1 00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:02,300 Alright, hello and good afternoon. 2 00:00:02,300 --> 00:00:05,400 Good morning, good evening. Wherever you are in the world. 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,800 This is another episode of design future live. 4 00:00:08,900 --> 00:00:12,600 A program of aiga, the professional association for 5 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:14,800 design. My name is Li Xian zhuang 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,300 director of design, content and learning here at aiga. 7 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,300 And if this is your first time tuning into the show, this is 8 00:00:21,300 --> 00:00:25,100 the live show that we Syndicate out and stream to the aiga 9 00:00:25,100 --> 00:00:29,100 design LinkedIn, YouTube. And Facebook pages, you can also 10 00:00:29,100 --> 00:00:31,500 watch this on demand, And so hello of you're watching this 11 00:00:31,500 --> 00:00:34,200 recording at some point in the future and this will also be 12 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:38,200 available on our podcast wherever you get Podcast at AIG 13 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,600 it design you can search for that on the platform of your 14 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:42,800 choice. A little bit about the format. 15 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,200 We have a special guests today and I'll introduce her briefly. 16 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,000 But just a brief pause to save that. 17 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,500 We have a code of conduct here at aiga for this and all of our 18 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,400 other live and online events. Basically keep it full of your 19 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,800 curiosity and kindness and keep it free from harassment and 20 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:01,700 abuse. Used and will be A-Okay. 21 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,300 And I also need to remind you that what we're talking about 22 00:01:05,300 --> 00:01:08,000 today is with a lawyer, a trained professional. 23 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,900 But this is not constituted as any legal or financial advice. 24 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,000 So do consult with your own lawyer and figure that out as we 25 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,100 need to. But this is a great basis, learn 26 00:01:18,100 --> 00:01:20,600 about the broad topics that we have going on today. 27 00:01:20,700 --> 00:01:23,200 So, without further Ado, I will introduce our special guest 28 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,700 today, who is an IP, and digital assets, attorney and advisor to 29 00:01:27,700 --> 00:01:31,300 companies and Brands she works. With NF teas, with the 30 00:01:31,300 --> 00:01:35,800 Multiverse with Dows crypto web 3 and blockchain, it's okay. 31 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,500 If you don't know what all of those terms mean, you might have 32 00:01:38,500 --> 00:01:40,800 heard about them a little bit in the news and what you've been 33 00:01:40,900 --> 00:01:44,100 reading about will cover some of these terms as we go along, so 34 00:01:44,100 --> 00:01:46,000 whatever your level or experience with this. 35 00:01:46,100 --> 00:01:48,500 Hopefully, you'll stick around and listen to our show. 36 00:01:48,700 --> 00:01:51,600 Joanne Holmes is the name of our guest today. 37 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,600 Join homes, Esquire. She goes by Joe, who will also 38 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,900 be doing a workshop next week at the aiga design and business 39 00:01:58,900 --> 00:02:01,700 conference. That's May 4th through 6th 40 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,000 online. Joe will be doing a workshop on 41 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,900 intellectual property and web 3.0. 42 00:02:05,900 --> 00:02:08,800 So we'll go deeper in some of these topics and we'll post a 43 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,800 link to that as well. But in the meantime, let's 44 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,000 welcome Joe and feel free to post your questions. 45 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,100 At any time, I'll be monitoring the chat there. 46 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,300 We'd love to bring in your audience questions as we go 47 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:19,000 along. Joe. 48 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,400 Welcome to the show. My Sean. 49 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,300 Thank you so much for having me. It's really a pleasure to be 50 00:02:24,300 --> 00:02:27,200 here. I am, I am that digital assets 51 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,500 geek. I love all things web 3 and so 52 00:02:29,500 --> 00:02:32,000 it's so A fun to get to speak to the creative Community. 53 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,100 Sure thing. Yeah it's great to have you and 54 00:02:35,300 --> 00:02:38,300 to be fully honest I'm still learning a lot about what these 55 00:02:38,300 --> 00:02:40,900 terms mean. So hopefully we can Define them 56 00:02:40,900 --> 00:02:43,400 a little bit especially for the folks who are still figuring 57 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,600 this stuff out. But as the first question on 58 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,600 your website Holmes out law.com you say that you help Brands and 59 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:55,000 creators develop smart web 3 strategy monetize IP and 60 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,900 negotiate successful deals and we can go into some examples of 61 00:02:58,900 --> 00:03:01,300 what that means. What really stuck out to me? 62 00:03:01,300 --> 00:03:03,900 Was that you also highlighted, it doesn't hurt to have some fun 63 00:03:03,900 --> 00:03:06,500 too. It's love to hear about how this 64 00:03:06,500 --> 00:03:08,400 stuff is fun for you. Where do you see the fun? 65 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,500 And all of these emerging Tech Trends and opportunities? 66 00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:16,000 That's a great question. So I've been an intellectual 67 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,600 property attorney managing assets on a global basis and 68 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:25,900 about 140 countries for decades. And so I come at this, from a 69 00:03:25,900 --> 00:03:30,000 perspective of having had the honor of working with With 70 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,300 Brands and creators and innovators for over 20 years. 71 00:03:34,300 --> 00:03:38,900 And I'm constantly learning. I'm constantly challenged by the 72 00:03:38,900 --> 00:03:42,500 new ways that they think about things and trying to apply the 73 00:03:42,500 --> 00:03:44,800 law to support their goals and objectives. 