Stories from Super Touring. Hello, and welcome to a brand
new series of stories from Super Touring.
And we're kicking off Series 7 with an absolute legend of
touring car racing man whose name is synonymous with speed,
precision and a little bit of controversy along the way.
From his iconic battles in the BTCC to his unforgettable
showdowns across Europe, Japan and beyond, our guest today has
done it all. He's race for the biggest
manufacturers, gone wheel to wheel with the very best, and
left a mark on motorsport that still gets us fans talking
decades later. It's Steve Sopa.
Steve, welcome to Stories from Super Touring.
Thank you for opening Series 7 for us.
How are you? Yeah, I'm good.
Good evening to you. So Steve, let's start at the
very beginning. How did you first get into
motorsport? What was it that sparked that
first passion for racing for you?
I think it was my father probably as a kid I was dragged
to race meetings. He did a bit of rallying and
sprints and the odd race but very club level sort of
standards. But as at 8910 year old, I was
pulled off to Crystal Palace and Silverstone, which I quite
enjoy. When I say pulled off, it sounds
as though I was dragged there against my will.
I certainly wasn't I enjoyed, but that was it was bred into
me, I suppose, educated into me. He was a car fanatic, had all
sorts of nice cars, Jaguars and Lotus, Cortinas and Lotus.
He lands. So from an early, early part of
my life, it was, it was their motorsport.
He actually let me start racing or competing, not racing at
about an age of 13. I was, we he were members of the
Harold Carr Club and we used to turn up and do altar tests and
sort of what are they called slaloms between poles against
the stopwatch and stuff. And I used to use his race
licence to do that and the how they all sort of just turned a
blind eye and sort of just let me get on with it at 1314 years
of age. So that that was the
introduction, I suppose. Well, it was always drilled into
me by him that, you know, just do it as a bit of fun.
You know, you're not going to be able to make a living at it.
You're not going to become a professional.
Just enjoy yourself. And that was drummed into me
from a fairly early age, which probably made me even more
determined. When your dad's telling you
that, then you try and do the opposite.
It was very progressive over a number of years.
First of all, I started in special saloon cars and couldn't
really afford to do what everyone else was doing
regarding what they were spending on their engines.
And so I went from sort of trying to do that with Hillman
Imps and Minis and I decided to do 1 mate championships and then
I picked one mate championships with first they had to be a new
championship that just started and secondly I wanted a prize at
the end of the championship if I could win.
So I picked championships. Then at the time you, if I won
the Mini championship, you won a new 1275 GT Mini and the same
with the Fiesta championship, you won a new Fiesta, whatever
it was at the time, and then the Metro and suddenly I realised I
could win these championships and by winning cars that would
pay for my next year's motor racing and all.
I would never look at entering the Renault 5 Championship
because that had been running for years and it took you ages
to find all the tweaks that everyone found over the years.
But if you entered a new championship, then I've I felt I
was smarter than most of the others that I was competing
against and I could get my car more competitive than they could
in a brand new championship quicker than they could.
And that seemed to work with the Minis, the Fiesta and then the
Metro off. The back of that then with
winning the Metro in Challenge in 1981, you then moved into
what was then the British Salim Car Championship and then in
1983 you're then signed by Tom Walkinshaw and you have a
brilliant year and win the title.
Before we get into perhaps what happened off track after you won
the title. So how was that in terms of, as
you say, you know, you've been in these one mate series, the
new series to try and sort of, you know, level out the
experience and you choose your ability of chewing a car and
getting on pace and your driving style.
How do you think you were able to so quickly find success in
the British Touring Car Championship so quickly against
teams that had a probably a lot more experience in finding those
little tweaks than than you would have done at that point?
Motor racing is back then was always been in the right place
at the right time and then bits of luck and putting things
together and two things happened back in the 81.
First of all, I found a sponsor that was Hepalite Glacium,
Hepalite Pistons and, and the first year in Minis I think or
metros, I got £500. And the second year in Group one
in again with metro in 82, I got 25,000.
And then eventually the third year with the Rover business
that I had their whole budget. Now that sponsor was Austin
Rover's sponsor, but they became a bit disillusioned with Austin
Rover. And bear in mind at this time I
was buying and selling cars. So basically I'm a motor dealer.
So if there's a deal out there, I was going to do my utmost to
make sure I could get the deal and the, the final year, which I
think was 120,000, I, I could steer that money wherever I
wanted it to go. And we did look at running the
BMW and then eventually we went back to Austin Rover and we felt
we were, I suppose better off knowing more what was happening
to go with Austin Rover with a Rover vertet.
So the background of all of that was starting off with £500, then
25,000 and 120,000. That was being in the right
place and talking to the right people in the right time,
understanding they were getting a little bit disillusioned and
they because I was successful, they were prepared to put their
money behind me. That was the only sponsor I ever
really landed in my whole career, but it did springboard
me into group, Group A, racing, etcetera.
Also, Austin Rover wanted to promote a driver that won the
Metro Championship. So they were quite happy at the
end of 81 to give me a little tiny bit of help to go group
Group 1 racing. So again, it was being in the
right place within the championship at the right time
and then sticking my ears to the ground and trying to understand
what Austin Rover wanted and what I wanted and trying to pull
P SAT together. So you when we got to the drive,
I was never employed by Tom walking Shaw.
I was employed by Austin Rover, Tom walking Shaw and I didn't
really get on. He he inherited me and I didn't
understand politics back then. I was this sort of, you know,
arrogant young racing driver that thought he couldn't, you
know, do anything. And of course that clashed with
the the sort of internal politics or TWR, but I was
employed by Ossin and Roble and they were very good to me.
So that's the background of of that getting making the car
work. I'd driven rear wheel drive
cars. I'd driven an X1 Niner mid
engine thing and I drew I'd race special saloon escorts and the
Ilbanemps as well as front door. So it didn't seem, it seemed
relatively easy when once I got in that Rover, it nothing seemed
to be, you know, a problem. It all came relatively easy.
And I always used to say to friends and the media, I don't
think I'm that good. But if I'm in the lead making
mistake after mistake at this corner, on that corner, but I
look in my mirror and I'm drawing away from everyone, I
might not be that good, but the rest are useless.
And that's still my, my opinion and my thinking even today, You
know, I, I'm sure back then and even currently there's far more
talent sitting in the grandstand which haven't been given an
opportunity than there is on the race track.
That's my that's my my view and my opinion.
It's an interesting view of that.
I mean that that Rover, the, the Vitas, the absolute beasts were
there. I mean, what were they like to
drive? Horrible.
Oh, really? OK, horrible.
OK, heavy, heavy, not you know, it was never designed to be a
race car and at the day I was never a fan of the Austin Rover,
the moist product. You know, I I thought the road
cars were pretty dire, let alone a racing Rover the test.
But walking shore TWR made it do a job and it was competitive in
BTC. It was competitive in Europe but
it wasn't and you know, it went round a race track and it won
races but it wasn't a nice thing to drive at all.
OK. So you obviously did win the
title on the track. It's in 1983 with that car.
However, I believe it was about six months after it was taken
from you due to irregularities. I mean, what, what?
