1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,600 The Institute of ethnic curiosity is an opportunity to 2 00:00:04,900 --> 00:00:07,100 do something that ran Charles used to talk about, which was 3 00:00:07,100 --> 00:00:09,300 the guest host relationship. Yeah. 4 00:00:09,300 --> 00:00:13,000 Job as a designer was tan tisza Pate the needs of your client 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,300 before they thought of it. And so what we're doing at The 6 00:00:15,300 --> 00:00:18,000 Institute, it's bringing out ways that we can make the 7 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,100 collection more accessible, whether a pop-up exhibits or a 8 00:00:21,100 --> 00:00:23,800 future larger space, we can share it online. 9 00:00:24,100 --> 00:00:28,000 But the main thing is how to share these lessons. 10 00:00:28,300 --> 00:00:32,000 And so people have more Tools in our toolbox to solve problems of 11 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,100 any scale. Hello. 12 00:00:36,500 --> 00:00:40,000 And welcome to design, adjacent the podcast that talks about the 13 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,700 Nexus of design both today. And tomorrow, I'm your host, Ben 14 00:00:44,700 --> 00:00:50,000 EF Johnson, eventually. Everything connects people, 15 00:00:50,300 --> 00:00:56,000 ideas objects, Today, our guest is Lisa dimitra's. 16 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:01,500 She curator of The Institute. Lisa is the youngest 17 00:01:01,500 --> 00:01:04,599 granddaughter of Ray and Charles Eames. 18 00:01:05,099 --> 00:01:08,800 She's a third-generation maker following in the footsteps of 19 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,000 her creative lover. See she is leading the game's 20 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,400 Institute as his chief curator having previous experience as 21 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,300 archivists at MoMA and the game's official. 22 00:01:21,500 --> 00:01:25,900 Has dedicated her life to keeping the name, the work and 23 00:01:25,900 --> 00:01:30,300 the Legacy present through design Endeavors addition. 24 00:01:30,300 --> 00:01:33,200 Additionally, Lisa serves on the board of several Arts 25 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,600 institution and has a passionate sculpted, I'd like to welcome to 26 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:42,700 design adjacent Lisa. Hi, Ru de great to be here. 27 00:01:43,700 --> 00:01:47,700 It's really a pleasure hadden's. We were talking I was excited as 28 00:01:47,700 --> 00:01:51,700 soon as we had our opening discussions about exploring the 29 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:55,400 Eames Institute of infinite curiosity. 30 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,500 Let's start with that name. It's such a provocative an 31 00:01:59,500 --> 00:02:01,800 intriguing space infinite curiosity. 32 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,700 Well, I think one of the things I've always enjoyed with my 33 00:02:05,700 --> 00:02:09,900 grandparents work is they would often call it a chain reaction, 34 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,700 how one thing likes the next. So it could be even in one given 35 00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:18,900 year, like, the late 1950s where they could be working on an 36 00:02:18,900 --> 00:02:21,700 alumna group chair. They could be working on a 37 00:02:21,700 --> 00:02:24,000 proposal called the National Institute of Design. 38 00:02:24,300 --> 00:02:26,200 They could be getting ready to be. 39 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,100 On an aquarium project and also pieces of furniture. 40 00:02:30,100 --> 00:02:33,400 Like the aluminum group for the Miller House in Columbus, 41 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,500 Indiana. So, one thing naturally led to 42 00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:40,000 another for them and this exploration and that's one of my 43 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,600 favorite things about curating from The Collection is seeing 44 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,900 how they solve the problems, how they learned along the way. 45 00:02:48,500 --> 00:02:51,400 It's really interesting when you talk about learning along the 46 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,400 way, so much of the work that we take for granted is kind of 47 00:02:55,408 --> 00:02:58,900 these icons that the grandparents created. 48 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,700 It's really interesting to think about the stories and the 49 00:03:01,700 --> 00:03:04,100 problem solving and those decisions that went along the 50 00:03:04,100 --> 00:03:06,300 way. What have you learned about that 51 00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:09,900 process? Well after they passed away, we 52 00:03:09,900 --> 00:03:14,600 did ship 750,000 images Library of Congress and which was their 53 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:19,200 wishes and a lot of 2D material. But the thing was Why my mother 54 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,900 went back into the office? It looked like nothing had been 55 00:03:21,900 --> 00:03:25,000 taken out. And what my mom realized is it 56 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,200 was their process and that she wanted to share. 57 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:32,800 It's basically 3D printing before, 3D printing, meaning at 58 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,300 the Library of Congress. There's very few drawings of 59 00:03:35,300 --> 00:03:37,000 chairs. It's really only after it's gone 60 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,100 into production. What we have are the prototypes 61 00:03:40,100 --> 00:03:43,200 of how they developed the mold apply wood, or the aluminum 62 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,100 group or the airport tandem seating, because each chairman 63 00:03:46,100 --> 00:03:49,800 served a specific need. And so it's exciting, is they 64 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,700 would make the prototypes, but then guess what? 65 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,300 They realize, how something is made influence, its design, 66 00:03:56,500 --> 00:03:59,100 which means you make, not just the prototypes you make, the 67 00:03:59,100 --> 00:04:03,000 machines that make the prototypes right then because 68 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,600 they were never interested in making a chair. 69 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,000 Once they wanted to figure out how they could scale it up to 70 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,900 100,000. And so steps of what it took to 71 00:04:09,900 --> 00:04:13,200 do that, that's what we are able to illustrate and it's 72 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,100 incredible. I still keep learning about how 73 00:04:16,100 --> 00:04:18,100 they solve problems even after 25. 74 00:04:18,300 --> 00:04:19,800 Years of working with this material. 75 00:04:21,100 --> 00:04:25,000 His interests when we think about this, it's not that they 76 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,500 are furniture designers but they are problem solvers. 77 00:04:29,900 --> 00:04:33,900 Actually splits flipping the whole notion of design on its 78 00:04:33,900 --> 00:04:37,100 head to swap out the word to say, problem solvers. 79 00:04:37,500 --> 00:04:40,400 Yeah, they actually. Yeah, I do to add to that. 80 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,300 They actually called themselves. Tradesmen. 81 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,300 They said, either, they would see a need that needed to be 82 00:04:45,300 --> 00:04:48,300 addressed or someone would come to them with a need that needed 83 00:04:48,300 --> 00:04:50,800 to be addressed. And if you think of the design, 84 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,400 When then design becomes a method of action and all of my 85 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,300 grandparents work is about participating, with it is to sit 86 00:04:59,300 --> 00:05:02,000 in a chair. It's to watch a film, it's to go 87 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,100 through an exhibit. And so to me, that's one of the 88 00:05:06,100 --> 00:05:09,500 wonderful things is how people come to the work of my 89 00:05:09,500 --> 00:05:12,400 grandparents, whether it's through a piece of furniture, or 90 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,600 it's a film like powers of 10, but then they can open up this 91 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,700 whole world of other areas that Ray and Charles were solving. 