1 00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:02,300 Hello and good evening, everyone. 2 00:00:02,300 --> 00:00:04,900 Or good afternoon. Good morning wherever you are in 3 00:00:04,900 --> 00:00:07,400 the world. Welcome, my name is Li Xian 4 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,200 zhuang. I am director of design content 5 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:14,100 and learning here at aiga, the professional association for 6 00:00:14,100 --> 00:00:16,300 design. I am joined today by our very 7 00:00:16,300 --> 00:00:19,200 special. Guest designer author, educator 8 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,900 eonline, mm, who is tuning in from Tokyo, Japan. 9 00:00:23,900 --> 00:00:27,900 So we have a truly International transcontinental program 10 00:00:27,900 --> 00:00:30,200 tonight. Ian is going to be talking About 11 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,800 his book, The impossibility of Silence, which is a book for 12 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,600 artists designers, photographers, and other 13 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,700 creative practitioners interested in approaching 14 00:00:38,700 --> 00:00:43,200 writing about our vocation and culture a little bit more about 15 00:00:43,300 --> 00:00:44,700 Ian. And then I'll hand it over to 16 00:00:44,700 --> 00:00:46,400 him. He's prepared a presentation. 17 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,800 And then we'll take your questions in the Q&A at the end 18 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,500 of this. As I already mentioned, Ian is a 19 00:00:52,500 --> 00:00:54,300 designer. He works at the intersection of 20 00:00:54,300 --> 00:00:58,200 graphic, design design education and designed research, he's 21 00:00:58,200 --> 00:00:59,900 faculty at Temple University, Japan. 22 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,600 And as well as Vermont College of the Arts and is also a 23 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,600 visiting critic at the California Institute of the Arts 24 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,900 calarts and he runs a studio in Tokyo called the end line of 25 00:01:10,900 --> 00:01:13,200 designs. You can check him out online. 26 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,500 And then a bit about the book before you hear it from in 27 00:01:16,500 --> 00:01:20,400 himself, he wrote in the forward to the book. 28 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,200 I thought I'd highlight something and just read it off. 29 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,400 But he described this book as and I quote from him, this is a 30 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,600 book with for reality at its core. 31 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,500 As I feel That it is the heart of writing and to paraphrase. 32 00:01:32,500 --> 00:01:37,200 Somebody else writing is a word for the meeting place of the 33 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:41,200 private and the public, the internal and the external. 34 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,300 So I thought that was just a really powerful way to open the 35 00:01:45,300 --> 00:01:50,200 book and as somebody, who's often a tortured writer myself, 36 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,000 I really got a lot out of the book. 37 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,600 Just learning more about Ian, how he wove in Memoir with some 38 00:01:57,700 --> 00:02:02,000 philosophical musings about the Of writing and so, without 39 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:03,800 further Ado, I'll turn it over to Ian. 40 00:02:03,900 --> 00:02:06,200 Thank you. That was really nice. 41 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:08,000 Here we go. This is the thing. 42 00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:12,900 Hopefully, you all can see this. So, this is the book that I'm 43 00:02:12,900 --> 00:02:15,200 talking about today. It's called, as we can see the 44 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,600 impossibility of Silence writing for designers artists and 45 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,900 photographers. It came out around a year ago 46 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,000 and it's been doing great. Thankfully, it's a book about 47 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:32,200 writing and how to write it started out as an extension of 48 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,000 another thing that I wrote. So this is azim that came out in 49 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,200 2016 called start somewhere, a handbook of dubious exercises, 50 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,000 tips, and rants about becoming a designer who writes. 51 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,000 So I came up with this idea of randomly for the Z and I thought 52 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,400 it'd be fun. So we wrote it designed it. 53 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,300 So that seventy six pages and I ran off 25 copies at the school 54 00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:57,500 where I teach Temple University Japan, I folded them, they 55 00:02:57,500 --> 00:03:00,300 stapled them. Then I posted about the Z in 56 00:03:00,300 --> 00:03:06,000 online and on social media and I was really surprised it did so 57 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,600 well, that I had very, very quickly make an offset printed 58 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,800 version of this IAM because they sold at a good clip. 59 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,400 I had no clue that this Zine about writing for designers, we 60 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,400 have legs or would get any kind of traction, but it did. 61 00:03:22,100 --> 00:03:29,000 So, during the very, very, very start of the pandemic, I was 62 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,100 reading a book about how to write, which is the book of bird 63 00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:35,800 by Bird by Anne lamott. It was given to me by my friend 64 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,400 Kelsey gray designer and teacher who lives in Austin Texas. 65 00:03:40,100 --> 00:03:44,900 And I was in the state's lecturing and I came back to 66 00:03:44,900 --> 00:03:49,300 Tokyo and I was reading Bird by bird and it's a really good kind 67 00:03:49,300 --> 00:03:51,800 of like how to book. Now I've read a lot of these 68 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,500 kinds of books. See, my dad is a writer too and 69 00:03:55,500 --> 00:03:57,800 he's got a whole book case full of these kind of books. 70 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,800 So whenever I And then my mom, I read a handful of these books 71 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,500 actually speed read them and that kind of note the best ideas 72 00:04:04,500 --> 00:04:07,800 within. But of course, most of the best 73 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,200 ideas about writing come from this book. 74 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,800 The Elements of Style by Strunk and white, but there are other 75 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,899 ones which are goes, but as far as writing for designers goes, 76 00:04:18,500 --> 00:04:22,700 there was only one good book on the market, which is writing for 77 00:04:22,700 --> 00:04:25,600 the design Mind by Natalya Ilene. 78 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,000 So Natalia has a colleague of mine, which each Other at 79 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,700 Vermont College of Fine Arts in the MFA and graphic design 80 00:04:31,700 --> 00:04:36,100 program and she's a dear dear, dear friend Natalia is someone 81 00:04:36,100 --> 00:04:39,300 who's really good at structural writing. 82 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,100 So we see an example of this on the left. 83 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,800 Basically, you create a metaphorical architectural 84 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,600 structure out of your ideas and you construct a piece of writing 85 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:54,400 methodically, ensuring that your entire piece of writing, as 86 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,300 architecture is sound, My Approach is rather different. 87 00:04:59,100 --> 00:05:01,400 I have to figure out a thesis for piece of writing and then I 88 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,500 kind of right around it, until it becomes more whole. 