What was all that about? Well, basically Tom used to
irritate everybody, especially the sort of scrutineers and the
RAC and he, Frank Sittner drove for him and he fired Frank
Sittner. So Frank Sittner had a a grudge
to bear. And as the year went on, Frank
Sittner and the RAC kept trying to find things that were wrong
with the Rover. And I'm sure there probably were
things wrong with the Rover, but they couldn't make anything
stick. And then finally at the end of
the season, they together with the RACI think with a protest
from Frank Sitner, if I'm right, they stripped and the my engine
down and they couldn't find anything wrong with it apart
from a tappet. And the Rover engines back then
ran hydraulic tappets and purely to make it more serviceable,
they had modified that hydraulic tappet and they put a Volvo tap
it in there, which was adjustable because that wasn't
legal, didn't give you any more performance.
It just made it easier to service and maintain.
But it wasn't to the rule book. And eventually they, they went
after Tom and they got him on that.
And six months later I lost the the championship, which at the
time I couldn't care less about. But years later, you, you look
back and think that would have been nice to actually have that
that on the in the history books at the time, it wasn't forward.
OK, Interesting. Because others, other drivers
we've spoken to in the past, I know we've spoken to Anthony
Reed about this, about him possibly losing out on a title
because it dropped scores and it meant it meant everything to him
then, but now it doesn't. So it's interesting that with
you it's the reverse. Yeah, cheers.
Moving a bit further into the 80s now then and you joined
Eggenberger? In.
Ford in 1986 set you up to drive some pretty iconic cars,
including the, the Cosworth. And then also, you know, you
were racing really at the forefront of touring car racing
globally at that point in, in DTM World Touring Cars
championship in, in 87 for the Sony season of its first first
iteration and then in in European touring cars for three
years with them as well. How how did that deal come about
and how was it sort of getting to drive all of these world
famous circuits sort of seemingly we can leak out?
Well, the the the deal came about quite quite.
What's the word? Unusual, I suppose, because in
83 with the Rover, BMW sent hand stock over to England to do some
BTC races in a in a BMW635 and I used to beat him.
I can't remember how many times he beat me or how many times I
beat him, but I think I beat him more times than he beat me.
And he obviously went back to BMW Germany, Munich, BMW
Motorsport, and probably they were asking him why he didn't
win. And he was obviously saying that
this guy, Steve Sopa is a bit special and he's really good on
it. So he boosted my profile and at
the end of 83 BMW offered me a very, very nice contract to join
them at the end for the 84 season and rightly wrongly, I
told Austin Rover this and they convinced me to stay for the 84
and 85 seasons. They matched everything BMW
offered me financially and they offered me a longer contract.
When the those next two years spanned out with the Rover in
Europe, I was not a happy person there.
I was not. I was still learning
politically, politics, but I wasn't allowed to do or drive as
I wanted. I was controlled by the TWR team
and group. So at the end of 85 I as soon as
I could leave, my contract was up.
I terminated it and gave them notice that I wouldn't be
staying on for 86 and I started talks again with BMW which
started to look very positive. And then round about December it
all went quiet. There was no communication at
all. And although I knew it was
Christmas, if you're looking for your job and your next season,
you, you start panicking the, the, they weren't answering the
phone. They weren't answering it.
You know, I think it was faxes back then and stuff like that.
And round about that time Ford Germany came on the phone and
basically he said, would I be interested in driving for them
with the Sierra Cosworth for 87 and 88?
But for the 86 season it was the Ford Merco, which wasn't a great
car. So I said, well, Pavani, you
give me a three-year contract. So I'm around for the Cosworth,
yes. And and that's how I ended up at
Ford. Ford was great.
It was a great. The guy that ran it at the time
was a good guy. It was Eggenberger was tricky,
but he built a fantastic car. The car was pretty bulletproof.
It very rarely went wrong, engine or anything else.
And we did a world world championship that, you know, we
travelled around the world, Australia, Japan, New Zealand,
everywhere. So it was all of a sudden, I
mean at the time I didn't appreciate it, but you know,
years on you look back and it was great learning the circuits.
You just get on with it and you do it.
There wasn't the data that you couldn't, you know, there was no
Sims or data that I couldn't look at my team mates what they
were doing. I just had to do it the hard way
and get to the circuit early, walk around it, get a rink car,
you know, try and sneak onto the circuit before the weekend had
started and and just get on with it, which luckily I managed to
do. You intertwined that well
fantastic journey all over the world effectively with sporadic
BTCC appearances. Certainly one that sticks in in
the memory is Brands Hatch in 1988 where you had that famous
battle with another excellent car builder in Andy Rouse and
that that is still famous to this day.
I mean, that was a great battle that you and Andy had in, in
what were, I mean, people didn't know this, but what were quite
different Sierras? Yeah.
I mean, the Eggenberger car was a long distance.
You know, all our ETC and world races that we had done in 87 and
88 were all three hours, 24 hours.
They were all long endurance races.
And the, the interesting thing is Ford put AAI don't know what
you would call it, a promotional thing out there and said anybody
who wins the race with a Ford, there's a £5000 bonus.
So, you know, I went Ching Ching and I had to then persuade
Egenberger to come over to England.
I didn't tell Egenberger there was any, any prize money because
it was paid to the driver, not to the team.
So I managed to persuade him and for Germany, let's do 3 or 4U KB
TC races. And they agreed.
And but I was, I was with, you know, I think the first race I
did, I think my engine had already done 3, three races, 3
long distance races. And Egenberger wouldn't turn the
boost up because we'd run higher boost to begin with in the
beginning of the season. And he had just, you know, half
the life of his engines. And in Europe or the the World
Series, we didn't need any more boost because we were winning
with what we we had. But the the other interesting
thing behind that story, obviously I wanted to do it and
I convinced him to come over. But Andy Rouse had touted for
that deal. So that World Touring Car
Championship that for Germany were painful.
He tended for it and he hadn't got it and he felt that what
he'd done in England, he should have got it.
So there was a lot of sort of under undercurrent.
I wouldn't say bitterness, but a bit, a bit of needle.
Yeah. Envy, envious or jealousy.
I don't think Andy, I know Andy quite well.
I don't think Andy was bitter at all.
But he was definitely out to prove a point.
Yeah, we turn up. This is the racing driver book
of excuses you got to realise. So we turn up with a two or
three race old long distance engine and try and compete with
Andy that's just built himself the most powerful Sierra
Cosworth engine that he's ever built to make sure that he wins.
And it was a little bit like that.
I think we did 4 races in England and I think I only won
one of them to my memory. I think he won three.
I won the one at Pruxton and then the the other two or three
he won. So, but there's always, there's
always something going on in the background that not everybody
knows, if that makes sense. Then for 1989, you move to BMW.
So after obviously nearly moving there a couple of times, you
make that move and initially with the Zaxby's team, with your
main role being in in Germany in the DTM where you won races.
How was that that year in sort of adjusting to BMW in a
different, different car to the to the sea era?
Well, again, it it sounds like you know BMW head 100 me away
from Ford. That's not how it happens.
So at the end of 88 my German boss said look I've I've lost
all my budget for next year. I've only got enough money to
run 2 cars in DTM and I've got to run MY2 German drivers.
Klaus needs space and Klaus Ludz bit.
I want to keep you, but I don't have any money.
If I if I find more budget to run a third car and a third
team, then sure, you're you're my priority.
But right now, if you get offered anything, take it.
