Stories from Super Touring. Welcome to another episode of
Stories from Super Touring. This week we're looking back at
the major rivalries of the era, with myself, Al, Adam and
producer Matt looking back and discussing at the rivalries of
the era and all of the major talking points from Cleland and
Sofa to Ride Dylan Reed. The 90s had its fair share of
rivalries, but we'll be also looking at some of the smallest
spats as well and we'll also be looking at the times that team
mates didn't always see eye to eye.
So, gentlemen, how are we all this evening?
Very good. Thank you mate.
Very well, yeah. Not bad at all.
Thank you. Yeah, yeah.
Looking forward to probably looking at a few fallouts whilst
falling out, so yeah. More fun in that with each
other. Yeah, well, I know that Nigel
Mansell was prone to a rivalry, so I'm sure that will will come
up. You've not even asked the first
question. You've started already.
My yellow card is at hand. Don't.
You worry about that? I am looking forward to
discussing a bit of moments also.
Yeah, that'll be good. Glad I'm not having it.
I'm not having it. You can't talk about noise like
that, our Nige. Producer Matt, I think you might
have to start refereeing in a bit.
Well, I was, I was just going to throw in an awful pun about how
they had a bit of a needle between them, but.
Don't worry, it'll only start a TIFF.
Get it out of your systems. That's get it out of your
systems, Matt. I need you on my side because
I've got them. Two are always against me when
it comes to our Nige. Yeah, Adam's feeling like he's
got a bit of a bulls on him at the moment.
Oh yeah, completely all we should do when you start
mentioning no red 5. So anyway, gentlemen, does
anyone want to go first with When You Think Super Touring
Rivalry? I mean, I'm guessing, I think
the first one that everyone probably thinks of is Colon and
Sofa 1992. Should we get into that one
first of all? Yeah, I mean, it's actually not
that big a rival. I mean, obviously the incident
itself was huge, but the actual rivalry that came out of it in
the long term was actually Cleland and Harvey.
Yes, Because as we know, we've seen, we've spoken to all sides
of the story now. So we've heard all the each
angle of it. And John and Steve probably both
a bit to blame for the actual incidents.
But it was over pretty much in a couple of months for those two.
They got back speaking, you know, not long after.
But that rivalry and that sort of not enemies, but the fact
that John Cleland and Tim Harvey still don't see eye to eye to
this day, actually, you know, it.
It's pretty. It's pretty mad considering it's
over 30 years ago now. I think the Cleland and Super
part of that incident, I think that would probably have been
more of a rivalry if it had happened earlier in the season.
So they were racing again within a fortnight.
But of course, having six months off, we we all know the story of
what happened in those in those months and all of that.
So they came back in 93 and they'd sort of put it behind
them. But as you mentioned now, I
think that the the real rivalry that came from that incident
really was Cleland and Harvey, which seemed to roll on really
for a few more years and that, you know, on the track and, as
you say, even longer, a few more decades off of it.
Yeah. Yeah, it it's, you know, the
the, as we said before we started recording, they had a
coming together at Snetton in 94.
There was a big one at Thruxton in 97 where they were both
fighting back after changing onto the wet tires.
That race where Tim nearly won for Peugeot, Him and John came
together then. And even now whenever I speak to
John Cleland, there's always a Tim Harvey joke in there
somewhere. It's crazy, isn't it really,
that those two didn't even come together on track, but they are
the ones that fell out with each other?
Because the championship was taken.
It kind of shows how mentally rivalries can develop as well,
where as you say, that wasn't necessarily on track
confrontation and they were rivals.
But then again, we were discussing before the show,
weren't we? There's there's probably a lot
of on track confrontations between drivers at points that
weren't really rivalries either. Well, they didn't come together
on track at once one point that season because the start of the
year Vauxhall were dominant because they were they were
ready with their car. Yes and the BMWs were struggling
with the brand new 318. Vickley and Prodrive both didn't
really know how to get best out of that new car.
And it was only when Victoria Lee and Tim found out, and if I
remember rightly, it was a flexing rear suspension arm that
Tim diagnosed on the BMW that when they realized that this was
an issue, they fixed it. And.
It's quick. Quick then, was it?
Tim was He won five or six in a row, didn't he?
Yes. And the Vauxhall was nowhere
near, so they never actually came together on track.
There was not one controversial moment between them on track.
That was that one flashpoint with SOPA.
And, and really that Silverstone finale, the only reason they
ended up in the same place was because of the different
qualifiers they'd all had. They'd all had.
And so for being the wrong way down the track at one point in
the race, charging back with half a rare bumper, it wasn't
for that. You probably would have seen in
that race the BMW's clear off, never be seen again and Harvey
wins the title and there's no moment like that.
One thing that's always stuck with me about that 92 finale is
the rivalry that should have come out of it as such was Hoy
versus Harvey after that incident of Cops.
Because until then, as far as I remember, as long as this is
correct, I think that Hoy was actually in a winning
championship position at that point, or at least for a lot of
the race he was because he was by far the lead of the
contenders. And then that incident, of
course, put them behind Clement and Sopa, which led to what
happened later on. So in a way, the one that should
be sort of most agreed was, was Hoy, in my opinion.
But I don't think anything ever really came out of that.
Too much other stuff going on right there, I think after that.
And Will was just too nice. He not too nice.
He was just a lovely bloke, wasn't he?
You couldn't really. I can't remember a time where
even when he was angry, he was still a nice man.
But he wasn't a repeat offender like some of them, was he?
Where he'd continue to also dish it out.
It's much like we're discussing in the Darlington 95 episode
where most drivers I think would would try and blame someone
else. And he was very much in his own
way, holding his hands up. Certain possibly, but he will
will won't be featuring much in our list of rivalries.
I I think tonight. Well, unless we get on to the
team mates because you did have a few, few issues there.
Brands. When we talk about rivalries and
maybe we should do it just a couple of minutes on on on what
what we're considering a rivalry here because, as you say, will
Holly had his run insurance with people on track.
He had his run insurance with team mates Wilson Science on
track. You wouldn't have called any of
them rivalries, I guess because of how they responded.
And a rivalry is when it kind of starts to get chipper off track,
isn't it as? Well, when that is.
Involved. That's a rivalry.
Grab someone around the throat, that's when he starts properly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be a rivalry or a war
of words. You know where the where where
the genuinely aren't getting on. And in the press having to go
with each other continuously. Yeah.
And I think I think that was kind of almost answered a couple
of minutes ago and talking about Will Hoy in that, yeah, he did
have some incidents, you know, a couple with his teammates routes
at Brands, Bailey, obviously Silverstone and all of that.
But I think that the approach of Will Hoy, that wasn't
argumentative, that probably prevented any of the you.
Didn't have an ego, did they? No.
I'm sure we're going to come on
to some characters later that you know, had Will Hoy been
involved in it, it may not have went as it went as it did.