89 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,500 And then I approach structure later for folks that are more 90 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:10,500 for folks who are more analytical. 91 00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:13,500 And rational Natalya's approach is great for folks that are more 92 00:05:13,500 --> 00:05:17,200 heuristic and inclined to the poetic or emotional, my Approach 93 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,500 might work actually right in the structural way that Natalia 94 00:05:20,500 --> 00:05:23,900 proposes when I'm writing design history or academic criticism, 95 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,800 but I have my own way when I'm writing pretty much Else. 96 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,600 So as Azores Eames or this book that I'm talking about and I 97 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:36,700 talked about this process within, I should mention that I 98 00:05:36,700 --> 00:05:39,800 wrote this book during the first wave of the global pandemic. 99 00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:42,900 So as I mentioned, they returned to Tokyo from lecturing before 100 00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:46,200 Japan closed its borders and right at the beginning of my 101 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,700 month, long break before summer semester at Temple University, 102 00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:52,200 Japan. I got the idea that maybe I 103 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,600 could write a Zine about writing basically a follow-up to start 104 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,600 somewhere. So I thought this thing was 105 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,700 going to be a Zine and not a book, which really speaks to the 106 00:06:00,700 --> 00:06:05,200 power of under scoping. A project ziens are relatively 107 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,800 short but a short book like mine isn't that much longer. 108 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,600 So as you can see here it's more than triple the amount of pages 109 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,200 and words and if you think about it like, you know, kind of basic 110 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,800 essays between 1,000 and 3,000 words. 111 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,300 So that's a good way to gauge the amount of writing that goes 112 00:06:20,300 --> 00:06:24,900 into a z-score a book. So, I have my idea a piece of 113 00:06:24,900 --> 00:06:27,500 writing about writing for designers, but I wanted to 114 00:06:27,500 --> 00:06:32,200 include some other stuff I thought about other books, that 115 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,000 I think are great for different reasons. 116 00:06:34,100 --> 00:06:38,400 What I call totems AKA conceptual and stylistic tent 117 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:43,400 poles for a project, Leonard Koren wrote this book, wabi-sabi 118 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,200 for artists designers poets and philosophers, which is a really 119 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,100 short book about embracing imperfection and mr. 120 00:06:51,100 --> 00:06:54,400 Corn has sold a lot of these books and I really liked his 121 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,500 idea of targeting multiple audiences just within the title 122 00:06:57,500 --> 00:07:00,300 alone. So that was the inspiration for 123 00:07:00,300 --> 00:07:02,800 the subtitle of my book, being for Creative folks. 124 00:07:02,900 --> 00:07:06,800 Other than just designers, The substance of Style by a 125 00:07:06,808 --> 00:07:11,500 Virginia, pastoral is one of the most important books of the 126 00:07:11,500 --> 00:07:15,600 early 2000s. It is both a really Breezy book 127 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:22,700 about style, but it also has some pretty important critical 128 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:25,800 edges to it, but it also has its kind of real beach reading. 129 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,200 Kind of feel to it. So I wanted some of that in 130 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,800 there. I really love Carl Wilson's 131 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,300 book. Let's talk about love. 132 00:07:33,500 --> 00:07:37,700 It's a bitingly acerbic book about the evaluation of taste as 133 00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:40,500 viewed through the musical output of Celine Dion and I 134 00:07:40,508 --> 00:07:42,800 really love how we set up the thesis of that book, it's both 135 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,100 super personal and really philosophical. 136 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,300 So it was really, it's really like micro macro. 137 00:07:48,300 --> 00:07:50,000 So I wanted a bit of that in there. 138 00:07:50,900 --> 00:07:53,800 Plus, I love this book, I wear the black hat by Chuck 139 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,600 Klosterman, which is an analysis of good evil, and the role of 140 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,100 the villain in contemporary Society. 141 00:07:59,300 --> 00:08:01,500 Be so close been really weaves it. 142 00:08:01,700 --> 00:08:05,100 Like a mix of like pop music, philosophy, history, and some 143 00:08:05,100 --> 00:08:09,200 sports together in his writing and by looking at these books, 144 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,600 again, I got a sense of what kind of thing this record is 145 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:14,800 what turned into this book. Might be. 146 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:21,000 I also started thinking about Joseph Campbell's notion of the 147 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,700 monomyth often called the hero's journey. 148 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,300 So here we see an example of the hero's journey. 149 00:08:27,700 --> 00:08:30,500 This is the kind of narrative Sure that underlies. 150 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,100 A lot of, you know, epic writing. 151 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,700 So for example, the Lord of the Rings, So basically you have a 152 00:08:37,700 --> 00:08:41,500 hero they go on an adventure, there's some form of death and 153 00:08:41,500 --> 00:08:46,200 rebirth and basically they returned home changed and it's a 154 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,700 really great idea for fiction. But it doesn't really work super 155 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:54,600 well for most design-oriented writing, because the Practical 156 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:59,000 and pragmatic nature of a lot of Art and Design, writing, doesn't 157 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:05,100 mold itself to an epic Saga, per se However, there are characters 158 00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:09,700 and objects in Campbell's model, which are really helpful for 159 00:09:09,700 --> 00:09:13,400 writing about Art and Design. So here we have some archetypes. 160 00:09:13,500 --> 00:09:16,400 So we've got a mentor, there's a helper. 161 00:09:17,700 --> 00:09:21,400 There's a foil someone who acts like an enemy and comes across 162 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,400 like an enemy, but isn't an enemy, you know, people. 163 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:26,800 Most people want to have mentors. 164 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,700 That's a big thing. Then there are also metaphorical 165 00:09:29,700 --> 00:09:33,600 objects such as on the left here, the gift Talk to myself, 166 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:34,700 perhaps. I might explode. 167 00:09:34,700 --> 00:09:38,900 This idea, architect archetypes and objects in my analysis and 168 00:09:38,900 --> 00:09:42,100 how to write. Because I always place people 169 00:09:42,100 --> 00:09:43,800 and objects at the center of my writing. 170 00:09:44,100 --> 00:09:47,500 So what might some other archetypes and objects be. 171 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,600 So, I really kind of cast this cosmology of archetypes. 172 00:09:52,900 --> 00:09:56,400 Some are pulled from Campbell's ideas, but most are from my own 173 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,900 experience as a writer, think about the difference between, 174 00:09:59,900 --> 00:10:04,200 for example, the writer and the narrator And our actual selves. 