So again, I immediately started communicating again with BMW.
The the boss of BMW motorsport had just changed and it was a
new guy called Carla Hines cabfill.
So he joined and within a week of him sitting in his office
taking over BMW Mother Sport, I rang him and cut a Long story
short. He didn't know who I was but the
people around him did and I was able to join there.
But I wanted to go to Snitzer and obviously all I was offered
was at the time was Zak Speed and the joining BMW was very
easy. Joining another German company
was a doddle. I, I was little bit frustrated
with Zac Speed because it didn't, it didn't live up to my
expectations or what I thought it should do.
So I was always frustrated and quite demanding on them.
But you know, I want to cut the races in DTM to be fair to them.
And Eric Sukowski and the team manager at the time, Gunter
Waldo, were were very accommodating.
But it just at the time it wasn't a snitch.
So it wasn't the same maternity as a snitcher team.
You spent one year with Zach Speed and as you were saying you
were, you were trying to get into Schnitzer, but you ended up
for a couple of years with Begatsi.
Similar, I mean obviously still BMW, but a similar vibe or a
different vibe to Zach Speed there.
And the end of 89 and I said to BMW, look, I, I, I, I want to
go, I have to go to Snitzer. And they said, look, we got 4
drivers that want to go to Snitzer and only two cars.
And actually if you want to go, we got 5 drivers and only two
cars. So that's not going to happen.
They said, you know what about Linda?
I said no, no, no, there's no way I want to go to Linda.
And they said I don't want to stay at Zach Speed.
And then my current new boss at the time, obviously it wasn't,
you know, I've been with there over a year.
He said what what about Bugatti? And I'd met Gabrielle Raffinelli
when we were doing the World Touring Car Championship.
He was running BMWs. He was a factory driver back
then, not driver team back then. And that's when I met him and we
got on like a house on fire. And he glossed that status.
And he, when my boss said to me, what about Begatsi?
He wasn't a factory team. And I said, yeah, I'll drive for
them because I just knew them in mentality.
Or Raffanelli. No, it wasn't a snitzer.
It was a completely different team outlook.
The way they went racing was completely different to
Schnitzer, but it was a good team that would give you
everything that you required without any sort of dramas along
the way. So I they ended up making
Bugatti another factory team. And I I joined Bugatti in 1990.
Yeah. Yeah.
And you did. If you did, you did DTM but also
sporadically did a couple of BTCC rounds in the what was to
become the two litre formula. The the, the eventually become
the Super towing formula. Those cars must have been very
different to the DTN cars and the Cosworths and the RS5
hundreds that you've been used to driving.
They they were, but it, you know, after a lap, it's a racing
car and you just drive it as you know, you try and drive it as
quickly as you can with the amount of grip and everything
you've got. So I never really had to
concentrate. Oh, this is this is a DTM car.
This is a BTC car. This has more a bit more error
than this. It, it was all relatively easy.
It didn't seem to cause me any problems at all.
Jumping from one to the other. Yeah.
Yeah, it's, it brings me on to another point actually is that
you obviously did a lot of these part seasons, particularly in
Britain where you would come over and do a couple of races
and then either Christmas in or Rivalia would come and and and
and take your seat. Did you have any say at all
about which championships you wanted a racing or was it very
much BMW want you to do this championship and that's where
you're going to be and that's your focus?
BM back in the 198919919293 I had no say in it.
They said you're doing DTM and then I had to then start making
waves and negotiating if I could have on when races didn't clash
with my DTM programme, could I drive, Would they allow me to
drive for, you know, the pro drive team or whichever team it
was? And they they were quite
comfortable at letting me do that.
So, and I think back then I was paid a salary per race.
So the more races I did the more money I earned.
So it, it sort of worked and and I was quite, I quite enjoyed
back in the early 90s doing 345 races in in England.
I didn't want to do a complete championship of BTCI, enjoyed
DTM too much, but I was quite happy on my weekends off to turn
up in in England and driver Pro Drive or whoever.
Yeah, in, in, in 92. Then you, you ended up driving
the new BMW 318 and that at the start of the year was it was
quite an uncompetitive car. But when we, when we had Tim on
the show, he said that you guys had solved the issue, something
to do with the flexing suspension arm that the pro
drive guys hadn't been able to fix.
And basically that turned that car into an absolute rocket.
And there were some particularly wonderful drives, I thought from
you in 92 where you got caught up in, invariably you seem to
get caught up in, in someone else's accident and ended up
fighting your way through the field that year.
Fond memories of of some battles in 92.
Yes, don't quite go along with Tim's analysis.
The the the car was we were allowed to run that car by BMW
Germany's. So we started to develop it a
year earlier than Germany and we were given help from Germany
from they would send engineers over, they would guide VLR in
certain areas. And the car, the car just got
better and better as we understood it more and more.
So the, the, the car at the beginning wasn't a great race
car. And once once we got the right
engine in it and we'd sorted a few things internally and with a
bit of BMW Motorsports help, then the car got better and
better and better. And you have to also remember
that in that year we had ABS and nobody else had ABS.
So the, that was a huge advantage back then, especially
with a sort of rear wheel drive car.
So all things put together, the car, the car did sort of turn a
corner and midway through the season, but I don't remember any
sort of flexing, steering on. I don't know where that's come
from. And I, I did a lot more work
than Tim did. But I'm not saying I'm right and
he's wrong. I'm not normally wrong.
We can't really talk about 1992 without bringing up that
dramatic Silverstone finale from inside the car.
What was going through your mind in those final laps and how did
you feel about the fallout that came afterwards?
I think the the problem is that weekend there was no other modus
war, so there was no Formula One, there was no ward rally and
there was no other big British events.
So after the the incident, Autosport Motoring News and
every other Tom, Dick and Harry, all they could write about was
this incident. And I, you know, I was in, I was
employed to help team win that championship, but not at the
cost of eliminating John Glenn. And it was never, ever
suggested, you know, Tim needs to win at all costs.
It wasn't the situation if I could go there and spoil John's
race weekend just by being there and help team win that.
That was my job. Unfortunately, the the late
David Leslie, who I respected a lot as a driver, he was driving
a Vauxhall and he he wiped me out on the first lap.
Maybe, maybe I was being a little bit foolish with him.
I should have known better that he wouldn't stand for some of my
that the move that I was trying to pull on him.
But he took no prisoners. And next thing I know I was
facing a wrong way. And then Rob grab it comes round
and drives into the back of me. So I'm already programmed that a
Vauxhall has eliminated me, which isn't great.
I then, I then got from the back of the grid back up to John and
John was in front of Tim and Tim was behind John and I, what does
I still think one of my best moves I managed to, I think it
was sort of coming out of Abby and maybe down under bridge.
I, I did a lovely move and I, I managed to slow John up so that
Tim went past John and myself at the time and got into a
championship position. So I thought, yeah, that's good,
well done. I was quite happy with myself 2
two corners later, John then carries a move out on me that if
I hadn't have been there he would have apart from falling,
the car would have fallen over but he also wouldn't have made
the corner. So that's I'm now thinking hang
on a minute, this is this is sort of Vauxhall.
Vauxhall taking the Mick. What's going on now, to be fair
to John, in that sort of two wheels stump that he pulled, he
lost his driver's door mirror. So he's now got no door mirror
on his right side and he believes I'm gone.