92 00:05:20,900 --> 00:05:22,400 Problems. And we're curious problem 93 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,500 solvers and wanting to always make the best for the most for 94 00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:29,600 the least. It's so interesting that your 95 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,100 grandparents represent the essence of collaboration. 96 00:05:33,700 --> 00:05:36,700 And in today's world, we look at any Endeavor for problem 97 00:05:36,700 --> 00:05:41,100 solving, both small and large. It's that human connection and 98 00:05:41,100 --> 00:05:45,200 participation that so important, tough a bit about collaboration 99 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,900 in the work Well, for the two of them, I think also what makes 100 00:05:49,900 --> 00:05:53,500 them very special is Charles coming to design from 101 00:05:53,500 --> 00:05:55,700 architecture and Ray from painting. 102 00:05:56,300 --> 00:05:59,700 So when they work together, they would often start at their home 103 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,400 and try out and idea because there are all these new 104 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,800 materials coming out, aluminum wire rod, holder Plywood, And 105 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,900 they would work separately and together, and they learn from 106 00:06:09,900 --> 00:06:12,400 that before they even took the idea to the office. 107 00:06:12,700 --> 00:06:15,800 And so they would try to start making these things themselves. 108 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,800 And then That's how they make a few hundred themselves of the 109 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,600 prototypes and then go to the office when they can make 5,000 110 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,600 of something, then it was worth shipping to Herman Miller. 111 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,600 True could scale it up to 100,000 but again that 112 00:06:30,700 --> 00:06:34,100 collaborating with Herman Miller allowed them to scale up to that 113 00:06:34,100 --> 00:06:37,700 level, but what their job, they always felt was to make the best 114 00:06:37,700 --> 00:06:40,800 prototype possible. And that required lots of 115 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:45,600 testing on issues of materials. And then It's not just about 116 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:46,800 making a chair for Herman Miller. 117 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,200 It's about making a sustainable chair because not everyone's 118 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,500 going to save their Furniture if it goes in the landfill. 119 00:06:51,500 --> 00:06:55,300 What does that mean? So it's the systems of how they 120 00:06:55,300 --> 00:06:58,500 thought together and problem-solve, that's what I 121 00:06:58,500 --> 00:07:01,700 really love to sharing through the collection that we have here 122 00:07:01,700 --> 00:07:05,200 at the Institute. When you look at the Institute, 123 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,500 you're really having a lens to your grandparents existence and 124 00:07:09,500 --> 00:07:11,300 work. But you're also projecting 125 00:07:11,300 --> 00:07:14,000 forward in the future and talk a bit about the way you're 126 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,700 working. If artist creators and problem 127 00:07:16,700 --> 00:07:20,400 solvers today. Well, what's great is it's an 128 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,300 opportunity to show how Ray and Charles? 129 00:07:23,300 --> 00:07:26,800 Yes solved problems. But it's also that there are so 130 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,800 many problems that are similar to mass problems. 131 00:07:30,100 --> 00:07:32,400 I mean, sustainability, Still Remains very important. 132 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,800 And so for any individual today, they can take this collection 133 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,900 about looking forward to solving problems. 134 00:07:39,900 --> 00:07:41,700 And the challenges that we face today. 135 00:07:41,900 --> 00:07:44,200 This collection is not about looking at the past. 136 00:07:44,300 --> 00:07:47,600 It's about looking ahead and what's interesting with Ray and 137 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:52,100 Charles is that it was a working collection there, these pieces 138 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,900 that we have in the collection, a came from their office, they 139 00:07:54,900 --> 00:07:58,600 were surrounded by it. It's prototypes Scale Models 140 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,800 Graphics, but also its things that they kept around to remind 141 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,500 them how to solve certain problems. 142 00:08:04,900 --> 00:08:08,500 It's also things they collected and they as so things, they made 143 00:08:08,500 --> 00:08:12,000 in their things that they collected that then they used in 144 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,100 their work. So it's a working collection, 145 00:08:14,100 --> 00:08:16,000 then So working collection today. 146 00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:19,900 So I love to ask this question is, how do we come to the spaces 147 00:08:19,900 --> 00:08:22,400 we were in, but I'm going to ask a little differently for you. 148 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,400 When did you realize your grandparents were a little 149 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,400 different than the other grandparents? 150 00:08:27,700 --> 00:08:30,800 I didn't realize that my grandparents were a little 151 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,299 different until probably my early 20s. 152 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,500 When my grandmother was giving a talk in New York City and I went 153 00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:40,200 to meet her there and have dinner with her afterwards. 154 00:08:40,500 --> 00:08:44,400 And there were so many people fussing over her and watching 155 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,400 her. Her and like talking about, you 156 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,100 know what she was sharing. It was a slideshow that she was 157 00:08:49,100 --> 00:08:52,400 sharing from a project that she and Charles had done that. 158 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,800 That's why I was like, oh my goodness. 159 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,900 I mean, while she was kindly holding me close to her and 160 00:08:57,900 --> 00:09:00,600 introducing me to people. And it was all kinds of people 161 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,200 from all kinds of places and that's why I was like oh this is 162 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,300 a little different than I expected. 163 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,200 I would love to add though, I had grandparents who never 164 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,800 talked down to us. I had grandparents that shared 165 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,900 whatever they were working on. So for me it felt Great 166 00:09:14,900 --> 00:09:18,700 comfortable, and very fun to be next array in that moment when 167 00:09:18,700 --> 00:09:21,200 she was being celebrated for a talk that she was giving. 168 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,800 So, if you've had a chance to live through the items that have 169 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,100 gone into production and those that haven't, where do you draw 170 00:09:29,100 --> 00:09:30,100 into? What are your favorite 171 00:09:30,100 --> 00:09:33,800 Creations? Well, usually it's whatever. 172 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,500 I'm archiving in the moment. So right now, I'm working on 173 00:09:36,500 --> 00:09:39,300 some aluminum group would prototypes we're doing a little 174 00:09:39,300 --> 00:09:43,600 pop-up show around, so that I'm enjoying right now, but it's 175 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:48,000 also that But I find that I keep noticing connections. 176 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,500 It's like a giant memory game. Okay, I can see a box that has a 177 00:09:52,508 --> 00:09:56,000 toy trade in it. That toy train, which is a gift 178 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,500 from Billy Wilder to Charles. It's an IDE stray is used in a 179 00:09:59,500 --> 00:10:02,800 short film, it's a property, Herman Miller showroom. 