It may have fizzled down. But because he wasn't, obviously
it was a it blew up a bit more. I don't think the grandstand
cameras were ever following Will Hoy after they were maybe
following a few other people. There was once, there was only
once that I remember seeing him pissed off, which was at Alton
Park in 96 and there was a start line crash and and he ended up
in the pit war. He, I can't remember who
triggered it. I know Radissick was involved
and he went into the wall on one side and he went in on the other
side and the camera was walking with Will down the pit lane and
he was, he was pissed off then. And I think that's the only time
I've I've seen I've seen him like that and not, not the
normal sort of call and jolly well that we all know.
Thruxton, 91, He was annoyed with Jonathan Palmer.
Well done, BMW. Well done, BMW.
Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's the only other time
I can think and I'll see. That's championship pressure,
isn't it? You know, And of course, talking
of BMWs in 1991 and set twos on track.
Can't forget the one and only Netan lingering, can we I?
Think we've been trying to find a time to discuss Netan Linger
on this podcast, haven't we for a while?
Alex has just found it. She had a brief stint in the
tight in in the championship, but yeah, she did make her mark,
didn't she? Particularly that afternoon at
Snetterton when she came across Doctor Palmer on track.
And there's Netan. I bet she's not best pleased
either. She certainly doesn't look as
though she thinks it was her fault.
This is going to be, and she doesn't.
Hell hath. No fury like a woman ran, but
the crowd loved it. I think people maybe have this
perception that, you know, she was trundling around at the back
and she wasn't she she had decent pace.
So I met certainly round one at Silverstone.
I remember she was part of that 5 or 6 car battle for 6th place
and you know, and this one at Snetterton, she, she held Palmer
off for a few laps. Well and he was in a pro drive.
Works BMW as well. Yeah, yeah, yes.
So. So she was definitely worthy of
her place. And it was a real move of
frustration, wasn't it? I think which is probably what
she she didn't appreciate the gesture.
Yeah, I don't think anybody would have.
Like you look at the movie, it was never on, was it?
It's never on, but it it I think as well, it was an underfunded
outfit who were doing well in a race and then here comes.
The works. BMW works BMW and so I can tell
you now. And just clean out.
And I love the fact that she went over to him, pulled the
door open. Where am I supposed to go?
I think that's what she says or something along those lines.
What are you trying to do? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's. And the cheer from the crack.
The cheer. And then obviously topped off
with Murray's Hell hath no fury like a woman rammed.
If there was any doubt as to whether Nathan made it or not, I
can I can tell you a little story is that about a year
later, extremely randomly, so my mum got a pet rat and she she
knew the rest of us were massively into motor racing and
she couldn't come up with a name.
And then eventually she came up with Nathan.
Oh wow, OK, because she knew that there was a touring car
link, so she went with it. So there you go, nested Lingwin.
If you're listening, she. Does follow our socials so she
might well be listening. But I think that that corner,
you know, I think you'd mentioned it, Levi.
The move came as sort of stunk of bitter desperation.
And that corner had other similar incidents.
Beela and Leslie was was one. Yeah, I think 1994, it was
either Jan Lammers twice or it was each Volvo once took someone
out there. Volvo once.
Yeah, it was each Volvo once took someone out there as well.
I think it was a, it was one of those corners that probably
built up to, I suppose because you've got all the momentum that
comes pretty much from the end of the s s through the bum hole
and round Coram on that particular layout.
And then it's one of the best overtaking opportunities and I
suppose a lot of desperate moves, a lot of the moves that
happened there just stink of desperation a little bit.
Colin and Thompson. As well, I like the layout as it
was. Then, but it was better than it.
Is yes, yeah, yeah. Way, way better and the bum
hole, like it was just a great corner because a lot of the time
it wasn't quite flat out, but it was nearly flat out or if used
on new tires, it was flat out within as the tires were
wearing, it wasn't quite flat out.
So you'd always got that the compression like the feeling of
the car literally bottoming out the, you know, jumping back at
the top and you needed, you couldn't afford to come off the
throttle for too long. It was just literally a very
slight at times. And obviously the wet very
interesting. But like you said, it's that
momentum from coming out of the chicane.
The bum hole was there, but you didn't like it.
Just you didn't want it to affect you with that run all the
ways at Quorum. Yeah.
Is that the, is that the right then?
Yeah, Yeah. So it was all momentum.
It was all momentum and when you go on the new circuit now I just
think it's been ruined to be honest.
Now, as you said, Matt, one of the incidents down there, 1996,
Thompson and Clement in the Vectors when they were both
quite squabbling for the Vectors first within that day, which
Thompson ended up getting. That was an interesting teammate
dynamic, wasn't it? And it's something that we spoke
with Ray Malik about as well. It wasn't so much a rivalry, but
you could tell it wasn't the easiest relationship in the
world, was it? I think from the the podcast
that you guys did with James Thompson, he said he was, he was
really pleased to just be there. He didn't mind that he had the
second choice of tyres and it was all of that.
But that was 95, I think 9, I think, I think 96 with the new
car. And they weren't right at the
front. It was a real time to say that
I'm just as good as as John or anyone else.
And yeah, it can't have really been easy because I'm, you know,
James hadn't had a teammate before and the one that he got
was Cleland. And it can't have been easy for
Cleland because he had similarly aged Jeff Allen was similar sort
of experience. And John was slightly in front.
And then all of a sudden you've got someone half your age that's
pipping you and qualifying and all of that sort of stuff.
I could very much imagine that day was much more about the
Vectors first win and it was more about asserting dominance
if you like. Yes, absolutely.
Those two were both sides say they both had respect for each
other, but when it came to the rivalry, it definitely was
there. They both wanted to get that
first win for the for the Vectra and, and as you say, James got
it. But even in 95, you know, John
said he found it tough because as Matt just says, he's had his
best mate, Jeff Allen, in the car alongside him for the last
few years and pretty much had the measure of him.
And suddenly this young upstart is coming along and, and
suddenly set in at the bar a bit higher and, and, and John's
having to match it. And, you know, he did it.
He did it brilliantly in 95. Wonderful championship year.
But yeah, James certainly made things a lot more uncomfortable
for John than than he was used to.
Speaking of Colin, then also in 1995 he had a bit of a run in
with Rickard Riedel during that championship run at Brands
Hatch. It got quite nasty that day,
didn't it, Between the two of them.
Yeah, it's it was, it was quite a good-natured championship
battle between the two of them. There was the odd bit of banter.
You know, John has told us about how he would say to Ricard, I'm
going to pass you here when you have one of your bad starts
again sort of thing, which you know that, Yeah.
Which then did happen, but it did get quite tense at brands at
Bank Holiday, August Bank Holiday meeting and they always
seemed to, I don't know if there was something in the air around
around that time of year because every year it always seemed to
kick off. But in race one, Ricard hit the
back of Clelands Vauxhall. That meant Will Hoy was allowed
to go around the outside pretty much unchallenged to take the
win, his first win for years and his first win in a Renault.