He believes I'm off the track, sailing across the grass.
So I was off the track and on the grass but I was facing the
right way. So I, I came back at him
believing he knew I was still around.
Hindsight, you know, years later, even a few weeks later, I
realised it. He didn't know I was there and
he turned in with an uncompromised line, believing I
wasn't there in. At the same time, I've turned in
with no compromise, being a little bit frustrated of what
he's just done and that the two moves ended in us both going off
the track. If I'd wanted to eliminate
tom-tom, if I wanted to eliminate John rather, I could
have done it and I could have still probably finished on the
podium or in the top three or four.
I'd certainly wasn't there to take John off and myself off.
So it wasn't an intentional move.
If if you want to point the blame at someone more than I'm
probably more to blame than John, but John did his paid his
share of the the incident if that makes sense.
Yeah, and that that ended up in a in, in a, in a battle in the
court, which John has told us effectively was stopped because
you 2 ended up chatting on the phone and going in and saying we
were both guilty. They didn't want to take
anyone's life. You didn't want any either of
you to to lose their licence and then effectively your
livelihood. So in the end it all it all sort
of worked out. Yeah.
I mean, six months have gone by and I had a lawyer and John had
a lawyer and I had witnesses and he had witnesses and they, I had
all the video evidence of that race.
And he he got quite vocal when I passed him the first time and
was he was wired up and was calling me names and stuff in
the video in the sort of in the in car camera stuff.
So I had all of that and all of a sudden before this tribunal,
they say, they suddenly said that no video evidence will be
allowed. And so I thought this is this is
going, this sounds like they're going for me because I don't
even remember. You sort of, you know, Murray,
Walker says. And John Sissy's going, he's
giving me the finger and, and calling me names and, you know,
Murray says. He's going for a first or
something like that. Yeah.
So anyway, the night before the tribunal, the phone rings and
it's John. And he says to me, listen, he
said, he said, I've been told that they want to make an
example out of one of us. And he said, what worries me, if
they don't get you, they get it. They might get me.
And he says I still think you're to blame, But he said I don't
want to take the chance. He said if we go in as friends
and just say it's a racing accident, He said, I've been
told they can't do anything. So I said, OK, I'm fine with
that. But you say it first.
You know, as much as I know you, I'm not saying I trust you.
I'm not going to go in and say, you know, it was a racing
accident and I've got no problem.
And then you'd come in with the gun and build a knife and stab
me in the back later. Anyway, he, he did that.
To be fair, he went in and said all of that.
And I, I said my bit was exactly the same.
And they were very, very irritated that we walked out,
both of us, with no punishment. But there was a lot of shit
going on back then against me, I don't think against John, but
you know, I, I, there was a few people that wanted to make life
difficult for me and that a couple of those were in that REC
tribunal. Producer Matt's just put in our
chat that it was actually 33 years ago, just just gone on
Saturday. Really.
Yeah, it's and it is still one of the most talked about
incidents in the history of the British Touring Car
Championship. Does that annoy you or is that
something that you you've appreciated the, the sort of the
not the notoriety, but the, the, the, the, the, the, the coverage
that that incident has given you?
Or is it something you wish would just go away now?
And I know we're just as guilty talking about it here ourselves,
but. No, it's, it's I wish I could
have had another incident that was better than that one that,
you know, had that amount of publicity.
Does it worry me? No, not really.
I do car club talks. I don't do many.
I do a couple of year and it always comes up at a car, you
know, in any car club it you know, it doesn't go very long
before that's that, that there's a question about that.
So it doesn't worry me. I think it worried me in the
first six months because I was perceived as the bad guy.
Years later, I think there's a bit more of a, it's a bit more
averaged out who's the bad guy and who's it is good guy And
John, you know, John and I can speak for six months, but we're,
we're good mates now. Nothing has, you know, I talked
to him. I, I text him on his birthday,
he text me on my birthday. We talk a couple of times a
year. Everything is really not a
problem. But to be fair to John, I didn't
go there to deliberately wipe him out so he couldn't win the
championship. There was, you know, there was a
lot of other mess going on. If you look at Harvey, it did
look as though you wiped Will Hoy out.
You know, I even that I don't think was deliberate by Tim.
I just think that was another circumstances and Will was on
the wrong. End of it going into 1993 now
and you finally got your move to SITSA BMW and it was a full BCCC
season as well in that works. Carl, how did that move to get
addition it to come about? BMW Motorsport Germany fell out
with RTL or whoever it was that was running DTM at the time.
They, they, they deemed to agree with some new regulations.
And eventually my boss got that hump and said, right, we're not
doing it. So he very quickly turned
around. He had all these teams and
drivers and, and obviously he wanted to carry on in
motorsport. He just didn't, wasn't prepared
to carry on in a championship that he didn't agree with the
new regulations. So all of a sudden we were told,
right, you're not doing DTM. You 2 are going to Italy, you 2
are going to England. Snitzers running 2 cards in BTC,
You're you're the drivers. And that's how it was.
There was no, no, what would you like to do?
Where would you like to go? What about doing England?
It was literally we were on course to do DTM and overnight
it was changed. So I was now in back in England
doing a a full season, which at the time everyone said it was
for me, it was my championship. And I should, you know, if we
had the car, I was going to win it.
And this is even BMW Germany saying that.
Unfortunately no one had told Winkerholk that he, you know, to
be fair to Joe, he he he beat me fair and square.
I think I had one more failure than he did.
Yeah, I think he had one accident.
I had one accident. I also had a bit of suspension
break at Autumn Park. But you know, on his day, Joe
Smokey, Joe Winkler is very, very difficult to beat.
And bear in mind the team is German.
He's German and this is my first real first full season with
Schnitzer. So there was a little bit of
tilt towards Joe, but I, I was given the same equipment, the
same, you know, he, he didn't have anything better than I did.
He just was blooming difficult to beat.
And very annoyingly, he he did. He beat me.
That 93 championship was your only full season in the
championship during that 90s era with the, with the Super Tours,
with the two litres again, is that something that you look
back on and, and is it a regret that you didn't win it or is is?
I mean, back then I was only interested in being employed.
Yeah. So whatever I had to do to stay
employed. And I had a I've had, and
certainly back then I was having a privileged career being paid
to race cars all over the world. So the, the fact that the we
we'd gone there and I hadn't won it again, it was imitating.
But you know, I got over it pretty quick.
It's in the eyes of BMW. It didn't do me any harm.
The fact that Joey beat me. My boss gave me a a sort of end
of year trophy, which was a throttle pedal with some markers
on it. And when you pushed it, it sort
of said, you know, second place was half throttle and Champion
was full throttle. So there was a bit of comedy,
they're in it why I didn't win, but no, nothing detrimental.
And then moving on, we get to the stage in in 9596 where I am
in a position to pick the championship that I want to do.
So the following 95 S 94, they wanted someone to go to Japan
and do the Super Tour Championship in Japan.
And nobody wanted to go, including me.
They they just kept offering. They just kept putting their
hand in the pocket and offering me more and more and more, not
just money, but all sorts of stuff.
And I said, OK, I'll do it for one year, but you know, I don't
want to do it for 95, we'll do it for 94.
