,800 grid and I've qualified alongside Derek Warwick, who the 129 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,600 the November of the year before was racing for footwork Formula 130 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,480 One. I mean it was just and he was in 131 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:34,600 a works alpha and it was a, it was the big league. 132 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:39,160 It was, it was really big. I, we won that thing for Ford's 133 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:44,280 twice in the salons and they very kindly helped me into the 134 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,760 Rouse car from the year before. So I had Paul Radesich's car 135 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:52,080 and, and the, the grid was just enormous. 136 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:57,560 It was maximum grid back then. And I think from, from, from 137 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,960 pole to the guy last on the grid was a second or something and it 138 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,000 was just brilliant. It was second and a half. 139 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,600 It was really, really tight and very, very exciting. 140 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:12,240 But they were, they're really precise cars, but there's a 141 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,200 really different technique to driving those front wheel drive 142 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:16,800 cars. I remember talking to Andy Rouse 143 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,240 about it and he said, you know, because if you just turn the 144 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,560 wheel, I go straight ahead. So you had to actually sort of 145 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,600 flick it. If you're not a downhill, fine, 146 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,840 but if you're coming up through the top of the Melbourne loop or 147 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,760 something like that or in the red, right, you've actually got 148 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,360 to flick it to get the back to start the move. 149 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,679 So then, yeah, get the energy transfer and I'm trying to do 150 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,240 physics in my head get just getting around every single 151 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:41,960 quarter. So it was fine. 152 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:46,280 I really, I really enjoyed it. I, I like driving a lot more in 153 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,400 the wet where that precision wasn't there. 154 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,240 But the, the guys that were really good at that, and I'm not 155 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,720 pretending for a second to be one of them, were the geniuses. 156 00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:00,240 It's a very different thing from driving A5 litre Commodore. 157 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,560 You say about in the wet and and that you weren't pretending to 158 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:06,920 be one of the good guys in the wet, but you did have that 159 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:11,640 barnstorming weekend at Brands Hatch where I and I, we've 160 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:16,480 talked about Murray and I quote the amazing Charlie Cox #19 was 161 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:22,960 up in 5th and at Paddock. The amazing Charlie Cox #19 has 162 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,760 caught Julian Bailey's Toyota sixth position up to drones. 163 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,000 Fox is. Going through yeah and finished 164 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,320 fifth and at that time was the best result for an independent 165 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:36,920 driver. So it's not a bad start. 166 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,560 It was a lucky bounce. No, no, no, it was in the wet. 167 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,840 I mean #1 when you've got, when you can only muster the cash for 168 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:51,120 644 tyres or six tyres, your, your budget's tight. 169 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,440 If you, we didn't have the money for qualifying or anything like 170 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:54,600 that. And we were running different 171 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,320 tyres. We had Dunlops and all the works 172 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:01,320 guys had Michelins, but they were look it, it was a great 173 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,040 opportunity and it was starting to rain and I liked, I mean, the 174 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,560 rain takes all the precision out of everything, you know, which 175 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:10,120 is probably why I, I raced better in the wet than the dry 176 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:11,840 anyway, because I'm so imprecise. 177 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:18,040 So it was A and I just rolled the dice and we threw wets, wets 178 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:22,280 on it and and everybody else or most other people didn't. 179 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,920 A lot of people didn't. So I had wets and and the guys I 180 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,960 was passing, I think we're on slicks in the main. 181 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,160 But it was, yeah, it was a great race. 182 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,480 I like racing in the rain and technique goes out the window. 183 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,920 You've just got to hang on. And there are also good 184 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:42,080 different lines at Browns Hatch for for the wet that are nothing 185 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,000 to do with the dry. And I was, I was lucky to get my 186 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,880 way through that. Yeah, that was a very exciting, 187 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,560 very exciting race. And always when you're a 188 00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:54,400 privateer, you're always thinking about this will get at 189 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,280 least three more racist sponsorship. 190 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:01,360 I'm laughing like a foxy. So, so yeah, it was brilliant. 191 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,840 It was brilliant. It was going real really well. 192 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,560 I was, I was enjoying it. But I'll I'll never stop 193 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,640 remarking on the the talent and technique guys that are epic at 194 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,320 driving front wheel drive, which is now the norm of course almost 195 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,000 the norm apart from the beamers and stuff. 196 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,960 It's time for something special. We've got an exclusive 197 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,560 competition for you on this series of stories from Super 198 00:11:27,560 --> 00:11:30,440 Touring, and trust me, you really don't want to miss it. 199 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,480 We're going to be giving away 2 tickets to Super Touring Power 3 200 00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:38,240 at Brands Hatch this June, and if you've never been, let me 201 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,720 tell you it's going to be an absolute thriller. 202 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,800 The sound, the speed, the atmosphere, it's the ultimate 203 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,600 celebration of the golden age of touring car racing. 204 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,160 Now to enter, all you have to do is e-mail the answer to this 205 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,680 question. In which position did Charlie 206 00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:57,960 Cox finish during the first Brands Hatch race of the 1995 207 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,920 British Touring Car Championship season? 208 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:05,760 e-mail your answers to POD at 1990s btcc.com and a winner will 209 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,760 be announced in our Super Tory Power 3 preview episode closer 210 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,360 to the time. Good luck. 211 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,440 Touching on that point of sort of a big result getting you 3 212 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,520 races, more sponsorship and so on. 213 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,920 I mean what kind of budgets will be talking to run them on day of 214 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,760 that year? Well, back then it, it would be 215 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,280 very 1995 o'clock it's 30 years ago, it was 1/4 of £1,000,000 to 216 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:41,600 run to run my little team with a truck, which was a worn out Plum 217 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,040 Centre truck that we bought at an option and peeled off all the 218 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,080 Plum Centre stickers off it and wrote Ford on the side. 219 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,480 Yeah, it, it. But that was still a lot of 220 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,360 money. I mean for anybody racing in the 221 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,920 UK outside of a factory team, that was a big lump of cash. 222 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:04,240 So 1/4 of £1,000,000 those engines, the Cosworth engines, 223 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:05,960 they needed rebuilding all of the time. 224 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,000 It was, it was proper, but it was a big show and, and fair 225 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,880 Beto, Alan Gow and the guys that ran it, it was attracting 226 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,040 manufacturers, it was attracting big things. 227 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,280 And, and I was lucky I had Ford support, you know, the, the 228 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,680 Thames Ford deal and it were brilliant to me and they really, 229 00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:24,520 really helped me out. And with without them, it 230 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,840 wouldn't have happened. So yeah, I was, I was fortunate. 231 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,200 But it was a lot, a lot of money to to be competitive. 232 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:36,680 And you, there was no point, you know, doing it on the cheap and 233 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:40,320 looking foolish because you're getting lapped every race. 234 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,520 That's just no good. So you you had to do it. 235 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,480 Moving on to the weekend after Brands Hatch, which is 236 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,640 remembered probably for very different reasons, Charlie was 237 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,680 Thruxton where you made the headlines for a slightly 238 00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:56,920 different reason. Yeah, that was disappointing. 239 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,680 I mean, I used to be a really big guy, you know, I was about 240 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:05,120 6. I felt like that. 241 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:10,800 It just compressed me. It was, it was terrible. 242 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,360 I mean, actually it was funny. I thought I died there for a 243 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:14,600 minute because it knocked me out. 244 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,720 For those of you who haven't, haven't seen it, I had multiple 245 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:18,960 roles. I'd have people, there's a 246 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,560 competition to count them. I think it's 7 and I can't 247 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,120 remember. Anyway, I there was a, there was 248 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,720 a brake failure in the cars. I touched the brakes at the end 249 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,440 of the first lap after church. You're tipping tower through 250 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,880 there or whatever it is. 120 doing about 130 miles an hour. 251 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,800 Something along the back straight there at Thruxton and 252 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:38,960 touch the brakes. Nothing happens except the back 253 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:40,640 left locks on. No other brakes at all. 254 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,680 So it was a, it was a one wheel handbrake turn at 140 mile an 255 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,200 hour by the time you're going Max speed I think. 256 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,680 And it just turned the car sideways and it went slid off 257 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,760 and, and not unreasonably, there is no gravel trap there because 258 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:55,240 people aren't supposed to go off there. 259 00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:00,000 It's the straight. So no, no fault of no fault of 260 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,120 thrust. So I turned sideways right 261 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,960 across the grass and then there was a ploughed field about and 262 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:11,320 it dropped about a foot away from the surface of the grass. 263 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,000 So I've gone driver's door first straight into this and I looked 264 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,120 at her and thought this is going to hurt and bang two wheels off 265 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:20,720 into it. And then it sent the car. 266 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,560 I don't know, but there are lots of still photos about, you know, 267 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,920 15 feet or something into the air pirouetting in the air and 268 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:31,040 off it rolls and and I I was knocked me out. 269 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,720 It actually split my helmet open and I ripped the door. 270 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,960 The door fell off the car it was opening. 