175 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,400 Like, those are usually quite different and then there's the 176 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:11,500 audience intended for a project, the actual audience plus some of 177 00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:14,300 the really scary stuff about writing such as the blank page. 178 00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:21,000 Then there are other archetypes, that came up One is on the 179 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,100 Penguin and I'm going to I'm going to read you a little piece 180 00:10:24,100 --> 00:10:28,400 of the book about penguins. So I was talking to my wife 181 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,600 about this book and showed her this cosmology of archetype said 182 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,600 to be feature, she insisted that there be a penguin in there and 183 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,100 a scarf, but they're really great ideas. 184 00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:41,900 Especially the penguins penguins are small off, an ungainly 185 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,900 incredibly aloof, and often unless you're a polar bear in 186 00:10:44,900 --> 00:10:47,400 looking for a midday snack, unnecessary. 187 00:10:48,100 --> 00:10:50,900 Penguins are obsessively detail-oriented in all the wrong 188 00:10:50,900 --> 00:10:53,100 ways. They talk about themselves too 189 00:10:53,100 --> 00:10:55,000 much. They're fashionable to a fault. 190 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,700 Especially when they were trendy scarves to try and compensate 191 00:10:57,700 --> 00:11:00,300 for their stature. They constantly try to 192 00:11:00,300 --> 00:11:02,700 compensate for their stature, which is something they cannot 193 00:11:02,700 --> 00:11:05,700 fix. It is best to avoid penguins in 194 00:11:05,700 --> 00:11:10,600 your writing, okay? So I obviously wasn't writing 195 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,000 about actual Penguins. There, it was encouraging 196 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,800 writers to not be to self-important and it was just 197 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,500 you know, it's kind of fun too. Come up with all, you know, who 198 00:11:20,500 --> 00:11:23,700 are these different characters? That might inform the Journey of 199 00:11:23,700 --> 00:11:27,400 writing something. So, in this way, I was able to 200 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,500 create a whole little universe that might fill up a book in a 201 00:11:30,500 --> 00:11:34,000 way that is Meaningful. So, here we see some of the 202 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,700 archetypes and I'd like to read you another passage from the 203 00:11:37,700 --> 00:11:40,300 book about the archetype of the plumber. 204 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,100 So here we go. I suggest that you put the 205 00:11:45,100 --> 00:11:49,000 notion of being a famous writer or artist designer photographer. 206 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,700 Architect or philosopher away famous stupid. 207 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,900 It is navel-gazing and dumb. And if you obtained it, you'd be 208 00:11:55,900 --> 00:11:58,500 hunted by Paparazzi and your life would turn into something 209 00:11:58,500 --> 00:12:02,700 gated and terrible. Same is elusive, narcissistic 210 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:07,800 idiotic and most of all relative being quote, unquote, famous in 211 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,100 most creative Fields, has all the accolades pomp, circumstance 212 00:12:11,100 --> 00:12:14,100 and importance. Remunerative value of being a 213 00:12:14,100 --> 00:12:17,100 well-regarded plumber. Instant emptily the most noble 214 00:12:17,100 --> 00:12:19,800 of all the occasions, just be a plumber. 215 00:12:20,100 --> 00:12:22,500 Do your work with Karen Craft crafts? 216 00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:26,400 May be dead in theory, but craft is not when you feel 217 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,700 self-important, remember that in reality, no one else really 218 00:12:29,700 --> 00:12:33,800 cares. So reading all this stuff and I 219 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,500 was listening to a lot of music which is something I do pretty 220 00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:38,800 obsessively. And I kept coming across all 221 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,400 these great little quotes that I might use for the book. 222 00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:45,600 So, here's a quote, from a song that I really like that. 223 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,200 I used right after the intro. So it goes, quote, come on, 224 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,600 sweet girl. Let's find you a notion that 225 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,700 goes with your eyes, unquote. So that's from the singer Neko 226 00:12:56,700 --> 00:12:59,500 Case. So use this quote, right up 227 00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:01,900 through the intro, because I was trying to ease folks into the 228 00:13:01,900 --> 00:13:06,900 idea that they can write and to try to dispel reader self-doubt 229 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,100 and quotes are really good for things like that. 230 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,600 So that kind of turned into a little strategy. 231 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,900 I was As I was writing, I was like, maybe, you know, basically 232 00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:17,200 for the beginning of each chapter include a little quote, 233 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,200 from a song that I really love, that's relevant to the content 234 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:25,300 of that chapter. It was around this time that I 235 00:13:25,300 --> 00:13:28,700 started making these fake information Graphics of all the 236 00:13:28,700 --> 00:13:32,200 terrible things that we associate with the pandemic. 237 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,100 So like here this is, I put together this like goofy 238 00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:37,700 drawing. I just like drew it with 239 00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:40,300 Sharpie, you know. It's called the ecosystem of the 240 00:13:40,300 --> 00:13:45,500 lockdown, just showing the relationship between microbes 241 00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:48,500 and physical contact, and horniness, and the cloud, and 242 00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:52,900 the Resurgence of ex-partners and Amazon and aging parents and 243 00:13:52,908 --> 00:13:55,300 lost. It's an alcohol and dead pets 244 00:13:55,300 --> 00:13:59,500 and screen time, and I was just goofing around, just like, I 245 00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:01,700 don't know. Just drawing things that 246 00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:05,100 basically look like fake information graphics and I 247 00:14:05,108 --> 00:14:07,400 thought, you know, like I was doing this and I was like, oh 248 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,400 what have I took some of these ideas that I'm writing about 249 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:14,000 kind of do the same thing. What happens if I like place 250 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,300 them, you know, in juxtaposition with each other. 251 00:14:18,100 --> 00:14:20,000 So that's what I want up doing, you know? 252 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,000 I thought about these different relationships between these, you 253 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,500 know, argh. Types and metaphorical symbols, 254 00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:29,500 and how they might take form in terms of spatial relationships. 255 00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:33,600 So, here are like, I was thinking about margins and both 256 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:38,000 a literal and metaphorical way. We all need space in our design 257 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,100 work, or art work writing, and in our lives. 