And so I went to Japan and I did some races in the UK, but we'd
since been given 100 kilos. So the car in the UK wasn't very
good with 100 kilos of handicap on it.
But the car was good in in Japan and we very, very nearly won the
championship. We lost it at the last race and
which really frustrated me. Again, it was Schnitzer.
It was that championship in 94 and 95 was only about me.
Everybody else as team mates came and went.
They it was all about me, which is if, if you'd racing for
someone like Schnitzer and BMW and you're, you're the number
one driver and everything revolves around you, It's it's a
huge honour and it's just nice. I've never had that before.
So you know, special engines, everything.
Anyway, we lost it so and they came on the the had a meeting at
the end of that season and they said, look, you know, you very
nearly won it. BMW Japan wants us to come back
and try and win it again in 95, you know, are you up for it?
And, and deep down I was, but I didn't let them know.
So I sort of said, well, I know it was only for one year and,
and this and that and, you know, it's a long way to go and it's
it's this and it's that. And so I put all these excuses
and they just, they again, they just put their hands in their
pockets and he offered me this and they offered me that, you
know, so yet apart from expenses and how I flew there and back
and I had even had an agreement and if I wanted to come home for
four days, it was my decision. I didn't have to ring up the,
you know, the accounts department say, can can I get a
flight home? You know, on I can make all
those decisions. I could stay in the hotels,
which hotels I wanted, I could travel business class there and
back ends that apart from financially getting them to pay
a lot more money. I also said if I win, I want to
pick my programme for the 96. I want to choose not, you know,
I want to go and race in Russia and you're not racing in Russia,
but wherever you're wherever you're racing in the world,
England, Australia, Germany, Italy, I can have that pick.
And they said yes. So off we go again to Japan.
Luckily this time we win it. And at the end of that season
when we're doing all our meetings, they say, so where,
where do you want to race? And I said Germany.
It was a super Touring waggon St.
Yeah, STW, Yeah. I said Baghatsi Super Tour,
that's what I want to do. So that was that was all agreed.
And then as the 95 years started a sort of ends, I kept hearing
BMW GB mumbling my name for BTC the next year and I just ignored
it because I thought well maybe they don't know the deal, maybe
they don't know what I've already agreed with Germany so
don't get involved just ignore it.
Hopefully it'll go away. And about January, January or
February, the phone rang 1 evening and it was my boss in
Germany. And he I got on with him great,
but he was a no nonsense type of guy.
And it was, there was no hello or how are you or hi Steve, it's
Carla Heinz here. None of that was straight away.
What's this shit I hear about you not wanting to race in
England? And I before I could say
anything, you know, it's your homeland.
They all want you in England. Why don't you want to what's the
matter with you, blah, blah, blah.
And then he clicked on and on. I've asked it, how do I, how do
I get out of this? Anyway, one of his favourite
sayings to me, whether he was at a race track and he came up to
me on the grid or whether it was, you know, a meeting in his
office in in Munich, was he used to say, are you motivated?
And I used, if I was sat in the car on the grid, I'd say I'm not
really in the mood. And I was didn't really get up
that that well today. I said I don't really feel that
used to really wind him up and and you know, he'd walk off and
say shit English drive and but I knew by this stage I had a great
relationship with him. Anyway, he goes on and on and on
on at me this evening on this phone.
BMW GB want you and they think you're a star and you should
drive like, you know, how am I going to get out of this?
So I said to him, Carla Heinz, I said you're my boss.
I said, you once said you weren't my boss, we were
partners, but you're the guy that pays me.
You're my boss. If you tell me to race in
Russia, I said I'll race in Russia because you're my boss.
I have to do as I'm told. But I said if you ask me what
I'm motivated to do, I said it's not England.
I said it's Germany. And with that he said, you shit
guy. And he hung up the man wool.
I knew I got him. I knew I was home and dry.
So from that moment, that was the only real year 96 that I had
a choice. A bit later on about Le Mans,
they said to me did I want to be part of it?
Because they knew I didn't like Le Mans.
And they said we're going to do it until we win it.
Do you want to be part of the programme or not?
And obviously that was offered to me and I, I agreed to, to do
it, but that the, the sort of 96 year was the only one where I
had a lot of clout to actually pick what I wanted to do.
Yeah. The rest of the time they just
said, you know, there's, you know, there's Macau, Hong Kong,
Macau, BMW want you out there. There's a race, you know, are
you OK? They never said you're going.
They always would ask are you OK with going?
I don't actually know if I'd said no.
I'm, you know, I don't want to do it.
I said no for England But I I I did think I was pretty home dry
and comfortable in saying no. That 96 series in Germany, I
mean, it was a it was a heck of a championship.
You had you had, you know, the big names of like, you know,
Piero Wendlinger, Roland Ash Boots and Leroy Ella was there,
you know, Christian Abt, Sasha Mass and Anthony Reed, who
everyone would know on the podcast is there Capelli.
It was a strong field of drivers.
It it was great. Again, it was baguette.
See the car was good and we we started to become sort of
leading it or very close to leading it.
And again my boss came on the phone one night.
He said what can we do to make sure you win the championship?
And I had a teammate at the time called Alex Booksliner.
I think his nickname was tricking brain and and the the
team named him that, not me. So he was a young junior up and
coming junior driver. I said, well, I said two things
I could do with a teammate that could help me.
But I said, you know, don't just give me anyone it before before
they, they you ask them to do it.
They, it is they need to help me, not pretend to help me and
then clear off into the distance or you know, hinder me rather
than help me. And I said secondly, I've been
told that in England, I think it was Sukoto and David Brabham in
BTC in 96 in the Uki said I've been told that they've got some
special engines, anti friction engines.
And I said I don't know how many they've got.
I said, you know, if they've got 6, I'd like one.
If they've got 2, I'd like 1. I said I just need an engine.
So my my boss said, Oh no, he said they haven't got any
engines. I said, well, I said I've been
told they've got these special engines.
He said no they haven't. I said, well what about the team
mate? He said yeah, leave it with me,
who would you like? And so I said, what if Shakarta
agreed to help Johnny? I said he'd be my first choice.
So he said OK, leave with me, I'll come back to you.
So anyway, couple of days later he comes back.
He says right, He said some you're right about the engine.
He said they do have some. He said I never knew.
So he says shows what great boss I am, I don't know what the
Hell's going on. So he said I've got you one of
those. And he says I've got you
Chipotle to help you. So we then went to Berlin, which
was the next race and I think we were two races from the end,
three including Berlin. And Johnny drafted me round with
my engine, my new engine and I stuck it on pole position and I
think Chicoto qualified 4th and off we go.
I'm I'm leading the race. Everything is hunky Dory.
Chicoto's. 3rd or 4th, I can see them in my mirror, but I'm, I'm
up the road. It's looking pretty, pretty OK
that I'm going to win the race And all of a sudden I, there's
there's basically a 2 long straight, a very tight hairpin
as she came at a very fast hairpin like Mallory Park,
Gerrard's type hairpin. So I'm coming through the fast
hairpin 3rd or 4th gear and I see my teammate, not Tricotto
chicken brain and he's he's hit the barrier somewhere and he's
limping back to the pits. Problem is he's on he's on the
right and the pit laying in half a kilometre, a kilometre is on
the left. Whereas I'm coming through all
chat, I'm thinking and he's, you know, all the wheels are facing
in the wrong direction. The car's not particularly
trampling very straight. Just as I get on top of him, he
decides he's going to go from the right to the left without
looking. And I hit him and basically that
was it. That was my championship over.