And then in race 2, as they're battling for the for the lead,
it looks like, and I do think, and I maybe Adam and Matt might
on yourself, Levi might disagree, but it looked like
John very, very slightly touches the back of Ricard as they come
in through the last corner and he sort of tips Ricard into a
spin. And by the time Ricard catches
it and gets going, John's gone and he takes the win.
And from what it sounded like there were Tom Walkinshaw was
going around to all the photographers saying, if you got
photos of this, if you got photos of that, if you got a
photo of John touching our car and then you've got John in the
pits going Vauxhall, then designer like that.
Volvo designed it like that. It was all getting very tense
and you could tell that the championship battle was coming
to it. Yeah.
Coming to to boil, should we
say? Very interesting.
Yeah. Do you think, do you think John
hit the back? I think it looked just like the
slightest touch. He must have.
He must have because you wouldn't lose a front wheel
drive car thought the back end of flight coming out of there
was like you needed needed help, didn't it?
So I'm almost certain that John's headlight was kind of
knocked a bit out of shape. And it didn't.
It didn't just fall. Out.
So Vauxhall didn't design it like that.
John's adamant he didn't touch him.
I I think it might have been the first example of the can opener.
I I was thinking this sounds very can opener.
It was it was a story car move when it was a it was a an
experienced touring car movie without it being a blatant.
And it'll be in his head as well.
Ricard got me in race one. Yeah, yeah.
I'm going to get him back. Yeah.
That's what he and that's what it was then and he always was
throughout, you know, even the time when I was there, you know,
you, you had to give it a good as you got because otherwise
you'd just get bullied. And we spoke about this before.
You've got to, you know, you do that or do it again and then
that's what it was like. You know, you're never going to
get away with it. Similarly NASCAR I think.
You know NASCAR is to the extreme, isn't it?
Like they will do things to the extreme, but you know that's the
same, like you've never forgotten.
Might not be the next race, but I will get more revenge.
It did seem to be Bank Holiday France.
Was those fractures. I mean, maybe it's the
combination of one of the tighter venues on the calendar.
Yeah, there is. There wasn't much opportunities
and I guess if you were one and two in a title battle following
each other in a race, you'd get quite frustrated and and the
stakes are higher than in April or May, isn't it?
I guess rather than than than in August where you're in the last
stretch that it did always seem to kick off, not always between
championship track and it's I'm sure we'll get on to.
No, it's true. Sometimes between guest drivers.
And who on earth would you be talking about there?
You might as well start get the out your system.
Start at the start. Shall we donate Donnington 93
Technically not a British touring car event, of course No,
no, the shoe town the man saw fresh off his Victory tour in
the US. It's come to the.
That's what made it so big though, wasn't it?
Because Nigel. One and US in two years.
Nigel. But Nigel hadn't raced in
Britain throughout 1993, obviously was racing in America,
so this was the only chance British fans could welcome the
reigning champion effectively in both F1.
Didn't he hold it for like one week?
Wasn't the F1 reigning champion and Indycars something like
that? So that's why the crowd was huge
that day. It was bigger than the European
Grand Prix in April. It was massive, absolutely
massive, yeah. It was a huge event.
That was a man. Sylmania Gentlemen at its
finest. So.
Maybe one of them. Yeah.
And obviously, as we know already, Tiff and Nigel never
really got on, didn't really say something to do with a Formula
Three drive. I think so, yeah.
It's it's roots are in the early 80s aren't.
They Yeah, and a. Lot of people wouldn't have
realized that at the time. They thought it'd all stemmed
from obviously the incident there, but it wasn't.
It goes a lot. Further, they already didn't
like each other at the start before, so I felt sorry for Tiff
in that incident at Donnington because.
Because the whole of Donningson was against him.
Yes. Effectively, yeah.
Literally. Yeah, absolutely.
Of all the events, the biggest grad you've ever seen in your
life and everybody hates Tiffed up.
Yeah, you know that way. So.
But like I said, I think the accident had already happened.
The time to time Tiff really arrived at it, you know, it was
already done. It was already happening and
Tiff didn't really make much of a difference to what was already
a crash. It was already happening, wasn't
it? Yeah, Mansell was heading to
that that brick wall already. It just went a bit harder and a
bit it made it for it was a nasty accident.
Made it more violent. Yeah, the obviously the the
Mondeo was destroyed, but he made front page news, wasn't it?
It's, it's mad to think about it now you know, it's, Can you
imagine any touring car race being on the front of the sun or
the mirror and the Daily Mail or whatever, you know?
Even we imagine if they did it now, right, they say Verstappen
or Hamilton, probably the two biggest names in Formula One.
For a long time. I can't see being on the front
page of a newspaper on a Monday morning.
No, I can't. It'd be on the back page.
It's not the front pages. Yeah, but, and that's the whole
thing. We put things into perspective
really just and you try and explain this to people just how
big touring cars were generally. But also there's that
comparison, I think from months or mania and how things were
then compared to like your Hamilton's now.
Yeah, Hamilton's big is massive. We've got lots of support, but
nowhere near what he was back then.
No, because people could people could associate themselves.
They could they could appreciate months of being, you know, the
older guy with a mustache working bloke sold his house
gone motor at like anyone that you sell a Formula One grid now
and even most of the probably the towing car paddock now, like
they've never wanted to die in their life.
I don't know what work is, do you know what I mean?
But Mansell was a working bloke that had done what he could to
to push everything to make it and go.
And that's why people could relate to him.
And I think that's why he had the following he had and as and
as big as the wins. And looking at the amount of
times that Hamilton's weren't at Silverstone, he's never had
that, never had man Sylmania, like he's never had that like
that. That's that was something else
back then. Yeah, it was.
And it and it and I arrived at Donington.
I felt Nigel's comments didn't help Tiff either.
I felt at the end, but as you say, they already didn't get on.
So that's always going to be that way.
I guess I did feel sorry for Tiff because even though we put
up that accident a couple of weeks ago on on our Facebook
pages and there's, there's one guy going.
I still hate Tiffany Dell for this.
And I'm like I thought I said, but.
He did nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. Nothing wrong.
He comments to yourself, Adam. Sorry, sorry, was my name on the
end of that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think he probably looks back and regrets that because I think
he that was a hurting man. He'd never admit it, though.
He'd never admit it. He'd never admit.
It he would never admit. I think that's a man that was in
a lot of pain. I think I'm just reaction.
To it don't stop the accent now I'm already doing it I'm already
doing it he's. Been done from his Anthony Reed
impressions too, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
I felt for Tiff because Nigel's comments weren't helpful, but it
put touring cars. I mean, you already had the big
hit from 92, the season finale, but again, 93 now.
You had Nigel Mansell front page of everything.
It put touring cars on the map. It put the championship on the
map. As you say, it wasn't a
technically a BTCC race, but it was effectively that.
It was the same cars. It was a BTCC track.
It was all. In that race, everybody knew
what BTCC was. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
On ground stand. So yeah, it's people would
TuneIn just to watch Nigel and probably fell in love with
touring cars when they did so. And I think that that is what
led on to Round 2 a few years later.