180 00:10:03,300 --> 00:10:06,300 It's at my grandparents house on their first Christmas at the 181 00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:10,500 Ames house in 1949. So what you see are objects used 182 00:10:10,500 --> 00:10:14,400 multiple ways. Now after college, I worked. 183 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,500 In at the knees, Van, Der rohe archive in New York City for his 184 00:10:17,500 --> 00:10:21,300 American drawings helping inventory. 14,000 drawings that 185 00:10:21,300 --> 00:10:23,600 they had. And what's interesting is, this 186 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,600 is a different kind of archive. There's all these connections 187 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,900 between the materials. And so, that's what I'm saying, 188 00:10:28,900 --> 00:10:31,500 is, you can see how they're seeing how things are working 189 00:10:31,500 --> 00:10:32,400 there. Iterating. 190 00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:35,000 I mean, my mom's favorite part was the iterating on the 191 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:39,300 furniture designs and seeing how things are going to connect and 192 00:10:39,300 --> 00:10:41,400 attach. Because R and Charles were never 193 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,400 interested in what a chair will look like they want. 194 00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:47,100 No, it was still doing its job in five, ten fifteen twenty, 195 00:10:47,100 --> 00:10:50,900 five years and so those are the questions in the collection 196 00:10:50,900 --> 00:10:52,800 here. We also have chairs that might 197 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,900 be broken or there might be something torn, but that's where 198 00:10:55,900 --> 00:10:58,400 Ray and Charles new to make it stronger and better the next 199 00:10:58,400 --> 00:10:59,700 time. Right? 200 00:10:59,700 --> 00:11:02,300 Is kind of these points of iteration. 201 00:11:02,500 --> 00:11:05,900 Exactly. Exactly when I look at the 202 00:11:05,900 --> 00:11:08,500 Institute, one of the things that you kind of capture the 203 00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:11,800 story of people you're working with is through stories, your 204 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,300 kind of these case stories of the work that you have. 205 00:11:14,900 --> 00:11:18,700 Riff, you seen surprises where artists have been able to take 206 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,300 what they've learned from your grandparents and their 207 00:11:21,300 --> 00:11:24,800 experience and apply it in new ways, I can think of a couple 208 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,900 ways. One would be, you know, being in 209 00:11:26,900 --> 00:11:31,300 a more Digital Society today and internet companies, there's been 210 00:11:31,300 --> 00:11:34,500 groups that have come from Silicon Valley and one of the 211 00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:38,200 stories that I share is when Ray and Charles were first 212 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,500 designing, the multiply wood chair, they tried making it with 213 00:11:41,500 --> 00:11:44,100 three legs because that's a very stable thing on the ground, 214 00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:46,000 right? Right, there's a problem. 215 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:48,400 People don't know how to get out of the three-legged chair 216 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,700 without falling. So Ray and Charles recall 217 00:11:51,700 --> 00:11:54,500 builded together with four legs, but they never called it a 218 00:11:54,508 --> 00:11:55,900 failure. They just called it a 219 00:11:55,908 --> 00:11:58,100 misconception and moved on. Hello. 220 00:11:58,100 --> 00:12:01,500 So some companies after being here actually, would set up with 221 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:04,200 their teams, a fail, FAST program. 222 00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:07,500 In other words, try the idea. Don't worry about the outcome 223 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,000 but just try out the idea. But an example, I'd also like to 224 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:15,500 give is growing up with Ray and Charles I'm often My earliest 225 00:12:15,500 --> 00:12:19,100 memories is and it's being with them going out to dinner in, Los 226 00:12:19,100 --> 00:12:22,800 Angeles and Venice, California. And we're coming back from 227 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,400 dinner and it was borscht and I was eight. 228 00:12:25,700 --> 00:12:27,900 Charles says, to me, what do you think of dinner? 229 00:12:28,300 --> 00:12:30,000 I said, I didn't like it very much. 230 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,200 He said, without missing a beat. How would you have done things 231 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,100 differently? Oh, wow, which means if you're 232 00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:38,100 going to complain about something, you need to have a 233 00:12:38,100 --> 00:12:39,900 better option. You have to understand what the 234 00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:43,000 constraints are. And so we ended up he said, do 235 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,500 you even know what's in Or should I said no. 236 00:12:45,500 --> 00:12:49,100 So he talked to me about Matt potatoes and onions and beets 237 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,700 and we talked about having mashed potatoes and a beet 238 00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:55,500 salad, and then we wondered why the chef made it that day. 239 00:12:55,500 --> 00:12:58,500 Was it the only things that were at the farmers market or was it 240 00:12:58,500 --> 00:13:01,000 a someone's favorite dish? But we had this whole 241 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,400 conversation for three or four blocks back to the office that 242 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,700 made me look at things completely differently. 243 00:13:06,700 --> 00:13:10,100 So it was a great design lesson, but it was also a great life 244 00:13:10,100 --> 00:13:13,400 lesson. Wow, that's an incredible story 245 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,400 and experience. To live with that. 246 00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:20,300 I think back to the work, you're doing agreeing it green an 247 00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:23,900 archive to life. You know what, what have been, 248 00:13:23,900 --> 00:13:27,500 some of your challenges of moving beyond the national the 249 00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:30,900 Library of Congress GIF. Well, the flight drawings to 250 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,000 this now digitales first, interactive space, that you've 251 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,500 created true. And we have so much raw material 252 00:13:37,500 --> 00:13:40,600 to work with because we have the library that came from the 253 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,900 office. I mean, how do we activate that? 254 00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:46,700 So what's Amazing. Is the shift for me has been 255 00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:52,100 before it was more, curators coming here, who had a specific 256 00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:56,400 lined with, who would rival the list, this long Benny and then 257 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,100 leave, it'll this this long because they saw the additional 258 00:13:59,100 --> 00:14:03,000 material, they could learn on and it sort of gets back to, it, 259 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,000 can give a fuller picture of how the salt problem was solved. 