The Institute of ethnic curiosity is an opportunity to
do something that ran Charles used to talk about, which was
the guest host relationship. Yeah.
Job as a designer was tan tisza Pate the needs of your client
before they thought of it. And so what we're doing at The
Institute, it's bringing out ways that we can make the
collection more accessible, whether a pop-up exhibits or a
future larger space, we can share it online.
But the main thing is how to share these lessons.
And so people have more Tools in our toolbox to solve problems of
any scale. Hello.
And welcome to design, adjacent the podcast that talks about the
Nexus of design both today. And tomorrow, I'm your host, Ben
EF Johnson, eventually. Everything connects people,
ideas objects, Today, our guest is Lisa dimitra's.
She curator of The Institute. Lisa is the youngest
granddaughter of Ray and Charles Eames.
She's a third-generation maker following in the footsteps of
her creative lover. See she is leading the game's
Institute as his chief curator having previous experience as
archivists at MoMA and the game's official.
Has dedicated her life to keeping the name, the work and
the Legacy present through design Endeavors addition.
Additionally, Lisa serves on the board of several Arts
institution and has a passionate sculpted, I'd like to welcome to
design adjacent Lisa. Hi, Ru de great to be here.
It's really a pleasure hadden's. We were talking I was excited as
soon as we had our opening discussions about exploring the
Eames Institute of infinite curiosity.
Let's start with that name. It's such a provocative an
intriguing space infinite curiosity.
Well, I think one of the things I've always enjoyed with my
grandparents work is they would often call it a chain reaction,
how one thing likes the next. So it could be even in one given
year, like, the late 1950s where they could be working on an
alumna group chair. They could be working on a
proposal called the National Institute of Design.
They could be getting ready to be.
On an aquarium project and also pieces of furniture.
Like the aluminum group for the Miller House in Columbus,
Indiana. So, one thing naturally led to
another for them and this exploration and that's one of my
favorite things about curating from The Collection is seeing
how they solve the problems, how they learned along the way.
It's really interesting when you talk about learning along the
way, so much of the work that we take for granted is kind of
these icons that the grandparents created.
It's really interesting to think about the stories and the
problem solving and those decisions that went along the
way. What have you learned about that
process? Well after they passed away, we
did ship 750,000 images Library of Congress and which was their
wishes and a lot of 2D material. But the thing was Why my mother
went back into the office? It looked like nothing had been
taken out. And what my mom realized is it
was their process and that she wanted to share.
It's basically 3D printing before, 3D printing, meaning at
the Library of Congress. There's very few drawings of
chairs. It's really only after it's gone
into production. What we have are the prototypes
of how they developed the mold apply wood, or the aluminum
group or the airport tandem seating, because each chairman
served a specific need. And so it's exciting, is they
would make the prototypes, but then guess what?
They realize, how something is made influence, its design,
which means you make, not just the prototypes you make, the
machines that make the prototypes right then because
they were never interested in making a chair.
Once they wanted to figure out how they could scale it up to
100,000. And so steps of what it took to
do that, that's what we are able to illustrate and it's
incredible. I still keep learning about how
they solve problems even after 25.
Years of working with this material.
His interests when we think about this, it's not that they
are furniture designers but they are problem solvers.
Actually splits flipping the whole notion of design on its
head to swap out the word to say, problem solvers.
Yeah, they actually. Yeah, I do to add to that.
They actually called themselves. Tradesmen.
They said, either, they would see a need that needed to be
addressed or someone would come to them with a need that needed
to be addressed. And if you think of the design,
When then design becomes a method of action and all of my
grandparents work is about participating, with it is to sit
in a chair. It's to watch a film, it's to go
through an exhibit. And so to me, that's one of the
wonderful things is how people come to the work of my
grandparents, whether it's through a piece of furniture, or
it's a film like powers of 10, but then they can open up this
whole world of other areas that Ray and Charles were solving.