You know, they between them they only did about 20 touring car
races, but they did manage to come together.
But they were the undercard. They were the undercard five
years later. It was exactly that.
It was the undercard where you have two older fighters renewing
their rivalry again as guests. Again, Frank Brands Bank holiday
August weekend. Yeah, and you add, of course,
Mansell, the guest driver in the Ford is second guest appearance
of the season, Tiffin the Nissan as a Top Gear feature.
And they came together again, didn't they?
And Nigel and Tiff, well, they came together twice that day,
once on track and months off track.
It was in the feature race. Nigel was already pretty
annoyed. Another run in he had quite
regularly throughout 98 was with Mark Lemma, and Nigel's race
ended on lap one in the first race after an incident with what
he felt was Lemma's fault. And then in race 2, Nigel
allegedly went into the back of Tiffany Dell and claimed that
Tiff was brake testing him. And then, yeah, as you say,
around the back of the pits, whilst all the cameras were
focused on Reedy and Rydell, which we'll talk about in a bit,
I'm sure Nigel and Tiff had their own little scuffle.
And Nigel was in a very bad mood that weekend.
He was falling out with everyone, bless him, to the
point where he was, he was even furious with the TV producers
because they had played his radio rant outs when he got his
drive through penalty and he was like, that's it, I'm not racing
at Silverstone. I don't want a camera, I don't
want this. And yeah, he was his own worst
enemy that weekend, I think. I think he did.
He'd had such, such a good run at Donnington in the wet.
It was never going to be the same.
A bone dry Brands Hatch, was it? No.
And it was something that you guys mentioned on a previous
episode. You know, Donnington that year
saw the best of him, and Brand definitely saw the worst.
Saw the worst? You know, you, you mentioned it
to me. It's a comical little thing You
mentioned about about Mark Lemmer.
Of course, they'd also come together and practice at
Donington. Yeah.
And like, I'm sure that when you look at the entry list at the
beginning of 1998, you look at the entry list and go, oh, who's
going to have a fallings out this year?
You just would not have put Nigel Mansell and Mark Lemmer as
the duo that we're going to, that we're going to keep
clashing. No, you wouldn't, would you?
But certainly, you know, somehow these things just come to bear.
It always just seemed to to be, it was always the unfortunate
Mark Lemmer who, as you say, practice.
I'd have run in with him and then I'd have run in with him at
Brands as well. And yeah, it never rains with
pause. But whilst we're on the subject
of that weekend brands, should we talk about the main event
now? Because it was, and again, as we
discussed earlier, another, another August bank holiday
running with championship implications.
In the silver corner, the Volvo S40 of Ricard Rydell and in the
white corner, the Nissan Primera of Anthony Reed.
And I think again, this is this is a situation where the Nissans
have started to kind of catch up.
Anthony got a very good run mid season and I think Ricard was
feeling the pressure and Anthony also kind of realised this could
be done. And I think for both of them,
those emotions came to a head on a weekend where they were really
the class of the field as well, weren't they?
Especially in the feature race where there was a lot of
defending from Ricard, wasn't there?
So yeah, Anthony wasn't even in the sort of the discussion at
the preseason talk about who was going to win the championship.
Nobody, nobody had Anthony Reed down on their on their most
people thought Allen Menu was going to take a second title.
Ricard was mentioned by a couple, but most people had had
Allen menu down as the championship favorite and really
took the first win, ironically in the Mansell Donington race.
So his first win that weekend and went on this insane run of
Sprint race wins. But curiously, never took a
feature race went, which was always a bit it was a.
Bit odd. It was odd, wasn't it?
Was always something was happening either, like a
Donington. He went off, didn't he?
And yeah, not kill. It didn't quite work.
So at the halfway point of 98, Ricard is got a good lead in the
championship and I think his nearest challenger is Alan Alan.
Yeah. And then suddenly out of
nowhere, Reed wins Bang Bang, bang while at four or five
Sprint races in a row. Then you get to knock hill,
Reedy wins again and Ricard's in the barrier.
And suddenly that championship lead that looked so comfortable
for Ricard was a lot closer. And not only that, Anthony and
the Nissan at that point with a quicker package.
So, yeah, I can I can totally understand Ricard feeling the
pressure there. And when you actually look at
the incident, it's it's not that awful.
It's no different. Do you know what I mean?
It's no, don't get me wrong. The, the the right decision was
made. It was a shove.
It did push Ricard wide, it was the can opener but not not at
clear ways. So the right decision was made
for them to reverse the positions, but it wasn't.
I was shocked at how angry Ricard got about it.
It it felt like an incident that kind of showed how touring car
racing has perhaps matured and become more professional through
the era. If you look at an incident like
92 where it's quite a professional found from Steve
Sofer, that move at Love Field, you know, there's no ambiguity
about it. He misses the apex by about 10
meters, Samson to the side of Cleland.
And then you compare that incident where as you say, it's
a shove it it was wasn't really the worst we ever seen and it
has elicited a quite a violent reaction from record based race,
wasn't it? Yeah, pressure.
The incident wasn't 1,000,000 miles away from what we
discussed earlier with Ryder and Cleland in 95 going up.
It wasn't 1,000,000 miles away from that.
And yeah, so to, to be on the receiving end of it, it was the,
it was the pressure of the championship as as you guys have
said, like halfway through the year, he didn't have a
particularly close challenger. I know that after the Donnington
meeting, I think Cleland was second in the championship.
And of course he, you know, he wasn't ever really going to be
in the fight. And then you, you had all of
these people that were second at one point, you know, Thompson,
Cleland, Menu, probably Plato as well.
And all the time Ricard was building up that lead.
And then, yeah, so when Reid went on his run, it must have
just got to him like, oh, shit, I might be about to lose this.
And, and I think it was the pressure and I think it was that
that created the reaction because as you said, the the
incident is the sort of thing that happens in just about every
race. Yeah, I'm shocked.
And he reacts. Still angry, especially being
Ricard. And Ricard didn't like the
Archie bargie. He wasn't.
That wasn't him. No, he's come from a single
seater background as well. So he but you could just tell
his character he wasn't, he wanted to it all be fair.
He wasn't unlike a lot of single seats of guys that have gone
into that, you either accept it and get on with it and you dish
it out as good as you receive it.
But he wasn't, he just wasn't that a person.
And I think that's why it got to him.
Yeah, that's. True, you could physically see
that he got to him. I think as well, I guess Rick
Harden and also Alan Meni, they were kind of the two drivers in
that period that had worked, worked, worked for years and got
their chance at the title. And I think Ricard, where he'd
seen Alan do it so easily and comfortably the year before.
It must have felt, especially at that time where he thought he'd
lost that race as well. He must have felt like such a
blow thinking this is my chance and I'm not going to take it and
that the level of pressure where it's year and year and year is
built as well. That's probably where we saw a
very different regard to as you say, Adam, that the one we
normally saw who was never really that kind of, you know,
as good as he gets it driver, he was always OK, I'll take it,
I'll absorb it and I'll just do my thing.