260 00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:09,600 I think it begins with showing people how to look at things 261 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,100 differently and you can show that in Ran, Charles work 262 00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:16,700 multiple ways. So it really becomes ran, 263 00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:19,600 Charles would often say when they designed their own exhibits 264 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,800 like Mathematica for IBM, right? You can't show everything on a 265 00:14:23,808 --> 00:14:26,700 subject. What you can do is show, maybe, 266 00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:29,500 eight, ten, twelve things that get back person, excited enough 267 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:34,100 to learn more. So my goal is to show 8 or 10 268 00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:36,800 things and this is what we're doing with the online exhibits 269 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,000 on the website to share that story in different ways, try to 270 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,300 have people be able to flip the object, digitally look at it. 271 00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:47,600 Zoom in on details or something so they can have it as much. 272 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,900 An in-person experience with that object as they could and 273 00:14:50,900 --> 00:14:54,700 then how they can then think about how that object was used 274 00:14:54,700 --> 00:14:58,800 and then be able to apply what they learn from these of it. 275 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,500 What I love about the website is, then there's the flip, the 276 00:15:02,500 --> 00:15:06,600 flip is over at for the Kazaam stories, where individuals and 277 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:11,800 designers today are often using many of the same lessons that 278 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,200 are saying things they have learned in. 279 00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:17,800 In an architecture that Ray Charles did, maybe not even from 280 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,200 Ray and Charles. But it just shows how successful 281 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,600 that problem solving in that design process is and that we 282 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,800 all can learn it. It's not something that's 283 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,800 gifted, it's something everyone can gain. 284 00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:35,400 And that's very important to me. When people often describe their 285 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,500 work, they use terms like logic and vision. 286 00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:43,900 Artistic confidence color in juxtaposition combined with 287 00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:46,000 youthful. Playfulness, curiosity and 288 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,100 invention. Those are incredible Pro scripts 289 00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:52,500 that have been anyone's career. How do you, how are you able to 290 00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:58,300 keep that kind of energy and those words that Spirit Alive in 291 00:15:58,300 --> 00:16:02,900 the work that you're doing well as my They're always felt. 292 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,900 I feel like I'm a conduit to provide the opportunity to learn 293 00:16:06,900 --> 00:16:09,000 directly from the work. You don't need my 294 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,900 interpretation. I just want to juxtapose things 295 00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:14,900 in a certain way that making look at it differently, it's 296 00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:17,600 always my goal. I always loved that Ray. 297 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,700 And Charles would give examples themselves of things that they 298 00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:24,100 learn from, which were like part of the reason, there's things 299 00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:27,100 like tops and kites in the collection is they would give 300 00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:31,200 those examples of something. So well-designed, you forgot it 301 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:32,200 was effort. Designed. 302 00:16:32,300 --> 00:16:35,900 Wow. And what's great about a top or 303 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,200 a kite is, you can see it in many cultures around the world. 304 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,200 They're passed from generation to generation. 305 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,900 Okay, so this is what it's like being an archivist at my 306 00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:48,000 grandparents thing. Okay stories within stories. 307 00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:51,500 So you look at the kind in the top and it's beautiful just to 308 00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:53,700 look at. Then you look at it as something 309 00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:56,500 that is passed from one generation to the next. 310 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,200 You think about it as it is something that you forgot it was 311 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,600 ever designed but There's another piece which is right and 312 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,599 Charles said, toys are preludes to Serious ideas. 313 00:17:07,700 --> 00:17:09,599 So then that's another layer that happens. 314 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:11,900 Which is it. So that's why for me, it's easy 315 00:17:12,099 --> 00:17:16,900 to come joyfully to work every day is because you start to see 316 00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:19,500 those connections only when you're around the material and 317 00:17:19,500 --> 00:17:24,700 you get to be around it. And you get to Be immersed in 318 00:17:24,700 --> 00:17:27,200 it, which is sort of what my mother had created here is what 319 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,500 I would describe as like. So you see the furniture, you 320 00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:33,100 see the exhibit pieces, you see the graphics and all of this and 321 00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:36,000 then it all makes sense. Everything hangs together. 322 00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:38,800 Everything is connected as you said in the introduction. 323 00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:42,900 But in thinking about that, is you've grown, up in this space 324 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,600 we need it in moments where things have surprised you like, 325 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,800 looking back that you missed that moment and you've had the 326 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,900 experience of time and distance. An objective view, you catch 327 00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:57,900 something in the rearview mirror, I realize they were onto 328 00:17:57,900 --> 00:18:01,400 something there. I think for me, like one thing 329 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,300 that surprised me, but it's a thread that I keep seeing is 330 00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:07,800 about sustainability and they're concerned about the environment 331 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,000 which most people don't think of with my grandparents work may be 332 00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:12,900 initially. So it's watching. 333 00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:15,500 So one of the first projects, my mother did after they passed 334 00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:19,700 away was have their Phil's be put onto like video betamax 335 00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:22,000 laserdiscs. If you remember those days or 336 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,300 not, I do. So so the point was us to make 337 00:18:25,300 --> 00:18:28,200 them available, she considered them the essays and I've always 338 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,500 loved. I've learned so much from that 339 00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:32,100 work. And one in particular, is the 340 00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:36,300 solar do nothing machine, which is a machine they designed made 341 00:18:36,300 --> 00:18:38,100 with this new material called aluminum. 342 00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:41,500 That does absolutely nothing fabulously. 343 00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:44,500 So you're mesmerized by this really amazing machine that does 344 00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:49,600 absolutely nothing until the last moments where pans over a 345 00:18:49,608 --> 00:18:53,400 solar panel and what you're realizing is there. 