271 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,840 So I mean every, every, if you watch it in slow MO, every time 272 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,600 the doors opening, my red love is coming out. 273 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,040 Can you see me? I'm here. 274 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,840 I was always, always trying to get attention. 275 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,280 In fact, if I'd actually written Thames on the roof and Ford on 276 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,960 the underside of the car, it would have been brilliant. 277 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,800 Thames Ford, it would have, it would have been epic 278 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:04,520 advertising. But I didn't have the width for 279 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,240 that. And somebody else suggested I 280 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,760 actually could have had Thames and Ford on the soles of my 281 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,360 boots for when I was scratching off. 282 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,760 Anyway, I was knocked out and I finished up in these bloody Rd 283 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,360 works which were going on outside the circuit because the 284 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,320 the car went down a bank and out through the the circuit and 285 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,640 landed and all these great big piles of dirt. 286 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,600 And I came to, I couldn't see anything out of that eye at all. 287 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,680 And I could just see something out of this one eye, like 288 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,000 looking down a toilet roll tube, which I did a lot when I was 7. 289 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:39,720 And I was thinking, wow, I was, I'm dead. 290 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,920 No, it looks like the moon. Heaven looks like the moon. 291 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,920 And there was just dirt. And because I'm looking up at 292 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,920 45° into the sun, I was waiting for God, but all I could see was 293 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,240 dirt. And, and it turned out I was in 294 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,680 these Rd works and all I could see was a busted windscreen. 295 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,680 And but I was, I was just trying to be the first guy to get him 296 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,880 Doctor Paul Trafford helicopter, because he, they just got a 297 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,960 helicopter that year doing Med medevacs and I was his first 298 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,400 customer and we've been dear friends ever since. 299 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,520 So it was worth it for that. But it destroyed the car and, 300 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,160 and went once again Ford and Carphone Warehouse and those 301 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,400 guys all chipped in and we needed another 100 grand to 302 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,880 build a new car. But it didn't, it didn't do much 303 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,480 for me. So no, it was never quite the 304 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,680 same again. And I wasn't 6/6 and anymore, 305 00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:39,840 which was disappointing. I lost kilos in hospital. 306 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:41,680 So yeah, I did. I did a lot. 307 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,120 I did a lot of things wrong to my head, even even more things 308 00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:49,880 than hitherto had been done. So I took me a long time to get 309 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:51,880 better. So no balance. 310 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,400 You might remember Mika Hakkinen had, he wasn't in the same race. 311 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,600 Mika Hakkinen had a crash I think in Adelaide and suffered 312 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,160 the same injury where basically you drop your inner ear. 313 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,400 It's like it's like dropping a Santa snow globe and all the 314 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,480 fibres in it start floating around and it makes you 315 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,720 constantly dizzy. And it takes can take a couple 316 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,600 of years for all the fibres to settle down. 317 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:18,280 So it might go into bed very exciting every time you sat 318 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:23,000 down. But people just assume I'd got 319 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,840 the first round in, but in fact I was dizzy. 320 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,320 So there you go That that, that, that was the end of that. 321 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,720 I did have a go at coming back at the end of the year and, and 322 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,200 we made a wonderful car and that too was an, an interesting 323 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,360 experiment. And the guys from Matt roll 324 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:40,120 cages came over from Germany. Everybody clubbed in to give us 325 00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:43,880 a hand and we made the the 1st 5 door Mondeo. 326 00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:48,080 But we met because we managed to salvage the old engine it, we 327 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,840 obviously rebuilt it, but it didn't actually fundamentally 328 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,120 wreck it. So that was good and that was 329 00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:57,880 great fun. But I, I wasn't, I was never 330 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,000 quite the same, let's put it that way. 331 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,720 I, you know, it really changed my reflexes and all the rest of 332 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,360 it for a long time and most of the next year, you know, and, 333 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,920 and bouts of dizziness and nausea and all the rest of it. 334 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,200 And I live on a boat when I'm out working in Australia. 335 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,880 And ever since that accident, this is ridiculous. 336 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,560 I grew up on the water but I actually get seasick if I'm not 337 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,920 careful because my balance is just no good. 338 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,920 Jesus, so it still. Effects you to be falling if if 339 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,760 you see me tumble out of the BRD, say clubhouse, you'll know 340 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:35,120 it's just balance yes. Oh, he's had he's had another 341 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:40,080 inner ear problem. I see so yeah, that was that was 342 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,240 that was my ears. Give me hell, you know? 343 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,640 Oh, yes, that that was that, that. 344 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,600 Yeah, it was. It was a wonderful time. 345 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,480 And you see good things come from bad things, don't they? 346 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,280 Because there you go. I'm in hospital for some weeks. 347 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,160 And. And Alan Gao, the boss of TOCA 348 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,600 that I knew, was talking to me about, you know, the BBC was 349 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,880 loving touring cars so much. It was such a big deal. 350 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,640 The BBC had Formula One and touring cars and touring cars 351 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,200 was really bigger. I was thinking about going live 352 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,400 with it. And Murray did touring cars on 353 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:12,640 his own. He'd had. 354 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,240 James Hunt of course. And then by the time I came 355 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,400 along he was doing it with Jonathan Palmer, F1 and they 356 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,280 thought they'd try to do the same. 357 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:28,840 So give him a sidekick and and I was, I was current if 358 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,960 incoherent. So that's how that's how I got 359 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:35,960 in it. So you you taught there that, 360 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,720 you know, it really affected you and the back end of 95 didn't 361 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,880 feel the same. And then GAO mentioned about 362 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,400 possibly putting you in the in the comms pot with Murray. 363 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,320 How did that feel? Because Murray, obviously the 364 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,320 absolute legend, as we all know. Yeah. 365 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,200 That must have been quite intimidating. 366 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:59,400 Murray was mega and it was, the thought of it was intimidating, 367 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,960 but Murray was just the nicest bloke you could ever hope to 368 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:06,360 meet. So I mean, I got on very well 369 00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:08,280 with him. Just we just had, we had a 370 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,640 really fabulous time. But I don't think Murray had any 371 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,920 enemies. I'm sure he was lovely to 372 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:14,400 everybody. I wasn't getting special 373 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:19,880 treatment, but he made it. He made it absolutely marvellous 374 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:21,800 fun. He's very entertaining. 375 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:23,960 He had a sense of self deprecation. 376 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:29,440 So he did when he was, he was starting to be a bit silly about 377 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:35,360 things and and it was great fun. But Murray was had had his ways. 378 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:41,640 Murray had his systems. And back in the day, those BTCC 379 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,680 rounds, they were all post produced. 380 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,040 So you'd commentate them as live, but they'd already been 381 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,160 cut up to fit the half hour that the BBC would give them. 382 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,840 And because I know nothing and just want to watch it and have a 383 00:21:53,840 --> 00:22:02,320 good time in front of you. Sounds like doggy because, 384 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,000 because I, I really love I, because I just really loved it. 385 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,880 I, I didn't, I just wanted to watch it in commentary. 386 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,600 So the commentary was easy. I used to do do a lot of radio 387 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,080 stuff, so that was OK. But it was Murray's show and I 388 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,400 was there to provide some, some insight. 389 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,800 So that was great. But Murray was so fastidious. 390 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,360 He would literally go in on these pre records and spend a 391 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:32,120 whole day, I mean, a day recording every single scene, 392 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:38,200 half an hour of racing every single scene and script it so he 393 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,480 knew exactly what bit was what. So the commentary was so tight 394 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,480 because it would jump from one thing to the next to the next 395 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,720 knock as Murray Walker was ever going to be stuck for words. 396 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,280 But he knew how precise it had to be. 397 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,080 And then you have a big bit, a big asterisk, Charlie. 398 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,160 And there'd and there'd be all these Charlie gaps. 399 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,200 That's how it was. It was going to happen in his 400 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:03,360 mind and he said it's really quite simple and I'll tap you 401 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,200 when you when you ought to come in because I didn't have his 402 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:07,600 script. It was handwritten, the whole 403 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,200 damn thing. And I go, yeah, fine, Murray. 404 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,520 But he gets so pumped, even though he knew what was coming 405 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,560 up. It was so damned exciting. 406 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:20,000 He'd get so pumped he wouldn't tap me and he'd stand up for the 407 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,200 whole thing. I'm sitting down. 408 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,040 He stands up for the whole broadcast with a lip mic, You 409 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,320 know, just like in the gantry, sort of horrible Huddersfield 410 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,440 rainy football match, you know, just huddled him off we go. 411 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,640 And then he'd get really excited and Charlie comes up and he'd go 412 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:40,600 whack and hit me on the backs. The, every remark I made starts 413 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:45,840 with, oh, it was amazing. And I'd leave there with welts 414 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,840 on my back because Murray was so excited. 