He's. One of these guys that wants to
put it on pole, go off in the lead and win the race on his own
and and fastest lap. Do all of that and just win it.
He wasn't the guy that was in the middle of the pack or in
amongst it that wanted to get his elbows out.
I think he had to learn it and I got all that to learning.
But obviously there's different severities of that that we've
seen where some are a bit tougher than others and but he
certainly wasn't up there. We were the ones that are
really, really, really getting their elbows out.
To show the pace of the Nissan at that point.
So if you recall, and it's brilliant, brilliant tactical
driving by Ricard at the start of that race, they're coming up
into Druids and he's parking it practically on.
Yeah, on the, on the, on the ape.
He's really so close behind him, he can't do anything about it.
To the point where Thompson goes around the outside of Anthony
and I think Anthony drops to about 7th and Rickard must be
thinking, oh, this is perfect, this is exactly how I wanted it.
But really just put his foot down past the two Renaults and
and clawed his way back up to Ricard and and Ricard must have
been thinking how on earth have you managed to get back here?
And yeah. And then obviously the the move
happens and and really takes the win.
But it's soon taken off him. I remember Nissan's little
protest. They put round 16, whatever it
was, I can't remember what round it was.
Winner and then they just put a big X on the side because used
to mark these put a little decal for every win on the cars and
they just put this big X through it yeah it's it's funny what
pressure of a title battle does to people and as Adam said a
very cool calm Swede normally. I think think 1 interesting
thing to note is we spoke a couple of weeks ago about the
Silverstone 2000 finale and how how Reed was maybe over the top
with his defensiveness, which cost him.
Whereas, you know, Ricard's defensiveness was pretty much
perfection, as you said about that move earlier in the race
where he managed to back Reed up.
So he'd obviously kept a cool head about what he needed to do.
But I suppose looking at it the other way as well, Anthony still
knew he had that gap to close. He had to win that race, yes.
So yeah, I suppose it was, it was always going to happen.
So it's, I guess the question is, should Ricard have just let
him go? Because of course, if that
contact had been a bit harder, he could have ended up in the
gravel barriers, whatever. Should Ricard maybe have just
let him go? But the still, it still doesn't
explain the reaction. I think that that reaction was
very, very surprising. What would have riled Ricard
even more is when they were coming up to the last lap or I
can't move is like the penultimate or the last lap.
They were coming up to lap Tiffany Dell in the third
Nissan. As Levi said, he was doing a
feature for Top Gear magazine, not Top Gear magazine, Top Gear,
the TV program at the time, where they were following the
third Nissan for the weekend with the cameras.
And he dutifully let's Anthony read straight past and then
parks it in front of Rickard coming through clearways.
So that would have been another moment of Rickard just going,
oh. Don't.
You know. And it has seen that coming as
well, seeing that Tiffy's up there.
He didn't know like, oh, I know what's coming here.
I know what's coming here. And then he did it like he did
that. Ravaglia.
He's he's an. Expert that it wasn't, he had
been that perfect teammate where I will be a parent in the ass
and I will do what I have to do and worry about the consequences
afterwards sort of scenario. Yeah, but I was going to say,
don't forget, the Tiff's mirror had been knocked out of
alignment because someone rear-ended him, didn't they,
man? Managed Managed to see Roy
Dello. Managed to see Reedy, didn't he?
Talking of Bravali, he's got to be featuring at some point in
this episode, doesn't he? I think he fell out with
everyone in that you. See this his own episode.
He thought out with himself, wouldn't he?
Yeah. I mean, I mean where do we want
to start? There were two main flashpoints
in 96. There was his his seemingly
ongoing rivalry with Paul Radisson and then of course as
as Adam touched on last race of 1996 where in attempting to
assist Peter Cox in victory didn't quite did go 3 clear ways
quite slowly on the last laugh in front of race leader Alan
Menu. I used to love Marie's naivety.
Oh, there's Roberto Rovalia. He's slowed down, isn't he?
As much of assisting Peter Cox, did he did he feel that there
was a bit of revenge to be paid out to Alan?
I mean, he probably thought, I've not fallen out with Alan
yet, That's time to do that. Yeah, he's still on my list.
I haven't take that one yet. We've got one last driver to
take off for the and I've got yeah.
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, that, that, that that
incident with with them, I see. Obviously he's trying to help
his teammate Peter Cox win the race, but it's so blatant, it's
so bad that I can't quite believe that you have the balls
to do it. It's just, I mean, you know,
it's crazy. And and Alan was rightly furious
in part for me. I can tell you we can do without
this Rabbi here. And then slammed his hand on the
bonnet of the of the BMW. Take that, Ravalia.
Dare I say it, a smarter shit house may have may have
potentially slowed over the course of the lab.
Yeah, so then just Parker, whereas Romania went to his
normal pace for the lab and then just slowed down to stop out.
Arctic. It just made it look so much
but. Then after after the race, oh I
had engine problems. But Ravalli didn't care, did he?
He didn't care. Didn't he do Did he do something
similar? Snet.
He had a big coming together with with.
Where was the rad? There's a few with Radicich,
wasn't it? Yes.
Yeah, there's something with. That was menu.
That was menu and Rivali, wasn't it?
Yes, it was. Yes, it was.
Yeah. Rivali, do you remember like you
took like the inside curb and that's it?
Yeah. And the suspension often that
was we've spoke about that before, but there's did that one
at SNET like he's just. It started with menu didn't it?
Menu was menu was out dragging him on the outside up the start
and finish straight. That's right and.
And basically and it was it was clearly.
Turned. Did not even.
Do what happened yeah, Menu just turned in on him and then after
that incident, after that impact, Rydell then went up the
inside and. That's right.
Sort of finished it off, yeah. But yeah, yeah, I'd kind of
forgotten. I was, I was about to say that
Menu and Rivali had a run in early run in the year, but of
course they there was that one and that definitely cost Ravali
a podium if not a win and he had actually driven brilliantly that
race. Yeah, because the car was going
around there, wasn't it? There's Winkle up.
Showed where he made it hard for himself, but yeah.
Obviously. So where did Rivali and Randa
sit show? Because they had a few coming
together, didn't they? But it it didn't it it peaked at
Juice the mat. Can you remember where it
peaked? I'm pretty sure it's Brian
Tatch. I can remember, that's right.
I can remember the footage of Radicich being interviewed and
saying you're going to have a word with him.
That's right. Or possibly, and now can we come
and then it's. It's been 2 now and it's every
time it's been you and me, you know?
Otherwise, OK, you are disappointed but you have
nothing to overdeck outside. I'm disappointed if you sit like
this or I'm disappointed because all you can see to overtake me
outside. But the best time I'm inside and
they go where I want. OK.
But but I couldn't remember where it started either.
I know that round one at Donington there was a battle
between Radissitch and both BMWs.
But it was Paul and Winkle Hock that came together.