346 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,600 Showing alternatives to fossil fuels mean without saying it. 347 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,000 And so that to me are those magical lowlands. 348 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,500 It's also like a toy that I played with a million times on 349 00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:08,000 visits to La, was this musical Tower there are actually two of 350 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,900 them that ran Charles had designed for the new time life 351 00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:15,700 executive suites and it was basically showing Gravity the 352 00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:19,800 power of gravity and you could show a marble dropping that 353 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,100 would be interesting but what if it could play a piece of music? 354 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,000 And so this musical Tower, you put marbles in the top and then 355 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,800 it plays the music. And you can also pull out the 356 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,100 notes, which are, it's a deconstructed xylophone and 357 00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:35,100 change the piece of music. And so, for me, it's showing the 358 00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:38,700 power of Gravity by a mean. You can think of dams and the 359 00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:41,700 water energy. But you could also see, just the 360 00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:46,400 beauty of something, they also had some beautiful music boxes 361 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,500 like from the 1880s. They were dealing with people 362 00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:52,200 being afraid of computers and try to help IBM. 363 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,700 People over that fear by having some music boxes at the office 364 00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:59,400 that showed machines, that brought people Joy. 365 00:20:00,100 --> 00:20:02,000 You don't have to be afraid of all machines. 366 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,800 Wow, it's incredible to think of the scope of the problems 367 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,500 doesn't if they were solving in these waves that were not just 368 00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:14,200 material, they were behavioral, they were cultural, you know, 369 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,300 they were mechanisms of our interaction with things around 370 00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:20,100 us yet as they dig into the problems. 371 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:25,000 It's interesting that they are till known for solving one of 372 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,500 our most basic problems, which is the way the comfortably sit. 373 00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:35,200 I'm always blown away that the Eames, you know, lcw was 374 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,800 selected by Time Magazine as the greatest design of the 20th 375 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,600 century. Now, greatest Furniture Design 376 00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:45,400 that greatest architects knife, greatest design period of the 377 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,100 20th century, as a calling card. They were often brought in to 378 00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:51,300 help organizations solve, big problems. 379 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,600 You know what a At and of processing framework. 380 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,800 Do you carry on today? Well, they would say, we don't 381 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,800 do art, we solve problems and then Charles would add, how do 382 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,400 we get from where we are to, where we want to be? 383 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,600 Wow. And that it's all the steps that 384 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,600 are in between which is I like Charles would talk about like, 385 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,000 just because, you know how a rainbow Works doesn't take away 386 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,100 from the magic of it. And so, for me, as I delve, 387 00:21:16,100 --> 00:21:19,000 deeper and deeper into the legacy of my grandparents, it's 388 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,000 still magical that it's also very approachable. 389 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,700 How they Solve those problems and how they helped companies. 390 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,900 I think what's interesting is the most important thing was 391 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,700 design, addresses, a need and figuring out what that need is. 392 00:21:34,100 --> 00:21:37,300 So, for example, when designing, the airport tandem seating 393 00:21:37,700 --> 00:21:40,200 rather than just going and designing a chair for an 394 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,900 airport. Rain Charles looked at what was 395 00:21:42,900 --> 00:21:46,800 wrong with the existing airport seating and first of all, they 396 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,300 would call not designing a chair. 397 00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:51,100 They would call it designing seating, because if you said a 398 00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:53,800 chair, you're eliminating the And before you thought of it 399 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,400 like when they did the lounge chair and ottoman, but for the 400 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,500 airport tandem seating, they said you talk to the person 401 00:21:58,500 --> 00:22:00,700 who's going to buy it. But also the person is going to 402 00:22:00,708 --> 00:22:05,200 take care of it. The real issues that they 403 00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:08,500 learned were from the maintenance teams, and the 404 00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:11,300 maintenance teams at that time. Said, it was the replacement 405 00:22:11,300 --> 00:22:14,300 parts that made it difficult. In other words, the back and 406 00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:17,300 seat were two, different shapes heavily upholstered took up a 407 00:22:17,308 --> 00:22:20,200 lot of storage and it took two or three people to get the 408 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,600 piece, put in the new one. If you notice, Us. 409 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,300 And I hope you'll look at a chair at the airport 410 00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:26,500 differently. Now the back and the seat of the 411 00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:28,900 same shade. They roll up in a little too. 412 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,400 It takes one person 15 minutes to unscrew two screws pop it 413 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,600 out. Put the new one in its they were 414 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,700 making it easier to take care of this piece of furniture and 415 00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:42,100 that's part of why it's so successful today. 416 00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:46,700 At least in my eyes, I think one of the things I've learned is 417 00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:50,500 also I look at it that Ray and Charles were mending systems as 418 00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:53,500 opposed to replacing them. To when we were talking about 419 00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:57,900 iterating on an edgy, right? And so there's I just so I just 420 00:22:57,900 --> 00:23:00,400 think it's really did. When I look at things through 421 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,500 that lens, I see many more connections of the work and how 422 00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:07,200 they shared it. And so, I just, I think it's 423 00:23:07,208 --> 00:23:10,500 such an important point with their work and especially with 424 00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:13,500 sustainability to today, think about how you can work with what 425 00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:16,500 you have as opposed to throwing everything out and starting. 