74 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:51,100 I get to work with really Trend projects from nft creators, 75 00:03:51,100 --> 00:03:54,000 entrepreneurs, building businesses in web three, 76 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,900 innovators finding that coupling between the digital and the 77 00:03:57,900 --> 00:04:03,500 physical and the He that the law moves, much slower than Tech and 78 00:04:03,500 --> 00:04:06,600 Innovation. But the excitement of this space 79 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:12,500 for me in many ways is really web 3 to a broader, Global 80 00:04:12,500 --> 00:04:17,000 audience of people who might not have had access to financial 81 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,500 tools, or marketplaces before to Showcase their talent and 82 00:04:21,500 --> 00:04:26,000 really, creating a space where we can be inclusive and diverse 83 00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:30,300 and create new opportunities. So the innovation ideas Is that 84 00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:32,600 I get to talk to creatives around. 85 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,800 It's just it keeps me on my toes and I'm having fun and seeing 86 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,600 the ways that people in web three are upsetting the 87 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,600 Paradigm. And it's it's no single model. 88 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:48,400 It's very young people to more mature people, and just frankly, 89 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,100 a lot of smart people coming to the space and sharing new ideas. 90 00:04:52,100 --> 00:04:54,900 That's awesome. I love to learn more about some 91 00:04:54,900 --> 00:04:57,200 examples of some of the folks that you've worked with but 92 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,500 maybe we could start with what the existing paradigm. 93 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,300 Is or what the existing dominant Paradigm is. 94 00:05:03,300 --> 00:05:07,000 That's maybe going away or being challenged at least by this nft 95 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:08,700 staff. So for me when you say the 96 00:05:08,700 --> 00:05:14,000 existing Paradigm here maybe the traditional Gallery system with 97 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,300 Gatekeepers primarily in New York and different festivals 98 00:05:17,300 --> 00:05:20,600 that we hear about like the Venice biennale or Art Basel 99 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,700 Miami. These sort of very specific but 100 00:05:23,700 --> 00:05:26,900 also really narrowly defined places where people go and kind 101 00:05:26,900 --> 00:05:29,700 of make it as artists is to sell their pieces. 102 00:05:29,900 --> 00:05:32,900 And it sounds like with NF teas and some of the stuff going on, 103 00:05:32,900 --> 00:05:35,400 there's more of a decentralisation of who can 104 00:05:35,700 --> 00:05:39,600 access audiences and sell their art is that kind of where you're 105 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,000 talking about in terms of upsetting some of these older 106 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,800 paradigms? Absolutely I mean there are 107 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,900 financial paradigms and there are gatekeeper. 108 00:05:49,900 --> 00:05:53,900 So from a financial perspective here in the United States where 109 00:05:53,900 --> 00:05:57,600 you and I are based, as well as globally, there is a significant 110 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,700 component of people who are unbanked who don't have access 111 00:06:01,700 --> 00:06:06,700 to checking accounts or saving accounts or the stock market 112 00:06:06,700 --> 00:06:11,200 that we hear As Americans typically have access to what 113 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,000 that means, is there have not been ways for them to transfer 114 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:20,000 Financial value in exchange for their creativity and exchange 115 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:24,300 for their artwork because cryptocurrency is a platform 116 00:06:24,300 --> 00:06:28,700 that in some ways, remove some of the financial Gatekeepers 117 00:06:29,300 --> 00:06:32,700 that Means that people who have internet access all over the 118 00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:37,800 world can buy cryptocurrency, have their own wallets access 119 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:42,400 Global marketplaces and be able to display their art and that 120 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,100 creates new opportunities to your point. 121 00:06:45,100 --> 00:06:49,700 Whereas if you have an outstanding talent and you build 122 00:06:49,700 --> 00:06:54,400 a community that Community can become your marketing team and 123 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,400 can't out the value of your talent and can also participate 124 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,700 in the wealth accretion. From seeing your talent at the 125 00:07:01,700 --> 00:07:04,900 earliest stages in the value of your artwork increasing. 126 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,700 I think it might be helpful for those who might not have the 127 00:07:07,700 --> 00:07:10,100 foundation around. What is an mft? 128 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:14,400 Just take a moment and Shear. Let's do that for sure. 129 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:15,400 Yeah. Yeah. 130 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:20,300 So and she is, it's really two things on the, one side, from a 131 00:07:20,308 --> 00:07:24,100 digital perspective, it's a deed of ownership or a certificate of 132 00:07:24,100 --> 00:07:27,000 authenticity that's housed on a blockchain. 133 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,500 And what is a blockchain? It's just open. 134 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,600 Our software and their different blockchains there is the 135 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,200 ethereum blockchain Salona near Avalanche. 136 00:07:36,300 --> 00:07:38,600 They're different blockchains but effectively again they're 137 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,700 open source software and so a non fungible token that token 138 00:07:42,700 --> 00:07:46,600 piece is a representation. Again, a deed of ownership and 139 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:52,100 authenticity on a blockchain that token can be connected to 140 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,400 digital and physical assets. So in the conversation that 141 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,300 we're having right now, we're talking about taking that token 142 00:07:58,700 --> 00:08:05,200 and a Meaning it to digital art. And so what that does is it 143 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,700 creates a way in using the blockchain technology to 144 00:08:09,700 --> 00:08:13,200 authenticate that this is a real piece of digital art that came 145 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,900 from a specific Creator. What web to did was we kind of 146 00:08:17,900 --> 00:08:21,600 had that right click save where you could go online and you 147 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,600 could immediately have a digital copy and that took away some of 148 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:30,900 the some of the frankly, the financial value of r. - and so 149 00:08:30,900 --> 00:08:34,400 what web 3 does, is it creates that provenance, you know, if 150 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,600 you were to try to authenticate the Mona Lisa? 151 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,799 For example, there would be professionals in the art world, 152 00:08:41,799 --> 00:08:46,600 who would be able to speak to, this is the chain of title of 153 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,300 this piece of art and authenticate that it is the 154 00:08:49,300 --> 00:08:52,700 actual Mona Lisa. What the blockchain does in web 155 00:08:52,700 --> 00:08:54,600 three is that authentication piece? 