The team nearly hung him afterwards.
You know, I mean, I can, I didn't even have to say anything
because we began to see team which he was in a Bugatti car.
I mean, they were then running three cars, one for Johnny, one
for me and one for him. They they were absolutely livid.
And that championship, another, another championship went out
the window. I got all these great excuses.
I mean, you know, it doesn't matter what what championship
I'd I've got a reason why I didn't win it.
In 97 and 98, talking about something that you did win is
you won at Macau, which is, you know, one of the most
prestigious races in the world, especially amongst touring cars,
as well as forming a free. And you won it in 97 with the
Gatsi and 98 with Schnitzer. So it's it's almost this fact
you did end up winning with both those teams that you enjoyed
being with so much at BMWI mean, how was that as an event?
It's it's quite a big event, isn't it?
It's, it's a great event and I love going there.
I love doing it. And luckily I was, I was always
in decent teams and decent cars. But I, you know, I think the
first year I did, it was probably 91 and I crashed in
free practise. I then turned up in 92 and I, I
got as far as qualifying and then I crashed and then turned
up in 93. I'm not sure about the years,
maybe the years aren't quite right, but I, every time I
turned up, I, I used to, I used to get a bit further into the
event before I hit the barrier. So by the time we got to 97,
very interesting story about the 97 roads because I that year I'd
be driving the McLaren and I hadn't driven a super tour from
9096 was the last time I drove the Super tour.
So all year I've been driving the McLaren in a World Series
with JJ And it was it was a good, it had quite a little bit
of downforce. It was the long tail one with
this sort of, you know, slightly better configuration.
And suddenly BMW said, oh, we want you to go to Macau.
Are you OK with that? And I said, yeah, which which
team? And they said all begatsi.
And I said, who's my teammate? And they said Winkler, well,
he'd won already at my count. And he, he was very good around
my count. I thought, God, this is going to
be, this is going to be hard work.
You know, I haven't driven a bloody car.
And I said, whose car is it? Am I using?
And they said, oh, Shakoto's car.
I said he saw any chance of a test before I go.
And he said, no, the car's already on its way.
So we turn up there and obviously the McLaren had taught
me, it had taught me a different driving, I would say finesse.
I was just a bit sharper and smoother than I ever had been in
a touring car. So the, the, the McLaren in
getting used to the McLaren had taking a little bit of time when
I first started to drive it. Luckily Leto helped me a lot,
especially in the quick stuff where it was using downforce,
you know, he said, you know, stop using the throttle like
that, don't hit the apex curb, just turning and the finger will
go round. And he was very helpful.
He got me up to speed quite soon, quite quickly in the
McLaren. So anyway, turn up at Macau and
I'm I'm I'm a little bit nervous that Joe's you know, I'm going
to be trailing Joe all the way through because you you know,
although I'm being paid and I'm enjoying it, We all we only want
to win. We don't like not hurting it
anyway, free practise qualifying in both races.
He couldn't get near me and I put that down to having now
I've, I've, I'm driving a different way after the, after
driving the McLaren for a year. I just think it had sharpened me
up and smoothed me, smoothed me out.
And I, I remember the, the, the corner, one of the quick corners
was a corner by the Mandarin Hotel.
It's probably changed now, but it's a very, very fast corner.
It's nearly flat, but it's it's not.
In the early days it was down one gear.
In 97 it was, it was six gear, but quite a lift.
And in through that corner I had something like, I think it was 9
kilometres more speed than Joe through there.
And Joe's not, you know, he's brave.
So it was just, and I've never seen Joe work so hard on the
setup and the telemetry. He was there late with his
engineers looking at my telemetry, looking at he's
trying to find where this where this time was and he just, he
couldn't find him. So that was a very rewarding
race that year. And I think I won the outright
thing in 97, whereas I think the following year I just won a
race, if that makes sense. I can't remember.
Yeah, it it in the end your, your career with BMW, you did Le
Mans as you mentioned in 99. Interesting.
You you you said there and I've I've heard this in the past as
well, that you didn't like Le Mans.
There was something about Le Mans that you didn't enjoy.
What? What was that?
Danger. Danger.
Safety. Yeah.
Fair health and sight. I'm, you know, I'm still racing
to this day, but I understand the what can go wrong.
And to me, you know, to drive Randleman in the daylight in a,
in a, a McLaren or prototype, fantastic, brilliant.
But to drive that race, the 24 hours in the night and the rain
with 7080 other cars on the track.
Yeah, it's if, if it goes wrong, it's going to look like a plane
crash. And in, you know, per the first
time I did it was 1983 in a Mazda organised by Tom
Walkinshaw Racing and it was myself, Jeff Allen and James
Weaver. And in the middle of the night,
this little Rotary engine Mazda run by Mazda Japan, Mazda Speed
was doing over 201 an hour down the straight and there was no
chicanes. And I promised myself in the
middle of the night that if I survived, I'd never go back
there because it frightened me. It really frightened the life
out of me. And from 83 to 96, I probably
turned offers down, I probably turned 10 offers down and said
no. And then BMW said OK, we're
going to do it until you until BMW wins it.
Do you want to be part of this programme or do you not?
So if you are a driver of my calibre, the three biggest races
in my opinion in the world is Indianapolis 500, Monaco,
Formula One, Monaco Grand Prix and Le Mans.
Yeah, well. Yeah.
I'm not going to never be able to even look at Indianapolis 500
or Monaco Grand Prix. But here I am with the
manufacturer that I know and know really well, and they're
offering me a possibility to be in a car that they're going to
keep doing it until they win Le Mans.
And I thought, well, I've got to be, you know, if I can win the
race, I've got to, I've got to go with that.
And also the teams, it's BMW, it's Begatsi, it's Snitzer.
I know the teams, you know, they're not everything is going
to be new when we turn up and then on, you know, be before the
we start the race, everything's going to be brand new again.
That's just how they work. So the the the car failing and
me hurting myself of small, the chances of me running into
another car in my opinion was high.
But you know, I've got to take that.
I've got to take that chance. Unfortunately, the 99 when they
did win it, obviously I wasn't in that car.
I was in another car and so I didn't win it, but it for me,
it's the slow cars, it's night. It's it's not me, it's the other
cars around you that the speed differential in the last time I
did it in the breaking area for the chicanes, you know, at 120
metre MOP we were still fat out doing 200 plus mile an hour.
And the smaller cars that at night, they don't know back then
that everyone had the same colour headlights.
There was no clever cameras or anything like that.
The smaller cars didn't know those headlights that were
coming up on them if they were doing 200 mile an hour or 120.
So for me, the speed differentials everywhere were
just too high and too much of A risk.
And every lap, every single lap for 8-9 hours, I would go, you
know, I would pray that they'd seen me and I'd normally swear
under my breath because at the last minute I figured they
hadn't seen me. And I'd start taking avoiding
action and end up on all The Dirty, what I called a hard
shoulder to miss someone just because they hadn't seen me.
And I don't, I don't consider that is racing.
That's, you know, the track. Fantastic.
What a place to drive around the cars that we were racing.