258 00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:45,800 So, I made a goofy graphic about how margins bring elements 259 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,900 together as much as keep them apart. 260 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:53,800 Any kind of got crazy like this like this was like about telling 261 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:58,500 the story the wrong way of like what happens if you really make 262 00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:02,200 a narrative nonlinear. So I came up with this idea of 263 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,700 using like portals, which might allow a reader to hop from one 264 00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:09,400 section of this book idea to another, which is kind of a cool 265 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,400 hypertextual idea, but it doesn't work at all in a book 266 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,300 and I was just kind of riffing and doing like a phone hybrid of 267 00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:18,100 writing and drawing and mapping and through this process. 268 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,600 Yes, I was actually able to get my head around the idea as a lot 269 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,800 more and create a dorky little ecosystem of how the ideas work 270 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,900 together. It was helpful too. 271 00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:32,600 Because like, through thinking, about all these relationships, I 272 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,300 was able to think about and write down the important stuff 273 00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:40,400 that's not about archetypes or metaphors or objects and how one 274 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,100 might structure a piece of meaningful writing using content 275 00:15:44,100 --> 00:15:48,200 style and form the importance of practice, the points of editing 276 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,700 and then multiple forms of conclusions. 277 00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:54,500 So really, you know, just like the idea of like sifting through 278 00:15:54,500 --> 00:16:00,100 these ideas in ways that were Both Visual and textual was, it 279 00:16:00,100 --> 00:16:05,700 was really, really useful. I also started explaining how 280 00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:09,600 one might retroactively apply a structure to a body of writing. 281 00:16:10,300 --> 00:16:14,300 This is something that I do as a master's degree thesis advisor 282 00:16:14,300 --> 00:16:17,300 at various schools and the base of this is this thing that I 283 00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:21,600 called a Triad. The Triad is basically a 284 00:16:21,608 --> 00:16:25,600 triangular structure? That is the basis for most Visa 285 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,200 Theses. In postgraduate settings. 286 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,700 Basically, there are three points, you cannot avoid one, is 287 00:16:31,700 --> 00:16:36,100 you You one is what you do AKA your vocation or the sector of 288 00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:38,000 cultural production that you work in. 289 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,100 And then the other part is what you're interested in. 290 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:47,400 And I pulled this idea out of, you know, my thesis is advising 291 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,200 but also out of workshops that I do at other schools. 292 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,400 And at conventions, I do these workshops called Doof Doof. 293 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,600 So the term Doof Doof, if you're unfamiliar is the Australian 294 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:05,700 word for techno music because do To this Workshop, has nothing to 295 00:17:05,700 --> 00:17:08,200 do with techno music. I just love the sound of that 296 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:09,900 term Doof Doof, and it's a new word. 297 00:17:09,900 --> 00:17:11,800 It's a neologism, it's a made-up term. 298 00:17:12,700 --> 00:17:15,400 These workshops are largely about overcoming participants 299 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,599 fear of writing through embracing visual language and 300 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:22,700 examining discursive structure in the workshops we assess. 301 00:17:22,700 --> 00:17:25,700 Structural approaches to writing like that Triad. 302 00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:28,900 Also, how to flavor writing and how to enhance writing by 303 00:17:28,900 --> 00:17:31,900 including one's personal perspective and you know, folks 304 00:17:31,900 --> 00:17:34,600 it Participate in these workshops are able to assess 305 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,500 their own vulnerabilities, their goals, as designers and writers. 306 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,500 And really learn how to be designers who lightcraft 307 00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:42,800 appealing writing during the workshops. 308 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,800 We employed, we explore Counterpoint authenticity 309 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,600 ornament Kitsch people's interests and influences plus a 310 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,900 ton more. All using intellectual emotional 311 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:54,900 rational dead serious and comedic approaches to writing as 312 00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:57,300 well. So, in this book, I'm pulling a 313 00:17:57,300 --> 00:17:59,900 lot of my ideas about how to come to structure from these 314 00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:03,600 workshops that I've now done. Like Glue a couple hundred 315 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,800 people which is really great and that's all in the book as well. 316 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,100 So I'm doing all this stuff thinking about it, the pen down, 317 00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:16,100 it keeps happening. And my wife is working at this 318 00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:18,700 shop and the boss starts being a jerk. 319 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:21,700 And about, you know, making people come to work in person 320 00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:26,300 and just very uncool. So I was like, why don't you 321 00:18:26,300 --> 00:18:28,100 quit? And she's like, it sounds good. 322 00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:31,300 So she quit her job. So she was, you know, around the 323 00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:34,600 house, a lot of the time which is great, was super happy for 324 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,500 her but I need a lot of space to write. 325 00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:40,700 Can't be around other people. I'm not one of those people that 326 00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:44,100 can write in Starbucks or something, and I think that's 327 00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:46,600 one thing that's really important is to write where you 328 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,400 feel comfortable. So, what I did is, I took the 329 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,400 proverbial show on the road. I like to write outside, 330 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,200 especially in parks in Tokyo. Tokyo is one of the safest 331 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,400 cities in the world and you can just basically Sprout out a 332 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,800 sheet with my laptop and a jug of iced coffee and bang out a 333 00:19:02,808 --> 00:19:07,000 couple of thousand words a day. And the thing is, you know, 334 00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:10,000 that's like the importance of practice. 335 00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:13,700 Like after a couple weeks of doing this incessantly I 336 00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:16,700 realized that I was writing a book, not a Zine. 337 00:19:17,700 --> 00:19:21,000 And I was having a lot of fun working on it and it was just 338 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:22,800 kind of writing itself at this point. 