156 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,200 It makes it technological. And so those who want to support 157 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,900 an artist or a creator Are able to look through the blockchain 158 00:09:01,900 --> 00:09:05,100 and confirm, that this is an actual piece of authenticated 159 00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:08,700 work that came from that Creator who you want to support and that 160 00:09:08,700 --> 00:09:13,500 gives value back to the Creator and it gives a trust in the 161 00:09:13,500 --> 00:09:16,800 community that they are actually supporting the Creator. 162 00:09:16,900 --> 00:09:21,500 One exciting thing about this is the concept of it to royalties 163 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,300 in web 3 which also allows creators to be able to not only 164 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:29,600 have value in that first sale, but through maintaining sale 165 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,600 Al's on a Marketplace, be able to have recurring secondary 166 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,300 royalties as well. So it's creating some exciting 167 00:09:36,300 --> 00:09:41,300 new opportunities for artists to be able to have ongoing value in 168 00:09:41,300 --> 00:09:45,500 their work and for communities to participate in the financial 169 00:09:45,500 --> 00:09:47,900 appreciation of an artist's work as well. 170 00:09:48,100 --> 00:09:49,800 Yeah, I'd love to highlight a little bit. 171 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,400 Some of what you were talking about the secondary royalty is 172 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,900 because I think that's one of the issues that happens a lot in 173 00:09:55,900 --> 00:09:59,700 traditional art markets or you could be stood any painter from 174 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,200 From the 20th century often, it's not until later in their 175 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,300 lives. Sometimes after they died that 176 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,600 their artwork sells for significant amounts of money, 177 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:09,700 right? So maybe they sold their 178 00:10:09,900 --> 00:10:13,800 painting for 1,000 bucks, but then it goes to auction late in 179 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,700 their life or after they've died and it goes for millions of 180 00:10:16,700 --> 00:10:19,800 dollars and the artists and their Estates don't really see 181 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,900 any of that. If it's a secondary sailrite 182 00:10:22,900 --> 00:10:24,800 it's like the person who bought it for a thousand dollars of 183 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,100 selling it for a million dollars. 184 00:10:26,100 --> 00:10:30,100 And so you're saying that with some of these nft he's on these 185 00:10:30,100 --> 00:10:34,400 contracts on the blockchain. It's possible for artists to get 186 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,700 a cut of these like sales down the line. 187 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,000 Absolutely. That's right. 188 00:10:39,100 --> 00:10:43,600 And it's we are still very early in this technology especially 189 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:48,600 when it comes to in ft's in distribution to communities. 190 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,400 There are a variety of different marketplaces, the marketplaces 191 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:57,000 have different technological functions within their coding 192 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,900 structure. And so there are different Two 193 00:10:59,900 --> 00:11:05,000 calls that will allow for in fps to have Smart contracts, which 194 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:11,400 again is just code and that code can embed a secondary royalty to 195 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,300 the original Creator. There are some issues. 196 00:11:14,300 --> 00:11:16,300 If you're based here in the United States with the 197 00:11:16,300 --> 00:11:19,600 Securities and Exchange Commission around royalties 198 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,900 outside of those attributed to the original Creator. 199 00:11:23,100 --> 00:11:26,200 So there are some Concepts around fractionalization of art, 200 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,100 for example. So if you have an expensive 201 00:11:28,100 --> 00:11:31,600 piece of digital art, There is a concept of French colonization 202 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,600 that could allow several owners who participate in ownership of 203 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,600 one piece of digital art, the Securities and Exchange 204 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,400 Commission has said that they're taking a close, look at that. 205 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:46,200 And they've cued to us that they perceive that to be a security 206 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,500 that would need to be registered, and be appropriately 207 00:11:49,500 --> 00:11:55,000 aligned to the regulatory regime of the SEC, but that sort of 208 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,000 Safe Harbor. If you will still exist within 209 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:03,400 original creator, If that, in Ft continues to be bought and sold 210 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,900 on marketplaces that recognize those secondary royalties. 211 00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:10,700 And again, that's a question of coding, then there is an 212 00:12:10,700 --> 00:12:13,600 opportunity for those artists, so you continue to receive 213 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,800 royalties on resales. So, when I would say to folks 214 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:22,000 who are thinking about royalties and secondary sales is take some 215 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,200 time to educate yourself on the market places that are going to 216 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:29,100 allow for that in sales are happening, peer to peer through 217 00:12:29,100 --> 00:12:31,500 private. Wallets then that secondary 218 00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:35,000 sales Roti is going to drop off. And one of the reasons for that 219 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:39,500 is think about, you know, if I own an inn ft and I want to gift 220 00:12:39,500 --> 00:12:43,400 it to you and then I may not want to have to add in a 221 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:48,100 secondary layer of sale or a royalty back to the Creator, or 222 00:12:48,100 --> 00:12:50,900 I could have several digital wallets of my own. 223 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,900 And if I'm transferring it from one of my digital wallets to 224 00:12:53,900 --> 00:12:57,400 another, then it wouldn't necessarily make sense for me to 225 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,700 need to pay a Realty on Transfer of my personal wallets. 226 00:13:01,900 --> 00:13:05,700 So it is, it is still nascent in terms of the technology 227 00:13:05,700 --> 00:13:08,400 development but the opportunities there are very 228 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,200 promising for creators, that's awesome. 