426 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:21,400 Do I love this notion of a boundless curiosity and not 427 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,700 being Limited. I'd buy your own expertise. 428 00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:30,400 Kind of looking beyond what, you know, well to grandchild. 429 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:31,400 Yeah. They would say. 430 00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:34,700 They said they they said, we're not the gifted. 431 00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:37,700 They didn't believe in the gifted you, they believe you got 432 00:23:37,700 --> 00:23:40,500 good at what you like to do. So you better go find out what 433 00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:42,700 you like to do, right? That's funding. 434 00:23:42,700 --> 00:23:45,500 And they did it themselves. I think it's at the back to what 435 00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:48,000 we were saying, like re coming from painting and Charles from 436 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,800 architecture. Design was a tool to solve 437 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,700 problems and it was a way to look at the problem. 438 00:23:55,700 --> 00:23:58,800 It was a way to see what the solution would be. 439 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,300 And so that's really what I focus on here is. 440 00:24:02,300 --> 00:24:07,900 My goal is to build on how they did it, but I'm really looking 441 00:24:07,900 --> 00:24:11,000 forward to how the designers of the future are going to do it 442 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,100 that leads into what I was going to ask you what's next for the 443 00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:16,400 instrument? Where do you thinking about, 444 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,400 right? Well, right now, what I I think 445 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:24,600 about is Charles and Ray we call it log a hammer that if all you 446 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,200 have in your toolbox is a hammer, then all you're going to 447 00:24:27,208 --> 00:24:28,900 do is solve your problems with a hammer. 448 00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:33,100 So my goal is to put more Tools in people's tool boxes so that 449 00:24:33,100 --> 00:24:36,200 they can solve more problems. I feel like there's a paralysis 450 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,300 today with the challenges that we face at different scales. 451 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:45,300 That for me, this is a way I could help and give back by 452 00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:47,200 sharing the lessons that I learned from Rand. 453 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,000 Charles, because anybody Learn this. 454 00:24:50,300 --> 00:24:52,400 And anyone can learn this through the material that we 455 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,600 have. So I want to see how these 456 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,600 lessons are applied to the Future and I can give you a 457 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,300 small example, but it meant something to me. 458 00:25:01,700 --> 00:25:04,500 Yes, which is sure what I did that for story. 459 00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:08,100 I went to the Oakland Museum where usually like, when that 460 00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:10,800 something is out of Museum, I meet with the docents and I 461 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,400 couldn't share some of the stories and give some of the 462 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,800 examples of what I saw growing up so they can share. 463 00:25:16,300 --> 00:25:19,100 And so one of the dozens came over to me and she said, you're 464 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,200 Before story works and I said, really, that's great. 465 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,500 How and she said, well, the next time I grandchildren complained 466 00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:28,700 about the salad, I said, how would you like to do it 467 00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:30,700 differently? And she said, it turns out, it 468 00:25:30,700 --> 00:25:34,100 was the mushrooms. So we each make our salad, we 469 00:25:34,100 --> 00:25:37,700 contribute and do this. And I was just so excited to 470 00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:40,500 hear this and that's how we're going to change the world in 471 00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:43,000 small increments. So it was just really special 472 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,300 and meaningful to me. It's it's an incredibly powerful 473 00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:49,100 story and prompted thinking about it with my own kids. 474 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,400 That conversation, how would you design it? 475 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,300 How are you now, a part of the solution, right? 476 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,100 Exactly. And also, I mean, I was a woman 477 00:25:58,100 --> 00:26:03,100 sculptor in the 90s and Charles passed away in 78. 478 00:26:03,100 --> 00:26:06,000 I was 12 as I mentioned. But what was interesting was 479 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,700 that he never the, as I said, they never talked down to us, 480 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,100 and so, Charles knew I wanted to be a sculptor. 481 00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:14,900 So the first thing he said to me said, you need to be able to use 482 00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:17,800 every tool in your studio, if not better than the person you 483 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,000 hire or you won't know if there. Doing a good job. 484 00:26:20,500 --> 00:26:22,900 Wow. And that was great advice, I 485 00:26:22,900 --> 00:26:25,400 learned how to mig weld and TIG weld. 486 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,400 I learned how to drive a forklift. 487 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,400 It made me independent it meant that I could control all the 488 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,600 parts just as they did in their own work with designing a piece 489 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,900 of furniture. I mean, everything was in house 490 00:26:35,900 --> 00:26:39,100 there at the office so whether they were designing an exhibit, 491 00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:42,300 a piece of furniture, or making a film, they could do it all 492 00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:44,500 there. And I remember Charles being up 493 00:26:44,500 --> 00:26:48,200 on a crane zooming in for the powers of ten scenes and that 494 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,000 was normal. But it's, you know, interesting, 495 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,800 I think about your own Journey. So, what parts you back in, to 496 00:26:56,100 --> 00:26:58,200 the easy time of it. So we talked about your time as 497 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,300 an archivist, your time, as an artist in the maker, what parts 498 00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:06,700 You full circle, back to the conversations with Charles and 499 00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:09,800 Ray. It's that their work, still 500 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:14,300 resonates today and there are still so many ways to share it 501 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:19,000 that we are still tapping into. And for me, I was doing this for 502 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,600 twenty years, more just myself and maybe one or two others, as 503 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,900 we would get ready for exhibits. But now, I have it, I work with 504 00:27:26,900 --> 00:27:29,900 a team of about five or six in The Institute is getting larger 505 00:27:29,900 --> 00:27:33,700 and larger and getting up to 15 to 20 and we'll get larger 506 00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:37,400 still. What's fascinating is it's not 507 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,800 just about furniture. It's not just, this is about 508 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,800 trouble solving and governments. This is about policy. 