415 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,480 I'm sure there's a claim there somewhere, anywhere he has. 416 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:58,040 So he, it was fun. It was incredible to watch. 417 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,440 But he, as we all know, made it what it was. 418 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:06,520 And I, you know, he made it in, in the UK he made F1 and, and 419 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:11,200 wider in Australia he made F1 and, and he made touring cars as 420 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,360 well. And to be alongside him was 421 00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:18,080 absolutely brilliant. So yes, it was, it was a treat. 422 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,120 And we stayed friends and we and he would. 423 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:22,000 Murray also loved motorcycle racing. 424 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,640 So I'd inevitably see him at the British Motorcycle Grand Prix or 425 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,440 the soup bikes. And yeah, we caught up a lot. 426 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,960 And we, yeah. In fact, I had breakfast with 427 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:39,960 him at A farewell for James Toesland and when he was leaving 428 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,000 the sport, leaving motorcycle racing. 429 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,360 We had breakfast there up in up in Brum not that long ago. 430 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,960 Well, at the time, not long after I'd left Touring Cars. 431 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,400 We've obviously you mentioned the process with doing a lot of 432 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,160 what a lot of the rounds were with the pre recorded 433 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,720 commentary. As we as the BBC moved further 434 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,320 and ramped up their coverage of it, we then started to get the 435 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:09,400 live races on Grandstand. How different was the process 436 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,360 for preparing for those and then making sure that the coverage 437 00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:16,080 still felt as tight as the pre recorded races? 438 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,240 Yeah, I think that was a challenge. 439 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,720 I mean the the BBC that goes battalion strength things. 440 00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:27,120 So it was, it was very much like the Normandy invasion when the 441 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,720 the BBC turned up. But they did it so 442 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,880 professionally. It was the real deal and the 443 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,320 fact they'd have Helly Telly sometimes and there was a 444 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,360 particular director called Malcolm and he was so pleased 445 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:43,880 with these gantries he had established that could look 446 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,480 down. So they were like helicopter 447 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,400 shots. I couldn't commentate on the 448 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,160 race because I'd never looked at it from above and I couldn't 449 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,440 help it out. Helly Telly, No Malcolm, I can't 450 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,320 see them. It's just all these little 451 00:25:55,320 --> 00:26:00,280 racing dots. But the the BBC threw a lot at 452 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:01,880 it. So the main difference was the 453 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,720 amount of effort that went into the pre records and the 454 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,400 interviews and all those sort of things. 455 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:14,360 That was the real key and and it made a lot of it made a weekend 456 00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:17,360 of it, which was great. It it gave you a lot more 457 00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:20,520 interest. Usually the racing was good 458 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,440 enough that there weren't too many boring bits. 459 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,880 But if there were, I could always ask what he what he 460 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,400 thought, and that would fill it in. 461 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,960 Yeah, enough, enough of me. How do others see me? 462 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,080 No, it was. Yeah. 463 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,000 So yeah, it was. It was always fine. 464 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,880 There weren't long races. There was usually something to 465 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,600 talk about. There was always stuff to be 466 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,480 talking about in the background anyway. 467 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:53,440 A much more modest task to to the the amount of homework 468 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,280 you've got to do to do an F1 race or something like that. 469 00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:59,640 Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've, we've always thought that 470 00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:05,360 the BBC not got lucky, but the races they did choose to be live 471 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:09,160 were generally very good. You had the Mansell race at 472 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,600 Donington in 98, you had the Matt Neil first win in 99. 473 00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:16,920 They they normally struck gold with the the races that they did 474 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,480 choose to to televise life. Yeah, yeah, that's the truth. 475 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,960 Because you could get the odd processional race and it's fine, 476 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,440 you know, you know what you're talking about theoretically, so 477 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,080 you know enough stuff to talk about it and go through it all. 478 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,400 But nonetheless, yeah, a processional race is difficult. 479 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,240 But all I don't remember a real stinker. 480 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,760 I remember a live one at at Thruxton that was a belter and 481 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,560 it was and Watty and I ended up sort of fighting after the 482 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,280 microphone because it was, there was so much going on we but we 483 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,320 just both couldn't get a word in edgewise. 484 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,960 It was extraordinary. Yeah, what he remembered, he 485 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,080 remembered that when when he came on the show with us a 486 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:58,160 couple a couple of series ago about the live one at Thruxton, 487 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,920 where I think it was something to do with Matt Neil and Jason 488 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,440 Plato at the club chicane. And there was a pass going on 489 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,840 and you both wanted to sort of say at the same time and it was 490 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,720 just exciting. And yeah, he said it was 491 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,600 interesting in the in the comms box. 492 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,520 Oh yes, I think that's one of those euphemisms, isn't it? 493 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,920 Oh yeah, I'm more than happy to speak up. 494 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,480 So, yeah, yeah, I think we did have a brawl. 495 00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:26,960 It didn't last. It it didn't last. 496 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,880 We we could have we could have arguments and pre records. 497 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,560 I mean, I I he could have an argument by himself. 498 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,320 No, it was great. It was. 499 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:41,080 I loved commentating with Watty because he would say what he 500 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,440 thought he'd speak up. You know, he Yeah. 501 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,040 So none of this procrastination. Well, I don't know. 502 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:48,440 I don't. What do you reckon? 503 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:49,440 Oracle? And he'd go. 504 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:51,600 Oh, that's rude boy. Tim Harvey. 505 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:52,880 He shouldn't have done. No, no, no. 506 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,760 OK. But yeah, he'd have an opinion. 507 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:02,320 He'd he'd make it really clear. And he did have a, he did have a 508 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,400 motor racing pedigree, as it transpires. 509 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,080 Yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 510 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,920 So, so that that was good. But those, I thought the live 511 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,840 races were great. They were very lucky that I 512 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,440 don't recall them ever having a stinker of a boring race. 513 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,920 I mean, they were never really boring races, but you can get 514 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,480 one where somebody disappears off into the distance and the 515 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,320 rest of it spreads it out. But the formats were good. 516 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,520 You remember they were sort of multi race formats. 517 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,000 So yes, you know, they weren't, they weren't going to run for 518 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,240 too long. They didn't complicate it with 519 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,400 refuelling and pit stops and all that sort of nonsense was just 520 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:41,280 basically go till you drop. When ITV took the coverage away 521 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:49,120 of Formula One from the BBC at the end of 1996, the BTCC became 522 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:55,440 the premium motorsport package on the BBC and BBC grandstand 523 00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:01,800 and that pushed the prerecorded shows from 30 minutes to 60 524 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,480 minutes. And that gave you guys a lot 525 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:09,800 more scope to do post race interviews, pre race grid walks, 526 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,000 pre race features interviews, you know, that sort of thing. 527 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:19,520 And towards the end of the era, those pre race features became 528 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,880 very popular amongst fans, myself included. 529 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:29,040 How much of an input did you have on those pre race features? 530 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:35,000 Because they became more and more interesting, shall we say, 531 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:40,520 as as it went on. The early stages of that when it 532 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:46,360 was done by the production company BHP, that was they, we'd 533 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,880 talk in the week about it, but they would write it like a 534 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,120 Hollywood script. You know, we did. 535 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,000 We did a faux movie beginnings like the Blair Witch Project 536 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,600 when it was the first night race that snettered it and I'm 537 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,640 crashing around through the the undergrowth in the dark. 538 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,600 What was that? What was I mean, it was all very 539 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,680 high camp stuff, but it was it, it was great fun. 540 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,480 But they would, they would usually have a theme that they 541 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:16,480 wanted to put together on that and then the Beeb that was doing 542 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,520 the live stuff themselves. And that would be much more of a 543 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,840 programme. You know, when it was a live BBC 544 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,440 One, it would be a programme and they'd line up, you know, lots 545 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,960 of different interviews to go in there as well. 546 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:31,760 But yeah, you'd get the feedback on it. 547 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,320 But the the show, the shows would always tend to have a 548 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:41,560 theme, which which was great. And those, yeah, some of those 549 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,080 things we did I remember. But there were periods where it 550 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,160 started at BHP was a production company, then they'd start to do 551 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,400 the longer shows then what he came along and they would 552 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,440 engineer all of those tops. When we had the longer shows, 553 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:03,760 even if it was, even if it was going to be a prerecord, it's to 554 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,840 be an hour show. So there was time and I'd go up 555 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,880 there, you know, it's usually me that had to do all that stuff 556 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,240 and I'd go and do those shows and all the links and all the 557 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,680 rest of it on the Saturday or across the weekend. 