339 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,700 So I started thinking about like, huh, how am I going to 340 00:19:25,700 --> 00:19:28,400 publish it? You know, I have my own small 341 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,700 imprint called word shape, which is also a type Foundry but I 342 00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:35,300 usually only sell like between 500 to 1000 copies of any Go 343 00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:38,200 title. I'd done a book with another 344 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,100 publisher or slanted the year before, where I made a bit of 345 00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:43,300 money and the book got a fair amount of distribution. 346 00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:45,100 So it's like, all right, that's cool. 347 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,200 But like maybe I should approach another publisher just kind of 348 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,900 like spread the love around a little bit. 349 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:57,400 So the Dutch publishing imprint on the matzah pay publishes this 350 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,400 journal modes of criticism, which is a journal that I've 351 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,300 been writing for regularly over the years. 352 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,300 And I don't know if they seem to have Have this same kind of, 353 00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:09,000 very independent, minded approach to publishing. 354 00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:13,700 So I wrote to them and ask them, ask them if they were interested 355 00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:17,100 in potentially publishing this thing and I sent them the draft 356 00:20:17,100 --> 00:20:20,600 manuscript, and because some to my surprise, they were 357 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,900 interested. So I was like, oh, I gotta get 358 00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:25,900 jamming on this. So, I asked my friend and 359 00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:29,200 colleague at Temple University, Japan, Toto, Nettleton. 360 00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:32,900 One of the preeminent art critics in Asia, if he'd be 361 00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:37,000 interested in editing the book. Was and he did and I was really, 362 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,900 really, really rad. So so this speaks to editors 363 00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:44,000 like you usually, if you're writing a thing you need a 364 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,300 Content editor and a copy editor editor, the content editor 365 00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:51,100 helps, you sort out your ideas in written form and the copy 366 00:20:51,100 --> 00:20:54,500 editor helps kind of dial in the details grammar and spelling and 367 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:57,700 syntax. Sometimes though you meet a 368 00:20:57,708 --> 00:21:02,600 magical unicorn like Toto who can do both simultaneously so 369 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,700 that was really great. So this is a Thing, like I was 370 00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:07,900 talking to a publisher. I've got an editor. 371 00:21:07,900 --> 00:21:11,000 So I just jammed on jammed on the thing and I got it done. 372 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,700 And I sent the final draft manuscript over to Todd. 373 00:21:13,700 --> 00:21:20,400 Oh, and Taro edited it like pretty immediately, which also 374 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,400 takes some time. So I had to step back, take a 375 00:21:22,408 --> 00:21:25,100 break. And at this point like after you 376 00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:27,700 write the draft of a book, you're so emotional that you 377 00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:30,500 need to give yourself a bit of a reprieve, plus the editor needs 378 00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:33,600 time and space actually edit. So stepping back is a good 379 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,100 thing. So while that's happening, I 380 00:21:37,108 --> 00:21:38,900 started collecting imagery for the book. 381 00:21:39,300 --> 00:21:41,900 I had ideas for the chapter starts, so I put that stuff 382 00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:46,400 together and I had those the quotes from songs and I 383 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,100 collected the imagery that I definitely wanted to have in the 384 00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:51,600 book, you know, contacting artists and designers and 385 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,500 Architects and making sure that everything was like, you know, 386 00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:55,900 the correct resolution and color mode and whatnot. 387 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,900 I was largely aggregating imagery for the book which is a 388 00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:04,500 contemporary mode of image making and actually haven't seen 389 00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:08,500 One right about critically, in terms of you know design Theory 390 00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:11,400 and criticism. So I thought we would perhaps 391 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,800 take a short interlude to look at how folks use image 392 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,000 aggregation. So here we have a specimen of 393 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,400 ornaments from the tsukiji type Foundry, which is Japan's very, 394 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,700 very first commercial type Foundry. 395 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,300 This is a collection of ornaments and borders from 1898 396 00:22:28,300 --> 00:22:32,900 collected into a booklet. We know about specimens from 397 00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:34,900 type specimens. Here, we have a types mess of 398 00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:37,600 Ben from the American type, Founders and the 1920s of the 399 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,100 legendary typeface Cooper block. And there are contemporary 400 00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:43,900 designers working in this mode to like designer and educator 401 00:22:43,900 --> 00:22:47,800 Paul Elliman and designer and educator Carl Martin's. 402 00:22:49,500 --> 00:22:53,200 And American designer showing terauchi seen crap Hound, which 403 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,600 Aggregates illustrations and clip art from history and two 404 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,200 volumes of compositions, we can, which can be reused by 405 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,300 designers, but there are also models of specimens and image. 406 00:23:02,300 --> 00:23:05,200 Aggregation that are both contemporary and historical. 407 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,100 So just tattoo flash, the designs that one sees on the 408 00:23:08,108 --> 00:23:11,300 walls of tattoo shops, basically designs that one can pick off 409 00:23:11,300 --> 00:23:13,800 the wall and have pounded into one skin. 410 00:23:14,500 --> 00:23:17,900 And the fascinating thing is that people do actually do this 411 00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:22,200 and people Bodies often look like volumetric sheets of tattoo 412 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,100 flash. I think that's like really 413 00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:26,300 fascinating. So, I don't know. 414 00:23:26,308 --> 00:23:28,600 That's just like a trend in contemporary culture. 415 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:33,100 That's really like re-emerged over the past 15 years. 