229 00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:14,300 Thank you for that short answer that preview. 230 00:13:14,300 --> 00:13:17,500 I wanted to do a quick reset for folks who are just joining us on 231 00:13:17,700 --> 00:13:20,900 the live stream, I am here live with Joanne homes. 232 00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:24,500 Joe is an IP and digital assets attorney and advisor to 233 00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:28,200 companies and Brands and issues like nft as the metaverse Dows 234 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,800 crypto web. Re and blockchain also wanted to 235 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,400 acknowledge some of our audience members and Torah was them 236 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,300 really valuable points. Thank you for spreading 237 00:13:37,300 --> 00:13:39,300 knowledge. On this important subject. 238 00:13:39,300 --> 00:13:42,400 Sarah was saying, very glad to have information on this, many 239 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,300 artists, always short sell themselves, let's change that. 240 00:13:45,300 --> 00:13:48,300 And I think one part of that is working with a lawyer who can 241 00:13:48,300 --> 00:13:52,000 help you navigate this. And we also have Martin who has 242 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,400 our first audience question. Martin wants to know what is the 243 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,500 process for a Creator to add a token to their art and how do 244 00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:01,200 they track usage? Now, that's a very big and 245 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,300 general question. But how can we approach that 246 00:14:03,300 --> 00:14:06,400 now? Yeah, this gets us back into the 247 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:11,600 guise of the SEC. Unfortunately, right now, from a 248 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:16,100 regulatory perspective there's a lot of gray space around 249 00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:20,800 tokenization. One of the areas where there's a 250 00:14:20,808 --> 00:14:23,400 natural thinner. G is thinking about, for 251 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,100 example, in FTS building a community and dowels. 252 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:32,200 So in ft's are sometimes used, For fundraising purposes to sell 253 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,400 a collection. So that a Creator can score a 254 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,400 certain objective with a community. 255 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,800 That might be organized as a Dau. 256 00:14:40,900 --> 00:14:45,400 So let's say you sell and what's popular right now is a 10,000 257 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:50,400 piece collection of digital art and some component of that goes 258 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,000 into, a dow treasury, to be able to support a charitable 259 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:58,200 objective or something else that the community believes in wants 260 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,500 to support. So, There was a time frame and 261 00:15:01,500 --> 00:15:06,100 are still relatively young web three ecosystem where there was 262 00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:09,700 a lot of token issuance and that got quite a bit of scrutiny 263 00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:12,200 again from the Securities and Exchange Commission. 264 00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:18,100 What tokens look like. Now that tend to be on the safer 265 00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:21,100 side of things and again this is something that we require a 266 00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:24,300 close evaluation slam a Securities and fundraising 267 00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:28,200 attorney. But what looks like a safer 268 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:29,300 brand? Is that? 269 00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:31,400 Okay? In that, for example, allows Dow 270 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,200 community members to participate in governance of that data 271 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,100 associated with the Creator's in ft's that gives social benefit. 272 00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:43,000 So for example, you might be able to if you were in nft 273 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:47,900 holder or a dow token holder, be able to have access to certain 274 00:15:47,900 --> 00:15:51,000 rooms within a Discord or certain Live Events. 275 00:15:51,700 --> 00:15:55,100 There might also be a benefit to, so maybe you get access to 276 00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:59,600 be able to buy products or Services by virtue of being a 277 00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:03,700 Holder when that token starts to have a financial value and 278 00:16:03,700 --> 00:16:08,300 particularly, if the leaders of a dowel or the creator of an mft 279 00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:12,500 start to speak to past or future financial success. 280 00:16:12,700 --> 00:16:16,600 Associated with a project again that starts to get into some 281 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,400 rookies face in terms of whether the SEC is going to have a 282 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,900 focused around that. So again to try to give some 283 00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:26,200 guidance around a token, if the token is focused around 284 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:33,900 governance social benefit Or access to community benefits 285 00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:39,300 that or products or Services. All of those are closer to the 286 00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:42,300 safer side of things. That is not a blanket statement 287 00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:46,300 that that's always going to give you cover from the SEC because 288 00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:50,400 especially when there starts to be a market for those tokens and 289 00:16:50,408 --> 00:16:53,500 we're still again in that gray area, but in a tease are 290 00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:55,400 definitely used for fundraising purposes. 291 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,600 Associated with dowels and down members can absolutely 292 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,000 participate. Governance of that organization 293 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,000 and certain objectives that we're going ization supporting 294 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,400 an artist might want to achieve, right? 295 00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:10,300 So just to sum up a little bit of what I've heard so far and 296 00:17:10,300 --> 00:17:15,599 nft can act as like a deed of ownership of something, it can 297 00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:19,500 validate the authenticity of that asset that you own, but 298 00:17:19,500 --> 00:17:22,200 you're saying that it can also be like a key or like a badge at 299 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,400 a conference, right? Of like it gives you access to 300 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,700 the VIP space or it like gets you access to the lounge kind of 301 00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:30,100 thing. You've also mentioned Dow's and 302 00:17:30,100 --> 00:17:32,200 I want to make sure everyone's on the same page there, so 303 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,200 downstairs for decentralized, autonomous organization. 