Problems. And we're curious problem
solvers and wanting to always make the best for the most for
the least. It's so interesting that your
grandparents represent the essence of collaboration.
And in today's world, we look at any Endeavor for problem
solving, both small and large. It's that human connection and
participation that so important, tough a bit about collaboration
in the work Well, for the two of them, I think also what makes
them very special is Charles coming to design from
architecture and Ray from painting.
So when they work together, they would often start at their home
and try out and idea because there are all these new
materials coming out, aluminum wire rod, holder Plywood, And
they would work separately and together, and they learn from
that before they even took the idea to the office.
And so they would try to start making these things themselves.
And then That's how they make a few hundred themselves of the
prototypes and then go to the office when they can make 5,000
of something, then it was worth shipping to Herman Miller.
True could scale it up to 100,000 but again that
collaborating with Herman Miller allowed them to scale up to that
level, but what their job, they always felt was to make the best
prototype possible. And that required lots of
testing on issues of materials. And then It's not just about
making a chair for Herman Miller.
It's about making a sustainable chair because not everyone's
going to save their Furniture if it goes in the landfill.
What does that mean? So it's the systems of how they
thought together and problem-solve, that's what I
really love to sharing through the collection that we have here
at the Institute. When you look at the Institute,
you're really having a lens to your grandparents existence and
work. But you're also projecting
forward in the future and talk a bit about the way you're
working. If artist creators and problem
solvers today. Well, what's great is it's an
opportunity to show how Ray and Charles?
Yes solved problems. But it's also that there are so
many problems that are similar to mass problems.
I mean, sustainability, Still Remains very important.
And so for any individual today, they can take this collection
about looking forward to solving problems.
And the challenges that we face today.
This collection is not about looking at the past.
It's about looking ahead and what's interesting with Ray and
Charles is that it was a working collection there, these pieces
that we have in the collection, a came from their office, they
were surrounded by it. It's prototypes Scale Models
Graphics, but also its things that they kept around to remind
them how to solve certain problems.
It's also things they collected and they as so things, they made
in their things that they collected that then they used in
their work. So it's a working collection,
then So working collection today.
So I love to ask this question is, how do we come to the spaces
we were in, but I'm going to ask a little differently for you.
When did you realize your grandparents were a little
different than the other grandparents?
I didn't realize that my grandparents were a little
different until probably my early 20s.
When my grandmother was giving a talk in New York City and I went
to meet her there and have dinner with her afterwards.
And there were so many people fussing over her and watching
her. Her and like talking about, you
know what she was sharing. It was a slideshow that she was
sharing from a project that she and Charles had done that.
That's why I was like, oh my goodness.
I mean, while she was kindly holding me close to her and
introducing me to people. And it was all kinds of people
from all kinds of places and that's why I was like oh this is
a little different than I expected.
I would love to add though, I had grandparents who never
talked down to us. I had grandparents that shared
whatever they were working on. So for me it felt Great
comfortable, and very fun to be next array in that moment when
she was being celebrated for a talk that she was giving.
So, if you've had a chance to live through the items that have
gone into production and those that haven't, where do you draw
into? What are your favorite
Creations? Well, usually it's whatever.
I'm archiving in the moment. So right now, I'm working on
some aluminum group would prototypes we're doing a little
pop-up show around, so that I'm enjoying right now, but it's
also that But I find that I keep noticing connections.
It's like a giant memory game. Okay, I can see a box that has a
toy trade in it. That toy train, which is a gift
from Billy Wilder to Charles. It's an IDE stray is used in a
short film, it's a property, Herman Miller showroom.
It's at my grandparents house on their first Christmas at the
Ames house in 1949. So what you see are objects used
multiple ways. Now after college, I worked.
In at the knees, Van, Der rohe archive in New York City for his
American drawings helping inventory. 14,000 drawings that
they had. And what's interesting is, this
is a different kind of archive. There's all these connections
between the materials. And so, that's what I'm saying,
is, you can see how they're seeing how things are working
there. Iterating.