416 00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:37,700 I would say in terms of Art and Design and popular culture and 417 00:23:37,700 --> 00:23:39,700 meeting folks, don't think about it so much. 418 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,100 I don't write about that in the book. 419 00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:43,900 It was kind of how I was thinking about collecting images 420 00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:47,400 for the book and that's how the images that are in the book, 421 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,900 wound up in there. So, the edits came back and they 422 00:23:50,908 --> 00:23:54,200 were solid and jump back in and I pour it over everything and I 423 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,100 edited it some more. And then I started designing it 424 00:23:57,300 --> 00:23:59,600 which always involves a bit more editing. 425 00:23:59,900 --> 00:24:04,000 So I still messed up some stuff, but as we all should know and 426 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,500 not worry about so much, nothing is ever perfect? 427 00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:12,500 Because humans are not perfect humans, don't conform to 428 00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:15,500 implications of perfection. So encourage you not to worry 429 00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:18,000 about mistakes so much because we all make them. 430 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,400 I'm A Believer and seeing people's real selves, not their 431 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,700 quote unquote best selves and I hope other folks want the same 432 00:24:24,700 --> 00:24:28,100 with me. So a few months later, the book 433 00:24:28,100 --> 00:24:32,000 came out, I got global distribution but the rollout was 434 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,600 pretty slow because of the pandemic and that's okay. 435 00:24:34,700 --> 00:24:37,000 You know it's been gaining momentum steadily which makes me 436 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,000 really happy in regard to imperfection you know like with 437 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,200 this book I wrote some stuff that's maybe way too personal in 438 00:24:43,208 --> 00:24:44,300 there. Maybe I shouldn't have done that 439 00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:48,600 but that's alright it's real or just as real as lies that are in 440 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,800 there but that's what writing is, its attenuated reality so 441 00:24:53,300 --> 00:24:58,200 that my friends was a Patient. Thank you so much for that 442 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:03,700 presentation in that moment of realizing that this wasn't a 443 00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:08,800 Zine. This is in fact a book How how 444 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,500 did you know that or like do you start knowing like what the 445 00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:15,600 final form of something will be? Or do you just kind of let it 446 00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:19,100 reveal itself to you with your other projects Beyond this book? 447 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:25,700 It's kind of like um I don't outline per se, I like ex post 448 00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:28,400 facto outline. So it's like basically I'll, you 449 00:25:28,408 --> 00:25:35,000 know, make a document in pages and I'll just start coming down 450 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,100 all the ideas and all right, little bits of stuff. 451 00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:41,300 And then I just certain point, I'll just kind of review and 452 00:25:41,300 --> 00:25:43,500 retroactively outline stuff in the sea. 453 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,100 You know, how much stuff I had. And I was like, whoa, there's 454 00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:50,300 like way too much stuff here and like I felt strongly about With 455 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,200 the content. So I think that's the whole 456 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,100 thing. Like, you know, the opposite of 457 00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:58,100 less is more like more is more. And when you realize that you 458 00:25:58,100 --> 00:26:01,200 just have a lot. That's, that's the moment. 459 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:06,800 Yeah, so you mentioned like Pages, you said, and you also 460 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,400 writing out doors. Can you tell us about the kind 461 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,700 of physical tools and stuff that you use? 462 00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:15,800 Like, are you a laptop writer or you like a sort of notebook, 463 00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:19,500 kind of writer or what are the sort of ways that you organize 464 00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:21,800 your You're writing as it's coming together. 465 00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:28,100 So, a couple different tools, so basically, you know, a phone 466 00:26:28,300 --> 00:26:31,500 with dictation. So, I basically, you know, the 467 00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:34,600 pages out syncs, across, laptop and phone. 468 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,200 So I do a lot of dictation for basic ideas because, of course, 469 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,300 Siri garbles everything. But at least you can like, you 470 00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:46,000 know, you can make a first pass on some stuff and then bounce 471 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:52,400 that to the laptop, you know. Like like usually, yeah, I'm not 472 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,000 a person who Who writes by hand for say, I mean, I'll make notes 473 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,700 in a notebook. That's one thing I encourage 474 00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:02,500 folks to do, like, I have, literally in my back pocket, a 475 00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:05,900 small notebook. If you keep a notebook on you at 476 00:27:05,900 --> 00:27:07,700 all times when you're not naked, it's great. 477 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:13,200 So you always have a tool and then like yeah, I mean like just 478 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,600 use the tool that's appropriate for you. 479 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:20,100 I mean for me, you know it's a laptop Right now, you know, 480 00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:22,100 we're going into spring and Tokyo so I'm very excited. 481 00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:23,900 So I'm able to go back outside and right? 482 00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:29,300 So in terms of tools, a bicycle to get to a park and a hopefully 483 00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:33,700 charged laptop and the jug of coffee and a plastic sheet, and 484 00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:37,200 we're good to go snow awesome, that sounds great. 485 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,400 So pulling out a few other things from the book, you are in 486 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,900 Japan. And you've mentioned this aspect 487 00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:48,500 of Japanese culture, this notion of ma of experience of time and 488 00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:50,000 space. What you see here. 489 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,100 Integral to one another as they collapse within structures. 490 00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:57,800 Can you tell us about how MA like figures into your writing 491 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,000 practice or your consumption of how you structure your writing? 492 00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:10,200 Mmm, I'm not sure I do because it's just, like, I mean, 493 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:17,200 experiencing time and space is just kind of There are kind of 494 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,300 other aspects of Japanese culture, which I think are more 495 00:28:21,300 --> 00:28:23,800 integral, especially writing about design. 496 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,500 Like there's a term mono. No owari. 497 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,800 Which means basically an empathy for things or objects. 