558 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,760 So I'd have to physically be at the race for the weekend, which 559 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,920 I loved anyway. You know, even if we were going 560 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,960 to post produce it where what he wouldn't necessarily have to do 561 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,440 that. So he could we'd just meet up at 562 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,280 the post produce, so we'd see the top usually before we then 563 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,200 did the commentary, if that makes sense. 564 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,560 That was in the in the longer form, which you've reminded me 565 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:43,560 of the longer form post produced bits, which was which was good. 566 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,560 When it was full live, the BBC would do it themselves come 567 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,560 battalion strength, do the whole shooting match. 568 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,760 And it was much more ABBC programme, you know, the way 569 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,600 they would do it. And you had look Steve Ryder. 570 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,760 Then at another point after that it went to a production company. 571 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,360 Again, I think when the BBC was running out of budget, it was it 572 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,240 was done by another independent. But whatever live ones were done 573 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,840 were all, as I recall, were always the BBC because they had 574 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,160 the tech, the top, the tops of the shows were great fun. 575 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:18,240 One of my favourites. We would we did a it was when it 576 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,960 was the fabulous year when you had Rydell and Menu and Reedy 577 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,440 and they were all in Fords and we'd all come up to the last 578 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,680 round of it and all were in with a shot of winning a 579 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,880 championship. So we did the thing as 580 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,840 University Challenge Challenge. Yes, so so and we I'm I'm I'm 581 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,040 sitting there as the quiz mask asking a question. 582 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,880 Anthony Reid, You know, how many points do you need to read 583 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:54,560 London right now? Stop and that and bless them. 584 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,960 These guys were pretty big stars back in the day Menu, you know, 585 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,400 right out crikey, they were all they were all big deals and they 586 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,640 still gave it the time and did it and enjoyed it, you know, 587 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,520 modifying them. They were up for it and it was 588 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,480 funny. Yeah, you did. 589 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,520 You do get the sense in that one that they're not just there, sat 590 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,480 there thinking, God, I've got to do this, Mediff. 591 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,719 And they're all actually genuinely finding it quite a 592 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,760 funny top, aren't they, at the start of the show? 593 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,199 Yeah, yeah, because you didn't tell them too much. 594 00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:25,920 You just said like trust will be got. 595 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,199 We just got this. Just run with me. 596 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,159 I know this sounds silly, but here in in the UK, we've got 597 00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:35,080 this show called University Challenge began. 598 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:36,719 It just adds it. But you'll like it. 599 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,440 It'll be funny. And, and the props were all done 600 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,080 and the, the hold up the scorecards and the fake 601 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,000 applause. We had canned laughter and 602 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,120 canned applause. And it was produced absolutely 603 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:48,560 brilliantly. There was a guy called Lawrence 604 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,120 Foster who was the genius behind all of this stuff at BHP. 605 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,800 He was a, you remember him? He was an auto sport guy. 606 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,560 Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. He I haven't seen loser for many 607 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,600 years, but he was a legend and he came up with all these zany 608 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,720 ideas. You won't believe you're going 609 00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:05,840 to be Jeremy Paxman this week. Oh, good. 610 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,280 OK, Craig, keep taking. So anyway, these sort of things 611 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,600 were always, they were always a great treat. 612 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:19,680 They were really good fun. You also got to drive quite a 613 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,360 few of the cars as part of the coverage as well. 614 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,680 Was that quite exciting, sort of getting behind the wheel of the 615 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,800 Nissan or whatever it was that week to have a go in and see 616 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,440 what that felt like and convey that to the viewer? 617 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,960 Yeah, it was brilliant. One of the one of the best fun 618 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:43,480 ones was doing it with James Thompson in in the Hondas and it 619 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,920 was a piece. It was one of the big BBC ones 620 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,640 and the BBC, as you know, does fantastic production. 621 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,360 They think it through like get the resource. 622 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,240 So we have the track to ourselves at Donington and we 623 00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:57,720 were going through it and we were connected to each other on 624 00:35:57,720 --> 00:36:00,120 mics and then we had the directors in the cans and all 625 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,000 the rest of it. But it was the show how you 626 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,120 would how you affect and overtake, where's a good spot to 627 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:07,560 overtake? What happens if you're on the 628 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,560 wrong side? And that was great. 629 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:14,520 That was fantastic fun. And and James decided it was a 630 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,320 good, good player to basically do this at qualifying speed. 631 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:22,920 So we're so I was still, I was still racing cars. 632 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,640 That was all right. But it was really brisk, you 633 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,360 know, and we're side by side. You're almost banging mirrors 634 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,640 and I'm thinking I don't know who's who's underwriting this. 635 00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:34,600 You know, if I take if I take you off and launch both the 636 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:40,160 cars, will the beep pick it up all Anyway, we it was brilliant 637 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,120 fun, really exciting because you were with a with a wonderful 638 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:49,240 race driver who you're in really close proximity with just 639 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,360 flogging around the track that you had to yourself. 640 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:58,000 So that was that was great fun. I tell this against myself, The 641 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,360 worst part about this, it was a guy brought a wotty unbridled 642 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,920 delight because they got me to drive the one of the, I think it 643 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,240 was out of our menus, Mondeo at on at the first night race. 644 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:11,560 What's it look like in the night? 645 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,200 Charlie's going to do us a couple of laps. 646 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,520 Well, of course, the temperature, the track tempos 647 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,240 will be about 5°. It's Dewey as buggery. 648 00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:21,240 I can't see where I'm going anyway. 649 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,320 And I spun it. There's no big deal in anything. 650 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,760 I just spun it down at the, I think at the bom hole. 651 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:34,720 And the, the joy that gave John Watson was just almost too much 652 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:38,880 to bear for me. But yeah, yeah. 653 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:40,160 But it was, it was. Yeah. 654 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,480 That was very exciting. But I've got to tell you, and I 655 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:49,040 still haven't worked this out, the most undrivable car I ever 656 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:54,720 drove was Ricard Rydell's Volvo. Now it's the only race car I've 657 00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:56,520 never been able to. You couldn't drive it in a 658 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,960 straight line. It was great round corners you'd 659 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:04,480 absolutely get it felt like it was it had about 45° of neg and 660 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,080 so much cast of the wheels are actually proud of the front 661 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,040 bumper. It was just so when you were 662 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,560 trying to go down the straight, you had to sort of tuck your 663 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,800 elbows in like that because if you're flinched, you started to 664 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,080 get the tank slapper. It was terrifying. 665 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,840 And that was when I don't know if you remember this, but it was 666 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:24,280 in the pre show and the very lovely Steve riders there in the 667 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,280 pit lane and I pull in because he's been interviewing me on the 668 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,360 way outgoing. I pull back in and he just does 669 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,520 this, takes it upon himself. And he said because I they put a 670 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,120 second seat in the car and I'd taken him around and he says, so 671 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:40,880 how was that Sally? What what did you think? 672 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,200 I said that was brilliant. Mind if I ever go? 673 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,920 I'm, I'm just a bitch in the commentary box. 674 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,160 I don't have AI, don't have a view. 675 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,760 And I don't know if you've asked Mr Volvo, but yeah, knock 676 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,800 yourself out. So I get, he gets in the 677 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,720 driver's seat, I'm in the passenger seat and we go as far 678 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:02,720 as clearways and I, and that was it. 679 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,240 We, we got through, we got through through, we went through 680 00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:09,080 the bottom bend and then we're heading for clearways. 681 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,560 And I'm thinking it was the short circuit. 682 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,160 I'm thinking I'd really be in a lower gear now. 683 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,800 I really, I'm much slower gear now. 684 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,720 And you know, see that pedal to the left, I'd be thinking it was 685 00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:23,200 so, so we, we go into clear ways. 686 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,320 We've got a fair lick of speed on and I think we're in 5th and 687 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:31,000 we didn't. So we changed no gears and we, 688 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,680 we put it in the sand and my good God. 689 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,800 And I don't know how long it took to get out. 690 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:41,240 It was. And somehow by, by by proximity, 691 00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:46,400 it became my fault. But I was just anyway, yeah. 692 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,400 I'm afraid to say he did blame you when we mentioned it to him. 693 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:55,480 It was completely his fault. It's not like a learner driver 694 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,800 car where I've got a second, you know, he had, he had the round 695 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:05,080 thing, he had the sticky thing. And I'm, you know, I'd, yeah, or 696 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,720 if it was me, I'd be in say third, second maybe, you know, 697 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,840 5th, 5th, 5th with really tall, not a lot of Revs. 698 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,680 So we've actually got no talk either. 699 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,920 So it was, yes, it was a moment. It was a moment. 