I mean, my mom's favorite part was the iterating on the
furniture designs and seeing how things are going to connect and
attach. Because R and Charles were never
interested in what a chair will look like they want.
No, it was still doing its job in five, ten fifteen twenty,
five years and so those are the questions in the collection
here. We also have chairs that might
be broken or there might be something torn, but that's where
Ray and Charles new to make it stronger and better the next
time. Right?
Is kind of these points of iteration.
Exactly. Exactly when I look at the
Institute, one of the things that you kind of capture the
story of people you're working with is through stories, your
kind of these case stories of the work that you have.
Riff, you seen surprises where artists have been able to take
what they've learned from your grandparents and their
experience and apply it in new ways, I can think of a couple
ways. One would be, you know, being in
a more Digital Society today and internet companies, there's been
groups that have come from Silicon Valley and one of the
stories that I share is when Ray and Charles were first
designing, the multiply wood chair, they tried making it with
three legs because that's a very stable thing on the ground,
right? Right, there's a problem.
People don't know how to get out of the three-legged chair
without falling. So Ray and Charles recall
builded together with four legs, but they never called it a
failure. They just called it a
misconception and moved on. Hello.
So some companies after being here actually, would set up with
their teams, a fail, FAST program.
In other words, try the idea. Don't worry about the outcome
but just try out the idea. But an example, I'd also like to
give is growing up with Ray and Charles I'm often My earliest
memories is and it's being with them going out to dinner in, Los
Angeles and Venice, California. And we're coming back from
dinner and it was borscht and I was eight.
Charles says, to me, what do you think of dinner?
I said, I didn't like it very much.
He said, without missing a beat. How would you have done things
differently? Oh, wow, which means if you're
going to complain about something, you need to have a
better option. You have to understand what the
constraints are. And so we ended up he said, do
you even know what's in Or should I said no.
So he talked to me about Matt potatoes and onions and beets
and we talked about having mashed potatoes and a beet
salad, and then we wondered why the chef made it that day.
Was it the only things that were at the farmers market or was it
a someone's favorite dish? But we had this whole
conversation for three or four blocks back to the office that
made me look at things completely differently.
So it was a great design lesson, but it was also a great life
lesson. Wow, that's an incredible story
and experience. To live with that.
I think back to the work, you're doing agreeing it green an
archive to life. You know what, what have been,
some of your challenges of moving beyond the national the
Library of Congress GIF. Well, the flight drawings to
this now digitales first, interactive space, that you've
created true. And we have so much raw material
to work with because we have the library that came from the
office. I mean, how do we activate that?
So what's Amazing. Is the shift for me has been
before it was more, curators coming here, who had a specific
lined with, who would rival the list, this long Benny and then
leave, it'll this this long because they saw the additional
material, they could learn on and it sort of gets back to, it,
can give a fuller picture of how the salt problem was solved.
I think it begins with showing people how to look at things
differently and you can show that in Ran, Charles work
multiple ways. So it really becomes ran,
Charles would often say when they designed their own exhibits
like Mathematica for IBM, right? You can't show everything on a
subject. What you can do is show, maybe,
eight, ten, twelve things that get back person, excited enough
to learn more. So my goal is to show 8 or 10
things and this is what we're doing with the online exhibits
on the website to share that story in different ways, try to
have people be able to flip the object, digitally look at it.
Zoom in on details or something so they can have it as much.
An in-person experience with that object as they could and
then how they can then think about how that object was used
and then be able to apply what they learn from these of it.
What I love about the website is, then there's the flip, the
flip is over at for the Kazaam stories, where individuals and
designers today are often using many of the same lessons that
are saying things they have learned in.
In an architecture that Ray Charles did, maybe not even from
Ray and Charles. But it just shows how successful
that problem solving in that design process is and that we
all can learn it. It's not something that's
gifted, it's something everyone can gain.
And that's very important to me. When people often describe their
work, they use terms like logic and vision.