304 00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:38,700 And for my understanding it's sort of like a co-op, right? 305 00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:41,100 We're different people have different abilities to make 306 00:17:41,100 --> 00:17:44,200 decisions and vote on things that are both the rules as well 307 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,100 as the code for how this operates online. 308 00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:50,800 Can you tell us more about dowse for folks who are new to this 309 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:52,300 term? Sure. 310 00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:58,800 So Downs are a great opportunity for groups of people to come 311 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,700 together around. And a given purpose, sometimes 312 00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:06,000 that might be a social dowel or a dowel for a particular purpose 313 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,300 of supporting a Creator, sometimes it might be for 314 00:18:10,300 --> 00:18:13,100 investing purpose. Sometimes it might be for a 315 00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:17,700 grant purpose to try to build out an ecosystem on blockchain, 316 00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:22,600 for example, for charitable purposes for product or service 317 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,200 offering purposes. There are any number of reasons 318 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,100 why I doubted my come together and there's been an evolution in 319 00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:32,600 the down Space. So you know it's hard to say old 320 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,600 school when where a lot of us have been in this web three 321 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,600 states for, you know, just a couple of years, you're an old G 322 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,700 if you've been arrested for two years but one of the things that 323 00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:48,100 I would say is that the earlier concept of a doubt as you spoke 324 00:18:48,100 --> 00:18:52,000 to LaShawn is a decentralized autonomous organization. 325 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,100 So that means there's not a traditional corporate structure 326 00:18:56,100 --> 00:19:00,200 where there's a hierarchy of leadership that it's Smart 327 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:07,200 contract driven, where you set the code to be able to govern 328 00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:12,600 aspects of the organization, and that's the autonomous piece of 329 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,700 it. So, the decentralized pieces 330 00:19:15,100 --> 00:19:17,900 membership-based, that's not hierarchical. 331 00:19:17,900 --> 00:19:20,000 And that membership could be Global. 332 00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:26,800 The autonomous is smart contract and code driven management of 333 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,100 the organization. So that's the early Other side 334 00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:35,400 of death as the evolution of dows is less decentralized and 335 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,200 less autonomous and more flexible and member-driven. 336 00:19:38,300 --> 00:19:39,900 And so, what does that look like? 337 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,000 That looks like the reality is that typically you need a 338 00:19:44,008 --> 00:19:47,300 nucleus of leaders who are going to drive the mission of an 339 00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:52,200 organization to establish it and to help educate people about the 340 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,900 goals. So, you have a core group of 341 00:19:55,900 --> 00:20:01,400 members who often times now and Dallas are Who are driving it to 342 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,200 try to get it to a point where it can be decentralized and 343 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,100 member managed. It's also not necessarily smart 344 00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:10,700 kind of track driven. There are opportunities for 345 00:20:10,700 --> 00:20:14,300 members to vote and just like in a traditional Corporation, the 346 00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:16,900 reality is people have a lot of things going on. 347 00:20:16,900 --> 00:20:20,700 So you might be a shareholder in apple, but do you really take 348 00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:24,800 the opportunity to vote on those things that are put before the 349 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,600 shareholders of Apple Corporation? 350 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,100 A lot of those shareholders? Don't vote. 351 00:20:30,100 --> 00:20:33,300 And so we're seeing some of those same things in dowels 352 00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:38,300 where what's happening is that pods or guilds are being 353 00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:40,600 separated out. So that people who have subject 354 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,900 matter expertise in a, what would be a department in a 355 00:20:44,908 --> 00:20:48,400 company, have the opportunity to be able to move forward 356 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,200 objectives within a Dau and still vote. 357 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,500 And some of that voting is happening in a web to setting so 358 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:57,300 that you don't have transaction fees to worry about it. 359 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,700 And some of the more significant components are It on with a 360 00:21:00,700 --> 00:21:05,400 blockchain confirmation. So dowels are very early stage, 361 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,900 rethinking of traditional corporations for any number of 362 00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:15,900 social Financial public, good focused objectives, and there is 363 00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:20,300 very much, a legal overlaid. Our governments are thinking 364 00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:23,400 about taxation, they're thinking about employment law. 365 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:28,600 There are aspects of around the Judiciary duties, if you're down 366 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:33,300 in, doesn't have a A company like LLC or corporate rapper or 367 00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:38,700 some sort of non US, based kind of entity representation, then 368 00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:41,700 you fall back to a general partnership, which means all the 369 00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:46,100 data members that the treasury managers, the leadership of the 370 00:21:46,100 --> 00:21:48,100 Dow could have personal liability. 