700 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:25,840 As you see, Murray left the the the comms at the end of 97 and 701 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,880 you were partnered up with Watty for, for, for three or four 702 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,400 years then. And you, for me personally, you 703 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:38,440 two were just the dream ticket. You, you, you bounced off each 704 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,440 other perfectly. As you say, Watty was famous for 705 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:47,280 his, you know his scolding 1 liners, the tellings off when? 706 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,880 Rude boy Tim Harvey sticks in my mind. 707 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,200 Yes, yeah, yeah, He brought that one up himself. 708 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:54,960 He remembered that one. And. 709 00:40:55,160 --> 00:41:00,040 Another one, Jason Plato, it was often one that got told off by 710 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,680 him a lot as well, but it bounced off With your what I 711 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:09,280 would say you're more light hearted 1 liners which are so 712 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:14,920 memorable to this day. Is is that was that planned or 713 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,320 is that something that just naturally happened? 714 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,800 No, no, he's naturally disapproving and I'm naturally 715 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,560 fun. No, no, I mean, they, they have, 716 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,880 they have notional roles and you know, so someone's going to be 717 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,160 the lead commentator, someone's going to be the expert. 718 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:35,400 That's, that's the, the natural choreography of, of that sort of 719 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:39,280 commentating. Yeah, and and who's going to be 720 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,440 the expert? A guy that won the an F1 race, 721 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:50,160 Silverstone or me. So, so I, what he was, was, was 722 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,440 great at that and he and his, I, his judgements were good and he 723 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,440 would make the judgements. That's the key, you know, not a 724 00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,800 knitting competition. That's really bad. 725 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,240 What happened, you know, just say something about it. 726 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,240 So that's good. For me. 727 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,040 It was just about the spectacle. It's always been about the 728 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,600 spectacle. I had the incredible good 729 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:14,560 fortune to just be getting to go and watch a motor race running 730 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,640 off at the mouth, which I'm wanting to do all the time. 731 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,200 But I was getting paid for it. So I don't think I'd have been 732 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,720 saying much different if I was hanging over the fence of turn 733 00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:26,320 One at Donington watching him. You know, it's just what and 734 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,160 it's what you see, you know, the, the silly one liners, you 735 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,120 know, I don't have a script. You just see that you know, I 736 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:37,800 remember I thought I think it was thrusting and it was pouring 737 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,520 with rain and everyone's slipping and slightly and I just 738 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,840 said he's got about as much grip as a dog online. 739 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:44,840 Yes, we're going through noble corner. 740 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,240 We've got what's in the green Peugeot on the left now on the 741 00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:49,880 right Hoy on the left and looked as though what's might have 742 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,840 tagged boy, I'm not sure round they both go in the pirouette. 743 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,440 This is so slippery. I've got about as much grit as a 744 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,080 dog on lino these two and they've just slipped straight up 745 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,960 into the wilderness because you can see that, can't you? 746 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,560 It's, it's, you know what, everyone's seen a dog trying to 747 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,800 run on Lino and it doesn't work. And, and all lots of those, 748 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,520 those, those, the vision just provides itself. 749 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:17,320 I, I remember that if they were racing in a monsoon at Brands 750 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,160 Hatch and they, and it was AI think it was a live race and 751 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:25,000 they cut to James Thompson's car and they had a camera on the 752 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,440 front of a car and all you could see was just flood water. 753 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,320 And I just said Periscope because that's what it looked, 754 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,960 but it's what it looked like. You know, you can't think. 755 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,960 I'll think of saying that if that presents itself. 756 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,520 It's just, it's things that you know, things that are 757 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,840 descriptive, you know, we're we're you know, it's, it's it's 758 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,000 just how you see it and it and it's fun. 759 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,320 The point, the point of it was I was just getting paid to have 760 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,320 fun watching ATV show. I'd watch anyway. 761 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:56,800 Yeah, except I got to talk about it too. 762 00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,200 I loved it like you guys love it. 763 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,800 It's just it was as much fun as you could have with your clothes 764 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:04,480 on. There we go. 765 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,640 What were some of your favourite races that you covered in that 766 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,440 period? I think sort of the one that for 767 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,600 a lot of people seems to be the popular choice of favourite race 768 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,760 from that era is Donnington 98 with Mansell. 769 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,920 Did you have any favourites that you covered from that period? 770 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,240 Yeah, the, the, the Donnington race was pretty extraordinary. 771 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:33,720 I mean, you, if you ever had any doubts about about Maxwell, you, 772 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,960 you wouldn't after that. He was, he'd never go at 773 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,360 anything, you know, there, there he was with a fantastic 774 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,320 reputation. He'd put it all on the line and 775 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,920 had to go. And did you know he did well, it 776 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,960 was just the most extraordinary race. 777 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,160 And once again, I think as I recall, the the conditions 778 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,480 weren't that weren't that favourable. 779 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,520 So it sort of mixed it up a lot more, you know, and it was 780 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,640 wasn't about front wheel ability because an F1 car is going to be 781 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,560 about as far away a mansalier. An F1 car has got to be about as 782 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,320 far away from that as you can get. 783 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,160 But it was just about car control in rubbish conditions. 784 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,280 And it was a fairy tale. You'd almost swear that they had 785 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,080 a three litre engine in there that Ford had cooked it never 786 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,480 unturned there. It what he just drove 787 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,480 brilliantly. You know, it was just the most 788 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,760 extraordinary happy story, very exciting. 789 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,440 And then and then you know, Mansell having a huge shunt as 790 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:30,680 as well down the old hairpin. You remember that? 791 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,680 I think that was a couple of years ago. 792 00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:34,200 I mean, he had a couple of goes at it. 793 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:38,200 But yeah, that the, the Mansell Donington was absolutely 794 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:42,600 extraordinary. That last race for the the Ford 795 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,840 guys, the last the last round where it came right down to the 796 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:52,280 wire for Muller and Plato in those Vauxhalls at Brown's hat. 797 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,800 Even though that was sort of past the the zenith of the Super 798 00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:00,360 tearing era, that was a pretty potent, powerful race. 799 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,680 You know, with Muller's car pulled off coming out of padding 800 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,920 hills, you know, in in flames parked off by the side of the 801 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,640 road. That was horrendous, amazing. 802 00:46:10,720 --> 00:46:12,640 But, you know, and someone had to lose it. 803 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,960 But it, it was just a shocking way to lose it. 804 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,480 Oh, yeah. He would have won anyway. 805 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:22,880 But yeah, those those races where, I mean, it was just the 806 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,680 amount of action, the amount of sustained action, you know, 807 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:30,160 over, over so many years. I mean, Cleland was a master. 808 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,360 And I mean, all, all John Cleland needed was to turn up 809 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,680 with a set of slicks and a box of wing mirrors, you know, and 810 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,560 he was his, his weekend was made-up. 811 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,720 And I remember watching him going up the hill at *** Broom. 812 00:46:41,720 --> 00:46:44,200 And I think he'd had about, you know, like so many wing mirrors, 813 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,360 so little time. He's had somebody, he's had 814 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,040 another one, he's had another. And it was because they were 815 00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,720 just so close and they didn't give a shit. 816 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,480 And it was wonderful. It was just wonderful. 817 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,320 And I don't some sometimes it was too aggressive but not too 818 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,200 no, but it it's the. The the style of the racing, 819 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:07,520 it's sort of it that's close racing that sometimes maybe went 820 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,840 over the edge. That's what attracted people to 821 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:14,360 it anyway, you know, for, for, for lots of people that close 822 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,800 racing that, you know, wing mirrors flying everywhere, maybe 823 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,960 the odd bumper flying off. I remember Jason Plato's bumper 824 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,160 was pretty much detached from the first corner at every race 825 00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,920 in in 1999. That's, that's what attracted 826 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,120 people to the racing. It was, it was, it was 827 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:31,840 brilliant. It was just super. 828 00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,760 And if Jason's bumble wasn't off, he'd had. 829 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:40,480 Someone else's off SO, but yeah, but no one had scripts for this 830 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,960 stuff, did they? So I couldn't because they 831 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,000 didn't, they didn't know what was going to happen. 832 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:50,040 It was just play it as you find it and it was extraordinary. 833 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:55,320 And the crowds absolutely loved it at the track, the viewing 834 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,480 audience that the environment was just marvellous. 835 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,400 Following the BBC losing. The rights to the Touring Cars 836 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:10,160 at the end of 2001, you then transitioned into their coverage 837 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,800 of bikes. How was that working with, with 838 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,200 Steve Parrish working on that going into the 20 tens as well? 839 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:18,600 I think you you went on with that. 840 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:22,360 Was that, was that quite a nice transition from kind of similar 841 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,680 action at times? Yeah, at the time it was. 842 00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,320 It was hilarious working with Steve Parrish, with Steph. 