Artistic confidence color in juxtaposition combined with
youthful. Playfulness, curiosity and
invention. Those are incredible Pro scripts
that have been anyone's career. How do you, how are you able to
keep that kind of energy and those words that Spirit Alive in
the work that you're doing well as my They're always felt.
I feel like I'm a conduit to provide the opportunity to learn
directly from the work. You don't need my
interpretation. I just want to juxtapose things
in a certain way that making look at it differently, it's
always my goal. I always loved that Ray.
And Charles would give examples themselves of things that they
learn from, which were like part of the reason, there's things
like tops and kites in the collection is they would give
those examples of something. So well-designed, you forgot it
was effort. Designed.
Wow. And what's great about a top or
a kite is, you can see it in many cultures around the world.
They're passed from generation to generation.
Okay, so this is what it's like being an archivist at my
grandparents thing. Okay stories within stories.
So you look at the kind in the top and it's beautiful just to
look at. Then you look at it as something
that is passed from one generation to the next.
You think about it as it is something that you forgot it was
ever designed but There's another piece which is right and
Charles said, toys are preludes to Serious ideas.
So then that's another layer that happens.
Which is it. So that's why for me, it's easy
to come joyfully to work every day is because you start to see
those connections only when you're around the material and
you get to be around it. And you get to Be immersed in
it, which is sort of what my mother had created here is what
I would describe as like. So you see the furniture, you
see the exhibit pieces, you see the graphics and all of this and
then it all makes sense. Everything hangs together.
Everything is connected as you said in the introduction.
But in thinking about that, is you've grown, up in this space
we need it in moments where things have surprised you like,
looking back that you missed that moment and you've had the
experience of time and distance. An objective view, you catch
something in the rearview mirror, I realize they were onto
something there. I think for me, like one thing
that surprised me, but it's a thread that I keep seeing is
about sustainability and they're concerned about the environment
which most people don't think of with my grandparents work may be
initially. So it's watching.
So one of the first projects, my mother did after they passed
away was have their Phil's be put onto like video betamax
laserdiscs. If you remember those days or
not, I do. So so the point was us to make
them available, she considered them the essays and I've always
loved. I've learned so much from that
work. And one in particular, is the
solar do nothing machine, which is a machine they designed made
with this new material called aluminum.
That does absolutely nothing fabulously.
So you're mesmerized by this really amazing machine that does
absolutely nothing until the last moments where pans over a
solar panel and what you're realizing is there.
Showing alternatives to fossil fuels mean without saying it.
And so that to me are those magical lowlands.
It's also like a toy that I played with a million times on
visits to La, was this musical Tower there are actually two of
them that ran Charles had designed for the new time life
executive suites and it was basically showing Gravity the
power of gravity and you could show a marble dropping that
would be interesting but what if it could play a piece of music?
And so this musical Tower, you put marbles in the top and then
it plays the music. And you can also pull out the
notes, which are, it's a deconstructed xylophone and
change the piece of music. And so, for me, it's showing the
power of Gravity by a mean. You can think of dams and the
water energy. But you could also see, just the
beauty of something, they also had some beautiful music boxes
like from the 1880s. They were dealing with people
being afraid of computers and try to help IBM.
People over that fear by having some music boxes at the office
that showed machines, that brought people Joy.
You don't have to be afraid of all machines.
Wow, it's incredible to think of the scope of the problems
doesn't if they were solving in these waves that were not just
material, they were behavioral, they were cultural, you know,
they were mechanisms of our interaction with things around
us yet as they dig into the problems.
It's interesting that they are till known for solving one of
our most basic problems, which is the way the comfortably sit.
I'm always blown away that the Eames, you know, lcw was
selected by Time Magazine as the greatest design of the 20th
century. Now, greatest Furniture Design
that greatest architects knife, greatest design period of the
20th century, as a calling card. They were often brought in to
help organizations solve, big problems.
You know what a At and of processing framework.
Do you carry on today? Well, they would say, we don't
do art, we solve problems and then Charles would add, how do
we get from where we are to, where we want to be?