371 00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:50,900 I mean, your house and your car, in your bank account, could be 372 00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:52,800 at risk. So, there are a number of legal 373 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,900 issues, impacting dowse, just like there are legal issues, 374 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,600 largely from a trademark copyright in Perspective that 375 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,100 impact in FTS which is one of the reasons why it's a good idea 376 00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:06,400 to have a relationship with an attorney to help guide you 377 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,300 through some of those things. And for me as an attorney is 378 00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:13,200 really a balancing act between making sure that people have 379 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,300 been information around how the law impacts what they're 380 00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:19,400 developing but not stifling that Innovation. 381 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,300 Yeah that's a great point about working with an attorney for 382 00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:27,700 this at what point should somebody start building that 383 00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:29,400 relationship and reaching out to an? 384 00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:32,100 Me if they're a Creator and the ready to put themselves out 385 00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:35,600 there or they're ready to join. Add our one of these Discord 386 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,200 communities where there are creators involved in, they want 387 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,000 to invest like and either side of that the Creator side or the 388 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,400 investor side. Like, what point should somebody 389 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,100 really think about? Okay before I could do anything 390 00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:48,200 big? Let me talk to a lawyer. 391 00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:53,000 So from an investor side mean be helpful to step back. 392 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,500 Once again, a tentpole understanding of what is web 393 00:22:57,500 --> 00:23:00,500 three I see. As five things. 394 00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:04,400 Do you got pick your currency which is the, the monetary layer 395 00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:07,700 of what causes blockchains to be able to move. 396 00:23:07,700 --> 00:23:11,300 When when someone sells in nft and someone buys an and 397 00:23:11,300 --> 00:23:13,900 achieved, there is a transaction happening there. 398 00:23:13,900 --> 00:23:16,400 Just like, if you go into a store and you buy a loaf of 399 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,400 bread, there's a transaction happening there. 400 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,900 The current me that supports that is, excuse me. 401 00:23:22,900 --> 00:23:27,900 Going to be, you know, ether. So Lori Bitcoin. 402 00:23:27,900 --> 00:23:31,300 It's going to be or Stable planes, which are the 403 00:23:31,300 --> 00:23:35,700 cryptocurrency equivalent of Fiat like a u.s. dollar or Euro. 404 00:23:35,900 --> 00:23:40,700 So there's a real Baseline understanding of cryptocurrency 405 00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:45,000 which to facilitate transactions in web three cryptocurrency is 406 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,400 that monetary unit that we're using. 407 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,600 So that's the first temple is cryptocurrency. 408 00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:52,500 The second is default or decentralized Finance. 409 00:23:52,700 --> 00:23:56,300 Just like you can put up collateral to get a loan or you 410 00:23:56,300 --> 00:23:59,400 can get a CD or have a savings account. 411 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,300 It's going to yield money from it. 412 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,700 We have a whole Eco Financial ecosystem in 13, that is called 413 00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:08,800 D Phi. And so that's the second temple. 414 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,300 A third Temple is in at ease again on fungible tokens and 415 00:24:13,900 --> 00:24:17,300 there's that again, there's that token side, which is a 416 00:24:17,300 --> 00:24:20,100 representation of ownership on the blockchain, that's attached 417 00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:24,200 to a digital or physical aspect. That's number three. 418 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,600 Number four is Dows, which we started talking about when 419 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,300 there's a real Synergy between in activities and do. 420 00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:33,100 Owls, and the reason being because in ft's, especially if 421 00:24:33,100 --> 00:24:36,500 you have a collection really ends up being building out of a 422 00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:38,900 community. And the way that communities are 423 00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:41,500 represented in web three is through dowels. 424 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,000 And then the fifth and final tent full is the members, which 425 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,700 is, oh, gosh, lots of people Define this, you different ways, 426 00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:53,800 but the metaverse in many ways is right now, A meshing of web 427 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,500 to and web, three from a web to perspective. 428 00:24:56,500 --> 00:24:59,400 It might look like Roblox or Minecraft where you're building. 429 00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:03,400 The digital world and web three might look like decentraland 430 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,600 where the sandbox or axi infinity or any number of gaming 431 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,500 opportunities where you are using the blockchain to be able 432 00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:17,300 to build that Virtual Worlds and realities within FTS as assets 433 00:25:17,300 --> 00:25:19,300 within those. So, a key way that you would 434 00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:23,800 distinguish web three gaming and the metaverse for example is 435 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:29,600 that those skins and in-game assets that you might have in Of 436 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,400 Warcraft or other other web to gaming, where if you walk away 437 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,500 from the game and you effectively walk away from the 438 00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:40,100 aspect that you built up in web 3, those assets can be 439 00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:43,400 interoperable. We're moving towards this, as an 440 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,900 opportunity, to break those assets to go, from one game to 441 00:25:46,900 --> 00:25:51,300 another and for you to be able to sell those assets and, and 442 00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:54,400 maintain that value in a way that you couldn't in web to 443 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,800 gaming. And so, those are the five tent 444 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,600 poles if you will, from my perspective, Of web, 30. 