498 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,500 So that's something that feels pretty integral and like, my is 499 00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:37,500 kind of a part of that. So Mom has the experience of 500 00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:41,900 time and space but the thing is like it's integral to feeling 501 00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:45,300 and empathy for objects because You have to spend time with 502 00:28:45,300 --> 00:28:47,400 something to love it. Usually, right. 503 00:28:47,700 --> 00:28:52,300 So yeah I think yeah that's probably the closest answer 504 00:28:52,300 --> 00:28:56,100 record time too. Well that's really helpful and 505 00:28:56,100 --> 00:28:58,600 you've also mentioned in your book that you're sort of anti 506 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,300 irony. Can you tell us a little bit 507 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:06,300 about that position that like that position actually largely 508 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,200 comes from Natalia alien through personal conversation and she 509 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,000 wrote this really excellent essay called The Man in the The 510 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:19,400 irony mask just it's a conversation a years. 511 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,600 I've been teaching a VCF a for a decade now and ever since I 512 00:29:22,608 --> 00:29:28,300 first met Natalia, we've talked about how, you know, it's really 513 00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:35,100 important to avoid irony in writing because irony we have 514 00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:39,000 different perspectives on it. My perspective is that irony 515 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,400 doesn't translate well in writing because the thing is 516 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:43,700 like, it's something that is often. 517 00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:46,500 Credibly personal and people can't read it. 518 00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:51,100 A lot of the time in terms of the intended tone, it's not a 519 00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:54,500 universal feeling and it's also just really cynical. 520 00:29:54,900 --> 00:29:58,200 I mean, it's pervasive culturally through, you know, 521 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,400 and socially, you know, but I don't know it's like If you 522 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,600 think about all the folks that read English in the world, most 523 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,400 of them are non-native readers and speakers. 524 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:15,100 So the thing is like in terms of cultural context, irony is not 525 00:30:15,100 --> 00:30:18,400 going to be read properly, it doesn't translate well and also 526 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,100 it's just cynical like why not be hopeful? 527 00:30:21,700 --> 00:30:26,200 So yeah, yeah, yeah I think that also reminds me of what you were 528 00:30:26,300 --> 00:30:29,600 writing about in your book, how in your teaching practice, 529 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,800 you're teaching these Blended classrooms or what you have, 530 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,900 Like native speakers of Japanese and English speakers in the same 531 00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:39,700 classroom. And so the way that you choose 532 00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:42,600 your language not necessarily to be neutral, but to kind of be a 533 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,700 bridge, both in your classroom, and in your writing, could you 534 00:30:45,700 --> 00:30:48,900 tell us about how you find that register? 535 00:30:50,700 --> 00:30:56,500 So like you know, teaching and Tokyo there are a lot of folks 536 00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:59,100 who are native English speakers, a lot of folks who are native 537 00:30:59,100 --> 00:31:02,900 Japanese speakers and a lot of folks who are native other 538 00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:06,100 language speakers speakers of other languages natively. 539 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,900 And the thing is like, we're in this weird school in Japan, 540 00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:16,600 where the curriculum is in English yet, like Japan is on a 541 00:31:16,608 --> 00:31:21,100 place where English is very prevalent, so, It's really 542 00:31:21,100 --> 00:31:24,900 important. That students learn Japanese 543 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,000 terminology for design. So, so whole thing is just kind 544 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,500 of, like, mixing it up, you know, like, you know, what is 545 00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:34,400 the word for like? I don't know, like so the word 546 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:39,700 for Crop Marks in Japanese is tumble, so which is like the 547 00:31:39,700 --> 00:31:42,700 same sound as dragonfly and like, I don't know, just like 548 00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:45,700 playing without yeah, with that stuff like in terms of like 549 00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:49,300 homonyms, even though, you know, the characters are different for 550 00:31:49,300 --> 00:31:51,900 those terms. Like, but like homonyms can be 551 00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:55,300 really fun and it's just like being playful with language and 552 00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:57,900 that's something we like try to do a lot in classroom. 553 00:31:57,900 --> 00:32:00,500 Yeah. I feel like what you were saying 554 00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:02,300 there with being playful with language. 555 00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:08,300 Also like dfangs some of the scariness of writing I think for 556 00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:10,900 for myself, just speaking for myself but I'm sure with other 557 00:32:10,900 --> 00:32:12,500 designers and creative people as well. 558 00:32:12,500 --> 00:32:15,500 Like there's like we often put writing on such a pedestal 559 00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:18,300 that's that's such a scary thing and like no one approached it, 560 00:32:18,300 --> 00:32:21,200 but the way that you talk about the play, Honest with language 561 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,800 it feel like is a way to kind of defang that yeah it can be super 562 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,700 fun. Like, have you ever heard of the 563 00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:30,300 writer and teacher an artist Trini Dalton? 564 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,600 No, I haven't. So she's like, she's based in 565 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,900 Southern California. She wrote this really great book 566 00:32:36,900 --> 00:32:40,500 of baby Geisha and I was like reading it and like there's a 567 00:32:40,508 --> 00:32:43,100 section of the book that like didn't it, like kind of didn't 568 00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:46,100 make any sense like they were these really nonsensical kind of 569 00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:49,500 anti stories and like there were like five or six stories and 570 00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:51,500 then like I got to the end of that second. 571 00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:52,800 I was like what the hell was that? 572 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,600 And then training also teaches writing then she described it. 573 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,500 This was basically a project that she works on the students, 574 00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:04,800 it's called word salad Basically make a list of 10 words that 575 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,400 people like and then you try to write a story or an anti story 576 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,400 together and this like really fun. 577 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:15,400 That's something that we do like a teach design history. 