843 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:34,200 I could I could spend an hour giving you several anecdotes and 844 00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:37,200 the number of times we finished up helping police with their 845 00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:44,360 enquiries, usually to do with with motoring offences, I hasten 846 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,840 to add. I mean the BBC was quite foolish 847 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:51,040 and for many races they'd give us a rent a car each. 848 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,920 It took them ages to work out. The only way to stop us smashing 849 00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,280 rental cars was to put us in the same car. 850 00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:02,360 There were a lot of hire car casualties and by the time the 851 00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,120 BBC had worked out that the only way to stop us doing bammel 852 00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:10,240 damage was to put us in the same car, Stavros had worked out that 853 00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:11,680 there were still ways around that. 854 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,600 So we were in the Lousots Ring very early on doing world super 855 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,560 bikes and we're coming back from the circuit and we worked out a 856 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:23,320 rally circuit, a rally stage. But it wasn't a Renault Megane 857 00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,120 Steve, it was a Renault Scenic, you know, like a people 858 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,680 movement. So it's not valley bread, it's 859 00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:34,600 family bread, you know. So anyway, we have these 860 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:36,800 everyday. We're doing a section time, 861 00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,160 Section 3 of this take over the jump da da da da da and the car 862 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:46,200 was absolutely filthy last night after the last race. 863 00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:49,480 He come, he's at the wheel. He comes sliding into town and 864 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:55,040 and hits a curb and broke a piece off the front wheel that 865 00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,040 obviously wasn't metal anyway, snapped a piece of the front 866 00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,920 faux magnesium wheel off. So on the way back to the track 867 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,080 the next day where we had to pick up Colin Edwards because 868 00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:09,160 we're giving him a ride to the app, he said, I know we'll just 869 00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,400 cover it with a bit more mud. We'll do the rally circuit 870 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:15,600 backwards no problem. And he goes the rally circuit 871 00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,720 backwards, completely forgetting that mid circuit there's a drop 872 00:50:19,720 --> 00:50:22,480 of about a foot and 1/2 into a big muddy puddle. 873 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,000 It's fine. When you're going with it, you 874 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,200 go against it and you're airborne. 875 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,480 So off he goes. It's the muddy puddle. 876 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:33,640 We've got air, serious air, you know, scenic, not on the gown. 877 00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:39,520 We land instantly, the front suspension's gone like that. 878 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:44,040 And he goes, Oh, my baby's wounded down way. 879 00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:49,440 And I and I got out and it's got about 15° of neg and I, it's 880 00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,240 leaking oil. And I said maybe we're going to 881 00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:54,040 shut it down. It's you've split the sump. 882 00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:55,600 He said we're almost at the circuit. 883 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:57,400 Don't worry. I used to race 2 strokes. 884 00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:01,560 I'll catch her before she nips. And he didn't catch her before 885 00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,800 he nipped it nipped on the way into the flowers. 886 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:06,960 It's ring. And I tell you, we spent some 887 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:08,840 time filling out some forms after that. 888 00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:14,040 Yeah. So just coming back to super. 889 00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,840 Touring then Charlie. So it's clear from a lot of what 890 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:21,400 you've said that you really valued the people that you 891 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,680 weren't with ever. That was Murray and Watty, the 892 00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,560 production team and also the the drivers of the time who was you 893 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:31,320 said really were superstars. Who were your favourites? 894 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,440 To work with if he. Was the the drivers that if you 895 00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,160 were told and work and you're working with this person this 896 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:39,600 weekend, you'd be really excited and know you'd get a lot of good 897 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:43,440 stuff out of them? I could get thrown out of the 898 00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:48,360 BRDC if I get this wrong. That's very, very difficult. 899 00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:53,840 Oh, Gee. I mean, they, they were all I I 900 00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,000 didn't have any trouble with any of them. 901 00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,120 I mean, people like Derek Warwick were great because Derek 902 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,960 had done it all. So by the time he came to to 903 00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,400 doing touring cars, and that was when I was still driving, you 904 00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,320 know, he was, yeah, he was wonderfully. 905 00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:09,920 I can't drive these bloody things. 906 00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:11,640 It's ridiculous. They just go straight. 907 00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,280 I mean, Derek had all the runs on the board and was was 908 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,640 absolutely able to say whether he liked what he was doing or 909 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:22,440 not in terms of the guys that that were, that were good to 910 00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,240 interview. I mean, Jason Plato could talk 911 00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:27,280 in under 3 feet of wet cement. You know, Jason's a great chat. 912 00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:31,240 Always was John Cleland at but was epic. 913 00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,240 You know, JC is, is a friend. He's funny. 914 00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,880 He's really, really clever. His his win in that cavalier was 915 00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:45,720 just, it was just everything he deserved after being taken out a 916 00:52:45,720 --> 00:52:48,040 few years earlier at at Silverstein. 917 00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:52,240 But JC was funny. I mean, one of the best things I 918 00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:56,360 ever did was we near the end we managed to to perfect or the 919 00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:01,360 BBC, not we the BBC managed to perfect putting the intercom to 920 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:05,280 the cars between me and and the commentators and the cars live, 921 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,520 which was quite revolutionary back in the day. 922 00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,960 And I don't know how he was concentrating on the race. 923 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,840 The one liners were just flying. It was almost like a shootout 924 00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,120 between. Hang on, that's my line. 925 00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,120 Yeah, he was, he was absolutely he he was, he was very good. 926 00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,160 He was very good to work with. Yvonne Muller was a very nice 927 00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,200 fellow. Richard Rydell was was was a 928 00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,440 good man. Peter Cox was was was a great 929 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:32,160 fellow. James Thompson was was brilliant 930 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,320 fun to work with. I'm going to forget people 931 00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:37,640 because they're not springing to mind and that's really, really 932 00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:44,160 terrible. LM menu was, was, was very 933 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,120 interesting because he's, they're all nice guys, but I 934 00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:51,720 mean, he, he had that wonderful sort of insouciance about and, 935 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,800 and, and slight superiority about the whole thing in the 936 00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:59,080 nicest possible way. Well, I'm here, but I'm also a 937 00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,720 banker. So, you know, I go back to 938 00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:04,200 Switzerland, make money, I drive. 939 00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,800 I mean, his English is much better than that, of course, but 940 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,400 you know what I mean. So they were they were properly 941 00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,880 colourful characters. And there were guys that came 942 00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:18,440 and went, you know, big name Simone Queenie, all of those 943 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:23,400 guys, you know, and and good old David Leslie, God rest his soul, 944 00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,760 you know, they were they, but what amazing blade pairing. 945 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:31,200 So you've got Laurent Aiello and David Leslie, you know, Yes. 946 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,840 Yeah. Steak, steak and eggs at one end 947 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:39,640 and and some fancy foreign guy at the other hand. 948 00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:44,320 It was yeah, and, and and they won't but, but you know, it was 949 00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:49,080 just, it was a marvellous thing that they were very clever the 950 00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:53,240 way they packaged up the people. The people were very good at 951 00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:56,840 doing what they did. They were media friendly. 952 00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:02,400 But I honestly think that the real key to this was that 953 00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,720 everybody that was doing it, you have good days, bad days, but 954 00:55:05,720 --> 00:55:09,200 everybody in that paddock behind those steering wheels, they were 955 00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,640 having a good time. The actual vibe there was good. 956 00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,040 And you can't, you can't pay Alan GAO and the Toker people 957 00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,160 enough credit for what they built. 958 00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,720 You think what a ragtag, scrappy old thing it was back in the 959 00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:24,960 late 80s in, in terms of a shuttle. 960 00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:26,320 I mean, great cars, great racing. 961 00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:30,600 They're going to be you know, but it was Gee whizzes, you 962 00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:35,080 know, it really put it on the map and it was the IT was a big 963 00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,240 call. What they did one one thing I've 964 00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,400 I would like. To, to ask before, I don't know. 965 00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:42,640 I'm aware we've taken a lot of your time already. 966 00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:44,360 I don't look, I'm just having a great. 967 00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:45,520 Time. I don't know what's going in 968 00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:46,160 your shadow. I just have. 969 00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:50,240 I'm just shooting the breeze. I really enjoyed what? 970 00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,520 You might notice things. Come up since we started 971 00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,640 talking, it has, yes. We have we. 972 00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:00,760 We talked about your time in Murray early on and and you were 973 00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:02,840 talking about how it how it was working with him. 974 00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:07,960 What did you learn from him to move forward in that you use 975 00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,680 later on in your commentary and broadcasting career? 976 00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:13,760 Were there anything in particular that you just that 977 00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,280 you picked up from him? What did I learn from Murray? 978 00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,760 That it was fun. Murray had a great lot of fun 979 00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:24,000 with it. Murray loved it. 980 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:25,800 It wasn't just a job. Murray loved it. 981 00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,240 Murray was very methodical and as I said to you with the 982 00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:33,120 Touring cars, when it was pre recorded, post produced, he 983 00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:36,160 would be really methodical and scientific about it. 984 00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:38,600 I've got to say, half of that science went out the window when 985 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:42,120 we got going because the races were so good and we forget blow 986 00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:45,040 by blow by blow. So it would help him keep track 987 00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,160 of it because all of those things were time coded. 