Wow. And that it's all the steps that
are in between which is I like Charles would talk about like,
just because, you know how a rainbow Works doesn't take away
from the magic of it. And so, for me, as I delve,
deeper and deeper into the legacy of my grandparents, it's
still magical that it's also very approachable.
How they Solve those problems and how they helped companies.
I think what's interesting is the most important thing was
design, addresses, a need and figuring out what that need is.
So, for example, when designing, the airport tandem seating
rather than just going and designing a chair for an
airport. Rain Charles looked at what was
wrong with the existing airport seating and first of all, they
would call not designing a chair.
They would call it designing seating, because if you said a
chair, you're eliminating the And before you thought of it
like when they did the lounge chair and ottoman, but for the
airport tandem seating, they said you talk to the person
who's going to buy it. But also the person is going to
take care of it. The real issues that they
learned were from the maintenance teams, and the
maintenance teams at that time. Said, it was the replacement
parts that made it difficult. In other words, the back and
seat were two, different shapes heavily upholstered took up a
lot of storage and it took two or three people to get the
piece, put in the new one. If you notice, Us.
And I hope you'll look at a chair at the airport
differently. Now the back and the seat of the
same shade. They roll up in a little too.
It takes one person 15 minutes to unscrew two screws pop it
out. Put the new one in its they were
making it easier to take care of this piece of furniture and
that's part of why it's so successful today.
At least in my eyes, I think one of the things I've learned is
also I look at it that Ray and Charles were mending systems as
opposed to replacing them. To when we were talking about
iterating on an edgy, right? And so there's I just so I just
think it's really did. When I look at things through
that lens, I see many more connections of the work and how
they shared it. And so, I just, I think it's
such an important point with their work and especially with
sustainability to today, think about how you can work with what
you have as opposed to throwing everything out and starting.
Do I love this notion of a boundless curiosity and not
being Limited. I'd buy your own expertise.
Kind of looking beyond what, you know, well to grandchild.
Yeah. They would say.
They said they they said, we're not the gifted.
They didn't believe in the gifted you, they believe you got
good at what you like to do. So you better go find out what
you like to do, right? That's funding.
And they did it themselves. I think it's at the back to what
we were saying, like re coming from painting and Charles from
architecture. Design was a tool to solve
problems and it was a way to look at the problem.
It was a way to see what the solution would be.
And so that's really what I focus on here is.
My goal is to build on how they did it, but I'm really looking
forward to how the designers of the future are going to do it
that leads into what I was going to ask you what's next for the
instrument? Where do you thinking about,
right? Well, right now, what I I think
about is Charles and Ray we call it log a hammer that if all you
have in your toolbox is a hammer, then all you're going to
do is solve your problems with a hammer.
So my goal is to put more Tools in people's tool boxes so that
they can solve more problems. I feel like there's a paralysis
today with the challenges that we face at different scales.
That for me, this is a way I could help and give back by
sharing the lessons that I learned from Rand.
Charles, because anybody Learn this.
And anyone can learn this through the material that we
have. So I want to see how these
lessons are applied to the Future and I can give you a
small example, but it meant something to me.
Yes, which is sure what I did that for story.
I went to the Oakland Museum where usually like, when that
something is out of Museum, I meet with the docents and I
couldn't share some of the stories and give some of the
examples of what I saw growing up so they can share.
And so one of the dozens came over to me and she said, you're
Before story works and I said, really, that's great.
How and she said, well, the next time I grandchildren complained
about the salad, I said, how would you like to do it
differently? And she said, it turns out, it
was the mushrooms. So we each make our salad, we
contribute and do this. And I was just so excited to
hear this and that's how we're going to change the world in
small increments. So it was just really special
and meaningful to me. It's it's an incredibly powerful
story and prompted thinking about it with my own kids.
That conversation, how would you design it?
How are you now, a part of the solution, right?
Exactly. And also, I mean, I was a woman
sculptor in the 90s and Charles passed away in 78.