That's right, yeah. At the end of that one, but I
can't remember where the Radicich Ravali thing started,
but it definitely peaked at Brands Hatch.
But there was the end. There was that incident where so
a brands, I think Radicich was on the outside.
Then Ravali just drove him out, just literally just drove him
off the track, didn't me. And and then you say, as you
say, he said, are you going to have a word with him?
Yeah, I might have a word with him.
Can we come? Yeah.
And so he's walking through the paddock and he catches up with
with Roberto and Paul. Paul's calmly explaining away.
Well, you know, Roberto, it's a couple of Times Now that the few
of us and Roberto just, he's in the face.
And he just tells him basically, I go where I want, OK?
It's your fault you were on the outside.
If I want to go there, I will go there and I go where I want.
OK. And looks at him in the most
disrespectful way. Paul's face is just completely
like, wow, what? Yeah.
And then he just walks away. And then very wonderful.
Thank you, Roberto, and goodbye. I felt so sorry for Paul that
that year, I mean, generally for his time in the BCC, but that
year and probably that moment, to be honest, you just wanted to
give him a hug, didn't you? Bless him, it was, you know, he
especially after how good 93 was you?
Yeah, you sort of expected so much more from the combination.
And then then that's what you ended up with.
And I think, I think this Rivalius bat was kind of the
cherry on the cake, really. There were a lot of there were a
lot of Duff Mondeaos through the era, but that 96 one was the
worst of the worst. And you would just be despondent
that that Ford should never have been fighting a bit of the beat
and he's managed it and then comes across.
I go where I want. OK, Well, as Matt said that
Darlington, the season opener, Paul and Vin Clark are fighting
with each other. I mean, yeah.
It should have been. Happening with 6th place, it's
like what? Yeah, it was a dog.
Yeah, yeah. Revalia, I think there's I've
got I've got a piece of of of info about Rivalia which I will
go to now whilst I'll let you guys carry on discussing and I
will go to it because it is very funny about how he just upset
everyone that season. He had to go at ride earlier, he
had to go a menu. Let me go and find it.
I've got it here now, on my, on my, on my.
Rivalia he was he was ex motorcycle, wasn't he?
Yes. A different braid took no shit.
An old school wasn't He was, he was.
He was around in the original World Championship here.
Tough as old booze man he he's like this was like this was this
was like a breeze for him to it was safe his life wasn't at risk
every time he got in the car like it would have been through
the motorcycle that he went through so.
Everyone else's lives might have been at risk.
Yeah. Yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah.
It's like it's normal to him.
It's like something like toughen yourselves up land, you know?
On his day though, he was bloody quick, wasn't it?
On his day, he will just mention that that's Neston Drive and I'm
sure I'm right. I'm just going to very quickly
check, but I'm sure that in 96 he was only one point behind
Winkle Hawk. Yeah, I think he was.
The thing is with him as well, he wasn't really consistent
because you didn't know whether there we could have a week,
absolute nightmare of a weekend where he's getting involved in
everything. But then there's another weekend
where he's really, really quick. But like you didn't know when
you were going to get the quick Rivalia.
Like you didn't, you didn't know you know Winkle, Ark and Soap.
You have consistency and and, but with him you didn't know
when you were going to. Get it?
Right, one point behind Winkle Hawk, and Winkle Hawk was one
point behind Leslie, so there's only two points away from being
4th in 96. Wow, I've got the quotes.
Do you want to hear them? Yes.
So at Snetterton after the incident we just talked about
after the race he asked why did Rydell need to wear a helmet
when he clearly doesn't have a brain.
Barked at Paul Radissick that he goes where he wants after he
punts him off at Brands Hatch and and then obviously with Alan
deliberately ignores blue flags. Blocks menu on the last lap to
try and help teammate cops win despite being a lap down.
I mean, imagine he might have actually finished fourth in the
championship had he not been Summers as pissing people off.
I think that's the best astride Alex Net.
And why did he need a helmet when he doesn't have a break?
As insults go, that's as good as it gets In it, it's.
Mad, isn't it? It's crazy.
I think what adds to the the lure of Roberto Ravallo and the
BTCC as well as that much, much like Lauren, yeah, but in very
different ways. He was one and done.
He was there for a year, pissed everyone off and probably left.
Yeah. Which I respect on a level.
On the subject of clashes at Franzen, let's head back to
1997. James Thompson and Jason Plato,
who you know we come to blows in other points in the future.
But that is just the first time that their paths really crossed,
wasn't it? In a rivalry way.
Yeah, I mean, they were, they were actually friends before
this incident and they were, they were friends after.
But yeah, yeah, this this weekend of brands, they wanted
to kill each other. Yeah, you can never be friends
on the track and I think I've experienced it where you can be
mates off it, but once you start racing against each other like
that, all that all goes. Disappears.
Yeah. Disappears.
I think what happened with with their rivalry in a way is
because they had such similar performing cars over a number of
years, then they were always near each other.
And yeah, this this one at brands in 97 was kind of the
catalyst for for what carried on.
But they were they were always within one or two grid positions
of each other and one or two race positions of each other
just because they had very similar performing cars.
And, and I think both of them, I guess there might have been an
element of wanting to be top Brit because there was, you
know, we did have did have a lot of international talent.
And maybe there was an element of trying to be top Brit because
some of the moves like this one brands, I haven't seen it for a
little while, but off off memory, it was it was a bad.
Move and yeah, and Jason just clobbers him, doesn't he?
Just dives. Dives at the inside of Thompson,
destroys the right hand side of the accord and basically has a
It gives James a puncture that puts him in the wall.
Which was it was never really. It's Jason for some reason was
playing really hardball that weekend because in race one he'd
had an incident with David Leslie where a similar move.
He, he, he sort of flies at the inside, clatters the side of the
Nissan. And then Leslie, there's a
further contact and it puts, it puts Jason into the wall that
that Nigel ended up in the year after that wall.
He wasn't not renamed it. And so that was in the yeah, so,
and then there's that image where they're in car with with
Jason in sat in the pit lane because he's got a damaged car.
And Tommy was running down the pit lane and he's running
towards Jason and he's pointing his finger and he's I'll have
you, I'll have you. And all you can do is in the
car. Is Jason going fuck off?
It's the sort of thing you loved as a tour, as a touring car fan
with these little spats and. Yeah, yeah, pantomime of it.
Yeah, yeah, pantomime villains. And the best thing is for those
of you who might have read Jason's book, but after that
race they were due to fly to a Grand Prix together.
Very awkwardly. Very awkward fly.
Brilliant. Brilliant, and if you haven't
read Jason's book, it won't spoil the story, but it's very,
very funny and I recommend it. Should we?
Pivot a bit and talk about teammates not getting on because
we've had a fair share of that. There's a few.
Going back to the beginning of the era, it's the lovely chat
we're mentioning earlier Will Hoy, who did have a couple of
run in Sydney in 1992 at Brand Hatch with Andy Rouse.
I can't work out to this day, no matter how many times I watch
it, who I think is to blame for that, I think it's to complete.