Fantastic. Daylight, yes, great.
If I could do if I could do them on Classics, I'd probably jump
at it in the daylight in a decent car, in a decent classic
historic car. But I never liked the race.
My wife loved it. I kept trying to get her to
drive and me me be the spectator, but that never seemed
to happen. That, that, that, that long
career with BMW that was spanned over a decade ended in 2000.
I seem to remember the time you didn't, you didn't have the
greatest relationships with Gerhard Berger, who was
overseeing the department at the time.
Is that, is that right? Was that?
Am I remembering right? Yeah.
I mean it. Only my relationship up until he
took over Motorsport was fine with him.
But then he took over Motorsport.
My boss was there. My boss employed Gerhard as a
consultant. And within a year, he, my boss
was moved out of that role. And Gerhard was in, in that
driving seat. And certainly at Le Mans.
He sort of said to me, look, I only want Formula One drivers.
I don't, I don't want you to drive this car.
And I said, well, you know, can you talk?
You know, I've done a load of testing with Williams and
Schnitzer. Can you talk to them about me?
And he said, no, I've made my decision.
So I then lost my likeness for him because he wouldn't
entertain me. In his world, you had to be a
Formula One driver. And he'd also retired, I think
at 36, so he didn't quite understand why he was paying
someone. I think I was 43 at the time,
4445. I don't know.
So I I've tried to negotiate and I didn't get very far.
And then he said if you want to do the race, he said you can
drive with the 98 Williams BMW with Thomas Becher and Bill
Oblin. So I said why would I do that?
So because he said, well, because you're employed by us
and you'll get paid. So I said, well I'll do, I'll
drive that car for you. But I said I've heard a rumour
that if after Le Mans you're possibly taking the 99 car to
America to do the American Le Mans Series.
And he said if you take it to America, I would have be part of
that programme. And he said you're OK deal.
And to be fair, had to remind him a couple of times.
But to be fair he did when, when they took a car to America, I
think we did 5 races and they, I was part of that programme.
So it it wasn't, I still see Gerhard today.
I mean, we're not friends, but I see him at Goodwood and other
places and BMW do's. He's fine.
We sit and we talk and you know that there's I don't remind him
of that time and he doesn't remind me of that time.
But it was just very frustrating that I, I had done so much.
I think Tom Christensen and I did 4 1/2 thousand kilometres of
testing with that 99 car and the car was just magic.
And it did win Le Mont and I wasn't in that car.
I was in the old 98 car, which just wasn't the wasn't a nice or
competitive car. I think we finished fit after
changing the clutch. We possibly might have finished
third but we had to put a clutch in it with about two hours to
go. So we we finished fifth.
No one remembers second, they only remember who wins that
there. Heading into 2001 then and he's
then come back to the BTCC with Peugeot.
Obviously, this was the first rule of first year of the BTC
cars as opposed to the Super Taurus.
It wasn't a great year in terms of competitiveness, was it?
The Vauxhalls were very far clear.
And I mean, was it in any way an enjoyable year for you or not?
Not the best year. Not not the best, but it was
circumstances. So I'd retired in 2000, you
know, Gerhard was my new boss. He was negotiating everyone's
contract, financially, whatever you want.
He was, he was sort of halving it up because they need more
money for the Williams Formula One programme and so and he
didn't want me considered that I was too old.
So I thought well, I'll stop now.
You know, let's let's call it, I think I was 50 then.
So we stopped, probably not. I was 49 or something.
So and then, but I just have acquired the BMW dealership,
which I acquired because I was retiring and that particular
business, new proposition was struggling like hell.
So I couldn't afford one that was making lots of money.
The only one I could afford was one that was losing a load of
money. And I underestimated how how
difficult and how long it would take to turn that around.
So suddenly Peugeot came on the phone and started saying would I
do BTC? And I said no.
And then he came back and upped the price and I said no.
And they said, well, you don't need to do any testing or any
marketing or promotion, Just turn up and race it and go home.
And they put the price up. And financially I needed, I
needed that contract. It just took a lot of pressure
off of the business. If, you know, that way I wasn't,
I didn't need to take a salary out of the business.
I could put some of that money back into the business.
So I said yes. And I did think the car would be
better than it actually was. The car was just too big and
heavy, The wheelbase was too long, the engine wasn't the
right design and it just wouldn't do what we wanted it to
do. And I think I, and it also there
was a quite a bit of pressure. Peugeot had basically been told
by France, Peugeot, France had told GB that unless they want to
race, that programme was over. So we were under an awful lot of
pressure to try and win a couple of races.
And eventually I got into the leader Alton Park and the
flipping thing developed an oil leak and it it, I could see the
oil coming out, everyone could see it smoking and it basically
run out of oil about 3 laps from the end and the engine broke.
So it wasn't. And then I also, Phil Bennett
decided to wind me out at Brands Hatch, had wounded up with me
sort of damaging my neck. So the whole Peugeot episode
saga was, yeah, shouldn't have really done it.
Would have been better. I would have preferred to have
stopped my career at BMW rather than do that that year.
It was a it was a tough year. The big action in that was
Steve, that the finale at Brands, I mean it did a lot of
damage to you at the time, physical damage.
Is it something you still suffer with now or is it do you still
have after the effects of it to this day?
No, because I I got it fixed. So what happened after that race
on the Sunday at Brands? I I then on Monday morning, I
drove to Lincoln. The BMW dealership was in
Lincoln and I had some meetings. So I, I drove to Lincoln, felt
fine, did all the meetings, felt more or less OK didn't think
anything a bit sore, but nothing other than that.
And I had a little sort of apartment up there that I stayed
when I was up there. I was normally up there for
three or four days a week and I went to bed in my apartment and
the next morning I couldn't get out of bed.
I had Vertigo like you cannot believe.
I really, I tried so hard to stand, I couldn't stand up and I
then stayed in bed for two days, kept thinking this is going to
go away. I rang my GP and my GP said well
don't know you better, you better try and get in and we'll
have a look at you. So in the end my wife had to
come up and pick me up and over a couple of hours I eventually
managed to stand up and get dressed.
Once I stood up and I stood up for 5-10 minutes I was fine.
No, no Vertigo. Anyway, kind of Long story short
and off I go to the doctor. They can't see what's wrong with
me so they say well you better have a brain scan.
By which time 10 days has gone by since that accident.
So I go and have a brain scan to see what's going on and in the
brain has just got bruised in the skull.
Basically the brain has rattled around in the skull and it's all
bruised and they can see the bruising on the scan and they
say you know that's fine it'll it'll couple more weeks that'll
all calm down and you'll be fine.
But at the same time they then notice that the neck there was a
problem with my neck and I had a vertebrae which had come
unlodged and was very, very close to the spinal cord and was
trapping all the nerves. So but it wasn't really in much
pain. But so off I go to see a
surgeon. I did a load of research which
who to put me right and I went to the best guy in the in the
England or reputably the best guy and he takes a load of scans
and say yeah, well you know, you're 50, it's a dangerous
operation, I don't want to do it.
Just change your lifestyle. So he said no, no skiing, no
rugby, no water skiing, no snow skiing and no motor racing.
Change your lifestyle, you'll be fine.
So that was 20 one 2001 I think. And so I didn't do anything
until 2013. I stopped racing and everything
and then one day my left arm went completely numb.