509 00:27:45,100 --> 00:27:48,000 I have friends who are in think tanks and they can take these 510 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,400 design. And apply it there. 511 00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:56,400 So for me, I as I said it's my way of giving back and it's also 512 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,900 just a huge Joy, because I get to keep learning. 513 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,400 I love hearing from other people, what they took away and 514 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,000 how they're building on it. It's it never gets old and it's 515 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,500 your choice of language is always powerful here. 516 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,000 It's infinite the things you're going to Infinity The Institute 517 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,600 of ethnic curiosity is an opportunity to do something that 518 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,000 ran Charles used to talk about which It was the guest host 519 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,500 relationship. Yeah, job as a designer wished 520 00:28:23,500 --> 00:28:25,900 anticipate, the needs of your client before they thought of 521 00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:27,400 it. And so, what we're doing at The 522 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,100 Institute, it's bringing out ways that we can make the 523 00:28:30,100 --> 00:28:33,100 collection were accessible. Whether I'm pop-up, exhibits or 524 00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:35,900 a future larger space, we can share it online. 525 00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:40,100 But the main thing is how to share these lessons. 526 00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:44,100 And so people have more Tools in their toolbox to solve problems 527 00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:47,500 of any scale. Which is really powerful and 528 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,900 really incredible Headroom in spaces where you've been 529 00:28:50,900 --> 00:28:55,200 surprised to see your grandparents work or approach 530 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,200 referenced. And if you kind of going through 531 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:03,000 life and you have these moments, I think I am more used to that 532 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,300 because I have seen it referenced or given as an 533 00:29:07,300 --> 00:29:10,700 analogy or something. I think the part that I do 534 00:29:10,700 --> 00:29:14,800 notice is there is a seamless this between their work in their 535 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:19,500 life, their life was their work. It was their pleasure and there 536 00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:23,000 was no on/off switch. It was just what brought them 537 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,700 joy. And I think for me that's 538 00:29:25,700 --> 00:29:28,700 another thing is that they were working couple together, right? 539 00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:30,500 The way I looked at it as each one had 51. 540 00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:35,600 Percent of the vote and it was really fun to just to be around 541 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:40,000 them and see how they spoke. To people talk, to people how 542 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,300 they shared their ideas. They were incredible host, even 543 00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:47,100 two grandchildren, it was a list of every movie they had made. 544 00:29:47,100 --> 00:29:50,200 Now they made over 80 films. By the time, they passed away. 545 00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:53,000 They knew every film that I'd already seen. 546 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,100 So they could share. This is the new one that came 547 00:29:55,100 --> 00:29:56,700 out. Or did you want to see this? 548 00:29:56,700 --> 00:29:59,700 Well, what you saw in the past? And this is that. 549 00:29:59,700 --> 00:30:03,000 Now we do this on computers, rest was daughter with pieces of 550 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,000 paper and keeping track, but again it made me feel very 551 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,500 welcome on every visit. May be very excited to see what 552 00:30:08,500 --> 00:30:10,600 the new things were. It was wonderful. 553 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,500 It's a really great analogy to think about the work. 554 00:30:13,500 --> 00:30:17,800 I immediately go to the classic leather chair with the Ottoman, 555 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,700 and it always feels like someone's invited you in C, 556 00:30:21,700 --> 00:30:22,700 right? Yes, it is right. 557 00:30:22,700 --> 00:30:25,200 It encourages you to sit in lean back? 558 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,100 Yeah, can't resist the ottoman, right? 559 00:30:27,100 --> 00:30:31,100 Do you have to put your feet up? Do you think you have to use it? 560 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,000 It's just a requirement. You know, no one's read this 561 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,700 requirement. It is the relationship you have 562 00:30:36,700 --> 00:30:39,300 with with the chair and ottoman combination. 563 00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:42,100 Exactly. And I love that the concept for 564 00:30:42,100 --> 00:30:44,300 was. If you could sit in a first 565 00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:50,000 baseman's mitt that opulent cushions but you could settle 566 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,100 down comfortably because of the leather was really great kind of 567 00:30:53,100 --> 00:30:55,900 thing. I remember hearing stories that 568 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,600 Ray and Charles when they were first making the prototypes 569 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,500 Dropped off a couple at friends houses and one was a great 570 00:31:02,500 --> 00:31:05,700 writer for Hollywood scripts and he was asleep when they came 571 00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:09,300 back. It worked so weird. 572 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,100 That's it. No, no greater extent than a 573 00:31:13,108 --> 00:31:14,400 midday nap. Right? 574 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,400 Exactly, exactly. And so we've talked about all of 575 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,100 these positive moments in there but one of the things that we 576 00:31:21,100 --> 00:31:24,200 often have when we're working together and creative teams, is 577 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,600 that moment of creative tension, how did they resolve? 578 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,400 The creative tension through the design and prototype process. 579 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,100 I think for them it is because it's so much was done at the 580 00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:40,700 Prototype process. What I noticed was more like 581 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,700 let's say it was a timeline for an exhibit like Franklin and 582 00:31:43,700 --> 00:31:47,400 Jefferson the world of Franklin and Jefferson so piece of 583 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,700 information were pinned up on it or let's say it's a prototype 584 00:31:50,700 --> 00:31:55,500 for a chair and the shape is getting hold basically you could 585 00:31:55,500 --> 00:32:00,600 see one of them not challenging but saying what is why is this 586 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:05,000 important or what is this doing? And so there was Aspect of why 587 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,900 something was done a certain way and then it was funny, is 588 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,800 nothing ever stopped. Like even after a chair went 589 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,600 into production, part of the reason they like working with 590 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,300 Herman Miller is they could keep honing on it later. 