It's one of the rare occasions where it's genuinely 5050.
And we can't even blame Nigel on this one.
We're going to have to come down on a different side.
I'll. Give it a try, I'll give it a
try. It was.
It was the thing. If you look at the if you look
at the cold facts of it, it wasn't dirty driving is not how
Will drove. Dirty driving is not how Andy
drove. And clearly, especially being a
boss and an employee, if you like, they would not have ever
intended for that to happen. But it just really shouldn't
have. Like you look, you look at the
following year of Will and Bailey at Silverstone and that
was just, you know, a lock up car out of control bang and it's
happened. But the the Will and Andy one
really shouldn't have happened as far as I'm concerned.
I totally agree. It it was very unfortunate.
And the one thing that makes me laugh about that should it's and
Andy Rose's body language says rage and fury and he's just
stood there just like this. It doesn't look very rage and
fury to be honest, but yeah. I think obviously the the
potential needle for there to be with Hoi and Ralphs that year
was of course that Hoi wasn't exactly given preferential
treatment given that he was in a title battle with the engines
when it came to it, which probably irks Will a bit I would
imagine. Yeah, it probably hurt me as
well, and a slightly unusual decision, but you know, it's
yeah, I yeah, I don't know. It's it's an odd one, but I
guess when your teammates, the team boss, it's hard to argue.
Maybe. I don't know.
Yeah, it's a difficult situation.
Yeah, very difficult situation. You're right.
Yeah, it's it's very tough, especially like, yeah, it's,
it's just very odd. It's an unusual situation where
a team principal, A-Team manager, A-Team owner also raced
one of the cars. Doesn't really happen now, does
it? No, no.
No. I still think that had team
tactics or team orders played a bit differently, Will would have
been champion in 92. Yeah, reasonably easily.
If this incident at Branson didn't happen, Will would have
been champion, yes, yes, straight off.
Then. Then you have the finale where
Will really needed to win and Andy won and I know there are a
couple of Vauxhalls involved between them, Alan and Leslie if
I remember. Right.
Yes, that's right. But they they could have done
something that had got Hoy further up the order and then
used Rouse as a protection from Harvey Clelens open behind.
And you know, will there were a few opportunities, I think for
will to be championed that year. And maybe it stemmed from this
incident of brands, but there was a there was team tactics or
team orders that didn't happen that prevented him from winning
the. Championship that strange
incident at Alton as well where Will's lead in twice and the
engine suddenly cuts out. And I'm not suggesting that that
was a deliberate ploy by the way, but again, another
situation where had Hoy just had a straight run.
Yeah, yeah, but you're right, there was such such a little
points gap between Will and Tim at the end of the season that
yeah, he only a handful of points and suddenly Will's the
first dude, He's the first double champion.
He's, you know, he's he's won the 1st 2 championships of the
era. So and then it's probably very
different because he probably ends up with even a possibly
different career path. Yeah, it's funny, isn't it, how
all these things could snowball? Work out, Yeah, because it's his
career kind of 91 and 92 was as good as it got for Wilroy and he
wasn't it he. Stayed with Toyota too long.
He was too loyal to Toyota. 3 car wasn't bad, probably could
have won. Would have won a Silverstone if
it wasn't for for the incident which I'm sure we'll talk about
in a minute. But the 94 Toyotas were dog shit
so. Yeah, let's talk about that 90,
for instance, because I think it wasn't a great PR day.
So was it. No, because you know what
happened? It's the the worst thing
happened. They were 1-2, both were wiped
out. And what happens?
Their biggest rivals, Nissan, win 1/2.
Yeah, at the British Grand Prix with Marie Walker going the car
upside down is a Toyota. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was looking at the backbone that upside down.
As a team manager, as a manufacturer, things don't
really get much worse than that, do they?
No. No, like I mean how?
Do we how do we see that incident?
It's it's clumsy at best, it. Just wasn't on at all, like in
front of a big crowd TV. Like it's almost like you want
to just walk straight to your car and just go because you just
know you're going to get the sack, don't you?
Like that's just one of those moments.
You're just thinking, what have I done?
What have I done? There's a quote here from Julian
from an interview from a few years after and it's my worst
moment in the championship was when we were leading one to
myself and my teammate Will Hoy at the British Grand Prix and I
took him off. He rolled it, one of us would
have won and then in the end a Nissan won instead.
So it didn't go down well with Toyota.
I got a serious bollock in for that one.
Toyota sent me a formal written warning and said they wouldn't
pay my wages for the spa 24 hours a few weeks later.
So I said if I win the next BTCC round will you pay me for spa?
They agreed. So I put it on pole for the next
round of Knockhill and won it. Yeah, Bosch, there you go.
So that's that's, that's Julian looking back on it a few years
later. I think going back to teammates
along the lines of sort of making that impression as such,
there was someone who of course did make an immediate impression
with a string of pole positions at the beginning of his career,
which was the aforementioned Jason.
Because maybe the race results didn't quite come at the
beginning part of the season, but of course they were coming
to the end. And that did lead to a bit of a
teammate spat in 97 when Jason, I think, had been talking to the
press or just talking around the paddock about how he'd seen he
felt he was getting quicker than Alan, who'd already wrapped up
the championship by that point. I think Alan wrapped the
championship up at the same the very race that Plato took his
first win. Actually.
It's Nettleton. Yes.
Yeah, and then and then Jason was saying that he was getting
quicker than Alan and in, in Charlie Cox's words.
Oh, really? With with the I'll say
controversial, but it may not be too controversial.
I'll say the controversial move at Silverstone.
It was it was a hard pass, not one you'd probably expect on
your teammate who is fighting for second in the championship
against Beeler. And you think, OK, surely the
team are going to say, right, Alan, just stay behind Jason and
and support him. You know, he's helped you win
the championship all year. We want to get a 12.
So could you hold station? But yeah, it's brutal from Alan,
isn't it? It's he dives at the inside and
leaves, leaves him out to dry. He hangs him out to dry so that
not only did Jason lose first place, he loses second place.
So even if Jason had finished behind the land, that would have
been enough for him to secure 2nd place.
But because he'd left him out wide, Reedy got in, finished 2nd
and denied Renault a 1-2 in the championship.
Renault, we're probably not best pleased with that land for doing
that. But really, Yeah.
And as Matt said, Charlie Cox's commentary of oh really?
Well, that puts the answer that puts that to bed sort of thing.
And of course, that would have started at the beginning of the
year because Alan would never have expected his rookie
teammate to come in, take double pole at the first meeting, pole
again at Silverstone. You know, Alan would have
thought that probably gone into 97 thinking the championship was
basically going to be his. All he had to do was, yeah, keep
it on the island and keep going. The championship was his.
And then so at the very start of the year, when his rookie
teammate is coming in and banging it on pole after pole
after pole, that must have set his head a little bit.
Obviously that would have changed as the season went on
was Alan went on that, you know, the one almost everywhere.