578 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,600 I don't use it in that class but like in like regular graphic 579 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:23,400 design classes but also I teach like general education classes 580 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,400 that are focused on the Arts and like, that's like a fun thing to 581 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,600 get folks writing. It's just like, we all make a 582 00:33:28,608 --> 00:33:31,400 list of, you know, if there are 12 people in the class, 12 583 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,700 words, And then writing something together that makes 584 00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:37,500 writing feel less scary. It's a great place to start, 585 00:33:37,500 --> 00:33:39,500 that's great. Thanks for that specific 586 00:33:39,500 --> 00:33:42,200 example. I think the other final thing 587 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:43,700 that I wanted to tease out from her book. 588 00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:47,200 Is this passage where you talk about I'll quote you writing is 589 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,400 kind of like that you are performing yourself, especially 590 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,800 when you're writing about your profession outside of history or 591 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,700 criticism. And I that really resonated with 592 00:33:56,700 --> 00:34:00,000 me of like again thinking about ways to defang writing is 593 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,100 something kind of scary and intimidating of light. it's I 594 00:34:03,100 --> 00:34:06,300 mean, I'm performing now in a way, writing this interview but 595 00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:12,000 that the writer me, if I'm doing this is like, In some ways it's 596 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,900 an extension of my real self and my professional suppan by like 597 00:34:15,900 --> 00:34:19,300 making it like a character in a way, I didn't like my writers 598 00:34:19,300 --> 00:34:23,100 self as a performance in some ways, it makes it less scary for 599 00:34:23,100 --> 00:34:28,699 me, I don't know. Yeah, yeah like I think like the 600 00:34:28,699 --> 00:34:34,300 musician Nick Cave like he's a person like in his real life he 601 00:34:34,300 --> 00:34:39,600 doesn't believe in God, or the devil, but in his writing, you 602 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,400 know, this Very Old Testament. God, exists. 603 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,199 And there are many, many devils and demons. 604 00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:50,500 And, you know, things both literally and metaphorically, 605 00:34:50,500 --> 00:34:53,400 and I think that's like, one of the really fun things about 606 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,700 writing, you know, again, not just casting a cosmology of 607 00:34:57,700 --> 00:35:01,400 archetypes, but a cosmology of characters and how you might 608 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:09,000 shift yourself in that, like, Yeah, just like, you know, you 609 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,800 can when you're writing you can say things that you would never 610 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,900 say in real life and you can do things that you would never do 611 00:35:14,900 --> 00:35:18,800 per se and like, that's really fun. 612 00:35:19,300 --> 00:35:22,500 So yeah, there's the Fantastical parts of writing. 613 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:23,700 That's awesome. Yeah. 614 00:35:23,700 --> 00:35:28,000 I feel like your book like reading your book, it feels like 615 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,100 we're just kind of hanging out, you know, we've only talked 616 00:35:31,300 --> 00:35:34,900 online or the way that it's written for the folks in the 617 00:35:34,900 --> 00:35:36,400 audience, who haven't checked it out yet. 618 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,200 It feels like you're hanging out with Ian, like, in his studio, 619 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,300 right? He's like quoting new cave or 620 00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:45,600 playing you Snippets of songs recording different authors, 621 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,800 like it has that quality to it and while it's sort of 622 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,400 philosophical, it doesn't, it's not like intimidating or to woo 623 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,200 in that sort of way. It just feels like, oh, this is 624 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,000 a creative person, sharing a little bit about his process and 625 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:05,900 like, inspires me to want to write more Thank you. 626 00:36:05,900 --> 00:36:07,600 Thank you. Ian, looks like we don't have 627 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,100 any audience questions today, so I'll just turn it back to you 628 00:36:10,100 --> 00:36:12,700 and I see. Do you have any final thoughts 629 00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:14,800 for our audience tonight? And then we'll wrap it up from 630 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,900 there not really, I don't know. I mean like I just you know if 631 00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:22,100 folks are interested in writing I just encourage them to try. 632 00:36:22,100 --> 00:36:26,500 I think that's a big thing. I think culturally folks are 633 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:32,000 often afraid of it. Especially Especially designers 634 00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:36,400 because designers have this issue. 635 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,300 It's a form of schizophrenia. Basically designers tend to so 636 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,800 graphic design is content container synthesis. 637 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,200 And a lot of designers are afraid of making the actual 638 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,500 content because the usually hired to create the container 639 00:36:53,500 --> 00:36:57,000 and the sent to synthesize things but to actually kind of 640 00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,000 get in there and make their own stuff. 641 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,300 Is something that a lot of folks are afraid. 642 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,300 Because their bosses, haven't allowed them to do it and then 643 00:37:04,300 --> 00:37:06,900 if your boss doesn't let you do it, then you yourself start to 644 00:37:06,900 --> 00:37:08,700 create mental and emotional blocks. 645 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,500 And yeah, I just, you know, I encourage folks to make their 646 00:37:12,500 --> 00:37:16,200 own stuff. And I think, you know, it's a 647 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,400 beautiful thing right now because there are more people 648 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,200 writing about design than ever before. 649 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,400 And yeah, just encourage folks to do it as well. 650 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,000 And hopefully do it in a way that is not boring because must 651 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,800 design writing is really bored. That's great advice, go out and 652 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,800 make stuff right stuff. Don't be boring and line them 653 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,200 joining us from Tokyo Japan, author of The impossibility of 654 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:40,800 Silence. I've got it on my iPad that you 655 00:37:40,808 --> 00:37:42,900 should get the physical book there. 656 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,300 Thanks everybody for tuning in. We'll post a link to Ians book, 657 00:37:46,300 --> 00:37:48,700 in the chat, and in the show notes, you can check out this 658 00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:52,600 recording out, AIG a design wherever you get podcasts or 659 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,200 videos all of the platforms and I believe Sean. 660 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,600 Hello, again. We'll see you next week for our 661 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,000 next live stream, and check out Gee, that'll work to stay in 662 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,100 touch. All right, have a good evening 663 00:38:04,100 --> 00:38:06,400 or day, everyone. Bye. 664 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:08,400 Thank you.