591 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,200 So nothing was finished in some ways. 592 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,800 It's do. I look so you could keep pushing 593 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,700 and challenging things to the end of the days. 594 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,400 So there was a different kind of tension tension to me, comes 595 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,600 from when it's fixed, and that's it, right? 596 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,300 And there's no change after, there was always a moment to 597 00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:39,700 change it later, to do another version to do something. 598 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,000 And the point was, did that next version do? 599 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,700 Well, there's this great story that Charles and Ray would say 600 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,400 which was who is something like if there was, you came up with 601 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,900 an idea. Then the point was is you came 602 00:32:52,900 --> 00:32:56,200 up with more ideas and let's say you come back to the first idea. 603 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,000 You ever had and you're practically weeping because it 604 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,300 was such a simple idea and you just wish you would of it but 605 00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:07,600 because you did those other 29 ideas that is what supports the 606 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,700 first idea and shows how great it is. 607 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,100 Wow. So if you hadn't done that work, 608 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,500 then that informs the first one. Wow. 609 00:33:16,900 --> 00:33:21,200 It's I'll ask this question for you or see anything that you 610 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,800 wish our audience knew about your grandparents that hasn't 611 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,100 been published or is evident to things that you wish that people 612 00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:32,200 would take away. What I want them to know is they 613 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,800 didn't just talk the talk, they actually walk the walk, right? 614 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,400 They when they said to me that I should be able to use every tool 615 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,500 in my studio as well. If not better than the person 616 00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:43,700 are higher, they did that in their own office. 617 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,200 They could take the photograph of the They could develop the 618 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,700 fill, they could do any of those steps, but that meant, that they 619 00:33:50,700 --> 00:33:53,700 were waiting for anybody, right? Which means they could get on 620 00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:56,400 with the work. The other thing is I love this 621 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,700 quote by Charles, which is the most important thing is that you 622 00:33:59,700 --> 00:34:02,100 love what you're doing. And the second that you're not 623 00:34:02,100 --> 00:34:04,400 afraid of where your next ideal will lead. 624 00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:09,300 And I encourage everybody to take that leap, just like they 625 00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:12,800 did. Lisa, that that's incredible. 626 00:34:13,100 --> 00:34:16,100 And I think that's the best way for us to close our conversation 627 00:34:16,100 --> 00:34:18,900 today. That's how those work. 628 00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:22,699 Those words are wonderful. They, I tell you, and that's the 629 00:34:22,699 --> 00:34:25,400 thing is, like, with all their work, whether you're reading 630 00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:29,900 something for Mathematica, the text, it's Sosa saint, but you 631 00:34:29,900 --> 00:34:33,800 reflect on it for days later. And, and even if, when you try 632 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:38,000 to repeat it, that's why I had to write this down because they 633 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,300 each word is carefully. Chosen. 634 00:34:40,699 --> 00:34:44,800 It works off of the other words I always as I said my goal is to 635 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,100 share as much of the original material for you to draw your 636 00:34:48,100 --> 00:34:50,100 own conclusions. And that's what we're doing 637 00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:54,900 today and I think it's powerful and we applaud and I encourage 638 00:34:54,900 --> 00:34:59,000 everyone to dig in and learn more about Ray and Charles Eames 639 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,700 and the work of The Institute of infinite curiosity. 640 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,300 It's really doing some Dynamic projects and a resource for 641 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:12,200 designers problem solvers. And problem creators, right? 642 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,900 And I want everyone to write back to us. 643 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,200 What's another question? We should ask. 644 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,700 What would you like to know more about? 645 00:35:19,700 --> 00:35:22,600 I love doing deep Dives on certain subjects. 646 00:35:22,700 --> 00:35:25,200 Like, I can't wait to do the National Aquarium proposal 647 00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:28,900 because that's where Ray and Charles were trying to focus on 648 00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:32,500 conservation of the oceans and connect that with something you 649 00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:35,300 can't see. So it we call it making the 650 00:35:35,300 --> 00:35:38,200 invisible visible. And so that's one of many 651 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,100 projects that I really look. Or to our being able to dive 652 00:35:41,100 --> 00:35:43,900 deeply. No pun intended for the website 653 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,300 or in person for Papa. Well I'll end where we began 654 00:35:48,300 --> 00:35:54,300 which is eventually everything. Connects people ideas and 655 00:35:54,300 --> 00:35:58,400 objects. Thank you, Lisa, for being proud 656 00:35:58,500 --> 00:36:04,900 esteemed granddaughter, fellow Problem, Solver, Creator maker, 657 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,000 and really incredible, curator and guide, empowering us all to 658 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,600 look at At the example of your grandparents. 659 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,900 As a springboard for us challenging new problems of the 660 00:36:13,900 --> 00:36:16,800 future. Thank you very much Benny. 661 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:21,300 It's been a pleasure talking with you today and thank you all 662 00:36:21,300 --> 00:36:25,600 for listening to this episode of design, adjacent our podcast, 663 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,100 and wish you look at the Nexus of design both today and in this 664 00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:32,200 case, building a better tomorrow. 665 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,300 Thank you. Thank you so much show notes for 666 00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:37,600 this. Episode will be available on AIG 667 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,000 a.org, please. Scribe to our show on anchor 668 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,100 Apple podcasts Google play Spotify or wherever you get your 669 00:36:45,100 --> 00:36:48,200 podcast. Aiga is designed adjacent 670 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,400 podcasts and its contents of the copyright of aiga the 671 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,800 professional association for design All Rights Reserved, any 672 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,500 redistribution or reproduction of part or all of the contents 673 00:37:00,500 --> 00:37:04,200 in any form is prohibited without aig's Express written 674 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,500 permission. My name is Li Xian zhuang until 675 00:37:07,500 --> 00:37:08,100 next time.