But yeah, then by the end of the season it had come back to haunt
him again, I suppose. So what had happened at the
start of that season is that JP had been out testing somewhere
with his engineer and I think they basically worked out that
hard attire that the Michelin teams are providing.
The were providing the teams. There was one specific hard
attire that was actually quicker than the soft.
So they didn't tell anyone this and JP took the first 3 pole
positions because of this, because they were using this
theoretically slow attire but ended up being quicker.
And in the fourth race, that's what happened is that they found
out and Alan then used the same tires.
So there's a little bit of back story to that, which is which I
always found quite intriguing. Yeah.
So Jason would have just signed a new deal with Renault as well
after successful first year. So he probably thought, yeah,
I'm the, I'm the danglers for a bit.
But he soon had his lesson. He soon had his wings clipped,
didn't he? He soon had his wings clipped.
So. And Alan was quite happy to
resolve disagreements at on on on track at Silverstone in
season finales, wasn't he? Yeah, and it would be in 98 that
Alan would also come to blows as someone at Silverstone, this
time at the Abbey hair film with John Cleland.
It's quite a forceful move that he bought on it, wasn't it?
I mean, John was was dearly facing down the Grand Prix track
the wrong way. Alan Silverstone finale was the
final showing of my good friend Stroppy Alan that reared his
head a few times. In 98, Alan had already signed
for Ford. In 99, he knew it's time that
Williams was coming to an end. The car was falling in
competitiveness from the start of the year and he just got
extremely frustrated he'd had a falling out with.
So Renault gave Tommy Rushdad 1/3 a third works Laguna for
that finale because he won the the Autosport Cup for privateers
at Alton Park in a Laguna Rushdad at some point past Alan.
Alan had us never on the scene. The script, no, was never the
script. Alan had a bit of a Strop about
that. Alan and Will Hoy had a bit of a
set to at one point, which which made me laugh at the time
because I remember Charlie Cox in Alan's looking at the car
he's going to be driving next year and he's going to hope it
that shell because wreck. And of course, ironically, Will
would have ended up in Allen's Reno obviously wouldn't didn't
do that at the time. But yeah.
And then the final the final straw was he was stuck behind
John Cleland and that enough and just give him the two word at
the backside through Abby. And as you say, John was punted
well down the fairway and Alan carried on until he had a bit of
a run in with Derek Warwick, which doesn't get picked up on
the on the commentary literally 500 meters later.
Because honestly, if you if you watch that back now, you will
see it in the background. You'll see it on the side of
that happening and and yeah, so get on to the season review and
watch it because it's funny. And and they square up around
the back of the, of the, of the, of the paddock.
So it is another, another one. And they had, they had to be
pulled apart by the team personnel.
So that shows what they're arguing was like.
That was all caught on Clellons and car camera, wasn't it?
It was. The car was angled perfectly at
the garage and it just showed it all in front of them.
Barry Hinchcliff must have thought he'd struck gold when
he. Saw that.
So gentlemen, before we go, I'll go by one by one round you now.
Favorite rivalry of a Super Touring era.
I'll start with you, producer Matt.
I mean, for, for me, it has to be the one that just seemed to
be the the most unfair in many ways, which was the Rivalia
Radisich 1. Like, you know, as we said
earlier, they should never really have been anywhere near
each other. You've got Rivalia who we said
was two points away from being 4th in the championship.
Radisich was probably 10 places behind that.
They should never really have been near each other, but they
always managed to find each other.
And poor old Paul always seemed to come off worse and you just
wanted to put your arm around him.
Don't worry. Let's go.
Let's go for a drink. Don't worry.
So firmly not in the Roberta of Alia fan club then.
I didn't quite say that, but for someone who was only in it for a
year and a bit, he did have his, he did have a spare show run
insurance, I think, yeah. Adam coming to you, what's your
favorite rivalry? For me within this era, and
obviously it wasn't, it didn't really go on for any length of
time, but I can't not, can't stop thinking about the the
Cleland Sopa, Silverstone because like it doesn't get like
hatred doesn't get him any worse than that, does it?
At that time, you know, with the pressures that was there,
everything on the line, everything was kicking off.
We were, it was unlucky, lucky, I'm unlucky.
The fact that it ended up there because like, like Matt said
earlier, they've got a few months to think about the court
case and and sort of, you know, basically start talking to each
other again. They're both not won the
championship. Like let's just agree to
disagree and then we'll just crack on again.
But it would almost would have been nice that have happened
sort of during the season. So it could have continued.
But I think in terms of an absolute stand out moment that
we are still talking about to this day, as we've already
covered on the on the pod is that for me.
Yeah, certainly feels like one of the more iconic ones, even it
didn't really root into a rivalry almost.
No, we sort of what he did behind the scenes that we all
didn't really hear much about until these, you know, these
recent times really. But in terms of seeing that, I
mean, that was proper lashing out.
You know, you look at what Steve did to to to check on that.
That was as tough as rivalry gets to clearly have one thing
and one thing in his mind and that was to take him clean out
going into that right-hander. Yeah, he can't.
I can't not avoid that one, really.
And lastly, coming to you out, what's your favorite rivalry of
the year? So one we've not mentioned this
evening, it wasn't really a rivalry but there was a one off
incident. But I want to ask a question
that maybe some of the listeners might be able to to answer.
And Silverstone 97 and Bin Cliff and David Leslie have a bit of a
set to going through the island chicane and both end up heavily
hitting the, the, the the Armco and getting damaged.
And you hear the iconic David Leslie, Bin Cliff's done it
again and the cars fucked. And I'm always wondering what's
the other incident? Is David referring to just Bin
Cliff having a few incidents generally, as in he's had
another incident and and the cars or was there an incident in
96? Because this was early in 97.
Was there an incident in 96? That's the between those two
that I can't think of. I can't think of one.
Yeah, but so if anyone wants to shine any light on that, then
please, please do so. But As for my favorite rivalry
in the Super Touring era, I think I've got to go with menu
and Cleland 2 drivers I liked, but I like I both, I like them
very, very much both. So seeing them square up in the
in the the back of the garage is at Silverstone, it's quite
weird. But it was just funny.
It's just really funny. Yeah, obviously there's a few.
Anthony Reed's annoyed everyone, didn't he?
Another one we didn't really touch on was really in menu.
It's a Brands Hatch in 97 where live on telly all our menu is
saying the guy is crazy. You should think of it more live
on TV to Steve Ryder without realizing that Anthony Reed is
stood right behind him just looking like this, which I
thought was quite funny. But yeah, any any into the end.
Any rivalry that involved John Cleland really, because he
always came out with some pretty good one liners.
But if anyone has any info on that Bing Cliff and David Leslie
incident then what he's referring to then please let us
know. And if you do have any other
questions for the Potter subject that we might want us to touch
on in the future, such as today's discussion on rivalries.
And also if you do have an answer to Alex's query about
David Leslie referring to Bing Cliff, again, e-mail as always,
pod at 1990s btcc.com. In the meantime, we'll see you
next week. Goodbye.