So pins and needles had no feeling in my left arm.
So I off I go back to see my surgeon and I, he looks at me,
gets a load more scans and he said, OK.
He said now you, you, you, you don't, you need surgery.
You don't need it next week. You need it tomorrow or Monday
at the latest. He said now everything's
deteriorated and your, your vertebrae is now embedded in the
spinal cord. So he said you need, you need
surgery. So which is what they they did
sort of two days later after seeing him.
And that was a four and a half hour operation and they removed
2 vertebrates and a load of discs and replaced them all with
carbon cages and some titanium. And I had to go and see him
every month for three months to see what the recovery was coming
along like. And after three months he said
no, that's good, I'm happy. So I said, how strong is that?
He is as strong as when you were 1920 years of age.
He says it's absolutely fun. I said can I race cars again?
He said, yeah, of course you can.
So that suddenly I had, you know, I don't know, 12 years off
and I, so I started the addiction was very easy to get
back, get those fixes and start racing again.
Yeah. I mean, we, we saw you a couple
of years ago at brands where you were not only demonstrating you
were racing your, your BMW Supertorio that you you have a
share in and do you still get the same thrill out of it now?
Well, not when it hits the barrier.
That was hard. It's all big that day.
That was that, that, that that trail was not.
Yeah, I still enjoy the the guy that actually owns that car.
It's, it's still being repaired as we speak.
We haven't rushed it. We want it absolutely spot on.
And the guy that owns that car also owns a couple of other
cars, which I, he lets me race with him and I do, I mean, I'd
be bored stiff if I didn't have the race.
It's not just the driving, it's the, it's, it's the weekend
environment of testing, qualifying, racing.
He's, he's still building his racing career.
He's only been at it for a couple of years.
So he's still needs a bit of help to get up to speed and he's
getting there, but he's getting frustrated that he's, you know,
he can't get the lap time. That I can do.
But that's good. He still needs me.
Steve, just want to thank you so much for spending so much of
your time with us this evening and looking back at your career.
Any particular highlights in any part of it at all that you look
back on and really fondly remember?
The problem is when you're racing as I've done you, you
never looked at anything you'd done that was, you know, a week
later, a year later. It was always next race, next
season, next con town. And so you only appreciate what
I'd done years later and I looked back, But you know, I had
a privileged career. I worked very, very hard at
staying employed. It wasn't all about winning
races. It was actually staying
employed. And if you go back to the Tim
Harvey Championship John Clinton thing in Germany, after three
races in DTM, 3-4 races, who, whichever driver BMW had the
most points, everyone else then battered for that guy.
So to go to England in BTC and help Tim, that was nothing
unusual for me. It was quite, quite easy to do.
I knew all the tricks and what to do and what not to do.
It just ended up in the wrong, wrong situation, wrong scenario,
you know, and I feel sorry for John, but at least he can blame
it on me. He can't blame it on himself for
not being quick enough or whatever.
So he's got someone to blame. Looking back at the rest of the
career. Yeah, I love the Macau thing.
I did. I did the 24 hour number of
ringing us here with Cosworth and won it with the two Klaus's.
The the one of the great memories was I, I did spar 24
hours, I think 8 or 9 times and I couldn't win it.
Every single time that car broke or something happened, one of my
team mates crashed or whatever. He just couldn't win it.
And then in 92 I turned up, we've Begatsi and my wife was
expecting my first daughter and when I left she, you know, she
was expecting, she wasn't in labour.
And then on I think Friday evening, she rang and said she
was in the hospital and in London in labour.
Could I get there? So I managed to get permission
off of them. Begatsi, the team boss,
Raffaelli and I flew back Friday night, was in the hospital for
when my daughter was born. Flew back early hours of
Saturday morning, started the race and we won the race on the
last lap from Schnitzer and it was trying to think who was it?
Yeah, I think was it? No, it was.
It was Vander Pol was in a Schnitzer car and that went down
in the closest ever finish for any race in history.
So having won it after 9 attempts, I also got a daughter
born on the same weekend. She nearly got called spa, but
we managed not to pull the spa alone.
Good say. But you know, there's, there's
lots of great memories. There's not one.
The Japanese thing was was incredible what the team, the
team never had any premises out there.
So for two years they used to fly out and prep the cars out
the back of a truck. They had a couple of trucks out
there with all those spares and they would, they would go to the
circuit early, get into the paddock and prep the cars and
they would fly backwards and forwards.
So to win and it was hugely competitive out there.
You know, Anthony Reed was there, Tom Christensen was
there, Justin Bell, Mikhail Krum was there, Andrew Gilbert Scott,
there was a lot of good fast drivers apart from all the
Japanese, like secure and people like that.
So that was very satisfying to win that championship.
So lots and lots of great sort of memories to look back on one
individual. I don't think so.
There's too many. Yeah, that's fair, especially
with such a varied career that you've had you.
Know yeah, you know, and I I loved the the last bit of my
career with the with the sort of prototypes and the the the sort
of I don't know what it was called FIA world sports car GT
championship, you know again we were racing around the world and
I had a teammate like JJ. It was Snitzer running the car.
It was just just mega. Yeah, a beautiful car.
That long till McLaren as well. Yeah, I want 1 little story.
I I'd tell you that car clubs that you know, you you you'd be
driving for Zack speed and something would happen that
you'd be on the happy about with the with the car.
Something could go wrong or something wasn't done and you'd
say under your breath, I bet this doesn't happen at
Schnitzer. I think you'd get to Schnitzer
and you know, a similar thing would happen.
You'd say, I bet this doesn't happen at, you know, in F1.
And then obviously then I started working for McLaren and
then Williams with them and them preparing cars and we would test
with Patrick Head and some of the F1 engineers and then
saintly Gordon Murray. And the difference is it all
does happen the same, but it's, it's far more sophisticated when
the problem goes wrong and it's covered up.
And I think we've Formula One, it never happens again.
Whereas often with a touring car team, you know, the same problem
will already occur. But doesn't matter where you
are, you're, you know, I remember a mechanic once saying
to me, oh, well, it's all right. You know I've made that mistake,
but you're a driver. You know, I'm the mechanic.
You know, it's not my fault I made a mistake.
I said, well, hang on a minute, he said.
He said, well, you sometimes crash.
I said yeah, but I got a millisecond to make a decision
and sometimes I get it wrong. I said you've got 24 hours and
you still get it wrong. And that's where we'll leave it
for this week's episode of Stories from Super Touring.
A huge thank you to Steve Sopa for joining us and sharing his
incredible journey and career with us for this week's episode.
Steve, thank you. OK, let me know when it's going
out. I will do, Steve, and thank you
to everyone who has listened to this week's episode of the
podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode,
make sure you follow and subscribe wherever you get your
podcasts on your podcast app of choice.
And please leave us a review. They really, really help.
If you want even more stories, exclusive insights and bonus
content, join our Paddock Club on patreonpatreon.com/super
Touring Pod, where you'll gain exclusive access to our new
podcast series, the Super Touring Years, which as voted
for by our listeners. We'll be focusing on the 1998
BTCC and Super Touring seasons around the globe.
You'll also get exclusive access to our new Watch Along series.
Anyway, we'll be back next week with more voices, more memories
and more stories from Super Touring.
Goodbye.