445 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:06,400 And when we think about the ways that creators can participate in 446 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,900 this space, I mean the opportunities are really endless 447 00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:15,300 in terms of gaming, in terms of helping Brands, think through 448 00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:18,800 how they can have a meaningful presence in this space in terms 449 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,800 of creating assets that you can maintain some again, going back 450 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,400 to the Realty, some facet of ownership around. 451 00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:29,100 So I just want to step back and give that perspective and I will 452 00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:32,100 ask you to remind me of what your question was when you saw 453 00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:43,800 because I got ya if you want to get into the nft space at what 454 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,600 point should you consider working with the lathe? 455 00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:52,200 Yeah okay so for in ft's it's really helpful I think to 456 00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:58,000 consider what you want to offer in terms of your talent and in 457 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,700 terms of your community, So there's a concept of roadmapping 458 00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:06,000 and white paper, we're at the very earliest stages you're 459 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,400 thinking through, what will the Journey of the experience for my 460 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,300 community look like so that might look like you as a Creator 461 00:27:15,300 --> 00:27:18,800 putting out. One of one works where it's not 462 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,800 a collection. They are bespoke discrete units 463 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,400 of your work, right? And that's perfectly fine. 464 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,800 And within the guise of your right, as an artist, you might 465 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,300 instead say, I want to have A collection. 466 00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:33,000 And so, if you want to have a collection, then the question 467 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,800 becomes, what do you want the relationship to your community 468 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,900 of those collectors to look like if we use some of the popular 469 00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:46,000 examples of Boss, babes, or world of women or women, rise, 470 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,000 right. Those are 10,000 piece 471 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,700 collections. Were you really building out a 472 00:27:50,708 --> 00:27:53,600 community? And what that Community is going 473 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,300 to come to expect is, what does our intellectual property and 474 00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:01,100 commercialization, right? Look like So each of those that 475 00:28:01,100 --> 00:28:05,100 I need world of women, boss, faves, women rise, those are 476 00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:08,000 Brands. Just like Disney is a brand. 477 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,800 Just like born a piak club or crypto Punk's have come to be 478 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,100 acknowledged as very meaningful Brands. 479 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,100 So you want to think about working with an attorney to be 480 00:28:18,100 --> 00:28:21,500 mindful of whether your brand might be stepping on someone 481 00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:23,900 else's toes, that's called trademark clearance. 482 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,200 And then affirmatively thinking about how do you get protection 483 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:29,600 with? Let's say, for example, Will the 484 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,300 u.s. trademark office for your brand name, so that you can lock 485 00:28:33,300 --> 00:28:36,200 up the ownership rates in that asset, right? 486 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,200 And the brand is one piece of Ip that you might want to retain 487 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,100 ownership around. The second piece is copyright. 488 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,400 And so in the United States to register a copyright for a 489 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,100 creative work cost, less than $100. 490 00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:53,700 And what that gives you as a Creator is the right to be able 491 00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:58,000 to sue for infringement, get reimbursement of your attorneys 492 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,400 fees. If someone has a Just your work 493 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,200 and then you also want to thank from a contract perspective. 494 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,300 What set of rights do I want to get? 495 00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:10,000 So what's really exciting and fun to me as in an electoral 496 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,000 property? Attorney who helps my clients 497 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,800 monetize, their assets, including their digital assets 498 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,100 has historically, we had the Disney Model, A centralized 499 00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:22,900 ownership and control everything was locked up and manage and you 500 00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:26,100 really putting yourself in Jeopardy, even to create fan art 501 00:29:26,100 --> 00:29:30,000 without their permission. We really thought Spectrum. 502 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,500 Now from the Disney model to the crypto kitties example, that 503 00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:40,300 came into notoriety in the 2017 2018 range where Dapper Labs 504 00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:44,100 really started a new more generous perspective where you 505 00:29:44,100 --> 00:29:47,600 could take the crypto Kitty, you bought and go put it on 506 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,100 merchandise and sell that up to a hundred thousand dollars and 507 00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:54,700 you didn't know Dapper Labs, anything for you, taking your 508 00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:58,200 nft and commercializing it, then we move further down the 509 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,100 Spectrum to sort of the And world of women or board ape 510 00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:05,500 Yacht Club example where there's an even broader right to 511 00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:08,100 commercialize. If you're in Ft owner where 512 00:30:08,100 --> 00:30:10,400 there's no commercial chat on it, right? 