988 00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,280 But I didn't have to worry about any of that. 989 00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:52,360 I'd just shout till he hit me to stop again. 990 00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,600 So I hit the start, I hit the stop. 991 00:56:55,240 --> 00:56:57,600 Yeah, the first thing I. Learnt from Murray. 992 00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:04,040 I got very excited when I think it was Audi came out with no was 993 00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:08,080 it was I think it was I think it was Honda came out with those 994 00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:12,480 great big wheel covers that were supposed to be aerodynamically 995 00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:14,680 efficient. Remember, yeah, yeah. 996 00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:17,080 Oh, Murray cameo. Yes, they. 997 00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,240 Came out with these arrow. Discs Murray, look at that. 998 00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,240 That's absolutely fantastic. And what genius this is. 999 00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:24,640 They're even getting into the science of Arrow. 1000 00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:28,320 And he said yeah, so an auto union in 1928. 1001 00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:33,440 What are you getting so excited? So I, I quickly, I quickly 1002 00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,760 learned that Murray knew a lot more than me and always would. 1003 00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:43,320 Talking again of of. Of comms and stuff and we've 1004 00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:48,560 we've already touched on your one liners and stuff I wonder if 1005 00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:51,960 we'd all like to share some of our favourites because I know I 1006 00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:56,240 would because I wrote an article about your one liners I'll send 1007 00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,760 you a copy I'll send it to you Charlie beforehand I. 1008 00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:04,440 Mean. You see this stuff? 1009 00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:05,960 I'm not an actor. So you can't. 1010 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,680 My favourite has to be. And it's one that's fondly 1011 00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,680 remembered. It's netted at the night race 1012 00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:21,400 where you said Jason radioed into to Renault and said, tell 1013 00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:25,200 JCB, who was his teammate at the time, Boolean to hold off 1014 00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:28,560 Mueller, who was behind him. And and you turn around and said 1015 00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:30,760 that's like trying to hold off the Terminator with a water 1016 00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:32,920 pistol. It's got to be. 1017 00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,520 And it's one of my favourite. Lines in any commentary, in any 1018 00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:40,920 sport, it's just brilliant. It is quite funny. 1019 00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:44,880 I don't remember. Saying that, but you see, once 1020 00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,200 again, I mean, oh, that's just how you say it because you're 1021 00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,360 just watching it. We didn't know he was going to 1022 00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:53,760 say, but those that night race was ridiculous. 1023 00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,240 I mean, in, in terms of its difficulty for the drivers. 1024 00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:00,040 I mean, they're, you know, Plato's there, He's blind as a 1025 00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:04,080 welder's dog. You can't, you know, you might 1026 00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:06,680 have you might have headlights, but somebody's headlights are 1027 00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:08,920 there and there and there. And then everyone looked like 1028 00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,360 brilliant idea of taping up their rear windows to stop the 1029 00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:12,720 lights. They just mean they couldn't see 1030 00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:14,880 who was passing them anyway. They couldn't see him in their 1031 00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:17,600 wing mirrors because they'd already lost them in turn 1. 1032 00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:23,320 So it's just these lunatic projectiles going around in the 1033 00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:25,480 dark, driving like rail, you know? 1034 00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:29,440 Oh, that'll be that's that's that's it means turn left. 1035 00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,000 Oh, no, that's great. Yeah. 1036 00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,240 So, oh, someone's helping me accelerate. 1037 00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:38,240 So I thought that, I thought that was an epic experiment. 1038 00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:40,560 But yes, it was. It was brilliant. 1039 00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:42,120 That race, Yeah. Levi. 1040 00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:44,720 Levi, I don't know if you, you or Matt have got any. 1041 00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:46,560 Well, I was going to say that race. 1042 00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:50,000 I think was so chaos it because I think probably my favourite 1043 00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:53,880 one liner of yours, Charlie was when Ivan Miller is out of 1044 00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:58,400 control, cuts across the track and then T Bones and unfortunate 1045 00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,680 James Thompson minded his own business to it. 1046 01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:03,480 You just exclaim. It's a goal. 1047 01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,520 But it is how they can sometimes look too, isn't it? 1048 01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:14,480 I mean, you know, I mean that honestly, that looks like the 1049 01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:19,840 red in the corner pocket in it's gone and snethered him was 1050 01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,240 always. I mean, you know, if ever there 1051 01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:26,520 was a place to have in those days, if they were, there was a 1052 01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,080 place to create colour and movement. 1053 01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:30,800 Shall we say it was a certain like that? 1054 01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:33,600 Yeah. Corum getting faster and faster 1055 01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,240 and faster and tighter and tighter and tighter and off 1056 01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:39,760 camber towards grass, towards a tyre wall with a head with a 1057 01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,760 right left at the end of it. I mean, if that's not create, 1058 01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:45,600 that's like a really bad intestinal tract. 1059 01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:49,160 You know, there's a blockage there and it's always going to 1060 01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:51,800 end in tears. And it did. 1061 01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,640 You know that little stop go corner was just ridiculous. 1062 01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,320 That was fantastic. Fantastically ridiculous, I 1063 01:00:58,320 --> 01:00:59,320 think. Amazingly. 1064 01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:03,480 Our our three favourite lines all come from the same lap, the 1065 01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,760 Terminator at the start of it, but it's a goal part way through 1066 01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:09,040 and then you can't kill that Vauxhall with a stick. 1067 01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:18,400 Yeah, I I genuinely can't remember them, but it sounds 1068 01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,080 like the sort of thing I'd say. My mother used to talk like 1069 01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,160 that. My mother was just incredibly 1070 01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:27,760 funny, clever talk, you know, she's a virus. 1071 01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,440 Talk of a nonsense. But it was always funny. 1072 01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:33,440 I mean, I was. It was just how you see it. 1073 01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:36,600 Yeah. Couldn't kill him with a stick. 1074 01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,920 Yeah, that right. Yes, that's, that is, that is an 1075 01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,200 expression of mine. It's a goal. 1076 01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,000 I've got to start. I've got to watch some of these. 1077 01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:44,840 I've got them all. They're all on. 1078 01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,840 They're all on tapes. You know, they used to send you 1079 01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:52,160 one after every round. And I, I never watched them, you 1080 01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:58,640 know, because I did, I didn't want, because it was so much 1081 01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:01,760 fun, because it was really genuine. 1082 01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:05,120 I never wanted it to be contrived, whether I was good or 1083 01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:06,920 whether I know where the hell out of anybody. 1084 01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:10,040 And I'm sure there are legions of people in the, in the latter 1085 01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:15,600 category, but I didn't want to listen to anything we'd done and 1086 01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:17,640 start to learn anything that we'd done. 1087 01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:23,320 And then, you know, develop a style or a, or a patter or or 1088 01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,840 whatever, you just go to a race, watch it. 1089 01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:28,040 That's funny, that's great. That was rubbish. 1090 01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,560 That wasn't fair, wasn't what he knows wasn't. 1091 01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:34,160 That's good. Much, much more, much more 1092 01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:37,640 natural. And I, and I, and I, I can't 1093 01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:42,360 overstate how much fun it was. And I got paid less their heart 1094 01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:45,200 and I got free, free parking and a free ticket. 1095 01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:49,560 So, you know, you'd have to be happy with that. 1096 01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:51,600 It was great. And we? 1097 01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:54,280 Thoroughly enjoyed listening to your work as well. 1098 01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,640 So, and I'm not, I'm not, I'm not trying to blow smoke up your 1099 01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,320 ass. I genuinely was. 1100 01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:03,000 And the other boys will tell you I was. 1101 01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:05,080 I was the biggest fan of your work. 1102 01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:08,840 So it's a real privilege to be here to, to be with you tonight. 1103 01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:11,280 You know, it's really, really, really exciting though. 1104 01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:13,160 I can't it all, it all runs. Together. 1105 01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:15,640 I mean, I just kept thinking about the racing, like when you 1106 01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:17,680 put me on the spot and said who do I think was a great? 1107 01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,520 I remember the ones I liked and the ones I didn't like as as 1108 01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:22,720 drivers I didn't. There wasn't any I didn't like. 1109 01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:24,400 But I remember the ones I knew more. 1110 01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,640 But there'll be a lesion of people I've bloody forgotten, 1111 01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:30,200 you know. You remember the year of Frank 1112 01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,400 Beeler and the the guy who'd been in the National Saloon Car 1113 01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:35,400 Championship. Binkliff. 1114 01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:38,080 John Binkliff. Yeah, yeah, he was a. 1115 01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:40,440 Good player, out of luck. It's just it never really 1116 01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:42,320 happened for him. He really, right? 1117 01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:43,920 It happened for him because he got to go. 1118 01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:45,360 Yeah. I mean, I remember. 1119 01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,840 I remember saying things that that it's a preposterous thing 1120 01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:51,480 to say, but it made me laugh anyway. 