I was 12 as I mentioned. But what was interesting was
that he never the, as I said, they never talked down to us,
and so, Charles knew I wanted to be a sculptor.
So the first thing he said to me said, you need to be able to use
every tool in your studio, if not better than the person you
hire or you won't know if there. Doing a good job.
Wow. And that was great advice, I
learned how to mig weld and TIG weld.
I learned how to drive a forklift.
It made me independent it meant that I could control all the
parts just as they did in their own work with designing a piece
of furniture. I mean, everything was in house
there at the office so whether they were designing an exhibit,
a piece of furniture, or making a film, they could do it all
there. And I remember Charles being up
on a crane zooming in for the powers of ten scenes and that
was normal. But it's, you know, interesting,
I think about your own Journey. So, what parts you back in, to
the easy time of it. So we talked about your time as
an archivist, your time, as an artist in the maker, what parts
You full circle, back to the conversations with Charles and
Ray. It's that their work, still
resonates today and there are still so many ways to share it
that we are still tapping into. And for me, I was doing this for
twenty years, more just myself and maybe one or two others, as
we would get ready for exhibits. But now, I have it, I work with
a team of about five or six in The Institute is getting larger
and larger and getting up to 15 to 20 and we'll get larger
still. What's fascinating is it's not
just about furniture. It's not just, this is about
trouble solving and governments. This is about policy.
I have friends who are in think tanks and they can take these
design. And apply it there.
So for me, I as I said it's my way of giving back and it's also
just a huge Joy, because I get to keep learning.
I love hearing from other people, what they took away and
how they're building on it. It's it never gets old and it's
your choice of language is always powerful here.
It's infinite the things you're going to Infinity The Institute
of ethnic curiosity is an opportunity to do something that
ran Charles used to talk about which It was the guest host
relationship. Yeah, job as a designer wished
anticipate, the needs of your client before they thought of
it. And so, what we're doing at The
Institute, it's bringing out ways that we can make the
collection were accessible. Whether I'm pop-up, exhibits or
a future larger space, we can share it online.
But the main thing is how to share these lessons.
And so people have more Tools in their toolbox to solve problems
of any scale. Which is really powerful and
really incredible Headroom in spaces where you've been
surprised to see your grandparents work or approach
referenced. And if you kind of going through
life and you have these moments, I think I am more used to that
because I have seen it referenced or given as an
analogy or something. I think the part that I do
notice is there is a seamless this between their work in their
life, their life was their work. It was their pleasure and there
was no on/off switch. It was just what brought them
joy. And I think for me that's
another thing is that they were working couple together, right?
The way I looked at it as each one had 51.
Percent of the vote and it was really fun to just to be around
them and see how they spoke. To people talk, to people how
they shared their ideas. They were incredible host, even
two grandchildren, it was a list of every movie they had made.
Now they made over 80 films. By the time, they passed away.
They knew every film that I'd already seen.
So they could share. This is the new one that came
out. Or did you want to see this?
Well, what you saw in the past? And this is that.
Now we do this on computers, rest was daughter with pieces of
paper and keeping track, but again it made me feel very
welcome on every visit. May be very excited to see what
the new things were. It was wonderful.
It's a really great analogy to think about the work.
I immediately go to the classic leather chair with the Ottoman,
and it always feels like someone's invited you in C,
right? Yes, it is right.
It encourages you to sit in lean back?
Yeah, can't resist the ottoman, right?
Do you have to put your feet up? Do you think you have to use it?
It's just a requirement. You know, no one's read this
requirement. It is the relationship you have
with with the chair and ottoman combination.
Exactly. And I love that the concept for
was. If you could sit in a first
baseman's mitt that opulent cushions but you could settle
down comfortably because of the leather was really great kind of
thing. I remember hearing stories that
Ray and Charles when they were first making the prototypes
Dropped off a couple at friends houses and one was a great
writer for Hollywood scripts and he was asleep when they came
back. It worked so weird.