513 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,000 And then you've got the farthest end of the spectrum with a 514 00:30:13,008 --> 00:30:16,600 project like nouns where it's Creative, Commons 0. 515 00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:22,700 And those who purchase that, they're not subject to a license 516 00:30:22,700 --> 00:30:27,400 that could be revoked. They are free to go out and do 517 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,900 whatever they like to do with that. 518 00:30:28,900 --> 00:30:32,000 That keep in mind, we've got three types of long. 519 00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:35,200 We've got the trademark for the brand name again, like Gordon 520 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,800 Yacht Club. We've got the copyright in the 521 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,900 presentation of the creative work, and then we've got the 522 00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:44,200 contractor license that tells the buyers what they can do with 523 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,600 what they got. And then the absence of that 524 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,900 license you as an mft buyer, only have the right to privately 525 00:30:51,900 --> 00:30:56,600 display that artwork basically in your home and to resell it. 526 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,000 So to answer your question around, when does it Extends to 527 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,400 get an attorney involved. It's when you're thinking about 528 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,100 what rights do you want to retain as a Creator? 529 00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:08,000 And what rights do you want to share? 530 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,900 And what kind of community of you are going trying to build 531 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,800 because again that Community can be your marketing team. 532 00:31:13,900 --> 00:31:17,200 But they tend to want to have an ownership stake in that work and 533 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,700 finding that balance is worth speaking to an attorney. 534 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,500 Thank you so much sudden. Now we're at the time for our 535 00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:27,200 final question to let the audience know again, Joe is 536 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,900 doing a workshop next week. On intellectual property and web 537 00:31:31,100 --> 00:31:34,100 and web 3.0 at the aiga design and business conference. 538 00:31:34,100 --> 00:31:37,200 That's met four through six that's online. 539 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,700 And will be recorded as well as though it's Wednesday through 540 00:31:39,700 --> 00:31:43,400 Friday next week. And that's a longer say it's 541 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,600 like to and it's like two hours or three almost 3 hours. 542 00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:50,200 So we can go much further in depth for that but maybe just as 543 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,500 the final question. Can you tease a little bit of 544 00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:54,200 some of the things that we'll talk about? 545 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,200 And then just also let folks know where they can find you 546 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:58,700 online and we'll take it out from there? 547 00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:02,300 So, What we're going to talk about and focus on next week, is 548 00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:05,900 really going to be an activities for the creative Community. 549 00:32:06,700 --> 00:32:11,400 I have advised clients literally from the startup stage all the 550 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,800 way through multi-billion dollar organizations. 551 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,400 And so I really want to First help people understand how to 552 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,800 protect themselves from a legal perspective go in depth around. 553 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:27,400 What is in nft, how would you go about renting, one of the types 554 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,200 of legal issues that are going to impact? 555 00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:33,000 Fact that and we will talk a little bit, although the focus 556 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,500 will not be around dowels with the metaverse. 557 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,200 But what I love to do is have collaborative conversations. 558 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,600 And so for anyone who joins us next week, I would invite me 559 00:32:42,608 --> 00:32:45,400 when I encourage you to come with your questions, come with 560 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,600 your real world examples. I won't be able to give legal 561 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,900 advice, but I will be able to help you think through the ways 562 00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:55,800 that I imagine these issues, the ways that I anticipate, the law 563 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,200 will impact projects, and I'd love to have real time. 564 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,100 Interaction. So I encourage anyone who has an 565 00:33:02,100 --> 00:33:04,300 interest in this space to come with your questions, and let's 566 00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:06,600 work it through next week. Awesome, thank you so much. 567 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,300 I'm looking forward to it. I'll be there hosting 568 00:33:09,300 --> 00:33:12,800 co-hosting, it as well with Joe to facilitate your questions 569 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,600 next week. So looking forward to seeing 570 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,400 Folks at the aiga design and business conference. 571 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,400 And that was it for today. Thanks for tuning in life. 572 00:33:20,700 --> 00:33:24,400 Oh yeah, yes, no, no worries. Sorry, I just kept going. 573 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,300 Where can folks find you online? It's actually got here on 574 00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:29,900 LinkedIn. Is a great Great place to 575 00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:33,000 connect. I'm active on LinkedIn left, 576 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,400 active, but somewhat so on Twitter, homes, that law is my 577 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:41,600 handle there, and the website is homes H 0l in the S ATL. 578 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,500 Aw, so please connect with me, I love to talk to folks about 579 00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:47,800 projects and I'm happy to make connections. 580 00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:50,800 Awesome homes out Lon Joanne homes. 581 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,700 Thank you so much again. And looking forward to next 582 00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:54,700 week. See you later.