1121 01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:55,920 And it was, I think, I think it was John Bintcliff actually, 1122 01:03:56,160 --> 01:04:01,160 who'd gone off. He'd been punted off before at 1123 01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:03,480 Donington at the top of the hill when they're really ripping 1124 01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:07,040 before they go down the Dipper there and he was just flying 1125 01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:12,720 across the grass and all you could see was the car flying 1126 01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:15,760 across the grass because the BBC were doing it live. 1127 01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,040 So it was a tight shot. And I just said it looks like a 1128 01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:22,520 scene from the Sound of Music. You know the hills are alive 1129 01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:25,240 with the sound of out because you could just say this lovely 1130 01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:31,080 out, big cliffs off big cliffs gone straight off and ploughing 1131 01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:32,600 through the fit. Look at him fly cutting the 1132 01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:34,000 daisies. It looks like a scene out of The 1133 01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:36,320 Sound of Music. That that though you mention 1134 01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:38,360 that that. Reminds me of of of a like you 1135 01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,520 say. A funny moment that I remember 1136 01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:45,680 Menu going off at at Alton and he nearly ended up in the lake 1137 01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:50,720 in the Mondeo and John Cleland came round on the on the next 1138 01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:56,720 lap under the safety car and said on over the radio which the 1139 01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,320 BBC broadcasts. I hope he's brought his fucking 1140 01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,600 trunks, obviously. Obviously bleeped. 1141 01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:07,120 Out the the the expletive, but it's stuff like that that that 1142 01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:11,320 just indeed itself to so many people. 1143 01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:13,200 But it's all. All of that stuff is. 1144 01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:15,960 Just what it looks like and it's, I don't know, it's like a 1145 01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:19,640 I'm, I'm lucky to have a cartoonist mind. 1146 01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,960 So I just, I just see, I just see them like that. 1147 01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:26,760 And it was, but it was, it was, it was, it was seriously funny. 1148 01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:29,480 And I never mentioned Patrick Watts, who was a psychopath, 1149 01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:36,160 that Patrick was brilliant in any race because he was, he was 1150 01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:37,920 the grenade you rolled under the table. 1151 01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:40,880 You know, he was just yeah, yeah. 1152 01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:44,960 You're alongside Patrick Watts. Light green touch paper retire, 1153 01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:49,960 safe distance. I I raced, Patrick and I raced 1154 01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:50,800 together. He's a mate. 1155 01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:55,880 And we raced together at, in a saline Mustang at at a European 1156 01:05:55,880 --> 01:06:00,720 Le Mans race at Spa. I knew I didn't need to bring my 1157 01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:04,400 overalls. I don't know why once we toss 1158 01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:06,680 the coin and he got the start the race, I should have just 1159 01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:08,960 gone back to the transporter and got James there. 1160 01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:17,040 He got to the bus stop on lap one before before he T boned a 1161 01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:20,920 Porsche and I saw him coming down the pit lane, down the hill 1162 01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:25,360 there and I thought I can see all four wheels and he's coming 1163 01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:27,360 towards me. That's not right. 1164 01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:30,800 You shouldn't see four wheels in the straight line. 1165 01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:34,800 So that was the end of that. He was, yeah. 1166 01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:39,240 Patrick was really, really enthusiastic and didn't and 1167 01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,440 didn't have a. He needed a bigger fuse. 1168 01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:46,440 He, he was great fun. He is great fun. 1169 01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:49,560 And he's still. Exactly the same Oh yeah, we, we 1170 01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:51,640 had a lot we. Had a lot of fun together, but 1171 01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:55,280 because, I mean, this was but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1172 01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:57,200 There were. I had, I had good. 1173 01:06:57,240 --> 01:06:59,280 I never had a bad experience with anyone. 1174 01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:02,840 Cleland was was a real a favourite of mine. 1175 01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:05,600 Yeah, yeah. No, he's a good act. 1176 01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:08,760 Yeah, he's nuts. In in a good way. 1177 01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:11,720 It's been an unbridled joy talking to you boys I've had. 1178 01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:15,520 I hope you get something out of it, but it's and I hope I 1179 01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:18,120 haven't defamed anybody, but it was just bloody funny the whole 1180 01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:19,600 thing. Yeah. 1181 01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:22,320 Just got one more for. You Charlie, obviously you raced 1182 01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:26,600 in 95 and commentated in 97 where they were set distance 1183 01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:29,440 races. From 98 onwards we had the 1184 01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:32,560 Sprint, just an out and out charge and we had the feature 1185 01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:34,440 race obviously broken up with the pit stops. 1186 01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:37,200 What did, what did you think about the introduction of the 1187 01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:39,000 pit stops? Did did you like them? 1188 01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:42,520 Did you like the variety of two different types or did you have 1189 01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:45,320 a a preference over the for the Sprint or the feature? 1190 01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:47,360 I'm I'm a simple soul. I. 1191 01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:51,480 Just like man waves flag, off you go, man waves another flag, 1192 01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:53,560 it's over. That was a lot easier for me 1193 01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:56,320 once you had the science of pit stops and who stuck hidden and 1194 01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:59,760 who hadn't that that put an unreasonable burden on my 1195 01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:02,720 limited mental faculties. I found a half mortality. 1196 01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,640 I mean, look, it shuffled it up and it gave a great opportunity 1197 01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:08,600 for people to make mistakes in pit stops. 1198 01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:12,280 But the trouble with pit stop races, as we all know, is you 1199 01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:15,160 all then have a period, although the window is narrow. 1200 01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:18,080 So the period wasn't too big, but you always have a period 1201 01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:23,720 where the real the real leader is in P6 or something like that. 1202 01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:27,800 You always kind of wait for your pit stop to rinse through before 1203 01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:29,080 you get back to where you're going. 1204 01:08:29,359 --> 01:08:32,439 The flip side is you got a lot more names to have let a lap 1205 01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:35,319 across a year. And that that was a good thing. 1206 01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:40,760 And that also brought that also brought those, the fabulous 1207 01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:44,359 mechanical guys into the picture a lot more. 1208 01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:47,880 Yeah, because the guys, the guys in the garage, mate, they're 1209 01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:49,920 the, they're rock stars. You know, the guys and girls in 1210 01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:53,479 the garage is a rock star. And that was a good fun part of 1211 01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:55,200 it. Them drilling them, getting it 1212 01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:56,960 right. That was really good. 1213 01:08:58,240 --> 01:08:59,960 That brought a whole new element to it. 1214 01:09:00,359 --> 01:09:03,160 But but a short, fast Sprint race, fast and dirty. 1215 01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:09,720 Nothing better with an apology never happened to me before. 1216 01:09:10,399 --> 01:09:16,600 I'm so terribly sorry. Cigarette and I to be honest 1217 01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:21,000 with you, the the world super bikes was actually the most fun 1218 01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,920 motorcycle racing. I did that in the pretty supers 1219 01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:26,359 because I was lucky. I got there when it was bike 1220 01:09:26,359 --> 01:09:27,680 column bike. I don't know if you know about 1221 01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:30,880 the bikes, but it was Colin Bayless and Troy, Troy Bayless 1222 01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,080 and Colin Edwards, you know, and Bayless and Edwards and the 1223 01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:36,920 freaking races they had that was just out of this. 1224 01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:39,399 But yeah. And the I, I, I mean, the 1225 01:09:39,399 --> 01:09:42,439 British super bikes was fun. You know, that was in the shaky 1226 01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:45,640 burns, yes, Don Reynolds era. You know they. 1227 01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:48,960 Were they were all really good eras that that it was it was 1228 01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:54,200 great racing but the by by a league it was super touring was 1229 01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:58,720 the best fun yeah and. And and for me as a driver. 1230 01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:00,920 Doing Bathurst was the best fun just to have done. 1231 01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:04,000 Yeah, it's all good. No, I can't. 1232 01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,400 I can't do it anymore. I can't hold my stomach in and 1233 01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:08,440 I'm too tight to buy a new race suit so fuck it. 1234 01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:12,400 I just had a little. Flashback. 1235 01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:14,880 Super Touring drivers, but not the cars. 1236 01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:16,840 Of course. You came back to do the 1237 01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:19,520 commentary for the Masters race in 2004. 1238 01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:21,320 Oh yeah, I did. And that was. 1239 01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:22,880 Great. I really enjoyed that. 1240 01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:25,200 That was the I was just talking shit again. 1241 01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:29,320 The commentary just went in. Perfectly with it was a race of 1242 01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:34,000 like we all want to win this and but also the shit would damage 1243 01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:36,840 the cars and all of that sort of stuff and the commentary fitted 1244 01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:39,960 in perfectly with it. Thanks and I. 1245 01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:47,200 And I, as I do recall, as I do recall, Matt, I think that that 1246 01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:50,560 Patrick Watts didn't leave anybody to let anyone down. 1247 01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:54,040 And I just I'm sure in the first one, it was at Donington, he 1248 01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:57,760 fucking he took to the field. I think he missed the old 1249 01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:01,760 hairpin entirely and re entered the field and fucking it was, it 1250 01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:04,640 was T-bone somebody into the corner pocket. 1251 01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:07,480 I can't remember who it was. And it was just it had to 1252 01:11:07,480 --> 01:11:09,680 happen, didn't it? It was. 1253 01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:13,520 Everybody was true to form. Yeah, it was. 1254 01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:16,720 It was, it was fun. I think I did that with the 1255 01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:18,880 lovely Ben Edwards, didn't I? Yeah, I think it was. 1256 01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,520 Yeah. Yes, Yeah, Yeah. 1257 01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:28,440 Very able fellow. So I'd like to thank Charlie for 1258 01:11:28,440 --> 01:11:32,320 for coming on today's show and telling us all these stories 1259 01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:35,920 from from back in the day in the Super Touring era touring car 1260 01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:37,880 racing. Charlie, thank you so much. 1261 01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:42,280 You've been a much requested guest from our listeners and 1262 01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:45,480 it's great that you've been able to come on and and share your 1263 01:11:45,480 --> 01:11:48,000 stories. So thanks very much my pleasure 1264 01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:48,600 mate. Thanks for. 1265 01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:52,040 Taking me back there, I've still got a smile on my face. 1266 01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:53,480 It was such a good thing to remember. 1267 01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:56,640 Meanwhile, join us next. Week where we'll look back at 1268 01:11:56,640 --> 01:12:01,840 the first ever live BTCC race held on BBC Grandstand back at 1269 01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:05,560 Brands Hatch in 1997. Until then, we'll see you next 1270 01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:06,280 week. Goodbye.