That's it. No, no greater extent than a
midday nap. Right?
Exactly, exactly. And so we've talked about all of
these positive moments in there but one of the things that we
often have when we're working together and creative teams, is
that moment of creative tension, how did they resolve?
The creative tension through the design and prototype process.
I think for them it is because it's so much was done at the
Prototype process. What I noticed was more like
let's say it was a timeline for an exhibit like Franklin and
Jefferson the world of Franklin and Jefferson so piece of
information were pinned up on it or let's say it's a prototype
for a chair and the shape is getting hold basically you could
see one of them not challenging but saying what is why is this
important or what is this doing? And so there was Aspect of why
something was done a certain way and then it was funny, is
nothing ever stopped. Like even after a chair went
into production, part of the reason they like working with
Herman Miller is they could keep honing on it later.
So nothing was finished in some ways.
It's do. I look so you could keep pushing
and challenging things to the end of the days.
So there was a different kind of tension tension to me, comes
from when it's fixed, and that's it, right?
And there's no change after, there was always a moment to
change it later, to do another version to do something.
And the point was, did that next version do?
Well, there's this great story that Charles and Ray would say
which was who is something like if there was, you came up with
an idea. Then the point was is you came
up with more ideas and let's say you come back to the first idea.
You ever had and you're practically weeping because it
was such a simple idea and you just wish you would of it but
because you did those other 29 ideas that is what supports the
first idea and shows how great it is.
Wow. So if you hadn't done that work,
then that informs the first one. Wow.
It's I'll ask this question for you or see anything that you
wish our audience knew about your grandparents that hasn't
been published or is evident to things that you wish that people
would take away. What I want them to know is they
didn't just talk the talk, they actually walk the walk, right?
They when they said to me that I should be able to use every tool
in my studio as well. If not better than the person
are higher, they did that in their own office.
They could take the photograph of the They could develop the
fill, they could do any of those steps, but that meant, that they
were waiting for anybody, right? Which means they could get on
with the work. The other thing is I love this
quote by Charles, which is the most important thing is that you
love what you're doing. And the second that you're not
afraid of where your next ideal will lead.
And I encourage everybody to take that leap, just like they
did. Lisa, that that's incredible.
And I think that's the best way for us to close our conversation
today. That's how those work.
Those words are wonderful. They, I tell you, and that's the
thing is, like, with all their work, whether you're reading
something for Mathematica, the text, it's Sosa saint, but you
reflect on it for days later. And, and even if, when you try
to repeat it, that's why I had to write this down because they
each word is carefully. Chosen.
It works off of the other words I always as I said my goal is to
share as much of the original material for you to draw your
own conclusions. And that's what we're doing
today and I think it's powerful and we applaud and I encourage
everyone to dig in and learn more about Ray and Charles Eames
and the work of The Institute of infinite curiosity.
It's really doing some Dynamic projects and a resource for
designers problem solvers. And problem creators, right?
And I want everyone to write back to us.
What's another question? We should ask.
What would you like to know more about?
I love doing deep Dives on certain subjects.
Like, I can't wait to do the National Aquarium proposal
because that's where Ray and Charles were trying to focus on
conservation of the oceans and connect that with something you
can't see. So it we call it making the
invisible visible. And so that's one of many
projects that I really look. Or to our being able to dive
deeply. No pun intended for the website
or in person for Papa. Well I'll end where we began
which is eventually everything. Connects people ideas and
objects. Thank you, Lisa, for being proud
esteemed granddaughter, fellow Problem, Solver, Creator maker,
and really incredible, curator and guide, empowering us all to
look at At the example of your grandparents.
As a springboard for us challenging new problems of the
future. Thank you very much Benny.
It's been a pleasure talking with you today and thank you all
for listening to this episode of design, adjacent our podcast,
and wish you look at the Nexus of design both today and in this
case, building a better tomorrow.
Thank you. Thank you so much show notes for
this. Episode will be available on AIG
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